WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.568 --> 00:00:04.768 My name is Marion Boswell. 2 00:00:05.249 --> 00:00:06.409 I'm a landscape architect. 3 00:00:07.009 --> 00:00:11.990 And my personal story began when I was four. 4 00:00:13.291 --> 00:00:18.252 I camped outside in a den with my sister in the garden. 5 00:00:19.052 --> 00:00:24.294 And I woke up in the night needing to go to the loo and I was terrified of the dark. 6 00:00:24.854 --> 00:00:30.936 And I peered outside this den and was trying to get sort of from here to the house, 7 00:00:30.976 --> 00:00:31.856 which wasn't too far. 8 00:00:33.244 --> 00:00:37.466 And just didn't know how I was going to get there in the dark and the bogeyman and the fright. 9 00:00:37.486 --> 00:00:38.266 I was so afraid. 10 00:00:38.666 --> 00:00:41.107 And suddenly I saw sitting on a bench, 11 00:00:42.488 --> 00:00:44.609 on a chair with a rug over her knees, 12 00:00:45.049 --> 00:00:45.749 my grandmother. 13 00:00:46.470 --> 00:00:49.471 And she'd been sitting up all night to look after us. 14 00:00:50.011 --> 00:00:54.113 And her being there transformed this terrifying, 15 00:00:54.733 --> 00:01:00.716 scary nighttime full of wild creatures into a place of magic and wonder. 16 00:01:01.256 --> 00:01:03.417 and a place that I could explore. 17 00:01:04.357 --> 00:01:04.657 And 18 00:01:05.037 --> 00:01:06.417 I could smell the roses, 19 00:01:06.437 --> 00:01:07.858 and I remember how warm it was, 20 00:01:07.878 --> 00:01:14.280 and I remember the feeling of just deep connection with all the other plants and with all the beings in the garden. 21 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:19.521 And that essence of there being a garden full of love, 22 00:01:19.641 --> 00:01:21.041 which my grandmother brought to it, 23 00:01:21.062 --> 00:01:25.763 is something which I've tried to recreate in every garden that I have made ever since. 24 00:01:26.723 --> 00:01:29.864 And really that was where my journey began. 25 00:01:31.436 --> 00:01:39.542 Fast forward many years in search of validation and achievement and an Oxford degree. 26 00:01:39.602 --> 00:01:41.343 And I worked for a management consultancy. 27 00:01:42.264 --> 00:01:45.726 And my world imploded when my second daughter died. 28 00:01:46.526 --> 00:01:46.767 And 29 00:01:47.107 --> 00:01:55.313 I left the world of sort of corporate and decided to return to that very special place of the garden where I'd started. 30 00:01:56.553 --> 00:01:59.015 And so I decided to teach myself how to. 31 00:02:00.500 --> 00:02:01.680 I knew how to garden, 32 00:02:01.700 --> 00:02:02.881 but how to really garden. 33 00:02:03.461 --> 00:02:05.781 So I studied horticulture, 34 00:02:05.821 --> 00:02:06.902 advanced horticulture, 35 00:02:06.903 --> 00:02:07.722 garden history, 36 00:02:08.022 --> 00:02:08.902 garden design, 37 00:02:09.242 --> 00:02:11.023 and finally landscape architecture. 38 00:02:11.763 --> 00:02:15.124 And about 25 years ago, 39 00:02:15.644 --> 00:02:17.685 I set up my landscape architecture practice. 40 00:02:18.365 --> 00:02:20.966 And really from there is where it's all begun. 41 00:02:21.046 --> 00:02:22.766 That's where it all started. 42 00:02:24.867 --> 00:02:26.967 I was designing lovely spaces. 43 00:02:26.987 --> 00:02:29.588 I was invited back to lecture at Greenwich University. 44 00:02:30.132 --> 00:02:32.333 And I lectured in historic garden conservation. 45 00:02:32.393 --> 00:02:38.134 So a lot of the work that my studio was given was to do with historic houses and estates. 46 00:02:38.914 --> 00:02:42.175 And gradually I began to ask them what they were doing over the fence, 47 00:02:42.615 --> 00:02:43.376 what they were doing, 48 00:02:44.176 --> 00:02:45.116 not just in the garden, 49 00:02:45.156 --> 00:02:46.997 but how they were working with their woodlands. 50 00:02:47.937 --> 00:02:55.159 And I began to be much more interested in nature recovery projects and working with re-wiggling rivers, 51 00:02:55.459 --> 00:02:56.699 re-flooding floodplains, 52 00:02:57.059 --> 00:02:59.160 building up woodlands and creating natural... 53 00:02:59.340 --> 00:02:59.940 corridors. 54 00:03:00.801 --> 00:03:09.304 But it was only maybe four or five years ago that I suddenly realized what was happening in the middle of the field. 55 00:03:09.784 --> 00:03:13.246 And I had never thought about how our food was grown. 56 00:03:14.026 --> 00:03:15.687 And when I understood, 57 00:03:16.387 --> 00:03:17.007 I have to say, 58 00:03:18.188 --> 00:03:19.549 I was a little bit horrified. 59 00:03:21.089 --> 00:03:23.450 I was giving a talk on land energy one day, 60 00:03:24.050 --> 00:03:27.432 and a lady came up to me at the end of the talk. 61 00:03:27.772 --> 00:03:29.192 And she had tears in her eyes. 62 00:03:29.693 --> 00:03:30.273 And she said, 63 00:03:30.573 --> 00:03:32.553 I am a grower, 64 00:03:32.753 --> 00:03:34.254 a large scale radish grower, 65 00:03:34.274 --> 00:03:35.854 actually she was in eastern England. 66 00:03:36.234 --> 00:03:39.095 And she grew millions of radishes and had done for years. 67 00:03:39.195 --> 00:03:42.596 And every year the agronomist came and tested her soil. 68 00:03:43.656 --> 00:03:44.437 And this year, 69 00:03:44.757 --> 00:03:45.397 she said to me, 70 00:03:45.637 --> 00:03:48.558 this year they say my soil is basically dead. 71 00:03:49.398 --> 00:03:50.078 What do I do? 72 00:03:51.059 --> 00:03:53.059 And I realized I didn't have that answer. 73 00:03:54.019 --> 00:03:54.760 So from there, 74 00:03:55.060 --> 00:03:56.060 I kind of made it my. 75 00:03:56.664 --> 00:03:57.605 my next chapter, 76 00:03:57.645 --> 00:03:58.125 if you like, 77 00:03:58.126 --> 00:04:00.567 to understand how we grow our food, 78 00:04:00.867 --> 00:04:01.948 how soil works, 79 00:04:02.629 --> 00:04:04.931 and how we can do better, 80 00:04:04.971 --> 00:04:07.513 how we can grow better for our microbes, 81 00:04:07.514 --> 00:04:08.133 for our guts, 82 00:04:08.714 --> 00:04:09.094 and for 83 00:04:09.735 --> 00:04:10.535 Gaia as a whole. 84 00:04:11.156 --> 00:04:12.677 And that's been the last bit of my journey. 85 00:04:12.837 --> 00:04:13.798 So yes, 86 00:04:13.818 --> 00:04:14.979 that's kind of the long version, 87 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:16.340 but those are the different segments, 88 00:04:16.341 --> 00:04:16.781 if you like, 89 00:04:16.782 --> 00:04:17.701 and that's where I am now. 90 00:04:20.364 --> 00:04:22.465 You mentioned land energy? 91 00:04:22.946 --> 00:04:23.466 Is that right? 92 00:04:23.486 --> 00:04:25.608 Could you maybe tell me what that is about? 93 00:04:26.324 --> 00:04:26.604 Sure. 94 00:04:27.725 --> 00:04:27.846 So, 95 00:04:28.606 --> 00:04:28.847 I mean, 96 00:04:28.907 --> 00:04:29.587 everything's energy. 97 00:04:29.687 --> 00:04:30.248 We're energy. 98 00:04:32.570 --> 00:04:36.414 We're beginning to understand more and more with quantum biology, 99 00:04:36.554 --> 00:04:37.595 quantum physics and so on, 100 00:04:37.775 --> 00:04:40.237 that everything is energy. 101 00:04:40.758 --> 00:04:43.520 And land energy is an important part of that. 102 00:04:43.721 --> 00:04:50.687 And I'm really interested in how to work with some of the more subtle energies with both the visible and the invisible. 103 00:04:51.852 --> 00:04:52.673 Like if I meet you, 104 00:04:53.073 --> 00:04:55.035 there's a certain energy which we can both feel. 105 00:04:55.075 --> 00:04:56.216 And sometimes you can feel, 106 00:04:56.617 --> 00:04:57.337 if you meet someone, 107 00:04:57.357 --> 00:04:59.419 that there's a good energy and it's all going to be great. 108 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:00.520 And sometimes, 109 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:01.821 particularly if you're sensitive, 110 00:05:01.822 --> 00:05:03.481 you can feel that it's not so great. 111 00:05:03.482 --> 00:05:04.581 And it's the same with land. 112 00:05:05.201 --> 00:05:09.783 The layers of things which have happened in a place all leave a memory. 113 00:05:10.563 --> 00:05:12.664 And we can work to heal that energy, 114 00:05:13.564 --> 00:05:16.885 or we can just live with what's been left behind by others. 