WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.176 --> 00:00:09.223 So I think some people born with something inside and my stuff is about like being in the nature. 2 00:00:09.503 --> 00:00:12.486 I think that's more than doing farming. 3 00:00:12.526 --> 00:00:13.947 It's being in contact with the nature. 4 00:00:14.187 --> 00:00:15.568 It's like someone is calling you. 5 00:00:16.529 --> 00:00:17.710 It's where I feel comfortable, 6 00:00:17.770 --> 00:00:20.012 where I feel happy and where I feel free. 7 00:00:20.013 --> 00:00:20.772 It's here. 8 00:00:22.634 --> 00:00:24.776 Welcome back to the Deep Seed Podcast. 9 00:00:25.396 --> 00:00:31.561 This week I am in the center east region of Portugal visiting the most beautiful farm I've ever seen, 10 00:00:32.062 --> 00:00:32.983 Monte Silveira. 11 00:00:33.683 --> 00:00:35.405 My guest today is Joao Valente, 12 00:00:35.585 --> 00:00:37.887 the owner and manager of this farm. 13 00:00:38.528 --> 00:00:44.173 This episode was created as a video documentary and I highly recommend watching it on YouTube. 14 00:00:44.873 --> 00:00:46.835 But if that's not possible for you right now, 15 00:00:47.115 --> 00:00:47.515 don't worry, 16 00:00:47.555 --> 00:00:52.600 I've adapted the audio version to make sure you can follow everything right here. 17 00:00:53.480 --> 00:00:56.101 This episode was made in partnership with Soil Capital. 18 00:00:56.862 --> 00:00:57.502 I am your host, 19 00:00:57.822 --> 00:00:58.262 Rafael, 20 00:00:58.722 --> 00:01:00.343 and this is the Deep Seat Podcast. 21 00:01:08.367 --> 00:01:08.967 So good morning, 22 00:01:09.227 --> 00:01:10.648 thank you for having me. 23 00:01:12.129 --> 00:01:12.669 My name is 24 00:01:13.049 --> 00:01:13.689 João Valente. 25 00:01:14.590 --> 00:01:17.451 I am responsible for this project, 26 00:01:17.511 --> 00:01:19.312 it's called Monte Silveira. 27 00:01:20.220 --> 00:01:23.862 We are located in the interior center of Portugal, 28 00:01:24.042 --> 00:01:25.282 a really dry area, 29 00:01:25.382 --> 00:01:25.882 very near 30 00:01:26.343 --> 00:01:26.783 Spain. 31 00:01:27.683 --> 00:01:28.964 And we manage around 32 00:01:29.544 --> 00:01:31.085 1,000 hectares, 33 00:01:32.045 --> 00:01:32.945 the total project. 34 00:01:34.406 --> 00:01:41.229 I studied civil engineering in university and then I was really not enjoying what I was studying. 35 00:01:41.309 --> 00:01:41.449 And 36 00:01:42.229 --> 00:01:47.131 I shifted to economics in agriculture and then 37 00:01:48.052 --> 00:01:48.652 I came here. 38 00:01:48.892 --> 00:01:49.633 to this project. 39 00:01:50.273 --> 00:01:53.496 Our background was we were total conventional farm, 40 00:01:54.076 --> 00:01:57.399 we were one of the biggest tobacco growers in Portugal, 41 00:01:57.539 --> 00:02:10.009 we also at that time we grow we also grow broccoli for the frozen industry and melons for exportation for for Holland. 42 00:02:10.190 --> 00:02:16.475 That was like the the cycle in the in the arable land and then we also raised cattle obviously. 43 00:02:17.596 --> 00:02:17.836 Back 44 00:02:18.076 --> 00:02:19.416 then in 1999, 45 00:02:19.436 --> 00:02:20.677 2000, 46 00:02:21.257 --> 00:02:27.059 I was already going to some shows about organic farming and some stuff, 47 00:02:27.259 --> 00:02:32.660 listening to some people out of the blocks for that time. 48 00:02:33.700 --> 00:02:36.041 And the things that I was listening to, 49 00:02:37.361 --> 00:02:42.943 they make sense from the point of view of a person that really likes and enjoys to be in nature. 50 00:02:43.243 --> 00:02:43.363 So 51 00:02:45.003 --> 00:02:46.544 I started to ask myself. 52 00:02:47.576 --> 00:02:56.940 If it was possible to do farming in a profitability point of view without not being so aggressive to nature, 53 00:02:57.360 --> 00:02:58.701 not imposing everything. 54 00:02:59.921 --> 00:03:02.963 I always say this when I make some talks and some shows, 55 00:03:03.003 --> 00:03:05.464 it's the same about us humans, 56 00:03:05.484 --> 00:03:05.904 it's like, 57 00:03:06.604 --> 00:03:07.024 I want, 58 00:03:07.144 --> 00:03:07.965 I want to do this, 59 00:03:08.025 --> 00:03:09.305 I want to grow wheat, 60 00:03:09.345 --> 00:03:10.466 I want to grow corn, 61 00:03:10.486 --> 00:03:12.947 I want to grow a vineyard. 62 00:03:13.687 --> 00:03:15.468 And our first... 63 00:03:16.452 --> 00:03:28.276 thought or intention should be let me understand what I want to do what I want to do and and yeah it was a get-together of several opportunities because 64 00:03:29.216 --> 00:03:32.637 Tobacco crop was about to get without subsidies. 65 00:03:33.117 --> 00:03:41.180 So there was kind of a financial pillow to help people that wanted to to disengage from from tobacco 66 00:03:42.216 --> 00:03:44.657 And we have a family reunion and we say, 67 00:03:44.677 --> 00:03:44.897 okay, 68 00:03:44.937 --> 00:03:45.898 let's try organic. 69 00:03:46.598 --> 00:03:48.259 And since back then we never stopped. 70 00:03:48.859 --> 00:03:49.079 Right. 71 00:03:49.139 --> 00:03:51.660 And now we just achieved the point that we achieved. 72 00:03:51.700 --> 00:03:52.000 And now, 73 00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:53.501 RegenQ Organic 74 00:03:53.861 --> 00:03:55.021 Certified, one of the, 75 00:03:56.242 --> 00:03:59.283 I think it's the first one in the Iberian Peninsula, 76 00:03:59.623 --> 00:04:01.444 and one of the nine in Europe. 77 00:04:01.984 --> 00:04:03.785 Large Farm is the first one in Europe, 78 00:04:03.845 --> 00:04:04.525 unfortunately. 79 00:04:04.685 --> 00:04:07.607 I hope there are more people come and join. 80 00:04:08.827 --> 00:04:09.928 And yeah, 81 00:04:10.308 --> 00:04:10.728 recently... 82 00:04:11.424 --> 00:04:13.426 Nominated also for the Top 50 Farmers' 83 00:04:13.446 --> 00:04:13.927 Co-Work. 84 00:04:14.107 --> 00:04:15.809 Also a great honor to be there. 85 00:04:16.610 --> 00:04:18.693 I will consider Lighthouse Farm a pioneer, 86 00:04:19.013 --> 00:04:22.077 but what I feel it's like, 87 00:04:22.597 --> 00:04:23.438 I don't know nothing. 88 00:04:24.599 --> 00:04:25.420 I learn every day. 89 00:04:26.281 --> 00:04:27.042 I learn every day. 90 00:04:28.564 --> 00:04:28.784 Okay, 91 00:04:29.145 --> 00:04:30.105 that's incredible. 92 00:04:30.606 --> 00:04:37.351 I can't wait to dig deeper into everything you're doing here to try to really understand it in as much depth as possible. 93 00:04:37.612 --> 00:04:37.812 Okay. 94 00:04:38.192 --> 00:04:40.234 And before we do that, 95 00:04:40.274 --> 00:04:42.316 maybe you could give me a summary, 96 00:04:42.336 --> 00:04:44.257 an overview of the operation, 97 00:04:44.417 --> 00:04:45.358 what you farm here, 98 00:04:45.538 --> 00:04:46.359 how the system works. 99 00:04:46.599 --> 00:04:46.919 Okay, 100 00:04:47.200 --> 00:04:52.064 so we manage around 1,000 hectares considering all the plots that we have. 101 00:04:52.444 --> 00:04:54.125 This one where we are having this interview, 102 00:04:54.206 --> 00:04:55.386 it's the biggest, 103 00:04:55.727 --> 00:04:57.028 it's around 700 hectares. 104 00:04:57.764 --> 00:04:58.124 Mainly, 105 00:04:58.385 --> 00:05:00.426 we have 500 hectares of montado. 106 00:05:00.726 --> 00:05:02.607 It's an agroforestry system. 107 00:05:02.747 --> 00:05:04.308 I think it's the oldest one, 108 00:05:05.169 --> 00:05:06.590 at least in the Iberian Peninsula. 109 00:05:07.090 --> 00:05:10.672 It's composed by mainly two species of Quercus, 110 00:05:10.892 --> 00:05:11.293 called 111 00:05:12.233 --> 00:05:14.855 Quercus rotundifolia and Quercus sober. 