WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.416 --> 00:00:03.037 How many brands out there are really thinking, 2 00:00:03.097 --> 00:00:03.217 OK, 3 00:00:03.357 --> 00:00:05.318 what do we actually want to get out of this community? 4 00:00:05.438 --> 00:00:06.599 What are our values? 5 00:00:06.759 --> 00:00:10.200 Community can be shaped very differently. 6 00:00:10.660 --> 00:00:14.442 I love to think of community as a space for two-way conversations. 7 00:00:14.622 --> 00:00:15.843 It's not just about growth. 8 00:00:16.203 --> 00:00:19.664 It's making sure everybody is having a level playing field. 9 00:00:19.804 --> 00:00:19.944 Yeah, 10 00:00:20.025 --> 00:00:20.245 I mean, 11 00:00:20.285 --> 00:00:20.545 honestly, 12 00:00:20.585 --> 00:00:22.526 I think communities are just going to get bigger and bigger. 13 00:00:22.906 --> 00:00:26.607 Trust is probably the biggest currency there is at the minute. 14 00:00:30.168 --> 00:00:31.749 This is Next Market Live, 15 00:00:31.929 --> 00:00:33.489 the podcast by Wiglot. 16 00:00:33.929 --> 00:00:37.350 We're bringing you the unfiltered stories of CEOs, 17 00:00:37.611 --> 00:00:38.231 CMOs, 18 00:00:38.411 --> 00:00:43.212 and go-to-market pros who've taken their brands beyond their home markets. 19 00:00:43.573 --> 00:00:44.233 From the first, 20 00:00:44.513 --> 00:00:45.313 where do we start, 21 00:00:45.593 --> 00:00:48.334 to major pivots and unexpected challenges, 22 00:00:48.714 --> 00:00:53.416 we explore how international growth is rarely a straight line. 23 00:00:59.404 --> 00:00:59.544 Hi, 24 00:00:59.604 --> 00:01:00.025 everybody, 25 00:01:00.205 --> 00:01:02.226 and welcome to Next Market Live, 26 00:01:02.406 --> 00:01:03.587 the podcast by Weglot. 27 00:01:04.608 --> 00:01:05.348 I'm your host, 28 00:01:05.468 --> 00:01:06.309 Elizabeth Bacconi, 29 00:01:06.769 --> 00:01:08.711 Head of Content and Brand here at Weglot. 30 00:01:09.271 --> 00:01:11.853 And today I'm joined by Areej Abu Ali, 31 00:01:12.413 --> 00:01:14.195 founder of Women in Tech SEO. 32 00:01:15.536 --> 00:01:19.879 Areej started her career as a computer engineer before moving into SEO, 33 00:01:20.779 --> 00:01:27.104 where she's led both technical and in-house teams at scale for companies including Zoopla and papier. 34 00:01:28.364 --> 00:01:29.525 In 2019, 35 00:01:29.605 --> 00:01:31.267 she founded Women in Tech SEO, 36 00:01:31.647 --> 00:01:36.812 a global community for marketers working at the intersection of marketing and technology. 37 00:01:37.894 --> 00:01:50.686 What started as a small support group has since grown into a network of over 12,000 members and 60,000 followers worldwide with a mentorship program and conferences across the UK, 38 00:01:51.107 --> 00:01:52.148 Europe and US. 39 00:01:53.076 --> 00:01:58.360 Arish is also an international speaker and recently shared her expertise in her new book, 40 00:01:58.660 --> 00:02:00.161 Community Building for Marketers. 41 00:02:01.342 --> 00:02:01.522 Okay, 42 00:02:01.622 --> 00:02:02.463 and welcome, 43 00:02:02.483 --> 00:02:02.883 Arish. 44 00:02:02.983 --> 00:02:04.844 Thanks a lot for joining us today. 45 00:02:05.505 --> 00:02:06.726 Let's get right into it. 46 00:02:07.366 --> 00:02:07.687 Awesome. 47 00:02:07.688 --> 00:02:08.327 Thanks for having me. 48 00:02:10.108 --> 00:02:13.671 So we like to start all our podcasts with a bit of an icebreaker. 49 00:02:14.131 --> 00:02:16.693 So our question for you is, 50 00:02:17.814 --> 00:02:18.614 if I had met you 51 00:02:19.015 --> 00:02:19.915 10 years ago, 52 00:02:20.416 --> 00:02:20.916 would you have... 53 00:02:21.096 --> 00:02:27.120 ever imagined you'd end up building this international community and be exactly where you are today? 54 00:02:28.901 --> 00:02:29.542 Absolutely not. 55 00:02:33.104 --> 00:02:33.224 Yeah, 56 00:02:33.225 --> 00:02:34.305 I think 10 years ago, 57 00:02:34.365 --> 00:02:36.747 I was very early in my SEO career, 58 00:02:36.847 --> 00:02:38.748 and there was a lot of like unknowns. 59 00:02:38.828 --> 00:02:39.589 So yeah, 60 00:02:39.729 --> 00:02:40.990 I'm pretty sure 61 00:02:42.551 --> 00:02:44.492 I wouldn't have imagined I'd be where I am right now. 62 00:02:45.276 --> 00:02:45.396 Yeah, 63 00:02:45.716 --> 00:02:46.877 I love your backstory. 64 00:02:47.278 --> 00:02:51.220 You started in engineering and then the first company you worked for, 65 00:02:51.701 --> 00:02:55.784 you went into SEO and they could see you looking at the source code and they were like, 66 00:02:55.804 --> 00:02:56.604 what are you doing, 67 00:02:56.704 --> 00:02:57.205 Areej? 68 00:02:57.325 --> 00:02:58.586 And then it kind of naturally, 69 00:02:59.606 --> 00:03:02.428 you led more into like the technical SEO aspect. 70 00:03:02.809 --> 00:03:08.973 Can you tell us a bit more kind of how you went from a degree in engineer to SEO? 71 00:03:09.513 --> 00:03:09.713 Yeah, 72 00:03:10.294 --> 00:03:10.714 I studied, 73 00:03:10.874 --> 00:03:11.134 I mean, 74 00:03:11.315 --> 00:03:13.116 I grew up in Egypt and... 75 00:03:13.456 --> 00:03:13.956 in Egypt, 76 00:03:13.997 --> 00:03:15.197 you tend to have two options. 77 00:03:15.238 --> 00:03:16.899 You're either going to be a doctor or an engineer. 78 00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:21.082 And I went down the engineering group because I really enjoyed math. 79 00:03:21.202 --> 00:03:24.525 And I moved to the UK to do a master's degree. 80 00:03:24.605 --> 00:03:26.166 This was back in 2012. 81 00:03:26.326 --> 00:03:27.407 So a very, 82 00:03:27.487 --> 00:03:28.528 very long time ago now. 83 00:03:29.909 --> 00:03:38.436 And my first job out of that was actually a very small agency in London who needed someone who was fluent in Arabic. 84 00:03:39.497 --> 00:03:42.880 That was one of the main reasons I got the job role because I was this 85 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:44.140 in this very weird, 86 00:03:45.181 --> 00:03:45.441 you know, 87 00:03:45.701 --> 00:03:45.821 yeah, 88 00:03:45.861 --> 00:03:46.661 I had the education, 89 00:03:46.681 --> 00:03:47.201 I had the degree, 90 00:03:47.261 --> 00:03:47.601 but then 91 00:03:48.501 --> 00:03:51.022 I didn't have any experience at that point at all. 92 00:03:52.022 --> 00:03:52.263 And so 93 00:03:52.723 --> 00:03:57.324 I literally got the role purely because of my fluency in Arabic. 94 00:03:58.464 --> 00:04:00.305 But then it was an SEO agency. 95 00:04:00.745 --> 00:04:01.545 And in the first month, 96 00:04:01.605 --> 00:04:02.065 they were like, 97 00:04:02.066 --> 00:04:02.525 you know what, 98 00:04:02.825 --> 00:04:02.985 well, 99 00:04:03.125 --> 00:04:04.886 we're going to switch you to the technical SEO team, 100 00:04:04.946 --> 00:04:07.347 because it just makes so much more sense. 101 00:04:08.147 --> 00:04:08.287 Yeah, 102 00:04:08.387 --> 00:04:11.728 they could see that was where your kind of passion and interest was. 103 00:04:12.604 --> 00:04:12.864 Um, 104 00:04:13.764 --> 00:04:14.325 so I guess, 105 00:04:14.605 --> 00:04:14.725 yeah, 106 00:04:14.865 --> 00:04:15.165 let's, 107 00:04:15.525 --> 00:04:21.747 let's go straight into in building a community and the incredible women in tech SEO community you've, 108 00:04:21.748 --> 00:04:21.867 you, 109 00:04:22.027 --> 00:04:22.207 well, 110 00:04:22.347 --> 00:04:24.208 originally single-handedly built. 111 00:04:24.688 --> 00:04:26.048 And now you're a team of, 112 00:04:26.268 --> 00:04:27.128 are you four now? 113 00:04:27.849 --> 00:04:28.349 I think, 114 00:04:28.529 --> 00:04:28.749 yeah. 115 00:04:29.329 --> 00:04:29.449 Yeah. 116 00:04:29.489 --> 00:04:30.209 I just want to say, 117 00:04:30.289 --> 00:04:30.910 obviously I, 118 00:04:31.090 --> 00:04:33.050 I'm a member of women in tech SEO. 119 00:04:33.110 --> 00:04:36.091 So it's really interesting to see even just the last couple of years, 120 00:04:36.171 --> 00:04:38.032 how quickly it's grown. 121 00:04:38.332 --> 00:04:38.572 Um, 122 00:04:38.912 --> 00:04:39.974 I know it's been taken, 123 00:04:40.074 --> 00:04:42.499 it's like a gradual growth over the last few years, 124 00:04:42.579 --> 00:04:45.384 but it does really show how across what, 125 00:04:45.705 --> 00:04:45.865 yeah, 126 00:04:45.985 --> 00:04:50.473 last 18 months it's just suddenly gone even further. 127 00:04:52.603 --> 00:04:56.544 And let's like kind of take it back to the beginnings of Women in Tech SEO. 128 00:04:56.664 --> 00:04:58.605 So you're working in technical SEO. 129 00:05:00.365 --> 00:05:02.326 What was the exact moment you realized, 130 00:05:02.526 --> 00:05:02.646 OK, 131 00:05:02.846 --> 00:05:04.106 there's a space for this? 132 00:05:05.567 --> 00:05:05.727 Yeah, 133 00:05:05.927 --> 00:05:07.127 what was missing for you? 134 00:05:08.227 --> 00:05:08.428 Yeah, 135 00:05:08.608 --> 00:05:09.168 so I mean, 136 00:05:09.448 --> 00:05:09.768 WTS, 137 00:05:09.868 --> 00:05:12.369 we're turning seven years old this year, 138 00:05:12.529 --> 00:05:12.729 which, 139 00:05:12.969 --> 00:05:13.089 yeah, 140 00:05:13.249 --> 00:05:14.209 feels like a long, 141 00:05:14.229 --> 00:05:14.769 long time ago. 142 00:05:16.350 --> 00:05:16.570 And yeah, 143 00:05:16.571 --> 00:05:18.670 I think back in 2019, 144 00:05:18.690 --> 00:05:19.931 I was agency side. 145 00:05:19.951 --> 00:05:20.071 to... 146 00:05:20.751 --> 00:05:22.612 primarily been agency side at that point. 147 00:05:23.712 --> 00:05:26.473 I was very in the technical SEO side of things, 148 00:05:26.533 --> 00:05:26.913 but then 149 00:05:27.393 --> 00:05:30.934 I attended lots of industry conferences just as an attendee, 150 00:05:31.054 --> 00:05:31.814 not as a speaker. 151 00:05:32.854 --> 00:05:34.975 And I didn't really feel a sense of belonging. 152 00:05:35.555 --> 00:05:43.717 I never felt represented on stage and I never felt like I was getting my education or information or knowledge from anyone who looked like me. 153 00:05:44.838 --> 00:05:48.019 And it felt like within the technical SEO side, 154 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:48.979 it was very, 155 00:05:49.039 --> 00:05:49.579 very male. 156 00:05:49.779 --> 00:05:50.479 dominated. 