WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.388 --> 00:00:01.369 Torres wanted it, 2 00:00:01.870 --> 00:00:02.650 Babbel has it, 3 00:00:02.951 --> 00:00:03.831 oh lovely check, 4 00:00:04.012 --> 00:00:05.293 oh, 5 00:00:05.313 --> 00:00:10.573 it's gorgeous This is Ben Ayoun who's hungry for more, 6 00:00:10.574 --> 00:00:11.093 and that's Babbel, 7 00:00:11.113 --> 00:00:18.747 and that's brilliant Welcome to today's podcast where we are joined by 8 00:00:19.267 --> 00:00:20.048 Ryan Babbel, 9 00:00:20.388 --> 00:00:21.689 what a legend, 10 00:00:21.910 --> 00:00:22.950 love the game, 11 00:00:23.051 --> 00:00:24.172 thank you for coming on Ryan. 12 00:00:24.812 --> 00:00:25.132 Thank you, 13 00:00:25.172 --> 00:00:25.933 thank you for having me, 14 00:00:26.093 --> 00:00:26.433 thank you. 15 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:28.159 So, 16 00:00:28.499 --> 00:00:29.099 yeah, 17 00:00:29.100 --> 00:00:29.540 I want to... 18 00:00:30.104 --> 00:00:31.084 Kick off straight away. 19 00:00:32.725 --> 00:00:36.146 Me and Greg were both speaking about it prior to you coming on. 20 00:00:37.026 --> 00:00:38.707 Coming through at Ajax. 21 00:00:39.047 --> 00:00:48.373 Ajax must be up there along with Barcelona as bringing the guys who've come through that system and played professionally for clubs across Europe. 22 00:00:48.433 --> 00:00:49.274 It's got to be, 23 00:00:49.922 --> 00:00:51.122 if not better than Barca, 24 00:00:51.542 --> 00:00:53.023 some of the guys you guys have brought through. 25 00:00:53.283 --> 00:00:56.264 What was that like coming through at Ajax? 26 00:00:56.764 --> 00:00:56.884 Yeah. 27 00:00:58.356 --> 00:01:00.777 I think now that you can reflect, 28 00:01:00.897 --> 00:01:05.818 I would say it was a real privilege to be part of the Ajax youth system. 29 00:01:07.306 --> 00:01:08.367 At that time growing up, 30 00:01:08.487 --> 00:01:14.100 I remember before joining that it was almost impossible. 31 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:18.237 You had to really be somehow the perfect player. 32 00:01:18.497 --> 00:01:19.438 The standards were really, 33 00:01:19.518 --> 00:01:20.078 really high. 34 00:01:20.278 --> 00:01:20.418 And 35 00:01:21.770 --> 00:01:25.231 I remember being at my former team before joining. 36 00:01:25.251 --> 00:01:27.192 You had so many great players. 37 00:01:27.744 --> 00:01:47.841 of my generation and also from other teams that like yeah i was good but i was very insecure because you had so many a variety of different types of of people who players who are really really good and i was like if we don't even play for ix yet and we're already so good then how good are the ix players in 38 00:01:47.842 --> 00:01:53.247 the academy right so i wasn't sure what to expect and then i remember 39 00:01:54.808 --> 00:02:00.631 The very first time when Ajax reached out to my parents that they were interested, 40 00:02:00.971 --> 00:02:01.272 I was, 41 00:02:02.220 --> 00:02:02.660 of course, 42 00:02:02.740 --> 00:02:03.901 positively surprised. 43 00:02:03.921 --> 00:02:04.461 I was shocked. 44 00:02:04.501 --> 00:02:04.881 I was like, 45 00:02:04.941 --> 00:02:05.102 oh, 46 00:02:05.242 --> 00:02:05.362 whoa, 47 00:02:05.422 --> 00:02:05.842 like, 48 00:02:05.962 --> 00:02:07.043 did I catch their attention? 49 00:02:07.103 --> 00:02:07.263 Like, 50 00:02:07.303 --> 00:02:08.363 I must do something right. 51 00:02:10.508 --> 00:02:10.808 But yeah, 52 00:02:10.868 --> 00:02:11.369 eventually, 53 00:02:11.469 --> 00:02:11.749 you know, 54 00:02:12.149 --> 00:02:13.170 walking through the academy, 55 00:02:13.810 --> 00:02:14.510 learned so much. 56 00:02:15.231 --> 00:02:17.052 And then I realized it's more about 57 00:02:18.176 --> 00:02:19.797 Just being good with the ball on your feet. 58 00:02:19.857 --> 00:02:21.817 It's also the mindset aspect of it, 59 00:02:21.818 --> 00:02:23.218 the mentality aspect of it, 60 00:02:23.298 --> 00:02:24.698 the discipline aspect of it, 61 00:02:26.762 --> 00:02:27.643 and so much more. 62 00:02:27.783 --> 00:02:28.943 And that's, 63 00:02:29.043 --> 00:02:29.503 I think, 64 00:02:30.223 --> 00:02:31.904 still the last day of my career. 65 00:02:31.964 --> 00:02:38.178 I think most of the things that I implemented in my career was what I learned at Ajax. 66 00:02:38.358 --> 00:02:38.478 So, 67 00:02:39.098 --> 00:02:39.218 yeah, 68 00:02:39.338 --> 00:02:42.299 I have to give the props and credit to the youth system for sure. 69 00:02:43.247 --> 00:02:43.447 Yeah, 70 00:02:43.687 --> 00:02:45.007 that's phenomenal. 71 00:02:45.288 --> 00:02:46.688 What is it you think? 72 00:02:48.404 --> 00:02:48.724 Obviously, 73 00:02:48.784 --> 00:02:49.545 having been there, 74 00:02:49.965 --> 00:02:54.127 it makes the difference between Ajax and any other youth academy. 75 00:02:54.227 --> 00:02:59.118 What are they doing that other people are not to bring all these guys through? 76 00:02:59.138 --> 00:03:01.059 I think the difference is 77 00:03:01.820 --> 00:03:03.681 Ajax really cares. 78 00:03:04.181 --> 00:03:04.621 That's one. 79 00:03:05.970 --> 00:03:13.453 And the reason why Ajax also really cares is because they don't really have the luxury, 80 00:03:13.573 --> 00:03:17.416 maybe like teams in Premier League who can spend 100 million on players, 81 00:03:17.556 --> 00:03:17.776 right? 82 00:03:18.284 --> 00:03:23.748 So they have to find the next generational talent in order for their system to continue running, 83 00:03:23.808 --> 00:03:24.008 right? 84 00:03:24.028 --> 00:03:25.870 So if you look at the history, 85 00:03:25.990 --> 00:03:30.093 they have always produced young players and then eventually they sell the players for a lot of money. 86 00:03:30.833 --> 00:03:32.454 And that is their business module. 87 00:03:32.694 --> 00:03:39.043 So they have to put in a lot of time and effort to make sure that they pick players on early. 88 00:03:40.031 --> 00:03:41.272 And that comes with, 89 00:03:41.412 --> 00:03:41.632 you know, 90 00:03:41.732 --> 00:03:45.495 caring and really developing and taking time out to really improve players. 91 00:03:47.636 --> 00:03:51.659 I think maybe that's a little bit of a lack in a lot of other academies. 92 00:03:51.799 --> 00:03:52.079 Sure, 93 00:03:52.099 --> 00:03:52.339 you know, 94 00:03:52.359 --> 00:03:53.180 you have sometimes, 95 00:03:53.900 --> 00:03:54.420 for example, 96 00:03:54.460 --> 00:03:55.020 Liverpool, 97 00:03:55.121 --> 00:03:55.401 you know, 98 00:03:55.801 --> 00:03:58.122 Trent Alexander-Arnold coming through the academy. 99 00:03:58.322 --> 00:04:08.164 But if you look at the percentage of players every year coming through the Ajax system and compared to who's coming really through systems from Premier League teams or other teams, 100 00:04:08.625 --> 00:04:09.505 it's a big difference. 101 00:04:09.506 --> 00:04:09.625 And 102 00:04:12.151 --> 00:04:13.671 I think that is the reason why. 103 00:04:14.512 --> 00:04:18.154 Ajax is such a successful producing team for young players. 104 00:04:19.595 --> 00:04:19.935 Obviously, 105 00:04:20.235 --> 00:04:24.258 you made your debut as a young kid at Ajax. 106 00:04:24.910 --> 00:04:26.671 Was there any preparation for that? 107 00:04:26.751 --> 00:04:30.294 Or were you literally just taken and thrown in at the deep end, 108 00:04:30.354 --> 00:04:32.807 like not pre-warned or anything? 109 00:04:33.247 --> 00:04:33.968 How did it work? 110 00:04:36.849 --> 00:04:37.229 I mean, 111 00:04:37.670 --> 00:04:41.656 you can never really be prepared to make your first game, 112 00:04:41.716 --> 00:04:41.916 but 113 00:04:43.081 --> 00:04:45.283 I somehow felt it was close. 114 00:04:45.884 --> 00:04:49.547 I think prior to my first game for Ajax in 2004, 115 00:04:49.747 --> 00:04:50.748 I signed a contract. 116 00:04:51.556 --> 00:04:52.117 So I knew, 117 00:04:52.237 --> 00:04:52.517 okay, 118 00:04:52.557 --> 00:04:52.818 you know, 119 00:04:52.898 --> 00:04:54.359 they at least see something in me. 120 00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:55.660 They want to give me a chance. 121 00:04:55.740 --> 00:04:57.534 And I knew at that moment, 122 00:04:57.574 --> 00:04:57.734 like, 123 00:04:57.794 --> 00:04:57.974 okay, 124 00:04:58.014 --> 00:04:58.875 I have to prepare. 125 00:04:58.895 --> 00:04:59.956 I have to make sure I'm ready. 126 00:05:01.024 --> 00:05:01.825 And yeah, 127 00:05:01.845 --> 00:05:06.549 the whole reason why eventually I got a chance was because Zlatan Ibrahimovic was injured. 128 00:05:07.154 --> 00:05:08.495 And they had no striker in 129 00:05:08.835 --> 00:05:09.095 Ajax. 130 00:05:11.629 --> 00:05:12.369 And yeah, 131 00:05:12.409 --> 00:05:12.690 you know, 132 00:05:12.710 --> 00:05:14.310 and I was doing well on the second team. 133 00:05:14.390 --> 00:05:15.051 So they were like, 134 00:05:15.071 --> 00:05:15.231 hey, 135 00:05:16.615 --> 00:05:19.549 that was their philosophy. 136 00:05:19.649 --> 00:05:19.889 Like, 137 00:05:21.509 --> 00:05:22.430 there are no strikers, 138 00:05:22.450 --> 00:05:25.571 so we have to fall back on the striker of the second team. 139 00:05:26.492 --> 00:05:29.497 And they gave me a chance and I grabbed it with both hands. 140 00:05:29.617 --> 00:05:33.619 And shortly after they sold Zlatan to Juventus, 141 00:05:35.460 --> 00:05:37.881 they then decided to buy... 142 00:05:38.461 --> 00:05:43.125 an experienced striker because they felt I was too young to just play a whole season. 