WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.580 --> 00:00:01.180 And in the beginning, 2 00:00:01.181 --> 00:00:04.841 we started with a few farmers and we asked them, 3 00:00:04.900 --> 00:00:05.021 yeah, 4 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:10.603 can we start experimenting growing herbs on your land because we want to make tea out of them. 5 00:00:11.079 --> 00:00:13.079 And a lot of farmers really laughed and like, 6 00:00:13.126 --> 00:00:13.361 what? 7 00:00:14.806 --> 00:00:17.704 You want to turn weeds into products? 8 00:00:17.798 --> 00:00:18.220 And we said, 9 00:00:18.407 --> 00:00:18.704 yes. 10 00:00:28.088 --> 00:00:36.419 And one thing that I learned is that I wasn't inspired at all by the way sustainability was done or treated in these big, 11 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:37.536 big companies. 12 00:00:38.059 --> 00:00:38.856 I always felt like, 13 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:39.036 yeah, 14 00:00:39.161 --> 00:00:40.481 this is doing less bad. 15 00:00:40.864 --> 00:00:40.981 So, 16 00:00:41.965 --> 00:00:42.083 yeah, 17 00:00:42.325 --> 00:00:42.801 who cares? 18 00:00:43.364 --> 00:00:44.606 Why not be more ambitious? 19 00:00:46.122 --> 00:00:47.044 So then I realized, 20 00:00:47.059 --> 00:00:47.184 yeah, 21 00:00:47.512 --> 00:00:50.715 that sustainability wasn't it for me because it felt like, 22 00:00:50.747 --> 00:00:50.903 yeah, 23 00:00:52.028 --> 00:00:52.684 it's less bad. 24 00:00:52.715 --> 00:00:54.669 And I did this thought experiment with myself. 25 00:00:54.700 --> 00:00:55.934 So what if I... 26 00:00:56.932 --> 00:00:58.094 start my own business? 27 00:00:58.113 --> 00:01:00.416 And what if it will become a huge success? 28 00:01:01.479 --> 00:01:04.440 What if the whole world will start using my product, 29 00:01:04.479 --> 00:01:05.377 service or whatever? 30 00:01:06.158 --> 00:01:09.861 Will it become a new problem or will it be truly a solution? 31 00:01:10.283 --> 00:01:19.533 And then I found that most of the sustainable businesses only can become a new problem if they really scale up so 32 00:01:19.948 --> 00:01:20.489 For instance, 33 00:01:20.490 --> 00:01:21.509 a good example is, 34 00:01:21.710 --> 00:01:22.050 let's say, 35 00:01:22.271 --> 00:01:23.792 organic tea from Sri Lanka. 36 00:01:24.171 --> 00:01:26.913 If the whole world starts drinking organic tea, 37 00:01:26.976 --> 00:01:32.660 then they need to cut down more rainforests in Sri Lanka and create more monocultures to create this tea. 38 00:01:32.902 --> 00:01:41.746 And palm oil is a great example because palm oil is the most efficient plant-based oil we have found yet. 39 00:01:44.058 --> 00:01:44.871 So in the 40 00:01:45.667 --> 00:01:48.824 1980s, palm oil was the most sustainable oil there was. 41 00:01:49.124 --> 00:01:49.825 And then people are like, 42 00:01:49.865 --> 00:01:50.065 okay, 43 00:01:50.085 --> 00:01:50.206 yo, 44 00:01:50.265 --> 00:01:51.266 so this is sustainable. 45 00:01:51.526 --> 00:01:51.747 Yes, 46 00:01:51.967 --> 00:01:53.627 let's kill the shit out of this now. 47 00:01:53.909 --> 00:01:54.971 And then 40 years later, 48 00:01:55.049 --> 00:02:03.135 it's a huge problem because all rainforest is cut for palm oil production because the whole world started using palm oil. 49 00:02:04.237 --> 00:02:05.416 But it was so sustainable. 50 00:02:05.838 --> 00:02:05.979 Yeah, 51 00:02:06.541 --> 00:02:07.354 not on this scale. 52 00:02:08.557 --> 00:02:08.963 And for me, 53 00:02:09.026 --> 00:02:10.620 that was a really nice thought experiment. 54 00:02:10.885 --> 00:02:15.135 And I noticed that every time I did this experiment on a new product or whatever, 55 00:02:15.136 --> 00:02:15.651 and I thought like, 56 00:02:15.698 --> 00:02:15.870 yeah, 57 00:02:16.713 --> 00:02:16.838 no, 58 00:02:17.229 --> 00:02:18.713 it will become a new problem. 