157 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:56.741 And then there was also like this exclusivity that you found in a lot of like the groups where, 158 00:05:56.941 --> 00:05:57.101 oh, 159 00:05:57.321 --> 00:05:58.381 if you want to be part of that group, 160 00:05:58.421 --> 00:06:02.402 you had to be a full-time speaker or something along those lines. 161 00:06:02.823 --> 00:06:05.583 So I really did feel like very, 162 00:06:06.784 --> 00:06:07.664 like demotivated. 163 00:06:08.124 --> 00:06:15.066 And I wasn't quite sure if I wanted to continue being a technical SEO because it was very hard to have that network around me. 164 00:06:15.926 --> 00:06:16.186 And so, 165 00:06:16.266 --> 00:06:16.406 yeah, 166 00:06:16.407 --> 00:06:17.387 it was just very, 167 00:06:17.627 --> 00:06:18.267 very random. 168 00:06:19.299 --> 00:06:20.760 May 2019, 169 00:06:21.060 --> 00:06:21.981 I just decided, 170 00:06:22.321 --> 00:06:24.062 why don't I put together a group and see, 171 00:06:24.702 --> 00:06:26.943 maybe we can meet up in London, 172 00:06:27.264 --> 00:06:28.684 we can discuss things together, 173 00:06:28.905 --> 00:06:30.545 we can share knowledge, 174 00:06:30.565 --> 00:06:31.886 we can share career advice. 175 00:06:33.187 --> 00:06:33.527 And I, 176 00:06:33.947 --> 00:06:35.088 back good old Twitter, 177 00:06:35.308 --> 00:06:36.289 back when it was around, 178 00:06:36.869 --> 00:06:40.471 I put a tweet out and within the first few days, 179 00:06:40.551 --> 00:06:42.772 I had like 100 members join. 180 00:06:43.993 --> 00:06:44.253 Wow, 181 00:06:44.493 --> 00:06:45.434 that's really impressive. 182 00:06:45.514 --> 00:06:46.875 And at this point, 183 00:06:46.915 --> 00:06:47.115 I I 184 00:06:47.315 --> 00:06:49.516 presume you didn't have much of a network yourself. 185 00:06:49.576 --> 00:06:53.917 It was just clearly you had seen a need and everybody was with you on that. 186 00:06:54.037 --> 00:06:55.998 And that's how it naturally picked up. 187 00:06:56.398 --> 00:06:56.518 Yeah. 188 00:06:56.519 --> 00:06:56.698 I mean, 189 00:06:56.738 --> 00:06:57.738 in 2019, 190 00:06:57.778 --> 00:06:58.438 I didn't have, 191 00:06:58.638 --> 00:06:59.218 I wasn't, 192 00:06:59.579 --> 00:07:03.300 that was actually when I started speaking for the first time in conferences, 193 00:07:03.660 --> 00:07:09.161 but I did not have a big network and I pretty much only worked in like the same company the whole time. 194 00:07:10.362 --> 00:07:10.562 Okay. 195 00:07:10.682 --> 00:07:13.743 And am I right in thinking that it first started on Facebook? 196 00:07:13.783 --> 00:07:14.683 That's where you kind of... 197 00:07:15.063 --> 00:07:16.924 You went from this tweet and then you're like, 198 00:07:16.925 --> 00:07:16.984 OK, 199 00:07:16.985 --> 00:07:18.444 let's let's put a group together. 200 00:07:20.044 --> 00:07:20.165 Yeah. 201 00:07:20.305 --> 00:07:22.705 So I initially started a meetup group. 202 00:07:22.965 --> 00:07:23.485 That was the very, 203 00:07:23.526 --> 00:07:29.387 very first thing I did with just an idea of we can do monthly meets in London. 204 00:07:29.807 --> 00:07:31.048 But then right away on Twitter, 205 00:07:31.188 --> 00:07:35.069 a lot of the folks who replied were not based in London or not even based in the UK. 206 00:07:35.609 --> 00:07:38.050 I got a lot of people replying from like different parts of the world. 207 00:07:38.330 --> 00:07:38.730 So I was like, 208 00:07:38.750 --> 00:07:38.870 OK, 209 00:07:39.130 --> 00:07:39.330 well, 210 00:07:39.490 --> 00:07:42.071 maybe it would make more sense to set up a Facebook group. 211 00:07:42.451 --> 00:07:45.233 So I set up a closed Facebook group where we, 212 00:07:45.554 --> 00:07:45.674 yeah, 213 00:07:45.734 --> 00:07:46.875 we had a lot of people joined. 214 00:07:47.335 --> 00:07:51.118 And the first few months it was primarily on Meetup and Facebook group. 215 00:07:51.619 --> 00:07:52.059 And then 216 00:07:52.440 --> 00:07:54.461 I started the Slack group, 217 00:07:54.561 --> 00:07:57.204 which is the one that we have till this day. 218 00:07:58.325 --> 00:07:58.625 Yeah. 219 00:07:58.985 --> 00:08:00.547 How many members do you have now? 220 00:08:00.627 --> 00:08:03.529 There's a little over 12,000 now. 221 00:08:03.530 --> 00:08:04.310 That's incredible. 222 00:08:04.990 --> 00:08:08.834 That's really interesting how you said instantly from day one, 223 00:08:09.074 --> 00:08:10.275 day one tweet. 224 00:08:10.495 --> 00:08:14.999 you already saw the international interest for your community. 225 00:08:15.740 --> 00:08:18.662 You started with the concept of really meeting in real life. 226 00:08:18.923 --> 00:08:19.703 And quite quickly, 227 00:08:19.743 --> 00:08:20.244 you could see, 228 00:08:20.404 --> 00:08:20.604 okay, 229 00:08:20.644 --> 00:08:23.267 there's a need for this to also be online. 230 00:08:25.288 --> 00:08:25.408 So, 231 00:08:25.769 --> 00:08:25.909 yeah, 232 00:08:26.570 --> 00:08:28.091 if you were to start again, 233 00:08:29.312 --> 00:08:31.734 where would you find those first 20 members? 234 00:08:31.774 --> 00:08:32.935 Would you do anything differently? 235 00:08:32.975 --> 00:08:33.175 I mean, 236 00:08:33.195 --> 00:08:36.839 it seems like you kind of had natural success from the off. 237 00:08:37.947 --> 00:08:38.127 Yeah, 238 00:08:38.267 --> 00:08:39.928 I think a lot of people now when they ask me, 239 00:08:39.968 --> 00:08:40.228 you know, 240 00:08:40.248 --> 00:08:41.709 I want to start a brand new community. 241 00:08:41.990 --> 00:08:43.891 What do I do in the first instance? 242 00:08:44.231 --> 00:08:46.792 My advice tends to be connect to people, 243 00:08:46.812 --> 00:08:47.093 you know, 244 00:08:47.173 --> 00:08:52.396 already who would be interested in joining forces and get a lot of feedback. 245 00:08:53.036 --> 00:08:53.276 You know, 246 00:08:53.356 --> 00:08:54.217 what would you like to see? 247 00:08:54.397 --> 00:08:55.498 How would you like to grow this? 248 00:08:55.558 --> 00:08:57.039 What initiatives do you want to take place? 249 00:08:57.879 --> 00:09:00.581 But I didn't really have that network at that point. 250 00:09:01.721 --> 00:09:02.142 And yeah, 251 00:09:02.182 --> 00:09:04.143 I think it was just being. 252 00:09:04.775 --> 00:09:07.977 very honest and forward in my tweet around how, 253 00:09:08.377 --> 00:09:08.637 you know, 254 00:09:08.657 --> 00:09:09.177 it's taken me, 255 00:09:09.957 --> 00:09:13.339 I don't have that sense of belonging and I want to create this network for, 256 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:19.402 and I have a feeling that others may feel similar that had a lot of people interested and enjoying. 257 00:09:20.702 --> 00:09:20.842 Yeah. 258 00:09:21.243 --> 00:09:25.805 I think one thing we can really get out of that is that just like honesty and really, 259 00:09:26.385 --> 00:09:26.625 you know, 260 00:09:26.665 --> 00:09:28.066 you built this community, 261 00:09:28.146 --> 00:09:29.606 not from a business side, 262 00:09:29.666 --> 00:09:30.407 from really... 263 00:09:30.767 --> 00:09:31.007 you know, 264 00:09:31.187 --> 00:09:31.307 I, 265 00:09:31.467 --> 00:09:32.448 I want to make this, 266 00:09:32.768 --> 00:09:33.489 build a community, 267 00:09:33.589 --> 00:09:34.910 build connections. 268 00:09:35.090 --> 00:09:35.390 Um, 269 00:09:35.911 --> 00:09:36.771 it's a genuine, 270 00:09:37.972 --> 00:09:40.594 a genuine like desire from your side, 271 00:09:40.654 --> 00:09:41.174 which I, 272 00:09:41.514 --> 00:09:42.475 I wonder if, 273 00:09:42.795 --> 00:09:43.095 um, 274 00:09:44.076 --> 00:09:51.961 businesses get this wrong is that they think there's a community that's needed and it doesn't grow because there's just not the following. 275 00:09:52.001 --> 00:09:54.003 And it's a maybe bit disingenuous. 276 00:09:54.243 --> 00:09:54.483 Um, 277 00:09:54.923 --> 00:09:55.924 I don't know if you've had any, 278 00:09:56.124 --> 00:09:57.065 anybody coming or, 279 00:09:57.245 --> 00:09:58.966 or comments from your book about, 280 00:09:59.186 --> 00:09:59.467 yeah, 281 00:09:59.767 --> 00:10:00.007 how... 282 00:10:00.187 --> 00:10:06.519 do you ensure that there's a genuineness at the kind of center of community building? 283 00:10:07.242 --> 00:10:07.422 Yeah, 284 00:10:07.582 --> 00:10:07.842 I mean, 285 00:10:08.142 --> 00:10:10.303 I tend to say two things when folks ask me, 286 00:10:10.403 --> 00:10:10.523 oh, 287 00:10:10.543 --> 00:10:11.744 how come you started the community? 288 00:10:12.164 --> 00:10:12.945 Like my very, 289 00:10:13.005 --> 00:10:15.606 very honest response is it was very selfish reasons. 290 00:10:16.006 --> 00:10:17.166 And then with brands, 291 00:10:17.406 --> 00:10:17.847 because I mean, 292 00:10:17.907 --> 00:10:22.589 community marketing definitely is like this new thing that a lot of people are talking about. 293 00:10:23.589 --> 00:10:27.651 I always advise to just don't don't start your own community right away. 294 00:10:28.051 --> 00:10:34.434 There are a lot of excellent engaged communities that are already built very well and are thriving. 295 00:10:34.926 --> 00:10:37.788 The first thing to do is to tap into those communities, 296 00:10:38.228 --> 00:10:39.589 understand how they're built, 297 00:10:39.669 --> 00:10:40.449 how they're running, 298 00:10:40.829 --> 00:10:50.475 contribute as a member yourself before seeing whether it is worth starting your own or is it just a matter of partnering up with an engaged one? 299 00:10:51.495 --> 00:10:51.735 Yeah, 300 00:10:51.816 --> 00:10:52.236 that's really, 301 00:10:52.496 --> 00:10:53.276 really good advice. 302 00:10:53.316 --> 00:10:54.817 And yeah, 303 00:10:54.857 --> 00:10:56.538 certainly from Weglot's side, 304 00:10:57.078 --> 00:10:57.639 we've obviously, 305 00:10:58.339 --> 00:11:02.962 we're an active sponsor of Women in Tech SEO and something that we've really... 