The metric,
the metric to rule them all that YouTube really cares about is watch time.
They've just understood that that's how they grow consumption.
I wouldn't say the subscribers don't matter because,
yeah,
to your point,
you want to get over kind of that thousand threshold.
And maybe if you get someone to subscribe,
they're more likely to come back and more likely to check you out.
But it is definitely more of a vanity metric than anything else.
And so what you've got to be obsessively focused on if you're creating organic content on YouTube is how do I increase my watch time?
You're watching Marketing Mystics with Norn Farrar and Kevin King.
It's my brother from another mother,
Mr.
Farrar.
How are you doing,
man?
Good.
How's it going today,
sir?
It's going well.
I heard life is all good for you again.
You told me the other day you had your first cigar in like two weeks because it's been like so freaking cold.
And I had a cold and it's actually a much longer than that.
So the last time I was with you at your marketing masters event,
that was the last time I had a cigar.
Wow.
Yeah.
You must've been,
did you have the shakes or are you like,
I was in withdrawal.
You're sitting on the toilet where you just like shaking.
Yeah.
But I had my
Coke zero.
So that was okay.
Yeah.
But you know,
it's,
it's crazy because.
you know that we like we both have cigar collections right and i got these new humidors and the cigars are absolutely perfect and i've been wanting to go outside but it would have been just too cold man
that's you gotta get you gotta build a you got a big house there you got three floors you could put a cigar room in one of those but i think the wife says nix is that right
Yeah.
I even,
I have the cigar vision,
not all right.
And I went up to her the other day and I said,
you see this rabbit,
we have one downstairs,
but Kevin has one.
We were able to smoke in his condo.
And if we got this,
did she just turn around?
Oh yeah.
She said it is never going to happen.
Yeah.
What the hell freezes over?
You know what,
what I think a lot of people,
you and I come from the Amazon world.
Let's speak of something that's never going to happen.
And,
you know,
I just did it with you were at the event.
I'm not sure when this is coming out,
but you're at my Elevate 360 event in Iceland.
You know,
I do a big event for Amazon sellers called Billion Dollar Seller Summit,
which is all about Amazon.
Great event,
really high ticket,
really good stuff.
And then I do a second event right after it,
which a portion of the people stay for called Elevate 360.
And the whole idea is to get outside of this Amazon fishbowl.
we all you know in the amazon world a lot of people they just swim in this amazon fishbowl and they don't really know general marketing and i was just talking with uh perry belcher last week actually uh and perry was like yeah uh i
came to your market masters which you just mentioned earlier and it's like i was just baffled this guy's doing 10 million dollars a year selling a um a pillow a travel pillow
And I'd take a look at his stuff and his marketing is not any good.
And this is not any good.
It's amazing how many people in that Amazon world don't understand marketing and what they could do with outside traffic when it comes to that.
And that's one of the reasons for Elevate360.
And just another really quick story,
and this will segue into our guest today,
I think really nicely,
is
I was at
VidSummit, which is Daryl Ives and Mr.
Beast's
YouTube conference in Dallas back in,
I think it was in September of last year.
I was just sitting there,
minding my own business,
sitting on my chair,
waiting for the next speaker to come on.
It was like a five-minute break.
People were milling around.
This woman walks by me,
and she passes me up.
And then she turns around,
looks back,
and says,
are you,
excuse me,
sir,
are you Kevin King?
I was like,
yeah.
Are you with the IRS,
or who are you with?
She's like,
no,
no.
I'm just,
I think you do stuff for Helium 10,
right?
For like,
you do the Freedom Ticket course.
I was like,
yeah.
And she's like,
oh,
I'm taking that course right now.
Do you mind if I sit for a second?
So she sits next to me and we start talking.
She's telling me how she just started the course.
She's learning how to sell on Amazon,
going through the process.
And I was like,
so have you picked a product yet?
She's like,
oh,
yeah,
I already got a product.
I said,
oh,
when do you think you'll get it launched?
She said,
oh,
it's already on Amazon.
I said,
oh,
really?
How's it doing?
She said,
we're doing $200,000 a month.
And I was like,
wait a second.
You told me you're just now learning how to sell on Amazon.
and you're doing $200,000 a month selling this product,
how in the world are you doing that?
She said,
oh,
I'm just sending traffic from YouTube to my Amazon listing.
And I took Daryl Ives'
training course or whatever on how to do it.
And I think that's a big thing that a lot of people in that Amazon world and people in the Shopify and DTC world and everything else that's listening to this podcast.
don't really realize what opportunities there are on YouTube.
And I was just at another event in Cancun.
I was talking to some people.
As I look,
I think the most underutilized thing right now for in e-commerce total is YouTube.
And I think,
you know,
a lot of people,
the hot thing is TikTok.
Let's get on TikTok shop.
Let's get on Instagram.
Let's get on social media,
get all these influencers.
But all it is short-lived.
All that stuff can make money,
but it's short-lived.
But YouTube is long.
And it stays there forever.
And what YouTube is doing with Schwartz right now,
and I'm sure we'll talk about this with our guests,
I think YouTube is the untapped goldmine right now for e-commerce sellers and in marketing that nobody is using.
And you and I have talked about this,
even for this podcast,
how we're just missing the ball on some of what we're doing on this podcast.
And we're re-engineering everything on YouTube.
Do you agree?
Do you think YouTube is something that people just aren't paying enough attention to?
So first of all,
I can just see you.
sitting beside this lady oh yes I am Kevin King
I yes yes I am the legendary of Amazon yes and
I could see you even probably did one of my things yes you can sit down
I've got a question for you yeah sure go ahead
200
000 so yeah yeah but
I agree
I agree with you
So we've talked about this actually for years and years and years,
probably five,
six years,
like way back in the days of Wilford.
You know,
Wilford Lightheart,
we were talking about this.
And yeah,
very underutilized.
So I'm glad we'll be able to talk about that today.
Yeah.
Our guest today,
if you want to go ahead and bring it on,
Brett Cherrywell.
Brett's from OMG Commerce.
And OMG is a man.
performance marketing company and they they're like specialists and uh and outside traffic and i mean they you do stuff for like native deodorant and a whole bunch of big brands right yeah that's correct so native helped them grow over the course of six years from like 100 million online to
100 million total and i think last year they did a billion total arctic coolers and tumblers crumble cookie boom beauty a number of others so we love working with great brands and helping them grow so
let's be,
cause I know what we do every frigging podcast is we start going down these rabbit holes and we don't even know who the guest is.
So,
you know,
we know you're involved in,
you're the founder,
I believe CEO as well.
CEO.
Yep.
You got,
uh,
of OMG commerce,
but let's talk a little bit more about other things that you're doing.
You have a podcast.
Yeah.
