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Welcome back to the Deep Seed Podcast.

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Last week I had a really nice conversation with the co-founder of KelpBlue,

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Caroline Slotweg.

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In short,

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what they're doing is restoring marine ecosystems by growing giant kelp in the sea.

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And what they also do is harvest some of the kelp to make biostimulants that farmers can use on their fields.

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Her claims are quite amazing to be honest.

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From a marine restoration perspective,

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they went from 6 or 7 species to over 500 in the spots where they grow the kelp forests.

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That alone is pretty incredible,

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but the other really interesting part of the story is that the biostimulants they make with the kelp have a huge positive impact for the farmers.

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This week,

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I'm talking to their lead agronomist,

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Valentin Piteau,

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and together we really try to get to the bottom of things.

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We discuss the details of the whole kelp growing process,

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the process of making biostimulants.

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We also talk about what biostimulants are and how they differ from fertilizers.

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And finally,

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we discuss how using these products can help farmers reduce their chemical inputs without losing any productivity,

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which is incredible and which makes it such a great tool for farmers looking to transition to regenerative practices.

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This episode was made in partnership with Soil Capital.

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I'm your host Raphael and this is the Deep Seed Podcast.

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Hi Valentin.

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Hello.

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How are you doing?

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I'm doing great.

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How about yourself?

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Great.

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Yeah,

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I just had a really,

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really interesting conversation with

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Caroline. We discussed the company,

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Calblue,

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the history,

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the mission,

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the kind of the system behind it.

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And now I'm really happy to...

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to have some time with you.

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You're the lead agronomist,

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right?

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For Kelp Blue.

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Yes,

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that's right.

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And we're going to get into a little bit more of the science and the technical stuff behind growing kelp and making biostimulants and all of that.

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Exciting.

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Could we start maybe with the process of growing kelp?

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How do you grow kelp?

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And don't hesitate to get into quite a lot of scientific detail.

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Sure,

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of course.

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So

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I think first to answer the question,

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it depends on the type of kelp.

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So,

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you know,

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I'm a scientist,

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so it depends.

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You're going to hear it quite a lot.

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But if we focus on microcystis,

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first,

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what you need to do is actually to find a spot to cultivate the seaweed.

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So for this,

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you would look...

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at the nutrients of the water.

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Is there some current?

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What is the temperature of the water?

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So microcystis,

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for example,

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is a type of seaweed that only grows below,

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you know,

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8 to 12 degrees.

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So this is the first step.

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And once you find a spot,

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then you need to get access to a license.

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And,

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you know,

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every government,

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they have like different regulations.

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So let's say

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Namibia was for us the best place to start.

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And once we have the license,

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then we need to establish the hatchery.

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So what is the hatchery?

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It's actually a place where you are going to select the kelp and start producing them.

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Which means that you go through the red light,

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which is basically,

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you keep them in dormancy so you can use it as a seed bank.

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And we have one of the biggest macrocystis seed bank in

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Namibia. And then you put them into the white light.

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So the white light is what we call the induction.

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With the induction,

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the cap are going to start reproducing themselves.

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And what is happening is that you have gametophyte male,

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which are going to release the sperm,

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and the gametophyte female,

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which are going to release the egg.

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And then what it does is that it creates a fertilized egg that we call sporophyte,

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juvenile sporophyte.

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This one will attach to wines that we put in the water with basically the sporophytes.

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and they will start growing.

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Once they are big enough and strong enough to go in the sea,

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then we go to the step of actually cultivating the seaweed.

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And then you have different ways to do it.

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Usually people they would attach a rope to two buoys.

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This is usually what you can find in Asia for example or also in France.

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What we're doing is that we're putting structures offshore,

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so about five to ten kilometers away from the coast,

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to actually do it at scale.

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And one of the reasons why we go offshore and we can of course come back to it,

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it's because you have constants.

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temperature,

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which is actually optimum condition for kelp.

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And then we would attach the twines that are around ropes to modules that are basically 15 meters below the surface,

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floating.

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And the total depth from the surface is about 60 meters.

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So imagine this huge module floating.

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Floating but 15 meters below the surface.

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Exactly.

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Yeah,

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that's right.

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So it's pretty impressive.

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I don't know if you dive,

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but if you go there and you see it,

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it's quite incredible actually.

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Yeah.

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Have you dived to go and see the...

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I went there.

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Yeah.

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I was lucky enough to go there.

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So usually part of the team,

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part of the onboarding is you go to Namibia and you can also work with the team there,

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but also of course see the kelp.

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And this is where the magic is coming from.

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So when you come back to the Netherlands,

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it's of course great,

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but you're also like,

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when am I going back there?

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So basically you see the kelp growing really,

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really fast up to 30 centimeters a day and reaching the surface.

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So this represents 15 meters.

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And then they will grow horizontally to create what we call the canopy.

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And that's the part that we are harvesting.

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Okay.

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I just want to go back to the hatchery a little bit.

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So you mentioned the process with the sperm and the egg.

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It sounds a lot like an animal reproduction more than a plant one.

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Yeah,

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exactly.

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It's quite interesting,

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right?

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Are kelp animals in a way?

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They are not animals,

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but they have a very similar way to reproduce themselves.

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Macrocystis is also different than...

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other types of kelp.

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So it's,

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you know,

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every time it's like a different kind of expertise that you need to have,

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but indeed you have.

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And what is also really interesting is that for every individuals,

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they will have both gametophytes,

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male and female.

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So they are going to reproduce also themselves on the structure.

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And we use different varieties to also cross,

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kind of cross-pollinate,

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you know,

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with a bit the same that with plants.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Right.

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So I was just curious about that.

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So please continue with the,

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so you're talking about the structures,

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the platform that is floating 15 meters below the surface.

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Because floating,

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we always associate it with being on top of the surface,

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but how does it float?

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It's anchored to the bottom and then it's lighter than water,

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so it pushes up.

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Exactly.

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So we work a lot with tension.

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So I am an engineer focusing on agronomy,

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but we also have engineers focusing on the sea and they will be much better than me to answer the questions.

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But basically we have tensions to keep.

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the netting module

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15 meters below with huge anchors that are tons basically in the deep sea,

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which is 60 meters below the surface.

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And then once we have this floating,

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it stays forever,

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basically.

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So what we have to do is just harvest the seaweed.

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And currently we do it manually.

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So we have boats and people cutting it,

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putting the seaweed on the boat.

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But what is really exciting

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and I wish I could share pictures about it,

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but we're designing fully automated vessels to harvest the seaweed.

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And this vessel,

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which is massive,

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it's I think 30 meter length,

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is fully powered with solar energy.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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And there is a cutting mechanism to actually cut the seaweed on the surface and then a conveyor belt to bring the seaweed on a kind of,

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you know,

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like a tank to then put them on our processing plant to create the famous biostimulants.

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Okay,

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yeah.

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And what's the idea with only harvesting the top?

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I mean,

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it's a subject we already kind of covered a little bit with Caroline,

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but maybe you could give us a bit more information about it.

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Yeah,

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of course.

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I think usually,

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and I think that's probably the link with seaweed biostimulants.

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Usually people,

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they would,

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you know,

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like I was saying,

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like plant the seaweed on a rope attached to tubers and harvest everything.

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When the seaweed grows,

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it does the photosynthesis,

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like the plants basically.

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And what is...

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quite interesting with microcystis is that it does it really really a lot so this is why it grows so fast up to 30 centimeters a day so it's you know has a little thing aside but fastest growing organism on earth faster than bamboo actually okay and

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because it grows so fast it does a lot of photosynthesis and if you harvest everything then all the carbon that your kelp are capturing is going to be released in the different product that you're making

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And it's the same if you wild harvest seaweed.

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The carbon that seaweed are sequestering is going to be released in the product that you're making.

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So this is one of the reasons why we decided only to cut the top because then we can let the seaweed,

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of course,

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for the biodiversity,

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but also when we cut the stipe,

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the stipe,

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a bit like Caroline was explaining,

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you know,

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will die off with the current goes in the deep sea as particulates organic carbon and dissolve of organic carbon that represent.

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10% of the net primary production.

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And this will be buried over the long term in the ocean.

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And this is...

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how carbon sequestration is happening at least for microcystis.

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Okay,

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maybe we can stay on that a little bit because we talked about the fact that you were studying how much carbon is being sequestered from this ongoing studies there,

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right?

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Yeah.

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How are you studying this?

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How are you trying to measure how much carbon is being sequestered from that kelp that is

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45 meters up in the sea and then dying off after you harvest it and going to the bottom?

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It must be really difficult to figure out.

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Yeah,

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it's an interesting challenge.

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So to do so,

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we're also working with local universities in Namibia.

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That's also what Kalan was saying,

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you know,

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part of the four R's,

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social returns,

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etc.

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So we work with the local universities.

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And we also work with different partners,

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the Kelp Forest Foundation,

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which is a non-profit,

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and Natural Metrics,

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which is also,

266
00:10:25.889 --> 00:10:26.129
you know,

267
00:10:26.209 --> 00:10:27.450
doing eDNA sampling,

268
00:10:27.490 --> 00:10:27.611
etc.

269
00:10:28.531 --> 00:10:29.572
And what is,

270
00:10:29.792 --> 00:10:30.053
let's say,

271
00:10:30.213 --> 00:10:32.295
challenging is that we also need to...

272
00:10:32.871 --> 00:10:35.774
get our own sensors or own things to measure it.

273
00:10:36.214 --> 00:10:36.955
But some of them,

274
00:10:36.975 --> 00:10:38.556
they are not yet commercialized.

275
00:10:38.836 --> 00:10:39.917
So we also have to,

276
00:10:40.398 --> 00:10:40.978
by ourselves,

277
00:10:41.058 --> 00:10:44.361
to design things that are going to help us to quantify it.

278
00:10:44.921 --> 00:10:47.404
So we can look at the...

279
00:10:48.324 --> 00:10:52.048
And I think you can go on the Calpford Nation website if you want additional information.

280
00:10:52.088 --> 00:11:00.475
But basically what we're trying to do is to understand the process that it takes from the seaweed to go in the deep sea.

281
00:11:01.035 --> 00:11:06.159
and how much carbon is going to also be remineralized by the life around,

282
00:11:06.259 --> 00:11:06.499
you know,

283
00:11:06.519 --> 00:11:07.039
by the fish,

284
00:11:07.079 --> 00:11:07.199
etc.

285
00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:10.662
And this is really difficult to monitor and to quantify,

286
00:11:10.722 --> 00:11:11.762
but we're going there.

287
00:11:12.143 --> 00:11:14.624
And we're also working with Gold Standards,

288
00:11:14.965 --> 00:11:16.266
which is a bit similar than Vera,

289
00:11:16.666 --> 00:11:20.909
to actually get the accreditation to then be able to sell the carbon credits.

290
00:11:21.149 --> 00:11:21.349
Okay,

291
00:11:21.489 --> 00:11:21.609
yeah,

292
00:11:21.749 --> 00:11:22.010
I see.

