WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.884 --> 00:00:04.084 Hello! 2 00:00:04.725 --> 00:00:06.085 Passionate about sustainability, 3 00:00:06.226 --> 00:00:07.087 energy and climate? 4 00:00:07.667 --> 00:00:08.550 You're in the right place. 5 00:00:08.890 --> 00:00:09.968 Welcome to Energetic. 6 00:00:10.531 --> 00:00:18.460 I'm Marine Cornelis and together we will engage with people who dedicate their lives to climate justice and making a just energy transition happen. 7 00:00:19.179 --> 00:00:20.382 They may be activists, 8 00:00:20.585 --> 00:00:21.195 scientists, 9 00:00:21.585 --> 00:00:24.757 policy makers or other enthusiasts just like you. 10 00:00:25.491 --> 00:00:31.570 Let their life stories and insights inspire you to build a better future for people and the planet. 11 00:00:34.772 --> 00:00:38.552 She's the driving force behind CanEurope's Build Better Lives campaign, 12 00:00:38.715 --> 00:00:42.074 where she's championing a future where homes are efficient, 13 00:00:42.535 --> 00:00:44.418 heating and cooling are affordable, 14 00:00:44.574 --> 00:00:47.074 and energy poverty becomes a thing of the best. 15 00:00:47.754 --> 00:00:49.996 With her sights set on action, 16 00:00:50.058 --> 00:00:55.293 Monica Vidal works to ensure ambitious EU directives translate into real-world solutions. 17 00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:57.215 Before joining CanEurope, 18 00:00:57.355 --> 00:01:01.121 she shaped Spain's energy policy landscape at ECODES in Saragossa, 19 00:01:01.652 --> 00:01:04.105 advocating for bold decarbonization of buildings, 20 00:01:04.500 --> 00:01:07.704 while supporting millions in their fight against energy poverty. 21 00:01:08.224 --> 00:01:08.704 And today, 22 00:01:08.806 --> 00:01:13.411 she's all about turning plants into impact because the energy transition is, 23 00:01:13.505 --> 00:01:13.927 of course, 24 00:01:14.130 --> 00:01:15.294 not just about promises. 25 00:01:15.771 --> 00:01:17.153 It's about better lives, 26 00:01:17.310 --> 00:01:17.677 of course. 27 00:01:18.294 --> 00:01:18.575 Monica, 28 00:01:18.716 --> 00:01:19.435 welcome to the show. 29 00:01:19.974 --> 00:01:21.521 Thank you very much for having me today, 30 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:21.880 Marine. 31 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:24.942 I'm very much looking forward to our conversation. 32 00:01:24.974 --> 00:01:25.099 So, 33 00:01:25.474 --> 00:01:25.755 Monica, 34 00:01:25.896 --> 00:01:32.489 you have a very interesting background because you started in environmental science in Saragossa, 35 00:01:32.630 --> 00:01:34.067 and now you work at EU level. 36 00:01:34.728 --> 00:01:38.733 So what were the driving forces behind those choices? 37 00:01:39.553 --> 00:01:39.772 Well, 38 00:01:40.213 --> 00:01:43.619 it was not planned because I studied environmental science. 39 00:01:43.620 --> 00:01:44.135 So for me, 40 00:01:44.136 --> 00:01:46.236 it was all about natural protection. 41 00:01:46.416 --> 00:01:48.721 I was not planning to work on advocacy. 42 00:01:49.502 --> 00:01:51.400 And as I said, 43 00:01:51.463 --> 00:01:52.963 I studied environmental science. 44 00:01:53.010 --> 00:01:53.682 And thereafter, 45 00:01:53.807 --> 00:01:57.447 I did a master's degree on ecological industry. 46 00:01:57.588 --> 00:02:00.979 So it was all about making the processes more efficient. 47 00:02:00.980 --> 00:02:03.432 It was about the life cycle assessment. 48 00:02:03.588 --> 00:02:04.409 eco-design, 49 00:02:04.569 --> 00:02:05.029 etc. 50 00:02:05.230 --> 00:02:11.254 So in order to improve the packaging of the product or find a new material to reduce the impact of the product. 51 00:02:12.113 --> 00:02:16.558 And I had the chance and the opportunity to start working in relation with this. 52 00:02:16.644 --> 00:02:23.441 My first job was about calculating carbon footprint of products and events and organizations. 53 00:02:23.488 --> 00:02:25.332 So I was very happy about it. 54 00:02:25.847 --> 00:02:31.910 And then suddenly I had the opportunity to start working on advocacy in relation with eco-design directive. 55 00:02:32.363 --> 00:02:33.191 And that was the hook. 56 00:02:33.548 --> 00:02:33.928 and say, 57 00:02:34.089 --> 00:02:34.329 okay, 58 00:02:34.409 --> 00:02:34.970 eco design, 59 00:02:35.070 --> 00:02:35.851 that's interesting. 60 00:02:36.351 --> 00:02:39.816 And I started working and to do some advocacy relation with the 61 00:02:40.253 --> 00:02:47.405 Europe Eco Design Directive to influence the national government in Spain to vote more in a more ambitious way in Europe. 62 00:02:47.780 --> 00:02:51.843 But really the eco design part was the hook for me to start working on advocacy. 63 00:02:52.390 --> 00:02:55.702 But at the beginning really represent a very small part of my work. 64 00:02:55.905 --> 00:02:58.968 I was working on this following the eco design directive, 65 00:02:59.015 --> 00:03:02.734 but then I was working on continue calculating carbon footprint. 66 00:03:03.148 --> 00:03:06.451 Then after on energy poverty a little bit, 67 00:03:06.631 --> 00:03:10.595 and then the work on advocacy was keeping rolling, 68 00:03:10.775 --> 00:03:15.240 and I started working more on other EU files and on energy, 69 00:03:15.521 --> 00:03:17.138 like gas regulation. 70 00:03:17.662 --> 00:03:18.826 And then on transport, 71 00:03:19.209 --> 00:03:21.068 I've been working on the cars, 72 00:03:21.271 --> 00:03:22.349 CO2 standards, 73 00:03:22.381 --> 00:03:23.287 pedal to tracks, 74 00:03:23.709 --> 00:03:24.084 rail, 75 00:03:24.490 --> 00:03:25.256 in transport. 76 00:03:25.724 --> 00:03:31.974 And suddenly I was only working on advocacy and coordinating a team of five people. 77 00:03:32.432 --> 00:03:35.375 working on policy and governance. 78 00:03:36.156 --> 00:03:37.639 That's really fascinating because, 79 00:03:37.838 --> 00:03:38.096 I mean, 80 00:03:38.139 --> 00:03:46.846 there are so many people who do work on policy who actually don't really understand what is behind the numbers and so on. 81 00:03:47.510 --> 00:03:54.893 And I think a big part of the advocacy work is also to try to make sure the decision makers, 82 00:03:55.299 --> 00:03:56.377 so the policy makers, 83 00:03:56.815 --> 00:04:00.486 do understand why they need to go for stronger ambitions, 84 00:04:00.533 --> 00:04:00.752 right? 85 00:04:00.955 --> 00:04:01.158 and 86 00:04:01.672 --> 00:04:02.573 With your background, 87 00:04:03.094 --> 00:04:08.680 you're actually extremely knowledgeable and you're the right person to be both convincing, 88 00:04:08.739 --> 00:04:11.438 but also really with the facts and the science. 89 00:04:11.860 --> 00:04:17.595 So it's such an interesting dynamic and interesting courses that you have built over the years, 90 00:04:17.641 --> 00:04:17.845 right? 91 00:04:18.641 --> 00:04:18.813 Yeah, 92 00:04:18.845 --> 00:04:19.016 well, 93 00:04:19.173 --> 00:04:22.407 I think it's super important to have data, 94 00:04:22.532 --> 00:04:23.501 to have information, 95 00:04:23.516 --> 00:04:27.579 to have science when we just support our arguments. 