59 00:02:19.336 --> 00:02:19.937 eventually. 60 00:02:20.657 --> 00:02:22.499 And then I lost all my motivation. 61 00:02:22.899 --> 00:02:24.661 And so it wasn't really, 62 00:02:25.204 --> 00:02:28.368 I made it quite tough for myself to find the right. 63 00:02:28.704 --> 00:02:30.383 So while you were looking for business ideas, 64 00:02:31.110 --> 00:02:32.071 and for project ideas, 65 00:02:32.087 --> 00:02:33.829 and every time you would apply this, 66 00:02:34.251 --> 00:02:35.915 this thinking process, 67 00:02:35.946 --> 00:02:36.149 yes, 68 00:02:36.727 --> 00:02:38.696 you would come up with the conclusion. 69 00:02:38.852 --> 00:02:39.008 Yes. 70 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:40.071 And actually, 71 00:02:40.102 --> 00:02:40.540 they're like, 72 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:41.274 the two, 73 00:02:41.383 --> 00:02:41.680 like, 74 00:02:41.852 --> 00:02:45.618 or throw more garbage into this world by making products or whatever, 75 00:02:46.008 --> 00:02:47.321 or create more monocultures. 76 00:02:47.868 --> 00:02:48.571 And then it was like, 77 00:02:48.712 --> 00:02:48.852 ah! 78 00:02:49.032 --> 00:02:49.853 I don't want that. 79 00:02:53.176 --> 00:02:54.879 And then I found out about Commonland. 80 00:02:55.898 --> 00:02:58.781 I learned there's a Dutch documentary made about them. 81 00:02:59.359 --> 00:03:00.304 And I saw that. 82 00:03:00.383 --> 00:03:01.320 And then I felt like, 83 00:03:01.383 --> 00:03:01.664 wow, 84 00:03:01.742 --> 00:03:03.469 they have this model, 85 00:03:05.351 --> 00:03:08.804 which integrates a business model in nature restoration. 86 00:03:09.258 --> 00:03:09.726 And then for me, 87 00:03:09.727 --> 00:03:10.258 it was like, 88 00:03:10.539 --> 00:03:10.679 oh, 89 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:10.929 wow. 90 00:03:11.476 --> 00:03:15.820 So then you create a business model that creates more natural capital. 91 00:03:16.023 --> 00:03:18.008 or so the bigger this company becomes, 92 00:03:18.039 --> 00:03:18.445 the more... 93 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:20.001 Nature returns. 94 00:03:20.341 --> 00:03:20.721 And for me, 95 00:03:20.801 --> 00:03:22.044 that was like mind blowing. 96 00:03:22.063 --> 00:03:22.364 They're like, 97 00:03:22.424 --> 00:03:22.604 oh, 98 00:03:22.684 --> 00:03:22.924 wow, 99 00:03:23.124 --> 00:03:31.190 you can combine business like being really commercial and selling nice things and meanwhile creating more nature. 100 00:03:31.792 --> 00:03:37.815 If the starting point of a business is nature restoration or landscape restoration, 101 00:03:38.846 --> 00:03:39.081 then. 102 00:03:40.716 --> 00:03:40.856 Then, 103 00:03:40.976 --> 00:03:41.116 yeah, 104 00:03:41.277 --> 00:03:43.398 better make it big because the bigger, 105 00:03:43.399 --> 00:03:44.099 the more nature. 106 00:03:45.261 --> 00:03:51.003 And then I met Dan and he started working at Commonland. 107 00:03:51.464 --> 00:03:52.488 And a few years later, 108 00:03:52.909 --> 00:03:54.550 we coincidentally met again. 109 00:03:54.972 --> 00:03:55.488 And 110 00:03:55.933 --> 00:03:56.214 I said, 111 00:03:56.253 --> 00:03:56.370 yeah, 112 00:03:56.409 --> 00:03:59.542 I want to start a business and I'm hugely inspired by Commonland. 113 00:03:59.558 --> 00:04:00.230 And you work there. 114 00:04:00.231 --> 00:04:00.620 And he said, 115 00:04:00.683 --> 00:04:00.855 yeah, 116 00:04:01.620 --> 00:04:02.136 I work there, 117 00:04:02.152 --> 00:04:04.402 but I want to start my own business as well. 118 00:04:04.823 --> 00:04:05.605 And then we said like, 119 00:04:05.636 --> 00:04:05.839 okay, 120 00:04:06.277 --> 00:04:07.136 let's work together. 121 00:04:08.276 --> 00:04:17.015 And so we quit our jobs and we said we want to create a business in the Netherlands inspired by the Commonland model. 