WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.342 We don't have ethical banks. 2 00:00:01.742 --> 00:00:05.164 The banks don't want to finance energy communities. 3 00:00:05.645 --> 00:00:07.367 We don't have too many energy communities. 4 00:00:07.387 --> 00:00:09.930 They find it anyway business risky. 5 00:00:11.070 --> 00:00:15.898 And the funding from the European Union are very limited, 6 00:00:16.422 --> 00:00:17.844 almost inexistent. 7 00:00:18.562 --> 00:00:22.438 But we had a lot of achievement with this project. 8 00:00:22.703 --> 00:00:24.984 We had some advocacy group to the 9 00:00:25.484 --> 00:00:27.094 Ministry of Energy level. 10 00:00:27.416 --> 00:00:29.398 So we asked for funding, 11 00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:30.159 we asked for... 12 00:00:31.261 --> 00:00:36.585 We collaborated with the ethical bank we have to create a social fund for energy communities. 13 00:00:37.265 --> 00:00:43.273 We had a small project realized by our community in one kindergarten, 14 00:00:43.374 --> 00:00:44.812 and we want to scale this up. 15 00:00:48.890 --> 00:00:50.421 The energy transition is happening, 16 00:00:50.702 --> 00:00:51.624 but is it fair? 17 00:00:52.202 --> 00:00:54.062 Is it working for people like you and me, 18 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:56.671 or just for big market players? 19 00:00:57.800 --> 00:00:58.780 Welcome to Energ'ethic. 20 00:00:59.040 --> 00:00:59.920 I am Marine Cornelis, 21 00:01:00.041 --> 00:01:02.063 an expert in energy and climate policies, 22 00:01:02.403 --> 00:01:05.320 and I bring you the voices shaping our energy future. 23 00:01:06.106 --> 00:01:06.543 Activists, 24 00:01:06.559 --> 00:01:07.160 scientists, 25 00:01:07.262 --> 00:01:08.004 policymakers, 26 00:01:08.363 --> 00:01:10.379 the real people making real change, 27 00:01:10.981 --> 00:01:12.363 often against the odds. 28 00:01:13.301 --> 00:01:13.621 Here, 29 00:01:13.824 --> 00:01:16.043 we do not settle for surface-level takes. 30 00:01:16.512 --> 00:01:17.949 We dig into the challenges, 31 00:01:18.090 --> 00:01:18.887 the solutions, 32 00:01:19.028 --> 00:01:22.340 and the lessons that do not always make the headlines. 33 00:01:23.043 --> 00:01:23.793 And in doing so, 34 00:01:24.293 --> 00:01:26.293 we rediscover something vital. 35 00:01:26.728 --> 00:01:28.930 Our ability to trust in institutions, 36 00:01:29.090 --> 00:01:30.072 to believe in change, 37 00:01:30.393 --> 00:01:33.014 and to reclaim our power to act. 38 00:01:33.475 --> 00:01:35.275 Because if we want just resilience, 39 00:01:35.596 --> 00:01:36.916 if we want just transition, 40 00:01:37.338 --> 00:01:40.221 we need to understand what it takes to make it happen. 41 00:01:40.783 --> 00:01:41.619 And more importantly, 42 00:01:42.065 --> 00:01:43.900 we need to believe that we can. 43 00:01:44.619 --> 00:01:45.494 Let's get into it. 44 00:01:47.666 --> 00:01:49.338 When we talk about innovation, 45 00:01:49.494 --> 00:01:51.447 we often picture technology. 46 00:01:52.057 --> 00:01:52.666 New apps, 47 00:01:52.869 --> 00:01:53.416 new grids, 48 00:01:53.557 --> 00:01:54.197 new devices. 49 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:57.923 But the most innovative technology we have is collective action. 50 00:01:59.046 --> 00:01:59.604 Three years ago, 51 00:02:00.026 --> 00:02:03.933 a group of communities across Europe came together with one goal. 52 00:02:05.011 --> 00:02:08.292 To make the energy transition truly theirs, 53 00:02:08.870 --> 00:02:09.839 also financially. 54 00:02:10.714 --> 00:02:11.901 And the ACCE project, 55 00:02:12.183 --> 00:02:13.917 Access to Capital for Community Energy, 56 00:02:14.292 --> 00:02:17.183 gave them the financial tools to do it. 57 00:02:18.276 --> 00:02:19.448 From Romania to Belgium, 58 00:02:19.823 --> 00:02:21.229 from France to Croatia, 59 00:02:21.839 --> 00:02:23.214 citizens learned how 60 00:02:23.832 --> 00:02:26.073 to finance their own energy future. 61 00:02:27.692 --> 00:02:29.252 They build solar cooperatives, 62 00:02:29.534 --> 00:02:30.893 community heating funds, 63 00:02:31.135 --> 00:02:33.170 and partnerships with ethical banks. 64 00:02:34.334 --> 00:02:38.217 What they discovered goes far beyond kilowatts. 65 00:02:39.616 --> 00:02:41.741 When people pool their resources, 66 00:02:42.163 --> 00:02:43.209 they also build trust, 67 00:02:43.522 --> 00:02:44.256 confidence, 68 00:02:44.475 --> 00:02:47.663 and also a shared sense of power, 69 00:02:48.256 --> 00:02:51.944 the kind that lights up communities as much as home. 70 00:02:53.440 --> 00:02:54.861 In this special episode of 71 00:02:55.221 --> 00:02:59.520 Energetic, recorded live at the ACE closing event, 72 00:03:00.442 --> 00:03:03.160 we hear from the people who made it happen. 73 00:03:04.106 --> 00:03:05.426 European policymakers, 74 00:03:05.723 --> 00:03:06.801 local pioneers, 75 00:03:07.082 --> 00:03:11.465 and cooperative leaders who are turning finance into a tool for democracy. 76 00:03:13.949 --> 00:03:14.418 Welcome, 77 00:03:14.762 --> 00:03:17.371 my name is Marine Cornelis and I'm going to be your moderator, 78 00:03:17.449 --> 00:03:18.403 your host today. 