115 00:05:16.886 --> 00:05:17.665 It's usually people, 116 00:05:18.105 --> 00:05:18.545 other people, 117 00:05:18.546 --> 00:05:19.365 but other events. 118 00:05:20.786 --> 00:05:22.606 Or we can work to make it better. 119 00:05:22.986 --> 00:05:28.568 So I'm very interested in how we can work regeneratively in landscape design. 120 00:05:28.928 --> 00:05:30.609 And that includes working with the energy. 121 00:05:31.089 --> 00:05:31.209 So, 122 00:05:31.489 --> 00:05:32.129 for example, 123 00:05:32.510 --> 00:05:43.494 I often put in a labyrinth in a space because that's a fantastic concentration of energy and a healing point for where land energy can go. 124 00:05:44.815 --> 00:05:45.875 Might plant trees. 125 00:05:46.295 --> 00:05:47.896 Some people use earth acupuncture. 126 00:05:47.956 --> 00:05:49.957 Some people place standing stones. 127 00:05:50.177 --> 00:05:50.417 I mean, 128 00:05:50.517 --> 00:05:50.817 obviously, 129 00:05:50.917 --> 00:05:51.498 Stonehenge, 130 00:05:51.499 --> 00:05:52.998 you'll have seen wonderful, 131 00:05:53.478 --> 00:05:54.059 on your trips, 132 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:57.160 you'll have seen wonderful standing stones in different places. 133 00:05:57.540 --> 00:06:00.362 These are all ways really of connecting man, 134 00:06:00.702 --> 00:06:00.922 woman, 135 00:06:00.942 --> 00:06:01.162 you know, 136 00:06:01.422 --> 00:06:03.423 people to something much bigger. 137 00:06:04.544 --> 00:06:07.246 Like Rudolf Steiner was very interested in. 138 00:06:08.026 --> 00:06:11.408 It's a question of just working with these subtle energies. 139 00:06:11.988 --> 00:06:12.909 So that's something which 140 00:06:15.070 --> 00:06:18.012 I don't always talk about when I'm working with clients. 141 00:06:18.212 --> 00:06:19.072 If they were interested, 142 00:06:19.112 --> 00:06:20.193 then I explain it to them. 143 00:06:20.753 --> 00:06:25.736 But it's something which we're always bringing to the party as part of. 144 00:06:26.236 --> 00:06:27.697 a complete regenerative toolbox. 145 00:06:29.018 --> 00:06:29.498 Fantastic. 146 00:06:30.258 --> 00:06:32.320 Since you mentioned the spiral, 147 00:06:32.580 --> 00:06:36.062 maybe you can move on to that part of the garden and you can show us what this is all about. 148 00:06:36.102 --> 00:06:36.222 Yeah, 149 00:06:36.282 --> 00:06:36.522 lovely. 150 00:06:39.964 --> 00:06:44.727 You're standing right in the center of that spiral you were just telling us about a minute ago. 151 00:06:44.927 --> 00:06:48.309 Could you tell us more about it? 152 00:06:48.310 --> 00:06:48.409 So, 153 00:06:48.889 --> 00:06:49.049 well, 154 00:06:49.089 --> 00:06:52.071 you just experienced the slight lift that you get in the center here. 155 00:06:52.072 --> 00:06:54.052 So this is a natural energy point. 156 00:06:54.688 --> 00:06:57.510 But it's doing a few things as a spiral. 157 00:06:57.930 --> 00:07:00.692 One is that it's a wonderful energy point. 158 00:07:01.112 --> 00:07:05.494 The other is that it's a meditation spiral. 159 00:07:05.554 --> 00:07:09.357 So there are seven loops for the seven chakras. 160 00:07:09.957 --> 00:07:10.597 And it's, 161 00:07:10.897 --> 00:07:11.198 in fact, 162 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:11.758 in lockdown, 163 00:07:11.798 --> 00:07:14.099 I did some lovely sort of meditation videos, 164 00:07:14.139 --> 00:07:17.681 which people really appreciated just to connect. 165 00:07:17.721 --> 00:07:21.844 It's a wonderful way of connecting and being mindful because... 166 00:07:22.224 --> 00:07:22.724 A bit like, 167 00:07:22.725 --> 00:07:22.944 you know, 168 00:07:23.084 --> 00:07:26.186 how your gut is looped up so much as the size of a tennis court. 169 00:07:26.466 --> 00:07:28.487 If you do this even in a small garden, 170 00:07:28.507 --> 00:07:33.489 it makes the garden so much bigger because it takes about five minutes to do this whole meditation, 171 00:07:33.989 --> 00:07:36.310 whereas in walking around in circles, 172 00:07:36.450 --> 00:07:37.950 whereas if you just walked across this lawn, 173 00:07:37.970 --> 00:07:39.591 it would be a really small lawn. 174 00:07:40.972 --> 00:07:42.532 My dog uses it as a racetrack, 175 00:07:42.632 --> 00:07:44.313 which is not quite meditative, 176 00:07:44.333 --> 00:07:45.474 but it still works really well. 177 00:07:45.994 --> 00:07:51.316 The other thing which is really important for its use is that it has... 178 00:07:51.536 --> 00:08:20.472 increases the edges of things so much and the edges is where the magic happens so the liminal spaces we have so much forage here with things like this chicory which actually I planted for the depth of the roots because we're on heavy wielding clay but it's still flowering now and so that's forage for lots of pollinators but it's also habitat for loads of pollinators and and spiders and we have the um the wasp spider which was quite rare until a couple of years ago I first I saw it at NEP and I thought it was the most... 179 00:08:20.732 --> 00:08:38.642 exotic thing but we have it here now um we have orchids because i used strewings from great dickster hay so the the biodiversity here is just huge and in such a really small space so it's a lovely thing to do in a smaller garden that people that people can do and 180 00:08:38.643 --> 00:08:49.008 it's so simple so i i can show you a picture but basically all you need is a lawnmower and a stick and the stick is the width of the lawnmower and you start in the middle and you just 181 00:08:49.648 --> 00:09:05.477 mow round in circles and hey presto you have a wonderful uh wonderful spiral um and also here we're lucky that we are by tall trees and hedges so that increases the biodiversity even more and i have had um andy 182 00:09:05.937 --> 00:09:18.704 um phillips from uh he also did the great dickster biodiversity audit and a few other people and he's come here for the last couple of years and mapped um the amount of creatures that we're now living with. 183 00:09:19.444 --> 00:09:21.405 It's just gone off the scale. 184 00:09:21.765 --> 00:09:22.265 Some lovely, 185 00:09:22.345 --> 00:09:27.726 really rare things which have come here just because we've created more habitat. 186 00:09:28.647 --> 00:09:29.347 That's wonderful. 187 00:09:32.528 --> 00:09:38.409 Could you talk to us about the importance of beauty for gardening, 188 00:09:38.509 --> 00:09:39.189 for agriculture, 189 00:09:39.209 --> 00:09:40.850 but also just for people, 190 00:09:40.910 --> 00:09:41.630 for human health, 191 00:09:41.670 --> 00:09:43.471 for what it brings us? 192 00:09:43.931 --> 00:09:44.131 Oh, 193 00:09:44.132 --> 00:09:44.291 yes, 194 00:09:44.292 --> 00:09:45.031 what a lovely question, 195 00:09:45.131 --> 00:09:47.892 particularly when we're standing in such a beautiful place here. 196 00:09:50.772 --> 00:09:51.413 I love the 197 00:09:51.933 --> 00:09:55.676 Scott Fitzgerald quote when he said, 198 00:09:56.937 --> 00:09:57.758 she was beautiful, 199 00:09:57.918 --> 00:09:59.700 but not like the girls in the magazines. 200 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:01.722 It's beautiful for the way that she thought. 201 00:10:02.642 --> 00:10:02.923 And 202 00:10:03.303 --> 00:10:08.487 I think that beauty is something which shines from within rather than being a surface thing. 203 00:10:09.388 --> 00:10:14.252 So some people would look at my garden and think it was quite kind of scruffy, 204 00:10:14.553 --> 00:10:22.760 but I think it's like a woman who is very comfortable in her skin and will throw on comfortable clothes and feel great. 205 00:10:23.421 --> 00:10:23.901 And for me, 206 00:10:24.021 --> 00:10:27.364 beauty is about that feeling you get you 207 00:10:27.560 --> 00:10:29.882 when you can feel a good intention, 208 00:10:30.382 --> 00:10:34.746 a good intention of a person or the love that's left in a place, 209 00:10:35.306 --> 00:10:36.547 but also is the aesthetic. 210 00:10:36.607 --> 00:10:36.728 So, 211 00:10:36.768 --> 00:10:37.008 I mean, 212 00:10:37.048 --> 00:10:38.169 here we're particularly lucky. 