WEBVTT

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Welcome back to the Deep Seat Podcast.

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Today

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I decided to revisit a conversation I had with Alfonso Chico de Guzman from

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La Junquera in Spain.

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We've been hearing so much about the water problems in Spain in recent years and even more so in the last few weeks with the recent events in

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Valencia.

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And for that reason,

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I thought it would be a good idea to revisit this conversation with Alfonso,

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because he is located in a very difficult area where he's facing very,

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very long dry periods,

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followed by very heavy rains.

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And he's been trying to tackle that issue head on for the last

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10 years using regenerative methods,

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regenerative hydrology.

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So redesigning the landscape in a way that holds back the water,

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slows it down and helps it seep into the ground and recharge the water systems.

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So let's get into this conversation.

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Thank you so much for listening,

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for being here,

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for caring about regenerating our planet.

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As per usual,

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this episode was made in partnership with Soil Capital.

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I am your host Raphael and this is the Deep Seed Podcast.

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Your farm,

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La Jonquera,

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has been in your family for many generations,

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spanning 200 years.

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And over the decades and even centuries,

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it has been through a lot of transformations,

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following the evolution of society,

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I guess.

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And noticeably...

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it went from a more traditional mode of farming to what we call conventional farming.

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And back in 2011,

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it became organic.

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And then more recently,

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since you took over,

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it became a regenerative farm.

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I would love it if you could talk us through the evolution of the farm,

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and in particular,

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the transition between conventional and regenerative.

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Yeah,

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I think it has been going also a bit with

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in a way,

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of what society was asking for.

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So basically until the 1960s,

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it worked as a medieval place,

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in a medieval management.

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In a way,

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there were more than 100 people living in the farm,

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working the land with horses,

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with mules,

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and basically doing a type of farming of subsistence,

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growing some grains and vegetables on the irrigated part.

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And it was given also the landowner.

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a percentage of that harvest.

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It was...

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And then the landowner,

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depending on my grandfather or great-grandfather at the time or whoever was in charge then,

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the main business though was not that,

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but it was the esparto that they would manage directly.

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And that is kind of how farms and things would work at the time.

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But then in the late

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50s, 60s machinery started to arrive and there was

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a growing population,

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a growing demand of more and more food.

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And you were a superhero if you were a farmer that were producing a lot of food,

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a lot of calories for society.

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And that is when the green revolution,

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they call it green,

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it was not so green,

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with all the chemicals coming in to produce as much as possible.

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And that is when you were doing a really good job.

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So they moved into that and they were very proud that with the first tractors that arrived in the area,

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And with all of these inputs,

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they were indeed producing very big amounts of food.

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Then it changed to,

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well,

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first of all,

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the lands started to get degraded a lot.

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A lot of the structures that were in the land were moved.

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For example,

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a lot of terraces were moved.

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A lot of parts of natural areas were cleared out to make into farming when tractors arrived.

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Because,

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yeah,

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parts that were too steep or too stony to farm with mules,

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then they were okay to do with tractors.

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yeah that was uh i think a mistake because the first years they did give a harvest but after that yeah all the organic matter was washed down all the good soil was yeah was moved away by erosion and then uh yeah the a

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lot of things the tractors started at some places like even tilling downhill because it was more convenient stuff like that i think it happened all over all over the area or maybe even the world and uh

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Yeah,

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you can see how that was a big,

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big change that damaged the farm.

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What's the problem with tilling downhill?

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Well,

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the problem with tilling downhill is that you're kind of creating very nice channels or canals for the water when it comes in hard.

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it happens in our area,

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to move as fast as possible and then move with it all of the fine particles,

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organic matter and nice soil that we have.

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It helps the water slide down the hill rather than if it was tilled horizontally,

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it would create some horizontal channel where the water can actually be stopped and seep in the ground.

