This is Ad Infinitum.
Ad Infinitum is the
award-winning podcast solely focused on audio ads,
the creatives who make them,
and or the latest thinking that informs them,
how the space is evolving,
and my favorite...
part,
a roundup of recent audio ads with analysis by yours truly,
Stew Redwine,
and each episode's guest.
This is season three,
episode 16,
titled Use the Force.
Today,
we're talking instinct,
momentum,
and turning obstacles into opportunities with my longtime friend and collaborator,
Michael Olson,
creator,
showrunner,
and head writer of Young Jedi Adventures.
Michael,
Welcome to Ad Infinitum.
Oh,
my goodness,
Stew.
It is.
A delight to be here.
I've been listening to your show since it started.
I know way more about advertising and audio ads than I think I should.
And it's also surreal to be here with you because our relationship goes back since,
I don't want to say how long,
but a lot since college.
And we've sort of been in and out of each other's lives that whole time.
And it's been pretty amazing.
So it's a real treat for me to be here with you,
man.
It's special to be here.
I can't even imagine if I could fly back in time.
So quick rewind.
Biola University,
two film nerds,
the Guerrilla Film Society,
Wednesday night meetups,
no permits,
too much ambition.
Why don't you give folks the 60 second version or longer of how we met and why the Guerrilla Film Society mattered to you?
Yeah,
I would say the Guerrilla Film Society was the most important thing I did in college.
So we went to Biola University.
And for those of you who don't know,
Biola is a very conservative school.
It's kind of a miracle that
They had a film school at the time,
and it can be very conservative to live there.
I think they just recently permitted dancing a few years prior.
So if that gives anyone an indication of what the school was like.
And one day I was walking through the studio and
I just heard this loud voice doing different voices using very colorful language.
And I thought,
oh,
that's my person.
Like,
these are my people.
And I go in and I find Stewart and he's got this setup of.
smoke machines,
bog machines going and foliage and a guy,
I don't remember if this was Dan or not,
but a guy in a gorilla suit.
I'm trying to remember if that was Jared.
I was in the gorilla suit.
Wait,
who was the,
Oh yeah,
it was Nick.
That was the
Nick. Yes.
Yeah.
So yeah.
So it was you in a gorilla suit.
You were also directing the thing if I recall.
I mean,
dude,
you're directing the thing.
You put yourself in the gorilla suit.
That's what I do.
Yeah.
And you know,
you had like,
Nick had a machine gun or something.
And it was just this absurd comedy.
I think it was like a promo that it was.
Yeah.
And it looked like you were having so much fun.
And that was what hooked me.
I was like,
this is why I'm here.
This is these are my people.
And then I later discovered that you had created and were running the Guerrilla Film Society.
And what I loved about that was,
you know,
at film schools,
there's usually a very formal curriculum where sometimes you don't even get to shoot a film into your second or third year.
And the Guerrilla Film Society just said,
throw that all out the window.
We're all going to make stuff now.
And it was a group of eager people who all wanted to help each other make stuff and make it now.
Don't ask for permission.
And that was exactly what I needed at that time.
And I think I still carry that ethos through to me.
And actually,
when I went in to my first pitch with Lucasfilm,
I wore these Guerrilla Film Society T-shirts and I wore that T-shirt under my shirt.
I was sweating for many reasons,
but that was.
there to remind me to,
you know,
kind of carry that ethos through it all.
Ah,
that's so incredible.
Like it matters,
the stuff that we put out.
Because I showed up at Biola and I just looked around.
I was like,
where's the film club?
And like,
we don't have one.
I was like,
oh,
we start one.
That's your superpower,
man.
And it was Sean McCauley,
Rob Yeager,
who I'm still friends with.
Just talked to him like yesterday.
And we just started it up.
And it was Wednesday nights at like 9 p.m.,
which now sounds late,
in the whatever that TV switcher room was.
Yep.
And like you said,
and that's the thing that I think to anyone who's creative or in the creative arts,
it's like you just you've got to make a bunch of stuff.
Yeah.
You've got to make stuff.
Yeah.
That's what's up.
Yeah.
I mean,
I think at that time,
I think in general as an artist,
quantity over quality,
I think,
because quality will come from that practice.
Or as Napoleon said,
quantity has a quality all of its own.
Nice.
Yes.
As we said,
Napoleon.
Yes.
Which
I've heard is the number one successful strategy in combat is outnumber them.
It's funny how that works like every time.
Yeah.
You've been to my annual birthday paintball parties.
You know how that goes.
You know,
it's like.
Yes.
I've been on the losing side.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
When it all of a sudden it's like 10 on two,
that gets pretty rough.
Okay.
So like you said,
we.
came and went out of each other's lives.
Part of that is like,
I moved back and forth to Kansas City a couple of different times.
When I came back out here in 2012,
got back together with you and a couple of guys,
other guys from Biola and started doing backlot lunches.
Yeah.
I just,
I can't help myself from naming things.
That's when we had access to backlots.
We did.
And Warner Brothers.
Yeah.
I was working at Disney at the time as an executive and a friend of ours was at Warner Brothers.
That's right.
That was,
was it Tim?
Yeah.
So we started doing the Backlot lunches.
And that was awesome.
And then around that time,
you picked up Julia Cameron's The Artist Way.
This would have been right in that era.
Morning pages,
artist dates,
the whole thing.
What shifted for you with that book?
Because I know recently you encouraged me to get into it.
Yeah.
What was so impactful about that?
Julia Cameron's The Artist Way.
Yeah.
Just to give a little context,
I had been listening to this podcaster.
