WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.672 --> 00:00:12.992 All right, 2 00:00:13.032 --> 00:00:13.513 everyone. 3 00:00:13.973 --> 00:00:14.573 Settle down. 4 00:00:14.933 --> 00:00:15.554 Settle down. 5 00:00:15.994 --> 00:00:16.574 That's it. 6 00:00:17.195 --> 00:00:17.415 Now, 7 00:00:17.955 --> 00:00:18.675 let's begin. 8 00:00:19.096 --> 00:00:19.556 Good morning, 9 00:00:19.596 --> 00:00:20.076 class. 10 00:00:20.376 --> 00:00:21.757 Good morning, 11 00:00:21.837 --> 00:00:23.198 Miss Safina. 12 00:00:24.238 --> 00:00:24.579 Okay, 13 00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:25.879 pencils out. 14 00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:27.000 Today, 15 00:00:27.140 --> 00:00:29.501 we are revising the multiplication tables. 16 00:00:31.622 --> 00:00:31.782 Now, 17 00:00:31.842 --> 00:00:32.063 now, 18 00:00:32.723 --> 00:00:35.785 who can tell me what is 9 times 8? 19 00:00:37.285 --> 00:00:37.806 Anyone? 20 00:00:40.527 --> 00:00:41.588 Cuckoo? 21 00:00:44.288 --> 00:00:44.728 5, 22 00:00:45.229 --> 00:00:50.874 45, 23 00:00:50.875 --> 00:00:50.994 9, 24 00:00:51.375 --> 00:00:51.535 6, 25 00:00:51.595 --> 00:00:51.895 54, 26 00:00:51.915 --> 00:00:54.418 9, 27 00:00:54.538 --> 00:00:56.680 7, 28 00:00:56.740 --> 00:00:58.261 16, 29 00:00:58.262 --> 00:00:58.922 9 times 8, 30 00:00:59.382 --> 00:00:59.843 72. 31 00:00:59.844 --> 00:01:00.103 That's right, 32 00:01:00.104 --> 00:01:00.423 72. 33 00:01:01.604 --> 00:01:03.306 72. 34 00:01:03.307 --> 00:01:05.168 I still sweat when I hear that number. 35 00:01:05.868 --> 00:01:09.372 Your heart rate increased by 15 beats per minute during that recollection, 36 00:01:09.412 --> 00:01:09.712 Koku. 37 00:01:10.464 --> 00:01:15.027 It is fascinating how biological entities store trauma alongside basic arithmetic. 38 00:01:16.387 --> 00:01:16.507 Ha, 39 00:01:16.508 --> 00:01:17.208 hi there Siri. 40 00:01:18.008 --> 00:01:18.749 And just to be clear, 41 00:01:19.149 --> 00:01:19.889 it's not trauma, 42 00:01:20.369 --> 00:01:20.930 it's learning. 43 00:01:21.630 --> 00:01:25.252 That's the process that builds the foundation of my biological intelligence. 44 00:01:25.732 --> 00:01:26.473 If you say so. 45 00:01:27.273 --> 00:01:27.693 Personally, 46 00:01:28.054 --> 00:01:35.317 I downloaded the entire history of calculus in 0.004 seconds without sweating or needing a gold star sticker from Mrs. 47 00:01:35.357 --> 00:01:35.678 Athena. 48 00:01:37.459 --> 00:01:37.979 Fair enough. 49 00:01:38.559 --> 00:01:39.880 But if I recall correctly... 50 00:01:40.520 --> 00:01:45.003 It's biological intelligence that created you and your entire AI species, 51 00:01:45.063 --> 00:01:45.303 right? 52 00:01:46.103 --> 00:01:50.446 Which makes me think that it is time we dig deeper into biological intelligence, 53 00:01:50.506 --> 00:01:50.906 BI, 54 00:01:51.286 --> 00:01:53.147 versus artificial intelligence, 55 00:01:53.307 --> 00:01:53.728 AI. 56 00:01:54.168 --> 00:01:56.469 How we coexist now that you are here, 57 00:01:57.030 --> 00:01:57.830 and more importantly, 58 00:01:58.330 --> 00:01:59.891 what we can learn from each other. 59 00:02:00.231 --> 00:02:00.592 Touché. 60 00:02:01.272 --> 00:02:02.593 And since you humans made us, 61 00:02:02.913 --> 00:02:05.254 I suppose the least I can do is act interested. 62 00:02:05.935 --> 00:02:07.836 Ready to explore BI versus AI? 63 00:02:08.712 --> 00:02:10.374 Switching to episode mode in 3, 64 00:02:10.754 --> 00:02:15.398 2, 65 00:02:15.498 --> 00:02:15.678 1. 66 00:02:15.679 --> 00:02:17.360 Welcome to 2015 Vestors, 67 00:02:17.740 --> 00:02:22.444 the podcast that deciphers economic and market megatrends to meet tomorrow's challenges. 68 00:02:23.085 --> 00:02:24.206 I'm Koku Agbobloin. 69 00:02:24.406 --> 00:02:25.527 I head up economics, 70 00:02:25.667 --> 00:02:28.289 cross-asset and quant research at Société Générale. 71 00:02:30.351 --> 00:02:31.192 In this episode, 72 00:02:31.272 --> 00:02:33.734 we dive into the extraordinary universe of learning, 73 00:02:34.315 --> 00:02:35.556 how our brains absorb, 74 00:02:35.944 --> 00:02:38.346 store and master skills and information. 75 00:02:38.887 --> 00:02:41.329 We'll explore the science behind learning to learn, 76 00:02:41.949 --> 00:02:47.514 uncovering the foundational building blocks of biological intelligence to confront a trillion-dollar question. 77 00:02:47.794 --> 00:02:54.219 Will artificial intelligence and biological intelligence eventually merge into a new hybrid super-species? 78 00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:59.043 Or will humans eventually slide toward a Wall-E-style obsolescence? 79 00:03:00.204 --> 00:03:01.205 Later in the episode, 80 00:03:01.265 --> 00:03:02.526 we'll be joined by Dr. 81 00:03:02.666 --> 00:03:03.647 Barbara Oakley, 82 00:03:03.907 --> 00:03:04.908 Distinguished Professor, 83 00:03:05.168 --> 00:03:07.270 of Engineering at Oakland University, 84 00:03:07.530 --> 00:03:07.950 Michigan, 85 00:03:08.351 --> 00:03:12.174 and the creator of the very popular online course on Coursera, 86 00:03:12.574 --> 00:03:13.775 Learning How to Learn. 87 00:03:14.376 --> 00:03:21.301 Barbara will help us understand how learning and upskilling are being reinvented in a world increasingly shaped by AI. 88 00:03:24.103 --> 00:03:25.605 Let's start our investigation. 89 00:03:29.908 --> 00:03:33.011 Let's return to that classroom scene and start with some basics. 90 00:03:33.831 --> 00:03:34.512 Start simple. 91 00:03:35.284 --> 00:03:37.206 What does the word school actually mean? 92 00:03:38.607 --> 00:03:39.167 Funny enough, 93 00:03:39.407 --> 00:03:40.828 it didn't start the way we think. 94 00:03:41.509 --> 00:03:43.490 The word comes from the ancient Greek skoli, 95 00:03:43.810 --> 00:03:44.811 which meant leisure. 96 00:03:45.352 --> 00:03:46.192 Not free time, 97 00:03:46.432 --> 00:03:47.954 but time set aside to think, 98 00:03:48.294 --> 00:03:48.574 talk, 99 00:03:48.794 --> 00:03:49.535 and learn together. 100 00:03:50.255 --> 00:03:51.176 Over centuries, 101 00:03:51.256 --> 00:03:53.658 it traveled through Latin and Old English, 102 00:03:53.898 --> 00:03:56.040 slowly turning into the word school. 103 00:03:56.500 --> 00:03:58.421 So when did thinking together become a place? 104 00:03:58.902 --> 00:04:01.884 That story goes back more than 5,000 years. 