WEBVTT 1 00:00:13.866 --> 00:00:15.132 Welcome everybody. 2 00:00:15.991 --> 00:00:17.147 Welcome to the first 3 00:00:17.569 --> 00:00:18.225 PID talk. 4 00:00:18.632 --> 00:00:20.335 I am Francis Ingrand. 5 00:00:20.475 --> 00:00:24.038 I am founder and CEO of Plugin Digital. 6 00:00:24.819 --> 00:00:26.241 I am here with Stan, 7 00:00:26.897 --> 00:00:27.678 Senior Biz Dev. 8 00:00:28.925 --> 00:00:30.046 at Plugin Digital. 9 00:00:30.106 --> 00:00:32.468 We are working together for five years, 10 00:00:32.526 --> 00:00:33.511 something like that now. 11 00:00:33.749 --> 00:00:33.870 So, 12 00:00:35.651 --> 00:00:36.714 starting to be a long time. 13 00:00:37.854 --> 00:00:39.432 And so PID, 14 00:00:40.557 --> 00:00:42.557 we are doing many things, 15 00:00:42.659 --> 00:00:46.346 but what is the most important is we are doing digital distribution, 16 00:00:46.659 --> 00:00:46.862 PC, 17 00:00:47.096 --> 00:00:48.096 console and mobile. 18 00:00:48.440 --> 00:00:52.831 We are working for many publishers and indie developers all over the world. 19 00:00:53.128 --> 00:00:56.784 We are helping them to distribute their games and 20 00:00:57.572 --> 00:01:03.739 to optimize their revenue and as well we are doing publishing with our 21 00:01:04.317 --> 00:01:05.602 Dear Villagers brand. 22 00:01:05.977 --> 00:01:08.704 We do premium publishing on PC, 23 00:01:08.962 --> 00:01:10.344 console and mobile. 24 00:01:10.907 --> 00:01:13.063 I am glad to introduce you to 25 00:01:13.430 --> 00:01:14.876 Juan from Pixel Ratio. 26 00:01:15.157 --> 00:01:17.907 So it's Juan at Pixel Ratio, 27 00:01:18.469 --> 00:01:25.454 a studio from Plugin Digital and And we have experience on developing video game, 28 00:01:26.235 --> 00:01:27.063 co-development. 29 00:01:27.312 --> 00:01:31.116 supporting and helping studios to bring their games to, 30 00:01:31.558 --> 00:01:31.815 I mean, 31 00:01:32.077 --> 00:01:34.440 all platforms like console or mobile. 32 00:01:34.999 --> 00:01:35.464 So Juan, 33 00:01:35.581 --> 00:01:40.144 can you give us some insight about your story, 34 00:01:40.347 --> 00:01:41.144 about Pixel Ratio, 35 00:01:41.323 --> 00:01:42.323 what you are doing, 36 00:01:42.386 --> 00:01:42.526 etc? 37 00:01:43.433 --> 00:01:43.589 Yeah, 38 00:01:43.605 --> 00:01:43.808 sure. 39 00:01:44.308 --> 00:01:46.495 I think that all of us, 40 00:01:47.605 --> 00:01:52.870 it was some kind of dream when you are a child to to become part of the video game industry. 41 00:01:53.776 --> 00:01:56.214 I grew up between comics, 42 00:01:56.605 --> 00:01:56.886 you know, 43 00:01:57.284 --> 00:01:57.765 cartoon, 44 00:01:58.126 --> 00:02:04.493 video games and this is something that I yeah for sure that since a very child 45 00:02:05.196 --> 00:02:11.462 I wanted to be part of it and well I have to say that we had a lot of luck because 46 00:02:13.587 --> 00:02:25.055 I left my previous job before creating pixel ratio in 2011 with a friend of mine with the former 47 00:02:26.916 --> 00:02:46.220 creator or founder of pixel ratio quando it was a very good friend of mine and uh we were making video games in our nights he was in the university i was working he was a programmer i was an artist so let's say that we 48 00:02:46.298 --> 00:02:55.501 had a good friendship for sure and also we shared the love of video games so we decided on 2011 that 49 00:02:56.264 --> 00:02:59.247 We had an opportunity to make a video game. 50 00:03:00.147 --> 00:03:03.030 We didn't finish a video game before. 51 00:03:04.413 --> 00:03:09.233 But in my master's degree in video game production, 52 00:03:09.358 --> 00:03:11.358 one of the teachers told us, 53 00:03:11.577 --> 00:03:11.757 look, 54 00:03:12.624 --> 00:03:14.140 I have this project, 55 00:03:14.186 --> 00:03:16.327 I think that you could manage it, 56 00:03:16.358 --> 00:03:19.186 or at least try to do it. 57 00:03:20.593 --> 00:03:20.765 Well, 58 00:03:20.968 --> 00:03:22.811 for us it was a good opportunity. 59 00:03:23.233 --> 00:03:25.593 We wanted to be in the video game industry and we said, 60 00:03:25.655 --> 00:03:25.827 okay. 61 00:03:26.208 --> 00:03:45.405 let's go for it and this is the beginning of pixel ratio this is how we did pixel ratio we recreate the company um we needed let's say a company to yeah to to make it more official let's say work and things like that so uh my 62 00:03:45.561 --> 00:03:48.983 friend left the university for for a time and 63 00:03:50.077 --> 00:03:54.702 I left my old my previous job and we started 64 00:03:54.703 --> 00:04:07.743 started to make this video game it was good because it was it gave us the possibility to demonstrate that we can we could start video game and finish it on time and 65 00:04:08.141 --> 00:04:08.899 To do it well, 66 00:04:09.305 --> 00:04:21.313 so and also it was a proof for us that we could do something that we have been dreaming a long time and everything was pretty good and 67 00:04:22.282 --> 00:04:23.641 When we finished this 68 00:04:24.992 --> 00:04:31.579 This first game we decided to make what we wanted to do our own video game. 69 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:41.095 So we started to think how we can do it and by this time mobile was a good platform to start. 70 00:04:41.861 --> 00:04:43.533 So we decided to make a video game, 71 00:04:44.423 --> 00:04:52.814 we started the production and we finished what we thought our video game would be. 72 00:04:54.844 --> 00:05:06.862 we wanted and we had plans to release the game uh on by our own um and let and we said okay uh we always have time to do it this way but why 73 00:05:08.365 --> 00:05:10.946 Why don't we ask for a publisher? 74 00:05:11.945 --> 00:05:12.265 Because, 75 00:05:12.648 --> 00:05:12.905 I mean, 76 00:05:13.605 --> 00:05:14.007 for us, 77 00:05:14.386 --> 00:05:15.245 the industry, 78 00:05:15.366 --> 00:05:16.409 the video game industry, 79 00:05:17.027 --> 00:05:20.488 it was working in a good way with a publisher, 80 00:05:20.527 --> 00:05:23.769 with someone that could help you on the release of the game. 81 00:05:25.191 --> 00:05:27.753 It was our first game and 82 00:05:28.628 --> 00:05:34.175 I think that it was a good decision to maximize the opportunities of our face. 83 00:05:34.269 --> 00:05:36.347 And why did you choose mobile? 84 00:05:37.181 --> 00:05:39.024 rather than PC or other... 85 00:05:39.563 --> 00:05:39.764 Yeah, 86 00:05:41.746 --> 00:05:42.649 by this time, 87 00:05:44.406 --> 00:05:47.055 our first project was on mobile. 88 00:05:47.711 --> 00:05:47.891 Okay. 89 00:05:48.336 --> 00:05:50.453 So it was good, 90 00:05:51.914 --> 00:05:54.242 and for a team of two, 91 00:05:55.383 --> 00:05:58.320 we thought that mobile game, 92 00:05:59.664 --> 00:06:00.789 it was an endless runner, 93 00:06:01.102 --> 00:06:02.149 an arcade game, 94 00:06:02.664 --> 00:06:06.445 and we thought that it was the best platform. 95 00:06:06.973 --> 00:06:14.522 to us to see if we can get the trust from publisher and from people playing the game. 96 00:06:15.022 --> 00:06:19.226 Something I experienced that we are creating and it was good. 97 00:06:19.304 --> 00:06:34.538 I mean it was the platform that for us could reach more players at least to say hey we make games we are here and that's why we decided to do it. 98 00:06:34.960 --> 00:06:36.601 Okay would you say that 99 00:06:36.949 --> 00:06:41.370 Because nowadays what you do with us is mostly code-ev and porting, 100 00:06:41.831 --> 00:06:42.449 optimization, 101 00:06:42.511 --> 00:06:43.089 stuff like that. 102 00:06:43.769 --> 00:06:51.288 Would you say that making your first game on a system that has a plurality of platforms, 103 00:06:51.429 --> 00:06:52.976 of hardware, 104 00:06:53.132 --> 00:07:00.288 shaped you into having always optimization in mind and figuring out that this needs to run on absolutely everything, 105 00:07:00.491 --> 00:07:02.741 that kind of set your trajectory? 106 00:07:03.288 --> 00:07:03.491 Yeah, 107 00:07:03.929 --> 00:07:04.773 sure, 108 00:07:04.774 --> 00:07:05.038 totally. 109 00:07:06.689 --> 00:07:13.795 We were mad at optimization for a long time and it is because of mobile. 110 00:07:14.095 --> 00:07:18.521 I mean you need to give support to many devices with different specs. 111 00:07:18.763 --> 00:07:19.599 Especially Android. 112 00:07:19.802 --> 00:07:20.021 Yes, 113 00:07:20.123 --> 00:07:22.810 especially Android. 114 00:07:23.404 --> 00:07:25.670 So it was a mess. 115 00:07:26.045 --> 00:07:26.826 But yeah, 116 00:07:26.966 --> 00:07:27.435 it's true. 117 00:07:28.545 --> 00:07:31.513 Let's say that it configured our way to see video games. 118 00:07:31.841 --> 00:07:34.060 To start thinking about optimization, 119 00:07:34.638 --> 00:07:36.045 maybe it's not the natural way. 120 00:07:37.217 --> 00:07:38.418 You are going to make a video game, 121 00:07:38.438 --> 00:07:39.840 you want to make an experience, 122 00:07:40.221 --> 00:07:41.541 let's wait for the optimization. 123 00:07:41.580 --> 00:07:43.424 But in our DNA, 124 00:07:46.182 --> 00:07:50.612 I came from a simulator. 125 00:07:51.151 --> 00:07:51.393 I mean, 126 00:07:51.534 --> 00:07:54.760 in my former job, 127 00:07:55.088 --> 00:07:56.010 I was working, 128 00:07:56.276 --> 00:07:58.573 creating simulators, 129 00:07:58.995 --> 00:08:04.385 and the optimization was something very square in the production. 130 00:08:04.823 --> 00:08:06.526 You need to do it since the very beginning. 131 00:08:06.901 --> 00:08:10.745 It also helped me to have a production standard. 132 00:08:10.946 --> 00:08:13.305 Let's say to have everything measured, 133 00:08:14.247 --> 00:08:16.774 the size of the texture, 134 00:08:16.775 --> 00:08:19.352 the pixel ratio, 135 00:08:19.837 --> 00:08:22.657 the polygonic budget. 136 00:08:23.180 --> 00:08:32.009 A lot of these kind of things that we put also into the mobile video game development and that is in our 137 00:08:32.368 --> 00:08:33.290 DNA. also 138 00:08:34.425 --> 00:08:37.368 I have to say that Juan Lu, 139 00:08:37.369 --> 00:08:38.009 the developer, 140 00:08:39.249 --> 00:08:42.335 he always had in mind some kind of, 141 00:08:42.850 --> 00:08:43.530 I have to say, 142 00:08:43.897 --> 00:08:45.960 and I'm really happy to say that, 143 00:08:46.116 --> 00:08:52.577 because he had in mind some kind of high standard in terms of performance for video games. 144 00:08:52.905 --> 00:08:53.905 And it was like, 145 00:08:53.983 --> 00:08:54.108 no, 146 00:08:55.608 --> 00:08:57.233 if we can push a little bit more, 147 00:08:57.311 --> 00:08:58.202 we are going to do it. 148 00:08:58.702 --> 00:09:03.514 Let's try to see where the trade-off is in order to keep... 149 00:09:04.526 --> 00:09:06.147 the quality as much as possible, 150 00:09:06.167 --> 00:09:07.628 but also to reach... 151 00:09:08.108 --> 00:09:09.850 I'm speaking about 2011, 152 00:09:09.851 --> 00:09:13.030 2012, 153 00:09:13.031 --> 00:09:20.405 and we were thinking about putting our game 60 frames per second in the mid-range 154 00:09:20.780 --> 00:09:23.171 Android, iOS devices, 155 00:09:23.436 --> 00:09:24.842 and we needed to achieve it. 156 00:09:25.608 --> 00:09:26.202 And yeah, 157 00:09:26.249 --> 00:09:28.014 we were mad at optimization. 