WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.304 --> 00:00:02.006 Safer Chemicals Podcast. 2 00:00:02.726 --> 00:00:04.851 Sound science on harmful chemicals. 3 00:00:10.577 --> 00:00:12.616 Welcome to the Safer Chemicals Podcast. 4 00:00:13.179 --> 00:00:13.937 I'm Adam Elwan, 5 00:00:14.241 --> 00:00:16.843 and today I'm joined by Roberto Scazzola. 6 00:00:17.077 --> 00:00:18.983 He's the chair of our Committee for Risk Assessment, 7 00:00:19.390 --> 00:00:20.561 as well as Maria Ottati, 8 00:00:20.905 --> 00:00:23.280 who chairs our Socio-Economic Analysis Committee. 9 00:00:24.171 --> 00:00:24.311 Now, 10 00:00:24.468 --> 00:00:25.874 today we'll be going through key updates from the recent meetings of the committees, 11 00:00:28.342 --> 00:00:29.303 and to kick us off, 12 00:00:29.443 --> 00:00:33.006 we'll cover the latest on the universal PFAS restriction proposal. 13 00:00:34.006 --> 00:00:34.490 After that, 14 00:00:34.951 --> 00:00:42.498 we'll get an outlook on new tasks that are coming to both committees and how they will be expanding their evaluations to new areas of work. 15 00:00:43.514 --> 00:00:44.904 To wrap up today's episode, 16 00:00:45.186 --> 00:00:52.373 we'll talk to Roberto about a recent court ruling on the harmonised classification and labelling of titanium dioxide. 17 00:00:53.460 --> 00:00:53.861 Roberto, 18 00:00:53.981 --> 00:00:54.281 Maria, 19 00:00:54.401 --> 00:00:56.623 it's great to have you both on the podcast again. 20 00:00:56.803 --> 00:00:58.145 And for the first time, 21 00:00:58.223 --> 00:00:58.606 Roberto, 22 00:00:58.664 --> 00:01:01.824 you're actually joining us remotely from a much warmer climate, 23 00:01:01.871 --> 00:01:02.207 I hear. 24 00:01:02.270 --> 00:01:02.668 Not that I'm, 25 00:01:02.793 --> 00:01:03.028 you know, 26 00:01:03.168 --> 00:01:04.113 jealous or anything at all, 27 00:01:04.270 --> 00:01:05.434 but where are you joining from? 28 00:01:06.770 --> 00:01:07.457 Thank you very much, 29 00:01:07.512 --> 00:01:07.715 Adam, 30 00:01:07.778 --> 00:01:10.403 for inviting us and to our listeners for joining. 31 00:01:10.637 --> 00:01:10.996 Indeed, 32 00:01:11.043 --> 00:01:15.996 I managed to escape from the start of the autumn in Helsinki and I'm here in Venice, 33 00:01:16.184 --> 00:01:16.949 actually Italy. 34 00:01:17.590 --> 00:01:22.184 So I'll try to share some of the sun and the energy that I got from this nice trip. 35 00:01:22.371 --> 00:01:22.824 Please do. 36 00:01:23.016 --> 00:01:24.117 We need it desperately here. 37 00:01:24.118 --> 00:01:24.657 At least I do. 38 00:01:24.658 --> 00:01:25.236 I don't know about you, 39 00:01:25.257 --> 00:01:25.376 Maria. 40 00:01:25.396 --> 00:01:26.597 It's quite an overcast day. 41 00:01:26.716 --> 00:01:27.699 So definitely, 42 00:01:27.718 --> 00:01:29.117 I think that will be much needed. 43 00:01:29.218 --> 00:01:31.218 And thank you very much from my side as well, 44 00:01:31.257 --> 00:01:31.460 Adam. 45 00:01:31.499 --> 00:01:35.820 I'm really looking forward to telling you a little bit more about what we discussed in the plenary. 46 00:01:36.460 --> 00:01:36.757 All right, 47 00:01:36.758 --> 00:01:40.460 let's get started then with the universal PFAS restriction proposal. 48 00:01:40.523 --> 00:01:40.663 Now, 49 00:01:40.742 --> 00:01:40.960 here, 50 00:01:41.179 --> 00:01:43.976 the committees have been evaluating it for quite some time. 51 00:01:45.054 --> 00:01:46.648 And I know from Roberto's side, 52 00:01:46.679 --> 00:01:48.976 RAC is nearing completion of its risk-based evaluation. 53 00:01:49.007 --> 00:01:52.523 But there was a milestone recently with the submission of a background document. 54 00:01:53.493 --> 00:01:54.913 And I'd like to hear a bit more about that. 55 00:01:54.974 --> 00:01:55.736 So maybe Maria, 56 00:01:55.775 --> 00:01:56.915 you can shed some light on this one. 57 00:01:58.158 --> 00:01:58.357 Okay, 58 00:01:58.415 --> 00:01:59.318 so first of all, 59 00:01:59.357 --> 00:02:01.962 maybe I can tell you what we mean by a background document. 60 00:02:02.244 --> 00:02:03.322 So basically, 61 00:02:03.345 --> 00:02:06.829 the five countries submitted way back in January 2023, 62 00:02:06.830 --> 00:02:10.142 their proposal on the universal PFAS restriction. 63 00:02:10.829 --> 00:02:13.439 And as it enters the opinion making, 64 00:02:13.486 --> 00:02:17.814 then we start calling that proposal the background document as it gets updated. 65 00:02:17.829 --> 00:02:19.204 So what's been happening is that, 66 00:02:19.314 --> 00:02:19.751 as you know, 67 00:02:19.752 --> 00:02:22.220 we had a very big consultation on the proposal. 68 00:02:22.836 --> 00:02:26.700 And the five countries have been analyzing the comments that came in, 69 00:02:27.259 --> 00:02:31.841 and they have been progressively updating their proposal based on those comments. 70 00:02:31.888 --> 00:02:35.232 So we have been receiving staged updates, 71 00:02:35.286 --> 00:02:35.747 basically. 72 00:02:35.810 --> 00:02:39.060 So they have started sector by sector and use by use, 73 00:02:39.747 --> 00:02:40.654 sending us updates. 74 00:02:40.669 --> 00:02:48.482 So the opinions that we have been discussing all these past two years have been based on these graduated updates that we've received. 75 00:02:48.904 --> 00:02:50.950 But now they have finally finished it. 76 00:02:51.688 --> 00:02:52.989 And whereas those, 77 00:02:54.130 --> 00:02:54.411 you know, 78 00:02:54.571 --> 00:02:58.915 stage updates we were making available only to those participating to the meetings and, 79 00:02:58.916 --> 00:02:59.275 of course, 80 00:02:59.595 --> 00:03:00.259 to the committee, 81 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:02.157 now this has been published, 82 00:03:02.923 --> 00:03:03.157 you know, 83 00:03:03.220 --> 00:03:03.798 for everyone. 84 00:03:03.821 --> 00:03:06.079 So that's on our website now and that can be found. 85 00:03:06.845 --> 00:03:12.142 So in addition to adding more information about the sectors that they had already analysed, 86 00:03:12.143 --> 00:03:16.954 they have added some new sectors and they have also developed what we would call a new sector. 87 00:03:17.004 --> 00:03:18.325 could call horizontal issues, 88 00:03:18.345 --> 00:03:21.530 so areas that apply to all the different sectors. 89 00:03:21.569 --> 00:03:24.112 So that has been developed quite a lot more. 90 00:03:24.350 --> 00:03:26.116 And that's now in what you can find online. 91 00:03:26.514 --> 00:03:26.710 Okay, 92 00:03:26.756 --> 00:03:28.913 I know we'll talk about the horizontal issues later on as well. 93 00:03:28.914 --> 00:03:29.256 We will, 94 00:03:29.257 --> 00:03:31.499 because we looked at it in both of the committees. 95 00:03:31.655 --> 00:03:31.858 Yes. 96 00:03:31.881 --> 00:03:32.421 So basically, 97 00:03:32.422 --> 00:03:38.663 this background document is actually the backbone then of what you should be looking at and feeds into your opinion or the committee's opinion. 98 00:03:38.956 --> 00:03:39.156 Yes, 99 00:03:39.216 --> 00:03:39.677 exactly. 100 00:03:39.797 --> 00:03:41.279 But now it's stable and finalized. 