306 00:11:03.586 --> 00:11:21.194 loved being part of and and actually yeah your whole point of like getting feedback it's a fantastic way to to engage with an audience that you may not have ever touched before without yeah having to start from scratch yourself because you think you can you can do it easily 307 00:11:21.654 --> 00:11:30.638 one thing that's also very interesting to to discuss is how do you actually engage the members because as you said you felt like it was a natural you 308 00:11:30.758 --> 00:11:36.580 clicking of minds building this community but how do you get people to participate because it's all very well having 309 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:57.146 12 000 members in a community but if no one's actually chatting and doing this knowledge sharing um yeah how did you how did you help um stimulate that yeah so i mean like quality over quantity and like any any time of the day for sure um i always tell folks if you have 100 active members that 310 00:11:57.206 --> 00:11:57.346 is 311 00:11:58.226 --> 00:12:01.947 just it weighs so much more than having 5000 inactive members. 312 00:12:02.487 --> 00:12:03.928 So quality over quantity, 313 00:12:03.988 --> 00:12:04.428 absolutely. 314 00:12:04.808 --> 00:12:08.489 I do think some of the things that helped me in like the first few months, 315 00:12:09.769 --> 00:12:12.390 were just really connecting with folks on a one to one basis, 316 00:12:12.850 --> 00:12:15.231 understanding why did you join? 317 00:12:15.291 --> 00:12:16.471 What is it that you're looking for? 318 00:12:16.571 --> 00:12:17.791 What would you find helpful? 319 00:12:18.272 --> 00:12:19.672 A lot of these conversations, 320 00:12:19.752 --> 00:12:21.873 which I still do many of to this day, 321 00:12:22.133 --> 00:12:23.993 but probably not at the same scale as before, 322 00:12:24.033 --> 00:12:25.093 because it's very difficult, 323 00:12:25.794 --> 00:12:26.274 helped... 324 00:12:27.274 --> 00:12:28.155 integrate folks in. 325 00:12:28.555 --> 00:12:29.516 And I think with community, 326 00:12:29.596 --> 00:12:29.936 it's like, 327 00:12:30.457 --> 00:12:32.038 as a community builder organizer, 328 00:12:32.238 --> 00:12:37.983 I am simply providing that safe environment for folks to participate in. 329 00:12:39.064 --> 00:12:43.788 But it's not my job to be the one initiating every single conversation. 330 00:12:45.590 --> 00:12:52.175 So making sure that all your members feel like they have a say in the community that they're a part of, 331 00:12:52.776 --> 00:12:55.238 And they get to steer the direction of 332 00:12:55.826 --> 00:12:56.066 Yes, 333 00:12:56.166 --> 00:12:58.668 we want more webinars. 334 00:12:58.688 --> 00:12:59.908 We want more coffee meetups. 335 00:12:59.909 --> 00:13:00.609 We want more of this. 336 00:13:00.610 --> 00:13:01.389 We want more of that. 337 00:13:01.889 --> 00:13:07.192 So being able to get that feedback and actually understand what is it that they want and what is it that they're looking for, 338 00:13:07.653 --> 00:13:09.394 as opposed to simply like dictating, 339 00:13:09.794 --> 00:13:12.095 here's our calendar of events and here's what we're going to do. 340 00:13:13.276 --> 00:13:13.436 Yeah, 341 00:13:13.656 --> 00:13:13.776 yeah, 342 00:13:13.836 --> 00:13:14.797 that's a really good one. 343 00:13:16.177 --> 00:13:19.019 And how actually did the events come about? 344 00:13:19.059 --> 00:13:19.419 Obviously, 345 00:13:19.499 --> 00:13:20.120 like you were saying, 346 00:13:20.220 --> 00:13:21.480 you started with meetups. 347 00:13:23.041 --> 00:13:24.242 How did that start? 348 00:13:24.482 --> 00:13:42.112 go to the huge events that women in tech seo now now run and champion and you're almost known for your events and the community is kind of a bonus like oh great i can i can go to this event and actually there's a conversation online following from it yeah 349 00:13:42.653 --> 00:13:51.378 yeah i mean initially the the first year was monthly meetups we were very very consistent i believe it was the first wednesday of every month where we... 350 00:13:51.898 --> 00:13:54.159 always held a meetup and then they kept growing and growing. 351 00:13:54.260 --> 00:13:54.920 Like we went from 352 00:13:55.340 --> 00:14:02.644 10 people meeting up for coffee to a hundred people in a big office space doing talks in the evening. 353 00:14:04.025 --> 00:14:08.048 And I think it was only three or four months of starting it where I was like, 354 00:14:08.368 --> 00:14:16.753 how cool would it be for us to have our own full day conference where we're amplifying women and people of marginalized gender, 355 00:14:16.993 --> 00:14:18.694 we're taking over the full stage. 356 00:14:20.059 --> 00:14:22.461 It's just us and we're able to host many of us. 357 00:14:23.702 --> 00:14:24.763 And yeah, 358 00:14:24.764 --> 00:14:26.805 it must have been August when I started planning it. 359 00:14:26.905 --> 00:14:30.588 And then we held our first conference in March 2020, 360 00:14:30.828 --> 00:14:31.629 right before COVID, 361 00:14:31.669 --> 00:14:32.129 which was very, 362 00:14:32.169 --> 00:14:32.630 very lucky. 363 00:14:33.871 --> 00:14:35.132 But it just, 364 00:14:35.672 --> 00:14:36.573 people wanted it. 365 00:14:36.673 --> 00:14:37.194 Like it was, 366 00:14:37.334 --> 00:14:37.614 you know, 367 00:14:39.315 --> 00:14:42.078 I was learning everything on the clock and 368 00:14:42.498 --> 00:14:44.500 I didn't know if it was going to work or not work. 369 00:14:44.501 --> 00:14:45.601 And it was going to be a big risk. 370 00:14:45.701 --> 00:14:46.622 but um 371 00:14:47.210 --> 00:14:52.152 we made it extremely accessible and it just worked out really, 372 00:14:52.172 --> 00:14:52.493 really well. 373 00:14:52.873 --> 00:14:56.634 And then we continued having our London festivals like every year, 374 00:14:57.955 --> 00:15:03.858 but then our digital community kept growing more and more and we realized we need to start going to other locations. 375 00:15:05.403 --> 00:15:05.523 Yeah, 376 00:15:05.582 --> 00:15:06.563 that's incredible. 377 00:15:06.564 --> 00:15:09.444 I guess the best learning here is, 378 00:15:09.524 --> 00:15:10.045 like you say, 379 00:15:10.186 --> 00:15:12.226 listening to what your community wants. 380 00:15:12.466 --> 00:15:14.507 So you've started in engineering, 381 00:15:14.688 --> 00:15:15.409 technical SEO, 382 00:15:15.948 --> 00:15:18.731 building a community and now running events. 383 00:15:19.550 --> 00:15:20.332 These are skills, 384 00:15:20.412 --> 00:15:21.011 I imagine, 385 00:15:21.192 --> 00:15:24.754 as if we go back to the first question of where did you see yourself in 10 years? 386 00:15:25.313 --> 00:15:31.058 I can't imagine you for a minute thought you were going to be running events and being on the stage as well. 387 00:15:32.077 --> 00:15:32.337 Yeah, 388 00:15:32.477 --> 00:15:33.259 how did that feel? 389 00:15:33.822 --> 00:15:34.002 Yeah, 390 00:15:34.202 --> 00:15:34.423 I mean, 391 00:15:34.462 --> 00:15:34.742 honestly, 392 00:15:34.783 --> 00:15:36.443 I do take it one day at a time. 393 00:15:37.223 --> 00:15:38.543 I always say now, 394 00:15:39.485 --> 00:15:40.725 my job never feels like a job, 395 00:15:40.804 --> 00:15:41.764 which is so beautiful. 396 00:15:42.845 --> 00:15:43.065 You know, 397 00:15:43.067 --> 00:15:43.706 when I was running, 398 00:15:43.785 --> 00:15:48.667 I ran WTS for many years as a passion project alongside my full time job. 399 00:15:49.146 --> 00:15:52.387 So it was taking over like all of my evenings and weekends. 400 00:15:53.727 --> 00:15:55.529 And then I went on maternity leave. 401 00:15:56.409 --> 00:15:57.369 And during that time, 402 00:15:57.389 --> 00:15:58.049 I was going to do 403 00:15:58.510 --> 00:16:02.091 I was thinking of pivoting and starting to do some freelancing and consulting. 404 00:16:03.190 --> 00:16:06.851 purely from an SEO basis while continuing to build WTS. 405 00:16:07.251 --> 00:16:11.553 And it was kind of that point where I found myself decreasing more of my 406 00:16:11.972 --> 00:16:14.193 SEO consulting time and increasing more of my 407 00:16:14.853 --> 00:16:15.534 WTS time. 408 00:16:16.615 --> 00:16:16.875 And then 409 00:16:17.595 --> 00:16:22.716 I sat down with a big Google sheet and just kind of like weighed up all my options and made the decision, 410 00:16:23.317 --> 00:16:23.496 okay, 411 00:16:23.497 --> 00:16:26.977 I'm going to give myself six months of only working on WTS. 412 00:16:28.197 --> 00:16:29.097 And if it doesn't work out, 413 00:16:29.098 --> 00:16:29.857 it doesn't work out. 414 00:16:29.957 --> 00:16:30.978 I can always go back to 415 00:16:31.358 --> 00:16:31.578 SEO. 416 00:16:32.558 --> 00:16:35.481 But then I do think it was that decision to put 100% 417 00:16:35.561 --> 00:16:40.745 of my time on it that probably helped it grow and get to the point that it has gotten now. 418 00:16:41.745 --> 00:16:44.187 And in terms of building this community, 419 00:16:44.327 --> 00:16:44.628 obviously, 420 00:16:44.707 --> 00:16:46.149 we're now at 12,000 members. 421 00:16:46.629 --> 00:16:51.251 Were there sort of pivotal moments where you saw this peak in growth? 422 00:16:51.452 --> 00:16:56.895 Was it after events or you yourself sponsoring of your sponsor of 423 00:16:58.417 --> 00:16:59.178 Brighton SEO? 424 00:16:59.878 --> 00:17:00.739 How did you keep? 425 00:17:01.098 --> 00:17:01.519 growing? 426 00:17:01.599 --> 00:17:04.322 How have we still got the momentum at Women in Tech SEO? 427 00:17:05.402 --> 00:17:05.543 Yeah, 428 00:17:05.743 --> 00:17:06.683 I think for us, 429 00:17:06.764 --> 00:17:11.888 something that's really helped was this idea of trying and testing different initiatives. 430 00:17:12.428 --> 00:17:15.130 So one of the initiatives we did very early on was our 431 00:17:15.571 --> 00:17:16.711 WTS mentorship program. 432 00:17:17.191 --> 00:17:19.653 And now it's at 10th cohort, 433 00:17:19.714 --> 00:17:21.315 10 edition at the minute that we're running. 434 00:17:21.835 --> 00:17:25.058 And the first time we ran it is completely different from how it looks now. 435 00:17:26.055 --> 00:17:29.497 And the way it works is that we match some folks apply to be mentors, 436 00:17:29.537 --> 00:17:30.597 some apply to be mentees. 