LinkedIn is known for being a site with the highest average income of all social media.
So the best time to post on LinkedIn is when you can actually reply to a few comments right when you post.
So yes,
if you post and you are right there to answer a few and reply to a few,
your content is going to do better.
Your watch of
Marketing Misfits with
Norm Farrar and Kev Kick.
Mr.
Farrar,
my brother from another mother,
how are you doing?
Very good,
sir.
Just battling some sort of bug.
You know what?
This month,
this year,
sucks.
Sucks getting old.
Oh yeah,
that's one thing.
And then sucks getting sick,
sucks getting a toothache,
sucks getting...
This has been a horrible year for health.
I'm glad you're older than me because I can see foreshadowing what's to come.
And that way I can actually do take preventative measures now.
I can learn from you.
You know,
being seven minutes older is…
My Yoda.
I can learn from you.
Do not…
Make sure you brush your teeth so you don't get this thing.
Make sure…
Oh,
no,
you brush your teeth.
I know you do.
I see you all the time.
But make sure you don't do whatever you did that caused that teeth tooth.
Remember,
our mother said we were seven minutes apart.
so you know what norma you know something um for a long time i was on facebook that was like i wasn't on social media at all for like the first you know i started doing amazon uh
20 something years ago and i i became i guess known to the public in 2016 yeah 2016 when i went on nor i mean manny coates ampm podcast which i now host for the amazon space but
He invited me on that.
And I remember he always told me when he looked me up to see who I was,
because I was posting in his social media.
And he's like,
who is this Kevin guy?
And he goes to my Facebook.
And it was just a picture of my little puppy,
Zoe.
I remember that.
That was it.
I had like six friends,
no posts,
no nothing.
He's like,
man,
this guy,
I don't know who he is.
And it took me about two years before I actually did anything on Facebook.
And then finally,
around 2018,
I was like,
all right,
I got to play in social media.
I'm not one of these guys that wants to post where I went to dinner and what I'm doing and all that.
I just use it strictly for business.
I posted on Facebook,
and I got to
5,000 friends and hit that limit and was having to go in and delete people to let additional people come in.
I played around a little bit around that,
and I kept hearing this thing about Twitter and then about LinkedIn.
I was like,
LinkedIn?
I went over there,
and our good buddy out of
Amsterdam was doing some stuff on LinkedIn.
He's like,
Kevin,
you need to set up a LinkedIn profile.
And I'm like,
I don't have time to mess with that.
I'm not looking for a job.
LinkedIn's for people looking for a job.
And so he posted something under my name.
And then about two years ago,
I started hearing more and more about LinkedIn.
I was like,
you know what?
Maybe I actually need to do something on LinkedIn.
So I reached out to him and said,
hey,
can you give me control of that domain or that LinkedIn profile back?
I'm actually going to do something.
And in August of 2023.
So not even two years,
I actually started playing on LinkedIn and now I'm up to like,
I don't know,
close to 12,000 followers.
And I actually have someone that actually manages my account.
It's not me.
So any posts on there,
rarely me,
any comments are rarely me.
But I found that that's where a lot of people,
especially in the e-commerce industry,
are go and share stuff.
Some of it's on X,
virtually none of it's on Facebook.
But on LinkedIn,
there's a lot of people.
And so I started doubling down on that and using it for credibility and authority and lead magnets.
I know you've kind of done the same thing,
but you've been on there a little bit longer,
right?
Yeah,
I spent a lot of time when I had another business before I got into the Amazon arena.
And it was great.
And then when I started getting into Amazon,
you know,
I've never
I started to get into it.
I started to build a following.
I started to get.
some really good impressions and then I let it go.
And so I'm in the position where you are.
I've got,
I think I've got 8,000 followers.
And what I found is I had a lot of garbage followers,
people I would never,
nobody,
like they wouldn't benefit me anyway.
I couldn't benefit them.
So I just started deleting them.
And then I got back up,
like I deleted about 3,000 and I got about.
Back up to
7,500, close to 8,000 now.
But yeah,
I let it go.
I didn't like I only put the podcast on and some repurpose clips from my other podcast,
but
I got to start getting into it again.
So this might give me the oomph to get back into it.
But I was I was early adapter.
Yeah,
I'm finding it to be I'm not finding it to be a major lead source like for our newsletters.
You got a newsletter.
I got a newsletter.
I'm not finding it to actually drive a lot of traffic to the newsletter.
I mean,
I do a version of the newsletter.
And so do you on LinkedIn,
which.
people are reading,
but getting people to come off of that platform onto the newsletters is not easy.
And maybe our guest today actually may have some pointers on what we're,
what I'm,
what we're maybe doing wrong,
but I just,
I was just at the newsletter conference last week.
And one of the things that is a good point,
it's,
it makes sense when you stop and think about it,
but what these people were basically saying is the,
one of the powers of newsletters is you own that audience.
You have their email,
you control it.
Unlike LinkedIn or Facebook or somewhere else where you
you're in their sandbox and they can shut you off.
And anytime you lose all your followers,
you lose all your connections.
And
LinkedIn works similar,
uh,
from what I'm told,
uh,
to Facebook,
where it,
it shows your post to a handful of people,
uh,
that are your followers or that are,
are your friends.
And then if they react,
it shows it to a few more and it shows it to a few more.
So you might have a post that that's a really good post and only gets for whatever reason.
Uh,
and there's a number of reasons,
but you only get 200 people that goes through.
through their feed and another one goes through 30,000.
And so what is the magic behind that?
And that's what we have today.
Our guest is like one of the top LinkedIn experts out there.
And one of the things that at this conference that people were saying is like,
if you're going to use something as a lead magnet,
you got to use something in the same social media.
I mean,
if you're going to use social media,
whether that be Facebook,
YouTube,
TikTok,
Instagram,
LinkedIn,
Twitter,
whatever,
you got it.
You want to.
do the same medium.
So if you're trying to get people into your newsletter,
which is both of our goals,
you don't want YouTube to a newsletter is going to be difficult or TikTok to a newsletter is going to be difficult because you're going from video to red media versus LinkedIn.
You're going from red media to something that you read,
red media again,
and it should be much easier,
but we're missing the ball here.
So I'm hoping our guest today is going to help enlighten us.
We've got
Judy Fox.
And Judy,
I met at the Go High Level conference.