101 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:42.400 So you don't expect any changes, 102 00:03:42.420 --> 00:03:43.980 which I assume is a good thing at this point. 103 00:03:43.981 --> 00:03:46.664 So you can go ahead without worrying about new information coming. 104 00:03:46.746 --> 00:03:47.105 Exactly. 105 00:03:47.121 --> 00:03:49.246 So this is basically what the committees are assessing. 106 00:03:49.324 --> 00:03:54.129 So that's very important that it's out there so that people when they see our opinions, 107 00:03:54.191 --> 00:03:55.519 which is coming, 108 00:03:56.097 --> 00:03:58.800 they will understand now what their opinions are. 109 00:03:59.019 --> 00:03:59.222 Yes. 110 00:03:59.269 --> 00:04:01.816 And the reasoning behind it as well on the basis for it. 111 00:04:01.832 --> 00:04:02.004 Okay, 112 00:04:02.035 --> 00:04:02.175 good. 113 00:04:02.548 --> 00:04:07.011 Let's then move on to the Risk Assessment Committee's discussion on these. 114 00:04:07.053 --> 00:04:07.175 So, 115 00:04:07.452 --> 00:04:07.835 Roberto, 116 00:04:07.893 --> 00:04:10.096 can you shed some light on different sectors? 117 00:04:11.393 --> 00:04:11.659 Sure. 118 00:04:11.940 --> 00:04:17.260 Perhaps we can start from the most complex and most interesting given sector. 119 00:04:17.300 --> 00:04:20.151 I would say electronics and semiconductors. 120 00:04:20.792 --> 00:04:23.776 PFASs are used in this sector due to their properties, 121 00:04:23.870 --> 00:04:25.354 their electrical properties, 122 00:04:25.432 --> 00:04:26.307 thermal stability, 123 00:04:26.385 --> 00:04:27.932 but also chemical resistance. 124 00:04:28.628 --> 00:04:34.313 It's probably the biggest sector in terms of received comments and also quite complex with many, 125 00:04:34.574 --> 00:04:35.977 many different applications. 126 00:04:36.477 --> 00:04:37.797 So when it goes to electronics, 127 00:04:37.977 --> 00:04:39.195 we refer to wires, 128 00:04:39.281 --> 00:04:39.820 cables, 129 00:04:40.477 --> 00:04:41.805 printed circuit boards, 130 00:04:42.078 --> 00:04:44.602 flat panel displays and so forward. 131 00:04:45.102 --> 00:04:53.305 And then we have also semiconductors that are very important due to the electrical conductivity between a conductor and an insulator. 132 00:04:53.852 --> 00:04:56.180 and this means uses within... 133 00:04:56.528 --> 00:04:57.070 o-rings, 134 00:04:57.170 --> 00:04:57.672 gaskets, 135 00:04:57.793 --> 00:04:59.096 wafers and coatings. 136 00:04:59.378 --> 00:05:02.065 And as usual Rack assess the volumes. 137 00:05:02.896 --> 00:05:04.458 PFAS that are used in those sectors, 138 00:05:04.597 --> 00:05:10.402 but also the expected emissions that are therefore uncontrolled and could reach the environment. 139 00:05:10.746 --> 00:05:12.464 So we look at the volumes, 140 00:05:12.504 --> 00:05:13.144 as mentioned, 141 00:05:13.222 --> 00:05:14.785 for both sub-uses, 142 00:05:14.847 --> 00:05:16.589 electronics and semiconductors. 143 00:05:17.308 --> 00:05:20.207 And we found also interesting figures. 144 00:05:21.129 --> 00:05:30.066 And electronics seems to be the sub-application that results in higher emissions in the order of 380 tons per year, 145 00:05:30.629 --> 00:05:31.457 while semiconductors... 146 00:05:31.880 --> 00:05:35.403 is in the order of 50 tons per year as a midpoint. 147 00:05:35.765 --> 00:05:39.866 We also expressed a view on the effectiveness of the restriction options, 148 00:05:40.366 --> 00:05:48.038 and we looked whether there are potential alternatives and what are the risks and the hazards possibly related to the use of those alternatives. 149 00:05:48.757 --> 00:05:48.976 Okay. 150 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:51.241 And I understood quite a lot of stakeholders. 151 00:05:51.413 --> 00:05:51.648 I mean, 152 00:05:51.898 --> 00:05:53.319 this topic has a lot of interest, 153 00:05:53.335 --> 00:05:53.976 but here as well, 154 00:05:54.023 --> 00:05:56.304 there was a high attendance rate from stakeholders, 155 00:05:56.366 --> 00:05:56.585 right? 156 00:05:58.429 --> 00:05:58.710 Indeed, 157 00:05:58.804 --> 00:05:59.054 Adam. 158 00:05:59.069 --> 00:06:00.335 I think you have a- 159 00:06:00.336 --> 00:06:00.905 a point here. 160 00:06:00.965 --> 00:06:02.367 We had a great attendance. 161 00:06:02.445 --> 00:06:04.988 Many stakeholders expressed an interest. 162 00:06:05.488 --> 00:06:06.308 And I have to admit, 163 00:06:06.590 --> 00:06:09.894 there was a constructive and very collaborative way of working. 164 00:06:09.895 --> 00:06:15.597 And we definitely appreciate it because the input of stakeholders is very important to make this right. 165 00:06:15.762 --> 00:06:17.058 All right. 166 00:06:17.105 --> 00:06:17.777 Great to hear that. 167 00:06:17.824 --> 00:06:18.058 Thanks. 168 00:06:18.137 --> 00:06:19.121 Thanks for the update on that. 169 00:06:19.246 --> 00:06:24.480 And good to see that stakeholders are contributing and coming up with useful information that you can make use of in your opinion forming. 170 00:06:25.496 --> 00:06:28.168 What about then the next bigger sector, 171 00:06:28.215 --> 00:06:28.652 I assume? 172 00:06:29.056 --> 00:06:30.377 PFAS manufacturing sector. 173 00:06:32.699 --> 00:06:33.019 Indeed, 174 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:36.824 that's a very important one and even a special one if you want, 175 00:06:36.863 --> 00:06:45.371 because actually it's the starting point of everything because you first manufacture PFAS and then they are provided and purchased for multiple uses. 176 00:06:45.871 --> 00:06:48.293 But we are also aware that in several, 177 00:06:48.294 --> 00:06:48.777 in some 178 00:06:49.215 --> 00:06:51.324 PFAS manufacturing sites across Europe, 179 00:06:51.699 --> 00:06:56.137 there have been serious pollution cases that affected soil, 180 00:06:56.340 --> 00:06:57.465 sediment and water. 181 00:06:58.116 --> 00:07:01.557 And we've also found that the remediation of those cases is very costly, 182 00:07:01.797 --> 00:07:02.536 and if possible, 183 00:07:02.555 --> 00:07:02.977 at all. 184 00:07:03.418 --> 00:07:08.399 And this also resulted in national measures and possibly ultimately to this restriction because a number of 185 00:07:08.875 --> 00:07:12.282 European countries found that we should act at European level. 186 00:07:13.297 --> 00:07:13.922 In this sector, 187 00:07:13.938 --> 00:07:15.657 we had the usual assessment in RAC, 188 00:07:16.157 --> 00:07:18.485 estimating the volumes and also the emissions. 189 00:07:18.938 --> 00:07:26.157 And maybe one element I would like to mention is we have also been informed that there is an industry-led initiative, 190 00:07:26.158 --> 00:07:27.125 a voluntary one. 191 00:07:27.424 --> 00:07:30.747 on actually reducing emissions and controlling them. 192 00:07:31.409 --> 00:07:39.940 And this has been taken forward by the dossiers submitters in a restriction proposal that would build actually, 193 00:07:40.456 --> 00:07:46.659 starting from this voluntary initiative and proposing also other measures that could really reduce emissions. 