WEBVTT

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Ad Infinitum is the award-winning podcast solely focused on audio ads,

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the creatives who make them,

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and or the latest thinking that informs them,

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how the space is evolving,

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and my favorite part,

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a roundup of recent audio ads with analysis by yours truly,

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Stu Redwine,

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and each episode's guest.

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This is season three,

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episode 10 of Ad Infinitum titled,

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Shelby from the Future.

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Today we bring on someone who has helped shape not just my thinking,

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but the very creative strategy DNA of Oxford Road,

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Shelby Hayden Craig is one of the most original and clearest thinkers I know.

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Welcome to the show,

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Shelby.

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Thanks,

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dude.

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It's a pleasure to be here with you in person.

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I know,

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this is amazing.

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This has been a long time coming and the first time we've met in person after five years of working together.

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And I was thinking of doing it on video,

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but as you can see,

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listeners,

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you cannot see my right tooth.

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My front right tooth is like chipped.

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What do I look like?

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What does it look like,

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Shelby?

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Oh,

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it looked like you tripped and hit a curb with your face.

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A long time ago,

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it kind of did.

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And it finally broke apart again.

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I just PSA for the listeners.

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Don't try to open things in the kitchen with your teeth.

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This episode title,

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Shelby from the future,

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is tied to a couple of things.

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One,

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you,

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Shelby,

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live and work in Sydney,

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Australia.

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So you're always ahead of us.

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And we make.

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a big to-do out of that on calls and zoom calls and it helps in getting the work done i mean so it's like it's kind of fun it's nice packaging it's like he's in the future what are the stock tips but then it's also like you actually are in the future so we can send you stuff at the end of our day and then you're working overnight which is your day and it is incredibly handy and also getting that jump on the work week yeah i'm usually working on your sunday my monday exactly but yeah it's good working in the future there's that what's that quote

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you don't need to worry about today because it's already tomorrow in Australia.

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I think that's why you guys don't have to worry sometimes because I'm always on it tomorrow.

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Think about that.

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What you just said is really actually,

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there's a whole lot to that.

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Don't worry about today because it's already tomorrow in Australia.

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Like on the planet,

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it is two days at the same time.

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Yep.

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Just,

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it starts to really mess with our perception of kind of everything.

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What day did a thing happen?

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There's a lot of confusion around my birthday usually.

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Well,

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because your family's like here.

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Yeah,

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I wake up and get nothing.

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And then like,

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it's not your birthday yet.

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It's tomorrow.

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I'm here though.

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I always think of that though.

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I think of like,

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just,

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you know,

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we're on this planet.

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It's like,

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we zoom out.

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Like my biggest hope,

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somebody asked me like,

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what's your biggest hope for the future?

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Is that mankind becomes interstellar?

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Just to look up in the sky.

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Like that is my biggest hope,

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is that we expand across the entire universe.

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And that's so much of what you do.

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It's like zooming out,

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like zooming out.

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If you really zoom out,

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it's always two days on the earth.

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Yeah.

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That's actually the truth.

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Yeah,

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it's true.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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Well,

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that's interesting.

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Just one.

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Right.

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Okay.

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It's an interesting insight.

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Isn't it?

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And that's what we do like all the time.

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So the other thing is you're on the cutting edge.

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You're ahead of everyone else on the project.

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And what I really respect is that you help pull people up to a higher way of thinking.

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I know you have for me and you do it in a very humble,

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you do two things.

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So one,

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you are very humble and you mentioned the tools and you exhibit the right way,

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like a judo master.

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Like you're showing it,

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but you also are firm.

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Like you are still able to be firm in like not immediately giving up on your position.

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It's almost like an Aikido thing.

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That idea of like redirection.

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But it's because you are Shelby from the future.

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You've been to the higher ground.

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I really do believe that.

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You do think of it on a higher level.

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And so you can gracefully and artfully help lead people there.

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Yeah.

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And I think they're two important characteristics of.

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creatives and strategists and people that do the kind of work we do.

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I think you have to stay humble,

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which is just another way to stay stupid really at the end of the day.

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Like you have to stay curious if you want to call it that,

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but like you can't assume you know everything as a creative person or a strategic person because what is there to learn if you think that?

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There's a great quote.

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I just went through this whole thing studying Aikido and I can't remember the guy that said it right offhand,

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but it's you have to give up your attachment to being right.

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Yeah,

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absolutely.

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So there's that,

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but it's kind of on,

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they're on opposite ends,

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right?

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You have to be humble and stupid and willing to learn.

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But on the other end,

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you have to be confident in what you're doing because everyone's looking at you for the answer.

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And if you're not confident in it,

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if you back down quickly,

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it's going to fall down.

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So you have to stand up for thinking or the work or whatever it is.

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If you're not standing up for it,

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it's going to die.

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So you've got to be that person that has that confidence.

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And that's kind of like where the artist is.

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I think if you look at artists as well,

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they're always curious,

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but at the same time,

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they believe deeply in what they're doing and you kind of have to,

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you know,

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it takes a lot to pull them out of that.

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Yeah.

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That's a tough balancing act.

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You do it very well.

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Thank you.

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But that's a tough one.

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Cause it's like people,

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either me,

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I guess we'll talk about me.

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It's like,

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I either just go,

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it's not worth it or get defensive or,

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you know,

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Well,

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it's easy to get defensive as you create stuff,

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right?

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Cause it comes from you.

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Yeah.

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It hurts a bit when it doesn't land and you're like,

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Oh,

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like,

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cause you put your.

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I mean,

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I don't think there's a good creative out there that doesn't care.

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You know,

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I will say this is a kind of a consequence of this AI stuff that I'm experiencing.

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I'll tell me what you think.

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But it's like pre where we are right now,

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where it's like mass adoption and very universal understanding of like people of all ages,

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knowing that you can pretty much go to chat GBT and ask anything.

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You're not getting a Google search back.

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You're getting a thoughtful answer.

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I mean,

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it's not thinking,

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but you know,

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whatever.

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Okay.

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Here's my point.

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Every creative now has been put on notice.

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And I mean this in a good way,

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actually.

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Maybe a way to think of it is like,

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let's say we were all getting together,

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you and me and all the creatives at Oxford were getting together to put on a play or something.

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And one of the people gets on stage and I go,

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hey,

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try

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10 different ways you could come into that room.

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Because the character is going to come into the room and they do two and they go,

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oh,

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that's all I got.

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I'm like,

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well,

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what do you mean?

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There's a door and there's a window.

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That's it.

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And it's kind of understandable.

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Yeah.

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And often those concepts might be the only concepts.

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Whereas

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If they were at the beginning of their career,

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I guarantee whoever they were working for,

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it happened to me,

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it probably happened to you,

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you respond to it or breathe.

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You know,

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your creative director or whoever you're working for at the time tells you,

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come to me with 10 ideas.

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You give them the 10 ideas,

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he crumples them up and throws them in the trash.

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Okay,

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now start working.

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Right.

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Because those are the obvious.

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Those are the ones that you need to get through to get to the other stuff.

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I can remember we pitched LendingTree and the guy over there,

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Todd Lauer,

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is awesome.

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All right.

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And so we were doing like audio and TV.

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It was pre you,

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you would have loved it.

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And we beat it to death.

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Okay.

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And I think we presented like 54 ideas.

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It was me and Dan.

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So you can imagine.

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So it was a spreadsheet.

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Okay.

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But this is what was crazy.

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Todd's cool.

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Like Todd's super cool.

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Super cool.

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Big standup comedy guy,

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like super cool guy.

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And he sat there and he let us present it all like 54 ideas.

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I swear it was like 50,

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55 ideas,

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something like that.

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He's like,

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oh,

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those are good.

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Yeah,

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so good.

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He's like,

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yeah,

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you know,

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maybe two of those I haven't heard before.

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Yeah,

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because the obvious stuff comes to the forefront.

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I even want to say,

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though,

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that was after us even thinking we'd worked on it hard,

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which makes your point even further down the line.

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Like,

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you really got to work.

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Yeah,

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you do.

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You have to put in the effort because the good stuff is connecting the dots between the things that nobody else expected.

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So,

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00:07:47.020 --> 00:07:47.239
I mean,

275
00:07:47.442 --> 00:07:51.020
a good use of AI is to anyone listening that is working on ideas.

276
00:07:51.301 --> 00:07:51.442
Yeah,

277
00:07:51.645 --> 00:07:53.380
put the brief or whatever it is into it.

278
00:07:53.696 --> 00:08:00.701
Get those 20 whatever and put those on the do not present list because those will be the ones that are too obvious and everyone will do.

279
00:08:01.323 --> 00:08:01.924
Then keep going.

280
00:08:02.182 --> 00:08:02.909
I think that's great.

281
00:08:03.182 --> 00:08:04.729
That's a great idea because that's kind of what it was.

282
00:08:04.768 --> 00:08:05.010
I mean,

283
00:08:05.011 --> 00:08:05.885
it just blew my mind.

284
00:08:06.026 --> 00:08:08.073
I just remember he goes so gracefully,

285
00:08:08.393 --> 00:08:08.752
humbly.

286
00:08:09.127 --> 00:08:09.690
He's like,

287
00:08:09.955 --> 00:08:10.205
yeah,

288
00:08:10.206 --> 00:08:10.440
maybe,

289
00:08:10.534 --> 00:08:10.752
maybe,

290
00:08:10.955 --> 00:08:12.049
maybe two of those I haven't seen.

291
00:08:12.440 --> 00:08:12.674
He's like,

292
00:08:12.675 --> 00:08:13.690
we've been pitched by everybody.

293
00:08:14.034 --> 00:08:14.190
Yeah.

294
00:08:15.002 --> 00:08:15.455
And you're like,

295
00:08:15.502 --> 00:08:15.643
man,

296
00:08:15.674 --> 00:08:16.877
that was my best stuff.

297
00:08:17.034 --> 00:08:17.284
You know,

298
00:08:17.285 --> 00:08:20.580
and then what's funny with that one is we ended up doing founder spokesperson.

299
00:08:20.892 --> 00:08:21.152
You know,

300
00:08:21.172 --> 00:08:22.634
I guess there was an insight in that,

301
00:08:22.714 --> 00:08:23.055
Shelby.

302
00:08:23.355 --> 00:08:24.637
I'd like to get your thought.

303
00:08:24.695 --> 00:08:25.316
Because like I said,

304
00:08:25.336 --> 00:08:26.859
it's like I've always had to rely on other people.

305
00:08:26.937 --> 00:08:27.418
And hopefully,

306
00:08:27.419 --> 00:08:27.617
you know,

307
00:08:28.078 --> 00:08:30.465
AI helps me to like understand my own thinking.

308
00:08:30.980 --> 00:08:33.426
They'd had a Jim Henson puppet licensed.

309
00:08:33.762 --> 00:08:34.004
Lenny.

310
00:08:34.027 --> 00:08:34.566
Yeah.

311
00:08:35.043 --> 00:08:36.363
And Lenny had an attitude.

312
00:08:36.426 --> 00:08:37.769
Lenny is a straight talker.

313
00:08:38.004 --> 00:08:38.473
And it was like,

314
00:08:38.488 --> 00:08:38.613
well,

315
00:08:38.644 --> 00:08:39.598
what's that based on?

316
00:08:39.785 --> 00:08:39.957
Like,

317
00:08:39.958 --> 00:08:40.832
what was his personality?

318
00:08:40.833 --> 00:08:41.394
What was he based on?

319
00:08:41.395 --> 00:08:41.519
Oh,

320
00:08:41.520 --> 00:08:42.035
our founder.

321
00:08:42.316 --> 00:08:42.426
Oh,

322
00:08:42.957 --> 00:08:45.082
so it's basically your founder as a Muppet.

323
00:08:45.160 --> 00:08:46.910
But you don't say it's the founder's a Muppet.

324
00:08:47.004 --> 00:08:48.301
It's not easy.

325
00:08:49.452 --> 00:09:07.856
being green what if we just let your founder be who he is yeah and that's what we ended up doing which is like so i don't know that's an insight but it blew my mind it was a moment when we were talking to them i was like so lenny's doug and they were kind of like yeah he's he's stuck and i was like oh why don't we not abstract

326
00:09:08.312 --> 00:09:24.595
yeah anyway you're connecting to that i mean it is kind of uh that's the feeling you want when you want to know if it's a good insight you want the uh i haven't thought about it that's exactly what that's the response that's the response you want because all an insight is is something everyone knows but

327
00:09:24.627 --> 00:09:32.158
doesn't notice right they know it they probably they knew it deep down oh that's funny but they didn't notice you told them hey look at this look that's doug

328
00:09:32.392 --> 00:09:33.433
That's like good comedy.

329
00:09:33.573 --> 00:09:37.175
We should have done a spot where he ripped the head off and he revealed it was done.

330
00:09:37.214 --> 00:09:38.918
Like that would have taken it to the next level.

331
00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:39.320
For sure.

332
00:09:39.457 --> 00:09:40.558
That would have been a good idea.

333
00:09:40.980 --> 00:09:41.121
Yeah.

334
00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:42.300
Difference there though,

335
00:09:42.582 --> 00:09:44.324
between the idea and the insight.

336
00:09:44.504 --> 00:09:46.722
The insight's the thing that everyone knows,

337
00:09:47.004 --> 00:09:47.746
but doesn't notice.

338
00:09:48.066 --> 00:09:49.254
The idea is what you do with it.

339
00:09:49.722 --> 00:09:51.535
But you need the insight to get to the idea.

340
00:09:51.566 --> 00:09:51.691
Yeah.

341
00:09:51.707 --> 00:09:52.035
And I mean,

342
00:09:52.050 --> 00:09:54.379
there's plenty out there about like what isn't an insight.

343
00:09:54.394 --> 00:09:56.988
And I don't get too pressed about that because it's like,

344
00:09:57.238 --> 00:09:58.941
let people use words however they want.

345
00:09:59.254 --> 00:09:59.457
Sure.

346
00:09:59.722 --> 00:09:59.832
Yeah.

347
00:09:59.833 --> 00:10:00.879
Because the point is good work.

348
00:10:01.238 --> 00:10:01.941
The point is good work.

349
00:10:02.248 --> 00:10:03.149
But don't give me a

350
00:10:03.569 --> 00:10:05.090
30 page deck on insights.

351
00:10:05.250 --> 00:10:05.832
Nope.

352
00:10:05.833 --> 00:10:07.172
It should be a sentence.

353
00:10:07.593 --> 00:10:08.633
That's one statement.

354
00:10:09.136 --> 00:10:09.254
Yeah.

355
00:10:09.535 --> 00:10:09.777
I mean,

356
00:10:09.816 --> 00:10:10.215
people get,

357
00:10:10.715 --> 00:10:10.957
you know,

358
00:10:10.958 --> 00:10:13.761
we've been in this business long enough and have seen enough briefs.

359
00:10:14.238 --> 00:10:15.183
Nine times out of 10,

360
00:10:15.238 --> 00:10:17.543
the insight in the brief is just an observation.

361
00:10:17.824 --> 00:10:18.449
That's okay.

362
00:10:18.746 --> 00:10:19.558
Observations are good.

363
00:10:19.980 --> 00:10:21.340
Insight's just what you did with it next.

364
00:10:21.808 --> 00:10:22.511
And you need those.

365
00:10:22.746 --> 00:10:23.668
You need the observations.

366
00:10:23.996 --> 00:10:24.105
Yeah,

367
00:10:24.106 --> 00:10:24.855
it starts there.

368
00:10:25.277 --> 00:10:25.496
I mean,

369
00:10:25.497 --> 00:10:28.011
the point is just to do the work takes work.

370
00:10:29.058 --> 00:10:30.011
And insight is work.

371
00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:30.855
It's hard.

372
00:10:31.448 --> 00:10:33.450
It's the place everyone stumbles on the brief.

373
00:10:33.770 --> 00:10:34.030
You know,

374
00:10:34.049 --> 00:10:34.590
I was right in there.

375
00:10:34.711 --> 00:10:36.854
Tell me something about the problem in a new way.

376
00:10:36.952 --> 00:10:38.553
Or I think one time I prompt people,

377
00:10:38.936 --> 00:10:40.315
now flip the problem on its head.

378
00:10:40.377 --> 00:10:40.495
Or,

379
00:10:40.635 --> 00:10:40.877
you know,

380
00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:42.221
the thing I just told you a second ago.

381
00:10:42.479 --> 00:10:44.057
Tell me something everyone knows,

382
00:10:44.080 --> 00:10:44.979
but nobody notices.

383
00:10:45.604 --> 00:10:45.940
Everyone's like,

384
00:10:45.941 --> 00:10:46.065
what?

385
00:10:46.066 --> 00:10:46.143
Yeah.

386
00:10:46.144 --> 00:10:47.385
Because it doesn't just,

387
00:10:47.526 --> 00:10:48.588
it doesn't exist anywhere.

388
00:10:48.666 --> 00:10:49.479
You have to make it.

389
00:10:49.901 --> 00:10:50.041
Like,

390
00:10:50.073 --> 00:10:50.791
that's the hard part.

