WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.740 --> 00:00:01.960 Hi, 2 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:07.584 welcome back to the Deep Seed podcast and happy holidays to anyone listening. 3 00:00:08.425 --> 00:00:19.152 I really appreciate you spending your time listening to these conversations and feeding your brain and your soul with all of that wisdom and that knowledge that I went and captured. 4 00:00:19.580 --> 00:00:22.823 from some truly amazing people over the last year. 5 00:00:23.624 --> 00:00:27.128 Today I'm revisiting my conversation with Anna van Leeuwen. 6 00:00:27.969 --> 00:00:36.738 She's a regenerative farmer from the Netherlands who had to move to a new farm this year and she explains the process of accessing that land, 7 00:00:37.158 --> 00:00:38.219 writing a business plan, 8 00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:42.764 planning a whole farming system from scratch and so much more. 9 00:00:43.716 --> 00:00:49.881 She's such a beautiful and inspiring human being with an incredibly warm and positive energy. 10 00:00:50.962 --> 00:00:59.208 I feel blessed to have met her and to have had the opportunity to visit her new farm and to speak with her for a couple of hours for the podcast. 11 00:01:00.008 --> 00:01:00.529 As usual, 12 00:01:00.829 --> 00:01:05.332 I strongly recommend going back and listening to the full original conversation. 13 00:01:05.492 --> 00:01:07.634 But if you're short on time, 14 00:01:07.754 --> 00:01:10.256 here's a shorter 25 minute version. 15 00:01:11.304 --> 00:01:14.526 This episode was made in partnership with Soil Capital. 16 00:01:15.186 --> 00:01:15.867 I am your host, 17 00:01:16.127 --> 00:01:16.607 Raphael, 18 00:01:17.187 --> 00:01:18.928 and this is the Deep Seed Podcast. 19 00:01:26.893 --> 00:01:28.714 This farm that was bought, 20 00:01:29.054 --> 00:01:30.055 we're now in Lochem, 21 00:01:30.375 --> 00:01:31.776 in the east of the Netherlands, 22 00:01:31.836 --> 00:01:32.436 in the Achterhoek, 23 00:01:32.436 --> 00:01:33.276 in a different place. 24 00:01:34.597 --> 00:01:36.198 This farm was bought by 25 00:01:36.938 --> 00:01:38.839 Lenteland, an organization, 26 00:01:38.839 --> 00:01:39.440 a foundation. 27 00:01:40.140 --> 00:01:46.382 that buys farms and that realizes actually regenerative community farms. 28 00:01:47.282 --> 00:01:51.903 But we never intended to apply to this farm because we thought we already had our farm. 29 00:01:52.643 --> 00:02:01.886 But something went unexpectedly in that process and there was again an opening for applying to this farm but only like 30 00:02:02.406 --> 00:02:09.168 I think a week later from when we officially heard there was no future for us anymore at the other farm. 31 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:10.820 And then I thought, 32 00:02:10.920 --> 00:02:11.180 God, 33 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:12.201 perhaps they're like, 34 00:02:12.781 --> 00:02:13.041 you know, 35 00:02:13.521 --> 00:02:15.522 very much of a roller coaster feeling, 36 00:02:15.522 --> 00:02:21.143 but perhaps they're like two stars in the sky that actually should align and we should apply for this farm. 37 00:02:23.004 --> 00:02:35.907 So we applied and then we got through this very serious selective process of writing a business plan that was way more challenging than the business plan that we initially wrote for five hectares, 38 00:02:35.927 --> 00:02:38.368 because this is 45 hectares and a huge investment. 39 00:02:39.288 --> 00:02:43.930 So we needed to make it work because otherwise we should never start this. 40 00:02:45.691 --> 00:02:48.492 And I could have never done it like four or five years ago. 41 00:02:49.973 --> 00:02:55.795 I would have never done this project and I could also have never done it with the team that we have now, 42 00:02:55.875 --> 00:02:56.876 which is an amazing team. 43 00:02:56.896 --> 00:02:58.976 So I'm not at all farming here alone. 44 00:02:58.976 --> 00:02:59.097 No, 45 00:02:59.137 --> 00:03:04.399 we have a very great team of four farmers that are managing the place. 