And that,
that is e-commerce evolution,
right?
e-commerce evolution yeah man love love to rock the microphone like you guys and and i just recorded a few months ago my 300th episode so i've been at it a while yeah that's great so tell us a little bit more uh about you yourself and then we'll get into this youtube thing yeah
uh absolutely so i am a marketing junkie started my first ad agency right out of college so i've always been fascinated by human behavior consumer behavior what ads work what ads don't so
I've dabbled in TV,
radio,
direct mail.
SEO is really how I got my start in online marketing.
And then once YouTube ads,
and my favorite was always TV and SEO,
like in the early days.
And then when
YouTube ads came out,
I was like,
wait a minute.
This is like
TV plus SEO plus search ads.
Like all my world's coming together.
So I've always loved marketing.
Love sports.
So I'm a basketball coach.
But the...
The way people probably remember me is I'm the crazy dude with eight kids.
So eight,
count them,
eight kids from age 22 down to eight.
Oldest and youngest are boys,
six girls in between.
So
I'm two weddings in,
about to be three in August.
And so it's wild times,
man.
I'm a fan of scaling businesses,
and apparently I'm a fan of scaling families.
Yeah,
it sounds like that.
Yeah.
I think we are officially done.
I have an interesting YouTube story,
which is,
it combines AdSense with YouTube.
So my son,
Quinton,
Kevin,
you know Quinton,
he decided that he was going to get in and start doing these really unique videos when he was in high school.
And they took off.
They caught on like fire.
And he was making some pretty good bucks,
you know,
like pretty good bucks.
I'm talking about a thousand bucks,
twelve hundred bucks a month.
So back then he's doing great.
I'm supporting him.
Go out and make these,
you know,
these these videos.
He's using my account.
I get this email and it says,
you have a lifetime suspension from YouTube.
And it's like,
what?
What did I do?
Like,
this is my company's on there at the time,
right?
And it turns out that he would go into the auditorium during lunch,
ask all of his friends to run all of this traffic over to the YouTube videos.
They caught on.
And
I only recently.
since I started to come back onto Amazon was able to any business I had was all shut down a hundred percent oh personal anything and so it was only when I got back on to uh uh onto Amazon that I they waved it and I could get back onto YouTube blacklisting you I love the creativity from your son that's
that's gorilla marketing right that's like yeah just getting out there hustling making it happen and YouTube's like uh-uh not not gonna not gonna happen here
that's a great story uh what is it that makes you what is it that makes youtube different i'll tell i mean yeah i mean that you said that you you tried all these different modalities of marketing and that's the one that really stood out to you and and drew you in yeah
there's there's a few things about youtube that you need to understand and and there's some similarities it has to other channels and then there's some things that are different so there's really nothing like
YouTube,
I will say though,
part of my ethos has always been like whatever marketing works,
whatever marketing gets customers to come in the door if you're brick and mortar or to click on your listing or maybe not to click but to come back to your listing on Amazon or on your own D2C site and purchase,
that's the marketing I like,
right?
I like the marketing that puts dollars in your pocket.
And so I've always been fascinated by that.
A few things that make YouTube different.
One is just the way
consumers interact with YouTube.
So generally speaking,
people go to YouTube for a specific purpose,
to be entertained,
to learn something.
There's a lot of how-to information on YouTube.
So they're going there for a specific purpose.
And I love that you guys are leaning into YouTube for your podcast.
YouTube is now the number one platform for podcasts.
It's also,
believe it or not,
the number one streaming platform.
So more people stream
YouTube on their connected TVs.
then stream Netflix or Hulu or Disney Plus or any of those.
And it's by a long shot.
It's like 50%
more people stream YouTube than Netflix.
And then YouTube is bigger than like all the others,
almost all the other major ones combined.
And so like 35%
of all YouTube content is consumed on a
65-inch or bigger TV?
Yeah,
I don't know exactly about the
65-inch or bigger,
but I saw a study recently that showed that it's over 50%.
50%.
of all youtube consumption is on a tv screen now so so it wouldn't surprise me at all because i think most people have you know pretty pretty big tvs are getting bigger and bigger um so yeah yeah so you need to think about tv screen when you're building your content whether that's organic content or youtube
ads and so you know makeup i really i always do coming in coming in 4k right yeah yeah and then on a little uh
mobile phone anymore like brett you know he just laid it down for you yeah exactly and so so somebody think about then so they're they're going there for a purpose they're also maybe watching on a tv screen so not as many people click through a youtube ad it's just not a platform where people see an ad and immediately click if you compare youtube to meta even meta
has more than double the click-through rate of youtube on average
And so one of the comparisons I use is that YouTube is more like TV and now people are watching it on TV,
right?
So it's like you can't expect someone to click a TV ad.
We've never really done that,
right?
And so this is more of a view-based platform than it is a click-based platform.
So that's really important to keep in mind.
People spend a lot of time on YouTube.
So the average duration,
and I've seen different studies on this,
but
40 minutes is the average duration on YouTube.
And that kind of makes sense,
right?
If I'm watching on a TV screen.
or if I'm listening to my favorite podcast,
or I'm watching my favorite creator,
time slips away.
So I spend a lot of time on the platform.
And so kind of understanding how people use it,
how they interact with it is incredibly important.
And I think that that click-through piece is super important because people run YouTube and they expect to see the direct conversions they see on meta,
but they won't.
Or they expect to see the direct conversions that they see on sponsored products or something like that.
And they for sure won't,
right?
completely different beast,
different vehicle,
right?
Like this is the Ferrari.
It's not a work truck.
It's a unique thing,
right?
And so understanding the way people interact with it is critical than understanding how do I leverage it to grow my business?
What's up,
everybody?
Your good old buddies,
Norm and Kevin here.
And I've got an Amazon creative team that I want to introduce you to.
That's right,
Kevin.
It's called the House of AMZ.
And it's the leading provider in combining marketing and branding with laser focus on Amazon.
Hey,
Norm,
they do a lot of really cool stuff if you haven't seen what they do,
like full listing graphics,
premium A-plus content,
storefront design,
branding,
photography,
renderings,
packaging design.
and a whole lot of other stuff that Amazon sellers need.
Yeah,
and guess what?
They have nine years active in this space.
So you can skip the guesswork,
trust the experts.
There's no fees.
There's no retainers.
You pay per project.
So if you want to take your product to the next level,
check out House of AMZ.
That's HouseofAMZ.com.
House of AMZ.
I guess one of the things when you're looking at YouTube,
it's different because while you're doing this,
while you're talking,
whether it be a streaming platform or like this is just published approximately two weeks afterwards,
but the comments,
you know,
if you're just not used to going in and commenting or sharing or liking and,
you know,
the importance that all of that takes.
with anything that you publish on YouTube.
So it's actually getting used to playing around with that type of environment.
Yeah,
so you've got a couple different things at play here.
If you're trying to lean into YouTube organics,
so you want your content to either rank in search or to be shared through the YouTube algorithm,
you definitely want engagement in that piece of content.
It's really more watch time than anything else.
That's really what YouTube cares about.