79 00:03:19.309 --> 00:03:19.871 Three years ago, 80 00:03:20.028 --> 00:03:21.059 the ACCE project, 81 00:03:21.434 --> 00:03:22.106 ACE standing for... 82 00:03:22.268 --> 00:03:24.270 access to capital for community energy, 83 00:03:24.991 --> 00:03:33.560 began with a simple but mighty idea to give energy communities the financial tools they needed to grow. 84 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:35.224 Across Europe, 85 00:03:35.419 --> 00:03:38.458 many citizen-led projects had the ideas, 86 00:03:38.927 --> 00:03:39.505 the energy, 87 00:03:39.880 --> 00:03:40.520 the commitment, 88 00:03:40.786 --> 00:03:44.770 but what they lacked was the financial capital. 89 00:03:45.989 --> 00:03:46.489 Since then, 90 00:03:46.786 --> 00:03:47.427 fast forward, 91 00:03:47.989 --> 00:03:50.536 ACCE has walked a remarkable path. 92 00:03:51.100 --> 00:03:51.801 In Croatia, 93 00:03:52.421 --> 00:03:52.901 Romania, 94 00:03:53.343 --> 00:03:53.763 Germany, 95 00:03:54.183 --> 00:03:54.602 Spain, 96 00:03:55.243 --> 00:03:56.645 Belgium and the Netherlands, 97 00:03:56.727 --> 00:03:58.349 I hope I'm not forgetting anyone, 98 00:03:58.970 --> 00:04:02.352 communities have tested new financial models. 99 00:04:02.688 --> 00:04:06.157 They have created rooftop solar collectives, 100 00:04:06.571 --> 00:04:08.181 community heating funds, 101 00:04:08.696 --> 00:04:12.399 partnerships with ethical banks and bulk procurement schemes. 102 00:04:13.040 --> 00:04:19.165 And these experiences have shown the strength and the creativity of citizen financing. 103 00:04:20.140 --> 00:04:24.705 They have also shown that when people pool their resources, 104 00:04:25.165 --> 00:04:28.091 they unlock way more than clean electrons. 105 00:04:28.810 --> 00:04:30.466 They unlock resilience, 106 00:04:30.732 --> 00:04:31.794 they unlock trust, 107 00:04:32.076 --> 00:04:38.341 and they unlock also shared prosperity within their own regions and abroad. 108 00:04:40.607 --> 00:04:44.841 The ACE journey has brought together communities from Croatia to Belgium. 109 00:04:45.638 --> 00:04:49.169 What started as an experiment became a movement. 110 00:04:50.116 --> 00:04:53.219 Let's hear how Europe's support helped them work. 111 00:04:55.080 --> 00:04:58.326 We have a topic which is dedicated to the energy transition program. 112 00:04:58.327 --> 00:05:01.545 We have a topic which is dedicated to supporting energy communities. 113 00:05:01.584 --> 00:05:02.248 At the moment, 114 00:05:02.310 --> 00:05:02.631 we have 115 00:05:03.209 --> 00:05:04.428 16 projects ongoing. 116 00:05:04.568 --> 00:05:09.514 So I don't think I have time to share all the achievements of all these 16 projects. 117 00:05:09.982 --> 00:05:16.217 And I think we just wanted to share with you some approaches and some interesting elements for three of them, 118 00:05:16.498 --> 00:05:17.529 which have just ended. 119 00:05:18.311 --> 00:05:20.593 And the first one is called Tandems, 120 00:05:21.054 --> 00:05:24.857 and it has a very interesting peer-to-peer approach. 121 00:05:24.939 --> 00:05:30.544 So energy communities across borders work in Tandems to develop new business models. 122 00:05:30.584 --> 00:05:36.787 So that also shows for us the added value of cross-border cooperation. 123 00:05:37.615 --> 00:05:39.568 We have a project which is called Connect Heat, 124 00:05:40.099 --> 00:05:42.880 which has worked on community heating, 125 00:05:42.974 --> 00:05:46.505 which is a sector which is emerging and very important for... 126 00:05:46.895 --> 00:05:49.257 the decarbonization of an energy system. 127 00:05:50.099 --> 00:05:53.503 And another example is the project 128 00:05:54.163 --> 00:05:54.960 Life Loop, 129 00:05:55.382 --> 00:06:00.366 which developed a community energy certification scheme for municipalities. 130 00:06:00.390 --> 00:06:02.413 So municipalities can sign a charter, 131 00:06:02.929 --> 00:06:03.851 can get trained, 132 00:06:04.788 --> 00:06:11.616 and then they are trained in how to develop and analytical entities and develop follow-up actions. 133 00:06:13.679 --> 00:06:16.822 That was Michele Sansoni from the European Climate, 134 00:06:17.023 --> 00:06:19.665 Infrastructure and Environment Executive Agency, 135 00:06:19.865 --> 00:06:20.404 or CINEA. 136 00:06:21.107 --> 00:06:27.536 He reminded us that the LIFE program has become the seedbed of a new generation of energy communities. 137 00:06:29.693 --> 00:06:32.411 I want to highlight three trends here. 138 00:06:32.521 --> 00:06:33.677 So one is growth, 139 00:06:34.318 --> 00:06:37.365 one is maturation and one is potential. 140 00:06:38.005 --> 00:06:38.943 When you look at growth, 141 00:06:39.099 --> 00:06:41.380 only looking at our own network today, 142 00:06:41.880 --> 00:06:43.130 RESCOOP.EU represents 143 00:06:43.263 --> 00:06:52.211 2 million citizens and all together they participate in energy projects in 2500 energy communities across Europe. 