WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.576 --> 00:00:06.119 In order to understand the transition to a regenerative agri-food system in Europe, 2 00:00:06.259 --> 00:00:07.939 we have to understand where we're coming from. 3 00:00:08.600 --> 00:00:10.000 More or less since the Second World War, 4 00:00:10.500 --> 00:00:14.222 we are working from a commodity food system. 5 00:00:14.782 --> 00:00:21.986 That means that we work with relatively few crops that are produced in a more or less uniform way. 6 00:00:22.546 --> 00:00:27.068 So that means that if a harvest in a particular region fails, 7 00:00:27.396 --> 00:00:28.197 It's not a problem. 8 00:00:28.417 --> 00:00:29.418 On the global market, 9 00:00:29.458 --> 00:00:34.762 we can source produce and replace that crop that has failed. 10 00:00:35.883 --> 00:00:41.628 This gives us access to plenty full food at relatively low prices. 11 00:00:41.969 --> 00:00:44.771 We have a lot of choice as consumers and it is very convenient. 12 00:00:45.231 --> 00:00:49.075 This is the great success of the system that we have built over the last 70, 13 00:00:49.435 --> 00:00:50.376 80 years or so. 14 00:00:51.348 --> 00:00:53.929 This system is built on a number of different assumptions. 15 00:00:54.129 --> 00:00:56.690 One of them is sort of natural continuity. 16 00:00:56.810 --> 00:01:00.010 So we have natural cycles that we expect to work. 17 00:01:00.070 --> 00:01:02.011 We are basing this on rainfall, 18 00:01:02.471 --> 00:01:03.551 on biodiversity, 19 00:01:03.852 --> 00:01:04.592 on soils. 20 00:01:05.072 --> 00:01:09.453 These are resources that we treat as infinite. 21 00:01:09.913 --> 00:01:13.574 We can use them and we can use them up for as much as we want. 22 00:01:13.674 --> 00:01:14.815 There will always be more. 23 00:01:15.555 --> 00:01:19.796 The second one is the input that we are using. 24 00:01:20.016 --> 00:01:22.337 Every year when we harvest a crop, 25 00:01:22.837 --> 00:01:30.839 we export nutrients away from the farm and we need to replace those nutrients if we're not working within a circular system. 26 00:01:31.299 --> 00:01:34.220 So in a lot of our current farming, 27 00:01:34.720 --> 00:01:38.341 these nutrients come from mining in one form or another. 28 00:01:38.521 --> 00:01:46.644 So one of our primary inputs is nitrogen and that is usually sourced via the Haber-Bosch process from gas, 29 00:01:46.964 --> 00:01:47.984 fossil fuel. 30 00:01:49.032 --> 00:01:53.136 We also have things like potassium or similar kind of inputs, 31 00:01:53.416 --> 00:01:56.339 and those come from simply mineral mining. 32 00:01:56.859 --> 00:02:06.688 So every year we import nutrients from other places in the world onto the field to replace the nutrients that we have exported, 33 00:02:06.989 --> 00:02:10.252 and we rely on these inputs coming in. 34 00:02:11.853 --> 00:02:14.756 The third one is the generational renewal. 35 00:02:15.168 --> 00:02:19.191 We assume that when a farmer grows old, 36 00:02:19.591 --> 00:02:21.272 there will be a new farmer coming in, 37 00:02:21.352 --> 00:02:27.516 will be taking over the business and will have an interest in continuing producing food in the same way. 38 00:02:28.377 --> 00:02:28.837 And lastly, 39 00:02:28.877 --> 00:02:34.160 the fourth assumption is about the distribution supply chain. 40 00:02:34.220 --> 00:02:35.261 As I was saying earlier, 41 00:02:35.801 --> 00:02:38.083 we assume fungibility. 42 00:02:38.163 --> 00:02:39.704 We assume that if... 43 00:02:40.024 --> 00:02:45.246 a crop fails in one region we can buy it in from the global market from another region. 44 00:02:46.387 --> 00:02:53.450 This is probably the most comprehensive video you'll find anywhere online about the current state of the global food system, 45 00:02:54.090 --> 00:02:58.032 why it's on the verge of collapsing and what we need to do to save it. 46 00:02:58.652 --> 00:02:59.412 I'm not gonna lie, 47 00:02:59.532 --> 00:03:01.993 the situation right now is really quite bad. 48 00:03:02.594 --> 00:03:08.036 But you'll see in this video that there are also plenty of reasons to be super hopeful about the future. 49 00:03:08.712 --> 00:03:10.753 My guest today is Ivo Degen, 50 00:03:11.133 --> 00:03:16.416 and he has been at the very center of the regenerative agriculture movement for the last seven years. 51 00:03:16.957 --> 00:03:17.377 He is, 52 00:03:17.597 --> 00:03:18.357 without a doubt, 53 00:03:18.698 --> 00:03:22.440 one of the most knowledgeable people around on the future of the food system. 54 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:26.042 This episode was made in partnership with Soil Capital. 55 00:03:26.662 --> 00:03:27.182 I'm your host, 56 00:03:27.342 --> 00:03:27.763 Raphael, 57 00:03:28.283 --> 00:03:29.904 and this is the Deep Seed Podcast. 58 00:03:38.814 --> 00:03:43.676 What we have to be aware of is that none of these assumptions still hold up at this point. 59 00:03:44.156 --> 00:03:48.937 What we're entering now is sometimes called by experts degenerative volatility. 60 00:03:49.458 --> 00:03:53.859 That basically means we always had a certain amount of volatility from year to year, 61 00:03:53.899 --> 00:03:54.039 right? 62 00:03:54.040 --> 00:03:55.099 Like sometimes, 63 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:55.559 you know, 64 00:03:55.599 --> 00:03:57.400 we have an earlier or later frost. 65 00:03:58.128 --> 00:03:59.268 Sometimes we have a bit more rain, 66 00:03:59.269 --> 00:04:00.049 a bit less rain, 67 00:04:00.369 --> 00:04:02.969 but generally the volatility was stable. 68 00:04:03.570 --> 00:04:07.071 We have more and more volatility now from year to year. 69 00:04:07.151 --> 00:04:10.892 So one year we might have large floods, 70 00:04:11.152 --> 00:04:12.512 then we might have two years of drought, 71 00:04:12.513 --> 00:04:13.512 then we might have a flood, 72 00:04:13.532 --> 00:04:14.573 then we might have a drought. 73 00:04:15.573 --> 00:04:16.333 And this is, 74 00:04:16.733 --> 00:04:17.253 in the end, 75 00:04:17.954 --> 00:04:21.435 the new normal now that is much more unpredictable. 76 00:04:23.015 --> 00:04:23.875 At the same time, 77 00:04:24.115 --> 00:04:25.436 the baseline is shifting. 78 00:04:25.856 --> 00:04:26.496 So if... 79 00:04:26.696 --> 00:04:28.157 before we had a bit more rain, 80 00:04:28.158 --> 00:04:28.817 a bit less rain, 81 00:04:28.818 --> 00:04:29.397 a bit more rain, 82 00:04:29.978 --> 00:04:31.839 the average was stable. 83 00:04:32.499 --> 00:04:33.920 This is not the case anymore. 84 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:38.022 Our baseline is degenerating throughout the system. 85 00:04:38.422 --> 00:04:43.325 So basically we are in a situation where our system is receiving more and more shocks, 86 00:04:44.246 --> 00:04:46.307 but we have less and less buffers. 87 00:04:46.567 --> 00:04:47.747 So for example, 88 00:04:48.028 --> 00:04:55.792 our soils do not have the capacity to absorb water and hold water in the same way as They used to because we have degraded them. 89 00:04:56.220 --> 00:04:59.643 through our agricultural practice, 90 00:05:00.363 --> 00:05:02.185 leading to a year of drought. 91 00:05:02.305 --> 00:05:03.586 The soil is hardening, 92 00:05:03.606 --> 00:05:05.908 the soil is sort of baking almost, 93 00:05:06.288 --> 00:05:08.610 and then we get very intense rains, 94 00:05:09.070 --> 00:05:13.974 and that rain does not soak in and then sort of brings the soil back alive, 95 00:05:14.375 --> 00:05:18.938 but it hits the baked surface and runs off, 96 00:05:19.239 --> 00:05:22.361 carrying a lot of the fertile topsoil off with it, 97 00:05:22.621 --> 00:05:24.583 which is something that we're seeing all over the world, 98 00:05:24.584 --> 00:05:24.763 And then, 99 00:05:24.764 --> 00:05:25.083 of course, 100 00:05:25.084 --> 00:05:25.604 in regions... 