194 00:07:47.159 --> 00:07:48.690 We found this very interesting, 195 00:07:49.050 --> 00:07:51.221 and this is linked to an unlimited derogation, 196 00:07:51.675 --> 00:07:55.471 linked to a maximum emission limits to be respected both for... 197 00:07:55.856 --> 00:07:56.596 air emissions, 198 00:07:56.656 --> 00:07:58.437 but also for any wastewater, 199 00:07:58.536 --> 00:07:59.696 a production site. 200 00:08:00.017 --> 00:08:00.255 Okay, 201 00:08:00.599 --> 00:08:00.958 interesting. 202 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:02.896 On this unlimited derogation idea, 203 00:08:03.357 --> 00:08:03.982 what would then be, 204 00:08:04.396 --> 00:08:04.638 I mean, 205 00:08:04.958 --> 00:08:06.841 what would the emissions limits look like? 206 00:08:07.060 --> 00:08:09.419 And how would compliance actually be demonstrated? 207 00:08:11.216 --> 00:08:12.466 That's a very good question. 208 00:08:12.544 --> 00:08:14.372 And we had a preliminary discussion, 209 00:08:14.966 --> 00:08:15.747 this time at RAC, 210 00:08:16.122 --> 00:08:20.544 and we have actually requested the dossier submitter to provide additional elements. 211 00:08:20.841 --> 00:08:22.716 How can we demonstrate compliance? 212 00:08:22.825 --> 00:08:23.247 How can... 213 00:08:23.824 --> 00:08:28.270 economic operators being sure to fulfill those criteria if, 214 00:08:28.290 --> 00:08:28.770 of course, 215 00:08:28.911 --> 00:08:32.833 this restriction will be finalized in the way it has been presented today. 216 00:08:33.177 --> 00:08:38.020 So we actually plan to come back in December with additional elements, 217 00:08:38.075 --> 00:08:40.239 and we know that the dossier submitter is already, 218 00:08:40.708 --> 00:08:42.130 they are already working on that. 219 00:08:43.958 --> 00:08:47.489 Then let's go to these horizontal issues that we mentioned earlier. 220 00:08:47.552 --> 00:08:47.802 Can you, 221 00:08:48.552 --> 00:08:48.942 first of all, 222 00:08:48.943 --> 00:08:51.395 explain a little bit more about what they are exactly? 223 00:08:52.936 --> 00:08:54.978 They are cross-cutting issues. 224 00:08:55.439 --> 00:08:57.181 That means that they're not sector-specific, 225 00:08:57.201 --> 00:08:58.623 but they apply horizontally. 226 00:08:58.861 --> 00:09:01.744 So you can think of them like the backbone of the restriction. 227 00:09:02.502 --> 00:09:05.947 And they apply to the concentration limits, 228 00:09:05.986 --> 00:09:08.533 above which PFAS will be restricted, 229 00:09:08.595 --> 00:09:16.877 but also the hazard assessment and the general risk management measures that are needed to monitor and to reduce environmental emissions. 230 00:09:17.861 --> 00:09:19.345 We have already discussed this. 231 00:09:19.642 --> 00:09:20.002 However, 232 00:09:20.158 --> 00:09:21.502 few topics needed to be... 233 00:09:22.268 --> 00:09:24.571 fine-tune or I would say re-discussed. 234 00:09:24.710 --> 00:09:27.212 And that's what we have done actually last week. 235 00:09:28.474 --> 00:09:28.673 Okay. 236 00:09:28.674 --> 00:09:28.954 And Maria, 237 00:09:28.974 --> 00:09:31.919 I understand that also in the socio-economic analysis committee, 238 00:09:31.958 --> 00:09:34.302 you've looked at horizontal issues for the same sectors. 239 00:09:34.303 --> 00:09:35.458 So how does that play in? 240 00:09:35.544 --> 00:09:35.685 Yeah, 241 00:09:35.763 --> 00:09:35.942 well, 242 00:09:36.099 --> 00:09:36.239 in 243 00:09:36.903 --> 00:09:40.302 SEAC, we look at different horizontal issues or well, 244 00:09:40.364 --> 00:09:41.942 some of them we look at in both committees, 245 00:09:42.021 --> 00:09:44.958 but it's slightly different from the ones that Roberto has named. 246 00:09:44.974 --> 00:09:49.411 It's the same kinds of issues that apply across the board for all the sectors and all the uses. 247 00:09:50.160 --> 00:09:50.761 And we're talking, 248 00:09:51.182 --> 00:09:51.642 for instance, 249 00:09:51.662 --> 00:09:53.264 things about spare parts, 250 00:09:53.322 --> 00:09:54.002 recycling, 251 00:09:54.026 --> 00:09:55.666 that sort of thing that we haven't discussed yet, 252 00:09:55.686 --> 00:09:56.385 but that is coming. 253 00:09:56.846 --> 00:09:59.252 So this time we discuss practicality only. 254 00:09:59.971 --> 00:10:01.033 And in SEAC, 255 00:10:01.034 --> 00:10:05.033 we also have what we call more general approach issues, 256 00:10:05.112 --> 00:10:08.244 which we discuss in the same sort of slot in the committee. 257 00:10:08.713 --> 00:10:09.276 And this is, 258 00:10:09.401 --> 00:10:09.526 OK, 259 00:10:09.697 --> 00:10:11.526 what has been the approach used? 260 00:10:11.704 --> 00:10:14.926 to develop the dossier and what is the approach we use to assess that. 261 00:10:14.987 --> 00:10:22.036 So we have quite a lot of discussion on that because that helps to set out how we're going to do things before we actually do them. 262 00:10:22.075 --> 00:10:23.895 And that helps the discussions a lot. 263 00:10:24.575 --> 00:10:24.778 Okay. 264 00:10:24.895 --> 00:10:32.637 And what would you then say are the most important takeaways for our audience from this Risk Assessment Committee meeting regarding the proposed restriction? 265 00:10:34.279 --> 00:10:34.459 Well, 266 00:10:34.499 --> 00:10:34.940 first of all, 267 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:37.802 I think very good progress has been made. 268 00:10:37.883 --> 00:10:38.183 I mean, 269 00:10:38.424 --> 00:10:45.693 this is a very big exercise and there are a lot of colleagues that are actually involved into it and we are moving forward. 270 00:10:46.091 --> 00:10:52.404 So that's a big thank you to the committee members and to all stakeholders that participated constructively in this. 271 00:10:53.138 --> 00:10:53.420 And also, 272 00:10:53.435 --> 00:10:54.732 I think we are for the first time, 273 00:10:54.763 --> 00:10:55.920 as Maria explained earlier, 274 00:10:55.998 --> 00:10:59.560 with the submission of the final version of the background document, 275 00:10:59.561 --> 00:11:02.841 we have finally visibility when we can conclude this activity, 276 00:11:02.873 --> 00:11:03.763 at least for RAC. 277 00:11:04.327 --> 00:11:10.493 So we expect to conclude discussions on the 14 sectors and on PFAS manufacturing by end of this year. 278 00:11:11.196 --> 00:11:15.696 And then RAC should be in the condition to adopt the opinion in March 2026. 279 00:11:16.743 --> 00:11:17.938 That sounds indeed promising. 280 00:11:17.961 --> 00:11:22.383 I'm sure many of our listeners are also happy to hear that there's a timeline now available. 281 00:11:22.758 --> 00:11:29.227 Can you explain then the gap of the three months then by the end of the year and then March next year for the opinion? 282 00:11:30.852 --> 00:11:31.008 Well, 283 00:11:31.287 --> 00:11:32.028 Fingers crossed, 284 00:11:32.088 --> 00:11:34.090 we will conclude the discussion in December, 285 00:11:34.311 --> 00:11:44.621 but then we will still need some time to carefully draft the opinion text and to ensure that all horizontal issues are reflected in the same way in all the different applications. 286 00:11:44.660 --> 00:11:45.184 For instance, 287 00:11:45.262 --> 00:11:48.160 the risk of alternatives that we are doing as a committee. 