213 00:10:38.189 --> 00:10:42.292 So I'm standing next to three beautiful trees. 214 00:10:42.432 --> 00:10:42.913 One is, 215 00:10:43.433 --> 00:10:44.414 two are English natives. 216 00:10:44.854 --> 00:10:46.596 One is our lovely ash tree, 217 00:10:47.116 --> 00:10:48.337 which is the Fraxinus, 218 00:10:48.377 --> 00:10:49.258 which is a gorgeous, 219 00:10:49.718 --> 00:10:50.599 beautiful tree. 220 00:10:51.059 --> 00:10:51.520 Then I have 221 00:10:52.668 --> 00:10:53.769 Sorbus tauminalis, 222 00:10:53.829 --> 00:10:55.891 which is an ancient woodland indicator, 223 00:10:55.892 --> 00:10:56.411 which is a really, 224 00:10:56.591 --> 00:10:57.512 really special tree. 225 00:10:58.153 --> 00:10:59.814 Then I have this lovely liquid amber, 226 00:10:59.854 --> 00:11:02.196 which is very bright and sweet gum, 227 00:11:02.596 --> 00:11:04.218 which is a North American native, 228 00:11:04.658 --> 00:11:08.701 but sits very well in our climate as well. 229 00:11:09.402 --> 00:11:10.383 And at this time of year, 230 00:11:10.423 --> 00:11:17.428 when you come outside and you're just embraced by all these colours and the energy that that gives us, 231 00:11:17.568 --> 00:11:18.189 our eyes, 232 00:11:19.110 --> 00:11:21.732 and the feeling that transmits all the way through us. 233 00:11:22.660 --> 00:11:23.860 is so good for our health. 234 00:11:24.281 --> 00:11:25.441 And if you can get outside, 235 00:11:25.442 --> 00:11:26.521 if you're feeling a bit miserable, 236 00:11:26.522 --> 00:11:34.283 if you can get outside and see something beautiful or listen to a piece of amazing music or taste something delicious or smell, 237 00:11:34.624 --> 00:11:37.024 we came past these sassidophyllum on the way here, 238 00:11:37.025 --> 00:11:38.445 which smells like candy floss, 239 00:11:38.825 --> 00:11:40.465 that delicious kind of toffee scent. 240 00:11:41.005 --> 00:11:45.747 And all of these things are signals to our bodies that all is well in the world. 241 00:11:46.107 --> 00:11:49.348 And that's so important because we can listen to 242 00:11:50.288 --> 00:12:17.507 other humans who are constantly telling us that everything's terrible and if we're not careful we can believe that and and maybe i i sometimes think you know if chicken nicken says that the sky is going to fall on my head maybe it is but do you know what i'm going to enjoy every moment until it does so beauty is is just one of those things which helps us to do that and to feel that we're part of nature that we're connected that we are all one i'm 243 00:12:17.667 --> 00:12:19.728 talking about health you 244 00:12:20.088 --> 00:12:35.118 mental health and physical health how else can we take better care of our health physically and mentally uh gosh that's a big question but uh and i'm not a doctor but i'll answer from my own personal experience uh 245 00:12:35.119 --> 00:12:48.928 so we talked about beauty and sensory pleasure which is amazing to feel connected i think that feeling of connection and community is so key because uh if you're alone you can really sort of get stuck in your own mind. 246 00:12:49.292 --> 00:12:55.677 But if you go out for a walk either and then are in the company of all beings or all other human beings, 247 00:12:56.018 --> 00:12:57.579 you immediately feel better. 248 00:12:57.959 --> 00:13:01.222 So there's that mental understanding. 249 00:13:01.242 --> 00:13:03.004 I think gratitude is really important. 250 00:13:03.084 --> 00:13:10.530 Sort of gratitude practice of coming from a place of thankfulness and understanding abundance. 251 00:13:10.531 --> 00:13:12.271 If you have an abundance mindset, 252 00:13:12.732 --> 00:13:13.773 then more comes. 253 00:13:14.433 --> 00:13:17.536 It's an extraordinary truth that more comes from more. 254 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:20.142 So in terms of mental health, 255 00:13:20.182 --> 00:13:21.282 I think those really help. 256 00:13:21.923 --> 00:13:24.645 I think setting clear boundaries is very important. 257 00:13:25.426 --> 00:13:35.113 And one of the things I think that we can get into a trap with these days is around money and thinking that money is the only energy. 258 00:13:35.653 --> 00:13:37.334 Sometimes people will say, 259 00:13:38.235 --> 00:13:38.475 well, 260 00:13:38.615 --> 00:13:38.835 you know, 261 00:13:38.876 --> 00:13:39.956 you're paid to do this, 262 00:13:40.056 --> 00:13:42.418 therefore you must do such and such. 263 00:13:42.939 --> 00:13:43.459 But actually, 264 00:13:44.400 --> 00:13:44.700 I have... 265 00:13:45.580 --> 00:13:53.185 My team know that I would explain to them money is only one of the many energy exchanges that we partake in as a society. 266 00:13:53.565 --> 00:13:54.626 It's a very important one, 267 00:13:54.627 --> 00:13:55.686 but it's not the only one. 268 00:13:56.127 --> 00:14:02.971 So understanding that we are free and that there is so much abundance around is so liberating. 269 00:14:03.011 --> 00:14:05.772 I think that's incredibly good for our mental health as well. 270 00:14:07.213 --> 00:14:07.974 Physical health, 271 00:14:08.834 --> 00:14:08.954 well, 272 00:14:08.955 --> 00:14:09.835 we are what we eat. 273 00:14:10.075 --> 00:14:11.916 So that all comes down to soil. 274 00:14:12.116 --> 00:14:13.317 It comes down to seed. 275 00:14:13.377 --> 00:14:14.657 It comes down to the plants. 276 00:14:15.078 --> 00:14:18.640 It comes down to nutrient density. 277 00:14:19.040 --> 00:14:20.120 So eating really well, 278 00:14:20.981 --> 00:14:21.581 avoiding, 279 00:14:21.641 --> 00:14:21.901 I mean, 280 00:14:22.522 --> 00:14:24.163 people are very quite aware of this now, 281 00:14:24.203 --> 00:14:27.024 but avoiding ultra processed foods, 282 00:14:27.464 --> 00:14:29.265 avoiding too much processed sugar, 283 00:14:30.786 --> 00:14:32.387 avoiding too much of anything really. 284 00:14:32.587 --> 00:14:33.928 And so that, 285 00:14:34.328 --> 00:14:34.588 I mean, 286 00:14:35.028 --> 00:14:37.530 I'm not very good at moderation myself, 287 00:14:37.990 --> 00:14:38.190 but 288 00:14:39.091 --> 00:14:40.431 I do love to eat really well. 289 00:14:40.451 --> 00:14:41.292 And I think that makes a... 290 00:14:41.708 --> 00:14:42.328 A huge, 291 00:14:42.989 --> 00:14:43.669 huge difference. 292 00:14:43.990 --> 00:14:45.531 When I say I'm not very good at moderation, 293 00:14:45.751 --> 00:14:46.011 I mean, 294 00:14:46.031 --> 00:14:46.451 I don't, 295 00:14:47.832 --> 00:14:49.373 I wouldn't go overboard on what I eat, 296 00:14:49.473 --> 00:14:49.593 but, 297 00:14:49.613 --> 00:14:49.853 you know, 298 00:14:50.074 --> 00:14:52.015 I'd like to go down a major rabbit hole. 299 00:14:52.395 --> 00:14:53.876 So if I'm interested in something, 300 00:14:53.896 --> 00:14:55.937 that's what I mean by not being into moderation. 301 00:14:55.977 --> 00:14:56.978 I would like my soil, 302 00:14:56.998 --> 00:14:57.218 you know, 303 00:14:57.219 --> 00:14:59.860 I went geeking about into that for at least two years. 304 00:15:00.344 --> 00:15:01.304 I'm not out of that hole yet. 305 00:15:03.565 --> 00:15:06.466 But looking after our guts involves what we eat, 306 00:15:06.486 --> 00:15:08.526 but it's so important to then look after the soil. 307 00:15:08.606 --> 00:15:12.667 And I'd love to show you my compost bins because compost bins are where it all starts. 308 00:15:13.068 --> 00:15:16.849 But what we put into the soil is what we get out of it. 309 00:15:17.249 --> 00:15:17.709 And really, 310 00:15:19.649 --> 00:15:19.769 yeah, 311 00:15:19.909 --> 00:15:20.490 dust to dust, 312 00:15:20.550 --> 00:15:21.290 ashes to ashes, 313 00:15:21.710 --> 00:15:23.150 we eat the soil in effect. 314 00:15:24.171 --> 00:15:28.412 Just a quick post to tell you about the official partner of the Deep Seat Podcast, 315 00:15:28.492 --> 00:15:28.932 and that's... 316 00:15:29.272 --> 00:15:29.953 Soil Capital. 317 00:15:30.613 --> 00:15:38.799 Soil Capital is a company that accelerates the transition to regenerative agriculture by financially rewarding farmers who improve the health of their soils. 318 00:15:39.139 --> 00:15:40.601 They are an incredible company. 