101 00:05:25.948 --> 00:05:27.789 that have this more extremely, 102 00:05:27.849 --> 00:05:28.989 let's say the south of Europe, 103 00:05:29.269 --> 00:05:29.929 this is stronger, 104 00:05:29.949 --> 00:05:33.390 but we're also seeing this more and more in the north of Europe. 105 00:05:33.811 --> 00:05:33.931 So, 106 00:05:34.131 --> 00:05:34.591 of course, 107 00:05:34.791 --> 00:05:36.071 our biodiversity has suffered, 108 00:05:36.091 --> 00:05:37.012 our soils have suffered, 109 00:05:37.013 --> 00:05:40.153 the rainfall patterns are less predictable. 110 00:05:41.253 --> 00:05:44.634 But we are also seeing this in our input systems. 111 00:05:45.074 --> 00:05:50.776 We have a very concrete example right now with renewed conflict in the Middle East. 112 00:05:51.512 --> 00:05:55.934 And it is clear that we will have less access to fossil fuels, 113 00:05:56.594 --> 00:06:01.096 leading to a surge in prices in fertilizer. 114 00:06:01.536 --> 00:06:04.018 We have already experienced this in the 115 00:06:04.358 --> 00:06:10.060 Russian aggression in the Ukraine that led to fertilizer prices in some cases going 116 00:06:10.640 --> 00:06:18.464 10x. So suddenly farmers that might have bought the fertilizer at somewhere around 100 euro suddenly bought them at 1000 euro. 117 00:06:19.464 --> 00:06:19.784 Of course, 118 00:06:19.804 --> 00:06:22.686 this massively impacts what farmers can do. 119 00:06:23.127 --> 00:06:28.090 And we're going to experience this again now in the conflict in the Middle East. 120 00:06:29.151 --> 00:06:31.292 We have more conflicts. 121 00:06:31.612 --> 00:06:33.494 So right now in Europe, 122 00:06:33.974 --> 00:06:36.135 we source a lot of our fertilizer, 123 00:06:36.195 --> 00:06:36.656 for example, 124 00:06:36.676 --> 00:06:37.316 from Egypt. 125 00:06:39.297 --> 00:06:39.658 Before, 126 00:06:39.738 --> 00:06:42.540 we would have balanced that from other countries, 127 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:42.860 such as, 128 00:06:42.861 --> 00:06:43.320 for example, 129 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:43.600 Russia. 130 00:06:44.021 --> 00:06:45.121 But given the sanctions, 131 00:06:45.281 --> 00:06:46.382 we can't do that anymore. 132 00:06:46.383 --> 00:06:48.764 So simply our system has more chokeholds. 133 00:06:49.084 --> 00:06:51.965 And we have less ability to balance this out. 134 00:06:52.826 --> 00:06:54.687 We have our third factor, 135 00:06:55.267 --> 00:06:57.248 which is the generational renewal. 136 00:06:57.728 --> 00:07:01.750 Our farmers are over 60 years old on average in Europe, 137 00:07:02.050 --> 00:07:06.012 which means that a lot of farmers are over 60 years old. 138 00:07:06.633 --> 00:07:09.754 Very few are significantly under 60 years old. 139 00:07:10.655 --> 00:07:12.836 So there isn't a lot of... 140 00:07:13.937 --> 00:07:14.998 new farmers coming in. 141 00:07:15.078 --> 00:07:17.680 We have the case of vegetable production, 142 00:07:17.760 --> 00:07:19.321 horticulture in Germany, 143 00:07:19.481 --> 00:07:20.642 where in all of Germany, 144 00:07:21.063 --> 00:07:25.967 there's about 100 farmers actually being trained in vegetable production, 145 00:07:26.367 --> 00:07:29.029 which is incredible if we think that, 146 00:07:29.030 --> 00:07:29.550 of course, 147 00:07:30.310 --> 00:07:34.114 we need to replace a lot of farmers going out of business in the coming years. 148 00:07:34.454 --> 00:07:35.315 Just one detail, 149 00:07:35.455 --> 00:07:38.317 we have the same in pretty much every production, 150 00:07:38.477 --> 00:07:39.978 every region in Europe. 151 00:07:40.999 --> 00:07:41.400 Finally, 152 00:07:42.108 --> 00:07:46.592 The last assumption on the free flow of material, 153 00:07:47.513 --> 00:07:51.376 we are already seeing cases where breadbaskets, 154 00:07:51.436 --> 00:07:57.961 where regions where a lot of certain crop is being produced that sort of the rest of the world has depended on, 155 00:07:58.662 --> 00:08:05.007 are limiting the exports in years of drought or floods. 156 00:08:05.087 --> 00:08:06.789 So an example for this is 157 00:08:07.349 --> 00:08:10.252 India a couple of years ago experienced a drought. 158 00:08:10.744 --> 00:08:15.367 and severely limited the export of rice. 159 00:08:16.367 --> 00:08:21.330 A lot of the Asian population depends on rice as sort of their staple food. 160 00:08:21.911 --> 00:08:30.576 And so if one of the five major countries producing rice suddenly limits exports and makes sure that rice is produced in a way that is not polluted, 161 00:08:30.644 --> 00:08:33.206 Rice is only available for their own population. 162 00:08:34.708 --> 00:08:36.890 We run into big problems in other regions. 163 00:08:36.910 --> 00:08:42.454 So the World Food Programme already has major issues buying, 164 00:08:42.995 --> 00:08:43.595 for example, 165 00:08:43.716 --> 00:08:53.404 wheat to feed people that cannot afford it themselves because we simply have less supply in the world in general. 166 00:08:53.844 --> 00:08:57.788 So the more that we're going to experience climate change, 167 00:08:58.196 --> 00:09:00.817 the more we're going to experience the drought and flood cycle, 168 00:09:01.357 --> 00:09:05.758 the more we're going to see countries limiting exports, 169 00:09:06.338 --> 00:09:09.559 and so the food is still available for their own population, 170 00:09:10.059 --> 00:09:18.202 but it will be less available for the rest of the world that maybe doesn't produce wheat or rice or potatoes or maize in the same way. 171 00:09:19.282 --> 00:09:26.444 All of this added together means we are moving our conversation about regenerative food systems. 172 00:09:26.704 --> 00:09:30.447 away from one of ecological sustainability, 173 00:09:31.168 --> 00:09:33.089 of sort of doing the right thing, 174 00:09:33.810 --> 00:09:36.272 to one of food security. 175 00:09:37.473 --> 00:09:43.618 The thing we need to be clear about is that agriculture is not just a nice-to-have. 176 00:09:43.758 --> 00:09:46.721 Agriculture is the foundation of our civilization. 177 00:09:47.441 --> 00:09:51.845 Everything that we produce that is not from fossil fuels comes from soil. 178 00:09:51.905 --> 00:09:53.186 So whether we're talking about food, 179 00:09:53.406 --> 00:09:54.507 that obviously comes from soil, 180 00:09:54.948 --> 00:09:55.308 fiber 181 00:09:55.568 --> 00:09:57.529 is produced from plants in the end, 182 00:09:57.769 --> 00:09:58.849 unless it is plastic, 183 00:09:59.250 --> 00:09:59.910 which is fossil. 184 00:10:00.790 --> 00:10:01.371 Medicine, 185 00:10:01.871 --> 00:10:04.092 so also our social coherence, 186 00:10:04.112 --> 00:10:05.292 our rural spaces, 187 00:10:05.812 --> 00:10:08.994 all of that depends on agriculture as a foundation. 188 00:10:09.494 --> 00:10:14.396 So unless we make sure that our agriculture works and works well, 189 00:10:15.176 --> 00:10:17.637 we as a civilization run into a problem. 190 00:10:20.319 --> 00:10:23.540 The positive thing about this is the future already exists. 191 00:10:23.920 --> 00:10:25.141 In any crisis, 192 00:10:25.341 --> 00:10:28.762 there is the seed of transformation. 193 00:10:29.542 --> 00:10:33.764 And it always depends on how we treat the crisis, 194 00:10:33.884 --> 00:10:37.186 whether it's an opportunity for transformation or whether it's just trauma. 195 00:10:39.506 --> 00:10:40.987 What we have is, 196 00:10:41.227 --> 00:10:43.828 let's call it the emergence of biology first systems. 