437 00:17:30.937 --> 00:17:33.638 And then I do some matchmaking and I connect them with one another. 438 00:17:33.758 --> 00:17:35.299 We give lots of training and guidance. 439 00:17:35.579 --> 00:17:37.280 And it's like a cohort that lasts three months. 440 00:17:37.800 --> 00:17:38.801 And after each cohort, 441 00:17:38.821 --> 00:17:43.783 we collect lots of feedback and then we make changes and we adjust to the to the next time around. 442 00:17:44.863 --> 00:17:50.284 And that mentorship program has truly been probably one of our biggest drivers, 443 00:17:50.505 --> 00:17:54.147 both with retaining and growing our membership. 444 00:17:55.860 --> 00:17:56.079 And 445 00:17:56.599 --> 00:18:06.326 I have many other examples of those sorts of initiatives that we that get people excited and get them even like newly engaged in the in the community. 446 00:18:07.847 --> 00:18:13.932 Now we have webinars and workshops and talks and we have our own online publication. 447 00:18:13.952 --> 00:18:17.574 We have a weekly newsletter and we just test and learn different things. 448 00:18:17.674 --> 00:18:22.758 And I feel like folks then either hear from us because of a new initiative or. 449 00:18:23.198 --> 00:18:26.822 we retain them and they get re-engaged because one of these initiatives. 450 00:18:27.902 --> 00:18:28.403 Yeah, 451 00:18:28.404 --> 00:18:28.923 I love that. 452 00:18:28.983 --> 00:18:29.183 Yeah, 453 00:18:29.184 --> 00:18:33.386 because I suppose like from the kind of mentor-mentee program, 454 00:18:34.086 --> 00:18:42.851 you're re-engaging the people that have been in your community for a long time to be that mentor and to kind of promote your whole ethos of giving back. 455 00:18:43.893 --> 00:18:47.575 And we really see the giving back element throughout Women in Tech SEO, 456 00:18:47.676 --> 00:18:48.295 which again, 457 00:18:48.556 --> 00:18:52.698 I think is a testament to kind of the genuine and community you've built. 458 00:18:53.659 --> 00:18:59.120 I'm thinking particularly about the free tickets you try and keep for your events. 459 00:18:59.380 --> 00:19:12.864 How fundamental do you think it is to community building to have core values on how you think you want to build and shape and the type of people and attitudes that should be in the community? 460 00:19:12.964 --> 00:19:19.526 Because I imagine it's pretty easy to set up a community and it can go bad in some ways. 461 00:19:19.566 --> 00:19:20.266 There can be some... 462 00:19:20.806 --> 00:19:21.807 bad conversations. 463 00:19:21.888 --> 00:19:22.027 Yeah, 464 00:19:22.168 --> 00:19:22.408 I mean, 465 00:19:22.447 --> 00:19:27.029 I always say like a code of conduct makes or breaks a community for sure. 466 00:19:27.370 --> 00:19:34.854 And that's one of the things that a lot of people who are building a community need to make sure is there and it's very clear and very obvious from the start. 467 00:19:35.314 --> 00:19:39.937 We started off by just having some rules in our Facebook group, 468 00:19:40.537 --> 00:19:41.817 like many other communities do. 469 00:19:42.218 --> 00:19:44.259 But then we kept growing that more and more. 470 00:19:44.959 --> 00:19:46.541 We call it the WTS way. 471 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:48.341 And that's our code of conduct, 472 00:19:48.401 --> 00:19:49.141 our values. 473 00:19:50.382 --> 00:19:51.464 which are to be kind, 474 00:19:51.484 --> 00:19:52.145 to be helpful, 475 00:19:52.225 --> 00:19:54.466 to be respectful and to be a judgment-free place. 476 00:19:55.428 --> 00:19:56.709 And those really, 477 00:19:56.969 --> 00:19:57.690 in many ways, 478 00:19:57.791 --> 00:20:01.115 just kind of drive a lot of the initiatives and a lot of the work that we do. 479 00:20:01.655 --> 00:20:04.978 I also think a code of conduct is very important because then it isn't... 480 00:20:05.753 --> 00:20:08.815 You're not kind of second guessing yourself on any decisions you need to make. 481 00:20:09.895 --> 00:20:13.357 Something I always say is you can't make everyone happy as a community organizer. 482 00:20:13.718 --> 00:20:17.160 Sometimes you might make decisions that upset some people, 483 00:20:17.520 --> 00:20:20.562 but it is for the benefit of the community as a whole. 484 00:20:20.922 --> 00:20:23.623 So if you have a proper code of conduct in place, 485 00:20:24.004 --> 00:20:24.364 rules, 486 00:20:24.444 --> 00:20:25.044 values, 487 00:20:25.485 --> 00:20:27.085 and they're all very clearly labeled, 488 00:20:27.125 --> 00:20:28.366 very clearly marked, 489 00:20:28.367 --> 00:20:32.809 there are things that you share from day one in the onboarding and you continue to remind your members of. 490 00:20:33.421 --> 00:20:36.222 If a problem happens or if something needs to be escalated, 491 00:20:36.562 --> 00:20:39.843 you can so easily refer back to that code of conduct and say, 492 00:20:40.783 --> 00:20:43.524 this is actually a break in this specific rule or so on. 493 00:20:44.945 --> 00:20:45.105 Yeah. 494 00:20:45.545 --> 00:20:46.425 And it's funny because, 495 00:20:46.485 --> 00:20:46.765 you know, 496 00:20:47.326 --> 00:20:48.266 if you have a company, 497 00:20:48.746 --> 00:20:49.086 of course, 498 00:20:49.087 --> 00:20:50.707 there's always a code of conduct. 499 00:20:51.147 --> 00:20:53.488 Why doesn't that get translated to a community where, 500 00:20:53.628 --> 00:20:54.028 in fact, 501 00:20:54.108 --> 00:20:57.649 you have even less control over what people are doing and how many? 502 00:20:57.969 --> 00:20:59.790 brands out there are really thinking, 503 00:20:59.870 --> 00:21:00.070 okay, 504 00:21:00.110 --> 00:21:02.071 what do we actually want to get out of this community? 505 00:21:02.191 --> 00:21:03.351 What are our values? 506 00:21:04.012 --> 00:21:07.593 How do we translate our company values to this community? 507 00:21:08.313 --> 00:21:13.816 How are we going to filter out people if something is against our policies? 508 00:21:14.316 --> 00:21:16.717 If you were hired by a company tomorrow, 509 00:21:17.317 --> 00:21:20.879 how would you build a community from scratch for them? 510 00:21:21.499 --> 00:21:22.339 I mean, 511 00:21:22.379 --> 00:21:26.021 I imagine we're going to get some lovely lessons from your book because that's what... 512 00:21:26.241 --> 00:21:28.142 kind of the goal of the book is. 513 00:21:28.143 --> 00:21:28.262 I mean, 514 00:21:28.263 --> 00:21:28.482 honestly, 515 00:21:28.602 --> 00:21:29.162 I wouldn't, 516 00:21:29.542 --> 00:21:30.463 as I said already, 517 00:21:30.643 --> 00:21:32.624 I don't think I'd go in right away and be like, 518 00:21:32.904 --> 00:21:34.644 let's build a community from scratch for us. 519 00:21:35.205 --> 00:21:46.629 I'd absolutely research the space and try to understand our audience intersection and see what communities already exist within those audience intersections that I can then engage in and become a very, 520 00:21:46.669 --> 00:21:51.571 very active member of before making the decision of potentially starting our own community. 521 00:21:52.111 --> 00:21:52.832 I feel like there are, 522 00:21:53.172 --> 00:21:55.673 it's almost like this flow chart of a lot of companies might. 523 00:21:56.093 --> 00:22:00.656 Or brands go right away into build your own community from scratch, 524 00:22:01.056 --> 00:22:05.658 as opposed to following this beautiful flowchart of what other communities are out there? 525 00:22:05.818 --> 00:22:06.078 You know, 526 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:09.700 how are our different audience persona kind of split across them? 527 00:22:10.101 --> 00:22:11.862 How can we engage in those communities? 528 00:22:12.242 --> 00:22:12.622 Some of them, 529 00:22:12.623 --> 00:22:17.304 it might purely be being a helpful active member and seeing some of the conversations. 530 00:22:17.685 --> 00:22:25.269 Other it might be partnering or sponsoring with them and becoming part of their both their digital ecosystem and their in-person ecosystem, 531 00:22:25.309 --> 00:22:25.809 for example. 532 00:22:26.489 --> 00:22:28.170 And once you've done that, 533 00:22:28.670 --> 00:22:29.591 you might realize, 534 00:22:29.611 --> 00:22:29.751 well, 535 00:22:29.771 --> 00:22:30.251 that's enough. 536 00:22:30.571 --> 00:22:30.991 You know, 537 00:22:32.252 --> 00:22:33.672 we're dedicating a lot of time in this. 538 00:22:33.673 --> 00:22:37.214 We are putting budget across it and we feel like we're reaching our people through that. 539 00:22:37.834 --> 00:22:46.278 Or people or the company might realize that there is still this gap and we've learned all these learnings from being part of these communities. 540 00:22:46.758 --> 00:22:51.480 And so we can now start our own and that will look 541 00:22:52.120 --> 00:22:52.540 X, Y, 542 00:22:52.541 --> 00:22:52.640 Z. 543 00:22:52.681 --> 00:22:53.761 And it's going to help. 544 00:22:53.881 --> 00:22:56.922 close the gaps that we haven't been able to materialize there. 545 00:22:57.323 --> 00:22:57.443 So 546 00:22:57.803 --> 00:23:05.826 I feel like that's something I tend to speak to a lot of our partners and some of the brands out there. 547 00:23:06.587 --> 00:23:11.609 And also it's this idea of community can be shaped very differently. 548 00:23:12.589 --> 00:23:16.171 I love to think of community as a space for two-way conversation. 549 00:23:17.191 --> 00:23:17.431 And so, 550 00:23:17.471 --> 00:23:17.992 for example, 551 00:23:18.052 --> 00:23:20.393 some brands might think about, 552 00:23:20.493 --> 00:23:20.853 I don't know, 553 00:23:20.873 --> 00:23:21.073 their 554 00:23:21.333 --> 00:23:22.754 audience newsletter as a community, 555 00:23:22.874 --> 00:23:26.116 but that's not necessarily the case because you're kind of speaking at them. 556 00:23:27.236 --> 00:23:30.698 But then your social channels might be a community in a way, 557 00:23:30.818 --> 00:23:34.160 because maybe you're constantly engaging with them and having back and forth. 558 00:23:34.660 --> 00:23:40.523 So it doesn't have to be all this work of create a big digital space, 559 00:23:40.543 --> 00:23:43.425 have a big in-person presence and so on. 560 00:23:43.805 --> 00:23:46.907 It could literally be tapping into a single channel, 561 00:23:47.347 --> 00:23:50.709 but ensuring that there's back-to-back conversation happening. 