122 00:04:17.179 --> 00:04:18.515 And we had no clue what to do. 123 00:04:19.296 --> 00:04:20.437 So that's really unusual. 124 00:04:20.476 --> 00:04:24.624 Instead of starting with we want to do this product or we want to launch this service or this business, 125 00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:27.655 you started with we want to start by regenerating. 126 00:04:27.827 --> 00:04:28.015 Yes. 127 00:04:28.405 --> 00:04:33.155 And then we talked with a lot of farmers and also ecologists from the 128 00:04:33.608 --> 00:04:35.921 Veyland in the Netherlands and Commonland network. 129 00:04:36.562 --> 00:04:37.187 so we talked about 130 00:04:37.264 --> 00:04:59.950 with a lot of people and so we heard two things so the ecologist saying okay yeah if you want to do something that contributes to nature uh it's basically less monocultures and more native plants that's what you need to do okay um and we talked also with a lot of farmers and we talked we started talking with farmers because uh especially in the netherlands the the the biggest land 131 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:01.481 Users are farmers. 132 00:05:01.642 --> 00:05:02.703 So around 60% 133 00:05:03.184 --> 00:05:07.488 of the land in the Netherlands is managed by farmers. 134 00:05:08.289 --> 00:05:10.531 So then if you want to contribute to nature, 135 00:05:10.867 --> 00:05:13.312 let's start talking to the biggest land owner, 136 00:05:13.797 --> 00:05:14.531 the agricultural. 137 00:05:15.875 --> 00:05:18.922 And so we talked to these farmers and we said like, 138 00:05:18.984 --> 00:05:19.234 okay, 139 00:05:19.375 --> 00:05:23.766 we want to create a business together with you and find a business model. 140 00:05:23.906 --> 00:05:24.188 Actually, 141 00:05:24.797 --> 00:05:27.000 we were looking for a business model on biodiversity. 142 00:05:27.562 --> 00:05:28.625 So the more you sell, 143 00:05:28.626 --> 00:05:28.969 the more... 144 00:05:29.236 --> 00:05:44.888 the more biodiversity returns to your land and then all these farmers said we would love to do that we would love to be produced as sustainable as possible and and completely work together with nature and um basically 145 00:05:44.911 --> 00:05:56.966 they say like oh yeah sounds really great but there's only one thing there needs to be a market because we can do it as as agro ecological regenerative by the verse as possible, 146 00:05:57.263 --> 00:05:57.716 but if we 147 00:05:57.948 --> 00:06:16.279 cannot sell anything we will stop it and so we said okay yeah and so and we said yeah we heard it from these ecologists that that we need to plant more less monoculture and more native plants and then these farmers says yeah these are weeds we cannot make any money with weeds we 148 00:06:16.310 --> 00:06:26.122 said okay yeah sorry we back to these these these ecologists are like yeah you're talking about native plants what kind of plants are we talking about because don and i we didn't have any background in... 149 00:06:27.248 --> 00:06:44.318 agri or ecology or whatever and then it was like yeah chamomile dandelion plantain yarrow all these weeds and but then we said wait a minute you said chamomile and nettle and then we thought this sounds like tea right so chamomile tea and and 150 00:06:44.365 --> 00:06:53.068 then we thought firstly we thought this is too easy making local tea from from chamomile we thought that that must so this yeah 151 00:06:53.876 --> 00:06:55.977 If chamomile grows like weeds in the Netherlands, 152 00:06:56.337 --> 00:07:01.956 then probably there are already the chamomile tea we drink in the Netherlands is already coming from the Netherlands. 153 00:07:02.417 --> 00:07:09.276 Then we looked into that and we found out that most of the herbal tea is coming from even outside of Europe, 154 00:07:09.464 --> 00:07:11.714 like that it's from Egypt or India. 