144 00:06:52.851 --> 00:06:56.914 I started working at Rest.EPU I think eight years ago and 145 00:06:57.336 --> 00:07:10.969 I've definitely seen growth and there is in 2019 for the first time this was at European level acknowledged as a legal concept and ever since we have been seeing new initiatives popping up we have been seeing 146 00:07:11.779 --> 00:07:13.582 More and more energy communities, 147 00:07:13.882 --> 00:07:15.562 and it's not only growing in numbers, 148 00:07:15.765 --> 00:07:16.125 I think, 149 00:07:16.183 --> 00:07:20.468 but it's also growing in terms of recognition of their value. 150 00:07:21.211 --> 00:07:24.429 Energy communities are not only democratizing energy, 151 00:07:25.031 --> 00:07:26.812 but they also have the potential, 152 00:07:27.218 --> 00:07:31.062 they reduce dependence on important fossil fuels. 153 00:07:31.265 --> 00:07:35.625 And I think that's very relevant in the context of today. 154 00:07:36.187 --> 00:07:36.968 And by doing so, 155 00:07:37.125 --> 00:07:40.562 they really have the power to strengthen Europe's energy. 156 00:07:41.031 --> 00:07:41.572 security. 157 00:07:41.792 --> 00:07:42.773 So it's more about, 158 00:07:42.833 --> 00:07:44.775 so it's about energy communities, 159 00:07:44.857 --> 00:07:46.458 about social fabric creation, 160 00:07:46.755 --> 00:07:48.279 but it's also about that aspect, 161 00:07:48.318 --> 00:07:53.060 like taking part in the energy transition and therefore contributing to energy security. 162 00:07:53.865 --> 00:07:56.349 Second trend I wanted to highlight is maturation. 163 00:07:56.466 --> 00:07:57.240 So what we see, 164 00:07:58.115 --> 00:08:02.255 and that is something I've very nicely observed in the ACE project, 165 00:08:02.833 --> 00:08:05.412 there is this constant pattern of resilience, 166 00:08:05.474 --> 00:08:05.818 growth, 167 00:08:06.255 --> 00:08:07.662 but also getting more mature. 168 00:08:08.021 --> 00:08:08.818 So the movement 169 00:08:09.251 --> 00:08:15.276 I think often CASE and Camidia's story is a great one of some very enthusiastic, 170 00:08:15.479 --> 00:08:17.659 ambitious people coming together. 171 00:08:17.862 --> 00:08:22.081 Often it starts with a bunch of volunteers that are setting up their first project. 172 00:08:23.026 --> 00:08:25.049 It's usually a solar PV project. 173 00:08:25.463 --> 00:08:26.323 And then as we go, 174 00:08:26.463 --> 00:08:28.807 and that is something we can see throughout Europe, 175 00:08:29.213 --> 00:08:30.979 you see more and more initiatives popping up. 176 00:08:31.167 --> 00:08:33.932 They look at this first example, 177 00:08:33.979 --> 00:08:35.276 this pioneer example. 178 00:08:35.604 --> 00:08:38.338 They get inspired and they set up their own projects. 179 00:08:38.542 --> 00:08:38.745 and 180 00:08:38.943 --> 00:08:47.649 So there's more and more and there's this growing network of energy communities that is not only at some point participating in small scale solar projects, 181 00:08:47.664 --> 00:08:54.750 but we're also talking about energy communities participating in large scale industrial size projects like wind, 182 00:08:54.883 --> 00:08:55.633 offshore wind, 183 00:08:56.008 --> 00:08:56.602 for example, 184 00:08:56.664 --> 00:08:57.367 district heating. 185 00:08:57.774 --> 00:09:00.789 And we had the diversity covered inside of our consortium. 186 00:09:01.133 --> 00:09:06.649 So that was really nice so that we could learn from best practices and exchange among ourselves. 187 00:09:07.247 --> 00:09:08.188 It even goes further. 188 00:09:08.288 --> 00:09:10.812 We see when you look at the development of the movement, 189 00:09:10.890 --> 00:09:13.855 there is this point where you get more and more energy communities, 190 00:09:13.894 --> 00:09:17.815 they're getting more mature and they're setting up secondary structures. 191 00:09:17.839 --> 00:09:19.980 So they are setting up their support structures, 192 00:09:20.300 --> 00:09:21.339 their federations. 193 00:09:21.980 --> 00:09:23.159 It happened in the Netherlands, 194 00:09:23.198 --> 00:09:25.698 we had part and Guisan was part of the project, 195 00:09:25.808 --> 00:09:25.933 in 196 00:09:26.401 --> 00:09:27.651 France, Energy Partagé. 197 00:09:28.167 --> 00:09:29.995 And what you see there is a huge potential there. 198 00:09:30.417 --> 00:09:33.198 By having those support structures they can actually, 199 00:09:33.386 --> 00:09:35.261 and now I'm bringing it to the project, 200 00:09:35.747 --> 00:09:37.227 They can help with services, 201 00:09:37.307 --> 00:09:41.268 delivering services and access to finance or improving access to finance. 202 00:09:41.768 --> 00:09:47.850 It happens to be a really good service that can be provided by those secondary structures. 203 00:09:48.631 --> 00:09:50.209 The last thing I want to say is potential. 204 00:09:50.670 --> 00:09:54.038 So the research shows that there is huge potential. 205 00:09:54.475 --> 00:09:56.944 There is a huge untapped potential we have to improve. 206 00:09:57.413 --> 00:09:57.850 But still, 207 00:09:58.788 --> 00:10:00.569 there is research showing that 50% 208 00:10:02.059 --> 00:10:02.720 Of citizens, 209 00:10:02.780 --> 00:10:07.204 European citizens could be producing their own electricity by 2015. 