293
00:11:23.190 --> 00:11:26.393
So once you've harvested the seaweed,

294
00:11:27.213 --> 00:11:27.533
Caroline,

295
00:11:27.553 --> 00:11:29.735
explain kind of the process where you...

296
00:11:30.075 --> 00:11:31.576
chop it up into small bits.

297
00:11:31.956 --> 00:11:32.957
And then what happens then?

298
00:11:33.077 --> 00:11:34.958
Can you maybe get a bit more detailed about it?

299
00:11:35.079 --> 00:11:35.379
Exactly.

300
00:11:35.419 --> 00:11:37.220
So what is interesting is to chop it up,

301
00:11:37.280 --> 00:11:39.502
we use what we call a meat mincer.

302
00:11:39.882 --> 00:11:40.903
And like the name is saying,

303
00:11:40.903 --> 00:11:41.143
you know,

304
00:11:41.403 --> 00:11:44.845
it's a chop the meats and we do it with the seaweed.

305
00:11:45.366 --> 00:11:48.668
Then we have a tank where we actually add water.

306
00:11:48.808 --> 00:11:51.410
So this is going to create a nomogenous solution,

307
00:11:52.090 --> 00:11:52.391
which is,

308
00:11:52.411 --> 00:11:52.671
you know,

309
00:11:52.891 --> 00:11:55.713
full of viscosity because we have lots of alginate in the product.

310
00:11:56.173 --> 00:11:58.395
We can come back to this later on when we talk about...

311
00:11:58.735 --> 00:11:59.996
plant health or soil health.

312
00:12:00.636 --> 00:12:08.240
And then it is going to go through a kind of specific machine that is going to burst the cells with really,

313
00:12:08.260 --> 00:12:09.021
really high pressure.

314
00:12:09.361 --> 00:12:11.862
So let's say you put your hands in the process,

315
00:12:12.423 --> 00:12:13.403
your hands would burst,

316
00:12:13.943 --> 00:12:14.444
also your bones.

317
00:12:14.444 --> 00:12:14.984
So it's really,

318
00:12:15.004 --> 00:12:15.404
really strong.

319
00:12:15.864 --> 00:12:27.571
And the interesting thing with this is that it actually opens the cells and break down the cell walls into the interesting molecules that are then in a kind of shape.

320
00:12:27.851 --> 00:12:30.293
where it's really easy for the plants to assimilate them.

321
00:12:31.114 --> 00:12:32.675
Because if you just crash the seaweed,

322
00:12:33.416 --> 00:12:36.758
the molecules will still be basically trapped in the cells.

323
00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:40.682
And then it's much more difficult for the plants to absorb them.

324
00:12:40.822 --> 00:12:42.323
So this is a reason why we do this.

325
00:12:42.804 --> 00:12:45.085
And once you have your bustier cells,

326
00:12:45.105 --> 00:12:47.287
you still have this kind of homogeneous solution.

327
00:12:47.728 --> 00:12:51.791
And then what you need to do is to separate the solid fraction from the liquid fraction.

328
00:12:52.592 --> 00:12:53.292
And for this,

329
00:12:53.452 --> 00:12:54.513
I don't know if you know this machine,

330
00:12:54.573 --> 00:12:56.455
but you can use a decanter.

331
00:12:57.007 --> 00:12:59.548
So the decanter is going to separate the liquid from the solid.

332
00:12:59.929 --> 00:13:00.789
And then with the solid,

333
00:13:00.829 --> 00:13:01.750
like Caroline was saying,

334
00:13:01.770 --> 00:13:03.210
we are exploring cap leather,

335
00:13:03.711 --> 00:13:04.791
alginate extraction,

336
00:13:05.051 --> 00:13:05.832
alginate pellets.

337
00:13:06.112 --> 00:13:06.292
Also,

338
00:13:06.432 --> 00:13:08.633
that is quite interesting for agriculture.

339
00:13:08.713 --> 00:13:09.634
We can come back to this.

340
00:13:10.574 --> 00:13:17.418
And the liquid extract is going to then go through different kind of filtration process to remove the bacteria,

341
00:13:17.638 --> 00:13:20.980
the fungi that we don't necessarily want in the product.

342
00:13:21.400 --> 00:13:21.740
Of course,

343
00:13:21.740 --> 00:13:22.661
you want them in the soil,

344
00:13:22.861 --> 00:13:23.741
the beneficial one,

345
00:13:23.801 --> 00:13:25.923
but not necessarily in the product to avoid,

346
00:13:25.923 --> 00:13:26.143
you know,

347
00:13:26.223 --> 00:13:26.463
like...

348
00:13:26.967 --> 00:13:28.468
your product to inflate or so on.

349
00:13:28.468 --> 00:13:30.530
So this is also why we have these steps.

350
00:13:31.111 --> 00:13:36.196
And then we package and then product is ready to be shipped to our farmers in Namibia or in Europe.

351
00:13:36.696 --> 00:13:36.916
Okay,

352
00:13:37.117 --> 00:13:38.118
so these cells,

353
00:13:38.198 --> 00:13:41.641
you burst open to get the interesting stuff inside of them.

354
00:13:41.741 --> 00:13:43.142
What kind of stuff are we talking about?

355
00:13:43.603 --> 00:13:44.984
I seem to recall that

356
00:13:45.524 --> 00:13:48.007
Caroline used the word bioactive.

357
00:13:48.307 --> 00:13:48.808
Is that right?

358
00:13:49.048 --> 00:13:49.228
Yes.

359
00:13:49.228 --> 00:13:50.949
What is a bioactive compound?

360
00:13:51.190 --> 00:13:51.830
Where does it come from?

361
00:13:51.930 --> 00:13:52.451
How does it work?

362
00:13:52.611 --> 00:13:53.792
That's the kind of question I love.

363
00:13:54.012 --> 00:13:54.312
Nice.

364
00:13:54.452 --> 00:13:56.073
So we have different families.

365
00:13:56.233 --> 00:13:56.513
We have,

366
00:13:56.593 --> 00:13:57.133
of course,

367
00:13:57.273 --> 00:13:57.753
nutrients.

368
00:13:58.174 --> 00:13:59.414
I guess you're pretty familiar with them,

369
00:13:59.454 --> 00:14:00.054
but N,

370
00:14:00.134 --> 00:14:00.254
P,

371
00:14:00.595 --> 00:14:00.715
K,

372
00:14:00.775 --> 00:14:02.015
and so on.

373
00:14:02.515 --> 00:14:05.497
We have also micronutrients like boron,

374
00:14:05.697 --> 00:14:06.317
for example,

375
00:14:06.797 --> 00:14:07.198
and so on.

376
00:14:07.818 --> 00:14:10.499
And then it comes the interesting juicy molecules,

377
00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:10.859
actually,

378
00:14:10.959 --> 00:14:12.040
the bioactive compounds.

379
00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:13.921
And we have the polysaccharides,

380
00:14:14.221 --> 00:14:15.241
which are kind of sugars,

381
00:14:15.341 --> 00:14:16.082
complex or not.

382
00:14:17.122 --> 00:14:17.722
As an example,

383
00:14:17.762 --> 00:14:19.083
we have alginates.

384
00:14:19.648 --> 00:14:36.415
alginate you can also find them in life every day and i guess you're pretty sure that you use it every day but you don't even know for example if you use shampoo or if you you know brush your teeth sometimes it can happen then you have alginate in this product and this is only coming from brown seaweed because

385
00:14:36.415 --> 00:14:49.280
it gives texture basically it retains the water so this is a polysaccharides but you have other ones like fucoidan that is also in seaweed and sea cucumber actually and you have mannitol or laminarin

386
00:14:49.560 --> 00:14:50.341
other polysaccharides.

387
00:14:50.441 --> 00:14:51.441
So this is one family.

388
00:14:52.082 --> 00:14:53.683
Another one that is interesting is those...

389
00:14:53.683 --> 00:14:53.923
Sorry,

390
00:14:53.923 --> 00:14:55.644
I was just going to interrupt you for a second.

391
00:14:55.644 --> 00:14:56.665
So a polysaccharide,

392
00:14:56.665 --> 00:14:56.945
what is it?

393
00:14:56.945 --> 00:14:58.046
Is it complex sugars?

394
00:14:58.326 --> 00:14:59.207
Exactly.

395
00:14:59.567 --> 00:15:01.408
It can be complex or non-complex,

396
00:15:01.448 --> 00:15:02.609
but it's basically sugars.

397
00:15:02.649 --> 00:15:03.310
Okay.

398
00:15:03.870 --> 00:15:05.691
So they have different structures,

399
00:15:05.731 --> 00:15:07.052
different properties.

400
00:15:07.473 --> 00:15:07.873
Exactly.

401
00:15:08.053 --> 00:15:08.173
Yeah.

402
00:15:08.453 --> 00:15:09.154
So for example,

403
00:15:09.434 --> 00:15:12.936
fucoidine is well-known to have antimicrobial or,

404
00:15:13.657 --> 00:15:14.157
in a good way,

405
00:15:14.197 --> 00:15:14.397
right?

406
00:15:14.738 --> 00:15:17.359
Anti-inflammatory properties.

407
00:15:17.760 --> 00:15:17.880
So

408
00:15:18.412 --> 00:15:19.353
People are also using,

409
00:15:19.753 --> 00:15:20.534
especially in Japan,

410
00:15:20.674 --> 00:15:24.377
fucoidan as a supplement to prevent cancer.

411
00:15:24.697 --> 00:15:26.979
You have some research papers on this that are quite interesting.

412
00:15:27.099 --> 00:15:28.120
I invite you to look at it.

413
00:15:28.961 --> 00:15:34.225
But also alginate would be more interesting when it comes to water retention or creates porosity in the soil.

414
00:15:34.305 --> 00:15:36.928
So you have different compounds for different types of benefits,

415
00:15:36.968 --> 00:15:37.268
let's say.

416
00:15:37.268 --> 00:15:38.509
And not only agriculture,

417
00:15:38.689 --> 00:15:40.310
but also human health,

418
00:15:41.411 --> 00:15:42.012
packaging,

419
00:15:42.512 --> 00:15:44.214
can be lots of different things.

420
00:15:44.874 --> 00:15:45.775
So polysaccharides,

421
00:15:46.195 --> 00:15:46.696
one family.

422
00:15:47.316 --> 00:15:47.736
Then we have,

423
00:15:47.816 --> 00:15:48.236
of course,

424
00:15:48.256 --> 00:15:48.876
plant hormones,

425
00:15:49.297 --> 00:15:50.217
because you do have,

426
00:15:50.677 --> 00:15:51.037
obviously,

427
00:15:51.137 --> 00:15:52.958
hormones in seaweed,

428
00:15:53.538 --> 00:15:54.238
auxins,

429
00:15:55.038 --> 00:15:55.878
cytokinins,

430
00:15:56.138 --> 00:15:56.259
etc.

431
00:15:57.059 --> 00:16:01.380
I think these ones are in non-significant concentration in the product.

432
00:16:01.940 --> 00:16:10.302
It's rather the upregulation of the genes inside the plants that is going to basically synthesize more of them inside the plant.