It's more about...
watch time that it is even comments or shares or anything like that you know i know with meta they really pay attention to comments and likes and shares and things like that with youtube they're interested in watch time but what's kind of interesting is if you take youtube and you lean into just an ad play where you've got you know videos you upload to youtube for ads comments
and stuff really don't matter you can even hide them if you want to like if you don't want the riffraff making negative comments on your on your videos
You don't have to display that.
You can just run it as an ad.
So you've got some options there.
We did something the other day that we weren't running ads for my podcast,
Launch With Norm.
And we just started doing $1.
It was $100.
And all of a sudden,
the amount of subscribers that had come in on that one very inexpensive ad was crazy.
So,
you know,
it's something that we've missed out on.
Everything was organic.
So now we've switched over,
Kev.
We're going to be talking about this.
But just taking,
even focusing on the podcasts that have the most engagement and then just throwing some money against it.
And wow,
the watch time went up by double or triple.
And we got,
I think.
200 or 300%
more subscribers over that two week period of time.
It's great.
And you spent,
you said a hundred bucks.
A hundred bucks.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
Were those,
were those going to view based campaigns?
So you were taking like your full podcast and running that as an ad for views?
Yeah.
So we,
we took the full podcast,
but we were only starting to experiment because what we,
we also have the five minute videos that usually,
you know,
the shorts,
they'll get,
um,
uh,
a lot more views than the long form.
Right.
podcast.
So what we're doing right now,
like as of today,
we're just playing around with the short form and seeing what happens with those that,
and the only ones that we're worried,
like if we get nothing on three or four or five of them,
that sixth one that gets the engagement,
that's the only thing we're throwing money against.
Really smart.
So yeah,
seeing what organic pieces of content get a little bit of traction,
putting money behind that for views.
It's just going to expand your audience.
And one thing for people to keep in mind,
and Kevin,
I love the way you teed this up in the intro.
YouTube is one of the most underleveraged,
untapped,
goldmine type places on the web.
The user base is massive,
from 92%
down to 80 some percent of all US consumers are on YouTube and the numbers are huge.
Number two search engine in the world.
Number two search engine as well.
Yeah,
so people are there just to consume content,
but more people conduct searches on YouTube than any other platform not named Google.
And so there's just so much interaction on the platform,
but there's so many fewer advertisers that lean into YouTube than even Meta.
There's just a ton of opportunity there.
But like Norm was saying on this experiment he's doing,
correct me if I'm wrong,
but subscribers really don't matter on YouTube.
I mean,
it matters to get to that thousand so that you can monetize.
And there's some baselines.
And it's kind of like open rates in email.
It's a vanity number.
Because I see people that are all focused on subscribers.
And to me,
I don't think subscribers matter that much as much as the engagement matters.
Because YouTube doesn't care how many subscribers you have.
They care,
like you said.
how much engage not engagement by commenting like on youtube but how much watch time and then they show them more and more and more of that so you your goal should not really in my opinion and from what i've been been reading and learning is that you shouldn't really be focusing on subscribers until
you maybe until you hit that thousand so you can monetize but after that focus on engagement first uh and that's what's going to grow you not the subscriber cut because i see channels great videos and um it it
One of the beauties of YouTube is,
I think Gary Vaynerchuk talks about this too,
is you're on a level playing ground.
In some places,
on Amazon,
there's review moats.
If you got 13,000 reviews,
you have a moat around you and someone else can be hard to compete.
On YouTube,
if you've got good engagement and you only got
1,100 subscribers,
you can compete with someone that's got 10 million subscribers.
Am I wrong on this or is that the…
You are 100%
correct in that the metric.
the metric to rule them all that youtube really cares about is watch time they've just understood that that that's how they grow consumption and time on platform and that's what shows that a user is is really interested in content is it's it's watch time and so i
wouldn't say the subscribers don't matter because yeah to your point you want to get over kind of that thousand threshold and maybe if you get someone to subscribe they're more likely to come back and we're likely to check you out but it is definitely more of a vanity metric than anything else and
So what you've got to be obsessively focused on if you're creating organic content on YouTube is how do I increase my watch time?
So how do I have that percentage or minutes?
Like there's an argument like this podcast will probably go for an hour here.
And some people,
you know,
one of the other podcasts I do,
I do for another company.
And they're like,
Kevin,
cut this.
Nobody listens to an hour.
You need to cut this.
You're talking too much.
You know,
it's too much.
You need to make it 40 minutes.
So it's.
Is that watch time metric a percentage of how much of the hour they watch?
Or if I cut it to 40 minutes and they watch the whole 40 versus they watch 40 of my 60,
which of those is better?
Yeah,
it's a really great question.
And I will preface this by saying I spend most of my time on the YouTube ads side of things.
So paid traffic.
So the sponsored ads are doing like what you did,
Norm,
to try to drive viewers through ads.
That's where I spend most of my time.
But my understanding is on the organic side,
it is more about the watch.
time.
But if it's a short video,
then someone watching the whole thing is great,
right?
But it's not just purely a percentage play.
So if someone is watching several minutes of a long video,
YouTube thinks that's great,
right?
YouTube views that as great.
I don't know exactly the cutoffs of percentages or times,
but yeah,
Google's not penalizing you,
I don't believe,
if you post an hour-long video and the average watch time is...
30 minutes or something like that,
that's still really great.
You know,
one of the things that we've learned with the Lunch with Norm podcast is that we hired a consultant.
We say,
you know,
what's going on?
What's happening with the algorithm?
The watch time,
which
I can say is constantly improving.
If there is a dip,
you know,
we try to figure that out.
But the hardest thing to market on YouTube is a long form podcast.
And I think it's because people listen to eight minutes and they cut out.
And so we address that with this consultant and he came back and he said,
number one,
forget like let's forget thumbnail and let's forget title.
It's important,
but it's addressing that topic.
The first 30 seconds,
like the second that somebody comes on,
you address it.
But the one thing that made a huge difference is what,
when are they people starting to cut off?
And then.
After your interview,
because ours is live,
and then we put out an edited version,
he says,
take that moment where you start to see the fall off and bring in another hook at what the person's saying.
And he says,
if it goes another 12 minutes,
then bring in another hook.
So every time we do it,
we have to do secondary hooks for everything.
uh knowing what the guy's going to be talking about and then we make short clips out of that as well but that's probably been one of the biggest things that we've learned uh you say the dancing girls are coming don't go anywhere we get the dancing girls coming no it's usually you kevin in a thong that comes out like that south park yeah it's safe because i can't believe it
like wait a minute is this really gonna happen yeah i mean one thing to keep in mind is you know people will consume
hour long hour and a half long two or three hour long videos look at like the all-in podcast which is one of my favorites look at Joe Rogan Joe Rogan exactly somebody's showing it's just people talking on it's just like what we're doing right here but
the the you know what they've really nailed is they just keep people's attention like it's just good radio it's good like you were on the edge of your seat the whole time it's interesting they're good transitions all that stuff so
So yeah,
I would agree with that.