158 00:09:29.467 --> 00:09:29.671 And 159 00:09:31.358 --> 00:09:32.499 I think that this is 160 00:09:33.481 --> 00:09:48.523 Something that helped us on the porting side and to understand that video game development when you are thinking about different platforms you 161 00:09:48.781 --> 00:09:53.312 need to take into account that there are some restrictions, 162 00:09:53.703 --> 00:09:54.672 some limitations, 163 00:09:54.828 --> 00:10:02.750 you need to think about it and you need to see how you can offer the player the best experience and performance is part of the 164 00:10:03.191 --> 00:10:04.236 of a good experience. 165 00:10:04.558 --> 00:10:05.504 So that's why we... 166 00:10:06.556 --> 00:10:08.897 try to do our best on this side. 167 00:10:09.276 --> 00:10:16.016 And how did you move from self-publishing your own games to port optimization etc? 168 00:10:17.282 --> 00:10:19.680 Did you meet some companies? 169 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:22.102 Did you see some opportunities? 170 00:10:23.063 --> 00:10:23.266 Yeah, 171 00:10:24.719 --> 00:10:27.485 we were making after the release of our game, 172 00:10:28.125 --> 00:10:29.875 of our first game Abbey Escape, 173 00:10:30.922 --> 00:10:33.438 we did it with another French company, 174 00:10:34.016 --> 00:10:34.922 with a French publisher, 175 00:10:35.329 --> 00:10:35.829 Bulkypix. 176 00:10:36.500 --> 00:10:44.848 And we started to work with them and it helped a lot on our side. 177 00:10:44.926 --> 00:10:45.692 You pitched them? 178 00:10:45.848 --> 00:10:46.309 You pitched... 179 00:10:46.629 --> 00:10:47.231 Yeah, 180 00:10:47.434 --> 00:10:52.903 well it was totally crazy because we didn't have the idea to go out with the publisher. 181 00:10:53.309 --> 00:10:54.512 We sent some mails. 182 00:10:55.059 --> 00:10:55.418 It was 183 00:10:56.121 --> 00:11:00.168 12 in the afternoon when I sent all the mails. 184 00:11:00.621 --> 00:11:02.403 At the 5 of the same day, 185 00:11:03.090 --> 00:11:05.871 I already had a pre-contract with... 186 00:11:06.508 --> 00:11:09.232 Wow. 187 00:11:09.252 --> 00:11:10.771 He used to be faster. 188 00:11:11.435 --> 00:11:13.634 Because they called me like, 189 00:11:13.857 --> 00:11:13.974 OK, 190 00:11:14.334 --> 00:11:16.177 I have some ideas for your game. 191 00:11:16.638 --> 00:11:20.506 We were searching for some kind of production like that. 192 00:11:20.904 --> 00:11:30.224 I want to offer you a co-production because we think that we can offer a good idea to make a better game or a better product. 193 00:11:30.865 --> 00:11:31.552 Just to be clear, 194 00:11:31.646 --> 00:11:32.896 it's not happening anymore. 195 00:11:35.357 --> 00:11:35.658 Yeah. 196 00:11:35.838 --> 00:11:37.221 That's for sure. 197 00:11:37.900 --> 00:11:40.545 Now in 2025, 198 00:11:40.546 --> 00:11:40.865 for sure. 199 00:11:40.866 --> 00:11:41.224 That is long gone. 200 00:11:41.225 --> 00:11:48.912 Maybe for the people who listen or are watching this and who are unaware of the very specific state of mobile, 201 00:11:49.014 --> 00:11:53.764 both from a business perspective but also from a technical perspective, 202 00:11:54.514 --> 00:11:57.201 it's a very competitive market with a lot of free-to-play, 203 00:11:57.202 --> 00:11:58.748 but from the technical perspective, 204 00:11:58.764 --> 00:12:00.639 and I think this is also important for you, 205 00:12:00.826 --> 00:12:01.029 right? 206 00:12:01.685 --> 00:12:02.139 it's that 207 00:12:03.837 --> 00:12:07.219 It has the worst side of the console and the worst side of the PC. 208 00:12:08.039 --> 00:12:08.742 So console, 209 00:12:08.781 --> 00:12:11.804 you have to have a lesser hardware in mind, 210 00:12:11.805 --> 00:12:12.484 but there's just one. 211 00:12:13.125 --> 00:12:13.469 And PC, 212 00:12:13.547 --> 00:12:14.984 you have a more powerful hardware, 213 00:12:15.008 --> 00:12:17.351 but there's so many of them that you don't know how they interact. 214 00:12:17.648 --> 00:12:19.672 So that's literally how you started. 215 00:12:20.531 --> 00:12:21.140 You pitched that, 216 00:12:21.437 --> 00:12:22.562 you got your publishing deal, 217 00:12:23.281 --> 00:12:23.875 went all right. 218 00:12:25.531 --> 00:12:27.453 When did you thought in your mind, 219 00:12:27.703 --> 00:12:31.219 we can translate that to something else than mobile? 220 00:12:31.220 --> 00:12:31.469 We can... 221 00:12:31.996 --> 00:12:32.917 We can translate, 222 00:12:32.918 --> 00:12:36.362 like take that experience and apply it to porting on console. 223 00:12:36.460 --> 00:12:37.741 What was the trajectory for that? 224 00:12:37.761 --> 00:12:37.921 Well, 225 00:12:37.922 --> 00:12:39.081 it came very late, 226 00:12:39.202 --> 00:12:39.702 I have to say, 227 00:12:39.703 --> 00:12:40.862 in the story of Pixel Ratio. 228 00:12:41.222 --> 00:12:46.112 We started to make video games for big brand companies. 229 00:12:47.894 --> 00:12:51.097 And it was most of them for mobile. 230 00:12:51.597 --> 00:12:51.800 Okay, 231 00:12:51.894 --> 00:12:52.690 so yeah, 232 00:12:52.831 --> 00:12:56.222 our style of making games was good for this kind of cartoon brands. 233 00:12:56.753 --> 00:12:58.862 And we started to make projects with them. 234 00:12:59.706 --> 00:13:01.284 It was in... 235 00:13:02.108 --> 00:13:05.269 2017, 236 00:13:05.509 --> 00:13:05.689 sorry, 237 00:13:06.490 --> 00:13:10.927 it was in 2017 when we started to work on PC and in virtual reality. 238 00:13:11.552 --> 00:13:11.873 Again, 239 00:13:12.287 --> 00:13:13.787 more optimization because... 240 00:13:14.670 --> 00:13:16.490 Virtual reality shows the hard work. 241 00:13:18.029 --> 00:13:18.177 Yeah, 242 00:13:18.287 --> 00:13:19.037 so again, 243 00:13:19.412 --> 00:13:22.318 and we started to create our own technology, 244 00:13:22.568 --> 00:13:24.537 we worked hard on that. 245 00:13:25.677 --> 00:13:25.787 Yeah, 246 00:13:25.849 --> 00:13:29.052 I think that we did a lot of things that in the market was not ready. 247 00:13:29.459 --> 00:13:31.427 So we decided to get to 248 00:13:32.272 --> 00:13:51.696 put it on standby and at this moment we started to open a new way of making games trying to translate board games to pc video games and then is when we started to talk to our plugin digital or through playing digital and 249 00:13:52.915 --> 00:14:00.103 we we started to to to work on on pc uh this was our first first experience i mean 250 00:14:00.492 --> 00:14:03.416 We had the experience of the online with the virtual reality. 251 00:14:03.496 --> 00:14:07.339 We have the experience on making games from the start to the end. 252 00:14:09.179 --> 00:14:16.375 And now we have a new platform with the opportunity to make something a little bit bigger, 253 00:14:16.546 --> 00:14:17.109 I have to say. 254 00:14:17.890 --> 00:14:19.093 And yeah, 255 00:14:19.437 --> 00:14:22.250 and this was the first step, 256 00:14:22.312 --> 00:14:22.671 I guess, 257 00:14:22.750 --> 00:14:29.718 because we started to make this kind of strategy game or board game translated into video game. 258 00:14:30.088 --> 00:14:39.767 experience and we started to be more in communication with Plugin Digital until 2020 or I think it was 2021. 259 00:14:39.768 --> 00:14:45.369 2021. 260 00:14:46.908 --> 00:14:48.877 We made our first port on 261 00:14:49.236 --> 00:14:50.033 Nintendo Switch. 262 00:14:50.034 --> 00:14:50.346 It was 263 00:14:50.705 --> 00:14:51.627 Machinika Museum. 264 00:14:52.096 --> 00:14:54.861 This was our first port with Plugin Digital. 265 00:14:55.455 --> 00:14:57.049 Yeah and it was 266 00:14:57.296 --> 00:14:57.697 great. 267 00:14:58.117 --> 00:14:58.358 I mean, 268 00:14:58.478 --> 00:15:05.049 we had the opportunity to work on console that we tried in the past, 269 00:15:05.111 --> 00:15:07.154 but the opportunity was not, 270 00:15:07.756 --> 00:15:08.014 I mean, 271 00:15:08.756 --> 00:15:09.561 we couldn't do it. 272 00:15:10.178 --> 00:15:10.397 But 273 00:15:11.167 --> 00:15:11.567 We had 274 00:15:12.769 --> 00:15:13.750 Machinica Museum, 275 00:15:14.049 --> 00:15:18.252 which is a very great project to explore different ways to play. 276 00:15:19.432 --> 00:15:23.861 And this is how we took the port inside. 277 00:15:24.400 --> 00:15:24.580 Okay, 278 00:15:24.658 --> 00:15:26.658 we can make a game for Nintendo Switch, 279 00:15:27.268 --> 00:15:28.377 but we are not, 280 00:15:28.627 --> 00:15:28.861 I mean, 281 00:15:29.049 --> 00:15:29.752 for Nintendo Switch, 282 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:30.752 we are not making games. 283 00:15:30.861 --> 00:15:32.330 We are going to make the 284 00:15:33.002 --> 00:15:35.955 Machinica Museum experience on Nintendo Switch. 285 00:15:36.158 --> 00:15:37.768 And it was interesting to work on 286 00:15:38.111 --> 00:15:38.721 Switch because 287 00:15:38.887 --> 00:15:54.979 optimization is a key point on switch like on mobile so it was a perfect platform to to move on console stuff i think it was also right around the turning point because i remember that was right around the turning point where switch 288 00:15:55.151 --> 00:16:08.073 started to be less powerful than the iphones that were released and roughly the same screen size so it was a funny thing to do again for people watching machine museum go check it out this is a 3d puzzle game 289 00:16:08.419 --> 00:16:11.363 So while the challenge was there, 290 00:16:11.562 --> 00:16:16.226 there wasn't anything too crazy about needing 100 FPS. 291 00:16:16.484 --> 00:16:18.507 I think it was a pretty great project to start. 292 00:16:18.508 --> 00:16:19.492 The game is pretty chill. 293 00:16:19.914 --> 00:16:20.632 There's no action. 294 00:16:20.672 --> 00:16:22.297 It's just like moving around, 295 00:16:22.351 --> 00:16:24.937 figuring out how to solve a puzzle, 296 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:27.359 making alien technology work again. 297 00:16:27.765 --> 00:16:30.406 So I think that when we talked about it for a long time, 298 00:16:30.703 --> 00:16:31.718 the first time we met you, 299 00:16:32.609 --> 00:16:33.672 it was during lockdown. 300 00:16:33.922 --> 00:16:35.609 Yeah. 301 00:16:35.828 --> 00:16:37.375 The first time you came to Mobile League, 302 00:16:37.376 --> 00:16:37.406 we... 303 00:16:37.459 --> 00:16:54.837 because we figured out you wanted to transition to that and we struggled a lot with what to give you as a test run and both switch and machinica were the perfect project also because yeah now it was all of a sudden more technical working on switch than he was working on iphone 304 00:16:55.102 --> 00:17:06.508 usually at that specific time yeah it was really good i mean we ended up with a good experience uh we took a lot of information about our porting development 305 00:17:06.959 --> 00:17:10.382 and also regarding the Nintendo Switch device, 306 00:17:10.542 --> 00:17:14.687 the opportunities that we can have in order to translate the experience of the video game. 307 00:17:15.448 --> 00:17:19.855 So I think it was everything perfect to us. 308 00:17:20.612 --> 00:17:29.480 And what was the most important difficulties you found on Switch port compared to mobile port? 309 00:17:30.464 --> 00:17:31.667 For you it's easier, 310 00:17:32.589 --> 00:17:33.558 more difficult, 311 00:17:34.120 --> 00:17:35.714 same kind of issue? 