WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.572 --> 00:00:00.933 Susanna, 2 00:00:00.973 --> 00:00:03.075 we've been asking for like seven years now, 3 00:00:03.095 --> 00:00:04.056 we've been going to Mars. 4 00:00:04.096 --> 00:00:05.297 How's it going? 5 00:00:05.337 --> 00:00:05.597 Well, 6 00:00:06.198 --> 00:00:07.439 haven't you heard? 7 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:09.421 Now it's the moon that counts. 8 00:00:09.422 --> 00:00:09.541 No, 9 00:00:09.581 --> 00:00:11.262 here you are. 10 00:00:11.263 --> 00:00:21.572 The moon, 11 00:00:21.573 --> 00:00:21.752 then. 12 00:00:21.912 --> 00:00:24.875 Our closest neighbor in space. 13 00:00:25.816 --> 00:00:30.199 Where we actually landed people already in 1969. 14 00:00:30.200 --> 00:00:30.259 Yes, 15 00:00:30.260 --> 00:00:36.762 a total of 12 people went to the moon's surface between 1969 and 1972. 16 00:00:36.763 --> 00:00:41.185 And then it seemed like we completely lost interest and stopped going there. 17 00:00:41.186 --> 00:00:41.525 But now, 18 00:00:41.526 --> 00:00:42.726 about 10 years ago, 19 00:00:42.786 --> 00:00:47.568 there are plans to put people back on the moon again through the Artemis program. 20 00:00:47.608 --> 00:00:49.009 And now it's different. 21 00:00:49.249 --> 00:00:53.212 Now we're not just talking about going there and putting up a flag. 22 00:00:53.252 --> 00:00:53.372 No. 23 00:00:54.152 --> 00:00:55.773 Now we're talking about stopping, 24 00:00:56.314 --> 00:00:56.734 building, 25 00:00:57.094 --> 00:01:01.657 living and using the moon as a springboard further out in the solar system. 26 00:01:01.777 --> 00:01:05.900 The Artemis program is in full swing with new rockets, 27 00:01:06.100 --> 00:01:06.841 new capsules, 28 00:01:07.061 --> 00:01:09.943 new landers and new ambitions. 29 00:01:10.624 --> 00:01:17.308 So even if the coming Artemis 2 will not land on the moon but just do a flyby, 30 00:01:17.348 --> 00:01:22.432 it is the closest we have come to the moon with people for a long time. 31 00:01:23.312 --> 00:01:26.473 So exciting My name is Susanna Lewenhaupt. 32 00:01:26.553 --> 00:01:27.714 My name is Marcus Pettersson. 33 00:01:28.214 --> 00:01:28.994 And you're listening to 34 00:01:29.395 --> 00:01:30.855 Harvi Åk till Mars 1. 35 00:01:30.875 --> 00:01:42.160 We're standing right in front of Artemis 2, 36 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:42.400 which, 37 00:01:42.420 --> 00:01:43.740 according to plan, 38 00:01:43.800 --> 00:01:46.582 will fly around the moon now in just a few weeks. 39 00:01:47.202 --> 00:01:49.663 We'll see exactly when it will be. 40 00:01:49.683 --> 00:01:52.144 The launch was set in February from the beginning. 41 00:01:52.484 --> 00:01:54.946 men flyttades på grund av tekniska problem. 42 00:01:55.466 --> 00:01:57.969 Så nu är siktet inställt på mars istället. 43 00:01:58.429 --> 00:01:58.549 Ja, 44 00:01:58.769 --> 00:01:59.410 månaden alltså. 45 00:01:59.970 --> 00:02:00.090 Ja, 46 00:02:00.711 --> 00:02:02.692 och när väl Reed Wiseman, 47 00:02:02.912 --> 00:02:03.673 Victor Glover, 48 00:02:03.793 --> 00:02:07.957 Christina Cook och Jeremy Hansen sätter sig i raketen och åker, 49 00:02:08.377 --> 00:02:13.841 så blir det alltså den första bemannade månfärden på över 50 år. 50 00:02:14.702 --> 00:02:17.805 Så även om de inte ska landa så är det här stort. 51 00:02:18.325 --> 00:02:21.968 Så hur ser då planerna för månen ut framöver? 52 00:02:22.888 --> 00:02:25.170 When does the first landing of people on the Moon happen? 53 00:02:25.210 --> 00:02:29.493 And what does the Moon program mean for our ambitions to reach Mars? 54 00:02:29.494 --> 00:02:29.613 Yes, 55 00:02:30.013 --> 00:02:30.734 the planet, 56 00:02:30.754 --> 00:02:31.074 that is. 57 00:02:31.574 --> 00:02:32.935 Christer Fuglesang, 58 00:02:33.356 --> 00:02:33.916 astronaut, 59 00:02:34.016 --> 00:02:37.519 professor of spaceflight at KTH and space advisor at SAV. 60 00:02:38.079 --> 00:02:41.261 Let's start like this. 61 00:02:42.482 --> 00:02:45.204 Artemis is NASA's, 62 00:02:45.485 --> 00:02:45.785 let's say, 63 00:02:46.745 --> 00:02:48.687 current Moon program. 64 00:02:50.328 --> 00:02:52.550 It's actually the case that in Greek mythology, 65 00:02:53.390 --> 00:02:54.811 Artemis is Apollo's sister. 66 00:02:54.952 --> 00:03:02.057 One of the stated goals is that Artemis will be the first woman and the first non-white person on the planet. 67 00:03:02.737 --> 00:03:04.319 It's an international program, 68 00:03:04.359 --> 00:03:05.420 which is not Apollo. 69 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:06.801 So that's very interesting. 70 00:03:07.081 --> 00:03:10.123 But it's Apollo plus plus, 71 00:03:10.143 --> 00:03:10.683 one could say. 72 00:03:11.504 --> 00:03:16.248 And the reason we're talking about this now is because a few weeks ago... 73 00:03:17.048 --> 00:03:19.751 After a few weeks 74 00:03:20.331 --> 00:03:23.854 Artemis 2 will be sent away. 75 00:03:23.894 --> 00:03:26.156 What is that? 76 00:03:26.317 --> 00:03:27.898 Artemis 2 is Apollo 77 00:03:28.518 --> 00:03:34.904 8, the first manned space ship after Apollo that will travel around the Moon. 78 00:03:35.605 --> 00:03:36.666 They will not land on the Moon, 79 00:03:36.667 --> 00:03:38.747 they will not even go into the runway on the Moon. 80 00:03:39.388 --> 00:03:43.672 But they travel around the Moon and come back. 81 00:03:44.904 --> 00:03:52.069 The goal with this flight is to prove that all technical things work as they should. 82 00:03:52.089 --> 00:03:56.052 They did an unmanned flight three years ago, 83 00:03:56.092 --> 00:04:00.395 but now they want to do it in a manned plane. 84 00:04:00.435 --> 00:04:02.576 What is it that makes it so? 85 00:04:02.577 --> 00:04:02.936 Like you, 86 00:04:02.956 --> 00:04:05.678 it has been a few years and now when you are going to send it out, 87 00:04:05.679 --> 00:04:07.099 is there something wrong with it? 88 00:04:07.100 --> 00:04:08.660 A little like days before, 89 00:04:08.740 --> 00:04:11.042 is that something you should have known about? 90 00:04:11.702 --> 00:04:12.182 And of course, 91 00:04:12.202 --> 00:04:14.324 the space color program that he sent up. 92 00:04:14.464 --> 00:04:16.665 I think that every other month, 93 00:04:16.666 --> 00:04:21.368 I rarely went a round trip when it was planned. 94 00:04:21.468 --> 00:04:24.049 It was a technical problem, 95 00:04:24.169 --> 00:04:26.071 weather problems. 96 00:04:26.091 --> 00:04:28.212 So this is nothing unusual. 97 00:04:29.412 --> 00:04:33.114 Then it gets harder when you don't do it so often. 98 00:04:33.134 --> 00:04:38.758 This is only the second time you send up the Jet Rocket Space Loan System SLS. 99 00:04:39.978 --> 00:04:41.839 And that was three years ago last. 100 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:47.604 One of the problems with the Artemis program is that it has an SLS rocket as the base. 101 00:04:48.365 --> 00:04:55.511 It's so expensive that you can only send one every other year. 102 00:04:55.512 --> 00:04:56.011 That's the problem. 103 00:04:56.111 --> 00:04:58.113 I think the program will change. 104 00:04:58.153 --> 00:05:00.695 It's not sustainable with ARS. 105 00:05:00.696 --> 00:05:01.136 Exactly, 106 00:05:01.176 --> 00:05:02.357 tell us more about that. 107 00:05:02.377 --> 00:05:03.378 We're talking SLS, 108 00:05:04.038 --> 00:05:08.602 flying for the second time now, 109 00:05:08.642 --> 00:05:10.624 and is not as reusable as Starship. 110 00:05:11.833 --> 00:05:13.394 How did you come to this? 111 00:05:13.414 --> 00:05:15.855 And how are you going to work forward? 112 00:05:15.915 --> 00:05:17.435 If we continue on what you were talking about. 113 00:05:17.436 --> 00:05:21.477 How you ended up where you are is in general political. 114 00:05:21.478 --> 00:05:23.598 When the space ferry was unloaded, 115 00:05:23.658 --> 00:05:29.120 the politicians in the states that contributed to the space ferry wanted to keep their jobs. 116 00:05:29.960 --> 00:05:36.523 And then they put together a program that could use a lot of components in the space ferry. 117 00:05:36.563 --> 00:05:40.425 And it's not effective. 118 00:05:41.309 --> 00:05:44.150 NASA would have liked to change this, 119 00:05:44.170 --> 00:05:46.270 but it was politically driven. 120 00:05:47.051 --> 00:05:49.191 So that's why I think what's going to happen, 121 00:05:49.351 --> 00:05:55.573 and Trump actually announced it in the beginning when he took office, 122 00:05:55.653 --> 00:05:59.934 but it won't be more than at least three, 123 00:05:59.935 --> 00:06:04.055 maybe at least four that are with SLS. 124 00:06:04.815 --> 00:06:06.976 You will start using new rockets, 125 00:06:07.016 --> 00:06:09.017 and that's mainly and other than SpaceX 126 00:06:09.617 --> 00:06:10.137 Starship. 127 00:06:10.829 --> 00:06:13.931 That can take as much space as SLS. 128 00:06:13.991 --> 00:06:14.211 Or 129 00:06:15.632 --> 00:06:16.293 Blue Origin, 130 00:06:16.393 --> 00:06:19.395 Jeff Bezos company's new rocket called New Glenn, 131 00:06:19.396 --> 00:06:21.256 that can take about half of what 132 00:06:21.716 --> 00:06:22.677 SLS can take to space. 