319 00:15:40.861 --> 00:15:45.104 I love what they're doing and I'm super proud to be partnering with them for the Deep Seed Podcast. 320 00:15:49.496 --> 00:15:55.241 So you were just telling me about your love for soil and the rabbit hole you went down in the last couple of years. 321 00:15:55.301 --> 00:15:56.902 Maybe you could tell us a little bit more about that. 322 00:15:57.062 --> 00:15:57.243 Yes, 323 00:15:57.303 --> 00:15:57.803 absolutely. 324 00:15:57.983 --> 00:15:58.103 So 325 00:16:00.525 --> 00:16:07.471 I had this really interesting sort of wake-up call when somebody said to me about how our food was grown. 326 00:16:08.412 --> 00:16:08.812 And I thought, 327 00:16:08.832 --> 00:16:09.893 I need to understand this. 328 00:16:09.913 --> 00:16:10.594 So first of all, 329 00:16:10.614 --> 00:16:13.456 I studied with Elaine Ingham from the Soil Food Web, 330 00:16:13.576 --> 00:16:14.938 who is this extraordinary woman. 331 00:16:14.958 --> 00:16:16.079 She's actually just retired, 332 00:16:16.099 --> 00:16:17.600 but big shout out to everything. 333 00:16:17.880 --> 00:16:20.882 that she has done and left as a legacy for the rest of us. 334 00:16:21.843 --> 00:16:23.264 And then having studied with her, 335 00:16:23.784 --> 00:16:26.046 I then read Nicole Master's book, 336 00:16:26.786 --> 00:16:27.827 For the Love of Soil. 337 00:16:28.687 --> 00:16:29.848 And in that book, 338 00:16:30.028 --> 00:16:35.752 she described how you can take really heavily compacted soil, 339 00:16:36.293 --> 00:16:39.495 and if you add milk, 340 00:16:39.815 --> 00:16:41.216 very diluted milk to it, 341 00:16:41.636 --> 00:16:44.438 how it will basically flocculate the soil with the calcium, 342 00:16:45.019 --> 00:16:46.320 and how that will 343 00:16:47.320 --> 00:17:08.372 loosen the soil and I tried this in my chicken coop which is just behind us which is really heavily compacted and over nitrogen and within a week I had worm casts coming up and then I could sow wild flower seeds in there and I thought what is this witchery what is this wizardry I need to meet this woman so 344 00:17:08.752 --> 00:17:16.196 I went to Althorp and met Nicole Masters on a weekend and immediately signed up you have to apply it wasn't actually that easy to get on I'm not sure. 345 00:17:16.332 --> 00:17:17.592 to her Create course, 346 00:17:17.632 --> 00:17:18.213 which is a 347 00:17:19.273 --> 00:17:24.954 38-week long deep dive into agroecology coaching mindset and how we can work with soils. 348 00:17:25.635 --> 00:17:26.855 And I just, 349 00:17:27.075 --> 00:17:29.576 I can't get it enough of understanding our soil. 350 00:17:29.577 --> 00:17:30.276 And we're only just, 351 00:17:30.916 --> 00:17:31.396 as humans, 352 00:17:31.397 --> 00:17:34.517 we're only just really beginning to understand the amazing microbes, 353 00:17:34.857 --> 00:17:36.157 what goes on beneath our feet. 354 00:17:36.458 --> 00:17:44.860 So the reason we're here is that compost is the most brilliant way to begin to improve soil in our own back gardens. 355 00:17:45.724 --> 00:17:47.626 If you collect your garden waste, 356 00:17:47.966 --> 00:17:49.708 then you can put it in a bakashi bin. 357 00:17:49.908 --> 00:17:52.210 Bakashi is a bran which helps to ferment it. 358 00:17:52.630 --> 00:17:54.512 You can put it then into a wormery. 359 00:17:55.352 --> 00:17:56.133 And also, 360 00:17:56.854 --> 00:17:59.596 those two are really good because it means that you can have them in a small, 361 00:17:59.776 --> 00:18:03.219 like a city space and it avoids rats and so on coming to eat it. 362 00:18:03.860 --> 00:18:08.183 Then you can also do it out here like we are here in a compost heap. 363 00:18:08.824 --> 00:18:10.345 So to make this compost, 364 00:18:10.605 --> 00:18:13.588 this is using the Elaine Ingham thermophilic method. 365 00:18:13.932 --> 00:18:15.612 So basically I have 10 buckets, 366 00:18:15.753 --> 00:18:17.113 if you think of it in percentages. 367 00:18:17.673 --> 00:18:20.314 Six of them are brown ingredients, 368 00:18:20.554 --> 00:18:21.714 three of them are green, 369 00:18:22.074 --> 00:18:25.575 and then one is what Elaine Ingham calls the party food, 370 00:18:25.995 --> 00:18:26.836 because she's American, 371 00:18:27.336 --> 00:18:28.856 and that is the high nitrogen, 372 00:18:28.936 --> 00:18:29.736 high bacteria, 373 00:18:31.217 --> 00:18:34.077 which gives the compost the wumpf and really gets it going. 374 00:18:34.418 --> 00:18:38.039 And that can be things like manure or chicken poo, 375 00:18:38.339 --> 00:18:42.900 or in my case it's chicken poo or duck poo. 376 00:18:43.620 --> 00:18:48.623 and you can also use alfalfa and other things which are high boosting. 377 00:18:49.643 --> 00:18:51.024 So what happens is you get those 378 00:18:52.925 --> 00:18:53.726 10%, so 379 00:18:54.586 --> 00:18:56.927 10% of each loosely, 380 00:18:57.087 --> 00:18:57.568 you put it in, 381 00:18:57.569 --> 00:18:59.309 it needs to be a certain moisture level, 382 00:18:59.749 --> 00:19:00.449 put it in a heap, 383 00:19:00.489 --> 00:19:01.990 and then you turn it three times, 384 00:19:01.991 --> 00:19:02.830 from side to middle, 385 00:19:04.391 --> 00:19:04.692 over, 386 00:19:05.992 --> 00:19:07.873 each time it needs to get up to the right temperature, 387 00:19:07.893 --> 00:19:09.114 so I have a temperature gauge here, 388 00:19:09.494 --> 00:19:11.395 and when it gets into the greens, 389 00:19:11.435 --> 00:19:12.736 you keep it in the green for... 390 00:19:13.532 --> 00:19:29.461 48 hours and then you turn it again if it gets too far into the red there is the possibility not at this time of year in England but there is a possibility of combustion because it can get really hot in there so you need to keep it you need to keep it turned and 391 00:19:29.481 --> 00:19:42.308 then after it's sat now this you can see this is in the actually it's gone right down to the white but it's finished it's finished it's decomposing its first part and then we'll put it in these bags 392 00:19:42.948 --> 00:19:44.689 where it will sit until we need it. 393 00:19:46.030 --> 00:19:47.591 And I can just show you what happens then, 394 00:19:47.972 --> 00:19:48.752 which is pretty special. 395 00:19:49.473 --> 00:19:51.254 I've also just brought this tube, 396 00:19:51.334 --> 00:19:52.795 this is not particularly elegant, 397 00:19:52.815 --> 00:19:56.518 it's just a plastic piece of plastic pipe with holes drilled into it. 398 00:19:57.178 --> 00:19:57.518 But if, 399 00:19:57.979 --> 00:19:58.559 for example, 400 00:19:58.599 --> 00:19:59.860 you're not able to turn... 401 00:20:00.020 --> 00:20:18.405 physically or you don't want to turn you can also use the johnson sue method which is to have a square container it could be pallets or a chicken wire mesh and then you put these in at 30 centimeter 12 inch gaps and that's 402 00:20:18.406 --> 00:20:29.148 that means that there's air the oxygen can get into the pile all the way around so it stops it from going anaerobic because what we don't want at this stage is it for a 403 00:20:29.408 --> 00:20:30.608 The compost to go anaerobic, 404 00:20:30.609 --> 00:20:32.569 we need the oxygen for the decomposition. 405 00:20:33.009 --> 00:20:33.429 Otherwise, 406 00:20:33.430 --> 00:20:41.752 you get that terrible kind of sulfur-y smell and you can get some of the less beneficial microbes, 407 00:20:41.792 --> 00:20:43.752 which you don't really want in the compost. 408 00:20:44.092 --> 00:20:44.493 So yes, 409 00:20:44.693 --> 00:20:45.373 keeping the air, 410 00:20:45.513 --> 00:20:46.093 keeping the heat, 411 00:20:46.193 --> 00:20:46.953 keeping it turning. 412 00:20:47.013 --> 00:20:48.154 And it's magic. 413 00:20:49.594 --> 00:20:50.154 Fantastic. 414 00:20:50.474 --> 00:20:51.675 Look at the little robin behind you. 415 00:20:52.875 --> 00:20:53.515 Just turn around, 416 00:20:53.535 --> 00:20:53.955 you'll get him. 417 00:20:54.436 --> 00:20:54.556 Oh, 418 00:20:54.557 --> 00:20:54.836 hello. 