391
00:10:50.807 --> 00:10:50.948
Like,

392
00:10:50.949 --> 00:10:52.213
you can't find it somewhere.

393
00:10:52.323 --> 00:10:52.526
Like,

394
00:10:52.527 --> 00:10:52.823
you don't,

395
00:10:52.995 --> 00:10:53.870
you can't search it.

396
00:10:53.916 --> 00:10:54.276
You can't,

397
00:10:54.495 --> 00:10:57.448
I know I haven't seen that many good insights coming out of AI yet.

398
00:10:57.573 --> 00:10:57.713
But,

399
00:10:57.807 --> 00:10:58.073
you know,

400
00:10:58.229 --> 00:10:58.791
maybe there will.

401
00:10:59.080 --> 00:11:01.643
I've thrown some stuff in there to try to get it to like,

402
00:11:01.783 --> 00:11:02.864
try to pair it,

403
00:11:03.084 --> 00:11:03.885
but it doesn't,

404
00:11:04.104 --> 00:11:04.424
you know,

405
00:11:04.865 --> 00:11:05.987
it's kind of the same with writing.

406
00:11:06.006 --> 00:11:06.487
If anything,

407
00:11:06.506 --> 00:11:08.572
it gets me a little further down the road.

408
00:11:09.127 --> 00:11:09.268
Yeah.

409
00:11:09.768 --> 00:11:11.432
Because it just pulls what's out there.

410
00:11:11.955 --> 00:11:14.237
And I think that's the limitation between

411
00:11:14.776 --> 00:11:15.721
AI and,

412
00:11:16.174 --> 00:11:17.096
and insight is creative.

413
00:11:17.471 --> 00:11:18.440
I would say at the end of the day,

414
00:11:18.455 --> 00:11:19.205
it's a creative act.

415
00:11:19.705 --> 00:11:20.096
And that's,

416
00:11:20.565 --> 00:11:20.799
you know,

417
00:11:20.815 --> 00:11:24.346
it's not creating the new and novel by laterally jumping.

418
00:11:24.705 --> 00:11:25.533
That's the hard part.

419
00:11:25.643 --> 00:11:26.065
It's getting,

420
00:11:26.565 --> 00:11:27.283
for everyone listening,

421
00:11:27.346 --> 00:11:28.471
I'm holding up my arms.

422
00:11:28.776 --> 00:11:30.156
And there's like two lanes.

423
00:11:30.795 --> 00:11:31.477
AI usually is,

424
00:11:31.817 --> 00:11:32.036
you know,

425
00:11:32.457 --> 00:11:33.516
following a path.

426
00:11:33.996 --> 00:11:35.196
But to get to the other one,

427
00:11:35.758 --> 00:11:37.180
that's the jump that you need to take.

428
00:11:37.578 --> 00:11:40.157
Have you read any of Edward de Bono's stuff before?

429
00:11:40.618 --> 00:11:42.297
It's kind of like the godfather of creativity.

430
00:11:42.500 --> 00:11:44.618
I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse.

431
00:11:44.619 --> 00:11:45.196
I have a quote from him.

432
00:11:45.197 --> 00:11:45.477
He says,

433
00:11:45.493 --> 00:11:49.805
creativity involves breaking out of established patterns in order to look at things in a different way.

434
00:11:50.227 --> 00:11:51.102
That's what we're talking about.

435
00:11:51.118 --> 00:11:52.024
That's what we're talking about.

436
00:11:52.164 --> 00:11:52.555
And that's,

437
00:11:53.180 --> 00:11:55.336
AI is not really doing different yet.

438
00:11:55.586 --> 00:11:57.461
Because it's pulling from what exists.

439
00:11:57.928 --> 00:11:58.668
And it might get there.

440
00:11:59.129 --> 00:11:59.249
Yeah,

441
00:11:59.469 --> 00:11:59.869
it might.

442
00:12:00.289 --> 00:12:01.131
But we're already there.

443
00:12:01.332 --> 00:12:02.012
If we choose to be,

444
00:12:02.293 --> 00:12:03.234
we have the opportunity.

445
00:12:03.813 --> 00:12:03.953
Yeah.

446
00:12:04.293 --> 00:12:05.234
Don't shy away from the work.

447
00:12:05.496 --> 00:12:07.035
He said it takes work to get to the work.

448
00:12:07.301 --> 00:12:07.754
It does.

449
00:12:08.035 --> 00:12:09.035
You try to shortcut it.

450
00:12:09.355 --> 00:12:11.160
You're shortchanging the creative act.

451
00:12:11.441 --> 00:12:12.840
So give me an example of an insight.

452
00:12:13.324 --> 00:12:13.621
First,

453
00:12:13.957 --> 00:12:17.254
I think the best place to look for insights is in stand-up comedy.

454
00:12:17.848 --> 00:12:17.988
Yeah.

455
00:12:18.051 --> 00:12:21.145
Like everything you're talking about to me is the way all the best jokes work.

456
00:12:21.629 --> 00:12:21.770
Yeah.

457
00:12:21.895 --> 00:12:22.707
That's exactly it.

458
00:12:22.738 --> 00:12:22.879
Like,

459
00:12:22.895 --> 00:12:23.098
I mean,

460
00:12:23.285 --> 00:12:23.926
there's Seinfeld.

461
00:12:23.957 --> 00:12:24.191
It's like,

462
00:12:24.301 --> 00:12:24.613
you know,

463
00:12:24.676 --> 00:12:25.973
the thing is with...

464
00:12:26.188 --> 00:12:52.248
like he's doing that but then like chapelle is who i think i mean the goat his whole payoff at the end is you go oh yeah that's every joke every good joke but if you want to learn how to write insights if you want to learn how to craft them study medians because they're the masters of taking something that everyone knows but not noticing it in that way okay so shane mcgillis has a great one where he does it's about racism and

465
00:12:52.249 --> 00:12:54.530
he talks about how he kind of thinks it's like being hungry.

466
00:12:54.780 --> 00:12:55.320
And he's like,

467
00:12:55.400 --> 00:12:55.701
you know,

468
00:12:55.881 --> 00:12:59.465
I wasn't really feeling racist until a hamburger cut me off on the freeway.

469
00:13:01.305 --> 00:13:01.766
So good.

470
00:13:01.825 --> 00:13:02.067
Right?

471
00:13:02.106 --> 00:13:03.707
Like that's a hot button topic.

472
00:13:03.731 --> 00:13:04.129
But I'm like,

473
00:13:04.270 --> 00:13:08.051
I had never thought of racism like a passing state.

474
00:13:08.231 --> 00:13:08.356
Yeah.

475
00:13:08.692 --> 00:13:09.395
This other comedian,

476
00:13:09.411 --> 00:13:15.653
he was talking about the difference of when the doorbell rings when we were kids versus today.

477
00:13:16.059 --> 00:13:17.168
When we were kids,

478
00:13:17.247 --> 00:13:17.965
the doorbell rings.

479
00:13:17.981 --> 00:13:18.997
It's like a celebration.

480
00:13:19.106 --> 00:13:19.622
Come on in.

481
00:13:19.918 --> 00:13:20.731
Somebody's here.

482
00:13:20.872 --> 00:13:21.825
This is exciting.

483
00:13:21.981 --> 00:13:22.809
We have a visitor.

484
00:13:23.012 --> 00:13:23.668
And today it's like.

485
00:13:24.052 --> 00:13:53.273
shut the blinds who the fuck's here you know like you know it's like it's a threat today it's a threat yeah and that again we all know this we all know that it was great when we were kids but we're not connecting the dots again signs of great insight it's just it's that yeah and you've said before it's like it's not an insight but i guess it's where the insight goes is that ultimately then you want to express it in an idea of saying something in a way that hasn't been said before or saying something that hasn't been said before am i butchering that tell me something i haven't heard before or

486
00:13:53.796 --> 00:13:55.757
In a way I haven't seen or heard it.

487
00:13:56.078 --> 00:13:56.298
Right.

488
00:13:56.478 --> 00:13:57.160
So racism

489
00:13:57.499 --> 00:14:01.464
I hadn't heard of in thinking of it through the lens of hunger is actually really helpful.

490
00:14:01.945 --> 00:14:02.062
Yeah.

491
00:14:02.328 --> 00:14:03.203
That frames it for you.

492
00:14:03.562 --> 00:14:03.828
Right.

493
00:14:04.187 --> 00:14:07.867
And thinking through the response to the door is empathetic and how,

494
00:14:07.868 --> 00:14:08.249
cause you're kind of

495
00:14:08.380 --> 00:14:10.440
Like you're nostalgic for when it was exciting.

496
00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:11.039
Yeah.

497
00:14:11.860 --> 00:14:12.000
Like,

498
00:14:12.001 --> 00:14:12.959
what did we leave behind?

499
00:14:13.202 --> 00:14:13.381
Yeah.

500
00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:14.721
Why are we this way now?

501
00:14:14.722 --> 00:14:15.580
So let's try to do it.

502
00:14:15.581 --> 00:14:16.983
So we'll observe a human behavior.

503
00:14:17.022 --> 00:14:20.186
So I was driving down the five freeway to get here.

504
00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:22.741
And I'll just tell you my story.

505
00:14:22.780 --> 00:14:23.905
Maybe we'll get an insight out of it.

506
00:14:23.920 --> 00:14:26.702
So I put in the destination where we are here in Van Nuys,

507
00:14:26.748 --> 00:14:29.045
California at Quest Pacifica Studios.

508
00:14:29.530 --> 00:14:33.467
And I remember I looked across down at the five because it's like a bridge across.

509
00:14:33.483 --> 00:14:33.780
I was like,

510
00:14:33.889 --> 00:14:33.998
oh,

511
00:14:34.092 --> 00:14:35.842
and I saw how backed up it was.

512
00:14:37.244 --> 00:14:39.446
And then I intuitively went up to the old road,

513
00:14:39.745 --> 00:14:43.128
which is like a two lane that you can take to kind of avoid the five.

514
00:14:43.491 --> 00:14:44.569
But at the end of the day,

515
00:14:44.952 --> 00:14:45.448
ultimately,

516
00:14:45.472 --> 00:14:47.612
you have to go through the new hall pass either way.

517
00:14:47.917 --> 00:14:56.909
So my observation was the five was backed up and I did my best to and other people did our best to avoid it by getting on the old road.

518
00:14:57.331 --> 00:14:57.706
Ultimately,

519
00:14:57.737 --> 00:14:57.909
though,

520
00:14:57.925 --> 00:15:02.862
we all ended up in the same backed up traffic in the new hall pass because there was only one way through.

521
00:15:03.144 --> 00:15:04.191
And then I will note,

522
00:15:04.534 --> 00:15:05.472
I was using

523
00:15:05.878 --> 00:15:06.300
Waze.

524
00:15:06.604 --> 00:15:07.664
Cause intentionally I'm like,

525
00:15:07.685 --> 00:15:08.586
I'm going to get around this.

526
00:15:08.746 --> 00:15:09.227
This was funny.

527
00:15:09.285 --> 00:15:09.967
This is true too.

528
00:15:10.307 --> 00:15:13.910
I thought Waze is going to tell me to go on the old road and not get on the five.

529
00:15:13.930 --> 00:15:16.211
Cause that looks like terrible and Waze,

530
00:15:16.336 --> 00:15:16.594
you know,

531
00:15:16.656 --> 00:15:17.071
knows that.

532
00:15:17.072 --> 00:15:17.196
And,

533
00:15:17.297 --> 00:15:18.797
but there's like two ways out of Santa Clarita,

534
00:15:19.016 --> 00:15:19.797
which is where I live.

535
00:15:19.977 --> 00:15:20.617
And it didn't,

536
00:15:20.696 --> 00:15:23.680
it like told me to go back from the five and I stayed on the old road.

537
00:15:23.883 --> 00:15:24.024
Yeah.

538
00:15:24.164 --> 00:15:24.446
I'm like,

539
00:15:24.447 --> 00:15:24.946
whatever.

540
00:15:25.164 --> 00:15:25.524
I'm going to.

541
00:15:25.727 --> 00:15:26.821
Cause you don't like sitting still.

542
00:15:26.883 --> 00:15:27.305
I know you.

543
00:15:27.727 --> 00:15:27.852
Yeah,

544
00:15:27.961 --> 00:15:28.321
exactly.

545
00:15:28.805 --> 00:15:29.321
Exactly.

546
00:15:29.633 --> 00:15:30.024
So anyway,

547
00:15:30.086 --> 00:15:31.586
turning that into an insight,

548
00:15:31.633 --> 00:15:32.289
that's my story.

549
00:15:32.446 --> 00:15:33.586
Like how would you approach that?

550
00:15:33.852 --> 00:15:35.113
And I know we're doing this really quick,

551
00:15:35.153 --> 00:15:35.873
but in general,

552
00:15:35.914 --> 00:15:38.396
like how do you think through then turning that into an insight?

553
00:15:38.455 --> 00:15:40.177
Like that's the behavior that we're observing.

554
00:15:40.459 --> 00:15:40.599
Yeah.

555
00:15:40.638 --> 00:15:41.701
So like as a driver,

556
00:15:41.838 --> 00:15:44.244
you're getting in a car to go somewhere to move.

557
00:15:44.283 --> 00:15:46.588
So when it stops inherently,

558
00:15:46.861 --> 00:15:50.908
it feels uncomfortable because you're trying to go somewhere and you're not moving.

559
00:15:51.095 --> 00:15:51.205
So,

560
00:15:51.642 --> 00:15:54.330
but you are willing to take a roundabout way to get there.

561
00:15:54.486 --> 00:15:55.486
As long as you're moving,

562
00:15:55.877 --> 00:15:56.392
if you're driving,

563
00:15:56.408 --> 00:15:57.267
as long as you're moving,

564
00:15:57.377 --> 00:15:58.830
you could still deal with the suffering.

565
00:15:58.955 --> 00:15:59.174
You know,

566
00:15:59.175 --> 00:16:02.595
you still get there at the same time probably because ways always lies to as we know.

567
00:16:02.796 --> 00:16:23.903
the counter always goes up ways is the tease that tells you hey come over here come on let me tell you something yeah follow and then disappoints you i heard one guy break it down he was like map quest is like printed directions like go five miles take a left you know google maps was like you know updating we found a better route would you like to take it ways is drive through that guy's yard erratic

568
00:16:23.934 --> 00:16:28.216
and irrational you're taking the observation of that behavior of like

569
00:16:28.740 --> 00:16:30.382
I wanted to take an alternate route.

570
00:16:30.423 --> 00:16:32.423
I'm using ways to make an alternate route.

571
00:16:32.466 --> 00:16:33.485
The insight is

572
00:16:34.005 --> 00:16:36.669
I will take more pain as long as I'm moving.

573
00:16:36.950 --> 00:16:37.067
Yeah,

574
00:16:37.130 --> 00:16:39.755
you'll feel less separate as long as you're moving forward.

575
00:16:39.934 --> 00:16:41.489
And there's something insightful in that.

576
00:16:41.490 --> 00:16:42.216
It's not right yet.

577
00:16:42.356 --> 00:16:42.614
You know,

578
00:16:42.653 --> 00:16:45.239
I think insights take a lot of writing and crafting,

579
00:16:45.380 --> 00:16:48.927
but there's something in that truth of human behavior,

580
00:16:48.958 --> 00:16:49.817
especially when driving.

581
00:16:50.020 --> 00:16:50.864
As long as you're moving,

582
00:16:50.865 --> 00:16:52.005
you feel like you're going forward,

583
00:16:52.223 --> 00:16:53.036
even if it still hurts.

584
00:16:53.244 --> 00:16:53.364
Yeah,

585
00:16:53.424 --> 00:16:54.764
I think that's starting to sound right.

586
00:16:54.804 --> 00:16:58.644
That sounds in the direction of like the work we've done together where it's like that's starting to sound like a truth.

587
00:16:58.906 --> 00:16:59.046
Yeah,

588
00:16:59.425 --> 00:17:00.886
we would figure out a way to phrase it.

589
00:17:00.984 --> 00:17:02.289
And there's something underneath that,

590
00:17:02.343 --> 00:17:05.070
that then I always feel like there's a piece of insight work.

591
00:17:05.164 --> 00:17:06.086
That's a piece of comedy,

592
00:17:06.343 --> 00:17:06.703
actually,

593
00:17:06.750 --> 00:17:06.968
too,

594
00:17:07.250 --> 00:17:08.445
which is like compassion.

595
00:17:08.804 --> 00:17:08.945
Yeah.

596
00:17:09.179 --> 00:17:09.570
And like,

597
00:17:09.804 --> 00:17:11.351
we're just people were flawed,

598
00:17:11.414 --> 00:17:14.492
like all the best diamonds have a flaw lab grown diamonds don't have flaws,

599
00:17:14.632 --> 00:17:15.273
real diamonds do.

600
00:17:17.867 --> 00:17:18.804
So we have these flaws,

601
00:17:18.805 --> 00:17:19.586
we make mistakes.

602
00:17:21.023 --> 00:17:21.476
And it's like,

603
00:17:21.492 --> 00:17:21.945
that's okay.