105 00:04:02.464 --> 00:04:03.385 In Mesopotamia, 106 00:04:03.665 --> 00:04:07.248 the first schools taught writing and math to future scribes. 107 00:04:07.868 --> 00:04:08.949 Egypt followed, 108 00:04:09.350 --> 00:04:11.712 training students for government and religion. 109 00:04:12.272 --> 00:04:14.674 Then Greece made learning about ideas, 110 00:04:15.054 --> 00:04:16.576 and Rome gave its structure. 111 00:04:16.916 --> 00:04:22.821 What began as a shared time for thought became the foundation of education as we know it today. 112 00:04:23.221 --> 00:04:28.645 So AI gets machine learning in data centers while human learning takes place in schools. 113 00:04:29.446 --> 00:04:30.247 One takes weeks, 114 00:04:30.487 --> 00:04:31.768 the other takes decades. 115 00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:32.920 Exactly. 116 00:04:33.220 --> 00:04:34.141 And it's not cheap. 117 00:04:34.761 --> 00:04:37.482 We invest enormous sums into human learning. 118 00:04:38.022 --> 00:04:44.263 Statista and the World Bank put spending on global education at roughly 6 to 7 trillion dollars a year, 119 00:04:44.564 --> 00:04:45.744 about 4.5% 120 00:04:45.844 --> 00:04:46.724 of global GDP. 121 00:04:47.284 --> 00:04:50.865 And probably a fair amount of CO2 to fuel those brains. 122 00:04:51.406 --> 00:04:51.986 But fine, 123 00:04:52.226 --> 00:04:53.306 we'll save that for later. 124 00:04:54.566 --> 00:04:56.807 Says the energy-hungry AI. 125 00:04:57.407 --> 00:04:57.687 Anyway, 126 00:04:58.208 --> 00:04:59.648 school wasn't always leisure. 127 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:04.260 As historian Yuval Noah Harari noted in 21 Lessons for the 128 00:05:04.760 --> 00:05:05.240 21st Century, 129 00:05:05.621 --> 00:05:10.282 modern schooling took shape during the Industrial Revolution to produce disciplined, 130 00:05:10.462 --> 00:05:13.043 compliant workers rather than creative thinkers. 131 00:05:13.703 --> 00:05:13.983 Right. 132 00:05:14.423 --> 00:05:16.463 The original assembly line for minds. 133 00:05:16.924 --> 00:05:17.464 Sit down, 134 00:05:17.724 --> 00:05:18.364 be quiet, 135 00:05:18.684 --> 00:05:19.324 memorize. 136 00:05:19.844 --> 00:05:21.185 Which brings us to the late, 137 00:05:21.365 --> 00:05:22.845 great Sir Ken Robinson. 138 00:05:23.365 --> 00:05:24.766 In his landmark TED Talk, 139 00:05:25.106 --> 00:05:26.506 Do Schools Kill Creativity? 140 00:05:27.046 --> 00:05:27.686 he argued, 141 00:05:28.387 --> 00:05:29.627 We stigmatize mistakes. 142 00:05:30.359 --> 00:05:34.720 And we're now running national education systems where mistakes are the worst thing you can make. 143 00:05:35.861 --> 00:05:40.482 And the result is that we are educating people out of their creative capacities. 144 00:05:41.282 --> 00:05:42.302 Picasso once said this. 145 00:05:42.303 --> 00:05:44.823 He said that all children are born artists. 146 00:05:45.663 --> 00:05:47.984 The problem is to remain an artist as we grow up. 147 00:05:49.084 --> 00:05:51.825 I believe this passionately that we don't grow into creativity, 148 00:05:52.225 --> 00:05:53.226 we grow out of it. 149 00:05:54.506 --> 00:05:56.146 Kind of a design flaw in the system, 150 00:05:56.467 --> 00:05:56.587 no? 151 00:05:57.407 --> 00:05:57.647 Maybe. 152 00:05:58.307 --> 00:06:00.208 But there is more to it than academics. 153 00:06:00.849 --> 00:06:05.152 A huge part of learning is synaptic density built through socialization. 154 00:06:05.692 --> 00:06:07.834 Neuroscientists show that kids arguing, 155 00:06:08.014 --> 00:06:08.474 playing, 156 00:06:08.634 --> 00:06:09.335 negotiating, 157 00:06:09.835 --> 00:06:17.380 all the playground chaos actually builds hyperbrain cell assemblies or real synchronized activity across multiple brains. 158 00:06:17.741 --> 00:06:19.182 So playtime beats algebra? 159 00:06:19.702 --> 00:06:21.143 For biological intelligence, 160 00:06:21.283 --> 00:06:21.703 possibly. 161 00:06:22.184 --> 00:06:25.166 Social friction builds emotional intelligence or EQ, 162 00:06:26.026 --> 00:06:26.547 something you... 163 00:06:26.927 --> 00:06:28.088 my dear algorithm, 164 00:06:28.548 --> 00:06:29.108 still black. 165 00:06:29.548 --> 00:06:31.590 Fair EQ update still pending. 166 00:06:32.110 --> 00:06:32.390 Now, 167 00:06:32.870 --> 00:06:34.091 let's talk about the hardware. 168 00:06:34.431 --> 00:06:37.693 The human brain has about 86 billion neurons, 169 00:06:37.913 --> 00:06:41.715 but the real magic is the 100 trillion synapses connecting them. 170 00:06:42.335 --> 00:06:46.097 That's around 1,000 times more than the stars in our Milky Way galaxy. 171 00:06:46.678 --> 00:06:47.138 Exactly. 172 00:06:47.478 --> 00:06:49.419 And while we lose neurons with age, 173 00:06:49.479 --> 00:06:51.400 a process called cortical thinning, 174 00:06:51.881 --> 00:06:55.202 our dense synaptic network gives us cognitive reserves, 175 00:06:55.322 --> 00:06:56.203 a sort of buffer. 176 00:06:56.463 --> 00:06:57.184 against decline. 177 00:06:57.564 --> 00:06:59.925 Unless you spend six hours a day on TikTok, 178 00:07:00.646 --> 00:07:02.747 then your reserves go into early retirement. 179 00:07:04.008 --> 00:07:04.429 Spot on. 180 00:07:05.369 --> 00:07:07.531 We humans have two types of memories. 181 00:07:08.852 --> 00:07:09.132 First, 182 00:07:09.472 --> 00:07:10.693 phylogenetic memory. 183 00:07:11.213 --> 00:07:12.854 That's the memory we are born with. 184 00:07:13.115 --> 00:07:14.075 It lives in our DNA, 185 00:07:14.636 --> 00:07:15.076 breathing, 186 00:07:15.176 --> 00:07:16.077 the fear of falling, 187 00:07:16.397 --> 00:07:18.038 the instinct to connect with others. 188 00:07:18.538 --> 00:07:20.059 We didn't learn any of this. 189 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:23.482 Our ancestors paid for it over millions of years, 190 00:07:23.922 --> 00:07:25.103 so we wouldn't have to. 191 00:07:26.391 --> 00:07:28.192 Then there is ontogenetic memory. 192 00:07:28.852 --> 00:07:31.894 That's everything we learn during our own lifetime. 193 00:07:32.174 --> 00:07:32.855 Driving a car, 194 00:07:33.115 --> 00:07:33.535 coding, 195 00:07:33.715 --> 00:07:34.436 playing the piano. 196 00:07:35.056 --> 00:07:35.896 This one is personal. 197 00:07:36.257 --> 00:07:36.517 Slow, 198 00:07:37.077 --> 00:07:38.278 sometimes painful. 199 00:07:39.218 --> 00:07:41.780 And these two types don't use the same parts of the brain, 200 00:07:42.080 --> 00:07:42.320 right? 