112 00:05:15.895 --> 00:05:17.396 That ecosystem, 113 00:05:17.977 --> 00:05:18.597 unfortunately, 114 00:05:18.677 --> 00:05:19.678 we are losing more than 115 00:05:20.698 --> 00:05:22.940 5,000 to 7,000 hectares per year. 116 00:05:23.852 --> 00:05:25.673 And we are losing that because we don't know, 117 00:05:25.773 --> 00:05:28.755 we don't longer manage it how it was supposed to be managed. 118 00:05:28.756 --> 00:05:32.417 It was created by shepherds and it was grazed every year, 119 00:05:32.697 --> 00:05:35.719 respecting the time of the year that we were, 120 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:39.141 if we were in spring or if we were in summer or winter. 121 00:05:39.541 --> 00:05:43.883 So we had an impact and it has a resting period. 122 00:05:44.684 --> 00:05:49.006 And then the other part we do a permanent crop like olives, 123 00:05:49.126 --> 00:05:50.407 traditional olive trees, 124 00:05:51.048 --> 00:05:51.528 almonds. 125 00:05:53.252 --> 00:06:10.325 quince and strawberry trees and on the annual crops we grow wheat oats rye chickpeas pinto beans fava beans and yeah there's a lot so 126 00:06:10.385 --> 00:06:14.868 there's a lot lots to talk about yeah so let's go let's check it out okay okay 127 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:19.901 So a big part of the farm is the Montado. 128 00:06:20.361 --> 00:06:20.542 Yeah. 129 00:06:20.802 --> 00:06:23.223 You mentioned it in the introduction just before. 130 00:06:23.543 --> 00:06:23.723 Yeah. 131 00:06:24.723 --> 00:06:29.905 Could you tell us more about this ecosystem and more importantly how you manage it? 132 00:06:30.486 --> 00:06:30.806 Okay. 133 00:06:32.146 --> 00:06:32.306 Well, 134 00:06:32.526 --> 00:06:33.127 the Montado, 135 00:06:34.247 --> 00:06:35.128 as I said before, 136 00:06:35.648 --> 00:06:41.250 it's one of the most antique agroforestry systems that we have in the Mediterranean. 137 00:06:42.451 --> 00:06:44.291 It has more than 10,000 years. 138 00:06:45.112 --> 00:06:45.912 It's not natural. 139 00:06:46.096 --> 00:06:48.497 It was planted by the men 10,000 years ago. 140 00:06:49.338 --> 00:06:52.199 The family is from the oak tree. 141 00:06:53.380 --> 00:07:00.064 The mainly two species that we have is this one that doesn't provide the cork, 142 00:07:00.144 --> 00:07:02.365 that is Quercus rotundifolia. 143 00:07:02.785 --> 00:07:05.027 In Portuguese we call it Azinheira. 144 00:07:05.847 --> 00:07:09.949 And that one that provides us the cork is called 145 00:07:10.410 --> 00:07:12.331 Quercus sober. 146 00:07:12.971 --> 00:07:14.692 And that is the one that 147 00:07:14.792 --> 00:07:36.141 people think it's more valuable but they work like together um well this system for me it's it's an inspiration for reminding us how man was connected to nature and and and took advantage of of so many simple things because these 148 00:07:36.201 --> 00:07:43.944 trees before there were trees there were there were bushes and men learned to to prune it into a range 149 00:07:44.304 --> 00:07:46.045 and to transform it into a tree, 150 00:07:46.506 --> 00:07:47.606 to provide shadow, 151 00:07:48.307 --> 00:07:50.288 to provide grass, 152 00:07:51.169 --> 00:07:56.092 and obviously to provide food for them and for the animals. 153 00:07:56.153 --> 00:08:02.097 Because the fruit many years ago was of a great importance to make flour, 154 00:08:02.637 --> 00:08:03.398 to make bread, 155 00:08:04.499 --> 00:08:04.919 to eat, 156 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:05.759 to transform, 157 00:08:06.660 --> 00:08:08.001 and also for feeding the animals. 158 00:08:08.862 --> 00:08:09.562 Because many, 159 00:08:09.622 --> 00:08:11.724 many years ago obviously 10 000 years ago 160 00:08:12.888 --> 00:08:18.491 Being a shepherd and walking with the animals was a resource very valuable. 161 00:08:18.551 --> 00:08:19.452 It gave us the meat, 162 00:08:19.832 --> 00:08:20.392 the milk, 163 00:08:21.113 --> 00:08:23.594 the wool and the skin to dress us up. 164 00:08:24.435 --> 00:08:26.596 And so in the Mediterranean, 165 00:08:26.936 --> 00:08:31.839 the systems that combine forestry with agriculture, 166 00:08:31.840 --> 00:08:32.619 if you want to call it, 167 00:08:33.680 --> 00:08:34.981 by using with the animals, 168 00:08:35.141 --> 00:08:38.603 they were of a very big importance. 169 00:08:39.283 --> 00:08:40.744 Here we try to mimic. 170 00:08:41.920 --> 00:08:45.003 Obviously nature with the impact grazing. 171 00:08:45.763 --> 00:08:50.627 With all this sick approach we work with the four species of animals in the montado. 172 00:08:50.667 --> 00:08:55.550 We work with the goats that you are be able to see the work that Rodrigo is doing, 173 00:08:56.091 --> 00:08:56.751 with sheeps, 174 00:08:57.351 --> 00:09:01.274 with the black Portuguese pig and with cows. 175 00:09:02.215 --> 00:09:08.900 Normally the order that we set up to manage the montado is when the fruit 176 00:09:09.984 --> 00:09:13.685 starts to fall in early September, 177 00:09:13.945 --> 00:09:15.866 and then it goes until October, 178 00:09:15.946 --> 00:09:16.466 November, 179 00:09:16.826 --> 00:09:17.326 December, 180 00:09:18.026 --> 00:09:19.387 we start to integrate the pigs. 181 00:09:19.447 --> 00:09:19.887 The pigs, 182 00:09:19.987 --> 00:09:20.707 at this moment, 183 00:09:21.227 --> 00:09:25.588 they can transform the fruit into a high valuable asset, 184 00:09:25.628 --> 00:09:28.009 that is the pata negra, 185 00:09:28.149 --> 00:09:28.529 the ham, 186 00:09:29.610 --> 00:09:34.091 and they can transform that oil into an asset, 187 00:09:34.231 --> 00:09:36.411 and that gives that flavor to the meat. 188 00:09:37.192 --> 00:09:37.972 After the pigs, 189 00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:56.272 pest and because the pigs cannot eat all the grass we start working with the sheeps together with the cows okay and for specific spots like bushes where we have brambles and other species we 190 00:09:57.697 --> 00:10:23.598 use electric fences to operate with the goats because goats as we all know they don't they don't are like big fans of grass they are like bush eaters so it's working with different tools for different contexts at different times of the year always trying to mimic a nature obviously turn to mimic a how earths were managed because shepherds were always afraid of wild animals and they They had the dogs, 191 00:10:23.599 --> 00:10:26.080 so all the animals worked with them. 192 00:10:26.300 --> 00:10:27.461 in a compact system. 193 00:10:28.241 --> 00:10:32.083 And we know because we had a lot of studies, 194 00:10:32.504 --> 00:10:33.984 I don't know if Diogo mentioned it, 195 00:10:34.044 --> 00:10:36.706 but by managing correctly the animals, 196 00:10:37.286 --> 00:10:37.827 for example, 197 00:10:37.887 --> 00:10:43.150 you can have or increase the work of the microbiome in the soil, 198 00:10:43.210 --> 00:10:45.931 so you can increase the cycle of nutrients in the soil. 199 00:10:46.291 --> 00:10:48.152 So you can make the soil more functional, 200 00:10:48.273 --> 00:10:49.033 more profitable, 201 00:10:49.073 --> 00:10:52.515 providing you to this operation more grass. 202 00:10:52.915 --> 00:10:54.096 So if you have more grass, 203 00:10:54.416 --> 00:10:56.618 You can increase the number of animals that you have, 204 00:10:56.658 --> 00:11:00.261 so you can increase your profitability in the operation. 205 00:11:01.001 --> 00:11:02.122 And this is how we manage. 