133 00:06:22.717 --> 00:06:27.320 That can be a good contribution to the Moon program. 134 00:06:28.221 --> 00:06:28.741 And you, 135 00:06:28.761 --> 00:06:30.082 SLS 136 00:06:31.443 --> 00:06:32.484 Artemis 2, 137 00:06:32.584 --> 00:06:35.346 are going to fly around the Moon. 138 00:06:35.347 --> 00:06:38.968 When will we see Artemis land on the Moon? 139 00:06:38.969 --> 00:06:39.088 Yes. 140 00:06:40.313 --> 00:06:43.654 That's a good question. 141 00:06:43.655 --> 00:06:49.057 On paper it's 27. 142 00:06:49.257 --> 00:06:51.378 In reality it won't be 28, 143 00:06:51.518 --> 00:06:51.818 maybe 144 00:06:52.198 --> 00:06:56.800 29. The bottle neck here is actually not SEDS, 145 00:06:56.880 --> 00:07:01.282 but it's the car that you should use as a moon lander. 146 00:07:02.802 --> 00:07:05.944 And it's actually a Starship, 147 00:07:05.984 --> 00:07:08.005 a version of Starship. 148 00:07:09.205 --> 00:07:11.646 It has to be qualified first. 149 00:07:11.666 --> 00:07:11.866 First, 150 00:07:11.886 --> 00:07:13.647 this has to be done without a crew. 151 00:07:13.907 --> 00:07:18.209 Starship has not even made a totally successful flight yet. 152 00:07:20.110 --> 00:07:25.192 And it is enormously oversized for being a moon lander. 153 00:07:25.672 --> 00:07:29.214 So you will have to check up on Starship in the ground. 154 00:07:29.215 --> 00:07:31.015 And then you will have to check up on the ship. 155 00:07:31.035 --> 00:07:34.997 8 to 12 appreciates that it is a tank vehicle. 156 00:07:35.057 --> 00:07:35.817 To refuel it. 157 00:07:36.197 --> 00:07:36.517 Starship, 158 00:07:36.518 --> 00:07:38.098 so that they can go on to the moon. 159 00:07:38.198 --> 00:07:39.538 They put up a track around the moon. 160 00:07:39.578 --> 00:07:41.618 And then comes this Orion, 161 00:07:41.679 --> 00:07:44.319 which is sent up with an SLS rocket. 162 00:07:45.139 --> 00:07:46.580 There with four astronauts. 163 00:07:46.581 --> 00:07:47.880 They dock with each other. 164 00:07:48.020 --> 00:07:49.441 Two astronauts go over to 165 00:07:49.961 --> 00:07:52.761 Starship, which then lands on the moon. 166 00:07:52.801 --> 00:07:53.582 And it's huge. 167 00:07:53.602 --> 00:07:58.703 It's actually a completely insane hulk, 168 00:07:58.763 --> 00:08:02.644 which has historically been like this. 169 00:08:02.645 --> 00:08:04.105 We can talk about that in a program. 170 00:08:04.106 --> 00:08:04.185 Yes, 171 00:08:04.186 --> 00:08:05.625 exactly. 172 00:08:06.897 --> 00:08:08.758 But we take a little of it now. 173 00:08:09.018 --> 00:08:10.819 Has this been the plan all the time? 174 00:08:11.219 --> 00:08:16.341 That Artemis would not land with SLS but that you relied on ANGRA, 175 00:08:16.361 --> 00:08:17.742 for example in this case SpaceX? 176 00:08:17.962 --> 00:08:18.302 Yes, 177 00:08:18.303 --> 00:08:20.263 that was the plan when we started Artemis. 178 00:08:20.303 --> 00:08:23.724 We have to find a moon lander. 179 00:08:23.764 --> 00:08:26.305 And then we went out after a while. 180 00:08:26.425 --> 00:08:30.747 Artemis program officially started in 2017. 181 00:08:30.748 --> 00:08:33.308 So we went out after a while and said we need a moon lander. 182 00:08:33.309 --> 00:08:35.089 Which company can do that? 183 00:08:35.825 --> 00:08:37.386 And we need it very early. 184 00:08:37.406 --> 00:08:40.449 When we started in 2017, 185 00:08:40.450 --> 00:08:42.871 we were supposed to land on the 186 00:08:43.231 --> 00:08:43.752 24th of June. 187 00:08:43.753 --> 00:08:49.697 And the only proposal that came in that could possibly last for a certain amount of time was 188 00:08:50.057 --> 00:08:52.079 SpaceX with a user-starch. 189 00:08:52.119 --> 00:08:53.780 In the last 190 00:08:54.821 --> 00:08:56.663 10-20 years, 191 00:08:56.743 --> 00:09:01.387 NASA has normally tried to develop two parallel contracts. 192 00:09:01.388 --> 00:09:02.648 to develop. 193 00:09:02.888 --> 00:09:04.189 And you would like to give a... 194 00:09:04.209 --> 00:09:04.329 to 195 00:09:05.170 --> 00:09:05.930 Blue Origin. 196 00:09:05.970 --> 00:09:07.472 But you didn't have money for that. 197 00:09:08.713 --> 00:09:11.155 But then you got a little more money. 198 00:09:11.156 --> 00:09:16.279 So now there are months that get money from NASA to be developed, 199 00:09:16.379 --> 00:09:16.999 which is built by 200 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:17.940 Blue Origin. 201 00:09:18.921 --> 00:09:19.862 But as I said, 202 00:09:19.863 --> 00:09:29.890 if you had from the beginning built up a program consistently in some way, 203 00:09:29.891 --> 00:09:33.573 then you would have done it in a completely different way than the Apollo program was. 204 00:09:34.741 --> 00:09:36.242 And if you go back in time, 205 00:09:36.302 --> 00:09:37.683 you can say that it's Obama's fault. 206 00:09:37.763 --> 00:09:42.306 Because Obama forbade NASA to land on the moon. 207 00:09:42.326 --> 00:09:43.848 So they didn't have to do anything. 208 00:09:44.008 --> 00:09:45.268 Then Trump comes in and says, 209 00:09:45.269 --> 00:09:45.989 now we're going to the moon. 210 00:09:45.990 --> 00:09:46.950 Then they had to do what they had to do. 211 00:09:46.990 --> 00:09:50.332 But there was absolutely nothing that had to do with the moon landing. 212 00:09:50.333 --> 00:09:51.673 Then they went after it. 213 00:09:51.693 --> 00:09:54.935 And then it went wrong in a bad way, 214 00:09:54.936 --> 00:09:55.635 I must say. 215 00:09:55.675 --> 00:09:55.796 The 216 00:09:57.056 --> 00:09:58.557 Chinese don't do that, 217 00:09:58.558 --> 00:09:58.938 I can tell you. 218 00:09:58.939 --> 00:09:59.058 No, 219 00:09:59.558 --> 00:10:02.280 we're going to come back to China soon. 220 00:10:02.281 --> 00:10:03.581 I'm going to ask a few questions about that. 221 00:10:04.085 --> 00:10:04.446 First, 222 00:10:04.607 --> 00:10:10.648 just this week Elon Musk went out with the idea that we should 223 00:10:11.370 --> 00:10:13.591 They're not going to end their mission on Mars, 224 00:10:13.731 --> 00:10:17.612 but they're going to put the power on the moon. 225 00:10:18.692 --> 00:10:22.713 Are SpaceX working with that only within the Artemis program, 226 00:10:22.714 --> 00:10:24.494 or do they have their own plans? 227 00:10:24.554 --> 00:10:25.814 They definitely have their own plans. 228 00:10:25.834 --> 00:10:31.055 They haven't developed many plans yet, 229 00:10:31.095 --> 00:10:36.337 but this is a very solid approach. 230 00:10:36.338 --> 00:10:40.718 The great development in space... 231 00:10:41.158 --> 00:10:42.279 I would say that it will be, 232 00:10:42.280 --> 00:10:45.041 during the time here, 233 00:10:45.382 --> 00:10:46.363 soon on the Moon. 234 00:10:46.364 --> 00:10:51.867 To be able to develop opportunities to build things on the Moon, 235 00:10:52.027 --> 00:10:54.329 which you can then send up from space, 236 00:10:54.330 --> 00:10:54.530 that is, 237 00:10:54.570 --> 00:10:55.550 from Moon material. 238 00:10:55.570 --> 00:11:01.616 Then you will be able to save a lot of money compared to sending things up from Earth. 239 00:11:01.617 --> 00:11:08.742 And that's what I think Elon Musk and SpaceX see. 240 00:11:09.486 --> 00:11:17.071 They have recently announced that they want to have up to one million satellites around the world for data centers. 241 00:11:17.072 --> 00:11:20.313 If you start building a lot of them on the moon instead, 242 00:11:20.353 --> 00:11:21.754 it will be cheaper. 243 00:11:21.755 --> 00:11:24.016 We don't know yet where all the possibilities are on the moon, 244 00:11:24.156 --> 00:11:26.157 that's why we haven't been there yet. 245 00:11:26.918 --> 00:11:33.982 But we had many estimates that there will be so many opportunities there and then you want to be part of the race. 246 00:11:33.983 --> 00:11:37.365 The other reason is that they feel the pressure from 247 00:11:37.965 --> 00:11:38.766 NASA and USA. 248 00:11:39.306 --> 00:11:39.886 What the hell, 249 00:11:39.926 --> 00:11:43.729 do we have to get to the moon as soon as possible? 250 00:11:43.830 --> 00:11:50.975 So maybe there are extra resources to talk about it in that way. 251 00:11:50.976 --> 00:11:51.115 For 252 00:11:51.856 --> 00:11:52.917 Europe's part, 253 00:11:53.257 --> 00:11:55.799 how does our mix look now? 254 00:11:55.800 --> 00:12:01.003 Because we are part of Artemis in different ways. 255 00:12:01.004 --> 00:12:01.503 But as we say, 256 00:12:01.504 --> 00:12:04.426 the conditions change a little back and forth, 257 00:12:04.427 --> 00:12:04.766 at least. 258 00:12:05.150 --> 00:12:09.733 So what are our active parts in the Artemis program now? 259 00:12:09.734 --> 00:12:09.993 Above all, 260 00:12:09.994 --> 00:12:10.213 it is 261 00:12:10.593 --> 00:12:15.136 Europe that stands for the so-called service module to the Orion capsule, 262 00:12:15.137 --> 00:12:20.139 the one that comes to the astronauts who go up with SLS and then fly away to the moon. 263 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:21.680 It is built by Europe. 