46 00:03:04.679 --> 00:03:06.780 So it's just me and my partner. 47 00:03:07.404 --> 00:03:11.067 And then we have Rose who is farming and hosting. 48 00:03:11.788 --> 00:03:14.250 Also I have a campsite here that she manages, 49 00:03:14.270 --> 00:03:16.953 but she's also sort of a host of the whole, 50 00:03:16.993 --> 00:03:17.734 we call it ERV, 51 00:03:17.914 --> 00:03:22.298 it's the whole place where also the community aspect happens of the farm. 52 00:03:23.058 --> 00:03:32.087 And we have Dan who is a really young talented farmer who was an apprentice at our previous farm and we already saw that this guy is really, 53 00:03:32.287 --> 00:03:32.547 you know, 54 00:03:32.667 --> 00:03:33.268 he has got... 55 00:03:33.836 --> 00:03:49.641 talent for farming but also an ecological sensitivity that you don't see a lot in people and totally in love with trees and we thought we actually really need him on our team because we have a very ambitious plan for agroforestry and 56 00:03:49.641 --> 00:03:55.442 a tree nursery in this place and he was sort of perfect for you know making this happen. 57 00:03:56.423 --> 00:04:01.384 So that's also why we shifted not only we changed farm 58 00:04:02.580 --> 00:04:30.912 but we also changed team and organization and now we've landed here for yeah a little over two months yes it's very new very fresh it's very new it's very fresh yeah i could see it with my own eyes you just gave me a quick tour of the of the farm just before we started the conversation it looks super promising and you showed me the map the plan of it all and yeah i i guess it must have been very very hard to leave the farm behind yeah um but at the same time 59 00:04:31.332 --> 00:04:52.527 once you've I guess um you've accepted it uh and move you decided to move forward it's very exciting to start a new project like that with everything you've learned so far with a great team of people like that and just to be able to not make the same mistakes that you probably did in the past yeah I guess everyone does yeah yeah make some more yeah but you know for sure yeah it 60 00:04:52.527 --> 00:04:59.732 must be very exciting and I'm excited for you yeah thanks yeah it is but it was like only peaks like sort of I'm also like okay 61 00:05:00.496 --> 00:05:06.400 In the next years we need to make some space for the middle grounds because it was like only super high super low and 62 00:05:06.840 --> 00:05:12.404 The thing that really helped me also was we organized a really beautiful goodbye ceremony also with our 63 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:16.182 community of people who were eating from the farm, 64 00:05:16.202 --> 00:05:17.503 who were connected to the farm, 65 00:05:17.523 --> 00:05:18.663 who were learning at the farm, 66 00:05:18.663 --> 00:05:19.744 who were working at the farm, 67 00:05:20.404 --> 00:05:20.664 you know, 68 00:05:21.325 --> 00:05:22.566 to say goodbye to the place. 69 00:05:23.206 --> 00:05:25.087 And to do that together was beautiful. 70 00:05:25.727 --> 00:05:27.428 And then we had the grand opening here, 71 00:05:28.409 --> 00:05:29.350 I think a week after. 72 00:05:30.150 --> 00:05:30.730 And yeah, 73 00:05:30.750 --> 00:05:33.092 that really helped also to land again. 74 00:05:33.752 --> 00:05:38.395 And now I feel like I've looked like very short tap roots, 75 00:05:38.415 --> 00:05:39.115 but you know, 76 00:05:39.175 --> 00:05:39.956 I can start to. 77 00:05:41.008 --> 00:05:41.949 Nice. 78 00:05:43.069 --> 00:05:45.831 But I can feel your optimism and your excitement. 79 00:05:46.311 --> 00:05:46.611 Yes, 80 00:05:46.911 --> 00:05:48.212 it's an amazing place. 81 00:05:48.252 --> 00:05:51.834 And it's also really amazing to work with Lenteland, 82 00:05:52.635 --> 00:05:53.515 so this organization, 83 00:05:53.575 --> 00:06:07.643 because the beauty of the model of Lenteland is they buy a farm as a foundation and then they set up this local corporation that owns the buildings and the grounds. 84 00:06:08.884 --> 00:06:09.244 And then... 85 00:06:10.384 --> 00:06:17.546 That is refinanced with our business plan and by inviting people to become co-owner of the place. 