WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.448 --> 00:00:03.491 I was surrounded by people who told me I would fail and I couldn't, 2 00:00:03.571 --> 00:00:04.774 I wouldn't be able to do it. 3 00:00:05.532 --> 00:00:08.434 And by taking one step at a time, 4 00:00:08.957 --> 00:00:10.161 change happens. 5 00:00:10.496 --> 00:00:14.762 You've got to make so many mistakes before you find the system that works. 6 00:00:14.965 --> 00:00:22.317 A dirty secret around the cap is that even if it's obviously supported food production, 7 00:00:23.332 --> 00:00:26.270 it has driven people out of farming. 8 00:00:28.052 --> 00:00:28.813 11 years ago, 9 00:00:29.293 --> 00:00:31.436 Ariane decided to move from the United States, 10 00:00:31.536 --> 00:00:32.276 where she grew up, 11 00:00:32.776 --> 00:00:34.998 to take over the family farm in Tuscany. 12 00:00:36.299 --> 00:00:40.948 She arrived there with a strong held belief that organic farming was the way forward. 13 00:00:41.784 --> 00:00:42.166 However, 14 00:00:42.690 --> 00:00:45.604 no one else around the farm supported that vision and in fact, 15 00:00:46.151 --> 00:00:46.729 most people, 16 00:00:46.916 --> 00:00:48.854 including the farm manager at the time, 17 00:00:49.213 --> 00:00:50.729 were strongly opposed to the idea. 18 00:00:51.416 --> 00:00:54.385 But she held strong and through tough times and challenges, 19 00:00:54.854 --> 00:00:56.823 she eventually emerged as one of the top 20 00:00:57.184 --> 00:01:00.408 Regenerative organic pioneers in the whole of Europe. 21 00:01:01.830 --> 00:01:07.154 This episode has three key chapters and I've decided to separate it in three parts. 22 00:01:07.873 --> 00:01:13.076 You're listening to part one where we meet Ariane and talk about her and her farm transition journey. 23 00:01:14.397 --> 00:01:22.006 In part two we visit one of her rice fields and she tells us everything about her beautiful complex regenerative system. 24 00:01:22.784 --> 00:01:23.304 And finally, 25 00:01:23.464 --> 00:01:24.244 in part three, 26 00:01:24.624 --> 00:01:26.903 we talk about farm policy and the CAP, 27 00:01:27.126 --> 00:01:28.665 the Common Agriculture Policy. 28 00:01:29.224 --> 00:01:29.747 Because you see, 29 00:01:30.286 --> 00:01:31.470 before becoming a farmer, 30 00:01:31.649 --> 00:01:34.610 Ariane was working in farm policy back in the US. 31 00:01:35.063 --> 00:01:35.766 And therefore, 32 00:01:35.790 --> 00:01:42.282 she gives us this unique perspective of someone who has both farming experience and the farm policy knowledge. 33 00:01:43.595 --> 00:01:46.454 This episode was made in partnership with Soil Capital. 34 00:01:47.063 --> 00:01:47.735 I am your host, 35 00:01:47.954 --> 00:01:48.470 Raphael, 36 00:01:49.048 --> 00:01:50.673 and this is the Deep Seed Podcast. 37 00:01:59.209 --> 00:02:04.170 Thank you so much for welcoming me here on this beautiful farm on this beautiful sunny day of July. 38 00:02:05.170 --> 00:02:08.397 It is July so I bet you must be very busy on the farm, 39 00:02:09.053 --> 00:02:09.256 right? 40 00:02:09.584 --> 00:02:10.100 Hi Raphael, 41 00:02:10.116 --> 00:02:11.303 it's wonderful to have you. 42 00:02:11.444 --> 00:02:12.975 Welcome to Tenuta San Carlo. 43 00:02:13.428 --> 00:02:14.756 We are very busy. 44 00:02:15.069 --> 00:02:17.303 It is July so we're in the middle of our... 45 00:02:17.728 --> 00:02:32.823 grain harvests right now and my farm crew is out in the rice fields because they're a peak kind of vegetative growth for rice and then we also have a lot of guests coming through our agritourism these days so it's a it's a busy time of year. 46 00:02:33.362 --> 00:02:35.284 Yeah well thank you so much for taking the time. 47 00:02:36.581 --> 00:02:39.425 How how's it going actually how has this year been so far? 48 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:44.300 Yeah every year brings with it its challenges, 49 00:02:44.769 --> 00:02:46.315 especially in... 50 00:02:47.389 --> 00:02:53.356 as climate change kind of becomes a bigger impact and bigger factor in what we do. 51 00:02:53.836 --> 00:02:55.418 And so on the one hand, 52 00:02:55.879 --> 00:03:09.707 things have been going well because I have a really good team of people here who's working with the farm and it's great to have finally a full team that's fully aligned with the values and the goals of what I'm trying to do here. 53 00:03:10.207 --> 00:03:11.051 On the other side, 54 00:03:11.129 --> 00:03:15.520 we are dealing with challenging weather situations and 55 00:03:16.012 --> 00:03:18.514 We had an extremely wet 56 00:03:18.975 --> 00:03:22.479 May, which is when we normally plant rice. 57 00:03:22.920 --> 00:03:26.963 And so the field prep that goes into about, 58 00:03:27.182 --> 00:03:29.323 usually that takes 10 weeks for us, 59 00:03:29.424 --> 00:03:30.846 was smushed into five. 60 00:03:31.924 --> 00:03:34.307 So that was a very intense time. 61 00:03:35.744 --> 00:03:36.088 Why is that? 62 00:03:36.135 --> 00:03:38.557 Is it because you can't go onto the fields with the machinery? 63 00:03:38.635 --> 00:03:39.916 What's the reason for that? 64 00:03:40.119 --> 00:03:40.229 Yeah, 65 00:03:40.635 --> 00:03:42.823 well there are a few different reasons for that. 66 00:03:44.041 --> 00:03:45.244 The first is that 67 00:03:45.724 --> 00:03:50.126 We rely for our irrigation water on the river water. 68 00:03:50.826 --> 00:03:57.744 And the infrastructure that we have right now for water distribution on the farm is all in underground tubes. 69 00:03:58.744 --> 00:04:00.267 And so if it rains a lot, 70 00:04:01.908 --> 00:04:04.595 the water gets murky and the tubes get full, 71 00:04:04.845 --> 00:04:07.595 and we need water to start rice production. 