206 00:11:02.343 --> 00:11:06.766 After we pass the sheep with the cows, 207 00:11:07.487 --> 00:11:09.408 we let the montado to rest. 208 00:11:10.189 --> 00:11:12.291 It's so important to be grazed, 209 00:11:12.831 --> 00:11:15.533 as it is so important to have that period of rest, 210 00:11:16.094 --> 00:11:18.035 so that you give nature time to recover. 211 00:11:18.436 --> 00:11:20.518 What we unfortunately see more, 212 00:11:20.638 --> 00:11:21.799 at least in my country, 213 00:11:22.439 --> 00:11:23.440 it's overgrazing. 214 00:11:24.876 --> 00:11:26.017 You no longer see... 215 00:11:26.578 --> 00:11:28.759 all this system was made with perennial grasses. 216 00:11:29.079 --> 00:11:32.382 And now what you see when you are walking through other farms, 217 00:11:32.902 --> 00:11:33.803 it's okay they have grass, 218 00:11:33.863 --> 00:11:35.084 but they have like annuals. 219 00:11:35.864 --> 00:11:43.710 And what we try to do here with this kind of approach is bringing back the perennial system. 220 00:11:44.170 --> 00:11:47.592 Because it's a much more resilient system, 221 00:11:48.253 --> 00:11:48.793 the roots, 222 00:11:49.254 --> 00:11:52.456 obviously they made a totally different work from an annual. 223 00:11:52.736 --> 00:11:54.677 from the root of an annual plant, 224 00:11:55.238 --> 00:11:56.359 they build our soil, 225 00:11:57.499 --> 00:11:58.880 they increase the organic matter, 226 00:11:59.060 --> 00:12:01.822 so you will be able to sequest more water, 227 00:12:02.343 --> 00:12:05.204 so you'll be able to have more grass. 228 00:12:05.825 --> 00:12:07.886 This is what we are working for. 229 00:12:08.287 --> 00:12:13.510 Could you sort of describe a little bit how you manage to keep the animals in close herds, 230 00:12:13.550 --> 00:12:14.251 in small herds, 231 00:12:14.391 --> 00:12:16.232 how you rotate them, 232 00:12:17.092 --> 00:12:22.116 And how does that contribute to increasing the perennial? 233 00:12:23.256 --> 00:12:24.317 plants on the system. 234 00:12:24.677 --> 00:12:24.918 Okay, 235 00:12:25.538 --> 00:12:28.040 so the way we manage the animals in the Montado is, 236 00:12:28.100 --> 00:12:28.300 okay, 237 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:29.641 we have physical fences, 238 00:12:29.661 --> 00:12:31.002 we have paddocks around 239 00:12:31.502 --> 00:12:33.103 85 to 100 hectares, 240 00:12:33.524 --> 00:12:37.186 but obviously we don't want them loose in these big areas, 241 00:12:37.246 --> 00:12:40.869 so we use the electric fences to keep them together, 242 00:12:41.529 --> 00:12:45.772 and obviously with water always being next to them, 243 00:12:46.472 --> 00:12:51.276 and we try to mimic the impact grazing system. 244 00:12:51.952 --> 00:12:53.873 So by creating that impact, 245 00:12:55.374 --> 00:12:59.676 you wake up very old perennial plants that are sleeping. 246 00:13:00.016 --> 00:13:02.918 Because this system was designed to be managed like that. 247 00:13:03.538 --> 00:13:09.762 And the reason that it is not providing us the correct rest is because we are not managing in the correct way. 248 00:13:10.402 --> 00:13:18.226 So what we do is we just mimic the old herds of wild animals and the way that old shepherds manage. 249 00:13:18.306 --> 00:13:19.607 Like with electric fences, 250 00:13:20.027 --> 00:13:21.108 we keep them real tight. 251 00:13:21.492 --> 00:13:24.574 And then we move them to another part and to another part, 252 00:13:25.015 --> 00:13:34.582 and then we have a board where we put the times that each animal or each species have passed in that plot, 253 00:13:34.802 --> 00:13:37.684 and then we can control the resting periods. 254 00:13:37.904 --> 00:13:41.747 We don't have a specific time to have a certain species in a certain plot. 255 00:13:42.408 --> 00:13:43.588 It's all about observation, 256 00:13:43.629 --> 00:13:47.772 and that's the thing about regenerative farming or the holistic. 257 00:13:48.708 --> 00:13:51.649 approach to even when you do a grazing plan. 258 00:13:52.290 --> 00:13:54.851 You need to observe what amount of grass you have. 259 00:13:54.891 --> 00:14:02.374 It's all about the time that you want them because you need to first you need to measure the food that you want. 260 00:14:02.974 --> 00:14:06.675 Then you need to know what do you want to do with the food that you want. 261 00:14:07.336 --> 00:14:09.757 Is there a time of the year that you wanted to take it down? 262 00:14:09.937 --> 00:14:12.898 Is there a time of the year that you wanted to leave it like half eaten? 263 00:14:13.938 --> 00:14:16.979 You need to check out the weather as there's gonna be rain coming. 264 00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:17.900 So I'm gonna get 265 00:14:18.180 --> 00:14:24.504 a regrowth on grass i'm not going to have the regrowth on grass it's not just recipes that you but you do 266 00:14:25.565 --> 00:14:41.236 30 days and magic will happens now it doesn't go that way so you have to always be observing and then you do decisions yeah okay that's great yeah if you have a big area with a certain density of animals and you just let 267 00:14:41.276 --> 00:14:46.400 them be on that big area for a long period of time or if you have exactly the same 268 00:14:46.660 --> 00:14:57.629 total density but managed in a rotational way like you do yeah what's the difference why is it better for the ecosystem by letting the animals lose on the area it's like 269 00:14:58.405 --> 00:15:02.228 When you go to a buffet and you go and I'm gonna eat a little bit of this, 270 00:15:02.269 --> 00:15:03.129 a little bit of that, 271 00:15:03.269 --> 00:15:05.251 because you are able to choose. 272 00:15:06.332 --> 00:15:10.836 And the system was not designed for the animals to choose. 273 00:15:11.617 --> 00:15:16.221 The system was designed by animals are all together afraid of predators, 274 00:15:16.321 --> 00:15:18.063 afraid that something happens. 275 00:15:18.103 --> 00:15:19.584 They go all together to drink water. 276 00:15:20.225 --> 00:15:22.066 And the system was designed for that. 277 00:15:22.366 --> 00:15:24.849 That is the impact that you do with the poo. 278 00:15:25.289 --> 00:15:40.915 pee with a sweat of the animal being laid down that that what wakes up the the system okay so i like the buffet analogy so the the animals they will pick what they like the most yeah we'll go around and overgraze some areas undergraze other areas they will eat 279 00:15:40.935 --> 00:15:51.740 a lot of one types of plants but not the other and and you end up with a less diverse ecosystem with less perennials and yeah I'll give you a very good example here. 280 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:54.181 If you let the animal loose... 281 00:15:54.841 --> 00:15:56.222 here they will go for this. 282 00:15:57.383 --> 00:15:58.504 But if you press them, 283 00:15:58.824 --> 00:16:01.566 you will have animals eating this shrub. 284 00:16:02.406 --> 00:16:03.767 And even this shrub here. 285 00:16:04.428 --> 00:16:07.090 Even a cow or a sheep will go for this, 286 00:16:07.150 --> 00:16:08.371 because they are so pressed, 287 00:16:08.791 --> 00:16:10.072 they will go and eat it. 288 00:16:10.172 --> 00:16:13.594 So they will promote that this root system goes deeper. 289 00:16:14.175 --> 00:16:14.355 Okay. 290 00:16:14.375 --> 00:16:14.575 Okay? 291 00:16:14.795 --> 00:16:14.915 Yeah, 292 00:16:14.975 --> 00:16:15.096 yeah, 293 00:16:15.216 --> 00:16:15.476 yeah. 294 00:16:15.477 --> 00:16:15.936 So it's... 295 00:16:16.456 --> 00:16:16.677 Right, 296 00:16:16.897 --> 00:16:17.077 right. 297 00:16:17.257 --> 00:16:18.138 Makes a lot of sense. 298 00:16:18.258 --> 00:16:18.438 Yes. 299 00:16:18.878 --> 00:16:21.340 And so what's the evolution you've observed? 