He is a fantastic screenwriter.
His name is Brian Koppelman,
and he wrote Rounders.
And then he created the TV show Billions.
And he had this podcast that was for writers.
And his backstory was very similar to where I was at that time.
When he was in his early
30s, he was an executive at a record label and a frustrated wannabe screenwriter.
And there were three things that he said that really made an impact on him.
The first is Tony Robbins.
Now I am the voice.
Yeah.
And he is a huge Tony Robbins fan.
And he,
in fact,
directed a documentary on Tony Robbins on Netflix called I'm Not Your Guru.
He directed that?
Yeah.
It's great.
It's kind of a puff piece.
Yeah.
I'll be honest,
but that's OK.
Yeah.
And I had my reservations about Tony Robbins,
too.
I think like a lot of people did.
But hearing Brian talk about him because he's such an intelligent,
well-spoken,
incredibly well-read person,
I felt like there had to be something here to this.
Tony Robbins character.
There has to be.
Exactly.
So I've really enjoyed Tony Robbins'
books and I felt like they've been very helpful.
So that was the first discovery.
The second was meditation.
Brian talked about how he struggled with anxiety.
And so he started meditation.
He did a form called Transcendental Meditation.
And that turned me on to meditation.
And then the third thing was The Most Impactful,
which was The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron.
And that book is basically like a three-month workshop.
that you do by yourself,
or you can find a writer's group if you want.
And she goes through each week with sort of a reading and then certain activities that she asks you to do,
whether it's writing about something or putting together a little project or doing something that's risky or that scares you.
And the two biggest things that she asks is that you do what are called morning pages every day,
which is writing three pages handwritten.
And then once a week you do an artist's date,
which is basically just you going by yourself to do something that you enjoy or that you haven't done before that you've been curious about.
So such as like going to a museum that I haven't been to or for me because I had a little daughter at the time,
just going to see a movie for myself,
just carving out that time to say,
I'm going to go to a movie theater,
sit down and spend these two or three hours watching a movie as opposed to working on a screenplay or feeling like I was doing being busy.
carving that time for yourself and just kind of filling up your creative bucket,
so to speak.
During that time,
when you came back,
I was doing The Artist's Way.
And there's a section in there where she talks about synchronicity,
where when you start to commit yourself to something,
whether it's your art or a project or whatever,
sometimes it can feel like the universe is coming around to help you.
And she does all these exercises to kind of help you.
keep yourself open to those synchronicities.
And I know this sounds woo-woo,
but it was during that time where you came to me and said,
hey,
I need some help writing an ad for something,
and I'm willing to pay you.
And that was...
It was my first paid writing gig.
It was,
you know,
a small,
tiny little paycheck,
but it was that weird opportunity that happened during those three months of me doing that.
And at that time,
and I still look back at that and think like that was a really big synchronicity and that kind of made me a believer.
It's just incredible.
What did that lead to next?
Well,
the next thing that happened was shortly after
I was offered the position to be the head writer on Puppy Dog Pals,
which doesn't really,
tend to happen.
The normal process to become a head writer of a show is you usually become an assistant to a writer,
a staff writer,
and then maybe if you're lucky,
become a head writer.
Pause real quick.
When we hired you at Oxford Road to write the ads,
the radio ads,
what was your day job at that time?
I was an executive at
Disney Junior.
On what show?
So I managed a bunch of different shows.
I did.
So you didn't have one thing you could throw yourself into?
No,
it was a bunch and many seasons.
So like I worked on Doc McStuffins,
but I worked on at that time like four seasons of Doc McStuffins,
Jake and the Neverland Pirates,
Miles from Tomorrowland.
Sophia the First?
I worked tangentially on Sophia the First,
although I love that show.
I have a big affinity for Sophia the First.
But something wasn't working for you.
Right.
I mean,
I came out here like so many of us to want to direct and write and had the privilege of getting to work around a lot of...
show runners and writers and directors as an executive.
And it was a fantastic job,
but there was still a part of me that felt like I wasn't fully fulfilled.
So what was that real connection of like getting paid to write a radio ad?
It's like,
you're not going to go write more radio ads.
Like that wasn't it.
So how,
like connect that to the puppy dog,
but like how to,
in your mind,
in your spirit,
like how did that all link together?
Since I was all in on Julia Cameron,
synchronicity and all of that,
it felt like the universe.
was saying to me,
you're on the right path.
It may not look exactly how you want it to look,
but this is an opportunity that was presented to you.
Say yes to it.
Who knows what will happen?
Like in this daily thing I did where it's the guy calls me out of the blue.
Yeah.
And it was about,
it gave me just a little boost of confidence,
just a tiny,
you know,
just enough.
I mean,
Dan,
you know,
killed the ad and killed the confidence,
but.
Well,
Dan has high standards and as much as I have railed against them over the years,
it's made me better.
Hey,
man.
Wild having unrelenting high standards.
Hey,
hey.
And the ad didn't go out and that's,
it could have been a good,
it's probably a good thing it didn't.
So I'll,
thank you,
Dan.
Yes.
Thank you,
Dan.
But yeah,
going back to,
it just gave me a little bit of wind in my sails and a little confidence,
not arrogance,
but just,
oh,
okay.
This,
it felt good to do it.
It felt right.
Yeah.
And so when literally out of the blue,
somebody said,
hey,
do you want to be the head writer of Puppy Dog Pals?
I was just like,
I was in the place I had been practicing,
had been writing and I knew I could do it.
And I said,
yes.
And I think,
I mean,
that wouldn't have happened without
The Artist's Way.
