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It is hard.

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A lot of communities do end up going to zero.

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And I think that is because they let them get over riddled with spam and promotional stuff.

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Honestly,

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one of the ways we solve for that early on is by charging money for it.

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The two pieces of negative feedback we got were for two people who had three tickets.

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If Jordan writes a post and it's a lazy post,

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it's not a good headline or the selfish ask like.

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I'm going to be like,

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hey,

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man,

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hey,

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Jordan,

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you should update your post.

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It's not a very specific post.

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What are you trying to get at here?

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Or like,

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this is clearly you promoting your company.

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So early on,

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it would be like,

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man,

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I posted an exit five,

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but I only got two responses.

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And I'm like,

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okay,

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but how were the responses?

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Because if the responses were genuinely helpful and you got what you needed,

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isn't that the thing?

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I really wanted to be intentional about like,

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it's not necessarily about having lots of engagement.

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It's about getting the quality right.

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That's been the biggest thing.

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I don't have a story like some people will tell you,

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I've always known I was going to be an entrepreneur.

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Back when I was a kid,

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I had a lemonade stand.

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It was never like that for me.

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I think what I've always enjoyed is looking back now,

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I've always loved writing,

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creating,

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communicating,

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public speaking.

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And I think I've used those skills to become a marketer and do all the things in marketing.

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So my bet would be use my skills as a marketer to create another entrepreneurial journey after Exit 5.

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So I don't know.

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We'll see.

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Great.

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So the way you started Exit 5 is like a community.

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But,

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you know,

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what I see around me,

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and I'm sure you see this around you as well,

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is most B2B communities are like dead Slack groups,

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you know?

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And so

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I'm just wondering,

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you said you created this community and you found Product Market Fit even before admitting it.

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What did you do to make it work?

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What do you see in the market that you do or understand that none other companies or people,

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marketers,

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etc.

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understand?

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Well,

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so the dead Slack group thing is like,

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I think the real answer to that will be in five years or however many years from now.

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Because it's always tough to predict.

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I think the it is hard.

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A lot of communities do end up going to zero.

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And I think that is because they let them get over riddled with spam and promotional stuff.

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Honestly,

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one of the ways we solve for that early on is by charging money for it.

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You know,

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people thought I'm just some like,

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awful,

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arrogant.

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evil capitalists,

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but it's like money actually beyond wanting to make money from a business.

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Money is an amazing forcing function to get some level of commitment.

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You know,

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we just did our event.

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We just did this event in Arizona.

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The response was amazing.

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And the tickets were priced appropriately.

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They were expensive and priced appropriately,

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I think,

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for CMOs at that level.

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The two pieces of negative feedback we got were for two people who had free tickets.

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Isn't that funny?

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Yeah.

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They were invited from like a sponsor or whatever.

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But so I think number one is like we charge from the beginning.

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And so there's some level of commitment.

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I also think having a really focused niche,

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the niche of B2B marketing might not be small to you.

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But when I explain it,

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it's like there are other communities out there that apply to multiple areas of like business.

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There's,

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you know,

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sales,

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marketing,

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revenue,

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whatever.

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From the beginning,

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I think we've been exclusive.

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Like,

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no,

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we are exclusively for B2B marketers,

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right?

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So you have to be in B2B.

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So I think that helps.

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The other thing is like,

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if you look at the stats,

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if you go in the stats of our community,

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I think I've written maybe like 8,000 posts all time and 40,000 comments or something like that.

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And so

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I admittedly,

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I'm doing it much less now that we have a team and our company has grown.

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But if you look at the first five years,

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dude,

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I'm doing every single day,

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I am writing something,

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I'm commenting,

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I am policing comments,

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right?

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It's like,

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I'm in there.

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If Jordan writes a post,

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And it's a lazy post.

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It's not a good headline.

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Or if it's a selfish ask,

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like,

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I'm going to be like,

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hey,

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man.

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Hey,

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Jordan,

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you should update your post.

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It's not a very specific post.

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Like,

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what are you trying to get at here?

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Or like,

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this is clearly you promoting your company.

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So I think that it's been like the founder mode level of like things that don't scale is like I've been there commenting and replying on everything from the beginning.

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And then the fourth piece of it is like I.

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I just don't know.

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I don't have a perfect answer.

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Like we could cook with the same ingredients,

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but you just might make the thing better.

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I think we have a certain vibe and way of doing things that I think people maybe relate to.

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And I get messages all the time like,

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man,

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I feel like I.

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You're like an authentic person.

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Like I met you in person.

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Like I really did enjoy that.

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I think that is sprinkled in.

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That's sprinkled in somewhere.

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So I think that's part of it.

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The other thing,

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Jordan,

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is like

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I think the value prop of what Exit 5 is has evolved.

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And so it was just a Slack group.

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It wasn't on Slack.

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But it was just like an online message board.

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And I think that we needed to evolve from that because that alone was not enough.

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People didn't just want that.

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Ultimately,

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everyone churns for the same reason.

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They tell you that they didn't have enough time to log in.

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No offense.

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Everything's good.

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I just don't have enough time to log in.

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It's like you get a gym membership and you never cancel it,

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but you never go.