86 00:06:18.407 --> 00:06:22.088 So that money comes back in and then we pay, 87 00:06:22.708 --> 00:06:23.428 we pay that to 88 00:06:23.788 --> 00:06:24.629 Lentiland Foundation. 89 00:06:24.649 --> 00:06:25.409 And with that money, 90 00:06:26.049 --> 00:06:26.869 they buy another farm. 91 00:06:28.430 --> 00:06:34.132 So it's sort of like a revolving farm fund in which... 92 00:06:35.960 --> 00:06:39.643 Everything that we invest in this place actually results in another amazing place. 93 00:06:40.264 --> 00:06:41.144 And that's the beauty of it. 94 00:06:41.284 --> 00:06:41.965 That's incredible. 95 00:06:41.985 --> 00:06:43.967 That's actually what I was going to ask you about, 96 00:06:44.027 --> 00:06:46.389 because I know that access to land is a very, 97 00:06:46.449 --> 00:06:47.209 very key topic. 98 00:06:47.209 --> 00:06:48.330 It's very difficult, 99 00:06:48.490 --> 00:06:49.911 sadly enough. 100 00:06:50.412 --> 00:06:58.678 But something that keeps coming back on the conversations I've had on the podcast is that there's going to be a whole generation of farmers retiring quite soon. 101 00:06:58.859 --> 00:07:02.261 And a lot of them don't necessarily have someone taking over the farm yet. 102 00:07:02.461 --> 00:07:05.384 And so there's going to be a need for a lot of... 103 00:07:05.924 --> 00:07:06.324 farmers, 104 00:07:06.804 --> 00:07:07.445 young farmers, 105 00:07:07.565 --> 00:07:08.465 or not so young, 106 00:07:08.465 --> 00:07:09.025 it doesn't matter. 107 00:07:09.065 --> 00:07:15.867 And access to land seems to be the number one and the biggest issue the biggest hurdle to get over. 108 00:07:16.867 --> 00:07:17.827 It's a huge issue. 109 00:07:18.108 --> 00:07:18.328 Yeah. 110 00:07:18.848 --> 00:07:20.868 This model sounds very promising, 111 00:07:20.968 --> 00:07:21.689 very interesting. 112 00:07:21.809 --> 00:07:22.109 It is, 113 00:07:22.189 --> 00:07:22.309 yeah. 114 00:07:22.329 --> 00:07:27.810 And the great thing is that people can really connect to the place and also co-own the place. 115 00:07:27.830 --> 00:07:33.272 So I love the beauty of in a way it sort of merges the regenerative with the commons thinking. 116 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:39.822 Because it is also a bit crazy that we own land or who owns land and why? 117 00:07:41.023 --> 00:07:43.964 These are weird questions and you see it's so speculative. 118 00:07:44.004 --> 00:07:44.524 In the Netherlands, 119 00:07:44.564 --> 00:07:48.806 it's so extremely expensive to get access to a house, 120 00:07:48.806 --> 00:07:51.187 to get access to land as a farmer. 121 00:07:51.948 --> 00:07:57.490 It's crazy if you have to repay a debt for buying a place like this with carrots. 122 00:07:57.710 --> 00:07:57.990 I mean, 123 00:07:58.110 --> 00:07:58.670 it's just like, 124 00:08:00.791 --> 00:08:02.172 it's just crazy because we... 125 00:08:02.612 --> 00:08:19.022 we just we've been paying less and less of our income to food and the house price and the land price has just gone up and like it's totally out of balance there's no almost no sense in it anymore um so now you've you've acquired your piece of land and your farm 126 00:08:19.762 --> 00:08:28.708 45 hectares of land which you've told me earlier is a big farm in the netherlands a big farm in the netherlands i still haven't really gotten my head around the 127 00:08:29.308 --> 00:08:29.888 The size. 128 00:08:30.128 --> 00:08:31.949 The size is when I hear a number of hectares, 129 00:08:31.949 --> 00:08:32.489 I'm struggling. 130 00:08:32.489 --> 00:08:33.850 It's like 90 football fields. 131 00:08:34.910 --> 00:08:35.931 So 45 hectares, 132 00:08:35.971 --> 00:08:40.353 which is a really nice scale for a farm in the Netherlands. 133 00:08:41.133 --> 00:08:42.574 So now you have all of that space. 134 00:08:43.254 --> 00:08:45.835 You need to create a plan, 135 00:08:45.855 --> 00:08:46.215 I guess, 136 00:08:46.335 --> 00:08:47.596 of what you're going to plant, 137 00:08:47.776 --> 00:08:48.096 where, 138 00:08:48.276 --> 00:08:49.036 what you're going to grow. 139 00:08:49.476 --> 00:08:50.737 Then we start it off with, 140 00:08:50.757 --> 00:08:51.737 which is a really good thing. 