143 00:05:43.914 --> 00:05:44.835 And they bought 144 00:05:47.437 --> 00:05:48.238 Euro Cup winner 145 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:50.600 Angelos Charisteas, 146 00:05:50.660 --> 00:05:54.711 who won the Euros with Greece in 2004. 147 00:05:56.404 --> 00:05:59.287 So he was then the experienced player and I was right behind him. 148 00:05:59.347 --> 00:06:02.313 And we had a little bit of a rotation. 149 00:06:02.393 --> 00:06:03.074 And of course, 150 00:06:03.075 --> 00:06:03.334 you know, 151 00:06:03.694 --> 00:06:05.976 he was costing a lot of money at that time for Ajax. 152 00:06:06.969 --> 00:06:07.289 terms, 153 00:06:07.370 --> 00:06:10.433 but I was doing really well and I got a lot of play time. 154 00:06:12.097 --> 00:06:12.978 I'm curious, 155 00:06:13.018 --> 00:06:14.159 I've got a question about this. 156 00:06:15.960 --> 00:06:23.447 Was there anyone in that Ajax youth system who you thought was the biggest talent that didn't actually make it through? 157 00:06:24.475 --> 00:06:24.635 Yeah, 158 00:06:24.756 --> 00:06:24.956 many, 159 00:06:25.116 --> 00:06:25.716 many players. 160 00:06:25.777 --> 00:06:28.179 And I don't know if it's relevant to drop names, 161 00:06:28.239 --> 00:06:31.002 but most likely nobody would know their names. 162 00:06:31.142 --> 00:06:32.847 But yeah, 163 00:06:33.108 --> 00:06:33.488 definitely, 164 00:06:33.548 --> 00:06:33.828 you know. 165 00:06:35.481 --> 00:06:37.422 There were a lot of players from my generation, 166 00:06:38.042 --> 00:06:39.823 generation slightly above, 167 00:06:39.903 --> 00:06:40.564 that I was like, 168 00:06:41.192 --> 00:06:41.312 oh, 169 00:06:41.372 --> 00:06:43.313 they definitely will make the first team, 170 00:06:43.393 --> 00:06:44.874 but somehow they didn't. 171 00:06:45.054 --> 00:06:47.859 And sometimes it had to do with timing. 172 00:06:49.408 --> 00:06:53.958 I remember very well that in my time you had, 173 00:06:54.158 --> 00:06:54.598 of course, 174 00:06:54.658 --> 00:06:57.199 players like Rafael van der Vaart and Wesley Sneijder, 175 00:06:58.675 --> 00:06:58.936 you know, 176 00:06:59.076 --> 00:07:01.137 already making a great name for themselves. 177 00:07:02.249 --> 00:07:02.989 Right under that, 178 00:07:02.990 --> 00:07:05.010 you had a lot of great players in their position. 179 00:07:05.170 --> 00:07:05.510 They were, 180 00:07:05.511 --> 00:07:06.530 in my opinion, 181 00:07:06.670 --> 00:07:07.090 very good, 182 00:07:07.291 --> 00:07:08.531 but they were not Wesley Sneijder. 183 00:07:08.691 --> 00:07:09.891 They were not Rafa van der Vaart. 184 00:07:10.551 --> 00:07:11.312 And because of that, 185 00:07:11.512 --> 00:07:13.932 Ajax put them on loan or Ajax sold them. 186 00:07:14.813 --> 00:07:14.933 So 187 00:07:15.433 --> 00:07:17.974 I would also say football sometimes is timing, 188 00:07:18.394 --> 00:07:18.654 right? 189 00:07:19.114 --> 00:07:19.934 And like I said, 190 00:07:20.214 --> 00:07:25.560 I don't know if they would see me as good enough if Zlatan was never injured. 191 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:25.940 I don't know, 192 00:07:26.280 --> 00:07:26.460 right? 193 00:07:26.500 --> 00:07:27.080 We never know. 194 00:07:27.200 --> 00:07:29.092 But timing, 195 00:07:29.233 --> 00:07:29.853 and I would say... 196 00:07:30.757 --> 00:07:48.059 then also you know you taking your chance is very important right so um yeah and i'm just curious to know as well as a youngster grown up in the netherlands who was your idol grown up as a follower yeah uh growing 197 00:07:48.060 --> 00:07:58.092 up in the beginning initially was uh patrick clyford right he was a striker at ajax i grew up as a striker so he was immediately someone i idolized and tried to 198 00:07:59.189 --> 00:08:14.625 pin my game towards to and after that later on i fell in love with chedi henry you know the invincibles at at arsenal so also that's why i became an arsenal fan because you had players from ix going to arsenal mark overmars dennis bear camp from 199 00:08:14.665 --> 00:08:28.109 bronkhorst so i am medically also fell in love with arsenal also because their jerseys and colors were very close to ix red white so it was very easy to fall in love with arsenal and the way they played and 200 00:08:28.929 --> 00:08:31.791 all the aura that they had with the French football players, 201 00:08:31.891 --> 00:08:32.511 Arsene Wenger, 202 00:08:32.571 --> 00:08:32.971 et cetera, 203 00:08:32.991 --> 00:08:33.432 et cetera. 204 00:08:33.572 --> 00:08:34.696 And so, 205 00:08:34.996 --> 00:08:35.116 yeah, 206 00:08:35.136 --> 00:08:36.537 I would say first Patrick Kluivert, 207 00:08:36.717 --> 00:08:37.498 after Thierry Henry, 208 00:08:37.978 --> 00:08:39.731 and that's how it started for me. 209 00:08:39.732 --> 00:08:42.812 Yari Litmanen, 210 00:08:42.813 --> 00:08:42.892 no? 211 00:08:42.893 --> 00:08:43.072 Yeah, 212 00:08:43.213 --> 00:08:45.194 but Yari Litmanen was not my position, 213 00:08:45.234 --> 00:08:45.874 but of course, 214 00:08:46.374 --> 00:08:46.494 yeah, 215 00:08:47.435 --> 00:08:48.255 it was a good player. 216 00:08:48.296 --> 00:08:49.376 Like a lot of players, 217 00:08:49.436 --> 00:08:50.317 like Edgar David, 218 00:08:50.397 --> 00:08:50.877 Seedorf, 219 00:08:52.242 --> 00:08:53.502 a lot of these players, 220 00:08:53.522 --> 00:08:53.863 of course, 221 00:08:53.864 --> 00:08:54.983 they were superhero stars, 222 00:08:55.043 --> 00:08:55.223 right? 223 00:08:55.224 --> 00:08:56.444 They won the Champions League. 224 00:08:56.744 --> 00:08:57.485 They were very good. 225 00:08:58.117 --> 00:09:01.018 But if you really talked about who was my idol, 226 00:09:01.178 --> 00:09:05.400 I looked at a player who played in my position and I could learn from. 227 00:09:05.540 --> 00:09:06.381 And at that time, 228 00:09:06.501 --> 00:09:07.381 as a number nine, 229 00:09:07.801 --> 00:09:11.383 which was my position before I turned out to be a winger, 230 00:09:12.595 --> 00:09:13.456 was Patrick Leifert. 231 00:09:14.336 --> 00:09:15.076 Okay. 232 00:09:16.012 --> 00:09:16.152 Yeah. 233 00:09:16.713 --> 00:09:17.933 Not a bad idol to have. 234 00:09:18.293 --> 00:09:18.413 No. 235 00:09:18.874 --> 00:09:20.814 That's a good choice. 236 00:09:21.839 --> 00:09:21.959 So, 237 00:09:22.499 --> 00:09:22.859 obviously, 238 00:09:23.540 --> 00:09:24.500 coming through Ajax, 239 00:09:24.980 --> 00:09:26.949 you played and obviously... 240 00:09:27.469 --> 00:09:29.949 you moved on to Liverpool. 241 00:09:29.989 --> 00:09:32.986 I'm just curious how long that process has taken. 242 00:09:32.987 --> 00:09:37.273 Was that a very quick thing or was that planned out over a long period of time? 243 00:09:37.313 --> 00:09:37.854 How did it come about? 244 00:09:38.495 --> 00:09:41.976 It was actually very quick because... 245 00:09:42.971 --> 00:09:43.311 Prior, 246 00:09:43.912 --> 00:09:48.634 so we played in 2007 the Euros with under-21s. 247 00:09:49.878 --> 00:09:51.439 And in that summer, 248 00:09:51.479 --> 00:09:52.479 we won the Euros. 249 00:09:53.640 --> 00:09:56.341 And we had a very good generation at that time, 250 00:09:56.342 --> 00:09:56.941 a very good team. 251 00:09:57.853 --> 00:09:59.134 And then I went on holiday. 252 00:10:00.230 --> 00:10:00.590 And 253 00:10:01.955 --> 00:10:07.345 I remember actually prior to during the Euros and a little bit before the Euros, 254 00:10:08.766 --> 00:10:11.647 there were news articles where said that... 255 00:10:12.235 --> 00:10:24.876 Arsenal was paying attention and looking and funny enough I was kind of like dreaming I was like oh I hope I hope you know Arsenal will come and um and then I went on a holiday and then my agent called me and it was like 256 00:10:25.276 --> 00:10:36.071 Liverpool's interested and they want you and I was like oh and I never really paid attention like that to Liverpool and I was thinking like oh um like so let me do some research right and 257 00:10:37.648 --> 00:10:41.811 I remember of course the the final in Istanbul and I remember 258 00:10:42.195 --> 00:10:43.056 I think that summer, 259 00:10:43.236 --> 00:10:44.117 before the Euros, 260 00:10:44.417 --> 00:10:47.099 they lost to AC Milan in the final again. 261 00:10:47.179 --> 00:10:48.960 And you had already, 262 00:10:49.520 --> 00:10:49.800 you know, 263 00:10:49.841 --> 00:10:53.243 a few Dutch players like Senden and Dirk Kuyt playing for the club. 264 00:10:54.127 --> 00:10:56.970 So I was doing some research to see if it would fit my game, 265 00:10:56.990 --> 00:10:59.091 if it would fit my philosophy of thinking. 266 00:11:00.280 --> 00:11:01.060 And in the beginning, 267 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:01.981 I was very hesitant. 268 00:11:02.997 --> 00:11:06.480 And what got me over the hurdle was a phone call with Benitez. 269 00:11:06.560 --> 00:11:06.820 You know, 270 00:11:07.160 --> 00:11:08.021 we had a phone call. 271 00:11:08.061 --> 00:11:10.223 I was on my holiday with my girlfriend at that time. 272 00:11:11.051 --> 00:11:18.275 And we had a phone call and he gave me a great feeling about joining and that they would look after me and give me time. 273 00:11:19.351 --> 00:11:19.532 And 274 00:11:19.972 --> 00:11:25.315 I was always sensitive for a team that really gave me the feeling that they really want you, 275 00:11:25.951 --> 00:11:26.211 right? 276 00:11:26.331 --> 00:11:28.913 And not that you're just an option and we have more options, 277 00:11:28.953 --> 00:11:30.193 we're talking to more players. 278 00:11:30.233 --> 00:11:30.353 And 279 00:11:31.186 --> 00:11:32.887 Liverpool really gave me that energy like, 280 00:11:32.888 --> 00:11:33.007 no, 281 00:11:33.047 --> 00:11:33.847 we really want you. 282 00:11:33.867 --> 00:11:36.729 We think you fit in our vision and you're the future. 