604
00:17:22.336 --> 00:17:25.999
And that's why insight work is so important in any sort of advertising,

605
00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:28.081
because you're just talking to people at the end of the day.

606
00:17:28.401 --> 00:17:29.542
So if it was a customer,

607
00:17:29.702 --> 00:17:30.405
like if this was,

608
00:17:30.406 --> 00:17:32.022
we were breaking down a persona for some,

609
00:17:32.085 --> 00:17:34.788
and I like actually that we're not starting with a product with this idea.

610
00:17:34.827 --> 00:17:36.233
It's just a story of a behavior.

611
00:17:36.413 --> 00:17:36.772
It's like,

612
00:17:36.889 --> 00:17:37.132
oh,

613
00:17:37.350 --> 00:17:43.983
people are willing to put up with more inconvenience as long as they perceive they're still moving towards their goal,

614
00:17:43.999 --> 00:17:46.139
which I just use too many words and too many syllables.

615
00:17:46.218 --> 00:17:48.343
And maybe even tack something onto the end of it,

616
00:17:48.561 --> 00:17:49.218
like a question,

617
00:17:49.327 --> 00:17:50.889
but which route was actually harder?

618
00:17:51.152 --> 00:17:51.432
Right.

619
00:17:51.492 --> 00:17:51.873
There we go.

620
00:17:52.092 --> 00:17:52.873
Like now we're talking.

621
00:17:53.053 --> 00:17:55.797
That's where you make someone think about something in a new way.

622
00:17:56.118 --> 00:17:56.258
Like,

623
00:17:56.297 --> 00:17:58.500
would it have been easier just to sit on the five,

624
00:17:58.539 --> 00:18:03.446
even though it was going slow and listen to whatever you're listening to and think about it rather than stressing out,

625
00:18:03.664 --> 00:18:08.250
trying to make every light and turn left and crazy traffic and all that stuff.

626
00:18:08.657 --> 00:18:08.766
Yeah.

627
00:18:08.767 --> 00:18:12.797
It's like the perception of progress beats out sitting still.

628
00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:13.188
Yeah.

629
00:18:13.189 --> 00:18:14.000
The false progress.

630
00:18:14.468 --> 00:18:15.849
Slow and steady wins the race.

631
00:18:15.910 --> 00:18:16.089
See,

632
00:18:16.290 --> 00:18:17.531
somebody else had already said it.

633
00:18:17.570 --> 00:18:20.593
So let's talk about something we've seen audio do particularly well,

634
00:18:20.656 --> 00:18:21.734
B2B advertising.

635
00:18:22.015 --> 00:18:26.203
My personal theory is that because B2B products are often more conceptual,

636
00:18:26.500 --> 00:18:27.984
they lend themselves to an audio environment.

637
00:18:27.985 --> 00:18:31.421
So like when you're talking about an ERP solution or even e-commerce,

638
00:18:31.437 --> 00:18:32.859
like that's actually a concept,

639
00:18:33.062 --> 00:18:33.312
right?

640
00:18:33.500 --> 00:18:35.921
It's not a physical thing that I can describe.

641
00:18:36.062 --> 00:18:39.765
So it is my personal theory is that like that then,

642
00:18:39.859 --> 00:18:40.046
okay,

643
00:18:40.093 --> 00:18:42.968
that's in the mind more and hearing is in the mind more.

644
00:18:43.228 --> 00:18:44.049
not outside,

645
00:18:44.069 --> 00:18:44.349
you know,

646
00:18:44.549 --> 00:18:44.970
so I'm,

647
00:18:45.290 --> 00:18:46.450
it lends itself towards that.

648
00:18:46.652 --> 00:18:54.718
There's also a lot of people in business listening and most business purchase cycles take a long time and audio works better over time.

649
00:18:55.023 --> 00:18:57.085
There's a lot of research out there about that.

650
00:18:57.265 --> 00:19:02.351
So it's like audio has some inherent advantages when you look at B2B advertising.

651
00:19:02.632 --> 00:19:07.413
There's probably one more thing that I notice about B2B as well as that works with audio.

652
00:19:07.632 --> 00:19:08.226
It's a parallel.

653
00:19:08.392 --> 00:19:35.999
is people are especially the podcast people choose to listen to a podcast you know you pick a podcast it's not like you're just letting it come on most b2b situations they're typically looking for something they're seeking a solution to something they usually have clear defined problems that they might not know of but there's problems that they face yeah and so the target is predisposed to be receptive yeah they're seeking an answer yeah and it's like we have the answer yes

654
00:19:36.280 --> 00:19:37.161
So that's just so exciting.

655
00:19:37.181 --> 00:19:39.782
Like it is invigorating to me talking about insights.

656
00:19:39.823 --> 00:19:41.927
And when we start to actually break it,

657
00:19:42.063 --> 00:19:42.645
there's a feel.

658
00:19:42.806 --> 00:19:42.927
Yeah,

659
00:19:43.267 --> 00:19:44.169
there's a feel where it's like,

660
00:19:44.188 --> 00:19:45.485
I know we didn't get all the way there,

661
00:19:45.688 --> 00:19:48.392
but it's a completely different feel than just like transactional.

662
00:19:48.415 --> 00:19:48.931
Give me the brief.

663
00:19:48.993 --> 00:19:50.392
What's it like?

664
00:19:50.532 --> 00:19:51.634
We're actually working through it.

665
00:19:51.635 --> 00:19:54.517
So and a big part of that is just observation.

666
00:19:54.845 --> 00:19:54.954
And,

667
00:19:55.032 --> 00:19:55.282
you know,

668
00:19:55.298 --> 00:19:59.329
some I'm really proud that we did together is all the work we've done with Shopify.

669
00:19:59.548 --> 00:20:01.079
And that really started with some observation.

670
00:20:01.080 --> 00:20:02.985
And then the way that that ultimately came to life in audio.

671
00:20:03.032 --> 00:20:03.923
Can you tell me about that?

672
00:20:04.063 --> 00:20:04.220
Yeah,

673
00:20:04.470 --> 00:20:04.642
we've...

674
00:20:04.756 --> 00:20:06.477
been working with Shopify for a few years now.

675
00:20:09.782 --> 00:20:10.540
Awesome product.

676
00:20:10.681 --> 00:20:11.321
People love it.

677
00:20:11.423 --> 00:20:13.763
What do they use it for and what do they love most about it?

678
00:20:13.966 --> 00:20:14.481
Make some money.

679
00:20:15.122 --> 00:20:15.747
People love money,

680
00:20:15.966 --> 00:20:16.848
especially businesses.

681
00:20:17.286 --> 00:20:20.294
And one of the earliest things we help them with.

682
00:20:20.372 --> 00:20:22.434
I want to add something to that because I know you believe it.

683
00:20:22.528 --> 00:20:23.356
It does make them money.

684
00:20:23.622 --> 00:20:24.622
I know you already think this.

685
00:20:24.950 --> 00:20:26.309
It makes them money doing what they love.

686
00:20:26.419 --> 00:20:28.434
You can fail at what you don't want.

687
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:31.559
So you might as well take a chance on doing what you love.

688
00:20:31.684 --> 00:20:32.106
Great point.

689
00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:32.340
Yeah,

690
00:20:32.341 --> 00:20:35.743
it's a way to take what they love and turn it into a way to survive,

691
00:20:35.804 --> 00:20:36.044
you know,

692
00:20:36.045 --> 00:20:37.585
a way to live and a way to succeed.

693
00:20:37.644 --> 00:20:37.886
You know,

694
00:20:37.925 --> 00:20:39.827
I think everyone's seeking success at the end of the day.

695
00:20:40.128 --> 00:20:41.226
But we helped them early on.

696
00:20:41.569 --> 00:20:41.812
You know,

697
00:20:41.813 --> 00:20:44.890
they identified a lot of their customers and their problems.

698
00:20:45.069 --> 00:20:49.062
And it all kind of came back to one thing is like people use Shopify to sell.

699
00:20:49.483 --> 00:20:49.718
You know,

700
00:20:49.719 --> 00:20:51.093
their whole thing is about selling,

701
00:20:51.499 --> 00:20:52.015
making money.

702
00:20:52.405 --> 00:20:53.968
That's what people are trying to do there.

703
00:20:53.999 --> 00:20:54.843
That's their ultimate goal.

704
00:20:55.249 --> 00:20:57.249
And we were playing around with the product.

705
00:20:57.884 --> 00:21:16.476
you know reading a lot of stuff on reddit reddit i think is a great place for insights because it's real people having real conversations and we're looking at some stuff and they have this cha-ching sound effect that plays when you get a sale and naturally everyone loves when they get a sale people

706
00:21:16.741 --> 00:21:24.944
loved the sound they were asking i think some of the reddit things just would say like i just love that sound that sound oh this is gonna feel good when you hear it cha-ching

707
00:21:25.396 --> 00:21:26.237
And you're in the other room,

708
00:21:26.257 --> 00:21:27.879
you hear your phone buzz and go cha-ching.

709
00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:31.062
That's how you know you're onto something or you know you're succeeding.

710
00:21:31.543 --> 00:21:33.562
And it's just something that their audience loved.

711
00:21:33.922 --> 00:21:37.664
And it's also something that's just associated with making money,

712
00:21:37.851 --> 00:21:39.086
a cash register cha-ching.

713
00:21:39.273 --> 00:21:40.390
Like you don't need to explain it.

714
00:21:40.531 --> 00:21:41.914
Everyone knows that means money.

715
00:21:42.195 --> 00:21:44.367
But they weren't using it in their ads,

716
00:21:44.648 --> 00:21:45.414
especially in audio.

717
00:21:45.523 --> 00:21:45.992
And we're like,

718
00:21:46.133 --> 00:21:47.476
people love this about you.

719
00:21:47.695 --> 00:21:49.367
It's your ultimate proposition.

720
00:21:50.048 --> 00:22:18.553
whatever you want to call whatever marketing term you want to use promise there you go promise it's the ultimate promise for people is that they'll sell something and make money solution yeah so use it in your ads so people build that association selling equals shopify shopify equals selling whatever way you want to stitch it it's one of those where like it feels like to me like in a fantasy movie or maybe a sci-fi movie where they're like we have this old crate from the planet shintai sea you know and they

721
00:22:19.872 --> 00:22:20.352
And it's like,

722
00:22:20.432 --> 00:22:22.932
that's the ancient elven super weapon.

723
00:22:23.053 --> 00:22:25.134
The blade is of elvish make.

724
00:22:25.415 --> 00:22:25.735
Yeah.

725
00:22:25.755 --> 00:22:26.532
Like they had this.

726
00:22:26.774 --> 00:22:27.876
It sounded too obvious.

727
00:22:27.930 --> 00:22:28.055
Well,

728
00:22:28.056 --> 00:22:29.157
and they'd even made a button.

729
00:22:29.274 --> 00:22:30.516
They'd made a cha-ching button.

730
00:22:30.712 --> 00:22:30.876
Yeah.

731
00:22:31.134 --> 00:22:32.376
That like came and went.

732
00:22:32.516 --> 00:22:32.774
So yeah,

733
00:22:32.798 --> 00:22:34.938
I remember you found all that in the social listening.

734
00:22:34.993 --> 00:22:35.235
You know,

735
00:22:35.236 --> 00:22:36.313
we called it social listening.

736
00:22:36.563 --> 00:22:37.688
Just read reviews.

737
00:22:37.860 --> 00:22:38.032
Yeah.

738
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:38.641
Reading Reddit.

739
00:22:38.719 --> 00:22:38.969
Really?

740
00:22:39.094 --> 00:22:39.594
Reading people.

741
00:22:39.657 --> 00:22:40.313
And YouTube.

742
00:22:40.376 --> 00:22:44.032
I remember like you found some YouTube stuff where like people had the sound.

743
00:22:44.173 --> 00:22:44.344
Yeah.

744
00:22:44.438 --> 00:22:45.891
That means somebody's going to the trouble.

745
00:22:46.080 --> 00:22:50.162
to like record that sound or find that sound and play that sound and play that sound on repeat.

746
00:22:50.540 --> 00:22:50.841
You're like,

747
00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:52.560
you've got an observation.

748
00:22:52.900 --> 00:22:53.021
Yeah.

749
00:22:53.083 --> 00:22:53.763
I think on my,

750
00:22:54.040 --> 00:22:54.880
the pitch presentation,

751
00:22:54.904 --> 00:22:56.841
that wasn't very long that we fed in there.

752
00:22:57.185 --> 00:23:00.763
I put in a YouTube clip that someone stitched together like six hours of to cheat.

753
00:23:00.865 --> 00:23:02.185
It was like,

754
00:23:02.263 --> 00:23:03.669
if someone loves it this much,

755
00:23:03.826 --> 00:23:04.544
that's what I was trying to say.

756
00:23:04.779 --> 00:23:05.638
And if I remember,

757
00:23:05.732 --> 00:23:05.857
like,

758
00:23:05.904 --> 00:23:08.372
I remember you noticed it and you brought it

759
00:23:08.928 --> 00:23:11.211
And then like with our powers combined,

760
00:23:11.212 --> 00:23:14.894
like I remember being very adamant on we can do this.

761
00:23:14.914 --> 00:23:16.617
We can include this in every live read.

762
00:23:16.836 --> 00:23:18.797
And that's where I feel like our forces came together.

763
00:23:18.976 --> 00:23:19.101
Yeah,

764
00:23:19.117 --> 00:23:20.062
because my initial idea was,

765
00:23:20.117 --> 00:23:20.242
hey,

766
00:23:20.336 --> 00:23:22.023
use this in your audio ads,

767
00:23:22.203 --> 00:23:22.437
you know,

768
00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:24.461
mainly produced radio spots,

769
00:23:24.523 --> 00:23:24.664
etc.

770
00:23:25.172 --> 00:23:26.719
Use it as like a Sonic logo,

771
00:23:27.141 --> 00:23:27.359
you know,

772
00:23:27.360 --> 00:23:28.187
whatever you want to call it,

773
00:23:28.203 --> 00:23:29.016
a Sonic sign off,

774
00:23:29.141 --> 00:23:29.391
you know,

775
00:23:29.422 --> 00:23:29.906
signature.

776
00:23:30.062 --> 00:23:30.734
But you were like,

777
00:23:30.953 --> 00:23:31.125
hey,

778
00:23:31.156 --> 00:23:32.797
we could use this in podcast.

779
00:23:33.156 --> 00:23:33.297
Yeah,

780
00:23:33.298 --> 00:23:33.578
let's go.

781
00:23:33.859 --> 00:23:34.266
And I was like,

782
00:23:34.297 --> 00:23:34.719
how?

783
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:34.953
You're like,

784
00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:35.797
just just watch.

785
00:23:37.372 --> 00:23:38.373
And I remember like,

786
00:23:38.394 --> 00:23:40.636
that was funny because you could still get on the phone.

787
00:23:40.655 --> 00:23:40.835
I mean,

788
00:23:40.836 --> 00:23:41.437
you could today,

789
00:23:41.577 --> 00:23:42.378
but it's different now.

790
00:23:42.499 --> 00:23:47.484
But it was like talking to people like producers or even our friends over at Sirius XM,

791
00:23:47.485 --> 00:23:48.124
who I love,

792
00:23:48.265 --> 00:23:48.780
was like,

793
00:23:48.882 --> 00:23:49.007
OK,

794
00:23:49.265 --> 00:23:51.570
so we need you guys to use the sound effect in the read.

795
00:23:51.571 --> 00:23:51.890
And I,

796
00:23:51.891 --> 00:23:52.023
well,

797
00:23:52.024 --> 00:23:52.609
we don't do that.

798
00:23:52.624 --> 00:23:52.866
It's like,

799
00:23:52.867 --> 00:23:52.991
OK,

800
00:23:53.507 --> 00:23:54.913
like I'm looking at a soundboard right now.

801
00:23:55.023 --> 00:23:56.632
Shelby and I have a soundboard in the studio room.

802
00:23:56.648 --> 00:23:57.945
It's like I'm talking to the person on the phone.

803
00:23:57.946 --> 00:23:58.179
I'm like,

804
00:23:58.180 --> 00:23:58.773
do you have a soundboard?

805
00:23:58.774 --> 00:23:59.601
Can you look at your soundboard?

806
00:23:59.882 --> 00:23:59.991
Yeah.

807
00:24:00.195 --> 00:24:01.476
Do you see the programmable button?

808
00:24:01.477 --> 00:24:03.335
There's a pad with nine programmable buttons.

809
00:24:03.413 --> 00:24:03.538
Yeah.

810
00:24:03.539 --> 00:24:03.663
OK,

811
00:24:03.726 --> 00:24:04.351
so what you're going to do.