300 00:16:21.540 --> 00:16:22.501 The difference between... 301 00:16:22.801 --> 00:16:25.703 15 years ago and today in the landscape that we can see here? 302 00:16:28.045 --> 00:16:33.628 The main difference for me is the amount of food that I'm growing, 303 00:16:34.149 --> 00:16:35.190 so the amount of grass, 304 00:16:35.790 --> 00:16:36.530 the species. 305 00:16:36.911 --> 00:16:42.655 I'm actually now having much more perennial systems that feed, 306 00:16:42.835 --> 00:16:43.876 that have more fiber, 307 00:16:43.976 --> 00:16:48.239 so with less grass and more quality grass 308 00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:51.581 I can have my animals like... 309 00:16:51.993 --> 00:16:52.233 bigger, 310 00:16:52.413 --> 00:16:52.793 fatter, 311 00:16:53.594 --> 00:16:54.574 and especially, 312 00:16:56.135 --> 00:16:57.395 and for me it's the most important, 313 00:16:57.695 --> 00:17:00.837 the montado has stopped the mortality. 314 00:17:01.937 --> 00:17:05.699 So the way of grazing it by just letting the animals free, 315 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:07.999 that's how we lose a lot of montado. 316 00:17:08.140 --> 00:17:09.200 We don't manage it right. 317 00:17:09.260 --> 00:17:12.661 This system was designed to be managed this way. 318 00:17:12.781 --> 00:17:13.542 When by having, 319 00:17:13.982 --> 00:17:14.482 for example, 320 00:17:14.483 --> 00:17:18.084 we are cork producers and contrary to many farms, 321 00:17:18.524 --> 00:17:20.765 we don't decrease our cork production. 322 00:17:21.265 --> 00:17:21.465 Okay. 323 00:17:21.745 --> 00:17:23.446 It stays stable, 324 00:17:24.026 --> 00:17:25.006 but it doesn't go down. 325 00:17:25.306 --> 00:17:25.486 Okay. 326 00:17:25.546 --> 00:17:26.546 And we have dead trees. 327 00:17:26.747 --> 00:17:32.928 So that's a sign that new trees are coming and new trees are providing you cork and fruit. 328 00:17:33.008 --> 00:17:34.649 Like this one here, 329 00:17:34.689 --> 00:17:35.449 this small one, 330 00:17:36.889 --> 00:17:38.090 it was a bush like this 331 00:17:38.790 --> 00:17:39.750 17 years ago. 332 00:17:40.431 --> 00:17:42.911 We just make them like a protection. 333 00:17:43.571 --> 00:17:44.192 We prune it. 334 00:17:44.472 --> 00:17:45.632 And now like this one, 335 00:17:45.732 --> 00:17:46.432 like this one. 336 00:17:46.952 --> 00:17:48.373 So this is... 337 00:17:49.029 --> 00:17:49.569 For example, 338 00:17:49.609 --> 00:17:53.070 this is one thing that we do is promote the natural regeneration. 339 00:17:54.150 --> 00:17:54.411 For me, 340 00:17:54.571 --> 00:17:57.391 these are the best trees that the system can give me. 341 00:17:57.511 --> 00:17:58.572 But at the same time, 342 00:17:59.172 --> 00:18:01.433 we also do plantation of new trees. 343 00:18:01.573 --> 00:18:06.554 So we try to combine the two things because we have lost a lot of time. 344 00:18:06.854 --> 00:18:08.995 So we're trying to get it back. 345 00:18:09.255 --> 00:18:09.895 That's amazing. 346 00:18:09.995 --> 00:18:11.856 So the ecosystem is reviving, 347 00:18:12.016 --> 00:18:13.476 you get more trees, 348 00:18:14.096 --> 00:18:16.437 younger trees that you're taking care of. 349 00:18:17.345 --> 00:18:24.751 increasing sort of the tree density of the area and the old trees are healthier and they survive longer thanks to that system. 350 00:18:24.891 --> 00:18:27.013 Then you get more grass growth, 351 00:18:27.714 --> 00:18:28.194 healthier, 352 00:18:29.275 --> 00:18:36.841 more diverse kind of plants and grasses which is great for the health of your animals as well so you have a healthier trees, 353 00:18:37.021 --> 00:18:37.822 healthier grass, 354 00:18:37.942 --> 00:18:38.782 healthier animals. 355 00:18:39.463 --> 00:18:46.669 And as you mentioned it's also good for your for the economic uh side of the yes exactly what i want to say it's like people 356 00:18:47.841 --> 00:18:56.265 still look at this like it's too complicated but if you have if this provides you more money in your pocket why don't you do it yeah it's just uh 357 00:18:57.305 --> 00:19:15.933 I don't know so this is a smart economic choice as well as well yeah yeah that's for the ecosystem yeah absolutely yeah absolutely right just a quick post to tell you about the official partner of the deep seat podcast soil capital most Farmers I've met love the idea of transitioning to regenerative agriculture. 358 00:19:16.413 --> 00:19:36.219 but a lot of the time they lack the financial incentives to do so and that's where soil capital comes in they financially reward farmers who improve things like soil health water cycles or biodiversity they're an amazing company i love what they're doing and i'm super proud to be partnering with them for the podcast we 359 00:19:36.239 --> 00:19:42.281 can see here that we have a lot of uh new trees new trees being planted? 360 00:19:42.621 --> 00:19:42.901 Yes. 361 00:19:43.201 --> 00:19:43.441 Could you... 362 00:19:43.981 --> 00:19:44.882 Tell us what's going on here. 363 00:19:45.263 --> 00:19:45.483 Yeah, 364 00:19:45.503 --> 00:19:45.824 okay. 365 00:19:45.984 --> 00:19:46.705 So this is... 366 00:19:48.807 --> 00:19:55.355 By the same way we take advantage of natural trees that are born in the system and we take care of them, 367 00:19:55.996 --> 00:19:59.160 we also boost the system with the plantation of new trees. 368 00:19:59.948 --> 00:20:02.949 This is a very interesting project of a plantation of, 369 00:20:03.389 --> 00:20:05.950 we planted 8,000 cork trees. 370 00:20:07.030 --> 00:20:14.132 And the thing here is that we designed a key line plantation here. 371 00:20:15.052 --> 00:20:17.393 So a key line for the person, 372 00:20:17.853 --> 00:20:20.134 for the public that doesn't know what it is, 373 00:20:20.214 --> 00:20:20.414 it's, 374 00:20:21.314 --> 00:20:23.355 and I'll tell you the most modest way, 375 00:20:23.535 --> 00:20:27.636 it's just a way of spreading the water correctly when you don't have a flat terrain. 376 00:20:30.565 --> 00:20:33.847 And when you do a key line design, 377 00:20:34.267 --> 00:20:35.728 you have what you call, 378 00:20:35.948 --> 00:20:38.389 what we call the master line. 379 00:20:39.230 --> 00:20:41.391 Because you have to respect when you pass, 380 00:20:41.711 --> 00:20:42.411 there's a plow, 381 00:20:42.732 --> 00:20:44.052 you call the yeoman's plow. 382 00:20:44.473 --> 00:20:46.234 I think it was invented in Australia. 383 00:20:47.894 --> 00:20:53.357 That will open channels underneath the soil to spread the water all over. 384 00:20:54.158 --> 00:20:55.599 And you have to pass, 385 00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:57.099 because it's a design, 386 00:20:57.220 --> 00:20:57.840 it has like... 387 00:20:59.245 --> 00:21:01.426 curved design and then it goes straight. 388 00:21:02.347 --> 00:21:05.209 It's like a Nanty curved design. 389 00:21:05.950 --> 00:21:08.371 And for you to know where is your master line, 390 00:21:08.372 --> 00:21:09.032 we have thought, 391 00:21:09.092 --> 00:21:09.412 okay, 392 00:21:09.912 --> 00:21:12.955 let's do the plantation where the master line is. 393 00:21:13.835 --> 00:21:20.440 So the plants will take advantage because we made the plantation with a little slope like this one. 394 00:21:21.381 --> 00:21:23.322 And then when you pass the yeoman's plow, 395 00:21:23.382 --> 00:21:25.764 you will know exactly where the master line is. 396 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:27.461 Because when you do it, 397 00:21:27.462 --> 00:21:31.203 you need to respect half of the distance of this line, 398 00:21:31.204 --> 00:21:35.125 and then you do the other half of the distance of the design of the other line. 399 00:21:35.666 --> 00:21:36.706 So you cannot lose, 400 00:21:37.106 --> 00:21:39.088 it looks like crazy and complicated, 401 00:21:39.089 --> 00:21:39.728 but it's not. 402 00:21:40.588 --> 00:21:41.889 So we decided, 403 00:21:41.949 --> 00:21:42.289 okay, 404 00:21:42.429 --> 00:21:45.011 let's guarantee that those trees have always water. 