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Yeah,

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so for example there are some big plots,

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well there are some small plots with terraces let's say,

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and then those terraces were taken out

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and the plot would be bigger and instead of tilling the way of the terraces which is horizontal it would be tilling downhill so you can imagine the disaster that happened in a few years in a few decades even in some parts then you i could see when i arrived the bedrock and

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then when i asked the older people that that knew that farm more years ago they said yeah actually in here i asked for example why don't we have a terrace and said yeah

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But that's kind of going backwards because here there used to be terraces.

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Well,

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that makes a lot of sense.

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There used to be terraces and now there was bedrock.

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And there is a plot that we actually,

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we started making one swale and then we make three or four more.

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I think we have five swales that are these trenches that follow the contour lines.

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So kind of to make sure you're always horizontal.

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And then when you go over with a tractor on the field,

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you have to go parallel to those lines.

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So,

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yeah,

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bye.

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By that I think that plot when it had terraces the erosion was not too bad even though the plot is quite steep.

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I think it's a bit over 10% steepness.

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It's not crazy but with these conditions it is bad if you till downhill.

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And now with all these swales and a few ponds that we made I think the erosion is almost gone.

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This seems like a great example of something that can be implemented fairly easily but that has a big

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positive impact.

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Because if I understand correctly,

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you didn't need to change your system.

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You're still using the same machinery,

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you're still growing the same crops.

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But the change you made is that you dug swales in a few places in the landscape,

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horizontal to the slope,

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and that you're using the machinery following those lines now.

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And that change alone is really making a big difference.

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Yeah,

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I think a lot of this

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Things have more to do with the mindset than with the machinery.

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I think,

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yeah,

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it's more a change of mind than a change of tools.

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I think you can use the same tools like everything else to degrade or to do harm or to build or to do something better.

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And well,

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actually for these trenches,

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we need we did need to buy one tool that is called a polydozer,

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but

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but it's not an expensive tool either.

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And then with that,

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because we could do it with an excavator,

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but that would take much longer time and be a lot more expensive.

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And with a polydoser was very much cheaper and faster to make these swales,

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all of these trenches.

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So we started building,

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we rented out one and we built that swale,

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then we built another,

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and then we tried different sizes and different shapes and different,

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with totally flat or a little bit of a steepness.

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And after...

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few times of trial and error then we we expanded on making many more and now yeah i haven't counted how many we have but i think we have at least 20 kilometers of these trenches over the farm do you see a lot of farmers in spain or in your area using

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similar methods i think we made the first ones in spain eight or nine years ago but after that more people made some because

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We actually,

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some people borrowed our polydoser to make them and also other people,

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yeah,

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they hired their own machine and made them.

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I don't know how many but at least I know a few farms that I've seen and I visited that they made these swales.

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Could you give us a few examples of regenerative practices that you've implemented on your farm and that turned out to be success?

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Yeah.

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I could also give you many more of things that didn't work.

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That was my next question.

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Let's start with the positives.

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Yeah,

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I'll start with the positives.

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First of all,

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the swales that work really well.

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So that is something

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I was quite surprised that it worked as expected or even better.

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It reduces erosion a lot or almost completely.

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And it is not that expensive to do.

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So that is one.

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Another one is

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leaving the straw of the grains on the ground when you harvest instead of harvesting it to make hay bales or straw bales

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That works really well.

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We've seen in the soil analysis in some plots that we've been doing,

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reducing tillage,

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adding organic matter and leaving this straw that,

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yeah,

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the organic matter is important to also add the nitrogen so this straw can decompose and then get into the ground.

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And we've seen in some places where the organic matter content in six years of these practices have doubled.

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Double doesn't mean going from 6 to 12.

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In our case,

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double means going from,

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actually in that plot,

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from 0.7 to 1.7.

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And from 1 to...

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some parts were 0.7,

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some parts were 1,

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and now a lot of the plot is 1.7% of organic matter,

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which we're very proud of.

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That's considerable in just six years.

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You must be doing something right.

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Yeah,

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so that is...

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and we have the control plots of the...

