WEBVTT

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We're so calm and harmonious today.

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Let's go.

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 Yeah.

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Hey.

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 From space defense to space exploration,

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 there are missions,

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 satellites and such for almost everything.

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 Some will crack,

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 some will measure and others will pick up.

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Yes,

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 like NASA's DART,

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 Double Asteroid Redirection Test,

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 which cracked with an asteroid in 2022 to see if we could change its course.

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 Or ESA's HERA.

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 which was sent to Sanna Asteroid 2024 with the mission to measure how it went.

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 It will be released in about a year in November 2026,

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 and that's what we look forward to.

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Yes,

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 and then we have the Sondor Hayabusa and Hayabusa 2,

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 which didn't crack at all.

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 No,

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 they landed soft on asteroids,

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 collected in gravel and dust,

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 and then flew home with these tests again.

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And in common with all these missions.

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 Besides being small and smart,

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 and that it's super cool to fly things to asteroids,

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 they build on cooperation between countries,

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 organizations and industry.

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Just as it should be.

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 My name is Marcus Pettersson.

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My name is Susanna Levenhaupt.

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And you're listening to

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 Have We Gone To Mars Yet?

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Today we will be doing small,

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 smart missions.

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 And there is only one place to start,

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 Japan.

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 There,

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 they have been pioneers in landing asteroids and taking samples home.

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After two successful missions with Hayabusa and Hayabusa 2,

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 where they picked up dust from asteroids,

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 they prepare for a third time.

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 But this time from a moon.

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Yes,

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 JAXA landed on our moon in

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 January 2024 with SLIM.

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 Smart Lander for Investigating Moon.

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 So why go back there,

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 when you can go to one of Mars'

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 moons instead?

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 In this case,

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 Phobos.

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 Masaaki Fujimoto is general director for JAXA's research department.

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 And with him we have talked about,

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 among other things,

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 MMX.

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 Martian Moons Exploration Mission

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So, Dr.

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 Fujimoto,

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 last time we talked,

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 SLIM had just landed.

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 What has happened since then?

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So in

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 January 2024,

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 SLIM landed on the moon.

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 And it was a pinpoint landing,

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 a new way of landing,

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 a smart way of landing.

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 And by the smallest lander on the moon.

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 So we are really pursuing the small and smart strategy.

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 And SLIM is like a symbol that we are moving.

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 moving ahead.

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 And then we are now preparing for MMX,

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 Martian Moons Exploration Mission,

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 which will return samples from Phobos,

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 one of the Martian moons.

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 So this is like continuing the legacy created by Hayabusa2.

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 We will return samples from one of the small bodies that was born in the outer part of the solar system.

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 And I think we can gain lots of insight about how the habitability was switched on,

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 on our planet.

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And will there be a continuity with SLIM?

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Yeah,

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 so landing on the moon,

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 for us,

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 for my institute,

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 it's kind of almost forbidden to repeat something again.

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 Every time it has to be at the cutting edge.

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 So when it comes to the moon,

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 we are now focusing on what do we do after we land.

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 In Japan,

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 we do have a company that is trying to make business out of providing the logistics.

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 to the surface of the moon.

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 And I think that's a good move happening.

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 That's a good transformative move that's happening now.

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 And maybe when it comes to landing itself,

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 because there's a commercial company that's interested,

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 we better purchase the service,

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 transportation service from them.

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 Again,

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 well,

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 it's really something new that's emerging now and we are having a discussion every day.

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 So that's something.

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 One thing I'm thinking now is,

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 you know,

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 how do you get the broader support so that

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 Moon and Mars exploration is a sustainable one?

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 Because it's something everybody's interested.

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 It's something everybody wish they can be a part of it.

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 And then we have been thinking about this,

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 you know,

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 SLIM landing on the moon.

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 And then MMX going to the Martian systems,

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 returning samples back from one of the Martian moons.

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 Does that mean that we are ready for landing on Mars?

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 And I've been scratching my head every night thinking about this.

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 And,

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 well,

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 you all know that NASA has been doing great.

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 And if we do something smaller,

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 but in the same style as NASA,

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 we'll end up just looking miserable.

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 But

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 I've been thinking about this.

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 And then I think we have a good idea.

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 We have a key technology by which we can run

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 JAXA's way of landing on Mars.

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 So that's another project I'm pursuing now.

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Wow,

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 great.

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 And can you tell me just a bit more about that?

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 Because first off,

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 I mean,

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 you haven't landed with MMX yet.

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 So tell me a bit more about these two missions.

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Yes,

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 so

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 HABSA-2 was a small-body mission.

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 So with

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 did the touch and go sampling from the asteroid Ryugu,

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 but that was about,

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 you know,

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 astrodynamics around the small gravity body.

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 But with SLIM,

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 we landed on the surface of the moon,

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 which means that we know how to land on a big body.

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 And with MMX,

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 we will be cruising around Mars.

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 So we know how to get into orbit around Mars.

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 So the only remaining step is how do you get to the surface of Mars from an orbit around Mars.

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 So I have been thinking about what's the,

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 you know,

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 we call it EDL,

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 entry,

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 descent and landing technology.

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 That is very nice for us to pursue,

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 which means that what is the key technology for EDL that enables smaller assets?

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 You know,

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 what's the key technology that will enable lightweight access to the surface of Mars?

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 And I think we have that technology already operating for terrestrial cases.

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 We call it an inflatable aeroshell.

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 So instead of having a parachute and then the solid heat shell,

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 we just have a single inflatable soft aeroshell.

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 And that will do all the job as long as you're interested in lightweight access to the surface of Mars.

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So two questions then.

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 What is it that you want to do when you've landed?

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 Is it only to show that you can land or do you have a mission as well?

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 And what is the time schedule for this?

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So I might want to start from the time scale.

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 We have three steps in mind.

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 And the third step is a serious one,

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 like bringing 200 kilogram-ish rover to the surface.

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 And that should happen before mid 2040.

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 That's my plan.

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 And the key,

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 our technology,

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 the technology we have,

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 it can bring up to 200 kilogram-ish rover to the surface.

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 And the reason I care about lightweight access is Mars is so attractive.

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 And well,

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 NASA's been doing great,

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 but...

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 it's one big mission in a decade.

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 And Mars is so attractive that you would rather go more frequently.

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 And because it's so attractive,

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 if you can gain the frequency,

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 even on smaller missions,

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 like 200 kilogram-ish rover,

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 if you can perform it multiple times,

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 like three times per decade,

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 I think that's what scientists want.

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 And it's really,

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 so we're really pursuing the low cost.

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 and more frequent access to the surface of Mars.

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 So in a sense,

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 we were trying to democratize

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 Mars' landing mission.

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Great.

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 And just so,

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 before we leave Mars,

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 the first step now is to do the MMX mission.

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 So when will that,

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 how are we going with that?

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Yes,

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 MMX mission will go to the Martian system.

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 It will be captured by the gravitational field of Mars.

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 But we don't land on Mars itself,

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 we land on one of the moons,

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 Phobos.

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 So it will be launched next year,

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 about a year from now,

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 and then it takes one year to get to the Martian system.

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 And once you're in the Martian system,

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 you will be orbiting around Mars,

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 but at the same time you're orbiting close to

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 Phobos.

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 And then during the three-year stay in the Martian system,

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 we will be landing on Phobos twice and getting samples from there.

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 from the surface.

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 And then in 2031,

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 we will be returning samples from Phobos,

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 and the landing spot will be in the desert in Australia.

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You also told me about other missions you're on board now,

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 especially a few that you're doing together with

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 Europe and ESA.

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 So can you tell me more about them?

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Yes,

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 what's already happened is the

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 BepiColombo mission.

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 It's a mission to Mercury.

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 So that was launched in 2018 already,

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 and we've been waiting for more than seven years before we get to Mercury.

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 Well,

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 Mercury,

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 distance-wise,

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 you know,

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 Mercury is close.

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 But,

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 you know,

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 when it comes to astrodynamics,

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 it's pretty far away.

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 It's a planet in the innermost part of the solar system,

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 and it's not easy to access.

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 It's as simple as that.

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 But,

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 again,

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 about one year from now,

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 we will be in orbit around Mercury,

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 and we'll start observations.

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 So

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 BepiColombo was like the first step where we started to have a tight collaboration with the European Space Agency.

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 And then what's flying now already is the JUICE mission.

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 It's a mission to investigate the icy moons of Jupiter.

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 And we have provided instruments to the mission.

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 And because icy moons are very interesting from the astrobiology point of view,

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 it is creating a nice vibe among the young planetary scientists in Japan.

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 So I really appreciate this collaboration.

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 Not only because we had the opportunity,

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 ESA gave us the opportunity to provide our instrument,

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 but more like...

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 stimulating their younger generations so that they can expand their horizon.

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 And another mission we are working on is the Comet Interceptor.

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 It's still under preparation,

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 but it's a mission that will be in a parking orbit waiting for some extra solar system object to fly by around our system.

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 And once we find something is coming,

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 then from the parking orbit,

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 the spacecraft will make a close flyby with that.

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 exotic object and make observations.

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 So it has a kind of a similar flavor as a planetary defense,

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 but you know that something is getting close to you,

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 but that may be too late,

272
00:11:43.882 --> 00:11:46.139
 because you know that something is coming,

273
00:11:46.389 --> 00:11:46.858
 and you think,

274
00:11:46.921 --> 00:11:47.046
 oh,

275
00:11:47.124 --> 00:11:49.202
 I want to send a spacecraft to it.

276
00:11:49.561 --> 00:11:51.311
 You have to start building a spacecraft,

277
00:11:51.327 --> 00:11:52.483
 you have to prepare the launcher,

278
00:11:53.030 --> 00:11:53.671
 and then launch,

279
00:11:54.014 --> 00:11:56.858
 and launch window can be limited when it comes to space missions.