405 00:21:45.952 --> 00:21:48.573 It's like a combination of two things. 406 00:21:48.753 --> 00:21:49.914 So if I understand correctly, 407 00:21:50.554 --> 00:21:52.856 the key line design follows the contour line, 408 00:21:52.896 --> 00:21:53.096 right? 409 00:21:53.276 --> 00:21:53.436 Yeah. 410 00:21:53.824 --> 00:21:54.424 So the idea, 411 00:21:54.705 --> 00:21:55.085 like you said, 412 00:21:55.086 --> 00:21:58.507 is to make sure that the water is well distributed throughout the landscape. 413 00:21:58.508 --> 00:21:58.607 Yeah, 414 00:21:58.608 --> 00:21:59.248 all over the terrain, 415 00:21:59.368 --> 00:21:59.488 yeah. 416 00:21:59.688 --> 00:22:04.932 And then it doesn't make water strains and holes and doesn't degradate, 417 00:22:04.952 --> 00:22:09.875 it doesn't take the soil when you have a lot of rain in a short period of time, 418 00:22:09.895 --> 00:22:12.817 you just get good and cool distribution. 419 00:22:13.177 --> 00:22:15.659 And you've planted the trees along those lines as well. 420 00:22:15.859 --> 00:22:18.100 Is that because this is where you have the most water, 421 00:22:18.261 --> 00:22:20.182 that's where they have the most chance of survival then? 422 00:22:20.502 --> 00:22:20.722 Yes, 423 00:22:20.802 --> 00:22:21.223 exactly. 424 00:22:21.403 --> 00:22:21.563 Okay, 425 00:22:21.683 --> 00:22:21.843 okay. 426 00:22:22.263 --> 00:22:23.224 So you planted... 427 00:22:23.404 --> 00:22:25.785 8 000 new trees, 428 00:22:25.905 --> 00:22:26.386 cork trees. 429 00:22:27.326 --> 00:22:32.289 When we look at those sticks there we don't actually see the trees yet so they're very very young. 430 00:22:32.309 --> 00:22:34.991 Did you plant them from Acorn? 431 00:22:35.051 --> 00:22:41.494 This one we are now at this time we are in March, 432 00:22:41.514 --> 00:22:42.255 in the end of March. 433 00:22:42.755 --> 00:22:45.116 This one was planted in 434 00:22:45.456 --> 00:22:47.337 October with the fruit. 435 00:22:47.998 --> 00:22:49.899 So you planted straight from the fruit? 436 00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:50.519 Yeah, 437 00:22:50.539 --> 00:22:51.720 we select the best 438 00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:58.044 the best acorn fruits from the best trees and then we plant them. 439 00:22:58.464 --> 00:22:58.664 Okay, 440 00:22:59.065 --> 00:23:00.045 so by... 441 00:23:00.766 --> 00:23:02.927 So it's material from the farm. 442 00:23:03.167 --> 00:23:03.708 That's how we... 443 00:23:03.948 --> 00:23:08.611 that's why we try to work with everything from the farm. 444 00:23:08.891 --> 00:23:14.175 We trust a lot in working with the same DNA and not bring DNA from other places. 445 00:23:14.335 --> 00:23:14.615 I see. 446 00:23:14.935 --> 00:23:21.180 And we know that because we try to work with the fruits from other farms and other trees and we didn't have the 447 00:23:21.956 --> 00:23:25.037 the percentage of success by working with our. 448 00:23:25.638 --> 00:23:25.898 Okay, 449 00:23:26.218 --> 00:23:26.418 okay. 450 00:23:26.578 --> 00:23:29.719 So by starting from the acorns, 451 00:23:29.979 --> 00:23:31.820 from other trees here on the farm, 452 00:23:32.580 --> 00:23:36.362 you know that this genetic material is adapted to your farm, 453 00:23:36.382 --> 00:23:36.982 to your soil. 454 00:23:37.062 --> 00:23:37.442 Exactly. 455 00:23:37.923 --> 00:23:41.024 It has the most chance of thriving here in the ecosystem. 456 00:23:41.244 --> 00:23:41.384 Yeah, 457 00:23:41.844 --> 00:23:42.525 makes a lot of sense. 458 00:23:42.585 --> 00:23:45.446 But from a young little tree like this, 459 00:23:46.226 --> 00:23:47.347 to get into a full... 460 00:23:48.207 --> 00:23:49.347 Let's look at this tree over here. 461 00:23:49.407 --> 00:23:49.587 Like, 462 00:23:49.708 --> 00:23:50.588 how old is that tree? 463 00:23:52.144 --> 00:23:53.825 It has more than 100 years. 464 00:23:54.225 --> 00:23:58.147 You can see the years that the tree has by the extraction of cork. 465 00:23:59.388 --> 00:24:01.870 If you do it without being irrigated, 466 00:24:02.230 --> 00:24:03.310 you need around 467 00:24:05.592 --> 00:24:07.973 20 years to make the first extraction. 468 00:24:08.253 --> 00:24:12.596 So you mean from the moment the tree started to grow until the first time you take some of the cork, 469 00:24:13.656 --> 00:24:14.997 then you need at least 20 years? 470 00:24:15.297 --> 00:24:15.537 Yes, 471 00:24:15.617 --> 00:24:18.039 if you don't know with the irrigation systems, 472 00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:20.260 I don't believe it's the same quality. 473 00:24:20.996 --> 00:24:21.356 Actually, 474 00:24:21.616 --> 00:24:24.818 they are pushing and after seven, 475 00:24:24.918 --> 00:24:26.479 nine years you can take the first one. 476 00:24:26.539 --> 00:24:27.780 That really is a skinny tree. 477 00:24:28.540 --> 00:24:32.522 But it's us forcing the system. 478 00:24:33.063 --> 00:24:38.325 So the tree grows for a number of years until it has enough bark around it. 479 00:24:39.026 --> 00:24:40.006 Then you harvest the bark. 480 00:24:40.007 --> 00:24:40.967 We can see the line here. 481 00:24:41.007 --> 00:24:45.009 You see here is the line where the latest one was here. 482 00:24:45.589 --> 00:24:45.849 Oh yeah. 483 00:24:46.330 --> 00:24:46.630 Okay. 484 00:24:47.570 --> 00:24:48.731 And then the other one, 485 00:24:48.811 --> 00:24:50.252 like this is ten years ago. 486 00:24:50.896 --> 00:24:58.859 and this is 20 years ago here and then he here 13 years ago and he had here another one of course so 487 00:25:00.416 --> 00:25:02.497 Maybe 40 years plus the regrowth, 488 00:25:02.577 --> 00:25:07.000 maybe this tree would be around 75 to 489 00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:09.041 80, 85, 490 00:25:09.101 --> 00:25:10.161 90 years probably. 491 00:25:10.422 --> 00:25:10.662 Okay, 492 00:25:10.922 --> 00:25:11.602 I think I get it. 493 00:25:11.642 --> 00:25:15.544 So you harvest the bark. 494 00:25:16.025 --> 00:25:16.185 Yeah. 495 00:25:16.865 --> 00:25:23.509 It takes about 10 years to regrow a bark that is strong enough so that you can harvest it again and you can keep doing that. 496 00:25:25.029 --> 00:25:26.410 For as long as the tree is alive. 497 00:25:26.830 --> 00:25:28.571 And it doesn't harm the tree in any way? 498 00:25:29.852 --> 00:25:29.972 No, 499 00:25:30.152 --> 00:25:30.553 not at all. 500 00:25:30.773 --> 00:25:32.614 So it's an extremely sustainable practice. 501 00:25:32.694 --> 00:25:33.014 Yes, 502 00:25:33.174 --> 00:25:33.414 yes. 503 00:25:33.555 --> 00:25:36.577 And even for when you have fires, 504 00:25:36.797 --> 00:25:41.340 the cork trees have more resilience than the other trees because they have this protection. 505 00:25:41.780 --> 00:25:41.980 Okay, 506 00:25:42.661 --> 00:25:42.901 right. 507 00:25:43.141 --> 00:25:51.187 So unfortunately we already had a fire here and the trees that had better response after the fire was the cork trees. 508 00:25:51.587 --> 00:25:51.787 Okay. 509 00:25:53.949 --> 00:25:57.351 We're going to focus a little bit more on the arable side of the operation. 510 00:25:57.531 --> 00:25:58.872 You mentioned at the start you're growing... 