419 00:20:59.316 --> 00:21:02.178 So this is the compost which has been, 420 00:21:02.798 --> 00:21:03.759 I think this is about, 421 00:21:03.859 --> 00:21:04.960 since about June, 422 00:21:05.020 --> 00:21:05.520 so July, 423 00:21:05.580 --> 00:21:05.781 August, 424 00:21:05.801 --> 00:21:06.121 September, 425 00:21:06.141 --> 00:21:06.501 October, 426 00:21:06.502 --> 00:21:08.062 it's about four months old, 427 00:21:08.342 --> 00:21:10.564 which is pretty quick for creating compost. 428 00:21:11.084 --> 00:21:16.488 And it will sit in these bags now and then I will add some inoculants to it, 429 00:21:17.268 --> 00:21:20.911 like diluted milk or like fish, 430 00:21:21.411 --> 00:21:22.012 hydrolysate, 431 00:21:22.072 --> 00:21:22.192 etc. 432 00:21:23.273 --> 00:21:28.016 And that will just increase the diversity. 433 00:21:28.356 --> 00:21:29.157 of the microbes. 434 00:21:29.417 --> 00:21:30.398 And what I'm looking for, 435 00:21:30.399 --> 00:21:31.919 because this is mostly for vegetables, 436 00:21:32.339 --> 00:21:36.463 is a sort of one-to-one fungus to bacteria ratio. 437 00:21:37.043 --> 00:21:40.085 And then I want the complete spectrum of protozoa, 438 00:21:40.546 --> 00:21:41.306 nematodes, 439 00:21:41.787 --> 00:21:44.909 and bacteria and fungus in this compost. 440 00:21:44.910 --> 00:21:45.210 So I mean, 441 00:21:45.211 --> 00:21:47.371 it smells amazing already, 442 00:21:47.652 --> 00:21:55.098 but I put it under the microscope quite often and I see what's in there and see if I've got enough of the biocomplete ingredients. 443 00:21:55.718 --> 00:21:56.299 And if I haven't, 444 00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:57.860 then I play around and add a bit more. 445 00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:00.442 So it's incredibly satisfying. 446 00:22:01.022 --> 00:22:01.142 So, 447 00:22:01.262 --> 00:22:01.502 I mean, 448 00:22:01.503 --> 00:22:02.743 it smells amazing already. 449 00:22:03.784 --> 00:22:05.225 It smells of humus. 450 00:22:05.485 --> 00:22:07.927 And you can see it's kind of that dark chocolate colour, 451 00:22:07.987 --> 00:22:08.727 which is what we want. 452 00:22:08.747 --> 00:22:11.069 So that's all the humic acid which is in there. 453 00:22:11.309 --> 00:22:12.930 It's still got quite a lot of leaf mould in it. 454 00:22:13.110 --> 00:22:15.832 It's also got lots of little wood in it, 455 00:22:15.833 --> 00:22:17.573 which is really good for promoting fungus. 456 00:22:17.593 --> 00:22:20.035 So we're trying to get as much fungus in there as well. 457 00:22:21.036 --> 00:22:22.457 And it's under these trees, 458 00:22:22.737 --> 00:22:27.220 which also helps to get my own local microorganisms. 459 00:22:27.848 --> 00:22:32.170 And I have a little recipe for making indigenous microorganisms. 460 00:22:32.210 --> 00:22:33.790 I say it's not I didn't make it up, 461 00:22:33.830 --> 00:22:34.550 but I use it, 462 00:22:34.991 --> 00:22:36.151 which I can also show you, 463 00:22:36.191 --> 00:22:45.174 which involves burying rice in a cardboard box or a wooden box and allowing the microbes just to come from the woods. 464 00:22:45.594 --> 00:22:50.216 So it's all just working with nature and co-creating. 465 00:22:53.999 --> 00:22:55.140 We'll come and have a look in here. 466 00:22:55.320 --> 00:22:55.520 Ready? 467 00:22:59.262 --> 00:23:00.743 Lots and lots of wormies. 468 00:23:02.925 --> 00:23:04.606 And then if we lift up the next layer. 469 00:23:10.689 --> 00:23:10.829 Oh, 470 00:23:11.049 --> 00:23:11.309 wow. 471 00:23:12.910 --> 00:23:13.391 Okay. 472 00:23:13.971 --> 00:23:14.911 They need to go out. 473 00:23:15.132 --> 00:23:15.592 Yeah. 474 00:23:16.112 --> 00:23:16.792 So when they're happy, 475 00:23:16.852 --> 00:23:17.993 they breed like anything. 476 00:23:20.882 --> 00:23:21.522 And they're saying, 477 00:23:21.802 --> 00:23:22.462 let me out. 478 00:23:22.542 --> 00:23:25.563 So I have to let some of those out in the garden now. 479 00:23:25.683 --> 00:23:25.863 Yes, 480 00:23:25.883 --> 00:23:26.484 they're essentially, 481 00:23:26.524 --> 00:23:27.184 they're all in here. 482 00:23:27.404 --> 00:23:30.845 How does this work in the different layers and the top here? 483 00:23:30.865 --> 00:23:31.285 So here we go. 484 00:23:31.365 --> 00:23:32.285 If I dig in here, 485 00:23:33.545 --> 00:23:37.607 you'll see there's loads of them. 486 00:23:37.627 --> 00:23:38.147 Loads of them, 487 00:23:38.227 --> 00:23:38.407 look. 488 00:23:39.387 --> 00:23:43.368 So basically what happens is that you put your scraps and your food in the top here. 489 00:23:45.209 --> 00:23:47.849 And then they digest it and it goes down into the next layer. 490 00:23:47.850 --> 00:23:49.370 So the next one is more digested. 491 00:23:50.290 --> 00:23:52.091 And the one below will be even more digested. 492 00:23:52.331 --> 00:23:53.851 So they all come up through holes. 493 00:23:53.932 --> 00:23:54.772 So there's holes in the... 494 00:23:55.592 --> 00:23:56.673 Can you see the holes in the bottom? 495 00:23:58.473 --> 00:23:58.653 Yeah. 496 00:23:59.094 --> 00:24:01.575 So they all come up through the holes to eat the next layer of things. 497 00:24:01.615 --> 00:24:01.735 Oh, 498 00:24:01.736 --> 00:24:02.855 I'm going to squash you, 499 00:24:02.955 --> 00:24:03.235 sorry. 500 00:24:04.316 --> 00:24:06.957 And they're these little compost worms, 501 00:24:07.477 --> 00:24:11.139 which are different to the big worms that you get in a garden. 502 00:24:12.539 --> 00:24:16.461 And people think that they eat like the scraps and so on, 503 00:24:16.462 --> 00:24:19.282 but actually what they eat is they're eating all the microbes in the soil. 504 00:24:19.542 --> 00:24:19.762 In fact, 505 00:24:19.763 --> 00:24:22.563 you can see he's got them or she's got them inside. 506 00:24:24.004 --> 00:24:24.724 And they basically, 507 00:24:24.764 --> 00:24:27.705 they take the soil and they squeeze the exudates out. 508 00:24:28.326 --> 00:24:29.546 So they take all the goodness out. 509 00:24:29.547 --> 00:24:36.789 And then what they poop at the end is highly nutritious for the soil. 510 00:24:36.889 --> 00:24:37.009 So 511 00:24:38.130 --> 00:24:41.371 I do feed these a little bit of partly made compost. 512 00:24:41.372 --> 00:24:43.312 And then I put some of these into the compost. 513 00:24:44.012 --> 00:24:45.032 And it just makes it, 514 00:24:46.633 --> 00:24:46.893 yeah, 515 00:24:46.894 --> 00:24:47.533 it breaks it down. 516 00:24:47.553 --> 00:24:48.694 And it's so satisfying. 517 00:24:49.058 --> 00:24:50.739 Because if you have food waste, 518 00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:51.839 sometimes people say, 519 00:24:51.859 --> 00:24:51.979 oh, 520 00:24:51.980 --> 00:24:52.119 well, 521 00:24:52.120 --> 00:24:53.280 I don't have any food waste. 522 00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:53.880 But actually, 523 00:24:53.881 --> 00:24:56.781 if you start doing something like a worm, 524 00:24:56.961 --> 00:24:59.542 you soon realize how much food waste you do have. 525 00:25:01.023 --> 00:25:04.124 And it helps you to be more intentional about what you buy and what you eat. 526 00:25:04.864 --> 00:25:05.165 And also, 527 00:25:05.185 --> 00:25:05.925 I think it's quite funny. 528 00:25:06.165 --> 00:25:08.046 If you wouldn't give something to your worms, 529 00:25:08.066 --> 00:25:11.227 like you wouldn't give them a half a miles bar or some ice cream or something. 530 00:25:11.667 --> 00:25:12.788 Why would you give it to yourself? 531 00:25:13.288 --> 00:25:13.848 So if you think, 532 00:25:13.888 --> 00:25:14.008 oh, 533 00:25:14.028 --> 00:25:14.788 that's not very good for the worm. 534 00:25:15.169 --> 00:25:15.289 Well, 535 00:25:15.290 --> 00:25:15.349 no, 536 00:25:15.350 --> 00:25:15.769 it's probably not. 537 00:25:15.770 --> 00:25:17.630 But it's probably not very good for you either. 538 00:25:18.770 --> 00:25:22.492 So I love the way that it makes you just think about the closed loop system. 539 00:25:22.672 --> 00:25:30.637 It makes me really happy because the waste goes through these and the Bokashi bin and the compost and we just waste much less. 540 00:25:31.257 --> 00:25:35.720 Is it possible to get a sort of smaller version of this in an apartment if you live in the city? 541 00:25:36.520 --> 00:25:37.020 Absolutely, 542 00:25:37.060 --> 00:25:37.180 yes. 543 00:25:37.181 --> 00:25:39.182 So this is from a company called Wiggly Wigglers, 544 00:25:39.222 --> 00:25:40.022 which is a great name. 545 00:25:41.043 --> 00:25:41.383 But yes, 546 00:25:41.384 --> 00:25:43.424 you can get them from lots of places online. 