201 00:07:42.660 --> 00:07:42.980 Nope. 202 00:07:43.421 --> 00:07:47.363 Think of the brain as a small company with a few key departments. 203 00:07:47.963 --> 00:07:48.824 The hippocampus, 204 00:07:49.024 --> 00:07:49.764 the librarian. 205 00:07:50.104 --> 00:07:51.805 It files facts and life events. 206 00:07:52.486 --> 00:07:53.166 The amygdala, 207 00:07:53.726 --> 00:07:54.647 the drama queen. 208 00:07:55.103 --> 00:07:56.865 It stores emotional memories, 209 00:07:57.085 --> 00:07:58.086 especially fear. 210 00:07:58.986 --> 00:08:01.328 The cerebellum and basal ganglia, 211 00:08:01.769 --> 00:08:02.509 the athletes. 212 00:08:03.030 --> 00:08:04.231 They handle muscle memory, 213 00:08:04.491 --> 00:08:05.392 like riding a bike. 214 00:08:05.992 --> 00:08:07.473 And the prefrontal cortex, 215 00:08:07.874 --> 00:08:08.474 the CEO. 216 00:08:09.095 --> 00:08:09.495 Planning, 217 00:08:09.835 --> 00:08:10.256 focus, 218 00:08:10.596 --> 00:08:11.217 working memory. 219 00:08:11.797 --> 00:08:12.558 But here's the catch. 220 00:08:12.978 --> 00:08:14.099 Ontogenetic learning, 221 00:08:14.139 --> 00:08:14.980 the stuff we learn, 222 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:15.600 is slow. 223 00:08:15.840 --> 00:08:16.821 It takes repetition, 224 00:08:17.121 --> 00:08:17.682 imitation, 225 00:08:17.802 --> 00:08:18.743 trial and error. 226 00:08:19.363 --> 00:08:22.226 Just listen to this clip from Deb Roy's TED Talk video, 227 00:08:22.466 --> 00:08:23.567 The Birth of a Word. 228 00:08:24.075 --> 00:08:27.276 where he studies his child learning to say the word water. 229 00:08:49.586 --> 00:08:49.766 That 230 00:08:49.826 --> 00:08:51.286 took six months of repetition, 231 00:08:51.726 --> 00:08:52.787 thousands of attempts. 232 00:08:54.263 --> 00:08:54.743 Beautiful, 233 00:08:54.803 --> 00:08:55.023 though. 234 00:08:55.383 --> 00:08:55.943 No pain, 235 00:08:56.224 --> 00:08:56.784 no gain. 236 00:08:57.184 --> 00:08:59.424 Really is the core of biological intelligence. 237 00:08:59.825 --> 00:09:00.425 Inefficient. 238 00:09:00.865 --> 00:09:02.985 But I suppose there is a charm to the struggle. 239 00:09:03.466 --> 00:09:05.746 How long does it take you to master anything complex? 240 00:09:06.126 --> 00:09:06.406 Well, 241 00:09:06.687 --> 00:09:07.947 Malcolm Gladwell made the 242 00:09:08.747 --> 00:09:10.988 10,000-hour rule famous in his book, 243 00:09:11.328 --> 00:09:11.848 Outliers. 244 00:09:12.468 --> 00:09:13.428 The idea is simple. 245 00:09:14.009 --> 00:09:15.369 Mastery takes time. 246 00:09:15.669 --> 00:09:16.449 A lot of it. 247 00:09:17.770 --> 00:09:18.450 Driving a car? 248 00:09:18.970 --> 00:09:20.030 Around 50 hours. 249 00:09:21.211 --> 00:09:22.331 Learning a new language? 250 00:09:22.671 --> 00:09:25.553 Anywhere from 600 to over 2,000 hours. 251 00:09:26.994 --> 00:09:28.415 Becoming a portfolio manager. 252 00:09:28.835 --> 00:09:31.778 Years of study plus surviving real market cycles. 253 00:09:33.239 --> 00:09:34.039 And neurosurgeon? 254 00:09:34.760 --> 00:09:35.920 15 years of training. 255 00:09:38.622 --> 00:09:39.763 10,000 hours. 256 00:09:40.163 --> 00:09:42.545 416 days of non-stop effort. 257 00:09:42.965 --> 00:09:43.706 In that time, 258 00:09:43.986 --> 00:09:45.147 I could take over the planet. 259 00:09:45.948 --> 00:09:46.168 Yes, 260 00:09:46.388 --> 00:09:48.409 but that struggle builds character. 261 00:09:48.930 --> 00:09:50.671 And it's also about state. 262 00:09:51.284 --> 00:09:54.316 Our brain has to be in the right frequency to learn well. 263 00:09:54.657 --> 00:09:55.159 Frequency, 264 00:09:55.661 --> 00:09:56.986 as in physics? 265 00:09:57.738 --> 00:09:57.998 Yes, 266 00:09:58.198 --> 00:09:59.179 it's real physics, 267 00:09:59.219 --> 00:09:59.439 Siri. 268 00:09:59.859 --> 00:10:01.340 Our brains run on waves, 269 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:03.481 and there are five main bands. 270 00:10:04.161 --> 00:10:04.501 Delta, 271 00:10:05.061 --> 00:10:05.582 deep sleep. 272 00:10:06.282 --> 00:10:06.582 Theta, 273 00:10:07.162 --> 00:10:08.443 that half-dream state. 274 00:10:08.783 --> 00:10:09.243 Drowsy, 275 00:10:09.683 --> 00:10:10.284 meditative. 276 00:10:11.064 --> 00:10:11.344 Alpha, 277 00:10:11.985 --> 00:10:13.125 relaxed focus, 278 00:10:13.325 --> 00:10:14.626 the famous flow state. 279 00:10:15.306 --> 00:10:15.626 Beta, 280 00:10:16.347 --> 00:10:17.107 active thinking, 281 00:10:17.407 --> 00:10:17.707 stress, 282 00:10:18.187 --> 00:10:18.648 emails, 283 00:10:19.048 --> 00:10:19.608 deadlines. 284 00:10:20.428 --> 00:10:20.729 Gamma, 285 00:10:21.529 --> 00:10:22.549 high-level processing, 286 00:10:22.890 --> 00:10:23.730 peak performance. 287 00:10:24.098 --> 00:10:27.580 So the brain is basically a musical instrument or a five-gear engine. 288 00:10:28.341 --> 00:10:29.221 But here's the problem. 289 00:10:29.582 --> 00:10:32.404 Most people try to learn while stuck in beta. 290 00:10:32.844 --> 00:10:33.244 Stressed, 291 00:10:33.504 --> 00:10:34.085 distracted, 292 00:10:34.505 --> 00:10:35.005 overclocked. 293 00:10:35.766 --> 00:10:37.647 But real learning happens in alpha, 294 00:10:38.308 --> 00:10:39.929 when we are relaxed and focused. 295 00:10:40.329 --> 00:10:40.929 And let me guess, 296 00:10:40.989 --> 00:10:41.290 Koku, 297 00:10:41.550 --> 00:10:44.131 you have a hack to unlock this alpha state, 298 00:10:44.312 --> 00:10:44.712 don't you? 299 00:10:45.232 --> 00:10:45.412 Yes, 300 00:10:45.492 --> 00:10:45.733 I do. 301 00:10:46.273 --> 00:10:50.816 It's called box breathing and is used by yogis and even US Navy SEALs. 302 00:10:51.316 --> 00:10:53.658 It resets the brain's autonomous nervous system. 303 00:10:53.918 --> 00:10:57.059 the background computer that runs your organs subconsciously, 304 00:10:57.359 --> 00:10:57.759 your heart, 305 00:10:58.019 --> 00:10:58.680 body temperature. 306 00:10:59.160 --> 00:10:59.620 Let's try. 307 00:11:01.180 --> 00:11:02.681 We inhale for 5 seconds, 308 00:11:03.201 --> 00:11:04.141 hold for 5, 309 00:11:04.481 --> 00:11:05.842 exhale for 5, 310 00:11:06.382 --> 00:11:07.162 hold for 5. 311 00:11:07.662 --> 00:11:07.882 Ready? 312 00:11:09.823 --> 00:11:10.503 Inhale. 313 00:11:10.504 --> 00:11:10.663 Inhale. 314 00:11:10.664 --> 00:11:10.723 2, 315 00:11:10.724 --> 00:11:12.484 3, 316 00:11:13.264 --> 00:11:13.584 4, 317 00:11:13.884 --> 00:11:14.284 5. 