96 00:04:27.956 --> 00:04:28.637 And for example, 97 00:04:28.657 --> 00:04:33.242 I think this is one of the key values of Canjura that we always work with science. 98 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:37.930 So I think it is important to have all the information and data. 99 00:04:38.703 --> 00:04:39.570 We need more data, 100 00:04:39.766 --> 00:04:41.211 even more data in our work, 101 00:04:41.367 --> 00:04:42.149 doing advocacy. 102 00:04:42.609 --> 00:04:45.117 But I think it's also working at EU level. 103 00:04:45.258 --> 00:04:45.508 For me, 104 00:04:45.509 --> 00:04:50.305 it was very nice to jump from national to EU level when I joined Canjura like three years ago, 105 00:04:50.742 --> 00:04:51.992 more than three years ago now. 106 00:04:52.414 --> 00:04:56.867 because really it was a very natural step for me because I was like working at national level. 107 00:04:57.320 --> 00:05:01.835 coming to Brussels like very often and with Brussels-based organizations. 108 00:05:02.388 --> 00:05:04.190 really to have more impact in our work, 109 00:05:04.270 --> 00:05:07.034 I thought I really need to do this job. 110 00:05:07.112 --> 00:05:10.698 And I'm very happy to work in an organization that really, 111 00:05:11.159 --> 00:05:13.479 really work with this orientation. 112 00:05:13.518 --> 00:05:13.901 Like it's, 113 00:05:13.940 --> 00:05:14.721 we need data, 114 00:05:15.057 --> 00:05:16.159 we need information, 115 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:19.690 we need to work with scientists and maybe we need more from that. 116 00:05:19.752 --> 00:05:22.190 But I think from my experience with policy, 117 00:05:22.346 --> 00:05:27.315 to convince policymakers also is very important to giving them some examples about what, 118 00:05:27.737 --> 00:05:29.877 how the things are happening at national level, 119 00:05:30.002 --> 00:05:30.815 at regional level, 120 00:05:30.877 --> 00:05:31.940 and also at local level. 121 00:05:32.428 --> 00:05:37.532 Because sometimes it's very connected with what we are proposing at EU level, 122 00:05:37.914 --> 00:05:39.536 with the reality at national level. 123 00:05:40.496 --> 00:05:40.614 Yeah, 124 00:05:40.778 --> 00:05:40.996 and 125 00:05:41.536 --> 00:05:44.161 CODES, the organization you belonged before, 126 00:05:44.723 --> 00:05:47.239 which is based in Saragossa in the north of Spain. 127 00:05:47.864 --> 00:05:48.582 For this framework, 128 00:05:48.661 --> 00:05:52.145 I visited it a few years ago in the framework of the Erasmus program. 129 00:05:52.395 --> 00:05:58.598 And I was really fascinated by all the work that is being done and how much... 130 00:05:59.224 --> 00:06:04.371 willingness there is to collaborate with different realities to really make an impact. 131 00:06:04.809 --> 00:06:08.895 And between like co-construction and step-by-step projects, 132 00:06:09.137 --> 00:06:15.160 and there are also really interesting projects to build a whole neighborhood with solar energy. 133 00:06:15.285 --> 00:06:16.238 So this kind of, 134 00:06:16.817 --> 00:06:18.098 I can see you nod now, 135 00:06:18.238 --> 00:06:19.785 and this experience was very, 136 00:06:20.129 --> 00:06:21.004 very inspiring. 137 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:22.473 So somehow, 138 00:06:23.067 --> 00:06:23.567 as you said, 139 00:06:23.926 --> 00:06:26.567 it feels that your experience at CanEurope is building 140 00:06:27.028 --> 00:06:33.490 on all the foundations that you also did with ECODES and you can also echo ECODES work at European level, 141 00:06:33.670 --> 00:06:33.888 right? 142 00:06:33.990 --> 00:06:35.947 So it's a nice continuation. 143 00:06:36.627 --> 00:06:36.791 Yeah, 144 00:06:36.830 --> 00:06:37.072 indeed, 145 00:06:37.111 --> 00:06:41.752 because I was the person representing ECODES in CAN Europe, 146 00:06:42.072 --> 00:06:44.267 because CAN Europe is a network of NGOs. 147 00:06:44.314 --> 00:06:49.314 We have more than 200 organizations that are part of the network, 148 00:06:49.658 --> 00:06:51.861 but I was also representing ECODES in other 149 00:06:52.267 --> 00:06:53.439 NGOs' network, 150 00:06:53.440 --> 00:06:54.017 for example, 151 00:06:54.221 --> 00:06:54.455 EEB. 152 00:06:54.852 --> 00:06:55.312 So for me, 153 00:06:55.313 --> 00:06:59.437 it was a very natural step to go from Ecuador to Chicago. 154 00:06:59.937 --> 00:07:00.656 And indeed, 155 00:07:00.878 --> 00:07:03.898 I've been working like for 12 years in Ecuador. 156 00:07:04.078 --> 00:07:06.304 So a lot of my background, 157 00:07:06.343 --> 00:07:06.921 of course, 158 00:07:07.101 --> 00:07:09.546 still relies on that period. 159 00:07:10.046 --> 00:07:10.585 But well, 160 00:07:11.312 --> 00:07:14.671 it was not always easy because when I hear you, 161 00:07:14.687 --> 00:07:15.000 you know, 162 00:07:15.015 --> 00:07:16.875 to talk about the solar project. 163 00:07:17.078 --> 00:07:18.156 And well, 164 00:07:18.421 --> 00:07:20.156 it was so at the beginning, 165 00:07:20.157 --> 00:07:24.437 you have the idea and you put it in a paper and it looks fine. 166 00:07:25.216 --> 00:07:30.761 And then you have the opportunity to put this project in practice and then you find all the barriers. 167 00:07:31.624 --> 00:07:36.389 But that's also a lot of knowledge when you confront these barriers. 168 00:07:36.546 --> 00:07:42.116 And that's one of the experiences and the conclusions, 169 00:07:42.147 --> 00:07:42.694 I will say, 170 00:07:42.757 --> 00:07:43.257 the learning, 171 00:07:43.258 --> 00:07:46.772 the takeaways that I take from that part is the importance of collaboration. 172 00:07:47.303 --> 00:07:52.116 We need to collaborate with different stakeholders in order to achieve. 173 00:07:52.288 --> 00:07:54.288 Because we are facing a... 174 00:07:54.668 --> 00:07:55.809 climate crisis, 175 00:07:56.128 --> 00:07:56.988 housing crisis. 176 00:07:56.989 --> 00:07:57.729 So they are both, 177 00:07:57.988 --> 00:08:00.190 they are big problems and we are so small, 178 00:08:00.729 --> 00:08:02.830 but we need to collaborate with others. 179 00:08:02.908 --> 00:08:03.533 For example, 180 00:08:03.611 --> 00:08:05.893 if we are coming to the energy poverty work, 181 00:08:06.393 --> 00:08:11.572 it's impossible to really try to improve the situation on energy poverty. 182 00:08:12.057 --> 00:08:14.932 If you don't talk with the utilities companies, 183 00:08:15.291 --> 00:08:22.119 because you really need to understand how the social tariff works in order to help the people that are. 184 00:08:22.700 --> 00:08:24.663 claiming for this social tariff, 185 00:08:24.741 --> 00:08:25.323 for example. 186 00:08:25.702 --> 00:08:30.870 So we really need to talk with different stakeholders because if not, 187 00:08:30.886 --> 00:08:33.393 it will be very difficult. 188 00:08:33.729 --> 00:08:34.972 So that's collaboration. 189 00:08:35.612 --> 00:08:38.097 It's one of the first takeaways for me. 190 00:08:38.573 --> 00:08:41.636 And that's exactly what we are trying to do with the Build Veterans Campaign, 191 00:08:42.042 --> 00:08:44.636 to unite different stakeholders, 192 00:08:44.745 --> 00:08:46.167 the social justice organization, 193 00:08:46.261 --> 00:08:47.870 housing organization, 194 00:08:47.901 --> 00:08:48.683 environmental, 195 00:08:48.823 --> 00:08:49.620 trade unions, 196 00:08:49.948 --> 00:08:50.886 young movement groups. 