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a neighbor that is doing conventional they're yeah basically the same plots just divided by a road and we did a project with a university checking not just the organic matter content but also the microbiology and yeah fertility

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in general and also we have some pictures of after a rain event how in our plot a lot of things grew were growing and you would see some green stuff and the other one was bearing still so that is

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That has been really nice to see also how some of these things that we felt with our senses,

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yes this is working but now scientifically with all these tests and all of this help of researchers and universities and students,

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now we have the data that it also shows that is that is working.

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Besides those techniques,

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well ponds as well,

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we've been making from really small ponds to quite big,

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more than a hundred of them.

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And they work really well.

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Also they work very differently each one,

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but they all have a really good impact.

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What's the idea behind ponds?

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Slow down water,

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infiltrate water,

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create biodiversity hotspots.

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Some of them only have water for a few days or weeks after it rains,

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but that's enough for a lot of these Mediterranean plants and animals to use it.

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and a lot of species of tots for example tots or toads i don't know how you call it frogs too yeah similar to frogs they only need water for a few weeks to get the eggs and get the tots out so you don't need them to be full of water all year round and in the summer some

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of them have water in the summer and then you see a spectacular yeah like an oasis in the middle of the desert you see a lot of life going on there um but yeah all of them serve a purpose all of them yeah do

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either improve biodiversity a lot or improve infiltration,

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reduce erosion or generally all of the above.

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And how do you choose where you start a pond?

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Everywhere.

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They try to make as many as possible everywhere but places that they are not too inconvenient for machinery to go through and if you see that it has the shape that you could make a little or a bigger dam there that could hold water and

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yeah reduce the the speed of the flow when it rains uh hard then i make it i don't really check if uh the ground has this or that type of uh if it will hold water very well or not because i think it doesn't really matter i guess you're on your farm every day you can feel kind of where where it works and where it would fit yeah

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the operation and um a really good advice that i i don't know if i saw it in a video or uh or i read it somewhere is when it rains

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It is very typical in our area to go in the house and make migas.

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Migas is a type of food with a gigantic pan.

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You make it with flour and oil and it's very tasty.

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So when it rains,

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everyone goes into their houses and make migas.

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And then a person,

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a farmer that I read somewhere said,

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actually,

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when it rains,

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get out,

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go in your car or walk in or horse or whatever.

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And yeah,

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and that is the moment when you can see where the water flows.

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I started doing that sometimes in the car,

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sometimes with the two buddies on a horse,

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which is also a lot of fun.

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00:14:14.541 --> 00:14:18.923
And last year we could also do it with a drone and that was even nicer.

247
00:14:19.143 --> 00:14:22.164
So we could see not only with your eyes,

248
00:14:22.184 --> 00:14:23.805
but also with the camera of the drone,

249
00:14:23.845 --> 00:14:31.948
a lot of things that we didn't realize until we could see it with that view where the water is going and where you can hold it.

250
00:14:32.648 --> 00:14:33.288
So technology,

251
00:14:33.569 --> 00:14:36.870
is that something that you use a lot and that you find helpful in your

252
00:14:37.150 --> 00:14:38.111
regenerative transition?

253
00:14:40.094 --> 00:14:40.214
Yeah,

254
00:14:40.254 --> 00:14:41.997
technology is definitely helping a lot.

255
00:14:43.659 --> 00:14:47.464
We use as much as we can and it is definitely useful.

256
00:14:48.445 --> 00:14:49.245
like everything else,

257
00:14:49.305 --> 00:14:49.726
it's a tool.

258
00:14:50.046 --> 00:14:53.227
You can use it for regenerate or to degenerate.

259
00:14:53.867 --> 00:14:58.089
And we do have modern tractors with GPS.

260
00:14:58.530 --> 00:14:59.350
We have also,

261
00:15:01.291 --> 00:15:03.332
a few weeks ago or even a month ago,

262
00:15:04.052 --> 00:15:09.234
we bought these no fence collars for the cows and it's a virtual fencing system.

263
00:15:10.095 --> 00:15:11.195
It's amazing.

264
00:15:11.435 --> 00:15:12.696
It saves so much time.

265
00:15:12.736 --> 00:15:14.717
It helps so much to be able to use.