210 00:10:07.224 --> 00:10:09.228 And that's covering more or less 45% 211 00:10:09.548 --> 00:10:11.091 of the EU's energy demand. 212 00:10:11.169 --> 00:10:11.747 That's huge. 213 00:10:11.849 --> 00:10:12.591 We're not there yet. 214 00:10:12.606 --> 00:10:14.528 So there is untapped potential. 215 00:10:15.192 --> 00:10:18.700 And I want to bring in one more thing that we are seeing a little bit of a paradox. 216 00:10:19.899 --> 00:10:27.261 There's also EU shows that citizens could contribute 176 billion euros to the energy transition. 217 00:10:27.980 --> 00:10:31.222 But the paradox is somehow the energy projects, 218 00:10:31.223 --> 00:10:32.425 the local energy communities, 219 00:10:32.426 --> 00:10:34.144 they struggle access finance. 220 00:10:34.145 --> 00:10:36.495 So we need to really improve that. 221 00:10:36.620 --> 00:10:38.980 And that's what we have been trying to do in this project. 222 00:10:39.730 --> 00:10:40.198 As I said, 223 00:10:40.261 --> 00:10:46.198 learning from best practices and testing how that could be replicated in other contexts. 224 00:10:46.667 --> 00:10:48.409 really definitely those three things growth, 225 00:10:48.888 --> 00:10:51.212 maturization and also attention. 226 00:10:51.791 --> 00:11:02.966 I think we need ongoing support from the EU level but also from the national level and local level and I think if there is one thing that shows the success of the facility, 227 00:11:03.248 --> 00:11:03.966 I'm going to repeat, 228 00:11:03.998 --> 00:11:07.951 we received over 700 applications only in the first round, 229 00:11:08.482 --> 00:11:12.185 it shows that there is a lot of of appetites on the ground. 230 00:11:12.435 --> 00:11:13.107 There's a lot of... 231 00:11:14.199 --> 00:11:15.120 energy communities, 232 00:11:15.161 --> 00:11:18.543 groups of citizens that want to take part in the energy transition. 233 00:11:18.582 --> 00:11:19.446 So that's a fact, 234 00:11:19.465 --> 00:11:20.407 that's what this proves, 235 00:11:20.426 --> 00:11:21.668 that's what we have been observing. 236 00:11:22.309 --> 00:11:27.653 We need to make sure that we're not only having these EU programs, 237 00:11:27.654 --> 00:11:29.856 we also need to make sure that we get the money to the ground, 238 00:11:30.575 --> 00:11:34.903 making sure that it can really be used for also the development of, 239 00:11:35.575 --> 00:11:36.621 especially at the beginning, 240 00:11:36.637 --> 00:11:38.340 and this is one of the learns of the project, 241 00:11:38.387 --> 00:11:42.512 that there is a cycle of phases in which an energy community project 242 00:11:43.331 --> 00:11:47.356 goes and supporting this first phase is really, 243 00:11:47.957 --> 00:11:48.778 really important. 244 00:11:49.219 --> 00:11:50.477 And this was Tara Tachle, 245 00:11:50.578 --> 00:11:52.539 the product manager of ACE. 246 00:11:54.524 --> 00:11:56.266 So Europe is laying the foundation, 247 00:11:56.547 --> 00:12:00.328 but what does it look like when that support reaches the ground? 248 00:12:00.735 --> 00:12:01.110 For that, 249 00:12:01.266 --> 00:12:03.891 we travel to Romania with Camelia Sava. 250 00:12:06.266 --> 00:12:08.469 Little knowledge about energy communities, 251 00:12:08.563 --> 00:12:10.297 about financing energy communities, 252 00:12:10.719 --> 00:12:11.016 none. 253 00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:14.300 When this project started, 254 00:12:15.160 --> 00:12:17.400 I felt a bit overwhelmed, 255 00:12:17.701 --> 00:12:17.920 but 256 00:12:19.061 --> 00:12:22.264 I have an amazing team here in ACE Project, 257 00:12:22.561 --> 00:12:23.818 and thank you for that. 258 00:12:24.264 --> 00:12:28.326 They helped us to overcome all the challenges we had, 259 00:12:28.420 --> 00:12:30.318 because we have a lot of challenges. 260 00:12:30.443 --> 00:12:35.725 We don't have legislation proper for energy communities for financing at all. 261 00:12:36.709 --> 00:12:40.600 We missed a lot of other institutions which our colleagues have. 262 00:12:40.990 --> 00:12:41.428 We don't have. 263 00:12:41.627 --> 00:12:42.348 ethical banks, 264 00:12:42.868 --> 00:12:44.991 we have just one or two maximum. 265 00:12:45.913 --> 00:12:49.315 The banks don't want to finance energy communities. 266 00:12:49.815 --> 00:12:51.518 We don't have too many energy communities. 267 00:12:51.557 --> 00:13:00.065 They find it anyway business risky and the funding from European Union are very limited, 268 00:13:00.581 --> 00:13:01.987 almost inexistent. 269 00:13:02.706 --> 00:13:09.112 But starting in 2022 we had a lot of achievement with this project. 270 00:13:09.378 --> 00:13:09.768 We had 271 00:13:10.519 --> 00:13:11.619 some advocacy group to the 272 00:13:12.100 --> 00:13:13.740 Ministry of Energy level. 273 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:16.059 So we asked for funding. 274 00:13:16.180 --> 00:13:16.820 We asked for... 275 00:13:17.922 --> 00:13:23.238 We collaborate with the ethical bank we have to create a social fund for energy communities. 