433
00:16:11.203 --> 00:16:12.003
We can come back to it,

434
00:16:12.023 --> 00:16:12.283
probably.

435
00:16:12.623 --> 00:16:15.624
And then the last family is the pigments.

436
00:16:16.516 --> 00:16:22.361
So we have chlorophyll or some very important also pigments for the plants.

437
00:16:22.501 --> 00:16:23.683
And then we have the polyphenols.

438
00:16:24.363 --> 00:16:24.964
Polyphenols,

439
00:16:24.984 --> 00:16:28.947
you can also find them in grapes and in tea.

440
00:16:29.808 --> 00:16:35.393
An example is the flavonoids that are also known to have antioxidant properties.

441
00:16:35.453 --> 00:16:40.097
So they can also protect plants from the stress that is coming from the sun.

442
00:16:40.177 --> 00:16:41.518
So for example,

443
00:16:41.638 --> 00:16:43.260
this kind of abiotic stress.

444
00:16:43.688 --> 00:16:44.888
The polyphenols,

445
00:16:44.968 --> 00:16:45.549
as far as I know,

446
00:16:45.589 --> 00:16:49.230
they're the reason why we hear that drinking red wine can be good for your health,

447
00:16:49.290 --> 00:16:49.490
right?

448
00:16:49.630 --> 00:16:49.970
Exactly.

449
00:16:50.070 --> 00:16:51.550
It is good for your health.

450
00:16:51.610 --> 00:16:52.111
I'm French,

451
00:16:52.351 --> 00:16:53.991
as you can hear my terrible accent.

452
00:16:54.051 --> 00:16:56.212
So I wouldn't say it's not good yet.

453
00:16:57.132 --> 00:16:57.392
Nice.

454
00:16:58.693 --> 00:17:00.633
I really hope you're enjoying this conversation.

455
00:17:01.053 --> 00:17:06.515
I'm just taking a very short break to tell you about the official partner of the Deep Seat podcast,

456
00:17:06.895 --> 00:17:07.515
Sol Capital.

457
00:17:08.296 --> 00:17:09.616
So Sol Capital is...

458
00:17:09.776 --> 00:17:28.146
a company that supports the transition to regenerative agriculture and they do that by financially rewarding farmers who improve the health of their soils they're a really cool company that i've been following for a long time and i'm really proud to be partnering with them for the podcast so

459
00:17:28.346 --> 00:17:38.952
you extract all of these compounds from the sea kelp with all of these processes that's right and then what do you do with them yeah so then once we're there in the product

460
00:17:39.708 --> 00:17:41.790
We concentrate them with the filtration step also,

461
00:17:42.050 --> 00:17:42.370
that is,

462
00:17:42.370 --> 00:17:42.611
you know,

463
00:17:42.711 --> 00:17:43.692
removing the bacteria.

464
00:17:44.352 --> 00:17:48.796
And then what is really interesting is to measure the bioactivity of the product.

465
00:17:49.156 --> 00:17:52.179
So whenever we have one batch and whenever we have one batch,

466
00:17:52.219 --> 00:17:54.301
also we know when we planted the seaweed,

467
00:17:54.381 --> 00:17:54.641
you know,

468
00:17:54.801 --> 00:17:56.022
when we harvested the seaweed,

469
00:17:56.022 --> 00:17:59.886
so we can really track and monitor not only in the cab forest,

470
00:17:59.906 --> 00:18:01.367
but also across our value chain.

471
00:18:02.268 --> 00:18:05.951
And we do the QC test to make sure that this batch is working.

472
00:18:07.076 --> 00:18:07.576
Is that test?

473
00:18:07.656 --> 00:18:07.856
Sorry.

474
00:18:07.936 --> 00:18:08.057
Yeah,

475
00:18:08.157 --> 00:18:09.818
it's a quality control test.

476
00:18:10.118 --> 00:18:10.378
Okay,

477
00:18:10.478 --> 00:18:10.838
yeah.

478
00:18:10.838 --> 00:18:21.944
So we make sure that basically every batch that we are creating with the seaweed that we are harvesting and cultivating has enough bioactivity to then be commercialized.

479
00:18:22.184 --> 00:18:22.725
So for this,

480
00:18:22.785 --> 00:18:24.065
we use different type of tests.

481
00:18:24.065 --> 00:18:29.969
We have a mung bean test where we put a mung bean on tubes with a little concentration of our product.

482
00:18:30.389 --> 00:18:33.430
And then we look at the root architectures.

483
00:18:33.791 --> 00:18:36.072
So the number of roots and the root length.

484
00:18:36.860 --> 00:18:38.941
And just maybe a quick thing on this,

485
00:18:39.181 --> 00:18:44.923
it is because when the roots are going to absorb the molecules that I was just describing,

486
00:18:45.003 --> 00:18:45.984
the active compounds,

487
00:18:46.624 --> 00:18:47.384
like the hormones,

488
00:18:47.425 --> 00:18:48.865
but also the polysaccharides,

489
00:18:49.465 --> 00:18:51.166
something is going to happen in the plant.

490
00:18:51.926 --> 00:18:58.129
It is going to be up or down regulation of certain genes inside the plant.

491
00:18:58.209 --> 00:19:00.470
And this is why you can actually see,

492
00:19:00.710 --> 00:19:00.970
you know,

493
00:19:01.410 --> 00:19:03.091
higher auxins content,

494
00:19:03.111 --> 00:19:03.591
for example,

495
00:19:03.591 --> 00:19:04.872
in the plants or activity.

496
00:19:05.536 --> 00:19:08.981
And this is why you can see longer routes or more routes.

497
00:19:09.362 --> 00:19:10.964
And visually we can say,

498
00:19:11.084 --> 00:19:11.285
okay,

499
00:19:11.445 --> 00:19:12.206
this product works.

500
00:19:12.626 --> 00:19:13.448
We commercialize it.

501
00:19:14.722 --> 00:19:14.922
Okay,

502
00:19:15.022 --> 00:19:23.528
so can we get a little bit technical here about what happens when those roots are growing in the presence of bioactive compounds?

503
00:19:24.149 --> 00:19:26.851
What is making the roots grow so much?

504
00:19:27.751 --> 00:19:27.911
Yeah,

505
00:19:28.352 --> 00:19:29.112
interesting question.

506
00:19:29.272 --> 00:19:30.413
I'm going to try to answer it.

507
00:19:31.094 --> 00:19:31.754
With Wachonigan,

508
00:19:31.954 --> 00:19:36.717
we have a big study looking at the mode of action of seaweed biostimulants,

509
00:19:37.098 --> 00:19:38.419
especially from macrocystis.

510
00:19:39.239 --> 00:19:41.100
It's a study sponsored by

511
00:19:41.581 --> 00:19:42.241
Nestlé Purina

512
00:19:42.822 --> 00:19:43.122
Europe.

513
00:19:44.034 --> 00:19:44.855
with our foundation.

514
00:19:45.095 --> 00:19:48.738
And this is basically looking at the modification of kelp.

515
00:19:48.778 --> 00:19:50.379
I cannot tell too much about it,

516
00:19:50.459 --> 00:19:54.421
but we also have other studies with other universities in France,

517
00:19:54.601 --> 00:19:55.502
in Namibia,

518
00:19:55.982 --> 00:19:56.423
or even in

519
00:19:56.823 --> 00:19:57.303
New Zealand,

520
00:19:58.084 --> 00:19:59.145
looking at the modification.

521
00:19:59.405 --> 00:20:03.588
And what is happening is that the synergy of molecules,

522
00:20:04.608 --> 00:20:05.389
polysaccharides,

523
00:20:05.489 --> 00:20:05.929
hormones,

524
00:20:06.630 --> 00:20:12.874
is going to impact the metabolism of the plants that is then going to produce more of something.

525
00:20:13.242 --> 00:20:14.343
can be more of auxins.

526
00:20:14.823 --> 00:20:18.285
The auxins is then going to impact the root elongation.

527
00:20:18.845 --> 00:20:24.828
But what is so far the challenge for the science is to understand what molecules is doing what.

528
00:20:25.169 --> 00:20:28.090
What is the signaling cascade happening basically.

529
00:20:28.530 --> 00:20:29.971
Because if you only put fucoidin,

530
00:20:30.912 --> 00:20:31.612
nothing is happening.

531
00:20:31.972 --> 00:20:33.633
If you only put alginate,

532
00:20:34.113 --> 00:20:34.834
nothing is happening.

533
00:20:35.274 --> 00:20:37.835
But then if you start putting these molecules together,

534
00:20:38.136 --> 00:20:42.338
this is the moment where you're going to start to see longer roots.

535
00:20:42.806 --> 00:20:44.487
or a better nutrient uptake,

536
00:20:44.567 --> 00:20:47.248
which means like more nutrients in the fruits and so on.

537
00:20:47.948 --> 00:20:48.128
Okay,

538
00:20:48.228 --> 00:20:48.368
yeah.

539
00:20:48.989 --> 00:20:50.849
So you're retracing the process,

540
00:20:50.949 --> 00:20:53.871
you've extracted the bioactive components,

541
00:20:54.671 --> 00:21:02.134
you're testing them to see which batch worked the best or the most bioactive by using a series of different tests like the one you described.

542
00:21:02.594 --> 00:21:04.775
And then how do you make the biostimulants from that?

543
00:21:05.375 --> 00:21:05.495
Yeah,

544
00:21:05.515 --> 00:21:09.257
so the biostimulant is actually made after the filtration.

545
00:21:09.337 --> 00:21:10.157
So remember,

546
00:21:10.177 --> 00:21:12.138
we have the process where we burst the cells

547
00:21:12.458 --> 00:21:12.958
decanter,

548
00:21:12.998 --> 00:21:14.639
we separate the liquid from the solid.

549
00:21:15.199 --> 00:21:18.100
The liquid is going to be basically filtered.

550
00:21:18.661 --> 00:21:19.781
And then we have the biostimulant.

551
00:21:20.021 --> 00:21:21.202
Then we have the packaging line.

552
00:21:21.402 --> 00:21:22.182
Then we have our product.

553
00:21:22.442 --> 00:21:22.662
Okay.

554
00:21:22.702 --> 00:21:24.323
So that liquid is the biostimulant.

555
00:21:24.403 --> 00:21:24.843
Exactly.

556
00:21:25.123 --> 00:21:25.703
Then we,

557
00:21:25.923 --> 00:21:26.744
let's say on the batch,

558
00:21:26.764 --> 00:21:30.185
we just select one bottle and we're going to test it on the mung bean.

559
00:21:30.365 --> 00:21:33.286
We also do some analysis of the specs.

560
00:21:33.827 --> 00:21:35.887
So basically what is the dry matter of the product?

561
00:21:35.908 --> 00:21:37.108
What is the nutrient content?

562
00:21:37.468 --> 00:21:39.949
And sometimes we can also relate once we have,

563
00:21:39.949 --> 00:21:40.369
for example,

564
00:21:40.369 --> 00:21:41.950
a mung bean test that's failed.

565
00:21:42.534 --> 00:21:44.015
Then we can look at the specs and say,

566
00:21:44.155 --> 00:21:44.455
okay,

567
00:21:44.756 --> 00:21:45.756
here there is a problem.