266
00:15:15.421 --> 00:15:19.203
to graze parts that otherwise would be too difficult to fence with an electric fence.

267
00:15:19.703 --> 00:15:21.504
And that is an amazing technology.

268
00:15:21.544 --> 00:15:23.364
I imagine that it will grow a lot.

269
00:15:23.404 --> 00:15:24.085
I have to be honest,

270
00:15:24.125 --> 00:15:26.426
I had never heard about this technology yet.

271
00:15:26.426 --> 00:15:30.447
So I'm really keen for you to explain even just in simple terms how it works.

272
00:15:30.888 --> 00:15:33.509
So it is a collar you put on the cow.

273
00:15:33.709 --> 00:15:37.690
So before they had this beautiful leather collars with a bell.

274
00:15:38.331 --> 00:15:38.551
Now,

275
00:15:38.711 --> 00:15:39.291
unfortunately,

276
00:15:39.351 --> 00:15:41.652
we had to take those off even though they were very beautiful,

277
00:15:41.712 --> 00:15:43.613
but you cannot have both now.

278
00:15:44.113 --> 00:15:46.956
And then you put these colors that they have a solar panel,

279
00:15:47.076 --> 00:15:47.736
they have a battery,

280
00:15:48.297 --> 00:15:50.839
they're connected with phone signal and GPS.

281
00:15:51.539 --> 00:15:53.501
And then with your phone,

282
00:15:54.142 --> 00:15:56.023
you bring the cows to a plot.

283
00:15:56.484 --> 00:15:56.604
You,

284
00:15:57.585 --> 00:15:59.006
from the screen of your phone,

285
00:15:59.586 --> 00:16:03.930
mark the limits of that plot where you don't want the cows to move.

286
00:16:04.751 --> 00:16:04.891
Well,

287
00:16:04.931 --> 00:16:05.131
like,

288
00:16:05.571 --> 00:16:05.691
yeah,

289
00:16:06.212 --> 00:16:07.073
you put the borders.

290
00:16:07.773 --> 00:16:09.435
And then the cows,

291
00:16:09.795 --> 00:16:11.096
if they get near the border,

292
00:16:11.256 --> 00:16:12.077
they get a sound.

293
00:16:12.729 --> 00:16:13.750
like kind of a music.

294
00:16:14.010 --> 00:16:14.411
It's like,

295
00:16:15.672 --> 00:16:16.192
something like that.

296
00:16:16.733 --> 00:16:19.255
And then if they pass the border,

297
00:16:20.095 --> 00:16:21.837
I think it sounds like one or two times.

298
00:16:21.937 --> 00:16:22.637
And then after that,

299
00:16:22.798 --> 00:16:24.799
it gives an electric pulse.

300
00:16:25.420 --> 00:16:25.780
It is,

301
00:16:26.501 --> 00:16:26.621
well,

302
00:16:26.661 --> 00:16:27.121
I don't know how,

303
00:16:27.842 --> 00:16:29.043
I haven't tried it on myself,

304
00:16:29.883 --> 00:16:33.206
but it's quite effective for the cows.

305
00:16:33.627 --> 00:16:36.249
And it takes them a few days to understand the system.

306
00:16:36.949 --> 00:16:40.052
You do it with a real fence the first day so they understand,

307
00:16:40.312 --> 00:16:40.472
okay,

308
00:16:40.552 --> 00:16:41.173
what is going on.

309
00:16:41.805 --> 00:16:43.086
And I also could see,

310
00:16:43.346 --> 00:16:44.727
because you can monitor it on your phone,

311
00:16:44.867 --> 00:16:45.668
every single cow,

312
00:16:45.768 --> 00:16:46.369
what is going on,

313
00:16:46.429 --> 00:16:47.750
how many times it got the sound,

314
00:16:47.770 --> 00:16:50.151
how many times it got the pulse and all of that.

315
00:16:50.492 --> 00:16:52.753
The first week they got the sound all the time.