264 00:12:21.740 --> 00:12:26.182 It is the development of a cargo ship that Europe built for the 265 00:12:26.703 --> 00:12:27.703 International Space Station. 266 00:12:27.983 --> 00:12:32.366 So there we are a very integrated part and a very important part of the program. 267 00:12:32.694 --> 00:12:34.175 This is a big difference from Apollo, 268 00:12:34.235 --> 00:12:35.236 which was only clean. 269 00:12:35.237 --> 00:12:36.737 This is Europe from the beginning. 270 00:12:36.738 --> 00:12:37.718 And not just Europe, 271 00:12:37.818 --> 00:12:39.018 it's Canada and Japan. 272 00:12:39.499 --> 00:12:40.399 In the heart of the program, 273 00:12:40.400 --> 00:12:43.682 it also goes into the construction of a space station around the Moon. 274 00:12:43.722 --> 00:12:48.905 And you will do that before you start building some kind of ground station on the Moon. 275 00:12:49.486 --> 00:12:50.266 Lunar Gateway. 276 00:12:50.927 --> 00:12:51.347 And there, 277 00:12:51.427 --> 00:12:56.170 Europe is already building some modules to that space station. 278 00:12:56.271 --> 00:12:58.972 But it's not as big as ISS. 279 00:12:59.493 --> 00:13:01.114 It will not be permanently commissioned. 280 00:13:01.546 --> 00:13:04.907 But it will also be an important part of the whole program. 281 00:13:04.908 --> 00:13:07.809 And that's Europe more or less. 282 00:13:07.810 --> 00:13:08.329 It's a bit sad, 283 00:13:08.330 --> 00:13:10.910 but there have been plans to have a moon landing and so on, 284 00:13:11.130 --> 00:13:12.231 but not for Venice, 285 00:13:12.232 --> 00:13:12.871 but for November. 286 00:13:12.911 --> 00:13:23.055 And it was actually quite boring that there was a very successful so-called Administrative Council for ESA in November. 287 00:13:23.155 --> 00:13:25.616 That's when you put the budget for ESA three years ahead. 288 00:13:25.896 --> 00:13:27.197 A lot of money came in, 289 00:13:27.377 --> 00:13:29.398 many projects got more money than you asked for. 290 00:13:29.930 --> 00:13:34.793 But the man who was in charge of the space program actually got less money than you know. 291 00:13:35.034 --> 00:13:35.994 One of the few who got it. 292 00:13:35.995 --> 00:13:39.997 And another little comment in the context of. 293 00:13:39.998 --> 00:13:45.141 A few weeks ago there was a kind of space policy conference in Brussels. 294 00:13:46.201 --> 00:13:49.524 And there was a big panel debate. 295 00:13:49.544 --> 00:13:51.545 And Esas general director, 296 00:13:51.685 --> 00:13:52.206 Ars Bachel, 297 00:13:52.226 --> 00:13:53.647 said at one point. 298 00:13:53.687 --> 00:13:54.087 Yes, 299 00:13:54.088 --> 00:13:55.288 I think it's bad and so boring. 300 00:13:56.489 --> 00:13:56.989 China, 301 00:13:57.289 --> 00:13:57.990 Eruningen. 302 00:13:58.730 --> 00:14:02.751 own manned space program to the moon and we have nothing in Europe, 303 00:14:02.831 --> 00:14:03.511 I think that's bad. 304 00:14:03.931 --> 00:14:06.112 So it's not ESA that's the problem, 305 00:14:06.132 --> 00:14:10.853 it's the politicians in Europe that don't give the right money to ESA. 306 00:14:10.893 --> 00:14:13.834 You mention Lunar Gateway here, 307 00:14:13.974 --> 00:14:15.655 when will it be sent up, 308 00:14:15.675 --> 00:14:16.155 the first parts, 309 00:14:16.156 --> 00:14:16.815 do we know that? 310 00:14:16.835 --> 00:14:20.396 The first part is going to be sent up with 311 00:14:20.756 --> 00:14:22.557 Artemis IV, 312 00:14:22.577 --> 00:14:27.118 which on paper today is perhaps to be released sometime in 2028. 313 00:14:28.446 --> 00:14:34.449 But it's hard to know what to believe and when it can happen. 314 00:14:34.450 --> 00:14:38.831 I would say it's not even impossible that you will change the order of Artemis 3 and Artemis 4. 315 00:14:38.832 --> 00:14:42.552 You send up the first module to 316 00:14:43.773 --> 00:14:51.836 Lunar Gator before you send up the first crew to land on the moon because there are no moon landers. 317 00:14:51.837 --> 00:14:55.438 But then you have to think that Artemis... 318 00:14:55.858 --> 00:14:56.038 four, 319 00:14:56.118 --> 00:14:56.239 five, 320 00:14:56.439 --> 00:14:56.659 six, 321 00:14:56.699 --> 00:15:01.986 I should basically send parts to the new gate even with other archers if there is not 322 00:15:02.687 --> 00:15:08.054 I'm a little unsure but that kind of new glen can also contribute to sending parts to this 323 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:15.425 And then the Artemis aircraft partly brought stuff to Lunar Gateway, 324 00:15:15.465 --> 00:15:21.210 but also planned to land on the Moon and go down for a while. 325 00:15:21.290 --> 00:15:27.075 Then the leading question, 326 00:15:27.115 --> 00:15:27.315 will 327 00:15:28.015 --> 00:15:30.297 Artemis come first with the Moon to the Moon? 328 00:15:30.337 --> 00:15:31.959 You have mentioned China here now, 329 00:15:32.259 --> 00:15:37.944 how do other countries look outside of the Artemis cooperation? 330 00:15:39.605 --> 00:15:41.366 China is the most obvious. 331 00:15:41.367 --> 00:15:48.810 They have a very good track record of doing things in space when they have said that they should do it in space. 332 00:15:48.850 --> 00:15:56.374 They have a space station that has been permanently occupied since 1922. 333 00:15:56.414 --> 00:15:59.436 They have about a number of moon landers. 334 00:15:59.437 --> 00:16:00.976 They have taken things from Akron, 335 00:16:01.076 --> 00:16:03.038 the back side of the moon had not been done before. 336 00:16:03.078 --> 00:16:07.160 They say that they will have people on the moon by 2030. 337 00:16:08.488 --> 00:16:14.070 They have even shown tests on moon landers and new rockets and so on. 338 00:16:14.071 --> 00:16:19.012 So there is no reason to believe that they would not land on the moon with people in 2030. 339 00:16:19.013 --> 00:16:22.174 Maybe by 2029. 340 00:16:22.294 --> 00:16:23.914 If they see a chance to come before, 341 00:16:23.915 --> 00:16:25.175 I think they will try to take it. 342 00:16:25.235 --> 00:16:27.076 At the same time, 343 00:16:27.077 --> 00:16:30.317 it is very uncertain how the 344 00:16:31.517 --> 00:16:32.658 Artemis program looks. 345 00:16:33.958 --> 00:16:36.179 My guess is that 346 00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:37.700 Artemis will come before. 347 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:42.544 But I think China will have a much more regular program. 348 00:16:42.564 --> 00:16:43.865 I haven't seen their plans, 349 00:16:43.905 --> 00:16:45.927 but I would believe it. 350 00:16:46.587 --> 00:16:51.151 Artemis program is one flight with people to the moon every other year. 351 00:16:51.231 --> 00:16:57.496 It's not a good program to do in that way. 352 00:16:57.497 --> 00:16:58.237 But if you do it then, 353 00:16:58.297 --> 00:16:59.678 use Starship instead, 354 00:16:59.758 --> 00:17:03.261 then it will be better. 355 00:17:03.262 --> 00:17:07.284 Probably two moon bases will be built. 356 00:17:07.304 --> 00:17:09.745 from the beginning of the 20-30s. 357 00:17:10.765 --> 00:17:13.267 China has already named its 358 00:17:13.727 --> 00:17:15.728 International Lunar Research Station. 359 00:17:15.729 --> 00:17:18.009 They have already named it International. 360 00:17:19.889 --> 00:17:20.270 Russia, 361 00:17:20.390 --> 00:17:21.050 for example, 362 00:17:21.051 --> 00:17:24.211 is one of the countries that has written a co-operation paper for this. 363 00:17:24.251 --> 00:17:26.732 There are two groups. 364 00:17:27.152 --> 00:17:35.636 Most people consider the best area to be in is the South. 365 00:17:35.676 --> 00:17:36.236 pool, 366 00:17:36.256 --> 00:17:36.837 among other things, 367 00:17:36.857 --> 00:17:41.160 because there you can get craters, 368 00:17:41.161 --> 00:17:41.681 chambers, 369 00:17:41.682 --> 00:17:50.848 you can get sunlight almost all the time and then get electric solar panels and a lot of other benefits. 370 00:17:51.268 --> 00:17:51.628 And then 371 00:17:51.968 --> 00:17:54.971 Amritsar is worried that the Chinese will be the first to take the best place. 372 00:17:55.011 --> 00:17:57.453 You don't have the right to own land on the moon, 373 00:17:57.454 --> 00:18:01.536 but you don't have the right to disturb someone else who is doing something in the room. 374 00:18:01.796 --> 00:18:03.017 If someone comes here and says, 375 00:18:03.018 --> 00:18:03.397 I'm here, 376 00:18:03.398 --> 00:18:08.059 don't come close because then you land and throw up a lot of smoke on us. 377 00:18:08.060 --> 00:18:14.661 So you can in practice usurp or take a certain area. 378 00:18:14.681 --> 00:18:22.465 So this is a pretty big geopolitical thing that will definitely be exciting to see how it develops. 