312 00:17:36.627 --> 00:17:36.767 Well, 313 00:17:37.828 --> 00:17:39.690 we are still working on both. 314 00:17:40.272 --> 00:17:40.471 Yeah, 315 00:17:40.472 --> 00:17:42.311 but from your point of view, 316 00:17:42.752 --> 00:17:44.936 what is the most difficult? 317 00:17:45.412 --> 00:17:49.178 But now I would say that we need to... 318 00:17:50.280 --> 00:17:51.084 There are two points 319 00:17:51.444 --> 00:17:52.022 I have to say. 320 00:17:52.858 --> 00:17:53.326 Firstly, 321 00:17:53.983 --> 00:17:55.920 when you are doing something in console, 322 00:17:56.389 --> 00:17:59.748 you need to meet the guidelines and everything like that. 323 00:17:59.826 --> 00:18:01.014 So yeah, 324 00:18:01.248 --> 00:18:02.826 you need to be very careful. 325 00:18:02.873 --> 00:18:04.420 And for people who don't know about... 326 00:18:04.543 --> 00:18:19.534 this there's a list of requirement that each platform has that can range from how you call the buttons to how the save works so there's whenever it's not as easy to push a game on console as it is to to 327 00:18:19.597 --> 00:18:32.316 push it on on pc so that's a huge part of your job is not just making it run it's making it run according to the way they want it to run exactly trc trc 328 00:18:32.863 --> 00:18:34.204 So we deal with that. 329 00:18:34.264 --> 00:18:35.385 This is one of the plans. 330 00:18:36.067 --> 00:18:36.407 Secondly, 331 00:18:37.149 --> 00:18:38.270 it's about performance. 332 00:18:39.508 --> 00:18:40.090 That's for sure, 333 00:18:40.371 --> 00:18:40.989 no matter the game. 334 00:18:41.192 --> 00:18:43.856 Do you still think that for consoles that aren't... 335 00:18:43.871 --> 00:18:47.614 Because we can tell you're not only working on Switch anymore, 336 00:18:47.637 --> 00:18:50.473 you work on PlayStation and Xbox and you're doing the full... 337 00:18:50.973 --> 00:18:52.848 And you do all the development for us. 338 00:18:55.989 --> 00:19:00.004 Would you also say that it's still a performance problem on PS5? 339 00:19:00.771 --> 00:19:03.691 an Xbox Series or is it just a different approach to it? 340 00:19:04.591 --> 00:19:05.492 Well yeah, 341 00:19:07.351 --> 00:19:09.355 we used to separate both of them. 342 00:19:09.636 --> 00:19:12.777 I mean we have on one side 343 00:19:13.332 --> 00:19:17.800 PlayStation 5 and Xbox and another side we have 344 00:19:18.660 --> 00:19:22.222 Nintendo Switch and depending on the project Xbox 345 00:19:22.582 --> 00:19:23.191 Series 346 00:19:26.394 --> 00:19:26.957 S. 70% 347 00:19:27.394 --> 00:19:29.472 of the problems. 348 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:34.943 So we tried to approach these two groups differently. 349 00:19:35.744 --> 00:19:40.689 And when we work with the studios and we enter in the project, 350 00:19:41.572 --> 00:19:42.212 even the plan, 351 00:19:42.252 --> 00:19:43.134 when we create the plan, 352 00:19:44.314 --> 00:19:50.142 we try always to put special focus on 353 00:19:50.564 --> 00:19:54.377 Nintendo Switch and Xbox Series S because of the optimization. 354 00:19:54.642 --> 00:19:55.298 It's true that 355 00:19:56.080 --> 00:19:57.330 PlayStation 5 and Xbox 356 00:19:58.361 --> 00:19:58.986 Series X 357 00:19:59.624 --> 00:20:00.651 They have their own 358 00:20:02.660 --> 00:20:12.749 problems let's say i mean they are powerful that's for sure and that's actually the pc yeah i mean you didn't use i mean i don't know if you worked on like playstation 3 and playstation 4. 359 00:20:12.968 --> 00:20:30.374 no i did i remember that it was it was the art the architecture was crazy it was it wasn't built like computer so you needed to rethink the way you you programmed everything but ps5 xbox now it's literally a pc yeah it's very close it's very close that's true i mean the 360 00:20:30.390 --> 00:20:31.203 good part of it is 361 00:20:31.864 --> 00:20:34.326 you have a standard and yeah, 362 00:20:34.327 --> 00:20:34.546 I mean, 363 00:20:35.068 --> 00:20:37.669 it's not as wild as mobile or PC. 364 00:20:37.670 --> 00:20:38.849 Easier to test. 365 00:20:39.251 --> 00:20:39.490 Yeah, 366 00:20:39.491 --> 00:20:40.271 easier to test, 367 00:20:40.537 --> 00:20:41.177 that's for sure. 368 00:20:42.857 --> 00:20:43.099 But yeah, 369 00:20:43.115 --> 00:20:43.372 I mean, 370 00:20:44.474 --> 00:20:46.599 each group we treat it differently, 371 00:20:47.943 --> 00:20:48.458 that's for sure. 372 00:20:48.943 --> 00:20:56.693 And maybe a lot of people either didn't know about porting or maybe it's like this black... 373 00:20:57.232 --> 00:21:01.695 magical books or they think you have like a conversion button on Unity or whatnot. 374 00:21:03.515 --> 00:21:03.933 What is it? 375 00:21:03.934 --> 00:21:04.355 What do you do? 376 00:21:04.394 --> 00:21:05.816 I suppose now you have a pipeline, 377 00:21:05.831 --> 00:21:08.597 you've done enough so that you're okay this is what we're going to do. 378 00:21:09.253 --> 00:21:10.011 How does that work? 379 00:21:10.316 --> 00:21:10.613 Do you... 380 00:21:11.535 --> 00:21:14.613 How do you take a PC game and put it... 381 00:21:14.675 --> 00:21:15.941 make it work on something else? 382 00:21:16.456 --> 00:21:18.722 Well I guess it depends on the engine as well. 383 00:21:18.941 --> 00:21:19.441 On the engine, 384 00:21:19.456 --> 00:21:19.972 absolutely. 385 00:21:20.535 --> 00:21:25.925 Yeah for sure because during this time we have been doing ports from unity 386 00:21:26.532 --> 00:21:27.053 Unreal, 387 00:21:27.333 --> 00:21:28.294 GameMaker, 388 00:21:29.014 --> 00:21:29.394 and 389 00:21:30.355 --> 00:21:30.795 I don't know, 390 00:21:30.857 --> 00:21:36.803 but I think that soon we will see our first Go.projects. 391 00:21:36.818 --> 00:21:37.279 I don't know, 392 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.303 but the trend is there. 393 00:21:41.084 --> 00:21:41.303 I mean, 394 00:21:41.490 --> 00:21:42.850 what would be like the first thing you do? 395 00:21:43.584 --> 00:21:44.287 I know the answer, 396 00:21:44.288 --> 00:21:45.068 but for the people who... 397 00:21:45.271 --> 00:21:45.443 Yeah, 398 00:21:45.506 --> 00:21:45.850 yeah, 399 00:21:45.912 --> 00:21:46.115 yeah, 400 00:21:46.116 --> 00:21:47.131 for the people too. 401 00:21:47.271 --> 00:21:48.131 What's the first thing you do? 402 00:21:48.132 --> 00:21:48.834 You get a project, 403 00:21:48.835 --> 00:21:49.537 you send it to you, 404 00:21:49.538 --> 00:21:50.271 you check the code? 405 00:21:50.803 --> 00:21:50.975 Yeah. 406 00:21:51.256 --> 00:21:51.584 Then what? 407 00:21:52.037 --> 00:21:52.225 Yeah, 408 00:21:52.521 --> 00:21:53.037 I mean, 409 00:21:53.678 --> 00:21:55.787 when we check the code, 410 00:21:57.037 --> 00:22:08.369 The first thing that we used to do is to check our background and past projects to see something that we can identify as a potential risk. 411 00:22:08.806 --> 00:22:10.447 I mean when we evaluate the project, 412 00:22:10.674 --> 00:22:11.431 each project is, 413 00:22:11.713 --> 00:22:12.377 I have to say, 414 00:22:12.705 --> 00:22:16.033 in the core very different to each other and that's fine. 415 00:22:17.642 --> 00:22:25.564 But at the end sometimes we think that of course PC ratio is a big company but also more and more a knowledge company. 416 00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:32.426 meaning like when we review a project we can forecast or see previous problems, 417 00:22:33.125 --> 00:22:33.567 risks, 418 00:22:33.985 --> 00:22:37.610 struggles and this is the first that we identify. 419 00:22:38.211 --> 00:22:43.805 Also we start the evaluation on many ways. 420 00:22:44.336 --> 00:22:45.414 On the code side, 421 00:22:47.258 --> 00:22:52.821 seeing how far we are from meeting the TRC, 422 00:22:53.008 --> 00:22:54.227 the guidelines that we are talking, 423 00:22:54.228 --> 00:22:55.008 I mean what 424 00:22:56.217 --> 00:22:56.698 what Sony, 425 00:22:56.737 --> 00:23:00.241 Microsoft or Nintendo expect to have on their system. 426 00:23:02.221 --> 00:23:10.534 And also we can review how the performance is in our first internal build. 427 00:23:10.768 --> 00:23:11.557 This is what we do. 428 00:23:11.792 --> 00:23:12.010 I mean, 429 00:23:12.120 --> 00:23:12.714 we never, 430 00:23:13.151 --> 00:23:20.260 we try to never close an evaluation of the project without a build running on the system. 431 00:23:20.667 --> 00:23:21.870 And this is something that we need to do. 432 00:23:21.885 --> 00:23:22.120 I mean, 433 00:23:22.167 --> 00:23:24.745 this is a must on pixel ratio because 434 00:23:24.836 --> 00:23:26.918 it's going to tell you how far you are. 435 00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:27.259 I mean, 436 00:23:27.260 --> 00:23:30.802 no matter if the first version is not going to work properly, 437 00:23:32.142 --> 00:23:41.892 it needs to work because it's going to give you all the profile details that you need in order to set up a document that we do. 438 00:23:41.908 --> 00:23:43.502 You don't need a gold version, 439 00:23:43.611 --> 00:23:48.502 but you need something very well advanced to be sure to cover everything. 440 00:23:48.845 --> 00:23:48.986 Yeah, 441 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:51.267 at least better. 442 00:23:54.356 --> 00:24:09.779 for the people who are watching the way it works is we we have what we call test kits of deck dev kits which are stripped down versions of the hardware of the consoles that we can run basically whatever we want on it now i suppose in the engine you can 443 00:24:09.998 --> 00:24:23.506 choose the platforms you want to build for us you will build for that you'll test it and that will tell you right away if you're having proper fps if it boots that or or or if it doesn't so the one of the first thing you'll do is just like 444 00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:24.361 build it, 445 00:24:24.721 --> 00:24:25.562 check if it works, 446 00:24:26.023 --> 00:24:27.363 see how it runs, 447 00:24:27.484 --> 00:24:31.207 and then there's all the technical part of fixing the code, 448 00:24:31.609 --> 00:24:32.750 toning down the assets, 449 00:24:32.789 --> 00:24:33.367 I suppose, 450 00:24:33.390 --> 00:24:35.234 if everything is like 4K and... 451 00:24:35.429 --> 00:24:36.093 Yeah, 452 00:24:36.375 --> 00:24:36.554 yeah, 453 00:24:36.875 --> 00:24:37.672 yeah. 454 00:24:38.437 --> 00:24:39.093 We create, 455 00:24:40.054 --> 00:24:41.570 we make a profile. 456 00:24:41.617 --> 00:24:46.976 Profiling a video game is like some kind of technical check about how it's going, 457 00:24:47.148 --> 00:24:50.742 how it's performing in every different console or device, 458 00:24:50.773 --> 00:24:51.086 I mean, 459 00:24:51.148 --> 00:24:52.133 on mobile or something. 460 00:24:52.445 --> 00:24:52.570 So 461 00:24:53.253 --> 00:24:56.841 This is our first step and then we create the plan and go ahead. 