72 00:04:08.470 --> 00:04:13.064 So we're looking at other ways of dealing with the beginning of the... 73 00:04:14.136 --> 00:04:14.416 you know, 74 00:04:14.516 --> 00:04:18.060 of rice planting to deal with that. 75 00:04:18.318 --> 00:04:25.389 And it just means that it's raining and so you can't do field work essentially and the ground's really wet. 76 00:04:25.810 --> 00:04:38.826 I have started to implement certain practices that help us manage that climate risk but actually because it rained way more than it usually does last October, 77 00:04:39.295 --> 00:04:42.217 those practices weren't available to me this season. 78 00:04:43.107 --> 00:04:43.279 Okay. 79 00:04:44.718 --> 00:04:47.384 Could you maybe start by introducing yourself a little bit? 80 00:04:48.024 --> 00:04:53.052 Tell us where we are and a little bit about the history of that place and what connects you to this place. 81 00:04:53.309 --> 00:04:53.794 Absolutely. 82 00:04:54.231 --> 00:04:56.942 My name is Ariane and we're in Tenuta San Carlo, 83 00:04:57.419 --> 00:04:59.770 which is right along the southern coast. 84 00:05:00.140 --> 00:05:00.860 of Tuscany. 85 00:05:01.340 --> 00:05:01.920 So we're our, 86 00:05:01.960 --> 00:05:04.602 to place you in a landscape which is where how I usually start, 87 00:05:04.883 --> 00:05:08.766 we are two hours north of Rome and two hours south of Florence along the coast. 88 00:05:09.281 --> 00:05:09.445 Right, 89 00:05:09.539 --> 00:05:13.641 obviously you hear that I speak English with an American accent. 90 00:05:14.883 --> 00:05:16.781 I was born and raised in the U.S. 91 00:05:17.391 --> 00:05:18.906 because my mother is American, 92 00:05:19.531 --> 00:05:22.922 but this land is my family's land on my father's side. 93 00:05:24.256 --> 00:05:25.017 This whole area, 94 00:05:25.117 --> 00:05:27.480 and we'll get into it throughout our conversation today, 95 00:05:28.359 --> 00:05:29.863 was a former marshland. 96 00:05:31.183 --> 00:05:36.289 And that identification as a former marshland really still guides what we do here. 97 00:05:37.367 --> 00:05:37.828 And in the 98 00:05:38.992 --> 00:05:41.969 1930s, Mussolini drained the marshlands here. 99 00:05:43.234 --> 00:05:47.031 He had big landscape-level engineering projects throughout Italy, 100 00:05:47.500 --> 00:05:51.578 and what happened here was that an area that was undeveloped and 101 00:05:52.276 --> 00:05:55.539 unavailable for cultivation and for agricultural purposes, 102 00:05:55.619 --> 00:05:57.863 but for economic purposes generally, 103 00:05:58.441 --> 00:05:59.863 was drained. 104 00:06:01.062 --> 00:06:03.125 And my great-grandfather, 105 00:06:03.609 --> 00:06:05.687 who lived in northern Italy, 106 00:06:07.453 --> 00:06:10.469 with the availability of arable land, 107 00:06:10.812 --> 00:06:14.156 came down and bought this land in 1936. 108 00:06:15.260 --> 00:06:16.081 As a matter of fact, 109 00:06:16.141 --> 00:06:18.964 if you drive around this area, 110 00:06:19.046 --> 00:06:22.366 you'll still find families that have roots in northern Italy. 111 00:06:24.171 --> 00:06:28.210 And so he bought the land in 1936. 112 00:06:28.211 --> 00:06:30.952 World War II happened shortly thereafter. 113 00:06:31.171 --> 00:06:33.280 And so the large development, 114 00:06:33.436 --> 00:06:33.686 you know, 115 00:06:33.702 --> 00:06:38.889 the real kind of identification of this land as a farm occurred in the Second World War, 116 00:06:39.124 --> 00:06:39.499 post, 117 00:06:39.983 --> 00:06:42.171 after the Second World War with my grandparents. 118 00:06:42.749 --> 00:06:42.952 Right. 119 00:06:43.014 --> 00:06:43.421 So they... 120 00:06:44.172 --> 00:06:45.434 They built buildings, 121 00:06:45.494 --> 00:06:47.174 they planted forests, 122 00:06:47.334 --> 00:06:49.916 they started growing grains. 123 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:52.940 And in the 1960s, 124 00:06:53.541 --> 00:06:55.784 they looked around this landscape and they said, 125 00:06:55.785 --> 00:06:56.104 you know, 126 00:06:56.346 --> 00:07:00.745 there are characteristics of this landscape that we think might be suitable for rice production. 127 00:07:01.307 --> 00:07:02.573 Because we're in Tuscany, 128 00:07:03.245 --> 00:07:07.838 but if you think about rice-producing areas, 129 00:07:07.901 --> 00:07:09.104 and if you think about Tuscany, 130 00:07:09.198 --> 00:07:11.416 those two things don't usually go together. 131 00:07:11.912 --> 00:07:12.132 Right, 132 00:07:12.493 --> 00:07:17.077 Tuscany is usually hills with olive trees and vineyards. 133 00:07:17.858 --> 00:07:21.920 But they still had contacts up in northern Italy where they do grow rice. 134 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:29.303 And they started growing rice here because the soils are good for rice production. 135 00:07:29.304 --> 00:07:31.506 If you think about what a marshland is, 136 00:07:32.131 --> 00:07:34.959 it's an area that is poorly drained, 137 00:07:35.334 --> 00:07:35.959 that is flat, 138 00:07:36.038 --> 00:07:36.959 that holds water, 139 00:07:37.194 --> 00:07:41.256 and that has very heavy soils. 140 00:07:41.644 --> 00:07:48.130 And those are the characteristics that rice plants also need for successful production. 141 00:07:48.169 --> 00:07:48.572 And so in the 142 00:07:49.173 --> 00:07:51.111 1960s they started growing rice, 143 00:07:51.712 --> 00:07:53.697 along with many other things obviously. 144 00:07:54.619 --> 00:07:57.220 And then my father managed the farm for a while, 145 00:07:57.298 --> 00:07:59.423 but he really went to the U.S. 146 00:08:00.205 --> 00:08:02.642 to study and met my mother, 147 00:08:02.830 --> 00:08:04.767 and my sister and I were born and raised there. 