WEBVTT

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seven out of 10 times,

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action is going to be a better thing.

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Default aggressive,

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taking action,

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making things happen.

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Things aren't going to occur in the world the way you want them to be by chance.

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They're just not.

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The things that you want to have happen in the world aren't going to happen by their own.

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Very few of them will be.

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If you sit around every day with your plate out waiting for a good deal to come onto your plate,

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it ain't going to happen.

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You need to go and make things happen in the world.

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When people get emotional about things,

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people lose their temper,

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which I haven't.

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The running joke with me is I only lose my temper with my printer or copying machines,

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right?

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That's the one thing that matters because printers and copying machines are evil.

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But I almost never have to admit that I'm wrong.

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And the reason I almost never have to admit that I'm wrong is I almost never put a flagpole in the ground and tell people I'm 100%

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right about this.

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I never say that.

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There are so few things in the world that I say,

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you know what,

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Will?

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I'm right about this.

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We should do it.

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I never say that.

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because how can I know what the future is going to bring?

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Raw,

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uncut,

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and unapologetic.

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Welcome to Men Talking Mindfulness.

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How do you stay disciplined and present?

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Today,

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we're going to sit down with fellow retired Navy SEAL,

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leadership expert,

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and entrepreneur Jocko Willink to talk about what it really means to take ownership of your life and find freedom through discipline.

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Jocko,

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welcome to the show,

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brother.

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Thanks for having me on.

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Appreciate it.

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All right,

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man.

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pumped to have you here with us today.

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And I know our audience has been looking forward to this.

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Will,

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brother,

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good to see you too,

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my man.

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Yeah,

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it's good to be here.

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I was posting on,

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I just like,

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we're bringing Jocko on the show today and people are already like freaking out.

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So good to have you here,

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Jocko.

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Thank you.

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And hey,

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and you know,

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we have a new sponsor in the show,

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so if you're curious about,

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you know,

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then check out our new sponsor,

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And to learn more about that,

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just head to mentalkingmindfulness.com.

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And we do our like,

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we do a grounding practice,

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Jaco,

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to start.

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We just do like one breath just to kind of get in touch with the inside,

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get in touch with the moment,

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detach,

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you know,

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from all the excitement we have.

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And,

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you know,

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we're going to get into you and meditation a little bit later.

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But don't.

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just stay with us for this one and just we're gonna close the eyes for a moment if you like and just take a nice little exhale all the way out push all the breath out empty empty empty we'll take one big a giant inhale through the nose a

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little bit more keep going big breath hold for just a moment and then gently let it go

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Awesome.

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And hey,

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thank you everybody for tuning in.

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Thanks for being here.

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Leave a comment,

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leave a review.

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And

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Jocko Willink,

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everybody.

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John.

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All right.

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Yeah,

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let's jump in.

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So,

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yeah,

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Jocko,

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when people hear that phrase that has become somewhat associated with you,

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discipline equals freedom,

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you know,

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it really pumps them up,

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fires them up.

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But for someone who's never really lived that way,

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never lived that disciplined life,

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what would you tell them that actually means?

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in real life?

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I think in real life,

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it kind of means what it says.

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And that is,

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if you have more discipline in your life,

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you'll end up with more freedom in your life.

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And if you lack discipline in your life,

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you will end up with less freedom.

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So

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I kind of broke down since I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed to three words,

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which is discipline equals freedom.

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So that's kind of what it means.

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And if you want to have more free time,

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then you should have more disciplined time management.

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And if you want to have financial freedom,

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then you should have better financial discipline.

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And if you want to have physical freedom,

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then you need to have more physical freedom or more physical discipline.

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So I think it just applies to every aspect of,

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of your life.

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And I think it's a pretty good,

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pretty good thing to keep front of mind.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I'm sure you've got people who have something like that tattooed after reading some of your books,

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you know,

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have it tattooed on their forearm or something.

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There's quite a few discipline equals freedom tactics.

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I bet.

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I bet,

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man.

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Well,

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you know,

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with that,

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there's this growing conversation about balancing that intensity,

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right?

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You're clearly an intense individual,

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but balancing that intensity with presence.

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For you,

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how do you navigate the tension between being so driven,

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being relentlessly driven,

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and then being grounded in the moment?

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So when you say,

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are these things mutually exclusive?

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No,

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actually,

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yeah,

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I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

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I don't necessarily think they are.

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Yeah,

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I don't really feel like

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I am wandering around in some alternate world where I'm not.

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I feel like I'm pretty much here and I feel like I'm present.

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in the moment doing what I'm doing very often.

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I mean,

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occasionally you think about the future.

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Occasionally if you think about the past,

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but

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I'm actually,

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you know,

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I pretty much here.

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Yeah.

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I mean,

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you seem to see,

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you seem to be very present in this conversation.

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So yeah,

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I think,

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I think that's a great point now,

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now that you flipped that back on us.

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Yeah.

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They're,

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they're not,

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they're not mutually exclusive.

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You can be present and intense.

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So thank you for that.

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Will.

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No,

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I,

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I,

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I,

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I'm a,

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I'm.

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I'm a 4.30 in the morning guy as well,

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Jocko.

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And that's been a big part of your life and your success.

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And that's part of that discipline.

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It also has a consistency element,

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which is really important as far as just getting after it and just kicking ass and actually obtaining some really success and results.

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What is it about starting your day on your terms and also so early that really helps you continually move forward?

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Well,

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it's just getting up when no one else can really bother you.

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So if you get up before everyone else,

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you don't have any emails,

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you don't have any texts,

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your kids are all asleep,

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there's no homework that you need to review.

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If the hot water heater is broken,

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no one knows it yet,

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so you don't have to worry about it.

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And,

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you know,

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this was something that I adopted,

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you know,

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not being the smartest guy,

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not being the strongest guy,

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not being the fastest guy in the SEAL teams when you're surrounded by a bunch of guys that have a bunch of really good attributes.

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And I kind of had to just work a little bit harder.

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And one of the times that I could find to work a little bit harder was just coming to work before anyone else.

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And or at least before myself,

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my roommate at the time,

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who was my roommate for a very long time.

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And then the master chief,

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who's old Vietnam master chief,

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who we always tried to get to work before him.

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And we eventually pulled it off.

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But yeah,

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you know,

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just get to work early,

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get a good head start on the day.

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and if you want to get a workout in before the team PT or if you want to

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prep your gear or you want to review some radios or get radios prepped or just anything that I was doing when I was a young guy,

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just getting it done before work was very beneficial.

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And then once,

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of course,

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once I had a family,

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then getting up,

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you know,

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I want to,

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on a

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Saturday, I want to spend time with my wife and kids.

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So

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I don't want to be working out myself when my wife and kids are awake.

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So I would just get up before them and work out.

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And then when they'd wake up,

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we'd do,

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I'd do a workout with them,

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but that's fun,

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you know?

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So just getting up and just,

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um,

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taking advantage of time where you don't have to worry about anybody else and you can do what you got to do and,

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and handle things that,

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you know,

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are pretty easy to push off to the next day.

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You know,

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it's very easy to push off.

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If you've got something that if you've got anything,

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that's a long-term strategic project in life,

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you know,

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whether it's,

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I guess one of,

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one of them would be health.

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The other one would be writing a book,

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right?

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Writing a book takes probably about,

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it takes quite a few hours to write a book.

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And since it's a long-term project,

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it's the kind of thing you kind of have to,

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at least my personality,

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I like to chip away at it.

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And it's really easy to say,

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well,

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you know,

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00:08:19.475 --> 00:08:20.335
I'll just write it tomorrow.

278
00:08:21.176 --> 00:08:21.956
I'll just write it tomorrow.

279
00:08:22.016 --> 00:08:23.296
Because you're only doing less than,

280
00:08:23.977 --> 00:08:24.837
you're doing less than 1%

281
00:08:25.037 --> 00:08:26.037
of the project.

282
00:08:26.257 --> 00:08:27.778
You're probably doing a half a percent of the project.

283
00:08:29.470 --> 00:08:29.830
If you say,

284
00:08:29.890 --> 00:08:30.091
well,

285
00:08:30.111 --> 00:08:30.331
you know,

286
00:08:30.332 --> 00:08:33.954
I can just put off this tiny half of a percent another day,

287
00:08:35.055 --> 00:08:39.919
and then it gets put off that day and then gets put off the next day and eventually you don't do it.

288
00:08:39.920 --> 00:08:40.800
It's the same thing with your health.

289
00:08:40.820 --> 00:08:44.423
If you don't prioritize your health and make that a long-term strategic goal,

290
00:08:45.203 --> 00:08:46.224
then it gets put off.

291
00:08:46.284 --> 00:08:46.524
Because,

292
00:08:46.525 --> 00:08:46.685
you know,

293
00:08:46.686 --> 00:08:47.786
if you don't work out today,

294
00:08:48.046 --> 00:08:48.306
you know,

295
00:08:48.366 --> 00:08:48.586
Will,

296
00:08:48.646 --> 00:08:49.607
you're not going to wake up tomorrow.

297
00:08:50.007 --> 00:08:51.288
If you don't work out today,

298
00:08:51.569 --> 00:08:57.033
you're not going to wake up tomorrow and you're going to be a total disaster and out of shape and have health problems.

299
00:08:57.534 --> 00:08:57.654
No.

300
00:08:57.894 --> 00:08:59.735
You'll be fine tomorrow if you don't work out today.

301
00:09:00.035 --> 00:09:02.176
And that's what allows us to make that little excuse and go,

302
00:09:02.257 --> 00:09:02.417
well,

303
00:09:02.418 --> 00:09:02.657
you know,

304
00:09:02.697 --> 00:09:03.757
today's not that important.

305
00:09:04.218 --> 00:09:05.038
I'll just do it tomorrow.

306
00:09:05.338 --> 00:09:10.081
So I think getting up early before any of the other things in the world can impose their will on me.

307
00:09:10.201 --> 00:09:11.542
I impose my will on the day.

308
00:09:12.402 --> 00:09:12.582
Yeah.

309
00:09:13.103 --> 00:09:13.343
I mean,

310
00:09:13.703 --> 00:09:16.965
I also like getting up so early and it'll be like

311
00:09:17.345 --> 00:09:19.246
1030 in the morning,

312
00:09:19.247 --> 00:09:20.827
1130 later that morning.

313
00:09:20.828 --> 00:09:21.067
It's like,

314
00:09:21.068 --> 00:09:21.587
oh my God,

315
00:09:21.648 --> 00:09:22.868
like it's still the morning.

316
00:09:23.108 --> 00:09:25.850
And if I just like crush like six hours of work.

317
00:09:26.466 --> 00:09:28.267
But also what helps me get up is like,

318
00:09:28.527 --> 00:09:28.767
you know,

319
00:09:28.927 --> 00:09:30.248
like you mentioned a book or something like that.

320
00:09:30.368 --> 00:09:32.589
I always have something that kind of pulling me out of bed.

321
00:09:32.929 --> 00:09:35.430
So it's like less of a struggle to get my feet on the ground.

322
00:09:35.670 --> 00:09:35.910
You know,

323
00:09:35.930 --> 00:09:36.490
sometimes it's like,

324
00:09:36.510 --> 00:09:37.050
Oh my God,

325
00:09:37.090 --> 00:09:37.631
cause you're sore.

326
00:09:37.671 --> 00:09:38.691
Cause you worked out or,

327
00:09:39.111 --> 00:09:39.371
you know,

328
00:09:39.372 --> 00:09:41.412
you just like burn so much fuel that the,

329
00:09:41.413 --> 00:09:41.712
uh,

330
00:09:42.092 --> 00:09:42.332
you know,

331
00:09:42.333 --> 00:09:43.493
the day before or something like that,

332
00:09:43.513 --> 00:09:45.234
it's really tough to get the feet on the ground.

333
00:09:45.274 --> 00:09:45.714
But like,

334
00:09:46.274 --> 00:09:47.054
but when I do,

335
00:09:47.455 --> 00:09:47.815
and I get,

336
00:09:47.875 --> 00:09:49.315
I just such a different day.

337
00:09:49.535 --> 00:09:51.256
And also one thing I'll mention,

338
00:09:51.376 --> 00:09:52.757
and you probably I experienced this too as well,

339
00:09:52.817 --> 00:09:53.137
Jocko,

340
00:09:53.297 --> 00:09:53.637
is like,

341
00:09:54.137 --> 00:09:55.898
I actually have my best mind.

342
00:09:56.278 --> 00:10:00.682
I feel those first like four hours of the day that I'm just really creative,

343
00:10:01.182 --> 00:10:02.183
really clear,

344
00:10:02.603 --> 00:10:02.844
you know,

345
00:10:02.984 --> 00:10:06.887
just everything just kind of click on all cylinders and really coming through.

346
00:10:08.848 --> 00:10:09.589
But yeah,

347
00:10:09.749 --> 00:10:12.971
that's one thing that's made a big difference for me is just getting up,

348
00:10:13.091 --> 00:10:13.752
hitting that really,

349
00:10:13.792 --> 00:10:14.012
really,

350
00:10:14.052 --> 00:10:15.233
really time slot.

351
00:10:15.333 --> 00:10:15.774
Yeah.

352
00:10:15.954 --> 00:10:16.074
And,

353
00:10:16.194 --> 00:10:16.454
you know,

354
00:10:17.315 --> 00:10:18.055
it's not for everybody.

355
00:10:18.135 --> 00:10:19.076
Some people are more night owls.

356
00:10:19.077 --> 00:10:20.497
And that's true.

357
00:10:21.158 --> 00:10:21.878
Some people,

358
00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:23.480
they don't they like to sleep in in the morning.

359
00:10:23.700 --> 00:10:24.000
And,

360
00:10:24.761 --> 00:10:25.001
you know,

361
00:10:25.021 --> 00:10:25.802
some of it's genetic.

362
00:10:25.803 --> 00:10:26.002
You know,

363
00:10:26.003 --> 00:10:28.504
I got four kids and one of my daughters,

364
00:10:28.704 --> 00:10:30.225
she didn't require much sleep at all.

365
00:10:30.245 --> 00:10:31.266
My wife likes to sleep.

366
00:10:31.726 --> 00:10:33.027
One of my daughters is just like.

367
00:10:33.888 --> 00:10:35.129
you got to drag her out of bed.

368
00:10:36.129 --> 00:10:36.990
Everyone's little kids,

369
00:10:37.010 --> 00:10:37.210
man.

370
00:10:37.250 --> 00:10:38.891
I think there's a genetic component to it.

371
00:10:39.371 --> 00:10:42.013
And so I think you got to kind of figure out what works for you.

372
00:10:42.133 --> 00:10:46.795
And some people love to stay up late at night and even like to work out late at night.

373
00:10:47.096 --> 00:10:49.297
And if that's something that works for somebody,

374
00:10:49.737 --> 00:10:50.177
go for it.

375
00:10:50.638 --> 00:10:50.818
Yeah.

376
00:10:51.178 --> 00:10:54.260
That's probably what's become my way of doing things.

377
00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:56.761
Because my kids get up early.

378
00:10:57.721 --> 00:10:58.582
They get up at five.

379
00:10:59.082 --> 00:10:59.843
I've got young kids,

380
00:10:59.903 --> 00:11:00.143
Jaco,

381
00:11:00.183 --> 00:11:01.704
so you probably remember those days.

382
00:11:02.224 --> 00:11:02.384
Yeah,

383
00:11:02.524 --> 00:11:03.285
they get up at five.

384
00:11:03.286 --> 00:11:04.645
So for me to get up at 4.30,

385
00:11:04.646 --> 00:11:07.007
I really don't have that much time by myself anyway.

386
00:11:07.427 --> 00:11:09.828
So the time that they're going down is like eight o'clock.

387
00:11:09.868 --> 00:11:12.309
So my time is from eight o'clock until 10.30,

388
00:11:12.310 --> 00:11:12.850
maybe 11.

389
00:11:13.310 --> 00:11:14.731
That's where I'm hitting the gym,

390
00:11:15.451 --> 00:11:16.792
which probably affects my sleep.

391
00:11:16.852 --> 00:11:18.253
So maybe I need to reassess that.

392
00:11:18.313 --> 00:11:18.433
But

393
00:11:19.613 --> 00:11:21.254
I got to flip that coin on you,

394
00:11:21.274 --> 00:11:21.454
man.

395
00:11:23.555 --> 00:11:26.457
The grind culture has become something that's really popular,

396
00:11:26.497 --> 00:11:26.657
right?

397
00:11:26.677 --> 00:11:27.257
People are like,

398
00:11:27.498 --> 00:11:27.618
hey,

399
00:11:27.758 --> 00:11:27.998
you know,

400
00:11:28.178 --> 00:11:30.059
if I'm not getting up at 4.30 like Jocko,

401
00:11:30.199 --> 00:11:30.439
then

402
00:11:30.939 --> 00:11:31.460
I'm a loser.

403
00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:31.900
if I'm not

404
00:11:33.100 --> 00:11:35.341
grounding myself into the ground and I'm not worthy.

405
00:11:36.802 --> 00:11:42.864
Where do you find is the sweet spot between driving yourself in the ground,

406
00:11:42.924 --> 00:11:43.545
burning out,

407
00:11:43.965 --> 00:11:46.866
and then doing what we should be doing,

408
00:11:47.066 --> 00:11:47.246
right?

409
00:11:47.406 --> 00:11:48.266
I think there's a balance,

410
00:11:48.286 --> 00:11:48.467
right?

411
00:11:48.647 --> 00:11:49.107
For a while,

412
00:11:50.127 --> 00:11:53.489
I was training a lot of MMA fighters for UFC and whatnot.

413
00:11:53.490 --> 00:11:56.130
And it was really obvious when you would overtrain a guy.

414
00:11:56.131 --> 00:11:57.510
And it takes a lot to overtrain someone.

415
00:11:57.511 --> 00:12:00.211
It's not easy to overtrain somebody,

416
00:12:00.271 --> 00:12:01.992
but definitely someone in a

417
00:12:02.488 --> 00:12:03.348
10-week fight camp,

418
00:12:04.269 --> 00:12:06.289
they will get to a point where they become overtrained.

419
00:12:06.290 --> 00:12:08.550
And it's very obvious because a guy that was,

420
00:12:09.710 --> 00:12:09.990
you know,

421
00:12:10.270 --> 00:12:12.931
really doing well in sparring rounds and,

422
00:12:13.071 --> 00:12:13.271
you know,

423
00:12:13.272 --> 00:12:15.912
you'd have two of his sparring partners that he was just killing.

424
00:12:16.552 --> 00:12:17.052
And maybe,

425
00:12:17.053 --> 00:12:17.292
you know,

426
00:12:17.312 --> 00:12:19.633
you'd got some sprint times that you're making some,

427
00:12:20.393 --> 00:12:20.693
just some,

428
00:12:20.933 --> 00:12:21.173
you know,

429
00:12:21.213 --> 00:12:23.274
burpees and burpees for time.

430
00:12:23.275 --> 00:12:27.715
And so you've got some very clear indicators and all of a sudden,

431
00:12:28.475 --> 00:12:28.955
probably,

432
00:12:29.095 --> 00:12:29.335
you know,

433
00:12:29.415 --> 00:12:31.616
call it four weeks or five weeks into a fight camp.

434
00:12:32.156 --> 00:12:37.339
There'd be a day where the guy shows up or maybe a day guy shows up and he's a little bit off.

435
00:12:37.699 --> 00:12:40.321
Maybe he's not hitting his numbers the way he should.

436
00:12:40.322 --> 00:12:43.762
And then he gets beat up a little bit in a sparring by a guy that he's usually beaten up.

437
00:12:44.243 --> 00:12:44.503
And you go,

438
00:12:44.523 --> 00:12:44.743
okay,

439
00:12:44.843 --> 00:12:45.283
bad day.

440
00:12:46.264 --> 00:12:47.525
If that happens again the next day,

441
00:12:48.125 --> 00:12:49.185
I would immediately tell the guy,

442
00:12:49.186 --> 00:12:49.486
all right,

443
00:12:49.746 --> 00:12:49.946
hey,

444
00:12:50.086 --> 00:12:50.746
day off tomorrow,

445
00:12:50.946 --> 00:12:51.567
go eat steak.

446
00:12:52.007 --> 00:12:52.908
And just,

447
00:12:52.909 --> 00:12:53.128
you know,

448
00:12:53.148 --> 00:12:53.988
go get a massage,

449
00:12:54.028 --> 00:12:54.669
go relax,

450
00:12:55.169 --> 00:12:56.450
go for a swim in the ocean.

451
00:12:57.470 --> 00:12:58.691
Just do a stretch,

452
00:12:58.771 --> 00:13:00.052
but take some time off.

453
00:13:00.532 --> 00:13:00.792
so you

454
00:13:01.052 --> 00:13:03.293
it was very clear to see someone was overtraining.

455
00:13:03.294 --> 00:13:03.633
And I think,

456
00:13:04.253 --> 00:13:04.473
you know,

457
00:13:04.474 --> 00:13:06.674
if you pay any attention at all to what's going on in your life,

458
00:13:06.714 --> 00:13:10.195
if you are becoming less productive in what you're doing,

459
00:13:10.595 --> 00:13:12.115
if you're falling asleep during meetings,

460
00:13:12.116 --> 00:13:13.175
you need more sleep.

461
00:13:13.275 --> 00:13:15.696
If you're getting weaker in the gym,

462
00:13:15.996 --> 00:13:16.296
you're,

463
00:13:16.536 --> 00:13:16.656
you,

464
00:13:16.756 --> 00:13:16.877
you,

465
00:13:17.117 --> 00:13:18.257
you might be overtraining.

466
00:13:18.317 --> 00:13:18.857
Um,

467
00:13:19.117 --> 00:13:19.417
so yeah,

468
00:13:19.437 --> 00:13:21.698
I think you just got to pay attention and make sure you're not overdoing it.

469
00:13:21.699 --> 00:13:23.598
And I think it's usually pretty clear.

470
00:13:24.579 --> 00:13:25.679
And then the other end of the spectrum,

471
00:13:25.859 --> 00:13:26.019
well,

472
00:13:26.119 --> 00:13:28.620
if you've got things that you're trying to achieve and you're not getting them done,

473
00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:29.120
well then.

474
00:13:29.860 --> 00:13:33.322
you need to step up your game and work,

475
00:13:33.662 --> 00:13:34.263
get some work done.

476
00:13:34.623 --> 00:13:34.783
Yeah.

477
00:13:35.063 --> 00:13:35.183
Yeah.

478
00:13:35.423 --> 00:13:36.304
I always tell people,

479
00:13:36.684 --> 00:13:36.924
you know,

480
00:13:37.004 --> 00:13:39.666
resting before you're really tired is just laziness.

481
00:13:41.467 --> 00:13:43.268
But there's also a time to rest.

482
00:13:44.108 --> 00:13:45.809
So I like that balance there.

483
00:13:45.810 --> 00:13:45.929
So,

484
00:13:47.790 --> 00:13:48.030
you know,

485
00:13:48.431 --> 00:13:50.492
you and I both led on the battlefield and,

486
00:13:50.572 --> 00:13:50.812
you know,

487
00:13:50.813 --> 00:13:57.436
it takes a lot of courage to step on that battlefield at first or in and of itself,

488
00:13:57.476 --> 00:13:57.716
but it...

489
00:13:57.836 --> 00:13:58.637
But it even takes,

490
00:13:58.797 --> 00:13:59.497
in my opinion,

491
00:13:59.598 --> 00:14:02.580
it takes more courage to lead on the battlefield.

492
00:14:02.920 --> 00:14:03.301
For you,

493
00:14:03.641 --> 00:14:07.164
do you think courage is born or do you think it's made?

494
00:14:07.764 --> 00:14:07.885
Or,

495
00:14:08.105 --> 00:14:08.345
you know,

496
00:14:08.445 --> 00:14:09.826
similar to the question before,

497
00:14:10.447 --> 00:14:12.108
are they not mutually exclusive?