155 00:07:12.698 --> 00:07:13.354 And then we thought, 156 00:07:13.526 --> 00:07:13.635 oh, 157 00:07:13.636 --> 00:07:13.948 wow. 158 00:07:14.776 --> 00:07:17.854 so if more chamomile nettle these 159 00:07:18.024 --> 00:07:19.786 plants are great for biodiversity, 160 00:07:20.507 --> 00:07:21.888 then we can make tea from it. 161 00:07:22.168 --> 00:07:23.769 And if we can sell them locally, 162 00:07:24.332 --> 00:07:28.898 then we can create a business model on plants that are grown locally, 163 00:07:28.953 --> 00:07:30.414 that attract a lot of insects, 164 00:07:30.593 --> 00:07:34.062 and then we can pay the farmers for growing them. 165 00:07:34.828 --> 00:07:38.703 So that was the first step of finding like, 166 00:07:38.765 --> 00:07:38.890 oh, 167 00:07:38.906 --> 00:07:39.047 wow, 168 00:07:39.078 --> 00:07:41.062 this sounds like a business model. 169 00:07:41.812 --> 00:07:42.609 So then we thought like, 170 00:07:42.672 --> 00:07:42.781 oh, 171 00:07:42.968 --> 00:07:47.000 if we can create the market for these regeneratively grown... 172 00:07:47.640 --> 00:08:06.205 plants and create nice products from them we can create a market and if there's a market farmers will follow and and then there's like this big ambitious goal uh uh came into our minds like what if we can become the regenerative unilever and so to create a brand called wilderland with 173 00:08:06.346 --> 00:08:13.408 all kind of different products below that that are all super nice but that 174 00:08:13.604 --> 00:08:14.365 As a consumer, 175 00:08:14.405 --> 00:08:14.766 you know, 176 00:08:14.865 --> 00:08:16.508 if I buy something from wilderland, 177 00:08:17.047 --> 00:08:21.051 it's locally sourced and it's good for nature. 178 00:08:21.453 --> 00:08:22.692 It's nature recovering. 179 00:08:24.418 --> 00:08:29.895 And then herbal tea was the first product we started working on. 180 00:08:30.426 --> 00:08:31.942 So the idea behind is like, 181 00:08:32.020 --> 00:08:32.223 okay, 182 00:08:32.301 --> 00:08:38.629 let's ask farmers to grow more native plants on their field and pay them properly for them and ask them. 183 00:08:38.692 --> 00:08:41.926 So more native plants in a non-monoculture way. 184 00:08:42.629 --> 00:08:42.754 Ciao. 185 00:08:42.876 --> 00:08:44.658 That's the thing. 186 00:08:44.978 --> 00:08:45.939 So then we started. 187 00:08:45.959 --> 00:08:46.640 So in the beginning, 188 00:08:46.641 --> 00:08:47.121 we started, 189 00:08:47.122 --> 00:08:47.820 we had no clue. 190 00:08:47.941 --> 00:08:48.640 We had no idea. 191 00:08:49.164 --> 00:08:50.863 But the only thing we thought like, 192 00:08:50.886 --> 00:08:51.004 yeah, 193 00:08:51.386 --> 00:08:51.902 chamomile. 194 00:08:52.222 --> 00:08:54.004 If you put chamomile fresh in hot water, 195 00:08:54.425 --> 00:08:55.308 you have chamomile tea. 196 00:08:55.371 --> 00:08:57.847 And if you dry it and put it in hot water, 197 00:08:57.894 --> 00:08:58.988 you have chamomile tea as well. 198 00:08:59.785 --> 00:09:00.394 And in the beginning, 199 00:09:00.395 --> 00:09:02.597 we started with a few farmers, 200 00:09:02.754 --> 00:09:05.925 like more from the Weiland network. 201 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:07.601 And we asked them, 202 00:09:07.660 --> 00:09:07.860 yeah, 203 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:13.362 can we start experimenting growing herbs on your land because we want to make tea out of them? 204 00:09:13.843 --> 00:09:15.843 And a lot of farmers really laughed and like, 205 00:09:15.882 --> 00:09:16.124 what? 206 00:09:17.562 --> 00:09:20.460 You want to turn weeds into products? 207 00:09:20.562 --> 00:09:20.983 And we said, 208 00:09:21.163 --> 00:09:21.460 yes. 209 00:09:23.241 --> 00:09:27.460 Just a quick post to tell you about the official partner of the Deep Seed podcast, 210 00:09:27.538 --> 00:09:27.991 and that's 211 00:09:28.351 --> 00:09:29.023 Soil Capital. 