197 00:10:44.168 --> 00:10:52.672 The research on our understanding of soils has improved significantly over the last couple of decades. 198 00:10:53.552 --> 00:10:54.452 And on the other hand, 199 00:10:54.813 --> 00:11:06.778 we have the lived experience from practitioners who have experienced that by managing their ecosystems in a holistic way, 200 00:11:08.038 --> 00:11:11.940 they can replace a lot of these inputs, 201 00:11:11.941 --> 00:11:17.022 a lot of these dependencies with the active biology of their soil. 202 00:11:17.802 --> 00:11:21.424 This is work that has been done by the organic community for... 203 00:11:22.276 --> 00:11:23.017 over a century. 204 00:11:23.197 --> 00:11:27.079 This has been done by the agroecological community for a long time. 205 00:11:27.640 --> 00:11:28.640 And nowadays, 206 00:11:28.701 --> 00:11:31.482 this is something that we often call regenerative agriculture. 207 00:11:31.943 --> 00:11:39.128 So farmers at some point decided to break out of what everybody else did and test something new, 208 00:11:39.848 --> 00:11:41.469 taking on a ton of risk. 209 00:11:44.712 --> 00:11:45.652 In some of these cases, 210 00:11:45.672 --> 00:11:46.553 they were successful, 211 00:11:46.973 --> 00:11:50.696 and they generously decided to share this with the rest of the world. 212 00:11:51.244 --> 00:11:56.528 Other farmers saw these success cases and took them on and sort of adopted them, 213 00:11:56.748 --> 00:11:58.169 applied them to their own context, 214 00:11:58.409 --> 00:11:59.210 adapted them, 215 00:11:59.850 --> 00:12:01.511 and then shared the learnings again. 216 00:12:01.691 --> 00:12:08.036 So we have more and more knowledge about how we can apply biology-first systems, 217 00:12:08.476 --> 00:12:12.218 systems with low inputs but at the same time high outputs. 218 00:12:12.819 --> 00:12:14.920 And for a long time this was, 219 00:12:15.040 --> 00:12:15.260 yeah, 220 00:12:15.421 --> 00:12:15.661 okay, 221 00:12:15.721 --> 00:12:20.144 these are edge cases and maybe this works in this context but this would never work in my context. 222 00:12:20.796 --> 00:12:22.618 But we have more and more research now, 223 00:12:22.638 --> 00:12:24.099 we have more and more data now, 224 00:12:24.419 --> 00:12:27.502 that this is actually working in a lot of different cases, 225 00:12:28.002 --> 00:12:32.846 where farmers again achieve a significantly lower input rate. 226 00:12:32.886 --> 00:12:38.031 So a recent study by the European Alliance for Regenerative Agriculture saw about 70% 227 00:12:38.891 --> 00:12:43.495 reduction in inputs at almost no loss of output. 228 00:12:44.176 --> 00:12:47.299 So the significance of this needs to be stated. 229 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:48.800 We're talking about 230 00:12:49.040 --> 00:12:54.662 a system that is as productive as nothing else in human history, 231 00:12:54.762 --> 00:12:54.902 right? 232 00:12:54.942 --> 00:13:01.944 Like our industrial input-heavy system produces more food than we have ever before in human history. 233 00:13:02.944 --> 00:13:06.165 And what these farmers are managing now is to reduce 70% 234 00:13:06.885 --> 00:13:11.186 of the inputs to the system and still produce the same output, 235 00:13:11.586 --> 00:13:13.267 which is absolutely unbelievable. 236 00:13:13.907 --> 00:13:17.508 So we are starting to see a viable system. 237 00:13:17.808 --> 00:13:21.863 on the horizon as our other system is starting to have problems. 238 00:13:24.500 --> 00:13:26.641 So we sort of have a fork in the road here. 239 00:13:27.221 --> 00:13:33.204 There is an almost knee-jerk reaction on intensification. 240 00:13:33.804 --> 00:13:36.246 It's often now called sustainable intensification. 241 00:13:36.306 --> 00:13:39.207 So we're talking about taking our industrial system, 242 00:13:39.827 --> 00:13:42.689 but reducing its negative impacts, 243 00:13:43.269 --> 00:13:45.350 reducing the input costs, 244 00:13:45.910 --> 00:13:47.091 using more technology, 245 00:13:47.151 --> 00:13:48.431 becoming smarter about it. 246 00:13:49.052 --> 00:13:49.332 Lisa 247 00:13:49.932 --> 00:13:50.052 the 248 00:13:50.632 --> 00:13:54.373 AI-enhanced tools that we're getting more and more in agriculture now. 249 00:13:54.413 --> 00:13:55.734 This is vertical farming, 250 00:13:55.754 --> 00:13:57.814 this is lab-based product, 251 00:13:57.815 --> 00:14:00.935 but it's also precision agriculture in the field itself. 252 00:14:02.435 --> 00:14:07.317 The reaction is just like anything in human psychology. 253 00:14:07.697 --> 00:14:08.877 This is sort of our highway, 254 00:14:09.257 --> 00:14:10.678 our neurological highway. 255 00:14:10.718 --> 00:14:13.618 This is what we have already established as the way to go. 256 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:19.180 Our tendency as a system is to double down on our industrial system. 257 00:14:19.500 --> 00:14:30.310 And so right now there's a certain amount of land that we put aside in the European Union for conservation purposes to support biodiversity and such. 258 00:14:30.711 --> 00:14:31.531 And if, 259 00:14:31.952 --> 00:14:32.272 let's say, 260 00:14:32.352 --> 00:14:35.875 we run into a wheat shortage in the coming decades, 261 00:14:36.396 --> 00:14:38.778 our tendency is going to be, 262 00:14:39.038 --> 00:14:39.159 OK, 263 00:14:39.359 --> 00:14:41.421 let's dig up these conservation areas. 264 00:14:41.461 --> 00:14:44.724 Let's enhance our production area so we can produce more. 265 00:14:45.128 --> 00:14:49.371 to get over this sort of short-term problem that we're having. 266 00:14:50.552 --> 00:14:50.932 Of course, 267 00:14:50.952 --> 00:14:51.993 if we take the longer view, 268 00:14:52.073 --> 00:14:54.134 we know that this is not a one-time thing, 269 00:14:54.414 --> 00:14:59.118 that we're not just running into this weed harvest problem that one time, 270 00:14:59.458 --> 00:15:01.439 but that this is going to happen continuously. 271 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:08.204 So we have an alternative path that is much less used in our brains. 272 00:15:08.624 --> 00:15:10.385 That is what I described before, 273 00:15:10.525 --> 00:15:12.127 our biology first system. 274 00:15:12.207 --> 00:15:12.827 So to say, 275 00:15:13.547 --> 00:15:13.768 okay, 276 00:15:13.928 --> 00:15:14.108 well... 277 00:15:14.388 --> 00:15:15.688 we have a wheat problem, 278 00:15:16.289 --> 00:15:25.792 maybe we have the situation that wheat in a lot of the previous production areas is simply not viable anymore because the climate is changing. 279 00:15:26.332 --> 00:15:31.053 And so it makes sense to look at different crops that actually make sense here. 280 00:15:31.533 --> 00:15:36.175 So we would have to trial new seed varieties. 281 00:15:36.215 --> 00:15:39.036 We would have to maybe trial new types of food, 282 00:15:39.296 --> 00:15:40.336 new production areas. 283 00:15:40.744 --> 00:15:48.268 We might want to go away from a monocrop annual production and go towards a perennial system, 284 00:15:48.589 --> 00:15:51.930 or at least go towards a silvo-arable system, 285 00:15:51.990 --> 00:15:54.812 meaning the integration of trees in, 286 00:15:55.232 --> 00:15:55.573 let's say, 287 00:15:56.153 --> 00:15:58.074 a wheat field or a maze or similar. 288 00:15:59.755 --> 00:16:02.336 This is not intuitive to us. 289 00:16:03.977 --> 00:16:04.898 As a whole system, 290 00:16:05.098 --> 00:16:08.340 our intuition is to double down on what we already know works. 