547 00:25:43.524 --> 00:25:46.826 I've had this one for 24 years and it's the same. 548 00:25:47.086 --> 00:25:48.988 little packet of worms that I had at the beginning. 549 00:25:50.429 --> 00:25:50.769 But yes, 550 00:25:50.770 --> 00:25:51.750 you can get versions of these. 551 00:25:51.751 --> 00:25:53.111 You can get little ones this big. 552 00:25:53.131 --> 00:25:54.312 You can get a Bokashi bin, 553 00:25:54.352 --> 00:25:55.934 which is only tiny as well. 554 00:25:55.954 --> 00:25:56.935 And you add a Bokashi bin. 555 00:25:57.235 --> 00:25:58.516 This is a big Bokashi bin, 556 00:25:58.536 --> 00:26:00.198 which is an empty one. 557 00:26:00.258 --> 00:26:04.802 But basically the way this works is that you put your food waste inside it. 558 00:26:06.043 --> 00:26:08.144 You add some Bokashi bran to it. 559 00:26:08.145 --> 00:26:13.950 And it becomes... 560 00:26:16.406 --> 00:26:17.087 And it basically, 561 00:26:17.347 --> 00:26:20.789 you put the waste in there and you put the lid on with the Bokashi. 562 00:26:22.050 --> 00:26:23.151 It kind of pickles it, 563 00:26:23.731 --> 00:26:25.512 which means that the worms, 564 00:26:25.712 --> 00:26:26.613 after they've been in this, 565 00:26:26.653 --> 00:26:30.215 will also eat things like orange peel and so on, 566 00:26:30.236 --> 00:26:31.476 which they wouldn't normally like. 567 00:26:31.556 --> 00:26:33.278 They don't really like anything too acidic. 568 00:26:34.298 --> 00:26:39.422 But the wonderful thing about a wormery is you can put things like cooked meat in here, 569 00:26:39.482 --> 00:26:44.585 which you wouldn't want to put on a compost bin because you would get too much vermin, 570 00:26:44.665 --> 00:26:45.406 particularly in a city. 571 00:26:46.214 --> 00:26:46.374 Yeah. 572 00:26:49.836 --> 00:26:54.499 So this is an absolutely tiny way of getting water into the garden. 573 00:26:54.539 --> 00:26:55.719 It's just literally an old, 574 00:26:56.139 --> 00:26:56.320 well, 575 00:26:56.820 --> 00:26:59.221 an old tub or trough. 576 00:26:59.941 --> 00:27:05.004 And what I've done is to put this lovely brick, 577 00:27:05.624 --> 00:27:08.986 but it's a rather beautiful piece of stone in there, 578 00:27:09.386 --> 00:27:10.767 which has moss growing on it. 579 00:27:11.528 --> 00:27:14.249 And there's so much in here. 580 00:27:14.250 --> 00:27:15.630 You can see the water's really clear. 581 00:27:16.074 --> 00:27:18.436 So they haven't got kind of green algae and so on. 582 00:27:18.796 --> 00:27:22.639 And that's because there's so much biodiversity in here that it's kind of looking after itself. 583 00:27:22.659 --> 00:27:26.241 So we've created a little ecosystem of its own. 584 00:27:27.582 --> 00:27:28.142 John Little, 585 00:27:28.262 --> 00:27:30.704 who runs Hilltop Garden, 586 00:27:30.884 --> 00:27:34.667 who is a fantastic gardener, 587 00:27:34.967 --> 00:27:43.993 he always says that a stream in a town centre with a shopping trolley in it has better biodiversity than a stream without a shopping trolley in it. 588 00:27:44.353 --> 00:27:44.854 because 589 00:27:45.094 --> 00:27:48.805 If you think of like a sunken ship or coral, 590 00:27:49.427 --> 00:27:50.329 things cling to. 591 00:27:51.555 --> 00:27:55.017 and can start growing when you have more surface areas. 592 00:27:55.317 --> 00:27:57.819 So what I've done here is just really increase the surface area. 593 00:27:57.859 --> 00:27:59.020 So I have bricks in here. 594 00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:02.342 I have some gravel at the bottom. 595 00:28:02.682 --> 00:28:08.166 And then I have placed this rather lovely sort of old piece of stone, 596 00:28:08.186 --> 00:28:08.966 which I just found. 597 00:28:09.247 --> 00:28:09.447 Actually, 598 00:28:09.448 --> 00:28:10.407 I think it's even concrete, 599 00:28:10.808 --> 00:28:11.888 which I found around the garden. 600 00:28:12.389 --> 00:28:13.589 And also by having this, 601 00:28:13.590 --> 00:28:17.432 it means that the bees have somewhere to sit and sip because of the moss on top. 602 00:28:17.972 --> 00:28:18.493 And yes, 603 00:28:18.494 --> 00:28:20.174 we just find so much living in here. 604 00:28:22.115 --> 00:28:24.416 And it's just such a simple thing to do in our water. 605 00:28:25.016 --> 00:28:25.757 So we're 70% 606 00:28:26.177 --> 00:28:26.537 water. 607 00:28:28.558 --> 00:28:34.782 Water is a finite resource and has been through all of us before. 608 00:28:35.202 --> 00:28:37.323 So it might have been through the trees. 609 00:28:37.343 --> 00:28:38.744 It might have been through our friends, 610 00:28:38.784 --> 00:28:39.565 our enemies. 611 00:28:39.885 --> 00:28:41.486 It might have been through dinosaurs. 612 00:28:41.566 --> 00:28:45.228 I just love the idea that we're all connected through water. 613 00:28:45.748 --> 00:28:47.169 And I don't know if you know the work of 614 00:28:47.989 --> 00:28:48.850 Masaru Emoto, 615 00:28:48.990 --> 00:28:49.110 the 616 00:28:49.830 --> 00:28:51.131 or Victor Schauberger, 617 00:28:51.991 --> 00:28:56.754 the sort of hidden meanings of water or the memory that the water holds. 618 00:28:57.194 --> 00:29:02.397 But I think it's absolutely fascinating to think that it does hold a memory. 619 00:29:02.797 --> 00:29:09.000 And so how can we be water guardians so that when the water that lands on our properties leaves the property, 620 00:29:09.421 --> 00:29:11.982 it can leave in better health than when it arrived? 621 00:29:12.502 --> 00:29:17.765 So rather than filling it with chemicals and hormones and microplastics, 622 00:29:18.125 --> 00:29:19.146 If we can capture it... 623 00:29:19.386 --> 00:29:38.394 in the roofs if we can capture it in little things like a tiny little rain garden like this um then we're kind of doing our bit as water guardians i um i heard that some people are is that what you're referring to some people are freezing water and you can see different patterns depending on what 624 00:29:38.654 --> 00:29:48.338 the energy of the water or something like that speak to it yes i haven't done it myself but it would be fun with it to um yeah so if you if you say nasty things 625 00:29:48.638 --> 00:30:09.691 to a petri dish of water and then freeze it or if you say beautiful things to a petri dish of water and then freeze it then the patterns come out very differently and this was the work of Masaru Moto and I have not done it myself but I am fascinated by this idea that our intention is everything and it's the same with the garden design you can feel you know when you go into somebody's garden you 626 00:30:09.731 --> 00:30:15.194 can feel the intention of whether they're welcoming you and it's going to be a joyful experience or better 627 00:30:15.494 --> 00:30:18.275 Maybe it's just for show and they want you to feel intimidated. 628 00:30:18.515 --> 00:30:28.298 I think that some of the Italian Renaissance gardens are fascinating because you sort of arrive at the bottom of these massive steps and you're made to feel small straight away. 629 00:30:28.658 --> 00:30:32.659 And you're made to feel that whoever owns this is so important and so grand. 630 00:30:32.939 --> 00:30:33.819 But even these days, 631 00:30:33.879 --> 00:30:40.241 some gardens can be full of so many toys and flashy bits that you can arrive thinking, 632 00:30:40.301 --> 00:30:40.521 well, 633 00:30:40.621 --> 00:30:40.861 you know, 634 00:30:40.901 --> 00:30:42.621 this is a lot of this is for show. 635 00:30:42.721 --> 00:30:43.822 Where's the real person? 636 00:30:43.882 --> 00:30:44.322 Where is the... 637 00:30:44.762 --> 00:30:46.203 Whereas the feeling of the person, 638 00:30:46.243 --> 00:30:48.103 what are they hiding behind in a way? 639 00:30:48.604 --> 00:30:57.567 Whereas if we can show our intention to be one of welcoming and one of authenticity. 