197 00:08:51.272 --> 00:08:53.232 in order to ensure decent, 198 00:08:53.273 --> 00:08:55.671 affordable energy efficiency homes for all. 199 00:08:56.812 --> 00:08:58.155 That is music to my ears. 200 00:08:58.214 --> 00:09:01.913 And collaboration over competition is exactly the angle of Energetic. 201 00:09:01.952 --> 00:09:02.195 Because, 202 00:09:02.695 --> 00:09:02.913 yes, 203 00:09:02.976 --> 00:09:16.210 I do believe that we need to really communicate more and to communicate better and to understand what is behind the various projects to build better solutions and to build long-term resilience in a way. 204 00:09:16.660 --> 00:09:18.621 It's beyond solving energy poverty, 205 00:09:18.761 --> 00:09:22.623 but it's also about improving the life of millions, 206 00:09:22.943 --> 00:09:23.720 of billions. 207 00:09:24.263 --> 00:09:31.345 And that requires really a broader view and better collaborations between the various parties that are together. 208 00:09:31.564 --> 00:09:32.837 And for instance, 209 00:09:32.838 --> 00:09:37.369 I've just finished working with the European Commission on Summer Energy Poverty. 210 00:09:38.119 --> 00:09:41.712 And really what the main takeaway is really that you can't... 211 00:09:42.376 --> 00:09:43.997 only work with energy actors, 212 00:09:43.998 --> 00:09:45.918 you also have to work with climate actors, 213 00:09:45.976 --> 00:09:49.099 with the civil society that works on climate, 214 00:09:49.377 --> 00:09:51.478 on urban planning as well, 215 00:09:51.541 --> 00:09:53.580 because if you just look at one, 216 00:09:54.259 --> 00:09:55.158 really one angle, 217 00:09:55.963 --> 00:09:59.502 you don't answer to the bigger problem that it is. 218 00:09:59.580 --> 00:09:59.705 So, 219 00:10:00.174 --> 00:10:01.955 meteorological organization, 220 00:10:02.236 --> 00:10:03.127 health organization, 221 00:10:03.158 --> 00:10:03.283 etc., 222 00:10:03.595 --> 00:10:06.236 they are all needed to be part of the answers, 223 00:10:06.283 --> 00:10:06.439 right? 224 00:10:07.024 --> 00:10:08.085 And in particular, 225 00:10:08.406 --> 00:10:11.129 the Build Better campaign that you are coordinating. 226 00:10:11.610 --> 00:10:16.696 So this emerged while revising the Energy Performance of Buildings Directive, 227 00:10:16.711 --> 00:10:17.656 the EPBD, 228 00:10:18.352 --> 00:10:19.797 for nerds like us. 229 00:10:20.258 --> 00:10:23.797 So what was the rationale behind launching this campaign? 230 00:10:24.016 --> 00:10:27.781 And how did you go about uniting diverse organizations around it? 231 00:10:28.281 --> 00:10:31.672 Were you faced with some form of skepticism at first? 232 00:10:32.750 --> 00:10:32.922 Well, 233 00:10:33.453 --> 00:10:33.985 as you said, 234 00:10:34.594 --> 00:10:35.375 we launched it. 235 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:38.122 and putting together this campaign during the revision of the 236 00:10:38.602 --> 00:10:40.204 Energy Performance Buildings Directive. 237 00:10:40.766 --> 00:10:42.868 And in our work plans, 238 00:10:43.208 --> 00:10:44.212 to start a new campaign, 239 00:10:44.407 --> 00:10:45.672 it was not in our plans, 240 00:10:46.094 --> 00:10:48.633 but we've been working in the revision. 241 00:10:48.813 --> 00:10:51.969 We're doing the policy and advocacy work. 242 00:10:52.469 --> 00:10:56.501 And we saw that the directive was receiving a lot of backlash, 243 00:10:57.344 --> 00:10:59.126 specifically from different countries, 244 00:10:59.626 --> 00:11:02.422 and just in the social angle against the directive. 245 00:11:02.423 --> 00:11:02.766 Thank you. 246 00:11:03.136 --> 00:11:04.397 It's exactly the opposite. 247 00:11:04.458 --> 00:11:15.825 We really need to put a positive message around the buildings directed because if we really manage to have an ambitious and socially just buildings directive, 248 00:11:16.309 --> 00:11:19.114 actually that can help and improve people's lives. 249 00:11:19.708 --> 00:11:21.473 And that was the purpose of the campaign. 250 00:11:22.192 --> 00:11:23.161 And then say, 251 00:11:23.255 --> 00:11:23.473 okay, 252 00:11:23.630 --> 00:11:24.442 we need to do that, 253 00:11:24.895 --> 00:11:26.286 but we cannot do that alone. 254 00:11:26.458 --> 00:11:27.177 As I was saying, 255 00:11:27.192 --> 00:11:28.286 that was my thinking. 256 00:11:28.864 --> 00:11:31.317 It's not only the environmental organization that... 257 00:11:31.584 --> 00:11:37.589 can really talk about the social importance and how we can really need to improve people's life. 258 00:11:37.590 --> 00:11:40.953 We need to team up with the social justice organization, 259 00:11:40.976 --> 00:11:42.273 the housing organization, 260 00:11:42.274 --> 00:11:43.554 the health organization, 261 00:11:43.593 --> 00:11:44.515 as you were saying. 262 00:11:44.937 --> 00:11:49.796 But also the social dimension is about the people that use these buildings, 263 00:11:50.343 --> 00:11:50.546 right? 264 00:11:50.578 --> 00:11:52.390 Because we need to build this to live, 265 00:11:52.406 --> 00:11:52.968 to study, 266 00:11:53.203 --> 00:11:53.671 to work. 267 00:11:54.093 --> 00:11:58.546 But it's also about the people who work in the construction sector as well, 268 00:11:58.890 --> 00:12:00.890 because we really need to improve there. 269 00:12:01.268 --> 00:12:02.890 working condition of these people. 270 00:12:03.230 --> 00:12:06.113 And that's why we also team up with the trade unions. 271 00:12:07.293 --> 00:12:11.140 And about your question about the people were hesitant at the beginning, 272 00:12:11.695 --> 00:12:12.195 to be honest, 273 00:12:12.196 --> 00:12:23.476 it was very easy to convince people to join the campaign because people understood very fast that we really need to do something together in relation with this. 274 00:12:24.132 --> 00:12:24.835 And yeah. 275 00:12:25.028 --> 00:12:25.248 course, 276 00:12:25.288 --> 00:12:28.371 was a little work because we need to convince people, 277 00:12:28.692 --> 00:12:31.836 we need to add the different arguments from one organization to others. 278 00:12:32.195 --> 00:12:32.774 But at the end, 279 00:12:32.775 --> 00:12:37.844 it was very surprisingly easy to convince them to join the campaign. 280 00:12:38.344 --> 00:12:38.899 And well, 281 00:12:39.125 --> 00:12:41.852 nowadays we are like 92 organizations, 282 00:12:42.445 --> 00:12:43.930 the campaigns keep growing. 283 00:12:44.367 --> 00:12:45.102 And of course, 284 00:12:45.195 --> 00:12:47.008 now we are more focused on the revision, 285 00:12:47.508 --> 00:12:48.258 the APPD, 286 00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:50.680 the revision was finished, 287 00:12:50.681 --> 00:12:53.008 and now we are facing the implementation of the APPD. 288 00:12:53.692 --> 00:13:05.024 And that will be one of the main challenges and one of the main priorities for the campaign to push for a socially just and ambitious implementation of the buildings directive. 