291 00:16:39.736 --> 00:16:50.025 So the question that is then often asked is if on the one hand we have a failing industrial system and on the other hand we have a promising alternative approach, 292 00:16:50.985 --> 00:16:53.848 why is not everybody doing this already if this is so great? 293 00:16:55.149 --> 00:17:00.333 We do have ample data that it is the more resilient, 294 00:17:00.373 --> 00:17:02.395 it is the more profitable solution. 295 00:17:02.915 --> 00:17:08.820 In many cases it is also on the same level of yield. 296 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:14.881 What we need to be aware of is that we have a number of structural barriers. 297 00:17:14.941 --> 00:17:18.442 So we do not have an issue of farmer motivation, 298 00:17:18.662 --> 00:17:21.363 even though this is sort of what a lot of people assume. 299 00:17:21.403 --> 00:17:26.744 We need to make farmers or we need to convince farmers or we need to incentivize farmers. 300 00:17:27.045 --> 00:17:27.885 That's not the case. 301 00:17:29.005 --> 00:17:34.407 If you think that what we're talking about is a system of ecological, 302 00:17:34.507 --> 00:17:35.827 economic and social health, 303 00:17:36.367 --> 00:17:39.528 this is in the intrinsic interest of a farmer in principle. 304 00:17:41.208 --> 00:17:44.950 It's neither really a knowledge problem in and of itself. 305 00:17:45.150 --> 00:17:46.371 Farmers often, 306 00:17:46.751 --> 00:17:47.872 not in all cases, 307 00:17:47.952 --> 00:17:52.154 but very often already know what needs to be done locally. 308 00:17:53.255 --> 00:17:54.756 The problem is structural. 309 00:17:55.396 --> 00:17:59.098 The farmers are locked into a specific system, 310 00:17:59.938 --> 00:18:02.220 whether or not this is what they want to do. 311 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:06.282 We have looked extensively into this over the last couple of months, 312 00:18:06.322 --> 00:18:08.623 and we have identified six or seven barriers. 313 00:18:09.183 --> 00:18:09.824 The first one... 314 00:18:10.384 --> 00:18:11.205 is land tenure, 315 00:18:11.305 --> 00:18:15.848 or basically the security of access to that land, 316 00:18:16.028 --> 00:18:19.831 access to farming that specific plot of land. 317 00:18:20.872 --> 00:18:23.133 This goes directly to the motivation question. 318 00:18:23.694 --> 00:18:30.378 If we say that regenerative management is about increasing the ecological, 319 00:18:30.458 --> 00:18:30.839 economic, 320 00:18:30.859 --> 00:18:33.581 and social health of that farm, 321 00:18:33.621 --> 00:18:35.562 of that land over time. 322 00:18:36.743 --> 00:18:38.084 This only works if 323 00:18:38.951 --> 00:18:40.992 I farm that land over time. 324 00:18:41.292 --> 00:18:44.314 If my lease contract is only five years long, 325 00:18:44.394 --> 00:18:47.896 which is the case for many leased plots of land, 326 00:18:48.957 --> 00:18:50.818 the interest is simply not there. 327 00:18:51.779 --> 00:18:56.422 I will not work to plant trees that take 10 years to grow. 328 00:18:56.582 --> 00:19:00.644 I will not improve the carbon that takes 5 to 10 years to accumulate, 329 00:19:01.545 --> 00:19:02.846 improve the biodiversity, 330 00:19:02.886 --> 00:19:03.006 etc. 331 00:19:03.286 --> 00:19:04.346 of that plot of land. 332 00:19:05.447 --> 00:19:16.074 very likely in five years the landlord is going to increase the price and I cannot afford it anymore as is the case in many areas where land is being leased. 333 00:19:16.835 --> 00:19:18.536 So land tenure, 334 00:19:18.856 --> 00:19:27.942 the long-term access to land is basically the enabling factor for regenerative management. 335 00:19:28.683 --> 00:19:34.867 The second key barrier that is there right now is advisory. 336 00:19:35.671 --> 00:19:43.658 Right now we have an advisory model that couples inputs and advisory, 337 00:19:44.259 --> 00:19:56.409 meaning farmers often receive the advisory for free and the advisor is paid by a percentage of the product that they sell. 338 00:19:56.669 --> 00:19:59.332 So let's say the advisor has the question, 339 00:19:59.392 --> 00:20:03.015 how do I improve my corn production this year? 340 00:20:04.095 --> 00:20:12.981 Or how do I avoid this disease that has come in new in my corn or in my hazelnuts or in my wheat? 341 00:20:14.943 --> 00:20:17.104 And so the advisor is going to come in and is going to say, 342 00:20:17.184 --> 00:20:17.344 well, 343 00:20:17.445 --> 00:20:17.725 you know, 344 00:20:18.125 --> 00:20:19.446 you can do this and this and this. 345 00:20:19.566 --> 00:20:28.092 And here's that great product that you can use that is going to decrease the pest problem. 346 00:20:29.413 --> 00:20:32.115 and the advisor gets paid as a percentage of... 347 00:20:33.055 --> 00:20:37.177 the sale of that product to the farmer by the input company. 348 00:20:38.698 --> 00:20:45.361 So obviously this does not lead to a decrease of inputs on the farm. 349 00:20:45.381 --> 00:20:49.143 It does not lead to a decrease of dependency of the farm, 350 00:20:49.563 --> 00:20:55.606 therefore does not lead to an improvement of the ecological and economic health of the farm. 351 00:20:56.246 --> 00:20:57.507 So it is crucial. 352 00:20:57.867 --> 00:21:07.955 that farmers have access to independent and need to understand the context of the farm well enough to say, 353 00:21:08.456 --> 00:21:08.976 for you, 354 00:21:09.116 --> 00:21:10.497 for the person that you are, 355 00:21:10.617 --> 00:21:11.998 for the farm that you have, 356 00:21:12.099 --> 00:21:13.119 for the soil that you have, 357 00:21:13.380 --> 00:21:14.240 for the climate that you have, 358 00:21:14.241 --> 00:21:15.481 and for the climate that is coming, 359 00:21:16.502 --> 00:21:18.544 what makes sense to do is this. 360 00:21:20.225 --> 00:21:22.387 The third barrier. 361 00:21:23.091 --> 00:21:25.033 is the public space. 362 00:21:25.173 --> 00:21:28.375 So this is both regulation and subsidies. 363 00:21:29.296 --> 00:21:32.838 There is the part of what farmers are allowed or not allowed to do, 364 00:21:33.018 --> 00:21:37.742 and then there is what farmers receive subsidies for or do not receive subsidies for. 365 00:21:38.442 --> 00:21:40.584 An example for this is in the livestock sector. 366 00:21:41.225 --> 00:21:48.730 A lot of the regulation in Europe for the livestock sector comes from the assumption that livestock is produced in large industrial systems. 367 00:21:49.190 --> 00:21:49.891 And that... 368 00:21:50.151 --> 00:21:51.472 in practice makes it very, 369 00:21:51.532 --> 00:21:54.833 very difficult or often impossible to run smaller, 370 00:21:55.053 --> 00:21:57.054 more diversified livestock operations. 371 00:21:58.594 --> 00:21:59.335 On the other hand, 372 00:21:59.815 --> 00:22:02.436 we have our subsidy system. 373 00:22:03.156 --> 00:22:04.937 And in many cases, 374 00:22:05.037 --> 00:22:11.320 a region would have over the last decades run a specific crop. 375 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:18.763 So let's say there's a region in southern Spain that has focused on arable crops, 376 00:22:18.803 --> 00:22:19.703 so let's say wheat. 377 00:22:20.523 --> 00:22:21.104 for example, 378 00:22:21.105 --> 00:22:22.984 so crops that only last for one season. 379 00:22:23.685 --> 00:22:24.225 But it's a very, 380 00:22:24.305 --> 00:22:25.186 very dry region. 381 00:22:25.386 --> 00:22:28.227 It doesn't really make sense to focus on that particular crop. 382 00:22:28.247 --> 00:22:30.808 It makes more sense to go for silvopasture system, 383 00:22:30.908 --> 00:22:34.370 meaning we have trees and animals integrated with each other. 