498
00:14:12.749 --> 00:14:14.430
And then if it is made,

499
00:14:15.111 --> 00:14:16.332
how do you develop that courage?

500
00:14:16.772 --> 00:14:19.875
I think different people have different levels of courage.

501
00:14:20.255 --> 00:14:20.615
And

502
00:14:20.976 --> 00:14:24.959
I think some of it is developed through your life experiences.

503
00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:25.459
some of

504
00:14:26.308 --> 00:14:27.949
Some of it is part of the culture that you're in.

505
00:14:28.330 --> 00:14:29.310
Some people don't have it.

506
00:14:29.350 --> 00:14:30.331
Some people are just afraid.

507
00:14:30.332 --> 00:14:30.551
You know,

508
00:14:30.571 --> 00:14:33.734
maybe if you're afraid of dying and you're going into combat,

509
00:14:33.814 --> 00:14:35.355
it's going to be rough.

510
00:14:36.616 --> 00:14:42.180
But if you've accepted death as a possible outcome and in some cases maybe a probable outcome,

511
00:14:43.060 --> 00:14:43.641
then it's okay.

512
00:14:44.281 --> 00:14:44.401
So

513
00:14:44.882 --> 00:14:46.163
I think it's a little bit of everything.

514
00:14:48.644 --> 00:14:49.945
But I think a lot of it just has to do,

515
00:14:50.286 --> 00:14:50.506
you know,

516
00:14:50.507 --> 00:14:52.727
when you're talking about battlefield courage,

517
00:14:53.168 --> 00:14:53.488
I think.

518
00:14:53.936 --> 00:14:57.139
Some of that is just based on the fact of how much you're afraid to die or not.

519
00:14:57.599 --> 00:14:57.899
And

520
00:14:58.760 --> 00:15:00.821
I think if you're really scared of dying,

521
00:15:01.122 --> 00:15:02.703
then it's going to be hard.

522
00:15:03.423 --> 00:15:04.584
And if you're not scared of dying,

523
00:15:04.604 --> 00:15:05.565
then it won't be that bad.

524
00:15:05.985 --> 00:15:06.145
Yeah.

525
00:15:06.146 --> 00:15:14.187
And I would say it's also probably dependent on the training that you have and then the team that you have surrounding you,

526
00:15:14.207 --> 00:15:14.407
right?

527
00:15:14.707 --> 00:15:16.528
If you have a pretty weak team around you,

528
00:15:16.529 --> 00:15:17.488
that could be pretty scary.

529
00:15:17.728 --> 00:15:19.309
Like the times I've stepped on the battlefield,

530
00:15:19.349 --> 00:15:22.710
I knew that the men that I was beside were some of the best on the planet.

531
00:15:22.711 --> 00:15:23.870
And I know you felt the same.

532
00:15:24.690 --> 00:15:27.211
So that definitely helps having a team.

533
00:15:27.291 --> 00:15:27.531
You know,

534
00:15:27.651 --> 00:15:28.671
maybe it's not the battlefield,

535
00:15:28.691 --> 00:15:30.892
maybe it's the corporate space or something else.

536
00:15:30.932 --> 00:15:31.832
If you have that team,

537
00:15:32.032 --> 00:15:33.533
then you can lead with courage,

538
00:15:33.573 --> 00:15:33.913
I think.

539
00:15:34.053 --> 00:15:34.913
Step in with courage.

540
00:15:35.113 --> 00:15:36.874
So you definitely want to have a good team.

541
00:15:36.894 --> 00:15:37.094
That's,

542
00:15:37.274 --> 00:15:38.174
there's no doubt about that.

543
00:15:38.534 --> 00:15:39.794
And that'll make you feel more,

544
00:15:41.715 --> 00:15:43.195
more secure with what you're doing.

545
00:15:43.196 --> 00:15:43.395
You know,

546
00:15:43.415 --> 00:15:43.835
I kind of,

547
00:15:43.836 --> 00:15:44.436
I guess I went,

548
00:15:44.736 --> 00:15:48.317
I went high into the right on your question and went straight to like facing death.

549
00:15:48.417 --> 00:15:48.597
So

550
00:15:49.257 --> 00:15:50.197
I apologize for that.

551
00:15:50.217 --> 00:15:50.457
You know,

552
00:15:50.497 --> 00:15:51.277
if you're talking about,

553
00:15:51.958 --> 00:15:52.198
you know,

554
00:15:52.598 --> 00:15:53.558
making decisions in the,

555
00:15:54.038 --> 00:15:54.818
in the corporate world.

556
00:15:54.878 --> 00:15:55.118
Yeah.

557
00:15:55.999 --> 00:15:56.239
You know,

558
00:15:56.299 --> 00:15:56.419
I'm,

559
00:15:56.859 --> 00:16:03.501
that's just a matter of risk assessment and making incremental steps to move towards whatever strategic goal you're,

560
00:16:03.502 --> 00:16:04.241
you're trying to achieve.

561
00:16:04.461 --> 00:16:04.581
Well,

562
00:16:04.582 --> 00:16:04.901
it's also,

563
00:16:05.222 --> 00:16:07.383
it's another freedom if you let go of like,

564
00:16:07.763 --> 00:16:11.706
if you know why you're there and accept the fact that you can die and there's like a freedom in that.

565
00:16:11.707 --> 00:16:12.046
It's like,

566
00:16:12.087 --> 00:16:12.267
well,

567
00:16:12.547 --> 00:16:12.827
you know,

568
00:16:13.087 --> 00:16:13.988
this is instead of,

569
00:16:14.428 --> 00:16:14.668
you know,

570
00:16:14.768 --> 00:16:15.169
not want,

571
00:16:15.329 --> 00:16:16.830
that's gotta be a real tough situation.

572
00:16:16.890 --> 00:16:17.450
I'm not a,

573
00:16:18.031 --> 00:16:18.711
thank you for your service,

574
00:16:18.731 --> 00:16:19.652
Jocko and John.

575
00:16:19.792 --> 00:16:20.152
I'm not,

576
00:16:20.713 --> 00:16:21.813
I really appreciate all that.

577
00:16:22.354 --> 00:16:22.754
But let's,

578
00:16:22.834 --> 00:16:23.114
let's go,

579
00:16:23.315 --> 00:16:23.735
let's talk,

580
00:16:24.315 --> 00:16:26.096
circle back to discipline and,

581
00:16:26.277 --> 00:16:26.417
and,

582
00:16:27.337 --> 00:16:27.578
you know,

583
00:16:27.758 --> 00:16:32.221
what is like getting in the way of people like creating this.

584
00:16:32.525 --> 00:16:33.025
discipline.

585
00:16:33.065 --> 00:16:33.525
Like it's,

586
00:16:33.626 --> 00:16:34.806
it seems to be such a struggle.

587
00:16:34.846 --> 00:16:35.006
Like,

588
00:16:35.007 --> 00:16:35.246
I mean,

589
00:16:35.286 --> 00:16:36.907
John and I have been doing this show quite a while.

590
00:16:37.287 --> 00:16:37.507
You know,

591
00:16:37.508 --> 00:16:39.188
there's a lot of discipline that's built into the show.

592
00:16:39.308 --> 00:16:43.590
Like we found each other because of discipline around meditation and mindfulness.

593
00:16:43.591 --> 00:16:44.610
And we understand like,

594
00:16:44.871 --> 00:16:45.731
you got to get after it.

595
00:16:45.732 --> 00:16:46.771
You got to keep practicing,

596
00:16:47.192 --> 00:16:49.012
but so many men out there.

597
00:16:49.032 --> 00:16:50.053
And probably a lot of the men,

598
00:16:50.153 --> 00:16:55.175
some of the men we're listening to have trouble getting after it and have trouble accessing that discipline.

599
00:16:55.255 --> 00:16:57.476
Like where's a good place to start?

600
00:16:57.516 --> 00:16:57.756
Like,

601
00:16:58.036 --> 00:16:58.256
um,

602
00:16:58.777 --> 00:16:59.217
if you would.

603
00:16:59.701 --> 00:17:00.442
Or whatever it is.

604
00:17:00.482 --> 00:17:00.722
I don't,

605
00:17:00.762 --> 00:17:01.242
I don't like,

606
00:17:01.322 --> 00:17:01.662
what's the,

607
00:17:01.722 --> 00:17:02.042
what's the,

608
00:17:02.102 --> 00:17:03.143
how do we crack this nut,

609
00:17:03.203 --> 00:17:03.603
if you will?

610
00:17:03.703 --> 00:17:03.823
Well,

611
00:17:03.843 --> 00:17:07.425
you asked the question early in that long question,

612
00:17:07.565 --> 00:17:11.087
which was what makes discipline difficult?

613
00:17:11.428 --> 00:17:12.448
And I was just going to answer that.

614
00:17:12.449 --> 00:17:12.508
Oh,

615
00:17:12.509 --> 00:17:12.828
it's hard.

616
00:17:14.409 --> 00:17:14.529
Yeah.

617
00:17:14.749 --> 00:17:15.150
Yeah.

618
00:17:15.151 --> 00:17:15.310
Okay.

619
00:17:15.311 --> 00:17:16.050
It's just natural.

620
00:17:16.051 --> 00:17:16.610
It's natural.

621
00:17:16.650 --> 00:17:18.011
It's just the contour of the course.

622
00:17:18.471 --> 00:17:18.591
Yeah.

623
00:17:18.592 --> 00:17:18.912
It's just,

624
00:17:18.952 --> 00:17:19.432
it's just hard.

625
00:17:19.732 --> 00:17:19.872
It's,

626
00:17:20.032 --> 00:17:20.813
it's hard to do stuff.

627
00:17:20.873 --> 00:17:23.194
It's hard to do stuff that you don't want to do and you got to do it anyways.

628
00:17:23.854 --> 00:17:24.495
That's part of it.

629
00:17:25.035 --> 00:17:28.797
The other thing is how bad do you actually want the thing that you are?

630
00:17:30.081 --> 00:17:32.043
allegedly trying to be disciplined for.

631
00:17:32.603 --> 00:17:34.425
If you don't really want it that bad,

632
00:17:35.005 --> 00:17:38.708
then it's really easy to not take the small steps to get there.

633
00:17:39.289 --> 00:17:41.310
If you really don't want to do something,

634
00:17:42.011 --> 00:17:42.992
then it's really easy to say,

635
00:17:43.012 --> 00:17:43.492
you know what,

636
00:17:43.612 --> 00:17:44.633
I don't really need,

637
00:17:44.873 --> 00:17:47.135
that book is not that important to me that I'm trying to write,

638
00:17:47.235 --> 00:17:52.159
or the competition that I'm going to compete in is not that important,

639
00:17:52.199 --> 00:17:53.440
and I'll just gaff it off.

640
00:17:54.301 --> 00:17:54.541
You know,

641
00:17:55.041 --> 00:17:55.802
it's just one of those things.

642
00:17:55.822 --> 00:17:57.744
I think if you really truly want something,

643
00:17:57.764 --> 00:17:59.025
the discipline comes pretty easily.

644
00:17:59.565 --> 00:18:01.327
And if you don't care,

645
00:18:01.587 --> 00:18:03.328
then if you don't really want it,

646
00:18:03.329 --> 00:18:05.510
then the discipline is going to be a little bit trickier to come by.

647
00:18:05.791 --> 00:18:08.012
And then it's just a matter of doing things that are hard.

648
00:18:08.673 --> 00:18:09.754
And no one likes to do that.

649
00:18:10.054 --> 00:18:10.274
Yeah,

650
00:18:10.495 --> 00:18:12.536
there's anything you get away from being in the military.

651
00:18:13.037 --> 00:18:15.179
It's just doing things that you don't feel like doing.

652
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:16.400
Right.

653
00:18:16.420 --> 00:18:21.364
You're just going to do things that you just don't feel like doing and just turning off your mind and just going forward and doing them anyways.

654
00:18:21.924 --> 00:18:22.445
Whether that's,

655
00:18:22.565 --> 00:18:22.865
you know,

656
00:18:22.945 --> 00:18:23.065
in

657
00:18:24.246 --> 00:18:25.107
Navy boot camp,

658
00:18:25.808 --> 00:18:26.028
you know,

659
00:18:26.108 --> 00:18:27.089
having to eat your.

660
00:18:27.613 --> 00:18:45.190
launch a certain way or you know like they make you fold your underwear a certain way and it's like you no part of me as a human being wanted to fold my underwear a certain way and i did it so you know you learn how to just shut off your mind and then eventually you're getting in cold water and then eventually you're doing

661
00:18:45.311 --> 00:18:51.557
you know staying awake for long periods of time or whatever you're doing things that are hard and it's no factor well i feel like there's also

662
00:18:52.725 --> 00:18:54.547
One thing that might help is like attaching,

663
00:18:54.647 --> 00:18:57.649
giving yourself to a higher purpose or giving yourself to a bigger cause.

664
00:18:57.789 --> 00:18:57.989
Like,

665
00:18:58.269 --> 00:18:59.210
is this something that can,

666
00:18:59.771 --> 00:19:00.491
I know it does for me.

667
00:19:00.651 --> 00:19:00.912
I mean,

668
00:19:00.992 --> 00:19:02.373
I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

669
00:19:02.513 --> 00:19:02.733
Like,

670
00:19:02.953 --> 00:19:03.173
you know,

671
00:19:03.193 --> 00:19:06.676
instead of all it being about me and whatever you're trying to achieve,

672
00:19:06.677 --> 00:19:11.040
it's like attaching to something bigger really just seems to draw me a hell of a lot more further,

673
00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:11.980
further forward.

674
00:19:12.261 --> 00:19:13.081
One of the things about,

675
00:19:13.201 --> 00:19:13.401
um,

676
00:19:14.042 --> 00:19:17.104
like long-term thinking is sometimes it's too long,

677
00:19:17.405 --> 00:19:17.725
too far.

678
00:19:18.929 --> 00:19:19.229
And so

679
00:19:19.650 --> 00:19:20.070
I like to,

680
00:19:20.310 --> 00:19:20.550
you know,

681
00:19:20.650 --> 00:19:20.911
I don't,

682
00:19:20.951 --> 00:19:21.931
I don't like to tell people,

683
00:19:22.011 --> 00:19:22.992
think about the long term.

684
00:19:24.033 --> 00:19:24.653
I tell people,

685
00:19:24.933 --> 00:19:26.234
think about the long term for a little while,

686
00:19:26.835 --> 00:19:28.075
but if the long term it's,

687
00:19:28.155 --> 00:19:28.696
it's interesting.

688
00:19:28.736 --> 00:19:30.757
There's a analogy that I use with shooting.

689
00:19:30.797 --> 00:19:34.280
When you're looking down the sights of your rifle at a target,

690
00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:36.521
that's three or 400 meters away.

691
00:19:37.922 --> 00:19:38.202
If you,

692
00:19:38.302 --> 00:19:39.643
if you look at that target,

693
00:19:39.943 --> 00:19:40.784
it becomes blurry.

694
00:19:41.324 --> 00:19:43.026
And so what they teach you is front side focus.

695
00:19:43.046 --> 00:19:43.606
You actually,

696
00:19:44.026 --> 00:19:44.246
you're,

697
00:19:44.247 --> 00:19:46.288
you can kind of vaguely see the target in the background,

698
00:19:46.289 --> 00:19:47.629
but what you see is the front side of your.

699
00:19:48.149 --> 00:20:03.120
post on your on your weapon well when we used to use iron iron sights but now it's gotten a little bit easier but uh but you look at the the front sight and that you can do you can look at that and you can stay focused on that and so it's the same thing with you know when you have a goal

700
00:20:03.892 --> 00:20:04.132
you know,

701
00:20:04.152 --> 00:20:06.353
if you have a goal that I want to save enough money,

702
00:20:06.714 --> 00:20:06.974
you know,

703
00:20:07.114 --> 00:20:08.455
for a down payment on my house,

704
00:20:09.015 --> 00:20:09.195
right?

705
00:20:09.215 --> 00:20:10.796
That's a lot of money to save up.

706
00:20:11.416 --> 00:20:12.577
And some days you're like,

707
00:20:12.597 --> 00:20:12.977
you know what?

708
00:20:13.037 --> 00:20:16.339
I really just want to get a new TV or I just really want to go out for dinner tonight.

709
00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:19.120
I don't care about that because the vision is too far away.

710
00:20:20.121 --> 00:20:21.121
And so sometimes you got to go,

711
00:20:21.602 --> 00:20:21.902
you know what?

712
00:20:21.903 --> 00:20:22.622
I'm going to look at the vision,

713
00:20:22.702 --> 00:20:22.902
right?

714
00:20:22.922 --> 00:20:24.543
I got to look at what can I do today?

715
00:20:24.683 --> 00:20:25.264
This week,

716
00:20:25.344 --> 00:20:26.524
I'm going to save this much money.

717
00:20:26.824 --> 00:20:29.026
And you just bring it something a little bit more achievable,

718
00:20:29.086 --> 00:20:30.746
something that's a little bit more in focus.

719
00:20:31.367 --> 00:20:31.787
And for me,

720
00:20:31.927 --> 00:20:32.167
you know,

721
00:20:32.307 --> 00:20:32.527
again,

722
00:20:32.567 --> 00:20:33.428
I'm using writing.

723
00:20:33.844 --> 00:20:34.584
a little bit today,

724
00:20:34.684 --> 00:20:37.226
but when I'm writing a book,

725
00:20:37.246 --> 00:20:38.206
I write a thousand words a day.

726
00:20:38.207 --> 00:20:39.787
It takes me like 45 minutes to an hour.

727
00:20:40.268 --> 00:20:40.648
That's it.

728
00:20:41.088 --> 00:20:41.428
That's it.

729
00:20:41.429 --> 00:20:42.069
That's all I'm going to do.

730
00:20:42.429 --> 00:20:43.069
I'm not going to,

731
00:20:43.070 --> 00:20:46.391
I'm not thinking about having to do that for 90 straight days,

732
00:20:46.451 --> 00:20:47.371
which is what I have to do.

733
00:20:47.952 --> 00:20:49.032
I just think about today,

734
00:20:49.633 --> 00:20:53.595
I'm going to work for 45 minutes on this particular thing and I'm going to get what I'm supposed to do.

735
00:20:54.255 --> 00:20:56.476
And I'll probably end up having to throw a bunch of it away,

736
00:20:56.616 --> 00:20:57.757
but I'm going to get it done.

737
00:20:58.197 --> 00:20:58.317
So

738
00:20:58.898 --> 00:20:59.558
I think yes,

739
00:20:59.818 --> 00:21:00.739
long-term and,

740
00:21:00.939 --> 00:21:01.139
and,

741
00:21:01.539 --> 00:21:02.860
and a higher vision.

742
00:21:03.472 --> 00:21:05.733
definitely worth focusing on sometimes.

743
00:21:06.273 --> 00:21:11.355
And then when that seems like it's too far away and I don't think I'll ever get to that goal,

744
00:21:11.356 --> 00:21:11.615
well,

745
00:21:11.656 --> 00:21:11.816
cool,

746
00:21:11.896 --> 00:21:13.256
what can you get done today?

747
00:21:13.336 --> 00:21:14.397
What can you get done this week?

748
00:21:14.398 --> 00:21:15.377
And I think that's also a...

749
00:21:16.398 --> 00:21:17.138
And then by the way,

750
00:21:17.298 --> 00:21:19.119
when that grind becomes too much,

751
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:20.359
when you go,

752
00:21:20.419 --> 00:21:22.680
I'm so sick of writing these thousand words a day,

753
00:21:22.940 --> 00:21:23.981
I want to blow it off.

754
00:21:24.381 --> 00:21:24.721
Then you go,

755
00:21:24.761 --> 00:21:25.221
wait a second,

756
00:21:25.241 --> 00:21:26.182
what am I trying to achieve here?

757
00:21:26.262 --> 00:21:27.022
What's that long-term goal?

758
00:21:27.023 --> 00:21:27.262
Oh yeah,

759
00:21:27.263 --> 00:21:27.622
that's right.

760
00:21:27.623 --> 00:21:29.863
I've got this book inside me that I want to get out.

761
00:21:29.983 --> 00:21:31.364
And then I think...

762
00:21:32.376 --> 00:21:37.499
Shifting focus basically between the long-term and the short-term is a good way to keep yourself on track.

763
00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:38.620
Yeah.

764
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:39.220
I mean,

765
00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:41.582
that's what you ask most SEALs.

766
00:21:41.602 --> 00:21:43.883
How do you make it through Hell Week or how do you make it through BUDS?

767
00:21:44.203 --> 00:21:44.964
Everybody says,

768
00:21:45.024 --> 00:21:45.244
well,

769
00:21:46.885 --> 00:21:49.226
I wanted to do more than just show up at BUDS.

770
00:21:49.266 --> 00:21:51.088
I wanted to do more than just make it through Hell Week.

771
00:21:51.108 --> 00:21:52.088
I wanted to become a SEAL.

772
00:21:52.609 --> 00:21:55.670
But then when you break it down into the little digestible chunks,

773
00:21:56.551 --> 00:21:57.972
I think almost everyone says.

774
00:21:58.408 --> 00:22:00.068
I just made it from one meal to the next,

775
00:22:00.209 --> 00:22:01.629
or I made it from one evolution,

776
00:22:01.749 --> 00:22:03.189
one event to the next,

777
00:22:03.229 --> 00:22:04.630
just in buds,

778
00:22:04.730 --> 00:22:05.850
just kind of rolling.

779
00:22:05.851 --> 00:22:08.851
And that's what kept the proverbial flywheel moving,

780
00:22:09.071 --> 00:22:09.311
right?

781
00:22:09.511 --> 00:22:10.831
It took a little bit to get it going,

782
00:22:10.832 --> 00:22:11.752
but once it gets going,

783
00:22:11.772 --> 00:22:13.812
then it's impossible to stop.

784
00:22:16.773 --> 00:22:18.954
For that extreme ownership piece,

785
00:22:19.014 --> 00:22:19.254
right?

786
00:22:20.914 --> 00:22:24.635
What do you say to people who are afraid of taking extreme ownership,

787
00:22:24.715 --> 00:22:27.256
extreme or full responsibility because

788
00:22:27.576 --> 00:22:36.482
sometimes it feels like too much pressure or maybe they even feel that they're going to put too much blame on themselves if something fails.

789
00:22:36.542 --> 00:22:37.663
What do you say to people like that?

790
00:22:38.263 --> 00:22:38.383
Well,

791
00:22:38.423 --> 00:22:39.664
what's the alternative to that?

792
00:22:41.465 --> 00:22:44.648
The alternative to that to me is if I'm blaming you,

793
00:22:44.808 --> 00:22:45.188
John,

794
00:22:45.828 --> 00:22:46.049
well,

795
00:22:46.089 --> 00:22:48.250
then what can I fix for myself?

796
00:22:50.692 --> 00:22:51.252
Nothing really.

797
00:22:52.373 --> 00:22:53.213
I can just sit there and say,

798
00:22:53.233 --> 00:22:53.373
well,

799
00:22:53.374 --> 00:22:55.155
it was John's fault and my world stays the same.

800
00:22:55.515 --> 00:22:56.416
I can say,

801
00:22:56.496 --> 00:22:56.616
hey,

802
00:22:56.617 --> 00:22:57.036
you know what?

803
00:22:57.196 --> 00:22:58.177
we were doing this project.

804
00:22:58.357 --> 00:22:58.937
I fell behind.

805
00:22:58.977 --> 00:23:00.358
I didn't give John support that he needed.

806
00:23:00.398 --> 00:23:01.639
Next time I'm going to set him up better.

807
00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:02.980
I'm going to explain the timelines better.

808
00:23:02.981 --> 00:23:06.482
I'm going to make sure I give him the resources that he needs and I'm going to make sure that this happens next time.