812
00:24:04.572 --> 00:24:32.755
you're gonna program this yeah is it you can do it yeah don't tell me you can't do it yeah but what was great about it is and you challenged me you were like okay find like 10 different ways we could use it in the scripts in fun ways and blah blah and only through like insightful thinking craft because i think that ultimately what you're talking about just there at the soundboard is craft it is you have a background in craft and audio so you speak the language that they speak so when they say no you could say well actually yes you can

813
00:24:33.196 --> 00:24:58.143
yeah let me tell you the butt let me show you how yeah you know which leads to good ideas and good work at the end of the day because there's craft and hair you know and you're able to make stuff that but it's still hard right it was a struggle to get it there it was but because you and i were both persistent about it yeah it worked well now it's a baseline like now it's table stakes but we had to fight and like gravity wanted to pull it out we

814
00:24:58.174 --> 00:25:02.549
then did do performance you know big thing we did was we were finally able to do like

815
00:25:02.736 --> 00:25:07.421
a good look at performance at a window of one quarter of like,

816
00:25:07.441 --> 00:25:07.839
so what?

817
00:25:08.222 --> 00:25:09.605
So this is great insight,

818
00:25:09.804 --> 00:25:10.464
the ka-ching,

819
00:25:10.964 --> 00:25:13.566
the fact that it's paying off massively in people's brains,

820
00:25:13.949 --> 00:25:15.105
the association's memory,

821
00:25:15.167 --> 00:25:15.308
great,

822
00:25:15.331 --> 00:25:15.972
but did it work?

823
00:25:16.245 --> 00:25:18.269
And what's nice is we were able to see over a quarter,

824
00:25:18.394 --> 00:25:19.074
every single read,

825
00:25:19.292 --> 00:25:23.433
and this is a significant buy that over a quarter out of three reads.

826
00:25:23.434 --> 00:25:24.136
So that's roughly,

827
00:25:24.199 --> 00:25:25.636
let's say one drop,

828
00:25:25.792 --> 00:25:27.839
one ad per month for three months.

829
00:25:28.120 --> 00:25:29.167
If they used it once,

830
00:25:29.168 --> 00:25:30.136
we saw a 13%

831
00:25:30.183 --> 00:25:31.120
performance improvement.

832
00:25:31.340 --> 00:25:36.662
and if they used it two or three times we saw a 30 performance improvement across the funnel so

833
00:25:37.387 --> 00:25:52.660
it had an impact yeah and it's nice to prove that you and i always knew it was going to work of course because of our experience one i knew it would work if you kept doing it like it works if you work it that's my view of the sonic branding stuff like you've got to commit yeah and you and i knew the market

834
00:25:52.661 --> 00:26:07.082
in science or whatever you want to call it we read all the studies before we even proposed this and we knew all this stuff yeah right like we had in our brain in our library of our brains we had yeah you know using stuff in repetition builds association that's good

835
00:26:07.415 --> 00:26:07.696
You know,

836
00:26:08.036 --> 00:26:08.737
there's an 86%

837
00:26:09.237 --> 00:26:12.842
correlation between somebody wanting to take an action and hearing a sound that they like.

838
00:26:12.959 --> 00:26:13.080
Yeah.

839
00:26:13.162 --> 00:26:15.647
We knew in our brains that like something unexpected,

840
00:26:15.967 --> 00:26:16.201
you know,

841
00:26:16.264 --> 00:26:16.944
jolts them out.

842
00:26:17.186 --> 00:26:17.647
Exactly.

843
00:26:17.826 --> 00:26:21.170
Unexpected for the media channel jolts them out of their days or whatever.

844
00:26:21.248 --> 00:26:21.467
You know,

845
00:26:21.468 --> 00:26:23.287
we knew that there's some stat probably about that,

846
00:26:23.545 --> 00:26:24.405
but it was already in our brain.

847
00:26:24.406 --> 00:26:26.108
We didn't have to regurgitate it.

848
00:26:26.295 --> 00:26:27.670
We might have for the pitch.

849
00:26:27.873 --> 00:26:27.998
Yeah,

850
00:26:27.999 --> 00:26:28.561
we probably did.

851
00:26:28.780 --> 00:26:32.155
And it's good to prove that it works because that backs up our intellect or,

852
00:26:32.561 --> 00:26:32.858
you know.

853
00:26:32.859 --> 00:26:32.998
Yeah.

854
00:26:32.999 --> 00:26:34.983
And also it's like set people up to have fun.

855
00:26:35.061 --> 00:26:36.498
Like there's so many reads where.

856
00:26:36.831 --> 00:26:37.392
hosts had fun.

857
00:26:37.393 --> 00:26:37.852
I can't remember.

858
00:26:37.892 --> 00:26:43.879
There's one where it was like all spooky and like they use the cha-ching over and over and over.

859
00:26:43.898 --> 00:26:44.218
It's like,

860
00:26:44.219 --> 00:26:48.340
it's like a sound coming from a distance and we've had fun with it.

861
00:26:48.426 --> 00:26:50.144
Like we did a 360 spot.

862
00:26:50.363 --> 00:26:52.090
We did cha-chings all around the world.

863
00:26:52.308 --> 00:26:54.254
Like it opened up a whole campaign.

864
00:26:54.285 --> 00:26:56.097
And then I thought what was really cool,

865
00:26:56.457 --> 00:26:57.691
the performance is really cool.

866
00:26:57.816 --> 00:26:59.035
The performance is the coolest.

867
00:26:59.894 --> 00:27:01.691
Everything else is icing on that cake.

868
00:27:01.975 --> 00:27:05.037
Was like you noticing you like sent me a TV spot and you're like,

869
00:27:05.038 --> 00:27:05.156
hey,

870
00:27:05.216 --> 00:27:06.496
look what they're using their TV now.

871
00:27:07.976 --> 00:27:08.816
If they want to use it,

872
00:27:08.855 --> 00:27:09.058
great.

873
00:27:09.097 --> 00:27:13.175
But I think all of that demonstrates it's a sign of a good idea as well.

874
00:27:13.176 --> 00:27:18.543
I feel like the fact that it's able to live on in other channels and other formats,

875
00:27:18.902 --> 00:27:22.183
it's inspiring hosts to do their thing,

876
00:27:22.277 --> 00:27:22.558
too.

877
00:27:22.902 --> 00:27:23.824
They get them excited.

878
00:27:23.855 --> 00:27:26.855
You could see which hosts actually care about us because they're the ones,

879
00:27:27.043 --> 00:27:27.277
you know,

880
00:27:27.308 --> 00:27:28.183
having fun with it.

881
00:27:28.418 --> 00:27:31.105
It's fertile and it's great that it grew and evolved into.

882
00:27:31.443 --> 00:27:32.424
all the things that it did.

883
00:27:32.604 --> 00:27:34.226
And I get the true sign of an idea.

884
00:27:34.547 --> 00:27:36.289
If it spurs more ideas,

885
00:27:36.648 --> 00:27:37.109
that's good.

886
00:27:37.289 --> 00:27:38.031
That's the real thing.

887
00:27:38.051 --> 00:27:39.230
If it kind of stops you,

888
00:27:39.652 --> 00:27:40.129
you're kind of like,

889
00:27:40.176 --> 00:27:41.816
it's probably might not be that rich.

890
00:27:43.355 --> 00:27:44.215
But if everyone's like,

891
00:27:44.238 --> 00:27:44.699
yeah,

892
00:27:44.754 --> 00:27:45.113
do this,

893
00:27:45.137 --> 00:27:45.480
do this,

894
00:27:45.598 --> 00:27:46.879
you're starting to get onto something.

895
00:27:47.535 --> 00:27:47.941
That's cool.

896
00:27:48.379 --> 00:27:49.394
Ideas beget ideas.

897
00:27:49.644 --> 00:27:49.879
They do.

898
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:50.801
They have energy.

899
00:27:51.129 --> 00:27:52.660
Insights are a form of ideas.

900
00:27:52.738 --> 00:27:54.332
Strategy is a form of ideas.

901
00:27:54.551 --> 00:27:54.769
You know,

902
00:27:54.770 --> 00:27:56.551
it's all about that new and novel.

903
00:27:56.754 --> 00:27:57.785
The editor bonus says that,

904
00:27:57.816 --> 00:27:58.051
you know,

905
00:27:58.316 --> 00:27:59.066
it's all about,

906
00:27:59.207 --> 00:28:00.394
he has this other quote that I love.

907
00:28:00.523 --> 00:28:04.407
He says creativity gives us hope that there could be a worthwhile idea.

908
00:28:04.589 --> 00:28:08.093
It gives us the possibility of some sort of achievement to everyone.

909
00:28:08.094 --> 00:28:08.350
You know,

910
00:28:08.351 --> 00:28:10.796
it's like democratic in some ways and liberating.

911
00:28:11.374 --> 00:28:11.991
It's ideas.

912
00:28:12.335 --> 00:28:13.116
It's imagination.

913
00:28:13.397 --> 00:28:15.780
Imagination.

914
00:28:16.038 --> 00:28:16.499
It's great.

915
00:28:16.593 --> 00:28:17.327
Like you spark it.

916
00:28:17.593 --> 00:28:18.233
And that's why,

917
00:28:18.264 --> 00:28:18.796
you know,

918
00:28:18.827 --> 00:28:20.249
we've talked about this so much,

919
00:28:20.296 --> 00:28:25.889
but that's why I'm so passionate about people exploring their ideas and doing the hard work.

920
00:28:26.046 --> 00:28:27.233
Because when you get it,

921
00:28:27.436 --> 00:28:29.249
like when you have those moments of like,

922
00:28:29.546 --> 00:28:29.718
ah.

923
00:28:30.059 --> 00:28:34.025
It's probably one of the more rewarding parts of what we do.

924
00:28:34.462 --> 00:28:37.208
Just that feeling of it's kind of euphoric.

925
00:28:37.325 --> 00:28:38.685
It's kind of humbling.

926
00:28:38.989 --> 00:28:41.849
I've also experienced that it's like when we've really done our homework,

927
00:28:42.029 --> 00:28:42.833
I feel invincible.

928
00:28:43.075 --> 00:28:43.216
Yeah.

929
00:28:43.529 --> 00:28:45.114
Like the pitch does not feel,

930
00:28:45.474 --> 00:28:46.060
I'm fearless.

931
00:28:46.372 --> 00:28:46.497
Yeah.

932
00:28:46.560 --> 00:28:47.779
You don't need a script for the pitch.

933
00:28:47.982 --> 00:28:51.466
Because I know it's like we did it and we did our best and this is a good idea.

934
00:28:51.654 --> 00:28:52.935
And then it's like fearless.

935
00:28:53.325 --> 00:28:54.904
As opposed to earlier in my career,

936
00:28:55.091 --> 00:28:55.560
it would be,

937
00:28:56.372 --> 00:28:59.513
I got to do some jazz hands and just make sure they don't look over here and

938
00:28:59.763 --> 00:29:16.855
pull these levers and just get them to say yes yeah and that feeling is you know they're always at what's the common question how do you know it's going to work right that's always the question yes how do you know it's going to work if they feel that too they won't ask that question exactly like if you're getting that question how do you know it's going to work you haven't made the connection you haven't landed it and it probably won't

939
00:29:17.169 --> 00:29:17.590
You know what?

940
00:29:17.810 --> 00:29:19.692
I want to make sure other creatives understand this.

941
00:29:19.833 --> 00:29:21.012
It's not always your fault.

942
00:29:21.053 --> 00:29:21.833
It's your fault!

943
00:29:21.993 --> 00:29:22.153
Like,

944
00:29:22.173 --> 00:29:24.216
it could be a great idea that you have.

945
00:29:24.536 --> 00:29:25.579
Maybe you're given the wrong problem.

946
00:29:25.657 --> 00:29:27.399
Maybe you've been given the wrong audience.

947
00:29:27.641 --> 00:29:27.884
You know,

948
00:29:27.962 --> 00:29:32.907
maybe the brief isn't solving the business problem that the client actually has.

949
00:29:33.126 --> 00:29:33.368
You know,

950
00:29:33.384 --> 00:29:35.368
I think a lot of the stars need to align,

951
00:29:35.509 --> 00:29:35.727
right?

952
00:29:35.790 --> 00:29:37.493
And that's why good briefs matter.

953
00:29:37.602 --> 00:29:39.649
That's why good problems to solve matter.

954
00:29:39.774 --> 00:29:40.009
You know,

955
00:29:40.055 --> 00:29:41.540
that's why this is a team sport.

956
00:29:41.649 --> 00:29:43.071
It's not just about the creative,

957
00:29:43.274 --> 00:29:45.134
even though a lot of people put it on the creatives.

958
00:29:45.325 --> 00:29:46.405
When you onto a good idea,

959
00:29:46.445 --> 00:29:46.905
you know it.

960
00:29:46.966 --> 00:29:47.265
It just,

961
00:29:47.345 --> 00:29:48.786
it's not always your fault if it doesn't sell,

962
00:29:48.787 --> 00:29:49.784
I would say to other creatives.

963
00:29:49.808 --> 00:29:50.167
Well,

964
00:29:50.168 --> 00:29:52.147
and I'd say like a lot of what you and I do is pitches.

965
00:29:52.327 --> 00:29:53.589
Like I think we did dozens,

966
00:29:53.706 --> 00:29:53.948
you know,

967
00:29:53.987 --> 00:29:54.870
already this year.

968
00:29:55.331 --> 00:29:58.511
And I feel so much satisfaction just like doing that good pitch,

969
00:29:58.730 --> 00:29:59.730
having the tension map.

970
00:29:59.831 --> 00:30:02.214
Like we do this thing where we do a tension map where there's,

971
00:30:02.448 --> 00:30:02.667
you know,

972
00:30:02.668 --> 00:30:03.323
an audience truth,

973
00:30:03.324 --> 00:30:04.167
a brand truth,

974
00:30:04.276 --> 00:30:05.526
the tension that's created,

975
00:30:05.573 --> 00:30:06.730
and then an insight.

976
00:30:06.948 --> 00:30:10.230
And then we develop from that like strategy and develop this out into ideas.

977
00:30:10.231 --> 00:30:10.745
But it's just like,

978
00:30:10.808 --> 00:30:11.292
it's wild,

979
00:30:11.323 --> 00:30:11.526
man.

980
00:30:11.651 --> 00:30:14.026
Like someone may never see over the.

981
00:30:14.433 --> 00:30:15.654
eons of human history.

982
00:30:16.015 --> 00:30:16.374
No one,

983
00:30:16.575 --> 00:30:16.816
you know,

984
00:30:16.855 --> 00:30:18.999
basically is going to see a lot of the stuff you and I have done,

985
00:30:19.300 --> 00:30:20.398
but I feel good about it still.

986
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:20.780
Yeah.

987
00:30:21.081 --> 00:30:21.441
Cause I'm like,

988
00:30:21.581 --> 00:30:22.042
we did it.

989
00:30:22.183 --> 00:30:23.425
Cause we had to struggle through it.

990
00:30:23.659 --> 00:30:23.784
Well,

991
00:30:23.785 --> 00:30:24.323
and it's good.

992
00:30:24.581 --> 00:30:24.722
Well,

993
00:30:24.723 --> 00:30:27.144
I guess you're saying the struggles helps establish the value.

994
00:30:27.269 --> 00:30:27.464
Yeah.

995
00:30:27.667 --> 00:30:28.667
We had to struggle through it.

996
00:30:28.730 --> 00:30:30.691
We had to go through those mental hurdles of like,

997
00:30:30.894 --> 00:30:31.597
is this good?

998
00:30:31.628 --> 00:30:32.925
I don't know if we've solved this yet.

999
00:30:32.988 --> 00:30:33.628
And then when you do,

1000
00:30:33.831 --> 00:30:34.675
it feels better.

1001
00:30:34.988 --> 00:30:36.300
I also feel just like I said,

1002
00:30:36.316 --> 00:30:37.534
like bulletproof or invincible,

1003
00:30:37.550 --> 00:30:38.831
like pick up any one of those pitches,

1004
00:30:39.144 --> 00:30:40.097
flip to the creative section.

1005
00:30:40.284 --> 00:30:40.644
That's good.

1006
00:30:40.816 --> 00:30:41.456
Those are good ideas.

1007
00:30:41.644 --> 00:30:41.753
Yeah.

1008
00:30:41.988 --> 00:30:42.441
They're all good.

1009
00:30:42.659 --> 00:30:43.456
Based on what we had.

1010
00:30:43.645 --> 00:30:45.166
A good parallel for people is like,

1011
00:30:45.265 --> 00:30:47.385
if anyone loves any sort of exercise,

1012
00:30:47.407 --> 00:30:47.887
you're a runner.

1013
00:30:48.106 --> 00:30:48.325
Yes.

1014
00:30:49.407 --> 00:30:52.325
You have to love the training to love the race.

1015
00:30:52.567 --> 00:30:52.864
You know?

1016
00:30:53.067 --> 00:30:53.231
Like,

1017
00:30:53.232 --> 00:30:54.567
you have to be in it for the training.

1018
00:30:54.786 --> 00:30:55.067
Yes.

1019
00:30:55.309 --> 00:30:55.965
Not for the race.

1020
00:30:56.309 --> 00:30:56.590
Well,

1021
00:30:57.005 --> 00:30:58.567
the most successful actor I know,

1022
00:30:58.809 --> 00:31:00.348
he's in tons of commercials,

1023
00:31:00.395 --> 00:31:01.270
does a ton of commercials,

1024
00:31:01.333 --> 00:31:02.255
and then a lot of photography.