The practice.
And I think just the important thing that I wanted to address was the work.
Because it wasn't like I just,
you know,
said hopes and prayers to the universe.
Correct.
You know,
and,
you know,
danced around in my underwear or whatever,
hoping that an opportunity would present itself.
I was furiously working and getting up early in the morning to write day in and day out.
And so I felt and I directed other projects written.
project,
my own projects,
my own scripts.
So it wasn't like I,
I didn't know what I was doing.
And I'd put myself in a job where
I had the opportunity to continue to learn from the very people who had the job that I wanted to do.
You know?
I also think there's something to like the Mr.
Miyagi thing with the wax on,
wax off and the painting the fence,
you know?
Like ideally this stuff that you're doing for practice also has a positive impact.
Like waxing the cars was good.
He didn't need to wax those cars and like painting the fence.
He didn't need to paint the fence.
Like it's helpful to get that done.
But in doing that,
it builds up the responsibility and the discipline.
Yes.
Yeah.
It deflates the ego.
So even me writing this thing for 30 days that even I didn't do it perfectly.
It took me 80 days.
But by committing to it and writing physically,
writing with my hand and reinforcing those thoughts,
it's like anyone's who's watching or listening.
Like you could do this one or you could almost do not not quite do anything,
but something positive,
like some sort of affirmation.
Yeah.
And you write it every day like,
you know,
or you go through the artist way like you're doing this work that's also showing I am willing to submit to responsibility,
discipline and accountability.
Yes.
I mean,
even just working out every day,
you know,
if that's the first if you get up in the morning to go run or whatever.
There's something about it when when I've done those been on those like those periods where I've worked out.
Yeah.
And you work out first thing in the morning,
the rest of the day,
I feel like you can conquer the day.
And that attitude changing,
once you have proven to yourself that you can do hard things,
then I think you are ready to do even harder things,
things that have impact and things that matter.
Well,
unlike admitting that it's hard,
like just now before this,
the studio that we're at,
Quest Pacifica,
I did this little,
I was a
X-Wing fighter pilot for a Star Wars fan film.
So producer Jeff asked me to be in it.
And in a city right there,
my friend,
what was good?
It's humbling because what's funny is like in my mind,
I'm like,
I could have been an actor.
But then even just there,
it's like him,
me and an iPhone or a couple of lights.
And I'm like in my head and I'm dead,
you know,
and it's like it's if I'm honest and it's like,
oh,
this is like is a craft.
This is a whole thing.
Yeah,
this would take work to do this.
And my hat's off to the people that do it and can actually pay the bills and support a family being an actor.
Like,
are you kidding me?
But it's just an example to me of that kind of thing of like,
I'm just going to do this and I'll be good at it.
It's like,
no,
I feel the same way with writing because there's so many people that come up to me and I appreciate it.
I think that they can just do it.
And I do believe that anybody can write.
But doing what we do requires craft and requires work to learn.
And then that discipline.
I think it takes honesty.
And then we'll get integrated from ads.
So this is what I mean with that is here's the thing.
Whether it takes...
Okay,
I know to be true that we're programmable,
right?
We're these eternal spirits that are piloting this programmable computer inside an animal body,
right?
Wild.
Okay,
this part's programmable.
So I can program it to get outcomes.
Okay,
there's also just like,
you know,
talent.
Sometimes there's luck,
whatever you want to call it,
where you just are on one.
Yeah.
And you just crank it out.
Just like,
you know.
Or you're on a cocaine bender.
You're Stephen Crane and you write the Red Badge of Courage in 11 days.
I think it was something like that.
You know,
it's like Cujo.
Like they say Stephen King was on a coke bender when he wrote Cujo,
which is about an out of control animal.
You know,
it's like,
so could someone come up to you and go,
Mike,
I just want to write.
Michael,
I just want to write.
And you're like,
well,
you know,
it takes craft.
And then they hand you this thing and it's incredible.
100%.
Right.
And OK,
there's humility there,
too,
because there are kids who can play the piano better than somebody who's been practicing for 30 years.
And they're 10.
Yeah,
like Eric Clampton,
they say...
famously,
I don't know if,
you know,
whatever,
Old Wives Tale,
but like his second guitar lesson,
the guitar teacher goes,
I can't teach you anymore.
But here's my point.
Yeah.
I was just talking to Jeff about his fan film.
I'm like,
does it have the juice?
Like,
is there a story?
Is it good?
Like we were talking about,
there's this Santa Claus film that Esham Nelms has done all the storyboards for all the TV commercials we've done at Oxford Road.
And he and his brother made this independent film about Santa Claus called Fat Man.
And Jeff and I were talking about it,
producer Jeff and I were talking about it and.
The thing is,
like,
it's an independent film.
And so it's like,
you know,
kind of like it doesn't have the scale of Avengers Endgame.
But man,
it resolves.
It's got the juice.
Here's the point.
Asherman and his brother,
I'm sure when they saw that,
when they felt it,
when they made it,
they're like,
that's it.
When I read a good ad and it's there,
it's there.
It's either there or it's not there.
That's actually,
to me,
the most valuable skill.
Not whether you're dealing with a savant or not.
Because,
you know,
like maybe there's a kid that does crank one out or an old person.
they're cranked,
they've never written and they can they see that it's on it?
And then the real test,
like you think of Orson Welles is like,
you know,
Citizen Kane and then what?
Can they do that again?
So if genius strikes,
I think then there may be those moments where then you got to go back into craft.
But my bigger point that I'm trying to say is just the honesty of when it's good and when it's not or when it's the best you could do.