384 00:22:34.890 --> 00:22:37.832 They can withstand sort of the drought situations much better. 385 00:22:38.492 --> 00:22:39.272 But in that region, 386 00:22:40.333 --> 00:22:40.893 historically, 387 00:22:41.033 --> 00:22:41.693 this wasn't done. 388 00:22:42.074 --> 00:22:42.474 Therefore, 389 00:22:42.574 --> 00:22:44.735 there are no subsidies for this. 390 00:22:45.411 --> 00:22:47.072 Another case is regions such as 391 00:22:47.913 --> 00:22:49.354 Germany has been for a long time, 392 00:22:49.355 --> 00:22:50.836 and I think in many cases still is, 393 00:22:51.476 --> 00:23:03.286 where planting trees on fields means your status changes and your field becomes a forest and you lose the agricultural subsidy altogether. 394 00:23:03.786 --> 00:23:11.953 So these are cases where sort of the way that subsidies are built impedes the implementation of practices that actually already really make sense, 395 00:23:12.393 --> 00:23:13.715 But no farmer is going to... 396 00:23:14.391 --> 00:23:16.212 take on the investment for, 397 00:23:16.292 --> 00:23:16.752 for example, 398 00:23:16.772 --> 00:23:17.533 planting trees, 399 00:23:18.173 --> 00:23:24.276 if at the same time it also means they lose the funding that they're getting through subsidies. 400 00:23:25.256 --> 00:23:30.339 The next barrier on a similar level is the offtake structure, 401 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:33.500 meaning who does the farmer sell to? 402 00:23:35.121 --> 00:23:35.942 Very practically, 403 00:23:36.382 --> 00:23:36.642 again, 404 00:23:36.802 --> 00:23:38.883 we have built a commodity system. 405 00:23:39.491 --> 00:23:42.252 So for a lot of farmers in Europe, 406 00:23:42.972 --> 00:23:51.394 we have a system in which they produce pretty much a single crop and sell that crop to a single offtaker. 407 00:23:52.315 --> 00:23:53.175 And why that is, 408 00:23:53.475 --> 00:23:55.996 is the processing infrastructure. 409 00:23:56.596 --> 00:24:07.919 So you have to think that the raw product that comes from the farm needs to be processed often in several steps before it can be sold in the supermarket to the consumer. 410 00:24:08.367 --> 00:24:09.167 There are some cases, 411 00:24:09.228 --> 00:24:10.428 like for example vegetables, 412 00:24:10.929 --> 00:24:13.090 that can often be sold directly, 413 00:24:13.290 --> 00:24:13.510 right? 414 00:24:13.530 --> 00:24:21.595 So this is why market gardeners would typically try to be close to cities so they can sell directly to consumers. 415 00:24:21.895 --> 00:24:23.576 But if we're talking about grains, 416 00:24:24.156 --> 00:24:28.138 they are very rarely sold as grains to the consumers themselves. 417 00:24:28.158 --> 00:24:30.780 They have to at least be milled into flour. 418 00:24:32.641 --> 00:24:36.143 And so what a farmer in a particular region can sell, 419 00:24:36.855 --> 00:24:41.559 often depends on whether or not there is processing infrastructure for that particular product. 420 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:43.761 So if a region, 421 00:24:43.861 --> 00:24:44.862 as I was saying earlier, 422 00:24:45.603 --> 00:24:46.464 in the south of Spain, 423 00:24:46.924 --> 00:24:50.547 would have primarily produced wheat for the last couple of decades, 424 00:24:51.188 --> 00:24:57.994 then you would have a wheat mill to create flowers from it relatively close. 425 00:24:58.694 --> 00:25:03.679 If now you start holistic management with cattle in that region, 426 00:25:04.271 --> 00:25:06.072 You simply don't have an abattoir, 427 00:25:06.112 --> 00:25:11.054 you don't have a place to bring the cattle to be butchered and to be processed. 428 00:25:11.694 --> 00:25:20.998 And so the farmer has to transport the animals for sometimes 500 or more kilometers to be processed, 429 00:25:21.238 --> 00:25:24.939 making it much less economical to produce this particular crop. 430 00:25:26.760 --> 00:25:29.701 This is also the case if we're talking about diversification. 431 00:25:29.761 --> 00:25:33.663 So if we're talking about an arable farm that would have grown a single crop, 432 00:25:34.367 --> 00:25:34.707 Earlier, 433 00:25:35.408 --> 00:25:36.408 we are now saying, 434 00:25:36.468 --> 00:25:36.608 well, 435 00:25:36.609 --> 00:25:38.569 it would make more sense to have cover crops, 436 00:25:38.589 --> 00:25:39.930 to integrate more legumes, 437 00:25:39.931 --> 00:25:42.191 to have more diversified rotation, 438 00:25:42.512 --> 00:25:43.892 to have longer rotations. 439 00:25:44.253 --> 00:25:44.373 So, 440 00:25:44.873 --> 00:25:45.113 you know, 441 00:25:45.114 --> 00:25:47.154 in some cases we're talking about one, 442 00:25:47.194 --> 00:25:47.354 two, 443 00:25:47.454 --> 00:25:47.674 three, 444 00:25:47.734 --> 00:25:47.875 four, 445 00:25:47.955 --> 00:25:48.155 five, 446 00:25:48.175 --> 00:25:48.295 six, 447 00:25:48.335 --> 00:25:48.555 seven, 448 00:25:48.695 --> 00:25:52.157 eight different crops that are in a rotation. 449 00:25:52.517 --> 00:25:54.538 That would be great for the soil in many cases. 450 00:25:55.299 --> 00:26:01.802 But that means you have to have either an offtaker that has an interest in all of these different crops, 451 00:26:02.102 --> 00:26:03.103 in all of these different... 452 00:26:05.304 --> 00:26:05.745 outputs, 453 00:26:06.325 --> 00:26:13.030 or you have to have a lot of different ones in that region that can process the product and that can sell the product, 454 00:26:13.330 --> 00:26:15.531 which in many cases simply isn't the case anymore. 455 00:26:15.912 --> 00:26:16.972 So again, 456 00:26:17.313 --> 00:26:23.737 we have a structural lock-in where we have invested in particular infrastructure, 457 00:26:25.058 --> 00:26:25.438 such as, 458 00:26:25.458 --> 00:26:25.878 for example, 459 00:26:25.879 --> 00:26:26.179 a mill, 460 00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:28.020 that is difficult to change. 461 00:26:28.120 --> 00:26:29.181 It's not easy, 462 00:26:29.281 --> 00:26:29.921 it's not cheap, 463 00:26:29.941 --> 00:26:31.742 it's not fast to uh 464 00:26:32.543 --> 00:26:48.055 build an abattoir and a mill and a legume processing facility etc in a region to make this kind of diversification possible this is one of the major problems another one is simply the logic 465 00:26:49.096 --> 00:26:58.583 of of offtake very simply you have traders that buy the product from Hmm. 466 00:26:58.983 --> 00:27:01.244 the farmers or from so-called aggregators. 467 00:27:01.264 --> 00:27:02.625 They're often farmer cooperatives, 468 00:27:02.645 --> 00:27:09.447 so people that sort of buy up all the grains or the legumes or the meat from a particular area. 469 00:27:09.988 --> 00:27:16.370 And they sell to a trader that then sort of has a larger aggregation. 470 00:27:17.911 --> 00:27:18.311 And of course, 471 00:27:18.312 --> 00:27:22.373 they have an interest in buying as cheaply as possible and selling as expensively as possible. 472 00:27:23.293 --> 00:27:27.895 And so you have an actor within that system that 473 00:27:28.195 --> 00:27:33.660 effectively have an interest in price volatility. 474 00:27:35.001 --> 00:27:36.983 So let's say we are producing wheat. 475 00:27:37.943 --> 00:27:41.466 The traders would often have the infrastructure, 476 00:27:41.526 --> 00:27:42.687 physical infrastructure, 477 00:27:43.008 --> 00:27:44.789 to store wheat, 478 00:27:45.430 --> 00:27:45.830 corn, 479 00:27:46.791 --> 00:27:47.171 peas, 480 00:27:47.772 --> 00:27:53.757 sort of durable product for the time when the prices are high. 481 00:27:54.838 --> 00:27:55.979 And that's just good business. 