280
00:11:57.497 --> 00:12:00.800
 So instead of doing all those groundwork,

281
00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:05.065
 after knowing that your favourite body is coming,

282
00:12:05.745 --> 00:12:10.933
 you better launch your spacecraft already beforehand and put it into the parking orbit,

283
00:12:12.409 --> 00:12:14.198
 which is like a launch point.

284
00:12:14.417 --> 00:12:15.042
 And from there,

285
00:12:15.136 --> 00:12:18.042
 it's easy to get out into the interplanetary space.

286
00:12:18.605 --> 00:12:25.448
 So it's a point where you should park your vehicle and wait until your favourite body comes and once you see it coming.

287
00:12:25.813 --> 00:12:29.877
 it's easy to get out into the interplanetary space and make a close encounter.

288
00:12:30.056 --> 00:12:30.799
 So that's the idea.

289
00:12:30.857 --> 00:12:32.017
 I think it's a brilliant idea.

290
00:12:32.318 --> 00:12:36.064
 So the mission consists of three spacecraft,

291
00:12:36.564 --> 00:12:40.588
 one the mothership and then the two daughter spacecraft.

292
00:12:41.150 --> 00:12:46.736
 And we will be providing one of the daughter spacecraft because mothership don't want to take the risk,

293
00:12:47.267 --> 00:12:50.455
 but our daughter spacecraft can take the risk.

294
00:12:50.736 --> 00:12:53.814
 So we will be the one that will make the closest approach to this.

295
00:12:54.181 --> 00:12:54.421
 you know,

296
00:12:54.481 --> 00:12:55.783
 incoming exotic body.

297
00:12:56.303 --> 00:12:56.424
 So,

298
00:12:57.684 --> 00:12:57.805
 yeah,

299
00:12:57.844 --> 00:12:58.105
 again,

300
00:12:59.488 --> 00:13:02.488
 I like this project because we know each other well.

301
00:13:03.793 --> 00:13:06.676
 Our European friends know that we like to take the risk.

302
00:13:08.512 --> 00:13:11.074
 And because it's composed of three spacecraft,

303
00:13:11.465 --> 00:13:12.746
 there's a role,

304
00:13:13.605 --> 00:13:13.887
 you know,

305
00:13:14.074 --> 00:13:15.074
 it's like a role sharing.

306
00:13:15.262 --> 00:13:17.621
 We will do our job and the Europeans will do their job.

307
00:13:17.699 --> 00:13:19.090
 And as a whole,

308
00:13:19.605 --> 00:13:20.793
 we can get some nice result.

309
00:13:20.887 --> 00:13:23.871
 We will gain insight about this incoming exotic body.

310
00:13:24.461 --> 00:13:28.841
Because we talked about the planetary defense things you have going.

311
00:13:29.181 --> 00:13:35.400
 So can you tell us more about the missions and what your thoughts are on the planetary defense side?

312
00:13:35.681 --> 00:13:35.963
Again,

313
00:13:36.322 --> 00:13:37.541
 it's something new happening.

314
00:13:37.947 --> 00:13:40.166
 We made a big success with HABSA-2 mission,

315
00:13:40.345 --> 00:13:42.283
 and it's an asteroid sample return mission.

316
00:13:42.845 --> 00:13:44.658
 So if you think about asteroid science,

317
00:13:44.861 --> 00:13:48.799
 and if you think what's the biggest topic related to asteroid science,

318
00:13:49.674 --> 00:13:50.705
 it's planetary defense.

319
00:13:51.533 --> 00:13:51.933
 Basically,

320
00:13:51.993 --> 00:13:55.336
 Planetary Defense is about proving that you are smarter than dinosaurs.

321
00:13:56.175 --> 00:13:58.355
 Humanity is smarter than dinosaurs.

322
00:13:59.773 --> 00:14:03.937
 We used to think that if you are not capable of deflecting small bodies,

323
00:14:03.976 --> 00:14:05.859
 we shouldn't be talking about Planetary Defense.

324
00:14:05.914 --> 00:14:07.351
 That was what we used to think.

325
00:14:07.461 --> 00:14:11.445
 But now we have the capability to investigate small bodies,

326
00:14:11.757 --> 00:14:13.586
 then we can contribute to Planetary Defense.

327
00:14:13.664 --> 00:14:16.476
 So that's the change which happened recently.

328
00:14:17.836 --> 00:14:19.039
And concretely,

329
00:14:19.164 --> 00:14:20.054
 how will we...

330
00:14:20.525 --> 00:14:20.905
 do this?

331
00:14:20.966 --> 00:14:23.007
 How will we defend the planet?

332
00:14:23.407 --> 00:14:23.548
Oh,

333
00:14:23.568 --> 00:14:27.933
 so when we realize that there's a small body that's going to hit Earth,

334
00:14:28.534 --> 00:14:30.558
 what we can do is to change the trajectory.

335
00:14:31.019 --> 00:14:32.214
 And there's a,

336
00:14:32.698 --> 00:14:33.698
 practically speaking,

337
00:14:34.277 --> 00:14:36.816
 there's one technology that's been demonstrated already,

338
00:14:36.956 --> 00:14:38.566
 which we call the kinetic impactor.

339
00:14:39.128 --> 00:14:43.191
 So you impact the spacecraft to the small body so that you can change the trajectory.

340
00:14:43.800 --> 00:14:49.456
 But that should happen like 10 years ahead of the impact date.

341
00:14:50.513 --> 00:14:51.473
 Earlier is better,

342
00:14:51.533 --> 00:14:52.173
 of course.

343
00:14:52.694 --> 00:14:55.876
 You cannot change them once after you start to see it.

344
00:14:57.255 --> 00:14:58.477
 So again,

345
00:14:59.993 --> 00:15:04.477
 once you know that even you have the technology like kinetic impactor,

346
00:15:04.735 --> 00:15:08.634
 but still knowing that it's coming earlier is better,

347
00:15:09.165 --> 00:15:14.181
 then that will give you the idea that you better learn more about small bodies.

348
00:15:14.712 --> 00:15:16.665
 So that's where we can play a role.

349
00:15:17.040 --> 00:15:19.165
 And another example I can give you is...

350
00:15:19.441 --> 00:15:21.866
 is Apophis in less than four years from now.

351
00:15:21.968 --> 00:15:22.989
 There will be a

352
00:15:23.732 --> 00:15:27.099
 300-meter asteroid by the name Apophis.

353
00:15:28.630 --> 00:15:30.032
 That will zip by Earth.

354
00:15:30.391 --> 00:15:36.901
 The closest distance between Earth and the asteroid is like 30,000 kilometers.

355
00:15:37.456 --> 00:15:38.097
 So that's really,

356
00:15:38.183 --> 00:15:38.878
 really close.

357
00:15:39.581 --> 00:15:41.800
 And then we don't want to miss this opportunity.

358
00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:45.183
 It's like a big experiment prepared by the universe.

359
00:15:45.729 --> 00:15:48.511
 And we shouldn't be stupid to miss this opportunity.

360
00:15:49.011 --> 00:15:50.276
 When you have such an opportunity,

361
00:15:50.308 --> 00:15:51.339
 you better utilize it.

362
00:15:51.948 --> 00:15:56.933
 So that's why European Space Agency is now building a mission by the name Ramses.

363
00:15:57.314 --> 00:15:58.935
 And we are joining them.

364
00:15:59.754 --> 00:16:04.436
 And it will rendezvous with the asteroid about a month before the closest approach.

365
00:16:04.897 --> 00:16:12.197
 And we'll keep on rendezvous up to the time after the closest approach.

366
00:16:12.838 --> 00:16:19.940
 So we will watch what happens to a small body when it's under the strong gravity field of Earth.

367
00:16:20.940 --> 00:16:22.080
 And from that,

368
00:16:22.221 --> 00:16:25.158
 we can learn about the internal structure of the small body.

369
00:16:27.758 --> 00:16:27.998
 You know,

370
00:16:28.219 --> 00:16:29.819
 once you know about the internal structure,

371
00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:35.768
 that will give us better insight into how we could perform the kinetic impact experiment,

372
00:16:35.925 --> 00:16:36.464
 if needed,

373
00:16:37.050 --> 00:16:37.870
 in a much better way.

374
00:16:41.636 --> 00:16:44.370
And as I have learned to understand it,

375
00:16:44.479 --> 00:16:44.776
 both

376
00:16:45.214 --> 00:16:46.636
 Jaxa and yourself,

377
00:16:46.761 --> 00:16:48.261
 you're very visionary.

378
00:16:48.823 --> 00:16:51.995
 So what is your vision for the future of,

379
00:16:52.261 --> 00:16:53.261
 let's start with the moon,

380
00:16:53.370 --> 00:16:54.557
 what would you like to see there?

381
00:16:55.245 --> 00:16:56.479
yeah for the moon

382
00:16:56.718 --> 00:17:05.803
 I don't have much to say because it's already a territory where commercial vendors are coming,

383
00:17:05.928 --> 00:17:07.530
 commercial companies are coming in.

384
00:17:07.608 --> 00:17:07.725
 So

385
00:17:10.014 --> 00:17:11.233
 I cannot talk much about the moon,

386
00:17:11.389 --> 00:17:12.616
 but when it comes to Mars,

387
00:17:13.194 --> 00:17:14.428
 it's so attractive.

388
00:17:15.584 --> 00:17:22.350
 And there's a big chance that we can make some findings that will change the shape of astrobiology.

389
00:17:22.600 --> 00:17:24.600
 I think astrobiology will be the one with the...