Truly the best you could do.
Are you sing as someone who's a tastemaker or someone who's a creator?
No,
I'm saying as a creator.
Ah,
okay.
For any of us,
that the most valuable skill to me is just the honesty,
the self-honesty,
or even the honesty in looking at another's work,
of that it has,
like Rudyard Kipling says about a good poem,
it has the click of a well-made box.
Hmm.
If we were thinking of boxes,
we wouldn't have,
there'd be no ambiguity if the box doesn't close,
if it doesn't click.
Yeah.
Satisfactory.
All the thought that Steve Jobs put into the dial on- On the iPod,
yeah.
when something happens
is that it's that when it's not,
it's not.
End of story.
Credits.
Yeah.
Well,
you're talking about honesty as a creator.
I'm talking about honesty as a creator.
Yeah.
And I think,
man,
I mean,
that's something I'm still learning to uncover for myself and my own projects and the things I write,
even through Young Jedi Adventures of learning how to be honest with myself every day and sometimes not being honest with myself.
I think being honest about not being honest.
Yeah.
I'm using it as a lens to kind of get beyond the whether it took you 10 hours or an hour or 10 days or 10 years of working on your craft or not.
I'm putting a caveat like,
of course,
if you focus on your craft,
I know that's what's happened for me.
You will get better.
Yeah.
If you were still willing to BS yourself and like you're saying that could pop up at any time.
I'm like,
well,
I've put a bunch of time into this.
Why don't they see?
And did it?
Why me?
Where's mine?
F you.
Like for me,
those are the big flag thoughts for me.
Yeah.
Is that if that pops up,
it's like,
don't do it because if it's good,
it's going to connect with people.
Yeah.
And there's a humility.
And I think the journey of the artist's way isn't if you do this,
you're going to become successful because there's plenty of people who do the artist's way and maybe get some fulfillment out of it,
out of the experience,
but aren't names that we would know.
And I think for me,
the value of the artist's way more important than getting the job with you or becoming the head writer on Puppy Dog Pals was.
that honesty.
Like it takes you through a process of discovering yourself or just unpeeling those layers of BS that maybe you've been telling yourself.
And it's incredibly humbling too.
And so I think at the other end of it,
yeah,
I've run into writers who do say,
hey,
I can write,
and I've been writing for a whole six months and they hand me something and I go,
this is amazing.
And I don't resent them for it.
I actually just,
I know this is woo-woo,
but I just,
I'm thankful that they exist,
that this piece of artwork revealed the truth that resonated with me.
I think there's something valuable there.
Yeah,
I think that's the right attitude and attitude of gratitude.
It's hard to be hateful with a playful grateful.
And I'm grateful for you.
All the stuff we've collaborated on over the years,
like the short film,
The Joust,
Vampire Slayers from Kansas,
where you came alongside and helped me craft those stories and put them out,
which is what we're talking about here.
It's like you got to make stuff.
You got to put it out.
I remember sitting down with you at Bob's Big Boys and I showed you some storyboards for this science fiction epic,
Rainfall City.
And the amazing part was this.
I started that when,
I mean,
I started playing that with G.I.
Joes when I was in grade school.
Yeah.
Okay.
And I created all these characters.
But I started,
like,
I would say writing it in its final form became these storyboards.
I never ended it.
So when I was,
like,
18 or 19,
and that was hanging over my head up to,
like,
when I was,
like,
40.
And then I finished it.
I finally just finished the storyboards.
Wow.
And just that,
it was like I was free.
Hmm.
And then,
like,
doing the Jow,
the short film,
The Joust,
and Vampire Slayers from Kansas.
you know,
working with you,
just working on those things and putting them out is like,
that's the thing.
But in those collaborations,
working together,
what was that like for you?
And where was that in this whole journey of Mike on his way to
Young Jedi Adventures?
Sure.
Well,
I think anybody who's been listening to the podcast this long would know that,
you know,
you are very much an activator for me in that you created the Guerrilla Film Society.
You gave me my first writing job.
And I think when you came along with both the Joust and...
Vampire Slayers,
it was at a time where I was kind of waning a little bit in my own confidence and also in my own energy level of writing.
You know,
I'd been spinning my wheels for almost a decade writing things.
And so just to have another collaborator who has got the energy that you have and the passion that you have reignited for me that passion that I have for writing,
for creating characters,
creating worlds,
figuring out story.
And so those collaborations gave me confidence,
but more importantly gave me
energy because I got to collaborate with you.
Yeah,
that's incredible.
I remember meeting up with you and John Schimpke,
who's gone on and he's doing independent films.
Like he's great.
That's awesome.
And I can remember taking this,
like the public transit down from Valencia.
I can remember I got turned around.
I was in this subway station,
like on the red line or it's a different one,
but I just remember it was this big,
you know,
like what you'd imagine on Coruscant or something,
you know?
And then,
you know,
coming to you guys and like us just like doing it and slogging it out.
And I've never really had that thought.
I'm having this experience right now of like how much we can help each other as creatives.
For sure.
To like bring something and finish it and get it out.
I think that's important.
And there's so many avenues.
We had Dana Carvey speak at the CAO Summit last summer,
like summer of 23.
And it was incredible.
You know,
David Spade and Dana Carvey are right there and we're in this tiny venue.
And it's like,
it was awesome.
And he was just talking about like YouTube.
And now it's like,
he's like,
I had to do so much work to get on SNL.
And he's like,
and now he's like,
this is amazing.
And it was really from a really cool place of just like,
you can make anything.