She was actually speaking,
and I saw her speak on LinkedIn.
There's two or three people that spoke on LinkedIn at this conference,
but she was by far the best.
I was like,
she was actually giving practical advice and telling you exactly what to do.
And I'm excited to have her on today.
I know,
I think we're both going to benefit from this,
and the audience is going to get some massive benefit as well.
Yeah.
So just before we bring Judy on,
I'm just going to ask you,
No more of these terms,
phrases.
Do not swear.
I don't want to beep you every second.
Are you going to put me in timeout again?
I'm going to put you in virtual timeout.
Every time you do that,
that's what I'm going to do.
And in total timeout?
That's not fair.
Yeah.
Friends don't do that to friends.
I thought you were a friend.
I am.
I'm a good friend,
and I will turn you around.
Here's Judy.
How you doing,
Judy?
Don't let him get away with it.
Well,
thank you for the compliments about the Go High Level event.
That's music to my fox ears.
Yeah,
no,
you did.
I mean,
when I sat through several sessions,
they should have put you on the main stage.
I mean,
they put you in one of the breakout rooms.
And but your content was good enough.
And then I remember we sat there.
I sat next to you in a couple of the other talks.
And we're like,
I was just like in my head.
I was just like,
this is like,
don't do that.
But do that.
I was behind the scenes.
You know,
with LinkedIn,
and with any other website that you were talking about Twitter,
Facebook,
there's everyone's going to tell you.
all the rules and all the things.
And honestly,
I really appreciated what you said about how YouTube is not necessarily it's video media trying to go to read media,
the rules that you create kind of have to acknowledge what is your goal.
So anyone can get on stage and give you a bunch of like,
you have to do this on LinkedIn.
But if your goal is to get more subscribers off of LinkedIn,
I love that you nailed that because that's the most important thing we can create boundaries and
results because you have that focus.
I mean,
I've had posts that I have someone I pay someone $1,500 a month to manage my LinkedIn.
And so for that,
she writes three articles a week.
And then she does all the commenting.
I think she has a VA or something that does all the commenting.
And every once in a while,
I'll get one of those emails.
You just commented on so-and-so's post.
I'm like,
oh,
shoot,
what did I say?
I have to go read it.
And don't comment on this person.
They just like to cause controversy.
So just skip them in the comments.
And then she takes stuff from my newsletter.
But my whole goal with it,
I see a lot of people that use LinkedIn as their major channel.
That's where they're building their authority.
That's where they're.
doing all the posts and some people are posting daily or twice a day in some cases but to me that's great um but i i think that's almost fruitless because at any moment it can be swiped from underneath you uh and and you have no control if i have i have a great article that i want everybody to see about the amazon world and
i post it sometimes i've had posts get 40 50 000 impressions that just that doesn't mean people read it just to be clear that just means it went to their feed um and
Other ones that are really good that should get that many and deserve to get that many get 277 or something.
And I'm like,
dadgummit.
But if I have an email and my email list,
I have 25,000 active subscribers because I scrub it.
Like Norm was saying,
I've taken out 14,000 people in the last six months for not opening or clicking.
But so there's 25,000.
He's always got to beat me.
He's always got to one-up me.
Just get used to it.
I keep kicking Norm off because he doesn't open or read it.
So he's like,
damn it,
what the heck?
He's like,
I had to sign up again.
But I know that it's consistency that if I send 25,000 out,
my open rates are between 40 and 45%
on sometimes as much as 50%.
But never worst case,
like an absolute bad one is 40%.
So that means that 12,000 people or close to 12,000 people are going to at least open and scroll.
They might not read everything.
but I can't say that about any LinkedIn posts.
I'm shooting darts.
Yeah.
But,
but isn't that blitz marketing,
Kev?
Like you can put it there,
you can put it on other social media channels,
you could turn it into video and then like put it onto LinkedIn.
No,
you should repurpose everything.
No,
you shouldn't.
And we do that for my newsletter.
I'll take the main story and I'll tell my person repurpose,
throw a shorter version of this on LinkedIn.
And no,
absolutely.
You should repurpose,
repurpose content.
But,
but on,
on,
so how,
how do I repurpose my content?
Judy,
how did you get into this whole becoming this LinkedIn expert?
I mean,
what's your background before the Fox ears and the Judy and everything?
What's your story?
So my background,
I am
Gen X,
by the way.
I'm about to turn 50.
So that is a fun milestone.
And
I am telling you that because...
I did not grow up with the internet.
I also had a lot of same thinking around Facebook or
I don't wanna post what I'm eating.
I don't know if that's a,
wherever that line is where people decided to become influencers,
I missed that where I was like,
I just wanna use the internet for business and I know you can do it.
So
I really.
narrow down on LinkedIn and started to pick that as my main channel during the 2008 economic crisis because I got like in that shakeup.
So I had been working for 10 years as a chemical engineer.
And I got my master's in business sustainability because I thought I'm going to climb the corporate ladder.
I'm going to do what my dad did and worked for a company for 30 plus years and retire.
The world of my dad has a pension and that entire trajectory that I was raised on,
which is the corporate life is safe.
You stay with a corporation your whole career,
they'll take care of you.
So that did not happen.
I got let go in that shakeup.
I was working for a construction company at the time.
So housing and commercial real estate obviously did not do so well in 2008,
2009.
And I got started on LinkedIn.
I started making any kind of content around LinkedIn.
I started blogging about it.
I just liked the platform.
It made sense to me as a place to talk about business on a business platform.
And
I've continued to keep investing in that platform.
I really got started posting video and content.
around 2017,
2018,
when they first released the ability to upload video.
So they never had the ability for anyone to just upload a video on LinkedIn until that time.
And then that's when I really invested my time and shifted my business that I was running to teach people how to get more results and business results on LinkedIn.
Because I was getting business results running an engineering firm on LinkedIn.
So first of all,
I'm an old guy,
so I think I can get away with this.
You do not look anywhere near 50.
Thank you.
When you said that,
that was a shock.
So one of the things that I like using LinkedIn for is the authority side.
So if I if somebody types in my name,
the first thing that pops up,
LinkedIn.
If I have Google Knowledge Panel,
first thing that pops up,
LinkedIn.
So it does add to that authority of you being somebody in your field that's a leader or an authority leader,
authority figure.