462 00:24:58.085 --> 00:24:58.827 I have to say that 463 00:24:59.578 --> 00:25:01.539 This is the first thing, 464 00:25:01.918 --> 00:25:10.521 but one of the most important is about communication and communication with the developers. 465 00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:11.943 And this is a key part. 466 00:25:12.037 --> 00:25:12.162 And 467 00:25:13.084 --> 00:25:18.482 I have to say that I strongly believe that this is a key value from 468 00:25:19.482 --> 00:25:21.498 Plugin Digital and from what we're doing. 469 00:25:21.842 --> 00:25:24.186 Because when we start a port, 470 00:25:24.404 --> 00:25:26.123 even in the evaluation sometimes, 471 00:25:26.311 --> 00:25:27.826 we have some questions. 472 00:25:28.046 --> 00:25:28.226 I mean, 473 00:25:28.227 --> 00:25:29.468 the developers know the game by heart. 474 00:25:30.448 --> 00:25:32.191 We don't at this point. 475 00:25:32.589 --> 00:25:36.296 So what we want is to have a good communication, 476 00:25:36.351 --> 00:25:37.312 just to tell them, 477 00:25:37.734 --> 00:25:37.874 look, 478 00:25:39.077 --> 00:25:40.741 we are going to face some struggles, 479 00:25:40.796 --> 00:25:41.640 some difficulties. 480 00:25:43.077 --> 00:25:50.734 We want you to focus on keep creating this awesome video game that you are doing if it's under development. 481 00:25:51.702 --> 00:25:52.452 If it's finished, 482 00:25:52.484 --> 00:25:54.312 it's something different, 483 00:25:54.390 --> 00:25:57.015 because we know that at least we can exchange. 484 00:25:57.654 --> 00:26:00.557 with them what we think the port will be, 485 00:26:01.780 --> 00:26:06.221 where is going to be this trade between quality and performance, 486 00:26:06.526 --> 00:26:12.932 if there is something technical that we don't know and they can share with us. 487 00:26:12.933 --> 00:26:15.417 So I think that in the second step, 488 00:26:15.667 --> 00:26:17.370 communication is the key. 489 00:26:18.167 --> 00:26:19.698 And as well, 490 00:26:19.729 --> 00:26:22.557 we have to be sure it's manageable because sometimes, 491 00:26:22.792 --> 00:26:23.417 Unfortunately, 492 00:26:23.807 --> 00:26:25.807 not on PS5 and Xbox for sure, 493 00:26:25.838 --> 00:26:25.995 but... 494 00:26:26.694 --> 00:26:37.384 Sometimes it's not possible to move on switch port or mobile port because of performance or maybe because of codes or stuff like that. 495 00:26:37.447 --> 00:26:41.587 So before to invest money in part, 496 00:26:41.712 --> 00:26:45.431 we have to be sure it's manageable and the final game will be good enough. 497 00:26:45.775 --> 00:26:46.415 Yeah, 498 00:26:46.416 --> 00:26:48.181 it's part of our evaluation. 499 00:26:48.462 --> 00:26:48.681 Yeah. 500 00:26:48.682 --> 00:26:52.681 I mean to get a proper and realistic scope. 501 00:26:53.040 --> 00:26:53.165 Yeah, 502 00:26:53.462 --> 00:26:54.540 exactly. 503 00:26:54.541 --> 00:26:55.868 I think this is the key. 504 00:26:55.869 --> 00:26:56.197 I mean... 505 00:26:56.698 --> 00:27:13.634 you know you have and we have to evaluate the cost because if it's too costly maybe it doesn't make sense to move on of course in terms of our job as a publisher to to to to make this kind of decision and and you know there's there's so many things that that 506 00:27:14.337 --> 00:27:22.899 that ought to be taken into consideration as well you know it's always okay but do you want to go for example physical then the size of the the build which does not matter, 507 00:27:24.149 --> 00:27:25.165 is there multiplayer, 508 00:27:25.524 --> 00:27:26.102 is there... 509 00:27:26.458 --> 00:27:27.519 continued updates, 510 00:27:27.520 --> 00:27:29.101 in which case you have to be on the retainer. 511 00:27:29.401 --> 00:27:31.042 Porting to console is huge. 512 00:27:31.202 --> 00:27:31.343 Now, 513 00:27:31.823 --> 00:27:33.065 funny thing though, 514 00:27:33.226 --> 00:27:34.026 we can tell it now, 515 00:27:34.987 --> 00:27:36.526 we've acquired your company, 516 00:27:36.769 --> 00:27:39.534 we're in the same boat now, 517 00:27:39.675 --> 00:27:40.151 officially. 518 00:27:40.815 --> 00:27:45.034 And we did that specifically at a time where we felt, 519 00:27:45.534 --> 00:27:48.612 and Frans is here more than anyone else because he's the boss, 520 00:27:48.659 --> 00:27:54.222 but we collectively felt that the indie market was shifting towards console. 521 00:27:55.598 --> 00:27:56.119 with Switch, 522 00:27:57.100 --> 00:27:58.941 but the other consoles kind of followed through, 523 00:27:59.061 --> 00:27:59.281 right? 524 00:27:59.701 --> 00:28:00.865 So nowadays, 525 00:28:01.342 --> 00:28:07.912 it's getting harder and harder to think about releasing an indie game without going on console. 526 00:28:08.529 --> 00:28:08.693 Now, 527 00:28:08.811 --> 00:28:12.873 as someone whose bread and butter is to make console games, 528 00:28:13.670 --> 00:28:16.342 how have you seen the market evolve? 529 00:28:16.514 --> 00:28:17.326 Like from, 530 00:28:17.686 --> 00:28:17.795 no, 531 00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:18.873 if you want to make an indie game, 532 00:28:18.874 --> 00:28:19.295 go PC, 533 00:28:19.607 --> 00:28:20.404 maybe mobile, 534 00:28:20.529 --> 00:28:22.889 to console is not an option, 535 00:28:23.170 --> 00:28:24.170 it's not optional anymore, 536 00:28:24.171 --> 00:28:25.045 we have to make it. 537 00:28:25.418 --> 00:28:43.811 the dgc thing slowly shifts yeah yeah yeah and i think um that this is great i mean um when when we think about release a video game on on console i think it's going to be a huge 538 00:28:44.124 --> 00:28:54.405 workload on on the shoulders of a indie developer studio uh or solo dev that could happen so i think 539 00:28:56.319 --> 00:29:11.202 I'm very happy to see that because at the end to put an indie game in a console it's something for us great because it's like, 540 00:29:11.374 --> 00:29:11.670 okay, 541 00:29:12.452 --> 00:29:16.202 I want to raise my voice and say, 542 00:29:16.420 --> 00:29:16.655 hey, 543 00:29:17.467 --> 00:29:21.530 I have another vision of video games and yeah, 544 00:29:21.561 --> 00:29:23.499 I know that I need to play with the big dogs. 545 00:29:23.764 --> 00:29:24.202 It's true. 546 00:29:24.774 --> 00:29:31.650 okay but i want to be there i want the people enjoy this video game in all platforms and we 547 00:29:32.666 --> 00:29:35.667 We are really proud to be part of it. 548 00:29:35.927 --> 00:29:43.911 So I'm really happy that this shift from indie developers to the console is growing. 549 00:29:44.247 --> 00:29:52.935 It's now becoming the standard and this is something that we are really happy to be part of it. 550 00:29:54.028 --> 00:29:54.185 It's, 551 00:29:54.388 --> 00:29:54.903 as I said, 552 00:29:55.028 --> 00:29:55.794 some kind of... 553 00:29:59.107 --> 00:30:01.450 I don't know the word in English, 554 00:30:01.497 --> 00:30:01.607 but... 555 00:30:01.774 --> 00:30:02.755 Yeah, 556 00:30:02.756 --> 00:30:02.895 I mean, 557 00:30:02.896 --> 00:30:03.595 it's a statement. 558 00:30:03.596 --> 00:30:03.755 It's like... 559 00:30:03.756 --> 00:30:03.836 Yeah, 560 00:30:03.837 --> 00:30:04.396 it's a big statement. 561 00:30:04.418 --> 00:30:08.199 I think it's very important for developers to have a game on console, 562 00:30:08.461 --> 00:30:09.882 especially on physical version. 563 00:30:10.062 --> 00:30:13.125 And as well for financial reasons, 564 00:30:14.046 --> 00:30:15.265 market is very difficult, 565 00:30:15.484 --> 00:30:16.171 very crowded. 566 00:30:16.546 --> 00:30:16.671 So, 567 00:30:16.726 --> 00:30:18.515 the more platforms you address, 568 00:30:18.531 --> 00:30:20.109 the more luck you have to make money. 569 00:30:20.453 --> 00:30:20.578 So, 570 00:30:21.265 --> 00:30:27.437 that's a way to aim more customers and to make more money. 571 00:30:28.093 --> 00:30:28.218 So, 572 00:30:29.703 --> 00:30:30.640 it totally makes sense, 573 00:30:30.781 --> 00:30:31.328 I think now. 574 00:30:31.846 --> 00:30:33.428 to move on several platforms. 575 00:30:33.589 --> 00:30:35.852 And first parties, 576 00:30:36.352 --> 00:30:37.352 when we say first parties, 577 00:30:37.372 --> 00:30:40.454 we're talking about like in Microsoft and Nintendo and so on. 578 00:30:40.798 --> 00:30:45.743 They've also understood the value of indie games. 579 00:30:45.938 --> 00:30:46.923 They didn't used to, 580 00:30:47.141 --> 00:30:47.946 now they get it. 581 00:30:48.415 --> 00:30:50.165 So you get more player. 582 00:30:50.821 --> 00:30:52.634 I think a lot of console players, 583 00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:54.274 especially the most powerful ones, 584 00:30:54.946 --> 00:30:55.212 you know, 585 00:30:55.665 --> 00:30:56.196 people you see, 586 00:30:56.243 --> 00:30:58.727 you don't buy a PlayStation 5 to play it. 587 00:30:58.926 --> 00:31:00.408 an indie 2D pixel art game, 588 00:31:00.427 --> 00:31:01.788 I think that has changed. 589 00:31:02.689 --> 00:31:09.978 Those players are more curious as a result of all those first parties wanting to push indie games further. 590 00:31:10.119 --> 00:31:11.658 So you also, 591 00:31:12.056 --> 00:31:15.040 because Steam is so crowded and so everything is algorithmic, 592 00:31:15.056 --> 00:31:16.884 you cannot talk to someone to save your life, 593 00:31:18.244 --> 00:31:21.790 you usually also end up getting more support from the first parties, 594 00:31:21.962 --> 00:31:22.994 either financially, 595 00:31:23.447 --> 00:31:24.775 but also marketing. 596 00:31:24.947 --> 00:31:27.228 And so it's pretty cool. 597 00:31:27.950 --> 00:31:29.712 That is something I want to ask you because 598 00:31:30.392 --> 00:31:32.195 I started my personal career on 599 00:31:32.617 --> 00:31:33.535 AAA and on console. 600 00:31:33.675 --> 00:31:34.956 But you didn't. 601 00:31:36.460 --> 00:31:37.523 We're roughly the same age. 602 00:31:38.382 --> 00:31:39.859 So you must have played like 603 00:31:40.663 --> 00:31:41.140 Super Nintendo, 604 00:31:41.141 --> 00:31:42.663 Nintendo 64, 605 00:31:42.703 --> 00:31:43.687 PlayStation growing up. 606 00:31:44.312 --> 00:31:49.328 Does it get old to see one of your gamer game you participated? 607 00:31:49.666 --> 00:31:50.768 be released on PlayStation, 608 00:31:50.807 --> 00:31:53.049 like firing up the PlayStation, 609 00:31:53.350 --> 00:31:56.711 the same basic system that you played 25 or 30 years ago, 610 00:31:57.074 --> 00:31:57.492 and be like, 611 00:31:57.594 --> 00:31:58.055 damn, 612 00:31:58.117 --> 00:31:58.695 I did that. 613 00:31:58.914 --> 00:32:01.461 Does it get hold or is it still like magical? 614 00:32:01.719 --> 00:32:01.836 No, 615 00:32:01.914 --> 00:32:02.039 no, 616 00:32:02.040 --> 00:32:02.156 no, 617 00:32:02.219 --> 00:32:02.336 no. 618 00:32:02.516 --> 00:32:04.383 It's still magical at all. 619 00:32:04.781 --> 00:32:05.063 I mean, 620 00:32:05.141 --> 00:32:19.289 this is when it changed everything in Pixel Ratio when we figured out that we are making people happy to enjoy a video game in its favorite console. 