379 00:18:26.206 --> 00:18:26.506 Cool 380 00:18:26.966 --> 00:18:28.547 Soon Mojo on the moon Yes, 381 00:18:28.548 --> 00:18:28.667 but... 382 00:18:30.828 --> 00:18:32.630 Åka till molen är en sak, 383 00:18:32.631 --> 00:18:36.193 men att överleva där är en helt annan. 384 00:18:36.873 --> 00:18:39.776 För om vi menar allvar med att stanna längre perioder, 385 00:18:40.236 --> 00:18:43.059 bygga molnbaser och till och med städer, 386 00:18:43.499 --> 00:18:46.282 då räcker det inte med raketer och landare. 387 00:18:46.782 --> 00:18:46.942 Nej, 388 00:18:47.123 --> 00:18:48.844 vi måste kunna producera luft, 389 00:18:49.004 --> 00:18:49.745 rena vatten, 390 00:18:50.085 --> 00:18:53.508 hantera avfall och kanske till och med odla vår egen mat. 391 00:18:54.209 --> 00:18:57.452 Allt i en miljö som verkligen inte vill ha oss där. 392 00:18:58.232 --> 00:19:01.154 And then we have to actually learn how to do all this. 393 00:19:01.835 --> 00:19:05.737 Sharina Tzindeliani is founder of and CEO of 394 00:19:06.358 --> 00:19:08.279 Tita Global Space Academy, 395 00:19:08.820 --> 00:19:15.504 an education focus completely focused on human spaceflight and life-saving systems. 396 00:19:15.505 --> 00:19:16.185 That is, 397 00:19:16.405 --> 00:19:19.748 everything that is required to keep people alive on the moon and Mars. 398 00:19:20.048 --> 00:19:21.189 Brilliant 399 00:19:21.909 --> 00:19:22.590 So, Sharina, 400 00:19:23.150 --> 00:19:25.772 what is Tita Global Space Academy? 401 00:19:26.333 --> 00:19:40.519 TITA Global Space Academy is the company that is specifically dedicated to provide a unique niche and undervalued education in all areas related to human spaceflight. 402 00:19:40.899 --> 00:19:54.425 Basically anything that contributes directly to keeping people alive and in well-being in extraterrestrial environments or basically on any other planet apart from Earth is... 403 00:19:54.765 --> 00:19:55.726 what we are aiming to do, 404 00:19:56.707 --> 00:20:01.291 whether it's life support that basically contributes with water, 405 00:20:01.431 --> 00:20:05.434 food and air or space resource utilization, 406 00:20:05.774 --> 00:20:08.777 which includes the oxygen generation, 407 00:20:09.497 --> 00:20:13.040 water recovery from ice or propellant development locally. 408 00:20:13.541 --> 00:20:17.884 And you need to think not only how to send people, 409 00:20:18.485 --> 00:20:19.846 but also how to sustain them. 410 00:20:21.247 --> 00:20:22.348 Space manufacturing, 411 00:20:22.488 --> 00:20:22.909 one of the... 412 00:20:23.489 --> 00:20:29.354 Very interesting businesses and in a couple of years will be one of the main businesses probably in LEO, 413 00:20:29.734 --> 00:20:31.756 considering the commercial space stations coming. 414 00:20:32.636 --> 00:20:33.517 Space medicine, 415 00:20:33.797 --> 00:20:35.659 very underrated direction. 416 00:20:36.099 --> 00:20:36.339 I mean, 417 00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:36.680 Markus, 418 00:20:36.700 --> 00:20:42.644 you are in a good relationship with astronauts and perhaps you hear how their health, 419 00:20:42.705 --> 00:20:44.346 both mental and physical, 420 00:20:44.386 --> 00:20:47.368 is affected just by being in LEO for a couple of months. 421 00:20:47.829 --> 00:20:52.973 But no one knows what will happen to health if a person stays for years. 422 00:20:54.073 --> 00:20:56.114 And it's important to prepare, 423 00:20:56.314 --> 00:20:58.174 to provide the preventive medicine, 424 00:20:58.515 --> 00:20:59.435 to diagnose, 425 00:20:59.955 --> 00:21:03.516 to provide some help in emergency situations. 426 00:21:03.576 --> 00:21:17.700 So anything that keeps people alive and well and fit in lunar on Martian surface is what life support is and what we are intending to teach. 427 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:21.001 So what exactly is it that you want to do? 428 00:21:21.461 --> 00:21:28.523 So basically we aim to prepare five modules that will be environmental control and life support system, 429 00:21:28.823 --> 00:21:30.303 in space resource dualization, 430 00:21:31.724 --> 00:21:33.424 autonomous navigation and AI, 431 00:21:33.544 --> 00:21:35.045 human factors and medicine, 432 00:21:35.245 --> 00:21:37.105 and manufacturing and 3D printing. 433 00:21:38.186 --> 00:21:41.466 Right now we started developing our first course in 434 00:21:41.806 --> 00:21:47.928 E-Class which is intended to launch by the end of this year and then ISRU will follow etc. 435 00:21:48.788 --> 00:21:50.929 We will also have four different tires. 436 00:21:51.545 --> 00:21:54.047 or four different levels in each module, 437 00:21:54.547 --> 00:21:55.888 which will be foundation, 438 00:21:56.668 --> 00:21:57.248 professional, 439 00:21:57.348 --> 00:21:57.769 expert, 440 00:21:57.829 --> 00:21:58.609 and corporate, 441 00:21:59.089 --> 00:22:01.451 so that we can fit any background. 442 00:22:01.931 --> 00:22:05.073 The corporate packages will be on site, 443 00:22:05.133 --> 00:22:11.216 and right now we are in agreement with the Arctic business to provide us with a location in Luleå, 444 00:22:11.217 --> 00:22:13.197 but maybe in future also in Kiruna, 445 00:22:13.698 --> 00:22:15.359 which is a strategic move for us, 446 00:22:15.419 --> 00:22:19.261 because then we also have possibility to demonstrate in general Swedish. 447 00:22:20.073 --> 00:22:27.515 Sweden's capacity in terms of a human spaceflight with the S-Range being their universities and companies located in the northern side of Sweden. 448 00:22:27.755 --> 00:22:31.256 So the course itself is not part of any university or so? 449 00:22:31.996 --> 00:22:32.116 No, 450 00:22:32.457 --> 00:22:34.397 and the course will be completely independent. 451 00:22:34.537 --> 00:22:43.380 And our main IP is in the fact that we will extract the knowledge that is usually not presented and provided by the university. 452 00:22:43.460 --> 00:22:45.240 It's not generalistic knowledge, 453 00:22:45.280 --> 00:22:46.401 but more operational. 454 00:22:47.021 --> 00:22:47.741 For example, 455 00:22:48.401 --> 00:22:52.823 university can teach you how the water recovery system works on the ISS, 456 00:22:52.883 --> 00:22:54.424 what are the components included, 457 00:22:54.504 --> 00:22:56.024 what are the purification levels, 458 00:22:57.045 --> 00:22:59.666 what was the evolution between different components, 459 00:22:59.706 --> 00:23:00.426 what is OPEX. 460 00:23:01.106 --> 00:23:05.208 But perhaps you will not know what happens if you have an ammonium breakthrough 461 00:23:05.648 --> 00:23:09.670 3am in the morning and how it is operationally dealt with. 462 00:23:10.670 --> 00:23:13.651 And this kind of knowledge exists only in experts had. 463 00:23:13.951 --> 00:23:16.472 And right now with the commissioning of the ISS, 464 00:23:16.873 --> 00:23:17.333 the key... 465 00:23:17.873 --> 00:23:24.417 And fundamental experts in this area are either at this retirement age or are already retired. 466 00:23:24.437 --> 00:23:27.579 So it's extremely important to document it to transfer. 467 00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:35.443 And we believe this will significantly increase interest in the life support and contribute also directly to the 468 00:23:36.564 --> 00:23:40.646 European autonomy by providing this education locally. 469 00:23:41.266 --> 00:23:43.388 You talk a lot about the teachers, 470 00:23:43.389 --> 00:23:44.848 the experts that you're having. 471 00:23:45.129 --> 00:23:45.629 Who are they? 472 00:23:46.213 --> 00:23:49.575 Our experts come from the different parts of the world. 473 00:23:51.555 --> 00:23:53.416 They are of different nationalities. 474 00:23:53.417 --> 00:23:54.817 They represent different countries. 475 00:23:54.897 --> 00:23:57.858 Some of them come from governmental organizations, 476 00:23:57.938 --> 00:23:59.119 some from industries. 477 00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:03.861 What really unites them is that all of them have a solid experience, 478 00:24:04.261 --> 00:24:07.142 20-plus years of experience working in the industry. 479 00:24:07.742 --> 00:24:11.564 These are the people who build the systems. 480 00:24:11.684 --> 00:24:13.505 These are people that led the missions. 481 00:24:13.845 --> 00:24:18.531 and these are the main contributors today in the main developments of the space industry. 482 00:24:20.032 --> 00:24:21.814 What is very important to mention perhaps, 483 00:24:22.035 --> 00:24:27.121 we are also trying and considering collaborating with experts that are not bound by 484 00:24:27.600 --> 00:24:28.781 any specific agreements, 485 00:24:28.782 --> 00:24:29.201 for instance, 486 00:24:29.361 --> 00:24:33.025 ITAR agreements or export control agreements, 487 00:24:33.045 --> 00:24:42.873 so that they can freely share the reason for the failures or their very secretive experience with us. 488 00:24:43.113 --> 00:24:49.658 And then we just document it in the way that is easily transferable to the participants. 489 00:24:50.219 --> 00:24:52.141 How was it to connect all your experts? 