276 00:13:24.160 --> 00:13:33.020 We started and we had a small project realized by our community in one kindergarten and we want to scale this up. 277 00:13:34.926 --> 00:13:39.145 Camelia's story shows the courage it takes to be the first. 278 00:13:40.483 --> 00:13:41.324 No Icicle Bank, 279 00:13:41.664 --> 00:13:42.705 no Taylor Glows, 280 00:13:43.125 --> 00:13:45.988 yet a team that started anyway. 281 00:13:46.988 --> 00:13:47.652 The result? 282 00:13:48.109 --> 00:13:49.254 A new advocacy group, 283 00:13:49.590 --> 00:13:55.254 new funding models and a community that now believes it can own its own transition. 284 00:13:57.566 --> 00:14:03.644 It's very difficult and they're not experienced and they don't know how the diligence works and they don't know how interest works or whatnot. 285 00:14:04.191 --> 00:14:05.472 So as a federation, 286 00:14:06.129 --> 00:14:07.144 we can take their role. 287 00:14:07.355 --> 00:14:09.217 Just having a team of four or five people, 288 00:14:09.438 --> 00:14:12.940 we can reach a lot by being that sort of intermediary, 289 00:14:13.482 --> 00:14:14.182 doing the language, 290 00:14:14.400 --> 00:14:14.682 you know, 291 00:14:14.764 --> 00:14:16.365 translating from one site to another. 292 00:14:16.787 --> 00:14:18.529 And you need time to build it up. 293 00:14:18.982 --> 00:14:21.092 But that's what we could do with sort of Bastic. 294 00:14:21.412 --> 00:14:21.568 Well, 295 00:14:21.607 --> 00:14:24.998 we've been in finance, 296 00:14:24.999 --> 00:14:26.889 doing financing quite a few years now. 297 00:14:27.373 --> 00:14:32.873 The main challenge is how to optimize a SaaS in a way that is both... 298 00:14:33.147 --> 00:14:34.328 useful for the financiers. 299 00:14:34.408 --> 00:14:35.870 It's simple enough for the financiers. 300 00:14:35.890 --> 00:14:37.612 They don't have to do the daily maintenance or whatnot, 301 00:14:38.030 --> 00:14:41.077 but also for it to be simple enough for energy communities, 302 00:14:41.437 --> 00:14:44.898 because the first time energy communities do a project, 303 00:14:45.319 --> 00:14:46.421 they need time to learn, 304 00:14:46.538 --> 00:14:47.444 they need time to grow, 305 00:14:48.101 --> 00:14:50.898 and traditional financial mechanisms don't give you that space. 306 00:14:50.991 --> 00:14:53.351 It has to be good in one go, 307 00:14:53.632 --> 00:14:53.960 correct, 308 00:14:54.163 --> 00:14:54.554 that's it. 309 00:14:55.007 --> 00:14:58.538 So we need to create room to grow for energy communities within ourselves, 310 00:14:59.194 --> 00:15:00.491 and I think we've done that quite well, 311 00:15:01.101 --> 00:15:02.710 but it takes more than just financing. 312 00:15:03.139 --> 00:15:04.299 It's also knowledge sharing, 313 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:05.340 capacity building, 314 00:15:05.699 --> 00:15:06.600 building the network, 315 00:15:07.041 --> 00:15:10.420 helping them if they need it with project development and whatnot. 316 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:13.565 So you need to build a lot more than just the financing infrastructure. 317 00:15:14.002 --> 00:15:16.065 And I think if you talk to a bank, 318 00:15:16.299 --> 00:15:18.065 that's something that's hard to understand. 319 00:15:18.385 --> 00:15:18.799 And also, 320 00:15:19.690 --> 00:15:24.440 we have multiple chefs that you can go for development and then for a realization load, 321 00:15:24.783 --> 00:15:26.158 hoping it's suited for a guarantee. 322 00:15:26.611 --> 00:15:27.518 We do help them. 323 00:15:27.565 --> 00:15:29.143 We do also expect them to grow. 324 00:15:29.486 --> 00:15:31.830 So in their first pre-development phase, 325 00:15:32.167 --> 00:15:34.069 We can help them a lot with the application. 326 00:15:34.509 --> 00:15:35.050 We call them, 327 00:15:35.070 --> 00:15:35.390 you know, 328 00:15:35.509 --> 00:15:36.050 do you need help? 329 00:15:36.349 --> 00:15:38.755 But when it comes to flood to close, 330 00:15:39.076 --> 00:15:42.435 we expect it and we see that they do it almost right, 331 00:15:42.537 --> 00:15:42.974 right away. 332 00:15:43.060 --> 00:15:43.294 You know, 333 00:15:43.295 --> 00:15:44.802 they call us for a few details, 334 00:15:44.841 --> 00:15:47.662 but they don't need extensive help anymore. 335 00:15:48.005 --> 00:15:48.685 They understood it. 336 00:15:48.966 --> 00:15:50.044 And that takes a few years. 337 00:15:50.685 --> 00:15:50.966 But we, 338 00:15:51.185 --> 00:15:52.810 as a federation of energy communities, 339 00:15:53.341 --> 00:15:55.123 it's in our interest to help them with that. 340 00:15:55.513 --> 00:15:57.373 Because their products get better, 341 00:15:57.826 --> 00:15:58.919 but if their products get better... 342 00:15:59.783 --> 00:16:00.664 The risk reduces, 343 00:16:00.744 --> 00:16:01.545 financial gets happy, 344 00:16:01.645 --> 00:16:04.649 so we find a sweet spot of intermediaries. 345 00:16:05.047 --> 00:16:05.629 And I think that's, 346 00:16:06.430 --> 00:16:08.129 I don't know which countries you almost do it. 347 00:16:08.231 --> 00:16:09.856 I think that's challenging some countries. 