289 00:13:05.524 --> 00:13:05.985 And also, 290 00:13:06.024 --> 00:13:06.524 of course, 291 00:13:06.587 --> 00:13:10.469 now with the new commission on energy and housing, 292 00:13:11.094 --> 00:13:14.532 also the idea is to continue working with other 293 00:13:15.032 --> 00:13:15.829 EU plans, 294 00:13:15.907 --> 00:13:16.657 for example, 295 00:13:16.719 --> 00:13:16.829 the 296 00:13:17.282 --> 00:13:19.141 European Affordable Housing Plan. 297 00:13:19.719 --> 00:13:22.735 And because the link between the housing crisis 298 00:13:23.144 --> 00:13:24.686 And the problems are related, 299 00:13:24.726 --> 00:13:25.186 for example, 300 00:13:25.227 --> 00:13:27.367 energy poverty are very related. 301 00:13:27.488 --> 00:13:31.715 So we cannot work on one thing without the other. 302 00:13:32.395 --> 00:13:34.051 We shouldn't be working in silos. 303 00:13:34.098 --> 00:13:35.856 It's something that comes very often, 304 00:13:36.020 --> 00:13:38.981 but it may be really hard not to work in silos, 305 00:13:39.020 --> 00:13:39.379 right? 306 00:13:39.738 --> 00:13:41.301 And it's exactly what you try to break. 307 00:13:41.302 --> 00:13:47.426 But before we get a little bit more into the Build Better initiative and the implementation of the 308 00:13:47.973 --> 00:13:49.395 Energy Performance of Building Directive, 309 00:13:49.691 --> 00:13:52.207 Can you share a few figures about why the... 310 00:13:52.508 --> 00:14:00.389 building sector matters so much when we talk about the climate crisis and we talk about energy poverty. 311 00:14:01.214 --> 00:14:01.331 Yeah, 312 00:14:01.510 --> 00:14:07.995 well buildings in Europe represent 40 percent of the EU energy consumption, 313 00:14:08.409 --> 00:14:08.995 for example, 314 00:14:09.354 --> 00:14:12.807 and this consumption is mostly related with heating. 315 00:14:13.479 --> 00:14:17.948 And we still heating our buildings with mainly with fossil fuels, 316 00:14:18.417 --> 00:14:18.698 coal, 317 00:14:18.870 --> 00:14:19.198 gas, 318 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:20.495 mainly. 319 00:14:20.796 --> 00:14:21.777 But at the same time, 320 00:14:21.797 --> 00:14:23.398 we have very inefficient buildings. 321 00:14:23.939 --> 00:14:25.301 We know that 70% 322 00:14:26.363 --> 00:14:28.843 of our buildings are deemed inefficient. 323 00:14:29.484 --> 00:14:34.648 So we are hitting very inefficient buildings with fossil fuels that the price is very volatile, 324 00:14:34.851 --> 00:14:35.953 sometimes it's very high, 325 00:14:36.414 --> 00:14:42.031 and that leads us to the situation that we are facing with 42 million people suffering from energy poverty. 326 00:14:42.656 --> 00:14:45.968 So that's why it's so important to work on buildings, 327 00:14:46.015 --> 00:14:48.562 because it's not only about the climate change. 328 00:14:48.920 --> 00:14:51.122 but it's also about improving people's lives. 329 00:14:51.782 --> 00:14:53.645 And also when you think about building, 330 00:14:54.825 --> 00:14:57.751 when we are talking about residential buildings, 331 00:14:58.126 --> 00:15:00.008 that means housing sector. 332 00:15:00.594 --> 00:15:01.915 And in the housing sector, 333 00:15:02.430 --> 00:15:02.813 of course, 334 00:15:02.837 --> 00:15:05.079 we all need a place to live. 335 00:15:05.766 --> 00:15:07.766 But so housing is a right, 336 00:15:08.486 --> 00:15:14.666 but the situation that we see is like the market sees the housing as a financial asset. 337 00:15:15.111 --> 00:15:18.307 So people who have capital invest in housing. 338 00:15:19.088 --> 00:15:25.963 And that's why the housing crisis is so damaging nowadays in Europe, 339 00:15:26.353 --> 00:15:28.916 that this situation exacerbates the problem. 340 00:15:29.525 --> 00:15:33.275 So we really need to find a solution for both. 341 00:15:33.454 --> 00:15:33.935 crisis, 342 00:15:33.936 --> 00:15:36.098 the housing crisis and the climate crisis. 343 00:15:36.197 --> 00:15:36.656 And of course, 344 00:15:36.697 --> 00:15:37.437 that's not easy. 345 00:15:38.238 --> 00:15:45.430 But what we are willing is to put proposals there that really try to focus on both. 346 00:15:45.445 --> 00:15:46.367 And as I said before, 347 00:15:46.368 --> 00:15:51.805 the idea is to ensure decent and affordable and also energy efficiency homes for all. 348 00:15:52.289 --> 00:15:55.601 So we cannot build only new buildings. 349 00:15:55.633 --> 00:15:57.445 So it will be not the solution. 350 00:15:57.492 --> 00:16:02.039 We really need to renovate the buildings that are very inefficient, 351 00:16:02.305 --> 00:16:03.148 as I said before. 352 00:16:03.926 --> 00:16:09.812 But also we need to do something with the empty spaces that we have in our cities. 353 00:16:10.371 --> 00:16:18.324 We need to repurpose these spaces in order to really be a place that can be the home for someone. 354 00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:19.605 Yes, 355 00:16:19.808 --> 00:16:20.590 after COVID, 356 00:16:20.762 --> 00:16:22.183 now there are many offices, 357 00:16:22.199 --> 00:16:22.762 for instance, 358 00:16:22.777 --> 00:16:27.043 that are empty and could be repurposed if there were some plans to do so, 359 00:16:27.246 --> 00:16:27.465 right? 360 00:16:27.871 --> 00:16:28.152 First, 361 00:16:28.215 --> 00:16:30.308 and the second aspect you talked about, 362 00:16:30.465 --> 00:16:30.855 I would say, 363 00:16:31.058 --> 00:16:31.652 I would call it... 364 00:16:31.966 --> 00:16:32.567 speculation. 365 00:16:32.687 --> 00:16:34.268 The fact that for some people, 366 00:16:34.369 --> 00:16:39.994 it's just impossible to find a decent accommodation for a fair price. 367 00:16:40.291 --> 00:16:45.002 And this issue with the housing is very, 368 00:16:46.096 --> 00:16:46.479 I think, 369 00:16:46.721 --> 00:16:47.018 overall, 370 00:16:47.019 --> 00:16:48.549 the conversation comes from Spain, 371 00:16:48.690 --> 00:16:48.909 right? 372 00:16:49.065 --> 00:16:56.705 The fact that there was so much speculation over with the Vulture friends who bought a lot of not so high quality housing. 373 00:16:56.893 --> 00:16:57.205 And then 374 00:16:57.562 --> 00:17:00.286 decided to repurpose them and then increase the rents, 375 00:17:00.344 --> 00:17:00.546 right? 376 00:17:00.585 --> 00:17:03.587 It's really something that I've noticed. 377 00:17:03.606 --> 00:17:08.715 It's a conversation that we see way more in Spain and maybe in Ireland than in the rest of Europe. 378 00:17:09.176 --> 00:17:12.176 Is it something that you have been working on too, 379 00:17:12.419 --> 00:17:12.614 right? 380 00:17:13.536 --> 00:17:13.723 Well, 381 00:17:14.083 --> 00:17:14.442 actually, 382 00:17:14.536 --> 00:17:17.598 it's something that we really want to work more in the future, 383 00:17:17.645 --> 00:17:18.708 in the near future. 384 00:17:18.942 --> 00:17:21.864 And because it's true that housing until now, 385 00:17:21.989 --> 00:17:26.473 it was really something that really needs to be managed at the national level. 386 00:17:26.898 --> 00:17:31.502 and we need to continue like this at national and regional and local level. 387 00:17:31.904 --> 00:17:36.912 But it's true that now with this new portfolio that Jorgensen has, 388 00:17:37.209 --> 00:17:39.787 you're making the link between energy and housing. 