Do it from your bedroom.
And put it out.
And start getting a reaction and seeing and then adjust.
But like the ability to like do your talent show for anybody,
for the world is now wide open.
Yeah.
And it doesn't have to be a Star Wars show.
Like you can do anything.
And there's a part of me that feels jealous that...
we didn't have that growing up.
But also there's a part of me that's grateful that it even exists at all and that we get to watch these other creators make incredible things,
stupid things that make us laugh.
You know,
I think it's beautiful.
It's an incredible invention.
The internet.
A new way to use your computer to communicate,
have fun,
and get instant news and information.
Okay,
I want to get to rating some ads.
But first,
I wanted to talk about what's happening with Star Wars Young Jedi Adventures.
So what's coming up?
So we've got season three premiering on December 8th on Disney+.
So this is the series finale for the whole show.
So for those of you who have been tuning in,
all questions will be answered.
Ah,
it's so good.
So like the team's getting together one last time.
Jedi Adventures.
May they grow up strong and bright.
Okay,
right now I want to go back in time to the Michael and the Stewart of the past.
since I was Stewart back in them college days,
apparently,
and tell them that Michael Olsen is going to show run a Star Wars show with many awesome directors and lead them to victory with Star Wars Young Jedi Adventures.
And what I mean by victory is coming home with some Emmys for none other than sound design.
Yeah,
it's pretty remarkable,
actually,
because,
you know,
this podcast is all about audio advertising.
It's about sound.
No,
what's been amazing,
too.
sort of a feather in our cap because this is,
as far as I know,
the first Lucasfilm production that hasn't used Skywalker sound.
And we used Advantage Audio in Furbank just because at the time there,
Skywalker sound was busy.
They were working on a movie and several TV shows and we just were a preschool show.
So,
you know,
lower on the totem pole,
I guess.
But to come home,
we've won two Emmys for sound design,
mixing and sound design.
And we just got nominated for a third.
So we're hoping for the hat trick.
That's incredible.
Congratulations.
So when you as a showrunner think about that aspect of the story,
is that because you're very sonically minded?
You think about sound a lot?
Or is it that you turned it over to people that are bringing that special craft to the table?
Like,
how do you,
why has that been the thing that is award winning?
Yeah,
I mean,
I think it's true,
not to sound cheesy,
but it truly is a collaboration of both trusting people who know what they do and letting them do what they do well,
but also having a clear vision for what it is that I want.
And then also what's expected of a Star Wars show.
I mean,
Ben Burtt,
who created a lot of the sound design for Star Wars,
you know,
iconic.
We felt like we needed to live up to that as best we could to him and to what his team created.
And so and we did work in collaboration with Skywalker Sound.
I mean,
one of the fun things that they did is they gave us access to their library of sounds.
So,
you know,
if we want a speeder whoop sound,
you know,
we go in there and grab that.
Get that whoop.
Yeah,
get that whoop,
baby.
And all the bzzz.
Yeah.
But,
I mean,
every single sound in Star Wars is meticulously thought out.
I mean,
for instance,
our villain,
Tabor,
he has a ship called the Talon.
And one of the designers on their own said,
well,
Talon,
that's a bird.
So they threw in.
falcon screech just quietly and like modulated a little bit and so if you listen closely to whenever the talon is flying through screen you'll hear amidst all the engine sounds just a slight screech of a falcon that's just barely being heard and then each of the kids's lightsabers each have a sound that kind of represents who their character is each lightsaber because you want to be able to know who that kid is just by the sound of their lightsaber when it turns on so So,
you know,
everything on our show has been meticulously planned and thought out.
you know,
the team that we've had at Advantage Audio,
absolutely incredible and definitely deserve those Emmys.
Well,
congratulations.
It sounds like you take it seriously.
It reminds me this time of year,
particularly another Disney property,
I suppose now the Muppets is the Muppet Christmas Carol.
And there's a meme that's like something about the director approaching Michael Caine to be in the Muppet Christmas Carol.
And he's like,
hey,
so it's going to be singing and dancing and the Muppets doing a Christmas Carol.
And Michael Caine's response is,
got it.
I'll play it as deadly as a heart attack.
And he plays it deadly serious,
like for humans.
And what I'm hearing you like,
this is a preschool show.
And everything you've described about approaching it is like,
I would like to,
I hope this is how all the directors of the adult stuff for Star Wars approach it.
Like you're taking it deadly serious.
Yeah.
I mean,
look,
Star Wars is so important to me.
It's a part of my childhood,
a part of who I am,
a part of the reason I came out,
a big part of the reason why I came out here to L.A.
And of course I wanted to honor it.
With every choice that we've made,
no matter how crazy it might seem or,
you know,
instinctual some of those choices are,
there is intention there with everything that we did in that show.
And I know that from for everybody on the crew.
And I show.
So now let's listen to some recent audio advertisers and see if they are as intentional or as mighty and wielding the force as you are.
All right.
Bring it on.
All right.
So.
From Magellan.ai.
In fact,
we have an ad that Michael put together on the break.
Michael,
could you read us an ad about Magellan.ai before we listen to these top movers and shakers?
Yeah,
because I was asking Stew,
what is Magellan.ai?
I've heard him reference it.
Yes.
And I explained it so well,
you just had to go to AI to get the answer.
So sorry,
Magellan.ai.
You're like the Google for podcast ads,
okay?
Yeah.
Here's what AI and I created.
In a world where podcast advertising feels like a dark forest,
Magellan.ai hands you the map.
It shows who's advertising where,
what's actually working,
and helps brands spend their money a whole lot smarter.
