And in the beginning,
we started with a few farmers and we asked them,
yeah,
can we start experimenting growing herbs on your land because we want to make tea out of them.
And a lot of farmers really laughed and like,
what?
You want to turn weeds into products?
And we said,
yes.
And one thing that I learned is that I wasn't inspired at all by the way sustainability was done or treated in these big,
big companies.
I always felt like,
yeah,
this is doing less bad.
So,
yeah,
who cares?
Why not be more ambitious?
So then I realized,
yeah,
that sustainability wasn't it for me because it felt like,
yeah,
it's less bad.
And I did this thought experiment with myself.
So what if I...
start my own business?
And what if it will become a huge success?
What if the whole world will start using my product,
service or whatever?
Will it become a new problem or will it be truly a solution?
And then I found that most of the sustainable businesses only can become a new problem if they really scale up so
For instance,
a good example is,
let's say,
organic tea from Sri Lanka.
If the whole world starts drinking organic tea,
then they need to cut down more rainforests in Sri Lanka and create more monocultures to create this tea.
And palm oil is a great example because palm oil is the most efficient plant-based oil we have found yet.
So in the
1980s, palm oil was the most sustainable oil there was.
And then people are like,
okay,
yo,
so this is sustainable.
Yes,
let's kill the shit out of this now.
And then 40 years later,
it's a huge problem because all rainforest is cut for palm oil production because the whole world started using palm oil.
But it was so sustainable.
Yeah,
not on this scale.
And for me,
that was a really nice thought experiment.
And I noticed that every time I did this experiment on a new product or whatever,
and I thought like,
yeah,
no,
it will become a new problem.
eventually.
And then I lost all my motivation.
And so it wasn't really,
I made it quite tough for myself to find the right.
So while you were looking for business ideas,
and for project ideas,
and every time you would apply this,
this thinking process,
yes,
you would come up with the conclusion.
Yes.
And actually,
they're like,
the two,
like,
or throw more garbage into this world by making products or whatever,
or create more monocultures.
And then it was like,
ah!
I don't want that.
And then I found out about Commonland.
I learned there's a Dutch documentary made about them.
And I saw that.
And then I felt like,
wow,
they have this model,
which integrates a business model in nature restoration.
And then for me,
it was like,
oh,
wow.
So then you create a business model that creates more natural capital.
or so the bigger this company becomes,
the more...
Nature returns.
And for me,
that was like mind blowing.
They're like,
oh,
wow,
you can combine business like being really commercial and selling nice things and meanwhile creating more nature.
If the starting point of a business is nature restoration or landscape restoration,
then.
Then,
yeah,
better make it big because the bigger,
the more nature.
And then I met Dan and he started working at Commonland.
And a few years later,
we coincidentally met again.
And
I said,
yeah,
I want to start a business and I'm hugely inspired by Commonland.
And you work there.
And he said,
yeah,
I work there,
but I want to start my own business as well.
And then we said like,
okay,
let's work together.
And so we quit our jobs and we said we want to create a business in the Netherlands inspired by the Commonland model.
And we had no clue what to do.
So that's really unusual.
Instead of starting with we want to do this product or we want to launch this service or this business,
you started with we want to start by regenerating.
Yes.
And then we talked with a lot of farmers and also ecologists from the
Veyland in the Netherlands and Commonland network.
so we talked about
with a lot of people and so we heard two things so the ecologist saying okay yeah if you want to do something that contributes to nature uh it's basically less monocultures and more native plants that's what you need to do okay um and we talked also with a lot of farmers and we talked we started talking with farmers because uh especially in the netherlands the the the biggest land
Users are farmers.
So around 60%
of the land in the Netherlands is managed by farmers.
So then if you want to contribute to nature,
let's start talking to the biggest land owner,
the agricultural.
And so we talked to these farmers and we said like,
okay,
we want to create a business together with you and find a business model.
Actually,
we were looking for a business model on biodiversity.