348 00:16:10.410 --> 00:16:12.434 You need to not only work in financing, 349 00:16:12.512 --> 00:16:15.098 you need to work at building these federations at the same time. 350 00:16:15.832 --> 00:16:17.801 And then if you do that both in Sandbam, 351 00:16:17.973 --> 00:16:19.067 I think you can really, 352 00:16:19.207 --> 00:16:20.426 you'll be really excited about the issue. 353 00:16:21.098 --> 00:16:24.067 And that was Merel Oldenburg from Energy Samen. 354 00:16:24.722 --> 00:16:25.723 in the Netherlands. 355 00:16:27.724 --> 00:16:31.310 Financing the transition is not just about numbers, 356 00:16:31.568 --> 00:16:34.115 it's about translation between languages, 357 00:16:34.271 --> 00:16:35.849 interests and values. 358 00:16:36.553 --> 00:16:42.553 Federations like Energie Partagée or the Belgian Interpretives are the interpreters between citizens and bankers. 359 00:16:44.896 --> 00:16:47.912 The best building and financing goes hand in hand. 360 00:16:48.459 --> 00:16:49.928 If you just provide financing, 361 00:16:50.365 --> 00:16:52.896 you're not going to reach your beneficiaries. 362 00:16:53.406 --> 00:16:59.653 And you're not going to be able to use the financing that you offer because they won't have capacity enough. 363 00:17:00.274 --> 00:17:00.711 So that's, 364 00:17:00.735 --> 00:17:01.153 of course, 365 00:17:01.154 --> 00:17:02.696 a very important lesson, 366 00:17:04.399 --> 00:17:05.860 capacity building and financing. 367 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:08.844 Another one is the role of secondary structure, 368 00:17:08.860 --> 00:17:09.469 that we call it. 369 00:17:09.470 --> 00:17:09.579 So, 370 00:17:09.625 --> 00:17:10.110 for instance, 371 00:17:10.111 --> 00:17:10.688 for the ratios, 372 00:17:10.719 --> 00:17:11.657 like a non-share-partager, 373 00:17:12.282 --> 00:17:15.610 because we know our members and we have a direct access to them. 374 00:17:16.188 --> 00:17:18.938 So this way we can pull projects together, 375 00:17:19.188 --> 00:17:20.454 we can mitigate risks, 376 00:17:20.938 --> 00:17:22.047 and we can really... 377 00:17:22.406 --> 00:17:23.727 Gets the money to the ground. 378 00:17:24.107 --> 00:17:27.431 And that was Suzanne Renard from Energy Partagée in France. 379 00:17:29.451 --> 00:17:29.955 In the UK, 380 00:17:30.474 --> 00:17:33.935 solidarity travels through wind turbines and school roofs. 381 00:17:34.521 --> 00:17:39.764 Projects like Energy for All show how citizen energy delivers not only power, 382 00:17:40.201 --> 00:17:40.920 but purpose. 383 00:17:43.014 --> 00:17:47.967 We are a network of 35 independent energy cooperatives. 384 00:17:48.389 --> 00:17:50.592 We've got like 19,000 members. 385 00:17:51.138 --> 00:17:54.820 Together we've raised about a hundred million pounds. 386 00:17:55.378 --> 00:17:56.441 We've got different projects. 387 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:05.261 We've got a network of a hundred schools where the solar panels power the schools and use that to provide a return. 388 00:18:05.722 --> 00:18:08.589 But we also use that for an education program. 389 00:18:09.027 --> 00:18:10.261 Or look at Westmill Solar. 390 00:18:10.324 --> 00:18:10.745 We've had 391 00:18:11.245 --> 00:18:12.480 Westmill Solar and Wind. 392 00:18:12.558 --> 00:18:19.167 We've had 17 and a half thousand visitors with local schools nail the turbines. 393 00:18:19.678 --> 00:18:22.981 We've given over a million pounds in community benefits. 394 00:18:23.901 --> 00:18:29.827 So from insulating the local communities to providing women's education in Nepal. 395 00:18:30.452 --> 00:18:33.772 So we're not part and can't be a part of a live program. 396 00:18:34.491 --> 00:18:38.272 We felt it was really important and we wanted to be part of it. 397 00:18:38.913 --> 00:18:41.460 We've actually directly helped, 398 00:18:41.538 --> 00:18:42.179 for example, 399 00:18:42.397 --> 00:18:43.835 projects in different countries. 400 00:18:44.226 --> 00:18:46.179 We've shared some of our financial models. 401 00:18:47.272 --> 00:18:48.851 We were visiting Serbia. 402 00:18:49.206 --> 00:18:51.047 And some of their members came and saw us, 403 00:18:51.227 --> 00:18:52.989 trying to inspire what they were doing. 404 00:18:53.450 --> 00:18:55.852 We've shared some of our different documents, 405 00:18:55.954 --> 00:18:56.993 our lease agreements. 406 00:18:57.333 --> 00:19:01.942 And ACE allowed us to come and actually share some of the experiences that we've done. 407 00:19:02.403 --> 00:19:08.247 So it's about the idea of citizens and solidarity with other citizens. 408 00:19:08.512 --> 00:19:11.043 And I think that's incredibly important at times like today. 409 00:19:11.809 --> 00:19:14.684 This was Mark Luntley from E4O in the UK. 410 00:19:16.830 --> 00:19:20.514 Energy democracy still stops at too many borders. 411 00:19:21.135 --> 00:19:23.495 As Corina Mourafa reminds us, 412 00:19:24.358 --> 00:19:28.081 citizens across Europe deserve equal rights to participate, 413 00:19:28.182 --> 00:19:31.104 to finance and to benefit from the energy transition. 414 00:19:31.924 --> 00:19:35.487 This is Corina Mourafa from the European Economic and Social Committee. 