Sign me up.
In fact,
you can sign up for a free demo at Magellan.ai slash ad infinitum.
Let's get into some ratings,
some ads.
All right.
These are recent top movers and shakers.
First one up is public.com.
Here we go.
You're thoughtful about where your money goes.
You've got your core holdings,
some recurring crypto buys.
Maybe even a few strategic options plays on the side.
The point is,
you're engaged with your investments,
and Public gets that.
That's why they built an investing platform for those who take it seriously.
On Public,
you can put together a multi-asset portfolio for the long haul.
Stocks,
bonds,
options,
crypto,
it's all there.
Plus an industry-leading 3.8%
APY high-yield cash account.
Switch to the platform built for those who take investing seriously.
Go to public.com and earn an uncapped 1%
bonus when you transfer your portfolio.
That's public.com.
Paid for by Public Investing.
All investing involves the risk of loss,
including loss of principal.
Brokerage services for U.S.
listed registered securities,
options,
and bonds in a self-directed account are offered by Public Investing,
Inc.
Member FINRA and SIPC.
Crypto trading provided by Bax Crypto Solutions.
LLC.
Complete disclosures available at public.com slash disclosure.
Okay.
All right.
The game is afoot.
On a scale of one to 10 persuasiveness,
you're listening to Bloomberg Tech and the public.com ad comes on.
Are you persuaded?
I thought that was pretty effective,
actually.
I liked the simplicity of it.
Wow.
Okay.
So I'm not one to 10.
I'd say eight,
actually.
Okay.
Not what we were expecting from Michael Olten,
everybody.
No expert,
but I like the simplicity of it,
the clarity of it.
It wasn't trying to do too much.
Let's see what Audiolytics gave it.
I don't normally do this.
6.2.
It's my guess.
85%.
Oh.
Right in the zone.
Look at me.
What we talk about a lot is clarity has a cleverness all of its own.
And this,
it starts out with this,
you're thoughtful about where your money goes and it goes right into it.
And I mean,
there is like a little bit of a snooze button feel to this ad,
but sometimes
It's like you're caught between two worlds.
Like,
don't be yelling.
So don't be,
you know,
like,
let's say you're listening to Bloomberg tech and your fingers not primed on the button to skip.
And it goes into this.
This is pleasant enough that you might just let it roll.
You're not going to skip.
And there's a lot of information that is laid out here.
And they're talking,
you know,
their whole premise is you're thoughtful.
So it is a thoughtful person react to.
You know,
like,
don't be silly with the new latest crypto trends.
You need to invest with public.
No,
I would skip right through.
I'd be like,
why would I trust this person?
You're actually probably the right,
you're such a balanced,
reasonable individual.
Yes.
No,
I really appreciate it.
And I think also there's a temptation,
even in writing too,
without being pejorative,
to make your ads or to make whatever it is you're making.
I feel this in Star Wars too,
to make it so fast,
to make sure that you capture everyone's attention with the big spectacle that you forget sometimes.
just telling a simple story,
telling a simple fact can be more persuasive than all the bells and whistles that you can put in.
A lot of times frothy emotional appeal does not work.
Yeah.
You just need somebody to lay out the facts of their own experience and see if it works up with yours.
Yeah.
So that resonated with me at least.
Okay.
There we go.
And you're,
you're probably right in the zone.
So this next one,
here we go.
It's from the Home Depot.
Have Have you heard of them?
Who?
The holidays have arrived at the Home Depot and we're here to help bring the excitement with decor for every part of your home.
Check out our wide assortment of easy to assemble pre-lit trees so you can spend less time setting up and more time celebrating.
And bring your holiday spirit outdoors with unique decor like one of our Santa inflatables.
Whatever your style,
find the right pieces at the right prices this holiday season at the Home Depot.
Oh,
the pieces and the prices.
Shout out to Jordan Brady,
podcaster,
commercial director,
instructor of the commercial directing boot camp and friend.
And he shared a story with me a long time ago that they're working on.
I think it was Kentucky Fried Chicken commercial.
Maybe it was Popeye's.
Anyway,
the point was that the main like brand guy before he left was like,
oh,
yeah,
we shot this.
We shot that.
He's like,
now we just need to get the pieces and the prices.
And he's like out of there.
I love that.
the pieces and the prices.
So I love that this says the right pieces at the right prices.
So shout out to Jordan.
Look,
I have a soft place in my heart for the Home Depot.
Josh Lucas's voice,
the song,
they're able to seasonalize,
put seasoning on the song.
They even put in Santa.
Ho,
ho,
ho.
It's hard for me to see them going wrong.
I think they do so much right.
So that's how Stew feels.
From an audiolytic standpoint,
though,
this guy came in lower at 74%.
I was going to rate it lower too.
And it's because there wasn't a ton of information,
right?
Top three recommendations are provide data research to substantiate the gap between offering and competitors.
Include a unique discount that exceeds what's publicly available on the site.
Create an event or deadline to justify the urgency of action.
And yeah,
it's like whatever your style,
whatever your thing,
come on down.
Home show.
It's Christmas.
Sharkier is coming.
You better get ready.
Yeah,
as opposed to...
you know the santa inflatables are buy one get one free i don't know but so there's flies last so that's funny so what were you gonna i don't typically give the audiolytic score do you know what was the number be honest what was the number you had in your head i would say about six okay yeah no not
because it was bad but this is where i feel like everyone who listens to this podcast is gonna hate me that's okay it sounded like every other ad to me and again i'm not a professional,
but...
And the other one didn't?
No.