621 00:32:19.682 --> 00:32:20.643 And also for us, 622 00:32:21.024 --> 00:32:21.544 it's like, 623 00:32:21.883 --> 00:32:22.044 well, 624 00:32:22.045 --> 00:32:22.405 as you say, 625 00:32:22.504 --> 00:32:22.706 well, 626 00:32:22.866 --> 00:32:23.206 I mean, 627 00:32:23.848 --> 00:32:26.188 this is something very important to us. 628 00:32:26.567 --> 00:32:26.911 It's like, 629 00:32:26.930 --> 00:32:27.051 OK, 630 00:32:28.153 --> 00:32:28.895 it's also a good, 631 00:32:29.294 --> 00:32:36.333 a big responsibility on our side because we are translating this great game, 632 00:32:38.442 --> 00:32:40.098 even if it's from a small studio, 633 00:32:40.379 --> 00:32:48.426 this great game to a wider audience that is going to play in their favorite device or console or whatever. 634 00:32:48.946 --> 00:32:49.927 And yeah, 635 00:32:50.628 --> 00:32:52.208 this is really when you, 636 00:32:53.029 --> 00:32:53.630 like you said, 637 00:32:53.650 --> 00:32:56.673 when you start your PlayStation, 638 00:32:56.814 --> 00:32:57.517 Nintendo Switch, 639 00:32:57.572 --> 00:33:00.822 and you see the game you have been working on and say, 640 00:33:00.861 --> 00:33:00.978 OK, 641 00:33:01.579 --> 00:33:02.861 I've been working here. 642 00:33:03.697 --> 00:33:05.306 I've been working on that and I'm really, 643 00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:09.040 really happy that all the people could enjoy this great experience. 644 00:33:09.384 --> 00:33:10.087 And yeah, 645 00:33:10.134 --> 00:33:10.353 I mean, 646 00:33:10.994 --> 00:33:12.009 it's still magic to us. 647 00:33:12.228 --> 00:33:13.212 And I don't want to lose it. 648 00:33:13.775 --> 00:33:14.978 I think that this is cool. 649 00:33:15.970 --> 00:33:16.591 Makes sense. 650 00:33:16.592 --> 00:33:20.956 I think console manufacturers are keen to continue to push. 651 00:33:21.636 --> 00:33:22.136 Indeed, 652 00:33:22.137 --> 00:33:28.663 they all have in this program to push original content on platforms, 653 00:33:28.664 --> 00:33:29.765 most of them at least. 654 00:33:32.265 --> 00:33:32.640 And now, 655 00:33:32.687 --> 00:33:32.968 you know, 656 00:33:33.390 --> 00:33:34.015 20 years ago, 657 00:33:34.203 --> 00:33:37.656 console was for one guy in the family, 658 00:33:38.609 --> 00:33:39.640 young adult, 659 00:33:39.953 --> 00:33:41.296 a man most of the time. 660 00:33:42.218 --> 00:33:42.499 Now, 661 00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:44.015 a console is for the family. 662 00:33:44.343 --> 00:33:44.640 Yeah. 663 00:33:44.641 --> 00:33:44.812 Okay. 664 00:33:45.046 --> 00:33:52.173 So it means the father wants to play two different games than the daughter or the son, 665 00:33:52.294 --> 00:33:52.411 etc. 666 00:33:52.814 --> 00:33:56.435 So it makes sense to have different games for different kinds of audiences. 667 00:33:56.653 --> 00:33:57.239 20 years ago, 668 00:33:58.482 --> 00:34:00.700 it was quite a unique audience. 669 00:34:00.701 --> 00:34:01.919 AAA audience, 670 00:34:01.997 --> 00:34:02.544 big games, 671 00:34:02.591 --> 00:34:02.700 etc. 672 00:34:02.997 --> 00:34:04.388 So it changed everything. 673 00:34:05.544 --> 00:34:06.185 Absolutely. 674 00:34:07.294 --> 00:34:08.403 One thing I wanted to touch on, 675 00:34:08.435 --> 00:34:10.310 because we've talked a lot about consoles, 676 00:34:10.357 --> 00:34:11.169 how it is important, 677 00:34:11.216 --> 00:34:12.700 please release your game on consoles. 678 00:34:13.218 --> 00:34:16.378 how it's important to have console and so on. 679 00:34:16.379 --> 00:34:19.501 I don't want to narrow down what you do with us, 680 00:34:20.318 --> 00:34:22.099 just consoles. 681 00:34:22.138 --> 00:34:23.958 You also do codev, 682 00:34:24.224 --> 00:34:26.044 you help us optimize games, 683 00:34:26.458 --> 00:34:31.169 you help us basically for a little while you kind of like punched above your weight, 684 00:34:31.529 --> 00:34:33.169 you kept on challenging yourselves, 685 00:34:33.247 --> 00:34:36.076 you've done some tools for us. 686 00:34:36.560 --> 00:34:40.060 I'm thinking about releasing all these artworks on Switch and so on. 687 00:34:43.813 --> 00:34:49.880 Now that you're part of a group and we throw all these things at you and all this new possible work, 688 00:34:50.442 --> 00:34:51.700 how do you see the trajectory? 689 00:34:51.723 --> 00:34:52.380 Is it like, 690 00:34:52.419 --> 00:34:52.622 okay, 691 00:34:53.098 --> 00:34:54.286 we've done mobile games, 692 00:34:54.466 --> 00:34:55.388 now we did ports, 693 00:34:55.505 --> 00:34:56.747 now we're doing co-development. 694 00:34:57.286 --> 00:34:59.942 Is the trajectory for you be like, 695 00:34:59.989 --> 00:35:00.208 okay, 696 00:35:00.333 --> 00:35:10.161 next we're going to do our own game or we want to do more co-dev or what pushes you forward at this writing moment yeah well right now 697 00:35:11.339 --> 00:35:12.759 Every time that we enter in a port, 698 00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:17.160 we try to treat it as our own game, 699 00:35:17.422 --> 00:35:17.739 always. 700 00:35:18.340 --> 00:35:18.942 Meaning like, 701 00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:24.641 we need to treat it with a lot of respect, 702 00:35:25.821 --> 00:35:27.641 because of the people that is working, 703 00:35:28.063 --> 00:35:29.578 the original developer, 704 00:35:29.579 --> 00:35:29.844 I mean, 705 00:35:29.906 --> 00:35:31.328 is their baby, 706 00:35:31.578 --> 00:35:33.406 and we need to take care of it also. 707 00:35:33.781 --> 00:35:34.625 But in any case, 708 00:35:35.781 --> 00:35:40.719 we try to treat every project as it is a pixel ratio. 709 00:35:41.275 --> 00:35:41.655 project. 710 00:35:42.276 --> 00:35:45.458 And I think that this is something very important. 711 00:35:46.739 --> 00:35:49.805 And also right now we feel very well, 712 00:35:50.243 --> 00:35:59.391 I mean working with other studios in Portinside is giving us another way to understand video game development, 713 00:36:00.673 --> 00:36:02.798 how to tell stories through video game. 714 00:36:03.438 --> 00:36:04.204 And yeah, 715 00:36:04.657 --> 00:36:09.329 this is the part that we for sure want to keep going. 716 00:36:10.931 --> 00:36:16.474 It also helps us to grow, 717 00:36:17.033 --> 00:36:19.935 to learn and yeah, 718 00:36:20.076 --> 00:36:22.130 try to improve ways. 719 00:36:22.990 --> 00:36:26.076 For sure we want to make our own games at some point. 720 00:36:27.209 --> 00:36:28.599 This is something that we would like to do. 721 00:36:28.600 --> 00:36:28.677 Yeah, 722 00:36:28.678 --> 00:36:28.802 yeah, 723 00:36:31.474 --> 00:36:32.412 yeah, 724 00:36:32.537 --> 00:36:33.271 that's for sure. 725 00:36:35.490 --> 00:36:35.834 We are, 726 00:36:36.443 --> 00:36:37.474 if everything goes well, 727 00:36:38.615 --> 00:36:39.490 we are going to... 728 00:36:39.959 --> 00:36:58.656 pitch something internally very soon so bring it we'll see hopefully but yeah i mean we are we are very uh comfortable with the we with all the things that we are doing first of all we wanted to since the very beginning as you know we wanted to be 729 00:36:58.781 --> 00:37:09.125 part of a be a useful part of for plugin digital okay and we wanted to help in all this kind of project of porting internal development and so on. 730 00:37:09.619 --> 00:37:10.499 And we are good. 731 00:37:10.640 --> 00:37:10.859 I mean, 732 00:37:10.860 --> 00:37:11.619 we want to go ahead. 733 00:37:11.680 --> 00:37:12.379 But also, 734 00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:12.939 yeah, 735 00:37:12.940 --> 00:37:14.439 for sure as a video game studio, 736 00:37:15.260 --> 00:37:15.939 we would like to, 737 00:37:16.420 --> 00:37:17.361 at some moment, 738 00:37:18.318 --> 00:37:22.779 we would like to try and make our own game. 739 00:37:23.201 --> 00:37:24.006 Maybe in the future, 740 00:37:24.162 --> 00:37:24.623 we will see. 741 00:37:24.725 --> 00:37:25.818 And your company grew now. 742 00:37:25.896 --> 00:37:26.396 I mean, 743 00:37:26.428 --> 00:37:29.381 you're way bigger than you were five years ago. 744 00:37:29.396 --> 00:37:29.943 We are 10. 745 00:37:29.944 --> 00:37:30.521 And you want to see. 746 00:37:30.537 --> 00:37:31.006 Yeah, 747 00:37:31.007 --> 00:37:31.318 we are 10. 748 00:37:31.350 --> 00:37:31.959 Something to be seen. 749 00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:32.037 Yeah, 750 00:37:32.038 --> 00:37:38.068 I remember that in 2021 when we had the meeting, 751 00:37:38.131 --> 00:37:38.568 we were two. 752 00:37:38.867 --> 00:37:39.788 Yeah. 753 00:37:40.667 --> 00:37:44.930 So we have been growing thanks to playing digital. 754 00:37:45.567 --> 00:37:47.493 So we have been growing. 755 00:37:48.172 --> 00:37:50.352 We will talk about acquisition right after. 756 00:37:50.391 --> 00:37:51.430 But just before, 757 00:37:52.211 --> 00:37:55.211 we talked a lot about console port. 758 00:37:55.571 --> 00:37:57.227 But we have to say as well, 759 00:37:57.274 --> 00:38:01.227 you do still a lot of mobile port as well. 760 00:38:01.586 --> 00:38:02.789 And sometimes both. 761 00:38:03.149 --> 00:38:03.336 Yeah. 762 00:38:03.805 --> 00:38:06.289 Mobile and console port for some games. 763 00:38:07.274 --> 00:38:07.649 Because... 764 00:38:08.135 --> 00:38:08.796 We have to say 765 00:38:09.877 --> 00:38:13.400 PID strategy is to be on all kind of platform, 766 00:38:13.939 --> 00:38:15.603 mostly on premium business model, 767 00:38:15.662 --> 00:38:17.627 but it's very important for us. 768 00:38:17.947 --> 00:38:20.510 It's part of our DNA to be on mobile, 769 00:38:21.268 --> 00:38:22.127 all kind of mobile, 770 00:38:22.189 --> 00:38:22.408 PC, 771 00:38:22.986 --> 00:38:25.518 cloud gaming and all kind of consoles. 772 00:38:26.018 --> 00:38:30.518 So it's part of things we found very sexy with you. 773 00:38:31.877 --> 00:38:33.596 It was you came from mobile, 774 00:38:33.643 --> 00:38:36.330 but you are able to make console, 775 00:38:36.439 --> 00:38:36.627 PC, 776 00:38:36.783 --> 00:38:37.268 of course. 777 00:38:37.535 --> 00:38:43.741 if needed so that's very interesting and it's not so common because a lot of studios are 778 00:38:44.588 --> 00:38:46.290 more or less specialized on console, 779 00:38:48.431 --> 00:38:54.095 but it's not always easy to find studio able to and happy to work both on mobile, 780 00:38:54.157 --> 00:38:54.337 PC, 781 00:38:54.556 --> 00:38:55.040 console. 782 00:38:57.321 --> 00:38:57.657 So yeah, 783 00:38:57.782 --> 00:39:05.329 maybe you can just give us a few words about mobile ports because it's important too. 784 00:39:05.330 --> 00:39:05.485 Yeah, 785 00:39:06.595 --> 00:39:09.314 we have a wide experience on mobile, 786 00:39:09.329 --> 00:39:10.517 this is cool. 787 00:39:10.720 --> 00:39:13.782 I mean the fact that we can make mobile 788 00:39:14.240 --> 00:39:15.801 In console port or PC, 789 00:39:16.301 --> 00:39:17.701 in pixel ratio, 790 00:39:17.762 --> 00:39:29.564 what we used to do is to share the information as much as possible between all of us and help each other when we are creating the port on mobile or on console. 