482 00:27:56.875 --> 00:27:57.975 At the same time, 483 00:27:58.355 --> 00:28:00.776 it creates a major problem in the supply chain, 484 00:28:00.876 --> 00:28:01.736 as we have talked about. 485 00:28:02.317 --> 00:28:16.720 So there are several sort of structural issues within our given supply chains that make it likely that the farmer is going to produce a single crop and is going to get the lowest possible price. 486 00:28:17.781 --> 00:28:17.901 If, 487 00:28:17.961 --> 00:28:18.721 on the other hand, 488 00:28:19.101 --> 00:28:23.822 we have aggregation structures that are farmer-owned or, 489 00:28:24.483 --> 00:28:24.923 in a way, 490 00:28:25.063 --> 00:28:25.943 purpose-owned, 491 00:28:26.495 --> 00:28:30.276 that make it their mission to support the farmers, 492 00:28:31.296 --> 00:28:33.877 several farmers in a region could come together and say, 493 00:28:34.237 --> 00:28:36.178 we will buy the physical infrastructure, 494 00:28:36.278 --> 00:28:37.358 we will grow, 495 00:28:37.538 --> 00:28:42.439 we will build the physical infrastructure to take all of our harvest, 496 00:28:42.579 --> 00:28:43.960 put it in our silo, 497 00:28:44.460 --> 00:28:46.640 and then sell it when the price is good for us. 498 00:28:47.241 --> 00:28:55.183 And we will have the capital to give the farmers to withstand that sort of period. 499 00:28:57.095 --> 00:29:02.221 But that really takes coordination as a region, 500 00:29:02.701 --> 00:29:09.989 and it takes the building of physical infrastructure that will make it likely to be possible. 501 00:29:10.762 --> 00:29:13.564 Next barrier that I already mentioned earlier, 502 00:29:14.284 --> 00:29:16.626 over the last decades, 503 00:29:16.646 --> 00:29:17.407 70, 504 00:29:17.567 --> 00:29:18.787 80 years, 505 00:29:19.188 --> 00:29:24.151 we have incentivized farmers to move away from a low input, 506 00:29:24.431 --> 00:29:25.572 low output system, 507 00:29:25.792 --> 00:29:29.635 as was sort of the norm in most of Europe before the Second World War, 508 00:29:30.175 --> 00:29:32.116 towards a high input, 509 00:29:32.256 --> 00:29:33.197 high output system. 510 00:29:33.337 --> 00:29:39.541 meaning that rather than working with a system that... 511 00:29:42.143 --> 00:29:43.903 produces what the land can give. 512 00:29:44.544 --> 00:29:46.465 We bring in nitrogen, 513 00:29:46.545 --> 00:29:50.886 we bring in high production seeds, 514 00:29:51.307 --> 00:29:52.927 we bring in pesticides from outside, 515 00:29:53.207 --> 00:29:57.089 and we can produce a lot of food with those kind of inputs. 516 00:29:57.569 --> 00:30:00.430 So we have moved from our low input, 517 00:30:00.571 --> 00:30:02.531 low output system to a high input, 518 00:30:02.972 --> 00:30:03.892 high output system. 519 00:30:05.012 --> 00:30:08.494 What this means is that at the beginning of a cycle, 520 00:30:09.026 --> 00:30:10.427 The farmer takes on debt, 521 00:30:11.748 --> 00:30:13.488 so to buy seed, 522 00:30:13.829 --> 00:30:17.631 fertilizer and pesticides, 523 00:30:19.392 --> 00:30:21.413 to then produce a lot of food, 524 00:30:21.653 --> 00:30:23.274 to then make a profit hopefully, 525 00:30:23.474 --> 00:30:26.396 pay off the debt and have some money left over. 526 00:30:28.237 --> 00:30:33.219 This debt is paying off much less often than it used to. 527 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:36.061 In some cases in the past this was very successful. 528 00:30:36.401 --> 00:30:38.142 In some cases this is still successful. 529 00:30:38.786 --> 00:30:40.527 But in more and more cases, 530 00:30:40.687 --> 00:30:42.307 this is not successful anymore, 531 00:30:42.807 --> 00:30:47.108 because if you take on a lot of debt to grow your wheat again, 532 00:30:48.149 --> 00:30:49.669 and you have a hailstorm, 533 00:30:50.289 --> 00:30:51.429 an untimely rain, 534 00:30:52.150 --> 00:30:52.670 frost, 535 00:30:53.370 --> 00:30:53.810 drought, 536 00:30:54.590 --> 00:30:55.371 any of these, 537 00:30:55.971 --> 00:31:01.992 or if a war is happening and the fertilizer prices are going up because the gas prices are going up, 538 00:31:02.853 --> 00:31:04.613 this bet does not work out anymore. 539 00:31:04.813 --> 00:31:07.894 And you're stuck at the end with... 540 00:31:08.366 --> 00:31:08.706 the debt. 541 00:31:10.108 --> 00:31:16.714 So a lot of our high input farms have a high debt load already. 542 00:31:18.175 --> 00:31:25.742 What is important to add to this is that a lot of these farmers have been incentivized over the last decade by us, 543 00:31:26.122 --> 00:31:26.303 right, 544 00:31:26.943 --> 00:31:27.884 by public support, 545 00:31:28.224 --> 00:31:30.246 by public pressure sometimes, 546 00:31:30.306 --> 00:31:31.968 by public incentives, 547 00:31:32.528 --> 00:31:34.270 to invest in infrastructure. 548 00:31:34.450 --> 00:31:37.472 So this could be industrial livestock stables, 549 00:31:37.492 --> 00:31:38.833 so the pig, 550 00:31:38.873 --> 00:31:39.473 the poultry, 551 00:31:41.574 --> 00:31:43.615 the cattle stables, 552 00:31:43.675 --> 00:31:49.358 the industrial agriculture that we have such a big moral issue with, 553 00:31:49.438 --> 00:31:51.460 but of course also ecological. 554 00:31:52.840 --> 00:31:54.841 We have incentivized farmers to build those. 555 00:31:54.861 --> 00:31:56.442 We have asked farmers to build those. 556 00:31:57.523 --> 00:31:58.203 On the other hand, 557 00:31:58.223 --> 00:31:59.104 we have tractors, 558 00:31:59.144 --> 00:31:59.984 we have machinery, 559 00:32:00.124 --> 00:32:02.606 we have all of these sort of assets. 560 00:32:03.026 --> 00:32:05.887 that are needed for successful industrial agriculture. 561 00:32:06.607 --> 00:32:10.728 And farmers have followed these incentives and have said, 562 00:32:10.729 --> 00:32:10.848 OK, 563 00:32:11.028 --> 00:32:11.168 well, 564 00:32:11.288 --> 00:32:16.390 if I get a really good loan for this by the bank funded by the public, 565 00:32:17.110 --> 00:32:24.552 I will build this 3 million euro pig farm and then I will produce a tongue and that will allow me to pay that off. 566 00:32:24.652 --> 00:32:26.672 And later in my career as a farmer, 567 00:32:26.752 --> 00:32:28.433 I'm going to be making a lot of money. 568 00:32:29.293 --> 00:32:29.493 Now, 569 00:32:29.793 --> 00:32:32.374 those assets are stranded. 570 00:32:33.082 --> 00:32:35.264 If that system isn't working out anymore, 571 00:32:35.744 --> 00:32:40.148 if every year the farmer produces but ends up with a loss, 572 00:32:40.869 --> 00:32:42.570 then at some point you have the 3 million, 573 00:32:42.571 --> 00:32:43.371 you have the stable, 574 00:32:43.811 --> 00:32:45.593 but it doesn't make sense to continue anymore. 575 00:32:45.993 --> 00:32:47.934 So the farmer ends up with infrastructure, 576 00:32:47.974 --> 00:32:52.698 ends up with debt and can't move out of this anymore because they still have to pay off the debt. 577 00:32:53.499 --> 00:32:58.523 And so this is a structural lock-in that if the farmer knows that it is insane to continue this, 578 00:32:58.524 --> 00:32:59.524 it does not make sense, 579 00:33:00.024 --> 00:33:01.666 they might still have to do it. 580 00:33:02.050 --> 00:33:03.271 Simply because 581 00:33:03.731 --> 00:33:04.392 20 years ago, 582 00:33:04.692 --> 00:33:07.635 they have taken that decision that we have asked them to take, 583 00:33:07.835 --> 00:33:10.277 that we have educated them into taking. 584 00:33:10.977 --> 00:33:18.824 Our sixth barrier is one that is entirely under-discussed and it is extremely influential. 585 00:33:19.264 --> 00:33:23.027 And that is our social and community identity. 586 00:33:24.088 --> 00:33:27.451 Agriculture is something that has a lot to do with identity. 