141 00:08:51.737 --> 00:08:51.837 Yeah, 142 00:08:51.857 --> 00:08:54.419 it's a part of the plan. 143 00:08:54.939 --> 00:08:55.259 Plan, 144 00:08:55.359 --> 00:08:56.559 because otherwise it's not going to work. 145 00:08:56.900 --> 00:08:57.840 But I'm curious about... 146 00:08:58.040 --> 00:09:19.257 how you make that plan how you make the decisions about what to grow yeah how much of what is it more based on your climate your the weather locally the soil yeah or is it more about the supply chains and the demand and like maybe you can tell me more about yeah it's it's in in that way always context specific like what do you grow where and why um so 147 00:09:19.898 --> 00:09:27.544 the in a way it is sort of similar to what we were planning at our 148 00:09:28.340 --> 00:09:29.821 small scale farm in Malden, 149 00:09:31.942 --> 00:09:35.364 but then in a different context and on a different scale and a different team. 150 00:09:35.444 --> 00:09:37.185 So things change. 151 00:09:37.285 --> 00:09:41.608 And also this neighborhood is also very different. 152 00:09:42.628 --> 00:09:47.171 So you do take all of these things in account before you make a plan. 153 00:09:48.211 --> 00:09:49.872 The thing we knew that we are, 154 00:09:52.934 --> 00:09:53.094 yeah, 155 00:09:53.274 --> 00:09:55.936 we really love to grow as much perennial as we can. 156 00:09:56.336 --> 00:09:57.978 Because that makes so much sense, 157 00:09:58.518 --> 00:09:59.139 climate-wise, 158 00:09:59.179 --> 00:09:59.960 water-wise, 159 00:10:01.261 --> 00:10:02.362 resiliency-wise. 160 00:10:02.422 --> 00:10:03.423 But also here, 161 00:10:03.543 --> 00:10:05.385 this is a landscape full of trees. 162 00:10:07.567 --> 00:10:09.569 It's famous for its coulisse landscape. 163 00:10:09.629 --> 00:10:14.194 So it's like famous for these small fields surrounded by trees. 164 00:10:14.194 --> 00:10:15.876 And a lot of these trees have been cut. 165 00:10:17.040 --> 00:10:18.461 over the years in this region. 166 00:10:19.522 --> 00:10:25.165 So it makes a lot of sense in this specific local context to replant trees. 167 00:10:26.445 --> 00:10:36.571 And we also dove a little bit into the history of the place and we had a lot of really nice conversations with the previous farmers who were still here when we moved in. 168 00:10:39.652 --> 00:10:43.534 To really understand what was going on here and how this farm developed. 169 00:10:43.555 --> 00:10:46.076 So the farm is called Schagel. 170 00:10:46.536 --> 00:11:01.883 which is totally impossible in any other language i guess uh but it's it's it's a dutch name for plant medica gale and gale is a specific marsh plant like a 171 00:11:01.903 --> 00:11:13.868 plant that likes to grow in really peaty marshlands because this used to be a place with a lot of turf but they you know dug it all out and removed the turf and then they put other 172 00:11:14.592 --> 00:11:31.944 soil and then they sort of drained the place and then it became agriculture or agricultural landscape so one of the things that was very clear for us is like we should regenerate this farm in a way that there is place again for 173 00:11:31.984 --> 00:11:43.392 milica gale because that's at the root of this farm and there was actually a plant that was used in beer before we grew hop so that was an interesting thing 174 00:11:44.380 --> 00:11:47.101 So I hope we're going to have a Gagelbier in the future. 175 00:11:49.462 --> 00:11:50.023 That's for sure. 176 00:11:50.263 --> 00:11:54.224 So we knew there should be a sort of a marshland should be part of this ecosystem. 177 00:11:54.224 --> 00:11:58.066 And also water makes all of the difference because now it's landscape that drains. 178 00:11:59.207 --> 00:12:01.688 But if you have a way to really capture that water, 179 00:12:01.928 --> 00:12:02.628 let it sink in, 180 00:12:02.748 --> 00:12:03.428 filtrate, 181 00:12:03.589 --> 00:12:04.389 slow it down, 182 00:12:04.649 --> 00:12:06.150 make it part again of this landscape, 183 00:12:06.150 --> 00:12:08.171 then life will just burst out of it, 184 00:12:08.171 --> 00:12:09.191 of course. 