490 00:24:52.181 --> 00:24:54.182 Was it hard to get them to get involved? 491 00:24:54.663 --> 00:24:55.984 We see quite big interest. 492 00:24:56.744 --> 00:25:00.185 from both experts but also preliminary participants. 493 00:25:01.005 --> 00:25:01.846 And what is interesting, 494 00:25:01.906 --> 00:25:07.488 not only participants who come from the space sector but also participants from the medical industry, 495 00:25:07.788 --> 00:25:08.388 for instance, 496 00:25:08.928 --> 00:25:14.730 or autonomous navigation because they see that their skills can be applicable to space. 497 00:25:14.970 --> 00:25:18.551 They just need to have a mission context just to make this step. 498 00:25:19.051 --> 00:25:21.652 And that really is very good news. 499 00:25:22.464 --> 00:25:27.448 So now we're touching on the subject of the participants and the people doing your course. 500 00:25:28.108 --> 00:25:28.669 Who are they? 501 00:25:28.949 --> 00:25:31.291 We target anyone, 502 00:25:31.451 --> 00:25:32.712 if talking about the customer base, 503 00:25:32.713 --> 00:25:37.536 we target anyone who either wants or is in the human spaceflight related area. 504 00:25:38.076 --> 00:25:47.844 But specifically it's graduates or early professionals who want to receive operational knowledge in order to increase their chances of employment. 505 00:25:48.744 --> 00:25:49.364 On the other hand, 506 00:25:49.404 --> 00:25:53.986 it's also current experts and professionals working for years in these areas, 507 00:25:54.066 --> 00:26:00.569 but either want to always keep up to date or want to transfer from one area of life support to another. 508 00:26:00.629 --> 00:26:01.089 For instance, 509 00:26:01.129 --> 00:26:02.410 from life support to ISRU. 510 00:26:02.990 --> 00:26:09.012 Someone who wants to meet our experts and hear their own stories to learn from their mistakes or successes. 511 00:26:09.552 --> 00:26:10.093 And of course, 512 00:26:10.153 --> 00:26:18.156 it's companies and organizations that are understanding the importance of having their employees constantly trained and up 513 00:26:18.256 --> 00:26:23.658 to date because that directly increases efficiency and ROI in the end. 514 00:26:24.498 --> 00:26:25.378 So what's the, 515 00:26:26.418 --> 00:26:28.499 what's not the plan or the goal, 516 00:26:28.579 --> 00:26:30.900 but where do you see the company in a few years? 517 00:26:31.820 --> 00:26:33.760 What is your main objective first, 518 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:35.921 the first big step you want to reach? 519 00:26:37.681 --> 00:26:38.122 Once 520 00:26:39.102 --> 00:26:44.283 TITA alumni is a synonym of operational depth and trust. 521 00:26:45.084 --> 00:26:46.484 And when I start feeling that, 522 00:26:47.340 --> 00:26:48.781 That's an indication of success. 523 00:26:50.841 --> 00:26:51.801 Once we train 524 00:26:52.141 --> 00:26:55.002 500 people and the local network is created, 525 00:26:55.622 --> 00:26:56.323 that's success. 526 00:26:57.883 --> 00:27:00.604 And even if we look a bit longer than five years, 527 00:27:01.844 --> 00:27:08.966 once we see a European walking on the moon and you have all the environment around you, 528 00:27:09.006 --> 00:27:11.147 all the components that keep you alive, 529 00:27:12.307 --> 00:27:16.008 and I understand that there is some kind of contribution through the education. 530 00:27:16.208 --> 00:27:17.188 to make this possible, 531 00:27:17.608 --> 00:27:18.869 that's the biggest dream, 532 00:27:19.149 --> 00:27:21.190 professional dream come true for me personally. 533 00:27:24.671 --> 00:27:29.152 Why is this important for Europe to have? 534 00:27:30.252 --> 00:27:30.432 Well, 535 00:27:31.213 --> 00:27:33.473 space is not only about rockets. 536 00:27:33.613 --> 00:27:35.374 It's not only about satellites. 537 00:27:35.434 --> 00:27:37.295 It's not only about systems. 538 00:27:37.435 --> 00:27:38.595 The core is always human. 539 00:27:38.955 --> 00:27:41.496 And for the... 540 00:27:41.924 --> 00:27:42.864 Past decades, 541 00:27:42.904 --> 00:27:46.926 Europe has been extremely strong in developing systems, 542 00:27:48.247 --> 00:27:53.869 but perhaps the accent has not been on talent and neither on human. 543 00:27:54.529 --> 00:27:54.949 And if 544 00:27:55.409 --> 00:27:58.431 Europe really means to send humans, 545 00:27:58.471 --> 00:27:59.111 Europeans, 546 00:27:59.291 --> 00:28:03.473 on the surface of the moon by 2030, 547 00:28:05.213 --> 00:28:11.156 then we must start thinking about having the talent internally and education locally. 548 00:28:11.712 --> 00:28:18.456 Because that directly affects the autonomy and also reliance on the international talent. 549 00:28:19.837 --> 00:28:26.680 It is quite pity to be dependent completely on international talent and not being able to employ, 550 00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:27.141 for instance, 551 00:28:27.161 --> 00:28:27.981 a C-class engineer. 552 00:28:28.541 --> 00:28:32.824 When you have to spend a considerable amount to the third parties, 553 00:28:33.324 --> 00:28:37.126 you need to deal with expensive EOR or employment of record services. 554 00:28:37.146 --> 00:28:39.928 You need to deal with visas and so many other problems. 555 00:28:40.724 --> 00:28:46.088 So if we really want to sustain humans in space and if it's European targets, 556 00:28:46.089 --> 00:28:49.511 then it is definitely time to start thinking about now. 557 00:28:50.592 --> 00:28:53.354 So how do you see this, 558 00:28:54.055 --> 00:28:56.437 not from your academy point of view, 559 00:28:56.517 --> 00:28:58.298 but because we have now, 560 00:28:58.959 --> 00:28:59.179 I mean, 561 00:28:59.219 --> 00:29:01.781 this is the perfect timing to set up this. 562 00:29:02.362 --> 00:29:02.602 I mean, 563 00:29:02.842 --> 00:29:04.323 we're going back to the moon, 564 00:29:04.363 --> 00:29:05.544 we're going forward to Mars. 565 00:29:06.025 --> 00:29:09.968 So in what way will you make a difference in the long run for this? 566 00:29:10.848 --> 00:29:16.675 By providing the local education in these very crucial and niche areas, 567 00:29:17.195 --> 00:29:20.279 education in the shortest period of time, 568 00:29:20.619 --> 00:29:26.946 because not all professionals for instance can enroll today in a master's degree or even if it's one year master's degree, 569 00:29:27.607 --> 00:29:31.972 and obviously by providing internal pool of people of talent. 570 00:29:32.373 --> 00:29:33.534 within Europe itself. 571 00:29:34.034 --> 00:29:39.479 So it's easier to hire and you don't have to spend eight months to hire one person. 572 00:29:41.421 --> 00:29:46.145 And that is again directly contributes to both Europe's targets. 573 00:29:47.367 --> 00:29:58.316 of doing this by the year 2030 with Terrae NOA and also by making the autonomy much stronger and dependency much lower. 574 00:30:01.499 --> 00:30:04.902 When we started talking about this back in December, 575 00:30:04.922 --> 00:30:05.523 I think it was, 576 00:30:06.043 --> 00:30:12.889 because you've been taken into SABIC and that is part of the funding for this is through SABIC. 577 00:30:12.909 --> 00:30:13.850 Can you tell me about 578 00:30:14.170 --> 00:30:14.350 that? 579 00:30:14.910 --> 00:30:15.811 ISABIC is a 580 00:30:16.491 --> 00:30:19.171 European Space Agency business incubation center. 581 00:30:20.052 --> 00:30:23.112 There are different ISABICs depending on the country you are in. 582 00:30:24.313 --> 00:30:27.214 It's actually my second experience working with ISABIC. 583 00:30:28.934 --> 00:30:30.474 In my previous company, 584 00:30:30.514 --> 00:30:34.035 we also been part of ISABIC and we are alumni right now. 585 00:30:35.296 --> 00:30:35.956 But it's, 586 00:30:36.436 --> 00:30:43.398 I would say if you are starting a startup from the scratch and you don't have financial capabilities like Elon Musk. 587 00:30:44.859 --> 00:30:47.740 and you need to be part of the space network, 588 00:30:47.840 --> 00:30:51.721 that is the best way of starting the company. 589 00:30:52.442 --> 00:31:01.105 And I will say it's not easy because each year the demand from Isabik also increases and it's becoming more challenging to get in, 590 00:31:01.245 --> 00:31:06.307 both in terms of business plan and the pitching and interviews and the qualifications. 591 00:31:06.647 --> 00:31:07.088 For instance, 592 00:31:07.089 --> 00:31:07.528 in my case, 593 00:31:07.588 --> 00:31:12.650 since this is a company that starts completely from the scratch, 594 00:31:13.238 --> 00:31:15.319 It was not easy to get part of this, 595 00:31:15.439 --> 00:31:17.981 but I believe that they also saw the potential, 596 00:31:18.061 --> 00:31:21.082 then the opportunity and the need for this. 597 00:31:22.603 --> 00:31:25.365 ESA Big supports you with finances, 598 00:31:25.525 --> 00:31:27.866 but that's not really the most important. 599 00:31:28.466 --> 00:31:31.348 That probably gives you some engine to start with, 600 00:31:32.589 --> 00:31:34.029 but it's more about network. 