390
00:17:24.678 --> 00:17:28.362
 one of the biggest pillar in academic activity sooner or later.

391
00:17:29.243 --> 00:17:35.512
 And then if our mission makes some finding that will reshape astrobiology,

392
00:17:35.606 --> 00:17:39.489
 I think that's the moment you think your life is worth of it.

393
00:17:40.215 --> 00:17:40.973
 I will put it that way.

394
00:17:41.770 --> 00:17:43.239
 So for me,

395
00:17:44.317 --> 00:17:52.911
 democratizing Mars landing missions is something I really think I can devote my time to.

396
00:17:54.678 --> 00:17:55.899
 Mars is so attractive.

397
00:17:56.881 --> 00:17:59.441
 It's challenging as well.

398
00:18:00.125 --> 00:18:04.750
 And there are many players in the globe that can provide something,

399
00:18:05.445 --> 00:18:06.172
 but who cannot,

400
00:18:06.711 --> 00:18:06.969
 you know,

401
00:18:07.094 --> 00:18:08.515
 who cannot manage a whole mission.

402
00:18:08.953 --> 00:18:11.859
 Then why don't we prepare a platform that everybody can join?

403
00:18:12.031 --> 00:18:12.469
 Not just,

404
00:18:12.734 --> 00:18:13.078
 you know,

405
00:18:13.453 --> 00:18:14.656
 Europe or the U.S.,

406
00:18:15.265 --> 00:18:15.797
 but somebody,

407
00:18:15.984 --> 00:18:18.265
 some emerging space nations.

408
00:18:19.015 --> 00:18:20.047
 They can join us.

409
00:18:20.344 --> 00:18:21.531
 We provide a platform,

410
00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:24.265
 and the platform should be one that...

411
00:18:24.434 --> 00:18:26.677
 will enable frequent missions,

412
00:18:27.077 --> 00:18:28.718
 frequent and okay-sized missions.

413
00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:30.440
 And that way,

414
00:18:30.819 --> 00:18:34.202
 more and more people can join,

415
00:18:34.546 --> 00:18:35.366
 have fun together.

416
00:18:36.765 --> 00:18:40.890
 I think that will make me happy when it happens.

417
00:18:41.905 --> 00:18:45.093
Are manned missions part of your vision here,

418
00:18:45.452 --> 00:18:46.718
 both for the Moon and Mars?

419
00:18:47.343 --> 00:18:47.452
Yeah,

420
00:18:47.530 --> 00:18:48.640
 it's a tough question.

421
00:18:50.124 --> 00:18:50.358
 Like

422
00:18:50.827 --> 00:18:51.343
 10 years ago,

423
00:18:51.437 --> 00:18:52.077
 15 years ago,

424
00:18:52.202 --> 00:18:53.499
 when I was a pure scientist,

425
00:18:54.166 --> 00:19:00.254
 It was so easy to complain about the cost associated with human missions.

426
00:19:01.273 --> 00:19:02.550
 But at the same time,

427
00:19:03.355 --> 00:19:04.457
 when you talk about visions,

428
00:19:05.699 --> 00:19:08.277
 if you don't have human missions somewhere in your mind,

429
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:10.879
 then is it really fun?

430
00:19:12.082 --> 00:19:13.222
 So yes,

431
00:19:13.300 --> 00:19:19.129
 I think the human mission is the ultimate thing that we should think about,

432
00:19:19.832 --> 00:19:20.769
 but it's costly.

433
00:19:21.790 --> 00:19:24.293
 And there are so many things that you should think about,

434
00:19:24.334 --> 00:19:24.572
 like,

435
00:19:24.933 --> 00:19:26.193
 can you really take the risk?

436
00:19:27.474 --> 00:19:31.298
 So what we should really do now is to think about,

437
00:19:32.080 --> 00:19:32.861
 more seriously,

438
00:19:33.025 --> 00:19:36.408
 about the synergy between robotic mission and human missions.

439
00:19:36.744 --> 00:19:36.869
 So,

440
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:39.103
 like,

441
00:19:39.228 --> 00:19:39.853
 at JAXA,

442
00:19:39.963 --> 00:19:42.884
 we are preparing a big pressurized rover,

443
00:19:43.634 --> 00:19:46.681
 and that will bring human astronauts to the surface of the moon.

444
00:19:47.634 --> 00:19:49.103
 But because it's a human astronaut,

445
00:19:49.134 --> 00:19:51.166
 you don't want to ask her or him to...

446
00:19:51.366 --> 00:19:52.147
 take a big risk.

447
00:19:52.267 --> 00:19:52.407
 Hey,

448
00:19:52.468 --> 00:19:54.208
 can you jump off the cliff?

449
00:19:54.710 --> 00:19:56.610
 That's not what you ask her or him to do.

450
00:19:57.591 --> 00:19:59.114
 And there will be a situation like this,

451
00:19:59.794 --> 00:20:00.036
 you know,

452
00:20:00.177 --> 00:20:01.692
 because it's going to be a big rover,

453
00:20:02.817 --> 00:20:05.520
 that the area that it can access will be limited.

454
00:20:07.302 --> 00:20:09.599
 So if you think about all those practical issues,

455
00:20:09.645 --> 00:20:13.442
 you would think that even though human astronauts are smart,

456
00:20:15.755 --> 00:20:15.927
 but,

457
00:20:16.036 --> 00:20:16.255
 you know,

458
00:20:16.256 --> 00:20:17.552
 constrained at the same time,

459
00:20:18.239 --> 00:20:20.020
 and then maybe she or he can bring a

460
00:20:20.910 --> 00:20:25.948
 a small robot together with her and let the small robot do the focused

461
00:20:27.030 --> 00:20:27.290
 job,

462
00:20:27.611 --> 00:20:29.293
 but can take the risk at the same time.

463
00:20:29.732 --> 00:20:30.254
 So for me,

464
00:20:30.533 --> 00:20:31.115
 in the future,

465
00:20:31.135 --> 00:20:31.935
 in the near future,

466
00:20:32.396 --> 00:20:35.935
 when an astronaut is walking a small robot,

467
00:20:36.162 --> 00:20:39.826
 like we walk our dog in the park on Sunday morning,

468
00:20:41.146 --> 00:20:41.381
 again,

469
00:20:42.123 --> 00:20:44.084
 that vision makes me happy.

470
00:20:44.912 --> 00:20:46.068
 And when will we be there?

471
00:20:47.474 --> 00:20:48.178
 In 10 years.

472
00:20:48.224 --> 00:20:49.537
 It should happen within 10 years.

473
00:20:49.631 --> 00:20:49.849
Yes.

474
00:20:56.806 --> 00:20:59.488
 If these visions make Masaaki Fujimoto happy,

475
00:20:59.750 --> 00:21:02.269
 then it's our damn duty to fulfill them.

476
00:21:03.074 --> 00:21:03.715
Right?

477
00:21:04.191 --> 00:21:06.473
 So it's just to keep going.

478
00:21:06.512 --> 00:21:08.996
 Whether it's to put people with robot dogs on the moon,

479
00:21:09.019 --> 00:21:12.340
 small space probes on asteroids,

480
00:21:12.840 --> 00:21:15.559
 or components on satellites around the world for that part,

481
00:21:15.590 --> 00:21:17.543
 then Sweden should be with us.

482
00:21:17.605 --> 00:21:19.934
 And we are with us,

483
00:21:19.935 --> 00:21:24.340
 both when it comes to research and when it comes to advanced space technology.

484
00:21:24.355 --> 00:21:24.871
Precis!

485
00:21:25.387 --> 00:21:26.121
 Så nu lämnar vi...

486
00:21:52.634 --> 00:21:59.441
We work with rugged,

487
00:21:59.679 --> 00:22:01.202
 In space,

488
00:22:01.265 --> 00:22:08.007
 the requirements are even tougher.

489
00:22:08.031 --> 00:22:14.054
 And it's often radiation,

490
00:22:14.117 --> 00:22:18.132
 so it's a lot of red hard.

491
00:22:21.590 --> 00:22:22.890
 Space-grade electronics,

492
00:22:22.910 --> 00:22:24.251
 as the Americans say,

493
00:22:24.252 --> 00:22:24.891
 is what we're doing.

494
00:22:24.892 --> 00:22:27.872
 And then the requirements are much higher.

495
00:22:27.891 --> 00:22:31.872
 It's temperatures and radiation and vibrations and all these things.

496
00:22:31.911 --> 00:22:38.356
 And we are a supplier of both components,

497
00:22:38.372 --> 00:22:39.216
 that's where we started,

498
00:22:39.217 --> 00:22:40.669
 a little bigger system,

499
00:22:41.091 --> 00:22:42.153
 single board computers,

500
00:22:42.216 --> 00:22:44.341
 a little bit of a circle in daily life,

501
00:22:44.481 --> 00:22:47.294
 and also computers,

502
00:22:47.309 --> 00:22:49.216
 where we work most with the defense industry.

503
00:22:50.074 --> 00:22:55.099
 These computers are often based on something that exists and then we modify them.

504
00:22:55.158 --> 00:23:02.767
 So we are a advisor and product supplier and product developer that solves customers'

505
00:23:02.869 --> 00:23:03.291
 challenges.

506
00:23:03.307 --> 00:23:05.166
Defense and space,

507
00:23:05.228 --> 00:23:08.307
 it's not really the same relationship.

508
00:23:08.308 --> 00:23:13.572
 So what more do you have to do for your products to stay in space?

509
00:23:13.619 --> 00:23:14.572
When it comes to space,

510
00:23:14.573 --> 00:23:15.041
 as I said,

511
00:23:15.057 --> 00:23:19.166
 it's partly these enormous environment requirements.

