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Europe doesn't lack talent.

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 It doesn't lack scientists.

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 It doesn't lack biotech ambition.

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 What it lacks is structure.

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 Access pathways are fragmented.

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 Market entry authorizations are complex.

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 Reimbursements remain national and slow.

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 Pierre-Henri Belin offers a clear approach,

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 pooling our strengths,

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 making Europe attractive for research once again,

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 ensuring that innovation actually reaches patients,

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 because research without access is only a half-success.

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 If Europe wants to remain a scientific leader,

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 it must become a predictable market.

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 And this raises a deeper question for us.

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 Is the pharma business model still aligned with the expectations of public societies?

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When you look at the statistics,

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 and these aren't my statistics,

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 they're AQVIA statistics,

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 there are more than 100 drugs that have been launched in the US in the last five years that are not in Europe,

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 right?

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 And we see this number is very constantly growing.

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 If you want to build...

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 a commercial organization or commercial platform in Europe,

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 you cannot just translate what you've done in the US.

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 It's very different muscles.

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 You need different capabilities.

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 You need to think about different things and so on.

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 I think we've got 10,000 orphans and yeah,

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 most of them are not there.

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 And the large majority impacts kids,

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 right,

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 as well.

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 So it's really helping biopharma to make the last mile to their patients,

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 to the patients.

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 They've done,

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 many of them have done an incredible work.

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 The last piece is very important and very often is a bit neglected because it's not seen by this R&D organization.

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 It's not seen as a challenge.

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 What we try to do is to help them just evolve to the next step and really make sure that they don't miss what we call really the last mile.

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Welcome to Farmer Minds.

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 Today I'm with Pierre-Henri Belin and I just want to say that I'm very happy to be here with you,

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 Pierre-Henri.

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 It's a real pleasure to have you here and thank you so much for joining me today.

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Yeah,

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 thank you very much for inviting me.

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 Very happy as well.

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 Pleasure to be in this very famous podcast now.

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Yes.

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 And to share your story.

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Exactly.

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In a few words about what you've done,

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 you've worked your whole career at

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 Johnson & Johnson and you decided to become an entrepreneur.

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Made the jump in 2022,

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 very hands,

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 yes.

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 And with Xcube Bio.

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 And we are a platform that helps big pharma,

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 little pharma,

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 late stage biopharma to really get into Europe in the best possible way.

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 So we are a market entry accelerator.

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Okay,

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 so the reason I wanted you here today is because you told me and you mentioned before that since,

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 yes,

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 this month and over these past few years,

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 you have met with 100 different biotechs that are currently operating abroad,

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 specifically outside of Europe.

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 Through these meetings,

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 you discovered that maybe 100 different drugs were available outside.

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 Really interesting drugs for patients,

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 but not existing in Europe.

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When you look at the statistics,

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 and it's not my statistics,

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 it's IQVIA statistics,

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 there are more than 100 drugs.

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 that have been launched in the US in the last five years that are not in Europe,

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 right?

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 And we see this number is very constantly growing,

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 unfortunately.

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 And it means just,

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 it's as simple as that,

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 is that patients in Europe are not treated the same way as in the US and have not access to the same type of drugs,

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 right?

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 And here we're really talking about new molecular entities.

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 So not even,

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 you know,

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 biosimilars or generics or things like that,

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 or MeToo's,

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 yeah.

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What opened your eyes to this problem?

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 Because you were in a big pharma?

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Yeah.

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 The reflection we had was that an advisory was nice,

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 was useful,

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 but was not maybe enough.

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 And there was a need for more than that.

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 This was also in the context a couple of years ago,

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 or even more now,

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 maybe five years ago,

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 where you had these very high profile biotechs coming to Europe,

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 like Bluebird Bio,

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 like AGIOS,

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 others,

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 and just running into problems along the way,

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 you know,

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 and sometimes it can be a bit frustrating.

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 And those biotechs were first.

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 Great assets,

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 great teams,

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 very well advised.

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 And so there was really something about the execution,

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 right,

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 that needed to be sorted.

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 And typically Bluebird Bio,

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 for example,

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 or AGIOS,

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 and I mean great companies.

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 I mean,

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 we met with the executive.

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 They are absolutely great.

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 So this is not a competency.

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 This is about making it work and having the right sequence of execution,

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 having the right angle,

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 strategic angles.

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 understanding in a deep way the stakeholders,

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 how payers would work,

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 for example,

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 how a hospital or a KOL would work in a different way than in the US,

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 right?

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 And so this is all these things that need to be there.

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Okay.

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 Okay.

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 And how did you start?

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And so we decided and we tested the idea of creating what is called in financial jargon,

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 an SPV,

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 a special purpose vehicle,

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 or a NEWCO.

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 So creating basically a company in Europe that would be a shell in which we would...

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 create and execute the launch and the entry of the partner.

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 So we would offer

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 Biopharma the opportunity to create with us a small company,

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 a different company,

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 an empty shell called Nuco.

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 That would be the nucleus of the entity that you need to deploy across Europe.

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 And we would use this entity as an execution vehicle and we would service and we would,

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 I mean,

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 provide expertise to this entity to grow it step by step.

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 according to a very clean,

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 very sequenced execution plan.

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 We are not doing a licensing because we are just building organization and we are building on behalf of an organization according to a plan that we believe is efficient and is mitigating the risk of getting to Europe.

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 So this is really appreciated.

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 We see a lot of CEOs in particular who are at the beginning of their business,

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 you know,

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 and they have got it.

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 It is really hard for them sometimes to give away to

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 a licensing organization,

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 something that they spent years and years to develop,

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 right?

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Yes.

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And so here they stay in control.

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 We are a temporary partnership,

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 so we are vanishing at some point once we have done the job.

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 But we have got skin in the game with them also because we are investing in Europe for them.

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Yes.

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 Okay.

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 And how is it going today?

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 Have you already?

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So we've got it.

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 Yeah,

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 we've got it.

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 We progressed a lot of companies.

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 We are closing one,

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 our first one,

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 very soon that I can...

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 I cannot just give all the things.

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It gets closed?

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Yeah,

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 out.

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 And we've got three or four that are really on the short term.

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 And it's very exciting because they are very exciting assets in a sense that it's very innovative.

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 We see,

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 I mean,

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 for patients,

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 it's going to be great and so on.

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 So really,

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 really,

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 really good,

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 really good thing.

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Okay.

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 What I like,

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 yes?

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Maybe just the most,

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 I mean,

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 just to tell you,

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 the model,

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 I think,

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 is interesting in the sense that it's also...

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 I would say filtering out,

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 it's maybe a bit strong,

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 but incentivizing the type of company with R&D with a second asset or second indication.

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 They like particularly our model because they know they're going to have their own structure for the second asset and so on.

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 And you've got this kind of company with a platform with a lot of science.

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 It's not necessarily the one shot you can find or say that you've got one asset they want to monetize quick and quick.

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 I mean,

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 this can be also great.

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 I mean,

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 this can be also great assets sometimes,

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 but here we've got this kind of very passionate people.

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 And yes,

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 and that's adding the motivation to work along them and,

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 yeah,

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 get their science to the final goal,

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 right?

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 To the patients ultimately,

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 yeah.

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Yes,

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 and

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 I was wondering,

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 is it useful or can it be useful also for European biotechs who want to address the European markets?

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 And which start with,

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 we start with the science.

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That's interesting.

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 Yeah,

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 I think our initial assumptions was that's going to be a U.S.

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 play.

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 Yeah,

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 because this is where you've got,

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 of course,

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 a lot of innovation.

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 Well,

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 needless to say,

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 but also you've got a lot of this gap that exists in terms of the cultural gap on the way things should happen.

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 But we realize also that,

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 yeah,

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 European biopharma,

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 we're also potentially interested by this model and actually not just them.

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 And,

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 well,

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 we may talk about this later on.

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 We see more and more innovation and particularly Chinese companies with great potential and that are also interested in this model.

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You said we are in a moment where innovation is rising a lot,

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 exploding,

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 and we are in a certain world.

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 And we didn't talk about this,

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 but also budget to pay for drugs,

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 for innovative drugs in Europe are limited.

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Yep,

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 sure.

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And

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 And then it's,

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 yes,

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 actually the first step in the cold water for you is really,

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 yes,

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 to decide to do something new,

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 to propose something.

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 And I like the idea because,

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 you know,

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 what exists and you have to create.

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 Someone has to create.

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 And yes,

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 just try.

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 And what is maybe the perception of the payers?

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 What could they gain from this?

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 What is the value for them too?

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 Because it's also an end point.

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Yeah,

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 of course.

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 Well,

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 I mean,

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 I think that the payers are not.

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 You know,

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 they are not evil,

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 right?

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 They want value.

276
00:09:19.206 --> 00:09:25.050
 And so they want to make sure that what you bring to the market is going to be a real value for the health care system overall,

277
00:09:25.090 --> 00:09:25.730
 for the patient,

278
00:09:25.750 --> 00:09:26.211
 of course,

279
00:09:26.571 --> 00:09:28.612
 but also in general for the health care system.

280
00:09:29.053 --> 00:09:36.978
 So if you bring an innovation that is a real innovation where you've got the right endpoints and you've got the right demonstration,

281
00:09:37.458 --> 00:09:41.481
 what we see is that payers are inclined to pay for the right things,

282
00:09:41.941 --> 00:09:42.182
 right?

283
00:09:42.842 --> 00:09:43.863
 And of course there are

284
00:09:44.287 --> 00:09:45.588
 budget constraints and so on,

285
00:09:45.608 --> 00:09:46.508
 but you can get there.

286
00:09:48.009 --> 00:09:58.835
 What we also propose on the other side is really to be as lean as possible to make sure that we are not throwing money away that would not be driving more value to patients.

287
00:09:59.615 --> 00:10:01.936
 And so our model is also very much driven towards this.