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And so maybe two years ago,

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I wanted to shift the thinking from more of like an online community in Slack,

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just to use that example,

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from like a membership.

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I wanted you to pay an annual membership fee.

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And with that annual membership fee,

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you get access to the online discussion board of the community,

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but you also go get discounted ticket to the events that you're doing.

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And you also get these perks and you also get this other thing.

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And so I think like a part of it is also just a positioning thing,

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right?

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If you,

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if we position exit five against LinkedIn,

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LinkedIn is always going to have more engagement.

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LinkedIn has an algorithm.

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The things there are meant to go viral.

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So early on,

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it would be like,

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man,

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I posted an exit five,

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but I only got two responses.

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And I'm like.

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Okay,

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but how were the responses?

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Because if the responses were genuinely helpful and you got what you needed,

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isn't that the thing?

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Versus like on LinkedIn,

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if I don't get a post that has a thousand likes and 50 comments,

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I'm like,

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oh,

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that was kind of a shitty post.

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And so

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I really wanted to be intentional about like,

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it's not necessarily about having lots of engagement.

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It's about getting the quality right.

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That's been the biggest thing.

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Okay,

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but what you're saying is,

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The engagement you get and the fact that you have a great community comes from the fact that you make people pay and that you punch them in the face when they don't post the right thing.

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If you clip that and you say it like that,

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sure.

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Yeah,

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but at the same time,

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it's like,

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oh,

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but I have to pay to give and get punched in the face.

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And so you see,

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you could see it the other way.

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And so

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Oh,

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yeah,

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for sure.

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Well,

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welcome.

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You got to have a business.

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You have to have guardrails.

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You have to have high standards and you have to have strong opinions and run a business.

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Like,

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I don't believe that there is there is sometimes there is there can be this kind of like mindset where someone's like,

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well,

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I am your customer,

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Dave Gerhardt.

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I paid you

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$500 to be in your community.

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You cannot tell me what I can or cannot post.

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And I'm like,

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yes,

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I can,

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because that is our that's our product.

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the product is the community,

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right?

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And so it's like,

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sure,

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we have guidelines,

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we have guardrails and it's not always perfect.

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And the really tough part about community is there is a lot of gray area.

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There's a lot of gray area.

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Like we don't want you to post the same stuff you'd post on LinkedIn,

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but like,

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you know,

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we had this guy,

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we,

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one time was like,

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it was so obvious he was just taking all of his LinkedIn posts and just copying them and posting them in there and just changing them.

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And he's like,

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this is not a LinkedIn post.

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And I'm like,

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and he got me because I'm like,

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I don't,

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you're right.

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It's not,

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but it's like,

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this is not what this community is about.

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It's very hard to articulate.

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And so it's hard to manage against.

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And so it's just like,

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there's a lot of,

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there's a lot of nuance there.

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Yeah,

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I,

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I,

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I hear what you're saying,

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but I think like,

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it all comes back to like your brand,

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your positioning.

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We really want to focus on separating the signal from the noise.

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being really helpful,

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being a place for B2B marketers to ask questions and get advice.

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And so I think just building a point of view around that.

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And at the same time that you want to like police negative comments and poorly written stuff,

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you want to,

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it's just like management.

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You want to praise the really good stuff.

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And so you start looking at like,

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wow,

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that was an amazing post.

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Like,

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look at this.

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And I'm tagging people in it.

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Look at,

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look at this post.

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This is an amazing post,

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right?

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Let's celebrate.

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Let's celebrate.

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It was a good post.

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then

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We've also built a bunch of systems on our end.

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Like we get a bunch of data from every member that joins.

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And so I know that now Jordan joins and he actually is,

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he has deep experience in

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SEO. And so someone asks a question about SEO and we notice that there's no responses.

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We might have one of our community managers go and tag in a bunch of people that we know are SEO people and to help get the discussion going.

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Yeah.

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I tried to,

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I didn't give you a perfect answer to that question,

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but.

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No,

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it's perfect.

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Do you think,

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because you mentioned something,

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you said this is our product,

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like the community is the product.

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Do you think,

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going back to all the dead Slack groups?

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Usually,

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you know,

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companies,

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they try to create a community,

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but it's actually an acquisition channel,

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you know.

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You said it.

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You said it.

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You said it perfectly.

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That is actually probably the reason is like,

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I think the reason that you've seen things work like,

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and by the way,

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Exit 5 is not alone.

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There's a bunch of examples of successful community businesses.

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I'm a member of one for founders called Hampton.

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Sam Jacobs in Pavilion,

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he's built an incredible business with that product,

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right?

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And Exify,

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we're not owned by a vendor.

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And so there is no,

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so like that is the product.

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It's not like eventually,

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man,

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these are all good fit people.

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We got to nurture them and to use our $20 a month SaaS tool.

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And I've done this.

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We had early days at Drift,

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we had a Slack community.

350
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I remember we have a Slack community,

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kind of delegated to the intern.

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Once a week,

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the intern posts like,

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what's everyone working on today?

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You know,

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and like,

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that's the whole engagement loop.

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But maybe that is a big.

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piece of it actually is being not owned by a vendor and the community is the product.

360
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Yeah.

361
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Interesting.

362
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I'll put that in my memoir.