283 00:11:37.773 --> 00:11:38.714 And that's why I was like, 284 00:11:38.754 --> 00:11:38.874 OK, 285 00:11:39.590 --> 00:11:40.591 let's let's fucking do it. 286 00:11:41.572 --> 00:11:45.019 so that's how I made my decision 287 00:11:47.901 --> 00:11:56.193 Obviously Rafa was the guy that took you there what was the first impression of him as a person? 288 00:11:57.777 --> 00:12:08.367 It's a very interesting one because now fast forward to today if you're going to ask me a question like 289 00:12:09.851 --> 00:12:14.706 From all the managers who you disliked the most, 290 00:12:14.846 --> 00:12:17.839 then Rafa Benitez is by far number one for me. 291 00:12:18.568 --> 00:12:18.968 He had, 292 00:12:20.136 --> 00:12:20.877 in my opinion, 293 00:12:21.717 --> 00:12:26.260 a very negative influence on the rest of my career after Liverpool. 294 00:12:27.604 --> 00:12:29.666 And that is not because he is not a good manager. 295 00:12:30.606 --> 00:12:31.967 I think he was a great manager, 296 00:12:32.027 --> 00:12:33.868 especially if you talk about tactically, 297 00:12:34.328 --> 00:12:35.469 knowing how to win games, 298 00:12:35.569 --> 00:12:39.327 knowing how to explain a tactic. 299 00:12:39.727 --> 00:12:41.728 on a team and how we have to execute. 300 00:12:42.569 --> 00:12:44.770 But he was not a people's manager, 301 00:12:44.830 --> 00:12:45.070 right? 302 00:12:45.230 --> 00:12:50.293 He was not a manager how we now have a lot of managers like Jurgen Klopp or Arteta, 303 00:12:50.373 --> 00:12:53.923 who's really bonding with players and trying to get the best out of them. 304 00:12:54.596 --> 00:12:55.016 He was... 305 00:12:56.861 --> 00:12:58.482 And what I wanted to say, 306 00:12:58.642 --> 00:13:02.776 it was a very interesting one because when we had the phone call, 307 00:13:03.912 --> 00:13:05.593 he sounded like a big uncle. 308 00:13:06.177 --> 00:13:06.838 Very warm, 309 00:13:07.098 --> 00:13:08.455 very like... 310 00:13:09.091 --> 00:13:30.269 you know like i'm gonna help you and and from day one when i came in in pre-season it was a totally different person you know it was he was very cold he was very like like like this and and and it was from day one very tough for me to build a connection and i was used to talking 311 00:13:30.289 --> 00:13:37.023 a lot with with um with managers at ajax right like if you didn't play or if you didn't play well they would 312 00:13:37.711 --> 00:13:54.747 pull you apart and say like look this is what you did wrong you have to try and do this try to work harder here and blah blah blah and at that time in Liverpool that was not the the way of I guess communicating with with with a manager and the 313 00:13:54.767 --> 00:14:06.879 manager only spoke with their star players and if you were a young players the the energy was just shut up and work hard like there's no there's no right for you to talk to me and that was very 314 00:14:07.619 --> 00:14:08.559 That was very difficult. 315 00:14:08.560 --> 00:14:12.661 So I had to learn and try to learn the hard way by looking at other players. 316 00:14:12.721 --> 00:14:16.126 And I had to get used to the 4-4-2 system, 317 00:14:16.266 --> 00:14:16.466 right? 318 00:14:16.467 --> 00:14:19.587 The English 4-4-2 system with two strikers and playing, 319 00:14:20.427 --> 00:14:20.727 you know. 320 00:14:23.259 --> 00:14:24.720 And I actually played 4-3-3. 321 00:14:24.800 --> 00:14:28.961 So there were a lot of things I had to learn and I had to really figure it out myself. 322 00:14:28.981 --> 00:14:29.641 It was very tough. 323 00:14:29.741 --> 00:14:32.494 And because I didn't play well immediately, 324 00:14:33.390 --> 00:14:34.691 that's the reason why I was on the bench. 325 00:14:36.495 --> 00:14:41.879 It was not easy and that's why I would say and if you also ask a lot of 326 00:14:42.916 --> 00:14:45.037 People and fans about my Liverpool career, 327 00:14:45.238 --> 00:14:45.518 you know, 328 00:14:45.718 --> 00:14:47.199 the opinions are a little bit mixed, 329 00:14:47.259 --> 00:14:47.519 right? 330 00:14:47.699 --> 00:14:48.299 People would say, 331 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:48.660 oh, 332 00:14:48.700 --> 00:14:49.680 he was not good enough. 333 00:14:50.301 --> 00:14:51.501 And a lot of fans would say, 334 00:14:51.642 --> 00:14:51.762 oh, 335 00:14:51.822 --> 00:14:54.203 he didn't really get a chance or he was not managed right. 336 00:14:54.607 --> 00:14:55.508 If you think about it, 337 00:14:55.509 --> 00:14:55.748 you know, 338 00:14:55.768 --> 00:14:58.822 I was 19 when I joined Liverpool, 339 00:14:59.758 --> 00:14:59.938 right? 340 00:14:59.958 --> 00:15:01.059 So I was still very young. 341 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:07.855 And I would say nowadays I feel young players are more taken care of. 342 00:15:11.500 --> 00:15:12.321 And back in the days, 343 00:15:13.061 --> 00:15:13.621 I would say, 344 00:15:13.962 --> 00:15:14.942 especially in my time, 345 00:15:15.362 --> 00:15:16.643 you had to figure it out yourself. 346 00:15:16.683 --> 00:15:17.784 And that was the big difference. 347 00:15:18.836 --> 00:15:20.597 So that was my relationship with the coach. 348 00:15:22.390 --> 00:15:24.051 And when I realized that I wasn't crazy, 349 00:15:24.231 --> 00:15:29.714 when I later heard that even Steven Gerrard or Fernando Torres or even Jamie Carragher would say, 350 00:15:30.522 --> 00:15:30.643 Oh, 351 00:15:30.683 --> 00:15:31.103 Benitez, 352 00:15:31.143 --> 00:15:33.864 he's a cold man or he's not really da-da-da-da-da. 353 00:15:34.065 --> 00:15:35.561 And that's when I knew like, 354 00:15:35.581 --> 00:15:35.701 OK, 355 00:15:35.841 --> 00:15:36.102 you know, 356 00:15:36.103 --> 00:15:39.243 it was not just me being biased because I didn't play enough. 357 00:15:39.544 --> 00:15:40.104 Like a lot of... 358 00:15:40.184 --> 00:15:44.557 players felt that way like Steven Gerrard played every game right Fernando Torres was 359 00:15:45.078 --> 00:15:56.569 Benitez favorite but even them they had certain opinions about him so and again you know I guess it's part of a manager style but this is just my experience I would say 360 00:15:58.653 --> 00:16:06.624 I wish it was different maybe my Liverpool career was maybe even way better but I'm still very very grateful for the things that have learned 361 00:16:07.520 --> 00:16:10.061 throughout the short four years that I was there. 362 00:16:11.710 --> 00:16:13.491 And I took that further in my career. 363 00:16:14.775 --> 00:16:15.015 You know, 364 00:16:15.055 --> 00:16:17.016 it's really interesting what you are talking about, 365 00:16:17.656 --> 00:16:17.876 Ryan, 366 00:16:17.956 --> 00:16:18.436 because 367 00:16:19.293 --> 00:16:20.193 I came at the same age, 368 00:16:20.393 --> 00:16:21.014 roughly like you, 369 00:16:21.034 --> 00:16:21.414 around 20. 370 00:16:22.618 --> 00:16:27.020 And I think you don't realize the magnitude of this football club. 371 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:27.600 Yes. 372 00:16:28.341 --> 00:16:29.841 So you are so happy to sign, 373 00:16:30.081 --> 00:16:30.922 so happy you say, 374 00:16:30.942 --> 00:16:31.062 OK, 375 00:16:31.142 --> 00:16:32.302 you will play for Liverpool. 376 00:16:32.982 --> 00:16:33.103 But 377 00:16:33.583 --> 00:16:35.644 I think you don't understand the... 378 00:16:37.244 --> 00:16:56.927 the pressure and the managers and the massive pressure yeah so on the phone uh i had gerard ulyay you know so yeah rafa also uh before to to go to rangers yeah and different type of two different type of guys you know and completely different but i think it's uh it's uh the 379 00:16:56.967 --> 00:17:06.404 expectation so high so so i understand why you're talking you know yeah i think about the your feeling about you know the relationship with Rafa 380 00:17:06.700 --> 00:17:24.401 oh yeah because because when you are young i think it's really tough and uh but i think for me you did really really great you know you had for me good spell liverpool i remember you like you know a fast player you know yeah yeah yeah and uh 381 00:17:24.421 --> 00:17:34.559 and to be honest you had some really really good games you know and yeah important one or so you know and i remember the one when you crossed for stevie i think he was yeah it was a game you know when he scored the third goal or something yes 382 00:17:36.312 --> 00:17:36.712 Yes. 383 00:17:37.593 --> 00:17:40.675 So I think you can be proud about your Liverpool years. 384 00:17:40.835 --> 00:17:42.660 Yeah. 385 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:45.601 Was there ever a point where you said to Rafa, 386 00:17:45.661 --> 00:17:46.942 why the fuck am I not playing? 387 00:17:47.643 --> 00:17:47.763 Yeah, 388 00:17:47.863 --> 00:17:48.023 yeah, 389 00:17:48.083 --> 00:17:48.203 yeah. 390 00:17:50.432 --> 00:17:50.592 Yes, 391 00:17:50.652 --> 00:17:51.013 I did. 392 00:17:52.474 --> 00:17:53.334 But not in that way. 393 00:17:56.316 --> 00:17:57.436 Even worse. 394 00:18:00.398 --> 00:18:00.518 No, 395 00:18:00.658 --> 00:18:01.359 but yeah, 396 00:18:01.360 --> 00:18:01.559 I mean, 397 00:18:01.619 --> 00:18:01.779 look, 398 00:18:02.259 --> 00:18:02.620 I think 399 00:18:04.264 --> 00:18:04.544 You know, 400 00:18:04.604 --> 00:18:05.925 there were times where I felt like, 401 00:18:05.965 --> 00:18:06.185 okay, 402 00:18:06.245 --> 00:18:06.966 I trained well, 403 00:18:07.106 --> 00:18:08.767 I see the players telling me, 404 00:18:08.887 --> 00:18:09.647 complimenting me, 405 00:18:09.667 --> 00:18:09.848 like, 406 00:18:09.888 --> 00:18:10.208 well done, 407 00:18:10.268 --> 00:18:10.468 Ryan, 408 00:18:10.548 --> 00:18:11.208 keep continuing, 409 00:18:11.209 --> 00:18:11.909 keep continuing. 