809
00:23:07.043 --> 00:23:07.803
And that's all on me.

810
00:23:08.204 --> 00:23:12.927
And now I have control over my destiny and my world's going to be a lot better than sitting around and saying,

811
00:23:12.967 --> 00:23:13.107
well,

812
00:23:13.187 --> 00:23:13.507
John,

813
00:23:13.908 --> 00:23:14.148
you know,

814
00:23:14.188 --> 00:23:14.508
he didn't,

815
00:23:14.548 --> 00:23:15.989
he didn't get his part of the project done.

816
00:23:16.009 --> 00:23:17.130
That's why we didn't get it launched.

817
00:23:17.150 --> 00:23:18.070
That's why we're failing.

818
00:23:18.331 --> 00:23:19.111
It's all John's fault.

819
00:23:19.691 --> 00:23:20.452
None of it's my fault.

820
00:23:20.572 --> 00:23:20.732
Cool.

821
00:23:20.892 --> 00:23:21.633
Nothing's going to change.

822
00:23:21.853 --> 00:23:23.074
So yeah,

823
00:23:23.354 --> 00:23:26.216
you just take ownership of what's happening and it

824
00:23:26.336 --> 00:23:26.616
It is,

825
00:23:26.716 --> 00:23:26.996
you know,

826
00:23:27.536 --> 00:23:28.617
it does feel like a lot,

827
00:23:29.377 --> 00:23:30.697
especially when you're not accustomed to it.

828
00:23:31.578 --> 00:23:34.238
But it's also for the very reasons I just explained.

829
00:23:34.278 --> 00:23:35.919
It's it's it's very freeing.

830
00:23:35.939 --> 00:23:39.560
It's very liberating to know that everything that's going on in my world,

831
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:42.181
my health,

832
00:23:42.741 --> 00:23:43.741
my relationships,

833
00:23:44.541 --> 00:23:46.022
my financial situation,

834
00:23:46.062 --> 00:23:46.902
my businesses,

835
00:23:47.422 --> 00:23:49.623
everything that's going good and everything that's going bad is on me.

836
00:23:50.483 --> 00:23:53.084
And and so if something needs to get fixed,

837
00:23:53.224 --> 00:23:53.884
I need to fix it.

838
00:23:54.064 --> 00:23:54.644
And I've always,

839
00:23:54.765 --> 00:23:56.065
I've always had this attitude,

840
00:23:56.666 --> 00:23:56.866
you know,

841
00:23:56.867 --> 00:23:59.468
and it's something that's with good leadership.

842
00:23:59.768 --> 00:24:00.068
You'd say,

843
00:24:00.069 --> 00:24:00.389
you know,

844
00:24:00.569 --> 00:24:01.970
as a young enlisted seal,

845
00:24:02.010 --> 00:24:03.831
I would see that all like with good leaders,

846
00:24:04.612 --> 00:24:05.352
when something went wrong,

847
00:24:05.353 --> 00:24:05.813
it was them.

848
00:24:06.473 --> 00:24:07.153
And with bad leaders,

849
00:24:07.154 --> 00:24:07.894
when something went wrong,

850
00:24:07.895 --> 00:24:08.835
it was everybody else's fault.

851
00:24:09.555 --> 00:24:09.715
Yeah.

852
00:24:09.716 --> 00:24:10.236
I'm seeing that.

853
00:24:10.676 --> 00:24:11.156
And it's just,

854
00:24:11.757 --> 00:24:12.978
it's just a loser mentality.

855
00:24:13.218 --> 00:24:13.358
Yeah.

856
00:24:13.618 --> 00:24:14.559
And you got to focus on what,

857
00:24:14.659 --> 00:24:14.899
you know,

858
00:24:15.059 --> 00:24:16.300
focus on what you can change,

859
00:24:16.360 --> 00:24:19.442
focus on what you can affect and let the rest kind of go.

860
00:24:21.424 --> 00:24:21.544
and

861
00:24:22.096 --> 00:24:26.718
kind of tie into that extreme ownership piece and responsibility,

862
00:24:26.998 --> 00:24:27.558
if you will.

863
00:24:28.759 --> 00:24:33.561
I want to take a moment to honor two of your warriors who served under your leadership.

864
00:24:34.021 --> 00:24:34.461
Mark Lee,

865
00:24:35.402 --> 00:24:38.323
I went through buds with Mark or at least started buds in his first class.

866
00:24:39.143 --> 00:24:40.043
And then Ryan Jobe.

867
00:24:40.984 --> 00:24:42.244
For those who don't know Mark,

868
00:24:42.344 --> 00:24:45.046
Mark was the first Navy SEAL killed in action in Iraq.

869
00:24:46.646 --> 00:24:47.687
Correct me if I'm wrong here,

870
00:24:48.047 --> 00:24:48.367
Jocko,

871
00:24:48.447 --> 00:24:50.068
but I'm pretty sure he died in Ramadi.

872
00:24:52.410 --> 00:24:58.160
And then Ryan was gravely wounded in that same battle.

873
00:24:59.052 --> 00:25:01.013
shot in the face by a sniper.

874
00:25:01.713 --> 00:25:03.453
And though he survived initially,

875
00:25:04.234 --> 00:25:05.014
he lost his vision,

876
00:25:05.114 --> 00:25:05.914
had a glass eye,

877
00:25:06.694 --> 00:25:07.975
went through multiple surgeries,

878
00:25:08.035 --> 00:25:13.216
and then at least reportedly died due to some complications in surgery.

879
00:25:14.356 --> 00:25:14.976
And these men,

880
00:25:15.697 --> 00:25:16.677
they weren't just operators.

881
00:25:17.097 --> 00:25:17.777
They were brothers.

882
00:25:17.877 --> 00:25:18.397
And like I said,

883
00:25:18.537 --> 00:25:20.438
I went through or started Buzz with Mark.

884
00:25:21.378 --> 00:25:28.140
And his and Ryan's legacy clearly live on in what you speak about with...

885
00:25:28.576 --> 00:25:30.278
leadership and responsibility and,

886
00:25:30.898 --> 00:25:31.138
and,

887
00:25:31.258 --> 00:25:32.239
and burden of command.

888
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:38.685
Can you take us into what it was like to lose them and not just as,

889
00:25:39.225 --> 00:25:40.166
as the commander,

890
00:25:40.946 --> 00:25:41.707
but as a man,

891
00:25:42.207 --> 00:25:44.529
and then how do those losses,

892
00:25:45.410 --> 00:25:48.092
how have they shaped the way that you lead and the way that you live?

893
00:25:48.453 --> 00:25:48.713
You know,

894
00:25:48.773 --> 00:25:51.275
losing guys in combat is the worst thing.

895
00:25:52.716 --> 00:25:53.016
And

896
00:25:54.938 --> 00:25:55.478
Mark, as,

897
00:25:55.659 --> 00:25:56.139
as you know,

898
00:25:56.419 --> 00:25:57.060
Mark was

899
00:25:59.288 --> 00:26:06.311
just such a stud and such a powerful force of nature and such an incredible human being.

900
00:26:06.851 --> 00:26:10.372
And he was just an awesome guy.

901
00:26:11.092 --> 00:26:20.495
And so he seemed very indestructible and immortal.

902
00:26:22.135 --> 00:26:24.676
And combat does not care about that.

903
00:26:26.120 --> 00:26:32.803
And so it was totally devastating and soul crushing.

904
00:26:35.844 --> 00:26:37.545
Ryan was wounded the same day,

905
00:26:38.185 --> 00:26:40.046
earlier in the days when Ryan was wounded.

906
00:26:40.706 --> 00:26:40.886
And,

907
00:26:41.006 --> 00:26:41.246
you know,

908
00:26:41.247 --> 00:26:43.747
we didn't really know if Ryan was going to make it at first.

909
00:26:43.767 --> 00:26:43.947
I mean,

910
00:26:43.948 --> 00:26:52.191
he got shot in the head and then was put into a medically induced coma for weeks after that.

911
00:26:53.451 --> 00:26:53.691
You know,

912
00:26:53.731 --> 00:26:55.352
he got stabilized within.

913
00:26:55.900 --> 00:26:56.901
probably a day or two,

914
00:26:57.021 --> 00:26:58.382
but for certainly,

915
00:26:58.842 --> 00:27:00.844
Kazavacking him out of Ramadi was,

916
00:27:01.204 --> 00:27:01.425
was,

917
00:27:01.985 --> 00:27:06.209
did not look good for probably 12 hours or something like that.

918
00:27:07.249 --> 00:27:08.951
So yeah,

919
00:27:09.231 --> 00:27:09.792
soul crushing.

920
00:27:10.112 --> 00:27:10.732
That's what it is.

921
00:27:11.293 --> 00:27:11.553
And then,

922
00:27:11.613 --> 00:27:12.354
and then for,

923
00:27:12.494 --> 00:27:13.134
for you now,

924
00:27:13.595 --> 00:27:17.198
how has that kind of changed the way that you lead and live your life?

925
00:27:17.478 --> 00:27:17.698
Well,

926
00:27:17.798 --> 00:27:17.918
yeah,

927
00:27:17.938 --> 00:27:18.199
I mean,

928
00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:19.019
grateful,

929
00:27:19.700 --> 00:27:19.960
you know,

930
00:27:20.120 --> 00:27:22.302
so grateful for every,

931
00:27:22.322 --> 00:27:23.143
you know,

932
00:27:23.383 --> 00:27:24.023
every sunset.

933
00:27:24.944 --> 00:27:40.237
grateful for every day grateful for all the opportunities that we have and you know we lost uh mikey monsoor as well a few weeks before we before we came home and you know so those those three guys um

934
00:27:40.937 --> 00:27:53.728
yeah i think about him every day and every day i i try and remember how precious life is remember this gift that they gave to us and i will not squander

935
00:27:54.256 --> 00:27:57.018
one second of this gift that we have.

936
00:27:57.498 --> 00:27:58.058
Amen to that,

937
00:27:58.078 --> 00:27:58.338
brother.

938
00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:01.700
And for the listeners who don't know Mike,

939
00:28:02.421 --> 00:28:04.962
Mike Monsoor sacrificed himself.

940
00:28:04.963 --> 00:28:07.143
He jumped on a grenade to save his teammates,

941
00:28:07.744 --> 00:28:11.386
ended up posthumously receiving the Medal of Honor,

942
00:28:12.286 --> 00:28:13.347
absolute stud as well.

943
00:28:13.927 --> 00:28:15.208
So thank you for sharing that,

944
00:28:15.248 --> 00:28:15.508
Jocko.

945
00:28:15.548 --> 00:28:15.928
I know that

946
00:28:16.909 --> 00:28:18.290
I've lost guys on the battlefield too,

947
00:28:18.291 --> 00:28:21.652
and I know that's a piece that's pretty sensitive to talk about,

948
00:28:21.692 --> 00:28:22.072
but it's...

949
00:28:22.772 --> 00:28:26.774
really important to understand what we do with that gift.

950
00:28:26.955 --> 00:28:27.495
Like you said,

951
00:28:27.496 --> 00:28:29.416
I think that's a great way of looking at it.

952
00:28:29.417 --> 00:28:29.676
It is,

953
00:28:29.836 --> 00:28:30.256
in fact,

954
00:28:30.617 --> 00:28:33.558
like at the end of Saving Private Ryan,

955
00:28:33.698 --> 00:28:36.940
Tom Hanks is on that bridge and he grabs Private Ryan and he says,

956
00:28:37.080 --> 00:28:37.540
earn this.

957
00:28:38.101 --> 00:28:41.423
That's what I try to do every day is I try to earn this life that I know

958
00:28:42.123 --> 00:28:42.723
Danny Dietz,

959
00:28:42.943 --> 00:28:48.486
I've got a plaque behind me in honor of Danny Dietz and Operation Red Wings and some of the other guys there.

960
00:28:48.487 --> 00:28:50.988
I've got another poster over here on the side of the wall.

961
00:28:51.732 --> 00:28:52.673
in honor of those guys.

962
00:28:53.093 --> 00:28:53.213
So

963
00:28:53.653 --> 00:28:54.093
I feel you,

964
00:28:54.094 --> 00:28:54.313
brother.

965
00:28:55.754 --> 00:28:55.894
Well,

966
00:28:56.534 --> 00:28:56.854
I think,

967
00:28:56.894 --> 00:28:57.075
well,

968
00:28:57.135 --> 00:28:57.375
I mean,

969
00:28:57.615 --> 00:28:59.876
the gratitude you guys are just expressing here,

970
00:29:00.356 --> 00:29:02.297
if the situation that you're talking about,

971
00:29:02.317 --> 00:29:02.617
John,

972
00:29:03.337 --> 00:29:05.618
it led us basically to this podcast in some ways.

973
00:29:05.739 --> 00:29:06.759
It did.

974
00:29:06.979 --> 00:29:08.220
Through John's Survivors Guild.

975
00:29:08.221 --> 00:29:09.200
If you want to share a little bit of that,

976
00:29:09.220 --> 00:29:09.440
John,

977
00:29:09.441 --> 00:29:09.820
with Jocko,

978
00:29:09.821 --> 00:29:11.041
it would be interesting,

979
00:29:11.042 --> 00:29:11.261
you know?

980
00:29:11.941 --> 00:29:12.061
Yeah.

981
00:29:12.402 --> 00:29:12.962
For me to share,

982
00:29:13.002 --> 00:29:13.142
Will?

983
00:29:13.722 --> 00:29:13.842
Yeah,

984
00:29:13.922 --> 00:29:15.123
go for it.

985
00:29:15.223 --> 00:29:15.343
Yeah,

986
00:29:15.423 --> 00:29:15.663
Jocko,

987
00:29:16.103 --> 00:29:17.064
just so you know,

988
00:29:17.244 --> 00:29:17.744
that's kind of what...

989
00:29:17.784 --> 00:29:20.526
it brought me to the practices of mindfulness and meditation.

990
00:29:20.566 --> 00:29:21.146
Cause initially

991
00:29:22.027 --> 00:29:22.968
I, as a,

992
00:29:23.388 --> 00:29:25.810
I was a young Lieutenant when,

993
00:29:25.930 --> 00:29:26.330
when Danny,

994
00:29:26.410 --> 00:29:27.331
when I lost Danny and I,

995
00:29:27.391 --> 00:29:32.214
it was my decision to put him on that operation because we were split between the two SDV teams.

996
00:29:32.914 --> 00:29:33.175
And,

997
00:29:33.535 --> 00:29:35.356
and then I sat in a joint operation center.

998
00:29:35.357 --> 00:29:39.919
I was not on the battlefield and strangely enough.

999
00:29:39.999 --> 00:29:41.300
Iraq with the rest of the platoon.

1000
00:29:41.701 --> 00:29:41.821
No,

1001
00:29:41.941 --> 00:29:42.161
I was,

1002
00:29:42.221 --> 00:29:43.362
I was in Afghanistan.

1003
00:29:43.442 --> 00:29:43.982
So the

1004
00:29:44.482 --> 00:29:46.464
J.D. Donaldson and the crew was.

1005
00:29:46.924 --> 00:29:47.564
down in Iraq.

1006
00:29:48.745 --> 00:29:48.865
So,

1007
00:29:50.266 --> 00:29:52.847
and I'm sure you felt this right when you weren't on the battlefield,

1008
00:29:52.867 --> 00:29:56.448
if you're sitting behind the computer doing the radio and everything else,

1009
00:29:56.748 --> 00:29:58.069
sometimes you feel less.

1010
00:29:58.982 --> 00:29:59.662
able to do something,

1011
00:29:59.663 --> 00:30:00.483
you feel more helpless,

1012
00:30:00.543 --> 00:30:00.723
right?

1013
00:30:01.383 --> 00:30:01.963
And that actually,

1014
00:30:02.103 --> 00:30:04.584
that operation affected me mentally more than any other one,

1015
00:30:05.405 --> 00:30:06.405
which brought me to,

1016
00:30:06.865 --> 00:30:09.626
ultimately brought me to the practices of mindfulness meditation.

1017
00:30:10.247 --> 00:30:10.867
And for me,

1018
00:30:11.407 --> 00:30:13.068
they have changed my life for the better,

1019
00:30:13.148 --> 00:30:14.568
but also saved my life.

1020
00:30:14.809 --> 00:30:20.531
And then they have given me the opportunity to pay back this gift by paying it forward,

1021
00:30:20.551 --> 00:30:20.971
if you will.

1022
00:30:21.451 --> 00:30:21.871
So that's,

1023
00:30:21.952 --> 00:30:22.132
yeah,

1024
00:30:22.572 --> 00:30:23.232
that great point,

1025
00:30:23.272 --> 00:30:23.432
Will.

1026
00:30:23.452 --> 00:30:25.213
Thanks for bringing that to the head.

1027
00:30:25.273 --> 00:30:25.493
Yeah.

1028
00:30:25.913 --> 00:30:26.453
It's amazing,

1029
00:30:26.493 --> 00:30:26.773
I guess,

1030
00:30:26.814 --> 00:30:27.714
what happens after.

1031
00:30:28.154 --> 00:30:29.715
something so devastating.

1032
00:30:29.915 --> 00:30:30.175
You know,

1033
00:30:30.215 --> 00:30:32.557
we move forward with more grace,

1034
00:30:32.777 --> 00:30:33.378
with more grace,

1035
00:30:33.379 --> 00:30:34.098
with more gratitude,

1036
00:30:34.099 --> 00:30:34.979
with more appreciation,

1037
00:30:35.139 --> 00:30:35.519
with more,

1038
00:30:35.939 --> 00:30:38.001
almost the heart of those people inside of you,

1039
00:30:38.561 --> 00:30:38.801
you know,

1040
00:30:38.821 --> 00:30:40.503
because their torch is no longer,

1041
00:30:40.843 --> 00:30:41.083
you know,

1042
00:30:41.203 --> 00:30:42.064
has been extinguished.

1043
00:30:43.605 --> 00:30:43.865
Jaco,

1044
00:30:43.965 --> 00:30:45.226
so Extreme Ownership,

1045
00:30:45.286 --> 00:30:45.466
like,

1046
00:30:45.646 --> 00:30:46.867
I absolutely love the book.

1047
00:30:47.007 --> 00:30:47.267
I mean,

1048
00:30:47.268 --> 00:30:48.908
I'm already giving to my students.

1049
00:30:50.089 --> 00:30:50.329
You know,

1050
00:30:50.429 --> 00:30:53.311
what in your history kind of brought you to this,

1051
00:30:53.351 --> 00:30:54.072
like,

1052
00:30:54.073 --> 00:30:54.792
core value?

1053
00:30:54.932 --> 00:30:55.253
I mean,

1054
00:30:55.254 --> 00:30:55.473
this is,

1055
00:30:55.593 --> 00:30:55.833
I mean,

1056
00:30:56.173 --> 00:30:56.373
it's,

1057
00:30:56.914 --> 00:30:57.054
Yeah,

1058
00:30:57.114 --> 00:30:57.234
I...

1059
00:30:57.434 --> 00:30:57.714
please,

1060
00:30:57.774 --> 00:30:57.954
like,

1061
00:30:58.275 --> 00:30:59.195
this is such a great book.

1062
00:30:59.475 --> 00:31:03.338
And I think that that core value has really helped me understand things in a different way.

1063
00:31:03.858 --> 00:31:05.059
What brought you to this realization?

1064
00:31:05.179 --> 00:31:05.339
Yeah,

1065
00:31:05.399 --> 00:31:05.600
really,

1066
00:31:05.740 --> 00:31:05.980
for me,

1067
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.281
it was just seeing the contrast in leadership.

1068
00:31:09.202 --> 00:31:10.223
And what I already mentioned,

1069
00:31:10.323 --> 00:31:12.304
which is you have a leader that you work for,

1070
00:31:12.324 --> 00:31:13.325
and something goes wrong,

1071
00:31:13.525 --> 00:31:15.687
and he blames everyone else and everything else.

1072
00:31:16.227 --> 00:31:21.030
And you have no respect for the guy and nothing ever gets any better because nothing's changing.

1073
00:31:21.671 --> 00:31:22.631
And then meanwhile,

1074
00:31:22.691 --> 00:31:26.614
you'd have a good leader who when something goes wrong would

1075
00:31:26.714 --> 00:31:44.839
take ownership of the problem and and not cast blame on anyone else accept the blame accept the responsibility make changes and perform better and i got to see that you know i spent my adult my entire adult life in the seal teams from the time i was i mean i enlisted when i was 17 and left

1076
00:31:44.859 --> 00:31:53.682
when i was 18 and so that's that's what i did and um so that's what i got to see and again probably because I wasn't,

1077
00:31:53.822 --> 00:31:54.062
you know.

1078
00:31:54.282 --> 00:31:54.923
wasn't the smartest,

1079
00:31:54.943 --> 00:31:55.583
wasn't the fastest,

1080
00:31:55.603 --> 00:31:56.304
wasn't the strongest,

1081
00:31:56.324 --> 00:31:57.125
wasn't the best shot.

1082
00:31:57.585 --> 00:32:02.250
I was always just kind of watching what the leaders were doing and trying to pay attention to them.

1083
00:32:02.290 --> 00:32:02.410
And,

1084
00:32:03.250 --> 00:32:05.893
and it was really obvious when you'd work for a good leader,

1085
00:32:07.054 --> 00:32:08.455
what their attitude was,

1086
00:32:08.515 --> 00:32:09.496
their humble attitude,

1087
00:32:09.516 --> 00:32:10.017
they listen,

1088
00:32:10.057 --> 00:32:11.158
they treat people with respect.

1089
00:32:11.458 --> 00:32:13.260
And then you go and work with someone that's,

1090
00:32:13.921 --> 00:32:14.161
you know,

1091
00:32:14.381 --> 00:32:14.961
a bad leader.

1092
00:32:15.322 --> 00:32:15.962
And sure enough,

1093
00:32:16.002 --> 00:32:16.983
don't listen to anybody else,

1094
00:32:17.504 --> 00:32:18.265
blame other people.

1095
00:32:18.305 --> 00:32:19.306
And it's just a disaster.

1096
00:32:19.346 --> 00:32:19.466
So

1097
00:32:20.198 --> 00:32:21.638
Getting to see that throughout my career,

1098
00:32:21.718 --> 00:32:24.879
especially in the younger days when I was a young enlisted SEAL and I saw that.

1099
00:32:24.899 --> 00:32:26.360
But you see it your whole career.

1100
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:27.640
You have good leaders and bad leaders.

1101
00:32:27.980 --> 00:32:29.241
And I just took notes.

1102
00:32:30.681 --> 00:32:30.941
Yes,

1103
00:32:31.081 --> 00:32:32.301
what to do and what not to do.

1104
00:32:33.822 --> 00:32:36.022
How has your leadership changed since you left the teams,

1105
00:32:36.082 --> 00:32:36.582
if at all?

1106
00:32:37.663 --> 00:32:41.744
Have you learned new things since you've left the teams in doing what you're doing now?

1107
00:32:42.004 --> 00:32:42.124
No,

1108
00:32:43.324 --> 00:32:47.485
the big revelation for me was just before I retired,

1109
00:32:47.505 --> 00:32:48.966
I had a friend that owned a big company.

1110
00:32:49.086 --> 00:32:49.226
and

1111
00:32:49.446 --> 00:32:51.847
he asked me to come and talk to his executives about leadership.

1112
00:32:51.927 --> 00:32:54.569
And so I went up there and I talked to his executive team.

1113
00:32:54.629 --> 00:32:57.650
And when they asked me the first question,

1114
00:32:58.371 --> 00:33:02.673
I realized that everything that I knew about leadership was applicable to all leadership situations.

1115
00:33:03.153 --> 00:33:04.714
And so that was the,

1116
00:33:05.555 --> 00:33:05.815
you know,

1117
00:33:06.235 --> 00:33:08.916
human beings are human beings and leadership is leadership.