512
00:23:19.450 --> 00:23:21.893
 It's often a requirement that it should be very small,

513
00:23:22.214 --> 00:23:23.214
 miniaturization,

514
00:23:23.215 --> 00:23:25.995
 and this with radiation is an important piece.

515
00:23:26.136 --> 00:23:35.128
 So there we have traditionally been strong in red hard and high specifications.

516
00:23:35.284 --> 00:23:43.058
 We now note this glide towards much low earth orbit and the so-called new space segment.

517
00:23:44.634 --> 00:23:46.896
 We listen very carefully to what the requirements are,

518
00:23:46.897 --> 00:23:51.781
 and that's what I mean by this advisory function and partly also product development.

519
00:23:51.820 --> 00:23:52.402
 That we,

520
00:23:52.421 --> 00:23:53.640
 together with manufacturers,

521
00:23:54.101 --> 00:24:01.257
 can listen carefully to the challenges that exist and adapt our deliveries and our products to what is needed.

522
00:24:01.304 --> 00:24:03.820
 So that's what we do on the space side.

523
00:24:03.929 --> 00:24:14.335
 So there are many components and we are specialists on the components in a computer or something that sits around.

524
00:24:15.874 --> 00:24:16.475
 CPUs,

525
00:24:16.715 --> 00:24:18.637
 GPUs or FPGAs.

526
00:24:18.656 --> 00:24:20.715
 It's often about power supply,

527
00:24:21.617 --> 00:24:23.516
 it can be about memory,

528
00:24:23.517 --> 00:24:29.797
 it can be space cameras and it can be combined components.

529
00:24:29.820 --> 00:24:37.836
 One important factor both in the field of space and in the field of defense is that before there might have been a little more time and a little less money.

530
00:24:37.977 --> 00:24:39.977
 Now it's the other way around.

531
00:24:39.978 --> 00:24:42.617
 Now there's a lot of money and a lot of time.

532
00:24:43.614 --> 00:24:50.520
 We have ready solutions that can help our customers to get faster to the shot.

533
00:24:50.661 --> 00:24:57.927
 We often have quite short delivery times despite this being modified or scrapped solutions.

534
00:24:57.966 --> 00:25:01.895
Tell us a little more about where you are and what you do there.

535
00:25:02.786 --> 00:25:08.723
It's famous missions like Hera for example where we have both power and memory components on board.

536
00:25:09.708 --> 00:25:12.489
 So it's about satellites and their computers.

537
00:25:12.794 --> 00:25:17.400
 and these single board computers where we have components.

538
00:25:17.420 --> 00:25:18.021
 And that's a lot.

539
00:25:18.041 --> 00:25:18.299
 We have,

540
00:25:18.740 --> 00:25:20.920
 together with our manufacturers,

541
00:25:21.006 --> 00:25:24.670
 30 years of flight heritage from...

542
00:25:25.490 --> 00:25:26.170
 It's Leo,

543
00:25:26.349 --> 00:25:26.865
 it's MEO...

544
00:25:27.138 --> 00:25:27.659
 It's

545
00:25:28.339 --> 00:25:30.100
 Geo and Deep Space.

546
00:25:30.942 --> 00:25:32.963
 To give you a few examples,

547
00:25:32.983 --> 00:25:35.409
 apart from HERA,

548
00:25:35.463 --> 00:25:36.831
 which is an asteroid project,

549
00:25:36.832 --> 00:25:37.127
 we have

550
00:25:37.729 --> 00:25:38.768
 Jupiter, Moon,

551
00:25:39.393 --> 00:25:40.010
 Hubble,

552
00:25:41.510 --> 00:25:41.995
 Juno,

553
00:25:42.854 --> 00:25:43.377
 Juice,

554
00:25:44.096 --> 00:25:46.393
 ExoMars,

555
00:25:46.752 --> 00:25:47.252
 Mercury,

556
00:25:47.737 --> 00:25:48.659
 BepiColombo.

557
00:25:48.674 --> 00:25:50.987
 There are many such examples,

558
00:25:51.002 --> 00:25:53.221
 but it's a lot about satellites.

559
00:25:53.377 --> 00:25:54.549
 All of these I mentioned now.

560
00:25:55.046 --> 00:25:59.470
 It's a little further out in space,

561
00:25:59.509 --> 00:26:03.752
 but the big one is of course the growing LEO segment.

562
00:26:03.877 --> 00:26:05.955
You mention Hera.

563
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:10.181
 What have you done there and what are your components doing?

564
00:26:10.205 --> 00:26:12.002
A satellite was sent up,

565
00:26:13.002 --> 00:26:13.189
 DART,

566
00:26:13.205 --> 00:26:15.345
 that was going to collide.

567
00:26:15.439 --> 00:26:19.970
 The Hera mission is to monitor how you succeed with...

568
00:26:21.114 --> 00:26:22.034
 If you look at this crater,

569
00:26:22.035 --> 00:26:25.015
 you can diverge the track.

570
00:26:25.714 --> 00:26:26.636
 For the future,

571
00:26:26.637 --> 00:26:29.179
 nothing usually comes to earth.

572
00:26:30.179 --> 00:26:30.460
 Again,

573
00:26:30.476 --> 00:26:33.976
 we are characterized by a supplier to an

574
00:26:34.499 --> 00:26:35.280
 ESA project.

575
00:26:35.335 --> 00:26:41.593
 There are manufacturing companies that have turned to us for components.

576
00:26:42.046 --> 00:26:44.796
 It is mostly about different types of memories.

577
00:26:45.265 --> 00:26:47.562
 It can be what we call mass storage.

578
00:26:48.602 --> 00:26:51.523
 It can be the configuration memory for a

579
00:26:51.962 --> 00:26:53.442
 FPGA or a processor.

580
00:26:54.122 --> 00:26:59.446
 And there are a lot of different memories we have on board on these circuit cards for talking about clear text.

581
00:27:00.642 --> 00:27:04.368
 Then there is also this important part with that these must be power-sustained.

582
00:27:04.407 --> 00:27:05.540
 There we also have very nice,

583
00:27:06.446 --> 00:27:08.712
 again very reliable solutions.

584
00:27:08.713 --> 00:27:13.134
 This is further out in space and here you should be for a while and it is a very bright.

585
00:27:13.135 --> 00:27:17.368
 So here you get the right things if I express myself like that.

586
00:27:17.369 --> 00:27:17.493
 and

587
00:27:18.154 --> 00:27:21.279
And how long are these things going to last?

588
00:27:22.220 --> 00:27:22.801
Yes,

589
00:27:23.301 --> 00:27:24.323
 that's a good question.

590
00:27:24.342 --> 00:27:25.303
 Just like I said earlier,

591
00:27:25.323 --> 00:27:27.245
 we listen carefully to what the requirements are.

592
00:27:27.346 --> 00:27:28.565
 It's a bit like how far a string is,

593
00:27:29.127 --> 00:27:33.014
 but what are the requirements and then we meet them.

594
00:27:33.194 --> 00:27:37.756
 There are different degrees in these quality...

595
00:27:37.834 --> 00:27:43.162
 It's often about radiation and it can be single events,

596
00:27:43.787 --> 00:27:44.928
 SCE as well.

597
00:27:44.929 --> 00:27:51.834
 It can't be hit by a proton or anything else.

598
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:57.163
 We've tested the equipment so it guarantees that it will last as long as it takes.

599
00:27:57.187 --> 00:28:01.030
And now that we're talking about different distances,

600
00:28:01.085 --> 00:28:04.671
 you're building for Leo and you've been away,

601
00:28:04.672 --> 00:28:06.155
 on your way to Jupiter and away,

602
00:28:06.194 --> 00:28:11.694
 does it require different sustainability and sustainability?

603
00:28:11.804 --> 00:28:12.804
Yes,

604
00:28:12.805 --> 00:28:16.429
 it primarily concerns how long you're going to be out.

605
00:28:16.430 --> 00:28:21.690
 and what kind of radiation profile you have and so on.

606
00:28:21.768 --> 00:28:24.776
 And it doesn't have to be perfect.

607
00:28:24.777 --> 00:28:29.557
 You have to have guaranteed products that can handle a certain radiation level.

608
00:28:29.596 --> 00:28:31.119
 These are the ones that are a little further out,

609
00:28:31.120 --> 00:28:32.237
 of course.

610
00:28:32.401 --> 00:28:35.846
 And when you get a little closer to LEO-routes and so on,

611
00:28:35.847 --> 00:28:37.065
 it's the same thing again.

612
00:28:37.066 --> 00:28:42.877
 Then you don't just have to ask yourself how high you should go and how long,

613
00:28:42.924 --> 00:28:44.877
 but which route is it?

614
00:28:44.893 --> 00:28:45.877
 Polar routes?

615
00:28:46.388 --> 00:28:48.691
 And not just looking at the radiation,

616
00:28:48.710 --> 00:28:54.619
 but looking at the SCE as well.

617
00:28:54.620 --> 00:28:55.994
 What risk do you have?

618
00:28:55.995 --> 00:28:57.783
 And what are the parts?

619
00:28:57.784 --> 00:29:01.744
 And we clearly notice that the so-called New Space projects,

620
00:29:01.745 --> 00:29:03.025
 where you may have tried a little,

621
00:29:03.681 --> 00:29:03.978
 yes,

622
00:29:03.979 --> 00:29:05.666
 unproven card and chanced,

623
00:29:05.947 --> 00:29:06.806
 if you put it that way,

624
00:29:06.807 --> 00:29:11.837
 it brings a little back for us that if you want to find a between-stage,

625
00:29:11.853 --> 00:29:13.650
 that it must not go wrong,

626
00:29:13.712 --> 00:29:14.572
 for example,

627
00:29:14.603 --> 00:29:15.478
 with power supply.