185 00:12:09.411 --> 00:12:11.292 I also have a partner who is... 186 00:12:11.672 --> 00:12:29.546 crazy about amphibians so it should be a place where tree fox can thrive there was also something sort of clear uh to us and yeah you need a model which we also figured out in um in our journey towards our first farm you need a model which you can have income on 187 00:12:29.526 --> 00:12:40.956 a short term uh midterm waiting for long-term um income from trees and especially not trees because they might take nine or ten years so 188 00:12:42.628 --> 00:12:44.209 And the basic idea for that was, 189 00:12:44.249 --> 00:12:44.369 OK, 190 00:12:44.869 --> 00:12:46.629 if we start a no-dig garden, 191 00:12:46.869 --> 00:12:47.129 you know, 192 00:12:47.109 --> 00:12:48.670 you can grow vegetables immediately. 193 00:12:48.950 --> 00:12:49.330 Like now, 194 00:12:49.370 --> 00:12:52.331 we just put down a garden and you can grow vegetables. 195 00:12:52.631 --> 00:12:53.571 So it's immediate income. 196 00:12:53.591 --> 00:12:56.452 We have chickens in Agmobus that we, 197 00:12:57.213 --> 00:12:57.453 you know, 198 00:12:57.513 --> 00:12:59.453 drive around for holistic plant grazing. 199 00:13:00.234 --> 00:13:02.054 And you have eggs immediately. 200 00:13:02.154 --> 00:13:03.595 So you immediately have something you can sell, 201 00:13:03.635 --> 00:13:04.815 you can build up a market with. 202 00:13:05.235 --> 00:13:05.575 Small, 203 00:13:05.775 --> 00:13:06.496 but it can help. 204 00:13:06.876 --> 00:13:07.956 And here the garden is quite... 205 00:13:08.276 --> 00:13:23.761 going to be quite substantial because it's going to be 7 000 square meters of no-dig garden which is a big uh twice the size of what we were running in malden and then the the bigger landscape uh yeah just asks 206 00:13:23.881 --> 00:13:34.484 for huge investment of course in um in planting and in um in time but there you also have sort of layers so you have like 207 00:13:35.192 --> 00:13:37.514 a break-even point for berries. 208 00:13:37.514 --> 00:13:39.215 So this might be three, 209 00:13:39.295 --> 00:13:39.955 four years. 210 00:13:39.955 --> 00:13:40.915 Then you have fruit trees, 211 00:13:40.956 --> 00:13:41.716 which is perhaps six, 212 00:13:41.816 --> 00:13:42.516 seven years. 213 00:13:43.077 --> 00:13:47.779 And then you have your nuts that might only come around seriously from nine years. 214 00:13:47.819 --> 00:13:50.721 So you have this build-up plan in which you can, 215 00:13:51.602 --> 00:13:51.862 you know, 216 00:13:52.082 --> 00:13:54.263 financially bridge. 217 00:13:54.503 --> 00:13:55.024 And thankfully, 218 00:13:55.024 --> 00:13:56.985 we have a campsite which can help to, 219 00:13:57.165 --> 00:13:57.405 you know, 220 00:13:57.425 --> 00:13:58.446 create some extra revenues. 221 00:13:58.826 --> 00:13:59.366 We can also, 222 00:14:00.327 --> 00:14:02.288 because we are still a place where people come. 223 00:14:04.081 --> 00:14:06.583 to learn about regeneration and also what they can do themselves. 224 00:14:06.623 --> 00:14:08.565 We can also make that part of it. 225 00:14:08.565 --> 00:14:09.886 So we make this beautiful, 226 00:14:10.887 --> 00:14:14.570 sort of holistic plan where we can farm, 227 00:14:15.310 --> 00:14:20.234 you can connect to yourself in this place, 228 00:14:20.234 --> 00:14:21.075 to regeneration, 229 00:14:21.836 --> 00:14:23.717 and you can stay. 230 00:14:24.778 --> 00:14:26.139 You can stay to let us sink in, 231 00:14:26.680 --> 00:14:28.641 to be our guest or to eat with us, 232 00:14:28.741 --> 00:14:31.504 because the eating part was always something we were missing. 