288 00:11:48.707 --> 00:11:49.629 This takes time, 289 00:11:50.066 --> 00:11:51.394 as the proposal is very big, 290 00:11:51.410 --> 00:11:53.832 as already mentioned and commented multiple times. 291 00:11:54.410 --> 00:11:58.238 And we need to put together all the 14 sectors and the PFAS manufacturing. 292 00:11:58.351 --> 00:12:04.897 in a way that this will be coherent and homogeneous and could be then processed by the European Commission and member states. 293 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:07.702 So we want basically to have a scientific sound, 294 00:12:07.741 --> 00:12:09.163 but also a consistent opinion. 295 00:12:09.764 --> 00:12:10.600 And our goal now, 296 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:12.061 I think we can be outspoken, 297 00:12:12.147 --> 00:12:15.264 is to conclude at least in RAC by March 2026. 298 00:12:16.405 --> 00:12:17.374 So on to you then, 299 00:12:17.436 --> 00:12:17.749 Maria. 300 00:12:18.467 --> 00:12:18.592 The 301 00:12:18.999 --> 00:12:21.936 Socioeconomic Analysis Committee covered lubricants, 302 00:12:22.249 --> 00:12:22.655 energy, 303 00:12:23.092 --> 00:12:23.795 electronics, 304 00:12:23.999 --> 00:12:25.452 and semiconductors, 305 00:12:25.483 --> 00:12:26.139 as well as 306 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:28.061 PFAS manufacturing and... 307 00:12:28.311 --> 00:12:30.373 The horizontal issues that you mentioned earlier. 308 00:12:30.374 --> 00:12:32.533 So what were kind of the highlights from these? 309 00:12:33.295 --> 00:12:33.455 Well, 310 00:12:33.658 --> 00:12:34.416 first highlights, 311 00:12:34.498 --> 00:12:38.158 the sheer number of sectors that we were able to cover in one meeting. 312 00:12:38.197 --> 00:12:39.158 That was a challenge, 313 00:12:39.299 --> 00:12:43.666 but we were able to juggle all these different opinions that we had. 314 00:12:45.369 --> 00:12:47.853 These sectors have all been covered to differing levels. 315 00:12:47.885 --> 00:12:48.994 Let's say some we finished, 316 00:12:49.072 --> 00:12:50.135 some we started, 317 00:12:50.416 --> 00:12:51.510 some we continued. 318 00:12:51.619 --> 00:12:52.916 So it's all different. 319 00:12:52.978 --> 00:12:54.119 And so basically... 320 00:12:54.455 --> 00:12:55.316 horizontal issues. 321 00:12:55.356 --> 00:12:56.838 We continue then in December. 322 00:12:56.898 --> 00:12:59.539 This has been going on throughout the process. 323 00:12:59.602 --> 00:13:04.602 We periodically have brought this back to the committee to discuss what we have learned, 324 00:13:04.688 --> 00:13:06.203 what we should change and so on. 325 00:13:06.703 --> 00:13:08.070 So that is one that continues. 326 00:13:09.211 --> 00:13:11.438 Now PFAS manufacturing also continues. 327 00:13:11.469 --> 00:13:14.891 There we had what we call just a key issues discussion, 328 00:13:14.938 --> 00:13:15.312 let's say. 329 00:13:15.422 --> 00:13:18.766 So it was first describe what the dossier submitter has done, 330 00:13:18.844 --> 00:13:20.094 give some initial impressions, 331 00:13:20.156 --> 00:13:23.906 get some feedback from the committee as to what the rapporteurs proposed to do. 332 00:13:24.359 --> 00:13:26.759 but no real opinion yet and no discussion. 333 00:13:26.820 --> 00:13:29.099 That's coming in December and we expect to finish it then. 334 00:13:30.400 --> 00:13:31.962 With electronics and semiconductors, 335 00:13:32.040 --> 00:13:39.064 we focused just on semiconductors in this first meeting and we looked at the analysis of alternatives and also at the costs. 336 00:13:39.579 --> 00:13:43.525 But we still need to bring it all back together by looking at the benefits, 337 00:13:43.603 --> 00:13:47.087 then looking at the proportionality and derogations. 338 00:13:47.527 --> 00:13:49.689 And also to look at electronics as a whole. 339 00:13:49.709 --> 00:13:50.929 So that's quite a big sector. 340 00:13:50.990 --> 00:13:52.953 Roberto mentioned that it's one of the sectors, 341 00:13:53.312 --> 00:13:54.433 these two together, 342 00:13:54.472 --> 00:13:55.672 electronics and semiconductors, 343 00:13:55.734 --> 00:13:58.281 where we have received most comments. 344 00:13:58.437 --> 00:14:01.484 And it is quite a lot of sub-uses as well. 345 00:14:01.562 --> 00:14:03.062 So that's quite a lot of work. 346 00:14:03.125 --> 00:14:03.898 But again, 347 00:14:03.929 --> 00:14:05.742 we expect to finish in December. 348 00:14:06.633 --> 00:14:09.164 And then we have finished energy, 349 00:14:10.476 --> 00:14:10.929 which is good. 350 00:14:11.054 --> 00:14:11.929 Also quite, 351 00:14:12.086 --> 00:14:12.336 quite, 352 00:14:12.367 --> 00:14:13.086 quite big one. 353 00:14:13.503 --> 00:14:16.426 And they were talking about things like renewable energy generation, 354 00:14:16.506 --> 00:14:17.586 hydrogen technology, 355 00:14:17.668 --> 00:14:18.168 batteries. 356 00:14:18.207 --> 00:14:18.328 So, 357 00:14:18.649 --> 00:14:18.887 you know, 358 00:14:19.090 --> 00:14:19.250 big, 359 00:14:19.367 --> 00:14:21.250 chunky things to discuss. 360 00:14:21.813 --> 00:14:22.453 So that one, 361 00:14:22.492 --> 00:14:24.571 we had a key issues discussion, 362 00:14:24.594 --> 00:14:25.172 as I mentioned, 363 00:14:25.492 --> 00:14:26.492 for Vivas Manufacturing. 364 00:14:26.656 --> 00:14:27.656 This one we had in March. 365 00:14:27.797 --> 00:14:28.914 So now we have brought, 366 00:14:29.219 --> 00:14:29.477 you know, 367 00:14:29.492 --> 00:14:31.539 the actual opinion here. 368 00:14:31.555 --> 00:14:33.946 And that one has been provisionally concluded as well. 369 00:14:34.649 --> 00:14:35.321 And then finally, 370 00:14:35.383 --> 00:14:35.899 lubricants. 371 00:14:35.961 --> 00:14:36.461 Lubricants, 372 00:14:36.508 --> 00:14:39.602 we had discussed in the last plenary. 373 00:14:39.633 --> 00:14:41.852 We had discussed the analysis of alternatives, 374 00:14:41.914 --> 00:14:42.352 basically. 375 00:14:43.075 --> 00:14:45.837 And now we have done all the socioeconomic analysis, 376 00:14:45.838 --> 00:14:46.358 so cost, 377 00:14:46.419 --> 00:14:46.880 benefits, 378 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:47.759 proportionality, 379 00:14:47.841 --> 00:14:49.841 and looked at the need for derogations. 380 00:14:50.282 --> 00:14:54.306 And that's quite an interesting sector because it's a little bit different from the others. 381 00:14:54.345 --> 00:14:54.509 It's, 382 00:14:54.563 --> 00:14:54.727 well, 383 00:14:54.907 --> 00:14:56.587 it's not a sector for starters, 384 00:14:56.588 --> 00:14:57.329 it's more a use, 385 00:14:57.509 --> 00:14:59.477 and it's very transferential. 386 00:14:59.524 --> 00:15:00.868 So it covers, 387 00:15:01.477 --> 00:15:01.727 you know, 388 00:15:02.196 --> 00:15:03.056 it's used in many, 389 00:15:03.118 --> 00:15:05.790 many of the different sectors that we have already looked at. 390 00:15:05.884 --> 00:15:06.462 So it's, 391 00:15:06.837 --> 00:15:07.071 you know, 392 00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:09.759 a bit different in the approach that we have taken. 