1118
00:33:08.917 --> 00:33:12.799
And it doesn't really matter if you're in the military,

1119
00:33:12.919 --> 00:33:15.100
if you're in the civilian sector,

1120
00:33:15.120 --> 00:33:16.320
if you're part of a sports team,

1121
00:33:16.801 --> 00:33:17.561
leadership is leadership.

1122
00:33:19.402 --> 00:33:19.622
That's,

1123
00:33:20.203 --> 00:33:20.423
you know,

1124
00:33:20.424 --> 00:33:21.203
what have I changed?

1125
00:33:21.664 --> 00:33:22.564
I really haven't,

1126
00:33:22.604 --> 00:33:24.746
I really haven't changed much since I,

1127
00:33:24.866 --> 00:33:25.506
since I got out,

1128
00:33:25.526 --> 00:33:27.267
I learned more of the business cases and,

1129
00:33:27.608 --> 00:33:27.848
you know,

1130
00:33:27.849 --> 00:33:29.329
I have some businesses myself,

1131
00:33:29.469 --> 00:33:32.491
so applying those to the businesses is mandatory.

1132
00:33:34.212 --> 00:33:34.372
But,

1133
00:33:34.452 --> 00:33:34.733
but yeah,

1134
00:33:34.753 --> 00:33:35.933
the leadership is leadership.

1135
00:33:35.953 --> 00:33:36.073
And,

1136
00:33:36.254 --> 00:33:36.554
and I think,

1137
00:33:36.574 --> 00:33:36.774
you know,

1138
00:33:36.775 --> 00:33:40.576
there's obviously there's some stereotypes that people have,

1139
00:33:40.617 --> 00:33:40.897
which are,

1140
00:33:41.057 --> 00:33:46.080
which are derived from actual leadership,

1141
00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:46.400
right?

1142
00:33:46.561 --> 00:33:47.121
Because there's,

1143
00:33:47.621 --> 00:33:47.861
you know,

1144
00:33:47.862 --> 00:33:48.142
There's a...

1145
00:33:49.110 --> 00:33:53.191
a great book called The Psychology of Military Incompetence.

1146
00:33:53.391 --> 00:33:57.172
And it talks about the fact that the military,

1147
00:33:57.173 --> 00:33:58.533
when you look at it from the outside,

1148
00:33:59.173 --> 00:33:59.793
it's a very,

1149
00:33:59.993 --> 00:34:00.253
you know,

1150
00:34:01.113 --> 00:34:01.713
uniformed,

1151
00:34:01.833 --> 00:34:03.354
disciplined looking organization,

1152
00:34:03.414 --> 00:34:05.194
very hierarchical structure.

1153
00:34:05.875 --> 00:34:08.575
And people that are attracted to that,

1154
00:34:09.475 --> 00:34:11.056
that have that type of mentality,

1155
00:34:11.756 --> 00:34:12.636
they go in the military.

1156
00:34:12.676 --> 00:34:14.537
And the reason they go in the military is because they think,

1157
00:34:14.637 --> 00:34:14.757
oh,

1158
00:34:14.857 --> 00:34:16.477
now everyone has to listen to my ideas.

1159
00:34:16.557 --> 00:34:17.998
Now everyone has to obey me.

1160
00:34:18.098 --> 00:34:18.678
Now everyone.

1161
00:34:18.946 --> 00:34:21.807
to follow these rigid rules that I put together.

1162
00:34:22.467 --> 00:34:23.787
And so it attracts people,

1163
00:34:24.127 --> 00:34:26.568
it attracts some people with like an authoritarian mindset.

1164
00:34:27.148 --> 00:34:31.570
And what really is kind of sad is that that authoritarian mindset in some cases in the military,

1165
00:34:31.610 --> 00:34:32.610
especially during peacetime,

1166
00:34:33.090 --> 00:34:34.410
can flourish because,

1167
00:34:35.211 --> 00:34:35.471
you know,

1168
00:34:35.511 --> 00:34:36.331
if I'm telling you,

1169
00:34:36.511 --> 00:34:36.651
hey,

1170
00:34:36.731 --> 00:34:36.971
Will,

1171
00:34:38.031 --> 00:34:38.932
you meet me at the barracks,

1172
00:34:38.952 --> 00:34:39.872
I want your room,

1173
00:34:39.892 --> 00:34:40.852
I'm going to inspect your room.

1174
00:34:41.132 --> 00:34:43.793
And if your room isn't ready and your uniform isn't squared away,

1175
00:34:44.093 --> 00:34:45.894
then I'm going to have you on KP duty,

1176
00:34:46.074 --> 00:34:46.294
right?

1177
00:34:47.374 --> 00:34:48.135
And what are you going to do?

1178
00:34:48.296 --> 00:34:49.417
You're going to do what I told you to do.

1179
00:34:49.577 --> 00:34:50.899
And so are the rest of the privates.

1180
00:34:50.939 --> 00:34:53.944
And we're going to get inspected by my senior leader.

1181
00:34:53.945 --> 00:34:54.465
And he's going to go,

1182
00:34:54.505 --> 00:34:54.805
Jocko,

1183
00:34:54.845 --> 00:34:55.266
great job.

1184
00:34:55.326 --> 00:34:56.007
You're getting promoted.

1185
00:34:56.908 --> 00:34:58.731
And so there is an element of that.

1186
00:34:59.379 --> 00:34:59.859
And by the way,

1187
00:34:59.899 --> 00:35:00.360
that element,

1188
00:35:00.460 --> 00:35:04.322
I've worked with hundreds and hundreds of civilian companies now,

1189
00:35:04.362 --> 00:35:05.923
that element exists in the civilian world too,

1190
00:35:06.983 --> 00:35:11.085
but it's over the longterm is not a functional form of leadership.

1191
00:35:11.385 --> 00:35:11.686
And,

1192
00:35:12.226 --> 00:35:13.947
and especially in the military,

1193
00:35:13.987 --> 00:35:15.928
when you get into combat situations in combat,

1194
00:35:17.229 --> 00:35:17.349
you,

1195
00:35:17.789 --> 00:35:19.870
if you have that type of rigid mindset,

1196
00:35:19.950 --> 00:35:20.070
you,

1197
00:35:20.410 --> 00:35:23.152
you're not going to do a good job because you're trying,

1198
00:35:23.192 --> 00:35:23.632
you want,

1199
00:35:23.672 --> 00:35:24.833
you think everyone should listen to you.

1200
00:35:25.573 --> 00:35:25.893
By the way,

1201
00:35:25.993 --> 00:35:26.113
you,

1202
00:35:26.253 --> 00:35:26.974
including the enemy,

1203
00:35:27.134 --> 00:35:28.575
you think the enemy should listen to you.

1204
00:35:31.124 --> 00:35:32.685
The enemy doesn't show up to your op plan.

1205
00:35:32.725 --> 00:35:34.186
They're not going to do what you expect them to do.

1206
00:35:34.726 --> 00:35:41.310
And so you've got to really just have an open mind and be creative and be adaptable to what's happening.

1207
00:35:42.410 --> 00:35:43.211
And that's what works.

1208
00:35:43.212 --> 00:35:44.672
And it works in the civilian sector as well.

1209
00:35:45.052 --> 00:35:45.192
Now,

1210
00:35:45.412 --> 00:35:45.552
look,

1211
00:35:45.572 --> 00:35:48.674
are there times when you have to flex for a moment?

1212
00:35:49.814 --> 00:35:51.475
And hey,

1213
00:35:51.595 --> 00:35:52.996
if John and I were in a firefight and I said,

1214
00:35:53.096 --> 00:35:53.356
John,

1215
00:35:54.037 --> 00:35:54.597
flank right,

1216
00:35:54.897 --> 00:35:55.498
John would be like,

1217
00:35:55.518 --> 00:35:55.698
cool,

1218
00:35:55.758 --> 00:35:56.058
got it.

1219
00:35:57.579 --> 00:35:58.139
Most of the time.

1220
00:35:58.811 --> 00:36:00.452
There's a chance that even if I was senior to John,

1221
00:36:00.472 --> 00:36:00.692
I said,

1222
00:36:00.732 --> 00:36:01.432
John flank right.

1223
00:36:01.612 --> 00:36:03.312
He might look back at me and say negative.

1224
00:36:04.593 --> 00:36:05.313
See something you don't.

1225
00:36:05.713 --> 00:36:06.733
You just see something I don't see.

1226
00:36:06.953 --> 00:36:07.574
And then I'd say,

1227
00:36:07.634 --> 00:36:07.814
well,

1228
00:36:07.894 --> 00:36:08.014
hey,

1229
00:36:08.054 --> 00:36:09.754
I need some cover fire so I can move.

1230
00:36:09.755 --> 00:36:10.034
And he goes,

1231
00:36:10.074 --> 00:36:10.314
okay,

1232
00:36:10.574 --> 00:36:10.774
cool.

1233
00:36:10.814 --> 00:36:11.755
Let me move over to the left.

1234
00:36:11.815 --> 00:36:11.995
Cool.

1235
00:36:12.035 --> 00:36:12.355
Got it.

1236
00:36:12.395 --> 00:36:12.515
Go.

1237
00:36:13.175 --> 00:36:15.156
So there are occasions,

1238
00:36:15.216 --> 00:36:17.016
but the vast majority of the time,

1239
00:36:18.517 --> 00:36:20.697
that type of leadership is just bad.

1240
00:36:21.517 --> 00:36:21.817
And so

1241
00:36:22.558 --> 00:36:24.518
I didn't lead that way when I was in the military.

1242
00:36:24.519 --> 00:36:25.899
I don't lead that way in the civilian sector.

1243
00:36:26.139 --> 00:36:26.419
You know,

1244
00:36:26.439 --> 00:36:27.239
that's the.

1245
00:36:28.259 --> 00:36:29.339
I never yelled at anybody.

1246
00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:31.820
I always felt like if you had to yell at someone as a leader,

1247
00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:36.381
you've messed up about 38 times prior to having one.

1248
00:36:36.641 --> 00:36:37.482
Extreme ownership.

1249
00:36:37.642 --> 00:36:38.362
Yeah.

1250
00:36:38.902 --> 00:36:39.022
So,

1251
00:36:39.822 --> 00:36:41.223
never yelled and screamed at people.

1252
00:36:42.643 --> 00:36:44.104
Don't do it in the civilian sector either.

1253
00:36:44.184 --> 00:36:44.304
So,

1254
00:36:44.804 --> 00:36:44.924
yeah,

1255
00:36:45.044 --> 00:36:46.004
nothing's really changed.

1256
00:36:47.465 --> 00:36:48.825
Taking ownership of what's happening,

1257
00:36:49.185 --> 00:36:49.925
cover move simple,

1258
00:36:49.985 --> 00:36:50.425
prioritize,

1259
00:36:50.485 --> 00:36:50.766
execute,

1260
00:36:50.767 --> 00:36:51.546
decentralized command,

1261
00:36:51.566 --> 00:36:55.707
those things work no matter what leadership endeavor you're pursuing.

1262
00:36:56.087 --> 00:36:57.128
what does that look like in a fam?

1263
00:36:57.208 --> 00:36:57.768
We have a question.

1264
00:36:57.769 --> 00:36:58.889
What does that look like in the family?

1265
00:36:58.989 --> 00:36:59.229
Like,

1266
00:36:59.369 --> 00:37:01.211
or decentralizing command or,

1267
00:37:01.471 --> 00:37:01.911
I mean,

1268
00:37:02.011 --> 00:37:02.311
you know,

1269
00:37:02.411 --> 00:37:02.572
like,

1270
00:37:02.573 --> 00:37:03.272
what does that look like?

1271
00:37:04.353 --> 00:37:04.473
Yeah.

1272
00:37:04.553 --> 00:37:07.235
So the way it looks in the family is it looks exactly the same.

1273
00:37:07.255 --> 00:37:15.440
The only variable being that you're more emotional with your family because you look worst case scenario will,

1274
00:37:15.721 --> 00:37:17.542
if you work for me and you just,

1275
00:37:18.042 --> 00:37:24.747
you just do the dumbest things and you make this mistake and you make another mistake and you don't take ownership and you blame other people eventually.

1276
00:37:25.167 --> 00:37:25.888
I counsel you,

1277
00:37:25.968 --> 00:37:26.508
I coach you,

1278
00:37:26.509 --> 00:37:27.369
and eventually I fire you.

1279
00:37:29.270 --> 00:37:29.390
Well,

1280
00:37:29.430 --> 00:37:30.771
you can't fire your kids.

1281
00:37:30.791 --> 00:37:31.451
You can't fire.

1282
00:37:34.414 --> 00:37:36.295
And so we're kind of stuck with them.

1283
00:37:36.455 --> 00:37:39.977
And we also see our family as reflections of us and they represent us.

1284
00:37:39.997 --> 00:37:41.578
And we have that feeling about our companies as well,

1285
00:37:41.699 --> 00:37:41.919
right?

1286
00:37:41.959 --> 00:37:42.499
Like we have,

1287
00:37:42.539 --> 00:37:43.160
you know,

1288
00:37:43.220 --> 00:37:44.881
our companies reflect who we are,

1289
00:37:45.361 --> 00:37:46.802
but our families reflect even more.

1290
00:37:46.862 --> 00:37:47.383
So therefore,

1291
00:37:47.384 --> 00:37:49.024
it drives us to be a little bit more emotional.

1292
00:37:49.524 --> 00:37:49.864
And so,

1293
00:37:50.385 --> 00:37:52.426
but what does decentralized command look like in a family?

1294
00:37:52.506 --> 00:37:52.626
Oh,

1295
00:37:52.627 --> 00:37:53.787
I can tell you exactly what it looks like.

1296
00:37:54.275 --> 00:37:55.636
My kids are making their own lunch,

1297
00:37:56.477 --> 00:37:56.697
right?

1298
00:37:56.717 --> 00:37:58.018
There you go.

1299
00:37:58.019 --> 00:37:59.179
They're making their own lunch.

1300
00:38:00.439 --> 00:38:02.341
What does prioritize and execute look like in a family?

1301
00:38:02.421 --> 00:38:02.581
Well,

1302
00:38:02.721 --> 00:38:03.141
guess what?

1303
00:38:03.542 --> 00:38:11.227
There's times where one kid's season is going to prioritize over another kid's season who's just doing practices right now.

1304
00:38:11.228 --> 00:38:12.488
And now we're focused on this other kid.

1305
00:38:13.509 --> 00:38:14.349
Keeping things simple,

1306
00:38:14.609 --> 00:38:15.710
very important as a family.

1307
00:38:16.010 --> 00:38:18.152
Does the family understand what our goals are as a family?

1308
00:38:18.172 --> 00:38:20.334
Do they understand what our financial goals are?

1309
00:38:20.434 --> 00:38:22.055
Do they understand where we're trying to get to?

1310
00:38:22.595 --> 00:38:23.715
Are we communicating in a simple,

1311
00:38:23.755 --> 00:38:23.895
clear,

1312
00:38:23.915 --> 00:38:25.456
concise manner that everyone understands?

1313
00:38:26.296 --> 00:38:26.676
And finally,

1314
00:38:26.716 --> 00:38:27.276
cover and move.

1315
00:38:27.937 --> 00:38:28.137
Like,

1316
00:38:28.437 --> 00:38:29.677
that's real simple to see.

1317
00:38:30.017 --> 00:38:32.438
If you don't cover and move with your spouse,

1318
00:38:33.318 --> 00:38:34.318
everything's going to fall apart.

1319
00:38:35.179 --> 00:38:35.479
You know,

1320
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:36.099
like there's,

1321
00:38:36.679 --> 00:38:36.839
hey,

1322
00:38:37.439 --> 00:38:39.520
I'm going to go to the wrestling tournament this weekend.

1323
00:38:39.600 --> 00:38:41.160
You go to the,

1324
00:38:41.161 --> 00:38:41.361
you know,

1325
00:38:41.381 --> 00:38:43.541
you take the other kid up to their camp that they're going to.

1326
00:38:43.581 --> 00:38:43.741
Like,

1327
00:38:43.801 --> 00:38:45.082
that's just the way life is.

1328
00:38:45.162 --> 00:38:46.962
So the principles apply the same way.

1329
00:38:47.002 --> 00:38:49.823
But where you have to be careful is you get more emotional.

1330
00:38:50.307 --> 00:38:58.951
And you have a tendency to want to impose things more on your kids than you would on your team or your employees or your platoon.

1331
00:39:00.151 --> 00:39:01.011
And so you think,

1332
00:39:01.131 --> 00:39:01.252
oh,

1333
00:39:01.532 --> 00:39:04.253
I know what the right thing to do is for my kid.

1334
00:39:04.473 --> 00:39:05.293
I know 100%.

1335
00:39:05.913 --> 00:39:06.394
And therefore,

1336
00:39:06.395 --> 00:39:07.314
I'm going to force them to do it.

1337
00:39:07.974 --> 00:39:10.055
And people don't like to have things imposed on them.

1338
00:39:10.555 --> 00:39:15.197
It doesn't matter how benevolent you are with your intention.

1339
00:39:15.377 --> 00:39:19.299
People still don't like to have even the most benevolent of things imposed on them.

1340
00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:22.902
So you got to be careful with the kids because like,

1341
00:39:23.362 --> 00:39:23.722
John,

1342
00:39:23.903 --> 00:39:24.443
you know,

1343
00:39:24.563 --> 00:39:27.505
for a fact that it would be good for your kids to,

1344
00:39:28.406 --> 00:39:28.646
you know,

1345
00:39:28.807 --> 00:39:29.407
name the thing,

1346
00:39:30.448 --> 00:39:31.269
learn a language.

1347
00:39:31.769 --> 00:39:32.009
Like,

1348
00:39:32.349 --> 00:39:32.469
yeah,

1349
00:39:32.530 --> 00:39:33.390
that'd be so good for you.

1350
00:39:33.410 --> 00:39:34.891
Learn a language when you're six years old,

1351
00:39:35.232 --> 00:39:35.492
you'll be,

1352
00:39:35.572 --> 00:39:35.732
you'll,

1353
00:39:35.852 --> 00:39:37.494
you'll be fluent and that's going to be such a benefit.

1354
00:39:37.834 --> 00:39:39.035
So you force them to do that.

1355
00:39:40.356 --> 00:39:40.476
Oh,

1356
00:39:40.556 --> 00:39:41.557
force them to play piano.

1357
00:39:41.777 --> 00:39:42.037
Okay.

1358
00:39:42.438 --> 00:39:43.498
Let's see how it works out.

1359
00:39:43.919 --> 00:39:44.039
Now,

1360
00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:44.339
listen,

1361
00:39:44.519 --> 00:39:45.620
can you give them a nudge?

1362
00:39:45.700 --> 00:39:46.501
Can you put the piano?

1363
00:39:46.581 --> 00:39:48.503
Can you require half an hour of practice?

1364
00:39:48.504 --> 00:39:48.803
you know

1365
00:39:50.528 --> 00:39:50.789
every

1366
00:39:51.289 --> 00:39:52.671
Wednesday and Thursday and say,

1367
00:39:52.731 --> 00:39:52.931
listen,

1368
00:39:52.971 --> 00:39:54.112
I just want you to have the skill.

1369
00:39:54.453 --> 00:39:55.394
You can do some of that.

1370
00:39:55.798 --> 00:39:57.359
But if you get tyrannical with it,

1371
00:39:57.519 --> 00:39:59.020
just like in any leadership position,

1372
00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:01.022
you'll end up with a mutiny on your hands.

1373
00:40:01.023 --> 00:40:02.323
And that's not good when it's your kids.

1374
00:40:02.803 --> 00:40:03.123
Right.

1375
00:40:03.203 --> 00:40:03.323
Oh,

1376
00:40:03.343 --> 00:40:03.583
man.

1377
00:40:04.364 --> 00:40:04.884
Well said.

1378
00:40:05.124 --> 00:40:06.005
And yeah,

1379
00:40:06.365 --> 00:40:09.287
what I've found more often than not is that with kids,

1380
00:40:09.307 --> 00:40:11.549
the road to hell is paid with good intentions,

1381
00:40:11.589 --> 00:40:11.769
man.

1382
00:40:11.829 --> 00:40:13.270
Everything that I try.

1383
00:40:13.790 --> 00:40:14.391
And again,

1384
00:40:14.651 --> 00:40:15.191
like I mentioned,

1385
00:40:15.211 --> 00:40:15.452
Jocko,

1386
00:40:15.472 --> 00:40:16.312
my kids are still young,

1387
00:40:16.352 --> 00:40:19.634
so I still get the three-year-old tantrum and everything else.

1388
00:40:20.095 --> 00:40:21.876
But like this weekend,

1389
00:40:22.156 --> 00:40:23.837
I tried to take them to a movie,

1390
00:40:23.877 --> 00:40:24.478
the three kids.

1391
00:40:24.538 --> 00:40:24.698
well.

1392
00:40:24.958 --> 00:40:27.861
my wife was out for Mother's Day doing her thing.

1393
00:40:28.561 --> 00:40:35.307
And they pitched fits because they didn't get the right freaking time that they wanted to go to the movie.

1394
00:40:35.308 --> 00:40:38.389
And then one of them wanted popcorn with salt and another one wanted it without.

1395
00:40:38.449 --> 00:40:39.210
And I was like,

1396
00:40:39.211 --> 00:40:39.710
good Lord.

1397
00:40:40.231 --> 00:40:40.531
Anyhow,

1398
00:40:40.831 --> 00:40:42.353
I could go down a whole rabbit hole there.

1399
00:40:42.913 --> 00:40:45.455
But talking about the emotional side with the family,

1400
00:40:46.176 --> 00:40:48.137
that brings me to another point here.

1401
00:40:48.618 --> 00:40:50.660
As someone known for toughness,

1402
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:53.622
what are your thoughts on therapy?

1403
00:40:53.702 --> 00:40:56.523
therapy and emotional intelligence?

1404
00:40:57.183 --> 00:40:59.143
I suppose that's two different questions.

1405
00:40:59.844 --> 00:41:02.204
One of which am I super familiar with?

1406
00:41:02.524 --> 00:41:05.265
I've not gone to any kind of therapy before.

1407
00:41:07.206 --> 00:41:09.166
So I don't really know what to think of it.

1408
00:41:09.466 --> 00:41:11.787
I've asked people about it and said like,

1409
00:41:11.807 --> 00:41:11.947
well,

1410
00:41:11.948 --> 00:41:12.527
what do you think?

1411
00:41:12.607 --> 00:41:13.267
Or what would they,

1412
00:41:13.547 --> 00:41:13.787
you know,

1413
00:41:14.308 --> 00:41:16.648
I've had people on my podcast where they tell it,

1414
00:41:16.668 --> 00:41:17.929
talk about going to therapy and I'd say,

1415
00:41:17.949 --> 00:41:18.069
well,

1416
00:41:18.329 --> 00:41:19.189
what do they say to you?

1417
00:41:19.229 --> 00:41:21.330
And so,

1418
00:41:21.331 --> 00:41:21.810
uh,

1419
00:41:22.730 --> 00:41:22.850
It

1420
00:41:23.338 --> 00:41:24.519
But I know that it's like my,

1421
00:41:24.619 --> 00:41:24.839
uh,

1422
00:41:25.179 --> 00:41:27.901
my middle daughter has been on my podcast and,

1423
00:41:28.321 --> 00:41:31.783
and she went to therapy and she's great for like,

1424
00:41:31.784 --> 00:41:32.183
and she's a,

1425
00:41:32.803 --> 00:41:34.424
she's a stud of a person.

1426
00:41:35.004 --> 00:41:35.225
Um,

1427
00:41:35.665 --> 00:41:36.385
but you know,

1428
00:41:36.485 --> 00:41:37.046
she was like,

1429
00:41:38.026 --> 00:41:38.326
she got,

1430
00:41:38.446 --> 00:41:43.869
she became very obsessed with eating and what she was eating and she became high,

1431
00:41:43.929 --> 00:41:44.169
you know,

1432
00:41:44.550 --> 00:41:45.270
highly disciplined.