Because it was just a dude talking with some like relaxing music.
We're just a couple guys talking.
And it was so clear what that product was and who it was for.
Once you got into like 3.9 API and started talking numbers,
my eyes kind of crossed a little bit.
But 3.8%
APY.
I was close.
It's good.
But the other stuff just sounds like regular ads.
And I think just
I've listened to so many ads.
I'm so attuned to them that I tune them out.
So when something sounds different to me,
this is just me,
my brain.
I'm more apt to listen to it or pay attention.
Well,
OK.
I mean,
the next air check is...
Peloton from two judgy girls.
All right.
So we're being a two judgy.
Yeah.
All right,
guys.
All right.
Well,
let's see how Peloton showed up.
Here we go.
Working out post baby is nearly impossible between the bottles,
the naps.
Like,
did I brush my teeth today?
I'm definitely not hitting the gym,
which is why I'm so excited for the brand new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus.
It's powered by Peloton IQ,
and I know it's going to be a game changer for me.
It's Peloton's most...
elevated piece of equipment yet because it actually makes your workout personal.
Peloton IQ gives you intelligent strength coaching,
tracks your progress,
even suggests the weights that challenge you and the new movement tracking camera.
It literally counts your reps and corrects your form so you know you're doing it correctly.
And here's what I'm looking forward to,
the swivel screen.
One minute I'm running,
the next I can hit a Pilates class,
or
all without leaving my living room.
There's no commute,
no setup,
no excuses.
Peloton IQ even builds a personalized plan just for me,
classes,
instructors,
the whole thing.
So it's like having a trainer who gets that I only have 20 minutes because the baby's going to wake up.
Peloton is built for breakthroughs,
even the small ones like getting in a workout without rearranging your entire life.
So if you're in the same position,
post-baby chaos and still want to feel strong,
let Peloton do the hard part.
Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at onepeloton.com.
Let yourself run,
lift,
sculpt,
push,
and go with Peloton.
What say you?
I like the relatability of it.
At the end or the whole thing?
Just like the whole start.
I mean,
I could see my wife listening to this ad when we had our kids.
If I were to rate it,
I'm going to say six.
It's the same.
Yeah.
Tom D.
Paul.
Okay.
I'm going to jump in on this one too.
I'm not normally all over it like this,
but I think it's because I'm so comfortable with you,
Michael.
So I want to say just like,
regardless of grading sort of,
or I guess part of my grade,
part of my observation is like at the end,
I loved where it got.
So it's like having a trainer who gets that.
I only have 20 minutes because the baby's going to wake up.
Peloton is built for breakthroughs.
Even the small ones,
like getting in a workout without rearranging your title.
Like you bury the lead.
Yes.
Yeah.
To me,
I was like,
that's the juice.
Put that at the top.
and then get into all the,
like this had a ton of information in it and really it did a lot right.
And for this target and the relatability,
sounds like this is the host.
The name of this podcast is Two Judgy Girls.
So if it is two hosts,
what I would have liked is them interacting and saying their names.
Yeah.
Like,
so that you've got that direct,
like,
you know,
like I'm using this,
like I use this and you should too.
But from an audiolytic standpoint,
I will not be surprised to see that it has a high score.
So let's check here.
You think it has a high score?
91%.
Yeah.
And that does not surprise me.
Maybe it's just I'm not the target audience and I just didn't click with it.
Completely.
Yeah.
I think this is in the same zone as what the first one did for you.
I think this one does for its target and it's got a higher overall score.
Wow.
But what score would you give it not knowing the audio?
So what were you going to give it?
I was going to say a seven because I thought there was I enjoyed the hosts.
I felt.
like I could relate to the host a little bit.
I think where I knocked it down was just the specifics of the product itself.
I think there might have been a better way to describe it in simpler,
quicker terms.
Yeah,
there might have been.
I got a little lost in there.
I think,
though,
that the relatability,
it did feel relatable.
If I was going to do anything,
I'd rearrange it.
Like I said,
Audiolytics gave it a 91.
Top recommendations would provide data research to substantiate the gap between offering status quo or pre-competitors.
We've heard this before.
It's a common oversight.
Include a unique discount that exceeds what's publicly available on the site.
Sounds like we've heard this before.
Create an inventor deadline to justify urgency of action.
So that's interesting.
The same optimizations that were put out for Home Depot,
though Home Depot scored much.
lower across the board because there's even more gaps.
But those are like the top ones that you want to go to.
So it's interesting.
You go,
well,
that's interesting.
Those are the same optimizations for a 91 as a 74 because those are going to be the most meaningful based on all the performance data and the weighting that we have to go.
You need to go there first.
74,
even after you did those,
I'm going to guess it take it up to 85,
something like that.
There'd be even more work to be done to bring that score up.
Yep.
Let me ask you a question about this ad.
And because this is what you do.
As soon as they started talking about the...
Peloton IQ and they start talking about the details of the product itself.
I found myself tuning out a little bit because I felt like I was along with the podcast host and then something about the way she was describing it didn't resonate with me.
It didn't hook me.
Yeah,
I think a simple change would be working out post baby is nearly impossible between the bottles,
the naps.
Like,
did I even brush my teeth today?
Peloton is like having a trainer who gets that I only have 20 minutes because the baby's going to wake up.
I don't have all the time in the world.
and Peloton is built for break.
breakthroughs,
even the small ones,
like getting a workout without rearranging your entire life,
they give you those breakthroughs with something they call Peloton IQ.
Here's how Peloton IQ works and why it's important,
like how as a mom,
I'm able to get in those workouts.