Thumbnail is important and image and some of those things,
but really getting someone hooked and then not losing them throughout the process is really the key.
And the other thing too,
and
I think this even was bigger than keeping them,
I guess is conflicting with what you said with watch time,
but it's getting the watch a second video.
So that's one of the things that we're trying to.
Hey,
if you like this podcast,
make sure you check out one of these podcasts or shorts.
And as long as we can do that,
and we're just in the middle of this battle,
so working with this guy.
So
I'm trying it.
I'm not sure how that's going to work,
but he was saying that if you can get somebody to stay on and watch a second or third video,
that's better for you.
Super interesting.
Yeah,
I've heard that too.
Marley Jacks,
I think,
remember I talked to her at
Funnel Hacking Live at Norm,
and that's one of the things she was saying is to get them to recommend other videos within your channel.
The more you can get them to recommend other videos in your channel,
the more your channel will grow,
and the more the algorithm will start showing you to more and more people like that.
There's something to that,
for sure.
So you're saying that I might have a good idea,
Kev?
It's number three for the year.
So you're better than last year.
I'm giving you credit,
but not too much.
I remember to get to three.
So you're really good.
So,
Brett,
speaking of ads,
didn't YouTube change the way it used to be?
I forget the exact number.
It was the first 25 seconds you could watch.
You could run an ad,
and if they clicked off of it,
you didn't pay for it or something like that.
Then they made a switch to it.
And,
um,
or something,
is there something that still exists that little loophole or that little thing or that,
that YouTube?
Yeah.
So that,
that's still,
that's still part of the platform.
So a couple of interesting things.
One,
I love that we started this discussion by talking organic YouTube.
I think that's a long-term play.
I think there's much value in building that organic audience.
You can also leverage that audience with ads later.
So I think if you've got the capacity and the desire to do that,
do it.
What's beautiful about ads is we can go from zero to really scaling quickly if we do a lot of things right.
And so to answer your question specifically,
Kevin,
the kind of the rule of thumb there,
the new,
when I first started getting excited about YouTube,
it's when they introduced TrueView ads.
And so TrueView ads,
that's when you only pay if someone actually views the ad.
And so the way
Google looks at that is either 30 seconds of the video.
or the whole video if it's less than 30 seconds,
that's what they count as a view.
And that's important because if you look at other platforms like Meta as an example,
it's often like three seconds is what they count as a view.
Whereas on YouTube,
it's a view if they're spending
30 seconds or more if it's a long video or the whole video if it's shorter than that.
There are a couple of exceptions.
So let's say I'm running,
if I'm running a view-based campaign,
that holds true.
If I'm running a conversion-focused campaign,
so I'm running...
demand gen or something like that where i'm saying to google hey get me people who will click and sign up for this webinar or click and buy my product or click and get a coupon something like that and and i want to get my cpa my cost per acquisition to fifty dollars or hundred dollars or whatever the case may be um
if you run those conversion focus campaigns if someone clicks on the ad before you know at any point in time that counts as a view
Or if they leave within 10 seconds,
but then they do convert,
Google will count that as well.
So they'll kind of track it a few different ways,
a click or a view,
or if they convert after watching at least 10 seconds,
and that also counts as well.
But if they skip and they don't click,
they don't convert,
and it's under
30 seconds or shorter than the whole video,
if it's shorter than that,
then that does not count.
Hey,
what's up everybody?
Kevin and Norm here with a quick word from one of our sponsors,
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So if I want to monetize my video,
our podcast,
I mean,
we have sponsors that we come in,
but as a creator on the ad side,
we'll talk about the other side in a second.
But as a creator,
you can put little markers in your YouTube video.
You can actually say,
I want to run,
there's a term for it in YouTube land of.
some sort of little like markers where you can actually either add spots and either if you don't fill them it just continues going if you fill them it does an interruption or something uh and is there a certain science to that or certain numbers you'd have or how often you paste those or anything yeah that's a great question that's something that i don't have a ton of experience with so i can't i can't really give give any insights on on on that one i i know a
number of creators who will do live reads you know within their
YouTube episodes and that's been a really successful form of advertising.
So in fact,
I did a podcast.
Do you guys know The Ridge or Ridge Wallets?
Oh,
yeah.
I did a podcast with Sean Frank,
CEO of Ridge Wallets.
This was episode 138 of my podcast.
And he talked about how in the early years of scale for
Ridge Wallets,
what they did is they just reached out to creators on YouTube.
So top Fortnite creators or outdoor gear creators or whatever.
Yeah.
And they basically just said,
hey,
create a live read within your video about Ridge Wallets.
We'll either pay you a flat fee or a commission.
They kind of did a variety of things.
And to your point,
you made it during the intro,
Kevin.
The cool thing about those videos is some of them get better over time.
So they may be getting more views a year from now than they are today.
And then they just keep going and going and going.
Whereas like TikTok or Instagram can be wildly viral,
but it's usually just a few days or a week or something.
And then they die.
So you've got that opportunity,
which people can lean into on YouTube,
which is somewhat untapped.
So if you're a creator,
I would look at those opportunities.
And there are big brands that will get involved with you in that regard.
But in terms of creating the markers for where ads pop up,
I don't have really any data on that.
So are you using like BidIQ to actually target other people?
Or what are you using to actually for your clients to go in and actually...
how are you doing the targeting like where do you want to show up on other youtube ads for your clients like made it like native that's a that's a that's a deodorant uh and so how are you where are you going to actually reach the audience that's going to buy native is this uh
tree huggers uh or i mean what that are watching you know some um video about uh camping in the woods and that's the kind of thing they would want or what what how do you find your audiences uh
your avatars that you want to advertise to?
It's a great question.
And so that's another area that's a little bit different on YouTube than it is on the platforms,
the ability to target exactly who you want to reach on YouTube.
But I also recommend kind of giving the algorithm freedom to explore and to expand beyond what you think is your ideal audience.
And so whether we're running a campaign for native,
which again,
we saw them grow from a hundred million to a billion in sales or Arctic.
coolers.
We saw that we did a big campaign for them that the YouTube turned into a case study where we drove traffic to Walmart stores.
So they're in Walmart's nationwide.
They wanted to see if they could lift in-store sales with YouTube.
We did.
Pretty remarkable.
It was like from 12%
measurable lift to 48%
measurable lift,
kind of depending on the market we were looking at,
but pretty phenomenal.
And so it kind of starts in a couple of ways.
You can do interest-based targeting.
You can do behavioral targeting.
So as an example,
on the behavioral side,
there are in-market audiences.
So
I believe nobody knows more about what you're about to buy or what you have bought than Google or Amazon.
Google and Amazon know your entire purchase history.
They know what you're shopping for right now.
So these in-market audiences,
there's some off-the-shelf audiences where you can just select these as you're building your campaign.
And they can be broad like travel.