233 00:14:32.104 --> 00:14:47.092 and for the farming explicitly we developed also because we really wanted Dan to be part of our team so we developed four business lines so we have the the no-dig garden then we have an agroforestry system it's actually gonna be 234 00:14:47.172 --> 00:14:55.256 around 40 kilometers of berries fruit trees and nuts and there you yeah you basically look in 235 00:14:56.376 --> 00:14:57.257 landscape-wise, 236 00:14:57.317 --> 00:14:59.658 what makes sense design-wise in a place like this. 237 00:14:59.658 --> 00:15:01.539 So that is the historical landscape, 238 00:15:01.539 --> 00:15:02.420 the cultural landscape, 239 00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:07.502 but also just walking around in your biosphere, 240 00:15:07.562 --> 00:15:08.143 in your region, 241 00:15:08.203 --> 00:15:10.064 you can figure out what works and what doesn't work. 242 00:15:10.764 --> 00:15:11.525 So for example, 243 00:15:11.525 --> 00:15:12.445 the previous farm, 244 00:15:13.026 --> 00:15:16.748 we were really focusing on chestnuts because it made a lot of sense. 245 00:15:16.748 --> 00:15:19.149 We had this really sandy soil, 246 00:15:19.369 --> 00:15:20.570 very dry place. 247 00:15:21.090 --> 00:15:22.191 Chestnuts were doing amazing. 248 00:15:22.751 --> 00:15:23.051 Here, 249 00:15:23.732 --> 00:15:24.192 it's too wet. 250 00:15:24.792 --> 00:15:26.353 So we're not going to grow a lot of chestnuts. 251 00:15:26.453 --> 00:15:27.895 We're going to grow some because we love them, 252 00:15:27.915 --> 00:15:31.598 but it's not going to be prime tree business. 253 00:15:32.619 --> 00:15:36.862 So here we're going to focus on soft fruits. 254 00:15:37.643 --> 00:15:39.965 We're going to focus on cherries and on plums. 255 00:15:40.265 --> 00:15:41.646 And then in the end, 256 00:15:41.646 --> 00:15:45.709 we will plant over 2,000 or 200 varieties of trees. 257 00:15:46.290 --> 00:15:49.012 So it will be a lot of diversity in this place. 258 00:15:49.833 --> 00:15:53.356 But those will be like two main things we would love to sell also because... 259 00:15:55.761 --> 00:15:59.582 Everybody says that you cannot grow cherries without poison. 260 00:16:00.563 --> 00:16:00.723 Yeah, 261 00:16:00.863 --> 00:16:03.144 and you want to prove otherwise? 262 00:16:04.265 --> 00:16:07.406 I think it's ridiculous that that's the case. 263 00:16:07.566 --> 00:16:18.211 So what we're going to try is to make actually sort of the opposite of a usual... 264 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:37.074 fruit production farm so instead of the monocultural trees where you have one kind of fruit that you're specializing in and you know you have to fight a lot of plagues we're going to actually do exactly the opposite we're going to go for a radical diversity in 265 00:16:37.134 --> 00:16:48.444 everything so our chickens are a mixed flock of chickens that are laying properly but eventually we just want to sort of naturally select sort of a outside chicken that is sort of this this crazy 266 00:16:49.428 --> 00:17:04.896 adapted to this place chicken tough strong outside chicken and the same goes for the trees we're just going to plant so many different varieties of trees and we're just going to select what actually works and what doesn't work and because we have the luxury 267 00:17:04.956 --> 00:17:18.664 of planting over 40 kilometers you can over plant and then just see what works and then the i think the beauty of it is that you can market that diversity because we're gonna be able to sell 268 00:17:19.424 --> 00:17:39.392 this little baskets of plums in which you can have plums that are all unique because all these trees are unique trees so you can have like a taste experience like every plum you you'll try is different different chocolates for it every year it's like bonbons it's like different colors different tastes different taste 269 00:17:39.412 --> 00:17:48.896 experience and that's such a different way of thinking about fruits yeah um and of course we also gonna need to process a lot because with 270 00:17:49.036 --> 00:17:50.977 that amount of fruit you have to process a lot. 271 00:17:51.998 --> 00:17:57.642 So we're already thinking about how we can turn that into really nice ice cream, 272 00:17:57.882 --> 00:18:04.067 how we can process it into jams that we can put in a mid-size shop. 273 00:18:04.167 --> 00:18:10.231 So we still have some time, 274 00:18:10.671 --> 00:18:10.992 thankfully, 275 00:18:10.992 --> 00:18:16.956 to figure out the whole processing part because it's quite challenging on the mid-scale and that's what a lot of farmers are experiencing. 