601 00:31:34.850 --> 00:31:41.914 It's more about possibility to get basically any engineer you want within ESA or even SNSA. 602 00:31:43.255 --> 00:31:46.317 Let's say if I want someone to review a curriculum, 603 00:31:46.777 --> 00:31:51.862 I can get help from ESA Big and they will try to reach and they will pay to that person. 604 00:31:51.942 --> 00:31:58.367 And that's a tremendous support together with support in terms of the IP protection, 605 00:31:58.527 --> 00:32:05.853 in terms of the different technical support premises and many, 606 00:32:05.913 --> 00:32:06.373 many more. 607 00:32:06.954 --> 00:32:11.818 So for any startup that basically starts from the scratch. 608 00:32:12.262 --> 00:32:12.782 That's a very, 609 00:32:12.842 --> 00:32:14.443 very good opportunity. 610 00:32:18.524 --> 00:32:18.864 Okay, 611 00:32:19.164 --> 00:32:20.864 now we have a good start. 612 00:32:20.924 --> 00:32:22.165 We're going to the moon, 613 00:32:22.205 --> 00:32:27.026 and we've learned how the system keeps us alive when we're on the spot. 614 00:32:27.586 --> 00:32:27.806 Check 615 00:32:28.306 --> 00:32:30.327 But we want longer than that. 616 00:32:30.347 --> 00:32:34.028 And when we talk about traveling to Mars and stuff, 617 00:32:34.068 --> 00:32:36.029 then we're on the next level. 618 00:32:36.049 --> 00:32:38.709 Because if we're gone for three years, 619 00:32:38.769 --> 00:32:40.690 then we can't take all the food, 620 00:32:40.810 --> 00:32:41.350 all the water... 621 00:33:10.302 --> 00:33:11.242 What is MELISA? 622 00:33:11.622 --> 00:33:13.303 So if you want to go to Mars, 623 00:33:13.483 --> 00:33:14.023 you need to, 624 00:33:14.363 --> 00:33:14.683 let's say, 625 00:33:14.743 --> 00:33:18.464 maintain the crew and transport also what we call metabolic consumables. 626 00:33:18.804 --> 00:33:19.805 So it will be oxygen, 627 00:33:19.865 --> 00:33:20.525 water and food. 628 00:33:21.165 --> 00:33:24.426 But this represents for a mission of roughly three years, 629 00:33:24.746 --> 00:33:25.426 a lot of mass. 630 00:33:26.166 --> 00:33:30.187 Too much for the capacities of the current launcher. 631 00:33:30.508 --> 00:33:32.068 So you need to recycle. 632 00:33:32.328 --> 00:33:33.388 So MELISA is this. 633 00:33:33.508 --> 00:33:34.949 You recycle the water, 634 00:33:35.029 --> 00:33:36.109 you recycle urine, 635 00:33:36.869 --> 00:33:38.150 you recycle faecal matter. 636 00:33:38.630 --> 00:33:39.490 But the problem is... 637 00:33:39.650 --> 00:33:42.091 is the food sources. 638 00:33:42.191 --> 00:33:43.912 Because if you want to produce food, 639 00:33:44.052 --> 00:33:44.973 you need biology. 640 00:33:45.293 --> 00:33:47.634 And this is where you need to consider plants, 641 00:33:47.674 --> 00:33:48.294 bacteria, 642 00:33:48.734 --> 00:33:49.415 microalgae, 643 00:33:49.435 --> 00:33:49.935 and so on. 644 00:33:50.675 --> 00:33:51.516 To simplify, 645 00:33:52.016 --> 00:33:53.957 it's a kind of an artificial ecosystem. 646 00:33:54.337 --> 00:34:00.060 And is it an ecosystem that is up and running in space or is it just paperwork? 647 00:34:00.420 --> 00:34:00.540 No, 648 00:34:00.860 --> 00:34:02.281 it's much more than paperwork, 649 00:34:02.381 --> 00:34:04.462 but it's not in space yet. 650 00:34:06.042 --> 00:34:08.484 The project started in 1989, 651 00:34:08.485 --> 00:34:11.205 so it's a long-term effort. 652 00:34:11.785 --> 00:34:13.767 It started mainly with France and Belgium, 653 00:34:14.387 --> 00:34:16.768 but now there are 14 countries involved. 654 00:34:17.148 --> 00:34:19.330 So it's really a European consortium, 655 00:34:19.570 --> 00:34:20.490 a European effort, 656 00:34:21.231 --> 00:34:24.612 and it really tackles all the domains. 657 00:34:24.692 --> 00:34:26.073 So waste recycling, 658 00:34:26.994 --> 00:34:27.934 urine treatment, 659 00:34:28.755 --> 00:34:29.775 CO2 capture, 660 00:34:29.955 --> 00:34:30.976 oxygen production, 661 00:34:31.096 --> 00:34:31.816 food production, 662 00:34:31.856 --> 00:34:32.336 and so on. 663 00:34:32.717 --> 00:34:34.998 So we have an integration site. 664 00:34:35.258 --> 00:34:36.740 which is located in Barcelona, 665 00:34:36.900 --> 00:34:38.722 which we call the Melissa pilot plant, 666 00:34:39.022 --> 00:34:40.143 where we progressively, 667 00:34:40.584 --> 00:34:40.904 let's say, 668 00:34:40.984 --> 00:34:41.965 assemble the bricks, 669 00:34:43.067 --> 00:34:44.548 or the piece of the puzzle if you want. 670 00:34:45.049 --> 00:34:46.230 And we have 671 00:34:46.298 --> 00:34:47.158 As well in parallel, 672 00:34:47.378 --> 00:34:49.539 a large number of flight experiments, 673 00:34:49.959 --> 00:34:52.200 just to be sure that our understanding, 674 00:34:52.380 --> 00:34:56.002 our control of the processes we want to use are still correct. 675 00:34:56.542 --> 00:34:58.123 So we flew around, 676 00:34:58.263 --> 00:34:58.563 I think, 677 00:34:59.003 --> 00:35:01.064 10 or 11 flight experiments now, 678 00:35:01.464 --> 00:35:02.725 mainly on board space station, 679 00:35:02.805 --> 00:35:03.505 but not only. 680 00:35:03.825 --> 00:35:09.007 Is there any plans for the whole system to be up and running in space? 681 00:35:09.387 --> 00:35:09.527 Well, 682 00:35:09.567 --> 00:35:11.048 it's a very difficult question, 683 00:35:11.108 --> 00:35:11.868 because as you know, 684 00:35:11.869 --> 00:35:15.710 the international situation is a bit waving these days. 685 00:35:16.370 --> 00:35:17.031 I tried to be, 686 00:35:17.771 --> 00:35:18.131 let's say, 687 00:35:18.211 --> 00:35:19.973 very diplomatic there. 688 00:35:20.473 --> 00:35:22.434 There was an idea to go to Mars, 689 00:35:23.035 --> 00:35:23.855 to simplify, 690 00:35:24.316 --> 00:35:24.916 eight years ago. 691 00:35:25.256 --> 00:35:28.198 And then there was a big decision to stop this, 692 00:35:28.578 --> 00:35:29.639 to return to the moon. 693 00:35:30.540 --> 00:35:30.720 Now, 694 00:35:31.040 --> 00:35:31.540 visibly, 695 00:35:31.961 --> 00:35:33.202 this is what is planned. 696 00:35:33.203 --> 00:35:37.304 But there was discussion even a year ago to stop the moon and to go to Mars. 697 00:35:37.825 --> 00:35:40.226 So it's very hard to tell you. 698 00:35:40.647 --> 00:35:40.767 Now, 699 00:35:40.768 --> 00:35:42.588 in terms of technological development, 700 00:35:43.448 --> 00:35:45.570 it's reasonably clear that 701 00:35:45.890 --> 00:35:53.917 The return to moon will probably slow down these kind of processes because it's not becoming a top priority anymore. 702 00:35:54.077 --> 00:35:56.059 Top priority will be probably energy, 703 00:35:56.319 --> 00:35:57.360 radiation protection, 704 00:35:57.640 --> 00:35:58.160 and so on. 705 00:35:58.861 --> 00:36:00.182 So before, 706 00:36:00.803 --> 00:36:01.283 I would say, 707 00:36:01.984 --> 00:36:05.767 the plan was somewhere around 2050. 708 00:36:05.768 --> 00:36:08.629 But now it's very difficult to guess any date. 709 00:36:08.749 --> 00:36:10.090 Can you describe, 710 00:36:10.471 --> 00:36:10.891 first off, 711 00:36:10.931 --> 00:36:11.331 what does 712 00:36:11.872 --> 00:36:12.833 MELISA stand for? 713 00:36:13.053 --> 00:36:13.493 And then... 714 00:36:14.742 --> 00:36:14.882 Yes, 715 00:36:15.042 --> 00:36:15.823 the parts of it. 716 00:36:15.863 --> 00:36:16.903 What is it that you do? 717 00:36:17.263 --> 00:36:17.863 How does it work? 718 00:36:18.364 --> 00:36:18.484 So 719 00:36:18.904 --> 00:36:23.026 MELISA stands for Micro Ecological Life Support System Alternative. 720 00:36:23.326 --> 00:36:23.446 Yeah. 721 00:36:24.186 --> 00:36:26.868 And it's trying to mimic, 722 00:36:26.908 --> 00:36:28.648 or let's say it differently, 723 00:36:28.649 --> 00:36:31.209 it's inspired by a terrestrial ecosystem. 724 00:36:31.310 --> 00:36:34.151 So we go back to the early days of MELISA. 725 00:36:35.451 --> 00:36:35.932 We thought, 726 00:36:35.933 --> 00:36:41.074 is there any technology existing that we could be inspired in order to? 727 00:36:41.770 --> 00:36:42.350 And in fact, 728 00:36:42.351 --> 00:36:43.671 the technology is existing, 729 00:36:43.711 --> 00:36:45.132 it's a terrestrial ecosystem. 730 00:36:45.172 --> 00:36:45.773 And of course, 731 00:36:46.093 --> 00:36:49.235 we cannot fly a complete ecosystem. 732 00:36:49.275 --> 00:36:51.397 So we get inspired by a lake. 733 00:36:51.797 --> 00:36:53.478 So if you look carefully in a lake, 734 00:36:53.979 --> 00:36:55.320 at the bottom part of the lake, 735 00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:56.741 you will have no oxygen, 736 00:36:56.801 --> 00:36:57.261 more or less, 737 00:36:57.401 --> 00:36:57.981 no light. 738 00:36:58.562 --> 00:37:00.543 You will be in what we call anaerobic, 739 00:37:01.023 --> 00:37:04.966 and you will have microbial degradation with many bacteria. 740 00:37:05.126 --> 00:37:07.288 So they will produce shorter molecules. 741 00:37:07.848 --> 00:37:09.730 And then you are a little bit higher in the lake, 742 00:37:09.750 --> 00:37:10.230 so you will... 743 00:37:10.470 --> 00:37:12.131 you can benefit of a bit of light. 