562 00:23:51.469 --> 00:23:51.649 Yeah, 563 00:23:52.650 --> 00:23:53.110 everybody, 564 00:23:53.511 --> 00:23:54.051 as you say, 565 00:23:54.471 --> 00:23:55.292 it's very big, 566 00:23:55.372 --> 00:23:56.012 this community, 567 00:23:56.813 --> 00:23:58.154 a brand having a community. 568 00:23:58.854 --> 00:23:59.815 And yeah, 569 00:23:59.816 --> 00:24:03.397 are we all a bit too quick to jump on it and hope that, 570 00:24:03.457 --> 00:24:03.698 you know, 571 00:24:03.718 --> 00:24:08.221 we see your success with Women in Tech SEO and we all think, 572 00:24:08.281 --> 00:24:08.461 oh, 573 00:24:08.801 --> 00:24:10.522 can we build the same scale? 574 00:24:10.622 --> 00:24:14.265 But that might not be where your ICP is living. 575 00:24:14.365 --> 00:24:15.566 There might not be a need. 576 00:24:16.046 --> 00:24:16.226 Yeah, 577 00:24:16.326 --> 00:24:16.566 really, 578 00:24:16.807 --> 00:24:17.627 really interesting. 579 00:24:17.887 --> 00:24:20.049 yeah it's funny at Weglot we were we were 580 00:24:20.349 --> 00:24:38.682 sort of looking into the concept of building an international community around similar to what we're doing with the podcast and international marketing space um and a little bit reverse to how you've built women in tech seo we have a series of events um this podcast and and 581 00:24:38.802 --> 00:24:44.806 we've then tried to to build the community so we've done a little bit the opposite way but absolutely yeah 582 00:24:45.386 --> 00:24:49.269 It's hard to try and get that engagement early on. 583 00:24:50.686 --> 00:24:53.769 I kind of want to turn now into a bit more of the international aspect. 584 00:24:53.809 --> 00:24:54.430 So obviously, 585 00:24:55.011 --> 00:24:55.351 earlier, 586 00:24:55.912 --> 00:24:59.977 we spoke about how that very naturally happened from day one. 587 00:25:00.357 --> 00:25:01.499 Was that expected? 588 00:25:01.639 --> 00:25:03.962 Did you think when you first launched that tweet that, 589 00:25:04.102 --> 00:25:04.382 okay, 590 00:25:04.483 --> 00:25:05.964 it's going to be outside of the UK? 591 00:25:07.608 --> 00:25:07.728 No, 592 00:25:07.888 --> 00:25:08.529 absolutely not. 593 00:25:08.649 --> 00:25:08.929 I mean, 594 00:25:09.289 --> 00:25:10.670 I didn't have that big of a network, 595 00:25:10.750 --> 00:25:15.033 but my network was primarily in the UK and even 596 00:25:15.554 --> 00:25:16.574 London, more or less. 597 00:25:17.475 --> 00:25:21.858 So I was very surprised that there was an interest around the world. 598 00:25:22.259 --> 00:25:28.603 And I would say initially it was a lot of folks in North America who did join in the early days. 599 00:25:29.123 --> 00:25:30.364 But over time, 600 00:25:31.025 --> 00:25:31.805 so to this day, 601 00:25:31.845 --> 00:25:34.047 I would say maybe a little over 50% 602 00:25:34.487 --> 00:25:35.248 are UK based. 603 00:25:35.664 --> 00:25:36.345 And then 30% 604 00:25:36.765 --> 00:25:39.527 are North America and we have like 10% 605 00:25:39.627 --> 00:25:41.208 Europe and then the rest of the world. 606 00:25:42.849 --> 00:25:47.372 But it did help dictate a lot of our direction when it comes to our in-person festivals. 607 00:25:47.452 --> 00:25:53.396 So the first place that we launched our festival after London was Philadelphia. 608 00:25:53.576 --> 00:25:54.757 And that was a few years ago. 609 00:25:55.758 --> 00:25:56.478 And then from then on, 610 00:25:56.518 --> 00:25:58.319 we went and launched in 611 00:25:59.140 --> 00:26:01.441 Portland to have that West Coast market. 612 00:26:01.822 --> 00:26:05.224 We also had festivals in Berlin and we had ones in Melbourne. 613 00:26:06.152 --> 00:26:12.596 So the community growth dictated where we should go and where we should focus, 614 00:26:12.976 --> 00:26:16.958 just purely based on where our members are and where they're the most active. 615 00:26:17.978 --> 00:26:24.742 But I think having a very engaged digital space does help make it very accessible for people all around the world, 616 00:26:24.882 --> 00:26:25.643 different time zones, 617 00:26:25.663 --> 00:26:26.603 different locations. 618 00:26:27.804 --> 00:26:35.068 And then it's the in-person connections where we are pretty much dictated by how active 619 00:26:35.508 --> 00:26:36.909 our members are in different areas. 620 00:26:37.629 --> 00:26:38.189 As you said, 621 00:26:38.269 --> 00:26:38.389 you, 622 00:26:38.629 --> 00:26:38.749 you, 623 00:26:38.769 --> 00:26:39.210 um, 624 00:26:39.250 --> 00:26:40.430 a lot of your events, 625 00:26:41.011 --> 00:26:43.251 are built from the demand of your community. 626 00:26:43.372 --> 00:26:44.092 Um, 627 00:26:44.232 --> 00:26:48.614 but what about more kind of the local aspect and managing local initiatives? 628 00:26:48.834 --> 00:26:51.195 Have you done anything within your community to, 629 00:26:51.755 --> 00:26:54.777 to create local ambassadors or is this sort of naturally, 630 00:26:55.057 --> 00:26:55.717 because myself, 631 00:26:55.837 --> 00:26:56.097 again, 632 00:26:56.197 --> 00:26:56.317 I, 633 00:26:56.437 --> 00:26:57.118 I'm a member of, 634 00:26:57.298 --> 00:26:57.618 of the, 635 00:26:58.118 --> 00:26:58.498 of the 636 00:26:58.838 --> 00:27:01.880 Slack channel and I do often see like Spanish um 637 00:27:02.540 --> 00:27:28.435 online meetup happening did that again organically happen um from your community or did you try and put that in place your yourself as the community owner yeah so absolutely organically happened to be honest like it was um requests from our members that wanted to have more local connections um we have a few local channels that are built around some of the bigger like wider so we have a duck channel for 638 00:27:29.135 --> 00:27:30.236 Germany, Switzerland. 639 00:27:30.912 --> 00:27:35.455 We have an Australia channel and we have a France channel, 640 00:27:35.475 --> 00:27:36.316 a Canada channel. 641 00:27:36.736 --> 00:27:44.262 So some of these local channels were requested by several of our members and it helps them connect with one another. 642 00:27:45.863 --> 00:27:46.623 Folks in Germany, 643 00:27:46.883 --> 00:27:48.124 both Berlin and Munich, 644 00:27:48.325 --> 00:27:50.126 they do in-person meetups. 645 00:27:51.086 --> 00:27:52.968 But then folks in Australia or Canada, 646 00:27:52.988 --> 00:27:53.548 for example, 647 00:27:53.568 --> 00:27:56.190 they have monthly virtual meetups. 648 00:27:56.630 --> 00:27:58.492 So a lot of it is dictated by... 649 00:27:59.692 --> 00:28:01.454 by the members and what they want to put together. 650 00:28:01.834 --> 00:28:03.756 But also we do we get feedback on everything, 651 00:28:03.876 --> 00:28:05.178 even our Slack channels. 652 00:28:05.358 --> 00:28:08.741 So we do a lot of work on curating our Slack channels, 653 00:28:08.821 --> 00:28:09.542 cleaning them up, 654 00:28:09.642 --> 00:28:10.523 changing them up, 655 00:28:11.724 --> 00:28:14.887 overthinking the naming conventions of how they're going to be listed. 656 00:28:15.768 --> 00:28:19.732 And so much of that is dictated by our members. 657 00:28:19.812 --> 00:28:20.432 But also just, 658 00:28:20.452 --> 00:28:20.693 you know, 659 00:28:20.733 --> 00:28:23.035 our industry is changing all the time. 660 00:28:23.315 --> 00:28:23.595 Yeah, 661 00:28:23.596 --> 00:28:23.716 the. 662 00:28:24.284 --> 00:28:27.925 amount of conversation now around AI visibility tools and so forth. 663 00:28:28.166 --> 00:28:28.506 Of course, 664 00:28:28.526 --> 00:28:30.847 those conversations weren't happening a year or two ago, 665 00:28:31.327 --> 00:28:35.529 but now they are taking up so much headspace of folks in the industry. 666 00:28:35.969 --> 00:28:38.070 And we can see it translated across the board. 667 00:28:38.110 --> 00:28:41.311 So not just in discussions in our digital community, 668 00:28:41.731 --> 00:28:50.274 but also in articles that are going live in our online publication or talks that are being pitched in our in-person festivals. 669 00:28:50.815 --> 00:28:53.816 So it's about being very flexible. 670 00:28:54.728 --> 00:28:56.569 and open to some of these changes. 671 00:28:57.370 --> 00:28:59.631 So even though I'm not an SEO myself anymore, 672 00:28:59.771 --> 00:29:00.991 I haven't actually practiced any 673 00:29:01.332 --> 00:29:03.113 SEO in the last two or three years. 674 00:29:03.733 --> 00:29:04.173 But of course, 675 00:29:04.174 --> 00:29:09.836 we have to be very close and understanding of the shift that's happening in the industry for us to respond back to that. 676 00:29:10.570 --> 00:29:10.690 Yeah, 677 00:29:10.710 --> 00:29:12.911 so let's touch more on AI. 678 00:29:13.011 --> 00:29:19.494 And every podcast episode we've had has kind of slightly gone towards that because it's something we can't avoid. 679 00:29:19.534 --> 00:29:20.134 And like you say, 680 00:29:20.614 --> 00:29:24.075 it's great how you're kind of seeing those trends live, 681 00:29:24.396 --> 00:29:26.556 even in just talk submissions. 682 00:29:28.157 --> 00:29:37.301 How important then do you think community is going to be in this more move towards everything being depersonalized? 683 00:29:38.101 --> 00:29:38.981 Will community... 684 00:29:40.998 --> 00:30:09.694 management community building be the last touch before we lose all personalization yeah i mean honestly i think communities are just going to get bigger and bigger because people are really struggling to get that personalized like touch at the minute of all things and trust is probably the biggest currency there is at the minute with the amount of misinformation out there and how fragmented all the different channels have become um 685 00:30:10.354 --> 00:30:15.479 So that word of mouth is so big and so valid and so important. 