Here you go.
My wife just brought me a cough drop.
Yeah.
And a coffee.
And I did just Google your name and you're correct.
Your first profile is LinkedIn and you're on Google.
Wait.
In the Google business,
that side column where it lists,
yeah,
LinkedIn's first.
And then LinkedIn is your second link right underneath your website,
the beard guy.
Yeah.
And so,
I mean,
it is an authority link.
So that's another reason.
But a lot of people,
even for myself,
so I let it go for a while.
I got to get back into it.
But if
I go back to LinkedIn and I start looking at my profile,
What do you have to do?
What should be in that profile to really make you stand out?
So standing out,
can I also split it into standing out,
but also getting the results that you want?
Yes.
Okay.
Because there's one thing to catch people's eye.
Like I have a banner image with my Fox ears on and the social proof icon logos of places I've been featured.
We all know.
that a visual is worth a thousand words.
And we can kind of mentally say that somebody's legit a little bit,
depending on what logos they put up there.
But you might start to trust and scroll the rest of their profile when you think at the very top,
the banner is telling them something.
They're in the right place.
It's like,
I call it driving down the internet highway.
And that banner image just needs to tell you where the next Starbucks is.
You get off at exit 43 and you turn left.
Too many people try to explain too much in that banner.
We just need to know where are we getting off the highway and what are we getting off for?
So for your banner,
for example,
right now,
I love that you tell me what you offer and you have really big font around Amazon,
FBA,
e-commerce.
But.
Just when you say,
hey,
I want to get more visual interest or I want to get more people to keep scrolling and be interested.
You may benefit by putting more visual imagery versus text.
Very good.
So in mine,
in contrast,
like going by what you just say.
Yeah.
I have a picture of over the water bungalows in Bora Bora.
uh in tahiti and then a qr code for my newsletter and so i'm not doing travel stuff so should i be having me speaking on stage or some amazon logos or e-commerce logos or something on there instead because correct if you're driving down the highway you're going to be like oh there's some travel site but it also that picture gets attention but it doesn't actually say if
you go read my stuff my right under my name it tells you um but so that's a mistake i'm making
Yes.
Yeah.
It's almost,
it's a balance.
As you're saying,
you're up to
11,000 plus almost,
you know,
hitting 12K followers.
Maybe you no longer have to just catch people's attention with a visually sharp,
you know,
Bora Bora image and giving us this kind of pop that we have to figure out what we're landing on.
Am I landing on a real estate person?
Am I landing on,
what am I here?
Am I going on vacation?
Am I getting travel booking advice?
So you are correct.
A visual is going to make us think a lot of questions about you,
whereas you can take those questions away by claiming back an image that is you speaking on stage is a great one,
immediately sends the signal that somebody else trusted you so much to put you in front of X number of people.
We know those visual imagery of speaking on stage.
We know they work.
If they didn't work,
we wouldn't have tons of people do that on LinkedIn.
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See you on the other side.
And they still work.
It tells me more than the bungalow huts,
which is beautiful.
I think it does catch my attention and it caught my attention.
But it caught my attention a little bit in a,
I don't know what you offer and I don't really know who you are.
I could figure it out,
but you're going to get that 50-50 feeling of people saying,
I don't want to figure it out.
I just want to keep going.
I'll go to the next profile.
Well,
most people that are coming here are coming here,
though,
because they saw something that was published,
a post.
And there might be someone that looks me up like,
I just met him in a conference or I just met him somewhere.
I reached out to them and said,
hey.
I love to connect.
But so they're coming here.
Usually,
like you said,
I'm not necessarily looking at my profile to attract new people.
My stories in the post are what's doing that.
Yes.
I'm just saying.
The confirmation.
Yeah.
From a confirmation,
we like to,
on LinkedIn,
the speed of trust in business.
I love that book and that series and that language around trust.
We just quickly want to be reassured we're in the right place.
And if we hesitate,
sometimes even if we come over from a post,
we may hesitate.
I'm just explaining that you could see different results putting yourself in a visual way that we can see you are in the picture.
You know,
oh,
he is a public speaker or oh,
he has authority.
There is something to be said about doing that kind of visual imagery.
It says here I have.
2,764 profile views in the last seven days.
That's great.
Yeah.
I was going to also mention,
I have a client that has a podcast and he uploaded and put a picture of his studio and him in the studio sitting at his mic.
And that converted way more interest in asking him on podcasts,
getting him more inbound opportunities around his podcast and what...
you know,
the advertisement.
So just putting your visual of you sitting and doing a podcast,
he immediately saw fast results.
And he basically was like,
wow,
I had no idea that just that visual imagery.
I didn't have to explain to people I have a podcast.
I just had to show them at the very top.
That's what I've heard that if you show behind the scenes content,
that that converts really well.
What do you think?
Like,
is it?
If you're doing it yourself,
so you're a solopreneur and you want to have some sort of impact,
you've got your profile up there.
What can you do?
Let's say you have an hour or two a week.
You can't spend a lot of time on it.
You're doing it yourself.
You're not outsourcing it.
What's the most impactful thing that you can do on LinkedIn?
The most impactful thing is that first week.
work on your profile at the very top,
getting it to convert.
Because I do think when you create content,
just like Kevin said,
it's going to drive traffic to your profile.
People are interested in the person who said whatever it is they said online,
people are going to click on your profile.
And when you add up how many people you said 700,
some people were checking you out this week.
2,700.
Oh,
27.
Sorry.
I heard this.
Okay.
That is a lot when you multiply it out over a whole year and you never know who those eyeballs are.
And LinkedIn is known for being a site with the highest average income of all social media.
So I think they said it's up to the average income of somebody spending time on LinkedIn is anywhere from like
75K to
100K. That is a lot compared to other average.
incomes on other social media sites like Facebook or Instagram.
So with that said,
those views to me are more powerful.
So step number one,
spend that first hour just working on the top section,
getting it to convert.
And can I give you both a tip that you can do?
Well,
you have,
hold on.
I'm looking at both of your profiles.
You're going to be in the hot seat.
How hot do you want this hot seat?
Let's make it hot.
Let's do it.
Oh man,
that hurts.
That's burning.
So
I, Kevin is doing something that
Norman is not.
Are you guys competitive here?
So always competitive.
Why?
I've always got to one-up him.