628
00:29:16.096 --> 00:29:17.756
 Or some configuration memory.

629
00:29:17.816 --> 00:29:22.019
 While on other parts of the construction,

630
00:29:22.097 --> 00:29:22.257
 no,

631
00:29:22.698 --> 00:29:23.999
 it doesn't do much.

632
00:29:25.218 --> 00:29:27.515
 If there's a hiccup here,

633
00:29:27.516 --> 00:29:28.359
 then it starts over there.

634
00:29:28.421 --> 00:29:29.155
 And we have other,

635
00:29:29.179 --> 00:29:36.999
 the customer can have other backups that are careful to listen to what risk appetite they have,

636
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.577
we usually say.

637
00:29:38.609 --> 00:29:39.999
 You don't build entire satellites.

638
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.484
 So how do you work together with the customer to put your stuff in one?

639
00:29:44.744 --> 00:29:45.644
 some other satellite?

640
00:29:45.664 --> 00:29:46.545
For example,

641
00:29:46.546 --> 00:29:51.805
 the radiation testing and the services around that,

642
00:29:51.824 --> 00:29:52.945
 softwares,

643
00:29:52.984 --> 00:29:58.305
 that's something that people in NewSpace have asked for.

644
00:29:58.328 --> 00:30:00.125
 You want to test,

645
00:30:00.148 --> 00:30:05.414
 you want to put together a solution with maybe some cheaper components and then test it,

646
00:30:05.555 --> 00:30:11.805
 maybe screen it and not put everything in one big plastic box if I'm saying it in a slurpy way,

647
00:30:11.836 --> 00:30:13.617
 but if you do that,

648
00:30:13.618 --> 00:30:14.492
 you want to be able to

649
00:30:15.152 --> 00:30:20.139
 We look at the radiation directions and which components are most sensitive to place,

650
00:30:21.139 --> 00:30:23.124
 in quotation marks,

651
00:30:23.125 --> 00:30:29.085
 pieces of suitable metal in the right place to protect the components.

652
00:30:29.163 --> 00:30:35.835
 So that's an example where we provide capacity for our customers.

653
00:30:35.836 --> 00:30:42.038
 But the big sellers for us are radiation-resistant memories in different classes.

654
00:30:42.696 --> 00:30:43.757
 Power supply,

655
00:30:44.739 --> 00:30:46.059
 DC-DC converters,

656
00:30:46.299 --> 00:30:47.360
 different filters,

657
00:30:48.001 --> 00:30:48.903
 but also now,

658
00:30:48.904 --> 00:30:49.364
 at the end,

659
00:30:49.365 --> 00:30:50.723
 there are space cameras.

660
00:30:50.724 --> 00:30:52.309
 There are many who are asking for it,

661
00:30:52.310 --> 00:30:56.309
 and I think that will be a big thing here in the short term.

662
00:30:56.310 --> 00:31:03.340
 A lot of Earth observation and many who want to build constellations where you simply want to sell your image data.

663
00:31:04.012 --> 00:31:07.262
 And there are many examples of this here in the north where it happens,

664
00:31:07.263 --> 00:31:09.543
 and it will probably grow quickly now.

665
00:31:09.908 --> 00:31:12.531
 Especially when the environment is like that and

666
00:31:13.252 --> 00:31:21.463
 Europe and the Nordic countries realize that we need to be more responsible for our own space capacity and not just be dependent on other countries.

667
00:31:21.502 --> 00:31:22.564
 Read USA.

668
00:31:25.846 --> 00:31:29.971
We talked a little about what kind of customers you have.

669
00:31:29.972 --> 00:31:32.830
 And we talked about that you are within defense and space.

670
00:31:32.846 --> 00:31:35.080
 Those two areas,

671
00:31:35.081 --> 00:31:35.533
 defense and space,

672
00:31:35.534 --> 00:31:37.799
 became more and more that they...

673
00:31:38.314 --> 00:31:39.074
 glider ihop.

674
00:31:39.255 --> 00:31:42.095
 Hur arbetar ni med det och hur ser det ut för er,

675
00:31:42.593 --> 00:31:43.234
 den omställningen?

676
00:31:43.535 --> 00:31:43.656
Ja,

677
00:31:43.816 --> 00:31:45.015
 det är precis som du säger.

678
00:31:45.035 --> 00:31:52.320
 Det är ju ofta dual use och om vi då tar exemplet med satelliter som kan titta på jorden uppifrån,

679
00:31:52.336 --> 00:31:57.625
 då kan du betrakta klimatet till exempel och temperaturer i havet,

680
00:31:57.718 --> 00:32:00.203
 miljöutsläpp och annat sånt där.

681
00:32:00.297 --> 00:32:00.843
 Men ja visst.

682
00:32:01.226 --> 00:32:05.890
 If you direct the cameras and your satellite in another direction,

683
00:32:05.909 --> 00:32:08.093
 you can see where the enemies are.

684
00:32:08.151 --> 00:32:11.878
 There are different sensors for this.

685
00:32:14.042 --> 00:32:14.300
 For us,

686
00:32:15.058 --> 00:32:16.643
 it's really the same.

687
00:32:16.925 --> 00:32:20.878
 It's about the risk appetite.

688
00:32:20.879 --> 00:32:28.456
 We can probably understand that since the development is going this way and there is more security,

689
00:32:28.457 --> 00:32:28.972
 so kanske

690
00:32:29.702 --> 00:32:30.042
 Kanske.

691
00:32:30.283 --> 00:32:30.623
 Jag vet inte.

692
00:32:30.763 --> 00:32:37.149
 Har det en påverkan att man har lite lägre riskaptit inom militära sammanhang?

693
00:32:37.309 --> 00:32:38.333
 Vilket gör att man...

694
00:32:38.349 --> 00:32:39.114
 Nej,

695
00:32:39.208 --> 00:32:45.966
 vi vill inte att det blir stillestånd precis när satelliten passerar det vi vill titta på.

696
00:32:46.419 --> 00:32:48.153
 Det kan vara ganska livsavgörande.

697
00:32:48.263 --> 00:32:55.841
 Så att man kanske satsar på lite högre klassning av utrustningen än vad vi tidigare har sett.

698
00:32:55.903 --> 00:32:58.606
 Om det bara handlar om något mer civilt.

699
00:32:59.338 --> 00:33:04.221
 You simply need to find what you're going to do on the right turn on the satellite,

700
00:33:04.264 --> 00:33:07.045
 otherwise people can come along if you push with a cast.

701
00:33:07.065 --> 00:33:08.229
 So that might be the case.

702
00:33:08.230 --> 00:33:08.947
 And now,

703
00:33:08.948 --> 00:33:10.791
as you mentioned,

704
00:33:10.807 --> 00:33:11.893
 not only in Sweden,

705
00:33:11.894 --> 00:33:13.229
 but also in Sweden,

706
00:33:13.230 --> 00:33:14.690
 there is a lot of effort on space now,

707
00:33:14.691 --> 00:33:16.635
 and has been done in recent years,

708
00:33:16.697 --> 00:33:21.400
 both extra money for defense and extra money in the civilian.

709
00:33:21.541 --> 00:33:23.900
 But what would you need,

710
00:33:23.901 --> 00:33:28.260
 or what would you like to see that Sweden did to facilitate?

711
00:33:28.782 --> 00:33:29.924
 Not just for you,

712
00:33:29.925 --> 00:33:31.945
 but for your industry,

713
00:33:32.025 --> 00:33:34.248
 to be able to develop in this climate that we have now.

714
00:33:34.467 --> 00:33:36.693
We can make a sparring that we see,

715
00:33:36.732 --> 00:33:37.350
 for example,

716
00:33:37.351 --> 00:33:38.295
 that in Finland,

717
00:33:38.412 --> 00:33:42.498
 the so-called ecosystem that has been built up there,

718
00:33:42.499 --> 00:33:45.162
 perhaps again in quotation marks,

719
00:33:45.178 --> 00:33:48.943
 news-based related to several satellite manufacturers.

720
00:33:48.944 --> 00:33:52.709
 There we can probably look a little bit in Sweden how they have done there,

721
00:33:52.912 --> 00:33:53.990
 maybe in the UK.

722
00:33:54.734 --> 00:33:55.034
 Yes,

723
00:33:55.035 --> 00:33:57.077
 to a certain extent Norway and Denmark as well.

724
00:33:57.078 --> 00:34:00.622
 I think we are a bit behind here in Sweden.

725
00:34:01.059 --> 00:34:02.966
 And it's perhaps about speeding things up,

726
00:34:03.059 --> 00:34:05.325
 simplifying purchase processes.

727
00:34:05.903 --> 00:34:07.450
 And yes,

728
00:34:07.451 --> 00:34:08.770
 there are many nice words,

729
00:34:08.864 --> 00:34:10.169
 but that you really go to action.

730
00:34:10.208 --> 00:34:13.036
 And we who are a typical

731
00:34:13.770 --> 00:34:16.192
 SME, Small and Medium Sized Enterprise,

732
00:34:16.333 --> 00:34:20.661
 that you simplify for us to be involved in things and things.

733
00:34:20.692 --> 00:34:23.520
 And to speed up and invest.

734
00:34:24.470 --> 00:34:25.832
 Titta på Finland till exempel,

735
00:34:26.592 --> 00:34:28.273
 hur de har gjort och vad de gör där.

736
00:34:28.535 --> 00:34:29.875
 Det tror jag vi kan lära oss mer om.

737
00:34:30.574 --> 00:34:31.238
Framöver då,

738
00:34:33.222 --> 00:34:34.418
 vad ser du framåt?