I'm in the market for travel,
or it could be
I'm in the market for a luxury cruise,
or I'm in the market for a luxury European cruise or something like that.
And so you can be pretty specific on those in-market audiences.
And basically what Google's doing there is they're looking at like a two-week window of what is
Kevin searching for online and what in-market audience am I going to put him in?
So is it like,
is it a humidor?
Is it best jacket for smoking so that I look really cool when my buddy Norm is there with me?
Actually,
I don't think they have tobacco-based audiences.
But anyway,
just leaning into what you guys were talking about before.
But you can lean into these or you can select these in-market audiences based on someone's Google behavior or based on their online behavior.
What I love the most,
though,
the audiences that we lean into first are what are called custom segments.
And this is where you can get creative and you can tell Google,
hey,
I want to build an audience of people.
who've searched for these keywords on Google and or on YouTube.
Build me an audience of those people,
right?
So on the native side of things,
we'd build an audience that's,
hey,
people looking for aluminum-free deodorant or natural deodorant or vegan deodorant.
There's some things that they don't necessarily qualify for,
but that would still be the right category.
Or if it's Arctic coolers,
maybe I'm just looking for people that are like best cooler for...
pulling behind my four-wheeler or best cooler for cold temperatures or whatever so i could build this massive list of keywords and basically then google is going to create a custom audience for me this audience of people that have searched for those things on on google or on youtube and now i can show them my youtube ad starting
here can you do it with websites too like websites this is a certain website they you know if i'm targeting uh i don't know amazon sellers and they visited sellercentral.amazon.com
And can you build an audience based around websites visits?
Yeah,
it's another,
that's another great custom segment where you can give Google,
yeah.
The,
the,
these signals of,
Hey,
I want an audience of people like those that visit these websites.
Now what Google doesn't do is they don't just build an audience of people that have visited those sites,
right?
They can't.
So I have as an example,
you can't like take your competitors URL and say,
Hey,
build me an audience of just my competitors,
customers.
You can't do that,
but you can still use that as a signal.
And Google knows the type of person that visits those websites,
and they know who visits those websites.
So it's close.
It's basically
Google taking those inputs of those websites and building a lookalike audience around it.
But we're confident part of that audience is actually some of the people that do visit those web pages.
So what about the average dollar value?
order value of your the products that you're selling.
I know on Facebook it's kind of useless unless you're at least 30 to $50 to do any form of advertising.
Yeah,
you're talking about a product that is an underarm deodorant or something similar that,
you know,
does that does that work?
Or does it have to be like the Arctic cooler where it's,
you know,
a lot more money?
Yeah,
it's a really great question.
So it depends on a number of factors.
And actually,
there was this amazing study that just came out that I highly recommend.
I'll give you guys the link so you can link to it.
It's free,
but it's done by House Analytics.
And basically,
they're an incrementality testing company.
You guys familiar with incrementality?
Are you hearing that a lot?
It's kind of one of the buzzwords.
Yeah,
go ahead and explain it for the audience.
Yeah,
sure.
So incrementality is basically looking at net new customers or customers you would not have gotten otherwise.
So I'll give you an example.
We see a lot of brands where they lean in heavily to meta ads,
but for whatever reason,
they maybe need to pause it or they stop for a little while and they turn off meta ads and then everything else stops working.
They don't get customers on Google branded search and they don't get customers on
Amazon like they did.
So meta is very incremental.
You turn it off,
you lose sales.
Branded search,
and I would say branded search on both
Amazon. So Amazon sponsored products,
putting on your own brand or branded search on Google.
If you were to turn that off,
sales might go down a little.
You'd probably lose something,
but sales wouldn't plummet,
right?
So that's not very incremental.
So it's not driving net new customers.
So what House Analytics did is that they did some studies that really confirmed what we've seen anecdotally,
what we've observed in our tests.
But they did 190 incremental ad studies.
And they basically do like geo holdouts where they'll have...
And this is what we did for Arctic too.
where you've got test market control market but they're similar in all regards other than one gets youtube the other doesn't and then you compare the behavior in those two markets so anyway uh house did 190 of these tests here's what they found
They found that YouTube ads are
3.42x more incremental than what is reported in a platform.
Meaning,
you get a one row as in platform,
you're looking in YouTube and you got a one return on ad spend.
It's probably like a three to four and a half return on ad spend if you saw the true impact.
Meaning,
there's a lot of people that did not click on that ad,
but they circled back and they purchased.
Now,
that's just if you're D2C.
If you add in marketplace somewhere else and they,
that one gets the attribution when it was really YouTube that sparked it.
Exactly.
Or yeah,
they saw it on YouTube and then they didn't do anything else,
but then they clicked on a branded ad because they searched for you.
Branded ad gets all the credit.
It did nothing other than just like walk someone in the door type of thing,
or it did very little,
I should say.
So yeah,
exactly.
And so it gets even better though,
if you're on marketplace and or retail stores,
so you can add another.
99 or 0.9 ROAS to that if you're selling on Amazon.
So on Amazon,
maybe it's four and a half or five return on ad spend,
but all you're seeing is a one in platform.
And they did this over 190 different advertisers.
And so and we saw this for a large haircare brand that we worked with.
They were DTC and Amazon.
We ran both their YouTube and their full channel Amazon.
We had to pause YouTube for they're spending a lot.
There's like a million dollars a month on YouTube,
but
We had to pause their YouTube for a little while.
When we did,
branded search on Amazon got cut in half.
So went down by half.
So just kind of shows the impact that has.
So
YouTube is very incremental.
It does have a big impact in all channels.
And so you've got to kind of be aware of that,
that you need to be looking at these other impacts.
How is YouTube driving branded search?
How is YouTube driving traffic?
to Amazon is YouTube driving traffic to retail stores and look at that holistically to really understand what is YouTube doing.
I'm not sure I actually answered your original question now that
I got on that tirade.
I'm not sure if I circled that back to your original question there guys,
but happy to keep going.
What are the different types of paid ads that you can get on YouTube now?
Yeah.
So there's a variety.
There's...
In kind of larger,
broad strokes,
there's what's called in-stream.
And so that's where these are the skippable ads that pop up kind of before a video or in the middle of a video.
That goes back to what you were talking about,
Kevin,
with kind of the ads playing in the middle of a creator's video.
So that's in-stream.
There's in-feed.
And in-feed is more,
these are the ads that pop up in search results or that are displayed that you have to click on to watch.
And so those you only pay if someone clicks on it and starts to watch it.
The in-stream ads,
you know,
kind of falls back to those rules that I was talking about before.
So those are the main categories.
And then in terms of the placements,
you've got ads that show up in the mobile feed.
So this is kind of confusing because it's called the mobile feed.
It's still an in-stream ad.
But the mobile homepage,
right?
So if you're on YouTube,
and I'll pull this up and see if we can get a bit of a live demo.
But if I'm looking here on my...
My YouTube.
So I've got,
you know,
some football news there.