Always.
He does.
He always tries.
So Kevin is paying for a premium account,
which is,
that's awesome.
And by the way,
let's connect.
We're not even first degree connected.
So I'm sending that right now.
And.
He included what's called that external link at the top of the profile where it says,
view my newsletter.
So he's turned a external link on.
Now,
Norm,
you don't have to pay for premium to get the external link at the top.
Your link won't look like a button.
It'll look like a blue text line.
That's the only difference.
You're going to end up with a blue text line of text that you can write that says,
view my newsletter or whatever you want to write.
And he gets a button because he pays for a premium.
But you're still sleeping on the fact that you should get that text line to convert more traffic off of LinkedIn.
Very good.
There you go.
So everybody listening,
take advantage of that.
That's at the top of your profile.
There's a pencil button near the top,
right underneath your banner.
Click that pencil.
It's...
all the way at the bottom and i even have a better idea everybody listening go and check out kevin's ed norms linkedin profile us and mine yeah and uh you know give us a give us a like or whatever you do so
the algorithm explain to the so i'm looking here at 11,526 followers is what mine says right now so those are people that are in that said hey i want to i want to see what kevin is posting and
And of course,
they're not going to show most of those people will never see anything I post.
A few of them will.
But then they also have the people that are connecting with you.
Are the connecting people also considered followers or those two different two different things?
Because go ahead.
I was going to say people can connect and follow.
People can basically just follow and people can just connect.
So most of the time
I just sent you a connection message.
When I sent you that- I just rejected it.
I just rejected it.
No.
When I sent you the connection message,
it immediately followed you.
I followed you.
So even if I reject you,
it still followed me.
Okay.
So because I get- You didn't reject me though.
No,
I already accepted you.
I was just joking on that.
I accepted you.
But I turned down probably two,
like Norm was saying,
where he deleted 3,000 people.
I turn down at least two-thirds of the people that want to connect.
And some of them are obviously just wanting to advertise or pitch me on something.
And it shows you a little preview.
And I don't want any of that.
And then other ones are certain profiles.
I don't want to come across wrong here,
but there's certain profiles of people that actually show up in your feed.
And I'm like,
I don't want them.
My audience is not soccer moms.
I'm just going to make something up here.
This is clearly a soccer mom driving a minivan.
That's not my audience.
So that person following,
I'm making this up totally.
That type of person is not my audience,
so I reject them.
And I've heard that that actually can influence,
if you have the wrong type of people following you or connecting with you,
that will influence your reach and the type of people that you reach on your post.
So if my ultimate goal.
is to get people off of LinkedIn onto my newsletter listing.
I want their email address.
I want them on my actual real life newsletter,
not my LinkedIn newsletter.
Is that a smart thing to do?
Or how does that whole process work?
Or have I got that all wrong?
I don't think you have it wrong.
I think
I tell people that I create two buckets for who I accept.
I think it is smart to,
and I'll tell you what those two buckets are,
but...
I think it is smart to be as generous as you can as you grow.
But yes,
if you are able to clearly say that person is not the,
you know,
maybe you're running a business that is a very local business and you really want to only connect with people maybe in your geographic area,
then there's nothing wrong with that because you are correct.
It would end up.
reaching more of where you've decided to connect and where you're telling LinkedIn,
I want to spend my time.
So
I was going to say my buckets tend to be because I can work international.
I've had clients in Australia.
I've had clients in
Cyprus. I've had clients in England.
So and the
US, of course,
and Canada.
So everywhere I can work anywhere.
So I am more generous to accept.
a lot of requests.
And what I put my two buckets is you look like a super awesome,
cool person,
or you don't.
Like that is kind of a blunt bucket distinction.
But if I look at your profile,
you look like you're kind of doing cool things.
You're at least filling it out.
You're,
you look like a legit person.
I also don't want to connect with bots or with fake profiles.
So well,
most of these people don't ever bother me.
It's not like
If I accept all these people,
they're just going to flood my inbox.
Most of them I never hear from.
I just thought it might mess up the algorithm a little bit.
So that's why
I've done that.
And then an important thing I look at is you see,
I don't know what is,
I've never actually stopped to see where this comes from.
The first four or five letters,
they'll say CEO of something,
or I help people do this or some short little phrase.
And a lot of times that's the determining factor,
whether I accept them or not.
So that's a super important from a marketing point of view.
on LinkedIn is to make sure I don't know where that comes from.
But whatever those words are that show up on the connect need to be basically convincing people,
like you said,
that drive by on the banner,
that needs to be the drive by to convince me to accept them or to engage.
Yes,
I
1 million percent more agree with that.
And for everything that we've talked about,
because that headline to me.
is the equivalent of how you introduced me to the podcast listeners today.
For example,
if you gave a statement saying we're going to interview
XYZ person on our podcast today,
that tagline that you just explained about the guest is going to make people go,
yep,
I want to listen to this podcast or no,
that's not the right connection or,
you know,
it immediately just allows you to filter who that person is.
So.
We all live by titles still in the corporate world.
And LinkedIn is still heavily thought of as a corporate place and a corporate mindset.
So titles matter.
I will always stand by that.
Where does those words come from?
Because I don't see what mine says for other people.
Yours says hand in five plus billion in sales from selling,
guiding and advising.
It's the first few words in your little...
I don't know what they call this section.
Sub bio under your name.
Okay.
And Kevin,
I see the line love to be spanked.
I thought I put that far enough out.
So then you know,
Norm's a part of the team.
That's it.
Part of the team.
I want to finish.
My thought around if you only had an hour,
the other only thing I wanted to tell people is you should split that second hour between if you need 30 minutes to make a post,
you should spend 30 minutes commenting.
You should not just be focused on your own content.
Because if you do that,
you miss the part of LinkedIn that exists where your comments become content on LinkedIn.
Yeah,
because when you comment on someone else's post,
you start showing up more to their audience too.
Yes.
Right?
So a lot of people don't realize that.
And the better that you want to expand your audience,
you want to comment on strategic accounts.
And I show people and I actually have a training that I can send you guys a link to,
which is,
it's like five minutes.
It shows you how to build your own newsfeed.
Remember,
like on Twitter,
for example,
you can create a scrollable...
expert list in whatever topic,
right?
Correct?
What's the terminology for Twitter for that feed?