410 00:18:12.865 --> 00:18:15.627 And then I didn't get a lot of playtime or enough playtime. 411 00:18:15.667 --> 00:18:15.787 So, 412 00:18:15.887 --> 00:18:16.007 yeah, 413 00:18:16.307 --> 00:18:17.548 I would go to his office and, 414 00:18:18.292 --> 00:18:18.552 you know, 415 00:18:18.612 --> 00:18:19.093 would ask. 416 00:18:19.133 --> 00:18:22.502 And then his words were, 417 00:18:23.659 --> 00:18:24.639 he would give me feedback, 418 00:18:24.719 --> 00:18:27.881 but I would not say feedback that really helped me. 419 00:18:29.010 --> 00:18:30.310 So he would just say like, 420 00:18:31.563 --> 00:18:31.723 yeah, 421 00:18:31.823 --> 00:18:31.983 yeah, 422 00:18:32.383 --> 00:18:33.304 you have to work hard. 423 00:18:34.264 --> 00:18:35.004 Look at Benayoun, 424 00:18:35.205 --> 00:18:35.825 look at Dirk, 425 00:18:36.333 --> 00:18:36.973 they work hard. 426 00:18:38.249 --> 00:18:38.509 Okay, 427 00:18:38.649 --> 00:18:40.770 but what does working hard mean? 428 00:18:41.530 --> 00:18:41.650 Yeah, 429 00:18:41.651 --> 00:18:42.991 you have to do more in defending. 430 00:18:43.639 --> 00:18:44.379 And I was thinking like, 431 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:44.639 oh, 432 00:18:44.819 --> 00:18:45.039 okay, 433 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:45.340 cool. 434 00:18:45.520 --> 00:18:47.060 So I would try and, 435 00:18:47.120 --> 00:18:47.340 you know, 436 00:18:47.341 --> 00:18:48.140 he would keep it short. 437 00:18:48.717 --> 00:18:49.577 So then I would look at, 438 00:18:49.597 --> 00:18:49.977 of course, 439 00:18:50.037 --> 00:18:50.257 Dirk, 440 00:18:50.297 --> 00:18:51.818 because Dirk was the ideal, 441 00:18:53.018 --> 00:18:53.518 I would say, 442 00:18:55.583 --> 00:18:56.683 role model with, 443 00:18:56.823 --> 00:18:57.123 you know, 444 00:18:57.183 --> 00:18:58.784 the working hard type of player. 445 00:18:59.984 --> 00:19:00.684 And then I realized, 446 00:19:00.764 --> 00:19:00.924 oh, 447 00:19:01.005 --> 00:19:01.245 okay, 448 00:19:01.325 --> 00:19:01.545 yeah, 449 00:19:01.565 --> 00:19:03.746 so Dirk is really like sprinting back and blah, 450 00:19:03.747 --> 00:19:03.866 blah, 451 00:19:03.867 --> 00:19:03.986 blah, 452 00:19:03.987 --> 00:19:04.106 blah, 453 00:19:04.126 --> 00:19:04.346 blah, 454 00:19:04.386 --> 00:19:05.006 and tracking back. 455 00:19:05.007 --> 00:19:05.366 So I was like, 456 00:19:05.406 --> 00:19:05.607 okay, 457 00:19:05.667 --> 00:19:05.867 cool, 458 00:19:06.439 --> 00:19:07.119 I will do that now. 459 00:19:07.479 --> 00:19:07.679 More, 460 00:19:07.779 --> 00:19:08.000 right? 461 00:19:09.708 --> 00:19:11.160 And again, 462 00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:11.681 like I said, 463 00:19:11.721 --> 00:19:13.461 I had to get used to the 4-4-2 system. 464 00:19:13.501 --> 00:19:18.163 So now I put a lot of energy in helping my full back and tracking back. 465 00:19:18.820 --> 00:19:20.620 But now I had no energy to attack, 466 00:19:21.705 --> 00:19:21.905 right? 467 00:19:22.025 --> 00:19:26.347 I had no legs anymore to go forward and sprint behind the defenders. 468 00:19:26.707 --> 00:19:27.695 So yes, 469 00:19:27.715 --> 00:19:28.916 I did my defending part, 470 00:19:29.016 --> 00:19:29.196 but... 471 00:19:29.516 --> 00:19:29.836 Actually, 472 00:19:31.757 --> 00:19:36.620 I had no added value for the attacking force. 473 00:19:37.108 --> 00:19:39.109 So I was still not playing because now it was like, 474 00:19:39.309 --> 00:19:39.469 oh, 475 00:19:39.549 --> 00:19:40.870 you don't show me enough in front. 476 00:19:40.910 --> 00:19:41.270 I was like, 477 00:19:41.311 --> 00:19:41.551 fuck. 478 00:19:44.734 --> 00:20:01.644 okay how do you explain a player to be more clever and to be more smart and like look this is the way you'll be more clever in defending so you save time so you save power and energy to them still go forward and i felt like me getting used to the 4-4-2 system and the 479 00:20:01.684 --> 00:20:09.672 the lines of walking you know getting narrow come back going forward shifting that was for me again like the whole my whole life. 480 00:20:10.032 --> 00:20:13.314 4-3-3 system and Ajax system and the mindset was like... 481 00:20:13.918 --> 00:20:14.138 Ryan, 482 00:20:14.158 --> 00:20:17.899 you don't have to come all the way back because we have a left midfielder and we have a left back. 483 00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:19.160 We need you in front. 484 00:20:19.816 --> 00:20:23.133 So my defensive jobs would end at midline, 485 00:20:23.941 --> 00:20:24.141 right? 486 00:20:24.161 --> 00:20:28.142 And I would stay a little bit at the midline and then we would regain the ball and now I would go forward. 487 00:20:28.143 --> 00:20:31.459 So I had enough time and strength to go forward. 488 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:33.540 I never came back all the way to the byline, 489 00:20:33.560 --> 00:20:34.360 my own byline. 490 00:20:34.828 --> 00:20:34.948 So 491 00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:36.920 I had to get used to that. 492 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:39.361 How can I be clever with my lungs, 493 00:20:39.841 --> 00:20:40.441 with my legs? 494 00:20:41.450 --> 00:20:43.090 And he would not really explain that to me. 495 00:20:43.290 --> 00:21:01.858 right and so for the after the third four time you know you could tell like benitez was very upset with me coming to his office all the time and he was like you know uh he he had in one of the last conversations he he had sami lee also joining the the 496 00:21:02.598 --> 00:21:11.922 the the the meeting and then he had sami lee talking to me and you know sami lee sami lee is very aggressive sami is very direct he's like listen son you have to you 497 00:21:12.586 --> 00:21:31.230 fuck off now and shut up and and just fucking uh train harder and you will get your chance and i was like i just want to know how i can improve like i genuinely want to learn fuck off right and so it was very dead and again like i said i was 22 i was 21 right and and 498 00:21:31.862 --> 00:21:41.534 that to me i guess broke up the relationship also a little bit more as in like i didn't felt in the moment appreciated or liked enough right and 499 00:21:41.774 --> 00:21:42.895 It was very confusing. 500 00:21:44.235 --> 00:21:48.725 You were looking for more qualification and a way to understand the game. 501 00:21:50.126 --> 00:21:50.406 Yes, 502 00:21:50.506 --> 00:21:51.386 because 503 00:21:51.726 --> 00:21:53.987 I learned a lot from the other players in my position. 504 00:21:54.387 --> 00:21:55.028 For example, 505 00:21:56.428 --> 00:21:58.129 and that was also the confusing part, 506 00:21:58.189 --> 00:22:00.878 because the type of player I was, 507 00:22:01.550 --> 00:22:04.351 they expected me almost only to make runs. 508 00:22:05.183 --> 00:22:07.584 They would be so angry if I would ask the ball on my feet. 509 00:22:08.737 --> 00:22:10.345 But they told me, 510 00:22:10.506 --> 00:22:11.206 look at Benayoun. 511 00:22:11.618 --> 00:22:13.700 But Benayan would not run behind the defender. 512 00:22:13.701 --> 00:22:14.580 He would be inside. 513 00:22:14.581 --> 00:22:15.581 He would be in the ball. 514 00:22:15.641 --> 00:22:17.146 In between lines. 515 00:22:17.386 --> 00:22:17.586 Yeah, 516 00:22:17.646 --> 00:22:18.127 and I was like, 517 00:22:18.187 --> 00:22:18.947 I can play that too. 518 00:22:18.967 --> 00:22:19.768 So I would try that, 519 00:22:19.808 --> 00:22:21.149 and then they would shout at me, 520 00:22:21.209 --> 00:22:21.489 Ryan, 521 00:22:21.569 --> 00:22:23.130 stay wide and play higher. 522 00:22:23.131 --> 00:22:23.991 And I was so confused. 523 00:22:23.992 --> 00:22:24.311 I was like, 524 00:22:24.611 --> 00:22:25.892 you told me to look at Yoshi. 525 00:22:26.573 --> 00:22:26.833 You know, 526 00:22:26.893 --> 00:22:27.113 like, 527 00:22:27.874 --> 00:22:28.514 what's going on? 528 00:22:29.775 --> 00:22:30.696 So that was very, 529 00:22:30.776 --> 00:22:31.837 very confusing for me, 530 00:22:31.897 --> 00:22:32.097 right? 531 00:22:33.626 --> 00:22:37.408 And that played a lot of part in insecurities and not sure, 532 00:22:37.629 --> 00:22:37.869 you know, 533 00:22:37.929 --> 00:22:38.929 trusting my abilities. 534 00:22:40.226 --> 00:22:44.467 all the time and I think that's why I had a lot of impact on my career at Liverpool. 535 00:22:44.487 --> 00:22:45.628 I was very inconsistent. 536 00:22:45.629 --> 00:22:50.265 I had a few great games and then the next games I would totally not play well, 537 00:22:50.345 --> 00:22:50.545 right? 538 00:22:50.546 --> 00:22:52.026 So it was very inconsistent. 539 00:22:53.742 --> 00:22:55.342 Did you have this feeling up and down? 540 00:22:55.894 --> 00:22:56.695 Yeah, 541 00:22:56.715 --> 00:22:58.075 it was very inconsistent because 542 00:22:58.475 --> 00:23:01.832 I would sometimes play well two games in a row, 543 00:23:03.064 --> 00:23:08.606 then the third game I would not play so well and then all of a sudden the fourth game I was not in the squad. 544 00:23:09.374 --> 00:23:09.734 I was like, 545 00:23:09.774 --> 00:23:09.895 oh, 546 00:23:10.371 --> 00:23:10.651 you know, 547 00:23:10.751 --> 00:23:15.066 so then it completely affected my self-confidence and my whatever, 548 00:23:15.146 --> 00:23:15.366 right? 