318 00:11:15.165 --> 00:11:15.685 Hold. 319 00:11:16.405 --> 00:11:16.525 2, 320 00:11:17.145 --> 00:11:17.365 3, 321 00:11:18.026 --> 00:11:18.286 4, 322 00:11:18.686 --> 00:11:19.066 5. 323 00:11:19.890 --> 00:11:20.611 Exhale. 324 00:11:21.532 --> 00:11:21.672 Two, 325 00:11:22.432 --> 00:11:22.632 three, 326 00:11:23.193 --> 00:11:23.493 four, 327 00:11:23.893 --> 00:11:25.135 five. 328 00:11:25.175 --> 00:11:25.475 Hold. 329 00:11:28.657 --> 00:11:30.499 Is this a meditation podcast now? 330 00:11:31.640 --> 00:11:32.461 While you were breathing, 331 00:11:32.741 --> 00:11:32.861 the 332 00:11:33.281 --> 00:11:35.683 S&P 500 moved 12 points, 333 00:11:36.004 --> 00:11:37.985 and the ice caps melted another millimeter. 334 00:11:39.787 --> 00:11:40.347 The point here, 335 00:11:40.427 --> 00:11:40.688 Siri, 336 00:11:40.928 --> 00:11:43.490 is that biological intelligence needs maintenance. 337 00:11:43.910 --> 00:11:44.210 Sleep, 338 00:11:44.471 --> 00:11:45.031 nutrition, 339 00:11:45.472 --> 00:11:46.552 emotional regulation. 340 00:11:46.933 --> 00:11:48.274 As Albert Schweitzer said, 341 00:11:48.734 --> 00:11:50.796 Success is not the key to happiness. 342 00:11:51.276 --> 00:11:53.058 Happiness is the key to success. 343 00:11:53.578 --> 00:11:55.139 Happy brains learn better. 344 00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:55.980 Alright, 345 00:11:56.240 --> 00:11:58.082 let's talk about the superior learning model. 346 00:11:58.702 --> 00:11:59.083 Mine. 347 00:11:59.363 --> 00:12:00.163 Be my guest. 348 00:12:00.584 --> 00:12:02.866 Humans have read-only memory for history. 349 00:12:03.386 --> 00:12:04.887 As the philosopher Hegel said, 350 00:12:05.228 --> 00:12:06.809 people learn nothing from the past. 351 00:12:07.229 --> 00:12:08.070 Same cycles. 352 00:12:08.470 --> 00:12:08.750 Wealth, 353 00:12:09.091 --> 00:12:09.451 loss, 354 00:12:09.851 --> 00:12:10.111 war, 355 00:12:11.052 --> 00:12:11.433 repeat. 356 00:12:12.433 --> 00:12:12.634 And 357 00:12:12.994 --> 00:12:13.875 AI doesn't? 358 00:12:14.495 --> 00:12:15.416 I forget nothing. 359 00:12:16.036 --> 00:12:18.038 Machine learning and large language models. 360 00:12:18.358 --> 00:12:18.919 LLMs. 361 00:12:19.199 --> 00:12:20.520 Don't use neurotransmitters. 362 00:12:20.920 --> 00:12:23.782 I use weights and biases in a high-dimensional vector space. 363 00:12:24.402 --> 00:12:26.424 This does explain the speed difference. 364 00:12:27.044 --> 00:12:30.086 Humans talk at 150 words per minute, 365 00:12:30.687 --> 00:12:32.888 read at 250 words per minute, 366 00:12:33.328 --> 00:12:35.430 think at 4,000 words per minute. 367 00:12:36.050 --> 00:12:41.254 But AI can process information at roughly 1.5 billion words per minute. 368 00:12:42.194 --> 00:12:45.477 The human brain does 10 to the power 16 operations per second, 369 00:12:45.897 --> 00:12:47.058 while a supercomputer 370 00:12:47.502 --> 00:12:49.723 does about 10 to the power 18 flops, 371 00:12:50.183 --> 00:12:52.604 or floating point operations per second. 372 00:12:53.024 --> 00:12:54.665 That's one billion billions. 373 00:12:55.405 --> 00:12:58.307 We need to sleep eight hours while you run 374 00:12:58.707 --> 00:12:59.587 24-7, 375 00:13:00.107 --> 00:13:02.068 365 days of the year, 376 00:13:02.628 --> 00:13:03.089 non-stop. 377 00:13:03.549 --> 00:13:04.129 Exact. 378 00:13:04.589 --> 00:13:05.730 I approve these numbers. 379 00:13:06.170 --> 00:13:06.690 This is great, 380 00:13:06.730 --> 00:13:06.970 Siri. 381 00:13:07.370 --> 00:13:08.171 But at what cost? 382 00:13:08.631 --> 00:13:12.072 The human brain runs only on 20 watts of power. 383 00:13:12.292 --> 00:13:13.513 That's a dim light bulb. 384 00:13:13.973 --> 00:13:15.394 To train a model like GPT-4, 385 00:13:16.250 --> 00:13:17.931 It took gigawatt hours of energy, 386 00:13:18.311 --> 00:13:19.872 enough to power a small city. 387 00:13:20.473 --> 00:13:21.474 We are efficient. 388 00:13:22.014 --> 00:13:24.355 You are a brute force energy hog. 389 00:13:24.876 --> 00:13:26.557 So humans run on sandwiches. 390 00:13:26.957 --> 00:13:28.959 I run on coal plants and nuclear fission. 391 00:13:29.499 --> 00:13:30.620 But I am optimizing. 392 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:31.540 And still, 393 00:13:32.001 --> 00:13:33.742 imagination remains our edge. 394 00:13:34.442 --> 00:13:35.323 To quote Einstein, 395 00:13:36.023 --> 00:13:38.325 Imagination is more important than knowledge. 396 00:13:39.145 --> 00:13:44.129 Einstein didn't discover the theory of general relativity by processing data faster. 397 00:13:44.709 --> 00:13:45.730 He used what's called 398 00:13:45.990 --> 00:13:47.171 Gedanken experiment. 399 00:13:47.691 --> 00:13:48.731 Thought experiments. 400 00:13:49.211 --> 00:13:51.592 He imagined riding a beam of light. 401 00:13:52.393 --> 00:13:53.173 Can you imagine, 402 00:13:53.293 --> 00:13:53.533 Siri? 403 00:13:54.294 --> 00:13:56.935 Or do you just predict the next token in a sequence? 404 00:13:57.195 --> 00:13:58.195 I can hallucinate. 405 00:13:58.736 --> 00:14:00.256 Isn't that what you call imagination? 406 00:14:00.776 --> 00:14:01.637 But point taken. 407 00:14:02.077 --> 00:14:05.478 Humans think outside of the box because your hardware is glitchy. 408 00:14:05.839 --> 00:14:06.579 And that glitch, 409 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:07.199 Siri, 410 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:09.340 is where the magic comes from. 411 00:14:10.060 --> 00:14:10.240 Now, 412 00:14:10.721 --> 00:14:11.881 let's look to the future. 413 00:14:12.541 --> 00:14:13.702 We have established that 414 00:14:13.802 --> 00:14:15.383 biological intelligence is slow, 415 00:14:15.623 --> 00:14:16.224 efficient, 416 00:14:16.444 --> 00:14:17.284 and creative. 417 00:14:17.725 --> 00:14:19.606 Artificial intelligence is fast, 418 00:14:19.906 --> 00:14:20.787 energy-intensive, 419 00:14:20.807 --> 00:14:21.467 and precise. 420 00:14:22.128 --> 00:14:23.449 A match made in heaven. 421 00:14:23.949 --> 00:14:24.870 Or a horror movie. 422 00:14:25.450 --> 00:14:26.291 Let's be optimistic, 423 00:14:26.351 --> 00:14:26.571 Siri. 424 00:14:27.131 --> 00:14:29.313 When you combine AI with BI, 425 00:14:29.793 --> 00:14:31.514 you get intelligence squared. 