389 00:17:40.248 --> 00:17:48.162 We expect some plans that really help and guide also member states to do something in relation with housing. 390 00:17:48.584 --> 00:17:52.021 But so far at Cane Europe we didn't work on housing. 391 00:17:52.490 --> 00:17:54.724 But as I said residential buildings, 392 00:17:55.052 --> 00:17:55.771 that's housing. 393 00:17:56.134 --> 00:18:00.319 But we will stay in the energy efficiency part, 394 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:01.460 I will say. 395 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:02.542 But of course, 396 00:18:02.921 --> 00:18:05.386 supporting the organization working on housing, 397 00:18:05.401 --> 00:18:05.886 for example, 398 00:18:05.901 --> 00:18:06.987 as part of the campaign. 399 00:18:07.307 --> 00:18:08.550 There is Habitat for Humanity, 400 00:18:08.589 --> 00:18:09.128 for example, 401 00:18:09.143 --> 00:18:11.370 that they work a lot on these issues. 402 00:18:11.448 --> 00:18:15.878 And they have another campaign that is NGS Spaces that is really working on this. 403 00:18:16.268 --> 00:18:25.425 And our hope is we have the opportunity to amplify their work and also include some of their demands as part of the Build for Tolis campaign. 404 00:18:25.906 --> 00:18:29.410 So but we will stay on the energy side of the problem, 405 00:18:29.490 --> 00:18:29.971 I would say. 406 00:18:31.111 --> 00:18:32.092 That's really interesting. 407 00:18:32.111 --> 00:18:32.334 And I mean, 408 00:18:32.335 --> 00:18:34.912 2025 looks very exciting for you. 409 00:18:34.951 --> 00:18:35.639 So yeah, 410 00:18:35.732 --> 00:18:39.178 that's really great to know and that you will be also focusing on this. 411 00:18:39.217 --> 00:18:39.943 And I mean, 412 00:18:39.998 --> 00:18:42.170 it's of course not my comment wasn't of course, 413 00:18:42.201 --> 00:18:44.310 you to just put the blame on this kind of funds, 414 00:18:44.342 --> 00:18:47.982 because in a way they can also they can be part of the solution. 415 00:18:48.060 --> 00:18:50.670 But it's also about providing the rights. 416 00:18:50.838 --> 00:18:54.121 engaging in the right conversation with them so they don't increase the crisis, 417 00:18:54.422 --> 00:18:54.602 right? 418 00:18:54.603 --> 00:18:55.664 So it's all about that. 419 00:18:55.903 --> 00:18:56.403 But anyway, 420 00:18:56.524 --> 00:18:57.465 in the campaign, 421 00:18:57.586 --> 00:19:02.711 you mentioned also the importance of integrating the social dimensions into the campaign. 422 00:19:03.414 --> 00:19:04.430 But as you said, 423 00:19:04.555 --> 00:19:08.649 you can Europe is usually more around energy efficiency. 424 00:19:08.852 --> 00:19:10.961 It's more about the climate aspect. 425 00:19:11.024 --> 00:19:18.899 So how do you work to ensure a kind of a balanced approach in a way between the social challenges. 426 00:19:19.178 --> 00:19:21.000 and let's say the energy challenges. 427 00:19:22.101 --> 00:19:22.262 Well, 428 00:19:22.361 --> 00:19:24.863 that's the link with what we were saying before, 429 00:19:24.902 --> 00:19:25.586 for example, 430 00:19:25.625 --> 00:19:27.867 in the case of buildings renovation, 431 00:19:28.086 --> 00:19:28.289 right, 432 00:19:28.328 --> 00:19:31.008 is one of our main battles. 433 00:19:31.109 --> 00:19:36.000 We need to we really need to increase the rate of building renovation in Europe. 434 00:19:36.562 --> 00:19:37.781 And for example, 435 00:19:38.219 --> 00:19:40.765 what we want to avoid is like people, 436 00:19:40.812 --> 00:19:41.562 for example, 437 00:19:42.094 --> 00:19:44.125 the price of the buildings in the rent, 438 00:19:44.390 --> 00:19:44.828 for example, 439 00:19:44.906 --> 00:19:46.531 increase because the landlord, 440 00:19:46.687 --> 00:19:47.265 for example. 441 00:19:47.630 --> 00:19:49.172 renovate the building. 442 00:19:49.533 --> 00:19:52.435 That's where the social angle needs to be implemented. 443 00:19:52.576 --> 00:19:55.615 And that's where we are proposing the social safe words, 444 00:19:55.896 --> 00:19:56.201 really, 445 00:19:56.482 --> 00:19:57.842 to protect people. 446 00:19:58.381 --> 00:19:58.740 Because, 447 00:19:58.943 --> 00:19:59.701 as we were saying, 448 00:20:00.342 --> 00:20:05.631 we really want to see the affordable house also for the people. 449 00:20:06.082 --> 00:20:08.383 It's what we really want to avoid is to, 450 00:20:08.465 --> 00:20:09.225 for example, 451 00:20:09.446 --> 00:20:13.950 we were talking about speculation that goes together sometimes with gentrification. 452 00:20:14.614 --> 00:20:17.872 And we really want to avoid gentrification as well, 453 00:20:18.270 --> 00:20:22.098 because we really need to learn from the experience. 454 00:20:22.442 --> 00:20:24.083 And in the case of Spain, 455 00:20:24.145 --> 00:20:24.723 for example, 456 00:20:24.786 --> 00:20:27.098 we saw a lot of gentrification as well. 457 00:20:27.176 --> 00:20:34.005 So spaces that were renovated and all the people that were living in this neighborhood for years. 458 00:20:34.536 --> 00:20:34.989 And now. 459 00:20:35.382 --> 00:20:40.566 They really need to go away because the rents are super high and they cannot pay that. 460 00:20:40.827 --> 00:20:44.128 So we really need to put some caps on rent. 461 00:20:44.511 --> 00:20:46.433 That's one of the things that we are proposing, 462 00:20:46.855 --> 00:20:48.714 but it's not the only measure. 463 00:20:48.816 --> 00:20:53.066 But that's the angle that we need to apply when in our work, 464 00:20:53.067 --> 00:20:53.581 for example, 465 00:20:53.659 --> 00:20:58.144 like really proposing social safe works in relation with building renovation, 466 00:20:58.347 --> 00:20:58.722 for instance. 467 00:20:59.822 --> 00:20:59.962 Yes, 468 00:21:00.002 --> 00:21:02.905 so it's social safeguards to avoid a renovation, 469 00:21:02.985 --> 00:21:03.186 right? 470 00:21:03.925 --> 00:21:06.128 That's the term that has been used in different settings. 471 00:21:06.389 --> 00:21:07.050 And on the, 472 00:21:07.389 --> 00:21:07.749 let's say, 473 00:21:07.889 --> 00:21:09.772 energy efficiency side, 474 00:21:09.811 --> 00:21:10.069 I mean, 475 00:21:10.491 --> 00:21:12.952 you're one of the best experts on energy efficiency, 476 00:21:13.054 --> 00:21:13.218 right? 477 00:21:13.257 --> 00:21:16.452 Because you also know about energy efficiency of the appliances. 478 00:21:16.514 --> 00:21:19.046 That's what the eco-design directives are about. 479 00:21:19.077 --> 00:21:23.202 So I never had anybody on the show tell me about the eco-design directives. 480 00:21:23.889 --> 00:21:27.405 So it's your time to share things or two about the eco-design. 481 00:21:27.666 --> 00:21:34.774 So why does it matter that households are equipped with energy efficient appliances? 482 00:21:35.473 --> 00:21:35.637 Well, 483 00:21:35.872 --> 00:21:36.137 actually, 484 00:21:36.254 --> 00:21:39.622 I'm not sure if you want me to talk about the Ecosystem Directive, 485 00:21:40.481 --> 00:21:46.106 but what I can say about the appliances and related to energy poverty. 486 00:21:46.309 --> 00:21:46.825 For example, 487 00:21:47.090 --> 00:21:48.622 when I was working at national level, 488 00:21:48.668 --> 00:21:56.168 we were I visited a lot of apartments from people that could not really afford to pay the energy bills. 