549 00:23:18.291 --> 00:23:19.532 And it was a total way, 550 00:23:19.612 --> 00:23:22.194 a total different way what I was used to in Ajax. 551 00:23:22.434 --> 00:23:29.119 A coach in Ajax would come to you and would analyze your game and would put the arms over your shoulder and be like, 552 00:23:29.159 --> 00:23:29.319 look, 553 00:23:30.460 --> 00:23:31.420 why did you not play well? 554 00:23:31.460 --> 00:23:32.982 Because this and that, 555 00:23:33.102 --> 00:23:34.683 and you were doing too much this. 556 00:23:35.283 --> 00:23:35.764 And I was like, 557 00:23:35.884 --> 00:23:36.104 oh, 558 00:23:36.284 --> 00:23:36.444 oh, 559 00:23:36.504 --> 00:23:37.165 so you would learn. 560 00:23:37.265 --> 00:23:38.566 And then the whole week of training, 561 00:23:38.586 --> 00:23:38.826 you would... 562 00:23:39.350 --> 00:24:02.187 pay attention and in the next game you learn from it but there was no communication i had to figure it out why did i play bad why am i not now outside of the squad why it was very difficult it was very difficult yeah interesting yeah no it's crazy when you don't realize what's going on behind oh beyond the scene there is a lot of things where you cannot imagine yeah yeah um 563 00:24:02.347 --> 00:24:08.986 so eventually uh you obviously got out of liverpool and went to hoffenheim um 564 00:24:09.270 --> 00:24:11.171 Was that something where you chatted to him and said, 565 00:24:11.431 --> 00:24:11.991 I've had enough, 566 00:24:12.775 --> 00:24:13.635 I want to leave now? 567 00:24:16.520 --> 00:24:17.000 I would say, 568 00:24:17.140 --> 00:24:17.420 yeah. 569 00:24:18.320 --> 00:24:20.021 And I do regret that decision. 570 00:24:21.633 --> 00:24:22.254 But also, 571 00:24:23.202 --> 00:24:27.583 I was a little bit pressured from all different sides because even though I was not, 572 00:24:28.163 --> 00:24:28.543 let's say, 573 00:24:28.684 --> 00:24:30.344 an ultimate starter for Liverpool, 574 00:24:31.236 --> 00:24:34.017 I was already in the national team since 18. 575 00:24:34.397 --> 00:24:35.097 And since then, 576 00:24:35.197 --> 00:24:36.718 I've always been selected. 577 00:24:37.350 --> 00:24:37.890 And now... 578 00:24:38.813 --> 00:24:42.776 There was a change of managers and now the manager put pressure to say like, 579 00:24:42.777 --> 00:24:42.896 hey, 580 00:24:42.956 --> 00:24:43.216 listen, 581 00:24:44.244 --> 00:24:49.608 you're not having as much playtime as I want you to play to remain a national team. 582 00:24:49.688 --> 00:24:51.769 So if you're not going to find playtime soon, 583 00:24:52.406 --> 00:24:55.648 I have to kick you out of the squad and have to give other players a chance. 584 00:24:56.324 --> 00:24:58.045 And that was also something I was like, 585 00:24:58.046 --> 00:24:58.166 no, 586 00:24:58.246 --> 00:24:59.707 I want to remain a national team, 587 00:24:59.767 --> 00:24:59.967 right? 588 00:25:00.027 --> 00:25:03.557 And I remember World Cup 2010 was around the corner. 589 00:25:04.597 --> 00:25:05.718 So now it was like, 590 00:25:05.778 --> 00:25:05.978 shit, 591 00:25:05.998 --> 00:25:07.600 I need to find a team to play. 592 00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:10.722 And at that time also, 593 00:25:11.563 --> 00:25:12.184 after Rafa, 594 00:25:12.284 --> 00:25:13.204 you had Roy Hudson, 595 00:25:13.993 --> 00:25:14.994 who came as manager. 596 00:25:15.014 --> 00:25:15.954 And then he promised me, 597 00:25:16.035 --> 00:25:16.215 like, 598 00:25:16.216 --> 00:25:17.196 you get more play time. 599 00:25:17.236 --> 00:25:17.396 Now, 600 00:25:17.456 --> 00:25:19.157 he was under pressure from day one. 601 00:25:19.666 --> 00:25:22.028 So he used still more experienced players. 602 00:25:22.088 --> 00:25:23.169 And I still didn't play enough. 603 00:25:23.817 --> 00:25:25.218 Then after Kenny Douglas came, 604 00:25:26.358 --> 00:25:29.621 and that was in that short spell of window where Kenny Douglas also said, 605 00:25:29.661 --> 00:25:29.821 like, 606 00:25:30.258 --> 00:25:30.758 I like you. 607 00:25:30.838 --> 00:25:31.559 You're going to play a lot. 608 00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:32.239 But at that time, 609 00:25:32.936 --> 00:25:34.057 almost I didn't believe. 610 00:25:35.709 --> 00:25:36.630 Liverpool anymore. 611 00:25:36.650 --> 00:25:37.430 I was thinking like, 612 00:25:37.970 --> 00:25:38.091 no, 613 00:25:38.311 --> 00:25:42.873 they just want me to maintain the club and then just holding me and blah, 614 00:25:45.066 --> 00:25:47.768 And then I decided to go to Hoffenheim, 615 00:25:48.108 --> 00:25:48.629 that window, 616 00:25:48.869 --> 00:25:51.718 just for the sake of finding a team to play. 617 00:25:53.047 --> 00:26:01.463 But I didn't do enough research because Hoffenheim was eventually not the right team for me in the sense of 618 00:26:02.059 --> 00:26:02.980 I was used to Ajax, 619 00:26:03.040 --> 00:26:04.020 I was used to Liverpool, 620 00:26:04.100 --> 00:26:04.681 I was used to... 621 00:26:05.357 --> 00:26:31.071 a team that was dominating and now you're joining a team respectfully at that time who was more chasing the ball than having the ball so i did not now i had to learn okay now you're gonna and and it helped my career more maturing but if you look at my stats like my stats were very poor like we would play we were so far i was like 80 defending and against all these big teams and and you 622 00:26:31.072 --> 00:26:32.513 did not had the ball a lot and 623 00:26:33.725 --> 00:26:35.186 It was a totally different experience. 624 00:26:35.791 --> 00:26:36.892 And then I played everything, 625 00:26:37.952 --> 00:26:39.994 but then the manager still kicked me out of the national team. 626 00:26:40.054 --> 00:26:40.334 So, 627 00:26:40.995 --> 00:26:41.315 you see, 628 00:26:41.815 --> 00:26:46.980 it was a fucking disaster at that time and I regretted leaving Liverpool just for the national team. 629 00:26:47.988 --> 00:26:48.349 I wish 630 00:26:48.989 --> 00:26:51.211 I would have remained at Liverpool and maybe 631 00:26:51.936 --> 00:26:55.239 Kenny Douglas would have given me a chance and things would have changed, 632 00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:55.499 right? 633 00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:58.762 And that was also the time when Liverpool went through a change. 634 00:26:58.802 --> 00:26:59.923 Fernando Torres left, 635 00:26:59.963 --> 00:27:00.923 a lot of players left. 636 00:27:00.984 --> 00:27:02.285 Xabi Alonso left to Madrid. 637 00:27:03.773 --> 00:27:10.825 A lot of new players came and maybe it could have been a great time to start again and rebuild your position. 638 00:27:12.161 --> 00:27:15.182 So I definitely do regret that decision in my career to leave Liverpool. 639 00:27:15.590 --> 00:27:17.211 You are not the first one to say that, 640 00:27:17.212 --> 00:27:18.872 so you will be the last one. 641 00:27:19.112 --> 00:27:20.553 Yes, 642 00:27:21.493 --> 00:27:21.753 yes. 643 00:27:23.518 --> 00:27:25.079 And after Hoffenheim, 644 00:27:25.439 --> 00:27:28.900 you went back to Ajax for a period of time. 645 00:27:30.677 --> 00:27:30.977 Again, 646 00:27:31.038 --> 00:27:32.179 was that just going home, 647 00:27:32.259 --> 00:27:36.310 trying to recapture the Ajax thing? 648 00:27:36.311 --> 00:27:39.349 Was that move based on everything you've just said there? 649 00:27:39.389 --> 00:27:39.549 Like, 650 00:27:39.550 --> 00:27:40.450 you were comfortable there? 651 00:27:40.570 --> 00:27:40.710 Yeah. 652 00:27:41.190 --> 00:27:41.391 Well, 653 00:27:42.051 --> 00:27:43.432 it was a strategic move. 654 00:27:44.173 --> 00:27:46.135 It was literally just for one season. 655 00:27:47.467 --> 00:27:47.768 Also, 656 00:27:48.548 --> 00:27:49.830 that was another time of, 657 00:27:50.766 --> 00:27:51.106 again, 658 00:27:51.207 --> 00:27:52.808 a new manager at national team. 659 00:27:52.928 --> 00:27:55.170 And Louis van Gaal came back in national team. 660 00:27:55.250 --> 00:27:56.411 And what Louis van Gaal did, 661 00:27:57.252 --> 00:27:58.693 he started kicking out old... 662 00:27:58.773 --> 00:28:02.997 players and started selecting a lot of players from the Eredivisie in the Netherlands. 663 00:28:04.598 --> 00:28:05.158 At that time, 664 00:28:05.178 --> 00:28:07.961 I was not already for two years in the national team. 665 00:28:08.101 --> 00:28:08.882 And I was like, 666 00:28:08.922 --> 00:28:09.142 okay, 667 00:28:09.222 --> 00:28:10.844 maybe if I go back to Ajax, 668 00:28:11.848 --> 00:28:14.270 then I will be in the eye of Louis van Gaal. 669 00:28:15.419 --> 00:28:15.539 So 670 00:28:15.999 --> 00:28:16.300 I was, 671 00:28:16.540 --> 00:28:17.161 I think I was, 672 00:28:17.941 --> 00:28:18.602 how old was I? 673 00:28:18.642 --> 00:28:19.463 I think I was 674 00:28:21.064 --> 00:28:27.064 25. I think I was 25, 675 00:28:27.065 --> 00:28:27.625 24. 676 00:28:28.097 --> 00:28:28.738 When I went back, 677 00:28:29.346 --> 00:28:30.547 so I went back for one season, 678 00:28:30.627 --> 00:28:31.508 I had a good season, 679 00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:36.900 and then after the season I was still not getting back to the national team. 680 00:28:37.621 --> 00:28:38.882 And that's when I went to Turkey, 681 00:28:39.998 --> 00:28:40.278 you know, 682 00:28:40.338 --> 00:28:41.680 so now it was kind of like, 683 00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:41.960 okay, 684 00:28:42.020 --> 00:28:42.460 you know what, 685 00:28:43.149 --> 00:28:49.318 let me just make decisions based on also the economic aspect of things, 686 00:28:49.378 --> 00:28:52.881 instead of being blind to just playing for great teams, 687 00:28:52.941 --> 00:28:55.311 but not looking at really my future, 688 00:28:55.312 --> 00:28:57.393 because already I had children and everything. 