393 00:15:09.837 --> 00:15:11.306 We've looked at it a little bit more. 394 00:15:11.591 --> 00:15:12.332 across the board, 395 00:15:12.392 --> 00:15:12.732 let's say. 396 00:15:12.853 --> 00:15:14.333 So that one again, 397 00:15:14.593 --> 00:15:15.777 finished for, 398 00:15:15.937 --> 00:15:16.156 you know, 399 00:15:16.175 --> 00:15:20.339 provisionally concluded in this plenary and done for now. 400 00:15:21.941 --> 00:15:22.222 All right. 401 00:15:22.245 --> 00:15:25.902 So I saw that in all the sectors that you've covered, 402 00:15:25.988 --> 00:15:29.636 you also discussed this options other than the restrictions. 403 00:15:29.667 --> 00:15:31.464 So can you clarify to our audience, 404 00:15:31.870 --> 00:15:32.886 what exactly does that mean? 405 00:15:33.823 --> 00:15:33.963 Yeah, 406 00:15:34.083 --> 00:15:38.967 so basically one of the first things that we do when we start analysing a sector is to see, 407 00:15:39.189 --> 00:15:40.830 is a restriction actually needed here? 408 00:15:40.831 --> 00:15:44.596 Is a restriction the best way to deal with the risks that have been identified? 409 00:15:44.597 --> 00:15:44.752 Because, 410 00:15:44.753 --> 00:15:45.135 of course, 411 00:15:45.136 --> 00:15:46.752 there's a lot of regulation out there, 412 00:15:47.236 --> 00:15:52.517 a lot of regulation that even looks at environmental risks of some of the uses covered. 413 00:15:52.986 --> 00:15:58.392 And we need to consider whether is there stuff out there that already does what needs to be done. 414 00:15:58.830 --> 00:16:01.142 So there's many other different kinds of... 415 00:16:01.843 --> 00:16:02.083 you know, 416 00:16:02.143 --> 00:16:03.544 regulations and so on. 417 00:16:04.023 --> 00:16:07.383 So that's the first step always when we start looking at things, 418 00:16:07.465 --> 00:16:07.746 whether, 419 00:16:08.066 --> 00:16:08.344 you know, 420 00:16:08.683 --> 00:16:12.062 other voluntary initiatives already do what needs to be done, 421 00:16:12.125 --> 00:16:15.226 are there other directives or regulations. 422 00:16:15.625 --> 00:16:16.562 And so far, 423 00:16:16.586 --> 00:16:18.344 we have always found that that's not the case. 424 00:16:18.609 --> 00:16:18.781 Right. 425 00:16:18.782 --> 00:16:19.703 So restriction would be... 426 00:16:20.187 --> 00:16:24.531 A restriction under reach is the most appropriate risk management option that we have seen. 427 00:16:24.765 --> 00:16:24.953 Okay. 428 00:16:25.094 --> 00:16:25.984 Thanks for clarifying that. 429 00:16:27.271 --> 00:16:31.734 So how about the timelines then for you in terms of the next steps and opinions? 430 00:16:31.735 --> 00:16:33.418 Is it the same as for the Risk Assessment Committee? 431 00:16:34.160 --> 00:16:34.777 Very similar, 432 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:36.762 but with one major difference. 433 00:16:37.160 --> 00:16:39.082 So similarly to RAC, 434 00:16:39.121 --> 00:16:42.488 we expect to conclude all our sector discussions in December. 435 00:16:42.848 --> 00:16:43.230 But then, 436 00:16:43.402 --> 00:16:43.902 of course, 437 00:16:44.027 --> 00:16:46.574 there is quite a big job in putting everything together. 438 00:16:46.683 --> 00:16:48.105 Exactly what Roberto said, 439 00:16:48.152 --> 00:16:49.168 we'll have to do the same. 440 00:16:49.277 --> 00:16:51.340 We have learned quite a lot as we've gone through. 441 00:16:51.355 --> 00:16:56.402 So we really need to look at particularly some of the earlier sectors to make sure that everything is consistent there. 442 00:16:57.183 --> 00:16:57.824 And yeah, 443 00:16:57.864 --> 00:16:58.404 in March, 444 00:16:58.564 --> 00:17:01.606 we expect to agree the SEAC draft opinion. 445 00:17:01.688 --> 00:17:03.250 So you may notice, 446 00:17:03.251 --> 00:17:03.488 you know, 447 00:17:03.489 --> 00:17:06.254 the careful listeners may notice that I say, 448 00:17:06.395 --> 00:17:07.191 I don't say adopt, 449 00:17:07.215 --> 00:17:07.871 I say agree. 450 00:17:08.418 --> 00:17:10.012 And that is because after that, 451 00:17:10.535 --> 00:17:11.074 for SEAC, 452 00:17:11.113 --> 00:17:13.402 there is a whole new stage out there, 453 00:17:13.793 --> 00:17:16.621 which is a consultation on the SEAC draft opinion. 454 00:17:16.715 --> 00:17:20.559 So the SEAC draft opinion is published and then there is a 455 00:17:20.981 --> 00:17:24.449 60-day consultation that takes place on it. 456 00:17:24.606 --> 00:17:25.652 and then we consider 457 00:17:25.963 --> 00:17:26.864 all that information. 458 00:17:26.904 --> 00:17:30.789 And then the plan is that by the end of 2026, 459 00:17:31.347 --> 00:17:33.629 we will present to the committee an updated 460 00:17:34.074 --> 00:17:36.597 SEAC opinion for adoption in this case. 461 00:17:36.636 --> 00:17:38.113 So that's when we come to the end. 462 00:17:38.355 --> 00:17:38.574 Great. 463 00:17:38.793 --> 00:17:39.738 So actually a good thing, 464 00:17:39.801 --> 00:17:45.019 I would say that stakeholders will be able to have their say in the evaluation of this proposal. 465 00:17:45.566 --> 00:17:45.738 Now, 466 00:17:45.941 --> 00:17:47.363 given the interest on PFAS, 467 00:17:47.582 --> 00:17:50.660 I'd assume you expect a lot of information through this consultation. 468 00:17:50.691 --> 00:17:53.613 I know that was the case in previous consultations that we ran on this topic. 469 00:17:53.676 --> 00:17:54.910 Some records were broken there. 470 00:17:54.957 --> 00:17:55.066 So... 471 00:17:55.579 --> 00:17:56.659 Can you talk a bit more about that? 472 00:17:56.739 --> 00:17:57.820 What kind of things do you expect? 473 00:17:58.039 --> 00:17:58.560 Yeah, 474 00:17:58.619 --> 00:17:59.019 exactly. 475 00:17:59.080 --> 00:18:01.141 We expect quite a lot of contributions. 476 00:18:01.199 --> 00:18:08.445 We know that there has been quite a lot of work being done throughout this evaluation by stakeholders out there to gather more information. 477 00:18:08.945 --> 00:18:15.648 And we would be quite happy to receive that and to check whether that changes our conclusions in any way. 478 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:20.164 So it's important to note that the consultation now is on the SEAC draft opinion. 479 00:18:20.539 --> 00:18:21.945 It's not on the proposal as a whole, 480 00:18:21.961 --> 00:18:23.023 but on our opinion. 481 00:18:23.461 --> 00:18:23.586 So... 482 00:18:24.547 --> 00:18:31.175 What we're going to do is to be very careful about making sure that we are clear about what information is needed. 483 00:18:31.714 --> 00:18:32.292 And for that, 484 00:18:32.714 --> 00:18:36.456 we are organizing the consultation a little bit differently this time. 485 00:18:36.956 --> 00:18:40.308 So what we will be doing is using what we call a survey format. 486 00:18:40.386 --> 00:18:45.073 So we will be asking very concrete questions of the respondents, 487 00:18:46.026 --> 00:18:48.011 basically on the key things for SEAC, 488 00:18:48.026 --> 00:18:53.354 which are what is the impact of restricting the use of PFAS in the different sectors. 489 00:18:53.791 --> 00:18:57.315 And also on the availability and feasibility of alternatives. 