148 00:08:05.564 --> 00:08:10.830 And we used to come to the farm here to see my grandparents when we were younger. 149 00:08:11.872 --> 00:08:12.912 during the summertime, 150 00:08:13.133 --> 00:08:14.872 but until recently, 151 00:08:15.073 --> 00:08:15.952 I didn't know, 152 00:08:16.593 --> 00:08:18.495 I didn't think I was going to come here. 153 00:08:19.952 --> 00:08:21.116 I had developed, 154 00:08:21.132 --> 00:08:23.593 started to develop a career in the U.S. 155 00:08:23.655 --> 00:08:25.218 I was working in sustainable, 156 00:08:25.257 --> 00:08:25.874 at that time, 157 00:08:26.593 --> 00:08:28.093 organic agriculture policy. 158 00:08:28.796 --> 00:08:29.843 At the federal level, 159 00:08:29.983 --> 00:08:33.014 I was working in sustainable agriculture at the time, 160 00:08:33.702 --> 00:08:35.452 and at a certain point, 161 00:08:35.952 --> 00:08:38.936 my sister and I had to decide whether we were going to 162 00:08:40.120 --> 00:08:46.986 keep the land and give it a future or pass the land or sell the land onto somebody else who could steward it, 163 00:08:47.529 --> 00:08:47.747 right? 164 00:08:47.826 --> 00:08:51.552 Because between when we were little and we were adults, 165 00:08:51.935 --> 00:08:56.037 my father passed away when we were very young and my mother was American, 166 00:08:56.951 --> 00:09:03.669 decided to keep the land but rent it out essentially and raise us in the U.S. 167 00:09:04.810 --> 00:09:06.513 And so I came here, 168 00:09:07.622 --> 00:09:07.935 I guess, 169 00:09:08.060 --> 00:09:08.966 11 years ago. 170 00:09:10.996 --> 00:09:13.476 unclear whether I was going to be staying six months, 171 00:09:14.058 --> 00:09:14.638 a year, 172 00:09:16.099 --> 00:09:18.599 and 11 years later I'm still here. 173 00:09:20.220 --> 00:09:26.618 I'm still here and so that's the story of my family on this land. 174 00:09:29.032 --> 00:09:34.704 Okay sweet and if we focus on the farming aspect a little bit, 175 00:09:35.235 --> 00:09:39.142 I suppose in the 60s when they started growing rice here 176 00:09:40.068 --> 00:09:45.173 It was a time where farmers were very much incentivized and pushed towards intensive, 177 00:09:45.212 --> 00:09:46.454 conventional agriculture. 178 00:09:46.513 --> 00:09:49.560 So I assume that happened to some extent here, 179 00:09:49.575 --> 00:09:49.802 right? 180 00:09:49.981 --> 00:09:50.497 Absolutely. 181 00:09:51.981 --> 00:09:55.817 But today you're organic and you also practice regenerative agriculture, 182 00:09:56.005 --> 00:09:56.599 agroecology. 183 00:09:57.927 --> 00:09:59.989 So I'm curious to know how that transition... 184 00:10:00.140 --> 00:10:00.440 happened, 185 00:10:00.700 --> 00:10:04.380 what was the starting point and the process of transitioning to that? 186 00:10:04.599 --> 00:10:05.103 Absolutely. 187 00:10:05.880 --> 00:10:10.779 So a little bit about my background before I came to the farm. 188 00:10:10.904 --> 00:10:12.701 I was born and raised in New York City. 189 00:10:14.419 --> 00:10:14.943 I am. 190 00:10:15.662 --> 00:10:17.685 But when I was 17, 191 00:10:17.826 --> 00:10:20.857 I went to work on a farm in Maine, 192 00:10:21.107 --> 00:10:25.013 which is in the northeastern part of the United States on the border with Canada. 193 00:10:25.622 --> 00:10:26.279 And from there... 194 00:10:26.608 --> 00:10:30.012 I worked with a farmer who really taught me my land ethic, 195 00:10:30.532 --> 00:10:32.973 and I started to understand that I didn't need to, 196 00:10:32.974 --> 00:10:33.473 you know, 197 00:10:33.497 --> 00:10:38.919 my career paths didn't necessarily need to be a doctor or a businesswoman or a lawyer, 198 00:10:39.098 --> 00:10:51.294 that I could actually pursue what was at that time an interest in environmental studies and the natural world and look at it through and work at it through the lens of food production. 199 00:10:51.904 --> 00:10:59.632 And so I learned the principles of the land ethic that I still practice today. 200 00:11:00.195 --> 00:11:05.499 And that was really the moment that I started on the path of sustainable agriculture. 201 00:11:05.601 --> 00:11:06.781 So I'm 42. 202 00:11:07.140 --> 00:11:08.554 That was when I was 17. 203 00:11:09.116 --> 00:11:14.273 The terminology was around sustainability and not around regenerative agriculture at the time, 204 00:11:14.663 --> 00:11:21.273 but the core concepts of producing in sync with natural cycles. 205 00:11:21.756 --> 00:11:32.205 Improving soil quality and biodiversity and working with nature instead of against it were really part of my early imprinting and farming experiences. 206 00:11:32.869 --> 00:11:33.244 From there, 207 00:11:33.346 --> 00:11:38.377 I really started to do some internships on farms in the U.S. 208 00:11:38.909 --> 00:11:40.752 I studied environmental studies. 209 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:43.330 And then right before I came, 210 00:11:43.471 --> 00:11:49.284 I was involved in policy work at the national level because policy is such an important part of. 211 00:11:49.980 --> 00:11:53.906 the type of food systems and food production systems that we have at the time, 212 00:11:54.023 --> 00:11:54.504 right now, 213 00:11:54.703 --> 00:11:55.343 or generally, 214 00:11:55.367 --> 00:11:56.488 is such an important factor. 215 00:11:57.429 --> 00:12:00.187 The farm was conventional, 216 00:12:00.289 --> 00:12:02.070 was a conventional commodity farm, 217 00:12:02.531 --> 00:12:02.711 right? 