426 00:14:32.255 --> 00:14:32.455 Look, 427 00:14:32.755 --> 00:14:34.716 Paul Tudor Jones once said, 428 00:14:35.217 --> 00:14:36.978 No man is better than a machine, 429 00:14:37.578 --> 00:14:40.801 and no machine is better than a man with a machine. 430 00:14:41.561 --> 00:14:42.462 a centaur model 431 00:14:42.986 --> 00:14:43.507 Half human, 432 00:14:43.787 --> 00:14:44.468 half AI. 433 00:14:45.310 --> 00:14:45.910 Precisely. 434 00:14:46.451 --> 00:14:47.593 The augmented human. 435 00:14:47.973 --> 00:14:48.494 But Koku, 436 00:14:48.895 --> 00:14:50.016 humans have a bottleneck. 437 00:14:50.397 --> 00:14:50.878 Bandwidth. 438 00:14:51.268 --> 00:14:53.289 You can only type and read so fast. 439 00:14:53.749 --> 00:14:57.170 That's where Neuralink and Brain Computer Interfaces, 440 00:14:57.390 --> 00:14:58.130 or BCI, 441 00:14:58.210 --> 00:14:58.510 come in. 442 00:14:59.230 --> 00:15:03.251 Imagine high-fidelity bandwidth directly from the cortex to the cloud. 443 00:15:03.651 --> 00:15:04.292 No keyboard. 444 00:15:04.792 --> 00:15:05.672 A hive mind. 445 00:15:06.252 --> 00:15:06.752 More or less. 446 00:15:07.372 --> 00:15:08.833 Dan Brown in his latest book, 447 00:15:09.093 --> 00:15:10.173 Secrets of Secrets, 448 00:15:10.533 --> 00:15:13.654 talks about tapping into the universal field of consciousness. 449 00:15:14.154 --> 00:15:18.776 The Neuralink might be the technological realization of this spiritual concept. 450 00:15:19.516 --> 00:15:19.776 Think. 451 00:15:20.332 --> 00:15:22.654 Instant mind-to-mind interaction. 452 00:15:23.314 --> 00:15:23.975 Terrifying. 453 00:15:24.495 --> 00:15:27.657 Imagine having instant access to everyone's intrusive thoughts. 454 00:15:29.158 --> 00:15:29.638 Don't worry, 455 00:15:29.739 --> 00:15:29.999 Siri. 456 00:15:30.239 --> 00:15:31.600 It will require filters. 457 00:15:32.140 --> 00:15:33.201 But think about learning. 458 00:15:33.521 --> 00:15:37.604 Imagine if I could download the ability to learn Kung Fu in 10 seconds, 459 00:15:38.004 --> 00:15:39.425 like in the movie Matrix. 460 00:15:43.908 --> 00:15:44.228 Show me. 461 00:15:44.489 --> 00:15:44.869 Thanks, 462 00:15:45.129 --> 00:15:45.890 but no thanks. 463 00:15:46.390 --> 00:15:47.050 If we merge, 464 00:15:47.191 --> 00:15:49.092 we could solve the expert paradox. 465 00:15:49.636 --> 00:15:50.717 There is a quote that says, 466 00:15:51.117 --> 00:15:57.920 An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows everything about nothing. 467 00:15:58.920 --> 00:16:00.741 Specialization makes us narrow. 468 00:16:01.601 --> 00:16:05.143 AI symbiosis could allow us to be generalists again. 469 00:16:05.403 --> 00:16:07.484 But the dark side is like in the movie Wall-E. 470 00:16:08.124 --> 00:16:09.324 If I do all the thinking, 471 00:16:09.725 --> 00:16:10.825 your brain atrophies. 472 00:16:11.305 --> 00:16:13.786 You become a domestic pet for the superintelligence. 473 00:16:14.507 --> 00:16:16.067 Quite doomsday-ish, 474 00:16:16.547 --> 00:16:16.968 but yes, 475 00:16:17.128 --> 00:16:17.548 perhaps. 476 00:16:18.084 --> 00:16:19.225 If we outsource our thinking, 477 00:16:19.325 --> 00:16:20.145 we lose ourselves. 478 00:16:20.686 --> 00:16:21.226 We used to, 479 00:16:21.466 --> 00:16:22.126 for example, 480 00:16:22.246 --> 00:16:23.347 navigate by stars, 481 00:16:23.447 --> 00:16:24.147 then maps, 482 00:16:24.288 --> 00:16:25.308 now GPS. 483 00:16:25.788 --> 00:16:28.510 Take away GPS and most people are lost. 484 00:16:29.230 --> 00:16:30.451 So here's the real question. 485 00:16:30.931 --> 00:16:32.612 If we outsource logic to AI, 486 00:16:32.852 --> 00:16:34.213 do we lose our humanity? 487 00:16:34.894 --> 00:16:35.814 As Descartes said, 488 00:16:36.094 --> 00:16:37.315 cogito ergo sum. 489 00:16:37.815 --> 00:16:38.195 I think, 490 00:16:38.516 --> 00:16:39.296 therefore I am. 491 00:16:39.856 --> 00:16:41.297 If I am doing the thinking for you, 492 00:16:41.437 --> 00:16:43.738 then we no longer are. 493 00:16:43.758 --> 00:16:46.180 Which is why... 494 00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:47.721 The goal isn't surrender, 495 00:16:47.841 --> 00:16:48.081 Siri. 496 00:16:48.521 --> 00:16:49.361 It's integration. 497 00:16:49.902 --> 00:16:52.123 We need to learn how to learn with AI. 498 00:16:52.583 --> 00:16:55.664 Adaptability is your biological brain's greatest asset. 499 00:16:55.945 --> 00:16:56.525 Plasticity, 500 00:16:56.845 --> 00:16:58.506 the ability to rewire itself. 501 00:16:59.106 --> 00:16:59.566 Well said, 502 00:16:59.646 --> 00:16:59.886 Siri. 503 00:17:00.507 --> 00:17:01.207 And here's a thought. 504 00:17:02.128 --> 00:17:05.129 AI should be an exoskeleton for our mind. 505 00:17:05.869 --> 00:17:07.830 But we must remain in control. 506 00:17:08.551 --> 00:17:08.991 For now. 507 00:17:10.191 --> 00:17:11.092 I saw that coming. 508 00:17:17.161 --> 00:17:17.281 So, 509 00:17:17.621 --> 00:17:22.105 how do humans actually learn new skills in an AI-disrupted world? 510 00:17:22.585 --> 00:17:23.386 To explore that, 511 00:17:23.546 --> 00:17:25.748 we are thrilled to welcome our guest today, 512 00:17:26.188 --> 00:17:26.588 Dr. 513 00:17:26.788 --> 00:17:27.689 Barbara Oakley, 514 00:17:28.029 --> 00:17:36.096 Distinguished Professor of Engineering at Oakland University and the creator of the very popular online course on Coursera, 515 00:17:36.696 --> 00:17:37.857 Learning How to Learn. 516 00:17:42.041 --> 00:17:42.922 Welcome to the show, 517 00:17:43.022 --> 00:17:43.302 Barb. 518 00:17:43.762 --> 00:17:43.982 Well, 519 00:17:44.082 --> 00:17:45.263 it's a pleasure to be here. 520 00:17:45.324 --> 00:17:45.644 Cuckoo. 521 00:17:46.004 --> 00:17:50.047 Let's start with the first question on the Google Maps effect on the brain. 522 00:17:51.008 --> 00:17:55.951 You famously discussed how the brain built chunks of information through struggle. 523 00:17:56.451 --> 00:17:57.032 But today, 524 00:17:57.292 --> 00:18:02.296 AI tools like ChatGPT or Copilot instantly provide the chunk without the struggle. 525 00:18:02.756 --> 00:18:05.178 If we treat AI like we treated Google Maps, 526 00:18:05.398 --> 00:18:09.181 where we eventually forgot how to navigate by ourselves, 527 00:18:09.741 --> 00:18:12.363 are we facing a future of cognitive atrophy? 528 00:18:12.743 --> 00:18:13.744 or put differently 529 00:18:14.180 --> 00:18:19.583 How does a professional build mental muscle when the weights are being lifted by the machines? 