288
00:10:03.337 --> 00:10:04.816
 But we fundamentally believe that,

289
00:10:04.896 --> 00:10:05.197
 again,

290
00:10:06.178 --> 00:10:07.277
 if there are good assets,

291
00:10:07.357 --> 00:10:08.558
 there is a willingness to pay.

292
00:10:10.918 --> 00:10:13.179
 And when you look at a difficult conversation with payers,

293
00:10:13.539 --> 00:10:22.521
 it's often because the added value to the existing standard of care is not great or that the data that have been generated to demonstrate it is not a fit.

294
00:10:22.962 --> 00:10:23.181
 Right.

295
00:10:25.322 --> 00:10:27.223
 And that's what we try to avoid in our process.

296
00:10:27.983 --> 00:10:28.643
To anticipate.

297
00:10:28.683 --> 00:10:28.823
 Yeah.

298
00:10:29.188 --> 00:10:29.308
Yeah,

299
00:10:29.367 --> 00:10:30.107
 to anticipate.

300
00:10:30.508 --> 00:10:32.308
 And we like to talk to companies that are,

301
00:10:32.769 --> 00:10:35.510
 to start talking to companies that are phase two so that we can,

302
00:10:36.309 --> 00:10:38.471
 we don't do new co at this stage or whatever.

303
00:10:38.930 --> 00:10:39.611
 It's very light,

304
00:10:40.111 --> 00:10:49.634
 but we can definitely help them just by reflecting thoughtfully on the last phase of their clinical developments to make sure that they are truly ready and nothing important is missed.

305
00:10:51.754 --> 00:10:52.313
 They deliver,

306
00:10:52.394 --> 00:10:56.894
 they produce the right data set that makes the conversation with EMEA in one sense,

307
00:10:56.955 --> 00:10:57.936
 but also with pairs,

308
00:10:58.055 --> 00:10:58.615
 a better one.

309
00:10:59.295 --> 00:10:59.535
 And so,

310
00:10:59.895 --> 00:11:00.015
 yeah.

311
00:11:00.476 --> 00:11:00.896
So you can,

312
00:11:01.016 --> 00:11:01.176
 yes,

313
00:11:01.236 --> 00:11:02.756
 nearly assure them they will go somewhere.

314
00:11:03.136 --> 00:11:04.217
Yeah,

315
00:11:04.777 --> 00:11:05.857
 And I put them in,

316
00:11:06.217 --> 00:11:06.438
 I mean,

317
00:11:06.497 --> 00:11:07.678
 there are some misconceptions.

318
00:11:07.698 --> 00:11:07.899
 I mean,

319
00:11:07.958 --> 00:11:11.939
 the dynamics of pricing in the United States and Europe is so different.

320
00:11:12.939 --> 00:11:15.700
 And we cannot blame the biotechs for looking first at the U.S.

321
00:11:16.420 --> 00:11:18.822
 market because this is what makes their investments,

322
00:11:19.221 --> 00:11:19.481
 you know,

323
00:11:19.621 --> 00:11:20.021
 viable.

324
00:11:20.562 --> 00:11:21.041
 Unfortunately,

325
00:11:21.062 --> 00:11:24.743
 the United States is really so important now in terms of financials.

326
00:11:25.183 --> 00:11:26.183
 So they have to do that.

327
00:11:28.583 --> 00:11:29.885
 But Europe is important as well.

328
00:11:30.144 --> 00:11:30.365
 I mean,

329
00:11:30.365 --> 00:11:32.407
 it can still be a sizable amount of their business.

330
00:11:32.866 --> 00:11:33.868
 There are a lot of patients.

331
00:11:34.087 --> 00:11:36.009
 There are more patients than in the United States.

332
00:11:36.470 --> 00:11:38.030
 So this is a go-to-market strategy.

333
00:11:38.471 --> 00:11:38.691
Yes,

334
00:11:38.731 --> 00:11:39.692
 but I think it's also,

335
00:11:39.812 --> 00:11:41.232
 we didn't talk about these sectors,

336
00:11:41.572 --> 00:11:44.495
 but also for big pharma to understand how a launch can be done.

337
00:11:44.836 --> 00:11:44.976
Yeah.

338
00:11:46.177 --> 00:11:46.376
Maybe,

339
00:11:46.637 --> 00:11:46.897
 you know,

340
00:11:47.057 --> 00:11:53.302
 in a kind of like leaner way and achieve profitability with different expenses.

341
00:11:53.662 --> 00:11:53.802
Yeah,

342
00:11:53.981 --> 00:11:54.503
 absolutely.

343
00:11:54.842 --> 00:11:55.063
 I mean,

344
00:11:55.123 --> 00:11:56.043
 I've been in large pharma.

345
00:11:56.563 --> 00:12:02.587
 And we sometimes turn down assets that could have been interesting to license or acquire because they were just too small.

346
00:12:03.347 --> 00:12:04.667
 Because the cost of the platform,

347
00:12:04.708 --> 00:12:07.309
 the operating elements of big pharma is already there.

348
00:12:07.689 --> 00:12:12.452
 And you just can't make it work for a small patient population most of the time,

349
00:12:12.492 --> 00:12:12.712
 right?

350
00:12:14.113 --> 00:12:14.713
 And we see that,

351
00:12:15.113 --> 00:12:15.614
 for example,

352
00:12:15.674 --> 00:12:21.577
 big pharma companies now tend to step away from the orphan disease area because it's so difficult to operate in.

353
00:12:21.938 --> 00:12:25.260
 And they go into GLP and all the things that are fashionable at the moment.

354
00:12:26.672 --> 00:12:30.955
 But there is,

355
00:12:31.034 --> 00:12:31.294
 I mean,

356
00:12:31.355 --> 00:12:33.297
 there's a lot of innovation in smaller spaces,

357
00:12:33.376 --> 00:12:33.577
 right?

358
00:12:35.097 --> 00:12:35.558
 In those,

359
00:12:35.938 --> 00:12:37.139
 I was looking at a statistic,

360
00:12:37.178 --> 00:12:37.519
 I think.

361
00:12:39.101 --> 00:12:41.702
 There are more than 9,000 diseases with no treatments.

362
00:12:42.743 --> 00:12:43.143
 And so

363
00:12:44.244 --> 00:12:47.285
 10,000, I think we have 10,000 orphan diseases.

364
00:12:48.087 --> 00:12:48.407
 And yeah,

365
00:12:48.486 --> 00:12:49.567
 most of them have no treatment.

366
00:12:50.308 --> 00:12:52.029
 And the large majority impacts kids as well,

367
00:12:52.230 --> 00:12:52.429
 right?

368
00:12:52.710 --> 00:12:55.512
So they talk about a tsunami of innovation.

369
00:12:55.907 --> 00:12:56.147
And so,

370
00:12:56.327 --> 00:12:56.567
 yes,

371
00:12:56.968 --> 00:12:57.328
 it's really,

372
00:12:57.608 --> 00:12:57.728
 yeah.

373
00:12:57.828 --> 00:12:59.009
 And so how do you get there?

374
00:12:59.329 --> 00:13:02.351
 I think the biopharma platforms are fantastic for deploying,

375
00:13:05.013 --> 00:13:05.273
 you know,

376
00:13:05.313 --> 00:13:05.973
 large-scale,

377
00:13:06.373 --> 00:13:07.394
 large-scale innovation.

378
00:13:08.315 --> 00:13:08.555
 I mean,

379
00:13:08.615 --> 00:13:11.757
 the COVID vaccines or immunologics and things like this.

380
00:13:12.297 --> 00:13:13.218
 But for smaller things,

381
00:13:13.219 --> 00:13:14.558
 you probably need something different.

382
00:13:15.339 --> 00:13:16.780
 And this is what we're trying to crack here.

383
00:13:18.040 --> 00:13:18.261
Okay.

384
00:13:18.681 --> 00:13:20.222
For very specific precision medicine,

385
00:13:20.282 --> 00:13:22.123
 you probably need another way to look at things.

386
00:13:23.179 --> 00:13:24.360
 One that is more flexible,

387
00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:28.481
 that is more purpose-built and,

388
00:13:28.922 --> 00:13:29.082
 yeah,

389
00:13:29.582 --> 00:13:33.702
 leaves options open to make sure you can adapt to the market conditions.

390
00:13:34.122 --> 00:13:34.343
Yes,

391
00:13:34.423 --> 00:13:34.723
 indeed.

392
00:13:34.803 --> 00:13:35.624
 It's very complex,

393
00:13:35.744 --> 00:13:37.223
 but that's what makes this interesting.

394
00:13:38.164 --> 00:13:41.905
 And can you maybe in one sentence explain your mission so we can really understand what…

395
00:13:42.305 --> 00:13:42.466
Well,

396
00:13:43.186 --> 00:13:45.427
 bringing innovations to patients and really doing…

397
00:13:46.626 --> 00:13:47.707
Targeted innovation,

398
00:13:47.768 --> 00:13:48.048
 yeah.

399
00:13:48.148 --> 00:13:48.408
And so…

400
00:13:49.147 --> 00:13:52.728
 It's really helping biopharma go that last mile to their patients.

401
00:13:53.208 --> 00:13:53.828
 They've done a,

402
00:13:54.669 --> 00:13:56.269
 many of them have done incredible work,

403
00:13:56.329 --> 00:13:56.529
 just,

404
00:13:56.809 --> 00:13:57.049
 you know,

405
00:13:57.149 --> 00:13:59.510
 deploying from phase one to phase three,

406
00:13:59.611 --> 00:14:01.490
 or even preclinical to phase three.

407
00:14:02.651 --> 00:14:05.332
 And so the last piece is very important,

408
00:14:05.371 --> 00:14:08.952
 and it's often a bit neglected because it's not seen by the R&D organization,

409
00:14:09.453 --> 00:14:10.753
 or it's not seen as a challenge,

410
00:14:10.894 --> 00:14:11.113
 right?