218 00:12:02.734 --> 00:12:05.336 The primary crops were rice and wheat, 219 00:12:06.101 --> 00:12:08.742 and they were grown conventionally, 220 00:12:09.351 --> 00:12:09.804 both by, 221 00:12:10.164 --> 00:12:11.039 during my grandparents' 222 00:12:11.086 --> 00:12:12.257 time and my father's time, 223 00:12:12.289 --> 00:12:12.742 but also... 224 00:12:13.708 --> 00:12:15.149 In the time after my father's death, 225 00:12:15.189 --> 00:12:19.589 there was a farm manager that did manage some of the land. 226 00:12:20.108 --> 00:12:20.870 All conventional. 227 00:12:20.890 --> 00:12:22.089 And so when I came here, 228 00:12:24.792 --> 00:12:27.948 those were the two main crops and it was all conventional. 229 00:12:28.534 --> 00:12:34.237 My values obviously do not align with conventional farming. 230 00:12:34.269 --> 00:12:38.128 And so one of the first things I did, 231 00:12:38.675 --> 00:12:41.987 but it leads then to the kind of bigger mission of the farm, 232 00:12:42.336 --> 00:12:48.041 was to start to apply the theory that I learned and the policies, 233 00:12:48.201 --> 00:12:48.443 you know, 234 00:12:48.701 --> 00:12:51.522 concepts that I was interested in at a certain scale. 235 00:12:51.662 --> 00:12:54.584 Because we're a 480 hectare farm, 236 00:12:54.990 --> 00:12:56.147 so not small, 237 00:12:56.412 --> 00:12:57.350 not super large, 238 00:12:57.475 --> 00:12:58.928 but we are a mid-scale farm, 239 00:13:00.287 --> 00:13:00.740 and I do, 240 00:13:00.756 --> 00:13:03.350 you know, 241 00:13:03.725 --> 00:13:06.193 produce a certain volume of food. 242 00:13:08.022 --> 00:13:08.303 And 243 00:13:08.520 --> 00:13:09.101 I started, 244 00:13:09.141 --> 00:13:12.886 the first step was the transition to organic agriculture. 245 00:13:14.027 --> 00:13:14.226 Now 246 00:13:15.285 --> 00:13:20.394 I focused on rice also because it's a crop that is not, 247 00:13:20.613 --> 00:13:23.675 well there's nothing easy about organic agriculture in any crop. 248 00:13:25.058 --> 00:13:28.964 When I started looking into how to transition the farm, 249 00:13:28.996 --> 00:13:37.043 that first step right to organic agriculture before you start some of the more we call innovative or barrier pushing practices, 250 00:13:37.972 --> 00:13:39.392 of regenerative agriculture, 251 00:13:39.913 --> 00:13:41.552 I was met with complete, 252 00:13:42.434 --> 00:13:44.052 I don't know, 253 00:13:44.934 --> 00:13:45.512 obstinance. 254 00:13:47.915 --> 00:13:48.993 I remember there's this funny, 255 00:13:49.251 --> 00:13:50.055 not funny story, 256 00:13:50.157 --> 00:13:53.938 but when I was trying to find marketing partners, 257 00:13:54.235 --> 00:13:54.516 right, 258 00:13:54.688 --> 00:13:58.016 for organic rice and organic grains, 259 00:13:59.204 --> 00:14:00.391 I went to a fair, 260 00:14:01.454 --> 00:14:02.485 an agricultural fair, 261 00:14:02.845 --> 00:14:03.813 and I met with, 262 00:14:03.891 --> 00:14:04.641 at that point, 263 00:14:05.260 --> 00:14:08.023 the head of one of the largest rice millers, 264 00:14:08.384 --> 00:14:09.823 organic rice millers in Italy. 265 00:14:10.245 --> 00:14:13.210 And he told me directly and straightforwardly, 266 00:14:13.351 --> 00:14:14.069 you will fail. 267 00:14:14.491 --> 00:14:16.054 You won't be able to produce. 268 00:14:16.749 --> 00:14:21.023 And you will go into your rice field at night to spray herbicides. 269 00:14:22.023 --> 00:14:27.460 And so there was a little fear around the transition in part because there's not a lot of, 270 00:14:27.648 --> 00:14:32.007 at the time there wasn't a lot of knowledge about the actual practices and how they might work, 271 00:14:32.444 --> 00:14:33.694 let alone how to So... 272 00:14:34.376 --> 00:14:35.697 implement them here, 273 00:14:36.198 --> 00:14:37.259 right on this land. 274 00:14:37.820 --> 00:14:38.720 But fortunately, 275 00:14:38.779 --> 00:14:41.482 I do have an international network of contacts. 276 00:14:41.662 --> 00:14:44.345 I do through the networks I have in the U.S. 277 00:14:44.423 --> 00:14:45.267 and now in Europe. 278 00:14:45.970 --> 00:14:50.095 There are excellent farmers who were willing to share their experiences, 279 00:14:50.228 --> 00:14:51.752 and so I started that transition. 280 00:14:54.142 --> 00:14:57.033 Part of the transition to organic, 281 00:14:57.173 --> 00:14:57.673 and I think, 282 00:14:58.080 --> 00:14:58.314 you know, 283 00:14:58.345 --> 00:14:59.502 any farmer would say this, 284 00:14:59.517 --> 00:14:59.798 is all... 285 00:15:00.028 --> 00:15:02.370 It's not just a practices transition, 286 00:15:03.110 --> 00:15:05.973 it's a mindset transition and a business transition, 287 00:15:08.333 --> 00:15:10.200 and a management transition. 288 00:15:10.700 --> 00:15:12.380 The management part is really, 289 00:15:13.083 --> 00:15:14.684 instead of spraying, 290 00:15:15.161 --> 00:15:15.442 you know, 291 00:15:15.887 --> 00:15:17.372 because there's a problem, 292 00:15:17.872 --> 00:15:22.653 you anticipate what the plants need and you respond and work with your environment. 293 00:15:22.731 --> 00:15:28.997 So you've got to listen closely to and know your land and listen closely to what 294 00:15:29.816 --> 00:15:42.412 the plants and animals are saying to you and how to interpret that and how to then as a farmer work with that and have a conversation with that land and with the plants and with the animals. 295 00:15:44.709 --> 00:15:47.553 It's a business transition because you're finding new markets, 296 00:15:48.053 --> 00:15:48.287 right, 297 00:15:48.334 --> 00:15:56.022 and new partners and trying to identify and communicate new values and it's a mindset transition. 