212 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:33.788 Soil Capital is a company that accelerates the transition to regenerative agriculture. 213 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:37.863 by financially rewarding farmers who improve the health of their soils. 214 00:09:38.202 --> 00:09:39.663 They are an incredible company. 215 00:09:39.925 --> 00:09:44.171 I love what they're doing and I'm super proud to be partnering with them for the Deep Seed podcast. 216 00:09:46.054 --> 00:09:51.202 The thing with these weeds or native plants often is that they grow, 217 00:09:51.359 --> 00:09:53.781 they have been here for more than 10,000 years. 218 00:09:55.062 --> 00:09:56.202 And now we say, 219 00:09:56.281 --> 00:09:56.406 yeah, 220 00:09:56.546 --> 00:09:57.156 you're a weed, 221 00:09:57.499 --> 00:09:58.499 you don't belong here. 222 00:09:59.577 --> 00:10:01.593 So the ecological value of these. 223 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:03.863 native plants is huge. 224 00:10:04.002 --> 00:10:07.785 It's way better than non-native plants. 225 00:10:09.386 --> 00:10:12.711 So therefore weeds is a super strange word, 226 00:10:12.750 --> 00:10:17.593 because if you look into the wide variety of benefits they provide us with, 227 00:10:17.757 --> 00:10:19.398 like ecological benefits, 228 00:10:19.461 --> 00:10:20.179 not soil health, 229 00:10:20.211 --> 00:10:20.476 whatever, 230 00:10:21.554 --> 00:10:22.836 culinary benefits, 231 00:10:22.837 --> 00:10:23.367 then it's like, 232 00:10:23.414 --> 00:10:23.617 wow, 233 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:24.820 you're like a super, 234 00:10:25.257 --> 00:10:26.039 super plant. 235 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:29.070 Let's collaborate. 236 00:10:29.516 --> 00:10:30.137 By the way, 237 00:10:30.357 --> 00:10:31.998 for people watching the video version, 238 00:10:32.038 --> 00:10:33.741 I'm drinking a delicious... 239 00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:34.163 What is it? 240 00:10:34.164 --> 00:10:34.561 A smoky, 241 00:10:34.823 --> 00:10:35.260 holy smoky blend? 242 00:10:35.261 --> 00:10:35.842 Holy smoky, 243 00:10:35.881 --> 00:10:36.002 yeah. 244 00:10:36.663 --> 00:10:37.741 It is absolutely delicious. 245 00:10:37.842 --> 00:10:38.748 What's in this one? 246 00:10:39.788 --> 00:10:41.069 It's smoked birch leaf, 247 00:10:41.428 --> 00:10:42.272 meadow sweet, 248 00:10:42.405 --> 00:10:44.108 and water mint. 249 00:10:45.373 --> 00:10:45.827 And actually, 250 00:10:46.108 --> 00:10:52.592 this flavor of the holy smoky was even inspired by the peatlands. 251 00:10:53.420 --> 00:11:08.246 and we try to so the peatlands are in the they used to harvest peat from there like in the past centuries which has this smoky flavor to it and now actually by choosing these plants so that the 252 00:11:10.581 --> 00:11:34.952 challenge of the peatlands is that that they need to be re-watered again or so now they're too dry and there needs to become more water so we choose these plants that are all that that could all benefit that landscape benefit that landscape and create the wetlands again so by drinking more holy smoky you're regenerating the peatlands how cool is that yeah amazing yeah yeah because if we need more birch leaf then we say to the farmers 253 00:11:35.209 --> 00:11:40.052 Please plant more birches on your land and more water mint and more meadow sweet. 254 00:11:40.071 --> 00:11:40.349 And yeah, 255 00:11:40.431 --> 00:11:42.411 you need more wetlands. 256 00:11:43.169 --> 00:11:44.669 So then all benefits. 257 00:11:45.271 --> 00:11:45.950 And then farmers say, 258 00:11:45.951 --> 00:11:46.208 oh yeah, 259 00:11:46.209 --> 00:11:49.911 if I can make money by growing birch and meadow sweet, 260 00:11:49.974 --> 00:11:50.411 of course, 261 00:11:51.497 --> 00:11:52.247 I'll integrate it.