411
00:14:13.274 --> 00:14:13.394
 I,

412
00:14:13.954 --> 00:14:14.094
 well,

413
00:14:14.274 --> 00:14:15.074
 you've probably heard this,

414
00:14:15.135 --> 00:14:16.675
 but you hear a lot of CEOs saying,

415
00:14:16.736 --> 00:14:16.976
 you know,

416
00:14:16.976 --> 00:14:18.015
 my product is so good.

417
00:14:19.267 --> 00:14:20.327
 I don't need a commercial team.

418
00:14:20.727 --> 00:14:20.928
Yes,

419
00:14:21.968 --> 00:14:22.308
 science.

420
00:14:23.508 --> 00:14:25.569
It's going to be sold like hotcakes,

421
00:14:25.609 --> 00:14:25.809
 right?

422
00:14:26.749 --> 00:14:27.549
 Which never happens,

423
00:14:27.550 --> 00:14:27.969
 of course,

424
00:14:28.010 --> 00:14:29.611
 because it's a bit more complex than that.

425
00:14:30.290 --> 00:14:30.550
 But OK,

426
00:14:30.650 --> 00:14:32.191
 you can't blame them for being there,

427
00:14:32.391 --> 00:14:32.651
 right?

428
00:14:33.731 --> 00:14:39.633
 What we try to do is help them just evolve to the next step and really make sure they don't miss what we call the last mile.

429
00:14:40.034 --> 00:14:41.173
 So the little piece of work,

430
00:14:41.534 --> 00:14:41.753
 I mean,

431
00:14:41.793 --> 00:14:42.513
 it's not so little,

432
00:14:42.573 --> 00:14:42.874
 actually,

433
00:14:42.914 --> 00:14:47.755
 but the little piece of work that needs to be done from the end of your data set or the generation of data.

434
00:14:48.135 --> 00:14:51.362
 to the real patients having real access and being treated in real conditions.

435
00:14:51.969 --> 00:14:52.149
Yes.

436
00:14:52.189 --> 00:14:53.550
 And then it means you do maybe,

437
00:14:54.171 --> 00:14:55.792
 I don't know if it's a few years,

438
00:14:55.832 --> 00:14:56.552
 five years with you,

439
00:14:56.632 --> 00:15:01.256
 partnerships means they would have two years of commercialization with you and you do the good.

440
00:15:01.556 --> 00:15:01.916
As well.

441
00:15:02.396 --> 00:15:02.657
 We go,

442
00:15:02.757 --> 00:15:03.017
 I mean,

443
00:15:03.097 --> 00:15:04.298
 typically we go four to six,

444
00:15:04.438 --> 00:15:04.578
 yeah.

445
00:15:04.698 --> 00:15:05.499
 An average of five,

446
00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:05.879
 you're right.

447
00:15:08.521 --> 00:15:15.946
 And that leaves us time to of course go through this regulatory process and payer and also deploy across the continent.

448
00:15:16.346 --> 00:15:16.987
 Because I mean,

449
00:15:17.327 --> 00:15:20.229
 the other thing about Europe is that it's so fragmented that

450
00:15:20.409 --> 00:15:21.970
 you cannot just do one launch.

451
00:15:22.390 --> 00:15:25.853
 And this is another concept that is quite difficult from a United States standpoint.

452
00:15:26.293 --> 00:15:27.314
 It's not one launch.

453
00:15:27.574 --> 00:15:31.097
 It's just like 27 or more launches that are happening over two or three years.

454
00:15:31.957 --> 00:15:32.297
 And so,

455
00:15:33.078 --> 00:15:33.198
 yeah,

456
00:15:33.238 --> 00:15:34.959
 we have time to do that once we are there.

457
00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:37.521
 It's time for us to exit.

458
00:15:38.101 --> 00:15:38.262
Yes,

459
00:15:38.322 --> 00:15:41.004
 this is exactly what they are planning to do at this point in time.

460
00:15:41.984 --> 00:15:42.184
 Okay.

461
00:15:43.725 --> 00:15:43.946
 Yes.

462
00:15:44.066 --> 00:15:48.689
 And how is it generally perceived or understood from the financials in the United States as well?

463
00:15:48.993 --> 00:15:49.173
Yeah,

464
00:15:49.213 --> 00:15:49.453
 I mean,

465
00:15:49.454 --> 00:15:50.434
 it was very interesting.

466
00:15:52.035 --> 00:15:57.820
 I think the fact that the United States market is now a little bit more uncertain,

467
00:15:57.880 --> 00:15:58.080
 right?

468
00:15:58.520 --> 00:15:58.880
 Totally.

469
00:15:59.701 --> 00:16:00.021
 Of course,

470
00:16:00.041 --> 00:16:01.602
 it's still the top priority overall.

471
00:16:04.765 --> 00:16:08.167
 We see more and more investment vehicles or funds,

472
00:16:08.628 --> 00:16:09.168
 things like this,

473
00:16:09.588 --> 00:16:10.929
 interested in looking outside,

474
00:16:11.450 --> 00:16:15.733
 probably just to diversify and make sure they're not just relying on the United States.

475
00:16:17.581 --> 00:16:21.323
 We had this experience of talking to funds where the partners were telling us,

476
00:16:21.683 --> 00:16:21.923
 you know,

477
00:16:21.963 --> 00:16:24.264
 it's the first time I see how business works in Europe.

478
00:16:24.384 --> 00:16:24.604
 Right.

479
00:16:25.084 --> 00:16:27.405
 So we never really bet on this.

480
00:16:27.765 --> 00:16:33.488
 So it means that the investment they've done in some of the biotechs were just against the United States potential.

481
00:16:34.528 --> 00:16:36.329
 So it's initially they were not interested,

482
00:16:36.349 --> 00:16:37.689
 but they're starting to be interested.

483
00:16:38.030 --> 00:16:38.150
OK,

484
00:16:38.350 --> 00:16:39.790
 starting to just open their eyes.

485
00:16:40.591 --> 00:16:42.111
And because also they realize I mean,

486
00:16:42.171 --> 00:16:45.993
 they realize that some funds have dozens of those biotechs that are now reaching.

487
00:16:46.429 --> 00:16:46.689
 you know,

488
00:16:46.929 --> 00:16:47.489
 phase three.

489
00:16:49.190 --> 00:16:49.810
 And the question is,

490
00:16:49.870 --> 00:16:50.371
 what do we do?

491
00:16:51.291 --> 00:16:53.432
 And so they can't necessarily find a license.

492
00:16:53.452 --> 00:16:54.812
 They don't want to do a license.

493
00:16:54.832 --> 00:16:56.633
 They want to go on their own and so on.

494
00:16:57.454 --> 00:17:02.296
 And so there is this question that is coming and they see that there are more and more of these companies.

495
00:17:03.036 --> 00:17:06.417
 And this is a step that is important because it's a step of monetization,

496
00:17:06.517 --> 00:17:06.737
 right?

497
00:17:07.118 --> 00:17:09.959
 So it's a step where the investments start to return,

498
00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:10.259
 right?

499
00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:13.200
 And so they are very interested in our model.

500
00:17:13.620 --> 00:17:15.181
 We've got a lot of traction on this.

501
00:17:15.877 --> 00:17:19.939
 which is nice because it helps us just really plan for some fundings and so on.

502
00:17:22.421 --> 00:17:25.783
 The difficulty that we often have is always to showcase a brand new model,

503
00:17:26.083 --> 00:17:26.303
 right?

504
00:17:26.583 --> 00:17:26.843
 And so,

505
00:17:27.323 --> 00:17:28.144
 as you can imagine,

506
00:17:28.684 --> 00:17:34.988
 it actually took us a little bit of time to really get everything ready and to get people acquainted with that so they see the benefits and so on.

507
00:17:35.328 --> 00:17:35.488
Yes,

508
00:17:35.508 --> 00:17:36.248
 to trust it also,

509
00:17:36.388 --> 00:17:36.508
 yeah.

510
00:17:36.769 --> 00:17:38.089
But we've got a truly fantastic,

511
00:17:38.149 --> 00:17:40.431
 absolutely fantastic connection now,

512
00:17:40.511 --> 00:17:40.751
 you know,

513
00:17:40.811 --> 00:17:41.972
 with this whole investment world.

514
00:17:42.012 --> 00:17:44.333
 They really see the value in what we're doing.

515
00:17:44.733 --> 00:17:46.954
 And they also recognize the need for that kind of thing.

516
00:17:47.674 --> 00:17:48.574
 It's a big step forward,

517
00:17:48.614 --> 00:17:48.974
 honestly.

518
00:17:49.294 --> 00:17:51.655
 And it's something we've been working toward for a long time.

519
00:17:52.315 --> 00:17:52.955
 When you look at,

520
00:17:54.176 --> 00:17:54.616
 as we said,

521
00:17:54.656 --> 00:17:56.276
 something like 2,000 assets,

522
00:17:56.336 --> 00:18:00.458
 when you look at the number of operators able to bring innovation in Europe as a whole,

523
00:18:00.938 --> 00:18:02.958
 not just counting some very sub-regional ones,

524
00:18:02.998 --> 00:18:03.759
 there are less than

525
00:18:04.219 --> 00:18:06.079
 100, probably 80.

526
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:08.400
 So you've got 2,000 assets,

527
00:18:08.520 --> 00:18:09.060
 80 players.

528
00:18:09.120 --> 00:18:09.960
 There is something wrong,

529
00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:10.320
 right?

530
00:18:10.781 --> 00:18:11.881
 You need to have more options.

531
00:18:12.293 --> 00:18:15.134
 And I think most of the funds understood that and the investors understood that.

532
00:18:15.174 --> 00:18:15.294
 So,

533
00:18:15.374 --> 00:18:15.514
 yeah.