489 00:21:56.706 --> 00:22:00.449 And what we saw is that people have very old appliances. 490 00:22:01.070 --> 00:22:01.191 So, 491 00:22:01.613 --> 00:22:01.750 and, 492 00:22:01.933 --> 00:22:05.254 but sometimes it's not only that they are old, 493 00:22:05.535 --> 00:22:06.097 but they are, 494 00:22:06.394 --> 00:22:06.855 for example, 495 00:22:06.918 --> 00:22:08.980 you could see a fridge without a door, 496 00:22:09.339 --> 00:22:09.902 for example. 497 00:22:10.621 --> 00:22:11.918 So as you can imagine, 498 00:22:11.964 --> 00:22:15.363 that means that this fridge is consuming a lot of energy. 499 00:22:15.722 --> 00:22:20.910 And that's one of the reasons why they have a very super high energy bill. 500 00:22:21.410 --> 00:22:21.785 Of course, 501 00:22:21.816 --> 00:22:22.488 that's a very, 502 00:22:22.597 --> 00:22:23.129 it's not, 503 00:22:23.769 --> 00:22:24.535 it's one case, 504 00:22:24.691 --> 00:22:24.816 no? 505 00:22:24.988 --> 00:22:25.629 but we yeah 506 00:22:25.998 --> 00:22:26.598 I saw that. 507 00:22:27.158 --> 00:22:29.739 So really what I wanted to say is like, 508 00:22:30.038 --> 00:22:32.198 we really need to have as much very, 509 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:34.800 very efficient appliances in our home, 510 00:22:34.980 --> 00:22:37.597 especially the ones that really consume a lot of energy. 511 00:22:38.237 --> 00:22:38.722 For example, 512 00:22:38.737 --> 00:22:39.159 a fridge. 513 00:22:39.339 --> 00:22:42.816 A fridge is one of the things that you have always planned. 514 00:22:43.159 --> 00:22:47.769 So if you are planning to renovate your kitchen, 515 00:22:48.691 --> 00:22:50.378 the fridge is the most important one. 516 00:22:50.659 --> 00:22:52.987 So you really need to have a very efficient one. 517 00:22:53.581 --> 00:22:55.644 And also same with the washing. 518 00:22:55.806 --> 00:22:56.146 chain, 519 00:22:56.427 --> 00:23:00.351 so really try to have efficient programs and use it. 520 00:23:00.710 --> 00:23:01.311 But it's not. 521 00:23:01.851 --> 00:23:01.972 Yeah, 522 00:23:02.011 --> 00:23:05.675 I will say that it's very important because we really need to use, 523 00:23:06.058 --> 00:23:06.300 right? 524 00:23:06.315 --> 00:23:07.440 It's not like an option. 525 00:23:07.456 --> 00:23:08.198 It's not an option. 526 00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:08.456 We, 527 00:23:08.620 --> 00:23:09.644 you really need a bridge. 528 00:23:10.120 --> 00:23:14.847 So that's why it's so important that people can afford an efficient bridge, 529 00:23:14.925 --> 00:23:15.487 for example. 530 00:23:16.112 --> 00:23:16.659 But yeah, 531 00:23:16.769 --> 00:23:18.128 with the Code Design Directive, 532 00:23:18.315 --> 00:23:20.612 it's a directive that works like in package, 533 00:23:20.753 --> 00:23:21.597 product packages. 534 00:23:21.644 --> 00:23:23.550 So once you put in 535 00:23:23.878 --> 00:23:31.045 that they can work on the revision of the washing machine's package or the fridge or the heating appliances. 536 00:23:31.486 --> 00:23:41.490 And that's why it's so important because that makes really a ball that puts that pressure on the market really to improve this product. 537 00:23:41.959 --> 00:23:44.943 So they set the target high, 538 00:23:45.021 --> 00:23:46.427 so the market needs to risk. 539 00:23:47.674 --> 00:23:47.814 Yeah, 540 00:23:47.894 --> 00:23:48.795 and last year, 541 00:23:49.015 --> 00:23:50.457 was it a couple of years ago, 542 00:23:50.797 --> 00:23:54.722 there was also a revision of the different labels of the appliances, 543 00:23:54.781 --> 00:23:55.000 right? 544 00:23:55.562 --> 00:24:05.965 Because the energy efficiency of those appliances had increased so much in the past years that they had to level it up a bit to reflect better the actual trend. 545 00:24:06.449 --> 00:24:08.871 But there is a big issue with the affordability. 546 00:24:09.355 --> 00:24:09.480 So 547 00:24:09.980 --> 00:24:16.621 I had to change my oven a few months ago because mine died overnight and I couldn't repair it. 548 00:24:17.110 --> 00:24:19.032 There weren't any spare parts available. 549 00:24:19.112 --> 00:24:21.954 I tried for months to get a spare part and it wasn't available. 550 00:24:22.055 --> 00:24:23.638 So I had to buy a new one. 551 00:24:24.216 --> 00:24:25.434 Really absurd story, 552 00:24:25.677 --> 00:24:26.598 maybe for another time. 553 00:24:27.239 --> 00:24:28.583 But I was really, 554 00:24:28.778 --> 00:24:29.083 I'd say, 555 00:24:29.739 --> 00:24:33.294 badly impressed by the price of the most efficient appliances. 556 00:24:34.013 --> 00:24:38.856 And there are some choices that people have to make on the affordability side. 557 00:24:38.857 --> 00:24:42.356 So is it for the overall building quality? 558 00:24:42.950 --> 00:24:43.997 And as you said, 559 00:24:44.231 --> 00:24:46.434 even if you work on the safeguards, 560 00:24:46.513 --> 00:24:46.825 they aren't. 561 00:24:46.982 --> 00:24:52.569 things that are actually expensive and expensive to run and expensive to purchase. 562 00:24:53.108 --> 00:24:58.436 So how do you make sure that more people manage to afford this kind of the benefits of the transition? 563 00:24:58.490 --> 00:25:01.295 Because it's also getting a backlash because it's perceived as expensive, 564 00:25:01.358 --> 00:25:01.553 right? 565 00:25:02.576 --> 00:25:02.780 Yeah, 566 00:25:03.014 --> 00:25:03.342 totally. 567 00:25:03.436 --> 00:25:04.420 And you're totally right. 568 00:25:04.514 --> 00:25:06.701 And we didn't manage so far to really. 569 00:25:07.216 --> 00:25:10.259 And then the most efficient products are always the more expensive. 570 00:25:10.460 --> 00:25:13.600 And it's funny you mentioned the energy label, 571 00:25:13.663 --> 00:25:15.882 because I've been working on that as well, 572 00:25:15.968 --> 00:25:19.046 when there was a re-scaling of the energy label. 573 00:25:19.632 --> 00:25:21.147 Because actually what we have, 574 00:25:21.171 --> 00:25:21.647 for example, 575 00:25:21.694 --> 00:25:22.608 in the energy label, 576 00:25:22.647 --> 00:25:23.913 you could see all the labels. 577 00:25:23.975 --> 00:25:24.429 They are 578 00:25:25.069 --> 00:25:25.194 A++, 579 00:25:26.413 --> 00:25:26.850 A, B, 580 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:27.069 C, 581 00:25:27.132 --> 00:25:27.257 D. 582 00:25:27.632 --> 00:25:29.038 So people perceive 583 00:25:29.460 --> 00:25:31.944 A+, like a super good product. 584 00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:34.282 it was not the best option that you can have. 585 00:25:34.302 --> 00:25:36.705 It was the minimum option that you can find in the market, 586 00:25:36.763 --> 00:25:37.084 actually, 587 00:25:37.085 --> 00:25:38.205 in relation with some products, 588 00:25:38.244 --> 00:25:38.787 for example, 589 00:25:38.826 --> 00:25:39.408 washing machine. 590 00:25:39.646 --> 00:25:41.548 So 8NAS was the minimum that you can buy. 591 00:25:42.048 --> 00:25:45.369 But it was perceived like super good because you could see the E, 592 00:25:45.650 --> 00:25:45.775 A, 593 00:25:45.994 --> 00:25:46.111 B, 594 00:25:46.314 --> 00:25:46.431 C, 595 00:25:46.533 --> 00:25:46.650 D. 596 00:25:46.775 --> 00:25:49.697 So that's why they re-scaled the energy label. 