739
00:34:34.457 --> 00:34:40.222
 Vad är nästa stora projekt som ni är med i eller som du skulle vilja arbeta inom?

740
00:34:40.707 --> 00:34:40.832
Ja,

741
00:34:41.019 --> 00:34:43.676
 det är ofta förknippat med lite sådana här

742
00:34:44.316 --> 00:34:45.988
 NDR och sekretess.

743
00:34:46.097 --> 00:34:49.441
 Vi förhindrar då att nämna de här projekten.

744
00:34:49.613 --> 00:34:51.363
 Men man kan väl säga ungefär så här då.

745
00:34:52.346 --> 00:35:02.227
 We see a very rapid growth with constellations where companies that not only want to build the satellite,

746
00:35:02.266 --> 00:35:06.969
 but also want to take help and send it up with a bearing rocket.

747
00:35:07.086 --> 00:35:08.977
 But then you want to handle your satellite.

748
00:35:09.352 --> 00:35:11.195
 The longer it is up there,

749
00:35:11.305 --> 00:35:12.977
 the longer it generates data.

750
00:35:13.445 --> 00:35:15.445
 And it's this data that you want to sell.

751
00:35:15.508 --> 00:35:17.805
 And the longer you are up there,

752
00:35:17.806 --> 00:35:20.570
 you suddenly get a bonus effect on that.

753
00:35:21.038 --> 00:35:23.580
 And there is a very rapid growth,

754
00:35:23.581 --> 00:35:26.023
 often within low earth orbit,

755
00:35:26.082 --> 00:35:31.629
 that you want to build your own constellations of Nordic or Swedish satellites.

756
00:35:32.152 --> 00:35:33.973
 There we see growth,

757
00:35:34.012 --> 00:35:35.410
 without a doubt.

758
00:35:35.434 --> 00:35:36.137
 And as I said,

759
00:35:37.277 --> 00:35:43.106
 this with cameras I think can be an interesting addition to what we have done before.

760
00:35:43.107 --> 00:35:44.606
But then I wonder,

761
00:35:44.607 --> 00:35:47.090
 you mentioned this earlier,

762
00:35:47.091 --> 00:35:47.965
 you are around...

763
00:35:49.514 --> 00:35:51.236
 on several sites in the solar system.

764
00:35:52.416 --> 00:35:55.940
 How is it when you're there?

765
00:35:56.061 --> 00:35:59.264
 Do you follow along and check how it goes in all these missions?

766
00:35:59.405 --> 00:35:59.920
 Or is it like,

767
00:35:59.921 --> 00:36:01.045
 you deliver and then it's done?

768
00:36:01.069 --> 00:36:01.186
 No,

769
00:36:01.264 --> 00:36:03.350
but we're a little more nerdy.

770
00:36:03.389 --> 00:36:07.811
 We want to see how it goes and so on.

771
00:36:07.905 --> 00:36:09.639
 We follow along with that.

772
00:36:09.655 --> 00:36:12.264
 We who work here,

773
00:36:12.265 --> 00:36:14.202
 it's not everyone who has an engineering background,

774
00:36:14.217 --> 00:36:17.655
 but there is a space interest.

775
00:36:17.686 --> 00:36:18.702
 That's a big advantage.

776
00:36:20.355 --> 00:36:24.480
 It's very exciting to see how the development goes here.

777
00:36:24.500 --> 00:36:29.804
 We're happy to follow along.

778
00:36:29.843 --> 00:36:29.984
Yes,

779
00:36:30.047 --> 00:36:30.984
 we do.

780
00:36:30.985 --> 00:36:32.804
 And follow along as well,

781
00:36:32.805 --> 00:36:34.312
 so we move on with our journey.

782
00:36:34.351 --> 00:36:40.750
 Because while Henrik and his team in Sweden deliver electronics that survive in space,

783
00:36:40.751 --> 00:36:46.843
 others are sitting at different places all over the world and planning future collaborations.

784
00:36:47.299 --> 00:36:51.431
One of them is Stefan Ullamets on the German space organization DLR.

785
00:36:52.096 --> 00:36:54.744
 And with him we take us back to the small missions.

786
00:36:55.669 --> 00:36:57.791
 Stefan was project manager at Rosetta.

787
00:36:58.051 --> 00:37:01.094
 He worked with the German part of Hayabusa 2.

788
00:37:01.095 --> 00:37:04.457
 And he is research manager for the destroyer Idefix,

789
00:37:04.574 --> 00:37:08.340
 which is part of JAXA's Mars Moon Mission MMX to Phobos,

790
00:37:08.363 --> 00:37:10.567
 which Masaki Fujimoto talked about earlier.

791
00:37:11.645 --> 00:37:14.926
So now we dig down a little more into that.

792
00:37:14.927 --> 00:37:16.973
 And we start as usual from the beginning.

793
00:37:17.832 --> 00:37:18.270
 Stefan,

794
00:37:18.957 --> 00:37:20.973
 what was the first big mission you worked on?

795
00:37:21.453 --> 00:37:22.313
In this respect,

796
00:37:22.374 --> 00:37:22.614
 indeed,

797
00:37:22.633 --> 00:37:23.013
 it was

798
00:37:23.593 --> 00:37:26.474
 Rosetta, so the mission to a comet.

799
00:37:27.115 --> 00:37:28.833
 I was involved for 20 years.

800
00:37:29.134 --> 00:37:29.275
 In

801
00:37:29.775 --> 00:37:33.314
 2004, the mission was launched,

802
00:37:33.337 --> 00:37:35.556
 and then it took 10 years of cruise,

803
00:37:36.212 --> 00:37:37.298
 wide as it takes along,

804
00:37:38.572 --> 00:37:40.791
 in contrast to the Giotto mission,

805
00:37:41.259 --> 00:37:42.291
 but also some other

806
00:37:42.634 --> 00:37:43.541
 NASA missions.

807
00:37:44.337 --> 00:37:45.744
 We wanted to rendezvous,

808
00:37:45.775 --> 00:37:50.900
 or we wanted to have our spacecraft on the identical orbit around the Sun and not just have a quick...

809
00:37:51.501 --> 00:37:54.021
 flyby with high relative velocity.

810
00:37:54.202 --> 00:37:56.861
 So we had to have several swing-by manoeuvres,

811
00:37:57.103 --> 00:37:57.884
 three at the Earth,

812
00:37:58.001 --> 00:37:58.622
 one at Mars.

813
00:37:59.603 --> 00:38:01.423
 And that's why it took that long,

814
00:38:01.665 --> 00:38:02.720
 10 years altogether,

815
00:38:02.947 --> 00:38:07.142
 until in 2014 we eventually reached the comet.

816
00:38:07.181 --> 00:38:11.212
 Then we had not too much time to characterise the comet.

817
00:38:11.244 --> 00:38:13.587
 We didn't know very much before we were there.

818
00:38:13.665 --> 00:38:15.494
 No idea about the shape,

819
00:38:16.072 --> 00:38:17.869
 not at all about the surface properties

820
00:38:19.086 --> 00:38:22.028
 And then after characterizing the surface,

821
00:38:22.150 --> 00:38:24.751
 finding a landing spot,

822
00:38:25.993 --> 00:38:27.575
 there was the Philae landing,

823
00:38:27.630 --> 00:38:29.458
 first landing on a comet.

824
00:38:30.099 --> 00:38:30.614
 And of course,

825
00:38:30.896 --> 00:38:32.638
 this mission,

826
00:38:32.716 --> 00:38:37.427
 which really formed our understanding of comets until now,

827
00:38:37.989 --> 00:38:39.802
 and data are still evaluated,

828
00:38:39.849 --> 00:38:45.458
 publications are still written about the comet and using the data of Rosetta,

829
00:38:45.958 --> 00:38:47.630
 this triggered some other

830
00:38:47.869 --> 00:38:49.631
 activities to small bodies,

831
00:38:49.671 --> 00:38:51.252
 including asteroids,

832
00:38:52.594 --> 00:38:54.055
 like for instance Hayabusa 2,

833
00:38:54.195 --> 00:38:59.578
 where we were invited by our Japanese friends to have a much smaller lander than Philae,

834
00:39:00.062 --> 00:39:01.203
 10 kilogram lander,

835
00:39:01.984 --> 00:39:02.461
 mascot,

836
00:39:02.586 --> 00:39:03.586
 which landed on

837
00:39:04.883 --> 00:39:07.289
 Ryugu in 2018.

838
00:39:08.148 --> 00:39:10.977
 And even further following this tradition now,

839
00:39:11.789 --> 00:39:13.695
 we are going to another small body,

840
00:39:13.789 --> 00:39:15.602
 this time not really an asteroid,

841
00:39:15.664 --> 00:39:16.383
 not a comet,

842
00:39:16.430 --> 00:39:16.742
 but a

843
00:39:17.057 --> 00:39:17.578
 A moon,

844
00:39:18.058 --> 00:39:18.579
 Phobos,

845
00:39:18.739 --> 00:39:21.363
 the quite small moon of Mars,

846
00:39:21.500 --> 00:39:25.367
 where we hope to be launching in 2026.

847
00:39:25.609 --> 00:39:29.046
So we talked to your colleague from JAXA about the MMX mission.

848
00:39:29.109 --> 00:39:30.234
 So tell us more about your part.

849
00:39:30.710 --> 00:39:32.414
This time it's not just a lander,

850
00:39:32.554 --> 00:39:33.750
 it is a rover.

851
00:39:33.953 --> 00:39:37.390
 So it's a little car with four wheels.

852
00:39:38.421 --> 00:39:44.156
 The strategy to bring it to Phobos is a bit similar to the mascot structure,

853
00:39:44.937 --> 00:39:45.984
 the strategy.