534
00:18:17.415 --> 00:18:17.635
Yes.

535
00:18:17.715 --> 00:18:20.757
 And it's also a way to present Europe as an open market with solutions.

536
00:18:21.037 --> 00:18:21.177
Yeah,

537
00:18:21.417 --> 00:18:21.777
 exactly.

538
00:18:22.097 --> 00:18:22.717
 And it's exactly.

539
00:18:23.038 --> 00:18:23.638
Instead of like.

540
00:18:23.938 --> 00:18:24.358
Problems.

541
00:18:24.678 --> 00:18:24.938
Instead,

542
00:18:24.978 --> 00:18:25.158
 yes.

543
00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:26.719
Yeah.

544
00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:27.099
 I mean,

545
00:18:27.199 --> 00:18:27.539
 honestly,

546
00:18:27.580 --> 00:18:30.041
 the reputation of Europe as a pharmaceutical market,

547
00:18:30.541 --> 00:18:30.781
 you know,

548
00:18:31.581 --> 00:18:32.582
 is really not that great,

549
00:18:32.702 --> 00:18:33.582
 to be perfectly honest.

550
00:18:33.982 --> 00:18:34.582
 And sometimes,

551
00:18:34.622 --> 00:18:34.983
 honestly,

552
00:18:35.023 --> 00:18:35.903
 for the wrong reason,

553
00:18:37.304 --> 00:18:39.685
 because there are things that are done in the right way as well.

554
00:18:40.801 --> 00:18:40.921
 Yeah,

555
00:18:41.001 --> 00:18:42.582
 it's just a different market.

556
00:18:42.583 --> 00:18:43.742
 And this is what we try to explain.

557
00:18:43.762 --> 00:18:46.243
 It's not worse or better.

558
00:18:46.263 --> 00:18:46.803
 It's different.

559
00:18:47.084 --> 00:18:48.104
I think it's more complex.

560
00:18:48.524 --> 00:18:48.664
Yeah.

561
00:18:49.044 --> 00:18:52.466
Then you probably just need a little more time to really come to terms with it.

562
00:18:52.766 --> 00:18:54.106
I would almost disagree with that.

563
00:18:54.447 --> 00:18:55.527
 I think I would agree in a way,

564
00:18:55.547 --> 00:18:56.627
 but I would almost disagree.

565
00:18:56.948 --> 00:18:58.408
 I think the entry is more complex.

566
00:19:00.029 --> 00:19:01.289
 And so getting in there,

567
00:19:01.809 --> 00:19:02.590
 the market entry,

568
00:19:02.690 --> 00:19:03.510
 getting into the country,

569
00:19:03.590 --> 00:19:04.651
 into Europe is complex.

570
00:19:05.411 --> 00:19:07.052
 And it's much more complex than the US,

571
00:19:07.452 --> 00:19:08.772
 where you've got a very free market.

572
00:19:09.172 --> 00:19:10.233
 So the access is very good.

573
00:19:10.513 --> 00:19:10.913
But you have,

574
00:19:10.973 --> 00:19:11.193
 yes,

575
00:19:11.554 --> 00:19:12.314
 one payer after that,

576
00:19:12.354 --> 00:19:12.494
 yeah.

577
00:19:12.694 --> 00:19:14.075
But then once you convince the payer,

578
00:19:14.155 --> 00:19:17.618
 you've also got what is called universal coverage in most countries.

579
00:19:17.978 --> 00:19:19.399
 So you don't have any questions asked.

580
00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:20.780
 If there is a prescription,

581
00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:21.761
 there is a fulfillment.

582
00:19:22.081 --> 00:19:22.301
Yes.

583
00:19:23.362 --> 00:19:23.882
In the US,

584
00:19:23.883 --> 00:19:24.302
 of course,

585
00:19:24.322 --> 00:19:27.825
 you can launch and pretend you launch very easily because it's a free market.

586
00:19:28.205 --> 00:19:29.086
 You set your price,

587
00:19:29.087 --> 00:19:29.346
 you go,

588
00:19:29.826 --> 00:19:30.066
 right?

589
00:19:30.466 --> 00:19:30.927
 And it's there.

590
00:19:31.547 --> 00:19:34.069
 But you've got so many things to do along the way.

591
00:19:34.169 --> 00:19:37.111
 Sometimes almost just to convince patient by patient,

592
00:19:37.311 --> 00:19:37.531
 right?

593
00:19:38.252 --> 00:19:38.912
 Payer by payer,

594
00:19:39.112 --> 00:19:39.332
 right?

595
00:19:39.733 --> 00:19:39.853
 So.

596
00:19:40.373 --> 00:19:43.759
 There is a lot of complexity that is coming progressively in the US.

597
00:19:44.280 --> 00:19:44.460
Okay,

598
00:19:44.500 --> 00:19:44.981
 it's different.

599
00:19:45.782 --> 00:19:45.903
Yeah,

600
00:19:45.983 --> 00:19:46.664
 and it's what I said.

601
00:19:46.684 --> 00:19:46.884
 I mean,

602
00:19:46.924 --> 00:19:47.806
 it's different muscles.

603
00:19:48.227 --> 00:19:49.248
 And this is where I think...

604
00:19:50.366 --> 00:19:51.267
 We believe the issue is,

605
00:19:51.327 --> 00:19:51.507
 right?

606
00:19:51.547 --> 00:19:52.548
 Capabilities are different.

607
00:19:52.608 --> 00:19:52.728
 Yeah.

608
00:19:54.049 --> 00:19:54.269
Okay.

609
00:19:54.329 --> 00:19:54.869
 So again,

610
00:19:55.450 --> 00:19:55.670
 yes,

611
00:19:55.870 --> 00:19:57.011
 Europe is generally seen,

612
00:19:57.251 --> 00:19:57.511
 you know,

613
00:19:57.691 --> 00:19:59.593
 as a much more regulated part of the world,

614
00:19:59.673 --> 00:20:00.013
 actually.

615
00:20:01.774 --> 00:20:02.034
It is.

616
00:20:02.375 --> 00:20:02.495
 Yeah.

617
00:20:02.795 --> 00:20:03.235
 Fragmented.

618
00:20:03.576 --> 00:20:03.796
Yes.

619
00:20:03.896 --> 00:20:05.917
 Fragmented and maybe the cultural aspect too,

620
00:20:06.017 --> 00:20:06.818
 but in the US?

621
00:20:07.378 --> 00:20:07.498
Yeah.

622
00:20:07.779 --> 00:20:08.119
 Culture.

623
00:20:08.219 --> 00:20:08.379
 Yes.

624
00:20:08.719 --> 00:20:09.200
Commercial.

625
00:20:09.580 --> 00:20:09.720
Yeah.

626
00:20:10.361 --> 00:20:10.561
Okay.

627
00:20:10.621 --> 00:20:11.521
 What if a launch fails?

628
00:20:12.622 --> 00:20:13.102
 Who pays?

629
00:20:14.043 --> 00:20:14.403
So we do.

630
00:20:14.443 --> 00:20:15.164
 We take the risks,

631
00:20:15.204 --> 00:20:15.404
 right?

632
00:20:16.165 --> 00:20:16.285
 Yeah.

633
00:20:16.405 --> 00:20:16.585
 Well,

634
00:20:16.605 --> 00:20:17.045
 financially,

635
00:20:17.046 --> 00:20:17.706
 we take the risk.

636
00:20:21.294 --> 00:20:38.093
 of complete failure right that exists the worst case this is the worst case i'm not saying it's never going to happen we've got a lot of control on that and we again the way to do that is really to sequence your investments and

637
00:20:38.094 --> 00:20:41.577
 this is what we what we do so that if you lose you don't lose too big,

638
00:20:41.677 --> 00:20:41.878
 right?

639
00:20:44.654 --> 00:20:45.555
It means you can stop,

640
00:20:45.695 --> 00:20:47.016
 you can change your mind in the middle.

641
00:20:47.676 --> 00:20:48.056
We can,

642
00:20:48.496 --> 00:20:48.997
 we've got some,

643
00:20:49.037 --> 00:20:49.277
 I mean,

644
00:20:49.837 --> 00:20:51.718
 in cooperation with our biopharma partner,

645
00:20:51.859 --> 00:20:52.179
 of course,

646
00:20:52.219 --> 00:20:53.259
 there are ways to step out,

647
00:20:53.320 --> 00:20:53.500
 right,

648
00:20:53.520 --> 00:20:54.040
 if we need to.

649
00:20:55.601 --> 00:20:59.463
 But we fund this launch,

650
00:20:59.563 --> 00:20:59.744
 right,

651
00:20:59.745 --> 00:21:01.345
 the market entry and the deployment.

652
00:21:01.745 --> 00:21:03.066
 So this is our financial risk,

653
00:21:03.166 --> 00:21:03.366
 right,

654
00:21:03.526 --> 00:21:03.866
 overall.

655
00:21:04.467 --> 00:21:04.727
 I mean,

656
00:21:04.807 --> 00:21:05.047
 again,

657
00:21:05.307 --> 00:21:07.629
 we try to control that by sequencing our investments,

658
00:21:08.009 --> 00:21:08.409
 by being,

659
00:21:08.649 --> 00:21:08.869
 again,

660
00:21:08.949 --> 00:21:09.129
 lean,

661
00:21:09.390 --> 00:21:09.650
 flex.

662
00:21:12.202 --> 00:21:12.362
Yes,

663
00:21:12.402 --> 00:21:15.043
 and you will learn on the way and reduce your failure rate.

664
00:21:15.283 --> 00:21:15.683
Exactly,

665
00:21:15.783 --> 00:21:16.163
 exactly.

666
00:21:17.283 --> 00:21:17.784
 But they are,

667
00:21:17.844 --> 00:21:18.084
 I mean,

668
00:21:18.124 --> 00:21:20.684
 the biotechs which went alone and succeeded,

669
00:21:21.084 --> 00:21:21.885
 they are in Europe,

670
00:21:22.605 --> 00:21:22.825
 right?