597 00:25:50.181 --> 00:25:53.666 And that's actually the energy label together with the eco-design directly, 598 00:25:53.947 --> 00:26:01.041 which makes it try to clean the rest of the bad products from the market. 599 00:26:01.364 --> 00:26:06.890 So I guess that's the opportunity that we have to really reduce the prices of the good products. 600 00:26:07.109 --> 00:26:12.496 If we really try to avoid from the market the really inefficient products, 601 00:26:12.957 --> 00:26:15.137 I think that's the way that we can have. 602 00:26:15.441 --> 00:26:16.097 But for example, 603 00:26:16.176 --> 00:26:22.277 one of the recommendations that I will have for everyone is to really think if you really need this product. 604 00:26:22.918 --> 00:26:23.933 In the case of a bridge, 605 00:26:24.090 --> 00:26:25.012 it's like very clear. 606 00:26:25.402 --> 00:26:26.308 But for example, 607 00:26:26.746 --> 00:26:27.793 when a dryer, 608 00:26:28.371 --> 00:26:29.730 do we really need a dryer? 609 00:26:30.268 --> 00:26:30.688 In Spain, 610 00:26:30.809 --> 00:26:31.469 we really don't. 611 00:26:31.910 --> 00:26:32.872 In other countries, 612 00:26:32.911 --> 00:26:33.971 maybe it's more important. 613 00:26:34.032 --> 00:26:36.934 But I think it's very important to think about this and also the size. 614 00:26:37.434 --> 00:26:43.157 Because when we see in the market that they are producing bigger products, 615 00:26:43.641 --> 00:26:45.446 so they are maybe more efficient, 616 00:26:45.447 --> 00:26:46.165 but they are bigger. 617 00:26:46.719 --> 00:26:50.672 So that also brings us to the conversation about sufficiency. 618 00:26:51.344 --> 00:26:53.985 And it's super important in relation with products, 619 00:26:54.126 --> 00:26:56.297 because we have bigger TVs, 620 00:26:56.657 --> 00:26:57.501 bigger fridges, 621 00:26:58.110 --> 00:26:59.438 and bigger wasimashias. 622 00:26:59.632 --> 00:27:01.874 as sometimes we don't need that pitch. 623 00:27:02.816 --> 00:27:02.935 Yeah, 624 00:27:02.976 --> 00:27:03.615 absolutely. 625 00:27:03.794 --> 00:27:06.939 And also try to keep your appliances for as long as possible. 626 00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:10.724 That goes back to me not able to repair my oven, 627 00:27:10.943 --> 00:27:11.427 which was, 628 00:27:11.544 --> 00:27:12.005 of course, 629 00:27:12.006 --> 00:27:13.365 I felt 630 00:27:14.029 --> 00:27:16.911 I was angry about the fact that it wasn't possible. 631 00:27:16.927 --> 00:27:18.818 And now there is a right to repair in Europe, 632 00:27:18.819 --> 00:27:21.208 but it's all about implementation, 633 00:27:21.318 --> 00:27:21.490 right? 634 00:27:21.521 --> 00:27:22.177 So yes, 635 00:27:22.411 --> 00:27:24.740 Build Better now is about implementation. 636 00:27:24.865 --> 00:27:28.115 So what kind of steps are you going to do? 637 00:27:28.472 --> 00:27:55.901 this year and the next to focus on implementation and making sure that member states do better and build better and member states and cities and regions do better and how will you be helping them well in in the framework of the bmbs directive there is the shooter in 2025 at the end of 2025 december 2025 members states need to draft the 638 00:27:55.979 --> 00:27:57.760 national building renovation plans 639 00:27:58.300 --> 00:27:58.800 So really, 640 00:27:59.020 --> 00:28:07.384 this will be like a key document for them to really show how they will implement the buildings directive. 641 00:28:07.783 --> 00:28:10.884 So now we are really focused on C, 642 00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:16.079 which are the different elements that these member states need to include. 643 00:28:16.439 --> 00:28:16.767 We are, 644 00:28:17.704 --> 00:28:18.251 so far, 645 00:28:18.408 --> 00:28:26.861 we are working in relation with the Commission because it's the Commission that really should give member states some guidance on how to draft these plans 646 00:28:27.283 --> 00:28:27.439 4. 647 00:28:27.804 --> 00:28:48.943 different sections because in the national building renovation plans you need to they need to include some part of heating but also on the zero zero energy buildings and also solar solar mandates so there are different elements of course we will network on everything but that's that's our main priority now working with the commission to try to 648 00:28:49.602 --> 00:28:55.006 have good guidance notes for member states at the same times with the campaign. 649 00:28:55.229 --> 00:28:57.248 And because in as part of the campaign, 650 00:28:57.268 --> 00:28:59.330 we have organizations working at national level. 651 00:28:59.791 --> 00:29:01.275 So what we want to do, 652 00:29:01.791 --> 00:29:11.971 what we are pushing is to have public participation at national level to really produce inclusive national building renovation plans. 653 00:29:12.377 --> 00:29:12.861 And for me, 654 00:29:13.111 --> 00:29:16.549 coming to one of the questions that you had at the beginning of about my 655 00:29:17.118 --> 00:29:19.441 The lessons I learned from my work at national level, 656 00:29:19.841 --> 00:29:22.345 that's my second lesson learned, 657 00:29:22.743 --> 00:29:24.665 is the importance of the reality check. 658 00:29:25.009 --> 00:29:28.110 We really need to check with the organization. 659 00:29:28.111 --> 00:29:28.650 For example, 660 00:29:28.673 --> 00:29:32.071 if you are planning this national building renovation plan, 661 00:29:32.235 --> 00:29:38.360 that hopefully they will fail to release some suffering from energy poverty, 662 00:29:38.735 --> 00:29:44.829 you really need to include in these public participation processes people who suffer energy poverty. 663 00:29:45.267 --> 00:29:45.985 In this case, 664 00:29:46.274 --> 00:29:47.436 In relation with buildings, 665 00:29:47.756 --> 00:29:52.862 you really need to include people that have problems to find that that's suffering the housing crisis. 666 00:29:53.221 --> 00:29:53.342 So, 667 00:29:53.643 --> 00:29:54.104 for example, 668 00:29:54.143 --> 00:29:56.166 working with tenants and so on. 669 00:29:56.268 --> 00:30:00.869 So the importance of an inclusive and ambitious public participation is mandatory. 670 00:30:01.971 --> 00:30:02.205 Yes, 671 00:30:02.346 --> 00:30:06.815 it's critical and it's part of the good governance and about public acceptance, 672 00:30:06.862 --> 00:30:07.080 right? 673 00:30:08.237 --> 00:30:14.487 People embrace this transition as a positive framework for improvement of their lives, 674 00:30:14.549 --> 00:30:14.705 right? 675 00:30:15.299 --> 00:30:15.596 and 676 00:30:16.014 --> 00:30:16.234 I mean, 677 00:30:16.374 --> 00:30:22.121 we are broadcasting this episode at the very beginning of 2025. 678 00:30:22.661 --> 00:30:24.325 And now we have a 679 00:30:24.926 --> 00:30:28.965 European commissioner in charge of housing and energy. 680 00:30:30.145 --> 00:30:33.934 So how do you envision working with him this year? 681 00:30:34.575 --> 00:30:36.481 It's the very first time he had housing, 682 00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:36.746 right? 