640 00:30:59.228 --> 00:31:01.169 I don't know if you're familiar with Feng Shui at all, 641 00:31:01.229 --> 00:31:01.989 but they have a, 642 00:31:03.930 --> 00:31:07.291 it's a great way of sort of putting into practice some of those things, 643 00:31:07.331 --> 00:31:11.433 which perhaps we all understand at a very intuitive level. 644 00:31:12.433 --> 00:31:14.254 One of the design... 645 00:31:16.047 --> 00:31:20.788 things in Feng Shui is to have a Ming Tang and that is the entrance hall, 646 00:31:20.789 --> 00:31:21.829 the hall of abundance. 647 00:31:22.109 --> 00:31:24.630 And I think of it as like the big hug when you arrive. 648 00:31:24.910 --> 00:31:26.571 So when you arrive at a property, 649 00:31:27.051 --> 00:31:28.392 if you see some of my designs, 650 00:31:28.412 --> 00:31:32.853 you'll often see that there's a space where you arrive and you immediately feel, 651 00:31:32.953 --> 00:31:33.154 yes, 652 00:31:33.254 --> 00:31:33.714 I'm here. 653 00:31:34.074 --> 00:31:34.774 I'm welcome. 654 00:31:35.535 --> 00:31:37.816 I'm now part of what's going on here. 655 00:31:38.196 --> 00:31:39.496 I'm not exactly part of the family, 656 00:31:39.536 --> 00:31:40.597 but I am welcomed. 657 00:31:40.937 --> 00:31:43.698 And I think that's a lovely way of setting the intention. 658 00:31:46.730 --> 00:31:55.998 This podcast is usually centered around the topic of regenerative agriculture or the question of how do we keep feeding 8 billion people, 659 00:31:56.078 --> 00:31:58.960 but instead of destroying the planet and life on it, 660 00:31:59.581 --> 00:32:00.582 we regenerate it. 661 00:32:02.303 --> 00:32:03.164 First of all, 662 00:32:03.204 --> 00:32:05.726 I'd like to know what you think about the regenerative agriculture movement. 663 00:32:07.107 --> 00:32:07.227 So 664 00:32:07.808 --> 00:32:12.712 I'm very much aligned with the regenerative agriculture movement. 665 00:32:13.793 --> 00:32:14.934 having done the Create... 666 00:32:15.406 --> 00:32:16.747 course with Nicole Masters. 667 00:32:16.827 --> 00:32:18.168 I'm an agroecology coach. 668 00:32:18.629 --> 00:32:21.251 So one of my roles is 669 00:32:22.212 --> 00:32:24.294 I co-founded something called Chalk to Coast, 670 00:32:24.334 --> 00:32:27.797 which is a large scale nature recovery project across the north of Kent, 671 00:32:28.457 --> 00:32:42.650 where we are looking to work with three big clusters of farmers and some many private individuals as well and companies to create a regenerative food growing. 672 00:32:43.222 --> 00:32:50.450 corridor so it's not rewilding it's about how we can grow food and and do it with nature so i 673 00:32:50.610 --> 00:32:55.753 I'm a great friend of many people who are in the movement. 674 00:32:57.314 --> 00:32:57.674 Sweetly, 675 00:32:57.894 --> 00:33:01.576 Andy Cato gave me a lovely endorsement for my book, 676 00:33:01.716 --> 00:33:02.436 which you can see, 677 00:33:02.456 --> 00:33:03.977 and he was on the great course with me, 678 00:33:04.217 --> 00:33:05.258 and many of the others, 679 00:33:05.338 --> 00:33:06.078 Liz Jennifer, 680 00:33:06.719 --> 00:33:07.499 Tim Williams, 681 00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:09.980 all these people are doing the most fantastic work. 682 00:33:10.080 --> 00:33:10.801 Nick Padwick, 683 00:33:11.641 --> 00:33:12.182 Tom Fairfax, 684 00:33:12.242 --> 00:33:12.962 I mentioned before. 685 00:33:15.103 --> 00:33:20.066 I think what's really exciting about the regenerative movement is that it's a mindset. 686 00:33:20.462 --> 00:33:27.125 that it is in a fast startup phase where really people are concentrating more on results. 687 00:33:27.845 --> 00:33:30.786 And so my first job was as a management consultant. 688 00:33:31.206 --> 00:33:36.328 And we used to look at the four phases of how a company would evolve. 689 00:33:36.929 --> 00:33:38.049 And we used to call it, 690 00:33:39.130 --> 00:33:39.270 well, 691 00:33:39.290 --> 00:33:39.790 to begin with, 692 00:33:39.791 --> 00:33:41.290 you have the entrepreneurial phase, 693 00:33:41.651 --> 00:33:43.731 when you get really impact, 694 00:33:43.791 --> 00:33:44.472 high impact, 695 00:33:44.592 --> 00:33:45.732 high fast movement. 696 00:33:46.032 --> 00:33:48.233 And that's kind of where RegenAg is at the moment. 697 00:33:48.293 --> 00:33:49.834 People are doing brilliant things. 698 00:33:50.518 --> 00:33:57.521 What often happens then in the second phase of a big company is you get into the slightly bureaucratic stage when people start saying, 699 00:33:57.541 --> 00:33:58.141 hang on a minute, 700 00:33:58.641 --> 00:33:58.881 you know, 701 00:33:58.901 --> 00:33:59.462 what are we doing? 702 00:33:59.502 --> 00:34:00.562 How do we control this? 703 00:34:00.902 --> 00:34:02.563 How do we make sure everybody's doing it right? 704 00:34:03.023 --> 00:34:06.445 And you can get bogged down in some bureaucracy. 705 00:34:06.605 --> 00:34:15.608 And I know that some people think that the organic movement had got to that point where actually sometimes it's more not so much the spirit of the law, 706 00:34:16.549 --> 00:34:17.409 but the letter of the law, 707 00:34:17.449 --> 00:34:18.690 which is being followed. 708 00:34:21.018 --> 00:34:22.679 And I won't go into that in too much detail, 709 00:34:22.680 --> 00:34:32.982 but what's exciting about RegenAg is that if we can learn from that and move swiftly through the entrepreneurial to the bureaucratic to the really stage three company, 710 00:34:33.102 --> 00:34:37.463 which is when you're really becoming quite effective and all the stage three movement, 711 00:34:37.464 --> 00:34:38.643 when you can be quite effective, 712 00:34:38.923 --> 00:34:43.965 have enough control so that people can feel comfortable. 713 00:34:44.725 --> 00:34:48.226 And so it doesn't get sort of hijacked because already we're hearing... 714 00:34:48.546 --> 00:34:49.887 So we're hearing quite a lot. 715 00:34:49.907 --> 00:34:55.289 It used to be that sustainability was suddenly the buzzword and then it was hijacked by the big, 716 00:34:55.889 --> 00:34:58.650 big companies and big ag. 717 00:34:58.950 --> 00:34:59.530 And then it was like, 718 00:34:59.570 --> 00:34:59.811 okay, 719 00:34:59.871 --> 00:35:00.051 right, 720 00:35:00.071 --> 00:35:00.211 well, 721 00:35:01.351 --> 00:35:02.252 how could we keep ahead? 722 00:35:02.632 --> 00:35:04.352 But now you also hear about people saying, 723 00:35:04.372 --> 00:35:04.492 well, 724 00:35:04.553 --> 00:35:06.113 I'm doing this regeneratively and you think, 725 00:35:06.193 --> 00:35:06.433 okay, 726 00:35:06.533 --> 00:35:06.773 really, 727 00:35:06.833 --> 00:35:07.074 you know, 728 00:35:07.494 --> 00:35:08.174 how are you doing that? 729 00:35:08.854 --> 00:35:08.974 So 730 00:35:10.555 --> 00:35:12.856 I think if we can keep the momentum, 731 00:35:13.496 --> 00:35:14.757 keep growing food, 732 00:35:14.817 --> 00:35:15.937 which is really important, 733 00:35:16.337 --> 00:35:17.078 but bring in... 734 00:35:18.430 --> 00:35:28.473 understanding for the wider public of things like seed sovereignty and understanding how much power we can have with our own purchasing ability, 735 00:35:29.033 --> 00:35:35.395 how important nutrient density is to ourselves and how important community is. 736 00:35:35.475 --> 00:35:36.135 Because actually, 737 00:35:36.675 --> 00:35:39.876 if we can gather together and work as one, 738 00:35:41.036 --> 00:35:43.357 as many voices going in one direction, 739 00:35:43.657 --> 00:35:46.137 then we can change huge things. 740 00:35:46.197 --> 00:35:47.798 It's a really exciting time to be. 741 00:35:48.118 --> 00:35:49.159 to be working at the moment. 742 00:35:50.580 --> 00:35:59.167 A lot of the regenerative movement also focuses on technical solutions and on measurable results and sort of hard science. 743 00:35:59.467 --> 00:35:59.627 Yeah. 744 00:36:01.669 --> 00:36:03.350 What could sort of this movement, 745 00:36:03.390 --> 00:36:04.331 this regenerative movement, 746 00:36:04.471 --> 00:36:11.777 learn from your work and from looking a bit more at things like kindness, 747 00:36:12.097 --> 00:36:12.938 energy and beauty? 748 00:36:14.294 --> 00:36:14.514 Well, 749 00:36:15.154 --> 00:36:16.995 you say it focuses on hard science. 