671
00:21:22.905 --> 00:21:24.185
 There are some of them flourished,

672
00:21:24.445 --> 00:21:24.665
 right?

673
00:21:26.706 --> 00:21:27.386
 And they did great.

674
00:21:28.587 --> 00:21:30.867
 They had all this kind of discipline of sequencing,

675
00:21:30.907 --> 00:21:32.288
 of getting step by step and,

676
00:21:32.728 --> 00:21:32.968
 you know,

677
00:21:33.028 --> 00:21:39.570
 moving from one success to the other and learning from the failures and adjusting afterwards and so on.

678
00:21:40.010 --> 00:21:41.110
 And this is really the way to go.

679
00:21:42.158 --> 00:21:42.538
 And again,

680
00:21:42.819 --> 00:21:46.801
 very different from a US launch where the point is really to go strong,

681
00:21:47.161 --> 00:21:48.723
 full in a first step,

682
00:21:48.883 --> 00:21:49.123
 right?

683
00:21:49.663 --> 00:21:50.664
 So that's what we try to do.

684
00:21:52.025 --> 00:21:52.325
Yes,

685
00:21:52.505 --> 00:21:53.006
 and okay.

686
00:21:53.086 --> 00:21:53.346
 I mean,

687
00:21:53.386 --> 00:21:53.566
 yes,

688
00:21:53.626 --> 00:21:54.386
 I really try to,

689
00:21:54.547 --> 00:21:55.787
 I start to imagine yourself,

690
00:21:55.907 --> 00:21:56.168
 you know,

691
00:21:56.169 --> 00:21:57.569
 as a group with different companies.

692
00:21:58.109 --> 00:22:01.751
 And then it means you don't have,

693
00:22:01.832 --> 00:22:02.092
 yes,

694
00:22:02.332 --> 00:22:04.714
 limitations for competitive risk or anything.

695
00:22:05.094 --> 00:22:07.355
 Because each one is in silos and each one can operate.

696
00:22:07.736 --> 00:22:08.436
 Because it's like,

697
00:22:08.796 --> 00:22:10.998
 I think something really special about this industry.

698
00:22:11.806 --> 00:22:13.487
 is it means different companies,

699
00:22:13.567 --> 00:22:15.648
 different business can be into the same house.

700
00:22:16.568 --> 00:22:16.688
Yeah,

701
00:22:16.768 --> 00:22:17.208
 that's true.

702
00:22:17.829 --> 00:22:18.069
 I mean,

703
00:22:18.409 --> 00:22:19.369
 what Xscape Bio is,

704
00:22:19.449 --> 00:22:20.610
 is primarily a platform.

705
00:22:21.210 --> 00:22:22.971
 So a platform that is creating companies.

706
00:22:23.591 --> 00:22:24.171
 So you're right.

707
00:22:24.672 --> 00:22:28.833
 Each of the partners got their own companies and we can operate them separately and so on.

708
00:22:30.934 --> 00:22:31.214
 But we,

709
00:22:31.294 --> 00:22:33.355
 the platform is there to be able to scale,

710
00:22:33.756 --> 00:22:34.016
 right?

711
00:22:34.356 --> 00:22:36.357
 And to be able to have a lot of these companies.

712
00:22:37.097 --> 00:22:37.877
 We don't think it's,

713
00:22:38.057 --> 00:22:38.318
 I mean,

714
00:22:38.338 --> 00:22:39.138
 we think it's probably...

715
00:22:41.766 --> 00:22:43.927
 a better approach.

716
00:22:43.928 --> 00:22:44.927
 In the current world where,

717
00:22:44.947 --> 00:22:45.187
 you know,

718
00:22:45.227 --> 00:22:46.267
 we've got precision medicine,

719
00:22:46.307 --> 00:22:47.748
 you've got very targeted assets.

720
00:22:49.828 --> 00:22:52.369
 The focus is important and more than the cross.

721
00:22:53.409 --> 00:22:53.569
Yes,

722
00:22:53.629 --> 00:23:01.311
 I would really like to take some time to talk about your 100 interviews that you have conducted and to give a bit of an insight from someone who is actually involved,

723
00:23:01.912 --> 00:23:05.593
 not just from a position paper or a report about these companies,

724
00:23:05.673 --> 00:23:06.613
 what's happening with them,

725
00:23:07.313 --> 00:23:08.453
 where all of this comes from,

726
00:23:08.794 --> 00:23:10.394
 and what exactly are we talking about here?

727
00:23:10.966 --> 00:23:12.687
 What is the real story behind all of this?

728
00:23:14.208 --> 00:23:14.448
I mean,

729
00:23:14.488 --> 00:23:20.232
 maybe we can start with what we observed is their problem,

730
00:23:20.272 --> 00:23:20.693
 basically,

731
00:23:20.933 --> 00:23:24.816
 which was not necessarily as clear when we started,

732
00:23:24.876 --> 00:23:25.056
 right?

733
00:23:26.617 --> 00:23:27.357
 And because you say,

734
00:23:27.417 --> 00:23:27.657
 okay,

735
00:23:27.718 --> 00:23:28.758
 maybe they don't have money,

736
00:23:28.838 --> 00:23:31.920
 maybe they don't have willingness or something like this to go to Europe.

737
00:23:33.141 --> 00:23:37.564
 What we see are two things,

738
00:23:37.604 --> 00:23:38.205
 but three things,

739
00:23:38.245 --> 00:23:39.966
 but two things that are really stringent.

740
00:23:40.534 --> 00:23:42.115
 First is they don't have the bandwidth.

741
00:23:42.895 --> 00:23:43.935
 This is as simple as that,

742
00:23:44.355 --> 00:23:50.577
 is that they are into so many other things that getting five minutes of brain time in Europe is just like a struggle,

743
00:23:50.617 --> 00:23:50.817
 right?

744
00:23:51.378 --> 00:23:55.759
 And so this is the primary thing I would say is that they know it's great.

745
00:23:55.779 --> 00:23:56.739
 They know it's important.

746
00:23:56.779 --> 00:23:58.460
 They know they should do something,

747
00:23:58.500 --> 00:24:00.120
 but the organization is not fit.

748
00:24:00.681 --> 00:24:01.781
 And we see that in small,

749
00:24:01.881 --> 00:24:02.761
 but also in larger.

750
00:24:03.121 --> 00:24:04.162
 Biotech is the same,

751
00:24:04.222 --> 00:24:04.422
 right?

752
00:24:05.646 --> 00:24:11.229
 Because there are so many other priorities or things that are perceived as other priorities that is there.

753
00:24:11.930 --> 00:24:12.910
 So that's the first thing.

754
00:24:14.031 --> 00:24:16.572
 And the second one is not necessarily a matter of money.

755
00:24:17.673 --> 00:24:19.254
 It's a matter of allocation of resource.

756
00:24:20.274 --> 00:24:21.035
 And because when you,

757
00:24:21.495 --> 00:24:21.755
 again,

758
00:24:22.576 --> 00:24:25.397
 speaking to those CEOs and the CBOs and chief commercial officer,

759
00:24:25.437 --> 00:24:30.560
 it's so hard to put a dollar in Europe when you've got also an opportunity to put a dollar in the U.S.

760
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:33.242
 organization or commercial organization or in R&D.

761
00:24:33.774 --> 00:24:36.796
 And even if they've got this kind of plans in mind,

762
00:24:36.956 --> 00:24:38.337
 if we've got the money to do that,

763
00:24:39.558 --> 00:24:40.258
 theoretically,

764
00:24:40.779 --> 00:24:42.099
 it's such a difficult thing to say,

765
00:24:42.159 --> 00:24:42.360
 okay,

766
00:24:42.420 --> 00:24:42.600
 yes,

767
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:45.642
 we're going to put this money into that to launch in Europe.

768
00:24:47.543 --> 00:24:52.166
 And probably based on the fact that they don't know how Europe works in most of the cases.

769
00:24:52.818 --> 00:24:54.960
And what about companies that are based in the East?

770
00:24:56.061 --> 00:24:56.181
So,

771
00:24:56.381 --> 00:24:56.621
 I mean,

772
00:24:56.641 --> 00:24:58.963
 we had a very interesting conversation,

773
00:24:58.964 --> 00:24:59.343
 we say,

774
00:24:59.784 --> 00:25:02.806
 and we hope that we can get a deal with an Asian company,

775
00:25:02.906 --> 00:25:03.907
 Chinese in particular.

776
00:25:04.708 --> 00:25:14.776
 I think there is really a big tectonic move at the moment in the biotech area where Chinese organizations are really coming to a point where they do that in a very professional way,

777
00:25:14.856 --> 00:25:15.357
 very neat,

778
00:25:15.437 --> 00:25:16.117
 very clean way.

779
00:25:16.998 --> 00:25:21.002
 We had access to a few data rooms and we had a chance to look at some data and it's very well done,

780
00:25:21.062 --> 00:25:21.422
 honestly.

781
00:25:22.738 --> 00:25:25.940
 And they've got a long-term perspective that is interesting.

782
00:25:26.740 --> 00:25:30.402
 And so they are also very interested in our model for this reason as well,

783
00:25:30.422 --> 00:25:33.184
 because they see us as a kind of a step-to-step into Europe.

784
00:25:33.544 --> 00:25:35.445
 And then they've got their own business in Europe,

785
00:25:35.565 --> 00:25:36.386
 and then they're fine,

786
00:25:36.466 --> 00:25:36.686
 right?

787
00:25:38.427 --> 00:25:40.028
 But the conversation will be much more,

788
00:25:40.888 --> 00:25:41.789
 what's going after that?