511 00:25:59.344 --> 00:26:00.165 some grains, 512 00:26:00.265 --> 00:26:01.005 some legumes, 513 00:26:01.066 --> 00:26:03.087 like maybe you could tell us more about that. 514 00:26:03.988 --> 00:26:07.211 So here we are on a plot of our, 515 00:26:08.472 --> 00:26:13.956 what we call the arable spot or arable operations, 516 00:26:14.116 --> 00:26:15.497 because we also grow annuals, 517 00:26:15.537 --> 00:26:18.400 we grow cereals and legumes. 518 00:26:19.180 --> 00:26:24.565 And we created this system of firsts, 519 00:26:25.025 --> 00:26:28.148 well there's never a beginning and an ending because it's a cycle. 520 00:26:28.728 --> 00:26:30.168 But at this point of the cycle, 521 00:26:30.208 --> 00:26:31.489 so for example, 522 00:26:31.629 --> 00:26:33.669 this plot where we are now, 523 00:26:34.430 --> 00:26:40.832 we have grown in the summer of 2024. 524 00:26:41.572 --> 00:26:46.113 We grow millet with the sunflower and the black eyed peas. 525 00:26:47.613 --> 00:26:51.014 The idea was to pick up or the cash crop was millet, 526 00:26:51.495 --> 00:26:53.715 which had run perfectly fine. 527 00:26:54.395 --> 00:26:56.136 And then when we take off the crop, 528 00:26:57.040 --> 00:26:57.681 We normally, 529 00:26:57.921 --> 00:26:59.642 what we do is we put a cover crop. 530 00:26:59.722 --> 00:27:05.167 So we harvest that millet with sunflower and black eyed pea. 531 00:27:06.308 --> 00:27:07.529 We had just harvested in 532 00:27:08.470 --> 00:27:11.092 August. And then in the end of September, 533 00:27:11.873 --> 00:27:13.494 we have installed a cover crop. 534 00:27:14.595 --> 00:27:17.057 We try to put as many species as we can. 535 00:27:17.778 --> 00:27:20.560 We have peas here, 536 00:27:21.741 --> 00:27:22.461 radish, 537 00:27:23.062 --> 00:27:23.642 oats, 538 00:27:24.583 --> 00:27:25.144 clover. 539 00:27:26.084 --> 00:27:26.804 Mustard, 540 00:27:27.605 --> 00:27:28.065 peas, 541 00:27:28.265 --> 00:27:28.645 veg, 542 00:27:29.385 --> 00:27:30.006 ray grass, 543 00:27:30.086 --> 00:27:31.586 triticale, 544 00:27:31.846 --> 00:27:32.787 black oats. 545 00:27:33.467 --> 00:27:37.409 So there's a very big variety of species. 546 00:27:38.009 --> 00:27:39.249 If we think it's needed, 547 00:27:40.290 --> 00:27:43.571 we just smash it part of a cover crop with the animals. 548 00:27:43.731 --> 00:27:47.593 And we do no-till seeding again with the cash crop that we want to do. 549 00:27:48.633 --> 00:27:50.314 Because this plot where we are, 550 00:27:50.514 --> 00:27:54.395 we think there's a lack of still biomass and structure in the soil. 551 00:27:54.435 --> 00:27:55.436 We're just going to pass the... 552 00:27:55.960 --> 00:28:05.163 roller crimper and then we're gonna seed again millet this year with sunflower and pinto beans for cash crop. 553 00:28:05.223 --> 00:28:09.484 So we are no-till for more than 20 years. 554 00:28:09.504 --> 00:28:10.064 We start, 555 00:28:10.764 --> 00:28:13.945 I think we were one of the first persons to buy, 556 00:28:14.785 --> 00:28:16.686 at least there's a brand called Mascio, 557 00:28:16.866 --> 00:28:17.526 it's in Italian. 558 00:28:19.927 --> 00:28:24.428 We and another farm in Portugal we were the first ones to buy no-till cedar in Portugal. 559 00:28:25.100 --> 00:28:26.040 20 years ago already. 560 00:28:26.041 --> 00:28:26.161 Yeah, 561 00:28:26.261 --> 00:28:27.201 22 years ago. 562 00:28:27.901 --> 00:28:37.006 And that has been a really important decision by not plowing the soil and using no-till system. 563 00:28:37.686 --> 00:28:38.847 But here on this side, 564 00:28:39.867 --> 00:28:42.489 because we no longer do monocrops, 565 00:28:42.589 --> 00:28:45.370 we always grow at least two crops at the same time. 566 00:28:45.890 --> 00:28:48.732 Here on this side we can see 567 00:28:53.544 --> 00:28:53.744 Okay, 568 00:28:53.824 --> 00:29:01.306 so here at this side the last crop or the crop that was before this one was 569 00:29:01.886 --> 00:29:13.089 Suden grass with the sunflower and we just have made no-till of triticale with veg. 570 00:29:13.670 --> 00:29:17.711 And here we go for the two crops. 571 00:29:18.491 --> 00:29:21.852 By doing this double cropping what we see is that 572 00:29:24.437 --> 00:29:26.438 One of the most important things is the profitability. 573 00:29:26.518 --> 00:29:33.562 So we have more profitability if we consider the amount of seeds of trichical that we are putting in with the veg, 574 00:29:33.862 --> 00:29:35.983 because then the veg needs like a stick, 575 00:29:36.003 --> 00:29:36.483 a tutor, 576 00:29:36.923 --> 00:29:42.747 to be sustained by and we increase the productivity of the two crops. 577 00:29:43.307 --> 00:29:45.348 And we are giving different signs, 578 00:29:45.548 --> 00:29:46.749 root signs to the soil. 579 00:29:47.069 --> 00:29:49.610 It's not just one root sending information. 580 00:29:49.650 --> 00:29:52.532 We have a legume and you have a cereal. 581 00:29:53.072 --> 00:29:55.035 Three years ago we have abandoned monocrop. 582 00:29:55.195 --> 00:29:56.096 Everything that we grow, 583 00:29:56.757 --> 00:29:58.920 it's double crop or triple cropping. 584 00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:03.122 And the numbers that come out, 585 00:30:04.022 --> 00:30:07.383 it's more profitable to do it this way than to do it the other way. 586 00:30:07.763 --> 00:30:07.984 Okay, 587 00:30:08.064 --> 00:30:10.284 so if you just grew just the one, 588 00:30:10.285 --> 00:30:11.385 the tritical for example, 589 00:30:12.085 --> 00:30:14.966 obviously your tritical production would be higher on its own, 590 00:30:15.026 --> 00:30:16.627 but if you combine the two here, 591 00:30:17.808 --> 00:30:19.508 you actually get more, 592 00:30:19.788 --> 00:30:20.809 because they're complementary. 593 00:30:20.929 --> 00:30:22.029 Or the total operation. 594 00:30:22.109 --> 00:30:22.309 Why? 595 00:30:22.489 --> 00:30:23.050 For example, 596 00:30:23.410 --> 00:30:23.990 in Portugal, 597 00:30:24.530 --> 00:30:26.811 veg has a very important market. 598 00:30:26.951 --> 00:30:28.672 It's a high value. 599 00:30:28.912 --> 00:30:29.312 legume. 600 00:30:30.133 --> 00:30:35.355 So obviously that we decrease if we would do just tritical. 601 00:30:35.575 --> 00:30:38.916 But because we have incorporated another one with high value, 602 00:30:40.817 --> 00:30:46.099 the total value of this operation of this plot is more than if you do just one. 603 00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:49.720 So you produce more in total. 604 00:30:50.221 --> 00:30:50.821 You have, 605 00:30:51.101 --> 00:30:51.401 let's say, 606 00:30:51.501 --> 00:30:57.724 free nitrogen because your your vetch is fixing nitrogen in the soil that the tritical can feed from. 607 00:30:57.964 --> 00:30:58.124 Yeah. 608 00:30:59.225 --> 00:31:00.446 The ecosystem is healthier, 609 00:31:00.447 --> 00:31:03.789 so I'm guessing you reduce drastically your input costs. 610 00:31:03.989 --> 00:31:04.449 Exactly. 611 00:31:04.750 --> 00:31:07.893 So it seems to be a win across the board. 612 00:31:08.053 --> 00:31:09.634 Why don't we see more people doing that? 613 00:31:09.674 --> 00:31:10.535 What's the downside of it? 614 00:31:11.096 --> 00:31:11.536 I don't know. 615 00:31:11.537 --> 00:31:17.281 I think the downside is because industry doesn't want it this way. 616 00:31:17.962 --> 00:31:24.208 Maybe farmers are not prepared to separate seeds or industry doesn't want to separate seeds. 617 00:31:25.236 --> 00:31:27.617 There are some things that I cannot explain or say why, 618 00:31:27.637 --> 00:31:29.717 but it makes me a lot of confusion. 