683 00:30:36.793 --> 00:30:40.293 Because housing is quite a national prerogative, 684 00:30:40.340 --> 00:30:42.059 but it has become over the years, 685 00:30:42.106 --> 00:30:42.606 as you said, 686 00:30:43.543 --> 00:30:45.106 a European priority too. 687 00:30:45.215 --> 00:30:45.606 and there are 688 00:30:45.806 --> 00:30:46.767 different initiatives. 689 00:30:46.807 --> 00:30:50.109 There is also the New Europe and Baha House and different things like that. 690 00:30:50.129 --> 00:30:56.660 So they are very different schemes to really streamline the new ways of inhabit Europe, 691 00:30:56.676 --> 00:30:56.879 right? 692 00:30:56.957 --> 00:31:00.418 So what are your priorities and how will you be working with him? 693 00:31:01.809 --> 00:31:01.949 Well, 694 00:31:02.090 --> 00:31:05.387 our priority is like he really work on ensure decent, 695 00:31:05.388 --> 00:31:07.449 affordable and energy efficiency homes for all. 696 00:31:07.590 --> 00:31:12.746 So really not only with this housing part that he has as part of his portfolio, 697 00:31:13.137 --> 00:31:14.230 he really don't forget. 698 00:31:14.766 --> 00:31:19.792 about the affordability part of this solution for the housing crisis. 699 00:31:20.991 --> 00:31:23.495 That's one of our key priorities. 700 00:31:23.597 --> 00:31:24.698 And talking about narrative, 701 00:31:24.753 --> 00:31:27.042 to really put the renovation part, 702 00:31:27.120 --> 00:31:30.339 to repurposing empty spaces in the narrative. 703 00:31:30.378 --> 00:31:33.011 That will be one of our priorities on the narrative side. 704 00:31:33.464 --> 00:31:33.917 Of course, 705 00:31:34.058 --> 00:31:34.902 as I said, 706 00:31:35.089 --> 00:31:36.542 on the political side, 707 00:31:36.933 --> 00:31:39.089 we will really work here, 708 00:31:39.136 --> 00:31:42.917 we'll keep working on the implementation of the buildings directive. 709 00:31:43.586 --> 00:31:43.966 For us, 710 00:31:44.067 --> 00:31:45.767 our demand will be like, 711 00:31:45.828 --> 00:31:46.548 okay, 712 00:31:46.709 --> 00:31:51.611 you really need to call member states to really implement social justice, 713 00:31:51.736 --> 00:31:54.017 social justice and ambitious building directive. 714 00:31:54.517 --> 00:32:03.361 And I know that the European Affordable Housing Plan will be one of our priorities also when we talk in the conversation with him. 715 00:32:04.267 --> 00:32:04.861 For example, 716 00:32:04.955 --> 00:32:08.877 what we did this month as part of the Build But Don't Ice campaign, 717 00:32:08.923 --> 00:32:12.095 we prepared an open call for him with the priorities. 718 00:32:12.522 --> 00:32:18.507 and that we have as a campaign for the first year of his mandate. 719 00:32:18.847 --> 00:32:20.952 And that were the main focus, 720 00:32:21.171 --> 00:32:22.632 the implementation of the 721 00:32:23.210 --> 00:32:27.155 Builders Directive and also the European Affordable Housing Plan. 722 00:32:28.101 --> 00:32:31.788 It's going to be a very busy year and I wish you the very best of luck. 723 00:32:31.882 --> 00:32:32.804 And of course, 724 00:32:32.882 --> 00:32:36.413 I hope that you find some inspiration on Energetic too. 725 00:32:36.890 --> 00:32:37.610 Thank you so much, 726 00:32:37.910 --> 00:32:38.150 Monica, 727 00:32:38.230 --> 00:32:40.211 for this super insightful conversation. 728 00:32:40.371 --> 00:32:42.990 I wasn't expecting to talk about my oven, 729 00:32:43.432 --> 00:32:46.674 but that was the joy of live recording. 730 00:32:46.689 --> 00:32:47.596 So thank you so much, 731 00:32:47.650 --> 00:32:47.994 Monica. 732 00:32:48.635 --> 00:32:49.596 And happy new year. 733 00:32:50.275 --> 00:32:52.236 Thank you very much for having me today, 734 00:32:52.635 --> 00:32:53.018 Marine. 735 00:32:53.111 --> 00:33:00.268 And I'm really looking forward to continue this conversation in the future with you and also maybe with the people who are listening to us today. 736 00:33:00.768 --> 00:33:02.393 Because we really need to work together, 737 00:33:02.471 --> 00:33:02.689 right? 738 00:33:03.080 --> 00:33:04.080 To build our lives. 739 00:33:04.674 --> 00:33:05.314 Absolutely. 740 00:33:05.658 --> 00:33:07.159 It's about building better lives. 741 00:33:07.340 --> 00:33:07.880 Thank you so much, 742 00:33:07.881 --> 00:33:08.161 Monica. 743 00:33:10.202 --> 00:33:13.167 Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Energetic. 744 00:33:13.425 --> 00:33:21.311 It's been a pleasure diving deep into the world of sustainability and the just energy transition with some of the most forward-thinking mouths out there. 745 00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:22.850 I'm Maureen Canales, 746 00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:24.616 your host from Policy Consultancy, 747 00:33:24.694 --> 00:33:25.757 Next Energy Consumer, 748 00:33:26.132 --> 00:33:29.600 and it's been an incredible journey carrying this podcast together with you, 749 00:33:29.975 --> 00:33:32.100 our knowledgeable and passionate listeners. 750 00:33:32.804 --> 00:33:34.038 Since 2021. 751 00:33:34.218 --> 00:33:35.680 we've shared countless stories, 752 00:33:35.840 --> 00:33:36.321 insights, 753 00:33:36.340 --> 00:33:39.483 and ideas over more than 14 episodes. 754 00:33:39.885 --> 00:33:43.045 And it's all thanks to your support and enthusiasm. 755 00:33:43.748 --> 00:33:48.030 If you've enjoyed our journey so far and want to help us keep the conversation going, 756 00:33:48.412 --> 00:33:50.014 why not support us on Patreon? 757 00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:53.923 Every bit helps us bring more inspiring content your way. 758 00:33:54.423 --> 00:33:56.226 Check out the show notes for the link. 759 00:33:56.925 --> 00:33:57.347 And hey, 760 00:33:57.808 --> 00:34:03.472 if you're a part of an organization that shares our passion for a sustainable and inclusive energy future, 761 00:34:03.972 --> 00:34:06.855 we're excited to explore sponsorship opportunities with you. 762 00:34:07.324 --> 00:34:13.355 It's a fantastic way to connect with a dedicated audience and make an even bigger impact together. 763 00:34:14.339 --> 00:34:15.761 Shout out to the fantastic 764 00:34:16.152 --> 00:34:18.855 Igor Mikhailovich from Podcast Media Factory. 765 00:34:19.244 --> 00:34:21.625 for his incredible sound design work, 766 00:34:21.987 --> 00:34:24.430 making every episode a joy to listen to. 767 00:34:25.329 --> 00:34:26.352 If you haven't already, 768 00:34:26.610 --> 00:34:30.051 make sure to subscribe to Energetic on your favorite podcast platform. 769 00:34:30.536 --> 00:34:34.020 And if you think a friend or a colleague could benefit from our episode, 770 00:34:34.403 --> 00:34:36.028 we'd love for you to spread the word. 771 00:34:36.465 --> 00:34:40.653 It helps us grow and keep the energy transition conversation alive. 772 00:34:41.184 --> 00:34:42.465 Sharing is caring. 773 00:34:43.028 --> 00:34:48.168 Follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn to stay engaged and update on all things Energetic. 774 00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:50.362 Thanks once again for lending your ears. 775 00:34:50.502 --> 00:34:56.431 Until next time.