I'm a Colin Cowherd fan.
But then above that,
that autoplay,
it's Upwork.
So like,
you know,
we sometimes hire people from Upwork.
So that's popping up there.
That's an in-stream ad.
It's autoplaying there.
And so there's ads there.
Then there are ads that run pre-roll or mid-roll in the video you're watching.
And then,
you know,
you've got mobile,
desktop,
tablet,
and then connected TVs.
And you can kind of select those by excluding the channels that you do or the placements that you don't want.
But the two fastest growing channels are shorts or platforms,
shorts and connected TVs.
So those are the areas that are growing the fastest.
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YouTube has this new thing with shorts where they're integrating some AI.
So you can do AI-generated shorts,
right?
Yeah.
I mean,
the cool thing about Google is,
you know,
people are pretty excited about it in the SEO world.
Yeah.
I mean,
Google said,
what was it,
over a couple years ago,
that,
hey,
we're in AI first.
company now and they've been really leaning the eye for much longer than that so i don't know that specific piece of ai tied to shorts but uh i mean ai is influencing everything and video consumption video creation video ads all being really
transformed by ai no doubt you know we were um we were doing shorts and we would go over to hey gen and we get them translated and it was starting to cost a little bit of money and then uh
Google or YouTube rolled this out and it's not for everybody,
but it's the translations.
So if you're sitting there like we are today talking,
it'll translate depending on your IP,
like French,
German,
whatever it is,
and it's using your voice just like HeyGen would.
And it brings out a transcript,
whatever language you're talking to.
even translates canadian us all uh yeah um but not not for long because uh we are going to be the first time yeah they're changing that take it away when you've been in the first state yeah english is the official language of the u.s that's
true so good yeah and i mean that's in the look that stuff's all going to just keep getting better like hey jen is really awesome i got some friends in the infomercial space and they'll create a video and then launch it in you know germany and and and uh
uh other martin italy and stuff like that and and so that the translation is brilliant google's getting better at that i mean it's it's really remarkable and and the pace at which it's getting better is is also remarkable how are you seeing speaking of the infomercial how are you seeing i studied that world for a long time and came from that a little bit of that world and
you know i think you said you did a little bit of that too how are you seeing that how's that migrated to youtube how's that migrated to video are people doing
30 seconds 60 second two minute
30 minute direct response type of stuff on youtube or is it a whole different animal now and a whole different a way of uh driving sales for physical yeah yeah i mean more people should be doing that so i think the the most direct correlation
or the the best analogy of youtube ads is short form direct response tv so give an example uh
Karen Eek was a client of ours for a number of years.
It's a hair regrowth product for women.
And they were running direct response TV ads.
They did infomercials as well.
They were doing meta.
All of that was working.
They could not get YouTube to work.
So basically what we did for them is we took their direct response
TV ads.
So there were some that were like two minutes,
some that were three minutes long.
We tweaked them.
So the hook had to be different than what they were for TV.
We had to get right to the point quickly.
But once we had that edited,
then we were able to really scale on
YouTube. And so
I think that more people...
And if you have a product that sells on TV,
or you've run infomercials,
then YouTube will absolutely work for you if you get the creative right and the targeting around the campaign structure right and all those things.
But yeah,
I think that's the best direct correlation or connection or analogy or whatever is direct response TV.
Very similar to YouTube.
The exception is
YouTube Shorts.
YouTube Shorts is more like TikTok or Instagram Reels or Facebook Stories or whatever.
But everything else is more like
Direct Response TV on YouTube.
You know,
my son and his girlfriend came down and we were out.
I was having a cigar and they were showing me this short.
And they said,
take a look at this.
How many views do you think it has?
And I looked at it,
and it was like this massive audience,
this guy talking,
and he's talking about,
you probably have seen this.
They're talking about this new car polish that's better than ceramic polish.
And he sprays it on this Porsche,
wipes it off in a second.
And it's a major audience.
And so my son's girlfriend says,
how many views do you think this has?
I go,
I don't know.
you know,
a million,
she goes 50 million.
Wow.
And she goes,
Oh,
that's just their,
their first video.
And she went through the videos that they did on YouTube.
And I'm sitting here going,
how much money are they making off of this?
But it was just,
it was all,
by the way,
Kevin,
it was 100%,
100%
AI.
And I couldn't tell the difference.
I'm looking at it going,
there's got to be something.
There's got to be something I can see here.
But it looks like there's,
you know,
this spokesman,
really energetic,
talking about this thing.
I mean,
I would have bought this stuff.
I probably will.
But,
yeah,
it just,
again,
we don't know how far it's going to go.
It's only going to improve.
But.
the amount of views that you can get off of a short and then off of the regular videos if you want to produce it before you buy it are you sure it works on pentos 1977 it works on range rovers but i know what you think about range rovers wait
what is i want i want to talk about this category because i know this category intimately but uh what's your perspective on range rovers kevin are you not not a fan he thinks they suck
but no i don't think they suck they look amazing but i have heard they end up in the shop a decent amount so i don't know what's true i can tell you for sure what they do uh yeah hey man i'm a toyota tundra fan that's that's that's my that's my rig and uh indestructible so i love that but um
so yeah interesting story we worked with a big brand in that space so not a ceramic coating not a wax just kind of in between you
And we ran all their YouTube and Google and we scaled them massively back in the day.
And so it's one of those things where those products have high lifetime value.
Conversion rates were pretty good.
This was all like YouTube direct response YouTube that we leaned into quite heavily.
And here's my take on
AI, like fully AI generated content.
I got to say,
I'm not a fan of if you take fully AI content.
So the spokesperson,
the voiceover,
all that fully AI,
I'm not really a fan.
I think there needs to be something that's unique there.
So what I do like AI for is if you got,
let's say,
some real customers giving a testimonial,
but you want to edit that in a fun way.
And then maybe you need like a voiceover to kind of stitch it all together.
And then you need some cool product shots and some other things to bring in.
Let's use AI to do that.
Let's use AI to make all of that easier.
We've created some 100%
AI content.
No,
it actually wasn't 100%
AI content.
What we did is we took actual product shots and then created some AI content for sponsor brand video and stuff on Amazon.
But I'm just not a fan of the fully AI influencer.
That's me.
I prefer getting real customers there.
But use AI to lift the load of editing or lift the load of voiceover talent or something like that.
The technology is not quite there.
I think it's getting...
get there.
But I think humans are always going to be able to have something that's just not going to feel right.
You got to see,
I'll send over,
I'll try to get that video.
It blew me away.
And it was so energetic and the energy was there.
And
I sit here with my wife and go,
you know,
oh,
that's crap.
That's AI.
But
I couldn't tell with this,
but I want to get your opinion on something.
So you
My son and his girlfriend came back from LA.
They went to this conference about for creators and newsletters.
And
I was shocked.
I was surprised when they told me that people now they'll watch,
but they're going to hold back just like giving up your email for newsletter.