490 00:18:57.434 --> 00:18:58.835 So those are the core. 491 00:18:58.897 --> 00:19:00.799 So when I'm talking about potential impacts, 492 00:19:00.800 --> 00:19:01.057 you know, 493 00:19:01.159 --> 00:19:01.581 costs, 494 00:19:01.698 --> 00:19:03.018 benefits and so on. 495 00:19:04.620 --> 00:19:05.885 So basically, 496 00:19:05.886 --> 00:19:06.323 as I said, 497 00:19:06.542 --> 00:19:07.104 a survey. 498 00:19:07.323 --> 00:19:11.292 And that means that no attachments can be submitted as part of the consultation. 499 00:19:11.354 --> 00:19:18.651 So what we're asking respondents to do is to take the information that they have and use it to be able to answer our questions. 500 00:19:19.057 --> 00:19:22.104 So the idea there is that we can help. 501 00:19:22.243 --> 00:19:28.726 the stakeholders to make sure that they give us the information that we actually need and that we don't have to fish for it, 502 00:19:28.804 --> 00:19:29.183 let's say, 503 00:19:29.503 --> 00:19:33.628 in quite a lot of information that some of which may not be as relevant. 504 00:19:35.167 --> 00:19:35.285 Yeah, 505 00:19:35.286 --> 00:19:37.964 and this will also help the committee organise, 506 00:19:38.324 --> 00:19:42.027 analyse and use the contributions very efficiently and effectively as well. 507 00:19:42.105 --> 00:19:46.995 So this helps us reach our final opinion by the end of 2026 as expected. 508 00:19:47.667 --> 00:19:47.887 And 509 00:19:48.408 --> 00:19:49.550 I would also like to mention, 510 00:19:49.570 --> 00:19:53.171 and this hopefully will be helpful to stakeholders, 511 00:19:53.632 --> 00:19:56.296 that we will organise an online info session on the 512 00:19:56.679 --> 00:19:59.359 30th of October 2025, 513 00:19:59.382 --> 00:20:03.804 where we will provide quite a lot of information on the questions that we'll be asking. 514 00:20:04.366 --> 00:20:07.085 And we will take questions as well, 515 00:20:07.101 --> 00:20:07.663 because obviously, 516 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:08.226 you know, 517 00:20:08.491 --> 00:20:09.741 new things may emerge. 518 00:20:10.757 --> 00:20:16.070 We will publish in advance some consultation guidelines and we will answer the questions that come in there. 519 00:20:16.607 --> 00:20:19.311 And maybe something important to mention that we will do, 520 00:20:19.971 --> 00:20:20.211 you know, 521 00:20:20.350 --> 00:20:21.291 by popular demand, 522 00:20:21.373 --> 00:20:21.752 let's say, 523 00:20:22.194 --> 00:20:23.994 is we'll be doing some sector mapping. 524 00:20:24.135 --> 00:20:24.819 So basically, 525 00:20:25.780 --> 00:20:30.623 questions that we've been getting a lot during the plenaries and outside of the plenaries are, 526 00:20:31.045 --> 00:20:32.811 where does my use fit in? 527 00:20:32.858 --> 00:20:34.061 In which sector is it? 528 00:20:34.170 --> 00:20:38.436 So we are doing our best to create a map of where everything fits in, 529 00:20:38.608 --> 00:20:41.514 which we understand that the stakeholders will find quite helpful. 530 00:20:41.530 --> 00:20:42.436 I'm sure that'll be useful, 531 00:20:42.437 --> 00:20:42.545 yes. 532 00:20:42.546 --> 00:20:43.280 That's what we've heard. 533 00:20:43.281 --> 00:20:43.389 Yeah. 534 00:20:43.863 --> 00:20:44.264 And of course, 535 00:20:44.265 --> 00:20:46.387 we won't be able to cover everything in the first go, 536 00:20:46.946 --> 00:20:48.707 but it'll be a living document. 537 00:20:48.727 --> 00:20:50.770 So as questions come in about different sectors, 538 00:20:50.809 --> 00:20:51.813 we'll keep asking them. 539 00:20:52.289 --> 00:20:55.516 So that way people will know when the consultation comes out, 540 00:20:55.656 --> 00:20:56.617 where should they answer, 541 00:20:56.680 --> 00:20:58.617 where should they provide the information as well. 542 00:20:58.696 --> 00:20:58.821 So, 543 00:20:59.492 --> 00:20:59.633 yeah, 544 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:00.774 please tune in 545 00:21:01.196 --> 00:21:02.555 30th of October this year. 546 00:21:03.102 --> 00:21:03.321 And, 547 00:21:03.930 --> 00:21:04.196 you know, 548 00:21:04.867 --> 00:21:08.664 the information will continue to be added to the guidance documents after that. 549 00:21:09.352 --> 00:21:09.592 Okay, 550 00:21:09.632 --> 00:21:09.853 thanks. 551 00:21:09.854 --> 00:21:11.194 So I think the info session, 552 00:21:11.454 --> 00:21:13.958 I really echo you there to invite people to join that. 553 00:21:13.977 --> 00:21:18.864 I think it would be a useful way to understand what exactly is needed during the consultation. 554 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:20.661 Then the consultation will follow in March, 555 00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:21.044 you said, 556 00:21:21.481 --> 00:21:22.622 this is after the committee meeting, 557 00:21:22.708 --> 00:21:22.887 right? 558 00:21:22.965 --> 00:21:23.208 Yes, 559 00:21:23.583 --> 00:21:23.989 exactly. 560 00:21:24.044 --> 00:21:27.614 So we will discuss in the March plenaries. 561 00:21:27.833 --> 00:21:31.989 And once the opinions are adopted in RAC and agreed in SEAC, 562 00:21:32.114 --> 00:21:32.614 then the 563 00:21:33.036 --> 00:21:38.223 SEAC opinion will be published and the consultation will start soon after the plenaries. 564 00:21:39.252 --> 00:21:39.492 Okay, 565 00:21:39.532 --> 00:21:39.653 well, 566 00:21:39.893 --> 00:21:40.694 that wraps up the 567 00:21:41.133 --> 00:21:42.135 PFAS segment. 568 00:21:42.276 --> 00:21:44.135 And as until now, 569 00:21:44.178 --> 00:21:47.221 we will be coming back to this throughout the committee's opinion making. 570 00:21:47.260 --> 00:21:50.385 The next obvious step there is after the December meetings. 571 00:21:50.706 --> 00:21:53.385 So we will still be back with updates this year for you on that. 572 00:21:53.448 --> 00:21:54.526 But next, 573 00:21:55.026 --> 00:21:59.065 let's briefly discuss kind of what's ahead for the committees outside of PFAS. 574 00:21:59.159 --> 00:22:01.549 There is also life outside of PFAS for the committees. 575 00:22:02.581 --> 00:22:04.549 And one big part of this is ECHA, 576 00:22:04.815 --> 00:22:05.315 our agency, 577 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:07.674 receiving new tasks under different regulations. 578 00:22:08.268 --> 00:22:08.378 So... 579 00:22:08.828 --> 00:22:09.949 due to these new tasks, 580 00:22:10.029 --> 00:22:14.553 both committees will begin reviewing new kinds of restriction and exemption proposals, 581 00:22:14.693 --> 00:22:17.435 which may lead to also new types of opinions. 582 00:22:17.498 --> 00:22:18.318 It's quite early days, 583 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:21.279 so we don't know yet fully how these will materialize. 584 00:22:21.943 --> 00:22:25.420 Can we go through which committee does what under each new task? 585 00:22:25.482 --> 00:22:27.967 And when do you expect the first kind of dossiers to land? 586 00:22:29.185 --> 00:22:29.435 Sure, 587 00:22:29.467 --> 00:22:30.545 maybe I can start. 588 00:22:30.576 --> 00:22:31.154 But first, 589 00:22:31.170 --> 00:22:35.295 I would like to express that I think we are pleased that new tasks are assigned, 590 00:22:35.296 --> 00:22:36.998 have been assigned to both committees. 