750 00:36:17.015 --> 00:36:17.195 I mean, 751 00:36:17.196 --> 00:36:18.176 there's a lot of left brain, 752 00:36:18.196 --> 00:36:19.876 but there's a lot of right brain as well. 753 00:36:19.896 --> 00:36:20.337 And actually, 754 00:36:20.377 --> 00:36:23.518 I think that the feminine energy is quite exciting in region. 755 00:36:23.658 --> 00:36:24.759 If you go to groundswell, 756 00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:28.300 very rare you see that concentration of female, 757 00:36:28.340 --> 00:36:31.762 which I know doesn't mean to say it's necessary feminine energy, 758 00:36:31.822 --> 00:36:38.685 but there's a lot of women who can now feel that they can come into agriculture because the way we're doing things is different. 759 00:36:38.945 --> 00:36:41.526 And there's a lot of men with a feminine approach. 760 00:36:41.902 --> 00:36:42.943 who are coming in as well. 761 00:36:42.983 --> 00:36:47.886 So I think that the left brain and right brain are coming a little bit more balanced. 762 00:36:47.906 --> 00:36:55.531 And I think that's also really exciting that if we understand that if we work with good intentions and with kindness, 763 00:36:55.912 --> 00:37:04.017 that isn't everything because of course you can do that and you can kill with kindness by overfeeding something and overfeeding your soil and so on. 764 00:37:04.478 --> 00:37:05.558 So that isn't everything, 765 00:37:05.638 --> 00:37:07.720 but it's a really good start. 766 00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:09.061 If you can be kind to yourself, 767 00:37:09.661 --> 00:37:10.882 if you can be kind to all the... 768 00:37:11.042 --> 00:37:12.983 beings in your garden or in your land, 769 00:37:13.603 --> 00:37:16.544 then that emanates out to everything. 770 00:37:16.584 --> 00:37:17.224 And also, 771 00:37:17.704 --> 00:37:17.964 you know, 772 00:37:18.044 --> 00:37:20.405 some farmers don't actually eat the food that they grow, 773 00:37:20.585 --> 00:37:22.805 or they wouldn't let their children eat the food that they grow, 774 00:37:22.825 --> 00:37:24.046 but they'll sell it to other people. 775 00:37:24.286 --> 00:37:27.447 I think that's a major thing which we can address with kindness. 776 00:37:31.188 --> 00:37:33.908 A lot of the land is used for agriculture, 777 00:37:33.968 --> 00:37:35.209 for food production, 778 00:37:35.249 --> 00:37:36.969 but there are also many, 779 00:37:37.029 --> 00:37:39.390 many people who have gardens and natural spaces. 780 00:37:40.318 --> 00:37:41.960 Are they also part of the solution? 781 00:37:42.080 --> 00:37:47.727 Are they sort of citizen scientists experimenting with what we can do with nature? 782 00:37:48.568 --> 00:37:48.788 Well, 783 00:37:48.888 --> 00:37:50.370 in terms of giving a... 784 00:37:50.590 --> 00:37:52.291 basis for pollinators, 785 00:37:52.292 --> 00:37:52.692 for example. 786 00:37:52.693 --> 00:37:59.457 So there are 23 and a half million gardeners in the UK and the garden area spans a larger area than 787 00:38:00.018 --> 00:38:02.600 I think the national parks is the statistic. 788 00:38:03.821 --> 00:38:09.526 So there's a lot that a gardener can do as well as that a farm or a landowner can do. 789 00:38:10.487 --> 00:38:13.269 We can provide habitat for pollinators, 790 00:38:13.849 --> 00:38:15.210 we can increase biodiversity, 791 00:38:15.771 --> 00:38:17.312 we can look after our water, 792 00:38:17.592 --> 00:38:19.294 we can look after our soil 793 00:38:19.938 --> 00:38:21.019 By looking after our soil, 794 00:38:21.020 --> 00:38:22.580 we can then look after our guts, 795 00:38:22.680 --> 00:38:25.181 which is what then goes back into the water system. 796 00:38:25.901 --> 00:38:28.663 And we can look after our energy, 797 00:38:28.783 --> 00:38:29.604 whether it's the sun, 798 00:38:29.784 --> 00:38:30.724 the solar energy, 799 00:38:30.864 --> 00:38:31.485 wind energy, 800 00:38:32.165 --> 00:38:35.187 how much electricity or other fuels we use. 801 00:38:35.188 --> 00:38:38.869 We can be mindful of all those sorts of things and we can create community, 802 00:38:39.049 --> 00:38:39.949 which is really important. 803 00:38:39.990 --> 00:38:43.011 That sort of bond between other human beings. 804 00:38:43.371 --> 00:38:43.492 So, 805 00:38:43.672 --> 00:38:43.852 yes, 806 00:38:43.912 --> 00:38:47.554 a gardener is as powerful and there's so many gardeners. 807 00:38:48.210 --> 00:38:49.791 And anyone can be a gardener. 808 00:38:50.032 --> 00:38:51.292 You don't need a big space. 809 00:38:51.312 --> 00:38:52.493 You can have a windowsill, 810 00:38:52.833 --> 00:38:53.814 you can have a balcony. 811 00:38:54.475 --> 00:38:59.218 If you can somehow connect to any growing life outside, 812 00:38:59.318 --> 00:39:00.179 you are a gardener. 813 00:39:04.802 --> 00:39:06.923 So you ask me if I'm a hopeful person. 814 00:39:07.664 --> 00:39:07.884 Yes, 815 00:39:07.944 --> 00:39:15.249 and I will show you this as one of the most hopeful things which has happened in the UK in the last 816 00:39:15.589 --> 00:39:16.150 10 years. 817 00:39:16.682 --> 00:39:18.323 So 400 years ago, 818 00:39:18.703 --> 00:39:27.728 we extirpated the beaver from the UK and we used them for their, 819 00:39:28.048 --> 00:39:32.151 basically their anal glands for many things, 820 00:39:32.471 --> 00:39:33.031 for healing, 821 00:39:33.131 --> 00:39:33.731 for scent, 822 00:39:35.512 --> 00:39:37.273 for the castoreum which they produce. 823 00:39:38.294 --> 00:39:44.377 And also they annoyed us because they are these extraordinary busy creatures that take down trees. 824 00:39:44.878 --> 00:39:45.298 However, 825 00:39:45.742 --> 00:39:46.603 In the last 10 years, 826 00:39:46.604 --> 00:39:48.404 we have started to reintroduce them. 827 00:39:48.985 --> 00:39:49.865 And for me, 828 00:39:50.566 --> 00:39:51.607 when I first saw that, 829 00:39:51.687 --> 00:39:55.290 that was one of the most hopeful things which has happened, 830 00:39:55.550 --> 00:39:58.613 that we can learn how to co-create with other beings. 831 00:39:58.973 --> 00:40:03.116 And if you see the work that beavers are doing down in Somerset, 832 00:40:04.598 --> 00:40:05.819 they were already in Scotland, 833 00:40:05.839 --> 00:40:07.160 but in Somerset and Cornwall, 834 00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:07.780 other places, 835 00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:08.081 in fact, 836 00:40:08.082 --> 00:40:09.622 we have them in here in Kent as well, 837 00:40:10.162 --> 00:40:12.744 the way they are bringing life back, 838 00:40:12.825 --> 00:40:14.326 bringing biodiversity back. 839 00:40:15.274 --> 00:40:26.019 They're creating wetlands which we as humans would cost us millions of pounds to do and a lot of physical and fossil fuel energy to do. 840 00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:28.440 And by co-creating with these creatures, 841 00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:33.082 we are understanding that it's not just us that can regenerate. 842 00:40:33.302 --> 00:40:34.603 So can the bees, 843 00:40:34.863 --> 00:40:35.583 so can the birds, 844 00:40:35.584 --> 00:40:36.824 so can all other life. 845 00:40:37.164 --> 00:40:37.624 So if, 846 00:40:37.664 --> 00:40:37.824 yes, 847 00:40:37.844 --> 00:40:39.805 you ask me if I'm hopeful, 848 00:40:40.165 --> 00:40:42.146 I often carry a beaver chip in my pocket. 849 00:40:43.014 --> 00:40:45.696 which is just one of their chippings that they've taken off, 850 00:40:46.076 --> 00:40:49.718 just to remind me that if we can bring back beavers, 851 00:40:49.758 --> 00:40:51.919 then there's so much that we can bring back. 852 00:40:52.680 --> 00:40:58.983 Thank you so much for your time and for sharing all of this wonderful knowledge and wisdom with the listeners of the Deep Seat podcast. 853 00:40:59.143 --> 00:40:59.423 Thank you. 854 00:40:59.844 --> 00:41:00.004 Well, 855 00:41:00.084 --> 00:41:01.505 I'm just really honoured that you came. 856 00:41:01.565 --> 00:41:02.445 Thank you very much. 857 00:41:02.525 --> 00:41:03.946 And thank you for doing the podcast. 858 00:41:03.947 --> 00:41:04.947 What a wonderful gift.