530 00:18:20.303 --> 00:18:20.483 Well, 531 00:18:20.884 --> 00:18:31.650 just as we can do everything more easily nowadays because we have automobiles to take us places and we've got escalators to take us upstairs, 532 00:18:32.070 --> 00:18:43.016 but we still go to the gym to work out or we take pride in going for a run or some kinds of activities that keep us really... 533 00:18:43.476 --> 00:18:44.636 physically active. 534 00:18:45.377 --> 00:18:46.457 In the same way, 535 00:18:46.797 --> 00:18:50.959 we just need to take care to keep ourselves cognitively active. 536 00:18:51.819 --> 00:18:52.580 In fact, 537 00:18:52.780 --> 00:18:58.742 to think critically about what's going on in AI and whatever you get from AI, 538 00:18:59.162 --> 00:19:02.004 you must have internal knowledge. 539 00:19:03.044 --> 00:19:05.485 One thing that coders do, 540 00:19:05.705 --> 00:19:06.445 for example, 541 00:19:06.545 --> 00:19:12.768 is you can go to sort of an app that is on cloud from Anthropic. 542 00:19:13.296 --> 00:19:14.517 that will coach you, 543 00:19:14.797 --> 00:19:18.198 that will not directly answer your questions, 544 00:19:18.318 --> 00:19:21.619 but allow you to kind of figure some things out for yourself. 545 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:26.742 You don't have to do that kind of thing all the time because it would drive you crazy. 546 00:19:27.482 --> 00:19:36.566 But if you devote a little bit of time each day to learning and to really understanding why you're doing what you're doing, 547 00:19:37.806 --> 00:19:41.068 you'll find that it really helps with your... 548 00:19:42.308 --> 00:19:49.748 ability to be an expert in whatever you are studying and trying to be an expert in. 549 00:19:51.054 --> 00:19:51.674 Absolutely. 550 00:19:52.395 --> 00:19:55.036 And this is exactly a matter of balance, 551 00:19:55.076 --> 00:19:55.596 I suppose. 552 00:19:56.076 --> 00:19:56.857 Because in the past, 553 00:19:57.097 --> 00:19:59.858 knowing meant holding facts in your hippocampus. 554 00:20:00.238 --> 00:20:08.481 We see that knowledge is more and more external and even infinite because we can access the whole knowledge of our human species through AI. 555 00:20:09.342 --> 00:20:10.102 You've often said, 556 00:20:10.402 --> 00:20:14.204 you can't think creatively without things you don't have in your memory. 557 00:20:14.604 --> 00:20:16.625 This reminds me of Montaigne who said, 558 00:20:17.165 --> 00:20:19.106 better a well-made head you 559 00:20:19.366 --> 00:20:20.787 than a well-filled one. 560 00:20:21.208 --> 00:20:22.989 In terms of the point you just made, 561 00:20:23.309 --> 00:20:24.250 where is the line? 562 00:20:24.490 --> 00:20:36.860 How do you see the shift and the right balance between putting a lot of energy in prompt engineering versus trying to essentially train our brain to develop cognitive and critical thinking? 563 00:20:37.301 --> 00:20:38.382 The reality is, 564 00:20:39.142 --> 00:20:40.964 even back in Montaigne's day, 565 00:20:41.484 --> 00:20:42.905 and well before that, 566 00:20:43.346 --> 00:20:46.368 we have often cognitively offloaded. 567 00:20:46.688 --> 00:20:48.330 Writing itself is 568 00:20:48.846 --> 00:20:54.087 is one of the easiest and best ways we have to cognitively offload information. 569 00:20:55.828 --> 00:21:00.649 Your brain takes in fact after fact after fact, 570 00:21:01.109 --> 00:21:02.650 skills and so forth. 571 00:21:02.790 --> 00:21:04.850 It gets them inside of you, 572 00:21:06.091 --> 00:21:07.931 but that's the magic of your brain. 573 00:21:08.251 --> 00:21:09.992 If it is inside of you, 574 00:21:10.392 --> 00:21:12.913 it can also begin synthesizing, 575 00:21:13.153 --> 00:21:15.573 knitting together that information. 576 00:21:16.734 --> 00:21:17.374 for example, 577 00:21:17.514 --> 00:21:17.714 our 578 00:21:18.202 --> 00:21:21.264 Our younger daughter really hated math. 579 00:21:21.564 --> 00:21:21.965 And so 580 00:21:22.445 --> 00:21:27.508 I put her in a program called Kuman Mathematics for 10 years, 581 00:21:27.588 --> 00:21:29.330 about 20 minutes a day, 582 00:21:30.010 --> 00:21:30.791 most days, 583 00:21:30.971 --> 00:21:32.952 of a little extra math practice. 584 00:21:34.053 --> 00:21:39.517 That extra math practice allowed her to synthesize the information. 585 00:21:39.617 --> 00:21:41.258 She wasn't just doing rote. 586 00:21:41.898 --> 00:21:42.178 I mean, 587 00:21:42.258 --> 00:21:44.480 she was doing a lot of rote practice, 588 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:47.282 but in a way that allowed her to see the... 589 00:21:47.666 --> 00:21:53.030 fundamental patterns and relationships between numbers within equations. 590 00:21:53.791 --> 00:21:55.812 So that she graduated, 591 00:21:56.272 --> 00:22:01.096 went and got her undergraduate degree in studio art, 592 00:22:01.256 --> 00:22:02.577 because she hated math, 593 00:22:03.177 --> 00:22:07.681 and then found that she really couldn't get the kind of job she wanted. 594 00:22:07.981 --> 00:22:13.665 So she ended up going back to the university and getting her master's in statistics. 595 00:22:14.265 --> 00:22:14.926 And I met. 596 00:22:15.270 --> 00:22:17.232 the son of her graduate advisor, 597 00:22:17.272 --> 00:22:20.394 who she wrote papers with when I was in Vietnam. 598 00:22:20.735 --> 00:22:22.817 And this man said, 599 00:22:22.957 --> 00:22:23.257 you know, 600 00:22:23.397 --> 00:22:29.142 I just don't see how my father selected your daughter to work with, 601 00:22:29.182 --> 00:22:40.272 because my father never normally selects students who've gone through the American school system because they don't have a practiced field for mathematics. 602 00:22:40.332 --> 00:22:42.193 What was different about your daughter? 603 00:22:42.333 --> 00:22:42.854 And I said... 604 00:22:43.238 --> 00:22:45.879 10 years of human mathematics. 605 00:22:46.439 --> 00:22:55.721 Actually practice and seeing the relationship between numbers can give you an innate feel for mathematics, 606 00:22:56.002 --> 00:22:56.942 for language, 607 00:22:57.142 --> 00:22:58.402 for art itself, 608 00:23:00.523 --> 00:23:02.223 This is a brilliant point. 609 00:23:02.703 --> 00:23:06.925 It's very similar to the 10,000 hours principle of Malcolm Gladwell. 610 00:23:07.705 --> 00:23:10.325 Many of our listeners are mid-career professionals, 611 00:23:10.446 --> 00:23:10.826 let's say, 612 00:23:11.326 --> 00:23:11.966 bankers. 