So the more you sell,
the more...
the more biodiversity returns to your land and then all these farmers said we would love to do that we would love to be produced as sustainable as possible and and completely work together with nature and um basically
they say like oh yeah sounds really great but there's only one thing there needs to be a market because we can do it as as agro ecological regenerative by the verse as possible,
but if we
cannot sell anything we will stop it and so we said okay yeah and so and we said yeah we heard it from these ecologists that that we need to plant more less monoculture and more native plants and then these farmers says yeah these are weeds we cannot make any money with weeds we
said okay yeah sorry we back to these these these ecologists are like yeah you're talking about native plants what kind of plants are we talking about because don and i we didn't have any background in...
agri or ecology or whatever and then it was like yeah chamomile dandelion plantain yarrow all these weeds and but then we said wait a minute you said chamomile and nettle and then we thought this sounds like tea right so chamomile tea and and
then we thought firstly we thought this is too easy making local tea from from chamomile we thought that that must so this yeah
If chamomile grows like weeds in the Netherlands,
then probably there are already the chamomile tea we drink in the Netherlands is already coming from the Netherlands.
Then we looked into that and we found out that most of the herbal tea is coming from even outside of Europe,
like that it's from Egypt or India.
And then we thought,
oh,
wow.
so if more chamomile nettle these
plants are great for biodiversity,
then we can make tea from it.
And if we can sell them locally,
then we can create a business model on plants that are grown locally,
that attract a lot of insects,
and then we can pay the farmers for growing them.
So that was the first step of finding like,
oh,
wow,
this sounds like a business model.
So then we thought like,
oh,
if we can create the market for these regeneratively grown...
plants and create nice products from them we can create a market and if there's a market farmers will follow and and then there's like this big ambitious goal uh uh came into our minds like what if we can become the regenerative unilever and so to create a brand called wilderland with
all kind of different products below that that are all super nice but that
As a consumer,
you know,
if I buy something from wilderland,
it's locally sourced and it's good for nature.
It's nature recovering.
And then herbal tea was the first product we started working on.
So the idea behind is like,
okay,
let's ask farmers to grow more native plants on their field and pay them properly for them and ask them.
So more native plants in a non-monoculture way.
Ciao.
That's the thing.
So then we started.
So in the beginning,
we started,
we had no clue.
We had no idea.
But the only thing we thought like,
yeah,
chamomile.
If you put chamomile fresh in hot water,
you have chamomile tea.
And if you dry it and put it in hot water,
you have chamomile tea as well.
And in the beginning,
we started with a few farmers,
like more from the Weiland network.
And we asked them,
yeah,
can we start experimenting growing herbs on your land because we want to make tea out of them?
And a lot of farmers really laughed and like,
what?
You want to turn weeds into products?
And we said,
yes.
Just a quick post to tell you about the official partner of the Deep Seed podcast,
and that's
Soil Capital.
Soil Capital is a company that accelerates the transition to regenerative agriculture.
by financially rewarding farmers who improve the health of their soils.
They are an incredible company.
I love what they're doing and I'm super proud to be partnering with them for the Deep Seed podcast.
The thing with these weeds or native plants often is that they grow,
they have been here for more than 10,000 years.
And now we say,
yeah,
you're a weed,
you don't belong here.
So the ecological value of these.
native plants is huge.
It's way better than non-native plants.
So therefore weeds is a super strange word,
because if you look into the wide variety of benefits they provide us with,
like ecological benefits,
not soil health,
whatever,
culinary benefits,
then it's like,
wow,
you're like a super,
super plant.
Let's collaborate.
By the way,
for people watching the video version,
I'm drinking a delicious...
What is it?
A smoky,
holy smoky blend?
Holy smoky,
yeah.
It is absolutely delicious.
What's in this one?
It's smoked birch leaf,
meadow sweet,
and water mint.
And actually,
this flavor of the holy smoky was even inspired by the peatlands.
and we try to so the peatlands are in the they used to harvest peat from there like in the past centuries which has this smoky flavor to it and now actually by choosing these plants so that the
challenge of the peatlands is that that they need to be re-watered again or so now they're too dry and there needs to become more water so we choose these plants that are all that that could all benefit that landscape benefit that landscape and create the wetlands again so by drinking more holy smoky you're regenerating the peatlands how cool is that yeah amazing yeah yeah because if we need more birch leaf then we say to the farmers
Please plant more birches on your land and more water mint and more meadow sweet.
And yeah,
you need more wetlands.
So then all benefits.
And then farmers say,
oh yeah,
if I can make money by growing birch and meadow sweet,
of course,
I'll integrate it.