791 00:39:29.565 --> 00:39:30.611 But especially mobile, 792 00:39:30.799 --> 00:39:35.471 all the people that have been working on mobile is going to share all the different risks, 793 00:39:35.752 --> 00:39:37.939 all the different struggles that we are facing, 794 00:39:37.971 --> 00:39:42.939 the challenges and things like that and try to standardize, 795 00:39:43.002 --> 00:39:43.471 let's say. 796 00:39:44.356 --> 00:39:45.416 all of these kind of things. 797 00:39:45.936 --> 00:39:52.420 It's true that in the optimization side is something a little bit critical, 798 00:39:53.295 --> 00:39:54.280 depending on the project. 799 00:39:55.038 --> 00:39:59.061 And on the other side is about the game experience. 800 00:39:59.717 --> 00:40:00.295 On mobile, 801 00:40:00.592 --> 00:40:00.764 yes, 802 00:40:00.795 --> 00:40:09.217 you need to think more about the game experience because the first exchange between the game and the player, 803 00:40:09.264 --> 00:40:10.139 which is the input, 804 00:40:10.155 --> 00:40:11.014 is totally different. 805 00:40:12.077 --> 00:40:13.342 And it changes. 806 00:40:13.564 --> 00:40:15.446 the experience completely. 807 00:40:15.727 --> 00:40:26.657 So that's why internally we have people that have been facing these kind of challenges before and we try to tell everyone what we did, 808 00:40:27.196 --> 00:40:35.790 if we made a mistake try to not to do it and try to work on having a good mobile experience for each game. 809 00:40:36.102 --> 00:40:39.305 So we need a little bit of time at the beginning to think about it and the 810 00:40:40.430 --> 00:40:42.805 PlayGN Digital Mobile team always help us on that. 811 00:40:43.240 --> 00:40:44.281 Like UI, 812 00:40:44.282 --> 00:40:44.402 UX, 813 00:40:44.441 --> 00:40:47.023 it's a key point on mobile. 814 00:40:47.226 --> 00:40:47.343 Yeah, 815 00:40:47.363 --> 00:40:47.523 yeah. 816 00:40:47.843 --> 00:40:49.066 Console is easier. 817 00:40:49.925 --> 00:40:50.788 Yeah, 818 00:40:50.808 --> 00:40:51.624 this point is easier. 819 00:40:51.890 --> 00:40:52.827 But on mobile, 820 00:40:52.828 --> 00:40:55.734 you need to think about what kind of experience you want to offer to the player. 821 00:40:56.249 --> 00:41:00.312 And mobile team from PluginDigital always help us on that. 822 00:41:00.624 --> 00:41:00.937 For sure. 823 00:41:00.984 --> 00:41:06.968 I think mobile port can't be just a technical port. 824 00:41:07.140 --> 00:41:07.265 No, 825 00:41:07.266 --> 00:41:07.359 no, 826 00:41:07.406 --> 00:41:08.827 you have to kind of like... 827 00:41:08.843 --> 00:41:11.515 You have to think about game experience. 828 00:41:12.356 --> 00:41:13.557 user experience, 829 00:41:13.578 --> 00:41:13.698 etc. 830 00:41:15.459 --> 00:41:22.647 And we have to say sometimes we decide not to go on mobile because of that. 831 00:41:22.670 --> 00:41:28.608 It's not good enough and game experience won't be good on mobile. 832 00:41:28.733 --> 00:41:31.467 And it also forces you to sometimes change the business model. 833 00:41:31.499 --> 00:41:33.155 You were talking about Maschineka Museo, 834 00:41:33.202 --> 00:41:35.077 and we're going to talk roughly about it. 835 00:41:35.264 --> 00:41:36.545 It's a premium game on PC, 836 00:41:36.561 --> 00:41:37.936 it was a premium game on Switch, 837 00:41:38.545 --> 00:41:40.186 and we decided to do a freemium on... 838 00:41:41.564 --> 00:42:01.207 on mobile so that's like a whole different approach to it it's like you can play the first level for free and then you need to pay so it's porting on mobile is porting to it's not just posting on a different hardware you're porting to a different ecosystem exactly with players could be different business model is different price 839 00:42:01.223 --> 00:42:10.145 point is different the player habits are different usually you know they play they play when they commute it's shorter sessions so you have to adapt to that it's it's a 840 00:42:10.428 --> 00:42:11.669 There's a lot of game design, 841 00:42:12.130 --> 00:42:12.550 I think, 842 00:42:13.331 --> 00:42:14.292 and design in general, 843 00:42:14.372 --> 00:42:17.814 implied when you're thinking about taking your game to mobile. 844 00:42:18.536 --> 00:42:18.693 Yeah, 845 00:42:18.755 --> 00:42:19.154 we need, 846 00:42:19.357 --> 00:42:20.435 when we make the evaluation, 847 00:42:20.482 --> 00:42:22.701 we need a little bit of time thinking about it. 848 00:42:23.443 --> 00:42:24.521 If this information, 849 00:42:25.443 --> 00:42:25.607 well, 850 00:42:25.724 --> 00:42:28.560 we share this information with Playing Digital, 851 00:42:29.013 --> 00:42:30.091 with the mobile department, 852 00:42:30.201 --> 00:42:36.841 and they used to offer always very good ideas about how to translate the video game to the mobile version. 853 00:42:37.484 --> 00:42:37.804 But yeah, 854 00:42:37.844 --> 00:42:41.184 definitely we need to work on the experience. 855 00:42:42.285 --> 00:42:42.407 Yeah, 856 00:42:42.586 --> 00:42:42.887 lately, 857 00:42:43.125 --> 00:42:43.766 an example, 858 00:42:45.789 --> 00:42:49.828 we were talking in console regarding the console with the TRC, 859 00:42:50.086 --> 00:42:50.750 the guidelines, 860 00:42:50.789 --> 00:42:52.430 something that you need to meet the standard. 861 00:42:52.610 --> 00:42:52.907 Okay, 862 00:42:53.469 --> 00:42:53.875 mobile, 863 00:42:53.891 --> 00:42:54.985 maybe it seems wild, 864 00:42:55.485 --> 00:42:56.235 but it's not. 865 00:42:56.344 --> 00:42:56.563 I mean, 866 00:42:56.594 --> 00:43:01.313 the people expect some kind of input control, 867 00:43:02.047 --> 00:43:03.688 some kind of behavior in the menus, 868 00:43:04.172 --> 00:43:06.485 some even in different... 869 00:43:06.792 --> 00:43:07.733 kind of game, 870 00:43:08.233 --> 00:43:11.254 they expect some kind of a standard for this kind of game, 871 00:43:11.255 --> 00:43:12.137 for the racing game, 872 00:43:12.477 --> 00:43:13.559 for endless game, 873 00:43:13.860 --> 00:43:14.840 for action game. 874 00:43:15.176 --> 00:43:16.840 So and as a whole, 875 00:43:17.083 --> 00:43:17.340 I mean, 876 00:43:17.879 --> 00:43:19.348 is how you interact with the game. 877 00:43:20.028 --> 00:43:21.348 What is the experience that I'm getting? 878 00:43:22.004 --> 00:43:24.629 What's the business model that the game has? 879 00:43:25.004 --> 00:43:32.301 And everything is impacting at the end in the game design or the game design is impacting in all the different, 880 00:43:32.911 --> 00:43:33.317 let's say, 881 00:43:33.879 --> 00:43:35.114 topics or subjects. 882 00:43:35.458 --> 00:43:35.583 So... 883 00:43:36.212 --> 00:43:36.412 Yeah, 884 00:43:36.713 --> 00:43:40.618 I agree that if we face a mobile port, 885 00:43:41.477 --> 00:43:46.462 we mostly all the time we think first about the game design. 886 00:43:46.805 --> 00:43:49.446 Although there are some very few occasions, 887 00:43:49.447 --> 00:43:50.587 we almost had one, 888 00:43:50.868 --> 00:43:52.313 like we've done in the past without them, 889 00:43:52.344 --> 00:43:53.891 we almost had one, 890 00:43:53.892 --> 00:43:54.688 it didn't go through, 891 00:43:54.689 --> 00:43:55.704 we can't say the name of it, 892 00:43:55.705 --> 00:43:57.766 there are very few occasions when we have to go. 893 00:43:58.485 --> 00:44:01.229 We're going from mobile to PC and console. 894 00:44:01.969 --> 00:44:09.354 And I remember this one game that we tried to get together and that was entirely based on touch. 895 00:44:10.237 --> 00:44:14.283 And we needed to find ways to make it playable with a controller. 896 00:44:14.338 --> 00:44:14.916 You remember that? 897 00:44:15.307 --> 00:44:15.479 Yeah. 898 00:44:15.526 --> 00:44:18.432 And to find ways to make it playable with keyboard and mouse. 899 00:44:18.526 --> 00:44:20.385 And that was a different type of heart attack. 900 00:44:20.729 --> 00:44:21.635 That's very rare, 901 00:44:21.713 --> 00:44:25.151 but it does happen that we go from mobile to PC and console. 902 00:44:25.152 --> 00:44:26.057 We did it once. 903 00:44:27.185 --> 00:44:28.587 But it's very rare, 904 00:44:28.908 --> 00:44:30.990 but that was a different type of challenge. 905 00:44:31.330 --> 00:44:32.432 It's a challenge, 906 00:44:32.433 --> 00:44:33.650 and we're ready to accept it. 907 00:44:33.651 --> 00:44:36.392 It's also like the game was thought to be played vertically, 908 00:44:36.736 --> 00:44:37.416 and it was like, 909 00:44:38.213 --> 00:44:38.939 how do we do that? 910 00:44:39.017 --> 00:44:39.135 Okay, 911 00:44:39.136 --> 00:44:40.080 you can do it on Switch, 912 00:44:40.119 --> 00:44:40.400 but how... 913 00:44:41.736 --> 00:44:46.564 Do you know how many games you port in Pixel Ratio history, 914 00:44:47.689 --> 00:44:47.986 roughly? 915 00:44:49.283 --> 00:44:53.564 I think that we are nearly between... 916 00:44:55.189 --> 00:44:55.596 I think that... 917 00:44:55.953 --> 00:45:17.609 we can say 15 15 15 if if if not between 15 to 20 years okay in average to two three platforms so it means 60 to 80 port yeah well something like that yeah okay yeah yeah now we keep it we keep a new world busy yeah we 918 00:45:17.656 --> 00:45:23.687 are so yeah when i remember that i mean now we're going to talk about the fact that you're now incorporated 919 00:45:24.265 --> 00:45:27.509 within the group because we're plugging this all became a group not too long ago. 920 00:45:28.492 --> 00:45:28.749 You know, 921 00:45:28.750 --> 00:45:31.632 no one that that that's not very interesting by itself. 922 00:45:31.671 --> 00:45:35.538 I think what's interesting is picking a little bit behind the curtain of what happened. 923 00:45:35.617 --> 00:45:42.781 So just when we started thinking about how it was important to be on console at release, 924 00:45:42.827 --> 00:45:44.343 because back in the days, 925 00:45:44.344 --> 00:45:45.859 it used to be PC release, 926 00:45:46.171 --> 00:45:47.281 maybe six months later, 927 00:45:47.343 --> 00:45:48.827 we might do console with, 928 00:45:49.406 --> 00:45:52.265 we were struggling with a lot of different porting companies, 929 00:45:52.437 --> 00:45:52.687 different 930 00:45:52.749 --> 00:46:22.334 production pipelines you know the drill so we started figuring out that we should probably have like that one company so i remember uh you yeah we're giving we're giving away a little stuff right you came to montpellier from spain because you're you're based in spain we haven't sold that uh you're based in spain and you came to montpellier during lockdown yeah yeah so i remember intern communication was a little bit scrumbley i wasn't quarantined at home and they said you need to come to the office meet this spanish game i was like what 931 00:46:23.218 --> 00:46:40.140 and so we talked about that you were two at the time as you said you're ten now so I remember expressing quite vocally my doubts how two people are going to take care of all our console production that was not the plan obviously but you went from two to ten the 932 00:46:40.171 --> 00:46:40.656 journey man, 933 00:46:40.953 --> 00:46:42.984 how did it go from the first talk to 934 00:46:43.390 --> 00:46:50.906 Plugin Digital to when you meet us we worked together very closely for a couple of years after that so yeah go on tell us your experience 935 00:46:51.602 --> 00:46:51.822 First, 936 00:46:51.842 --> 00:46:58.588 we have to say we met before because when you work for BulkyPix and we distribute 937 00:46:58.991 --> 00:47:03.311 BulkyPix, so we met at Paris a few years before lockdown. 