1433
00:41:45.290 --> 00:41:47.851
So the comments you made earlier about,

1434
00:41:47.931 --> 00:41:48.152
um,

1435
00:41:49.452 --> 00:41:49.692
is there,

1436
00:41:49.993 --> 00:41:52.154
is there such a thing as like too much discipline?

1437
00:41:52.766 --> 00:41:53.727
So my middle daughter,

1438
00:41:53.807 --> 00:41:56.950
who was a great jujitsu player,

1439
00:41:57.030 --> 00:41:58.151
great wrestler in high school,

1440
00:41:58.771 --> 00:42:00.012
and when you're wrestling,

1441
00:42:00.032 --> 00:42:00.713
you're cutting weight.

1442
00:42:00.813 --> 00:42:02.434
And so she's cutting weight through high school.

1443
00:42:03.035 --> 00:42:04.957
And by the time she got to college,

1444
00:42:05.357 --> 00:42:09.580
she's now became very obsessed with food and how much she was eating.

1445
00:42:09.621 --> 00:42:16.406
And did she want to go to a restaurant with her friends when she didn't know what the food choices were going to be?

1446
00:42:16.987 --> 00:42:17.487
And she ended up,

1447
00:42:17.488 --> 00:42:19.469
she studied nutrition science in college.

1448
00:42:19.949 --> 00:42:20.350
and she

1449
00:42:21.954 --> 00:42:27.197
She did a 10 week class that was on cooking where you had to learn how to cook food.

1450
00:42:27.217 --> 00:42:27.957
You had to learn how to,

1451
00:42:28.398 --> 00:42:29.898
and they made all these wonderful,

1452
00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:31.399
like incredible meals,

1453
00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:31.679
you know,

1454
00:42:32.180 --> 00:42:33.160
four course meals,

1455
00:42:33.240 --> 00:42:34.281
five course meals.

1456
00:42:35.221 --> 00:42:40.764
And she went through this course and she didn't eat a single bite and she got done with that.

1457
00:42:40.765 --> 00:42:41.245
And she was like,

1458
00:42:41.285 --> 00:42:41.965
this isn't right.

1459
00:42:42.666 --> 00:42:44.967
And that's when she called my wife and I was like,

1460
00:42:45.047 --> 00:42:46.848
I think I need to talk to somebody because

1461
00:42:47.248 --> 00:42:49.169
I'm thinking about food way too much.

1462
00:42:49.889 --> 00:42:50.170
And,

1463
00:42:50.250 --> 00:42:50.510
um.

1464
00:42:50.974 --> 00:42:51.314
Sure enough,

1465
00:42:51.334 --> 00:42:51.554
you know,

1466
00:42:51.555 --> 00:42:57.379
so she went and started going to a therapist and it helped her out a ton.

1467
00:42:57.659 --> 00:42:58.760
And she's like,

1468
00:42:59.120 --> 00:42:59.260
well,

1469
00:42:59.820 --> 00:43:00.701
you can check her out sometimes.

1470
00:43:00.721 --> 00:43:02.962
She's an incredible jujitsu player.

1471
00:43:03.143 --> 00:43:07.786
I think I remember you posting one time when she got a gash about her.

1472
00:43:08.206 --> 00:43:09.127
If it's the right girl.

1473
00:43:11.008 --> 00:43:12.009
So from that perspective,

1474
00:43:12.049 --> 00:43:15.611
although I've never done any of the therapy myself,

1475
00:43:16.392 --> 00:43:16.632
you know,

1476
00:43:16.792 --> 00:43:17.172
obviously

1477
00:43:17.993 --> 00:43:19.174
I'm super happy that my.

1478
00:43:20.042 --> 00:43:20.302
daughter,

1479
00:43:20.382 --> 00:43:21.043
my middle daughter,

1480
00:43:21.843 --> 00:43:22.003
uh,

1481
00:43:22.104 --> 00:43:23.164
participated in it.

1482
00:43:23.224 --> 00:43:23.545
And it's,

1483
00:43:23.725 --> 00:43:24.385
and it definitely,

1484
00:43:24.625 --> 00:43:25.846
she says it helped her out so much.

1485
00:43:25.847 --> 00:43:26.847
And I would ask her the same thing,

1486
00:43:26.867 --> 00:43:27.067
you know,

1487
00:43:27.068 --> 00:43:27.207
like,

1488
00:43:27.307 --> 00:43:28.408
what are they asking you?

1489
00:43:28.428 --> 00:43:29.449
What are they talking about?

1490
00:43:29.949 --> 00:43:30.209
And so,

1491
00:43:30.389 --> 00:43:30.629
you know,

1492
00:43:30.630 --> 00:43:30.890
I think,

1493
00:43:31.030 --> 00:43:31.350
I think,

1494
00:43:31.830 --> 00:43:31.950
uh,

1495
00:43:31.970 --> 00:43:33.211
with cert with people,

1496
00:43:33.592 --> 00:43:35.533
if you feel like you need to get some,

1497
00:43:36.073 --> 00:43:37.314
somebody to help you sort things out,

1498
00:43:37.574 --> 00:43:38.935
then I think it's very helpful.

1499
00:43:39.155 --> 00:43:39.856
And this is another thing,

1500
00:43:39.857 --> 00:43:40.036
you know,

1501
00:43:40.037 --> 00:43:40.256
I had,

1502
00:43:40.336 --> 00:43:40.496
uh,

1503
00:43:42.157 --> 00:43:43.699
I didn't really understand any of this.

1504
00:43:44.319 --> 00:43:45.600
I had Jordan Peterson,

1505
00:43:45.680 --> 00:43:48.222
who's a clinical psychologist on my podcast.

1506
00:43:48.262 --> 00:43:48.382
And

1507
00:43:49.154 --> 00:44:02.139
It was the first time that I realized that people can have mental issues that a person that trains in a certain way is going to be able to help people get through those issues.

1508
00:44:02.660 --> 00:44:03.160
And the way I,

1509
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:03.600
you know,

1510
00:44:03.620 --> 00:44:05.701
the way I talk about it now is like when you're,

1511
00:44:05.702 --> 00:44:07.262
when your car is not running correctly,

1512
00:44:07.882 --> 00:44:10.163
you take it to a mechanic and you get the car fixed.

1513
00:44:10.743 --> 00:44:13.504
And so the same thing can happen with your head that,

1514
00:44:14.064 --> 00:44:14.525
and I,

1515
00:44:14.765 --> 00:44:15.005
oh yeah,

1516
00:44:15.006 --> 00:44:15.205
it was,

1517
00:44:15.365 --> 00:44:15.605
you know,

1518
00:44:15.606 --> 00:44:16.445
he explained to me.

1519
00:44:18.326 --> 00:44:20.227
how you get somebody that's got a fear of needles,

1520
00:44:20.347 --> 00:44:21.968
how you get them to overcome the fear of needles.

1521
00:44:22.648 --> 00:44:23.408
But what was interesting,

1522
00:44:23.409 --> 00:44:24.569
so it's called exposure therapy.

1523
00:44:24.629 --> 00:44:25.689
What was interesting was

1524
00:44:26.609 --> 00:44:27.710
I have written a bunch of kids'

1525
00:44:27.750 --> 00:44:28.070
books.

1526
00:44:29.050 --> 00:44:31.231
And in one of the kids'

1527
00:44:31.271 --> 00:44:31.571
books,

1528
00:44:33.212 --> 00:44:36.213
the kid in the book is overcoming the fear of water,

1529
00:44:36.553 --> 00:44:37.294
doesn't know how to swim,

1530
00:44:37.314 --> 00:44:38.114
is afraid of water.

1531
00:44:38.634 --> 00:44:41.615
And his uncle takes him through exposure therapy.

1532
00:44:41.655 --> 00:44:41.776
Oh,

1533
00:44:41.836 --> 00:44:42.836
first we're going to go to the river.

1534
00:44:43.076 --> 00:44:44.257
Then we're going to wade in the river.

1535
00:44:44.437 --> 00:44:45.917
Then we're going to walk in the river.

1536
00:44:46.237 --> 00:44:47.618
Then we're going to dunk our heads in the river.

1537
00:44:47.978 --> 00:44:49.422
Then we're going to tread water in the river.

1538
00:44:49.742 --> 00:44:50.624
Then we're going to swim.

1539
00:44:50.765 --> 00:44:52.288
And then we're eventually going to jump off the bridge.

1540
00:44:52.368 --> 00:44:53.832
And it was just exposure therapy.

1541
00:44:54.032 --> 00:44:55.516
And it's actually something that I had done.

1542
00:44:56.212 --> 00:45:13.081
with my middle daughter who was not afraid of water but she was afraid to sing in front of a group and she wanted to be in the school play so i did exposure therapy with her first putting her i said hey go in your room and sing the song your tryout song go in your room shut the door and sing your song i'll be outside so

1543
00:45:13.101 --> 00:45:23.647
she did it and then the next day i said hey i'm gonna crack the door open sing your song and the next day i left the door open and the next day i stood in the hallway and the next day i stood in the doorway then the next day my wife and i stood in the doorway then And the next day,

1544
00:45:23.648 --> 00:45:24.608
my wife and I sat in the room.

1545
00:45:24.928 --> 00:45:26.168
Then the other kids watched,

1546
00:45:26.169 --> 00:45:27.109
then the neighbors came over,

1547
00:45:27.149 --> 00:45:28.689
and then she got the school play.

1548
00:45:29.109 --> 00:45:29.429
Awesome.

1549
00:45:29.689 --> 00:45:30.970
But that's just exposure therapy,

1550
00:45:30.971 --> 00:45:32.530
and that's something that I was able to figure out.

1551
00:45:32.590 --> 00:45:34.911
But these people that are therapists,

1552
00:45:34.931 --> 00:45:39.852
they actually have protocols for various issues that people might have.

1553
00:45:40.392 --> 00:45:42.733
So as far as therapy,

1554
00:45:43.993 --> 00:45:47.054
I think it's a thing that is very beneficial to some people.

1555
00:45:47.234 --> 00:45:48.815
And if you need it,

1556
00:45:49.295 --> 00:45:49.815
go get it.

1557
00:45:50.315 --> 00:45:51.455
And then what was the other thing?

1558
00:45:51.475 --> 00:45:52.516
Emotional intelligence.

1559
00:45:53.436 --> 00:45:53.916
so what

1560
00:45:54.656 --> 00:45:55.897
When you say emotional intelligence,

1561
00:45:55.898 --> 00:45:56.538
what do you mean by that?

1562
00:45:56.938 --> 00:45:57.238
Yes.

1563
00:45:57.578 --> 00:45:58.039
Funny enough,

1564
00:45:58.219 --> 00:45:59.860
I just had a friend ask me that very thing.

1565
00:45:59.900 --> 00:46:01.602
So to me,

1566
00:46:02.062 --> 00:46:04.484
I think what emotional intelligence means is one,

1567
00:46:05.345 --> 00:46:06.225
kind of owning the room,

1568
00:46:06.566 --> 00:46:09.148
understanding what this person is feeling,

1569
00:46:09.288 --> 00:46:12.310
how this person responds to a particular way of communicating.

1570
00:46:12.571 --> 00:46:14.292
Some people are going to respond to what it is you say.

1571
00:46:14.392 --> 00:46:16.234
Some people are going to respond to how it is you say it.

1572
00:46:16.254 --> 00:46:18.035
Some people are going to respond to your body language.

1573
00:46:18.395 --> 00:46:19.276
So understanding that.

1574
00:46:20.117 --> 00:46:24.100
Then I think taking it another step further is understanding what it is that they're going through.

1575
00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:25.620
not necessarily knowing the details,

1576
00:46:25.660 --> 00:46:26.481
but seeing that,

1577
00:46:26.861 --> 00:46:26.981
hey,

1578
00:46:27.821 --> 00:46:28.801
like you mentioned before,

1579
00:46:29.181 --> 00:46:30.802
when you were talking about somebody who's burned out,

1580
00:46:31.142 --> 00:46:36.523
maybe this person isn't showing up at work like they normally do because they've got something going on in their lives.

1581
00:46:36.524 --> 00:46:37.984
So you're aware,

1582
00:46:38.064 --> 00:46:38.904
you're attuned to that.

1583
00:46:39.324 --> 00:46:40.044
And then lastly,

1584
00:46:40.504 --> 00:46:49.447
I think there's a piece of emotional intelligence that is knowing what it is you're experiencing and then how what it is you're experiencing affects others around you,

1585
00:46:49.507 --> 00:46:49.707
right?

1586
00:46:49.807 --> 00:46:52.628
You have this energy that you bring into a room if you're feeling good,

1587
00:46:52.888 --> 00:46:53.828
if you're feeling positive.

1588
00:46:53.868 --> 00:46:57.591
But then you also have a negative energy that you can bring into a room if you're feeling kind of down.

1589
00:46:57.991 --> 00:46:59.192
So that's that's what I mean.

1590
00:46:59.352 --> 00:46:59.473
Yeah,

1591
00:46:59.474 --> 00:46:59.593
no,

1592
00:46:59.853 --> 00:47:04.997
I thought there was some connection directly between therapy and emotional intelligence that you were asking me about.

1593
00:47:05.117 --> 00:47:06.138
And I'm not necessarily.

1594
00:47:06.158 --> 00:47:06.398
Yeah,

1595
00:47:06.518 --> 00:47:06.699
yeah,

1596
00:47:07.319 --> 00:47:07.459
yeah.

1597
00:47:07.799 --> 00:47:08.260
I can help.

1598
00:47:08.560 --> 00:47:08.680
Yeah.

1599
00:47:09.020 --> 00:47:09.141
So,

1600
00:47:09.221 --> 00:47:09.341
yeah,

1601
00:47:09.401 --> 00:47:10.281
emotional intelligence.

1602
00:47:10.301 --> 00:47:10.902
And by that,

1603
00:47:10.982 --> 00:47:14.905
all that definition obviously is critical for interacting with other human beings in life.

1604
00:47:14.965 --> 00:47:15.085
And,

1605
00:47:15.806 --> 00:47:16.086
you know,

1606
00:47:17.167 --> 00:47:22.952
clearly understanding how the way you behave and the way other people are behaving is.

1607
00:47:23.392 --> 00:47:23.972
really important.

1608
00:47:23.973 --> 00:47:25.153
And speaking of kids books,

1609
00:47:25.154 --> 00:47:25.934
this is another thing I,

1610
00:47:26.875 --> 00:47:26.995
I,

1611
00:47:27.015 --> 00:47:27.135
uh,

1612
00:47:27.136 --> 00:47:28.576
in another one of my kids books,

1613
00:47:28.596 --> 00:47:32.539
there's a bully who's picking on the main character.

1614
00:47:32.579 --> 00:47:33.159
Who's named Mark.

1615
00:47:33.179 --> 00:47:34.460
Who's actually named after Mark Lee,

1616
00:47:34.900 --> 00:47:36.541
but the kid's name is Mark.

1617
00:47:36.581 --> 00:47:38.123
And he's getting picked on by this kid,

1618
00:47:38.223 --> 00:47:41.425
Nathan James and Nathan James is making fun of him.

1619
00:47:41.426 --> 00:47:42.906
And Nathan James is calling him names.

1620
00:47:42.907 --> 00:47:44.507
And Nathan James is just a real jerk.

1621
00:47:45.608 --> 00:47:46.248
And he goes,

1622
00:47:46.709 --> 00:47:48.050
the kid talks to his uncle,

1623
00:47:48.270 --> 00:47:49.551
who's a seal uncle Jake.

1624
00:47:49.711 --> 00:47:50.191
And he says,

1625
00:47:50.192 --> 00:47:50.391
you know,

1626
00:47:50.392 --> 00:47:51.232
I want to beat this kid up.

1627
00:47:51.676 --> 00:47:52.617
I've been training in jujitsu.

1628
00:47:52.637 --> 00:47:53.398
I'm ready to beat this kid,

1629
00:47:53.438 --> 00:47:53.938
Nathan James,

1630
00:47:53.998 --> 00:47:54.118
up.

1631
00:47:54.739 --> 00:47:55.079
And he says,

1632
00:47:55.159 --> 00:47:55.399
okay,

1633
00:47:55.459 --> 00:47:55.640
well,

1634
00:47:56.040 --> 00:47:56.440
you can,

1635
00:47:56.500 --> 00:47:59.003
but first you got to try and figure out why he's acting this way.

1636
00:47:59.743 --> 00:48:00.023
And so

1637
00:48:00.544 --> 00:48:05.729
Mark basically does a reconnaissance spy mission and follows Nathan James home.

1638
00:48:07.110 --> 00:48:08.691
And as he's following him home,

1639
00:48:08.692 --> 00:48:11.814
or first he observes him for a few days at school and he's a slob.

1640
00:48:12.394 --> 00:48:13.555
He eats crappy food,

1641
00:48:13.616 --> 00:48:14.676
eats potato chips.

1642
00:48:15.157 --> 00:48:16.338
His socks don't match.

1643
00:48:16.418 --> 00:48:18.340
Like he doesn't care about his appearance.

1644
00:48:19.132 --> 00:48:19.252
uh,

1645
00:48:19.253 --> 00:48:20.993
wears the same jeans every day to school,

1646
00:48:21.093 --> 00:48:22.333
just a real slob,

1647
00:48:22.373 --> 00:48:22.613
you know,

1648
00:48:22.673 --> 00:48:23.093
he's thinking,

1649
00:48:23.573 --> 00:48:24.494
doesn't care about anything.

1650
00:48:24.514 --> 00:48:28.615
And eventually he follows him and he realizes that on his way home,

1651
00:48:28.616 --> 00:48:29.495
he's picking up cans.

1652
00:48:29.496 --> 00:48:30.415
He's returning cancer.

1653
00:48:30.416 --> 00:48:32.016
He can buy some stuff at the seven 11,

1654
00:48:32.776 --> 00:48:33.716
follows him to his house.

1655
00:48:33.717 --> 00:48:38.677
He lives in a little like one bedroom apartment above an automotive repair shop.

1656
00:48:39.558 --> 00:48:40.358
No one's home.

1657
00:48:40.978 --> 00:48:42.979
Here's yelling and screaming when the mom finally gets home.

1658
00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:45.959
So he realizes that this kid comes from a really tough situation.

1659
00:48:46.540 --> 00:48:47.900
And instead of beating him up,

1660
00:48:48.708 --> 00:48:52.751
he decides he should probably try and help this kid out and feel some sense.

1661
00:48:53.592 --> 00:48:54.052
So yeah,

1662
00:48:54.132 --> 00:48:58.236
obviously a extremely important part of life is understanding other people's perspectives.

1663
00:48:59.096 --> 00:49:04.901
And the way that you do that is by communicating with them and asking earnest questions and getting to know people.

1664
00:49:05.542 --> 00:49:05.722
Yeah,

1665
00:49:06.062 --> 00:49:08.744
I actually have on the bookshelf over here,

1666
00:49:08.804 --> 00:49:09.625
not the one behind me,

1667
00:49:10.145 --> 00:49:13.308
I have some of your Way of the Warrior kid books,

1668
00:49:13.368 --> 00:49:13.568
man.

1669
00:49:14.169 --> 00:49:18.072
I love that you've taken your tough kind of persona.

1670
00:49:18.984 --> 00:49:39.976
uh that everybody like if if people look up navy seal in the in the dictionary there's going to be a picture of jocko willent beside it right you're stuck with jocko and uh and then at the same time you're writing kids books i think that's uh phenomenal it's talking about the dichotomy of leadership that is a huge dichotomy so but

1671
00:49:40.016 --> 00:49:45.880
yeah the way of the warrior kid books kid series fantastic man good stuff well one of the things that that helps to

1672
00:49:46.996 --> 00:49:49.218
actually the main component of like,

1673
00:49:49.238 --> 00:49:54.863
whether it's great leadership or emotional intelligence is understanding and actually getting to a place and,

1674
00:49:55.103 --> 00:49:56.844
and exercising like detachment.

1675
00:49:57.325 --> 00:49:57.565
You know,

1676
00:49:57.566 --> 00:49:59.186
I listened to you in a human podcast,

1677
00:49:59.206 --> 00:49:59.526
Jocko,

1678
00:49:59.587 --> 00:50:01.588
and you went off on just the,

1679
00:50:01.748 --> 00:50:03.109
just this one piece of,

1680
00:50:03.230 --> 00:50:04.411
of what detachment is,

1681
00:50:04.431 --> 00:50:05.111
what it does for you,

1682
00:50:05.171 --> 00:50:07.433
what it looks like in business and your life.

1683
00:50:07.633 --> 00:50:08.194
Um,

1684
00:50:08.314 --> 00:50:10.736
and I was really glad you got to that place because,

1685
00:50:11.216 --> 00:50:11.356
um,

1686
00:50:12.297 --> 00:50:15.700
one thing we do within mindfulness and meditation is we just like

1687
00:50:15.992 --> 00:50:17.692
we don't want to be attached to things.

1688
00:50:17.813 --> 00:50:20.733
Like we definitely don't want to be attached to our emotions because they make us,

1689
00:50:21.153 --> 00:50:21.393
you know,

1690
00:50:21.414 --> 00:50:21.994
bad leaders,

1691
00:50:22.074 --> 00:50:22.574
assholes,

1692
00:50:22.614 --> 00:50:22.794
like,

1693
00:50:23.074 --> 00:50:23.294
you know,

1694
00:50:23.314 --> 00:50:24.294
not the people they want to be.

1695
00:50:24.974 --> 00:50:26.035
So what is it about?

1696
00:50:26.155 --> 00:50:26.335
Um,

1697
00:50:26.615 --> 00:50:27.295
I love your story.

1698
00:50:27.296 --> 00:50:28.655
If you can share it with our community,

1699
00:50:29.136 --> 00:50:32.917
like how you realized how incredibly profound detachment is,

1700
00:50:33.017 --> 00:50:36.098
and then how you ended up in integrating that into basically,

1701
00:50:36.398 --> 00:50:36.638
you know,

1702
00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:37.398
the man you are today.

1703
00:50:38.158 --> 00:50:38.878
The story is,

1704
00:50:38.938 --> 00:50:39.578
and John,

1705
00:50:39.639 --> 00:50:40.439
you'll appreciate this.

1706
00:50:41.359 --> 00:50:42.919
we used to do go plats,

1707
00:50:43.019 --> 00:50:44.800
gas over platforms and out here.

1708
00:50:45.500 --> 00:50:46.341
on the West Coast,

1709
00:50:46.441 --> 00:50:50.344
we would go and hit oil rigs that are up off the coast of California.

1710
00:50:50.865 --> 00:50:52.726
And we're doing one of these clearances.

1711
00:50:52.746 --> 00:50:53.367
I was a new guy,

1712
00:50:53.427 --> 00:50:54.588
but we were done with our workup.

1713
00:50:54.828 --> 00:50:56.830
We're in our pre-deployment workup cycle.

1714
00:50:56.870 --> 00:50:59.292
So we did our full workup and I was a new guy,

1715
00:50:59.632 --> 00:51:00.132
mouth shut,

1716
00:51:00.273 --> 00:51:00.813
ears open,

1717
00:51:01.273 --> 00:51:01.814
youngest guy,

1718
00:51:02.014 --> 00:51:03.215
most junior guy in my platoon.

1719
00:51:03.615 --> 00:51:04.436
I was actually the youngest,

1720
00:51:04.476 --> 00:51:06.197
most junior guy in my first two platoons.

1721
00:51:07.539 --> 00:51:08.099
But I was,

1722
00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:11.382
so this was my first platoon and done with land warfare,

1723
00:51:11.422 --> 00:51:12.463
done with jungle warfare,

1724
00:51:12.563 --> 00:51:12.943
done with

1725
00:51:13.283 --> 00:51:13.704
CQC.