686 00:30:15.579 --> 00:30:19.202 And when you're part of an engaged community that you already trust, 687 00:30:19.722 --> 00:30:20.503 it makes a massive, 688 00:30:20.543 --> 00:30:26.028 massive difference to go in there and ask a question and get an answer from a person as opposed to, 689 00:30:27.649 --> 00:30:27.929 you know, 690 00:30:28.090 --> 00:30:32.273 do a I don't know whether it's a Google search or an AI search or whatever it might be. 691 00:30:33.955 --> 00:30:37.518 And I think a lot of brands and companies are starting to realize that as well. 692 00:30:37.966 --> 00:30:41.248 There's a lot of work that can be done to how can we appear on, 693 00:30:41.609 --> 00:30:41.889 you know, 694 00:30:43.690 --> 00:30:43.810 the 695 00:30:44.411 --> 00:30:46.752 AEO and how can we optimize this and how can we do that? 696 00:30:46.832 --> 00:30:54.438 But at the end of the day is how to get people to actually trust us and to be talking about us. 697 00:30:55.879 --> 00:30:58.261 And I think from a community organizer perspective, 698 00:30:58.781 --> 00:31:05.486 there is there is a big difference between you can absolutely use AI for things that help. 699 00:31:06.102 --> 00:31:06.962 with efficiency. 700 00:31:07.262 --> 00:31:10.583 So make things more coherent, 701 00:31:10.763 --> 00:31:12.424 have a better onboarding structure, 702 00:31:12.824 --> 00:31:13.124 do this, 703 00:31:13.144 --> 00:31:13.504 do that. 704 00:31:13.884 --> 00:31:21.686 But it will never help actually understand the qualitative feedback that might be coming from your members or what's working or what's not working. 705 00:31:22.627 --> 00:31:27.748 And even if you end up tapping into some of these tools and integrating them with the system, 706 00:31:28.168 --> 00:31:29.749 it will always feel just very, 707 00:31:29.789 --> 00:31:32.189 very artificial and it will lose a big part of that, 708 00:31:33.150 --> 00:31:33.910 what makes it human. 709 00:31:34.838 --> 00:31:41.964 So something I get a lot is the matchmaking process of the mentorship program is something that I've constantly done very, 710 00:31:42.064 --> 00:31:42.725 very manually. 711 00:31:43.025 --> 00:31:46.148 Like I would look at everyone who applies to be a mentor, 712 00:31:46.208 --> 00:31:47.489 everyone who applies to be a mentee, 713 00:31:47.689 --> 00:31:50.691 I would read their responses and I would match them with one another. 714 00:31:51.252 --> 00:31:54.194 And I know that if I used AI to do that, 715 00:31:54.675 --> 00:31:59.439 it would not in any way result in how strong some of these matches are. 716 00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:00.119 Yeah, 717 00:32:00.179 --> 00:32:01.280 it's almost full circle, 718 00:32:01.281 --> 00:32:01.580 isn't it? 719 00:32:01.581 --> 00:32:01.781 You know, 720 00:32:02.161 --> 00:32:03.262 You set your tweet out. 721 00:32:03.622 --> 00:32:08.285 people were looking for a community and now we're depersonalizing. 722 00:32:08.325 --> 00:32:09.206 And then everyone's like, 723 00:32:09.207 --> 00:32:11.768 I want to go back to this community aspect. 724 00:32:12.048 --> 00:32:13.689 I want to feel like I belong. 725 00:32:14.950 --> 00:32:15.110 Yeah, 726 00:32:15.331 --> 00:32:16.932 I want to speak to humans. 727 00:32:17.432 --> 00:32:18.493 And I think community, 728 00:32:18.573 --> 00:32:18.693 yeah, 729 00:32:19.333 --> 00:32:20.975 building your communities is just, 730 00:32:21.315 --> 00:32:25.598 it can't disappear because we're all desperate for that connection still. 731 00:32:25.838 --> 00:32:30.321 So we were talking about allowing your community to build. 732 00:32:31.422 --> 00:32:31.802 smaller, 733 00:32:31.882 --> 00:32:34.004 almost subgroups and meetups, 734 00:32:34.684 --> 00:32:35.044 obviously, 735 00:32:35.645 --> 00:32:37.706 likely in their native languages. 736 00:32:39.407 --> 00:32:44.910 How do you ensure that you have the safe space of women in tech SEO in those, 737 00:32:45.010 --> 00:32:45.691 even though they're not, 738 00:32:46.611 --> 00:32:47.612 you've instigated them, 739 00:32:47.652 --> 00:32:50.714 but they're not women in tech owned? 740 00:32:51.434 --> 00:32:51.654 Yes, 741 00:32:51.935 --> 00:32:52.155 yes. 742 00:32:52.355 --> 00:32:52.595 I mean, 743 00:32:53.275 --> 00:32:54.496 it's terrifying and it's scary. 744 00:32:55.657 --> 00:32:57.078 It's the first thing I need to say. 745 00:32:58.199 --> 00:33:00.040 There's a lot of work that goes into it. 746 00:33:01.341 --> 00:33:04.384 We do provide a lot of training and support for folks who host those. 747 00:33:04.924 --> 00:33:07.146 Everything from a conversation, 748 00:33:07.166 --> 00:33:13.592 a call to a one pager of how to ensure that you're following the code of conduct and what our WTS way. 749 00:33:14.012 --> 00:33:24.761 We have certain guidelines around introducing the WTS way at the start of any meetup or conversation and making sure that 750 00:33:25.942 --> 00:33:26.162 you know, 751 00:33:26.242 --> 00:33:27.103 it is aligned. 752 00:33:28.244 --> 00:33:30.026 But something we are working on because we, 753 00:33:30.366 --> 00:33:31.087 at the minute, 754 00:33:31.227 --> 00:33:34.329 this is going to be one of our biggest initiatives this year is 755 00:33:35.704 --> 00:33:41.386 an official like WTS chapters initiative where our hosts, 756 00:33:41.446 --> 00:33:42.207 our ambassadors, 757 00:33:42.267 --> 00:33:46.228 our local guides would be folks that we provide a lot of training to. 758 00:33:46.728 --> 00:33:54.452 And then these local connections then would be officially part of the WTS umbrella. 759 00:33:54.952 --> 00:33:56.072 And I think that's come from, 760 00:33:56.212 --> 00:34:02.135 we're almost doing it like the opposite way around where a lot of people would start with these and then go to like the bigger conferences, 761 00:34:02.515 --> 00:34:05.016 whereas we've kind of done it a little bit differently. 762 00:34:05.416 --> 00:34:14.182 But I do truly believe there is something so beautiful about those micro communities that come off the back of a larger community because it cannot. 763 00:34:14.683 --> 00:34:18.986 It doesn't matter what festival we hold or if it's the best conference in the world or so on. 764 00:34:19.386 --> 00:34:31.155 It will never meet the niche needs of a small local group who may want to speak in the same language or have similar needs or have similar. 765 00:34:32.096 --> 00:34:32.216 So, 766 00:34:32.476 --> 00:34:32.616 yeah. 767 00:34:32.756 --> 00:34:50.621 that's something we're really really focusing on on this year is to cater more to those uh folks and when did the realization that you think we need this um yeah when when did that happen was that from feedback from the groups um yeah i think definitely feedback from the groups but also it does people 768 00:34:50.661 --> 00:35:01.584 are always asking for more ways to connect more ways to connect and i you know it's accessible and inclusive to have like virtual options. 769 00:35:02.228 --> 00:35:03.969 But it's exactly what you were just saying. 770 00:35:04.029 --> 00:35:07.430 Like people need that in-person connection more than ever right now. 771 00:35:07.811 --> 00:35:08.051 I mean, 772 00:35:08.071 --> 00:35:08.711 in many ways, 773 00:35:09.011 --> 00:35:16.395 the only reason we hosted WTS Fest in Berlin twice is because our Berlin community were so active. 774 00:35:16.835 --> 00:35:19.156 They were doing their own monthly meetups every single month. 775 00:35:19.776 --> 00:35:20.356 And we were like, 776 00:35:20.396 --> 00:35:20.557 well, 777 00:35:21.037 --> 00:35:22.938 why aren't we hosting a festival there? 778 00:35:23.218 --> 00:35:25.639 So I do think it will help us as well, 779 00:35:25.999 --> 00:35:27.680 even purely from a data perspective. 780 00:35:28.160 --> 00:35:32.821 What makes sense in terms of where we grow or where we take our conference next or so on? 781 00:35:33.101 --> 00:35:33.602 Yeah, 782 00:35:33.902 --> 00:35:34.582 that's really cool. 783 00:35:34.882 --> 00:35:39.343 And do you imagine there might one day be a conference, 784 00:35:39.683 --> 00:35:48.226 a Women in Tech SEO conference that's not in English and it would be in the native language of that community, 785 00:35:48.366 --> 00:35:48.966 sub-community? 786 00:35:49.006 --> 00:35:49.186 Yeah, 787 00:35:49.366 --> 00:35:49.946 I believe so. 788 00:35:50.386 --> 00:35:51.007 I definitely, 789 00:35:51.147 --> 00:35:51.387 you know, 790 00:35:51.707 --> 00:35:54.908 all of our initiatives that we do at the minute are all in English. 791 00:35:56.188 --> 00:35:59.251 And all of the communication that happens in our digital spaces are in English. 792 00:35:59.571 --> 00:36:06.656 But I absolutely don't see a reason why we can't start supporting different languages. 793 00:36:08.698 --> 00:36:08.958 It's, 794 00:36:09.319 --> 00:36:09.499 yeah, 795 00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:10.319 as someone who, 796 00:36:10.740 --> 00:36:10.960 I mean, 797 00:36:11.040 --> 00:36:12.421 English is my second language. 798 00:36:13.682 --> 00:36:15.984 How beautiful it would have absolutely felt for me, 799 00:36:17.645 --> 00:36:17.785 yeah, 800 00:36:17.825 --> 00:36:20.308 to be part of a community where I can speak in my own language. 801 00:36:20.648 --> 00:36:22.930 Every now and then when I'm running one of our conferences, 802 00:36:23.030 --> 00:36:25.572 I would run into someone who is fluent in Arabic. 803 00:36:26.016 --> 00:36:31.100 And the joy I feel that we like stand there and talk in Arabic a little bit together. 804 00:36:31.240 --> 00:36:31.360 So, 805 00:36:31.600 --> 00:36:31.780 yeah, 806 00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:32.340 of course, 807 00:36:32.521 --> 00:36:34.002 language is just such a big, 808 00:36:34.062 --> 00:36:36.503 beautiful thing that connects many people. 809 00:36:37.104 --> 00:36:42.087 And we were not equipped at the minute to be like organizing those. 810 00:36:42.167 --> 00:36:42.387 But, 811 00:36:43.348 --> 00:36:43.608 you know, 812 00:36:44.168 --> 00:36:47.511 our community members are what makes up our community. 813 00:36:47.991 --> 00:36:49.692 And many of them are extremely, 814 00:36:49.732 --> 00:36:54.976 extremely active and engaged that I would absolutely trust some of them to like help hold some of these with us. 815 00:36:55.724 --> 00:36:56.725 So watch this space, 816 00:36:56.765 --> 00:36:57.325 basically. 