938 00:47:03.530 --> 00:47:04.413 Exactly. 939 00:47:04.873 --> 00:47:06.873 We met in this dinner that we had. 940 00:47:08.452 --> 00:47:10.014 So it was really cool. 941 00:47:10.264 --> 00:47:10.498 I mean, 942 00:47:10.499 --> 00:47:12.077 during this year, 943 00:47:13.436 --> 00:47:14.389 since the lockdown, 944 00:47:15.170 --> 00:47:17.045 when I was here for the first time, 945 00:47:18.248 --> 00:47:19.733 a lot of things have happened. 946 00:47:19.734 --> 00:47:20.670 And I have to say that 947 00:47:21.722 --> 00:47:22.703 It was not, 948 00:47:24.824 --> 00:47:25.365 let's say, 949 00:47:26.885 --> 00:47:28.588 an easy way, 950 00:47:28.807 --> 00:47:29.111 but 951 00:47:29.525 --> 00:47:31.471 Plugin Digital made it easy for us. 952 00:47:31.830 --> 00:47:32.072 I mean, 953 00:47:32.416 --> 00:47:33.955 and this is something that I'm very grateful. 954 00:47:35.213 --> 00:47:41.822 We had the opportunity to work together in new games, 955 00:47:41.947 --> 00:47:47.213 to reach new projects that for pixel ratio were far away, 956 00:47:47.869 --> 00:47:50.557 meaning like console ports. 957 00:47:51.850 --> 00:48:06.706 yeah at least to touch the console side mainly and I think that it was well it has been a very good adventure and we are very happy to be part of Plugin Digital. 958 00:48:08.730 --> 00:48:20.683 During this year we started to make video games for PC at the beginning then we started Nintendo Switch and we needed to demonstrate that 959 00:48:21.249 --> 00:48:27.634 We could build up a team good enough to go ahead with all the projects that you have, 960 00:48:27.814 --> 00:48:34.243 that you shared with us and try to prove that we can be a trusted partner, 961 00:48:34.806 --> 00:48:37.853 that we can work together and that we can have, 962 00:48:38.353 --> 00:48:38.853 let's say, 963 00:48:39.962 --> 00:48:47.728 a vision in common and share this way to bring video games to the player. 964 00:48:48.259 --> 00:48:50.275 And this is the most important thing. 965 00:48:50.549 --> 00:48:58.188 That's why I said that Pluie Digital gave me all the support and 966 00:48:58.610 --> 00:49:00.555 I'm very grateful for that because 967 00:49:01.991 --> 00:49:02.772 If I look back, 968 00:49:03.473 --> 00:49:07.178 I can say again in 2021 we were only two. 969 00:49:07.678 --> 00:49:09.037 We needed to make a team, 970 00:49:10.397 --> 00:49:12.022 double our team in the first year, 971 00:49:12.318 --> 00:49:14.701 then double the team in the year after. 972 00:49:15.443 --> 00:49:16.186 And it's not over. 973 00:49:18.092 --> 00:49:18.951 I know it's not over. 974 00:49:19.373 --> 00:49:22.545 And we need to learn about this experience also. 975 00:49:23.107 --> 00:49:24.326 And because it's not, 976 00:49:24.967 --> 00:49:25.201 you know, 977 00:49:25.357 --> 00:49:25.514 well, 978 00:49:25.576 --> 00:49:26.732 you know better than me, 979 00:49:26.811 --> 00:49:28.123 it's not easy. 980 00:49:29.559 --> 00:49:30.119 to grow, 981 00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:34.623 there are new challenges when you grow and all the, 982 00:49:34.822 --> 00:49:38.306 let's say all the team needs to share more or less the same vision, 983 00:49:38.345 --> 00:49:44.033 the same way to do things this is the most important to us and yeah, 984 00:49:44.275 --> 00:49:52.517 I always had someone from PID or from the villagers always back helping us, 985 00:49:52.705 --> 00:49:53.455 giving our support, 986 00:49:53.486 --> 00:49:57.486 so I have to say that it was a good experience and 987 00:49:58.022 --> 00:50:12.997 yeah happy to be here i think uh culture is important as you say so to work with a spanish company it's easier for french people to work with i don't know asian or south american company because are 988 00:50:12.998 --> 00:50:27.333 you talking to the half asian guy who lives in south america that's why i think that um no but for the culture it's not a problem and as far as we already work with uh with the picture in the past. 989 00:50:28.010 --> 00:50:31.054 We trust in the company and in you. 990 00:50:31.714 --> 00:50:36.996 And what was very interesting for us as well was your mobile culture. 991 00:50:37.082 --> 00:50:37.941 Because as I said, 992 00:50:38.300 --> 00:50:41.105 for us it's very important to be able on all kind of platforms. 993 00:50:41.847 --> 00:50:56.964 And it's easier to find a company with console experience than a company with mobile experience because it's more difficult to find on the... 994 00:50:58.303 --> 00:50:58.944 on the market. 995 00:50:59.324 --> 00:51:09.272 And I think it's easier to move from mobile to console than to console to mobile in terms of experience. 996 00:51:09.772 --> 00:51:14.756 So that's why when we started to discuss together, 997 00:51:15.975 --> 00:51:20.381 I thought Pixel Ratio was a good candidate because you have this culture. 998 00:51:22.803 --> 00:51:24.647 And now it works quite well. 999 00:51:26.294 --> 00:51:27.635 And to retrace it properly, 1000 00:51:27.756 --> 00:51:29.477 because although it's been a bumpy road, 1001 00:51:29.577 --> 00:51:30.280 we grew too. 1002 00:51:30.858 --> 00:51:31.057 Yeah. 1003 00:51:31.058 --> 00:51:33.862 But we were like 25 and we're 60 now. 1004 00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:34.182 Yeah, 1005 00:51:34.585 --> 00:51:35.585 you said you were two, 1006 00:51:35.600 --> 00:51:36.686 we were 25. 1007 00:51:36.687 --> 00:51:36.827 Yeah. 1008 00:51:36.928 --> 00:51:37.506 Now we are 1009 00:51:37.928 --> 00:51:39.163 70 and... 1010 00:51:39.350 --> 00:51:39.749 And also, 1011 00:51:40.405 --> 00:51:40.647 I mean, 1012 00:51:41.631 --> 00:51:42.475 that could be good, 1013 00:51:42.756 --> 00:51:43.928 but you're our first acquisition. 1014 00:51:44.506 --> 00:51:46.741 So there was a lot to learn on both sides. 1015 00:51:46.850 --> 00:51:47.178 You know, 1016 00:51:47.179 --> 00:51:47.663 it was okay, 1017 00:51:47.710 --> 00:51:51.241 how do we integrate a new company within our workflow? 1018 00:51:51.397 --> 00:51:52.413 What is our workflow? 1019 00:51:52.414 --> 00:51:53.178 and that we needed to 1020 00:51:54.130 --> 00:51:57.414 rethink also the way we thought about porting. 1021 00:51:57.915 --> 00:52:04.622 So that taught us to rethink how to do marketing and how to do scouting and how to do production. 1022 00:52:04.958 --> 00:52:07.763 So the learning curve was mutual, 1023 00:52:07.927 --> 00:52:08.247 I think. 1024 00:52:08.388 --> 00:52:09.763 So it's kind of like, 1025 00:52:10.060 --> 00:52:12.654 it's a funny thing to go from like, 1026 00:52:12.732 --> 00:52:12.872 yeah, 1027 00:52:12.888 --> 00:52:13.076 okay, 1028 00:52:13.107 --> 00:52:19.451 let's throw you one thing and take you by the hand and carry you a little bit. 1029 00:52:19.576 --> 00:52:20.357 And nowadays, 1030 00:52:20.358 --> 00:52:21.201 to be super honest, 1031 00:52:21.202 --> 00:52:22.826 I think you carry us most of the time. 1032 00:52:24.035 --> 00:52:25.236 when we're deep into production. 1033 00:52:25.316 --> 00:52:31.062 So it's funny to see how things went from one meeting during lockdown to where it is now, 1034 00:52:31.301 --> 00:52:31.898 which is pretty fun. 1035 00:52:33.867 --> 00:52:34.008 Yeah. 1036 00:52:35.187 --> 00:52:39.406 So now we can talk about console room. 1037 00:52:39.914 --> 00:52:40.976 Yeah, 1038 00:52:40.977 --> 00:52:44.508 I think that the one thing that people might not know, 1039 00:52:44.633 --> 00:52:46.617 so I think everyone might fathom, 1040 00:52:46.758 --> 00:52:51.726 that it is a very technical and complicated task to port a game on console most of the time. 1041 00:52:52.258 --> 00:52:56.924 What people might not know is how time consuming it is to actually release it. 1042 00:52:57.362 --> 00:52:58.944 So we talked a little bit about TRC, 1043 00:52:59.225 --> 00:53:00.045 all those rules, 1044 00:53:00.046 --> 00:53:00.264 you know, 1045 00:53:00.265 --> 00:53:02.530 it could be stuff as stupid as, 1046 00:53:02.709 --> 00:53:02.967 you know, 1047 00:53:03.147 --> 00:53:05.053 you display a controller in your tutorial. 1048 00:53:05.475 --> 00:53:05.655 Well, 1049 00:53:05.772 --> 00:53:07.412 if it's not the PlayStation controller, 1050 00:53:07.475 --> 00:53:07.795 you're not, 1051 00:53:07.936 --> 00:53:10.022 that's not going through right to, 1052 00:53:10.256 --> 00:53:11.100 you can't have a, 1053 00:53:11.397 --> 00:53:11.522 a, 1054 00:53:12.819 --> 00:53:16.881 a website address in the credit of your game with Nintendo and you know, 1055 00:53:16.928 --> 00:53:17.740 all this little thing. 1056 00:53:18.006 --> 00:53:21.584 and it takes a month to pass certification. 1057 00:53:22.038 --> 00:53:23.478 two weeks still at prices, 1058 00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:26.239 or you cannot submit whenever you want on PlayStation. 1059 00:53:26.297 --> 00:53:29.520 So how in your own, 1060 00:53:29.521 --> 00:53:29.661 I mean, 1061 00:53:30.016 --> 00:53:33.563 we know because we've been doing that for years and decades even, 1062 00:53:34.524 --> 00:53:35.500 in your experience, 1063 00:53:35.602 --> 00:53:44.047 how near impossible it might be for a solo dev to go through all those hoops by themselves. 1064 00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:45.060 Well, 1065 00:53:45.520 --> 00:53:45.640 yeah, 1066 00:53:45.800 --> 00:53:48.221 I think it's for sure is a big task. 1067 00:53:48.522 --> 00:53:50.862 And I think that is part of the reason that we are here. 1068 00:53:51.123 --> 00:53:51.342 I mean, 1069 00:53:52.143 --> 00:53:59.283 it's not easy because there are so many challenges to put a video game in a console. 1070 00:53:59.604 --> 00:54:00.166 In console, 1071 00:54:00.244 --> 00:54:01.463 if you have it in PC, 1072 00:54:02.229 --> 00:54:03.057 put it on mobile, 1073 00:54:03.385 --> 00:54:03.869 things like that. 1074 00:54:03.963 --> 00:54:04.182 I mean, 1075 00:54:04.183 --> 00:54:05.588 to make a port at the end. 1076 00:54:06.791 --> 00:54:13.760 And I think that one of the important things here and one of the reasons why we are here is to 1077 00:54:14.756 --> 00:54:20.163 Let the developer to focus on what he is doing well, 1078 00:54:20.440 --> 00:54:21.683 which is a video game. 1079 00:54:22.323 --> 00:54:25.229 Try to translate this experience for all the players, 1080 00:54:25.425 --> 00:54:27.206 for its audience. 1081 00:54:27.948 --> 00:54:32.487 And we are going to help them with all of these struggles, 1082 00:54:33.018 --> 00:54:34.112 with all of these risks, 1083 00:54:34.409 --> 00:54:38.143 with managing a lot of tasks. 