1726
00:51:15.100 --> 00:51:32.047
uh cqb i think we called it at the time close quarter paddle and then we're out there doing gas oil platforms and we're we're coming from the water line up so you know you get the the structure and we come up out of the water on a ladder and we eventually get to this big the

1727
00:51:32.127 --> 00:51:44.052
first big level of a gas oil platform it's called the cellar deck and it's sort of where the real gas oil platform starts and it's a big giant area covered with all kinds of equipment and

1728
00:51:44.352 --> 00:51:46.093
gear and pipes and just,

1729
00:51:46.153 --> 00:51:47.033
it's just a clutter.

1730
00:51:47.253 --> 00:51:47.933
It's a maze.

1731
00:51:48.853 --> 00:51:49.534
And as we,

1732
00:51:49.774 --> 00:51:54.755
as the guys ahead of me in the assault train came up the ladder to the cellar deck,

1733
00:51:54.835 --> 00:51:56.856
they realized it's a huge area that needed to be cleared.

1734
00:51:57.696 --> 00:52:01.057
And as they realized that they made the tackle call flood,

1735
00:52:01.137 --> 00:52:01.597
which means,

1736
00:52:01.657 --> 00:52:01.777
Hey,

1737
00:52:01.877 --> 00:52:03.497
we need everyone up here to clear this.

1738
00:52:03.517 --> 00:52:03.778
And so,

1739
00:52:04.338 --> 00:52:04.598
you know,

1740
00:52:04.599 --> 00:52:05.438
I'm whatever,

1741
00:52:05.878 --> 00:52:06.078
fifth,

1742
00:52:06.118 --> 00:52:06.338
sixth,

1743
00:52:06.339 --> 00:52:06.578
seventh,

1744
00:52:06.579 --> 00:52:07.659
eighth guy in the train or whatever.

1745
00:52:07.919 --> 00:52:08.919
So I come up and it's left,

1746
00:52:08.979 --> 00:52:09.159
right,

1747
00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:09.359
left,

1748
00:52:09.399 --> 00:52:09.579
right,

1749
00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:09.779
left,

1750
00:52:09.839 --> 00:52:10.059
right.

1751
00:52:10.060 --> 00:52:10.299
And I,

1752
00:52:10.620 --> 00:52:10.860
you know,

1753
00:52:10.861 --> 00:52:12.120
I come up and go left and I'm.

1754
00:52:12.628 --> 00:52:14.069
moving down and I'm scanning for targets.

1755
00:52:14.070 --> 00:52:15.309
I'm looking down the side of my weapon.

1756
00:52:17.030 --> 00:52:20.392
And so what we end up with is like a skirmish line where behind us is the ocean.

1757
00:52:20.572 --> 00:52:21.993
And in front of us is this massive,

1758
00:52:22.093 --> 00:52:22.673
confusing,

1759
00:52:22.973 --> 00:52:26.055
complex maze of a area that needs to be cleared.

1760
00:52:26.815 --> 00:52:28.036
And I'm looking down my weapon and

1761
00:52:28.536 --> 00:52:29.897
I'm scanning for targets.

1762
00:52:31.177 --> 00:52:32.978
And like five seconds goes by,

1763
00:52:34.019 --> 00:52:35.039
10 seconds goes by,

1764
00:52:35.339 --> 00:52:36.240
no one's making a call.

1765
00:52:37.472 --> 00:52:38.593
15 seconds goes by.

1766
00:52:38.594 --> 00:52:39.714
I'm waiting for my platoon commander.

1767
00:52:39.715 --> 00:52:40.835
I'm waiting for my platoon chief,

1768
00:52:40.915 --> 00:52:41.776
my LPO to make a call.

1769
00:52:41.796 --> 00:52:42.517
No one's making a call.

1770
00:52:43.698 --> 00:52:44.098
And finally,

1771
00:52:44.118 --> 00:52:45.099
I just can't take it anymore.

1772
00:52:45.819 --> 00:52:52.485
And I'm staring down my weapon and I just high port my weapon and I take a step back and I look to my left and I look to my right.

1773
00:52:53.726 --> 00:52:58.410
And what I see is every other guy in my platoon is staring down their weapon and scanning for targets,

1774
00:52:59.231 --> 00:53:00.252
including my platoon chief,

1775
00:53:00.552 --> 00:53:01.593
including my platoon commander,

1776
00:53:01.713 --> 00:53:02.954
including my assistant platoon commander,

1777
00:53:03.274 --> 00:53:04.015
including my LPO,

1778
00:53:04.135 --> 00:53:04.996
my leading petty officer.

1779
00:53:05.376 --> 00:53:09.037
Everyone staring down the sights of their weapons and no one's making a call.

1780
00:53:09.437 --> 00:53:13.178
And so I look at it and it's like a real simple call to make.

1781
00:53:14.358 --> 00:53:16.339
And I just summoned up the courage.

1782
00:53:16.399 --> 00:53:16.739
I'm like,

1783
00:53:16.999 --> 00:53:17.459
hold left,

1784
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:18.019
clear right.

1785
00:53:18.100 --> 00:53:21.040
And I braced for someone to smack me upside the head.

1786
00:53:22.041 --> 00:53:23.381
And sure enough,

1787
00:53:23.401 --> 00:53:24.341
instead of getting smacked,

1788
00:53:24.841 --> 00:53:25.862
the platoon passed the call.

1789
00:53:26.002 --> 00:53:26.362
Hold left,

1790
00:53:26.382 --> 00:53:26.722
clear right.

1791
00:53:26.762 --> 00:53:27.062
Hold left,

1792
00:53:27.102 --> 00:53:27.442
clear right.

1793
00:53:27.482 --> 00:53:28.082
Hold left,

1794
00:53:28.102 --> 00:53:28.482
clear right.

1795
00:53:28.502 --> 00:53:29.683
We on the left held.

1796
00:53:29.703 --> 00:53:30.983
The people on the right cleared through.

1797
00:53:31.723 --> 00:53:32.423
We carried through.

1798
00:53:32.424 --> 00:53:34.264
We cleared the rest of the target.

1799
00:53:34.668 --> 00:53:36.049
Got to the helo deck on top,

1800
00:53:36.089 --> 00:53:36.929
which meant we were done.

1801
00:53:37.729 --> 00:53:38.890
And we get ready to debrief.

1802
00:53:38.910 --> 00:53:42.091
And now I'm thinking I'm going to get smacked in the head because I was running my mouth as a new guy.

1803
00:53:43.071 --> 00:53:43.472
And instead,

1804
00:53:43.473 --> 00:53:44.352
the platoon chief goes,

1805
00:53:44.372 --> 00:53:44.492
hey,

1806
00:53:44.552 --> 00:53:44.812
Jocko,

1807
00:53:44.892 --> 00:53:47.333
good job making the call on the cellar deck.

1808
00:53:48.394 --> 00:53:48.854
And I said,

1809
00:53:49.634 --> 00:53:49.854
cool.

1810
00:53:50.254 --> 00:53:50.775
And for a moment,

1811
00:53:50.795 --> 00:53:51.135
I thought,

1812
00:53:51.535 --> 00:53:51.695
yeah,

1813
00:53:51.755 --> 00:53:52.195
that's right.

1814
00:53:52.295 --> 00:53:52.956
I'm badass.

1815
00:53:54.756 --> 00:53:55.497
Then I thought to myself,

1816
00:53:55.577 --> 00:53:56.117
wait a second.

1817
00:53:57.197 --> 00:54:00.999
How is it that I am the youngest guy in this platoon,

1818
00:54:01.099 --> 00:54:02.439
the most junior guy in this platoon,

1819
00:54:02.860 --> 00:54:03.580
and I knew what to do?

1820
00:54:04.308 --> 00:54:06.269
And my platoon chief didn't and my OIC didn't.

1821
00:54:06.270 --> 00:54:07.070
How did that even happen?

1822
00:54:07.970 --> 00:54:10.712
And I realized it was because I took a step back and I looked around.

1823
00:54:10.732 --> 00:54:12.973
I didn't get tunnel vision down my weapon.

1824
00:54:13.974 --> 00:54:16.615
And that what I now call detaching,

1825
00:54:16.655 --> 00:54:17.716
detaching from the chaos,

1826
00:54:17.736 --> 00:54:23.659
detaching from the scenario in front of me and detaching from my own emotions because,

1827
00:54:23.660 --> 00:54:23.959
of course,

1828
00:54:23.960 --> 00:54:24.399
I'm fired up.

1829
00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:25.220
I want to engage a target.

1830
00:54:26.220 --> 00:54:27.441
That's what happened to everyone else.

1831
00:54:27.442 --> 00:54:28.102
They're all fired up,

1832
00:54:28.182 --> 00:54:28.742
all emotional,

1833
00:54:28.802 --> 00:54:29.722
all want to engage a target.

1834
00:54:30.623 --> 00:54:30.883
And so

1835
00:54:31.383 --> 00:54:32.364
I started applying that.

1836
00:54:32.832 --> 00:54:33.673
In land warfare,

1837
00:54:33.674 --> 00:54:36.715
I started applying it in urban warfare.

1838
00:54:36.775 --> 00:54:38.156
But then most important,

1839
00:54:38.157 --> 00:54:42.919
I started applying it interacting with just people and making sure I wasn't getting emotional,

1840
00:54:43.319 --> 00:54:44.240
making sure I wasn't.

1841
00:54:44.580 --> 00:54:45.921
that I was seeing as much as I could see,

1842
00:54:46.001 --> 00:54:46.561
looking around,

1843
00:54:46.601 --> 00:54:47.622
seeing different perspectives.

1844
00:54:48.182 --> 00:54:53.046
And it was really the foundation of my life.

1845
00:54:53.846 --> 00:54:54.987
And then from there,

1846
00:54:55.227 --> 00:54:55.547
again,

1847
00:54:56.408 --> 00:54:57.689
I've had,

1848
00:54:59.590 --> 00:55:00.771
in my second platoon,

1849
00:55:01.532 --> 00:55:07.576
we had a terrible platoon commander who was a tyrant and egotistical and arrogant.

1850
00:55:07.896 --> 00:55:09.597
And we had a mutiny against him and we got him fired.

1851
00:55:10.418 --> 00:55:13.820
And the guy that took over for him was a legendary seal.

1852
00:55:14.476 --> 00:55:15.317
best guy ever,

1853
00:55:16.997 --> 00:55:19.319
had gone up through the enlisted ranks to senior chief.

1854
00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:22.040
So almost to the top of the enlisted ranks before he got commissioned,

1855
00:55:22.461 --> 00:55:25.742
he had been stationed at every different type of SEAL team.

1856
00:55:25.743 --> 00:55:27.423
He was an underwater demolition team.

1857
00:55:27.824 --> 00:55:28.584
He was at SDV.

1858
00:55:28.884 --> 00:55:29.905
He was at a boat team.

1859
00:55:29.965 --> 00:55:31.145
He was at our tier one team.

1860
00:55:31.146 --> 00:55:32.706
He was a plank owner at our tier one team,

1861
00:55:32.746 --> 00:55:33.687
just a legendary guy.

1862
00:55:34.908 --> 00:55:36.068
He had combat experience.

1863
00:55:36.148 --> 00:55:37.889
No one had combat experience in the 90s.

1864
00:55:39.070 --> 00:55:39.490
He was in

1865
00:55:40.010 --> 00:55:42.652
Grenada. And so he was a legendary guy.

1866
00:55:43.968 --> 00:55:45.329
And yet when he took over our platoon,

1867
00:55:45.609 --> 00:55:46.690
just the most humble guy,

1868
00:55:47.211 --> 00:55:48.071
let us run things,

1869
00:55:48.132 --> 00:55:49.312
listen to what we had to say,

1870
00:55:49.913 --> 00:55:51.935
never like raised his voice ever.

1871
00:55:52.255 --> 00:55:53.616
And that's the guy that I always tried to,

1872
00:55:54.016 --> 00:55:55.117
that's the guy I always tried to emulate.

1873
00:55:55.738 --> 00:55:58.200
And so that's where the detachment came in,

1874
00:55:58.380 --> 00:56:03.985
followed up by the hard dose of humility from that platoon commander in my second platoon.

1875
00:56:04.285 --> 00:56:04.525
Yeah,

1876
00:56:05.266 --> 00:56:08.448
I can kind of relate to both of those.

1877
00:56:08.449 --> 00:56:08.688
Actually,

1878
00:56:08.689 --> 00:56:10.810
I can relate to the first story from the other side.

1879
00:56:10.870 --> 00:56:13.132
I had target fixation when I was doing it.

1880
00:56:13.172 --> 00:56:13.852
doing CQC.

1881
00:56:14.112 --> 00:56:14.932
So for those listening,

1882
00:56:14.952 --> 00:56:16.233
that's close quarters combat,

1883
00:56:16.593 --> 00:56:17.973
basically learning how to clear a house.

1884
00:56:17.974 --> 00:56:19.394
You start with learning how to clear a room,

1885
00:56:19.395 --> 00:56:20.414
then you clear hallways,

1886
00:56:20.474 --> 00:56:21.054
clear a house.

1887
00:56:21.654 --> 00:56:22.995
And man,

1888
00:56:23.055 --> 00:56:23.275
I was,

1889
00:56:23.535 --> 00:56:24.475
as a platoon commander,

1890
00:56:24.495 --> 00:56:26.956
I got target fixation on clearing one particular room.

1891
00:56:27.696 --> 00:56:30.417
And I remember an E-5 doing very similar thing to you,

1892
00:56:30.737 --> 00:56:31.077
Jocko.

1893
00:56:31.237 --> 00:56:32.877
And afterwards we did the same thing.

1894
00:56:32.897 --> 00:56:33.277
I was like,

1895
00:56:33.297 --> 00:56:33.518
Hey man,

1896
00:56:35.238 --> 00:56:35.978
I screwed that up.

1897
00:56:36.018 --> 00:56:36.758
I got way,

1898
00:56:37.359 --> 00:56:38.719
I got front side focused,

1899
00:56:38.759 --> 00:56:38.959
right?

1900
00:56:38.979 --> 00:56:40.379
There's a time to be front side focused.

1901
00:56:40.380 --> 00:56:42.440
And then there's a time to step back and take a look.

1902
00:56:42.780 --> 00:56:47.141
what's happening around you have that overall situational or tactical awareness.

1903
00:56:48.102 --> 00:56:51.883
And the other side is the humble badass.

1904
00:56:52.563 --> 00:56:54.343
When I checked into SDV Team 2,

1905
00:56:54.344 --> 00:56:55.284
that was my first team,

1906
00:56:56.684 --> 00:56:57.444
you may know this guy,

1907
00:56:57.584 --> 00:56:58.585
Warrant Officer Johnson.

1908
00:56:59.825 --> 00:57:01.646
He was a wojo is what we call them.

1909
00:57:01.846 --> 00:57:06.647
He was this older redhead guy and he was a crusty bastard.

1910
00:57:08.388 --> 00:57:09.788
We check in or I check in and

1911
00:57:10.108 --> 00:57:10.789
He walks down.

1912
00:57:10.790 --> 00:57:11.069
He's like,

1913
00:57:11.070 --> 00:57:11.309
all right,

1914
00:57:11.310 --> 00:57:11.489
guys,

1915
00:57:11.490 --> 00:57:12.330
we're getting ready for PT.

1916
00:57:12.490 --> 00:57:13.010
And I look at him.

1917
00:57:13.011 --> 00:57:13.291
I'm like,

1918
00:57:13.471 --> 00:57:13.831
what the?

1919
00:57:14.071 --> 00:57:15.873
This old man is going to be leading PT?

1920
00:57:16.934 --> 00:57:19.236
That old dude freaking brushed us,

1921
00:57:19.836 --> 00:57:20.537
brushed us.

1922
00:57:21.037 --> 00:57:21.678
And I remember,

1923
00:57:22.338 --> 00:57:22.578
you know,

1924
00:57:22.638 --> 00:57:24.120
after a year and a half at

1925
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:25.200
SDV Team 2,

1926
00:57:25.260 --> 00:57:26.441
he had had heart surgery.

1927
00:57:27.783 --> 00:57:32.106
And he was complaining about how few push-ups he was able to do after having heart surgery.

1928
00:57:32.107 --> 00:57:35.109
And it was several hundred a day still after heart surgery.

1929
00:57:35.110 --> 00:57:35.389
I was like,

1930
00:57:35.729 --> 00:57:36.550
this guy is a machine.

1931
00:57:36.570 --> 00:57:37.731
But anyhow,

1932
00:57:38.351 --> 00:57:39.012
I digress.

1933
00:57:40.373 --> 00:57:40.893
You know,

1934
00:57:41.533 --> 00:57:44.995
coming back to the cost of discipline,

1935
00:57:45.295 --> 00:57:49.358
and I think this is kind of a similar question to what we asked earlier.

1936
00:57:49.858 --> 00:57:54.060
When it comes to living that life of discipline and presence,

1937
00:57:54.100 --> 00:57:54.321
I mean,

1938
00:57:54.322 --> 00:57:57.482
we talked about kind of discipline and presence both being together.

1939
00:57:57.542 --> 00:57:58.763
They're not mutually exclusive.

1940
00:57:59.924 --> 00:58:00.604
What do you think,

1941
00:58:01.004 --> 00:58:01.765
from your side,

1942
00:58:02.645 --> 00:58:05.187
what's the cost of not doing the work?

1943
00:58:05.347 --> 00:58:07.228
I guess that's where you start living in chat.

1944
00:58:07.448 --> 00:58:11.791
shackles or you kind of start living as a prisoner of not doing it.

1945
00:58:11.792 --> 00:58:12.512
What do you think?

1946
00:58:12.732 --> 00:58:24.179
I think the real extreme case of that is when you see somebody that's homeless and addicted to drugs and reliant upon people giving them money so they can get enough food to survive.

1947
00:58:24.199 --> 00:58:24.380
I mean,

1948
00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:26.961
that's sort of the ultimate form of slavery,

1949
00:58:27.482 --> 00:58:28.382
at least in America,

1950
00:58:28.622 --> 00:58:29.323
in my opinion.

1951
00:58:29.603 --> 00:58:29.823
Like,

1952
00:58:29.923 --> 00:58:30.083
oh,

1953
00:58:30.143 --> 00:58:36.228
you are addicted to drugs and you require other people to be able to sustain yourself.

1954
00:58:36.996 --> 00:58:37.556
That seems to me,

1955
00:58:38.277 --> 00:58:39.878
and that begins with someone that,

1956
00:58:40.038 --> 00:58:40.178
oh,

1957
00:58:40.298 --> 00:58:40.979
I want to have freedom.

1958
00:58:41.179 --> 00:58:41.879
I want to do what I want.

1959
00:58:41.899 --> 00:58:42.500
I want to party.

1960
00:58:42.700 --> 00:58:43.340
I want to drink.

1961
00:58:43.761 --> 00:58:45.282
I want to occasionally do some drugs,

1962
00:58:45.402 --> 00:58:45.642
you know,

1963
00:58:45.643 --> 00:58:46.443
whatever the case may be.

1964
00:58:46.463 --> 00:58:47.784
And I think you see where that ends up.

1965
00:58:48.484 --> 00:58:49.084
So yeah,

1966
00:58:49.184 --> 00:58:50.605
I think you're,

1967
00:58:50.606 --> 00:58:50.986
you just,

1968
00:58:51.086 --> 00:58:53.728
you just end up in situations that are not ideal.

1969
00:58:54.288 --> 00:58:54.568
And,

1970
00:58:55.289 --> 00:58:55.529
you know,

1971
00:58:55.530 --> 00:58:57.030
and I'm not saying life is always ideal.

1972
00:58:57.210 --> 00:59:01.053
Like life is hard and there's things that are major challenges in life.

1973
00:59:01.073 --> 00:59:05.596
And sometimes there are things in life that you can't take ownership of.

1974
00:59:06.112 --> 00:59:06.873
For instance,

1975
00:59:07.473 --> 00:59:13.398
your kid gets some kind of a horrible disease that you have no control over it.

1976
00:59:13.939 --> 00:59:14.059
Well,

1977
00:59:14.060 --> 00:59:15.039
how do you take ownership of that?

1978
00:59:15.120 --> 00:59:15.280
Well,

1979
00:59:15.300 --> 00:59:16.701
you take ownership of how you respond.

1980
00:59:16.741 --> 00:59:17.421
And it's the same thing.

1981
00:59:17.522 --> 00:59:17.762
You know,

1982
00:59:17.763 --> 00:59:18.562
you lose your job.

1983
00:59:19.163 --> 00:59:19.323
Look,

1984
00:59:19.383 --> 00:59:19.984
you got cut.

1985
00:59:20.044 --> 00:59:20.724
You worked hard.

1986
00:59:20.725 --> 00:59:21.525
You did a great job.

1987
00:59:21.585 --> 00:59:23.747
The company made bad decisions and you get fired.

1988
00:59:24.647 --> 00:59:25.648
How do you take ownership of that?

1989
00:59:25.828 --> 00:59:26.009
Well,

1990
00:59:26.149 --> 00:59:27.390
you take ownership of how you respond.

1991
00:59:27.391 --> 00:59:27.890
What are you going to do?

1992
00:59:28.230 --> 00:59:29.391
What's your next move going to be?

1993
00:59:29.912 --> 00:59:34.756
And so I think even in situations where you can't necessarily take ownership of

1994
00:59:35.096 --> 00:59:35.697
events that occur.

1995
00:59:35.737 --> 00:59:35.997
Now,

1996
00:59:36.038 --> 00:59:36.638
I will tell you,

1997
00:59:36.959 --> 00:59:37.379
caution,

1998
00:59:37.660 --> 00:59:39.482
word of caution is you can take ownership of a lot.

1999
00:59:39.803 --> 00:59:42.567
Most people can take ownership of a lot more than they think they can.

2000
00:59:44.369 --> 00:59:44.870
You start getting

2001
00:59:45.274 --> 00:59:47.056
You didn't get promoted,

2002
00:59:47.556 --> 00:59:49.478
and you start thinking it's because the boss didn't like you.

2003
00:59:49.479 --> 00:59:53.521
And that other guy's always a brown noser.

2004
00:59:53.541 --> 00:59:55.583
And you come up with a bunch of different excuses instead of saying,

2005
00:59:55.603 --> 00:59:55.883
wait a second.

2006
00:59:56.586 --> 00:59:57.947
what could I actually do better?

2007
00:59:58.267 --> 00:59:59.287
How could I actually feed myself?

2008
00:59:59.608 --> 01:00:00.168
So we can,

2009
01:00:00.428 --> 01:00:01.249
generally speaking,

2010
01:00:02.329 --> 01:00:05.411
have more control and ownership over what's going on in our world than we think.

2011
01:00:05.991 --> 01:00:08.933
But occasionally things happen that completely beyond your control,

2012
01:00:08.934 --> 01:00:10.413
and then you take ownership of how you respond.

2013
01:00:10.754 --> 01:00:13.015
And going back to the question,

2014
01:00:14.596 --> 01:00:23.441
discipline and taking action and making things happen offensively is vastly superior to sitting back and waiting for them to happen to you.

2015
01:00:23.781 --> 01:00:23.941
Yeah.

2016
01:00:24.181 --> 01:00:24.381
Well,

2017
01:00:24.382 --> 01:00:24.501
yeah,

2018
01:00:24.502 --> 01:00:25.282
that's what you mentioned.

2019
01:00:26.262 --> 01:00:28.644
when I listened to you on Tim Ferriss 2016,

2020
01:00:28.684 --> 01:00:29.645
like I love you just,

2021
01:00:29.665 --> 01:00:31.586
it was just you and the microphone and questions.

2022
01:00:31.986 --> 01:00:33.488
And you talked about aggression,

2023
01:00:33.828 --> 01:00:34.128
you know,

2024
01:00:34.949 --> 01:00:39.292
and how it's really essential for effective warfare.