817 00:36:57.986 --> 00:37:00.547 Yeah. 818 00:37:00.548 --> 00:37:02.549 And do you think that kind of, 819 00:37:03.890 --> 00:37:09.374 what do you project for the growth then in allowing these sort of micro communities to grow? 820 00:37:09.954 --> 00:37:15.018 I imagine that's going to open up a whole new space for women in tech SEO. 821 00:37:16.459 --> 00:37:16.599 Yeah, 822 00:37:17.139 --> 00:37:18.960 allowing that more freedom, 823 00:37:19.060 --> 00:37:22.283 but with your exact guidance in different countries. 824 00:37:23.303 --> 00:37:23.584 Are you... 825 00:37:24.064 --> 00:37:30.546 Do you put growth numbers on targets on community or you just very much allow it to be more organic? 826 00:37:31.386 --> 00:37:31.546 Yeah, 827 00:37:31.666 --> 00:37:31.926 I mean, 828 00:37:32.166 --> 00:37:38.829 we do have we do have targets with its number of the number of members, 829 00:37:38.869 --> 00:37:40.469 the number of active members, 830 00:37:41.769 --> 00:37:46.711 the monthly messages that are exchanged and then our social followers and our newsletter subscribers. 831 00:37:47.131 --> 00:37:49.152 Those are kind of like the main KPIs we look after. 832 00:37:50.312 --> 00:37:51.072 To be honest, 833 00:37:51.212 --> 00:37:53.913 the main reason we do look after them is because, 834 00:37:54.353 --> 00:37:55.154 I mean, 835 00:37:55.174 --> 00:37:56.374 we're a completely free community. 836 00:37:56.634 --> 00:37:58.715 Everyone and anyone can join for free. 837 00:37:59.375 --> 00:38:01.896 But we fund it through our partners program. 838 00:38:02.296 --> 00:38:02.796 And of course, 839 00:38:02.836 --> 00:38:08.038 partners who are putting money behind it want to know those KPIs and want to know those numbers. 840 00:38:08.118 --> 00:38:10.579 And the better those numbers, 841 00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:13.440 the more likely that they will partner and sponsor up with us. 842 00:38:16.105 --> 00:38:17.447 But I go back to what I said before, 843 00:38:17.487 --> 00:38:18.768 which is quality over quantity. 844 00:38:18.948 --> 00:38:19.068 Yeah, 845 00:38:19.069 --> 00:38:22.772 and it's not all about vanity metrics like, 846 00:38:22.872 --> 00:38:22.992 oh, 847 00:38:23.012 --> 00:38:23.253 you know, 848 00:38:23.273 --> 00:38:24.094 we're present in 849 00:38:24.574 --> 00:38:28.438 60 countries worldwide if they're not actually engaged. 850 00:38:28.518 --> 00:38:29.399 That's really interesting. 851 00:38:29.940 --> 00:38:34.685 Would you ever consider then going for a translated website for the women in tech SEO? 852 00:38:35.225 --> 00:38:35.466 Obviously, 853 00:38:35.486 --> 00:38:37.388 we can have a lot of community led channels. 854 00:38:37.967 --> 00:38:40.708 could break away and be in Spanish and Arabic. 855 00:38:41.068 --> 00:38:42.649 But what about your main, 856 00:38:43.029 --> 00:38:43.570 your website, 857 00:38:43.571 --> 00:38:44.170 your blog, 858 00:38:44.370 --> 00:38:49.512 would that be something you'd ever consider adding that cultural language aspect onto? 859 00:38:50.513 --> 00:38:50.693 Yeah, 860 00:38:50.813 --> 00:38:51.313 absolutely. 861 00:38:51.473 --> 00:38:51.753 I mean, 862 00:38:52.153 --> 00:38:57.536 something when it comes to the accessibility of the education and the knowledge that we're sharing, 863 00:38:57.996 --> 00:38:59.577 it's something that we think about all the time. 864 00:38:59.677 --> 00:39:00.617 So for example, 865 00:39:01.078 --> 00:39:03.959 when we share the recordings of some of our conferences, 866 00:39:04.259 --> 00:39:07.160 we always ensure that there are proper captions, 867 00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:12.441 subtitles available in lots of different languages for it to be more accessible to folks. 868 00:39:12.922 --> 00:39:17.223 I think now that we're generating a lot more content than we used to back in the day, 869 00:39:17.663 --> 00:39:22.184 we have an extremely active online publication that publishes new articles every week. 870 00:39:22.284 --> 00:39:24.325 We have a weekly newsletter that goes out. 871 00:39:24.925 --> 00:39:30.767 We always tell our writers not to worry if English isn't their first language. 872 00:39:31.155 --> 00:39:36.878 because they get to work alongside an extremely experienced head of content who helps them with editing. 873 00:39:37.699 --> 00:39:38.039 But there, 874 00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:38.459 again, 875 00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:43.842 still is something so raw and beautiful about people sharing things in their own language. 876 00:39:44.542 --> 00:39:57.250 What we do at the minute to help meet that demand is we sponsor a lot of other communities that are based in different countries and languages to help support, 877 00:39:58.590 --> 00:39:59.851 because we know that we can't meet. 878 00:39:59.951 --> 00:40:18.526 that market at the minute uh but something i am absolutely aware of especially with the amount of content we have now both in our online publication our newsletters how can we make those more accessible and inclusive and available for people around the world um yeah not just in english and not having language 879 00:40:18.566 --> 00:40:28.815 be be a barrier for for some folks yeah yeah i love that and i actually had no idea that you you added subtitles for so a lot of the for the event that's really cool. 880 00:40:30.116 --> 00:40:30.296 Yeah, 881 00:40:30.316 --> 00:40:30.536 okay, 882 00:40:30.596 --> 00:40:40.684 so that's kind of maybe 2027 plans is to branch out and offer more languages on your website. 883 00:40:40.685 --> 00:40:46.829 And it's a very good point you make about you can be the best writer in your second language, 884 00:40:46.849 --> 00:40:51.893 but nothing beats how the authenticity you can get across in your first language. 885 00:40:52.033 --> 00:40:54.195 Even going back to your comment about... 886 00:40:54.659 --> 00:40:57.161 Bumping into people and speaking Arabic. 887 00:40:57.261 --> 00:40:57.661 It just, 888 00:40:57.781 --> 00:40:59.843 it's like this warm cultural feeling. 889 00:41:00.763 --> 00:41:00.944 Yeah. 890 00:41:00.964 --> 00:41:02.885 I can connect with you on a different level. 891 00:41:02.886 --> 00:41:03.065 I mean, 892 00:41:03.425 --> 00:41:04.626 I find that myself in, 893 00:41:05.166 --> 00:41:06.007 in France and actually, 894 00:41:06.668 --> 00:41:07.028 so I'm, 895 00:41:07.328 --> 00:41:12.772 I'm from the UK and living in France and even the reverse of language. 896 00:41:14.013 --> 00:41:17.035 Sometimes I can't find an expression in 897 00:41:17.415 --> 00:41:18.536 English that 898 00:41:18.896 --> 00:41:20.597 I know exists in French. 899 00:41:20.657 --> 00:41:22.619 It's just these nuances that. 900 00:41:23.743 --> 00:41:40.275 connect us all and I think importantly the comment you made about language and accessibility so often brands and companies look about look at translation as a growth tool which of course it absolutely is you 901 00:41:40.295 --> 00:41:52.763 can't get around that but accessibility should should offer for community especially is the number one it's it's not just about growth it's it's making sure everybody is having a level playing field. 902 00:41:53.003 --> 00:41:53.163 Yeah, 903 00:41:53.604 --> 00:41:56.106 I think it's something at Weglot we're very passionate about saying. 904 00:41:56.126 --> 00:42:01.411 We have a huge amount of clients that are literally translating their website for accessibility reasons. 905 00:42:01.811 --> 00:42:09.278 You've got the United States where many of the states are required to have multiple languages on their government websites. 906 00:42:09.518 --> 00:42:10.899 It's obviously not about growth. 907 00:42:10.959 --> 00:42:17.585 It's about ensuring the community is getting the information that is important to them in their natural language. 908 00:42:18.086 --> 00:42:19.447 So we touched a little bit. 909 00:42:20.167 --> 00:42:22.950 on sort of the next chapter for Women in Tech SEO. 910 00:42:23.110 --> 00:42:28.774 But is there anything sort of more concrete that you can share with us as to what's coming next? 911 00:42:30.115 --> 00:42:30.235 So, 912 00:42:30.236 --> 00:42:30.455 I mean, 913 00:42:30.495 --> 00:42:30.916 I think we, 914 00:42:31.516 --> 00:42:31.636 yeah, 915 00:42:31.676 --> 00:42:32.897 we tend to talk about this a lot, 916 00:42:32.937 --> 00:42:34.498 like as a team. 917 00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:37.601 The long-term goal of 918 00:42:38.041 --> 00:42:42.685 WTS is for it to become redundant and for it to no longer exist. 919 00:42:43.846 --> 00:42:44.086 You know, 920 00:42:44.106 --> 00:42:45.447 the hope is right now. 921 00:42:46.023 --> 00:42:50.466 We do live in a world where we need that safe space for people of marginalized gender. 922 00:42:50.987 --> 00:43:00.033 But the more work that we are doing around our collective career goals in increasing our amplification and our education, 923 00:43:00.133 --> 00:43:01.234 our connection with one another, 924 00:43:01.834 --> 00:43:09.960 and really having that code of conduct of ours be our bread and butter and what we're made from is that down the line, 925 00:43:10.060 --> 00:43:11.501 like WTS is not needed. 926 00:43:11.941 --> 00:43:14.143 And you would absolutely feel that code of conduct. 927 00:43:14.383 --> 00:43:31.037 like across the industry as as a whole it's funny isn't it you create a community and you're the peak of success would be we no longer exist yeah and maybe to go a little bit more full circle from how we started what 928 00:43:31.137 --> 00:43:42.647 would the younger ridge would you ever have imagined publishing a book on something that you had never imagined even going into Okay. 929 00:43:43.860 --> 00:43:43.980 Yeah, 930 00:43:44.040 --> 00:43:44.160 no, 931 00:43:44.260 --> 00:43:44.480 never. 