789
00:25:41.869 --> 00:25:43.450
 What is happening after the partnership,

790
00:25:44.090 --> 00:25:46.291
 rather than what is happening during the partnership,

791
00:25:46.932 --> 00:25:48.573
 where when do we get the patients?

792
00:25:48.653 --> 00:25:49.953
 When do we really get a price?

793
00:25:49.973 --> 00:25:51.034
 And so on forth.

794
00:25:51.678 --> 00:25:53.819
 And so we've got way more conversation on how to build,

795
00:25:53.859 --> 00:25:57.001
 what's going to be the impact on the long run and so on and so forth.

796
00:25:57.321 --> 00:25:58.902
 So this is a really different conversation.

797
00:26:00.063 --> 00:26:01.544
 But they're going to be there for sure.

798
00:26:02.805 --> 00:26:05.726
 And they're going to be there for a right reason because they're going to bring,

799
00:26:05.907 --> 00:26:06.167
 I mean,

800
00:26:06.347 --> 00:26:07.988
 innovation and really nice assets.

801
00:26:08.468 --> 00:26:13.291
Then maybe the political situation is maybe actually having an impact on some biotech strategies.

802
00:26:15.132 --> 00:26:15.372
I mean,

803
00:26:15.432 --> 00:26:15.672
 yes.

804
00:26:16.873 --> 00:26:17.013
 Yes,

805
00:26:17.033 --> 00:26:17.754
 of course.

806
00:26:17.755 --> 00:26:17.914
 I mean.

807
00:26:20.394 --> 00:26:22.735
 There has been a lot of things happening,

808
00:26:22.875 --> 00:26:30.940
 particularly since the beginning of the year with the new US administration that are touching us indirectly.

809
00:26:31.540 --> 00:26:34.902
 And I think tariffs is not touching us directly because for us,

810
00:26:35.042 --> 00:26:36.583
 it's bringing things into Europe.

811
00:26:36.603 --> 00:26:38.384
 So it's not selling something to US,

812
00:26:40.925 --> 00:26:42.226
 but it's creating uncertainty.

813
00:26:43.467 --> 00:26:45.268
 All the things that are going on with the FDA,

814
00:26:45.688 --> 00:26:49.650
 all the shakeups in the FDA administration and so on is creating uncertainty.

815
00:26:50.382 --> 00:26:53.123
 The conversation on what is called most favored nation,

816
00:26:53.643 --> 00:26:56.164
 which tried to align the prices with Europe and the U.S.

817
00:26:56.624 --> 00:26:59.145
 or try to get the European paying more for innovation.

818
00:27:00.745 --> 00:27:01.766
 This is also creating,

819
00:27:02.186 --> 00:27:02.446
 you know,

820
00:27:02.826 --> 00:27:03.846
 questions and so on.

821
00:27:03.866 --> 00:27:07.867
 And it's delaying for us.

822
00:27:07.947 --> 00:27:09.868
 It's delaying the decision in general.

823
00:27:11.589 --> 00:27:12.689
 But it's not necessarily,

824
00:27:13.749 --> 00:27:14.009
 you know,

825
00:27:14.429 --> 00:27:15.490
 cutting out the discussions,

826
00:27:15.550 --> 00:27:15.710
 too,

827
00:27:15.950 --> 00:27:16.310
 and just.

828
00:27:16.530 --> 00:27:16.790
 you know,

829
00:27:16.850 --> 00:27:18.511
 cutting out everything out of Europe and say,

830
00:27:18.551 --> 00:27:18.791
 I mean,

831
00:27:18.851 --> 00:27:20.292
 we've got some companies telling us,

832
00:27:20.732 --> 00:27:20.952
 okay,

833
00:27:20.972 --> 00:27:23.513
 we probably don't go to Europe because it's too complicated now.

834
00:27:24.553 --> 00:27:26.134
 But it's not too much of that.

835
00:27:26.994 --> 00:27:28.135
 And then for the Chinese,

836
00:27:28.535 --> 00:27:31.956
 it's also very interesting because they are the Chinese or Japanese,

837
00:27:31.996 --> 00:27:33.237
 but the Chinese in particular,

838
00:27:33.897 --> 00:27:36.198
 they want also to not just invest into the US,

839
00:27:36.538 --> 00:27:39.339
 but also they understand that they also need to invest into Europe,

840
00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:39.620
 right?

841
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:40.400
Yes.

842
00:27:40.860 --> 00:27:44.562
And so we've got this growing and significant increased interest,

843
00:27:44.582 --> 00:27:44.862
 I think,

844
00:27:44.902 --> 00:27:45.102
 from

845
00:27:45.442 --> 00:27:46.203
 Chinese companies,

846
00:27:46.283 --> 00:27:46.523
 really.

847
00:30:22.591 --> 00:30:26.355
And why did you decide to found the company here to establish the company in Europe here?

848
00:30:27.115 --> 00:30:27.275
Well,

849
00:30:27.796 --> 00:30:27.936
 yeah,

850
00:30:28.376 --> 00:30:29.077
 it's a good question.

851
00:30:29.177 --> 00:30:29.437
 I mean...

852
00:30:29.797 --> 00:30:30.798
Is there a reason or not?

853
00:30:31.659 --> 00:30:31.799
Yeah,

854
00:30:32.099 --> 00:30:32.219
 yeah,

855
00:30:32.340 --> 00:30:32.660
 there is.

856
00:30:32.700 --> 00:30:32.940
 I mean,

857
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:33.280
 there is,

858
00:30:33.641 --> 00:30:33.821
 well,

859
00:30:34.401 --> 00:30:36.723
 besides the fact that some of our founders are Swiss,

860
00:30:37.003 --> 00:30:38.845
 and I used to live in Switzerland for a long time,

861
00:30:39.245 --> 00:30:44.590
 but we believe that Switzerland is really a very good combination of business features.

862
00:30:44.990 --> 00:30:46.251
 I think it's very stable.

863
00:30:46.291 --> 00:30:46.551
 I mean,

864
00:30:46.591 --> 00:30:47.471
 it's business friendly.

865
00:30:47.511 --> 00:30:47.731
 I mean,

866
00:30:47.771 --> 00:30:49.472
 these are all the things that are known,

867
00:30:49.612 --> 00:30:49.832
 right?

868
00:30:50.772 --> 00:30:53.414
 But what is very important is I think if you think,

869
00:30:53.454 --> 00:30:54.374
 if you look at Europe,

870
00:30:54.414 --> 00:30:56.475
 this is the largest hub of talent,

871
00:30:56.655 --> 00:30:57.115
 period.

872
00:30:57.735 --> 00:30:59.596
 There is no other competing area from,

873
00:31:00.516 --> 00:31:02.317
 at least from a commercial talent or,

874
00:31:02.817 --> 00:31:03.078
 you know,

875
00:31:03.138 --> 00:31:03.998
 late stage talent,

876
00:31:04.038 --> 00:31:04.478
 I would say.

877
00:31:05.659 --> 00:31:08.120
 And so our model is about creating businesses.

878
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:10.361
 So it's about hiring people as well.

879
00:31:10.701 --> 00:31:13.782
 It's about having those competencies to have excellence in-house.

880
00:31:14.118 --> 00:31:16.319
 And so it's very important that we are in the middle of that,

881
00:31:16.399 --> 00:31:16.639
 right?

882
00:31:17.460 --> 00:31:21.482
 And that we can just tap into this fantastic ecosystem of Switzerland.

883
00:31:21.782 --> 00:31:21.902
 So,

884
00:31:22.683 --> 00:31:22.803
 yeah,

885
00:31:23.083 --> 00:31:25.084
 I would say first is probably the talent pool.

886
00:31:25.284 --> 00:31:27.906
 And second is probably the business friendly elements.

887
00:31:27.946 --> 00:31:28.086
 And,

888
00:31:28.846 --> 00:31:29.046
 okay.

889
00:31:29.407 --> 00:31:29.587
Okay.

890
00:31:29.947 --> 00:31:32.368
 And just talking a little bit more about the kinds of talents you need,

891
00:31:33.329 --> 00:31:33.589
 you know,

892
00:31:34.009 --> 00:31:34.970
 can you explain a bit?

893
00:31:35.310 --> 00:31:35.530
Sure.

894
00:31:35.890 --> 00:31:37.871
 We've got the way we work is twofold,

895
00:31:37.951 --> 00:31:38.231
 actually.

896
00:31:38.652 --> 00:31:39.692
 We've got our own platform.

897
00:31:39.792 --> 00:31:39.912
 So

898
00:31:40.273 --> 00:31:42.454
 Xcode.bio, which is providing services.

899
00:31:42.894 --> 00:31:46.136
 And it's providing also expertise to set up the new companies,

900
00:31:46.156 --> 00:31:47.838
 to set up the new entities and so on.

901
00:31:48.538 --> 00:31:48.978
 And for that,

902
00:31:49.018 --> 00:31:52.461
 we've actually got a really extensive network of talented individuals.

903
00:31:53.061 --> 00:32:03.308
 We've got at this point probably very close to about 50 different experts in our networks covering all the various functions and areas that you could possibly imagine.

904
00:32:04.469 --> 00:32:10.653
 And we need to have a very comprehensive and thorough network here because we are dealing with companies with very specific technology.

905
00:32:11.114 --> 00:32:11.314
Okay.

906
00:32:11.654 --> 00:32:13.935
So when you've got a radiopharmaceutical company,

907
00:32:13.995 --> 00:32:15.775
 you cannot just get your random

908
00:32:16.115 --> 00:32:17.796
 CMC or your random regulatory.

909
00:32:17.976 --> 00:32:19.116
 You need someone who knows this,

910
00:32:19.296 --> 00:32:19.536
 right?

911
00:32:19.876 --> 00:32:20.157
Okay.

912
00:32:20.597 --> 00:32:21.377
And so we've got,

913
00:32:21.537 --> 00:32:23.638
 it's very important for us to have this talent pool.