587 00:33:28.532 --> 00:33:29.993 It's what farmers do all day. 588 00:33:30.073 --> 00:33:30.874 It's what they are. 589 00:33:31.274 --> 00:33:32.094 parents might have done, 590 00:33:32.095 --> 00:33:33.635 it's what their grandparents might have done. 591 00:33:33.955 --> 00:33:35.516 They might have done it in the same way. 592 00:33:35.616 --> 00:33:40.137 So there is a lot of identification with the way that agriculture is being done. 593 00:33:41.017 --> 00:33:50.141 So a choice to move away from a particular production system is not just a casual decision, 594 00:33:50.641 --> 00:33:53.722 it's something that says something about who I am as a person. 595 00:33:54.466 --> 00:33:56.648 Not only does it say something about who I am as a person, 596 00:33:56.728 --> 00:33:59.470 it also says something about what I think about my neighbors. 597 00:33:59.570 --> 00:34:01.812 It says something about what I think about my family, 598 00:34:02.193 --> 00:34:02.853 my ancestors. 599 00:34:03.474 --> 00:34:04.354 So if, 600 00:34:04.995 --> 00:34:05.636 as a farmer, 601 00:34:05.816 --> 00:34:10.320 I am deciding to do something differently to what everybody else is doing, 602 00:34:11.541 --> 00:34:15.804 implicitly it is understood that I'm saying what you are doing is wrong. 603 00:34:16.325 --> 00:34:18.527 What my parents have done is wrong. 604 00:34:19.768 --> 00:34:22.390 But that leads to major conflicts in the family. 605 00:34:23.206 --> 00:34:24.108 And because, 606 00:34:24.368 --> 00:34:24.848 of course, 607 00:34:24.949 --> 00:34:26.811 it's a judgment about the last 50, 608 00:34:26.971 --> 00:34:30.455 60 years of the father farming. 609 00:34:31.236 --> 00:34:35.982 So even if the practices make sense economically, 610 00:34:36.222 --> 00:34:42.550 let's say even all of these other barriers weren't there to say I will farm differently might. 611 00:34:43.378 --> 00:34:47.762 mean that the farmer is shut out from their local peer group. 612 00:34:48.542 --> 00:34:51.445 It might mean that they can't go to the local bar anymore, 613 00:34:51.485 --> 00:34:53.887 that they can't meet their old friends anymore. 614 00:34:54.267 --> 00:34:54.567 And this, 615 00:34:54.587 --> 00:34:55.108 of course, 616 00:34:55.268 --> 00:35:00.973 is a major factor influencing decision-making that is completely overlooked. 617 00:35:01.553 --> 00:35:09.620 So the existence of regenerative management peer groups is crucial for farmers, 618 00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:12.182 as one farmer once told me to know, 619 00:35:12.730 --> 00:35:13.611 I am not crazy, 620 00:35:13.991 --> 00:35:14.731 I'm a pioneer. 621 00:35:15.632 --> 00:35:19.454 Because it's really something that they are being told, 622 00:35:19.854 --> 00:35:20.414 you are crazy, 623 00:35:20.474 --> 00:35:21.335 this will never work, 624 00:35:21.415 --> 00:35:22.515 you're destroying your parents' 625 00:35:22.575 --> 00:35:22.996 legacy, 626 00:35:24.036 --> 00:35:24.316 you know, 627 00:35:25.597 --> 00:35:27.658 why are you criticizing our way of life? 628 00:35:27.718 --> 00:35:29.199 We have always done things like this. 629 00:35:29.839 --> 00:35:30.920 And for this farmer to say, 630 00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:38.584 I will walk out from this way of life and I will walk on on that journey when everybody else tells them not to, 631 00:35:39.945 --> 00:35:40.865 is something that really, 632 00:35:40.945 --> 00:35:42.126 really takes a lot of guts. 633 00:35:42.755 --> 00:35:46.353 And it takes a community of support around them. 634 00:36:33.078 --> 00:36:41.325 So if we look at these six major barriers that affect different types of farms differently, 635 00:36:41.365 --> 00:36:44.208 but they are all sort of present in this conversation, 636 00:36:44.989 --> 00:36:50.193 it's clear that not one of these barriers can really be moved independently. 637 00:36:50.754 --> 00:36:51.855 So as an example, 638 00:36:52.556 --> 00:36:59.422 the community pressure might be there because the head of the local cooperative that also runs the bar Yeah. 639 00:36:59.842 --> 00:37:03.844 might also be the representative of the input company in that particular area. 640 00:37:04.345 --> 00:37:05.345 So by saying, 641 00:37:05.425 --> 00:37:06.886 I will move away from inputs, 642 00:37:07.686 --> 00:37:08.167 you have this. 643 00:37:08.227 --> 00:37:11.889 So all of these things are interdependent. 644 00:37:12.569 --> 00:37:16.591 And the important thing to understand is that this is not an accident. 645 00:37:16.711 --> 00:37:18.532 It is often said that the system is broken. 646 00:37:19.013 --> 00:37:19.933 This is not the case. 647 00:37:20.013 --> 00:37:22.615 The system is working exactly as we designed it. 648 00:37:22.635 --> 00:37:23.955 We built the system this way, 649 00:37:24.335 --> 00:37:26.477 and the system has immense resilience, 650 00:37:26.877 --> 00:37:28.738 which is what we wanted when we built it. 651 00:37:29.830 --> 00:37:35.414 We built it in a different context and we built it under the assumptions that are not true anymore. 652 00:37:36.035 --> 00:37:37.116 So the system is working. 653 00:37:37.996 --> 00:37:42.780 Now we need to design a different one because the context has changed that we are in. 654 00:37:44.721 --> 00:37:47.383 None of these can be changed independently. 655 00:37:48.024 --> 00:37:51.466 So to build a new innovation, 656 00:37:51.486 --> 00:37:56.630 a new company that provides an alternative to synthetic inputs, 657 00:37:57.274 --> 00:37:59.856 is difficult because we don't have the regulation for it. 658 00:38:00.717 --> 00:38:08.622 We don't have the regulation for it because we have the influence of major farming lobbies that depend on this kind of input. 659 00:38:09.143 --> 00:38:10.944 All of these things are very, 660 00:38:11.024 --> 00:38:11.885 very interconnected, 661 00:38:12.565 --> 00:38:21.292 which is why the work that we are doing as a resource is sort of on an umbrella layer. 662 00:38:21.912 --> 00:38:24.274 This is something that we need to move on. 663 00:38:24.750 --> 00:38:25.650 At the same time, 664 00:38:25.730 --> 00:38:28.091 on many different leverage points, 665 00:38:28.352 --> 00:38:35.795 so points in the system where we can actually have a significant impact with relatively few resources. 666 00:38:36.615 --> 00:38:38.236 What we have right now in the 667 00:38:39.496 --> 00:38:42.237 European agri-food system is a unique opportunity. 668 00:38:42.637 --> 00:38:49.640 And we have this combination of an increasing crisis that increasingly is being recognized. 669 00:38:49.641 --> 00:38:51.301 It's increasingly being talked about. 670 00:38:52.681 --> 00:38:54.142 We have an alternative. 671 00:38:54.862 --> 00:38:56.143 that we already have data for, 672 00:38:56.543 --> 00:38:59.924 that we already have enough cases, 673 00:39:00.305 --> 00:39:02.686 enough critical mass to say this is actually working. 674 00:39:03.826 --> 00:39:05.607 We have very, 675 00:39:05.727 --> 00:39:08.088 very dedicated leaders throughout the system. 676 00:39:08.248 --> 00:39:19.172 One of the very special things about the regenerative agri-food space is the very hopeful vision that we have here because we're talking about not just changed agricultural practices, 677 00:39:19.212 --> 00:39:20.793 we're changing about a different outlook, 678 00:39:20.813 --> 00:39:22.754 we're changing about a different paradigm. 679 00:39:23.746 --> 00:39:24.027 of the 680 00:39:24.387 --> 00:39:25.287 European agri-food system, 681 00:39:25.307 --> 00:39:25.868 and in the end, 682 00:39:26.968 --> 00:39:28.489 also on us as individuals, 683 00:39:29.070 --> 00:39:30.070 on our society, 684 00:39:30.550 --> 00:39:31.311 on our future. 