1084 00:54:38.372 --> 00:54:40.373 that you are a lot of, 1085 00:54:40.674 --> 00:54:41.035 let's say, 1086 00:54:41.154 --> 00:54:44.119 rules that you need to meet with your game in order to send it. 1087 00:54:45.318 --> 00:54:59.908 Also to give them a clear idea about what will be a plan when we need to have some kind of version of the game that could be approved by 1088 00:55:00.471 --> 00:55:01.330 Sony, Nintendo, 1089 00:55:01.549 --> 00:55:02.252 Microsoft. 1090 00:55:02.799 --> 00:55:06.877 What are the main topics that we need to cover? 1091 00:55:07.484 --> 00:55:11.427 And I think that this is why it's good that, 1092 00:55:11.708 --> 00:55:12.368 in my opinion, 1093 00:55:12.868 --> 00:55:18.775 that the indie developer could count on us because there is a lot of things. 1094 00:55:19.118 --> 00:55:21.134 They have all the passion to make the video game, 1095 00:55:21.939 --> 00:55:28.790 but sometimes they don't have all the time to do a lot of things that you need to cover in a port. 1096 00:55:29.181 --> 00:55:30.181 It's not creative. 1097 00:55:30.681 --> 00:55:31.368 I mean, 1098 00:55:31.540 --> 00:55:32.384 we're going through all... 1099 00:55:32.924 --> 00:55:47.961 it's a little a little backstory we we don't so the way we do distribution for consoles we don't charge the studios who come to us right we do we take we take a part of the revenue and that that is the core of our added value because well we 1100 00:55:47.977 --> 00:56:02.235 can argue that they could be technically able to do the port by themselves actually being able to submit pass all the craziness and go through it and then now that's something else that that is 1101 00:56:02.580 --> 00:56:03.501 the value that we had, 1102 00:56:03.541 --> 00:56:03.801 you know, 1103 00:56:04.041 --> 00:56:04.983 for the fact that, 1104 00:56:05.563 --> 00:56:05.684 yeah, 1105 00:56:05.743 --> 00:56:11.372 you need your store page to be translated in like 15 languages to just release on PlayStation 5, 1106 00:56:12.106 --> 00:56:14.309 keep up with the crazy rules that change overnight, 1107 00:56:14.731 --> 00:56:16.575 how do you manage the life cycle and, 1108 00:56:16.911 --> 00:56:17.176 you know, 1109 00:56:17.177 --> 00:56:18.661 the international pricing. 1110 00:56:19.254 --> 00:56:20.754 It's not as easy as Steam, 1111 00:56:20.911 --> 00:56:21.426 basically. 1112 00:56:21.551 --> 00:56:23.379 There's no self-publishing tool on that. 1113 00:56:23.442 --> 00:56:26.817 Everything goes through someone and the rules change. 1114 00:56:26.911 --> 00:56:27.707 They're all different. 1115 00:56:28.223 --> 00:56:28.770 So this is, 1116 00:56:29.145 --> 00:56:29.426 I think, 1117 00:56:29.567 --> 00:56:31.848 collectively you now being part of 1118 00:56:32.336 --> 00:56:50.767 what we do and who we are that's that is what we bring to the cindy studio that just this is the most boring part of it and one thing to say is to port on console you need a material it's not the case on mobile or pc you need dev kit development 1119 00:56:50.798 --> 00:57:01.548 key to mostly so it's not always easy to to get one especially on switch to at the moment for instance um so for sure plug-in has a 1120 00:57:01.596 --> 00:57:19.549 publisher we have an easy access let's say to dev kit but for an indie dev or solo dev or small studio it's not always easy to get one it's costly because it could be quite costly so 1121 00:57:20.752 --> 00:57:30.330 at the end it yeah it's not so easy for everyone to move on could you tell us like just funny story like the 1122 00:57:31.092 --> 00:57:49.052 the most ridiculous reason why a submission has failed for you i know i have my own like what why just why story but what would be yours just like what an anecdote well i didn't have it to prepare my mind because we we have we have some uh some 1123 00:57:49.505 --> 00:58:00.146 failures in uh in this kind of approval but yeah i mean some uh very something very 1124 00:58:00.764 --> 00:58:16.002 stupid like in example take care about a good expression in a tutorial in example what we're talking about you need to meet exactly the you 1125 00:58:16.003 --> 00:58:30.260 cannot be too much creative when you want to show a controller in example so you are thinking like okay this is going to be good because we are meeting all the different rules the this graphic looks cool and is integrated in the game and then. 1126 00:58:30.556 --> 00:58:31.896 Someone is going to tell you, 1127 00:58:32.196 --> 00:58:32.356 well, 1128 00:58:32.517 --> 00:58:32.657 look, 1129 00:58:33.196 --> 00:58:34.116 wait a little bit. 1130 00:58:34.577 --> 00:58:34.698 No, 1131 00:58:34.897 --> 00:58:36.276 I need something more clear. 1132 00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:37.179 But yeah, 1133 00:58:37.198 --> 00:58:37.417 I mean, 1134 00:58:37.679 --> 00:58:41.440 we have something like that. 1135 00:58:41.776 --> 00:58:42.558 Not very funny, 1136 00:58:42.597 --> 00:58:43.261 I have to say, 1137 00:58:43.362 --> 00:58:45.058 when you face it. 1138 00:58:45.901 --> 00:58:49.847 I think my personal horror story for failing a submission is, 1139 00:58:50.456 --> 00:58:50.706 you know, 1140 00:58:50.956 --> 00:58:52.628 you have to name the build. 1141 00:58:53.220 --> 00:59:10.734 a certain way and i think like it was something stupid like either one capital letter was not capital or one one was a two in the name of the build and we felt submission for that this is why we just needed to rename the binary but they would fail you 1142 00:59:10.859 --> 00:59:19.421 must be very square yeah everything yeah yeah it is and also so and one thing i want to tackle is is so we 1143 00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:21.943 We build relationships with the first parties. 1144 00:59:22.062 --> 00:59:24.323 We meet with them all the time, 1145 00:59:24.866 --> 00:59:25.405 maybe three, 1146 00:59:25.487 --> 00:59:26.327 four times a year. 1147 00:59:27.386 --> 00:59:37.503 And so this is also our job to be on top of the changes because those rules change all the time and without any warning. 1148 00:59:38.362 --> 00:59:46.003 And sometimes even some games released make them realize something and then they start implementing new rules. 1149 00:59:46.472 --> 00:59:47.019 I think it was the 1150 00:59:47.612 --> 00:59:48.347 Metal Gear Solid. 1151 00:59:49.968 --> 01:00:09.470 four that implemented the rules because it was just so long the loading screen when snake was smoking that because of this game they implemented the rule that you need to have a now loading for anything over five seconds or so so it changes all the time it's it's never fixed so it's also our job to talk to them have the dog have the new the 1152 01:00:09.502 --> 01:00:16.970 new info and make sure that you like you don't you don't go crazy with it because like that that will drive you mad probably we have a I'd like to meet three people within that. 1153 01:00:17.299 --> 01:00:17.502 Yeah, 1154 01:00:17.892 --> 01:00:18.783 we have our... 1155 01:00:19.936 --> 01:00:37.222 internal tester that is in charge of quality but also on our guidelines and she used to review things is crazy because is what you say sometimes you know from one day to another different 1156 01:00:37.441 --> 01:00:46.722 amount of guidance now are become one now what you thought it was needed just today now is deprecated and you need to meet another new rule. 1157 01:00:47.457 --> 01:00:48.160 So yeah, 1158 01:00:48.628 --> 01:00:48.738 it 1159 01:00:49.048 --> 01:00:52.571 Try to be updated with this is a work. 1160 01:00:53.132 --> 01:00:53.413 I mean, 1161 01:00:54.175 --> 01:00:55.194 and that's why, 1162 01:00:55.675 --> 01:00:55.835 well, 1163 01:00:56.096 --> 01:00:58.401 if we go back to the subject, 1164 01:00:58.636 --> 01:01:10.542 that's why we think we can help the developers to focus on the creative side and let us help you on these other parts that are important. 1165 01:01:10.604 --> 01:01:12.573 You can be good on everything. 1166 01:01:12.885 --> 01:01:13.573 It's impossible. 1167 01:01:13.776 --> 01:01:15.120 So it's impossible. 1168 01:01:15.276 --> 01:01:18.354 Especially because sometimes they will make up the rule as they go. 1169 01:01:19.380 --> 01:01:19.620 Also, 1170 01:01:20.061 --> 01:01:22.503 it happens that technically you meet the criteria, 1171 01:01:22.544 --> 01:01:25.888 but they will just refuse something because they don't feel like it. 1172 01:01:26.665 --> 01:01:28.048 They can and they do do that. 1173 01:01:28.267 --> 01:01:29.509 So yeah, 1174 01:01:30.111 --> 01:01:31.493 it's not a matter of talent. 1175 01:01:31.736 --> 01:01:32.650 It is a matter of knowledge, 1176 01:01:33.158 --> 01:01:34.533 but it's also a matter of like, 1177 01:01:34.595 --> 01:01:35.501 is it really your job, 1178 01:01:36.251 --> 01:01:38.720 you in the studio to go through that? 1179 01:01:38.798 --> 01:01:39.361 I don't think so. 1180 01:01:39.861 --> 01:01:40.423 That's what we do, 1181 01:01:40.517 --> 01:01:40.704 right? 1182 01:01:40.720 --> 01:01:45.079 This is why we take the cut that we take. 1183 01:01:46.048 --> 01:01:49.572 Just we are at the end of this podcast. 1184 01:01:49.592 --> 01:01:53.115 So we talk about pixel ratio five years ago, 1185 01:01:53.494 --> 01:01:53.955 two people. 1186 01:01:55.299 --> 01:01:57.924 How do you see pixel ratio in five years? 1187 01:01:59.463 --> 01:02:02.142 How can you imagine pixel ratio? 1188 01:02:02.752 --> 01:02:02.877 Yeah, 1189 01:02:03.299 --> 01:02:03.439 well, 1190 01:02:03.486 --> 01:02:07.142 I think that the trend is that we are going to keep growing. 1191 01:02:07.189 --> 01:02:07.877 But for sure, 1192 01:02:07.908 --> 01:02:11.627 what we want to have is new games, 1193 01:02:11.830 --> 01:02:13.549 new challenge to work on with you. 1194 01:02:14.377 --> 01:02:14.674 and 1195 01:02:15.520 --> 01:02:16.100 Yeah, 1196 01:02:16.260 --> 01:02:16.981 why not? 1197 01:02:18.880 --> 01:02:22.622 Maybe do something together internally? 1198 01:02:22.982 --> 01:02:23.403 I don't know, 1199 01:02:23.443 --> 01:02:24.099 a video game? 1200 01:02:24.739 --> 01:02:25.239 But yeah, 1201 01:02:25.302 --> 01:02:25.685 for sure. 1202 01:02:27.122 --> 01:02:36.958 This industry always has a surprise and we want to accept any challenge that could happen in the future. 1203 01:02:37.552 --> 01:02:43.052 We are ready for that and we want to keep doing video games. 1204 01:02:43.271 --> 01:02:44.130 This is our dream. 1205 01:02:45.284 --> 01:02:45.745 doing it, 1206 01:02:47.126 --> 01:02:49.189 we are going to fight for it. 1207 01:02:49.286 --> 01:02:49.888 That's for sure. 1208 01:02:51.310 --> 01:02:51.751 Thanks a lot. 1209 01:02:51.790 --> 01:02:52.450 Thanks, 1210 01:02:52.513 --> 01:02:52.692 Juan. 1211 01:02:53.013 --> 01:02:53.755 Thank you very much. 1212 01:02:53.810 --> 01:02:55.935 Thanks for listening to this podcast. 1213 01:02:56.677 --> 01:02:57.060 Of course, 1214 01:02:57.677 --> 01:02:59.380 if you have some ideas, 1215 01:02:59.700 --> 01:03:02.294 if you want to join for a 1216 01:03:02.778 --> 01:03:04.216 PID podcast in the future, 1217 01:03:04.356 --> 01:03:08.763 don't hesitate to reach us and we will be happy to receive you there.