Or is it changed?
Play on Twitter.
Okay.
Either way,
the point is you can build a news feed on LinkedIn that you don't have to go to the main one.
You don't have to worry about what algorithm and what LinkedIn thinks you should see in your news feed.
You can create your own.
And I call it taking my power back on LinkedIn.
If I want to network and be strategic,
and like really think about where my comments should go,
because those comments are going to make a better audience for me,
and it's going to grow my account more.
And you know,
you add up all those positives.
If I only have 30 minutes each week,
I should just scroll the newsfeed and identify people who are the most powerful people I can think of to keep commenting on consistently.
So even if it's like
Sir Richard Branson,
if you were just commenting on there,
that would benefit,
that would help benefit your account in the long run for your feed.
People who love Sir Richard Branson would start to see your content in their newsfeed because the more you comment on whoever you've picked to put in your custom newsfeed and you keep commenting on them,
you're going to tip over to being maybe what I call like a top commenter.
on that creator and you're going to get more visibility along with them so they if their post goes viral technically you can i call it kind of surf behind it with visibility so that's why some of my competitors are constantly commenting on my stuff um
they're leeching off my audience and you
It becomes a self-fulfilling once people realize to do this,
you can,
you know,
if you have 11,000 followers and you have 8,000 followers and they're at a thousand and they want to grow,
yes,
for them to comment on you is important for them.
So
I, it can keep growing your account if you do it then to somebody else,
basically.
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What do you consider the number of followers to where like,
okay,
this is a LinkedIn.
This is good.
I mean,
I know there's people that have 400,000,
2 million or whatever,
the outliers,
but where is that?
Or what is LinkedIn or what is you?
Where do you see like,
oh,
once you've hit 20,000,
once you've hit 10,000,
once you hit 50,000,
okay.
You're definitely a player on LinkedIn.
What are those numbers or those levels,
do you think?
I would say the first level I've noticed that LinkedIn kind of does it naturally behind the scenes.
But when you hit 30,000 followers or 30,000 connections,
it used to only just be connections,
right?
Now they added this follow button.
But you can only have 30,000 connections on LinkedIn.
You're capped out.
If you hit 30,000 people,
you cannot connect with any more people.
So with that threshold,
it means that there are creators who are asked 30,000.
It sends a signal that,
and it doesn't mean everybody knows that fact,
but there's enough people on LinkedIn that kind of perk up when they go,
whoa,
you have 30,000 followers.
They're just mentally assuming you might have 30,000 connections too.
And so can you explain that again?
connection versus followers yeah connection basically just means we can message each other easily if i don't accept a connection request they just can't easily they have to pay for an in-mail or they have to like force a message to go through through some type of advertisement purchase
they have to pay basically to message me or use one of their free in-mails if they have that does that make sense like the yeah yeah so
This is only pretty recent that LinkedIn allows people to just follow you and not have to connect.
We don't need to constantly message each other.
I mean,
it is kind of nice because now you can grow an account with a lot more followers.
You just won't be able to grow connections past 30,000.
And how important is it?
Like we all have our profiles,
but then we have the company pages.
So marketing misfits,
we haven't spent a second on it.
But.
We've got to,
but how important is building out that company page?
For
SEO and Google and having a place for us to land,
it can be really important.
I would say right now you have a company page that doesn't go anywhere.
So I just clicked on it and it doesn't exist.
And at minimum,
not existing just means you I lost
I'm now on another page that just advertises other people,
and is giving me a newsfeed of other people talking about podcasting and being a misfit.
And so you miss out on landing people on a page that you own.
Even if you don't put content there,
I tell people,
just repost your own company page.
Yeah,
that's what I do.
I have one for you.
billion dollar sellers it's not very active but sometimes we'll repost there but the newsletter comes through there but um because i take my newsletter and i post a section of the newsletter it's not the whole newsletter it'll be part of it it'll say to get the rest of it click here uh to subscribe it takes takes them off off site so
what may be happening is those links are broken right now
So see,
if I go to your profile right now,
they're all gray boxes.
Which one are you talking about?
Misfits?
Billion dollar sellers,
marketing misfits.
I mean,
I don't mean to put anyone in the hot seat,
but ask for it.
So right now,
if you have a company page called Billion Dollar Sellers Newsletter,
it doesn't exist based on your profile.
You have to,
maybe that link got broken.
I'm looking at it right now.
It says new subscribers in the last seven days.
It's in the experience section,
your company page.
Oh,
company page.
Okay.
I went to the bottom.
It says you're the founder of Billion Dollar Sellers Newsletter.
Okay.
If I'm looking at it.
Are you on my profile?
So I do see the marketing misfits logo.
Yes.
Yours is not broken.
Oh,
okay.
Okay.
So yeah.
Experience section,
I'll see it.
But in the activity section,
you can click on it and it goes to it.
That's the newsletter.
That's not the company page.
Oh,
okay.
I see what you're saying.
Okay.
Yeah.
You just don't want to have a grayed out box down there in your experience section.
Because I mean,
now Kevin,
now Norm,
we're putting Norm in the positive on the winner's side here.
Norm is winning this point.
If you go to Norm's profile,
he has all of his logos in the experience section.
How does that feel,
Mr.
King?
Take that.
So if somebody's gotten to the experience section,
I consider them to be a very potentially valuable lead.
What I mean by that is if they've spent the time to scroll all the way down to that section and then they take action from that section,
that's somebody who's kind of invested in getting to know what are you up to?
What's happening here?
They've gone down.
They're like,
I don't want to lose them at that moment.
And that's what I see Norm.
Norm's got that filled out.
He's got that perception with the logos that he's got legitimate businesses.
And I'm not going to be,
I guess I'm being kind of like ghost pepper hot feedback here.
But when you have grayed out logos,
it makes us mentally go,
well,
are you legit with those businesses?
Are you a fake profile?
Like we start to question because having that experience section filled out.
is what tells us that you're a legit business person.
So when you say grayed out logos,
that's the little two boxes,
right?
Yeah.
The blue box and the...
Yeah,
there's like a graphy kind of logo.
Yeah,
like a graph looking thing.
Yeah,
we can take a picture.
I can do like
Norm versus Kevin.
I really like that I can pit you guys against each other.
Unless later on,
you're going to be like,
I don't know about this.
Yeah,
no,
no.