316
00:16:52.773 --> 00:16:53.494
They got the pulse,

317
00:16:54.014 --> 00:16:54.415
I think,

318
00:16:54.775 --> 00:16:54.915
yeah,

319
00:16:55.235 --> 00:16:56.396
some a few times a day,

320
00:16:56.556 --> 00:16:58.178
some every other day.

321
00:16:58.618 --> 00:16:59.338
And after that,

322
00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:04.242
I think we haven't got a cow getting the pulse in weeks.

323
00:17:05.043 --> 00:17:05.783
Now they understand.

324
00:17:05.863 --> 00:17:06.004
Now,

325
00:17:06.044 --> 00:17:07.124
as soon as they hear the sound,

326
00:17:07.124 --> 00:17:07.665
they understand.

327
00:17:08.105 --> 00:17:11.627
And they kind of understand how the imaginary line goes.

328
00:17:11.647 --> 00:17:13.908
So even the sound doesn't,

329
00:17:14.268 --> 00:17:15.808
they don't hear it that much.

330
00:17:16.108 --> 00:17:17.429
So it is really,

331
00:17:17.489 --> 00:17:17.809
really good,

332
00:17:17.929 --> 00:17:19.530
especially in a dry year like this.

333
00:17:20.290 --> 00:17:34.976
There's many places that we would need weeks to fence with an electric fence or even farms of other people that is quite complicated to ask them to then go and fence it with this electric fence and take maybe a month.

334
00:17:35.617 --> 00:17:36.017
When then.

335
00:17:36.609 --> 00:17:39.170
the cows are only going to be able to graze there for a week.

336
00:17:39.370 --> 00:17:40.170
So you cannot do it.

337
00:17:40.870 --> 00:17:42.771
It's economically not viable at all.

338
00:17:43.171 --> 00:17:43.931
Now with the colors,

339
00:17:45.351 --> 00:17:49.913
there's no place too small or too far or too whatever to be able to go and graze it.

340
00:17:50.633 --> 00:17:55.394
You mentioned earlier in the conversation that a lot of students are coming to your farm to study what you're doing,

341
00:17:55.454 --> 00:17:57.655
but also to experiment with different things.

342
00:17:58.355 --> 00:18:06.157
Do you have any examples of something that was tried out by students and turned out to work so well that you actually applied it to your farming system?

343
00:18:06.937 --> 00:18:07.057
Yeah,

344
00:18:07.157 --> 00:18:07.297
yeah.

345
00:18:07.837 --> 00:18:08.518
So for example,

346
00:18:08.698 --> 00:18:16.760
one is these vegetation strips that we leave in the middle of the line of trees that are about one and a half to two meters wide.

347
00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:18.620
At the beginning,

348
00:18:19.181 --> 00:18:29.944
the change was from the conventional tilling eight times a year between trees to moving to three times a year and only summer and winter,

349
00:18:30.364 --> 00:18:31.224
summer and spring,

350
00:18:31.284 --> 00:18:31.524
sorry.

351
00:18:32.184 --> 00:18:34.005
And then with a student.

352
00:18:34.245 --> 00:18:51.870
of the academy we started trying with these vegetation strips in the middle that are never touched so those are never tilled and and then yeah we saw it work really well so we expanded it to every plot we had so strip so you have rows of trees that you're planting like

353
00:18:52.410 --> 00:19:03.653
trees almond trees for example or pistachio trees they are seven meters apart yeah the street and then in those seven meters in the middle you would leave a strip of about two meters wide

354
00:19:03.853 --> 00:19:04.974
that is never touched,

355
00:19:04.974 --> 00:19:05.514
never tilled.

356
00:19:05.955 --> 00:19:07.176
And that is really good for erosion,

357
00:19:07.216 --> 00:19:07.876
biodiversity,

358
00:19:08.417 --> 00:19:09.138
holding soil,

359
00:19:09.238 --> 00:19:09.998
creating soil.

360
00:19:10.399 --> 00:19:11.860
And you're doing that every what,

361
00:19:12.060 --> 00:19:12.640
other strip?

362
00:19:12.941 --> 00:19:13.441
Every strip.

363
00:19:13.701 --> 00:19:14.462
Every single strip?