298 00:15:56.068 --> 00:15:57.209 There was a farm manager 299 00:15:57.904 --> 00:15:58.064 Here, 300 00:15:58.084 --> 00:15:58.845 when I arrived, 301 00:15:58.945 --> 00:16:00.306 after three and a half years, 302 00:16:00.966 --> 00:16:07.974 we decided to part ways because he did not believe in the objectives, 303 00:16:08.037 --> 00:16:09.818 the new objectives and mission of the farm. 304 00:16:11.779 --> 00:16:15.787 Just a very quick pause to tell you about the official partner of the Deep Seed podcast, 305 00:16:16.115 --> 00:16:16.724 Soil Capital. 306 00:16:17.787 --> 00:16:27.380 Soil Capital is a company that accelerates the transition to regenerative agriculture by financially rewarding farmers who improve things like soil health and biodiversity. 307 00:16:28.160 --> 00:16:30.722 They're an amazing company and if you'd like to learn more about them, 308 00:16:30.744 --> 00:16:32.865 I will leave a link in the description of this episode. 309 00:16:34.947 --> 00:16:40.716 We're going to visit the farm later on and we'll get a lot deeper into the farming side of things. 310 00:16:41.857 --> 00:16:42.974 But for the time being, 311 00:16:42.975 --> 00:16:46.841 I would love to have a little bit more information about how you transition the farm. 312 00:16:46.872 --> 00:16:50.466 What were the steps to transition a whole system, 313 00:16:50.467 --> 00:16:50.966 a whole farm? 314 00:16:51.779 --> 00:16:52.107 Yeah, 315 00:16:52.247 --> 00:16:55.966 I think that's a really important question also because when we think about, 316 00:16:56.622 --> 00:16:56.888 you know, 317 00:16:57.384 --> 00:16:58.724 Helping farmers, 318 00:16:59.164 --> 00:17:00.265 or helping farmers, 319 00:17:01.244 --> 00:17:01.986 if there are, 320 00:17:02.244 --> 00:17:07.064 if we have goals around wide-scale adoption of more regenerative practices, 321 00:17:07.127 --> 00:17:10.307 that does require a transition for many farmers, 322 00:17:10.705 --> 00:17:10.971 right? 323 00:17:11.424 --> 00:17:17.572 And so thinking about the steps and the actual technical and financial support in different, 324 00:17:17.573 --> 00:17:19.307 at different moments of that process, 325 00:17:19.322 --> 00:17:22.822 I think could help facilitate adoption of practices, 326 00:17:23.353 --> 00:17:23.572 right? 327 00:17:23.697 --> 00:17:25.275 And so one of the... 328 00:17:26.825 --> 00:17:28.827 One of the first steps that I took, 329 00:17:28.907 --> 00:17:34.114 I didn't immediately start the organic certification because 330 00:17:34.489 --> 00:17:38.192 I needed to learn about the land itself. 331 00:17:38.857 --> 00:17:40.638 And you don't do that quickly, 332 00:17:40.857 --> 00:17:42.935 and obviously you don't do that in a year or two. 333 00:17:44.107 --> 00:17:53.325 But I had to go through a couple of farming cycles here because this landscape is so different from the one that I'm used to. 334 00:17:54.036 --> 00:17:56.398 in the northeast of the United States. 335 00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:00.764 Even if I came here on summer vacation as a little girl in the month of July, 336 00:18:01.205 --> 00:18:05.088 I really didn't know the agricultural cycles of this place. 337 00:18:05.205 --> 00:18:08.252 And a Mediterranean climate is very, 338 00:18:08.307 --> 00:18:13.228 very different from my climate of origin, 339 00:18:13.572 --> 00:18:14.338 we could say. 340 00:18:15.041 --> 00:18:23.447 So the first thing is really knowing and observing and understanding your land and the cycles. 341 00:18:23.736 --> 00:18:25.458 the natural cycles around it. 342 00:18:25.477 --> 00:18:26.098 For example, 343 00:18:26.499 --> 00:18:27.399 just a simple thing, 344 00:18:28.059 --> 00:18:32.946 in the northeast of the United States there's nothing growing in January and February, 345 00:18:33.149 --> 00:18:33.383 right? 346 00:18:33.665 --> 00:18:34.188 It's just, 347 00:18:34.383 --> 00:18:35.071 it's cold, 348 00:18:35.204 --> 00:18:35.790 it's winter, 349 00:18:35.930 --> 00:18:36.508 there's not much. 350 00:18:36.805 --> 00:18:40.696 Here in January and February all of our grains are growing, 351 00:18:41.087 --> 00:18:43.055 we're planting legumes, 352 00:18:43.962 --> 00:18:46.774 even if the days are shorter there's a certain, 353 00:18:46.962 --> 00:18:50.055 there's a fair deal of agricultural activity happening, 354 00:18:50.508 --> 00:18:50.743 right? 355 00:18:50.962 --> 00:18:51.243 And 356 00:18:51.596 --> 00:18:53.698 at a time like in July and August, 357 00:18:53.999 --> 00:18:55.059 everything's kind of, 358 00:18:56.399 --> 00:18:58.981 the landscape is quieting down in a sense, 359 00:18:59.224 --> 00:18:59.505 right, 360 00:18:59.747 --> 00:19:02.950 and getting ready for the fall rains. 361 00:19:04.505 --> 00:19:13.833 But then at a certain point you have to have the courage of your convictions and start taking the steps to transition a farm. 362 00:19:14.364 --> 00:19:20.645 And for me that was identifying new markets first so that I'd have some supply chain partners. 363 00:19:21.056 --> 00:19:23.757 that would be willing to, 364 00:19:24.677 --> 00:19:24.936 you know, 365 00:19:25.315 --> 00:19:26.936 start that process with me. 366 00:19:29.034 --> 00:19:33.019 The farm at the time was selling raw commodities, 367 00:19:33.315 --> 00:19:39.112 and I still sell a high percentage of my crop as a raw commodity, 368 00:19:39.347 --> 00:19:39.534 right? 369 00:19:39.581 --> 00:19:41.706 We have our own label and our own brand, 370 00:19:41.722 --> 00:19:47.487 and I started creating products that a consumer can buy, 371 00:19:47.940 --> 00:19:48.144 right, 372 00:19:48.145 --> 00:19:48.909 and that we sell. 373 00:19:49.081 --> 00:19:49.487 but yeah 374 00:19:49.564 --> 00:19:52.971 a good portion of what I do still gets shipped out in trucks, 375 00:19:53.471 --> 00:19:53.793 right? 