619 00:31:30.537 --> 00:31:34.078 And we are forgetting a very important thing is the amount of biomass that you are growing here. 620 00:31:34.579 --> 00:31:36.279 So after you are harvesting the grain, 621 00:31:36.719 --> 00:31:41.580 the amount of biomass that is going to stay with the straw of the triticale and the straw of the veg, 622 00:31:42.701 --> 00:31:43.341 it's amazing. 623 00:31:43.861 --> 00:31:46.662 When you go and seed your winter cover crop, 624 00:31:46.722 --> 00:31:48.302 you're going to have a lot of good mulching. 625 00:31:48.342 --> 00:31:48.942 For example, 626 00:31:49.563 --> 00:31:54.544 the straw of the veg is really that dark mulching that provides a lot of fungi to the soil. 627 00:31:55.296 --> 00:32:00.858 So it's also that there are other things that are not measurable but are quite important. 628 00:32:01.639 --> 00:32:05.481 So you leave all of the material after you harvest the seeds? 629 00:32:05.482 --> 00:32:06.101 You leave it all? 630 00:32:06.401 --> 00:32:06.721 Yeah, 631 00:32:07.021 --> 00:32:10.043 we just take off the grain and all the material stays here. 632 00:32:10.283 --> 00:32:10.503 Okay, 633 00:32:10.703 --> 00:32:16.145 you never use it to feed your animals or do you grow specific crops to feed the animals sometimes? 634 00:32:16.146 --> 00:32:17.626 We don't, 635 00:32:18.326 --> 00:32:21.668 we just bale what we really need for the season. 636 00:32:22.860 --> 00:32:25.402 And that's going to be never more than 10% 637 00:32:25.482 --> 00:32:28.023 of the residual that we generate. 638 00:32:28.203 --> 00:32:31.966 All that residual stays on the plot while we are working. 639 00:32:32.546 --> 00:32:33.466 That's very important. 640 00:32:33.947 --> 00:32:34.087 Yeah. 641 00:32:35.127 --> 00:32:37.589 You mentioned the separation of the seeds. 642 00:32:37.609 --> 00:32:38.790 Do you have a machine for that? 643 00:32:38.810 --> 00:32:41.151 Or do you work with someone else that does that thing? 644 00:32:41.152 --> 00:32:41.271 No, 645 00:32:41.571 --> 00:32:42.292 we have a machine. 646 00:32:42.372 --> 00:32:43.392 Here in the area, 647 00:32:43.452 --> 00:32:44.993 there's no one that will do that for you. 648 00:32:44.994 --> 00:32:47.455 But it's not an expensive thing for any normal farmer. 649 00:32:47.975 --> 00:32:48.756 We don't have any... 650 00:32:49.952 --> 00:33:06.439 philanthropic help so we're just normal farmers we go to we which we we shouldn't go but we also go to the bank and but it's not a it's like it's a simple thing that any farmer that has some area of serious and wisdom should have and should grow at 651 00:33:06.499 --> 00:33:17.144 least at this system fantastic and so we saw the the two halves that work with one big pivot yeah so what you have one half is do your cash crop the other half is the cover crop and it rotates like that yeah 652 00:33:17.444 --> 00:33:17.604 Yeah, 653 00:33:17.824 --> 00:33:19.885 so after this cache crop, 654 00:33:20.725 --> 00:33:22.246 it's going to come a cover crop. 655 00:33:22.866 --> 00:33:24.107 And then after that cover crop, 656 00:33:24.147 --> 00:33:25.127 it's going to be a cache crop. 657 00:33:25.527 --> 00:33:27.828 And then you always do this kind of rotation. 658 00:33:28.409 --> 00:33:31.770 The only thing that changes is that if we can put the animals, 659 00:33:32.350 --> 00:33:35.552 we at least want to do the animals one year and a half, 660 00:33:35.612 --> 00:33:36.232 one year and a half, 661 00:33:36.272 --> 00:33:40.113 that we want them to integrate the plot that we are working. 662 00:33:40.414 --> 00:33:40.594 Okay. 663 00:33:40.754 --> 00:33:46.156 We don't see our system here without the entering of the animals. 664 00:33:46.256 --> 00:33:47.997 So animals have to run all the farm. 665 00:33:48.577 --> 00:33:51.199 Because of that thing that I explained to you guys, 666 00:33:52.059 --> 00:33:55.641 if we know and we have studied the work of the microbiome of the soil, 667 00:33:55.681 --> 00:33:56.682 by using the animals, 668 00:33:57.042 --> 00:33:59.343 if the animals are improving the work of the microbiome, 669 00:33:59.363 --> 00:34:02.845 if the animals are fastening the cycle of nutrients, 670 00:34:02.846 --> 00:34:04.906 they are providing that you have more phosphorus, 671 00:34:05.947 --> 00:34:06.667 more potassium, 672 00:34:06.747 --> 00:34:07.488 more nitrogen, 673 00:34:07.548 --> 00:34:08.188 more boron, 674 00:34:08.268 --> 00:34:08.808 more zinc, 675 00:34:09.769 --> 00:34:12.850 why don't we integrate animals into cropland? 676 00:34:13.051 --> 00:34:13.171 Yeah, 677 00:34:13.491 --> 00:34:13.671 yeah, 678 00:34:13.672 --> 00:34:13.871 okay. 679 00:34:14.191 --> 00:34:15.452 It's a very important thing for us. 680 00:34:15.652 --> 00:34:19.033 And when you're bringing the animals into your cycle, 681 00:34:19.673 --> 00:34:23.834 are you planting a specific cover crop that you know is good to be grazed? 682 00:34:23.994 --> 00:34:24.435 No, 683 00:34:24.515 --> 00:34:24.695 no, 684 00:34:24.815 --> 00:34:24.935 no, 685 00:34:24.975 --> 00:34:25.635 it doesn't matter. 686 00:34:25.655 --> 00:34:26.975 You can do it so many ways. 687 00:34:26.976 --> 00:34:28.156 You can do just pest them. 688 00:34:29.096 --> 00:34:30.636 It's all about the way you want to manage them. 689 00:34:30.637 --> 00:34:32.017 You can do even bale grazing. 690 00:34:32.057 --> 00:34:37.839 You can throw some straw with some seeds and just make them run over. 691 00:34:38.019 --> 00:34:39.459 You can make like fast movements, 692 00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:40.159 big paddocks, 693 00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:40.699 fast movements. 694 00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:42.940 It depends always on the amount of animals you have. 695 00:34:43.924 --> 00:35:01.189 on the personality you have for moving the fences and what the objective that you wish for your managing animal operation right how has your soil evolved then in the time that you've been doing these practices well i can tell you that we 696 00:35:01.269 --> 00:35:02.850 monitor that we are increasing 697 00:35:03.486 --> 00:35:06.648 On the olive trees and on the annual plantations we are now, 698 00:35:06.929 --> 00:35:07.869 we started with the 699 00:35:08.730 --> 00:35:10.451 1.2% of organic matter, 700 00:35:10.531 --> 00:35:11.472 we are now reached 701 00:35:11.912 --> 00:35:13.393 5% of organic matter. 702 00:35:14.194 --> 00:35:18.437 And here we started with from the tobacco with 0.75, 703 00:35:18.537 --> 00:35:19.238 really low, 704 00:35:19.918 --> 00:35:24.422 and we're now in an average of 2.3, 705 00:35:24.423 --> 00:35:24.682 2.4. 706 00:35:24.683 --> 00:35:24.802 Wow, 707 00:35:24.902 --> 00:35:25.723 that's really really good. 708 00:35:25.724 --> 00:35:25.843 Yeah, 709 00:35:25.923 --> 00:35:26.063 yeah, 710 00:35:26.183 --> 00:35:28.324 for us it's amazing. 711 00:35:29.185 --> 00:35:29.906 Maybe you could... 712 00:35:30.766 --> 00:35:32.107 Tell us a little bit about resilience, 713 00:35:32.127 --> 00:35:35.909 because it's such a key factor now in today's changing climate. 714 00:35:36.149 --> 00:35:39.771 And now having this increase of organic matter, 715 00:35:41.011 --> 00:35:42.092 water holding capacity, 716 00:35:42.952 --> 00:35:43.652 nutrient cycling, 717 00:35:43.653 --> 00:35:45.233 all of these amazing things that you've described. 718 00:35:45.433 --> 00:35:48.155 How does that help your resilience? 