568
00:21:46.017 --> 00:21:47.317
But sometimes there is no problem.

569
00:21:47.398 --> 00:21:48.959
So why did it fail?

570
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:51.240
And then that's what is really interesting with

571
00:21:51.641 --> 00:21:52.361
KBlue actually,

572
00:21:52.521 --> 00:21:58.766
is that because we have the full in-house value chain from hatchery to sales,

573
00:21:59.126 --> 00:22:00.067
and we own everything,

574
00:22:00.727 --> 00:22:04.630
then we can put some really nice traceability system in place.

575
00:22:05.010 --> 00:22:06.011
So if a batch fail,

576
00:22:06.231 --> 00:22:09.053
and it's not because of the nutrient content or even because of this,

577
00:22:09.674 --> 00:22:10.034
we can...

578
00:22:10.714 --> 00:22:14.879
look at the traceability and try to even understand when we planted the seaweed,

579
00:22:14.959 --> 00:22:16.701
was it something that we did wrong?

580
00:22:16.901 --> 00:22:20.325
And for science is also very fascinating to get access to it.

581
00:22:20.585 --> 00:22:20.725
Yeah.

582
00:22:20.885 --> 00:22:23.729
So you can refine the process over time.

583
00:22:23.909 --> 00:22:26.411
You can start understanding what works best,

584
00:22:26.612 --> 00:22:27.953
what might be problematic.

585
00:22:28.894 --> 00:22:32.956
come up with solutions for that and so that you can improve the product over time and refine the process.

586
00:22:33.076 --> 00:22:33.536
That's great.

587
00:22:33.676 --> 00:22:34.056
That's great.

588
00:22:34.076 --> 00:22:34.196
Yeah.

589
00:22:34.236 --> 00:22:34.716
And you know,

590
00:22:34.776 --> 00:22:38.538
also the interesting thing about it is that Namibia was the pilot.

591
00:22:38.718 --> 00:22:39.898
Now it's like a commercial,

592
00:22:40.159 --> 00:22:40.459
let's say,

593
00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:43.440
seaweed farming and processing.

594
00:22:44.040 --> 00:22:47.662
And we take the learnings from what we've done in Namibia.

595
00:22:47.762 --> 00:22:50.923
And we're also constantly learning there with like the product that we're making.

596
00:22:51.543 --> 00:22:57.025
And then we can actually apply it in the other countries where we want to establish our farms and plants,

597
00:22:57.206 --> 00:22:57.886
like in New Zealand,

598
00:22:57.906 --> 00:22:58.346
for example.

599
00:22:58.986 --> 00:23:13.458
and it's not like it works in Namibia so it's going to work in New Zealand that's the challenge is that different types of water you know different types of access to processing material and so on so it's always very very different but still we can learn a lot from it so

600
00:23:13.779 --> 00:23:27.510
you're making these biostimulants maybe the first question to ask is what is a biostimulant and how does it differ from a fertilizer or is it a different name for a fertilizer like maybe you can tell us more about that yeah it's a interesting question because

601
00:23:27.814 --> 00:23:33.858
We have to come back to the regulation and all the different regulations across the world are different.

602
00:23:34.018 --> 00:23:34.418
So you have,

603
00:23:34.418 --> 00:23:34.958
for example,

604
00:23:34.958 --> 00:23:36.659
a biostimulant regulation in India,

605
00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:38.760
but you don't want,

606
00:23:38.800 --> 00:23:39.441
for example,

607
00:23:39.521 --> 00:23:39.881
in Ghana,

608
00:23:40.101 --> 00:23:40.361
you know,

609
00:23:40.582 --> 00:23:42.923
or you have one in Europe now,

610
00:23:43.003 --> 00:23:47.926
a new one that is harmonizing all the different regulations from the different countries.

611
00:23:48.306 --> 00:23:51.388
Because before France has a different regulation than Belgium,

612
00:23:51.788 --> 00:23:54.450
which has a different one than Austria or the Netherlands,

613
00:23:54.450 --> 00:23:54.670
you know.

614
00:23:55.190 --> 00:24:01.249
And what is the European regulation saying about biostimulants is that a product...

615
00:24:02.042 --> 00:24:03.944
independently of his fertilizing,

616
00:24:04.364 --> 00:24:04.804
basically,

617
00:24:04.884 --> 00:24:05.425
capacity,

618
00:24:06.065 --> 00:24:10.649
that is going to have an impact on nutrient use efficiency,

619
00:24:11.570 --> 00:24:13.872
resilience to abiotic stress,

620
00:24:14.772 --> 00:24:15.093
better,

621
00:24:15.633 --> 00:24:15.953
let's say,

622
00:24:16.254 --> 00:24:18.315
fruit quality or food quality.

623
00:24:19.016 --> 00:24:21.398
And then the last one is probably also having an impact,

624
00:24:21.478 --> 00:24:23.600
overall impact on soil health.

625
00:24:24.200 --> 00:24:26.302
So this is what the regulation is saying.

626
00:24:26.342 --> 00:24:26.502
But,

627
00:24:26.682 --> 00:24:26.922
you know,

628
00:24:27.022 --> 00:24:30.645
a different regulation is saying something different in the US.

629
00:24:30.765 --> 00:24:31.406
And...

630
00:24:31.826 --> 00:24:34.788
If I can now compare biostimulant and fertilizer,

631
00:24:35.389 --> 00:24:39.351
the fertilizer is going to bring nutrients to the soil,

632
00:24:39.912 --> 00:24:40.232
that's it,

633
00:24:40.732 --> 00:24:42.354
and PEK or other things,

634
00:24:42.874 --> 00:24:50.019
while the biostimulant is going to really have an impact on the plant's metabolism or the soil health.

635
00:24:50.479 --> 00:24:51.660
So if we use that,

636
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:52.081
if

637
00:24:52.601 --> 00:24:53.161
I am a human,

638
00:24:53.181 --> 00:24:53.662
for example,

639
00:24:53.902 --> 00:24:55.243
fertilizer would be the food

640
00:24:55.703 --> 00:24:56.023
I eat,

641
00:24:56.344 --> 00:24:57.404
so the nutrient I take,

642
00:24:57.865 --> 00:24:58.765
while biostimulant,

643
00:24:58.905 --> 00:24:59.766
they could be nutrients.

644
00:24:59.994 --> 00:25:29.570
somehow associated to more like the vitamins or the you know the prebiotics or probiotics that I would eat right so yeah fertilizer you bring in fertility you bring in minerals yes uh like let's say it could be the chemical npk but it could be compost organic yeah for example organic matter so you're bringing uh material exactly to feed the soil yeah and a biostimulants will be more about helping the plants to detect those nutrients exactly that's right okay yeah yeah i see so you would

645
00:25:29.710 --> 00:25:31.631
tend to use the dembow in combination?

646
00:25:32.232 --> 00:25:32.352
Yeah,

647
00:25:32.452 --> 00:25:32.772
exactly.

648
00:25:32.892 --> 00:25:33.012
So,

649
00:25:33.072 --> 00:25:33.332
you know,

650
00:25:33.632 --> 00:25:34.733
some people are saying like,

651
00:25:34.953 --> 00:25:35.173
okay,

652
00:25:35.413 --> 00:25:38.315
now we use a biostimulant to replace fertilizers.

653
00:25:38.956 --> 00:25:40.376
I don't think it works that way.

654
00:25:40.416 --> 00:25:42.278
I think it could be possible,

655
00:25:42.298 --> 00:25:46.620
but it's probably a really long process that can take up to five years.

656
00:25:47.281 --> 00:25:50.423
But what is interesting is that because the biostimulant,

657
00:25:50.783 --> 00:25:51.463
seaweed biostimulant,

658
00:25:51.483 --> 00:25:55.906
but I guess also other type of biostimulant can help for root elongation or...

659
00:25:56.606 --> 00:25:57.327
boost via,

660
00:25:57.607 --> 00:25:57.847
you know,

661
00:25:58.007 --> 00:25:59.568
roots communicating with microbiome,

662
00:26:00.249 --> 00:26:05.152
boost also the assimilation of the nutrient confined in the soil.

663
00:26:05.632 --> 00:26:06.253
Because of this,

664
00:26:06.333 --> 00:26:08.034
then you can reduce fertilizers.

665
00:26:08.254 --> 00:26:09.595
If you reduce fertilizers,

666
00:26:09.855 --> 00:26:12.797
what is happening is that you can also reduce runoff.

667
00:26:13.457 --> 00:26:16.279
If you reduce runoff that ends in the sea,

668
00:26:16.740 --> 00:26:18.121
also we are happier basically.

669
00:26:18.321 --> 00:26:18.441
So,

670
00:26:18.441 --> 00:26:18.681
you know,

671
00:26:18.981 --> 00:26:19.401
it kind of,

672
00:26:19.662 --> 00:26:22.083
what I usually like to say is people,

673
00:26:22.103 --> 00:26:25.966
they tend to only look at the ocean or only look at the land.

674
00:26:26.558 --> 00:26:32.341
And I think we should probably see it as a whole ecosystem and using the sea for the soil.

675
00:26:32.861 --> 00:26:34.422
But also if you use it,

676
00:26:34.622 --> 00:26:37.764
then the soil are also going to be used for the sea.

677
00:26:37.864 --> 00:26:38.084
You know,

678
00:26:38.084 --> 00:26:44.047
it's kind of the chain that you have to look at and how you can balance these two ecosystems together.

679
00:26:44.508 --> 00:26:44.628
Yeah.

680
00:26:45.028 --> 00:26:45.788
So at the moment,

681
00:26:45.828 --> 00:26:48.930
we hear a lot about the fact that we apply fertilizer.

682
00:26:49.650 --> 00:26:52.092
A lot of it is not actually taken up by the plants.

683
00:26:52.112 --> 00:26:55.814
It's kind of wasted and it runs off and goes into the...

684
00:26:56.474 --> 00:26:58.695
water ecosystems and it's quite damaging to them.

685
00:26:58.775 --> 00:26:59.775
And it actually creates,

686
00:26:59.895 --> 00:27:00.335
funny enough,

687
00:27:00.375 --> 00:27:01.355
but alga bloom.

688
00:27:02.516 --> 00:27:05.476
But these are not the nice algae that you want in the product.

689
00:27:05.877 --> 00:27:06.617
Or for example,

690
00:27:06.777 --> 00:27:08.977
in the Caribbean islands,

691
00:27:09.398 --> 00:27:12.298
now you can see a lot of Sargassum popping up.

692
00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:20.260
It's another type of seaweed and this is a problem because then you cannot go to swim anymore because it's full of Sargassum everywhere.

693
00:27:20.340 --> 00:27:23.261
And it's actually released the methane,

694
00:27:24.161 --> 00:27:25.622
which is a really bad gases.

695
00:27:25.702 --> 00:27:25.922
Okay.