376 00:19:54.774 --> 00:19:55.555 Two other supply, 377 00:19:55.594 --> 00:19:58.981 two supply chains that where I've created a partnership over time. 378 00:19:59.363 --> 00:19:59.965 And those supply 379 00:20:00.080 --> 00:20:02.322 Chains have to recognize the value, 380 00:20:03.043 --> 00:20:04.043 your added value, 381 00:20:04.086 --> 00:20:05.387 whether it's certified organic, 382 00:20:05.465 --> 00:20:06.828 regenerative agriculture, 383 00:20:07.188 --> 00:20:11.633 somehow the price needs to match. 384 00:20:12.195 --> 00:20:24.281 There's a whole aspect around technical assistance and all of the technical information that you need to be able to make a transition like that. 385 00:20:24.344 --> 00:20:25.000 And so for me, 386 00:20:26.531 --> 00:20:27.922 I started the transition 387 00:20:29.212 --> 00:20:32.892 About a year and a half after I physically arrived here, 388 00:20:33.454 --> 00:20:33.751 right? 389 00:20:34.411 --> 00:20:35.712 And in that year and a half, 390 00:20:35.794 --> 00:20:39.638 in addition to spending a lot of time on the land, 391 00:20:40.138 --> 00:20:45.536 I also spent times off the land and made connections, 392 00:20:46.177 --> 00:20:47.380 as many as possible, 393 00:20:47.755 --> 00:20:50.630 with farmers who had values that were aligned with mine. 394 00:20:51.489 --> 00:20:52.880 Because here locally, 395 00:20:53.193 --> 00:20:53.521 while 396 00:20:54.021 --> 00:20:56.193 I have very good relationships with my neighbors, 397 00:20:56.380 --> 00:20:57.599 obviously they do not. 398 00:20:57.960 --> 00:20:58.461 they were like, 399 00:20:59.461 --> 00:20:59.983 you're crazy, 400 00:21:00.402 --> 00:21:01.344 this is not going to work, 401 00:21:01.543 --> 00:21:01.783 right? 402 00:21:01.824 --> 00:21:05.588 Transitioning this big farm to organic and doing organic rice, 403 00:21:05.647 --> 00:21:07.428 and it just doesn't make sense. 404 00:21:09.693 --> 00:21:11.529 But searching, 405 00:21:11.553 --> 00:21:12.412 you will find, 406 00:21:13.115 --> 00:21:13.397 right? 407 00:21:13.795 --> 00:21:18.154 And there are great networks now of farmers in Europe, 408 00:21:18.483 --> 00:21:19.076 in Italy, 409 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:22.123 and I have contacts in the U.S., 410 00:21:22.170 --> 00:21:23.904 and so that support was really important. 411 00:21:25.108 --> 00:21:27.748 In part because when things don't work, 412 00:21:27.889 --> 00:21:29.668 which is often and always, 413 00:21:30.528 --> 00:21:35.028 you have to either you have to have the experience to think through those problems yourself, 414 00:21:35.629 --> 00:21:40.364 or you have to have people whom you can call to compare notes with. 415 00:21:40.832 --> 00:21:49.098 And I've absolutely found that the farmer to farmer exchange is the most valuable exchange there is. 416 00:21:49.332 --> 00:21:51.473 I've done research with universities. 417 00:21:51.614 --> 00:21:53.114 I've worked with agronomists. 418 00:21:53.644 --> 00:21:54.625 But the people who really, 419 00:21:55.746 --> 00:21:56.046 you know, 420 00:21:57.107 --> 00:22:02.111 the exchange with other farmers is the most valuable knowledge for me. 421 00:22:03.033 --> 00:22:05.377 And so creating those farmer networks was really, 422 00:22:05.494 --> 00:22:06.533 really important. 423 00:22:08.002 --> 00:22:08.337 And then, 424 00:22:09.502 --> 00:22:10.205 as I mentioned, 425 00:22:11.002 --> 00:22:14.048 finding people to work with you who believe in your vision, 426 00:22:14.923 --> 00:22:16.564 that was the hardest part. 427 00:22:18.173 --> 00:22:21.064 It must have been really difficult starting from scratch, 428 00:22:22.267 --> 00:22:22.986 being new to the... 429 00:22:23.524 --> 00:22:24.005 the area, 430 00:22:24.085 --> 00:22:26.367 I mean although you knew this area for a long time, 431 00:22:26.387 --> 00:22:27.486 but moving here, 432 00:22:27.549 --> 00:22:35.752 working the land here and being in an environment where there were very few people actually believing in organic agriculture, 433 00:22:36.260 --> 00:22:38.838 regenerative agriculture was not really a thing yet, 434 00:22:39.533 --> 00:22:45.705 so it must have been tough to stand your ground and become a pioneer really in this space. 435 00:22:46.893 --> 00:22:50.908 Do you feel like the space has changed a lot since and you've managed to really kind of... 436 00:22:51.404 --> 00:22:55.687 create this ecosystem that new farmers now can rely on if they need to? 437 00:22:56.027 --> 00:22:56.168 Yeah, 438 00:22:56.289 --> 00:22:58.769 I think it was challenging. 439 00:23:00.449 --> 00:23:01.855 And sometimes when you look back, 440 00:23:02.058 --> 00:23:04.637 when I look back on those first few years, 441 00:23:07.199 --> 00:23:08.762 I just block them out of my head, 442 00:23:08.996 --> 00:23:09.199 right? 443 00:23:09.262 --> 00:23:11.277 Some of the stories and the challenges, 444 00:23:11.278 --> 00:23:12.949 the day-to-day challenges, 445 00:23:13.043 --> 00:23:20.152 just really the difficulty in changing. 446 00:23:20.788 --> 00:23:21.809 in making change, 447 00:23:22.229 --> 00:23:22.448 right? 448 00:23:22.509 --> 00:23:22.648 Yeah. 449 00:23:23.609 --> 00:23:24.488 But now 450 00:23:25.309 --> 00:23:31.512 I do think that farmers or people who are interested in adopting new techniques, 451 00:23:31.613 --> 00:23:34.113 experimenting with regenerative practices, 452 00:23:35.348 --> 00:23:49.871 there's much greater wealth of information and you have networks throughout Europe of farmers who in different types of production systems and different climates who have really been pioneers themselves. 