854
00:39:46.749 --> 00:39:47.530
 So MMX,

855
00:39:47.671 --> 00:39:49.093
 the main spacecraft,

856
00:39:49.171 --> 00:39:53.276
 will also be able to deliver us from a low altitude,

857
00:39:53.597 --> 00:39:53.975
 range of

858
00:39:54.397 --> 00:39:55.354
 50 meter or so,

859
00:39:55.534 --> 00:39:56.378
 to the surface.

860
00:39:56.698 --> 00:39:59.003
 We can be dropped from there.

861
00:39:59.620 --> 00:40:00.886
 Gravity of Phobos,

862
00:40:00.940 --> 00:40:01.222
 again,

863
00:40:01.464 --> 00:40:02.042
 is low,

864
00:40:02.182 --> 00:40:06.784
 so it's no real danger to damage the rover.

865
00:40:07.925 --> 00:40:09.487
 It will bounce several times,

866
00:40:09.518 --> 00:40:10.331
 as we expect,

867
00:40:10.393 --> 00:40:11.112
 on the surface,

868
00:40:11.128 --> 00:40:12.972
 and then it will upright itself.

869
00:40:13.873 --> 00:40:15.515
 This time with a different mechanism.

870
00:40:15.736 --> 00:40:17.177
 I said it has wheels.

871
00:40:17.257 --> 00:40:19.279
 The wheels are on legs.

872
00:40:19.818 --> 00:40:23.826
 And by a smart sequence of deploying these legs,

873
00:40:24.224 --> 00:40:27.544
 irrespective of where the rover comes to rest,

874
00:40:27.685 --> 00:40:29.591
 it will upright itself.

875
00:40:29.732 --> 00:40:32.607
 And if everything works as we've planned and simulated,

876
00:40:33.513 --> 00:40:34.888
 at the end of this sequence,

877
00:40:34.919 --> 00:40:37.060
 it will stand on its four legs,

878
00:40:37.122 --> 00:40:38.154
 on the four wheels,

879
00:40:38.576 --> 00:40:40.904
 deploy a solar generator,

880
00:40:41.888 --> 00:40:42.919
 send data.

881
00:40:43.117 --> 00:40:43.737
 to ground,

882
00:40:44.298 --> 00:40:45.037
 camera data,

883
00:40:45.197 --> 00:40:45.658
 images,

884
00:40:45.697 --> 00:40:47.437
 so we know really the position,

885
00:40:47.476 --> 00:40:52.680
 we know the terrain around or at least in front of the rover and in principle then we can,

886
00:40:52.758 --> 00:40:53.836
 after some commissioning,

887
00:40:54.180 --> 00:40:56.383
 start moving like a car.

888
00:40:57.117 --> 00:41:00.023
 And it's the first time ever to have a rover,

889
00:41:00.148 --> 00:41:00.680
 a car,

890
00:41:01.273 --> 00:41:03.601
 on a body with such a low gravity.

891
00:41:03.789 --> 00:41:05.180
 Forbals gravity is about

892
00:41:05.648 --> 00:41:06.976
 1 over 2000,

893
00:41:07.445 --> 00:41:08.539
 the gravity on Earth,

894
00:41:09.070 --> 00:41:09.758
 so the weight,

895
00:41:09.867 --> 00:41:11.883
 the pressure you have on the surface is...

896
00:41:12.325 --> 00:41:12.566
 very,

897
00:41:12.626 --> 00:41:13.147
 very low.

898
00:41:14.268 --> 00:41:17.190
 That also means we can only rove very,

899
00:41:17.291 --> 00:41:18.010
 very slowly.

900
00:41:18.252 --> 00:41:22.475
 We're talking about millimeters per second,

901
00:41:22.537 --> 00:41:24.818
 so it's about the speed of a snail.

902
00:41:26.357 --> 00:41:26.803
 But still,

903
00:41:27.381 --> 00:41:28.654
 we can move,

904
00:41:28.717 --> 00:41:40.873
 and we hope to be able to move for several tens of meters in order to investigate the heterogeneity of the surface material to find possibly

905
00:41:41.209 --> 00:41:46.555
 geological features to investigate the surface properties,

906
00:41:46.614 --> 00:41:47.176
 for instance,

907
00:41:47.215 --> 00:41:49.454
 by imaging the tracks.

908
00:41:49.540 --> 00:41:54.579
 So how deep do the wheels dig into the soil or the grains?

909
00:41:54.580 --> 00:41:57.165
 We don't really know the surface properties yet.

910
00:41:57.680 --> 00:42:08.337
 And we also have a Raman spectrometer on board to get information on the mineralogy of single spots or single grains even underneath.

911
00:42:09.346 --> 00:42:09.826
 In addition,

912
00:42:09.846 --> 00:42:15.973
 we will measure the temperature range and also the temperature change between day and night.

913
00:42:16.512 --> 00:42:23.399
 And if you see how rapidly it chills down on the surface or the surface gets hotter when the sun rises,

914
00:42:23.860 --> 00:42:26.243
 you get information on the thermal conductivity.

915
00:42:26.789 --> 00:42:31.602
 And this again allows conclusions on the porosity and the structure,

916
00:42:31.711 --> 00:42:31.914
 again,

917
00:42:32.352 --> 00:42:36.274
 thermal physical properties of the surface material.

918
00:42:36.414 --> 00:42:37.149
 Something you...

919
00:42:37.337 --> 00:42:43.882
 cannot find out with the samples you return because obviously they are modified by the sampling process itself.

920
00:42:44.702 --> 00:42:47.226
Why do we want to know these things?

921
00:42:47.905 --> 00:42:48.046
Well,

922
00:42:48.085 --> 00:42:48.609
 these things,

923
00:42:48.929 --> 00:42:50.609
 it's a variety of reasons.

924
00:42:50.991 --> 00:42:52.288
 For the Phobos mission,

925
00:42:52.351 --> 00:42:56.491
 there is the question really related to Phobos itself,

926
00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:06.663
 because there is some controversial discussion about the origin of Phobos and the other moon of Mars.

927
00:43:07.830 --> 00:43:09.452
 If you look at the spectrum,

928
00:43:09.711 --> 00:43:10.432
 the color,

929
00:43:10.433 --> 00:43:10.932
 if you wish,

930
00:43:11.412 --> 00:43:12.233
 of the surface,

931
00:43:13.034 --> 00:43:15.334
 it looks like a primitive asteroid.

932
00:43:15.858 --> 00:43:19.702
 So the first idea was it's a captured asteroid.

933
00:43:20.959 --> 00:43:22.045
 Same for Deimos.

934
00:43:22.608 --> 00:43:24.108
 But if you look at the orbits,

935
00:43:24.514 --> 00:43:26.373
 it's very close to the ecliptic.

936
00:43:26.514 --> 00:43:27.670
 It's a circular orbit,

937
00:43:27.764 --> 00:43:35.623
 and it's difficult to explain how one planet without another body can capture an asteroid.

938
00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:35.858
 Right.

939
00:43:36.045 --> 00:43:36.217
 It's,

940
00:43:36.342 --> 00:43:36.498
 it's.

941
00:43:37.001 --> 00:43:38.042
 dynamically difficult.

942
00:43:38.542 --> 00:43:40.721
 There are scenarios how it would be possible.

943
00:43:40.821 --> 00:43:41.401
 For instance,

944
00:43:41.402 --> 00:43:42.881
 if you have a double asteroid,

945
00:43:43.003 --> 00:43:44.823
 one is ejected and one is captured,

946
00:43:45.104 --> 00:43:46.206
 you could explain that.

947
00:43:46.682 --> 00:43:48.487
 But it doesn't sound very probable,

948
00:43:48.924 --> 00:43:49.807
 not very likely.

949
00:43:50.026 --> 00:43:52.667
 And it happened at least twice because we have two moons.

950
00:43:52.917 --> 00:43:55.932
 And then the orbit is not somewhere,

951
00:43:56.260 --> 00:43:57.948
 but it's an almost circular orbit.

952
00:43:58.979 --> 00:44:02.089
 And it's very close to the ecliptic.

953
00:44:02.604 --> 00:44:05.682
 So the other idea is it originated

954
00:44:05.973 --> 00:44:07.455
 due to a huge impact,

955
00:44:07.754 --> 00:44:09.979
 a bit similar to our terrestrial moon.

956
00:44:10.998 --> 00:44:13.659
 And then several moons could have formed,

957
00:44:13.721 --> 00:44:15.924
 and some may have caused the ring,

958
00:44:16.221 --> 00:44:17.401
 which disappeared again.

959
00:44:17.706 --> 00:44:18.346
 Also Phobos,

960
00:44:18.409 --> 00:44:18.807
 by the way,

961
00:44:19.065 --> 00:44:20.088
 will disappear.

962
00:44:20.089 --> 00:44:21.690
 It gets closer and closer to Mars.

963
00:44:22.143 --> 00:44:22.471
 It will,

964
00:44:22.784 --> 00:44:24.112
 at some point in a few

965
00:44:24.518 --> 00:44:25.346
 10 million years,

966
00:44:25.690 --> 00:44:26.987
 probably disassemble,

967
00:44:27.049 --> 00:44:27.659
 cause a ring,

968
00:44:27.737 --> 00:44:29.893
 or disappear.

969
00:44:30.315 --> 00:44:31.299
 Deimos is different.

970
00:44:31.330 --> 00:44:33.784
 It's like our moon going outside.

971
00:44:34.127 --> 00:44:34.721
 That's the other.

972
00:44:35.405 --> 00:44:35.746
 theory,

973
00:44:35.846 --> 00:44:37.127
 which sounds plausible,

974
00:44:37.166 --> 00:44:38.428
 you can explain it.