914
00:32:23.938 --> 00:32:24.578
 So first thing,

915
00:32:24.938 --> 00:32:28.019
 the second element is that when we create the new company,

916
00:32:28.899 --> 00:32:30.399
 we need to populate the new company.

917
00:32:30.840 --> 00:32:31.300
 We also,

918
00:32:31.560 --> 00:32:32.060
 in general,

919
00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:36.781
 we create an entity here in Switzerland that is going to deploy across Europe.

920
00:32:37.101 --> 00:32:38.942
 But we put the headquarters here.

921
00:32:39.322 --> 00:32:42.403
 And so this is where we need to have people with the commercial excellence,

922
00:32:42.643 --> 00:32:42.923
 you know,

923
00:32:43.364 --> 00:32:44.064
 expertise,

924
00:32:44.584 --> 00:32:44.824
 again,

925
00:32:45.064 --> 00:32:46.425
 in various disease areas.

926
00:32:46.765 --> 00:32:46.885
So,

927
00:32:47.505 --> 00:32:47.705
 okay,

928
00:32:47.745 --> 00:32:47.926
 like...

929
00:32:49.106 --> 00:32:49.326
I mean,

930
00:32:49.366 --> 00:32:49.946
 we go from a,

931
00:32:50.246 --> 00:32:50.607
 I don't know,

932
00:32:50.847 --> 00:32:56.369
 neuroscience with something in very specific neuroscience element to rare oncology or rare disease and so on.

933
00:32:56.769 --> 00:33:03.612
 And you need different profiles and you need to have this kind of diversity around you to be able to ramp up your organization.

934
00:33:03.932 --> 00:33:04.052
 And

935
00:33:05.072 --> 00:33:07.794
 I don't see too many other countries with that level of diversity.

936
00:33:09.314 --> 00:33:11.455
 the breadth of talents that exist in Europe,

937
00:33:11.475 --> 00:33:11.875
 at least.

938
00:33:12.235 --> 00:33:12.395
Yes,

939
00:33:12.435 --> 00:33:15.577
 to deal with Europe and to really handle everything that comes with it.

940
00:33:15.997 --> 00:33:16.117
Yeah,

941
00:33:16.217 --> 00:33:16.417
 sure.

942
00:33:17.297 --> 00:33:18.198
We still have a few minutes.

943
00:33:18.538 --> 00:33:19.878
 I would like to talk about the future.

944
00:33:20.439 --> 00:33:22.359
 What do you think is the biggest threat of this system,

945
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:23.560
 this European system,

946
00:33:24.220 --> 00:33:24.780
 in your opinion?

947
00:33:25.601 --> 00:33:26.741
That's a broad question.

948
00:33:26.801 --> 00:33:26.981
 Well,

949
00:33:27.061 --> 00:33:27.562
 let me see.

950
00:33:27.822 --> 00:33:27.942
 Well,

951
00:33:28.542 --> 00:33:30.403
 I struggle to answer to this question,

952
00:33:30.463 --> 00:33:31.063
 to be honest,

953
00:33:31.083 --> 00:33:32.524
 because we don't see that as a threat,

954
00:33:32.624 --> 00:33:32.844
 right?

955
00:33:33.904 --> 00:33:36.265
 The way we try to think about it is as a given,

956
00:33:36.505 --> 00:33:36.745
 right?

957
00:33:37.185 --> 00:33:38.646
 And this is the way it is at the moment.

958
00:33:40.470 --> 00:33:41.711
 How do we make the best of that?

959
00:33:42.692 --> 00:33:43.352
 Then how do we,

960
00:33:43.872 --> 00:33:44.113
 you know,

961
00:33:44.193 --> 00:33:48.155
 play with the system to be able to reach the patient in a viable,

962
00:33:48.275 --> 00:33:49.656
 in a financially viable way,

963
00:33:49.776 --> 00:33:49.977
 right,

964
00:33:50.017 --> 00:33:50.757
 for biotech?

965
00:33:51.558 --> 00:33:52.218
 So I would say,

966
00:33:52.638 --> 00:33:53.159
 I would say,

967
00:33:54.299 --> 00:33:54.540
 I mean,

968
00:33:55.921 --> 00:33:56.281
 of course,

969
00:33:56.301 --> 00:34:03.446
 the main difficulty is definitely going to be the budget and the prioritization of the budget of healthcare systems in Europe,

970
00:34:03.846 --> 00:34:04.086
 you know,

971
00:34:04.166 --> 00:34:04.366
 right?

972
00:34:04.766 --> 00:34:05.127
 Where do you,

973
00:34:05.767 --> 00:34:06.147
 where do you,

974
00:34:06.588 --> 00:34:06.828
 you know,

975
00:34:06.908 --> 00:34:08.049
 you've got a limited budget,

976
00:34:08.509 --> 00:34:09.510
 where do you put your efforts,

977
00:34:09.590 --> 00:34:09.770
 right?

978
00:34:10.490 --> 00:34:15.152
 Do you want to go into very specific diseases that may be a bit more expensive,

979
00:34:15.752 --> 00:34:18.354
 but very neglected or very difficult to treat things?

980
00:34:18.934 --> 00:34:25.217
 Or are you going to go into or invest your money into early stage or just primary medicine,

981
00:34:25.277 --> 00:34:26.157
 all these kind of things?

982
00:34:26.557 --> 00:34:28.278
 And we see this is not always very good.

983
00:34:28.618 --> 00:34:31.800
 We see in some countries that there is a lot of money spent on,

984
00:34:32.300 --> 00:34:32.600
 you know,

985
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:35.941
 analgesics and first line things and reimbursed very,

986
00:34:36.001 --> 00:34:36.482
 very well,

987
00:34:36.762 --> 00:34:36.982
 right?

988
00:34:37.902 --> 00:34:39.184
 And then it's putting pressure on,

989
00:34:39.185 --> 00:34:39.424
 you know,

990
00:34:39.525 --> 00:34:43.190
 the last cancer treatments that is probably going to save the life of someone,

991
00:34:43.210 --> 00:34:43.431
 right?

992
00:34:43.751 --> 00:34:44.192
 But a few,

993
00:34:44.312 --> 00:34:44.532
 right?

994
00:34:44.973 --> 00:34:45.173
Okay,

995
00:34:45.193 --> 00:34:45.694
 no problem.

996
00:34:46.695 --> 00:34:47.557
And so this is probably,

997
00:34:47.797 --> 00:34:52.765
 this is this unclear prioritization that is probably a threat,

998
00:34:53.125 --> 00:34:53.546
 I believe.

999
00:34:55.504 --> 00:34:56.765
 The fit for precision medicine,

1000
00:34:56.785 --> 00:34:57.185
 if you want,

1001
00:34:57.385 --> 00:34:57.805
 at the end.

1002
00:34:58.245 --> 00:35:02.547
 So are we going to get into a world where we take care more of this kind of very difficult things?

1003
00:35:02.987 --> 00:35:03.167
Okay.

1004
00:35:03.468 --> 00:35:03.628
 Okay.

1005
00:35:03.748 --> 00:35:04.068
 Unclear,

1006
00:35:04.069 --> 00:35:04.348
 you say.

1007
00:35:04.508 --> 00:35:04.708
 Okay.

1008
00:35:05.709 --> 00:35:06.529
So I would say that.

1009
00:35:08.210 --> 00:35:08.330
Yeah,

1010
00:35:08.370 --> 00:35:10.371
 the strategy is unclear to what we want to.

1011
00:35:11.491 --> 00:35:11.711
 Okay.

1012
00:35:13.072 --> 00:35:13.452
 But yes,

1013
00:35:13.572 --> 00:35:17.834
 what's interesting is you're in the middle of innovation and science and a product.

1014
00:35:18.494 --> 00:35:18.614
Yeah.

1015
00:35:19.054 --> 00:35:22.496
Then it's also maybe a way to invest in science and to push science.

1016
00:35:22.820 --> 00:35:23.060
 For you,

1017
00:35:23.200 --> 00:35:24.361
 it might be a bit challenging,

1018
00:35:24.381 --> 00:35:25.722
 maybe even more so than for others,

1019
00:35:25.782 --> 00:35:28.224
 because you are trying to bring in innovation from abroad.

1020
00:35:28.604 --> 00:35:33.808
 And this means you are introducing new ideas and approaches that people here might not be familiar with,

1021
00:35:33.928 --> 00:35:35.309
 which can make things more complicated.

1022
00:35:35.830 --> 00:35:35.970
Yeah,

1023
00:35:35.990 --> 00:35:36.210
 I mean,

1024
00:35:36.230 --> 00:35:37.611
 we bring solutions for patients,

1025
00:35:37.631 --> 00:35:39.172
 so we bring solutions for healthcare,

1026
00:35:39.432 --> 00:35:39.653
 right?

1027
00:35:41.014 --> 00:35:41.254
 I mean,

1028
00:35:41.294 --> 00:35:44.116
 I would hope that there is more of European innovations coming,

1029
00:35:44.176 --> 00:35:47.398
 and it seems that the European institutions are getting there slowly,

1030
00:35:47.478 --> 00:35:49.480
 but they probably need to muscle up.

1031
00:35:49.620 --> 00:35:50.040
 of course,

1032
00:35:50.041 --> 00:35:52.721
 the investments in early stage biotech and things like this,

1033
00:35:54.561 --> 00:35:56.942
 where we are focused is really probably a bit more on,

1034
00:35:58.683 --> 00:35:58.863
 again,

1035
00:35:58.864 --> 00:36:03.044
 the delivery to the patients and how we have,

1036
00:36:03.404 --> 00:36:04.204
 at the end of the day,

1037
00:36:04.644 --> 00:36:05.845
 a more healthy population,

1038
00:36:06.025 --> 00:36:08.145
 or at least some people are really treated better,

1039
00:36:08.445 --> 00:36:08.686
 right?