X,
Y,
fact,
fact.
So I feel great.
If you're in the same post baby chaos and still want to feel strong,
let Peloton do the hard part.
Then what would be perfect?
We'll go let Peloton do the hard part,
figuring out all the workouts that you need just for you.
93%
of women.
who start using Peloton within two weeks or within whatever,
you know,
within a couple of weeks are already seeing the kind of results that they want to see self-reported.
And that's going to be different for everybody.
Okay.
And Peloton understands that that's why it's personalized.
That's the Peloton IQ.
They put the I in IQ.
All right.
Boom.
It's like you do this for a living.
Something like that.
Yeah.
Anchoring it on personal experience.
Yeah.
And so often they get flip-flopped.
Yeah.
And so often the note,
but it's an important one.
is,
oh,
you know where you got to at the end there where you were like making it make sense?
Well,
you're basically explaining everything you just said.
Put that at the top.
Yep.
Get them excited about the car.
And then,
yeah,
in the glove box,
there's a
150-page manual.
Yeah,
most people don't want to hear the manual.
They don't start with that.
They don't want to read it.
Yeah.
Okay,
so last ad is perplexity.
AI.
Let me ask you,
how much time do you spend every day on a web browser?
Clicking,
typing,
searching,
scrolling through endless tabs,
it all adds up,
right?
Well,
there's a new AI-powered browser from Perplexity called Comet,
and it's completely changing the way we use the internet.
Using Comet feels like having a personal assistant living right inside your browser.
And I don't just mean giving you answers.
It actually does things for you.
Comet can click,
type,
scroll,
search,
and take action across the web in real time just like you would.
It can shop for you,
book travel,
make reservations,
summarize videos or articles,
send emails,
schedule meetings,
and even unsubscribe you from spam.
And it all happens while you get back to your day.
I've tried it myself,
and it's a game changer.
For example,
I asked Comet to find me a few products across multiple sites and find me the best deal.
It handled the whole process,
searching,
scrolling,
pulling up prices,
and saved me a ton of time.
Pretty cool,
right?
Well,
you've got to see this in action.
Download Perplexity's new AI web browser,
Comet,
at
Check pplx.ai slash Ruben and let your browser actually work for you.
Plus,
right now,
when you download Comet,
you'll get a month of Rumble Premium for free.
That's pplx.ai slash Ruben.
Go now and take back your time online.
What say you?
Oh,
man.
Well,
obviously,
I feel like I'm the target audience for this ad,
so I'm probably going to be biased.
I felt like it was a pretty good ad until he got to the personal example,
which felt very general.
It kind of lost me a little bit.
But...
Yeah,
I'm going to guess it's got an eight.
I give it an eight.
You give it an eight,
or you're guessing what audiolytics.
What do you give it?
I'm going to give it an eight.
All right.
Mark it eight,
dude.
Because I think it told me what it is,
why I should want it,
what it's going to do for me,
where to get it.
All right.
Audiolytics gave this one a 92%.
This script demonstrates strong persuasive elements with clear value proposition and effective substantiation with his personal experience.
the structure follows the nine key components framework well.
What would Stoolitics give it?
I would,
if I were,
it's hard for me to have something separate from Audiolytics,
if I'm being honest.
You have melded with the algorithm.
Yeah,
yeah.
You're talking to a cyborg here.
I'd rate this one high.
I'd give it nine out of 10.
I mean,
this is what,
I want to say something though,
like nine to 10 is rarefied error.
Okay.
And like that is,
there's this next dimension you could go to,
but spirit of the law,
this ad is doing everything right.
It feels like it.
And if you trust this host,
this is the Rubin Report.
And I'm not sure if this is the host or not.
You know,
that's where a small little adjustment on this.
You know,
as a host of this show,
I have to do a lot of research.
I have to do a lot of prep,
like anchor it even more.
And I use this and you should,
too.
Like where you're saying he's talking about it helped me find prices online.
You're like,
really?
Like,
let me hear something a little bit deeper.
But yeah,
this is what you're looking for with a personal endorsement.
You want to be it.
Like...
To get in the Olympics,
you need to be at a nine out of 10.
And now let's talk about taking it to the next level.
So I'm saying,
like,
caveating the nine out of 10 with,
to me,
that's the price.
Our benchmark is 90%.
Wow.
So,
like,
that's what we want to hit,
just price of admission.
So,
okay.
So when we stack these up together at the top,
we've got perplexity at 92.
You gave it an eight.
You gave public an eight.
AudioLyx gave it an 85.
You gave Peloton a seven.
And AudioLyx gave it a 91.
And I think maybe that one is it was so far off you as the target.
Might be.
Yeah.
You know,
like,
you know,
if you were like really trying to put yourself in the mind of the target,
you might have given a little higher.
But,
you know,
so that one's a little out there.
And then Home Depot,
74 and a six.
And even though I love Home Depot,
there's a lot that that ad could do better.
This has been incredible.
Thank you so much for coming on to Add Infinite Item.
We've had an awesome conversation to land the X-Wing for the chief audio officers that are listening.
What advice would you give them when it comes to their audio ads?
What else could I say?
But the advice that you gave to me,
Stew,
use the Force.
The Force is what gives a Jedi his power.
And I couldn't have said it better myself.
In fact,
I did.
You did.
You're right.
All right.
I'm Stew Redwine.
This has been a long episode and a good episode.
Thank you,
everybody.
Make sure you check out Michael's
Star Wars Young Jedi Adventures.
And remember to have fun making the ads work.
And may the force be with you.
And also with you.