932 00:43:46.801 --> 00:43:47.802 Hardest things I've ever, 933 00:43:47.882 --> 00:43:48.522 ever worked on. 934 00:43:48.562 --> 00:43:49.962 It was like nine months of, 935 00:43:51.863 --> 00:43:52.063 yeah, 936 00:43:52.323 --> 00:43:53.204 just like constant, 937 00:43:53.244 --> 00:44:00.967 constant work and constant imposter syndrome and questioning myself and wondering if I'm the right person to be putting this together. 938 00:44:01.327 --> 00:44:01.727 And yeah, 939 00:44:01.867 --> 00:44:10.751 I am so proud of getting to the finish line because the amount of times I was going to quit throughout the process were just. 940 00:44:11.091 --> 00:44:12.532 And then when it was all done, 941 00:44:12.612 --> 00:44:13.292 all wrapped up, 942 00:44:14.452 --> 00:44:14.593 Yeah, 943 00:44:14.753 --> 00:44:17.535 probably like one of the hardest projects I've ever worked on. 944 00:44:18.916 --> 00:44:19.596 It's funny, 945 00:44:19.956 --> 00:44:21.838 the concept of imposter syndrome, 946 00:44:21.858 --> 00:44:23.539 because in reality, 947 00:44:23.659 --> 00:44:23.879 like, 948 00:44:24.139 --> 00:44:25.040 look at what you've built. 949 00:44:25.220 --> 00:44:25.680 Of course, 950 00:44:25.721 --> 00:44:28.082 you're the person that should write the book. 951 00:44:28.222 --> 00:44:29.143 But still, 952 00:44:29.203 --> 00:44:31.625 we always have that person inside our head saying, 953 00:44:31.885 --> 00:44:32.705 you're not good enough. 954 00:44:33.846 --> 00:44:35.387 You shouldn't do this. 955 00:44:35.748 --> 00:44:41.672 What would be your advice to somebody that was thinking that in maybe any aspect of life? 956 00:44:42.104 --> 00:44:43.045 I always like I always, 957 00:44:43.105 --> 00:44:44.466 always say like action first. 958 00:44:44.546 --> 00:44:46.528 I feel like when I start working on something, 959 00:44:46.529 --> 00:44:47.889 when I put the action, 960 00:44:48.109 --> 00:44:50.111 like when I just start on a project, 961 00:44:50.211 --> 00:44:50.712 like that's it. 962 00:44:50.832 --> 00:44:54.195 That's where like the motivation and the inspiration keeps going. 963 00:44:54.655 --> 00:44:55.115 It's very, 964 00:44:55.195 --> 00:45:02.502 very easy to keep pushing something in a way where you're overthinking it and you're trying to like plan the whole process and you want to get down to the detail. 965 00:45:02.962 --> 00:45:03.723 But honestly, 966 00:45:03.743 --> 00:45:07.786 exactly what I did when I first I just I put that tweet out and then I just took it from there. 967 00:45:08.227 --> 00:45:09.368 I feel like with all of... 968 00:45:10.220 --> 00:45:11.721 It was the same with the first conference. 969 00:45:11.761 --> 00:45:12.141 I was like, 970 00:45:12.161 --> 00:45:12.281 oh, 971 00:45:12.341 --> 00:45:13.602 wouldn't it be cool if we do this? 972 00:45:14.102 --> 00:45:15.182 And then you kind of like you, 973 00:45:15.983 --> 00:45:17.703 I think building in public has really, 974 00:45:17.743 --> 00:45:17.903 really, 975 00:45:17.904 --> 00:45:24.746 really helped me because it helps me kind of like hold myself accountable and then sharing what's working and what's not working. 976 00:45:25.287 --> 00:45:25.907 So yeah, 977 00:45:26.107 --> 00:45:27.608 just like taking the first step, 978 00:45:27.688 --> 00:45:28.788 taking that first action. 979 00:45:29.268 --> 00:45:36.191 How important do you think it is when you're building a community to have somebody as the face of the community, 980 00:45:36.291 --> 00:45:36.992 for example? 981 00:45:37.752 --> 00:45:38.032 You know, 982 00:45:38.192 --> 00:45:40.453 everybody knows it's you who built it. 983 00:45:41.553 --> 00:45:44.474 And you've created this genuine honesty. 984 00:45:44.934 --> 00:45:45.374 Like you say, 985 00:45:45.375 --> 00:45:46.154 the transparency. 986 00:45:46.254 --> 00:45:49.775 I love how you always publish the numbers from your conference. 987 00:45:51.276 --> 00:45:51.476 You know, 988 00:45:51.477 --> 00:45:54.057 if there's something you can take from a brand, 989 00:45:54.297 --> 00:45:54.717 a company, 990 00:45:54.737 --> 00:45:56.037 a brand could take from that. 991 00:45:56.297 --> 00:45:56.537 I mean, 992 00:45:56.577 --> 00:45:59.098 I think there's definitely both like good and bad about it. 993 00:45:59.318 --> 00:46:06.480 Like the good is I would say the majority of partners and sponsors who come on board are doing so because 994 00:46:06.720 --> 00:46:11.682 they get to know me and they get to see my and understand my passion and know what I'm building. 995 00:46:12.122 --> 00:46:16.524 But then probably the worry is me becoming like the single point of failure. 996 00:46:16.984 --> 00:46:22.987 But I do feel like I've worked a lot on that by having such a brilliant team around me, 997 00:46:23.227 --> 00:46:23.927 like we're lean, 998 00:46:24.007 --> 00:46:24.667 but we're mighty. 999 00:46:25.808 --> 00:46:28.749 And making sure that 1000 00:46:29.509 --> 00:46:30.189 I do let go. 1001 00:46:31.310 --> 00:46:32.790 And yeah, 1002 00:46:32.871 --> 00:46:36.232 I'm not like in control of everything and I'm not being a blocker. 1003 00:46:36.716 --> 00:46:40.277 And a lot of the work that we do with WTS is amplify our members. 1004 00:46:40.777 --> 00:46:40.897 So, 1005 00:46:41.157 --> 00:46:41.397 you know, 1006 00:46:41.497 --> 00:46:41.978 no members, 1007 00:46:41.998 --> 00:46:42.658 no community. 1008 00:46:42.818 --> 00:46:43.578 And we know that very, 1009 00:46:43.598 --> 00:46:43.998 very well. 1010 00:46:44.338 --> 00:46:47.479 So what can we do to so much of, 1011 00:46:47.919 --> 00:46:48.159 I mean, 1012 00:46:48.259 --> 00:46:49.340 our conferences, 1013 00:46:49.540 --> 00:46:52.561 it's like during the day on socials, 1014 00:46:53.041 --> 00:46:55.842 hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of user generated content. 1015 00:46:55.882 --> 00:46:57.562 It's not even us posting. 1016 00:46:57.722 --> 00:46:59.143 It's a lot of our members posting, 1017 00:46:59.263 --> 00:47:00.243 speaking on our behalf. 1018 00:47:01.543 --> 00:47:02.303 And to this day, 1019 00:47:02.383 --> 00:47:04.084 the majority of new members who join. 1020 00:47:04.404 --> 00:47:05.445 It's because they heard about it. 1021 00:47:05.446 --> 00:47:06.586 They heard about it from a colleague. 1022 00:47:06.587 --> 00:47:09.708 They heard about it from someone who shared a LinkedIn post. 1023 00:47:10.028 --> 00:47:11.429 They heard about it from their manager. 1024 00:47:11.889 --> 00:47:15.412 And it's not me going and speaking to them directly. 1025 00:47:16.312 --> 00:47:16.452 Yeah, 1026 00:47:16.512 --> 00:47:16.792 Arish, 1027 00:47:16.812 --> 00:47:19.174 thank you so much again for joining me today. 1028 00:47:19.574 --> 00:47:29.101 It was really insightful to see both the sort of international aspect of growing community and how you've done it all single-handedly and obviously now built an amazing team. 1029 00:47:29.681 --> 00:47:32.483 And congrats on your book as well. 1030 00:47:33.184 --> 00:47:33.624 Thank you. 1031 00:47:34.456 --> 00:47:34.596 Yeah, 1032 00:47:34.696 --> 00:47:35.837 thank you so much for having me. 1033 00:47:36.017 --> 00:47:37.698 And just a massive thanks to WeGlow. 1034 00:47:38.138 --> 00:47:40.520 Like you've been partners for a very, 1035 00:47:40.560 --> 00:47:42.621 very long time and you've always supported our initiatives. 1036 00:47:42.701 --> 00:47:49.025 And I feel like you truly understand and grasp community because you engage in it as members. 1037 00:47:49.725 --> 00:47:49.845 So, 1038 00:47:50.085 --> 00:47:50.205 yeah, 1039 00:47:50.365 --> 00:47:51.766 I just really appreciate all the support. 1040 00:47:52.627 --> 00:47:52.787 Well, 1041 00:47:52.867 --> 00:47:53.307 thank you. 1042 00:47:53.308 --> 00:47:54.428 That's lovely to hear. 1043 00:47:55.929 --> 00:47:57.530 So another fabulous conversation, 1044 00:47:57.570 --> 00:48:01.072 and I think a few of the key points we can get out of that one is that. 1045 00:48:01.860 --> 00:48:04.101 Don't just start a community for no reason. 1046 00:48:04.441 --> 00:48:06.042 Find if there's really a need. 1047 00:48:06.242 --> 00:48:08.883 Join other communities that have similar themes. 1048 00:48:09.403 --> 00:48:10.183 Chat to people, 1049 00:48:10.263 --> 00:48:11.184 engage with people, 1050 00:48:11.444 --> 00:48:13.245 build the feedback that you're looking for. 1051 00:48:14.225 --> 00:48:16.286 Another great point is code of conduct. 1052 00:48:16.486 --> 00:48:18.087 I hadn't actually appreciated that, 1053 00:48:18.207 --> 00:48:18.347 that, 1054 00:48:18.367 --> 00:48:18.607 you know, 1055 00:48:18.667 --> 00:48:20.248 these are communities online. 1056 00:48:21.128 --> 00:48:23.509 They have the tendency to go a bit wild. 1057 00:48:24.109 --> 00:48:25.730 Having a code of conduct in place. 1058 00:48:25.770 --> 00:48:28.331 I think that's something that we'd probably all likely forget, 1059 00:48:28.771 --> 00:48:30.372 even though for someone as... 1060 00:48:31.352 --> 00:48:47.187 experienced as a reach she felt that it was the number one priority it's really important to have that emphasis on what do you stand for when you're building these communities and thirdly i think in the age of ai which we obviously clearly cannot avoid in any of our podcast chats 1061 00:48:48.257 --> 00:48:57.722 community building is just going to continue to play center stage as we all search for that personalization that we're really missing and removing from our day-to-day lives. 1062 00:48:58.803 --> 00:49:00.083 If you enjoyed this episode, 1063 00:49:00.183 --> 00:49:05.606 you can follow Areej on LinkedIn and we'll include all the relevant links and resources in the show notes. 1064 00:49:06.487 --> 00:49:07.187 As we mentioned, 1065 00:49:07.327 --> 00:49:10.909 Areej has also recently published her book on community building. 1066 00:49:10.989 --> 00:49:15.572 So definitely worth checking out if you want to go deeper into everything we've spoken about today. 1067 00:49:16.532 --> 00:49:17.813 And if you liked this episode, 1068 00:49:18.201 --> 00:49:25.080 Don't forget to subscribe and stay tuned for our next conversation with another marketer or leader scaling across markets. 1069 00:49:25.802 --> 00:49:26.545 See you next time.