685 00:39:31.751 --> 00:39:34.813 We're talking about a society that, 686 00:39:35.253 --> 00:39:35.734 in the end, 687 00:39:36.174 --> 00:39:41.437 lives in close coordination and harmony with the natural world, 688 00:39:41.477 --> 00:39:42.958 which is something that a lot of us... 689 00:39:43.558 --> 00:39:44.379 really aspire to. 690 00:39:45.520 --> 00:39:47.341 So there's this powerful vision. 691 00:39:47.941 --> 00:39:52.084 There's very dedicated leaders throughout all stakeholder groups. 692 00:39:52.124 --> 00:39:53.905 So whether we're talking about finance, 693 00:39:53.945 --> 00:39:56.207 whether we're talking about the farming community, 694 00:39:56.267 --> 00:39:57.748 whether we're talking about the NGO space, 695 00:39:57.749 --> 00:39:58.368 the researchers, 696 00:39:58.369 --> 00:39:59.309 the policymakers, 697 00:39:59.669 --> 00:40:01.250 the grassroots organizers. 698 00:40:01.691 --> 00:40:05.854 So the whole system is activated for this. 699 00:40:06.674 --> 00:40:11.998 What we're doing as resource to support this is to find 700 00:40:12.502 --> 00:40:16.284 those individuals and invite into conversations, 701 00:40:16.464 --> 00:40:19.125 invite into conversations both for sense making, 702 00:40:19.185 --> 00:40:32.111 so for us to build a more complete vision of the systems to better understand how does this influence that and where does this play with this and where do we actually have the possibility of intervening here, 703 00:40:33.111 --> 00:40:35.932 but it's also the resourcing. 704 00:40:36.272 --> 00:40:39.534 So making sure that the individual leaders, 705 00:40:39.554 --> 00:40:39.674 the 706 00:40:40.422 --> 00:40:41.203 Maybe 50, 707 00:40:41.204 --> 00:40:41.823 100, 708 00:40:41.883 --> 00:40:42.444 200, 709 00:40:42.484 --> 00:40:46.927 maybe 500 individual leaders that are fighting every day for this, 710 00:40:46.947 --> 00:40:48.409 that are working every day for this, 711 00:40:49.029 --> 00:40:53.653 have the resources to make these fundamental changes happen. 712 00:40:54.594 --> 00:40:58.477 And resources can mean financial resources, 713 00:40:58.537 --> 00:41:01.259 so to make sure that the NGOs that are working for this, 714 00:41:01.319 --> 00:41:02.180 that the research, 715 00:41:03.041 --> 00:41:09.006 that the grassroots organizers have the means to continue this work. 716 00:41:09.638 --> 00:41:11.539 But it's also the emotional, 717 00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:13.059 psychological resources. 718 00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:16.420 We are all confronting deep, 719 00:41:16.520 --> 00:41:17.140 deep trauma. 720 00:41:17.200 --> 00:41:21.901 We are all facing mourning about the future that has been taken from us, 721 00:41:22.201 --> 00:41:23.562 the future that we have imagined. 722 00:41:24.142 --> 00:41:26.863 It's the peer group in the same way as the farmers. 723 00:41:26.883 --> 00:41:33.865 It's also the industry and research and policymakers that are walking out of an established system. 724 00:41:33.885 --> 00:41:38.646 So there's also a need for a peer group to exchange with. 725 00:41:39.462 --> 00:41:54.134 So it's building the infrastructure around the change makers that will make it possible for them to sustain this work and facilitate this major crisis, 726 00:41:54.575 --> 00:41:57.757 this catastrophe into a transformation. 727 00:41:58.498 --> 00:41:59.338 Because in the end, 728 00:41:59.339 --> 00:42:00.219 that's what it comes down to. 729 00:42:01.640 --> 00:42:04.903 You can have a major pain, 730 00:42:05.544 --> 00:42:07.005 you can have a major crisis. 731 00:42:08.566 --> 00:42:13.149 that can lead to a breakdown or it can lead to a transformation. 732 00:42:13.690 --> 00:42:14.930 If we look at agriculture, 733 00:42:15.071 --> 00:42:24.517 almost every one of the sort of known pioneer stories in regenerative agriculture start with a major crisis. 734 00:42:24.518 --> 00:42:25.898 It can be an economic crisis, 735 00:42:25.899 --> 00:42:27.219 it can be a personal crisis, 736 00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:29.120 but it starts with this. 737 00:42:29.961 --> 00:42:30.581 And from there, 738 00:42:31.181 --> 00:42:32.082 some of us break down, 739 00:42:32.262 --> 00:42:33.143 and that is very fair. 740 00:42:33.923 --> 00:42:35.524 But with the right kind of support, 741 00:42:35.725 --> 00:42:37.406 it becomes more possible. 742 00:42:37.846 --> 00:42:42.108 for us to move into new decisions and the transformation of the system, 743 00:42:43.328 --> 00:42:49.771 leading over time from our own systems to the larger systems that we are also a part of. 744 00:42:50.631 --> 00:42:54.993 I think to sort of the last thing that gives me personally a lot of hope, 745 00:42:55.633 --> 00:42:59.335 if we look at how systems evolve, 746 00:42:59.435 --> 00:43:00.995 what has power in a system, 747 00:43:01.616 --> 00:43:04.137 there's a sequence of these things, 748 00:43:04.257 --> 00:43:04.477 right? 749 00:43:04.857 --> 00:43:06.918 So it is more powerful. 750 00:43:07.898 --> 00:43:11.881 to change something about the rules of the system than, 751 00:43:12.021 --> 00:43:12.302 let's say, 752 00:43:12.303 --> 00:43:13.122 the individual farm, 753 00:43:13.362 --> 00:43:13.562 right? 754 00:43:13.783 --> 00:43:16.825 We can try and affect the practices of the individual farm, 755 00:43:17.385 --> 00:43:20.928 but if the rules that govern all of the farms work against this, 756 00:43:21.268 --> 00:43:21.488 you know, 757 00:43:21.768 --> 00:43:22.489 it's less powerful. 758 00:43:23.209 --> 00:43:26.131 More powerful than the rules of the system is the goal of the system. 759 00:43:27.312 --> 00:43:31.115 This is what everything else is oriented around. 760 00:43:32.035 --> 00:43:35.958 And the goal of the European agri-food system you 761 00:43:36.774 --> 00:43:37.734 And this is very important. 762 00:43:37.895 --> 00:43:39.875 The goal of the European Union, 763 00:43:40.095 --> 00:43:42.697 the founding idea of the European Union, 764 00:43:43.097 --> 00:43:44.117 is food security. 765 00:43:44.857 --> 00:43:45.878 So for the first time, 766 00:43:45.898 --> 00:43:57.203 we have a case where the goal of the system and the more decentralized and more resilient and more bottom-up, 767 00:43:57.543 --> 00:43:59.464 more water-positive, 768 00:44:00.104 --> 00:44:01.064 biodiverse, 769 00:44:01.344 --> 00:44:02.325 soil-supporting, 770 00:44:02.565 --> 00:44:04.446 community-supporting agriculture. 771 00:44:04.934 --> 00:44:11.197 is actually in line with the larger goals of the system that we have built. 772 00:44:11.777 --> 00:44:14.098 This is something that gives me immense hope, 773 00:44:14.778 --> 00:44:19.180 makes me believe that we are on a path of transformation here, 774 00:44:19.820 --> 00:44:26.143 but we also have to be ready for the significant disruptions and the pain that is ahead of us. 775 00:44:26.823 --> 00:44:32.606 We are looking at major disruptions of food systems and there will be a lot of farms. 776 00:44:33.042 --> 00:44:35.544 that will have to close in the coming decades. 777 00:44:36.124 --> 00:44:37.906 So this will not be easy, 778 00:44:38.406 --> 00:44:39.067 but it is, 779 00:44:39.567 --> 00:44:39.907 I think, 780 00:44:40.107 --> 00:44:53.878 the most hopeful outcome of the major disruptions that we have in the global system is the potential emergence of a regenerative agri-food system that might just be the inspiration for a regenerative society.