2025
01:00:39.812 --> 01:00:42.194
Like not like waiting for the battle to come for you,

2026
01:00:42.274 --> 01:00:44.316
you go create the battle and fight it.

2027
01:00:45.336 --> 01:00:45.457
Well,

2028
01:00:45.477 --> 01:00:45.777
how does,

2029
01:00:46.257 --> 01:00:48.499
obviously that works very well in warfare.

2030
01:00:48.539 --> 01:00:52.522
How does that translate into life and then like into leadership and business?

2031
01:00:52.978 --> 01:00:53.098
Well,

2032
01:00:53.099 --> 01:01:02.201
the way it translates into life and leadership and business is the things that you want to have happen in the world aren't going to happen by their own.

2033
01:01:02.801 --> 01:01:03.941
Very few of them will be.

2034
01:01:03.981 --> 01:01:08.542
If you sit around every day with your plate out waiting for a good deal to come onto your plate,

2035
01:01:09.543 --> 01:01:10.303
it ain't going to happen.

2036
01:01:10.743 --> 01:01:12.523
You need to go and make things happen in the world.

2037
01:01:13.043 --> 01:01:13.584
And listen,

2038
01:01:13.624 --> 01:01:15.404
we say at Echelon Front,

2039
01:01:16.144 --> 01:01:17.245
we say default aggressive.

2040
01:01:17.265 --> 01:01:19.025
It's something that I've written about.

2041
01:01:19.225 --> 01:01:22.406
Your default mode has to be I'm going to take action.

2042
01:01:23.130 --> 01:01:23.290
Now,

2043
01:01:24.011 --> 01:01:26.692
the reason it's called default aggressive is important.

2044
01:01:27.452 --> 01:01:28.753
Can you override your default?

2045
01:01:29.734 --> 01:01:30.314
Of course you can.

2046
01:01:30.514 --> 01:01:31.315
And there's times where it's like,

2047
01:01:31.316 --> 01:01:31.495
yeah,

2048
01:01:31.496 --> 01:01:31.795
you know what?

2049
01:01:31.815 --> 01:01:32.775
This doesn't make sense right now.

2050
01:01:32.815 --> 01:01:33.035
There's,

2051
01:01:33.276 --> 01:01:33.516
you know,

2052
01:01:33.716 --> 01:01:35.937
we talk about operations that we conducted,

2053
01:01:36.878 --> 01:01:41.380
but we don't very often talk about the operations that we didn't conduct because like,

2054
01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:41.700
oh yeah,

2055
01:01:41.740 --> 01:01:42.561
we weighed the risks.

2056
01:01:42.581 --> 01:01:43.661
We looked at the situation.

2057
01:01:43.981 --> 01:01:44.302
We said,

2058
01:01:44.303 --> 01:01:44.742
you know what?

2059
01:01:44.802 --> 01:01:45.802
This isn't looking good.

2060
01:01:46.683 --> 01:01:47.263
High risk,

2061
01:01:47.343 --> 01:01:47.884
low reward.

2062
01:01:47.924 --> 01:01:48.664
We're not doing this.

2063
01:01:49.364 --> 01:01:50.425
Are there times where you say,

2064
01:01:50.645 --> 01:01:50.845
hey,

2065
01:01:51.886 --> 01:01:52.306
you know what?

2066
01:01:52.762 --> 01:01:53.883
We're best to pause a moment,

2067
01:01:54.524 --> 01:01:59.328
but the majority of the time and I say it's seven out of ten seven out of ten times

2068
01:01:59.968 --> 01:02:04.072
Action is gonna be a better thing to default aggressive taking action making things happen

2069
01:02:05.153 --> 01:02:08.696
Things aren't going to occur in the world the way you want them to be by chance

2070
01:02:09.877 --> 01:02:16.943
They're just not they're just not the world is gonna do what the world's gonna do you you have to like impose your will on It sometimes and make things happen.

2071
01:02:17.003 --> 01:02:20.386
So that's where that mindset comes in is

2072
01:02:20.706 --> 01:02:22.347
being default aggressive and making things happen.

2073
01:02:22.668 --> 01:02:23.669
Fortune favors the bold.

2074
01:02:25.030 --> 01:02:25.150
Yeah,

2075
01:02:25.190 --> 01:02:25.750
exactly.

2076
01:02:25.890 --> 01:02:28.112
And I have both of those quotes on my thing.

2077
01:02:28.113 --> 01:02:33.097
But one thing that by taking aggressive action is going to yield is results.

2078
01:02:33.677 --> 01:02:34.278
And that's like,

2079
01:02:34.298 --> 01:02:35.038
and then you get results,

2080
01:02:35.039 --> 01:02:35.579
you get data,

2081
01:02:35.659 --> 01:02:38.281
and then I can make a change.

2082
01:02:38.401 --> 01:02:39.102
Like I could shift.

2083
01:02:39.962 --> 01:02:40.123
Right,

2084
01:02:40.163 --> 01:02:40.603
exactly.

2085
01:02:40.643 --> 01:02:40.803
Exactly.

2086
01:02:40.804 --> 01:02:43.145
Because the results you might get might not be good,

2087
01:02:43.225 --> 01:02:45.767
but at least you learned that that was a bad- Exactly.

2088
01:02:45.888 --> 01:02:46.348
Exactly.

2089
01:02:46.388 --> 01:02:46.928
It's always like,

2090
01:02:46.968 --> 01:02:47.289
try,

2091
01:02:47.469 --> 01:02:47.729
try,

2092
01:02:47.829 --> 01:02:48.049
try,

2093
01:02:48.129 --> 01:02:48.650
try again.

2094
01:02:49.222 --> 01:02:51.443
And kind of on the opposite of aggression,

2095
01:02:51.804 --> 01:02:54.185
you mentioned earlier humility.

2096
01:02:54.745 --> 01:02:56.226
And that's like,

2097
01:02:56.246 --> 01:02:56.466
I mean,

2098
01:02:57.447 --> 01:03:00.569
why has that been so important for you,

2099
01:03:00.749 --> 01:03:01.329
for leadership,

2100
01:03:01.330 --> 01:03:01.929
for your life?

2101
01:03:02.450 --> 01:03:06.452
And understanding that and also like having kind of both like this aggressiveness,

2102
01:03:06.472 --> 01:03:07.072
but also like,

2103
01:03:07.112 --> 01:03:07.292
hey,

2104
01:03:07.372 --> 01:03:07.633
I can,

2105
01:03:08.393 --> 01:03:09.314
I know they're not the same,

2106
01:03:09.334 --> 01:03:11.034
but I think you know what I'm getting at.

2107
01:03:11.495 --> 01:03:11.655
Yeah,

2108
01:03:11.715 --> 01:03:11.975
to me,

2109
01:03:12.495 --> 01:03:16.237
humility is definitely the most important characteristic for a leader,

2110
01:03:16.277 --> 01:03:17.158
for a human being to have.

2111
01:03:17.922 --> 01:03:18.062
And,

2112
01:03:18.382 --> 01:03:22.645
and the reason that that has been so clear to me is it became,

2113
01:03:22.845 --> 01:03:23.605
became very clear.

2114
01:03:23.765 --> 01:03:24.146
Like I said,

2115
01:03:24.186 --> 01:03:25.266
growing up in the SEAL teams,

2116
01:03:25.606 --> 01:03:29.669
working with arrogant leaders and how terrible they were and working with humble leaders and how awesome they were.

2117
01:03:30.789 --> 01:03:32.290
You see that enough times and you start,

2118
01:03:32.370 --> 01:03:32.570
oh,

2119
01:03:32.571 --> 01:03:36.352
you do even an idiot like me can figure a little pattern recognition.

2120
01:03:37.833 --> 01:03:38.453
But the other thing,

2121
01:03:38.954 --> 01:03:42.316
one of the examples that I bring is like the last few years I was in the SEAL teams,

2122
01:03:42.776 --> 01:03:46.678
I ran the training for the West Coast SEAL teams and we would.

2123
01:03:47.098 --> 01:03:49.179
occasionally have to fire a SEAL leader,

2124
01:03:49.939 --> 01:03:52.700
like a platoon chief or a platoon commander.

2125
01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:53.901
These are experienced people.

2126
01:03:53.941 --> 01:03:55.702
Platoon chief might've been in for 15 years.

2127
01:03:56.222 --> 01:03:59.823
A platoon commander probably done one or two other deployments.

2128
01:03:59.943 --> 01:04:01.344
And these are during the combat years.

2129
01:04:02.685 --> 01:04:06.046
And yet when we would fire one of these SEAL leaders,

2130
01:04:06.086 --> 01:04:10.968
the reason we would fire one of these SEAL leaders wouldn't be because he didn't know how to shoot his weapon.

2131
01:04:11.008 --> 01:04:12.889
Wouldn't be because he wasn't in good physical condition.

2132
01:04:12.949 --> 01:04:15.010
Wouldn't be because he didn't know how to work his radio.

2133
01:04:15.914 --> 01:04:18.096
We would fire SEAL leaders because they lacked humility,

2134
01:04:18.356 --> 01:04:20.258
because they thought they knew everything.

2135
01:04:20.298 --> 01:04:21.579
They didn't listen to anyone else.

2136
01:04:22.019 --> 01:04:26.262
They thought that their plan was the best plan and their ego is just out of control.

2137
01:04:27.083 --> 01:04:27.704
And therefore,

2138
01:04:27.884 --> 01:04:31.206
they're going to cause massive problems on the battlefield.

2139
01:04:31.827 --> 01:04:33.588
And so that's very clear.

2140
01:04:33.648 --> 01:04:33.769
And,

2141
01:04:33.829 --> 01:04:34.069
you know,

2142
01:04:34.189 --> 01:04:36.451
interacting with any other human being in the world,

2143
01:04:36.651 --> 01:04:41.295
like when people's egos are out of control and they don't listen to anybody else,

2144
01:04:42.035 --> 01:04:43.096
they think they know everything.

2145
01:04:43.196 --> 01:04:44.377
It's just a terrible place to be.

2146
01:04:44.757 --> 01:04:45.358
It really is.

2147
01:04:45.798 --> 01:04:45.919
So,

2148
01:04:46.340 --> 01:04:47.041
you know,

2149
01:04:47.202 --> 01:04:51.031
I often say the most underrated tool of leadership is.

2150
01:04:51.595 --> 01:04:51.935
listening,

2151
01:04:52.535 --> 01:04:53.756
listen to what other people have to say.

2152
01:04:54.316 --> 01:04:54.496
Yeah.

2153
01:04:54.837 --> 01:04:54.957
And,

2154
01:04:55.057 --> 01:04:55.297
you know,

2155
01:04:55.337 --> 01:04:57.558
that listening and then carrying it one step further is,

2156
01:04:57.698 --> 01:04:59.038
is admitting when you screwed up.

2157
01:04:59.699 --> 01:04:59.919
Right.

2158
01:04:59.920 --> 01:05:00.039
Uh,

2159
01:05:00.099 --> 01:05:01.239
uh,

2160
01:05:01.240 --> 01:05:01.680
I had this,

2161
01:05:01.780 --> 01:05:01.900
uh,

2162
01:05:02.340 --> 01:05:05.561
senior chief instructor at Bud's where I don't obstacle course.

2163
01:05:05.661 --> 01:05:06.962
And I forget what I'd done.

2164
01:05:06.963 --> 01:05:07.082
I,

2165
01:05:07.802 --> 01:05:08.923
I'd screwed something up as a,

2166
01:05:09.103 --> 01:05:09.343
you know,

2167
01:05:09.443 --> 01:05:10.183
as a boat crew leader.

2168
01:05:10.243 --> 01:05:10.503
And I,

2169
01:05:10.784 --> 01:05:11.844
he witnessed me say,

2170
01:05:11.924 --> 01:05:12.824
sorry to my guys.

2171
01:05:13.765 --> 01:05:14.625
And he pulled me aside.

2172
01:05:14.645 --> 01:05:14.965
He's like,

2173
01:05:15.065 --> 01:05:15.266
sir,

2174
01:05:16.286 --> 01:05:18.367
don't you ever apologize to your men.

2175
01:05:18.863 --> 01:05:19.804
And I thought in that moment,

2176
01:05:19.805 --> 01:05:20.064
I was like,

2177
01:05:20.084 --> 01:05:20.204
well,

2178
01:05:20.205 --> 01:05:21.585
this guy is a SEAL instructor.

2179
01:05:21.645 --> 01:05:22.385
He knows everything.

2180
01:05:22.645 --> 01:05:24.306
I'm not ever going to apologize to my man again.

2181
01:05:25.307 --> 01:05:25.947
And then I thought,

2182
01:05:26.047 --> 01:05:26.287
you know,

2183
01:05:26.288 --> 01:05:26.867
a little bit later,

2184
01:05:26.868 --> 01:05:27.148
I was like,

2185
01:05:27.268 --> 01:05:28.628
that is the worst piece of advice

2186
01:05:29.389 --> 01:05:30.149
I've ever gotten.

2187
01:05:30.269 --> 01:05:31.630
Yeah.

2188
01:05:31.690 --> 01:05:31.950
I see,

2189
01:05:32.070 --> 01:05:32.771
I see your face,

2190
01:05:32.811 --> 01:05:32.991
man.

2191
01:05:33.051 --> 01:05:33.171
And,

2192
01:05:33.271 --> 01:05:33.831
and yeah,

2193
01:05:34.152 --> 01:05:34.272
I,

2194
01:05:34.292 --> 01:05:34.572
what do you,

2195
01:05:34.573 --> 01:05:35.252
what do you think about,

2196
01:05:35.532 --> 01:05:35.772
you know,

2197
01:05:35.812 --> 01:05:38.474
admitting when you've screwed up or what do you have to say about that?

2198
01:05:38.594 --> 01:05:38.854
You know,

2199
01:05:38.914 --> 01:05:39.054
I've,

2200
01:05:39.595 --> 01:05:39.715
I,

2201
01:05:39.975 --> 01:05:40.995
here's a trick question.

2202
01:05:41.075 --> 01:05:41.195
I,

2203
01:05:41.476 --> 01:05:42.396
when I talk to companies,

2204
01:05:42.416 --> 01:05:42.976
I talk to people,

2205
01:05:43.056 --> 01:05:44.217
I'll give them this question.

2206
01:05:44.998 --> 01:05:47.579
How often do you think I have to admit that I'm wrong?

2207
01:05:47.987 --> 01:05:48.107
So,

2208
01:05:48.347 --> 01:05:49.128
so let me ask you,

2209
01:05:49.268 --> 01:05:49.448
Will,

2210
01:05:49.548 --> 01:05:51.189
how often do you think I have to admit that I'm wrong?

2211
01:05:52.469 --> 01:05:52.830
What do you think?

2212
01:05:52.890 --> 01:05:53.350
How many times,

2213
01:05:53.370 --> 01:05:55.271
how many times a week do you think I have to admit that I'm wrong?

2214
01:05:55.272 --> 01:05:57.112
I don't know.

2215
01:05:57.212 --> 01:05:57.832
Half the time.

2216
01:05:58.052 --> 01:06:00.234
I'm not sure.

2217
01:06:00.235 --> 01:06:00.954
How many times a week?

2218
01:06:00.974 --> 01:06:01.434
A number?

2219
01:06:01.754 --> 01:06:03.515
Yeah.

2220
01:06:03.535 --> 01:06:05.176
I'd say 150.

2221
01:06:05.877 --> 01:06:06.757
Like 150 times.

2222
01:06:06.758 --> 01:06:07.157
What do you think,

2223
01:06:07.197 --> 01:06:07.418
John?

2224
01:06:07.419 --> 01:06:08.318
Do you think that's in the ballpark?

2225
01:06:08.938 --> 01:06:09.138
Well,

2226
01:06:09.319 --> 01:06:12.780
I would say that it depends on how many decisions you make.

2227
01:06:12.781 --> 01:06:15.642
And I would say it's probably a one for one for every decision you make.

2228
01:06:15.942 --> 01:06:16.703
You're probably saying,

2229
01:06:16.704 --> 01:06:17.083
I'm sorry.

2230
01:06:17.183 --> 01:06:17.303
I've,

2231
01:06:17.383 --> 01:06:17.503
I've.

2232
01:06:17.663 --> 01:06:18.244
mess something up.

2233
01:06:18.464 --> 01:06:18.724
Check.

2234
01:06:19.445 --> 01:06:20.325
Here's the real answer.

2235
01:06:20.946 --> 01:06:24.228
The real answer is I almost never have to admit that I'm wrong.

2236
01:06:25.870 --> 01:06:34.377
And the reason I almost never have to admit that I'm wrong is I almost never put a flagpole in the ground and tell people I'm 100%

2237
01:06:34.417 --> 01:06:35.037
right about this.

2238
01:06:35.778 --> 01:06:36.539
I never say that.

2239
01:06:37.539 --> 01:06:40.462
There are so few things in the world that I say,

2240
01:06:40.562 --> 01:06:41.082
you know what,

2241
01:06:41.162 --> 01:06:41.363
Will?

2242
01:06:41.743 --> 01:06:42.944
I'm right about this.

2243
01:06:43.204 --> 01:06:43.905
We should do it.

2244
01:06:44.005 --> 01:06:46.527
I never say that because how can I know what the future is going to bring?

2245
01:06:47.207 --> 01:06:47.327
So

2246
01:06:48.267 --> 01:06:48.787
I'm more,

2247
01:06:48.888 --> 01:06:50.488
much more apt to listen to what you have to say.

2248
01:06:50.508 --> 01:06:52.108
And if someone presents an idea to me,

2249
01:06:52.329 --> 01:06:56.870
I'm going to try with all of my power to support their idea.

2250
01:06:58.030 --> 01:06:58.450
And clearly,

2251
01:06:58.470 --> 01:06:58.710
you know,

2252
01:06:58.750 --> 01:06:59.771
if I make a mistake about something,

2253
01:06:59.772 --> 01:06:59.891
yep,

2254
01:07:00.071 --> 01:07:00.191
yep,

2255
01:07:00.431 --> 01:07:00.771
I'm wrong.

2256
01:07:01.011 --> 01:07:03.092
But I don't have to do that very often because

2257
01:07:03.812 --> 01:07:05.832
I very seldom put,

2258
01:07:05.993 --> 01:07:07.773
put money on the table and say,

2259
01:07:08.113 --> 01:07:09.233
here's what we should do.

2260
01:07:09.634 --> 01:07:11.314
I know this a hundred percent.

2261
01:07:11.934 --> 01:07:12.274
I don't know.

2262
01:07:12.514 --> 01:07:14.135
I can hardly ever say that again.

2263
01:07:14.475 --> 01:07:15.236
If there is some,

2264
01:07:15.356 --> 01:07:16.316
if something's illegal,

2265
01:07:16.536 --> 01:07:17.697
immoral or unethical,

2266
01:07:17.897 --> 01:07:18.098
okay,

2267
01:07:18.178 --> 01:07:18.338
cool.

2268
01:07:18.438 --> 01:07:19.278
Those are things that are,

2269
01:07:19.438 --> 01:07:19.999
that's different.

2270
01:07:20.379 --> 01:07:25.342
But if we're talking about making decisions about which is the best way to go or what's the best way to move forward,

2271
01:07:26.023 --> 01:07:27.404
I'll offer my opinion.

2272
01:07:28.044 --> 01:07:30.786
Sometimes I have to make a decision as the leader of a business.

2273
01:07:31.447 --> 01:07:31.747
But when I,

2274
01:07:31.767 --> 01:07:32.688
even when I make that decision,

2275
01:07:32.748 --> 01:07:32.988
I'll say,

2276
01:07:33.028 --> 01:07:33.208
okay,

2277
01:07:33.248 --> 01:07:34.529
here's our first iterative step.

2278
01:07:35.049 --> 01:07:36.110
Here's the first thing we'll try.

2279
01:07:36.770 --> 01:07:40.753
And we're going to be able to recognize that I'm wrong if this happens or this happens.

2280
01:07:41.333 --> 01:07:42.774
And if it looks like we're going to be right,

2281
01:07:42.915 --> 01:07:43.475
then it is.

2282
01:07:43.731 --> 01:08:01.123
probably going to be this or this and we can continue but yeah i i i really encourage people not to dig themselves in right don't don't dig yourself flexible be resilient you know what i mean like be buoyant like i mean i think that's like beef that's so important for for

2283
01:08:01.323 --> 01:08:13.131
life in general like this is one thing that we constantly come back to in mindfulness is like having your debillion the ability to adapt to be resilient to like change when you need to and you dig yourself in

2284
01:08:13.627 --> 01:08:13.847
Like,

2285
01:08:14.047 --> 01:08:14.327
you know,

2286
01:08:14.507 --> 01:08:14.707
you're,

2287
01:08:14.968 --> 01:08:15.268
you can,

2288
01:08:15.668 --> 01:08:16.108
I don't know.

2289
01:08:16.109 --> 01:08:16.968
It just doesn't seem a good,

2290
01:08:16.988 --> 01:08:18.849
a good way to powerful position to be in.

2291
01:08:19.009 --> 01:08:19.129
Yeah.

2292
01:08:19.130 --> 01:08:21.690
And just keep an open mind with everything.

2293
01:08:21.890 --> 01:08:25.772
And another thing that this is very good for is when,

2294
01:08:25.912 --> 01:08:27.533
when people get emotional about things,

2295
01:08:27.573 --> 01:08:30.694
I don't like people lose their temper,

2296
01:08:30.834 --> 01:08:32.435
which I haven't the,

2297
01:08:32.555 --> 01:08:32.795
you know,

2298
01:08:32.835 --> 01:08:33.155
the big,

2299
01:08:33.295 --> 01:08:37.497
the running joke with me is I only lose my temper with my printer or copying machines.

2300
01:08:37.577 --> 01:08:37.777
Right.

2301
01:08:37.797 --> 01:08:41.619
That's because printers and copying machines are evil.

2302
01:08:42.039 --> 01:08:42.159
But

2303
01:08:42.379 --> 01:08:42.859
No kidding.

2304
01:08:42.879 --> 01:08:47.140
Like I haven't yelled at anyone in my family and never,

2305
01:08:47.701 --> 01:08:51.161
never had like an actual argument with my wife.

2306
01:08:51.982 --> 01:08:52.522
Uh,

2307
01:08:52.562 --> 01:08:53.002
but like,

2308
01:08:53.222 --> 01:08:53.702
it's just,

2309
01:08:55.063 --> 01:08:55.183
and,

2310
01:08:55.283 --> 01:08:57.563
and part of that is from the fact of like,

2311
01:08:57.703 --> 01:08:57.863
oh,

2312
01:08:58.924 --> 01:09:01.524
I don't approach something as if I'm right and you're wrong.

2313
01:09:01.584 --> 01:09:02.465
I approach something as

2314
01:09:03.085 --> 01:09:06.006
I have an opinion and I think I might be wrong about it.

2315
01:09:06.026 --> 01:09:08.806
Cause you seem pretty emphatic about your opinion.

2316
01:09:08.846 --> 01:09:10.867
So let me listen and pay attention to what you're saying.

2317
01:09:11.311 --> 01:09:13.152
And chances are you're going to be right and I'm going to be wrong.

2318
01:09:13.153 --> 01:09:14.572
And I'm so okay with that.

2319
01:09:14.972 --> 01:09:15.912
It's ridiculous.

2320
01:09:15.972 --> 01:09:16.392
And it just,

2321
01:09:16.793 --> 01:09:17.733
it prevents a lot of,

2322
01:09:18.093 --> 01:09:18.453
I think,

2323
01:09:18.793 --> 01:09:25.815
emotional drama when you don't get wrapped around your own ideas and think that you have the best plan and think that you have the best idea.