696
00:27:26.414 --> 00:27:27.955
And if you can reduce the runoff,

697
00:27:28.335 --> 00:27:33.638
then probably also you can reduce this because this is just mother herb that is trying to defend herself,

698
00:27:33.678 --> 00:27:33.918
you know,

699
00:27:33.958 --> 00:27:36.279
producing more seaweed to absorb actually these things.

700
00:27:36.820 --> 00:27:39.401
And then the seaweed will perish and creates the methane.

701
00:27:40.662 --> 00:27:41.462
It's really interesting,

702
00:27:41.482 --> 00:27:45.564
but it's a huge ecosystem that we have to protect and that we have to regenerate.

703
00:27:45.865 --> 00:27:46.845
So not only the soil,

704
00:27:46.845 --> 00:27:47.806
but also the ocean.

705
00:27:48.906 --> 00:27:50.787
And to close the circle,

706
00:27:51.268 --> 00:27:53.349
since the kelp growing also needs fertility,

707
00:27:53.369 --> 00:27:55.230
it needs that nitrogen and things like that,

708
00:27:55.270 --> 00:27:55.530
that are...

709
00:27:56.070 --> 00:27:57.411
are running off from the fields.

710
00:27:58.431 --> 00:28:00.973
Is it also capturing a lot of that extra runoff,

711
00:28:01.053 --> 00:28:09.998
like that fertility that can then go back to the fields instead of being in the water and favoring type of algae that you don't want?

712
00:28:10.298 --> 00:28:10.438
Yeah,

713
00:28:10.558 --> 00:28:10.918
exactly.

714
00:28:11.178 --> 00:28:12.859
So when you have the runoff,

715
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:14.100
the seaweed,

716
00:28:14.180 --> 00:28:15.701
it works a bit like a sponge basically.

717
00:28:16.381 --> 00:28:18.642
So it absorbs everything that is in the sea.

718
00:28:18.902 --> 00:28:19.803
Heavy metals also,

719
00:28:20.303 --> 00:28:20.863
phosphorus.

720
00:28:21.444 --> 00:28:23.165
And basically by planting seaweed,

721
00:28:23.665 --> 00:28:25.606
you can also reduce

722
00:28:25.946 --> 00:28:30.579
acidification of the ocean or certification that is linked to,

723
00:28:30.619 --> 00:28:30.839
you know,

724
00:28:31.080 --> 00:28:33.105
phosphorus that goes to the ocean.

725
00:28:33.386 --> 00:28:33.526
Yeah.

726
00:28:33.907 --> 00:28:34.609
And basically.

727
00:28:35.254 --> 00:28:37.976
You have multiple benefits of using seaweed,

728
00:28:38.137 --> 00:28:42.600
but if you cultivate them the right way and if you bring back nutrients to the soil,

729
00:28:43.001 --> 00:28:45.323
because now we hear a lot of farmers saying,

730
00:28:45.803 --> 00:28:45.923
yeah,

731
00:28:45.963 --> 00:28:47.765
I don't have nutrients anymore in my soils.

732
00:28:48.566 --> 00:28:48.986
Potentially,

733
00:28:49.066 --> 00:28:49.306
yes.

734
00:28:49.486 --> 00:28:51.508
I think it's also the macrobe that is really important,

735
00:28:51.548 --> 00:28:56.733
but what is also key is to bring back these nutrients to the soil through seaweed cultivation.

736
00:28:56.813 --> 00:28:58.234
You probably have other ways to do it,

737
00:28:58.774 --> 00:29:02.938
but seaweed cultivation is for me one really interesting because then you can link the two ecosystem.

738
00:29:03.382 --> 00:29:04.983
So you said that it was a biostimulant,

739
00:29:05.023 --> 00:29:06.684
so it's not actually bringing fertility,

740
00:29:06.744 --> 00:29:08.105
but just stimulating the root.

741
00:29:08.505 --> 00:29:11.346
Is there also macronutrients present in that?

742
00:29:11.907 --> 00:29:12.127
Yes,

743
00:29:12.667 --> 00:29:13.067
definitely.

744
00:29:13.167 --> 00:29:15.209
So we do have them.

745
00:29:15.429 --> 00:29:16.950
It's not as big as fertilizer,

746
00:29:17.210 --> 00:29:18.370
but we still have phosphorus.

747
00:29:18.410 --> 00:29:20.191
We have a lot of phosphorus in the products.

748
00:29:20.351 --> 00:29:22.272
We have also nitrogen.

749
00:29:22.873 --> 00:29:25.134
We have some also micronutrients.

750
00:29:25.434 --> 00:29:28.056
So definitely we bring some fertilizing material,

751
00:29:28.616 --> 00:29:30.357
but the definition is more that's...

752
00:29:31.054 --> 00:29:34.796
Independently of bringing this fertilizing material,

753
00:29:34.976 --> 00:29:38.218
there is also these things that is like nutrient availability,

754
00:29:38.438 --> 00:29:38.558
etc.

755
00:29:38.818 --> 00:29:38.958
Okay.

756
00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:43.301
Aren't a lot of those nutrients also in the solid part,

757
00:29:43.321 --> 00:29:44.942
the pulp that you're filtering out?

758
00:29:45.262 --> 00:29:48.483
And is there any way you can use that also to bring back fertility to the fields?

759
00:29:48.483 --> 00:29:49.504
Is that something you're looking into?

760
00:29:49.784 --> 00:29:49.904
Yeah,

761
00:29:49.964 --> 00:29:51.585
thanks for asking the question.

762
00:29:52.205 --> 00:29:56.148
Now what we're trying to create is what we call alginate pellets.

763
00:29:57.028 --> 00:30:00.550
So we have potassium alginate pellets and sodium alginate pellets.

764
00:30:00.610 --> 00:30:17.462
pellets what is really interesting with these pellets so it's basically you know like a pellets but that are fully natural only made with seaweed you would apply them on the soil and like this you can bring a lot of nutrients organic nutrient to the soil but also you still have compounds that

765
00:30:17.502 --> 00:30:28.970
during the decanter remember solid fraction liquid fraction that are going in the pulp like the alginate and alginate it's retaining water in the soil and creates porosity you

766
00:30:29.466 --> 00:30:33.948
So let's say you are a farmer and you are facing drought stress,

767
00:30:34.268 --> 00:30:35.669
so you cannot grow your crops anymore.

768
00:30:35.669 --> 00:30:39.171
Then you can apply these alginate pellets.

769
00:30:39.551 --> 00:30:40.731
They would retain the water.

770
00:30:41.011 --> 00:30:43.072
So in case it doesn't run for a long time,

771
00:30:43.072 --> 00:30:45.073
then the soil will still get a bit of water.

772
00:30:45.193 --> 00:30:50.416
And alginate is also a sugar that can communicate with or that can recruit,

773
00:30:50.576 --> 00:30:50.816
let's say,

774
00:30:50.816 --> 00:30:52.016
or feed the microbiome.

775
00:30:52.157 --> 00:30:52.917
So the fungi,

776
00:30:53.457 --> 00:30:54.157
the bacteria,

777
00:30:54.598 --> 00:30:54.738
etc.

778
00:30:55.858 --> 00:30:59.539
And let's say you are a farmer and you face fluid issues,

779
00:31:00.139 --> 00:31:01.520
we've seen in the UK recently.

780
00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:05.621
What is interesting with the pellets is that they also create porosity.

781
00:31:05.621 --> 00:31:10.682
Because what is happening is that when you have no porosity in your soil and your soil is really compact,

782
00:31:11.102 --> 00:31:15.423
then the water cannot penetrate the soil and stays on the surface.

783
00:31:15.843 --> 00:31:24.226
And this is really problematic because then you have less oxygen in the soils and then you have conditions where you have actually oxidation and this kills the plants.

784
00:31:24.226 --> 00:31:24.866
So if you can

785
00:31:25.574 --> 00:31:46.245
create porosity and in the meantime protect from these weather events then i think it's also really interesting awesome yes it helps with fertility with soil structure with water retention all of these things that you need to yeah to have a healthy soil it helps and now we need to understand how it helps in which conditions because sometimes it's going to work really really well and

786
00:31:46.325 --> 00:31:54.410
sometimes not as plant so for this we have lots of research going on in different you know countries and with different types of

787
00:31:54.750 --> 00:31:58.991
institutes or even farmers to explore the science behind this.

788
00:31:59.231 --> 00:31:59.431
Okay.

789
00:31:59.491 --> 00:32:00.112
So at the moment,

790
00:32:00.172 --> 00:32:01.732
it's not something commercialized yet?

791
00:32:02.432 --> 00:32:03.472
The alginate pellets,

792
00:32:03.993 --> 00:32:04.113
no.

793
00:32:04.493 --> 00:32:06.453
It's still basically under R&D,

794
00:32:06.753 --> 00:32:08.834
but we already have product that we're testing.

795
00:32:09.374 --> 00:32:10.014
The biostimulant,

796
00:32:10.074 --> 00:32:10.194
yeah,

797
00:32:10.254 --> 00:32:11.335
it is commercialized,

798
00:32:11.335 --> 00:32:12.575
but also for the biostimulant,

799
00:32:12.575 --> 00:32:13.855
we still have lots of studies.

800
00:32:14.075 --> 00:32:17.356
We have actually a great program that we call Ambassador Farmers,

801
00:32:18.057 --> 00:32:19.297
where we partner with,

802
00:32:19.537 --> 00:32:20.757
it's kind of influencers,

803
00:32:20.997 --> 00:32:22.718
but really well-known farmers.

804
00:32:23.478 --> 00:32:25.380
In the regional space,

805
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:27.201
but also conventional ones that are,

806
00:32:27.281 --> 00:32:27.542
you know,

807
00:32:27.762 --> 00:32:28.903
influencing other farmers,

808
00:32:29.343 --> 00:32:33.286
we partner with them to do tests during three years where we look at,

809
00:32:33.347 --> 00:32:33.587
you know,

810
00:32:33.567 --> 00:32:37.370
the impact of biostimulant on the microbiome or on plant health,

811
00:32:37.770 --> 00:32:39.352
return on investment and so on.

812
00:32:39.972 --> 00:32:41.213
And then we communicate together.

813
00:32:41.553 --> 00:32:51.302
So the goal of this program is to create a kind of network of farmers where we can all exchange knowledge on how do we actually shift towards a more...

814
00:32:52.022 --> 00:32:56.525
regenerative or more sustainable agriculture industry.

815
00:32:57.306 --> 00:32:59.147
And just exchanging knowledge.

816
00:32:59.407 --> 00:33:00.728
You were also at Groundswell.

817
00:33:00.948 --> 00:33:03.410
We had some of our ambassador farmers there.

818
00:33:03.831 --> 00:33:05.692
One actually won the

819
00:33:06.472 --> 00:33:08.054
Soil Science Prize.

820
00:33:08.714 --> 00:33:12.557
So you know it's all about how do we communicate and bring the knowledge together.

821
00:33:12.797 --> 00:33:14.278
So it's still very early days.

822
00:33:14.318 --> 00:33:15.579
You're still doing a lot of trials,

823
00:33:15.579 --> 00:33:16.440
a lot of studies,

824
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:19.682
both with the biostimulants and with the pellets.