There's no question I need to up my game.
on on here um what about when you post there's a lot of people are saying you know time and day post don't post more than once a day because that dilutes the other post some people are like don't ever put an outside link uh put
that in the first comment but don't be the first one to comment because that that wait at least 10 minutes uh what are a lot of little rules around trying to to game i guess or get the maximum engagement or the dues and
don'ts around that?
I always call those the mechanical things that people want to do to,
like you said,
get ahead on the algorithm.
And I said,
if that is your focus and you think that's going to take you to the next level,
then you've got the wrong focus.
So
I will tell you what I focus on instead because I do not chase the algorithm with any of my clients because the guarantees in life are...
Death,
taxes,
what are the guarantees?
Light.
Death and taxes are usually the two and the other one.
Well,
then the third one is algorithm changes.
It's death,
taxes,
algorithm changes.
I mean,
you can all agree every single social media platform is going to change.
Just like you said,
the only thing you control is your email list or if you have that person's information.
So what you can control on LinkedIn and not chase is I tell you the best time to post.
This is my official answer.
The best time to post on LinkedIn is when you can actually reply to a few comments right when you post.
So yes,
if you post and you are right there to answer a few and reply to a few,
your content's gonna do better.
I don't care what time of day it is.
I don't care.
Any of that,
if you post and you are active on the platform right after you post,
you will do better than all that micro decision making around
9am, 10am,
who gives a crap?
Just post during a regular workday or even in the evening,
as long as you're there.
So that's my first piece of advice.
What was the other?
There was other questions.
Oh,
external links.
External links work.
External links work because LinkedIn is not a website like...
I mean,
think about what LinkedIn is.
LinkedIn wants people to get successful employees in corporations.
They have HR departments.
They have recruiters.
They are built as more of an employee employment site.
And they've confirmed over and over and over again,
the reason why somebody got very viral saying external links don't work is because it's how you position the external link.
And
If you just post the external link,
you will potentially drive traffic away from likes and comments.
Because they like it to be longer,
a much longer post with an external link or better than here's two sentences.
Come check out our webinar.
It's going to be really cool.
Here's the link versus if you get a whole big thing and then put the link,
that's better,
right?
Yeah,
it's going to give people something to talk about.
It's going to give people to comment.
So the only reason somebody,
I mean,
this was years ago,
and I did all this research,
by the way,
and I went to LinkedIn's headquarters in New York City and sat down with one of the top vice presidents of the company.
And he confirmed over and over,
he put it in writing,
and he wrote it on one of my posts.
He wrote a huge statement about how and why LinkedIn does not throttle your content for external links.
It's only how you have positioned that external link that causes your content to not do as well.
I'm putting it back on the person.
If you put an external link,
just like Kevin was saying,
and you don't talk about what's in that external link,
you just want people to click on it.
You don't give anybody any context to put a comment in the comments and have a conversation.
If you don't get comments,
you're not going to get much reach,
basically.
So back to what you said,
and that's why some people have little comment farms where there's little groups on WhatsApp and stuff.
hey i just posted can you can uh 10 of you go and just make a comment and you'll see some ai stuff uh that's posting gibberish sometimes on on some some of these but that's that's part of the reason because i'm looking here like my recent post like one from today is at 472 impressions from like four hours ago yesterday 1139 then another one
298 another one 17 000 and another one 1353 and 432 and so um
I consider another one 3,111,
but that one only has seven comments on it,
but he got 3,111.
Another one that has like six comments got
298. So comments and reposts.
So also you have one from today that has three reposts in the first four hours.
That is 172 impressions right now.
Right.
Those two pieces of...
data,
the comments and the reposts,
those are so important for how your content is going to do in the first couple hours.
And that is why people create those pods.
And I've seen them,
I know exactly what you're talking about,
because people recognize how important that is.
That's why I will pull back the curtain right now and say,
all these other rules people are giving you around LinkedIn,
you're chasing what people don't want to tell you,
which is the truth.
And it's
the comments and the reposts.
If you get comments and reposts in the first four hours like that post has,
you're going to see more results.
And that's why I tell people you want to reply to comments in the first couple hours.
You want to thank those reposts.
If somebody's reposting my content,
I'm going to go thank them.
I'm going to go find them,
hunt them down and be like,
thank you.
Because if I just take the time to thank that one person,
two people,
three people,
you've got three reposts,
the power of that thank you is going to resonate for them to repost you next post,
repost you the next post.
I want chronic reposters.
In order,
then repost carry the most value.
I would definitely value the repost.
And then likes are like the least valuable of everything.
Because I'm looking at a post from five days ago.
I had 16 comments and it has 8,648 impressions.
Yes.
Okay.
So sometimes people don't make a comment with a repost.
Like I'm looking at your three reposts.
And so a few people have reposted.
Now,
I'm not going to,
I may take the time to click on each of those people's profiles and just send them a DM saying,
thank you for the repost.
I'm saying that sounds like it's just so worth your time.
It's worth your time.
It's worth your
VA's time to take three people and just thank them.
Just a quick little thank you.
Thank you for the repost.
That's it.
That's all you have to say.
It's nothing.
It's not a heavy conversation.
It's not a chit chat.
I will,
if they repost and they don't include their comments,
they just click the repost button.
I will DM them and say,
thank you.
If I can.
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So what about video?
You said video.
you got heavily more heavily involved in 2017 2018 when video what what's the impact of video on linkedin now and how often should we be using video and what kind of video tends to work the best well you need a lot of copy with the video yeah the exciting thing is linkedin has now doubled down on video and they're giving more data on video than they've ever given before so
What's happened is LinkedIn is the cargo ship of social media.
Other social media sites are speedboats.
And they're just like,
zoom,
zoom.
LinkedIn is like a cargo ship that's going to pull into the video reels,
TikTok,
YouTube shorts.
They're like a year or two behind.
But they just launched a video-only news feed.
Now on LinkedIn and on your cell phone,
you can start to scroll a TikTok style video news feed where it's just vertical video after vertical video.
And the power of LinkedIn doing that is people who are taking advantage of that new feature are seeing anywhere from a
36% increase of their video watch and everything that's happening.
But they've also seen...
The growth of followers on an account that's uploading video is basically
10x. It's exponential for some people.
The video-only news feed is pretty brand new.
