It is hard.
A lot of communities do end up going to zero.
And I think that is because they let them get over riddled with spam and promotional stuff.
Honestly,
one of the ways we solve for that early on is by charging money for it.
The two pieces of negative feedback we got were for two people who had three tickets.
If Jordan writes a post and it's a lazy post,
it's not a good headline or the selfish ask like.
I'm going to be like,
hey,
man,
hey,
Jordan,
you should update your post.
It's not a very specific post.
What are you trying to get at here?
Or like,
this is clearly you promoting your company.
So early on,
it would be like,
man,
I posted an exit five,
but I only got two responses.
And I'm like,
okay,
but how were the responses?
Because if the responses were genuinely helpful and you got what you needed,
isn't that the thing?
I really wanted to be intentional about like,
it's not necessarily about having lots of engagement.
It's about getting the quality right.
That's been the biggest thing.
I don't have a story like some people will tell you,
I've always known I was going to be an entrepreneur.
Back when I was a kid,
I had a lemonade stand.
It was never like that for me.
I think what I've always enjoyed is looking back now,
I've always loved writing,
creating,
communicating,
public speaking.
And I think I've used those skills to become a marketer and do all the things in marketing.
So my bet would be use my skills as a marketer to create another entrepreneurial journey after Exit 5.
So I don't know.
We'll see.
Great.
So the way you started Exit 5 is like a community.
But,
you know,
what I see around me,
and I'm sure you see this around you as well,
is most B2B communities are like dead Slack groups,
you know?
And so
I'm just wondering,
you said you created this community and you found Product Market Fit even before admitting it.
What did you do to make it work?
What do you see in the market that you do or understand that none other companies or people,
marketers,
etc.
understand?
Well,
so the dead Slack group thing is like,
I think the real answer to that will be in five years or however many years from now.
Because it's always tough to predict.
I think the it is hard.
A lot of communities do end up going to zero.
And I think that is because they let them get over riddled with spam and promotional stuff.
Honestly,
one of the ways we solve for that early on is by charging money for it.
You know,
people thought I'm just some like,
awful,
arrogant.
evil capitalists,
but it's like money actually beyond wanting to make money from a business.
Money is an amazing forcing function to get some level of commitment.
You know,
we just did our event.
We just did this event in Arizona.
The response was amazing.
And the tickets were priced appropriately.
They were expensive and priced appropriately,
I think,
for CMOs at that level.
The two pieces of negative feedback we got were for two people who had free tickets.
Isn't that funny?
Yeah.
They were invited from like a sponsor or whatever.
But so I think number one is like we charge from the beginning.
And so there's some level of commitment.
I also think having a really focused niche,
the niche of B2B marketing might not be small to you.
But when I explain it,
it's like there are other communities out there that apply to multiple areas of like business.
There's,
you know,
sales,
marketing,
revenue,
whatever.
From the beginning,
I think we've been exclusive.
Like,
no,
we are exclusively for B2B marketers,
right?
So you have to be in B2B.
So I think that helps.
The other thing is like,
if you look at the stats,
if you go in the stats of our community,
I think I've written maybe like 8,000 posts all time and 40,000 comments or something like that.
And so
I admittedly,
I'm doing it much less now that we have a team and our company has grown.
But if you look at the first five years,
dude,
I'm doing every single day,
I am writing something,
I'm commenting,
I am policing comments,
right?
It's like,
I'm in there.
If Jordan writes a post,
And it's a lazy post.
It's not a good headline.
Or if it's a selfish ask,
like,
I'm going to be like,
hey,
man.
Hey,
Jordan,
you should update your post.
It's not a very specific post.
Like,
what are you trying to get at here?
Or like,
this is clearly you promoting your company.
So I think that it's been like the founder mode level of like things that don't scale is like I've been there commenting and replying on everything from the beginning.
And then the fourth piece of it is like I.
I just don't know.
I don't have a perfect answer.
Like we could cook with the same ingredients,
but you just might make the thing better.
I think we have a certain vibe and way of doing things that I think people maybe relate to.
And I get messages all the time like,
man,
I feel like I.
You're like an authentic person.
Like I met you in person.
Like I really did enjoy that.
I think that is sprinkled in.
That's sprinkled in somewhere.
So I think that's part of it.
The other thing,
Jordan,
is like
I think the value prop of what Exit 5 is has evolved.
And so it was just a Slack group.
It wasn't on Slack.
But it was just like an online message board.
And I think that we needed to evolve from that because that alone was not enough.
People didn't just want that.
Ultimately,
everyone churns for the same reason.
They tell you that they didn't have enough time to log in.
No offense.
Everything's good.
I just don't have enough time to log in.
It's like you get a gym membership and you never cancel it,
but you never go.