825
00:33:20.162 --> 00:33:21.743
So it's still early days,

826
00:33:21.803 --> 00:33:23.783
but how do you feel about it so far?

827
00:33:23.843 --> 00:33:24.963
What is the feedback,

828
00:33:25.184 --> 00:33:31.485
whether it's the scientific numbers that you already got or just the face to face feedback from the farmers that you collaborate with?

829
00:33:31.885 --> 00:33:32.005
Yeah,

830
00:33:32.085 --> 00:33:32.766
it's a long journey.

831
00:33:32.946 --> 00:33:33.626
We are at the beginning,

832
00:33:33.686 --> 00:33:36.707
but we are also already commercializing our product in different countries.

833
00:33:36.747 --> 00:33:39.528
So we're commercializing it in Chile,

834
00:33:40.128 --> 00:33:40.768
in France,

835
00:33:40.888 --> 00:33:41.748
in the Netherlands,

836
00:33:42.308 --> 00:33:44.149
in various places around the world.

837
00:33:44.309 --> 00:33:47.590
So we are also starting to get product to farmers through distributors,

838
00:33:47.630 --> 00:33:47.970
et cetera.

839
00:33:48.754 --> 00:33:52.397
The journey is all about building the science behind the product,

840
00:33:52.537 --> 00:33:53.037
because this is,

841
00:33:53.117 --> 00:33:53.437
I think,

842
00:33:53.497 --> 00:33:58.801
what is really going to help the industry to shift to something more sustainable.

843
00:33:59.261 --> 00:33:59.762
So for this,

844
00:34:00.282 --> 00:34:06.366
we also launched half a million budgets on field trials everywhere in the world with accredited agencies.

845
00:34:07.087 --> 00:34:07.507
So we have,

846
00:34:07.567 --> 00:34:07.867
I think,

847
00:34:07.947 --> 00:34:13.151
16 different crops and 63 field trials with four replicates,

848
00:34:13.411 --> 00:34:14.271
five treatments,

849
00:34:14.372 --> 00:34:15.953
five different treatments with control,

850
00:34:16.133 --> 00:34:17.334
competitor products,

851
00:34:17.394 --> 00:34:17.754
different...

852
00:34:18.014 --> 00:34:18.494
dosage.

853
00:34:19.034 --> 00:34:24.116
And all this is basically helping us to build the perfect case.

854
00:34:24.296 --> 00:34:25.156
So let's say you're a farmer,

855
00:34:25.196 --> 00:34:26.597
you're coming to us in five years.

856
00:34:27.337 --> 00:34:28.477
You just have to tell us,

857
00:34:28.557 --> 00:34:28.737
okay,

858
00:34:28.757 --> 00:34:29.738
what is the type of soil?

859
00:34:29.898 --> 00:34:30.998
What is the type of crops?

860
00:34:31.338 --> 00:34:32.378
A few other parameters.

861
00:34:32.459 --> 00:34:34.019
And then we can come back to you and say,

862
00:34:34.059 --> 00:34:34.219
okay,

863
00:34:34.759 --> 00:34:35.459
in this case,

864
00:34:35.660 --> 00:34:37.580
we would recommend you to use this amount.

865
00:34:37.900 --> 00:34:41.541
Or it can also be that I want to reduce my fertilizer by 30%.

866
00:34:42.202 --> 00:34:43.322
How can I use your product?

867
00:34:43.750 --> 00:34:46.191
And this is the kind of discussion that we'd love to have,

868
00:34:46.211 --> 00:34:46.631
but for this,

869
00:34:46.631 --> 00:34:51.152
we need really to build a solid quantitative data.

870
00:34:51.612 --> 00:34:51.732
Yeah,

871
00:34:51.792 --> 00:34:52.112
obviously.

872
00:34:52.292 --> 00:34:52.512
Yes.

873
00:34:53.173 --> 00:34:53.773
At the moment,

874
00:34:54.473 --> 00:34:59.834
what kind of return on investment can you hope for as a farmer compared to what you're used to doing?

875
00:35:00.074 --> 00:35:01.735
So the price of the products,

876
00:35:01.735 --> 00:35:02.895
the biostimulants right now,

877
00:35:03.615 --> 00:35:06.196
I don't know if you have that kind of data or information yet.

878
00:35:06.596 --> 00:35:06.716
Yeah,

879
00:35:06.696 --> 00:35:06.916
we do.

880
00:35:07.456 --> 00:35:08.617
We do for some crops.

881
00:35:08.957 --> 00:35:10.317
Let's take an example.

882
00:35:10.877 --> 00:35:13.358
The question is kind of tricky to answer because it depends.

883
00:35:13.938 --> 00:35:14.739
It always depends.

884
00:35:14.999 --> 00:35:18.742
Let's say currently you're wheat farmers in the UK,

885
00:35:19.502 --> 00:35:20.043
then it depends.

886
00:35:20.083 --> 00:35:22.084
Do you want to maintain your yield,

887
00:35:22.164 --> 00:35:23.445
but reducing fertilizer,

888
00:35:23.565 --> 00:35:25.947
or do you want to increase your yield and keeping the same fertilizer?

889
00:35:26.127 --> 00:35:28.989
It's a little bit like the question that we have to discuss.

890
00:35:29.749 --> 00:35:32.831
But let's say we did a lot of tests in the UK with farmers,

891
00:35:33.332 --> 00:35:37.875
and what we've seen on wheat is usually an increase in yield between 5% and 10%.

892
00:35:38.835 --> 00:35:40.256
The fertilizer,

893
00:35:40.637 --> 00:35:42.318
usually they cost anything between

894
00:35:42.718 --> 00:35:42.938
you know,

895
00:35:42.938 --> 00:35:48.462
200 to 400 euros per or pounds per hectares or acres.

896
00:35:49.142 --> 00:35:55.266
And what we've seen is that we can reduce fertilizers in most of the cases by up to 30%.

897
00:35:55.990 --> 00:35:59.552
If you can reduce by 30% 300 euros,

898
00:35:59.792 --> 00:36:02.614
it means that then at the end you only have to pay 200 euros.

899
00:36:03.174 --> 00:36:08.177
And our product costs per hectare approximately anything between 20 to 60,

900
00:36:08.817 --> 00:36:10.398
which means that at the end you can,

901
00:36:11.559 --> 00:36:12.960
while you maintain your yield actually,

902
00:36:13.560 --> 00:36:17.922
still create anything between 20 to 50 euros per hectare.

903
00:36:18.202 --> 00:36:18.523
Okay,

904
00:36:18.603 --> 00:36:18.943
that's great.

905
00:36:18.943 --> 00:36:19.063
Yeah,

906
00:36:19.083 --> 00:36:19.363
exactly.

907
00:36:19.463 --> 00:36:22.985
While actually boosting the yield by 5 to 6%.

908
00:36:23.525 --> 00:36:24.226
So this is on wheat.

909
00:36:24.910 --> 00:36:26.592
And there is one test that we were all like,

910
00:36:26.872 --> 00:36:27.873
this was the really beginning.

911
00:36:27.933 --> 00:36:28.473
We were all like,

912
00:36:28.613 --> 00:36:28.994
whoa,

913
00:36:29.074 --> 00:36:29.554
what the fuck,

914
00:36:29.554 --> 00:36:29.774
you know?

915
00:36:30.555 --> 00:36:31.636
We did a test in

916
00:36:31.976 --> 00:36:32.937
Spain with IdeaGro,

917
00:36:33.217 --> 00:36:37.801
which is an accredited company by the Spanish government on grapes,

918
00:36:38.201 --> 00:36:38.762
table grapes.

919
00:36:39.262 --> 00:36:42.986
And we had with two liters per hectare that we applied three times.

920
00:36:43.126 --> 00:36:48.610
So six liters per hectare in total and increased in yield of 36%.

921
00:36:49.071 --> 00:36:50.732
So just to put this into numbers,

922
00:36:51.032 --> 00:36:52.634
36% increase in yield.

923
00:36:52.934 --> 00:36:53.415
means that,

924
00:36:53.675 --> 00:36:54.976
and they did the calculation,

925
00:36:55.456 --> 00:36:56.677
means that per hectare,

926
00:36:56.677 --> 00:37:02.122
you can get additional between 5,000 and 7,000 kilograms of table grapes,

927
00:37:02.723 --> 00:37:03.143
additional.

928
00:37:04.024 --> 00:37:04.424
Price,

929
00:37:04.544 --> 00:37:10.169
the wholesale price of table grapes is between 1.2 and 2 euros per kilogram.

930
00:37:10.429 --> 00:37:12.651
So then basically the profit that,

931
00:37:12.832 --> 00:37:17.616
or at least the revenue that you can make is around 7,000 to 10,000 euros.

932
00:37:18.176 --> 00:37:19.998
And then the product costs like 100 euros.

933
00:37:20.602 --> 00:37:21.963
So the return is just massive.

934
00:37:21.963 --> 00:37:23.765
So of course this doesn't happen every time,

935
00:37:23.805 --> 00:37:24.105
but yeah,

936
00:37:24.326 --> 00:37:24.526
okay.

937
00:37:24.706 --> 00:37:27.268
What we have to understand now is when,

938
00:37:27.529 --> 00:37:27.669
uh,

939
00:37:27.689 --> 00:37:29.250
what are the parameters in this,

940
00:37:29.550 --> 00:37:30.972
in where this case would,

941
00:37:31.192 --> 00:37:31.652
uh,

942
00:37:31.652 --> 00:37:33.915
be possible again to kind of replicate it.

943
00:37:34.515 --> 00:37:34.675
Yeah.

944
00:37:34.896 --> 00:37:35.816
That's incredible.

945
00:37:35.816 --> 00:37:35.997
I mean,

946
00:37:36.637 --> 00:37:40.761
it already proves that there's a massive potential and maybe it doesn't work in every context.

947
00:37:40.981 --> 00:37:45.786
Maybe you need to figure out exactly how to maximize the impact for each.

948
00:37:46.306 --> 00:37:47.086
individual contexts.

949
00:37:47.166 --> 00:37:49.868
But having those kind of results already must be super exciting,

950
00:37:49.908 --> 00:37:50.048
right?

951
00:37:50.048 --> 00:37:50.808
And super promising.

952
00:37:51.048 --> 00:37:51.168
Yeah,

953
00:37:51.208 --> 00:37:51.508
exactly.

954
00:37:51.648 --> 00:37:52.929
So when we got the results,

955
00:37:52.929 --> 00:37:54.410
we were with all the team,

956
00:37:54.410 --> 00:37:54.650
you know,

957
00:37:54.910 --> 00:37:59.192
just working and the results arrived on my computer and I was like,

958
00:37:59.672 --> 00:37:59.972
oh guys,

959
00:37:59.992 --> 00:38:01.173
I think you have to see something.

960
00:38:01.353 --> 00:38:04.874
And from the agronomic team to the people working in the hatchery,

961
00:38:05.214 --> 00:38:06.115
like we were discussing,

962
00:38:06.535 --> 00:38:10.176
we were all like celebrating this because it was like a massive milestone basically.