744 00:37:12.252 --> 00:37:13.693 So this will help you. 745 00:37:13.753 --> 00:37:16.875 We are in what we call photo-heterotrophic process, 746 00:37:16.975 --> 00:37:18.717 sorry for the complex name, 747 00:37:18.757 --> 00:37:24.081 which means mainly using light in order to transform other source of carbon which are not CO2. 748 00:37:25.082 --> 00:37:26.163 And you go a little bit higher, 749 00:37:26.164 --> 00:37:27.724 you are closer to surface of the lake, 750 00:37:27.764 --> 00:37:29.786 so there you will have a bit of dissolved oxygen. 751 00:37:30.446 --> 00:37:35.571 So you will be mainly able to transform the urea coming from urine, 752 00:37:35.891 --> 00:37:37.933 which is a main source of nitrogen for the plant. 753 00:37:38.873 --> 00:37:39.414 And then you will 754 00:37:39.714 --> 00:37:40.794 let's say oxidize it, 755 00:37:40.835 --> 00:37:43.616 you will go to what we call nitrate, 756 00:37:43.656 --> 00:37:43.776 NO3. 757 00:37:44.896 --> 00:37:47.037 And then you have more or less everything you need. 758 00:37:47.277 --> 00:37:47.777 You have the CO2, 759 00:37:48.197 --> 00:37:49.118 you have the nitrate, 760 00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:49.738 you have the light. 761 00:37:50.178 --> 00:37:52.259 So you can have photosynthesis, 762 00:37:52.739 --> 00:37:55.961 and then you will be able to grow plants and microalgae, 763 00:37:56.321 --> 00:37:57.401 produce food, 764 00:37:57.781 --> 00:37:58.902 produce oxygen, 765 00:37:59.282 --> 00:37:59.862 trap CO2, 766 00:38:00.563 --> 00:38:01.563 and even produce water. 767 00:38:01.723 --> 00:38:03.384 So you have a complete circular system. 768 00:38:03.984 --> 00:38:05.725 And again, 769 00:38:06.665 --> 00:38:07.245 you talked about it, 770 00:38:07.246 --> 00:38:08.886 but how would this work? 771 00:38:09.166 --> 00:38:09.886 when you come to, 772 00:38:10.746 --> 00:38:11.487 when you go to space? 773 00:38:11.987 --> 00:38:12.427 Of course, 774 00:38:12.567 --> 00:38:12.727 for, 775 00:38:12.767 --> 00:38:13.107 let's say, 776 00:38:13.127 --> 00:38:14.247 for the transit phase, 777 00:38:14.628 --> 00:38:16.148 or even to initiate the system, 778 00:38:16.608 --> 00:38:17.968 because the system is not perfect, 779 00:38:18.429 --> 00:38:20.109 so you will never have 100% 780 00:38:20.129 --> 00:38:20.749 of recycling. 781 00:38:21.009 --> 00:38:22.410 So you still need to transport. 782 00:38:22.810 --> 00:38:23.130 And then, 783 00:38:23.150 --> 00:38:23.630 of course, 784 00:38:23.830 --> 00:38:26.191 then the waste will be more or less collected, 785 00:38:26.192 --> 00:38:26.931 if I may say, 786 00:38:27.531 --> 00:38:29.312 CO2 coming from the astronaut, 787 00:38:29.512 --> 00:38:29.872 urine, 788 00:38:29.892 --> 00:38:30.412 and so on, 789 00:38:30.792 --> 00:38:32.913 and then will be progressively transformed. 790 00:38:33.273 --> 00:38:36.314 So if you speak about bacteria or microorganisms, 791 00:38:36.734 --> 00:38:37.234 You need to... 792 00:38:37.790 --> 00:38:39.351 Consider more or less a container, 793 00:38:39.951 --> 00:38:42.872 a container extremely well controlled, 794 00:38:42.873 --> 00:38:42.992 pH, 795 00:38:43.032 --> 00:38:43.833 temperature, 796 00:38:43.933 --> 00:38:44.553 styling, 797 00:38:45.593 --> 00:38:46.494 light and so on. 798 00:38:47.194 --> 00:38:59.459 And this you separate the liquid from the solid and you move to another big container where you will have another transformation and then at the end you will have the greenhouses where you will be able to produce, 799 00:39:00.219 --> 00:39:05.101 potentially the astronaut going there to harvest and part of course of the biomass is a waste, 800 00:39:05.102 --> 00:39:06.382 so it's returning directly. 801 00:39:06.858 --> 00:39:09.240 The other part is consumed by the astronaut. 802 00:39:09.740 --> 00:39:10.841 We're talking about Mars now. 803 00:39:10.842 --> 00:39:12.062 We should build it on Mars. 804 00:39:12.182 --> 00:39:16.826 How big will a system like this need to be to get it working? 805 00:39:16.886 --> 00:39:20.489 That's a very good question because this is still one of the key challenges. 806 00:39:20.609 --> 00:39:22.171 There are two key challenges. 807 00:39:22.251 --> 00:39:22.811 Radiation. 808 00:39:23.171 --> 00:39:23.372 Also, 809 00:39:23.692 --> 00:39:26.614 the radiation is more an issue for the crew than for the bacteria. 810 00:39:26.934 --> 00:39:29.597 Bacteria have a tendency to resist reasonably well. 811 00:39:30.597 --> 00:39:33.360 The top priority issue for the radiation is the astronaut. 812 00:39:34.180 --> 00:39:36.202 And for the transit phase, 813 00:39:36.462 --> 00:39:38.363 you are limited in terms of volume. 814 00:39:39.244 --> 00:39:40.845 So probably for the transit phase, 815 00:39:40.945 --> 00:39:44.328 we will not aim to a huge percentage of the diet, 816 00:39:44.928 --> 00:39:46.189 maybe a few percent, 817 00:39:46.529 --> 00:39:46.809 let's say, 818 00:39:46.810 --> 00:39:52.994 the top priority molecule that you need and which are very difficult to store fresh. 819 00:39:54.395 --> 00:39:57.237 But when you arrive on surface and you can deploy and have, 820 00:39:57.677 --> 00:39:57.977 let's say, 821 00:39:58.077 --> 00:39:59.618 produce more and come back. 822 00:40:00.179 --> 00:40:02.020 So there is the requirement, 823 00:40:02.180 --> 00:40:04.121 we call it the requirement in terms of engineering, 824 00:40:04.201 --> 00:40:04.942 are very different. 825 00:40:05.314 --> 00:40:08.226 for the transit phase and then the surface phase. 826 00:40:09.178 --> 00:40:09.678 And again, 827 00:40:10.218 --> 00:40:12.840 how big will it need to be when you get there? 828 00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:16.981 It's difficult to give you an answer because it's very dependent on the diet. 829 00:40:17.461 --> 00:40:18.101 For example, 830 00:40:18.401 --> 00:40:22.323 we know that more or less we can have a proper diet, 831 00:40:22.662 --> 00:40:23.243 equilibrate, 832 00:40:23.582 --> 00:40:24.283 with wheat only. 833 00:40:24.783 --> 00:40:25.264 But of course, 834 00:40:25.564 --> 00:40:28.204 you cannot imagine that the astronaut will eat only wheat. 835 00:40:28.445 --> 00:40:28.885 So you see, 836 00:40:29.385 --> 00:40:32.206 all this issue is not decided yet because we don't have the number. 837 00:40:32.765 --> 00:40:34.686 We still try to optimize. 838 00:40:35.226 --> 00:40:36.707 This is always a kind of... 839 00:40:38.319 --> 00:40:41.620 equilibrium that you have to find between top priority for space, 840 00:40:41.622 --> 00:40:45.803 who as you know have been changing a lot over the last eight years, 841 00:40:45.904 --> 00:40:48.445 well even more very recently, 842 00:40:49.166 --> 00:40:51.287 and of course the cost of development, 843 00:40:51.327 --> 00:40:51.927 the research. 844 00:40:52.227 --> 00:40:53.148 The space industry, 845 00:40:53.628 --> 00:40:54.988 who to oversimplify, 846 00:40:55.149 --> 00:41:00.111 is not so much fascinated by plant biology or whatever, 847 00:41:00.492 --> 00:41:02.012 they would dream of bigger launcher, 848 00:41:02.593 --> 00:41:03.874 because this is their core business, 849 00:41:04.234 --> 00:41:05.595 this is where their knowledge is. 850 00:41:05.971 --> 00:41:09.774 So if you start to tell them you need to study plants and so on, 851 00:41:10.574 --> 00:41:11.855 there is a bit of a reluctance. 852 00:41:12.115 --> 00:41:13.396 And we see it every day. 853 00:41:13.757 --> 00:41:14.697 If you open the news, 854 00:41:15.138 --> 00:41:16.218 the big space company, 855 00:41:16.238 --> 00:41:17.539 they want to do bigger launcher. 856 00:41:17.559 --> 00:41:20.120 They don't want to recycle so much. 857 00:41:20.261 --> 00:41:21.322 This is not their business. 858 00:41:25.645 --> 00:41:30.809 So if we leave space for a few seconds, 859 00:41:31.548 --> 00:41:32.990 what during these... 860 00:41:33.827 --> 00:41:37.148 35 years or so that you've been working on this or this project's been going on. 861 00:41:37.688 --> 00:41:39.269 What have you come up with? 862 00:41:39.309 --> 00:41:41.428 What new things, 863 00:41:42.389 --> 00:41:46.249 what have you learned that help us here on Earth? 864 00:41:46.851 --> 00:41:47.191 Indeed, 865 00:41:47.591 --> 00:41:51.712 we have a lot of what we call technological bricks, 866 00:41:52.111 --> 00:41:55.972 which are used to answer some terrestrial challenges. 867 00:41:56.693 --> 00:41:58.354 We have water recycling, 868 00:41:58.374 --> 00:41:58.894 of course. 869 00:41:59.014 --> 00:42:00.394 We have it in hotels. 870 00:42:01.034 --> 00:42:03.015 We have it in universities. 871 00:42:03.015 --> 00:42:03.135 So 872 00:42:03.566 --> 00:42:05.508 Clearly this is done, 873 00:42:05.510 --> 00:42:06.990 it's a commercial product now. 874 00:42:07.591 --> 00:42:11.994 And then we have this urine to fertilizer which is as well a commercial product. 