1040
00:36:09.846 --> 00:36:10.246
 And here,

1041
00:36:10.526 --> 00:36:10.726
 yes,

1042
00:36:10.766 --> 00:36:14.187
 there is already a lot to do because there are those late stage assets that are ready.

1043
00:36:15.207 --> 00:36:17.168
 And there is really a tsunami that is coming.

1044
00:36:18.332 --> 00:36:21.933
 So the question of prioritization is going to be very acute at some point.

1045
00:36:24.794 --> 00:36:25.234
 In payers'

1046
00:36:25.254 --> 00:36:29.115
 discussions and also in budget and political discussions in certain countries,

1047
00:36:29.775 --> 00:36:37.918
 this issue arises because either you accept not to fund some medicine or you have to make a difficult choice and lag a little bit behind,

1048
00:36:38.118 --> 00:36:40.299
 which we're already starting to see in some countries,

1049
00:36:40.359 --> 00:36:40.539
 right?

1050
00:36:40.619 --> 00:36:43.280
 Lagging a bit behind in terms of innovation and you leave.

1051
00:36:43.620 --> 00:36:43.820
Yes,

1052
00:36:43.900 --> 00:36:44.460
 there are ways.

1053
00:36:44.788 --> 00:36:48.050
And you leave patients without solutions that exist elsewhere in the world.

1054
00:36:50.231 --> 00:36:52.093
 Or you make the decision to really fund that,

1055
00:36:52.653 --> 00:36:58.296
 making sure that access is preserved for assets that are well demonstrated for adding value.

1056
00:36:59.057 --> 00:37:01.118
 And then you do maybe a little bit less on other things,

1057
00:37:01.218 --> 00:37:01.418
 right,

1058
00:37:01.458 --> 00:37:01.879
 that are,

1059
00:37:04.700 --> 00:37:06.001
 it's less life threatening,

1060
00:37:06.101 --> 00:37:06.762
 less serious.

1061
00:37:07.162 --> 00:37:09.423
 I don't really know how to actually qualify that,

1062
00:37:09.463 --> 00:37:10.624
 but there is this shift.

1063
00:37:13.340 --> 00:37:16.202
 And probably flexibility is going to be very important to have.

1064
00:37:16.662 --> 00:37:20.945
 And this is not always the most evident feature of systems that are not that flexible.

1065
00:37:21.466 --> 00:37:23.107
 And so that's where the tension may come.

1066
00:37:23.847 --> 00:37:24.648
 But we are here to,

1067
00:37:25.068 --> 00:37:25.288
 I mean,

1068
00:37:25.308 --> 00:37:27.189
 we see ourselves as being here to help,

1069
00:37:27.950 --> 00:37:28.750
 not just to fight.

1070
00:37:30.151 --> 00:37:33.514
 It's really about how we can do the best with this system and try to make an...

1071
00:37:33.814 --> 00:37:34.014
Yes,

1072
00:37:34.054 --> 00:37:35.175
 but it's also quite interesting,

1073
00:37:35.235 --> 00:37:35.555
 actually,

1074
00:37:35.595 --> 00:37:37.216
 because right in front of you,

1075
00:37:37.616 --> 00:37:40.078
 what you see is the big pharmaceutical company model,

1076
00:37:40.138 --> 00:37:40.318
 which,

1077
00:37:40.418 --> 00:37:40.839
 as you know,

1078
00:37:40.919 --> 00:37:42.760
 is also not particularly flexible.

1079
00:37:43.128 --> 00:37:43.248
Yeah,

1080
00:37:43.408 --> 00:37:43.548
 yeah.

1081
00:37:43.588 --> 00:37:43.868
 I mean,

1082
00:37:44.009 --> 00:37:45.890
 they've got their merits and they've got such a...

1083
00:37:46.510 --> 00:37:48.491
 I don't want to blame them because it's not about that.

1084
00:37:48.771 --> 00:37:48.891
No,

1085
00:37:48.892 --> 00:37:49.011
 no,

1086
00:37:49.031 --> 00:37:49.632
 it's not the point.

1087
00:37:49.932 --> 00:37:55.655
But they really do have significant advantages when it comes to bringing about this kind of large-scale innovation.

1088
00:37:56.075 --> 00:37:57.296
 And they do that in a great way.

1089
00:37:57.676 --> 00:37:59.237
And it was a moment to make this happen.

1090
00:37:59.617 --> 00:38:01.518
But there are actually other things to do,

1091
00:38:01.718 --> 00:38:01.959
 right?

1092
00:38:02.799 --> 00:38:05.481
 And there are really all these smaller disease areas where...

1093
00:38:05.921 --> 00:38:06.141
Yes.

1094
00:38:06.301 --> 00:38:06.921
 And the point is,

1095
00:38:07.001 --> 00:38:08.142
 in the face of problems,

1096
00:38:08.542 --> 00:38:09.383
 what do you propose?

1097
00:38:09.443 --> 00:38:10.283
 How can you adapt?

1098
00:38:11.104 --> 00:38:11.404
And so...

1099
00:38:12.272 --> 00:38:14.974
 We see so many drugs that are getting really close to the market.

1100
00:38:15.455 --> 00:38:16.095
 And at the moment,

1101
00:38:16.195 --> 00:38:17.877
 there is no plan to go to Europe.

1102
00:38:18.357 --> 00:38:19.098
 And that's a shame.

1103
00:38:20.499 --> 00:38:20.739
 I mean,

1104
00:38:20.979 --> 00:38:22.120
 among the advanced markets,

1105
00:38:22.180 --> 00:38:23.541
 this is the biggest patient market,

1106
00:38:23.802 --> 00:38:24.502
 if I may say so,

1107
00:38:24.922 --> 00:38:25.743
 or the patient pool,

1108
00:38:25.903 --> 00:38:26.123
 right?

1109
00:38:28.385 --> 00:38:31.007
 There are many more patients than in the US alone.

1110
00:38:31.428 --> 00:38:32.389
 So you cannot just,

1111
00:38:32.469 --> 00:38:32.729
 I mean,

1112
00:38:33.289 --> 00:38:33.730
 in my view,

1113
00:38:33.770 --> 00:38:34.991
 you cannot just go without it,

1114
00:38:35.031 --> 00:38:35.251
 right?

1115
00:38:35.631 --> 00:38:36.412
 You have to be there.

1116
00:38:36.552 --> 00:38:37.773
 You have to be in Europe.

1117
00:38:38.073 --> 00:38:38.213
Yes.

1118
00:38:38.253 --> 00:38:39.955
 And how do you see your company in five years?

1119
00:38:40.255 --> 00:38:40.375
So,

1120
00:38:40.615 --> 00:38:40.735
 yeah,

1121
00:38:40.855 --> 00:38:41.356
 good question.

1122
00:38:42.852 --> 00:38:43.552
 With a lot of NUCO,

1123
00:38:43.572 --> 00:38:44.273
 a lot of partners,

1124
00:38:44.313 --> 00:38:46.273
 we are building the platform to be able to scale.

1125
00:38:46.614 --> 00:38:47.674
 So that's really about,

1126
00:38:47.794 --> 00:38:49.435
 it's not just about having one or two.

1127
00:38:50.135 --> 00:38:51.736
 It's really just being able to go big.

1128
00:38:52.616 --> 00:38:55.077
 There are also other geographies that we're interested in.

1129
00:38:58.518 --> 00:39:01.139
 I'm probably biased because I lived in Japan for some time.

1130
00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:03.881
 And I think the Japanese market also,

1131
00:39:04.141 --> 00:39:04.461
 in a way,

1132
00:39:04.581 --> 00:39:06.482
 shares common things with the European one.

1133
00:39:07.562 --> 00:39:08.783
 It's very difficult to get in.

1134
00:39:09.363 --> 00:39:10.043
 But once you're in,

1135
00:39:10.383 --> 00:39:11.944
 it's a fantastic healthcare system.

1136
00:39:12.380 --> 00:39:12.560
Okay.

1137
00:39:13.100 --> 00:39:15.581
 What advice would you give to a biotech CEO?

1138
00:39:16.842 --> 00:39:18.963
I would tell them don't neglect Europe.

1139
00:39:20.263 --> 00:39:21.284
 It's a great market.

1140
00:39:22.484 --> 00:39:24.705
 It's a great place to also learn for them.

1141
00:39:25.185 --> 00:39:26.986
 And because there's good science,

1142
00:39:27.026 --> 00:39:27.907
 there are good doctors.

1143
00:39:28.567 --> 00:39:28.687
Yeah.

1144
00:39:28.987 --> 00:39:29.967
There are a lot of patients.

1145
00:39:30.928 --> 00:39:36.110
 And so be prepared and grow the right muscle to get there.

1146
00:39:37.190 --> 00:39:38.571
 And we are here to help if need be.

1147
00:39:39.051 --> 00:39:39.211
Yeah.

1148
00:39:39.692 --> 00:39:39.932
 Okay.

1149
00:39:40.352 --> 00:39:40.672
 Thank you.

1150
00:39:41.032 --> 00:39:41.592
Thank you very much,

1151
00:39:41.652 --> 00:39:42.433
 Natalie.

1152
00:39:42.434 --> 00:39:43.173
 It was very nice.

1153
00:39:43.533 --> 00:39:44.594
In the next episode,

1154
00:39:44.754 --> 00:39:46.755
 we'll explore the tension between access,

1155
00:39:46.975 --> 00:39:48.696
 price and collective choices.

1156
00:39:49.156 --> 00:39:49.997
 And in the comments,

1157
00:39:50.097 --> 00:39:51.037
 feel free to tell me,

1158
00:39:51.518 --> 00:39:55.560
 is Europe too fragmented to be competitive or is its diversity a strength?

1159
00:39:58.944 --> 00:39:59.065
 I