Some people may have to update their LinkedIn app on their phone to see it.
What about the AI?
I'm just looking at the past month or so of my impressions.
And anything that's promotional nature,
whether it's long,
has a link or doesn't have a link,
has a video or doesn't,
is sub 1000 impressions.
But anything that's an article that's like,
here's a cool strategy or here's what the way some Chinese sellers are doing some crazy stuff.
That stuff is,
even if it doesn't have as many reposts or comments,
just in general,
I'm just quick cursory look here.
It's got four or five times impressions.
So is there some sort of AI that's looking at the content on
LinkedIn and going,
okay,
This is definitely some sort of promotional thing.
We're going to suppress this or not show it to as many people versus,
oh,
this looks like it's legitimate newsworthy,
like articles or valuable content.
We're going to show this to more people.
Well,
I think it goes back to what are the top pieces of content on LinkedIn and how much reach you can get with them.
The newsletter reach that you're noticing that you said is higher,
correct?
No,
no,
no.
If I just post an article,
like I have one here about...
that got uh just scroll past it uh had like 8 000 if i post something like hey uh um here my newsletter is like when my newsletter is shared on here um it's 7 000 2 544 impressions 7 594 but when i when
i post something like here's how to maximize your images here's some tips you know on your amazon listing you should do this and this and here's you know guys a bullet point sense of detail long post like it's like an informative post
It's not from my newsletter necessarily,
but it's on LinkedIn.
That one's got 13,000.
And so is there something that's looking at it?
And it's not like it's got tons more comments or reposts that you would think might boost it a little bit.
It's just the actual content that's in there is not promotional in any way.
It's not pushing webinar,
pushing come to more of my events or something like that,
which typically get virtually no exposure.
Well,
we don't get on LinkedIn to scroll to be technically sold to.
Right.
To me,
it's the kind of,
here's this hand,
what I'm going to talk about.
And then I'm going to tell you on the
PS, like,
PS,
I have a webinar coming up.
PS,
this is happening.
When you lead with,
I have a webinar,
have you signed up for this event?
We just don't care about that.
I'm not going to be...
We are not scrolling LinkedIn to find out that we need to attend something.
We become intrigued as a PS,
as a,
by the way,
I have a free $25,000 mastermind that is available.
When you become the advertisement on LinkedIn and you try to force an advertisement,
we just don't pay attention to it unless you put money behind it.
And that's just on the mindset of the scroller.
The scroller.
on LinkedIn loves the quick,
easy to consume,
level me up information.
So yes,
if you're giving it to us in a heavier to digest format,
we keep scrolling.
We're not ready to spend in,
I don't know,
five plus minutes trying to figure out what some content is.
If we can understand what some things is and it's valuable to us,
we'll give it a quick like.
If there's something to have a conversation about and there is a call to ask or call to a CTA to say,
hey,
let's engage in some conversation,
we'll comment.
And then if it's valuable for us to share with our audience and we can see the value our audience is going to get from it,
we're going to repost.
So all those activities depend on what you uploaded.
Does that resonate?
The.
Yeah,
I do that.
Here's an example of that.
I mean,
I had one from a month ago.
It's pretty short.
I built a multiple seven figure Amazon brand.
Let me debunk this $500 myth that takes the startup.
A few other bullet points.
And then down at the end of it,
we get some value.
And then down at the end,
it says get real no BS insights with my newsletter.
It's got a link to the newsletter.
This one got
72 comments,
three reposts,
and it's got 32,000 impressions.
Oh,
where's that one?
Sorry.
One month down.
What is it?
Oh,
big Rufus graphic.
If you're scrolling,
you'll see a big,
huge black graphic says Rufus is the next post after that.
Nice.
Down with 32,000 with that.
Congratulations.
Which to me,
that's pretty good for LinkedIn.
Yeah,
I'm still scrolling,
which is awesome.
Let's see.
And what I do sometimes I go back and I delete some of the low impression stuff.
like something i got 200 impressions i just deleted on my feed after like a week just so that for in cases of someone comes here and they're like oh this looks pretty cool i want to read more i don't want to have to scroll through the stuff that wasn't impactful so that makes me look like i'm it's like kind of like if you take pictures you're
judged by your worst picture um and so if you're showing a portfolio as a model to an agency to try to get a job to shoot they're going to look at what's the worst picture and if you got 10 pictures
I want to take out the worst ones.
So I actually go back and I delete some stuff out of my.
What does the text start with?
Because for some reason I can't find this post.
Just send it to me in LinkedIn.
You can click the button.
click the send button wait no i still haven't found it i'll send it to you right now oh i found it rufus is an ai design to revolutionize product discovery one because you have one right below that oh let
me debunk that rufus one got 5200 impressions and then the one right below that's 32 000.
i've built multiple seven-figure amazon brands
I mean,
you've triggered the let's have a conversation around what's the real startup cost of your Amazon success story.
I mean,
I think sometimes we don't realize how much we cause people to not like and comment just from the conversation we lead as a leader.
So this is being led in a really nice way by saying,
hey,
I've built this.
Let me debunk this.
And we know you're about to tell us a story.
And then you break it down.
And you even say the word is that you have a story.
And we love that.
And then you closed with a question that allowed us to engage.
There was nothing in here in this post that slowed us down from consuming and joining the conversation.
And I think I'm pointing out a lot of people's posts inadvertently slow down that conversation.
And we do things accidentally.
We.
by asking the wrong question.
We don't ask a true curious question.
You ask a true curious question.
What's the real startup cost of your Amazon success story?
That's a real authentic question that doesn't just have a yes or a no.
It has an actual answer that somebody can add and look like an expert by sharing their debunking of your same thing.
They can say,
you know what?
I want to debunk that too.
They can join you as a peer.
and have like a podcast conversation about it in your comments so creating controversial contrarian thoughts is actually good yes as long as you allow that person to join you in the conversation not be if you just keep creating controversial content that isn't making that person also look like an expert in the comments to agree or disagree does that make sense
If you said something like,
you're stupid if you do this,
well,
then no comment because they don't want to agree that they look stupid.
I'm interested in the other part of LinkedIn,
and that's how do I get qualified leads?
Nice.
So when you say qualified leads,
are you going out prospecting,
looking for them?
Yeah.