1025
00:31:02.630 --> 00:31:04.176
You've actually worked with him on stuff.

1026
00:31:04.583 --> 00:31:06.286
He opened up to me and he was just like,

1027
00:31:06.426 --> 00:31:06.551
well,

1028
00:31:06.552 --> 00:31:07.458
my job's auditions.

1029
00:31:07.630 --> 00:31:07.770
Yeah.

1030
00:31:07.973 --> 00:31:08.255
He goes,

1031
00:31:08.270 --> 00:31:09.286
sometimes I get to shoot.

1032
00:31:09.395 --> 00:31:10.067
And that's pretty cool.

1033
00:31:10.176 --> 00:31:11.551
But the job is auditions.

1034
00:31:11.739 --> 00:31:11.911
Yeah.

1035
00:31:12.317 --> 00:31:12.614
Which is...

1036
00:31:12.873 --> 00:31:14.114
I feel like the same thing you're saying.

1037
00:31:14.155 --> 00:31:14.535
Exactly.

1038
00:31:14.615 --> 00:31:15.475
Exactly the same.

1039
00:31:15.555 --> 00:31:17.016
And you have to enjoy that part.

1040
00:31:17.356 --> 00:31:17.637
Yes.

1041
00:31:18.040 --> 00:31:22.063
And I've really come to enjoy being in the workshop and knowing I've done a good job.

1042
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:22.626
I also said,

1043
00:31:22.743 --> 00:31:23.641
I shared with you earlier,

1044
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:25.126
like I've been doing more home projects.

1045
00:31:25.329 --> 00:31:26.063
A lot of stuff I do,

1046
00:31:26.110 --> 00:31:26.805
nobody notices.

1047
00:31:27.204 --> 00:31:27.727
Nobody's seen.

1048
00:31:27.946 --> 00:31:29.266
And I don't even just mean my family.

1049
00:31:29.267 --> 00:31:29.907
I mean like guests,

1050
00:31:29.954 --> 00:31:30.298
whatever.

1051
00:31:30.469 --> 00:31:30.766
But like,

1052
00:31:30.798 --> 00:31:33.626
I know that that thing up in the attic shelves I built in the attic.

1053
00:31:34.516 --> 00:31:34.969
I did good.

1054
00:31:35.376 --> 00:31:35.532
Yeah.

1055
00:31:35.751 --> 00:31:36.782
Cause you're a craftsman too.

1056
00:31:37.251 --> 00:31:37.532
Right.

1057
00:31:37.704 --> 00:31:41.548
So it's like now when I talk to the other junior creatives on the team and stuff like

1058
00:31:41.689 --> 00:31:44.590
You have to be satisfied that you did your best work.

1059
00:31:44.889 --> 00:31:46.129
I remember a friend of mine,

1060
00:31:46.130 --> 00:31:46.711
you would love him.

1061
00:31:46.712 --> 00:31:46.969
This guy,

1062
00:31:47.031 --> 00:31:47.629
Corey Edwards,

1063
00:31:47.649 --> 00:31:48.551
he's a film director.

1064
00:31:49.012 --> 00:31:51.371
And I visited him when I moved out here like 12 years ago.

1065
00:31:51.434 --> 00:31:51.989
He's at this place,

1066
00:31:52.012 --> 00:31:52.754
Prana Studios.

1067
00:31:52.973 --> 00:31:57.817
And it was the first time I'd really seen where they have all the stuff built up for these animated films that never got made.

1068
00:31:58.067 --> 00:31:58.254
Okay,

1069
00:31:58.317 --> 00:31:59.192
they've got the models,

1070
00:31:59.535 --> 00:32:00.957
like painted full-size models,

1071
00:32:01.395 --> 00:32:01.989
the artwork,

1072
00:32:02.129 --> 00:32:03.114
all their pitch material.

1073
00:32:03.270 --> 00:32:04.989
And Corey basically expressed me in that moment.

1074
00:32:05.020 --> 00:32:06.692
I'm sure he said it in a very succinct way.

1075
00:32:07.020 --> 00:32:07.160
Like,

1076
00:32:07.161 --> 00:32:07.254
well,

1077
00:32:07.255 --> 00:32:07.379
yeah,

1078
00:32:07.380 --> 00:32:08.082
this is my job.

1079
00:32:08.379 --> 00:32:10.082
I feel really good about these movies,

1080
00:32:10.192 --> 00:32:11.301
all the movies he didn't make.

1081
00:32:11.758 --> 00:32:19.166
you know and you got to make movies but it's like with us I think of all the ads we didn't make and it's like you have to feel good about that and be satisfied that you

1082
00:32:19.802 --> 00:32:35.326
I can't remember who said this but this idea of like a well-written poem has it's like the click of a well-made box yeah exactly right it's really true you have to like that part of it and I think you identify good creative talent and strategic talent by people who relish

1083
00:32:35.357 --> 00:32:38.826
in that process and And the ones who shy away from it,

1084
00:32:39.029 --> 00:32:39.904
try to shortcut it.

1085
00:32:40.109 --> 00:32:42.351
or maybe more focused on the fame at the end,

1086
00:32:42.451 --> 00:32:43.613
or like you said earlier,

1087
00:32:43.912 --> 00:32:44.834
just want to get it done.

1088
00:32:45.053 --> 00:32:45.353
You know,

1089
00:32:45.553 --> 00:32:46.256
they don't last.

1090
00:32:46.756 --> 00:32:46.877
No,

1091
00:32:47.096 --> 00:32:48.295
or they get negative.

1092
00:32:48.654 --> 00:32:49.779
There's a lot of cynicism.

1093
00:32:49.982 --> 00:32:51.764
I think there's going to be less now because of this AI stuff.

1094
00:32:51.818 --> 00:32:52.060
Actually,

1095
00:32:52.061 --> 00:32:52.740
I think it'll help,

1096
00:32:52.881 --> 00:32:53.803
like what we were talking about earlier,

1097
00:32:53.804 --> 00:32:56.810
like it'll help raise the bar for the people that love it.

1098
00:32:56.967 --> 00:33:01.389
And then they now know there's no question they have to up their game,

1099
00:33:01.607 --> 00:33:03.045
but they actually enjoy upping their game.

1100
00:33:03.232 --> 00:33:03.732
So they will.

1101
00:33:03.733 --> 00:33:04.576
So everybody wins.

1102
00:33:04.810 --> 00:33:05.920
And the cynical types,

1103
00:33:06.342 --> 00:33:07.357
it'll grind them out.

1104
00:33:07.514 --> 00:33:07.732
Bye.

1105
00:33:07.889 --> 00:33:09.270
Because if you create any friction,

1106
00:33:09.371 --> 00:33:10.672
and I've said this to my team,

1107
00:33:10.893 --> 00:33:11.133
I go,

1108
00:33:11.172 --> 00:33:14.295
just know with an account manager or someone else that's using you as,

1109
00:33:14.296 --> 00:33:14.518
you know,

1110
00:33:14.814 --> 00:33:16.814
collaborating with you as a shared service,

1111
00:33:16.994 --> 00:33:19.018
if you provide any resistance,

1112
00:33:19.338 --> 00:33:19.838
good or bad,

1113
00:33:19.924 --> 00:33:21.502
like I was praising that you stand your ground,

1114
00:33:21.525 --> 00:33:22.307
which I still believe,

1115
00:33:22.807 --> 00:33:26.635
you just have to know that person's going to go to chat GPT and ask what they just asked you.

1116
00:33:27.010 --> 00:33:28.635
And you just got to be really confident.

1117
00:33:28.807 --> 00:33:29.385
Pick your battles.

1118
00:33:29.588 --> 00:33:29.947
For sure.

1119
00:33:30.229 --> 00:33:30.775
I'm a believer.

1120
00:33:31.057 --> 00:33:32.635
Advertising is a pretty negative industry.

1121
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:34.791
That's the part I don't like about it.

1122
00:33:34.838 --> 00:33:35.213
I agree.

1123
00:33:35.619 --> 00:33:36.400
Completely agree.

1124
00:33:36.697 --> 00:33:36.885
But.

1125
00:33:37.093 --> 00:33:37.534
there's a,

1126
00:33:37.974 --> 00:33:41.098
it's counterproductive and counterintuitive because why do you think it is?

1127
00:33:41.118 --> 00:33:43.481
You have to be optimistic to come up with good stuff.

1128
00:33:44.262 --> 00:33:46.504
Like you can't be a cynic because like you said,

1129
00:33:46.606 --> 00:33:47.645
ideas bring ideas.

1130
00:33:47.708 --> 00:33:51.848
Like you have to jump from one thing to the next and only by being optimistic,

1131
00:33:51.926 --> 00:33:52.450
can you jump?

1132
00:33:52.645 --> 00:33:56.270
It is an optimistic proposition to jump from one thing to the next thing.

1133
00:33:56.489 --> 00:33:56.911
You have to,

1134
00:33:57.067 --> 00:33:57.848
otherwise you're going to fall.

1135
00:33:57.879 --> 00:33:58.536
You wouldn't jump.

1136
00:33:58.708 --> 00:33:58.895
Yeah.

1137
00:33:59.036 --> 00:33:59.614
You wouldn't jump.

1138
00:33:59.958 --> 00:34:00.192
I mean,

1139
00:34:00.239 --> 00:34:05.864
I think it's a negative industry because it's very critical and people get really critical of craft.

1140
00:34:06.205 --> 00:34:11.238
And I also think advertising is full of creative people who don't want to be there.

1141
00:34:11.437 --> 00:34:14.066
Every art director wants to be a director of photography.

1142
00:34:14.504 --> 00:34:14.730
Well.

1143
00:34:15.027 --> 00:34:17.152
Every copywriter wants to be a script writer.

1144
00:34:17.585 --> 00:34:19.205
So let me tell you something for me.

1145
00:34:19.526 --> 00:34:20.446
And you've known me five years.

1146
00:34:20.526 --> 00:34:21.887
I say the first two years you knew me,

1147
00:34:22.227 --> 00:34:23.168
I was going negative.

1148
00:34:23.246 --> 00:34:23.926
I was burning out.

1149
00:34:24.086 --> 00:34:25.067
You might not have perceived it,

1150
00:34:25.125 --> 00:34:26.090
but I was on the inside.

1151
00:34:26.246 --> 00:34:27.825
And I reached this point of acceptance.

1152
00:34:28.090 --> 00:34:28.246
Like,

1153
00:34:28.247 --> 00:34:28.567
you know what?

1154
00:34:28.568 --> 00:34:29.926
I'm the head of creative at Oxford Road.

1155
00:34:29.965 --> 00:34:34.450
Did I wake up one day when I got my teeth originally knocked out and when I was in fifth grade and see a vision?

1156
00:34:35.621 --> 00:34:38.684
One day I want to be the head of creative at an audio performance.

1157
00:34:38.887 --> 00:34:39.012
No,

1158
00:34:39.403 --> 00:34:40.465
I wanted different things.

1159
00:34:40.715 --> 00:34:40.965
Okay.

1160
00:34:41.153 --> 00:34:41.950
At my age,

1161
00:34:42.325 --> 00:34:42.543
right?

1162
00:34:42.856 --> 00:34:43.278
It's like.

1163
00:34:43.557 --> 00:34:45.359
The unlock for me that happened in the last,

1164
00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:45.579
like,

1165
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:47.140
particularly three to four years.

1166
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:48.902
So right in the cusp of getting to know you,

1167
00:34:49.105 --> 00:34:50.964
and I think you can probably mark a change with me,

1168
00:34:51.066 --> 00:34:52.409
I bet about two to three years ago.

1169
00:34:52.410 --> 00:34:52.683
For sure.

1170
00:34:52.909 --> 00:34:55.652
Is where I made a decision to commit to my craft.

1171
00:34:55.667 --> 00:34:56.269
And for a while,

1172
00:34:56.308 --> 00:34:57.472
you've seen it in my Zoom calls,

1173
00:34:57.534 --> 00:34:59.527
there's a painting behind me of Odysseus.

1174
00:34:59.777 --> 00:35:00.855
And it's from the legend,

1175
00:35:00.856 --> 00:35:01.573
which I'm stoked for,

1176
00:35:01.620 --> 00:35:02.230
Christopher Nolan,

1177
00:35:02.370 --> 00:35:02.573
right?

1178
00:35:02.574 --> 00:35:02.995
It's coming out,

1179
00:35:02.996 --> 00:35:03.402
the Odyssey.

1180
00:35:03.542 --> 00:35:06.433
He burns this ore and he makes his deal with the gods and it goes,

1181
00:35:06.464 --> 00:35:08.761
go inland where they won't even recognize an ore,

1182
00:35:08.839 --> 00:35:09.495
burn the ore,

1183
00:35:09.730 --> 00:35:11.652
and commit to your craft and your home and your wife.

1184
00:35:11.839 --> 00:35:11.980
Yeah.

1185
00:35:12.349 --> 00:35:12.609
And like,

1186
00:35:12.629 --> 00:35:13.330
I had this moment,

1187
00:35:13.331 --> 00:35:14.171
it was about three or four years ago.

1188
00:35:14.172 --> 00:35:14.591
It was like,

1189
00:35:14.812 --> 00:35:15.011
okay,

1190
00:35:15.093 --> 00:35:16.554
what would a guy that was committed to this,

1191
00:35:16.593 --> 00:35:19.335
committed to be the best at this do?

1192
00:35:19.515 --> 00:35:20.058
What would he do?

1193
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:21.194
What would that character do?

1194
00:35:21.460 --> 00:35:21.577
Well,

1195
00:35:21.578 --> 00:35:22.562
he would listen to this.

1196
00:35:22.577 --> 00:35:23.398
He would read this.

1197
00:35:23.399 --> 00:35:24.140
He would do this.

1198
00:35:24.179 --> 00:35:24.944
But it was like,

1199
00:35:24.984 --> 00:35:25.944
I made a decision,

1200
00:35:25.999 --> 00:35:26.304
man.

1201
00:35:26.562 --> 00:35:27.741
And you've seen the fruit of that.

1202
00:35:27.905 --> 00:35:28.484
For sure.

1203
00:35:28.671 --> 00:35:30.421
You're so much more productive.

1204
00:35:30.734 --> 00:35:31.812
I would say is number one,

1205
00:35:31.813 --> 00:35:32.749
like you produce a lot,

1206
00:35:32.827 --> 00:35:33.062
you know,

1207
00:35:33.234 --> 00:35:34.937
creatives that don't produce get frustrated.

1208
00:35:35.374 --> 00:35:37.952
So I'm contrasting that with the character you're saying is like,

1209
00:35:37.999 --> 00:35:38.171
yeah,

1210
00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:40.171
that is the recipe for.

1211
00:35:40.549 --> 00:35:57.665
dissatisfaction and then resentment and then leaking that toxically on others is not accepting where you are like it's easier to be a bully right like there's a lot of bullies in advertising well and i think that what you're identifying those that is rooted in they don't want to be where they are yeah they wanted to be a

1212
00:35:57.728 --> 00:36:09.744
director or a filmmaker i mean it's the whole reason why i mean i could pick grapes with advertising all day but like one of my biggest is how ad agencies call ads films right it's not a film like you want it

1213
00:36:09.745 --> 00:36:11.247
to be a film because you want to,

1214
00:36:11.667 --> 00:36:12.428
but you do,

1215
00:36:12.569 --> 00:36:13.967
you want to go to Sundance and you want,

1216
00:36:13.991 --> 00:36:14.268
you're like,

1217
00:36:14.288 --> 00:36:15.350
you want it to be a film.

1218
00:36:15.413 --> 00:36:16.573
Why do you think Khan's at Khan?

1219
00:36:16.733 --> 00:36:16.971
You know,

1220
00:36:17.073 --> 00:36:17.252
like.

1221
00:36:17.553 --> 00:36:17.694
Well,

1222
00:36:17.695 --> 00:36:18.756
and I heard a guy say once,

1223
00:36:18.757 --> 00:36:18.991
he's like,

1224
00:36:18.992 --> 00:36:19.194
you know,

1225
00:36:19.233 --> 00:36:20.639
it's all a bunch of failed artists.

1226
00:36:20.678 --> 00:36:21.077
Exactly.

1227
00:36:21.616 --> 00:36:23.538
Which is one way of looking at it.

1228
00:36:23.663 --> 00:36:24.139
You know what?

1229
00:36:24.397 --> 00:36:25.702
The negative ones are that.

1230
00:36:26.006 --> 00:36:26.178
Yeah.

1231
00:36:26.600 --> 00:36:27.960
But the positive ones are like,

1232
00:36:28.210 --> 00:36:29.788
I guess that's one way to look at it.

1233
00:36:29.850 --> 00:36:30.913
Another way to look at it is like,

1234
00:36:30.944 --> 00:36:32.272
this is what I'm doing now.

1235
00:36:32.288 --> 00:36:32.413
Well,

1236
00:36:32.414 --> 00:36:37.835
the positive ones are either acceptance or they're making what they can out of it when they can,

1237
00:36:38.100 --> 00:36:38.335
you know?