People are doing that for subscribing and following on social media.
Are you finding that,
that,
you know,
people aren't going to.
just subscribe to a channel or follow you on social?
Yeah,
it's a great question.
And it does not surprise me at all,
right?
The people are less likely to opt in to email lists,
although email is still a huge part of what we do,
a huge part of what our brands do.
And kind of a similar approach of,
yeah,
I don't really want to subscribe either.
So I think the good news though there is it totally ties back to what we were talking about before.
It's not that important.
You just got to create great content.
And I think that's the lesson for anybody creating content,
whether it's for YouTube or Meta or TikTok or whatever,
is that it's a relentless focus on great content.
I've got to keep cranking out great content.
Content that has a great hook.
Content that has a good product demo.
Content that's got good social proof.
Content that's got some kind of call to action or some kind of ask associated with it.
Content that keeps someone's attention.
So it's got fast paced,
fast edits,
things like that.
So just a relentless focus on good content.
And then the rest,
kind of the algorithm will reward you for that.
And your consumers will too.
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it takes time to build that up i think mr b said he did a hundred plus videos before he had any kind of traction whatsoever i'm just getting refining the craft getting better and better and better
and adding all those little elements that you said to where now he's got a formula that that he can just crank it out crank it out and man his videos are so good we were watching some of those as a family my younger kids or my younger teenagers and and stuff they were like you got to watch these mr beast videos and we sat down for like an hour but they were so good like it just either hooks you and you keep wanting to
watch and so it really is a matter of we call it a creative feedback loop so if you're running ads we want to look at different metrics in that ad and in the ad consumption to let us know
Is the hook right?
Was the product demo right?
Was there a good clear call to action?
And so,
we're looking at things like view rate,
we're looking at where people are skipping,
we're looking at click-through rate compared to other videos.
So,
as an example,
if a video has got a really good view rate,
so people are engaged with it,
they're watching it,
then that shows us that hook was pretty good and probably we're targeting the right person.
But then if the click-through rate is well below average for that brand,
we're like,
okay,
we got to fix the call to action,
right?
Or maybe the
the product demo fell a little bit short.
So someone doesn't want to click on the ad.
So how do we fix that?
So unless we did for,
for Arctic,
we would that super successful campaign that,
and now we run all their,
all their Google and YouTube.
But so we're constantly doing is looking at,
Hey,
this let's look at all these videos for the same product.
We can analyze what's got the best hook.
What's got the best product demo.
What's got the best offer,
best call to action.
And then you're just constantly iterating the next round of videos from that.
What do you find works best in the ads?
Based on what you said,
it sounds like there's three,
maybe there's a few more,
but three core ways you can target.
It's either keyword or intent-based targeting.
It's target-based targeting or it's targeting specific videos in particular.
Like I want my ad to show up on these 27 competitors'
videos or whatever it may be.
Am I missing something in that?
Or is there another major way?
And if so,
what is it?
And which one of those do you find typically works the best for certain types of products?
A certain type of product work better for one of those than the other?
Or what do you find?
Or you just got to experiment with them all?
So you do need to experiment a little bit.
One thing that I would not recommend,
and I know some people that
I'm not a meta ads guy,
but I know people that lean into meta that just say open targeting,
right?
Let the algorithm figure it out.
It'll figure it out.
Just leave it open.
With YouTube,
we find better results if we focus and target the algorithm.
By far,
the best audiences to start with.
are those custom segments where you're giving Google search terms or keywords.
So people that search for these things,
build an audience around them,
target them.
Best place to start.
Not always the best place to scale.
So let me hit a ceiling there and it doesn't fully scale.
That's my number one.
My number two would be giving Google URLs of sites to kind of build a lookalike audience.
That's kind of number two.
Number three is,
and you can do this now in demand gen,
and demand gen is a new campaign type and you can lean into video only on that.
But you can create true lookalike audiences.
So just like you can on Meta,
you could upload a list of your customers and say,
build me a lookalike audience.
And so those are really good.
There's another option that's available in a variety of different YouTube ad formats,
which is called optimized targeting.
And so we've done here,
similar thing where we'll upload a list of customers.
This is my list of
VIP customers for my product.
upload that to the Google Ads platform,
and then turn on optimized targeting.
And basically what Google is doing is they're saying,
okay,
this is who our core of targeting,
but then we're going to expand that and find other people like this.
So we found some campaigns that really scaled that way as well.
So those are the best.
Some of the kind of what I call off the shelf Google audiences,
like in market audiences,
affinity audiences,
things like that.
They can work,
I would say half the time or less.
Those are winning audiences,
usually less.
So we can test that as well.
But
I want to start with those three,
the custom segments based on search terms,
based on URL,
and then the lookalike audiences of sorts.
Then once you really scale,
so we've done this with a hair care brand or with CPG brands.
After a while and after there's a ton of data in the account,
then you can open it up and just be like,
hey,
people 25 to 54 or females 35 to 65 or whatever.
Because then the algorithm kind of knows who your shopper is.
But in the beginning,
I definitely want to focus and target.
Can we talk about,
and we're getting to the top of the hour,
but mistakes.
What are some of the mistakes that brands are doing?
Yeah,
great question.
So one of the biggest mistakes is on the creative side.
So they're not understanding the creative requirements and what makes for a great YouTube ad.
Very rarely can you take an ad exactly from Meta or certainly from TikTok or Instagram and run that just like it is on
YouTube. The exception being YouTube Shorts.
It can often translate directly to YouTube Shorts.
But YouTube Shorts isn't the most effective part of YouTube and it's certainly not where there's the most scale.
And so,
you know,
what you got to keep in mind there for YouTube is generally speaking,
we like ads that are 45 seconds up to about three minutes long.
So you got to remember with YouTube,
the ad does all the heavy lifting.
There's no really other text or other things to look at.
You're not seeing much of the social proof like you're seeing,
you know,
with clicks and likes and comments and stuff like that.
So the video has to do all the work.
So it's got to be a little bit longer.
It's got to have a clear hook,
clear product demo,
clear social proof,
clear call to action.
It's got to have those elements.
So the biggest mistake is the creative.
They take a
15 second ad that works on meta,
try to run it on YouTube,
and then they're disappointed.
So that's number one.
The second part is not understanding measurement,
right?
It's not understanding that
YouTube really isn't a click-based platform,
right?
So if you're just looking at click-based conversions,
direct conversions,
you're gonna be disappointed almost without question.
There are some exceptions,
but almost without question,
you're gonna be disappointed.
And understanding that the real impact of YouTube is part direct conversions,
part search lift,
so more people searching for your brand,
part
lift on other channels like
Amazon and retail stores if you're there.
And then it's a lift in direct unattributed sales to your .com.
And so the number two biggest issue is not measuring it properly.
Because if you don't measure it properly,
you're going to make mistakes in optimization and things like that.
And then the third mistake is just not really understanding how to set up the campaign.