719 00:35:48.655 --> 00:35:48.835 Yeah, 720 00:35:48.935 --> 00:35:49.235 okay. 721 00:35:49.835 --> 00:35:51.796 So by working with this residual, 722 00:35:51.896 --> 00:35:54.938 by not touching the soil and incorporating the no-till system, 723 00:35:56.194 --> 00:36:02.496 What you create is the capacity for your system to store carbon so you can feed the soil. 724 00:36:02.936 --> 00:36:03.156 Okay, 725 00:36:03.276 --> 00:36:05.537 this is a never-ending process. 726 00:36:05.557 --> 00:36:07.798 You need to sequester carbon so it can feed the soil, 727 00:36:08.138 --> 00:36:09.578 so that the soil can feed the plant, 728 00:36:09.579 --> 00:36:12.319 so the plant could be more strong during photosynthesis, 729 00:36:12.759 --> 00:36:15.240 because this is what these ones were designed to do. 730 00:36:16.680 --> 00:36:18.601 They are like big solar panels. 731 00:36:19.101 --> 00:36:19.861 And obviously, 732 00:36:20.441 --> 00:36:21.662 working with the residual, 733 00:36:22.242 --> 00:36:22.662 you can... 734 00:36:23.238 --> 00:36:24.959 also store more water. 735 00:36:25.059 --> 00:36:29.143 So even when you do spring summer crops and you irrigate, 736 00:36:29.163 --> 00:36:32.745 you have a soil that is capable to store the water, 737 00:36:32.805 --> 00:36:40.591 you're gonna spend less water and do a better irrigation season for your spring summer crop. 738 00:36:41.892 --> 00:36:42.392 Contrary, 739 00:36:42.452 --> 00:36:45.955 if you are in the winter and you have a bad winter with lack of rain, 740 00:36:46.576 --> 00:36:49.898 the small amount of rain that comes and if you can store it 741 00:36:49.978 --> 00:36:50.418 properly, 742 00:36:50.438 --> 00:36:52.319 it just doesn't vanish in the rain, 743 00:36:52.359 --> 00:36:57.220 just stays on the soil and can feed your plants. 744 00:36:58.900 --> 00:37:05.502 It's also going to give you more profitability to your cereal or legume or whatever operation. 745 00:37:05.622 --> 00:37:13.965 So this is creating resilient systems that they can work with the floods and droughts. 746 00:37:14.045 --> 00:37:17.405 This is the beautiful thing about working in this system. 747 00:37:18.006 --> 00:37:19.286 It's being prepared for everything. 748 00:37:19.750 --> 00:37:37.295 almost and you don't stress when oh my god it's i don't have rain for like for three and four weeks like i'm going it's going to be a disaster okay you don't have rain for three or four weeks but maybe uh because you have such a good prepared soil with the lick with the with the small amount of rain that you are having it's 749 00:37:37.315 --> 00:37:47.578 sufficient for you to obtain the profitability that you want before we move on to the very last part of this episode i wanted to thank you for listening for for watching. 750 00:37:48.574 --> 00:38:05.209 i put so much work and effort into every single episode and it means the world to me that more and more of you keep coming back every week if you enjoyed this episode don't hesitate to show me some love by subscribing to the channel thank you so much what 751 00:38:05.229 --> 00:38:13.296 is one really important lesson that you've you've learned as a farmer that you'd like to pass on to other people always 752 00:38:13.636 --> 00:38:15.838 Try first to understand nature before you do. 753 00:38:16.794 --> 00:38:20.897 anything that concerns or that is connected to farming. 754 00:38:21.838 --> 00:38:24.400 Don't look at the farm as a farming operation. 755 00:38:25.080 --> 00:38:27.002 Look at the farm as an ecosystem. 756 00:38:27.622 --> 00:38:27.802 Okay. 757 00:38:28.623 --> 00:38:31.165 And what's the biggest mistake you've made? 758 00:38:32.466 --> 00:38:33.887 A big mistake that sometimes 759 00:38:34.467 --> 00:38:39.671 I continue to do is give more time to observing. 760 00:38:40.452 --> 00:38:42.513 In a specific case, 761 00:38:42.553 --> 00:38:43.394 to observe soil. 762 00:38:45.291 --> 00:38:49.414 to really understand that it's a living being and he has different behaviors. 763 00:38:49.494 --> 00:38:51.936 It's not always the same every year. 764 00:38:52.197 --> 00:38:56.700 So sometimes not giving that time to observation, 765 00:38:59.443 --> 00:39:07.910 it has been putting me in making bad choices and obviously bad results of whatever I'm doing. 766 00:39:08.770 --> 00:39:09.331 And I still, 767 00:39:09.411 --> 00:39:10.372 sometimes I still do it. 768 00:39:11.072 --> 00:39:12.774 If you could imagine 769 00:39:13.486 --> 00:39:14.587 Just one perfect day. 770 00:39:14.807 --> 00:39:17.048 If you had to live the same day over and over forever, 771 00:39:17.368 --> 00:39:19.569 but you could design it to be the most perfect day for you, 772 00:39:19.689 --> 00:39:20.510 what would it look like? 773 00:39:22.411 --> 00:39:25.752 It would be just spending an all day at the farm, 774 00:39:26.313 --> 00:39:26.533 well, 775 00:39:26.873 --> 00:39:27.573 with my family. 776 00:39:28.093 --> 00:39:28.233 Yeah? 777 00:39:28.794 --> 00:39:34.096 I think it's just like being here and doing, 778 00:39:34.677 --> 00:39:35.057 I don't know, 779 00:39:35.077 --> 00:39:35.357 doing... 780 00:39:37.338 --> 00:39:38.559 the things that I normally, 781 00:39:38.939 --> 00:39:43.321 that I like to do on the farm with tranquility, 782 00:39:44.842 --> 00:39:55.006 but it will be having my sons around me and trying to pass them some of that observation that I was speaking about, 783 00:39:56.067 --> 00:40:02.630 explain to them because they are the future to not to rush. 784 00:40:06.180 --> 00:40:06.761 To be calm, 785 00:40:07.341 --> 00:40:07.781 to see, 786 00:40:08.382 --> 00:40:08.922 to listen, 787 00:40:09.143 --> 00:40:09.603 to feel. 788 00:40:11.104 --> 00:40:17.850 That's a perfect day when you can have all that sensibility of the place where you are. 789 00:40:19.018 --> 00:40:21.079 doing your operation. 790 00:40:21.680 --> 00:40:22.240 That's amazing, 791 00:40:22.380 --> 00:40:22.520 yeah. 792 00:40:22.941 --> 00:40:24.001 And share that with the family. 793 00:40:24.202 --> 00:40:24.542 Yeah, 794 00:40:24.543 --> 00:40:25.002 exactly. 795 00:40:25.723 --> 00:40:26.123 That's great. 796 00:40:28.144 --> 00:40:31.486 I think we're going to close this conversation on this beautiful note. 797 00:40:31.727 --> 00:40:33.708 I think there's no better way to finish this. 798 00:40:34.288 --> 00:40:38.191 It's been an amazing pleasure to visit this beautiful farm. 799 00:40:38.391 --> 00:40:39.131 It's been amazing. 800 00:40:39.392 --> 00:40:40.712 It's been a pleasure to have you. 801 00:40:41.193 --> 00:40:43.314 I'm sorry I didn't have that more time, 802 00:40:43.354 --> 00:40:46.196 but it was also a very crazy week for me. 803 00:40:46.656 --> 00:40:47.036 Yeah, 804 00:40:47.297 --> 00:40:51.759 that was fantastic and I'm super happy that we got to visit the farm to talk to you. 805 00:40:51.819 --> 00:40:55.382 And I'm sure that the people listening and the people watching would appreciate it as well. 806 00:40:56.282 --> 00:40:56.502 Okay, 807 00:40:56.622 --> 00:40:57.243 thank you Raphaël. 808 00:40:57.423 --> 00:40:58.043 Thank you so much. 809 00:41:07.596 --> 00:41:11.618 I just want to mention here that we also recorded an amazing conversation with Diogo, 810 00:41:11.838 --> 00:41:14.119 the R&D manager of the farm. 811 00:41:14.959 --> 00:41:17.240 We get really deep into soil science, 812 00:41:17.300 --> 00:41:18.361 into biodiversity, 813 00:41:18.421 --> 00:41:21.062 into a lot of super interesting topics. 814 00:41:21.542 --> 00:41:28.425 And that conversation was so good that we decided to release it separately as an independent episode, 815 00:41:28.465 --> 00:41:30.686 which will be available in the next few days.