And so maybe two years ago,
I wanted to shift the thinking from more of like an online community in Slack,
just to use that example,
from like a membership.
I wanted you to pay an annual membership fee.
And with that annual membership fee,
you get access to the online discussion board of the community,
but you also go get discounted ticket to the events that you're doing.
And you also get these perks and you also get this other thing.
And so I think like a part of it is also just a positioning thing,
right?
If you,
if we position exit five against LinkedIn,
LinkedIn is always going to have more engagement.
LinkedIn has an algorithm.
The things there are meant to go viral.
So early on,
it would be like,
man,
I posted an exit five,
but I only got two responses.
And I'm like.
Okay,
but how were the responses?
Because if the responses were genuinely helpful and you got what you needed,
isn't that the thing?
Versus like on LinkedIn,
if I don't get a post that has a thousand likes and 50 comments,
I'm like,
oh,
that was kind of a shitty post.
And so
I really wanted to be intentional about like,
it's not necessarily about having lots of engagement.
It's about getting the quality right.
That's been the biggest thing.
Okay,
but what you're saying is,
The engagement you get and the fact that you have a great community comes from the fact that you make people pay and that you punch them in the face when they don't post the right thing.
If you clip that and you say it like that,
sure.
Yeah,
but at the same time,
it's like,
oh,
but I have to pay to give and get punched in the face.
And so you see,
you could see it the other way.
And so
Oh,
yeah,
for sure.
Well,
welcome.
You got to have a business.
You have to have guardrails.
You have to have high standards and you have to have strong opinions and run a business.
Like,
I don't believe that there is there is sometimes there is there can be this kind of like mindset where someone's like,
well,
I am your customer,
Dave Gerhardt.
I paid you
$500 to be in your community.
You cannot tell me what I can or cannot post.
And I'm like,
yes,
I can,
because that is our that's our product.
the product is the community,
right?
And so it's like,
sure,
we have guidelines,
we have guardrails and it's not always perfect.
And the really tough part about community is there is a lot of gray area.
There's a lot of gray area.
Like we don't want you to post the same stuff you'd post on LinkedIn,
but like,
you know,
we had this guy,
we,
one time was like,
it was so obvious he was just taking all of his LinkedIn posts and just copying them and posting them in there and just changing them.
And he's like,
this is not a LinkedIn post.
And I'm like,
and he got me because I'm like,
I don't,
you're right.
It's not,
but it's like,
this is not what this community is about.
It's very hard to articulate.
And so it's hard to manage against.
And so it's just like,
there's a lot of,
there's a lot of nuance there.
Yeah,
I,
I hear what you're saying,
but I think like,
it all comes back to like your brand,
your positioning.
We really want to focus on separating the signal from the noise.
being really helpful,
being a place for B2B marketers to ask questions and get advice.
And so I think just building a point of view around that.
And at the same time that you want to like police negative comments and poorly written stuff,
you want to,
it's just like management.
You want to praise the really good stuff.
And so you start looking at like,
wow,
that was an amazing post.
Like,
look at this.
And I'm tagging people in it.
Look at,
look at this post.
This is an amazing post,
right?
Let's celebrate.
It was a good post.
then
We've also built a bunch of systems on our end.
Like we get a bunch of data from every member that joins.
And so I know that now Jordan joins and he actually is,
he has deep experience in
SEO. And so someone asks a question about SEO and we notice that there's no responses.
We might have one of our community managers go and tag in a bunch of people that we know are SEO people and to help get the discussion going.
Yeah.
I tried to,
I didn't give you a perfect answer to that question,
but.
No,
it's perfect.
Do you think,
because you mentioned something,
you said this is our product,
like the community is the product.
Do you think,
going back to all the dead Slack groups?
Usually,
you know,
companies,
they try to create a community,
but it's actually an acquisition channel,
you know.
You said it.
You said it perfectly.
That is actually probably the reason is like,
I think the reason that you've seen things work like,
and by the way,
Exit 5 is not alone.
There's a bunch of examples of successful community businesses.
I'm a member of one for founders called Hampton.
Sam Jacobs in Pavilion,
he's built an incredible business with that product,
right?
And Exify,
we're not owned by a vendor.
And so there is no,
so like that is the product.
It's not like eventually,
man,
these are all good fit people.
We got to nurture them and to use our $20 a month SaaS tool.
And I've done this.
We had early days at Drift,
we had a Slack community.
I remember we have a Slack community,
kind of delegated to the intern.
Once a week,
the intern posts like,
what's everyone working on today?
You know,
and like,
that's the whole engagement loop.
But maybe that is a big.
piece of it actually is being not owned by a vendor and the community is the product.
Yeah.
Interesting.
I'll put that in my memoir.