364
00:19:15.383 --> 00:19:15.503
Yeah.

365
00:19:15.643 --> 00:19:15.963
So we,

366
00:19:16.424 --> 00:19:18.045
the experiments were like that first.

367
00:19:18.285 --> 00:19:18.646
Let's see,

368
00:19:19.206 --> 00:19:20.027
half a meter wide,

369
00:19:20.347 --> 00:19:21.268
five meters wide.

370
00:19:21.988 --> 00:19:23.950
Some lines were all of the line,

371
00:19:24.370 --> 00:19:25.912
like no till all of the line.

372
00:19:26.472 --> 00:19:31.937
And then others are just everything tilled and depending on the time of the year.

373
00:19:32.621 --> 00:19:33.543
And we saw,

374
00:19:33.923 --> 00:19:34.084
yeah,

375
00:19:34.364 --> 00:19:41.856
that now it's working really well to have these two meters wide in every line in all of the farm.

376
00:19:41.956 --> 00:19:44.721
And now actually the new common agriculture policy.

377
00:19:45.602 --> 00:19:49.083
They encouraged and they included it that if you do that,

378
00:19:49.303 --> 00:19:53.464
they give you a bit more money in the subsidies of the common agriculture policy.

379
00:19:54.164 --> 00:19:59.206
So that's a win-win for your operation and you get extra for doing it.

380
00:19:59.326 --> 00:20:00.586
Yeah.

381
00:20:00.586 --> 00:20:00.766
Right.

382
00:20:00.826 --> 00:20:04.007
Maybe giving some ideas to other farmers listening to this podcast.

383
00:20:04.867 --> 00:20:04.987
Yeah.

384
00:20:05.107 --> 00:20:13.590
But it's great to see that practices that bring back biodiversity and resilience to farms are being supported by governments on the local,

385
00:20:13.710 --> 00:20:15.090
national or European level.

386
00:20:15.290 --> 00:20:19.874
What do you think about the subsidies that are available today?

387
00:20:19.874 --> 00:20:21.855
Do you find them sufficient?

388
00:20:21.855 --> 00:20:25.759
Do you think that farmers are rewarded enough for their regenerative efforts?

389
00:20:27.340 --> 00:20:34.726
I think in this new common agriculture policy that is going to be implemented in the next years,

390
00:20:35.407 --> 00:20:41.932
it has been definitely a step forward to support more sustainable and regenerative farming like this,

391
00:20:42.152 --> 00:20:42.693
for example,

392
00:20:43.694 --> 00:20:43.934
this

393
00:20:44.322 --> 00:20:46.603
the specific technique of the vegetation strips.

394
00:20:47.543 --> 00:21:03.847
We were doing it before anyway and now and a lot of people were saying like yeah but that is a problem because that is you have to change the tool and you have to adapt it and yeah I just rather continue like before or they

395
00:21:03.887 --> 00:21:13.710
wouldn't maybe give that much importance to the soil erosion or to biodiversity or to the slow creation of soil in that part of the field.

396
00:21:14.414 --> 00:21:23.978
And now it's been funny because a lot of local farmers have been coming to visit us to see how we made those strips last year,

397
00:21:24.298 --> 00:21:26.739
because then there was a subsidy for it.

398
00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:28.080
So everyone wanted to do that,

399
00:21:28.420 --> 00:21:29.720
but they were not sure how to.

400
00:21:29.800 --> 00:21:34.202
And then they came to see because ours are a few years old.

401
00:21:34.322 --> 00:21:41.525
Some of them are seven years old or six years old that we did the first ones with the experiments.

402
00:21:42.005 --> 00:21:43.826
So it shows that.

403
00:21:44.346 --> 00:21:46.767
Subsidies can be such a massive lever for change,

404
00:21:46.827 --> 00:21:47.028
right?

405
00:21:47.028 --> 00:21:57.233
Because if you can give farmers that extra incentive to try something new and then it turns out that it works really well for them and they can just add that to their farming system for the long term,

406
00:21:58.074 --> 00:22:00.415
then it's a big step in the right direction,

407
00:22:00.475 --> 00:22:00.695
right?