415 00:19:37.377 --> 00:19:38.831 Whether I'm a Romanian, 416 00:19:38.971 --> 00:19:39.393 a German, 417 00:19:39.706 --> 00:19:40.471 a Norwegian, 418 00:19:41.299 --> 00:19:45.799 I should have married the same rights all over Europe to be part of the community. 419 00:19:46.518 --> 00:19:50.844 So of a community to get access to financing and the reality is that at the moment we don't have it. 420 00:19:50.845 --> 00:19:52.883 That's very sad because I'm looking at, 421 00:19:53.906 --> 00:20:02.699 I know some of these beautiful projects in Germany where citizen energy communities can get extra money from the municipality for coal, 422 00:20:03.027 --> 00:20:05.137 investing a bigger project and so on. 423 00:20:05.512 --> 00:20:06.855 And there are countries in Europe, 424 00:20:06.871 --> 00:20:07.746 including my own, 425 00:20:07.840 --> 00:20:10.496 where energy sharing is not even allowed by law. 426 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:14.152 So a community can set itself up because it cannot de facto function. 427 00:20:14.199 --> 00:20:15.199 So just seeing this. 428 00:20:15.802 --> 00:20:20.524 The level of heterogeneity in Europe is very concerning for us. 429 00:20:20.864 --> 00:20:23.344 It falls down to our varieties of EU citizens. 430 00:20:23.383 --> 00:20:24.465 That's the sad part of it, 431 00:20:24.466 --> 00:20:24.746 you know. 432 00:20:25.262 --> 00:20:25.504 Really, 433 00:20:25.723 --> 00:20:29.465 the energy market should function all over the place the same. 434 00:20:30.028 --> 00:20:35.184 And the energy market leads also the renewable energy communities and the energy communities. 435 00:20:36.168 --> 00:20:37.699 If you're looking at the prosumers' 436 00:20:37.762 --> 00:20:39.512 movement in some countries, 437 00:20:39.574 --> 00:20:40.949 like including in Romania, 438 00:20:41.590 --> 00:20:44.168 there's no more capacity in school by prosumers than... 439 00:20:44.574 --> 00:20:46.375 Our two nuclear reactors combined. 440 00:20:46.376 --> 00:20:48.700 So somehow the market is developing. 441 00:20:48.817 --> 00:20:50.559 Energy communities are developing. 442 00:20:50.579 --> 00:20:51.762 They're coming up more and more. 443 00:20:51.782 --> 00:20:56.262 I just heard earlier that for the technical assistance that the EU Commission could forward, 444 00:20:56.286 --> 00:20:57.786 there were 700 applications, 445 00:20:57.825 --> 00:20:58.668 which is massive. 446 00:20:59.325 --> 00:21:00.332 So there's a lot of hope. 447 00:21:00.333 --> 00:21:01.043 But the question is, 448 00:21:01.090 --> 00:21:02.293 how do we accelerate it? 449 00:21:02.309 --> 00:21:05.856 How do we ensure that the change is uniform over Europe? 450 00:21:05.981 --> 00:21:07.637 And if the cities have energy packages, 451 00:21:07.638 --> 00:21:11.887 the Commission is going to come up with at the end of next year or beginning of next year. 452 00:21:12.266 --> 00:21:13.868 It's really instrumental for this. 453 00:21:13.927 --> 00:21:16.189 We need to make sure that the citizens energy package, 454 00:21:16.708 --> 00:21:19.134 despite not being a legislative initiative, 455 00:21:19.412 --> 00:21:30.927 is still strong enough that member states can really take guidance from it and not involve whatsoever reasons to not fully support energy communities in all VU countries, 456 00:21:31.005 --> 00:21:39.880 not just in those that historically have had more active citizenship and the natural ECDs communities starting to pop up more in those countries. 457 00:21:42.302 --> 00:21:43.103 Across Europe, 458 00:21:43.523 --> 00:21:48.627 cooperatives are creating ways for money to stay close to home. 459 00:21:49.248 --> 00:21:52.795 The movement is growing project by project, 460 00:21:53.412 --> 00:21:56.053 and with every euro reinvested, 461 00:21:56.334 --> 00:21:58.154 communities build resilience. 462 00:21:58.750 --> 00:22:01.070 This is Dirk vanSintjan from RESCOOP.EU. 463 00:22:03.152 --> 00:22:06.031 Imagine the amount of money that now can stay local. 464 00:22:06.511 --> 00:22:07.730 But if we could retain it here. 465 00:22:08.589 --> 00:22:10.589 And there's a second project coming up. 466 00:22:10.793 --> 00:22:13.136 It's not finalized yet, 467 00:22:13.652 --> 00:22:14.535 but it's a 468 00:22:14.980 --> 00:22:17.433 5 megawatt solar farm in Ireland. 469 00:22:17.511 --> 00:22:19.511 They have a permit, 470 00:22:20.230 --> 00:22:21.668 they have the grid connection, 471 00:22:22.433 --> 00:22:26.261 and now they must tender it to the small local banks. 472 00:22:26.818 --> 00:22:28.619 They are willing to finance for 80% 473 00:22:30.061 --> 00:22:30.942 the credit units, 474 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:31.602 that's the word. 475 00:22:31.961 --> 00:22:34.067 And so now they are looking for 1 million euros. 476 00:22:34.606 --> 00:22:35.586 And if we step in, 477 00:22:35.766 --> 00:22:37.711 we will give them the time to organize, 478 00:22:37.766 --> 00:22:39.274 to raise the money locally in Nairobi. 