591 00:22:37.029 --> 00:22:38.014 I think it's a major 592 00:22:38.500 --> 00:22:40.442 of the good work we have done so far. 593 00:22:40.862 --> 00:22:41.243 Of course, 594 00:22:41.262 --> 00:22:43.506 this brings challenges and well, 595 00:22:43.507 --> 00:22:44.987 you will hear from us in a second. 596 00:22:45.006 --> 00:22:46.167 So maybe indeed, 597 00:22:46.612 --> 00:22:47.831 in terms of new tasks, 598 00:22:47.846 --> 00:22:50.229 I can mention the packaging and packaging waste, 599 00:22:50.854 --> 00:22:59.315 where we will have to do sort of rich restrictions like for those in case the European Commission will ask us to carry out them. 600 00:22:59.909 --> 00:23:00.862 We have also toys, 601 00:23:00.987 --> 00:23:01.518 for instance, 602 00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:04.049 the toys regulation where we have to look into 603 00:23:04.800 --> 00:23:07.701 establish limit values for hazardous substances, 604 00:23:07.782 --> 00:23:11.981 but also to check any migration limits that would be applicable. 605 00:23:12.082 --> 00:23:13.305 So quite interesting. 606 00:23:13.922 --> 00:23:14.766 What about from your side, 607 00:23:14.782 --> 00:23:15.024 Maria? 608 00:23:15.125 --> 00:23:15.242 Yeah, 609 00:23:15.321 --> 00:23:16.422 quite a few as well. 610 00:23:17.141 --> 00:23:17.907 For instance, 611 00:23:18.125 --> 00:23:22.102 to add one that Roberto didn't mention is the restriction of hazardous substances. 612 00:23:22.899 --> 00:23:24.399 There we have potentially, 613 00:23:25.117 --> 00:23:25.352 you know, 614 00:23:25.508 --> 00:23:26.539 restrictions as well, 615 00:23:26.649 --> 00:23:27.586 restriction type work, 616 00:23:27.664 --> 00:23:32.961 but also SEAC will be looking at exemptions from that restriction as well and we expect quite a few 617 00:23:33.648 --> 00:23:34.669 different applications. 618 00:23:34.970 --> 00:23:35.911 And you were asking as well, 619 00:23:35.970 --> 00:23:39.232 when is the earliest time that we expect things? 620 00:23:39.575 --> 00:23:44.763 So probably for this one and for toys are the ones that we expect things to come soonest. 621 00:23:44.818 --> 00:23:46.779 So already 27. 622 00:23:47.263 --> 00:23:47.482 Okay. 623 00:23:49.044 --> 00:23:50.700 What about in the batteries regulation? 624 00:23:50.950 --> 00:23:53.904 ECA has had that task now for some time. 625 00:23:54.122 --> 00:23:56.263 I don't remember exactly when we got it over, 626 00:23:56.388 --> 00:23:57.950 but is there anything you can add from that? 627 00:23:58.044 --> 00:23:59.716 Are there new tasks coming also through there? 628 00:24:00.432 --> 00:24:00.613 Well, 629 00:24:00.813 --> 00:24:01.073 yes, 630 00:24:01.133 --> 00:24:05.095 there will be restrictions coming in to the committee. 631 00:24:05.896 --> 00:24:06.119 And, 632 00:24:06.580 --> 00:24:06.697 well, 633 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.619 this has been the entry into force was already in 2023. 634 00:24:09.658 --> 00:24:09.783 But, 635 00:24:09.799 --> 00:24:10.205 of course, 636 00:24:10.244 --> 00:24:14.049 there's work that needs to be done first before anything comes to the committee. 637 00:24:14.050 --> 00:24:14.744 For starters, 638 00:24:14.806 --> 00:24:17.916 there's a scoping study that is being done outside of the committees. 639 00:24:18.384 --> 00:24:21.588 But then the restrictions are expected to start coming. 640 00:24:22.134 --> 00:24:25.275 And the first one we expect may be 2029. 641 00:24:25.276 --> 00:24:26.791 That's quite a long runway. 642 00:24:27.532 --> 00:24:29.753 What's kind of driving this 2029 start? 643 00:24:30.532 --> 00:24:30.692 Well, 644 00:24:30.852 --> 00:24:31.972 usually with restrictions, 645 00:24:32.054 --> 00:24:33.452 we are assessing a proposal. 646 00:24:33.534 --> 00:24:39.257 So the proposal needs to first be done by outside of the committees for the committees to analyze. 647 00:24:39.272 --> 00:24:41.311 So first we have the scoping study. 648 00:24:41.499 --> 00:24:42.913 Then based on that, 649 00:24:42.952 --> 00:24:45.593 there will be potential restrictions being prepared. 650 00:24:45.608 --> 00:24:46.733 And then they come to the committee. 651 00:24:46.749 --> 00:24:46.983 Okay, 652 00:24:47.124 --> 00:24:47.421 thank you. 653 00:24:47.436 --> 00:24:48.155 That clarifies it. 654 00:24:49.514 --> 00:24:50.811 And how will the, 655 00:24:51.233 --> 00:24:51.374 well, 656 00:24:51.389 --> 00:24:53.780 actually both committees interface with the existing? 657 00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:55.000 ROS, 658 00:24:55.181 --> 00:24:56.222 let's call it with its acronym, 659 00:24:56.302 --> 00:24:57.182 exemption process. 660 00:24:57.222 --> 00:25:01.589 So will the committees handle both the restriction proposals and the exemption reviews? 661 00:25:01.866 --> 00:25:04.050 I think you mentioned actually already that you will also deal with the exemptions. 662 00:25:04.051 --> 00:25:04.167 Yeah, 663 00:25:04.168 --> 00:25:05.331 we will be doing both, 664 00:25:05.409 --> 00:25:05.909 exactly. 665 00:25:06.995 --> 00:25:07.175 In 666 00:25:08.073 --> 00:25:12.011 SEAC, we will be taking care of all the requests from exemptions from the industry. 667 00:25:12.198 --> 00:25:14.073 RAC will be a little bit more ad hoc, 668 00:25:14.198 --> 00:25:16.636 so we expect a proportion of them to go to RAC. 669 00:25:17.542 --> 00:25:18.104 These are already, 670 00:25:18.136 --> 00:25:18.542 of course, 671 00:25:18.589 --> 00:25:19.401 being looked at. 672 00:25:19.761 --> 00:25:20.964 There's a system out there, 673 00:25:21.104 --> 00:25:22.448 so that will be coming to... 674 00:25:22.856 --> 00:25:22.997 us. 675 00:25:23.057 --> 00:25:24.839 So the way things are being done now, 676 00:25:24.861 --> 00:25:27.406 I think with consultants looking at things, 677 00:25:27.925 --> 00:25:29.327 is coming to the committees. 678 00:25:29.347 --> 00:25:35.480 I think the idea is that they want something that has got the independence that the committees bring and, 679 00:25:35.941 --> 00:25:36.183 you know, 680 00:25:36.238 --> 00:25:37.542 rigorousness that the committees bring. 681 00:25:37.605 --> 00:25:37.784 Right. 682 00:25:38.003 --> 00:25:38.183 Okay. 683 00:25:38.770 --> 00:25:41.132 What about another acronym ELVs? 684 00:25:41.233 --> 00:25:42.913 So end of life vehicles. 685 00:25:43.374 --> 00:25:45.577 This was also something that was mentioned in the new tasks. 686 00:25:45.636 --> 00:25:46.679 Can you say anything about that? 687 00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:51.601 That's quite similar in terms of the type of tasks that we are discussing, 688 00:25:51.741 --> 00:25:52.507 scoping study, 689 00:25:52.702 --> 00:25:53.382 restrictions, 690 00:25:53.468 --> 00:25:56.226 and then review of existing exemptions. 691 00:25:56.694 --> 00:26:01.148 And similar also in that the exemptions are more to be done by SEAC than by RAC. 692 00:26:01.210 --> 00:26:01.851 All right. 693 00:26:01.898 --> 00:26:02.038 Well, 694 00:26:02.054 --> 00:26:02.273 I mean, 695 00:26:02.288 --> 00:26:03.069 a packed outlook. 696 00:26:03.648 --> 00:26:04.491 And as you said, 697 00:26:04.554 --> 00:26:04.819 you know, 698 00:26:05.274 --> 00:26:13.121 Clear kind of recognition of the work that the committees have been doing and a clear sign that the committee's remits are expanding across multiple pieces of legislation. 