453 00:23:49.981 --> 00:23:50.121 homes. 454 00:23:50.364 --> 00:23:52.747 and are now connected with each other. 455 00:23:54.028 --> 00:23:59.493 And obviously digital media and all of our digital tools has helped a great deal with that connection. 456 00:24:00.056 --> 00:24:07.126 But also this awareness slowly that if you do ask the right questions, 457 00:24:08.235 --> 00:24:11.907 you will find people who can help you find those answers. 458 00:24:12.266 --> 00:24:12.501 Yeah. 459 00:24:12.532 --> 00:24:12.782 Right? 460 00:24:14.095 --> 00:24:14.829 And not that... 461 00:24:15.244 --> 00:24:18.527 Farming is easy and regenerative agriculture is easy. 462 00:24:19.027 --> 00:24:20.391 Nothing is easy about that. 463 00:24:20.508 --> 00:24:24.891 But there are more resources and networks available now. 464 00:24:25.336 --> 00:24:34.742 And there's more of a general understanding of what we're trying to do in farming is no longer an alternative method of farming, 465 00:24:35.383 --> 00:24:43.008 but it's the way that we have to approach farming systems if we're going to deal with. 466 00:24:43.424 --> 00:24:43.684 you know, 467 00:24:44.105 --> 00:24:45.206 our climate crisis, 468 00:24:45.246 --> 00:24:46.387 our economic crisis, 469 00:24:46.428 --> 00:24:47.469 the social crisis, 470 00:24:47.566 --> 00:24:50.371 everything that's kind of falling apart around us. 471 00:24:50.953 --> 00:24:51.070 Yeah, 472 00:24:51.172 --> 00:24:52.449 absolutely. 473 00:24:52.574 --> 00:24:57.699 We're going to get into all of the amazing things you do here about regenerative agriculture, 474 00:24:57.715 --> 00:24:58.496 about the successes, 475 00:24:58.519 --> 00:24:59.996 but since you mentioned the really hard times, 476 00:25:00.028 --> 00:25:00.749 times at the beginning. 477 00:25:01.690 --> 00:25:03.632 Maybe you could tell us a little bit more about that, 478 00:25:03.712 --> 00:25:08.497 like maybe describe some of the biggest challenges you faced and the hard time that you had. 479 00:25:09.098 --> 00:25:09.419 Yeah, 480 00:25:10.598 --> 00:25:12.942 there were a few really big challenges. 481 00:25:14.278 --> 00:25:24.919 The first was that the farm manager who was here at the time just did not believe that we could do it, 482 00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:28.200 that transitioning to organic made sense. 483 00:25:29.196 --> 00:25:30.857 that it was a valuable thing. 484 00:25:30.997 --> 00:25:32.296 And I think more than anything, 485 00:25:32.318 --> 00:25:35.378 it was hard because at the time, 486 00:25:35.499 --> 00:25:35.738 you know, 487 00:25:36.257 --> 00:25:39.261 conventional commodity markets were failing. 488 00:25:39.262 --> 00:25:39.480 You know, 489 00:25:39.481 --> 00:25:41.198 the prices obviously were low. 490 00:25:42.339 --> 00:25:43.980 European subsidies were changing, 491 00:25:44.042 --> 00:25:46.839 so we were going to be losing a lot of subsidies that had been. 492 00:25:47.245 --> 00:25:47.480 You know, 493 00:25:47.481 --> 00:25:48.902 a whole model was crumbling, 494 00:25:49.323 --> 00:25:49.573 right? 495 00:25:50.042 --> 00:25:52.698 That conventional commodity production, 496 00:25:53.120 --> 00:25:54.745 heavily subsidized by the EU, 497 00:25:55.089 --> 00:25:56.558 that was starting to come apart. 498 00:25:58.392 --> 00:25:59.774 And that markets were changing. 499 00:26:01.516 --> 00:26:05.340 And there was no acknowledgement of that. 500 00:26:05.360 --> 00:26:08.703 So everything that we talked about was just no. 501 00:26:09.524 --> 00:26:11.883 Not just even like transition to organic, 502 00:26:12.563 --> 00:26:13.485 but even like, 503 00:26:13.570 --> 00:26:13.969 okay, 504 00:26:14.344 --> 00:26:17.969 we're harvesting our clover seed today. 505 00:26:19.094 --> 00:26:19.360 You know, 506 00:26:19.453 --> 00:26:27.453 the farmer co-op that I've just met tells me that there's a way to ensure that we have a slightly higher price on that clover seed. 507 00:26:27.884 --> 00:26:30.066 if we do a bit of paperwork ahead of that. 508 00:26:30.447 --> 00:26:31.127 And he was just like, 509 00:26:31.168 --> 00:26:31.287 no, 510 00:26:31.607 --> 00:26:32.330 it's not worth it. 511 00:26:32.428 --> 00:26:34.228 We're not changing anything. 512 00:26:35.033 --> 00:26:42.502 And so more than the technical resources and financial resources, 513 00:26:42.503 --> 00:26:48.666 it's really the human resources and human capital and the people who work with you that make all the difference. 514 00:26:49.619 --> 00:26:54.947 And so that took a few years to... 515 00:26:56.156 --> 00:26:57.477 really work through. 516 00:26:58.398 --> 00:27:00.519 And I made big mistakes. 517 00:27:01.242 --> 00:27:02.383 I made big mistakes, 518 00:27:03.164 --> 00:27:04.066 both in terms of, 519 00:27:04.262 --> 00:27:04.746 at times, 520 00:27:04.785 --> 00:27:09.191 maybe trusting someone whom I shouldn't have trusted, 521 00:27:09.527 --> 00:27:15.949 in terms of the validity of the economic or the agricultural information. 522 00:27:16.918 --> 00:27:20.387 I didn't know much about agricultural contracts at the time, 523 00:27:20.543 --> 00:27:20.902 and so 524 00:27:21.887 --> 00:27:22.324 I got, 525 00:27:22.949 --> 00:27:23.355 I got... 526 00:27:23.752 --> 00:27:41.757 screwed a couple of times um and you learn quickly right and you make a mistake once and you improve and you change and then you know now 11 years later i've got a great team of people working the farm is known for for what it does we have very clear values 527 00:27:41.804 --> 00:27:52.913 around um regenerative you know holistic landscape management call it what you will right and we're now being contacted as you 528 00:27:53.092 --> 00:27:53.352 you know, 529 00:27:53.372 --> 00:27:56.015 a lighthouse farm for research projects. 