276 00:18:17.612 --> 00:18:21.796 But also a lot of other pioneering farmers, 277 00:18:21.876 --> 00:18:24.038 landland farmers are also planting trees. 278 00:18:24.098 --> 00:18:27.241 So there's also more and more incentive to, 279 00:18:29.283 --> 00:18:32.285 as a community starts searching for options to process, 280 00:18:32.426 --> 00:18:32.906 to sell, 281 00:18:33.386 --> 00:18:35.588 which is great because I think that's what we should do. 282 00:18:37.350 --> 00:18:38.831 And yeah, 283 00:18:38.831 --> 00:18:40.833 so the market definitely plays a role. 284 00:18:42.795 --> 00:18:43.676 What grows here? 285 00:18:44.116 --> 00:18:47.078 It should be the start of any conversation. 286 00:18:47.739 --> 00:18:49.040 And so that's the fruit. 287 00:18:49.080 --> 00:18:51.221 And we're going to have next to the fruits, 288 00:18:51.301 --> 00:18:51.842 the garden. 289 00:18:52.322 --> 00:18:59.587 We have a small herd of animals that is more supportive and not really such a strong business in itself. 290 00:18:59.687 --> 00:19:01.629 So we're going to have probably some cows, 291 00:19:02.149 --> 00:19:03.410 but very occasionally some meat, 292 00:19:03.430 --> 00:19:07.453 but it's more to enhance the whole system, 293 00:19:07.533 --> 00:19:08.013 you could say. 294 00:19:08.774 --> 00:19:12.036 And what we really want to do and what we're trying to do is to make sure 295 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:16.524 Why we're also so happy that Dan is on board is the tree nursery. 296 00:19:16.624 --> 00:19:18.105 So we want to start a tree nursery. 297 00:19:19.126 --> 00:19:23.549 But also a very different kind of thinking about how to grow and sell trees. 298 00:19:23.569 --> 00:19:27.092 So instead of selling these big trees with this cut out root, 299 00:19:27.172 --> 00:19:28.253 which usually happens. 300 00:19:29.094 --> 00:19:30.815 Which is very bad for a tree in a way, 301 00:19:30.956 --> 00:19:32.136 to replant trees like that. 302 00:19:33.297 --> 00:19:34.959 We want to grow them in air boom boxes. 303 00:19:35.719 --> 00:19:39.963 So these are sort of like these simple wooden boxes in which you have an air layer. 304 00:19:41.632 --> 00:19:56.678 at the bottom of the box and then soil and compost in the top and then you grow trees from seeds so you also can start growing a lot of diversity in trees and you can also grow 305 00:19:56.838 --> 00:20:09.884 certified seeds that are used for example for nature restoration projects but you can also for companies that want to you know compensate their co2 and get actually indigenous trees or 306 00:20:10.789 --> 00:20:18.420 fruit production because we want to grow all these beautiful varieties for agroforestry systems that are more and more being sold. 307 00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:22.347 So that whole range of trees we want to grow in air prune boxes, 308 00:20:22.968 --> 00:20:24.230 which is actually a very simple... 309 00:20:25.150 --> 00:20:25.410 thing. 310 00:20:26.391 --> 00:20:32.976 But it's just quite fun that something simple could be so different than what we're used to. 311 00:20:32.996 --> 00:20:35.418 But it's just a box with an air layer. 312 00:20:36.399 --> 00:20:37.440 The tree grows. 313 00:20:37.820 --> 00:20:38.341 It hits. 314 00:20:38.541 --> 00:20:39.362 The first thing it does, 315 00:20:39.402 --> 00:20:40.522 it makes its taproot. 316 00:20:40.663 --> 00:20:41.383 It hits the air. 317 00:20:41.904 --> 00:20:43.105 And once it hits the air, 318 00:20:43.865 --> 00:20:48.209 it stops investing in the taproot and instead goes for the lateral roots. 319 00:20:49.209 --> 00:20:54.354 So you get this very strong little tree that in the first year can usually already be... 320 00:20:54.878 --> 00:21:10.625 like i don't know 30 40 centimeters and as you can very easily sell as bare root seedlings and that can grow very strong somewhere else and then you can bundle them and and then we can also sell um 321 00:21:10.925 --> 00:21:22.970 a little bit in the mid-range so now you see either you buy very small number of trees as um you know a private buyer or when they do huge landscape restoration projects it's only from 322 00:21:23.490 --> 00:21:23.890 I don't know, 323 00:21:23.910 --> 00:21:25.151 100,000 or whatever, 324 00:21:25.231 --> 00:21:26.632 and we can be in the mid-scale. 