699 00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:16.867 I think the takeaway for our audience is that the timelines are staggered. 700 00:26:16.921 --> 00:26:18.187 We're at very early stages. 701 00:26:18.429 --> 00:26:19.828 Evidence needs are evolving. 702 00:26:20.711 --> 00:26:21.343 And early data, 703 00:26:21.390 --> 00:26:21.750 I guess, 704 00:26:21.812 --> 00:26:22.296 would matter. 705 00:26:22.468 --> 00:26:25.281 So as soon as we have some kind of structure and things in place, 706 00:26:25.312 --> 00:26:31.203 then getting your data prepared to carry these processes forward will be quite important also from the listener's sides. 707 00:26:31.578 --> 00:26:33.343 So we'll keep you posted on these ones. 708 00:26:33.814 --> 00:26:36.718 But then going into our final topic for today, 709 00:26:36.857 --> 00:26:38.640 so titanium dioxide. 710 00:26:38.780 --> 00:26:39.179 Roberto, 711 00:26:39.280 --> 00:26:41.401 could you update us on where we are? 712 00:26:41.523 --> 00:26:42.839 So just as a background, 713 00:26:42.886 --> 00:26:44.183 in 2017, 714 00:26:44.184 --> 00:26:47.909 the committee considered the substance to be a possible carcinogen, 715 00:26:48.066 --> 00:26:48.987 category 2, 716 00:26:49.206 --> 00:26:49.855 when inhaled. 717 00:26:50.245 --> 00:26:56.589 The European Commission added this classification then to the CLP regulation in 2019. 718 00:26:56.698 --> 00:26:57.151 However, 719 00:26:57.417 --> 00:27:01.042 the European Court of Justice has now overturned that classification. 720 00:27:01.105 --> 00:27:02.823 So from the committee's perspective, 721 00:27:03.094 --> 00:27:04.795 How do you see this development? 722 00:27:05.036 --> 00:27:05.856 What impact does it have? 723 00:27:07.239 --> 00:27:07.539 Yes, 724 00:27:07.579 --> 00:27:10.102 I think it's good to spend a couple of minutes on this point. 725 00:27:10.461 --> 00:27:15.082 We found that this case attracted quite some attention in the CLP community. 726 00:27:15.848 --> 00:27:19.965 We also acknowledge it concerns a very specific set of circumstances, 727 00:27:20.168 --> 00:27:27.278 and our taking of it does not alter overall BRAC's general approach to the scientific opinion-making. 728 00:27:28.366 --> 00:27:31.049 Could you spell out those specific circumstances that you mentioned? 729 00:27:31.069 --> 00:27:34.432 And do you see any kind of lessons learned for similar cases more broadly? 730 00:27:35.373 --> 00:27:35.533 Yeah, 731 00:27:35.572 --> 00:27:35.834 indeed. 732 00:27:35.835 --> 00:27:37.553 In our preliminary assessment, 733 00:27:37.654 --> 00:27:38.514 we had the impression, 734 00:27:38.639 --> 00:27:39.178 for instance, 735 00:27:39.194 --> 00:27:45.850 that RAC was not very clear in listing the key evidence that led to the classification conclusion. 736 00:27:45.897 --> 00:27:46.569 Apparently, 737 00:27:47.022 --> 00:27:47.444 the court, 738 00:27:47.522 --> 00:27:49.834 that's an element that has been criticizing the opinion. 739 00:27:50.412 --> 00:27:52.194 So we are carefully looking into it. 740 00:27:53.182 --> 00:27:54.243 probably restructuring, 741 00:27:54.302 --> 00:28:01.361 reformatting the information in a way that every time you use weight of evidence or you identify the key evidence, 742 00:28:01.564 --> 00:28:09.751 this is very clearly stated and drafted in a way that would lead actually to an easy-to-even assessment to no scientific, 743 00:28:10.126 --> 00:28:10.423 let's say, 744 00:28:10.626 --> 00:28:12.345 audience when it is the case. 745 00:28:13.705 --> 00:28:15.548 I think also from the practical point of view, 746 00:28:16.173 --> 00:28:17.486 as a result of the judgment, 747 00:28:18.230 --> 00:28:23.535 It means that the classification of titanium dioxide that was issued by the European Commission has been annulled. 748 00:28:24.136 --> 00:28:27.422 And this means that actually this is no longer bounding. 749 00:28:27.500 --> 00:28:29.781 And we're also updating our own RAC opinion, 750 00:28:29.859 --> 00:28:33.508 mentioning for full transparency also the outcome of this judgment. 751 00:28:34.164 --> 00:28:34.414 And 752 00:28:35.179 --> 00:28:38.351 I think we will come back maybe on this point once we will have a more, 753 00:28:39.273 --> 00:28:39.648 let's say, 754 00:28:39.804 --> 00:28:44.539 general overview on what we intend to do to be sure to address any potential follow-up. 755 00:28:45.320 --> 00:28:45.523 Okay. 756 00:28:45.754 --> 00:28:45.914 Good. 757 00:28:46.034 --> 00:28:46.355 Thank you. 758 00:28:46.356 --> 00:28:48.797 I think that wraps up the titanium dioxide point then. 759 00:28:49.498 --> 00:28:51.939 And actually also brings us to the end of our episode today. 760 00:28:52.021 --> 00:28:53.642 So we've covered quite a lot of ground, 761 00:28:53.763 --> 00:28:56.982 obviously PFAS taking up the bulk of our episode as it usually does, 762 00:28:57.802 --> 00:28:58.490 where both committees, 763 00:28:58.491 --> 00:28:59.209 as mentioned before, 764 00:28:59.287 --> 00:29:01.185 are moving toward year end conclusions. 765 00:29:02.216 --> 00:29:05.216 We also have a packed pipeline of new tasks across packaging, 766 00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:05.591 toys, 767 00:29:05.670 --> 00:29:06.248 batteries, 768 00:29:06.795 --> 00:29:12.779 ROS and end of life vehicles that will involve new areas of work over the next few years. 769 00:29:13.038 --> 00:29:17.117 And then we also got the update on the latest on titanium dioxide, 770 00:29:17.277 --> 00:29:19.840 including what the court's recent ruling had in it. 771 00:29:20.340 --> 00:29:20.500 Now, 772 00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:21.559 before we close, 773 00:29:21.723 --> 00:29:23.363 something that we would like to try, 774 00:29:23.520 --> 00:29:25.184 something a little bit different in the format, 775 00:29:25.684 --> 00:29:27.145 is to engage a bit more with you, 776 00:29:27.223 --> 00:29:27.879 our listeners, 777 00:29:28.004 --> 00:29:29.949 and to collect questions for our episodes, 778 00:29:29.981 --> 00:29:33.090 particularly for this committee podcast series that we do. 779 00:29:33.309 --> 00:29:39.059 So if you have any questions or topics that you would like Roberto and Maria to unpack in our next episodes, 780 00:29:39.418 --> 00:29:40.918 you can send them to us by email. 781 00:29:41.566 --> 00:29:44.887 The address is video at eka.europa.eu. 782 00:29:45.006 --> 00:29:46.768 You'll also find that in the episode description. 783 00:29:47.229 --> 00:29:49.049 And we will then pick topics, 784 00:29:49.167 --> 00:29:55.229 questions that fit into the overall scope of our episodes and try to address them in our next episode. 785 00:29:55.230 --> 00:29:58.026 So you can already start submitting those now for the December episode. 786 00:29:58.417 --> 00:29:59.010 But for today, 787 00:29:59.354 --> 00:30:00.854 thank you for listening and goodbye. 788 00:30:05.229 --> 00:30:06.932 Safer Chemicals Podcast. 789 00:30:07.651 --> 00:30:09.776 Sound science on harmful chemicals.