479 00:22:39.813 --> 00:22:42.899 So that's what we want to do with the Rescope East-Vix. 480 00:22:44.930 --> 00:22:49.086 A project that began as a pilot has become a template. 481 00:22:49.758 --> 00:22:51.258 From Croatia to Belgium, 482 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:56.102 ACE has shown how collective action turns ambition into... 483 00:22:56.354 --> 00:22:56.654 Trust. 484 00:22:57.396 --> 00:22:59.138 And now we're back with Sarah Deshli. 485 00:23:01.239 --> 00:23:08.646 My favorite moment was actually only last year when we realized that we succeeded and that in every partner country, 486 00:23:09.185 --> 00:23:10.966 there was actually a SEF set up. 487 00:23:11.005 --> 00:23:11.130 So, 488 00:23:11.349 --> 00:23:12.513 finances being set up. 489 00:23:13.013 --> 00:23:14.169 And it also looked different. 490 00:23:14.466 --> 00:23:14.591 So, 491 00:23:14.592 --> 00:23:15.513 if you now look back, 492 00:23:15.935 --> 00:23:16.857 what we had in mind, 493 00:23:17.013 --> 00:23:18.278 it's not completely what happened, 494 00:23:18.357 --> 00:23:20.403 but it shows a bit of adaptability, 495 00:23:20.450 --> 00:23:22.482 a bit of how the partners also... 496 00:23:23.222 --> 00:23:26.486 Despite their local conflicts or challenges there, 497 00:23:26.566 --> 00:23:28.908 they still managed to move forward. 498 00:23:28.986 --> 00:23:29.107 So, 499 00:23:29.267 --> 00:23:29.790 for example, 500 00:23:29.791 --> 00:23:30.431 in Croatia, 501 00:23:31.290 --> 00:23:32.775 the legal framework is not there, 502 00:23:32.776 --> 00:23:35.314 so there's no enabling framework for energy communities yet. 503 00:23:35.955 --> 00:23:39.095 But they really wanted to take a next step, 504 00:23:39.173 --> 00:23:42.001 and therefore they invested in this public procurement scheme. 505 00:23:42.501 --> 00:23:45.205 And that is a very rich experience. 506 00:23:45.908 --> 00:23:46.580 They built there, 507 00:23:46.626 --> 00:23:50.689 and they can take it further and see how they can move forward. 508 00:23:50.955 --> 00:23:51.330 So for me, 509 00:23:51.345 --> 00:23:52.017 that was great. 510 00:23:52.562 --> 00:23:53.142 milestone, 511 00:23:53.162 --> 00:23:56.425 there is a CEF in every pilot country, 512 00:23:57.085 --> 00:23:59.163 and it really felt that this is just a beginning, 513 00:23:59.202 --> 00:23:59.425 right? 514 00:23:59.905 --> 00:24:00.507 From now on, 515 00:24:00.508 --> 00:24:05.202 we need to keep on investing and keep on exchanging knowledge and supporting one another, 516 00:24:05.764 --> 00:24:09.827 and hopefully then it can take some next steps. 517 00:24:11.811 --> 00:24:15.264 The most innovative technology we have is collective action. 518 00:24:15.882 --> 00:24:20.684 But collective action only works when finance becomes a real dialogue between citizens, 519 00:24:20.782 --> 00:24:22.403 financiers and institutions. 520 00:24:23.204 --> 00:24:26.743 A dialogue on how to make money delivered for people and for the planet, 521 00:24:27.102 --> 00:24:29.227 with strong safeguards and good governance. 522 00:24:30.009 --> 00:24:30.743 When it's done well, 523 00:24:30.907 --> 00:24:32.782 finance becomes a tool for trust, 524 00:24:33.188 --> 00:24:35.110 resilience and shared prosperity. 525 00:24:35.954 --> 00:24:40.110 Every euro invested by communities multiplies its value. 526 00:24:40.751 --> 00:24:41.782 It powers projects. 527 00:24:42.126 --> 00:24:43.251 It powers democracy. 528 00:24:44.410 --> 00:24:47.312 ACE has shown that confidence is the real success. 529 00:24:47.593 --> 00:24:51.796 Communities now know they can own the transition and shape how it's financed. 530 00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:56.300 Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Energetic. 531 00:24:56.558 --> 00:25:04.449 It's been a pleasure diving deep into the world of sustainability and the just energy transition with some of the most forward-thinking mouths out there. 532 00:25:05.136 --> 00:25:05.996 I'm Marine Cornelis, 533 00:25:06.089 --> 00:25:08.886 your host from policy consultancy Next Energy Consumer, 534 00:25:09.277 --> 00:25:12.730 and it's been an incredible journey growing this podcast together with you. 535 00:25:13.102 --> 00:25:15.205 our knowledgeable and passionate listeners. 536 00:25:15.924 --> 00:25:17.166 Since 2021, 537 00:25:17.326 --> 00:25:18.807 we've shared countless stories, 538 00:25:18.967 --> 00:25:22.611 insights and ideas over more than 40 episodes. 539 00:25:23.010 --> 00:25:26.174 And it's all thanks to your support and enthusiasm. 540 00:25:26.893 --> 00:25:31.158 If you've enjoyed our journey so far and want to help us keep the conversation going, 541 00:25:31.564 --> 00:25:33.158 why not support us on Patreon? 542 00:25:33.783 --> 00:25:37.064 Every bit helps us bring more inspiring content your way. 543 00:25:37.564 --> 00:25:39.361 Check out the show notes for the link. 544 00:25:40.064 --> 00:25:40.471 And hey! 545 00:25:40.918 --> 00:25:46.580 If you're a part of an organization that shares our passion for a sustainable and inclusive energy future, 546 00:25:47.080 --> 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