530 00:27:57.837 --> 00:28:02.099 You've got to make so many mistakes before you find a system that works. 531 00:28:02.404 --> 00:28:06.904 I have had fields that have failed, 532 00:28:07.685 --> 00:28:07.904 right? 533 00:28:08.044 --> 00:28:12.927 And those are big experiences. 534 00:28:13.318 --> 00:28:15.208 And the biggest, 535 00:28:15.833 --> 00:28:17.333 apart from the farm manager, 536 00:28:17.411 --> 00:28:19.833 the biggest kind of... 537 00:28:20.592 --> 00:28:22.875 Mark from that time for me is also, 538 00:28:23.916 --> 00:28:24.635 there was a big, 539 00:28:24.736 --> 00:28:27.318 big drought in 2017. 540 00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:29.357 So I got here in 2014. 541 00:28:29.358 --> 00:28:32.506 We were in the middle of the organic transition. 542 00:28:32.764 --> 00:28:34.225 Commodity prices were low. 543 00:28:34.404 --> 00:28:36.990 I didn't yet have a certifiable product. 544 00:28:37.803 --> 00:28:41.146 And there was an enormous drought here, 545 00:28:41.615 --> 00:28:42.615 right in this area. 546 00:28:43.662 --> 00:28:47.162 And that meant that the yields were low. 547 00:28:47.776 --> 00:28:49.278 because there was not a lot of water. 548 00:28:49.358 --> 00:28:51.781 We had just started things like, 549 00:28:51.860 --> 00:28:52.102 you know, 550 00:28:52.199 --> 00:28:52.801 starting, 551 00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:55.262 just starting to do some crop rotation, 552 00:28:55.684 --> 00:28:57.223 think about cover crops. 553 00:28:57.629 --> 00:28:59.028 I would just started, 554 00:28:59.067 --> 00:29:00.692 so you don't have that base, 555 00:29:01.192 --> 00:29:08.238 that soil base built up yet to help you manage those kind of climate shocks, 556 00:29:08.270 --> 00:29:09.942 which are now regular occurrences. 557 00:29:10.613 --> 00:29:10.957 And 558 00:29:12.176 --> 00:29:15.426 I lost a lot of money in that season and had to, 559 00:29:15.488 --> 00:29:17.082 um 560 00:29:18.008 --> 00:29:33.507 I had to go to the bank for a loan for like an operating loan which definitely made the next few years much more challenging from just like a cash flow and budgeting standpoint but 561 00:29:33.522 --> 00:29:36.726 I learned a lot obviously in that period of time. 562 00:29:37.522 --> 00:29:44.397 Yeah it must be so stressful you're obviously you're convinced about what you want to achieve but everyone else around you is saying 563 00:29:45.116 --> 00:29:45.237 No, 564 00:29:45.457 --> 00:29:46.699 and saying this is not going to work, 565 00:29:46.739 --> 00:29:48.763 and you're literally betting the family farm on it, 566 00:29:48.823 --> 00:29:49.061 right? 567 00:29:49.202 --> 00:29:49.362 Yeah. 568 00:29:49.363 --> 00:29:51.167 It must be super stressful. 569 00:29:51.526 --> 00:29:51.667 Yeah, 570 00:29:51.729 --> 00:29:59.604 and I think that's where the fact that the farm already had some diversified income helped to... 571 00:30:00.048 --> 00:30:01.670 absorb that hit a little bit, 572 00:30:02.190 --> 00:30:02.450 right? 573 00:30:02.591 --> 00:30:05.633 Because we did have an agritourism, 574 00:30:05.673 --> 00:30:07.934 it was a project that my sister had started, 575 00:30:08.317 --> 00:30:10.176 so we had some tourism income. 576 00:30:11.216 --> 00:30:12.380 We do have, 577 00:30:14.364 --> 00:30:14.606 you know, 578 00:30:14.661 --> 00:30:20.294 at that point I was also kind of restructuring the cows that we had, 579 00:30:20.387 --> 00:30:24.466 so it was a really big hit, 580 00:30:24.606 --> 00:30:25.450 but it... 581 00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.623 It was softened by the tourism, 582 00:30:29.024 --> 00:30:31.424 the fact that we do have some tourism income. 583 00:30:31.608 --> 00:30:37.170 And so I relied on that and kind of built out some of the options that we had. 584 00:30:37.834 --> 00:30:40.537 And then it was also that year that given that 585 00:30:41.498 --> 00:30:49.991 I didn't have product that was yet certifiably organic and the conventional commodity prices had dropped, 586 00:30:50.662 --> 00:30:50.850 that 587 00:30:52.272 --> 00:30:55.053 I started a year sooner than planned. 588 00:30:55.448 --> 00:31:00.091 to process my rice and create a farm label, 589 00:31:00.615 --> 00:31:00.853 right? 590 00:31:01.154 --> 00:31:02.075 So that at least 591 00:31:02.556 --> 00:31:03.036 I could, 592 00:31:03.134 --> 00:31:04.919 from the harvest that we had, 593 00:31:06.763 --> 00:31:09.263 start to get a little bit more margin on the product. 594 00:31:09.325 --> 00:31:09.443 But 595 00:31:10.224 --> 00:31:12.607 I had to fast-track that plan, 596 00:31:12.685 --> 00:31:17.732 which I had planned to have for the start of the certified organic product line, 597 00:31:18.591 --> 00:31:21.638 but anticipated that by a year. 598 00:31:22.496 --> 00:31:26.136 at least to be able to cover some of those cash needs then. 599 00:31:26.958 --> 00:31:27.076 Yeah. 600 00:31:28.978 --> 00:31:30.537 This is the end of part one. 601 00:31:30.841 --> 00:31:32.498 Thank you so much for listening until the end. 602 00:31:33.099 --> 00:31:34.818 If you'd like to support me and my work, 603 00:31:34.819 --> 00:31:41.146 you can actually do that in just a few seconds by clicking on the deep seat page and clicking the follow or subscribe button. 604 00:31:41.615 --> 00:31:44.427 It only takes a few seconds and it makes a huge difference for me. 605 00:31:44.458 --> 00:31:49.443 So thank you so much in advance and see you tomorrow for part two of this amazing interview. 606 00:31:54.597 --> 00:31:55.656 Bye.