689 00:28:58.353 --> 00:28:58.734 And, 690 00:29:01.071 --> 00:29:01.211 yeah, 691 00:29:01.311 --> 00:29:01.852 after a year, 692 00:29:01.912 --> 00:29:02.973 I was a free transfer. 693 00:29:04.041 --> 00:29:05.363 And normally you would think, 694 00:29:06.007 --> 00:29:06.187 hey, 695 00:29:06.267 --> 00:29:08.810 you can pick up Ryan Barbel at age 25, 696 00:29:08.811 --> 00:29:09.430 age 26. 697 00:29:09.710 --> 00:29:09.831 No, 698 00:29:10.011 --> 00:29:10.791 no transfer fee. 699 00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:14.566 But the teams that I wanted to play for, 700 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:16.480 they were not interested, 701 00:29:16.820 --> 00:29:17.060 right? 702 00:29:17.420 --> 00:29:19.062 Or they already had a lot of players. 703 00:29:19.102 --> 00:29:22.077 I remember my agent reaching out to Dortmund. 704 00:29:22.517 --> 00:29:23.878 And Jurgen Klopp was at Dortmund. 705 00:29:24.515 --> 00:29:25.616 And then Jurgen Klopp was like, 706 00:29:25.696 --> 00:29:26.176 oh, 707 00:29:26.196 --> 00:29:26.837 I love Ryan, 708 00:29:26.897 --> 00:29:27.037 but... 709 00:29:27.257 --> 00:29:28.498 we already have Mario Götze. 710 00:29:29.776 --> 00:29:30.076 You know, 711 00:29:30.136 --> 00:29:30.957 so yeah, 712 00:29:31.197 --> 00:29:33.820 if you have already a player and he was the future Dortmund, 713 00:29:33.860 --> 00:29:35.342 like they're not going to sign other players, 714 00:29:35.382 --> 00:29:35.562 right? 715 00:29:35.582 --> 00:29:37.965 So timing was not in my favor. 716 00:29:38.951 --> 00:29:41.152 That's when I chose to have, 717 00:29:41.832 --> 00:29:41.992 yeah, 718 00:29:42.132 --> 00:29:42.393 you know, 719 00:29:42.453 --> 00:29:43.353 a journey in Turkey. 720 00:29:44.397 --> 00:29:47.319 And that's how my Turkish career started there. 721 00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:51.540 And I started falling in love with the Turkish league and with the culture and with the football. 722 00:29:51.620 --> 00:29:52.761 And yeah, 723 00:29:52.821 --> 00:29:55.922 I ended up playing 10 years in Turkey for four different teams. 724 00:29:55.942 --> 00:29:56.202 You know, 725 00:29:56.203 --> 00:29:57.783 it was a great time in my career. 726 00:29:58.810 --> 00:30:06.598 Do you think the Turkish football allowed you as a player to flourish more and attack more than everything else? 727 00:30:06.898 --> 00:30:07.939 Absolutely. 728 00:30:08.019 --> 00:30:13.593 I think the Turkish league and the people and in general the clubs have way more, 729 00:30:14.574 --> 00:30:15.234 I would say, 730 00:30:16.439 --> 00:30:17.927 trust in players. 731 00:30:19.632 --> 00:30:19.992 Of course, 732 00:30:20.012 --> 00:30:21.813 it's not easy because if you don't show it, 733 00:30:22.193 --> 00:30:23.734 you're very quickly kicked out. 734 00:30:25.058 --> 00:30:29.322 They have more respect for what you have shown before and your career that you have had. 735 00:30:29.382 --> 00:30:30.643 And they also treat you that way. 736 00:30:30.723 --> 00:30:32.449 And that was very nice. 737 00:30:32.450 --> 00:30:35.311 I'm very grateful for my time in Turkey and the people I've met, 738 00:30:35.491 --> 00:30:36.873 all the teams that I played for there, 739 00:30:36.913 --> 00:30:37.193 you know. 740 00:30:38.374 --> 00:30:39.635 And that also gave me, 741 00:30:39.975 --> 00:30:40.295 again, 742 00:30:41.116 --> 00:30:42.317 the moment to flourish back. 743 00:30:42.397 --> 00:30:44.078 And when I was in Turkey, 744 00:30:44.198 --> 00:30:45.480 I came back a national team. 745 00:30:45.820 --> 00:30:49.263 I played back Champions League football with Besiktas and Galatasaray. 746 00:30:50.203 --> 00:30:51.717 And so, 747 00:30:52.317 --> 00:30:52.437 yeah, 748 00:30:52.657 --> 00:30:52.878 great, 749 00:30:52.938 --> 00:30:53.358 great time. 750 00:30:55.139 --> 00:30:56.600 And obviously in between then, 751 00:30:57.200 --> 00:31:00.579 you had a spell at Fulham as well. 752 00:31:00.619 --> 00:31:01.060 Was that, 753 00:31:02.797 --> 00:31:08.421 I want to try something different from the Turkish league and we're going to try and do it again in England? 754 00:31:08.542 --> 00:31:10.123 What made the Fulham move come around? 755 00:31:10.543 --> 00:31:13.033 I would say timing was perfect. 756 00:31:14.595 --> 00:31:16.596 Fulham needed some extra manpower. 757 00:31:16.636 --> 00:31:17.697 They were not doing well. 758 00:31:18.766 --> 00:31:23.169 And I was in my last season with Besiktas trying to negotiate a new contract. 759 00:31:23.330 --> 00:31:23.510 And, 760 00:31:23.830 --> 00:31:23.950 uh, 761 00:31:24.010 --> 00:31:28.164 when me and Besiktas were not really on the same page, 762 00:31:28.224 --> 00:31:28.865 unfortunately, 763 00:31:28.905 --> 00:31:29.905 because I wanted to stay. 764 00:31:30.494 --> 00:31:31.775 I had to look further to see, 765 00:31:31.835 --> 00:31:32.115 okay, 766 00:31:32.455 --> 00:31:35.113 in case I end up not signing, 767 00:31:35.273 --> 00:31:36.093 what are the options? 768 00:31:36.153 --> 00:31:37.794 And Fulham reached out, 769 00:31:37.914 --> 00:31:38.475 and that was, 770 00:31:38.875 --> 00:31:39.355 of course, 771 00:31:39.455 --> 00:31:42.537 something that I did not expect to get back into the Premier League. 772 00:31:43.498 --> 00:31:49.053 So that was now a chance of showing the English crowd and fans who... 773 00:31:50.774 --> 00:31:53.415 Maybe still had the idea of Ryan Babel at Liverpool, 774 00:31:53.475 --> 00:31:54.695 who was not maturing, 775 00:31:54.715 --> 00:31:55.736 who was still a young player, 776 00:31:55.796 --> 00:31:56.796 to come back and to see, 777 00:31:56.856 --> 00:31:56.996 look, 778 00:31:57.116 --> 00:31:58.416 this is the player that I have become, 779 00:31:58.557 --> 00:31:58.757 right? 780 00:31:58.758 --> 00:32:03.026 Because I think I joined Liverpool at age 31 or age 32, 781 00:32:03.126 --> 00:32:03.726 something like that. 782 00:32:03.766 --> 00:32:04.146 And I was, 783 00:32:04.326 --> 00:32:04.766 of course, 784 00:32:04.767 --> 00:32:05.547 a mature player. 785 00:32:05.587 --> 00:32:05.867 I was, 786 00:32:06.703 --> 00:32:06.983 you know, 787 00:32:07.063 --> 00:32:08.411 and yeah, 788 00:32:08.412 --> 00:32:09.072 and even though, 789 00:32:09.372 --> 00:32:10.312 you know, 790 00:32:10.572 --> 00:32:13.233 I couldn't help Fulham enough to maintain in Premier League, 791 00:32:13.413 --> 00:32:16.594 I think personally I had a good spell at Fulham. 792 00:32:17.706 --> 00:32:18.807 And I think, 793 00:32:19.328 --> 00:32:19.588 you know, 794 00:32:19.589 --> 00:32:26.430 the Premier League and the English fans were definitely fond of my return and to see the player I've become. 795 00:32:26.470 --> 00:32:28.652 And I was very grateful for that time at Fulham. 796 00:32:30.277 --> 00:32:31.938 And obviously then back to 797 00:32:32.419 --> 00:32:33.339 Galatasaray. 798 00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:38.916 Yeah. Are the Turkish fans really as crazy as they look on TV? 799 00:32:39.396 --> 00:32:41.098 I've never been to a game of football in Turkey, 800 00:32:41.198 --> 00:32:44.561 but that atmosphere looks phenomenal. 801 00:32:44.861 --> 00:32:45.041 Yeah, 802 00:32:45.081 --> 00:32:45.242 yeah, 803 00:32:45.262 --> 00:32:45.422 yeah. 804 00:32:45.682 --> 00:32:45.802 No, 805 00:32:45.902 --> 00:32:46.042 yeah, 806 00:32:46.122 --> 00:32:48.544 it's an indescribable atmosphere. 807 00:32:48.545 --> 00:32:49.425 It's nothing like it. 808 00:32:49.485 --> 00:32:49.765 I mean, 809 00:32:50.630 --> 00:32:50.830 sure, 810 00:32:51.230 --> 00:32:54.693 the Premier League and the English fans are experienced in itself, 811 00:32:54.813 --> 00:33:02.646 but I would say the Turkish environment is a whole different ballgame and an experience. 812 00:33:04.591 --> 00:33:06.012 And that makes it so beautiful. 813 00:33:07.513 --> 00:33:09.394 The Turkish fans are very emotional, 814 00:33:09.474 --> 00:33:10.295 very invested. 815 00:33:11.283 --> 00:33:14.566 They care a lot about their team that they support. 816 00:33:16.510 --> 00:33:18.411 And that makes a lot of great games, 817 00:33:18.431 --> 00:33:19.571 a lot of passion, 818 00:33:19.591 --> 00:33:20.452 a lot of emotion. 819 00:33:21.464 --> 00:33:22.440 Yeah, 820 00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:23.460 Turkish football is, 821 00:33:23.941 --> 00:33:24.361 I would say, 822 00:33:24.441 --> 00:33:25.941 still very much underrated. 823 00:33:26.021 --> 00:33:27.502 I feel like they deserve more respect. 824 00:33:27.582 --> 00:33:31.923 But you see a lot of players catering slowly more to that league because, 825 00:33:32.867 --> 00:33:33.167 you know, 826 00:33:33.207 --> 00:33:35.028 they have also the economics often. 827 00:33:35.088 --> 00:33:36.348 And once you're there, 828 00:33:36.368 --> 00:33:37.629 you also play amazing football. 829 00:33:37.630 --> 00:33:39.990 And you can still play Champions League if you play for the right team, 830 00:33:40.070 --> 00:33:41.270 or Europa League. 831 00:33:41.986 --> 00:33:45.868 Often you're being treated more with respect and that's why I think a lot of players love Turkey. 