2324
01:09:26.475 --> 01:09:28.036
I think all that stuff is,

2325
01:09:29.376 --> 01:09:29.576
is,

2326
01:09:29.836 --> 01:09:30.756
is not healthy.

2327
01:09:31.236 --> 01:09:32.797
And this is something you learn in the SEAL teams.

2328
01:09:32.857 --> 01:09:33.317
Like you,

2329
01:09:33.737 --> 01:09:34.637
you're planning for a mission.

2330
01:09:36.398 --> 01:09:37.298
I'm in charge of the mission.

2331
01:09:37.378 --> 01:09:39.579
I'm the platoon commander or I'm the troop commander.

2332
01:09:40.019 --> 01:09:40.799
I'm in charge of the mission.

2333
01:09:41.459 --> 01:09:41.580
I,

2334
01:09:41.900 --> 01:09:42.021
I,

2335
01:09:43.103 --> 01:09:44.426
I still don't know what's going to happen.

2336
01:09:44.887 --> 01:09:45.187
Like,

2337
01:09:45.708 --> 01:09:46.230
like it's,

2338
01:09:46.410 --> 01:09:47.172
I have an opinion,

2339
01:09:47.372 --> 01:09:48.394
but I don't know what's going to happen.

2340
01:09:48.434 --> 01:09:49.456
So am I really going to,

2341
01:09:50.038 --> 01:09:51.120
am I really going to put.

2342
01:09:51.572 --> 01:09:53.413
My relationship with John at risk,

2343
01:09:53.414 --> 01:10:01.199
when John says we should attack the target from the east and I said we should attack it from the west and I can't articulate to him clearly enough my opinion.

2344
01:10:01.899 --> 01:10:02.039
Well,

2345
01:10:02.040 --> 01:10:02.179
then,

2346
01:10:02.299 --> 01:10:02.740
you know what?

2347
01:10:03.060 --> 01:10:05.261
Why am I going to like override him when I can just say,

2348
01:10:05.281 --> 01:10:05.702
you know what?

2349
01:10:05.722 --> 01:10:06.382
Let's go with your plan.

2350
01:10:07.103 --> 01:10:08.263
Let's make it happen.

2351
01:10:08.343 --> 01:10:08.704
Awesome,

2352
01:10:08.724 --> 01:10:08.924
man.

2353
01:10:09.004 --> 01:10:09.144
Well,

2354
01:10:09.564 --> 01:10:10.525
coming up on the end here,

2355
01:10:10.565 --> 01:10:10.905
Jocko,

2356
01:10:12.066 --> 01:10:13.227
so much great wisdom here.

2357
01:10:13.267 --> 01:10:14.187
Appreciate it all.

2358
01:10:15.528 --> 01:10:17.750
Wrap it up with just a couple of last questions.

2359
01:10:17.770 --> 01:10:18.010
there.

2360
01:10:18.770 --> 01:10:21.052
One is if someone's listening.

2361
01:10:21.772 --> 01:10:22.172
not if,

2362
01:10:22.493 --> 01:10:23.333
when they are listening,

2363
01:10:23.373 --> 01:10:23.554
right?

2364
01:10:25.015 --> 01:10:29.839
If you were to tell them one place to start for developing that discipline,

2365
01:10:29.899 --> 01:10:31.680
where would you say to start?

2366
01:10:31.740 --> 01:10:32.641
And then the last one,

2367
01:10:32.801 --> 01:10:34.703
what have we not talked about that you want to talk about?

2368
01:10:35.183 --> 01:10:35.544
I think,

2369
01:10:36.985 --> 01:10:37.325
again,

2370
01:10:37.465 --> 01:10:38.947
I'm sorry to tell everyone this.

2371
01:10:39.107 --> 01:10:40.107
You don't have to wake up early,

2372
01:10:40.168 --> 01:10:50.036
but just try and wake up the same time every day and try and wake up with enough time that you can at least think.

2373
01:10:50.592 --> 01:10:55.256
And maybe do some kind of physical activity before your day starts.

2374
01:10:55.336 --> 01:10:58.218
I don't care if you're going to wake up and you're going to do 10 minutes worth of burpees.

2375
01:10:58.219 --> 01:11:00.220
That's pretty legit.

2376
01:11:00.260 --> 01:11:01.201
Yeah.

2377
01:11:01.541 --> 01:11:01.841
If you,

2378
01:11:02.022 --> 01:11:07.846
whatever you can do to get a little bit of a jumpstart on the day and be a little bit more ready for the day.

2379
01:11:08.387 --> 01:11:10.409
And after you do that for a little while and get up the same,

2380
01:11:10.429 --> 01:11:11.870
I get up the same time on the weekends.

2381
01:11:12.490 --> 01:11:12.751
You know,

2382
01:11:12.752 --> 01:11:14.072
I just get up at the same time every day.

2383
01:11:14.132 --> 01:11:14.752
And if you do that,

2384
01:11:14.832 --> 01:11:16.073
I think that's a really good place to start.

2385
01:11:16.074 --> 01:11:17.895
You get up early and you do some kind of physical activity.

2386
01:11:17.915 --> 01:11:19.136
I think that's a very good place to.

2387
01:11:19.480 --> 01:11:22.222
start feeling good and start seeing a pretty,

2388
01:11:22.983 --> 01:11:27.267
a pretty quick result from the discipline.

2389
01:11:27.447 --> 01:11:28.968
Because very quickly you'll be like,

2390
01:11:28.969 --> 01:11:29.068
oh,

2391
01:11:29.069 --> 01:11:30.049
my day was pretty good today.

2392
01:11:30.509 --> 01:11:30.910
And by the way,

2393
01:11:30.930 --> 01:11:32.211
you'll start being more tired at night.

2394
01:11:33.111 --> 01:11:33.652
And that's good.

2395
01:11:33.692 --> 01:11:36.014
Cause then you go to bed earlier cause you woke up earlier.

2396
01:11:36.294 --> 01:11:36.554
And so

2397
01:11:37.255 --> 01:11:37.835
I would just say,

2398
01:11:37.935 --> 01:11:38.616
try and wake up,

2399
01:11:38.856 --> 01:11:39.136
you know,

2400
01:11:39.917 --> 01:11:41.098
early enough that you're,

2401
01:11:41.298 --> 01:11:43.080
that you have a little bit of a jumpstart on the day.

2402
01:11:43.260 --> 01:11:47.263
Maybe it's 20 minutes earlier than normal and try and wake up that same time every day.

2403
01:11:47.264 --> 01:11:48.244
And I think that's a good place to

2404
01:11:49.184 --> 01:11:53.448
impose discipline in your world and start seeing some benefits from it rather quickly.

2405
01:11:54.489 --> 01:11:57.751
And then as far as things that we haven't talked about,

2406
01:11:58.712 --> 01:11:59.493
that's on you guys.

2407
01:11:59.513 --> 01:12:00.954
I'm sure you can answer questions.

2408
01:12:01.454 --> 01:12:02.635
I guess the last one is,

2409
01:12:03.676 --> 01:12:04.217
I was going to say,

2410
01:12:04.317 --> 01:12:05.218
how can people find you,

2411
01:12:05.238 --> 01:12:06.599
but you're pretty out there,

2412
01:12:06.659 --> 01:12:06.839
man.

2413
01:12:07.399 --> 01:12:08.761
What's the best way for them to find you?

2414
01:12:09.161 --> 01:12:12.324
Get more of your Jocko fuel that I know you're sipping on there.

2415
01:12:12.824 --> 01:12:13.224
What else?

2416
01:12:14.365 --> 01:12:14.545
Yeah.

2417
01:12:14.786 --> 01:12:14.946
Yeah.

2418
01:12:14.986 --> 01:12:15.286
It's all,

2419
01:12:15.406 --> 01:12:15.767
you're right.

2420
01:12:15.827 --> 01:12:16.827
It's pretty easy to find.

2421
01:12:17.568 --> 01:12:41.812
jocofuel.com originusa.com echelonfront.com jaco.com there you go that's that's it just all the common stuff it's solid you're on a google google search but uh yeah i appreciate you guys having me on yeah man thanks for being here uh will i'll turn it over you wrap it up no i mean i mean i mean jaco i think you probably have enough courage to do this but like you've never meditated before what if we do like a one minute meditation now so you can say

2422
01:12:42.212 --> 01:12:42.492
Yes,

2423
01:12:42.532 --> 01:12:45.214
we meditated on the men talking live on this podcast.

2424
01:12:45.514 --> 01:12:45.834
If you want,

2425
01:12:45.835 --> 01:12:47.675
we're just going to sit in stillness for one minute.

2426
01:12:47.676 --> 01:12:50.837
All you have to do is exercise your detachment skills,

2427
01:12:51.097 --> 01:12:52.117
which are already wonderful,

2428
01:12:52.618 --> 01:12:53.118
apparently.

2429
01:12:53.598 --> 01:12:54.519
And we're just going to,

2430
01:12:54.579 --> 01:12:55.499
this is how we honestly,

2431
01:12:55.519 --> 01:12:57.841
we close the show with a little practice at the end.

2432
01:12:57.901 --> 01:13:02.363
Because we want to continually encourage our community to practice.

2433
01:13:02.364 --> 01:13:04.844
And this is part of the discipline that we bring into the world.

2434
01:13:05.205 --> 01:13:07.326
So if you would indulge us for one minute.

2435
01:13:07.746 --> 01:13:07.886
Yeah,

2436
01:13:07.966 --> 01:13:08.246
let's go.

2437
01:13:08.967 --> 01:13:09.807
Before we do that.

2438
01:13:10.227 --> 01:13:10.447
Sure.

2439
01:13:11.996 --> 01:13:15.018
Is surfing meditation?

2440
01:13:15.019 --> 01:13:15.098
Oh,

2441
01:13:15.118 --> 01:13:15.358
man.

2442
01:13:15.538 --> 01:13:15.698
Yeah.

2443
01:13:15.858 --> 01:13:18.700
Is jiu-jitsu meditation?

2444
01:13:18.701 --> 01:13:19.620
I knew you were going to go there.

2445
01:13:20.020 --> 01:13:21.561
And are back squats meditation?

2446
01:13:21.562 --> 01:13:24.243
Because I've had this discussion with a few meditators.

2447
01:13:24.583 --> 01:13:24.763
Yeah.

2448
01:13:25.223 --> 01:13:26.064
Some people have said yes.

2449
01:13:26.124 --> 01:13:27.104
Some people have said no.

2450
01:13:28.285 --> 01:13:28.405
No.

2451
01:13:28.406 --> 01:13:28.485
No,

2452
01:13:28.486 --> 01:13:28.885
I mean,

2453
01:13:28.985 --> 01:13:29.986
here's what I mean.

2454
01:13:29.987 --> 01:13:30.486
Let me just say.

2455
01:13:30.506 --> 01:13:35.169
So one thing that we have a meditation course right now that's running,

2456
01:13:35.269 --> 01:13:40.932
and one of the ways that I kind of pull people into the conversation of meditation is like,

2457
01:13:41.872 --> 01:13:43.153
is the aspect of non-doing.

2458
01:13:43.313 --> 01:13:44.153
Like surfing,

2459
01:13:44.173 --> 01:13:44.813
you're doing stuff.

2460
01:13:45.294 --> 01:13:45.534
You know,

2461
01:13:45.714 --> 01:13:46.074
jujitsu,

2462
01:13:46.134 --> 01:13:46.834
you're doing stuff.

2463
01:13:47.254 --> 01:13:51.596
But what's really helpful is also take the opposite perspective and that's non-doing.

2464
01:13:52.176 --> 01:13:53.877
And when meditation is just like,

2465
01:13:53.897 --> 01:13:54.477
you're sitting with,

2466
01:13:54.577 --> 01:14:00.520
whether it's your breathing or whether it's like with your giving a loving kindness meditation or just being aware of your emotions,

2467
01:14:00.860 --> 01:14:04.361
like getting into that non-doing space is essential because like you,

2468
01:14:04.481 --> 01:14:04.802
again,

2469
01:14:04.942 --> 01:14:07.743
like you understand perspective and you leverage perspective often.

2470
01:14:08.263 --> 01:14:09.543
And when I'm sitting in meditation,

2471
01:14:09.663 --> 01:14:10.984
I just gain more perspective.

2472
01:14:11.224 --> 01:14:13.105
because I'm not in the active,

2473
01:14:13.106 --> 01:14:13.866
the doing space.

2474
01:14:13.886 --> 01:14:16.988
I'm in the non-doing space and I'm just trying to access a little bit of stillness.

2475
01:14:17.428 --> 01:14:18.349
And from that place,

2476
01:14:18.569 --> 01:14:23.653
there's just like a whole well and resource inside me that just makes me a more effective human being in the world.

2477
01:14:24.113 --> 01:14:25.214
Have you ever surfed before,

2478
01:14:25.254 --> 01:14:25.414
Will?

2479
01:14:26.595 --> 01:14:27.015
I try.

2480
01:14:27.175 --> 01:14:27.355
Yes,

2481
01:14:27.415 --> 01:14:27.816
I have,

2482
01:14:28.796 --> 01:14:29.877
but not enough.

2483
01:14:30.037 --> 01:14:31.158
But what you got from me,

2484
01:14:31.178 --> 01:14:31.558
Jacko.

2485
01:14:31.698 --> 01:14:32.859
Surfing specifically is,

2486
01:14:33.820 --> 01:14:34.060
you know,

2487
01:14:34.641 --> 01:14:35.321
you paddle out.

2488
01:14:35.901 --> 01:14:36.362
Yeah.

2489
01:14:36.842 --> 01:14:38.143
You have to wait for waves.

2490
01:14:38.663 --> 01:14:39.404
And so surfing...

2491
01:14:39.992 --> 01:14:50.539
has a little less doing look then there's days where you're paddling the whole time and the waves are crazy and it's nuts but on a mellow southern california day you're out there

2492
01:14:51.299 --> 01:14:53.040
And you're totally detached from the world.

2493
01:14:53.580 --> 01:14:54.961
And you're waiting for waves.

2494
01:14:56.041 --> 01:14:57.882
And it's like you have nothing,

2495
01:14:57.962 --> 01:14:59.322
but you're not doing anything,

2496
01:14:59.462 --> 01:15:00.043
is my point.

2497
01:15:00.163 --> 01:15:02.524
So that's one possible one.

2498
01:15:02.584 --> 01:15:04.104
And what sports do you do,

2499
01:15:04.184 --> 01:15:04.325
Will?

2500
01:15:04.765 --> 01:15:05.025
I mean,

2501
01:15:05.045 --> 01:15:07.506
I used to be a basketball player through college.

2502
01:15:07.606 --> 01:15:08.166
Like right now,

2503
01:15:08.426 --> 01:15:09.527
I go to the gym a bunch.

2504
01:15:09.607 --> 01:15:09.807
Like

2505
01:15:10.487 --> 01:15:11.207
I'm actually just,

2506
01:15:11.748 --> 01:15:12.468
I'm a big hiker.

2507
01:15:12.488 --> 01:15:14.409
I just scheduled a big hike in Peru.

2508
01:15:14.909 --> 01:15:18.410
Going to see the Rainbow Mountains for five days at 17,000 feet,

2509
01:15:18.430 --> 01:15:19.651
which is kind of fucking ridiculous.

2510
01:15:19.711 --> 01:15:20.352
Very challenging.

2511
01:15:20.752 --> 01:15:21.873
My wife just got back from

2512
01:15:23.974 --> 01:15:24.675
Machu Picchu.

2513
01:15:24.676 --> 01:15:24.975
Machu Picchu.

2514
01:15:24.976 --> 01:15:25.095
Yeah.

2515
01:15:25.575 --> 01:15:26.656
She just went to go there too.

2516
01:15:26.756 --> 01:15:26.876
Yeah.

2517
01:15:26.877 --> 01:15:28.137
My wife just did it.

2518
01:15:28.177 --> 01:15:29.138
It's like beautiful.

2519
01:15:30.099 --> 01:15:30.239
Yeah.

2520
01:15:30.419 --> 01:15:31.940
I'm excited to see the Rainbow Mountains.

2521
01:15:31.980 --> 01:15:33.421
Apparently they're out there.

2522
01:15:33.461 --> 01:15:38.485
There's this beautiful rainbow-like striations on this actual rock of these mountains.

2523
01:15:39.225 --> 01:15:40.786
It's like I'm very excited to go.

2524
01:15:41.247 --> 01:15:41.847
Very excited to go.

2525
01:15:42.067 --> 01:15:42.268
Yes.

2526
01:15:42.688 --> 01:15:45.250
I haven't gotten a clear answer whether it is or is not,

2527
01:15:45.350 --> 01:15:46.451
but we'll go for it.

2528
01:15:46.452 --> 01:15:46.831
What do you got?

2529
01:15:46.971 --> 01:15:47.291
I'm ready.

2530
01:15:47.391 --> 01:15:47.992
We're just going to do,

2531
01:15:48.112 --> 01:15:53.796
we're just going to drop in and we're going to do one minute of just finding our breath and just trying to remain still.

2532
01:15:54.116 --> 01:15:55.097
We did it on the range,

2533
01:15:55.137 --> 01:15:55.457
Jocko.

2534
01:15:55.617 --> 01:15:57.859
Like I'm sure you did breathing,

2535
01:15:57.939 --> 01:15:59.039
box breathing or something.

2536
01:15:59.260 --> 01:16:02.642
I did it trying to calm my heart rate down when I was on a sniper rifle,

2537
01:16:02.762 --> 01:16:03.763
funny enough with Wojo,

2538
01:16:04.003 --> 01:16:06.064
Warrant Officer Johnson telling me what to do.

2539
01:16:06.204 --> 01:16:08.206
And then before getting in the CQC house,

2540
01:16:08.226 --> 01:16:09.227
but yeah,

2541
01:16:09.667 --> 01:16:12.029
we didn't call it mindfulness or meditation or anything in the teams.

2542
01:16:12.030 --> 01:16:12.629
That's for damn sure.

2543
01:16:13.910 --> 01:16:14.030
Well,

2544
01:16:14.130 --> 01:16:15.391
I'm getting my timer ready.

2545
01:16:15.803 --> 01:16:16.083
You know,

2546
01:16:16.163 --> 01:16:18.084
so we're definitely creating a little container here.

2547
01:16:18.184 --> 01:16:21.605
So I'm not going to go too long or I'm not going to go more than a minute.

2548
01:16:21.725 --> 01:16:23.026
What we're going to do is we'll,

2549
01:16:23.806 --> 01:16:24.046
you know,

2550
01:16:24.086 --> 01:16:24.727
find a seat.

2551
01:16:24.887 --> 01:16:26.347
We're going to just take a few breaths.

2552
01:16:26.367 --> 01:16:27.988
And after that third breath,

2553
01:16:28.008 --> 01:16:30.409
we're just going to be still and follow our breath.

2554
01:16:30.410 --> 01:16:31.990
And I'll guide us a little bit along the way.

2555
01:16:32.090 --> 01:16:34.931
And thank you for indulging us,

2556
01:16:35.071 --> 01:16:35.411
Jocko.

2557
01:16:36.271 --> 01:16:37.012
But yeah,

2558
01:16:37.072 --> 01:16:37.832
find that seat.

2559
01:16:38.052 --> 01:16:39.252
And everybody that's listening,

2560
01:16:39.413 --> 01:16:39.693
you know,

2561
01:16:39.833 --> 01:16:41.813
let's all meditate together in this moment.

2562
01:16:42.294 --> 01:16:44.735
Let's just start with a nice little exhale out.

2563
01:16:44.835 --> 01:16:45.515
Close the eyes.

2564
01:16:45.635 --> 01:16:46.336
If that's safe for you,

2565
01:16:46.576 --> 01:16:50.099
I'll just take these three breaths in,

2566
01:16:50.200 --> 01:16:51.241
big breath through the nose.

2567
01:16:54.504 --> 01:16:56.085
Let it go out nice and easy.

2568
01:16:56.125 --> 01:17:00.029
And these breaths are just to help to get us in touch and calm down our nervous system.

2569
01:17:00.089 --> 01:17:01.210
And a couple more of those in,

2570
01:17:01.271 --> 01:17:01.971
big belly breath.

2571
01:17:02.011 --> 01:17:05.915
And let it go.

2572
01:17:08.878 --> 01:17:09.659
One more inhale.

2573
01:17:12.419 --> 01:17:35.660
let it go and just drop into that stillness clock's running and all we're doing here is just simply feeling the flow of our breath in our belly or maybe the way it's passing through the nostrils and key element here is just detaching but also just being with things as they are trying

2574
01:17:35.680 --> 01:17:37.902
to impose our will or our ego in any way

2575
01:17:40.687 --> 01:17:44.394
Just coming back and being with the flow of the breath as it is.

2576
01:18:10.851 --> 01:18:12.192
Three,

2577
01:18:12.193 --> 01:18:12.432
two,

2578
01:18:13.393 --> 01:18:13.733
one.

2579
01:18:13.813 --> 01:18:14.053
All right,

2580
01:18:14.133 --> 01:18:14.393
guys.

2581
01:18:14.453 --> 01:18:14.834
Beautiful.

2582
01:18:14.934 --> 01:18:18.756
Take one big breath and let it go.

2583
01:18:18.856 --> 01:18:19.677
There's my alarm.

2584
01:18:20.457 --> 01:18:20.897
Jocko,

2585
01:18:21.078 --> 01:18:21.558
how was that,

2586
01:18:21.598 --> 01:18:21.898
Jocko?

2587
01:18:21.899 --> 01:18:22.498
It wasn't too bad,

2588
01:18:22.539 --> 01:18:22.839
was it?

2589
01:18:22.840 --> 01:18:23.679
It was okay?

2590
01:18:23.680 --> 01:18:24.660
Good to go.

2591
01:18:26.661 --> 01:18:26.941
Thank you.

2592
01:18:26.961 --> 01:18:28.142
Really appreciate you having here,

2593
01:18:28.162 --> 01:18:28.502
Jocko.

2594
01:18:28.582 --> 01:18:29.963
Thank you for this,

2595
01:18:30.023 --> 01:18:31.784
for everything that you're putting out there,

2596
01:18:31.785 --> 01:18:32.865
for being on the show today,

2597
01:18:33.746 --> 01:18:35.207
for all the wisdom you've imparted with us.

2598
01:18:36.319 --> 01:18:36.719
Yeah.

2599
01:18:37.079 --> 01:18:37.980
I'll wrap it up.

2600
01:18:38.020 --> 01:18:38.260
Thanks.

2601
01:18:38.420 --> 01:18:38.640
Thanks,

2602
01:18:38.680 --> 01:18:39.000
Jocko.

2603
01:18:39.120 --> 01:18:40.081
Been an honor.

2604
01:18:40.321 --> 01:18:41.101
And thank you for,

2605
01:18:41.962 --> 01:18:42.202
you know,

2606
01:18:42.222 --> 01:18:42.402
again,

2607
01:18:42.482 --> 01:18:44.062
sharing your wisdom and for our audience.

2608
01:18:44.143 --> 01:18:45.023
Thanks for tuning in.

2609
01:18:45.143 --> 01:18:46.464
I'm sure you got a lot from this.

2610
01:18:46.704 --> 01:18:47.364
Until next time,

2611
01:18:47.384 --> 01:18:47.744
everyone,

2612
01:18:47.804 --> 01:18:48.204
take care.

2613
01:18:48.404 --> 01:18:48.725
Bye-bye.

2614
01:18:49.605 --> 01:18:50.685
Thank you for joining us today.

2615
01:18:50.906 --> 01:18:54.747
We hope you walk away with some new tools and insights to guide you on your life journey.

2616
01:18:55.287 --> 01:18:57.068
New episodes are being published every week,

2617
01:18:57.108 --> 01:18:59.449
so please join us again for some meaningful discussion.

2618
01:18:59.789 --> 01:19:00.630
For more information,

2619
01:19:00.710 --> 01:19:03.151
please check out mentalkingmindfulness.com.