So if I want to utilize my connections,
how can I get qualified leads?
back to my business and is there a measurable way of roi um the qualified leads a lot of times people self-identify on linkedin using things like groups or
the newsletters they subscribe to or the communities and hashtags they follow or engage in and they post in
So if you're looking for somebody,
like,
give me an example.
I want XYZ person as a lead and I want to go down and find them.
So it could be
I want an Amazon seller who's fed up with managing their own Amazon business and we can take care of that.
So let's say Kevin and I have a brand management company.
So I would say first,
I'm going to look up Amazon sellers and see who's already having a conversation on that topic.
Has somebody already created a group on that topic?
Can I join it and start going down the membership?
I'm thinking more not how can you publicly be out in the world on Amazon sellers,
but how you can start to identify and send connection messages and make sure that you're opening up your audience to more and more Amazon sellers.
The other powerful way is to find what I call parallel businesses that also support Amazon sellers,
but they don't offer what you offer.
Right.
So maybe a parallel business for Amazon sellers is,
I don't know,
would accountants be accountants supporting Amazon sellers?
Or it could be other
Amazon service providers that don't provide the brand management,
but maybe provide the PPC.
Or.
Something like that.
So the number one thing I do that I work with clients on is looking for groups because you can just mine the whole membership.
You want to join.
You want to be normal.
You don't want to get on there and start pitching everybody or doing anything weird.
But you can just slowly go down through that group and just start sending connection messages saying like,
I tell people,
if you don't know what to say,
your power is actually in saying nothing and just having a great profile.
Hey,
Kevin King and Norm Farrar here.
If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits,
thanks for listening this far.
Continue listening.
We've got some more valuable stuff coming up.
Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player.
Or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify,
make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of the Marketing Misfits.
Have you subscribed yet,
Norm?
Well,
this is an old guy alert.
Should I subscribe to my own podcast?
Yeah,
but what if you forget to show up one time?
It's just me on here.
You're not going to know what I say.
I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair too.
And we'll just,
you can go back and forth with one another.
But that being said,
don't forget to subscribe,
share it.
Oh,
and if you really like this content,
somewhere up there,
there's a banner.
Click on it and you'll go to another episode of the Marketing Misfits.
make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm.
Yeah,
and don't say,
and this comes down to the automation side of it.
I was going to ask you about that too,
but don't say,
I just saw your profile,
let's connect.
Or you get the same message time after time after time.
But let's talk about automation.
On the automation side,
do you recommend those types of apps that will just send out automated emails?
So normally,
I'm on the,
I would say 50-50.
And here's why.
Depending on the app,
depending on your company and your brand,
you may not want to take a risk that LinkedIn could shut down your account because you're using a third-party tool that's not approved.
So I would first decide your risk tolerance.
And if your research on that third party app,
you want to double check that other people haven't had their account shut down from using that third party app.
That to me is the highest risk of losing your account that you use a bad acting third party tool that is on LinkedIn's no list.
Basically,
they don't publish a no list,
by the way.
You just...
You're going to find out there are creators who will go on LinkedIn and they'll say,
my account just got into LinkedIn jail.
I mean,
I've seen those letters where people get their accounts overnight,
their account is removed from LinkedIn 100%.
They lose all their followers,
they lose all their connections.
And a lot of times it's because they have a third party app that LinkedIn doesn't approve of.
So it's a matter of time before LinkedIn chooses to go after your account.
And I will always tell people it's not a matter of if it's going to happen.
It's a matter of when,
depending on the tool.
So if you can pick a third party tool that LinkedIn either has an agreement with or that you have good knowledge from peers,
I say you can take that risk and move forward and put limitations on it.
So it's not constantly churning out and violating numbers.
connecting willy-nilly with everybody.
I would say the biggest downside for the auto messages is depending on what you're selling,
if it's high ticket,
high trust,
you're going to lose trust,
and you may not be able to close high ticket if you're doing,
I don't know,
low ticket type of DM outreach.
Okay.
Now,
I just noticed the time.
Yes.
and keep going for a long time it could but uh i just realized we got just a couple of minutes it's been too much fun yeah we're gonna have to get in the hot seat i i've never really done that before in a pod someone for an hour wearing fox ears i mean this is yeah this is a first so
if people wanted to reach out and get a hold of you how do they do that
Um,
start with my website,
judifox.com.
The key is in the I.
It's a judifox.com.
Very good.
Oh,
but we do have one question for you.
And we ask this to every one of our misfits.
Do they know a misfit?
I know a great misfit.
His name is Vinny Potestivo.
And he has
a lot of media and PR experience.
And he's somebody I've worked with to get him a blue checkmark on LinkedIn.
So if you want to see this fit and my results that I get people,
go check out Vinny Potestivo.
Fantastic.
So Judy,
I'm going to remove you right now.
This is the only other part of my job I can do.
And we will hope you'll find another one.
No,
I'm right.
It's not the red ones,
the green one.
virtual slap slap okay thanks for coming on we'll have to figure out in the comments people have to tell me who they think won this uh extreme here between norm and kevin whose profile wins whose results wins there
we go all right judy thanks if you're winning norm it's not gonna be for long because i'm gonna go make some changes based on what she said i know because you always have to 1 up
going good i got i always gotta stay one step you know just like seven up all right so i was looking at the time i can't believe it this flew by that did i just looked up too but around the same time you just said that i was like whoa we're an hour and five minutes yeah we got five minutes to our next podcast um i
hope everybody's enjoyed this podcast uh this was uh this was great
uh remember every tuesday we have a brand new episode of the marketing misfits come out you never know what we're going to be talking about um we're about to go record another one right now and i i have a this one's um a pretty good one uh they're all pretty good uh but if you want to follow us make sure you do it at marketing misfits is it market.com
or dot co what is it norm you're not going to want to help me on this one dot co and marketing misfits
Make sure you follow us there.
Make sure you hit that subscribe button.
Subscribe to the channel.
If you listen to this on
Apple Podcasts or Spotify,
be sure to subscribe.
Leave us a comment,
too,
and post,
like Judy said,
down in the comments,
who you think has the better LinkedIn profile between Norm and I.
We'd love to hear what you think.
We'll squish you.
And squish me.
We'll be back again next week with another episode.
I think that's the podcast,
Norm.
All right.
We'll see everybody later and check us out next Tuesday.
See ya.