832 00:33:46.840 --> 00:33:47.060 Yeah. 833 00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:48.301 Well, 834 00:33:48.521 --> 00:33:49.521 Mo Salah's there now, 835 00:33:49.681 --> 00:33:51.422 so we'll see how that... 836 00:33:51.922 --> 00:33:53.823 A lot of people were surprised by that move, 837 00:33:53.903 --> 00:33:56.064 but we'll see how that works out for him. 838 00:33:57.064 --> 00:34:01.390 It was also a loan spell back at Ajax. 839 00:34:02.470 --> 00:34:04.707 Were you back at Ajax for the third time? 840 00:34:04.708 --> 00:34:04.807 Yeah, 841 00:34:04.808 --> 00:34:05.247 yeah, 842 00:34:05.248 --> 00:34:05.328 yeah. 843 00:34:05.329 --> 00:34:06.348 Absolutely, 844 00:34:06.508 --> 00:34:07.008 yeah. 845 00:34:07.009 --> 00:34:08.629 That was right before COVID. 846 00:34:09.521 --> 00:34:09.861 And... 847 00:34:12.470 --> 00:34:16.513 One of the reasons was at that particular time with Galatasaray, 848 00:34:17.694 --> 00:34:19.315 things were not going so well with the team, 849 00:34:19.316 --> 00:34:20.296 there was a lot of pressure. 850 00:34:21.176 --> 00:34:23.194 But after that season, 851 00:34:24.538 --> 00:34:25.619 you had the Euros, 852 00:34:26.380 --> 00:34:27.561 Euros 2020, 853 00:34:27.821 --> 00:34:28.401 supposedly. 854 00:34:30.710 --> 00:34:30.991 And 855 00:34:33.984 --> 00:34:36.446 I remember in Galatasaray, 856 00:34:36.626 --> 00:34:38.808 because of the inconsistency of the team, 857 00:34:38.888 --> 00:34:41.610 it also had an effect on my self-confidence a little bit. 858 00:34:42.522 --> 00:34:44.164 I was not really coming in my game. 859 00:34:44.204 --> 00:34:49.186 I didn't have a great fullback behind me who understood my game. 860 00:34:49.246 --> 00:34:54.171 So it was very tough in alignment and connecting with the team. 861 00:34:54.372 --> 00:34:56.474 And too much rotations and I was like... 862 00:34:57.581 --> 00:34:57.721 You know, 863 00:34:57.741 --> 00:35:01.044 I need to make sure that I have a good season and then have great Euros, 864 00:35:01.124 --> 00:35:01.344 right? 865 00:35:01.424 --> 00:35:05.038 And I remember there was an opportunity to go back to Ajax again. 866 00:35:05.098 --> 00:35:07.360 And I knew the Ajax system and I saw the players. 867 00:35:07.361 --> 00:35:10.682 They had Hakim Ziyech and Frankie de Jong and all these players. 868 00:35:10.742 --> 00:35:12.344 I knew if I would come back, 869 00:35:13.044 --> 00:35:17.094 I would very quickly get back in my self-confidence. 870 00:35:17.095 --> 00:35:18.715 So that was a strategic move. 871 00:35:19.392 --> 00:35:23.275 Galatasaray was okay to put me on loan for a season. 872 00:35:23.475 --> 00:35:23.615 And 873 00:35:24.343 --> 00:35:26.165 I went to Ajax and then literally... 874 00:35:26.645 --> 00:35:44.268 one and a half months later kofi started kicking and the leaks were stopped so you know um was a very very short spell at ix yeah um and obviously you finished up and playing in turkey um and what 875 00:35:44.348 --> 00:35:55.893 what was the the reason that your uh career i know i because you're only 39 just now so you would have stopped playing about 36 37 37 um 876 00:35:56.033 --> 00:35:57.775 We were talking to Yossi Benayoun. 877 00:35:58.683 --> 00:36:00.445 He played up until he was 39. 878 00:36:01.109 --> 00:36:02.731 What was the reason? 879 00:36:02.771 --> 00:36:07.094 Was the body just starting to feel sore? 880 00:36:07.554 --> 00:36:07.694 Yeah, 881 00:36:07.754 --> 00:36:07.874 no, 882 00:36:07.974 --> 00:36:08.375 not at all. 883 00:36:08.515 --> 00:36:08.855 Actually, 884 00:36:09.175 --> 00:36:10.176 I could have continued. 885 00:36:10.536 --> 00:36:10.837 Easily, 886 00:36:11.077 --> 00:36:11.537 I would say, 887 00:36:11.818 --> 00:36:12.058 right? 888 00:36:12.178 --> 00:36:12.458 Easily. 889 00:36:13.635 --> 00:36:18.439 But the reason why I stopped was I stopped at 37 with that particular team. 890 00:36:18.679 --> 00:36:20.140 So I was a free transfer. 891 00:36:20.789 --> 00:36:24.492 And then I started looking for teams in Istanbul, 892 00:36:25.104 --> 00:36:25.344 right? 893 00:36:27.486 --> 00:36:28.466 I think you have like five, 894 00:36:28.506 --> 00:36:37.406 six teams in Istanbul and all the teams did not have either the economics or space in their squad. 895 00:36:37.446 --> 00:36:37.566 So 896 00:36:39.174 --> 00:36:41.555 I had some offers from abroad, 897 00:36:41.735 --> 00:36:42.556 but at that time, 898 00:36:42.596 --> 00:36:43.676 towards the end of my career, 899 00:36:43.696 --> 00:36:46.637 I was tired and traveling and my kids went to school in 900 00:36:47.017 --> 00:36:49.078 Istanbul. So I wanted to maintain in Istanbul, 901 00:36:49.198 --> 00:36:50.119 close to my family. 902 00:36:52.335 --> 00:36:53.336 And yeah, 903 00:36:53.436 --> 00:36:55.237 it was like an executive decision. 904 00:36:55.357 --> 00:36:55.777 was like 905 00:36:56.765 --> 00:37:00.388 I want to play just because I enjoy it still and I love it so much. 906 00:37:01.137 --> 00:37:08.063 But I don't want to be in Cyprus or in Qatar by myself or in Saudi by myself. 907 00:37:09.464 --> 00:37:10.605 I wanted to remain in Turkey. 908 00:37:10.825 --> 00:37:12.587 I wanted to be close to my family. 909 00:37:12.727 --> 00:37:17.531 And the teams in Istanbul did not have the right offer or had no space. 910 00:37:20.141 --> 00:37:20.741 And therefore, 911 00:37:20.742 --> 00:37:21.242 at one point, 912 00:37:21.282 --> 00:37:24.960 I was choosing my family over continuing. 913 00:37:25.461 --> 00:37:25.581 Yeah. 914 00:37:26.149 --> 00:37:29.552 And that's the reason for eventually retiring. 915 00:37:29.672 --> 00:37:29.852 But 916 00:37:32.058 --> 00:37:32.979 I could have played longer. 917 00:37:33.019 --> 00:37:34.700 I wish I could have played longer also, 918 00:37:34.900 --> 00:37:35.100 right, 919 00:37:35.101 --> 00:37:36.261 in the ideal situation. 920 00:37:36.342 --> 00:37:37.543 But at that time, 921 00:37:37.563 --> 00:37:42.587 I was tired traveling abroad and going to another team again and a new environment. 922 00:37:44.884 --> 00:37:47.026 So that was an executive decision. 923 00:37:47.086 --> 00:37:48.287 But my body was still fine. 924 00:37:48.748 --> 00:37:50.429 I'm sure if I continued, 925 00:37:50.469 --> 00:37:51.530 I would still play today, 926 00:37:51.670 --> 00:37:52.070 probably. 927 00:37:52.799 --> 00:37:54.949 I had no injuries. 928 00:37:55.509 --> 00:37:55.950 fine. 929 00:37:56.650 --> 00:37:58.411 I still also very importantly, 930 00:37:58.1000 --> 00:37:59.900 I liked it still, 931 00:38:00.241 --> 00:38:00.521 you know, 932 00:38:00.601 --> 00:38:03.083 because often players stop also because they're tired in their head. 933 00:38:03.143 --> 00:38:06.148 But yeah, 934 00:38:06.509 --> 00:38:07.029 that's the reason. 935 00:38:07.621 --> 00:38:07.741 Yeah, 936 00:38:07.761 --> 00:38:08.322 but don't forget, 937 00:38:08.362 --> 00:38:09.343 you're back to Liverpool now, 938 00:38:09.503 --> 00:38:10.583 so it's perfect for us. 939 00:38:11.224 --> 00:38:11.524 Right. 940 00:38:11.684 --> 00:38:13.946 Yeah, 941 00:38:14.106 --> 00:38:14.306 yeah. 942 00:38:15.467 --> 00:38:15.807 You know, 943 00:38:15.927 --> 00:38:18.441 so yeah. 944 00:38:18.442 --> 00:38:21.703 And we need to talk a bit about your international career as well. 945 00:38:22.804 --> 00:38:23.865 You played Thanks. 946 00:38:24.181 --> 00:38:26.842 A hell of a lot for the Netherlands, 947 00:38:27.918 --> 00:38:31.215 alongside some of the guys that you mentioned. 948 00:38:31.996 --> 00:38:33.236 Or it was Jossie actually, 949 00:38:33.396 --> 00:38:37.478 Robin van Persie and absolute legends like that. 950 00:38:37.858 --> 00:38:42.079 What was your international experiences like overall? 951 00:38:44.704 --> 00:38:44.924 Yeah, 952 00:38:44.925 --> 00:38:46.124 it was an interesting one. 953 00:38:46.284 --> 00:38:46.924 Different time, 954 00:38:47.245 --> 00:38:47.725 of course. 955 00:38:50.861 --> 00:38:51.021 Yeah, 956 00:38:51.121 --> 00:38:56.644 I joined the national team with all the experienced big players. 957 00:38:56.744 --> 00:38:57.825 Edwin van der Sar, 958 00:38:59.065 --> 00:39:00.185 Ruud van Nistelrooy, 959 00:39:01.086 --> 00:39:01.386 Cocu, 960 00:39:02.870 --> 00:39:06.424 Aria Robben was that time very still a young player. 961 00:39:06.484 --> 00:39:07.044 But already, 962 00:39:07.324 --> 00:39:07.564 you know, 963 00:39:07.945 --> 00:39:08.665 he was doing well. 964 00:39:08.705 --> 00:39:10.854 He was very established. 965 00:39:12.458 --> 00:39:12.899 But yeah, 966 00:39:12.999 --> 00:39:13.279 you know, 967 00:39:14.423 --> 00:39:15.744 I would say I learned a heck of a lot. 968 00:39:15.745 --> 00:39:16.744 It was a different time. 969 00:39:17.573 --> 00:39:18.133 If you look at 970 00:39:18.473 --> 00:39:19.734 Most national teams now, 971 00:39:19.875 --> 00:39:21.016 average age is maybe, 972 00:39:21.076 --> 00:39:21.216 what, 973 00:39:21.296 --> 00:39:21.836 23, 974 00:39:21.936 --> 00:39:22.557 22. 975 00:39:22.577 --> 00:39:23.958 And at that time, 976 00:39:24.038 --> 00:39:25.300 average age was 30 plus. 977 00:39:25.500 --> 00:39:27.742 And then you joined them as age 18. 978 00:39:27.802 --> 00:39:35.112 So you're one of the very few young players who joined a group of men who had already a big career. 979 00:39:35.212 --> 00:39:37.650 So it was a different time. 980 00:39:37.911 --> 00:39:38.952 And I learned a lot. 981 00:39:38.992 --> 00:39:40.433 I was very grateful for that time. 982 00:39:40.733 --> 00:39:45.289 I was part of the World Cup 2006. 983 00:39:45.409 --> 00:39:47.954 I missed Euros 2008 because of an injury. 