1238
00:36:38.517 --> 00:36:38.657
Like,

1239
00:36:38.677 --> 00:36:38.837
sure,

1240
00:36:38.857 --> 00:36:40.239
there's the frustrated ones that get like,

1241
00:36:40.240 --> 00:36:41.520
they just accept it and they get on.

1242
00:36:41.641 --> 00:36:43.641
But like the positive ones are like,

1243
00:36:43.821 --> 00:36:44.063
all right,

1244
00:36:44.083 --> 00:36:46.325
this is the brief that I could make into something great.

1245
00:36:46.524 --> 00:36:47.008
Just do it.

1246
00:36:47.009 --> 00:36:47.204
You know,

1247
00:36:47.290 --> 00:36:48.727
this is the brief I could put me into.

1248
00:36:48.728 --> 00:36:48.969
Let's go.

1249
00:36:49.391 --> 00:36:52.852
Or they're also like you and me and everyone else who's more positive.

1250
00:36:52.868 --> 00:36:54.915
They're making stuff outside of work,

1251
00:36:55.008 --> 00:36:55.196
too.

1252
00:36:55.618 --> 00:36:55.899
Yes,

1253
00:36:56.196 --> 00:36:56.837
that's helpful.

1254
00:36:57.102 --> 00:37:00.399
Rick Rubin talks about how like your career doesn't have to be your passion,

1255
00:37:00.524 --> 00:37:00.680
too.

1256
00:37:00.821 --> 00:37:01.040
Like,

1257
00:37:01.041 --> 00:37:01.274
you know,

1258
00:37:01.321 --> 00:37:02.743
your art doesn't have to be your career.

1259
00:37:02.962 --> 00:37:05.587
You should still make stuff for the act of making it.

1260
00:37:05.749 --> 00:37:05.909
Well,

1261
00:37:05.910 --> 00:37:06.110
okay.

1262
00:37:06.111 --> 00:37:08.131
So like I did a fiction podcast in the last year,

1263
00:37:08.231 --> 00:37:09.572
Vampire Slayers from Kansas.

1264
00:37:10.055 --> 00:37:10.395
That's cool.

1265
00:37:10.953 --> 00:37:12.156
Took over two decades.

1266
00:37:12.278 --> 00:37:12.817
But it's funny.

1267
00:37:12.938 --> 00:37:15.239
I would say like in this same three-year period I'm telling you about,

1268
00:37:15.317 --> 00:37:16.598
there was a set of storyboards,

1269
00:37:16.723 --> 00:37:16.903
okay,

1270
00:37:16.918 --> 00:37:19.699
for this space epic called Rainfall City.

1271
00:37:19.965 --> 00:37:21.145
All right.

1272
00:37:21.403 --> 00:37:23.692
I stopped it around the same age.

1273
00:37:23.848 --> 00:37:24.473
I just stopped.

1274
00:37:24.910 --> 00:37:25.051
Yeah.

1275
00:37:25.489 --> 00:37:25.989
Four years ago,

1276
00:37:25.990 --> 00:37:26.551
I finished it.

1277
00:37:26.785 --> 00:37:27.457
And how did it feel?

1278
00:37:27.817 --> 00:37:28.254
Amazing.

1279
00:37:28.504 --> 00:37:29.035
And that was it.

1280
00:37:29.254 --> 00:37:29.957
And now it's like,

1281
00:37:30.020 --> 00:37:31.598
there's this like assembly line.

1282
00:37:31.725 --> 00:37:32.045
where I'm like,

1283
00:37:32.065 --> 00:37:32.186
oh,

1284
00:37:32.187 --> 00:37:32.706
I'm going to do that.

1285
00:37:32.726 --> 00:37:33.026
I'm going to,

1286
00:37:33.027 --> 00:37:34.028
I'll make the Whistler trailer.

1287
00:37:34.047 --> 00:37:34.588
I want to be fun.

1288
00:37:34.749 --> 00:37:37.069
My freaking identity isn't tied up in it.

1289
00:37:37.151 --> 00:37:38.233
But you like making it.

1290
00:37:38.350 --> 00:37:39.553
I enjoy making it.

1291
00:37:39.756 --> 00:37:42.897
But it was weird when I was frustrated in the advertising world.

1292
00:37:43.155 --> 00:37:43.600
I think so.

1293
00:37:43.601 --> 00:37:46.897
If like we're talking to the chief audio officers that are listening or other creatives that are listening,

1294
00:37:46.898 --> 00:37:48.366
it's kind of like what we're saying is like,

1295
00:37:48.397 --> 00:37:48.960
you know what?

1296
00:37:49.006 --> 00:37:51.288
Like take whatever those negative tapes are,

1297
00:37:51.397 --> 00:37:55.803
just take them out of the tape player for three months and just do the best you can,

1298
00:37:55.850 --> 00:37:58.616
like make the best thing you can with the widgets on your workbench.

1299
00:37:58.850 --> 00:37:59.631
Is that what you would say?

1300
00:38:00.006 --> 00:38:00.147
Yeah.

1301
00:38:00.497 --> 00:38:01.519
Or get out or quit.

1302
00:38:01.779 --> 00:38:02.000
You know,

1303
00:38:02.060 --> 00:38:03.883
when the good opportunities there make it,

1304
00:38:04.043 --> 00:38:08.612
do the other stuff you have to do with a smile on your face and do stuff outside of your work.

1305
00:38:08.932 --> 00:38:10.057
If you can't do it at work,

1306
00:38:10.197 --> 00:38:11.018
how many hours in a week?

1307
00:38:11.033 --> 00:38:11.916
You only work so much.

1308
00:38:13.182 --> 00:38:14.440
If you want ideas to be...

1309
00:38:15.221 --> 00:38:15.842
your career,

1310
00:38:16.482 --> 00:38:20.588
stay optimistic about it and remember why you got into it in the first place.

1311
00:38:20.845 --> 00:38:22.970
There's a lot worse things you could be doing,

1312
00:38:23.228 --> 00:38:24.228
a lot worse jobs.

1313
00:38:24.330 --> 00:38:28.197
You're pretty lucky to be able to do the creative stuff and just keep using your mind.

1314
00:38:28.674 --> 00:38:28.853
Yeah.

1315
00:38:29.072 --> 00:38:31.650
I think that's particularly important with the AI stuff.

1316
00:38:31.931 --> 00:38:32.994
I could talk to you forever.

1317
00:38:33.259 --> 00:38:34.338
This is awesome.

1318
00:38:34.478 --> 00:38:36.338
We got to get to the heart of ad infinitum.

1319
00:38:36.541 --> 00:38:37.119
Let's do it.

1320
00:38:37.181 --> 00:38:38.369
Which is actually creating some ads.

1321
00:38:38.370 --> 00:38:38.791
So yeah,

1322
00:38:38.931 --> 00:38:42.088
we're zooming in on one aspect of it because of Shopify and what we do with Shopify,

1323
00:38:42.384 --> 00:38:43.306
that being B2B,

1324
00:38:43.822 --> 00:38:44.838
business to business.

1325
00:38:45.121 --> 00:38:46.222
Wanted to zoom in on that.

1326
00:38:46.321 --> 00:38:48.861
A recent top spender at Magellan.

1327
00:38:48.862 --> 00:38:52.963
You can get a free demo for you mighty chief audio officers that are listening.

1328
00:38:53.045 --> 00:38:56.842
You can get a free demo at Magellan.ai slash ad infinitum.

1329
00:38:57.607 --> 00:38:59.842
That's where we pulled these air checks for IBM.

1330
00:39:00.021 --> 00:39:05.240
That was one that identified that what I noticed in looking at the spending is they had a decent amount of spend last year,

1331
00:39:05.241 --> 00:39:06.959
then they haven't spent at all this year.

1332
00:39:07.162 --> 00:39:09.381
And then it just popped up here in the middle of the summer.

1333
00:39:09.662 --> 00:39:10.490
Let's get into it.

1334
00:39:10.506 --> 00:39:14.162
This is the first IBM ad on what's right with Nick Wright.

1335
00:39:14.553 --> 00:39:15.093
From June 26th,

1336
00:39:15.094 --> 00:39:17.614
2025,

1337
00:39:17.615 --> 00:39:19.473
let's see if these have an insight.

1338
00:39:20.934 --> 00:39:23.716
The best AI assistant isn't one that knows the whole world.

1339
00:39:25.676 --> 00:39:27.098
It's one that knows your world.

1340
00:39:28.294 --> 00:39:33.411
A custom assistant built on Watson X with IBM's Granite models can leverage your trusted data,

1341
00:39:33.958 --> 00:39:35.692
be easily trained on your workflows,

1342
00:39:35.973 --> 00:39:37.145
and integrate with your apps.

1343
00:39:37.864 --> 00:39:39.723
It can be tuned to do just what you need,

1344
00:39:40.192 --> 00:39:41.895
because the more AI knows about your world,

1345
00:39:42.286 --> 00:39:43.145
the more it can help you do.

1346
00:39:44.246 --> 00:39:46.568
Learn more at IBM.com slash productivity.

1347
00:39:47.850 --> 00:39:48.250
IBM,

1348
00:39:48.629 --> 00:39:49.230
let's create.

1349
00:39:51.332 --> 00:39:51.734
All right,

1350
00:39:51.735 --> 00:39:52.574
the game is afoot.

1351
00:39:52.816 --> 00:39:53.832
I do like the line.

1352
00:39:54.035 --> 00:39:54.254
I mean,

1353
00:39:54.255 --> 00:39:54.933
I'm not going to be a,

1354
00:39:55.355 --> 00:39:58.801
I hate those creatives that just say everything's shit that they don't make.

1355
00:40:00.605 --> 00:40:01.762
So I'm not going to do that.

1356
00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:06.902
I do like the line about the best AI assistant isn't the one that knows the whole world.

1357
00:40:07.105 --> 00:40:08.230
It knows your world.

1358
00:40:08.465 --> 00:40:11.933
I think that reframes what AI does a little bit for people.

1359
00:40:12.012 --> 00:40:13.308
I think it's the whole idea.

1360
00:40:13.541 --> 00:40:38.622
personalization i think is i think they're on to something there i don't always buy into like just the creating lists about what it does did you like the groovy music track i'm not musical at all but yeah i could go without that okay hey let me ask you this was that a pretty spot this is a pretty spot for sure running away in the podcast what's right with nick wright and the episode nick wright reacts to nba draft

1361
00:40:38.713 --> 00:40:41.997
Cooper flag Maverick still in Harper Spurs ace Bailey failing.

1362
00:40:42.177 --> 00:40:42.298
Yeah,

1363
00:40:42.299 --> 00:40:44.860
I think it's wrong for the channel here You can't see this,

1364
00:40:44.899 --> 00:40:45.739
but I'm showing Shelby.

1365
00:40:46.060 --> 00:40:48.044
So pre-roll I see one two,

1366
00:40:48.122 --> 00:40:50.567
three four four ads in the pre-roll Yep,

1367
00:40:50.724 --> 00:40:51.583
and then I got a mid roll.

1368
00:40:51.825 --> 00:40:51.950
Yeah,

1369
00:40:51.989 --> 00:40:55.403
this is the thing We're still calling stuff mid rolls and this I have an axe grind on this.

1370
00:40:55.575 --> 00:40:56.544
How many mid rolls do you see?

1371
00:40:57.747 --> 00:40:57.966
Right,

1372
00:40:58.028 --> 00:40:58.247
okay.

1373
00:40:58.466 --> 00:40:59.575
There's three pods.

1374
00:40:59.841 --> 00:41:02.122
There's three pods and then there's one two,

1375
00:41:02.231 --> 00:41:08.028
three four post rolls Okay So which one of these is a mid roll and then you can kind of see like that looks like a 60 and a 60

1376
00:41:08.490 --> 00:41:08.630
1,

1377
00:41:08.690 --> 00:41:08.810
2,

1378
00:41:08.990 --> 00:41:09.190
3,

1379
00:41:09.371 --> 00:41:09.511
4,

1380
00:41:09.570 --> 00:41:10.011
5,

1381
00:41:10.271 --> 00:41:10.470
6,

1382
00:41:10.552 --> 00:41:10.771
7,

1383
00:41:10.812 --> 00:41:10.931
8,

1384
00:41:10.951 --> 00:41:11.193
9,

1385
00:41:11.252 --> 00:41:11.412
10,

1386
00:41:11.431 --> 00:41:11.732
11,

1387
00:41:11.793 --> 00:41:12.094
12,

1388
00:41:12.113 --> 00:41:12.353
13,

1389
00:41:12.392 --> 00:41:12.834
14,

1390
00:41:12.853 --> 00:41:13.314
15,

1391
00:41:13.494 --> 00:41:13.775
16,

1392
00:41:13.776 --> 00:41:14.154
17,

1393
00:41:14.155 --> 00:41:14.334
18,

1394
00:41:14.396 --> 00:41:14.595
19,

1395
00:41:14.814 --> 00:41:15.017
20,

1396
00:41:15.018 --> 00:41:15.256
21,

1397
00:41:15.257 --> 00:41:15.576
22,

1398
00:41:15.577 --> 00:41:15.857
23,

1399
00:41:15.858 --> 00:41:16.279
24,

1400
00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:16.740
25,

1401
00:41:16.795 --> 00:41:16.998
26.

1402
00:41:17.177 --> 00:41:18.537
Sounds like a radio show.

1403
00:41:18.756 --> 00:41:19.217
Exactly.

1404
00:41:19.537 --> 00:41:19.677
Like,

1405
00:41:19.701 --> 00:41:20.920
I'm not even talking about the creative.

1406
00:41:20.921 --> 00:41:23.826
It's just they're missing a massive opportunity in the channel.

1407
00:41:24.248 --> 00:41:24.381
Look,

1408
00:41:24.427 --> 00:41:26.474
it's easy to port over radio.

1409
00:41:26.943 --> 00:41:27.474
Creative.

1410
00:41:27.724 --> 00:41:28.427
So that's one thing.

1411
00:41:28.506 --> 00:41:29.287
I also wanted to point out,

1412
00:41:29.288 --> 00:41:29.506
like,

1413
00:41:29.724 --> 00:41:30.771
I hear what you're saying.

1414
00:41:31.006 --> 00:41:35.131
I also feel like there's an undercurrent of creepiness that it knows your world.

1415
00:41:35.530 --> 00:41:37.251
And because the more AI know,

1416
00:41:37.292 --> 00:41:38.512
and I'm not like an anti,

1417
00:41:38.592 --> 00:41:38.913
I'm like,

1418
00:41:38.952 --> 00:41:39.313
whatever,

1419
00:41:39.354 --> 00:41:40.354
like all my stuff's open,

1420
00:41:40.393 --> 00:41:40.893
like whatever.

1421
00:41:41.034 --> 00:41:41.155
Yeah.

1422
00:41:41.175 --> 00:41:41.936
You're pretty pro AI.

1423
00:41:42.335 --> 00:41:42.514
Yeah.

1424
00:41:42.678 --> 00:41:43.397
But you know,

1425
00:41:43.655 --> 00:41:45.483
the more AI knows about your world,

1426
00:41:45.484 --> 00:41:46.882
the more it can help you do like there.

1427
00:41:46.921 --> 00:41:49.186
I could see it rubbing some people the wrong way.

1428
00:41:49.444 --> 00:41:49.905
Yeah.

1429
00:41:49.906 --> 00:41:52.171
And it's not really clear on what they mean by that.

1430
00:41:52.311 --> 00:41:52.452
Yeah.

1431
00:41:52.453 --> 00:41:58.655
It's a bit loose and it's not really single-minded in service to a really clear problem.

1432
00:41:59.046 --> 00:42:00.452
Let's do this before you grade it.

1433
00:42:00.569 --> 00:42:01.350
And before I give you audio,

1434
00:42:01.390 --> 00:42:02.851
let's listen to another one.

1435
00:42:02.931 --> 00:42:06.474
So this is IBM on how I built this with Guy Raz within seven days.

1436
00:42:06.537 --> 00:42:09.658
This is on 6-19-2025.

1437
00:42:09.659 --> 00:42:11.142
Bigger isn't always better,

1438
00:42:11.337 --> 00:42:12.642
especially with AI.

1439
00:42:13.119 --> 00:42:16.502
Supersized models can drain your budget fast.

1440
00:42:16.884 --> 00:42:22.134
Smaller ones are smart and can help cut AI costs up to 90%.

1441
00:42:22.135 --> 00:42:24.666
Right-size your models at IBM.com.

1442
00:42:25.150 --> 00:42:26.962
The AI built for business.

1443
00:42:27.494 --> 00:42:27.853
IBM.

1444
00:42:29.777 --> 00:42:31.940
So that sounded like it was Guy Raz,

1445
00:42:32.343 --> 00:42:33.284
but he didn't identify.

1446
00:42:33.605 --> 00:42:34.464
Missed opportunity.

1447
00:42:35.968 --> 00:42:37.171
Probably price opportunity.

1448
00:42:37.491 --> 00:42:37.612
Yeah,

1449
00:42:37.710 --> 00:42:38.034
I mean.