875 00:42:12.535 --> 00:42:16.218 There is a few concrete realizations, 876 00:42:16.218 --> 00:42:17.139 there is a spin-off. 877 00:42:18.520 --> 00:42:20.481 And then we have microbial safety. 878 00:42:22.063 --> 00:42:22.883 For you to know, 879 00:42:23.124 --> 00:42:24.425 and this was not planned, 880 00:42:25.926 --> 00:42:27.707 based on the Mir experience, 881 00:42:27.807 --> 00:42:28.609 you remember Mir, 882 00:42:28.909 --> 00:42:31.091 the Russian space station. 883 00:42:32.155 --> 00:42:33.316 When we talk with the ocean, 884 00:42:33.356 --> 00:42:37.800 they tell us we have experienced big difficulties with microbial contamination. 885 00:42:38.281 --> 00:42:39.702 I'm back to the 90s there. 886 00:42:40.282 --> 00:42:40.823 So we thought, 887 00:42:40.843 --> 00:42:40.963 OK, 888 00:42:41.343 --> 00:42:42.484 we have to consider this. 889 00:42:42.685 --> 00:42:49.510 So we developed a technology to be able to detect and identify microbial pathogens. 890 00:42:49.890 --> 00:42:55.195 And this technology happens to be potentially usable for viruses. 891 00:42:55.456 --> 00:42:56.115 And guess what? 892 00:42:56.316 --> 00:42:56.937 It became, 893 00:42:56.977 --> 00:42:58.017 and it is still today, 894 00:42:58.538 --> 00:42:59.239 the first. 895 00:42:59.682 --> 00:43:02.484 a technological platform for COVID detection in the world. 896 00:43:02.584 --> 00:43:05.524 There are three big factories which are producing this unit, 897 00:43:05.544 --> 00:43:06.405 the consumable, 898 00:43:06.704 --> 00:43:08.706 so it's a tremendous success on this. 899 00:43:08.886 --> 00:43:09.825 But it was not planned, 900 00:43:09.865 --> 00:43:10.226 again, 901 00:43:10.686 --> 00:43:15.468 we were trying to solve the microbial safety of our space vehicles. 902 00:43:15.688 --> 00:43:16.928 We were not thinking that 903 00:43:17.288 --> 00:43:18.207 COVID will appear. 904 00:43:18.288 --> 00:43:21.729 So there is a few results. 905 00:43:22.149 --> 00:43:22.890 So now this is, 906 00:43:23.610 --> 00:43:23.910 again, 907 00:43:24.350 --> 00:43:26.711 this wording of technological bricks. 908 00:43:27.535 --> 00:43:27.994 Which is good, 909 00:43:27.995 --> 00:43:28.216 I mean, 910 00:43:28.256 --> 00:43:29.617 we have commercial companies, 911 00:43:29.657 --> 00:43:30.858 we are applied, 912 00:43:30.859 --> 00:43:31.278 this is good. 913 00:43:31.659 --> 00:43:32.640 Politicians are happy, 914 00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:34.441 we are happy because we learn as well, 915 00:43:34.441 --> 00:43:34.662 you know. 916 00:43:35.361 --> 00:43:36.363 If you have a technology, 917 00:43:36.483 --> 00:43:38.244 you need to validate it, 918 00:43:38.245 --> 00:43:39.745 you need to test it and so on. 919 00:43:40.307 --> 00:43:43.669 If you test electronic systems such as this microphone, 920 00:43:43.689 --> 00:43:45.311 you can plug it, 921 00:43:45.370 --> 00:43:45.892 restart it. 922 00:43:46.432 --> 00:43:48.213 But if you need to transform waste, 923 00:43:49.175 --> 00:43:50.115 and a consumer, 924 00:43:50.336 --> 00:43:51.055 you need both. 925 00:43:51.577 --> 00:43:51.736 Yeah, 926 00:43:51.836 --> 00:43:52.477 you need waste, 927 00:43:52.497 --> 00:43:53.459 you need human waste, 928 00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:53.778 okay? 929 00:43:54.327 --> 00:43:55.127 of which quality, 930 00:43:55.347 --> 00:43:57.928 you need to be sure what the people have been doing and so on, 931 00:43:58.068 --> 00:43:58.207 yeah? 932 00:43:58.707 --> 00:44:00.209 And you need somebody to costume it, 933 00:44:00.269 --> 00:44:00.968 yeah? 934 00:44:00.970 --> 00:44:01.869 And how do you do that? 935 00:44:02.508 --> 00:44:06.630 You cannot take people from the street and pack them in a container for three years. 936 00:44:07.611 --> 00:44:08.811 So this technology, 937 00:44:08.890 --> 00:44:21.254 the application of this technology for terrestrial challenges is very good for us because we learn with a lot of diversity what could be the problem and where are the problems and what we should improve, 938 00:44:21.615 --> 00:44:23.175 how to do the maintenance and so on. 939 00:44:23.631 --> 00:44:24.412 So now we, 940 00:44:24.691 --> 00:44:30.316 let's say the robustness of the technology is much better than it was due to this commercial application. 941 00:44:34.459 --> 00:44:35.720 You are now retired. 942 00:44:36.200 --> 00:44:41.224 But how does the project Melissa continue? 943 00:44:42.064 --> 00:44:45.146 What happens with that and how do you see it in the future? 944 00:44:45.546 --> 00:44:50.310 Now of course Melissa will suffer today of this international situation. 945 00:44:50.630 --> 00:44:51.430 That's very clear. 946 00:44:52.035 --> 00:44:54.618 There is some reorganization at the level of the project, 947 00:44:54.619 --> 00:44:55.178 to what I hear, 948 00:44:55.198 --> 00:44:56.619 because I'm not involved anymore. 949 00:44:57.140 --> 00:44:57.680 To what I hear, 950 00:44:57.720 --> 00:44:59.222 there is some reorganization there. 951 00:44:59.642 --> 00:45:02.725 So I don't know exactly how this will settle. 952 00:45:03.146 --> 00:45:03.945 But there is risk. 953 00:45:04.106 --> 00:45:08.471 There is risk that the European effort will be seriously reduced. 954 00:45:09.139 --> 00:45:12.521 If we don't talk Melissa, 955 00:45:12.841 --> 00:45:14.861 what do we need to improve? 956 00:45:14.922 --> 00:45:20.605 What do we need to work with when it comes to human spaceflight for long term in space? 957 00:45:20.965 --> 00:45:23.926 I would say radiation is a key issue. 958 00:45:24.427 --> 00:45:26.066 And I have no clue how they will solve it. 959 00:45:26.887 --> 00:45:27.988 Maybe if they are on the moon, 960 00:45:28.028 --> 00:45:32.550 maybe they will dig and go below with caterpillar and stuff like that. 961 00:45:33.610 --> 00:45:35.292 still for me a bit of science fiction. 962 00:45:35.392 --> 00:45:38.573 So you thought there was lots of countries working together on this, 963 00:45:38.653 --> 00:45:42.014 but how many people have been involved during all these years? 964 00:45:42.135 --> 00:45:45.535 There is plenty of contracts over the 965 00:45:46.055 --> 00:45:46.916 14 countries, 966 00:45:46.976 --> 00:45:48.476 sometimes it's one country, 967 00:45:48.517 --> 00:45:51.577 but sometimes it's three or four countries together to do research. 968 00:45:51.959 --> 00:45:55.240 So I'm totally unable to tell you how many contracts we signed, 969 00:45:56.220 --> 00:46:01.943 but I know that there is more than 400 documents plus the publication and so on. 970 00:46:02.043 --> 00:46:02.423 By the way, 971 00:46:03.142 --> 00:46:04.163 If people are interested, 972 00:46:04.164 --> 00:46:06.544 they can look on the Melissa Foundation webpage. 973 00:46:06.963 --> 00:46:09.524 A large part of the reports are available. 974 00:46:09.544 --> 00:46:10.624 You can download them. 975 00:46:11.146 --> 00:46:14.267 So there is a huge quantity of information which is public. 976 00:46:14.727 --> 00:46:16.046 So people can really work on it. 977 00:46:21.789 --> 00:46:24.770 We learn so much cool things in this program. 978 00:46:24.829 --> 00:46:27.211 And we learn you, 979 00:46:27.231 --> 00:46:27.731 dear listeners. 980 00:46:28.883 --> 00:46:31.605 If you want to know more about Melissa Foundation, 981 00:46:31.785 --> 00:46:35.868 you can find links and other food for recovery on our website, 982 00:46:36.368 --> 00:46:38.149 havioctimarschen.se. 983 00:46:38.789 --> 00:46:42.352 There you can also find more information about Tita Global Space Academy, 984 00:46:43.193 --> 00:46:44.414 Artemis and the Moon, 985 00:46:44.474 --> 00:46:47.716 and of course our previous episodes. 986 00:46:47.776 --> 00:46:47.896 Yes, 987 00:46:47.896 --> 00:46:50.178 and our upcoming episodes. 988 00:46:50.198 --> 00:46:51.838 Although they are not there yet, 989 00:46:51.979 --> 00:46:52.298 of course. 990 00:46:52.319 --> 00:46:54.120 But in the future, 991 00:46:54.181 --> 00:46:56.802 it will be among other things Arctic, 992 00:46:56.803 --> 00:46:57.262 radiation... 993 00:46:57.563 --> 00:46:58.843 lite olika gränser, 994 00:46:59.303 --> 00:47:00.525 rymd och försvar. 995 00:47:00.845 --> 00:47:02.666 Och så blir det ett avsnitt om Mars också. 996 00:47:02.945 --> 00:47:03.066 Ja, 997 00:47:03.546 --> 00:47:04.167 äntligen 998 00:47:04.606 --> 00:47:05.727 Hörs framåt 999 00:47:06.347 --> 00:47:07.389 Musiken som hörs i serien, 1000 00:47:07.508 --> 00:47:09.510 den är skriven av Armin Pendek. 1001 00:47:09.990 --> 00:47:11.691 Jag heter Susanna Lewenhaupt. 1002 00:47:11.950 --> 00:47:13.132 Jag heter Marcus Pettersson. 1003 00:47:13.651 --> 00:47:14.552 Har vi åkt i Marsen, 1004 00:47:14.793 --> 00:47:15.493 görs på Beppo, 1005 00:47:15.854 --> 00:47:16.934 av Rundfunk Media, 1006 00:47:17.213 --> 00:47:17.975 i samarbetet, 1007 00:47:18.315 --> 00:47:18.595 SAV. 1008 00:47:26.939 --> 00:47:29.983 Hello, 1009 00:47:37.770 --> 00:47:40.673 the program is made by 1010 00:47:41.253 --> 00:47:42.515 Rundfunk Media.