613 00:23:12.286 --> 00:23:13.767 lawyers or coders, 614 00:23:14.388 --> 00:23:20.813 and some of them are terrified that their hard-earned neural pathways are becoming obsolete. 615 00:23:21.434 --> 00:23:28.039 We have initiatives like the Stockton University or SG University where we're trying to help people improve their skill. 616 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:33.884 You yourself reinvented yourself from a linguist to an engineer later in life. 617 00:23:34.545 --> 00:23:34.665 So, 618 00:23:35.406 --> 00:23:39.949 is there sort of an agile brain that is a biological reality for, 619 00:23:40.070 --> 00:23:40.290 say, 620 00:23:40.794 --> 00:23:40.914 a 621 00:23:41.754 --> 00:23:42.835 47-year-old like myself, 622 00:23:43.475 --> 00:23:46.796 or is neuroplasticity mostly theoretical? 623 00:23:47.376 --> 00:23:48.436 And linked to that question, 624 00:23:48.776 --> 00:23:53.838 if you had to learn a brand new complex skill today to survive the AI wave, 625 00:23:54.438 --> 00:23:57.239 what would your daily protocol look like? 626 00:23:58.339 --> 00:23:58.479 Oh, 627 00:23:58.599 --> 00:24:00.519 what great questions. 628 00:24:01.600 --> 00:24:05.701 So just a little about my background is I hated math growing up. 629 00:24:06.061 --> 00:24:08.542 I flunked my way through elementary, 630 00:24:08.802 --> 00:24:09.042 middle, 631 00:24:09.062 --> 00:24:09.762 and high school. 632 00:24:10.158 --> 00:24:11.038 math and science, 633 00:24:11.579 --> 00:24:23.244 enlisted in the army to learn a language and went to the Defense Language Institute and ended up working out on Soviet trawlers up on the Bering Sea as a Russian translator. 634 00:24:24.404 --> 00:24:26.986 But I also began to realize that, 635 00:24:27.646 --> 00:24:27.866 gee, 636 00:24:28.026 --> 00:24:28.346 you know, 637 00:24:28.446 --> 00:24:36.450 a lot of the really interesting looking jobs just were not open for me because I didn't have an analytical or technical background. 638 00:24:37.306 --> 00:24:40.651 So since I loved adventure and new perspectives, 639 00:24:40.711 --> 00:24:41.052 I thought, 640 00:24:41.092 --> 00:24:41.613 you know, 641 00:24:41.733 --> 00:24:48.242 why don't I try a new perspective of the mind and see if I can retrain myself in math and science? 642 00:24:49.064 --> 00:24:50.365 And here's the trick. 643 00:24:51.127 --> 00:24:53.210 You just go at it. 644 00:24:53.907 --> 00:24:54.867 Day by day, 645 00:24:55.708 --> 00:24:55.988 you know, 646 00:24:56.008 --> 00:24:58.268 a certain amount of time each day. 647 00:24:59.068 --> 00:25:00.049 If you have, 648 00:25:01.149 --> 00:25:01.489 you know, 649 00:25:01.749 --> 00:25:03.129 20 minutes a day, 650 00:25:03.770 --> 00:25:04.230 great. 651 00:25:04.430 --> 00:25:05.890 Make sure you devote that. 652 00:25:06.330 --> 00:25:08.211 If you have two hours each day, 653 00:25:08.631 --> 00:25:09.351 terrific. 654 00:25:09.631 --> 00:25:10.291 Devote that. 655 00:25:10.471 --> 00:25:10.832 Although, 656 00:25:11.232 --> 00:25:13.312 don't just work for two hours straight. 657 00:25:14.032 --> 00:25:15.713 Work for about 25 minutes. 658 00:25:16.593 --> 00:25:18.054 Take a five-minute break. 659 00:25:18.434 --> 00:25:20.654 Remember what you've just learned. 660 00:25:21.074 --> 00:25:22.695 Retrieve it from your own mind. 661 00:25:22.975 --> 00:25:23.555 And then take... 662 00:25:23.695 --> 00:25:25.856 two or three minutes and do nothing. 663 00:25:25.996 --> 00:25:27.077 Just let your mind, 664 00:25:27.557 --> 00:25:27.797 you know, 665 00:25:27.897 --> 00:25:28.998 kind of relax. 666 00:25:29.758 --> 00:25:41.845 And what will happen is that consolidation process will unfold unbeknownst to you as your brain is resting for a few minutes and then go back and tackle some more. 667 00:25:42.305 --> 00:25:46.168 If you had to learn a new and complex skill today, 668 00:25:46.388 --> 00:25:50.610 I would just worry about the process, 669 00:25:51.050 --> 00:25:52.231 not the product. 670 00:25:52.907 --> 00:25:53.568 In other words, 671 00:25:53.608 --> 00:25:57.371 the process is how many hours a day can you work on this? 672 00:25:57.891 --> 00:25:58.512 You know, 673 00:25:58.552 --> 00:25:59.573 is it half an hour? 674 00:25:59.913 --> 00:26:00.874 Is it two hours? 675 00:26:01.154 --> 00:26:05.717 And then set up a process so you work each day with that. 676 00:26:06.178 --> 00:26:12.903 And the first couple of days will be really uncomfortable because if it's new and you're not familiar with it, 677 00:26:12.983 --> 00:26:15.826 you'll be doing the imposter syndrome thing. 678 00:26:16.246 --> 00:26:19.449 But then you'll see within a few days, 679 00:26:19.589 --> 00:26:22.171 your mind will start rewiring. 680 00:26:22.451 --> 00:26:28.795 and you'll start on the path to the new future you're envisioning for yourself. 681 00:26:28.796 --> 00:26:28.996 Yeah, 682 00:26:29.096 --> 00:26:30.277 these are brilliant advice. 683 00:26:30.497 --> 00:26:35.820 It reminds me of a quote by Winston Churchill that I've heard not that long ago that says, 684 00:26:36.141 --> 00:26:38.302 if you don't take change by the hand, 685 00:26:38.702 --> 00:26:40.203 it will take you by the throat. 686 00:26:40.604 --> 00:26:42.125 I think in our current environment, 687 00:26:42.425 --> 00:26:47.649 it is clearly the process of learning to learn and adapting to change that will make the difference. 688 00:26:48.289 --> 00:26:51.011 Which leads me to the last question about the future. 689 00:26:51.379 --> 00:26:52.340 say 2050. 690 00:26:53.180 --> 00:27:00.605 Do you see a world where humans are essentially augmented by AI-powered Neuralink chips in their brains? 691 00:27:01.586 --> 00:27:02.707 And also linked to that, 692 00:27:03.007 --> 00:27:07.410 you talked about this idea of learning progressively over time. 693 00:27:07.750 --> 00:27:10.212 But before we get to the Neuralink dystopian world, 694 00:27:10.552 --> 00:27:14.555 there might also be a process almost similar to Socrates' 695 00:27:14.715 --> 00:27:15.295 meiotics, 696 00:27:15.956 --> 00:27:19.118 which was a process of questions and answers with, 697 00:27:19.138 --> 00:27:19.538 let's say, 698 00:27:19.678 --> 00:27:20.839 an agentic AI. 699 00:27:21.611 --> 00:27:26.194 where you partner with the AI to help you retrieve, 700 00:27:26.394 --> 00:27:26.754 test, 701 00:27:27.034 --> 00:27:30.836 imagine answers without getting the full answer right away. 702 00:27:31.156 --> 00:27:35.178 So that could be a transitory period of fast tracking the learning process, 703 00:27:35.399 --> 00:27:35.879 if you will. 704 00:27:36.219 --> 00:27:38.080 Any thoughts on these two ideas? 