1450
00:42:38.854 --> 00:42:58.680
yeah probably price opportunity look less ads though nine total ads i mean it would feel more obviously if it's his voice in his show it feels more genuine and connected to it feels more trusted but there's no i don't know like what authority does guy raz have on ai like does he know a lot about it they built it but he doesn't talk about it like

1451
00:42:58.681 --> 00:43:05.836
that would be interesting if he was like i don't know the context of what episode it was on but if it was in an episode all about ai like maybe it would have made sense

1452
00:43:06.178 --> 00:43:06.378
Yeah.

1453
00:43:06.379 --> 00:43:07.579
Or maybe like that line,

1454
00:43:07.580 --> 00:43:08.020
he said,

1455
00:43:08.180 --> 00:43:08.440
you know,

1456
00:43:08.520 --> 00:43:10.624
supersized models can drain your budget fast.

1457
00:43:10.682 --> 00:43:13.225
Like in the case of many companies we've talked about on this,

1458
00:43:13.226 --> 00:43:13.346
da,

1459
00:43:13.347 --> 00:43:13.464
da,

1460
00:43:13.465 --> 00:43:13.585
da.

1461
00:43:13.725 --> 00:43:13.866
Yeah.

1462
00:43:13.967 --> 00:43:15.389
Just somehow link it.

1463
00:43:15.491 --> 00:43:17.686
Relating it back to what he talks about.

1464
00:43:17.952 --> 00:43:18.350
You know what?

1465
00:43:18.506 --> 00:43:19.069
Let's do this.

1466
00:43:19.288 --> 00:43:23.538
We're actually going to listen to the next two so you can talk about them all together because what I want to get at is,

1467
00:43:23.913 --> 00:43:24.397
is there

1468
00:43:24.991 --> 00:43:27.600
IBM Insight that's driving their audio,

1469
00:43:27.725 --> 00:43:28.663
the way they're showing up with audio?

1470
00:43:28.694 --> 00:43:29.506
So you have these two.

1471
00:43:29.803 --> 00:43:30.725
So here's the next one.

1472
00:43:30.741 --> 00:43:34.491
This is IBM on pivot on 6-27-2025.

1473
00:43:36.718 --> 00:43:38.861
Support for Pivot comes from IBM.

1474
00:43:39.380 --> 00:43:40.380
Bigger isn't always better,

1475
00:43:40.441 --> 00:43:41.462
especially with AI.

1476
00:43:41.861 --> 00:43:44.205
Supersized models can drain your budget fast.

1477
00:43:44.525 --> 00:43:48.830
Smaller ones are smart and can help cut AI costs up to 90%.

1478
00:43:48.853 --> 00:43:51.455
Right-size your models at IBM.com.

1479
00:43:51.830 --> 00:43:53.501
The AI built for business.

1480
00:43:53.908 --> 00:43:54.283
IBM.

1481
00:43:56.970 --> 00:43:58.314
I recognize that script.

1482
00:43:58.673 --> 00:43:58.798
Yeah,

1483
00:43:58.799 --> 00:44:00.486
they're not letting them put it in their voice,

1484
00:44:00.517 --> 00:44:00.783
are they?

1485
00:44:01.080 --> 00:44:02.361
It's interesting though that Pivot,

1486
00:44:02.376 --> 00:44:03.345
they did the music.

1487
00:44:03.548 --> 00:44:04.408
And that's Kara Swisher.

1488
00:44:04.798 --> 00:44:05.423
That's the host.

1489
00:44:05.689 --> 00:44:05.814
Yeah.

1490
00:44:05.930 --> 00:44:08.533
I don't mind when someone has put music under their reads.

1491
00:44:08.773 --> 00:44:09.753
Some do it in an okay way.

1492
00:44:09.754 --> 00:44:10.957
Do you want to listen to the last one,

1493
00:44:10.958 --> 00:44:11.574
then we rate them all?

1494
00:44:11.656 --> 00:44:11.875
Let's do it.

1495
00:44:11.876 --> 00:44:12.394
All right,

1496
00:44:12.515 --> 00:44:12.777
IBM,

1497
00:44:12.836 --> 00:44:14.800
this is your last chance with Shelby from the future.

1498
00:44:15.082 --> 00:44:18.621
IBM on today in focus on 6-22-2025.

1499
00:44:18.622 --> 00:44:19.363
It's important to note,

1500
00:44:19.364 --> 00:44:19.503
like,

1501
00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:24.207
these all were between 6-19-2025 and 6-27-2025.

1502
00:44:24.222 --> 00:44:25.347
We're talking about observations.

1503
00:44:25.628 --> 00:44:25.910
Here we go.

1504
00:44:27.269 --> 00:44:27.457
Test,

1505
00:44:27.488 --> 00:44:27.769
test,

1506
00:44:27.894 --> 00:44:28.347
check one,

1507
00:44:28.410 --> 00:44:28.628
two.

1508
00:44:29.691 --> 00:44:31.441
You know you need unique New York.

1509
00:44:31.660 --> 00:44:33.238
You know you need unique New York.

1510
00:44:34.191 --> 00:44:35.535
Does that sound all right?

1511
00:44:38.122 --> 00:44:38.362
Ah,

1512
00:44:38.562 --> 00:44:39.123
that's better.

1513
00:44:40.984 --> 00:44:44.049
You can always tell something's missing when you get isolated results.

1514
00:44:44.806 --> 00:44:47.353
Like AI that's only right for one of your systems.

1515
00:44:47.931 --> 00:44:50.994
Get AI that can work across your data and applications.

1516
00:44:51.556 --> 00:44:53.197
Learn more at IBM.com.

1517
00:44:53.198 --> 00:44:55.455
The AI built for business.

1518
00:44:55.845 --> 00:44:56.283
IBM.

1519
00:44:57.908 --> 00:44:58.283
Okay.

1520
00:44:58.783 --> 00:44:59.189
All right.

1521
00:44:59.549 --> 00:45:00.986
That one added sound at the end.

1522
00:45:01.205 --> 00:45:01.361
Bum,

1523
00:45:01.486 --> 00:45:01.658
bum,

1524
00:45:01.783 --> 00:45:02.033
bum.

1525
00:45:02.392 --> 00:45:02.502
Hey,

1526
00:45:02.627 --> 00:45:02.767
cool.

1527
00:45:02.768 --> 00:45:03.611
They used that at the end.

1528
00:45:03.970 --> 00:45:04.783
So that's the four.

1529
00:45:05.049 --> 00:45:06.611
I'm guessing he personalized that one.

1530
00:45:06.998 --> 00:45:07.839
It sounded like it to me,

1531
00:45:07.939 --> 00:45:08.640
like that whole

1532
00:45:08.999 --> 00:45:09.441
New York,

1533
00:45:09.640 --> 00:45:11.261
unique New York is like a voiceover,

1534
00:45:11.562 --> 00:45:12.163
like a warmup.

1535
00:45:12.363 --> 00:45:12.503
Yeah.

1536
00:45:12.624 --> 00:45:13.245
I don't get it,

1537
00:45:13.464 --> 00:45:13.663
but.

1538
00:45:14.066 --> 00:45:14.804
I didn't get it either.

1539
00:45:14.968 --> 00:45:16.968
It does sound like he started to personalize it.

1540
00:45:17.031 --> 00:45:17.765
I don't listen to his show,

1541
00:45:17.827 --> 00:45:18.468
so I don't know him.

1542
00:45:18.773 --> 00:45:20.351
Maybe that means something to his audience.

1543
00:45:20.554 --> 00:45:21.054
It could.

1544
00:45:21.312 --> 00:45:21.851
And if it does,

1545
00:45:21.913 --> 00:45:22.132
cool.

1546
00:45:22.491 --> 00:45:22.671
Well,

1547
00:45:22.734 --> 00:45:23.616
it was half the ad.

1548
00:45:23.757 --> 00:45:23.898
Yeah.

1549
00:45:24.101 --> 00:45:25.257
But I don't get the connection.

1550
00:45:25.601 --> 00:45:26.632
I didn't totally get it either.

1551
00:45:26.945 --> 00:45:31.226
So if you're going to rate them from that first one was the produce spot.

1552
00:45:31.335 --> 00:45:34.460
And then we had the same one that was on how I built this and pivot.

1553
00:45:34.538 --> 00:45:35.523
And then this last one.

1554
00:45:35.802 --> 00:45:36.842
what would be your rank order?

1555
00:45:37.162 --> 00:45:39.063
I'd probably rank the first one best.

1556
00:45:39.542 --> 00:45:40.702
There's a bit more craft to it.

1557
00:45:40.983 --> 00:45:42.764
It says something in a way

1558
00:45:43.143 --> 00:45:45.366
I haven't totally heard before about AI.

1559
00:45:45.483 --> 00:45:45.905
You know,

1560
00:45:46.061 --> 00:45:49.561
like it's trying to teach me something or enlighten me on something.

1561
00:45:49.702 --> 00:45:49.944
You know,

1562
00:45:49.945 --> 00:45:50.522
that first line,

1563
00:45:50.523 --> 00:45:53.264
the best AI assistant isn't one that knows the whole world.

1564
00:45:53.499 --> 00:45:54.749
It's the one that knows your world.

1565
00:45:54.827 --> 00:45:55.030
Like,

1566
00:45:55.092 --> 00:46:02.467
I feel like that's trying to get people to think about it in a new way or just catch people's attention and just make them think about AI.

1567
00:46:02.780 --> 00:46:04.592
The other two don't make me think about AI.

1568
00:46:04.967 --> 00:46:05.483
I don't love...

1569
00:46:05.710 --> 00:46:28.433
when a brand uses something that's like bigger isn't always better you get in a chain tent and pretty much any product or anything i thought it was an ad for trucks exactly they could have taken the sentiment of that and just changed it in a little bit of a way like yeah i haven't thought about it that way it doesn't do that for me so the guy ross cariswisher one you'd put at the bottom or i'd say at the bottom oh at the very bottom okay

1570
00:46:28.606 --> 00:46:31.208
And then the next one up is Today in Focus,

1571
00:46:31.288 --> 00:46:34.312
which was the one we just listened to where he did the unique New York.

1572
00:46:34.370 --> 00:46:35.671
Because at least he personalized it.

1573
00:46:36.132 --> 00:46:37.277
So here's what's interesting.

1574
00:46:37.433 --> 00:46:39.378
I'm not rating the personalization as good,

1575
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:40.597
but at least he did.

1576
00:46:41.034 --> 00:46:41.199
Yeah.

1577
00:46:41.200 --> 00:46:41.800
And to your point,

1578
00:46:41.816 --> 00:46:45.769
it's kind of like that might actually buy you some attention.

1579
00:46:46.238 --> 00:46:47.941
Even though the sales message is shorter,

1580
00:46:48.222 --> 00:46:48.706
they stayed.

1581
00:46:48.878 --> 00:46:49.363
I would hope so.

1582
00:46:49.566 --> 00:46:49.784
Right.

1583
00:46:50.034 --> 00:46:50.691
That would be the thought.

1584
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:50.925
Yeah,

1585
00:46:50.988 --> 00:46:51.503
that'd be a theory.

1586
00:46:51.847 --> 00:46:52.691
So it's the same order.

1587
00:46:52.972 --> 00:46:56.316
Audiolytics gave What's Right with Nick Wright number one.

1588
00:46:57.614 --> 00:46:58.715
And I think it's the clearest.

1589
00:46:58.995 --> 00:47:00.536
It has all the key points in there.

1590
00:47:00.796 --> 00:47:01.819
It's got the call to action.

1591
00:47:02.077 --> 00:47:03.601
And like we say a lot on ad infinitum,

1592
00:47:03.659 --> 00:47:05.120
clarity has a cleverness all of its own.

1593
00:47:05.300 --> 00:47:05.905
So it does that.

1594
00:47:06.124 --> 00:47:09.304
And then the next one is the one that we were just talking about,

1595
00:47:09.327 --> 00:47:12.390
where it's like it had the bit of personalization today in focus.

1596
00:47:12.726 --> 00:47:13.991
And that might be good.

1597
00:47:14.022 --> 00:47:14.226
I mean,

1598
00:47:14.227 --> 00:47:15.976
it's got enough of the sales message.

1599
00:47:15.991 --> 00:47:16.726
There could be more,

1600
00:47:16.772 --> 00:47:17.413
there could be more,

1601
00:47:17.429 --> 00:47:24.757
but at least it did that where the other two at the bottom pivot and how I built this both just left a lot to be desired,

1602
00:47:24.804 --> 00:47:26.601
especially with what they left out.

1603
00:47:27.094 --> 00:47:28.417
Just no personalization.

1604
00:47:28.476 --> 00:47:28.857
For sure.

1605
00:47:29.058 --> 00:47:29.879
It wasn't their voice.

1606
00:47:29.898 --> 00:47:31.361
So what I'm hearing is like,

1607
00:47:31.603 --> 00:47:32.826
and I'd like to get your thought on this,

1608
00:47:32.962 --> 00:47:34.927
is do you hear an insight in any of this?

1609
00:47:35.166 --> 00:47:35.791
And then two,

1610
00:47:36.228 --> 00:47:38.392
Today in Focus has a Sonic logo at the end.

1611
00:47:38.431 --> 00:47:38.775
The sound of...

1612
00:47:38.814 --> 00:47:40.196
Like it had a Sonic logo at the end,

1613
00:47:40.276 --> 00:47:42.098
which I don't know if I've heard before for IBM.

1614
00:47:42.237 --> 00:47:45.301
The two host red ones were kind of flat and they didn't do PE,

1615
00:47:45.641 --> 00:47:46.403
personal endorsement.

1616
00:47:46.621 --> 00:47:47.899
And in the produced ones,

1617
00:47:47.922 --> 00:47:49.625
like using a jazzy music track.

1618
00:47:51.547 --> 00:47:53.024
So it felt idiosyncratic.

1619
00:47:53.211 --> 00:47:53.571
For sure.

1620
00:47:53.586 --> 00:47:53.789
I mean,

1621
00:47:53.828 --> 00:47:56.867
even the first one had a different tagline than the other ones.

1622
00:47:57.008 --> 00:47:57.633
The other ones say,

1623
00:47:57.899 --> 00:47:58.977
the AI built for business,

1624
00:47:59.117 --> 00:47:59.399
IBM.

1625
00:47:59.508 --> 00:48:00.242
The first one says,

1626
00:48:00.367 --> 00:48:00.680
IBM,

1627
00:48:00.711 --> 00:48:01.242
let's create.

1628
00:48:01.477 --> 00:48:02.805
Even at a scripting level,

1629
00:48:02.852 --> 00:48:03.805
they're disconnected.

1630
00:48:03.977 --> 00:48:06.086
So what's your advice for IBM?

1631
00:48:06.270 --> 00:48:07.951
For the chief audio officers at IBM,

1632
00:48:08.072 --> 00:48:08.773
Shelby Hayden Gregg,

1633
00:48:08.933 --> 00:48:09.654
what is your advice?

1634
00:48:09.952 --> 00:48:18.863
Define the core business problem you're trying to solve and then trust your strategist or agency to find what that problem means for people,

1635
00:48:19.081 --> 00:48:19.323
you know,

1636
00:48:19.324 --> 00:48:19.800
your customer,

1637
00:48:19.823 --> 00:48:20.347
your audience.

1638
00:48:21.503 --> 00:48:26.511
So help trust their translation of the problem for your business into a problem for humans.

1639
00:48:26.667 --> 00:48:28.714
And then let them try to solve that with an idea.

1640
00:48:28.933 --> 00:48:31.870
Because right now it feels like we're just trying to hit some proof points,

1641
00:48:32.073 --> 00:48:32.589
which we'll get to.

1642
00:48:32.839 --> 00:48:34.823
But let them come up with the idea first.

1643
00:48:35.146 --> 00:48:37.948
And where do you come down on a sonic identity system,

1644
00:48:37.969 --> 00:48:40.651
which I know is a fancy way of saying recognizing

1645
00:48:41.073 --> 00:48:42.174
IBM with their eyes closed?

1646
00:48:42.432 --> 00:48:42.635
Well,

1647
00:48:42.636 --> 00:48:43.510
I know IBM has one.

1648
00:48:43.838 --> 00:48:44.994
You should be using it for sure.

1649
00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:46.034
They do.

1650
00:48:46.401 --> 00:48:48.080
IBM has a really strong brand.

1651
00:48:48.276 --> 00:48:49.237
So I think.

1652
00:48:49.377 --> 00:48:49.557
Well,

1653
00:48:49.619 --> 00:48:50.479
did you just hear one?

1654
00:48:50.604 --> 00:48:50.799
Yeah.

1655
00:48:50.862 --> 00:48:52.651
Like if we were to translate into visuals,

1656
00:48:52.948 --> 00:48:55.338
that was three different approaches.

1657
00:48:55.588 --> 00:48:55.744
Yeah,

1658
00:48:55.823 --> 00:48:56.119
totally.

1659
00:48:56.291 --> 00:48:57.994
Which I guess you could make a case for.

1660
00:48:58.244 --> 00:48:58.682
However,

1661
00:48:58.807 --> 00:49:00.494
I think these are all more the same than different.