408
00:22:01.576 --> 00:22:01.736
Yeah,

409
00:22:02.136 --> 00:22:02.276
yeah,

410
00:22:02.316 --> 00:22:02.456
yeah.

411
00:22:02.536 --> 00:22:05.838
And now you see many,

412
00:22:05.898 --> 00:22:06.078
many,

413
00:22:06.118 --> 00:22:07.299
many farms in our area,

414
00:22:07.399 --> 00:22:09.620
many plots that now have these vegetation strips.

415
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:10.561
Before,

416
00:22:10.621 --> 00:22:12.041
I think we were the only ones,

417
00:22:12.402 --> 00:22:12.862
pretty much.

418
00:22:13.302 --> 00:22:14.462
Now a lot of people have it.

419
00:22:15.023 --> 00:22:18.423
And a lot of people were skeptical also and didn't do it.

420
00:22:18.603 --> 00:22:20.124
But I'm sure that after seeing that,

421
00:22:20.724 --> 00:22:20.844
yeah,

422
00:22:20.864 --> 00:22:21.804
it doesn't do any harm,

423
00:22:22.525 --> 00:22:25.645
we'll start doing it in a few years.

424
00:22:26.326 --> 00:22:30.927
The fact that you had an opportunity to experiment with regenerative practices on the farm,

425
00:22:31.647 --> 00:22:35.008
how much did that impact your motivation to come back,

426
00:22:35.088 --> 00:22:39.049
take on the farm and give it all of your time and your energy?

427
00:22:39.789 --> 00:22:42.050
I couldn't have stayed and managed.

428
00:22:42.870 --> 00:22:45.292
a farm of a monoculture of grains for 40 years.

429
00:22:46.212 --> 00:22:47.293
I would be doing something else.

430
00:22:47.633 --> 00:22:48.054
I couldn't,

431
00:22:48.994 --> 00:22:49.115
yeah,

432
00:22:49.155 --> 00:22:49.835
I don't like that.

433
00:22:50.355 --> 00:22:54.699
I really like the part of experimenting and trying new things.

434
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:57.641
Once something works,

435
00:22:58.521 --> 00:23:00.163
actually I prefer to delegate it.

436
00:23:00.963 --> 00:23:03.305
So the changes,

437
00:23:03.905 --> 00:23:04.045
yeah,

438
00:23:04.225 --> 00:23:05.326
I find they're quite exciting.

439
00:23:14.302 --> 00:23:22.670
And here comes the mysterious piano music I like to put at the end of episodes so that I can talk about the key messages I want to highlight from the conversation.

440
00:23:23.751 --> 00:23:25.313
But to be completely honest with you,

441
00:23:25.593 --> 00:23:26.333
it's quite late.

442
00:23:26.594 --> 00:23:31.578
I've been working all day and like most agricultural soils in Europe and in the world,

443
00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:32.740
I'm exhausted.

444
00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:39.306
So I'm just going to use this space to thank you so much for listening to this episode until the end and for...

445
00:23:39.826 --> 00:23:44.010
Being you for being the kind of person who cares about regenerating our planets.

446
00:23:45.011 --> 00:23:50.855
If you'd like to support me and my work and help me grow the Deep Seat podcast so that it can reach more people,

447
00:23:51.336 --> 00:23:53.117
you can do that in just a few seconds.

448
00:23:53.237 --> 00:23:57.121
So whichever platform you're using right now to listen to this episode,

449
00:23:57.161 --> 00:24:01.545
just click on the Deep Seat page and hit the follow or subscribe button.

450
00:24:02.405 --> 00:24:03.346
Thank you so much for that.

451
00:24:03.646 --> 00:24:04.487
Thank you for listening.

452
00:24:04.907 --> 00:24:07.269
I wish you the best day or the best night,

453
00:24:07.349 --> 00:24:07.790
depending on.

454
00:24:08.202 --> 00:24:11.171
what time it is when you're listening to this and take care.