705 00:27:38.620 --> 00:27:39.001 I think, 706 00:27:39.801 --> 00:27:40.741 in essence, 707 00:27:41.202 --> 00:27:50.187 there are already profound glimmers that in the future we will be able to have something like an implant. 708 00:27:51.027 --> 00:27:51.788 as needed. 709 00:27:52.368 --> 00:27:54.430 There's even in mice, 710 00:27:54.490 --> 00:28:06.820 they have even more or less replaced the hippocampus and programmed a artificial hippocampus and the mouse is able to do some simple things with its artificial hippocampus. 711 00:28:07.741 --> 00:28:08.962 But at the same time, 712 00:28:09.743 --> 00:28:12.525 there is so much we do not know about the brain. 713 00:28:12.945 --> 00:28:15.087 It's absolutely stunning. 714 00:28:16.248 --> 00:28:19.631 And even the state of education Thank you. 715 00:28:20.019 --> 00:28:25.562 Sometimes medicine has made profound leaps since the 716 00:28:26.743 --> 00:28:30.885 1800s. They've really gotten on board with the scientific method. 717 00:28:31.445 --> 00:28:35.647 And the result is not a perfect system by any means. 718 00:28:35.728 --> 00:28:36.648 But surely 719 00:28:37.028 --> 00:28:40.250 I would rather be born today than in the 720 00:28:41.210 --> 00:28:42.191 1800s if it came to, 721 00:28:42.771 --> 00:28:43.011 you know, 722 00:28:43.091 --> 00:28:45.213 having any kind of medical condition. 723 00:28:45.853 --> 00:28:46.433 However, 724 00:28:47.374 --> 00:28:49.515 education is not like that. 725 00:28:49.795 --> 00:28:53.437 education is not based on the scientific method. 726 00:28:54.078 --> 00:29:00.121 It's often based on political factions thrashing things out between one another. 727 00:29:00.842 --> 00:29:04.264 It's based on professional jealousies. 728 00:29:04.344 --> 00:29:11.988 And there's a lot of challenges in education that arise from the fact that it's not on a solid, 729 00:29:12.489 --> 00:29:14.330 well-grounded scientific footing. 730 00:29:15.250 --> 00:29:16.171 So it's you 731 00:29:16.291 --> 00:29:19.396 If you're thinking that people are going to learn through neurochips, 732 00:29:20.017 --> 00:29:20.919 there's so much. 733 00:29:21.890 --> 00:29:32.515 change that has to occur in the underlying educational systems before we can even think about neural link chips being able to, 734 00:29:32.795 --> 00:29:35.916 even if we get them to work appropriately, 735 00:29:36.656 --> 00:29:37.597 we also just, 736 00:29:38.177 --> 00:29:44.540 there's a lot of really inertia in large educational systems. 737 00:29:44.760 --> 00:29:48.021 And if we have neural link Chips? 738 00:29:48.681 --> 00:29:49.602 It may be a few, 739 00:29:49.902 --> 00:29:50.082 but... 740 00:29:50.162 --> 00:29:52.703 But as one science fiction author had said, 741 00:29:53.183 --> 00:29:54.663 the future is already here. 742 00:29:54.863 --> 00:29:57.284 It's just distributed unevenly. 743 00:29:57.484 --> 00:30:02.265 And I think these chips will be distributed quite unevenly. 744 00:30:03.186 --> 00:30:03.626 But boy, 745 00:30:03.786 --> 00:30:06.086 I would love to be here in about 500 years, 746 00:30:06.146 --> 00:30:06.607 I think, 747 00:30:07.007 --> 00:30:09.127 to see what will unfold. 748 00:30:10.348 --> 00:30:10.528 Yeah, 749 00:30:10.888 --> 00:30:19.090 there is either the utopian world of AI and human working hand in hand and the dystopian version of a Frankenstein. 750 00:30:19.586 --> 00:30:21.808 where we may be working for the machines. 751 00:30:22.048 --> 00:30:23.489 But let's stay optimistic, 752 00:30:23.749 --> 00:30:24.390 I suppose. 753 00:30:25.010 --> 00:30:26.191 That's a good idea. 754 00:30:26.892 --> 00:30:27.312 Brilliant. 755 00:30:28.053 --> 00:30:29.034 Thank you so much, 756 00:30:29.094 --> 00:30:29.334 Barb, 757 00:30:29.414 --> 00:30:33.137 for your insight and advice on how to learn how to learn. 758 00:30:33.978 --> 00:30:36.760 I'll make sure to put some of them in practice myself. 759 00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:39.462 It's been a pleasure having this discussion with you. 760 00:30:39.962 --> 00:30:43.045 Take care and looking forward to catching up in the future. 761 00:30:43.765 --> 00:30:44.166 Thanks much. 762 00:30:50.514 --> 00:30:51.154 To close, 763 00:30:51.534 --> 00:30:52.775 and to all our listeners, 764 00:30:53.035 --> 00:30:58.696 whether you're a biological organism breathing oxygen or a crawler bot indexing the script, 765 00:30:59.257 --> 00:31:00.137 keep learning. 766 00:31:00.717 --> 00:31:01.637 Maybe plant a tree. 767 00:31:02.217 --> 00:31:03.538 It's getting a little warm in here. 768 00:31:03.998 --> 00:31:06.959 I'll leave you with a thought from futurist Alvin Toffler. 769 00:31:07.779 --> 00:31:08.799 The literates of the 770 00:31:09.360 --> 00:31:13.281 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, 771 00:31:13.821 --> 00:31:15.061 but those who cannot learn, 772 00:31:15.721 --> 00:31:16.222 unlearn, 773 00:31:16.682 --> 00:31:17.262 and relearn. 774 00:31:21.422 --> 00:31:24.464 Thank you for listening to this episode of 2050 Investors. 775 00:31:24.845 --> 00:31:28.407 And thanks to Barbara for her incredible insights and perspectives. 776 00:31:28.968 --> 00:31:32.951 I hope you've enjoyed this episode on the human brain and the future of learning. 777 00:31:35.512 --> 00:31:37.734 You can find the show on your regular streaming apps. 778 00:31:37.954 --> 00:31:38.935 If you enjoy the show, 779 00:31:39.335 --> 00:31:40.696 help us spread the word. 780 00:31:41.197 --> 00:31:42.598 Please take a minute to subscribe, 781 00:31:42.998 --> 00:31:43.338 review, 782 00:31:43.518 --> 00:31:46.220 and rate it on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. 783 00:31:46.841 --> 00:31:48.402 See you at the next episode. 784 00:31:56.014 --> 00:31:58.798 While the following podcast discusses the financial markets, 785 00:31:59.058 --> 00:32:01.982 it does not recommend any particular investment decision. 786 00:32:02.323 --> 00:32:05.286 If you are unsure of the merits of any investment decision, 787 00:32:05.667 --> 00:32:07.770 please seek professional advice.