1662
00:49:00.495 --> 00:49:00.744
I mean,

1663
00:49:00.776 --> 00:49:01.276
the medium,

1664
00:49:01.369 --> 00:49:02.088
it's podcast.

1665
00:49:02.291 --> 00:49:03.979
So how are you going to show up in podcast?

1666
00:49:04.186 --> 00:49:04.386
Yeah.

1667
00:49:04.426 --> 00:49:04.666
I mean,

1668
00:49:04.667 --> 00:49:05.866
they do feel like they're,

1669
00:49:06.406 --> 00:49:08.828
even though the format's different for each,

1670
00:49:09.027 --> 00:49:11.426
they don't feel like they're coming from the same brief either.

1671
00:49:11.828 --> 00:49:12.531
So like,

1672
00:49:12.687 --> 00:49:12.867
sure,

1673
00:49:12.890 --> 00:49:13.750
they should be different.

1674
00:49:13.906 --> 00:49:16.445
A produce spot should be different than your short host read.

1675
00:49:16.492 --> 00:49:20.304
And it should be different than your real podcast spot that's endorsed.

1676
00:49:20.554 --> 00:49:21.508
But at the end of the day,

1677
00:49:21.554 --> 00:49:24.351
like they all still should come from the same idea and the same theme,

1678
00:49:24.476 --> 00:49:25.195
the same insight,

1679
00:49:25.258 --> 00:49:25.492
you know,

1680
00:49:25.633 --> 00:49:26.054
above that,

1681
00:49:26.070 --> 00:49:26.758
the same problem,

1682
00:49:26.804 --> 00:49:27.054
you know,

1683
00:49:27.195 --> 00:49:29.367
your job at IBM is what's the problem.

1684
00:49:29.508 --> 00:49:30.836
And then let us help solve it for you.

1685
00:49:31.211 --> 00:49:31.398
Hear,

1686
00:49:31.476 --> 00:49:31.664
hear.

1687
00:49:31.994 --> 00:49:33.474
We could do this all day.

1688
00:49:33.475 --> 00:49:34.474
We basically have.

1689
00:49:34.654 --> 00:49:35.595
There's a lot to talk about.

1690
00:49:35.614 --> 00:49:36.476
There's a lot to talk about.

1691
00:49:36.515 --> 00:49:42.034
So what parting words of wisdom do you have in general for the chief audio officers that are listening?

1692
00:49:42.355 --> 00:49:44.136
Shelby from the future in the present.

1693
00:49:44.378 --> 00:49:44.620
I mean,

1694
00:49:44.636 --> 00:49:48.300
I kind of have like three themes for doing what we do.

1695
00:49:48.644 --> 00:49:49.862
The first one is creating.

1696
00:49:50.222 --> 00:49:51.425
Create three C's for me.

1697
00:49:51.675 --> 00:49:52.066
Create,

1698
00:49:52.191 --> 00:49:52.534
craft,

1699
00:49:52.566 --> 00:49:53.066
and care.

1700
00:49:53.456 --> 00:49:54.816
So make stuff,

1701
00:49:55.206 --> 00:49:55.581
write it,

1702
00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:56.316
write it down.

1703
00:49:56.503 --> 00:49:57.034
Use your brain,

1704
00:49:57.284 --> 00:49:57.534
you know,

1705
00:49:57.878 --> 00:49:58.472
do it yourself.

1706
00:49:58.612 --> 00:49:59.472
Flex that muscle.

1707
00:50:00.714 --> 00:50:02.516
all those muscles that help you make things,

1708
00:50:02.836 --> 00:50:04.598
and then apply some craft,

1709
00:50:04.656 --> 00:50:04.918
you know?

1710
00:50:05.219 --> 00:50:06.340
So polish it,

1711
00:50:07.020 --> 00:50:07.480
test it,

1712
00:50:07.742 --> 00:50:08.898
let somebody else look at it,

1713
00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:09.945
get another opinion,

1714
00:50:10.062 --> 00:50:10.687
workshop it,

1715
00:50:10.867 --> 00:50:12.406
throw it in the bin and start again.

1716
00:50:12.469 --> 00:50:12.648
Like,

1717
00:50:12.844 --> 00:50:13.648
keep crafting,

1718
00:50:14.070 --> 00:50:14.984
because at the end of the day,

1719
00:50:15.289 --> 00:50:18.094
it's only through that repetitive process that we make stuff better.

1720
00:50:18.344 --> 00:50:19.547
Every artist could relate to that.

1721
00:50:19.672 --> 00:50:20.437
And then ultimately,

1722
00:50:20.531 --> 00:50:21.672
care about what you're doing.

1723
00:50:21.812 --> 00:50:22.078
You know,

1724
00:50:22.094 --> 00:50:24.484
I think we can't do any of this if we don't care.

1725
00:50:24.641 --> 00:50:24.875
You know,

1726
00:50:24.953 --> 00:50:27.484
I truly care about the work that I put out.

1727
00:50:27.625 --> 00:50:28.844
You have to care about it.

1728
00:50:29.125 --> 00:50:29.578
And I think...

1729
00:50:29.874 --> 00:50:31.055
not just us as the creatives,

1730
00:50:31.095 --> 00:50:33.738
but like you as chief audio officers and clients,

1731
00:50:33.777 --> 00:50:35.300
like care about what we're doing.

1732
00:50:35.378 --> 00:50:35.839
You have to.

1733
00:50:36.101 --> 00:50:37.023
If you don't care about it,

1734
00:50:37.024 --> 00:50:38.304
how do you expect me to care about it?

1735
00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:39.702
Because my job is to care about it.

1736
00:50:39.703 --> 00:50:41.023
And I think it comes through somehow.

1737
00:50:41.242 --> 00:50:41.382
Yeah.

1738
00:50:41.562 --> 00:50:41.804
You know,

1739
00:50:42.062 --> 00:50:42.445
make stuff,

1740
00:50:42.507 --> 00:50:43.788
make it better and do it with heart.

1741
00:50:43.804 --> 00:50:44.124
I think,

1742
00:50:44.125 --> 00:50:44.351
you know,

1743
00:50:44.390 --> 00:50:46.984
you should care about all this stuff.

1744
00:50:47.390 --> 00:50:49.531
I think sometimes we get too in our head,

1745
00:50:49.921 --> 00:50:53.093
too embedded in our businesses or in our brands or our product.

1746
00:50:53.390 --> 00:50:54.531
But like the way out of that,

1747
00:50:54.593 --> 00:50:55.734
it's just caring a little more.

1748
00:50:55.974 --> 00:50:56.634
I think that's right.

1749
00:50:56.635 --> 00:50:59.558
And that's what we were talking about that earlier when I was talking about like the decision point,

1750
00:50:59.757 --> 00:50:59.980
like,

1751
00:50:59.981 --> 00:51:00.218
you know,

1752
00:51:00.237 --> 00:51:01.640
create craft and care.

1753
00:51:01.659 --> 00:51:02.159
I like that.

1754
00:51:02.160 --> 00:51:03.402
And the Karen piece is like,

1755
00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:05.144
you decide to care.

1756
00:51:05.503 --> 00:51:06.566
That's a choice you have to make.

1757
00:51:06.605 --> 00:51:07.128
And it's like,

1758
00:51:07.448 --> 00:51:08.167
cause ultimately,

1759
00:51:08.362 --> 00:51:08.925
you know what?

1760
00:51:09.128 --> 00:51:11.370
We could break out the book of Ecclesiastes and say,

1761
00:51:11.425 --> 00:51:11.831
meaningless,

1762
00:51:11.870 --> 00:51:12.269
meaningless,

1763
00:51:12.331 --> 00:51:13.253
everything is meaningless.

1764
00:51:13.487 --> 00:51:21.597
Even I guarantee at the highest Mount of Olympus of any field that let's say the frustrated artist in advertising didn't achieve.

1765
00:51:21.659 --> 00:51:24.237
I never did direct Dune Messiah.

1766
00:51:24.418 --> 00:51:24.738
It's like,

1767
00:51:24.859 --> 00:51:27.143
I guarantee once you've done that,

1768
00:51:27.323 --> 00:51:29.987
we've heard that the world is replete with these messages.

1769
00:51:30.069 --> 00:51:31.549
Denis Villeneuve is not,

1770
00:51:31.709 --> 00:51:32.694
that does not satisfy.

1771
00:51:32.834 --> 00:51:33.694
That doesn't fill it up.

1772
00:51:33.772 --> 00:51:34.694
But you know what does?

1773
00:51:34.959 --> 00:51:39.701
Is whether it is Dune Messiah or whether it's the next script for a mattress company.

1774
00:51:39.967 --> 00:51:40.123
Yeah.

1775
00:51:40.583 --> 00:51:41.424
that you care.

1776
00:51:41.564 --> 00:51:43.766
And I think something happens when you do that.

1777
00:51:43.866 --> 00:51:45.247
It's like reality,

1778
00:51:45.649 --> 00:51:46.048
others,

1779
00:51:46.110 --> 00:51:47.829
the universe rewards you.

1780
00:51:47.969 --> 00:51:48.270
Totally.

1781
00:51:48.469 --> 00:51:48.891
Absolutely.

1782
00:51:48.954 --> 00:51:49.235
You know,

1783
00:51:49.454 --> 00:51:51.813
if we talked about AI a bit at the start of this,

1784
00:51:51.852 --> 00:51:52.055
like,

1785
00:51:52.094 --> 00:51:54.618
don't just throw it into AI and I'm not anti-AI,

1786
00:51:54.759 --> 00:51:55.141
but like,

1787
00:51:55.180 --> 00:51:57.079
don't throw it into AI because you don't care.

1788
00:51:57.532 --> 00:51:58.001
That's it.

1789
00:51:58.235 --> 00:51:59.798
Throw it into AI because you do care.

1790
00:51:59.969 --> 00:52:00.094
Yeah.

1791
00:52:00.219 --> 00:52:00.907
If you care,

1792
00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:03.251
use AI to its full potential,

1793
00:52:03.532 --> 00:52:07.766
but don't drop the brief into AI and see what it puts out and go present that.

1794
00:52:08.159 --> 00:52:09.020
Because you don't care.

1795
00:52:09.200 --> 00:52:10.902
You're talking about your posture has to be right.

1796
00:52:10.982 --> 00:52:11.103
Yeah,

1797
00:52:11.142 --> 00:52:12.122
you have to use it.

1798
00:52:12.345 --> 00:52:12.943
Like any tool,

1799
00:52:13.243 --> 00:52:14.907
use it to the best of your ability.

1800
00:52:15.087 --> 00:52:18.673
But don't throw it in there because you don't have enough time or you've put it off.

1801
00:52:19.368 --> 00:52:23.454
Anything that revolves around the decision to not care about what you're doing.

1802
00:52:23.634 --> 00:52:27.392
Because someone who cares about what they're doing doesn't handball the problem to somebody else.

1803
00:52:27.657 --> 00:52:28.267
They take it on.

1804
00:52:28.626 --> 00:52:29.079
Exactly.

1805
00:52:29.314 --> 00:52:30.407
So it's three C's.

1806
00:52:30.845 --> 00:52:31.282
Create,

1807
00:52:31.345 --> 00:52:31.720
craft,

1808
00:52:31.736 --> 00:52:32.298
and care.

1809
00:52:32.345 --> 00:52:35.251
And would you say that that creates performance optimization?

1810
00:52:35.626 --> 00:52:35.986
For sure.

1811
00:52:36.251 --> 00:52:36.486
Okay,

1812
00:52:36.564 --> 00:52:36.689
so.

1813
00:52:37.287 --> 00:52:37.828
With that said,

1814
00:52:38.128 --> 00:52:38.308
it's

1815
00:52:39.810 --> 00:52:42.613
3C3PO.

1816
00:52:43.214 --> 00:52:46.636
C3PO. Love how you link everything back to Star Wars.

1817
00:52:46.894 --> 00:52:47.980
I'm doing the best I could.

1818
00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:50.878
And I think we can end on that happy feeling.

1819
00:52:51.144 --> 00:52:51.980
So C3PO,

1820
00:52:52.144 --> 00:52:52.902
you're going to create,

1821
00:52:52.964 --> 00:52:53.511
craft,

1822
00:52:53.824 --> 00:52:56.245
and care for performance optimization.

1823
00:52:56.449 --> 00:52:59.027
So thank you for bringing Star Wars into it.

1824
00:53:00.949 --> 00:53:01.245
Look at that.

1825
00:53:01.246 --> 00:53:01.870
We collaborated.

1826
00:53:01.917 --> 00:53:02.917
Made it better.

1827
00:53:04.027 --> 00:53:04.667
I think we did,

1828
00:53:04.699 --> 00:53:05.870
and I'm glad you did too.

1829
00:53:06.211 --> 00:53:11.014
I think you need to make a little poster of C3PO and make one of those motivational office posters.

1830
00:53:11.233 --> 00:53:11.694
Completely.

1831
00:53:11.752 --> 00:53:12.534
If you have C3PO,

1832
00:53:12.651 --> 00:53:13.534
like on a walk,

1833
00:53:14.092 --> 00:53:15.233
create craft care of office.

1834
00:53:15.491 --> 00:53:15.850
That's it.

1835
00:53:16.334 --> 00:53:16.850
So Shelby,

1836
00:53:16.936 --> 00:53:17.537
thank you so much.

1837
00:53:17.592 --> 00:53:19.952
Where can people interact and find out more about you?

1838
00:53:20.116 --> 00:53:21.037
I have two websites,

1839
00:53:21.217 --> 00:53:23.897
one for my business and one for myself.

1840
00:53:24.600 --> 00:53:26.475
The first one is I'm Shelby.com.

1841
00:53:26.537 --> 00:53:27.194
So I am.

1842
00:53:27.319 --> 00:53:27.912
And then Shelby,

1843
00:53:28.022 --> 00:53:28.537
like the car.

1844
00:53:28.803 --> 00:53:32.178
And then the other website is the think truck.com.

1845
00:53:32.522 --> 00:53:33.522
So like think tank,

1846
00:53:33.584 --> 00:53:35.100
but truck is truck.

1847
00:53:36.531 --> 00:53:37.472
You are the think truck.

1848
00:53:37.632 --> 00:53:38.654
Thank you very much.

1849
00:53:38.712 --> 00:53:39.173
Thanks again,

1850
00:53:39.275 --> 00:53:39.595
Shelby.

1851
00:53:39.916 --> 00:53:42.677
I'm so glad we were able to do this episode in person,

1852
00:53:42.759 --> 00:53:43.439
meet in person.

1853
00:53:43.818 --> 00:53:46.002
I'm grateful for the opportunity and yeah,

1854
00:53:46.181 --> 00:53:49.205
really pumped to actually finally meet you and be here together.

1855
00:53:49.986 --> 00:53:50.462
Not meet you,

1856
00:53:50.525 --> 00:53:50.884
but yeah,

1857
00:53:50.986 --> 00:53:53.212
to be face to face is still important.

1858
00:53:53.572 --> 00:53:53.806
Oh,

1859
00:53:54.181 --> 00:53:54.962
it's so important.

1860
00:53:54.994 --> 00:53:55.994
That's a way to show you care.

1861
00:53:56.212 --> 00:53:56.587
Exactly.

1862
00:53:56.806 --> 00:53:57.806
So thank you for caring.

1863
00:53:58.119 --> 00:53:59.134
And yeah,

1864
00:53:59.150 --> 00:53:59.712
I'll end with that.

1865
00:53:59.791 --> 00:54:01.416
I'll say for you creatives that are listening,

1866
00:54:01.494 --> 00:54:02.744
chief audio officers that are listening.

1867
00:54:02.935 --> 00:54:05.638
Shelby Hayden Craig has always done,

1868
00:54:05.859 --> 00:54:06.878
practiced what he preaches,

1869
00:54:07.241 --> 00:54:07.941
never let me down.

1870
00:54:08.179 --> 00:54:10.722
And I know because he practices his craft,

1871
00:54:10.765 --> 00:54:13.265
because he creates and puts in the time,

1872
00:54:13.468 --> 00:54:15.968
and he cares that the work is always really good,

1873
00:54:16.226 --> 00:54:16.968
is great work.

1874
00:54:17.187 --> 00:54:17.671
So thank you,

1875
00:54:17.687 --> 00:54:17.929
Shelby.

1876
00:54:17.952 --> 00:54:18.507
You're very welcome.

1877
00:54:18.508 --> 00:54:19.210
Thank you.

1878
00:54:19.491 --> 00:54:21.773
That's a wrap on another episode of Ad Infinitum.

1879
00:54:22.054 --> 00:54:24.132
And for you chief audio officers that are listening,

1880
00:54:24.195 --> 00:54:25.741
remember there's no magic button.

1881
00:54:26.179 --> 00:54:30.023
It's all about caring to get to the meaningful work.

1882
00:54:30.291 --> 00:54:35.476
Remember to visit Magellan.ai slash ad infinitum to sign up for a free demo.

1883
00:54:35.976 --> 00:54:40.722
Thank you for listening and remember to have fun making the ads work.