So it goes back to what we were talking about before.
It's audience targeting.
It's getting the right mix of view campaigns and conversion campaigns.
And really giving them kind of enough runway and enough budget to kind of get them going.
You don't have to spend millions of dollars in testing,
but you do have to give it enough time to kind of see the results.
Hey,
Kevin King and Norm Farrar here.
If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits,
thanks for listening this far.
Continue listening.
We've got some more valuable stuff coming up.
Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite.
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or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify,
make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of the Marketing Misfits.
Have you subscribed yet,
Norm?
Well,
this is an old guy alert.
Should I subscribe to my own podcast?
Yeah,
but what if you forget to show up one time and it's just me on here?
You're not going to know what I say.
I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair too.
You can go back and forth with one another.
Yikes!
That being said,
don't forget to subscribe,
share it.
Oh,
and if you really like this content,
somewhere up there,
there's a banner.
Click on it and you'll go to another episode of the Marketing Misfits.
Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm.
All right.
So now,
K-squared,
any question?
No,
I think we could keep going for a while.
Yeah,
absolutely.
I think this has been helpful.
This has been great,
Brett.
Appreciate it.
Awesome.
Thanks,
fellas.
Always good to hang with you guys.
And I love talking marketing and talking YouTube.
I could just keep going and going.
So this is fun.
Well,
people want to know more about what your company does and the performance marketing and all that stuff.
Is it omgcommerce.com or what's the best way to follow the shop?
Yeah,
omgcommerce.com.
I'm also on LinkedIn.
So I post pretty regularly on LinkedIn,
Brett Curry on LinkedIn.
But yeah,
we've got a full service Amazon department.
So if you need help with Amazon growth,
we can certainly chat.
We got retention marketing,
email and SMS.
And then of course,
like we talked about today,
Google and YouTube.
And those are generally,
you know,
whether you're an Amazon first brand or an omni-channel brand,
a lot of people just aren't leveraging Google or YouTube the way that they should.
And so
Yeah,
happy to chat.
I've got some free resources on how to run YouTube ads and examples of winning YouTube ads.
And I'm happy to give you guys a link to that you can share with your audience and you can get that on the website as well.
And then happy to do a free strategic session with you to talk how YouTube can work for your brand.
Does that count for us?
We've only said an hour,
Norm.
okay hey anytime anytime the misfits want to talk youtube i'm ready ready for a free strategy session for you guys for fantastic now i have one last question for you sure when well at the end of every podcast we like to ask our misfit if
they know a misfit yeah so uh man one guy that i think you guys should definitely talk to is a guy named jordan west he runs a podcast called scaling my e-commerce
brand um but he's big in the tick tock shops and that's one of those things where you know he and he even mentioned this like tick tock and amazon man they go together well and so jordan west would be the misfit that i would recommend to you guys all right fantastic okay
i think that wraps it up what would you say kev that's been good uh always like talking uh alternative channels and youtube like you said i think is uh
the untapped gold mine right now that a lot of people are sleeping on.
Stop sleeping on YouTube.
Yep.
I agree.
Double down.
And that's what we're doing here at the Misfits.
And Norm and I are doing in our company is we had this discussion like a month ago.
I was like,
we need to forget all this other,
not forget,
but de-emphasize a lot of this other stuff and like really double down hard on YouTube.
And that's,
that's what we're doing.
That's as Norm has said with the test,
he's already started.
Love it.
Awesome.
Well,
thanks so much,
fellas.
Really enjoyed it.
All right.
We'll talk to you soon.
Thank you.
Thanks.
There,
I just did my job.
Look at that.
I know you hit the button.
You didn't have to like get used to it.
Which one is it?
You,
you,
you got it.
You know,
you're getting even smarter as you age stream deck.
That's what it is.
It's just that button.
I have one of those stream decks right,
right,
right here.
and i haven't even set it up yet it's just sitting here hey i know you too well i can be cool like you and i can like hit buttons and and have alternate angles and everything yeah i know you so well mr king like you i know you have a computer a new mac computer still sitting in a box from you
know whatever a humidor just sitting there i mean you've got so many things that you buy and put it this way
You are the premium high-end hoarder.
You've got all these incredible $1,000 robots kicking around.
And it's never once,
that robot has never once asked me for a drink.
Do you know what,
though,
that's cool,
though,
that I just thought,
speaking of?
So you know how sometimes a box will show up,
like this just happened with you?
Actually,
you know what?
I'll tell this on the next podcast.
It's a good opening story.
We'll save that for it.
So that's our open loop.
That's our hook.
I've got a great story that you're going to really love,
Norm,
that
I'll share on next week's podcast.
So if you like what we're talking about here on the Marketing Misfits,
make sure you go back and check out the channel.
We're almost a year old now.
So we're coming up on about 50 episodes.
We don't have 300 or whatever Brett said he's got yet,
but we'll get there.
We'll get there one of these days.
Um,
but go back and check out some of the other episodes.
There's some awesome content in there.
And,
you know,
sometimes
I need to go back and actually just like review them ourselves.
We're on them live,
but sometimes I'm taking some notes.
Like I took a note on some couple of things that Brett said,
but just to go back and like,
listen to them and read the transcript,
uh,
is valuable.
And pretty soon we're going to have something for all of you.
That's right.
It's the marketing misfits newsletter.
So we're going to actually be taking a lot of this content and expanding on it and actually some other stuff.
We'll be able to get a weekly newsletter from the marketing misfits with some cool stuff.
So watch for that announcement coming soon.
It's going to be really,
really cool.
Don't you agree,
Norm?
It's so new that I don't even know about it.
Your picture is just right there on the front of it.
All right.
Okay.
Oh,
people.
And we're just you're just the mannequin at the front.
Right,
right,
right.
Of course.
But I'm so glad to hear,
and this is at the end of this podcast,
but that you put my picture back up.
That's good.
Thank you.
Even
I scratched out your eyes.
Yeah.
You know,
in some of the Arab countries where they scratch out the eyes of the Christians,
I had a guy come back out and put your eyes back for you too.
Good.
And not on the dartboard anymore,
huh?
Not on the dartboard anymore.
Okay,
very good.
All right.
That's the end of this.
podcast.
So make sure you subscribe.
Make sure you check out the rest on this channel or if you're listening on Apple Podcast or Spotify,
check out some of the other episodes too.
Hit that subscribe button and you can leave us a comment down at the bottom.
Tell us what you think.
Tell me if Norm was too mean to me this time or if I need to be meaner to Norm.
So that next episode
I can get even.
All right.
Very good.
All right,
everybody.
Oh,
and where can people find our podcast?
They can just look for marketingmisfits.co.
See,
I'm learning.
I'm getting smarter in my old age,
too.
Absolutely.
Marketingmisfits.co,
not .com,
but .co.
You can always find the latest and greatest right there.
All right,
fantastic.
All right,
everybody,
we will see you next week.
Peace.
And