984 00:39:48.635 --> 00:39:49.597 I came back, 985 00:39:49.637 --> 00:39:51.821 I experienced World Cup 2010 eventually, 986 00:39:52.434 --> 00:39:53.937 where we lost the final against Spain. 987 00:39:56.320 --> 00:39:56.520 But, 988 00:39:57.886 --> 00:39:58.046 yeah, 989 00:39:58.708 --> 00:39:59.188 I would say... 990 00:40:01.369 --> 00:40:06.675 My international career did not turn out to be what most players have had. 991 00:40:06.935 --> 00:40:11.521 That they had really great games and was a regular. 992 00:40:11.561 --> 00:40:12.342 Like I was always, 993 00:40:12.562 --> 00:40:13.102 I would say, 994 00:40:13.322 --> 00:40:15.683 a player that came from the bench and came in. 995 00:40:18.008 --> 00:40:18.228 Yes, 996 00:40:18.328 --> 00:40:19.609 sometimes these qualifiers, 997 00:40:19.649 --> 00:40:20.769 I had a start here and there. 998 00:40:20.829 --> 00:40:23.738 But if you look at the two World Cups that I was part of, 999 00:40:23.858 --> 00:40:27.680 I was mostly a bench player and then I came in or I didn't play at all. 1000 00:40:27.740 --> 00:40:29.877 So it could have been better. 1001 00:40:30.413 --> 00:40:31.134 But still, 1002 00:40:31.414 --> 00:40:33.455 almost 70 caps on my name, 1003 00:40:33.555 --> 00:40:33.815 you know. 1004 00:40:33.915 --> 00:40:34.035 So, 1005 00:40:35.128 --> 00:40:35.648 it's what it is. 1006 00:40:35.988 --> 00:40:36.468 Different time. 1007 00:40:37.149 --> 00:40:38.041 Yeah. 1008 00:40:38.042 --> 00:40:40.142 That would have been a hard team to break into. 1009 00:40:41.263 --> 00:40:42.063 That's for sure. 1010 00:40:42.244 --> 00:40:42.384 Yeah. 1011 00:40:43.204 --> 00:40:44.749 For sure. 1012 00:40:44.769 --> 00:40:44.889 Yeah. 1013 00:40:44.909 --> 00:40:45.089 But, 1014 00:40:45.701 --> 00:40:46.121 curious, 1015 00:40:46.481 --> 00:40:47.482 what do you do now, 1016 00:40:47.842 --> 00:40:48.142 Ryan? 1017 00:40:48.503 --> 00:40:52.985 I know there's mention of you do real estate stuff and, 1018 00:40:53.365 --> 00:40:53.605 you know, 1019 00:40:53.645 --> 00:40:55.346 potentially invest in other things. 1020 00:40:56.107 --> 00:40:59.037 But is there any future for Ryan Babble in football? 1021 00:40:59.577 --> 00:40:59.977 Any kind of... 1022 00:40:59.997 --> 00:41:21.695 coaching um i i don't know i don't know but it is it is i i leave the door slightly open for that adventure but um for now i would say not yet um in the last i would say year or so i i had the privilege to to 1023 00:41:21.775 --> 00:41:29.245 coach an under 16 for one day and and to coach some young teams and i must say this It is very fun to do. 1024 00:41:31.337 --> 00:41:36.091 to kind of teach these kids about football. 1025 00:41:36.763 --> 00:41:37.663 So it is fulfilling. 1026 00:41:38.571 --> 00:41:43.433 I don't know at the moment if it would be a passion for me to do that constantly, 1027 00:41:44.293 --> 00:41:44.613 day in, 1028 00:41:44.653 --> 00:41:45.053 day out. 1029 00:41:46.510 --> 00:41:49.130 So I let it come to me eventually. 1030 00:41:49.290 --> 00:41:51.623 But right now, 1031 00:41:51.923 --> 00:41:54.384 the things that I do in football is more, 1032 00:41:54.424 --> 00:41:54.824 I would say, 1033 00:41:54.844 --> 00:41:56.184 on the commercial side of things. 1034 00:41:56.224 --> 00:41:57.405 So what I do is... 1035 00:41:58.829 --> 00:42:06.896 I try to put brands together with former clubs. 1036 00:42:07.297 --> 00:42:07.417 So 1037 00:42:08.137 --> 00:42:19.662 I helped Galatasaray with a partnership that they are still trying to see if it's interesting enough to see if they can partner. 1038 00:42:20.394 --> 00:42:23.515 So kind of like bringing revenue to football teams. 1039 00:42:26.128 --> 00:42:26.789 And that's... 1040 00:42:27.553 --> 00:42:33.381 Helps me just by being still flexible and being able to travel and visit here and visit there. 1041 00:42:33.441 --> 00:42:38.484 So right now I don't want to be pinned down on one location because of my job or something, 1042 00:42:38.524 --> 00:42:38.745 right? 1043 00:42:39.025 --> 00:42:40.366 I like the freedom that I have. 1044 00:42:41.042 --> 00:42:41.903 I still enjoy it. 1045 00:42:42.523 --> 00:42:43.384 Throughout my career, 1046 00:42:43.524 --> 00:42:45.685 we did not have the freedom to just go anywhere, 1047 00:42:45.785 --> 00:42:46.025 right? 1048 00:42:46.086 --> 00:42:48.499 And right now I'm still enjoying my freedom. 1049 00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:49.079 And yeah, 1050 00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:51.241 that's one of the things I do when it comes to football. 1051 00:42:52.117 --> 00:42:52.337 I do, 1052 00:42:52.377 --> 00:42:52.778 of course, 1053 00:42:52.858 --> 00:42:54.019 also a lot of other things, 1054 00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:54.439 you know, 1055 00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:55.020 like you said, 1056 00:42:55.080 --> 00:42:55.840 real estate stuff. 1057 00:42:56.161 --> 00:42:58.042 But that doesn't require a lot of my time. 1058 00:42:58.062 --> 00:42:58.463 It's just, 1059 00:42:59.355 --> 00:42:59.655 you know, 1060 00:43:00.476 --> 00:43:01.477 mostly on the phone. 1061 00:43:01.478 --> 00:43:02.538 And you sometimes, 1062 00:43:02.758 --> 00:43:02.998 you know, 1063 00:43:03.058 --> 00:43:06.141 go watch a project or you travel and you have a lot of Zoom calls. 1064 00:43:08.022 --> 00:43:08.222 But, 1065 00:43:08.742 --> 00:43:08.882 yeah, 1066 00:43:08.943 --> 00:43:09.203 you know, 1067 00:43:09.563 --> 00:43:09.843 I mean, 1068 00:43:09.883 --> 00:43:12.125 I have a fashion agency with other people. 1069 00:43:12.886 --> 00:43:15.308 I have a music company that is in Los Angeles. 1070 00:43:16.128 --> 00:43:16.589 Right now, 1071 00:43:16.649 --> 00:43:21.253 I'm exploring a little bit creative directing in photography and film. 1072 00:43:22.125 --> 00:43:23.646 But it's just my interest, 1073 00:43:23.946 --> 00:43:25.707 just trying to see if it thinks that it's, 1074 00:43:25.767 --> 00:43:26.007 you know, 1075 00:43:26.307 --> 00:43:27.148 going to come out of that. 1076 00:43:27.248 --> 00:43:28.569 But I like everything. 1077 00:43:28.989 --> 00:43:30.930 I like to explore everything that I like. 1078 00:43:31.878 --> 00:43:33.239 I think that's mad. 1079 00:43:34.040 --> 00:43:36.901 Because a lot of footballers always try and stick to football. 1080 00:43:37.081 --> 00:43:38.310 And for me, 1081 00:43:38.690 --> 00:43:40.851 I'm probably a lot like you, 1082 00:43:41.011 --> 00:43:43.533 where I try different things to see what I enjoy, 1083 00:43:44.665 --> 00:43:44.905 you know, 1084 00:43:45.666 --> 00:43:51.209 and try and just learn more from the stuff that I get involved in as well. 1085 00:43:51.713 --> 00:43:52.353 It's nice to see. 1086 00:43:52.354 --> 00:43:54.574 You don't see many footballers trying that angle. 1087 00:43:54.634 --> 00:43:55.654 They're always just like, 1088 00:43:56.134 --> 00:43:57.135 it needs to be coaching. 1089 00:43:57.315 --> 00:43:58.255 Nothing else matters. 1090 00:43:58.395 --> 00:43:58.595 Right, 1091 00:43:58.675 --> 00:43:58.895 right, 1092 00:43:58.896 --> 00:43:59.915 right. 1093 00:43:59.916 --> 00:44:00.595 I'm leaving the room. 1094 00:44:04.597 --> 00:44:05.057 But it's true. 1095 00:44:05.357 --> 00:44:05.737 It's true. 1096 00:44:06.237 --> 00:44:06.657 You're just like, 1097 00:44:06.677 --> 00:44:06.797 man, 1098 00:44:06.837 --> 00:44:08.378 there's so many other ways to make money. 1099 00:44:08.698 --> 00:44:09.866 And like you say, 1100 00:44:09.966 --> 00:44:10.526 have freedom. 1101 00:44:10.666 --> 00:44:11.306 I enjoy, 1102 00:44:11.586 --> 00:44:12.487 I travel the world, 1103 00:44:12.587 --> 00:44:15.363 speaking at conferences and shit like that. 1104 00:44:15.403 --> 00:44:18.944 And I enjoy just travelling and not being pinned down to one place. 1105 00:44:18.964 --> 00:44:20.309 So I get it. 1106 00:44:20.589 --> 00:44:21.129 I get it. 1107 00:44:22.838 --> 00:44:28.027 I think it would be nice to have you around because you've got so many things to share. 1108 00:44:29.271 --> 00:44:31.793 And I see in your eyes you still have the passion for the football. 1109 00:44:32.234 --> 00:44:33.535 So maybe it's not the right time. 1110 00:44:34.516 --> 00:44:36.017 And I understand it completely. 1111 00:44:36.137 --> 00:44:36.257 But 1112 00:44:37.447 --> 00:44:38.688 I think you can play a big part. 1113 00:44:40.077 --> 00:44:40.858 That's my feeling. 1114 00:44:40.938 --> 00:44:45.513 Even just as an advisory thing, 1115 00:44:45.734 --> 00:44:47.075 even like you say, 1116 00:44:47.455 --> 00:44:49.397 you had those mistakes of maybe... 1117 00:44:49.537 --> 00:44:52.606 going to the wrong team with the wrong style of play with the wrong manager, 1118 00:44:53.379 --> 00:44:53.580 man 1119 00:44:54.041 --> 00:44:57.049 I think a lot of people don't really think about a lot of those things, 1120 00:44:57.089 --> 00:44:58.213 they just go and... 1121 00:44:59.594 --> 00:45:05.454 and it's not going to work out for them and it obviously can have that long lasting impact throughout your career so 1122 00:45:06.386 --> 00:45:22.598 I think yeah there's a lot of potential value there but it's whether you can be asked doing that or enjoy doing the music thing or whatever it may be but it's been a pleasure having you Ryan thank 1123 00:45:22.618 --> 00:45:24.499 you very much for coming on of course, 1124 00:45:24.539 --> 00:45:24.939 of course, 1125 00:45:25.140 --> 00:45:25.460 thank you 1126 00:45:26.921 --> 00:45:28.318 It was very nice to talk to you, 1127 00:45:28.319 --> 00:45:28.560 mate.