963
00:38:10.276 --> 00:38:10.417
Yeah,

964
00:38:10.577 --> 00:38:10.697
yeah.

965
00:38:11.517 --> 00:38:12.277
I can imagine that.

966
00:38:12.738 --> 00:38:13.178
Exciting.

967
00:38:13.358 --> 00:38:13.498
Yeah.

968
00:38:14.402 --> 00:38:16.403
I have a really small favor to ask.

969
00:38:16.523 --> 00:38:20.745
If you're enjoying this conversation and would like to support my work and this podcast,

970
00:38:20.785 --> 00:38:23.006
you can do that in just five seconds.

971
00:38:24.027 --> 00:38:26.068
Wherever you're listening to this podcast right now,

972
00:38:26.188 --> 00:38:26.828
Spotify,

973
00:38:26.948 --> 00:38:27.729
Apple Podcasts,

974
00:38:27.729 --> 00:38:28.989
or a different platform,

975
00:38:29.830 --> 00:38:33.491
just click on the deep seat page and hit the follow button.

976
00:38:34.232 --> 00:38:38.134
It would really help me and I would be very grateful for your help.

977
00:38:38.514 --> 00:38:38.834
Thank you.

978
00:38:40.918 --> 00:38:43.060
How does it all connect to regenerative agriculture?

979
00:38:43.060 --> 00:38:43.220
I mean,

980
00:38:43.200 --> 00:38:46.643
this podcast is centered around the topic of regenerative food systems.

981
00:38:47.383 --> 00:38:48.604
We've talked about the sea kelp,

982
00:38:48.664 --> 00:38:50.025
we've talked about the biostimulants.

983
00:38:50.085 --> 00:38:50.365
Obviously,

984
00:38:50.425 --> 00:38:52.247
we're very closely related to

985
00:38:52.667 --> 00:38:53.048
Region Ag,

986
00:38:53.128 --> 00:38:58.672
but I'd like to sort of maybe bring the conversation towards how does this help the transition to Region Ag?

987
00:38:59.112 --> 00:38:59.232
Yeah,

988
00:38:59.272 --> 00:38:59.513
great.

989
00:39:00.753 --> 00:39:03.055
I think the answer is the transition indeed.

990
00:39:03.556 --> 00:39:06.318
Probably my sense of Region Ag is that at some point,

991
00:39:06.678 --> 00:39:10.760
your soil and your ecosystem is so good that you don't need to add additional input.

992
00:39:11.500 --> 00:39:12.941
It should like strive by itself.

993
00:39:13.701 --> 00:39:14.881
But to get to this,

994
00:39:14.981 --> 00:39:16.102
you probably need a transition.

995
00:39:16.302 --> 00:39:18.583
It's just that you stop everything in one go.

996
00:39:19.043 --> 00:39:19.603
And for this,

997
00:39:19.903 --> 00:39:22.064
you can basically use the biostimulants.

998
00:39:22.244 --> 00:39:26.066
And what we're trying to do now is to create a kind of regenerative package with alginates,

999
00:39:26.606 --> 00:39:26.966
pellets,

1000
00:39:27.246 --> 00:39:28.127
the biostimulants,

1001
00:39:28.167 --> 00:39:35.189
and maybe some other things that we would give to farmers to transition towards regenerative agriculture,

1002
00:39:35.670 --> 00:39:36.210
which means that...

1003
00:39:36.510 --> 00:39:37.671
like we were explaining,

1004
00:39:37.911 --> 00:39:43.435
if you can increase nutrient uptake and you can reduce fertilizer,

1005
00:39:44.115 --> 00:39:45.476
maybe the first year,

1006
00:39:45.636 --> 00:39:46.117
10%,

1007
00:39:46.277 --> 00:39:46.737
second year,

1008
00:39:46.937 --> 00:39:47.237
20,

1009
00:39:47.458 --> 00:39:47.758
30.

1010
00:39:47.958 --> 00:39:49.379
And then basically in five years,

1011
00:39:49.379 --> 00:39:58.525
you can probably try to have an ecosystem without having to bring additional nutrients or pesticides because your plants are stronger.

1012
00:39:59.826 --> 00:40:05.150
Because what is interesting also in seaweed is that you have some compounds that can help to boost.

1013
00:40:05.486 --> 00:40:06.667
the metabolism,

1014
00:40:06.747 --> 00:40:09.810
but also the defense metabolism of the plants,

1015
00:40:10.310 --> 00:40:11.732
not only against abiotic stress,

1016
00:40:11.772 --> 00:40:13.313
but also about biotic stress.

1017
00:40:13.433 --> 00:40:15.715
But this is currently being studied a lot.

1018
00:40:16.496 --> 00:40:18.057
So if you can reduce fertilizers,

1019
00:40:18.077 --> 00:40:20.640
then you can basically help this regenerate transition.

1020
00:40:21.501 --> 00:40:21.621
And

1021
00:40:22.161 --> 00:40:23.002
I think for a farmer,

1022
00:40:23.142 --> 00:40:25.044
if he knows that when he gets a product,

1023
00:40:25.544 --> 00:40:27.766
it also helps to regenerate the ocean.

1024
00:40:28.527 --> 00:40:29.288
It's also,

1025
00:40:29.408 --> 00:40:29.688
I think,

1026
00:40:29.708 --> 00:40:31.750
quite interesting while sometimes you get a product.

1027
00:40:32.030 --> 00:40:35.171
and the product is actually just having a bigger impact,

1028
00:40:35.511 --> 00:40:37.932
but like a negative one in the ecosystem.

1029
00:40:38.572 --> 00:40:43.433
So I think now we should also start thinking of where do we get our input from?

1030
00:40:43.653 --> 00:40:45.074
Is it a sustainable input?

1031
00:40:45.634 --> 00:40:46.754
Do they cultivate seaweed?

1032
00:40:46.754 --> 00:40:47.715
Do they wild harvest?

1033
00:40:47.715 --> 00:40:47.915
You know,

1034
00:40:47.935 --> 00:40:49.215
like all these kind of different...

1035
00:40:49.715 --> 00:40:49.875
Okay,

1036
00:40:50.135 --> 00:40:52.216
maybe that's an interesting point to get into a little bit.

1037
00:40:52.336 --> 00:40:58.058
There's different sources of seaweed-based biostimulants by different harvesting methods,

1038
00:40:58.118 --> 00:40:58.458
different...

1039
00:40:59.098 --> 00:40:59.218
But...

1040
00:40:59.758 --> 00:41:01.580
What's the sort of industry looks like?

1041
00:41:01.700 --> 00:41:01.860
Yeah,

1042
00:41:02.561 --> 00:41:04.623
so it's interesting because you have different types of seaweed.

1043
00:41:05.204 --> 00:41:09.048
Ascophyllum that represents 70% of the bio-stimulant markets.

1044
00:41:09.448 --> 00:41:11.450
Then you have Eclonia that is probably around,

1045
00:41:12.011 --> 00:41:13.412
I think 20 to 30.

1046
00:41:13.492 --> 00:41:17.656
And then you have like some minor other seaweed microcystis being part of them basically.

1047
00:41:18.217 --> 00:41:19.198
And all the seaweeds,

1048
00:41:19.438 --> 00:41:20.179
they have different...

1049
00:41:20.651 --> 00:41:23.093
compounds and they have different benefits.

1050
00:41:23.333 --> 00:41:26.095
So it's not one seaweed works better than another one.

1051
00:41:26.735 --> 00:41:27.236
Maybe yes,

1052
00:41:27.416 --> 00:41:29.998
but for certain reasons or certain parameters.

1053
00:41:30.678 --> 00:41:35.101
And then what is interesting to understand is if it's a cultivated seaweed,

1054
00:41:35.381 --> 00:41:40.745
it means that potentially you can have a good impact on biodiversity or on carbon sequestration,

1055
00:41:40.805 --> 00:41:42.166
like Caroline was saying at the beginning.

1056
00:41:43.047 --> 00:41:45.809
If it's from wild collection,

1057
00:41:46.429 --> 00:41:48.731
it means that basically people are going...

1058
00:41:48.971 --> 00:41:52.554
in the sea to get access to a wild seaweed to cut them.

1059
00:41:53.175 --> 00:41:56.217
And potentially there are ways to do it that are sustainable,

1060
00:41:56.677 --> 00:41:59.260
but there are also ways to do it that are non-sustainable,

1061
00:41:59.380 --> 00:42:02.282
which means that if you cut all the seaweed in one place,

1062
00:42:02.763 --> 00:42:09.748
then it's kind of reproducing what we did on the land when we were cutting trees to make paper and we're still doing it in some places.

1063
00:42:10.349 --> 00:42:17.395
But that's really important to understand that the source of bio-instrument has to be sustainable to have an impact.

1064
00:42:18.163 --> 00:42:18.644
Otherwise,

1065
00:42:18.764 --> 00:42:20.325
it's really nice that you get your seaweed,

1066
00:42:20.385 --> 00:42:23.147
but the impact is much lower than it could be.

1067
00:42:23.788 --> 00:42:23.908
Yeah,

1068
00:42:23.968 --> 00:42:24.188
okay.

1069
00:42:24.849 --> 00:42:27.611
How do you find out the source of your product?

1070
00:42:27.631 --> 00:42:28.972
Is it easy to understand?

1071
00:42:29.092 --> 00:42:33.556
Like if I'm buying the StimBlue Plus biostimulant from KelpBlue,

1072
00:42:33.816 --> 00:42:35.678
how do I know where it came from?

1073
00:42:36.158 --> 00:42:36.278
Yeah,

1074
00:42:36.318 --> 00:42:38.380
it's an interesting question.

1075
00:42:38.500 --> 00:42:38.620
So

1076
00:42:39.301 --> 00:42:40.602
I think I'll discuss it with

1077
00:42:41.282 --> 00:42:43.624
Anouk, who is basically in the marketing team.

1078
00:42:43.644 --> 00:42:46.747
But what I would really love to have is a kind of QR code in the product.

1079
00:42:47.295 --> 00:42:48.416
that farmers would scan.

1080
00:42:48.996 --> 00:42:50.517
And then they see actually videos,

1081
00:42:50.737 --> 00:42:50.978
you know,

1082
00:42:51.018 --> 00:42:55.961
30 seconds to one minute explaining what we're doing from the beginning to the end.

1083
00:42:56.241 --> 00:42:58.923
So from the hatchery to cultivating seaweed,

1084
00:42:59.123 --> 00:42:59.243
to,

1085
00:42:59.804 --> 00:43:00.044
you know,

1086
00:43:00.064 --> 00:43:02.906
harvesting them with the solar panel vessel,

1087
00:43:03.026 --> 00:43:03.726
processing them.

1088
00:43:04.046 --> 00:43:04.787
And then at the end,

1089
00:43:04.967 --> 00:43:06.028
they really understand like,

1090
00:43:06.488 --> 00:43:06.868
how do we,

1091
00:43:08.029 --> 00:43:09.050
how do we make one product?