325 00:21:27.052 --> 00:21:32.735 If there's people listening to this who would like to reconnect to food system, 326 00:21:32.755 --> 00:21:34.136 to farmers in their area, 327 00:21:34.336 --> 00:21:36.277 what's the best way to go about this? 328 00:21:36.838 --> 00:21:36.978 Oh, 329 00:21:37.018 --> 00:21:38.058 yeah. 330 00:21:38.058 --> 00:21:38.218 I mean, 331 00:21:38.459 --> 00:21:40.940 there's so many beautiful things you can look up to. 332 00:21:41.060 --> 00:21:41.300 I mean, 333 00:21:41.560 --> 00:21:41.861 you can, 334 00:21:42.841 --> 00:21:42.961 well, 335 00:21:43.021 --> 00:21:44.002 at aadadotfarm, 336 00:21:44.042 --> 00:21:46.423 there's a really nice overview of European farms, 337 00:21:46.543 --> 00:21:49.545 and you can look up if there's any farm in your neighborhoods. 338 00:21:50.666 --> 00:21:51.186 Perhaps you can... 339 00:21:51.566 --> 00:21:52.846 and just check out their websites. 340 00:21:52.886 --> 00:21:55.567 Perhaps you can go for a farm tour or perhaps you can do a course. 341 00:21:55.587 --> 00:21:55.967 Perhaps you, 342 00:21:56.587 --> 00:21:56.947 I don't know, 343 00:21:57.128 --> 00:21:58.568 do some voluntary work at the farm. 344 00:21:58.688 --> 00:22:00.228 Perhaps you can become an apprentice. 345 00:22:00.248 --> 00:22:01.409 Perhaps you can even work there. 346 00:22:01.509 --> 00:22:01.789 I mean, 347 00:22:02.289 --> 00:22:03.349 lots of different options. 348 00:22:04.890 --> 00:22:05.410 In the Netherlands, 349 00:22:05.410 --> 00:22:07.130 we also have a very beautiful platform. 350 00:22:07.250 --> 00:22:12.872 We are the regeneration that now gives sort of an overview of the whole regenerative movement in the Netherlands. 351 00:22:13.092 --> 00:22:14.352 So you can just, 352 00:22:14.512 --> 00:22:17.153 if anything of that rings with you, 353 00:22:17.173 --> 00:22:18.853 you can just look at this beautiful, 354 00:22:19.914 --> 00:22:20.054 yeah, 355 00:22:20.294 --> 00:22:20.814 almost like a... 356 00:22:20.874 --> 00:22:35.983 calendar of beautiful people and initiatives that's happening and it's also on the map so you can also check out if anything is in your proximity and i would really advise just to see if you can get your food from a place nearby that makes you happy and 357 00:22:36.103 --> 00:22:46.610 and fat in also other ways you know and it's um and that's also the beauty of it if you talk about soil health it's also our health right it's the reciprocity so if you can find a place 358 00:22:47.842 --> 00:22:49.303 where the soil is getting healthier, 359 00:22:49.363 --> 00:22:52.663 you're also regenerating yourself by literally eating that, 360 00:22:53.004 --> 00:22:55.984 because that also translates into nutrients in your food, 361 00:22:56.064 --> 00:22:56.705 in yourself. 362 00:22:56.845 --> 00:22:58.965 So yeah, 363 00:22:59.005 --> 00:23:04.827 we definitely check out if there's options for buying that kind of food and nourishing yourself with it. 364 00:23:05.607 --> 00:23:07.608 So thank you so much for giving me the time. 365 00:23:07.908 --> 00:23:08.668 It's the month of May. 366 00:23:08.748 --> 00:23:09.328 You're super, 367 00:23:09.388 --> 00:23:14.249 super busy with the farm and you took these almost two hours that we spent talking right now. 368 00:23:14.269 --> 00:23:14.809 And I really, 369 00:23:14.869 --> 00:23:15.770 really appreciate that. 370 00:23:16.270 --> 00:23:16.770 And I hope that... 371 00:23:16.910 --> 00:23:21.614 the people listening will have gotten a lot of amazing wisdom from that conversation. 372 00:23:21.654 --> 00:23:22.675 So thank you so much. 373 00:23:22.755 --> 00:23:22.875 Yeah, 374 00:23:22.915 --> 00:23:23.856 thanks for being here. 375 00:23:24.597 --> 00:23:29.561 And it was really nice to have this conversation with you underneath our beautiful monumental beech tree.