1092
00:43:09.590 --> 00:43:11.031
Because indeed it's a really good question,

1093
00:43:11.071 --> 00:43:14.233
but if you look at the different products made out of seaweed,

1094
00:43:14.613 --> 00:43:16.695
you don't see in the label cultivated seaweed.

1095
00:43:17.099 --> 00:43:20.660
You don't see it a lot because not a lot of people are actually cultivating seaweed.

1096
00:43:20.861 --> 00:43:21.701
It's something quite new.

1097
00:43:22.041 --> 00:43:28.884
And the industry is moving towards it because also you have very strict regulations now when it comes to wild harvesting seaweeds.

1098
00:43:28.904 --> 00:43:29.604
You have quotas.

1099
00:43:30.264 --> 00:43:33.906
The industry is kind of forced and pushed to cultivate it,

1100
00:43:34.006 --> 00:43:35.066
but it's going to take time.

1101
00:43:35.106 --> 00:43:36.987
So it's already important to look at this,

1102
00:43:37.007 --> 00:43:37.307
I think.

1103
00:43:37.667 --> 00:43:37.807
Yeah,

1104
00:43:38.047 --> 00:43:38.168
yeah,

1105
00:43:38.468 --> 00:43:38.648
sure.

1106
00:43:38.808 --> 00:43:39.508
That would be great,

1107
00:43:39.548 --> 00:43:39.788
actually.

1108
00:43:39.848 --> 00:43:42.689
But you said earlier that you can trace the products.

1109
00:43:42.749 --> 00:43:42.969
I mean,

1110
00:43:43.069 --> 00:43:43.490
in-house,

1111
00:43:43.510 --> 00:43:45.370
you guys can trace the products.

1112
00:43:45.631 --> 00:43:46.331
So each bottle,

1113
00:43:46.351 --> 00:43:46.651
you know.

1114
00:43:47.335 --> 00:43:48.296
each step of the process,

1115
00:43:48.336 --> 00:43:48.976
where it came from,

1116
00:43:49.536 --> 00:43:52.078
down to exactly which piece of sea,

1117
00:43:52.358 --> 00:43:54.199
which platform that kelp came from,

1118
00:43:54.279 --> 00:43:54.499
right?

1119
00:43:55.119 --> 00:44:02.263
That would be actually really cool for a consumer to be able to scan its products in the bottle and see the exact coordinates,

1120
00:44:02.263 --> 00:44:05.624
the exact location of where that kelp was grown.

1121
00:44:05.905 --> 00:44:06.585
It would be really cool.

1122
00:44:06.645 --> 00:44:07.646
It would be amazing.

1123
00:44:07.706 --> 00:44:09.587
Imagine you going to a supermarket,

1124
00:44:09.687 --> 00:44:10.267
getting your bread.

1125
00:44:10.775 --> 00:44:12.096
And then you actually know like,

1126
00:44:12.356 --> 00:44:12.537
okay,

1127
00:44:12.557 --> 00:44:20.864
so this bread has been made out of wheat harvested with this farmer who is using this kind of practices processed here in this plant.

1128
00:44:21.044 --> 00:44:22.125
And then here you go,

1129
00:44:22.565 --> 00:44:22.826
you know,

1130
00:44:23.106 --> 00:44:25.148
it's maklik like we say in Dutch or bon appetit.

1131
00:44:25.208 --> 00:44:25.728
Yeah,

1132
00:44:25.968 --> 00:44:26.649
that would be amazing,

1133
00:44:26.669 --> 00:44:29.311
but probably very difficult to do with wheat because that's,

1134
00:44:29.351 --> 00:44:30.893
it's all agglomerated in like big,

1135
00:44:30.953 --> 00:44:31.073
big,

1136
00:44:31.133 --> 00:44:32.274
big batches of wheat.

1137
00:44:32.334 --> 00:44:33.395
But in the case of the

1138
00:44:35.120 --> 00:44:37.962
It's you own the whole operation from start to finish.

1139
00:44:37.962 --> 00:44:38.582
In all cases,

1140
00:44:39.142 --> 00:44:39.583
it's easy.

1141
00:44:39.683 --> 00:44:41.504
But if you look at other biostimulants,

1142
00:44:41.504 --> 00:44:43.345
it's really difficult because it's quite fragmented.

1143
00:44:43.825 --> 00:44:44.285
So people,

1144
00:44:44.325 --> 00:44:46.407
they usually harvest seaweed and then they sell them,

1145
00:44:46.827 --> 00:44:47.848
or they cultivate them,

1146
00:44:48.108 --> 00:44:48.708
then they sell them.

1147
00:44:48.868 --> 00:44:49.929
Someone is going to buy them,

1148
00:44:50.109 --> 00:44:50.609
process them.

1149
00:44:50.970 --> 00:44:55.092
Then you have like several distributors before the product gets to farmers.

1150
00:44:55.492 --> 00:44:58.194
And what is happening is when you have several people,

1151
00:44:58.434 --> 00:44:59.675
then you lose margins.

1152
00:45:00.567 --> 00:45:02.088
And if you lose margins,

1153
00:45:02.168 --> 00:45:02.629
then at the end,

1154
00:45:02.629 --> 00:45:06.632
the farmer is paying for something very expensive because all the businesses in between,

1155
00:45:06.652 --> 00:45:08.114
they need to remunerate themselves.

1156
00:45:08.674 --> 00:45:10.356
So we have control of this margin.

1157
00:45:10.396 --> 00:45:10.796
So for us,

1158
00:45:10.816 --> 00:45:13.919
it's much easier to get to a product that is affordable also.

1159
00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:21.746
So I read on your website as well that you have a new product that is not aimed towards necessarily farmers,

1160
00:45:21.786 --> 00:45:23.387
but towards home gardeners,

1161
00:45:23.447 --> 00:45:23.968
growers.

1162
00:45:24.788 --> 00:45:26.550
How does it differ from the other?

1163
00:45:27.070 --> 00:45:27.310
Yeah,

1164
00:45:27.330 --> 00:45:27.791
it's actually...

1165
00:45:28.131 --> 00:45:28.812
Very similar,

1166
00:45:29.012 --> 00:45:35.496
it's just the concentration of the product is much lower because if it's the biostimulant for farmers,

1167
00:45:36.017 --> 00:45:37.558
we recommend two liters only.

1168
00:45:37.718 --> 00:45:39.439
So two bottles for one hectare.

1169
00:45:40.140 --> 00:45:42.562
If it's just one plant that you have at home,

1170
00:45:42.562 --> 00:45:42.802
you know,

1171
00:45:43.502 --> 00:45:45.564
it would be way more too concentrated.

1172
00:45:45.904 --> 00:45:47.125
And if it's too concentrated,

1173
00:45:47.365 --> 00:45:51.008
then you are going to actually tire the plants if you apply it on the plants.

1174
00:45:51.008 --> 00:45:53.209
Because it's like if you drink a lot of coffee,

1175
00:45:53.289 --> 00:45:53.850
then at some point,

1176
00:45:53.930 --> 00:45:54.190
you know,

1177
00:45:54.190 --> 00:45:55.311
you start shaking and everything.

1178
00:45:55.835 --> 00:45:57.576
And this is why we dilute it.

1179
00:45:57.796 --> 00:46:02.539
And then we use also different types of molecules that are good for home plants.

1180
00:46:03.539 --> 00:46:03.659
So

1181
00:46:04.020 --> 00:46:05.020
I'm starting to test it.

1182
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:06.241
As you can see around,

1183
00:46:06.521 --> 00:46:07.962
lots of plants growing everywhere.

1184
00:46:08.202 --> 00:46:09.182
Looking good.

1185
00:46:09.182 --> 00:46:09.823
Some looking good,

1186
00:46:09.863 --> 00:46:10.263
some not.

1187
00:46:10.583 --> 00:46:11.644
Because some have products,

1188
00:46:11.664 --> 00:46:12.044
some not.

1189
00:46:12.044 --> 00:46:12.244
You know,

1190
00:46:13.285 --> 00:46:14.425
it's how do we test it?

1191
00:46:14.986 --> 00:46:18.428
But what we realized is that a lot of gardener products,

1192
00:46:18.568 --> 00:46:20.809
so homemade home plants,

1193
00:46:20.869 --> 00:46:21.269
basically,

1194
00:46:21.849 --> 00:46:22.710
you don't really have like...

1195
00:46:23.222 --> 00:46:26.385
impactful solution to apply on your crops.

1196
00:46:26.745 --> 00:46:31.189
So if you can have a product with this story behind it and apply it on your crops,

1197
00:46:31.629 --> 00:46:33.110
instead of applying chemicals,

1198
00:46:33.150 --> 00:46:33.611
fertilizer,

1199
00:46:33.631 --> 00:46:35.232
that's also kind of interesting,

1200
00:46:35.272 --> 00:46:35.492
I think.

1201
00:46:35.532 --> 00:46:35.692
Yeah,

1202
00:46:35.692 --> 00:46:35.953
definitely.

1203
00:46:36.713 --> 00:46:37.394
Is that available?

1204
00:46:37.674 --> 00:46:37.834
Yes,

1205
00:46:38.094 --> 00:46:40.496
it's available on the website.

1206
00:46:40.516 --> 00:46:42.638
So feel free to come to the K-Blue website and...

1207
00:46:43.299 --> 00:46:44.179
Yeah,

1208
00:46:44.179 --> 00:46:44.700
give that a try.

1209
00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:45.080
Yeah,

1210
00:46:45.100 --> 00:46:45.380
exactly.

1211
00:46:45.420 --> 00:46:50.725
Be part of the movements of the pioneers using these revolutionary new products.

1212
00:46:50.785 --> 00:46:51.645
That would be awesome,

1213
00:46:51.706 --> 00:46:52.066
yeah.

1214
00:46:52.546 --> 00:46:52.786
Great,

1215
00:46:52.846 --> 00:46:53.106
great.

1216
00:46:53.426 --> 00:46:53.546
Well,

1217
00:46:53.546 --> 00:46:55.147
I think we've covered most of the question.

1218
00:46:55.187 --> 00:46:55.407
I mean,

1219
00:46:55.387 --> 00:46:57.007
I'm sure there's plenty more we could discuss.

1220
00:46:57.308 --> 00:46:59.668
And since there's so much science going on right now,

1221
00:46:59.808 --> 00:47:02.129
maybe it would be super interesting to have another conversation,

1222
00:47:02.169 --> 00:47:05.990
maybe in one or two years time on the podcast and see how things have evolved.

1223
00:47:06.010 --> 00:47:06.390
But yeah,

1224
00:47:06.430 --> 00:47:10.052
I'm super excited about what you're doing at CalBlue.

1225
00:47:10.192 --> 00:47:12.772
Really happy that we had the opportunity to talk today.

1226
00:47:13.133 --> 00:47:14.533
So thanks a lot for that.

1227
00:47:14.613 --> 00:47:14.733
And,

1228
00:47:14.893 --> 00:47:15.133
you know,

1229
00:47:15.353 --> 00:47:15.773
all the best.

1230
00:47:16.033 --> 00:47:16.154
Yeah,

1231
00:47:16.214 --> 00:47:17.574
thanks a lot for your time.