975
00:44:39.428 --> 00:44:42.533
 But this does not explain the spectral behavior,

976
00:44:42.572 --> 00:44:44.451
 the color of the moon.

977
00:44:44.498 --> 00:44:45.779
 So it's a controversial,

978
00:44:46.139 --> 00:44:48.279
 whatever theory you favor,

979
00:44:48.318 --> 00:44:50.076
 there are some arguments against.

980
00:44:50.662 --> 00:44:51.826
 And with this mission,

981
00:44:52.326 --> 00:44:53.998
 including getting samples back,

982
00:44:54.123 --> 00:44:56.123
 which really should prove what it's made of,

983
00:44:56.139 --> 00:44:57.342
 is it Martian material?

984
00:44:58.029 --> 00:44:59.545
 Is it primitive material,

985
00:44:59.732 --> 00:45:01.936
 which originates from the the outer solar system,

986
00:45:02.592 --> 00:45:03.748
 we hope to...

987
00:45:04.085 --> 00:45:06.267
 clarify this question,

988
00:45:06.367 --> 00:45:15.994
 which is fascinating and will also teach us something about the principles of formation and moon formation of terrestrial planets.

989
00:45:17.322 --> 00:45:20.275
 If we go a step further for a more general,

990
00:45:20.369 --> 00:45:21.416
 why do we do this,

991
00:45:22.197 --> 00:45:25.822
 including the research of comets and asteroids,

992
00:45:26.525 --> 00:45:31.212
 those bodies are the relics of the early times of our solar system.

993
00:45:31.666 --> 00:45:33.181
 Comets probably being the

994
00:45:33.957 --> 00:45:36.740
 oldest objects in our solar systems,

995
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:39.485
 leftovers from the time of the formation.

996
00:45:40.281 --> 00:45:45.570
 So analyzing the material of comets shows us that the pristine,

997
00:45:45.571 --> 00:45:47.430
 the original material,

998
00:45:47.508 --> 00:45:51.735
 the original composition of the planetary nebula,

999
00:45:52.078 --> 00:45:53.641
 out of which the planets,

1000
00:45:53.672 --> 00:45:54.500
 including the Earth,

1001
00:45:54.563 --> 00:45:55.953
 but also the Sun in the center,

1002
00:45:56.297 --> 00:45:56.922
 have formed.

1003
00:45:56.953 --> 00:46:03.391
 And thus these are a clue to the understanding of the formation and evolution of the solar system.

1004
00:46:03.817 --> 00:46:04.298
 as a whole.

1005
00:46:04.578 --> 00:46:09.022
 So that's a more general scientific aspect.

1006
00:46:09.643 --> 00:46:12.748
 Another aspect again related to comets,

1007
00:46:12.803 --> 00:46:15.569
 but also primitive asteroids like Ryugu,

1008
00:46:15.670 --> 00:46:18.514
 where there is a lot of organic material in there,

1009
00:46:19.014 --> 00:46:22.342
 is related to our understanding of the formation of life.

1010
00:46:23.233 --> 00:46:26.967
 The current understanding is that on the early Earth,

1011
00:46:27.014 --> 00:46:30.201
 when it has chilled down after a very early phase,

1012
00:46:30.248 --> 00:46:32.826
 where you can imagine the you're used to be a bubbling.

1013
00:46:33.205 --> 00:46:34.086
 piece of lava,

1014
00:46:35.348 --> 00:46:39.352
 differentiating so that the iron and the heavy components forming the core,

1015
00:46:39.391 --> 00:46:40.973
 but outside it was very hot.

1016
00:46:41.133 --> 00:46:43.797
 No complex molecules could have survived.

1017
00:46:44.133 --> 00:46:44.813
 And then the Earth,

1018
00:46:45.977 --> 00:46:46.898
 also the other planets,

1019
00:46:47.641 --> 00:46:48.258
 chilled down.

1020
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:51.703
 And then there was a bombardment by primitive body,

1021
00:46:51.781 --> 00:46:52.578
 like asteroids,

1022
00:46:52.641 --> 00:46:53.281
 like comets,

1023
00:46:53.344 --> 00:46:54.453
 bringing water,

1024
00:46:54.625 --> 00:46:56.313
 bringing organic material.

1025
00:46:56.875 --> 00:46:59.109
 And the understanding is that these organics,

1026
00:46:59.938 --> 00:47:02.531
 which then impacted on the early Earth,

1027
00:47:03.121 --> 00:47:06.967
 allowed the formation of even more complex molecules,

1028
00:47:06.989 --> 00:47:08.610
 including amino acids,

1029
00:47:09.333 --> 00:47:09.571
 RNA,

1030
00:47:10.032 --> 00:47:10.454
 DNA,

1031
00:47:11.239 --> 00:47:11.473
 fish,

1032
00:47:11.575 --> 00:47:12.020
 frogs,

1033
00:47:12.317 --> 00:47:12.700
 humans.

1034
00:47:13.583 --> 00:47:15.200
 So it's...

1035
00:47:16.338 --> 00:47:22.164
 key element for our understanding how could life form about 3,

1036
00:47:22.285 --> 00:47:25.071
 3.2 billion years ago.

1037
00:47:25.383 --> 00:47:25.508
 So,

1038
00:47:26.391 --> 00:47:27.727
 origin of the solar system,

1039
00:47:28.328 --> 00:47:29.274
 origin of life,

1040
00:47:29.594 --> 00:47:33.789
 that's what we are really behind if we try to better understand comets,

1041
00:47:34.321 --> 00:47:35.539
 primitive asteroids,

1042
00:47:36.461 --> 00:47:39.274
 and Phobos being an example which is a moon,

1043
00:47:39.367 --> 00:47:45.961
 but it may also be a primitive asteroid and it's also a small body and is one of the the puzzle

1044
00:47:46.242 --> 00:47:50.524
 elements to better understand the evolution of our solar system.

1045
00:47:51.743 --> 00:47:55.961
Is it remotely controlled or is it totally automatic?

1046
00:47:56.625 --> 00:47:59.368
We will control it from Europe.

1047
00:47:59.383 --> 00:48:00.649
 There's two control centers,

1048
00:48:00.829 --> 00:48:01.547
 one here at

1049
00:48:01.922 --> 00:48:04.633
 DLR, where we are sitting just downstairs here.

1050
00:48:05.461 --> 00:48:09.383
 There is another one in Toulouse from where we can operate the rover,

1051
00:48:09.524 --> 00:48:13.805
 where we can send commands and where we will receive the telemetry.

1052
00:48:14.130 --> 00:48:14.991
 All telemetry,

1053
00:48:15.291 --> 00:48:19.334
 all commands will be relayed via the Japanese mothership.

1054
00:48:19.635 --> 00:48:22.803
 And it will also go through the Japanese control center.

1055
00:48:22.842 --> 00:48:25.959
 But we prepare the commands and we analyze the telemetry.

1056
00:48:26.482 --> 00:48:29.006
So after landing,

1057
00:48:29.107 --> 00:48:30.568
 how long is the mission?

1058
00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:31.412
 Not in meters,

1059
00:48:31.490 --> 00:48:32.240
 but in time.

1060
00:48:32.490 --> 00:48:36.396
 For how long will you be on the surface and working?

1061
00:48:37.646 --> 00:48:37.928
Okay,

1062
00:48:38.193 --> 00:48:41.178
 we have a little bit artificial.

1063
00:48:42.510 --> 00:48:43.211
 requirement,

1064
00:48:43.271 --> 00:48:45.054
 which is now 100 days.

1065
00:48:45.452 --> 00:48:49.097
 But if the rover is healthy and operating for 100 days,

1066
00:48:49.175 --> 00:48:53.440
 there is no good reason why it shouldn't work for 110 days or so.

1067
00:48:54.003 --> 00:48:57.901
 It cannot work there forever because we need the main spacecraft as a relay.

1068
00:48:59.729 --> 00:49:04.948
 But we hope that we can even extend this period.

1069
00:49:05.839 --> 00:49:06.589
 In terms of META,

1070
00:49:07.120 --> 00:49:08.448
 you were not asking the question.

1071
00:49:09.150 --> 00:49:15.797
 I appreciate it because how far we can drive will strongly depend on the surface material,

1072
00:49:15.817 --> 00:49:16.676
 the property,

1073
00:49:17.598 --> 00:49:19.043
 the grain size,

1074
00:49:19.137 --> 00:49:20.918
 the slopes we face there.

1075
00:49:21.582 --> 00:49:25.324
 So we cannot really say now in meters how far we are going.

1076
00:49:25.387 --> 00:49:28.371
 That's dependent on the area we find.

1077
00:49:28.871 --> 00:49:32.981
So then we're looking forward to the launch of the MMX mission.

1078
00:49:33.496 --> 00:49:36.340
 So do you have any more missions for the future?

1079
00:49:36.594 --> 00:49:36.754
Well,

1080
00:49:36.774 --> 00:49:37.915
 there is other missions.

1081
00:49:37.935 --> 00:49:39.138
 We are involved,

1082
00:49:39.157 --> 00:49:39.778
 for instance,

1083
00:49:39.856 --> 00:49:40.138
 in the

1084
00:49:40.720 --> 00:49:42.278
 HERA mission from ESA.

1085
00:49:42.782 --> 00:49:46.524
 And this mission will go to the double asteroid Didymos.

1086
00:49:46.602 --> 00:49:49.423
 You may remember the NASA mission DART,

1087
00:49:49.931 --> 00:50:05.720
 which has successfully impacted on the moon of a double asteroid to demonstrate whether we are able to modify the orbit of a potentially dangerous asteroid that may hit

1088
00:50:05.990 --> 00:50:06.630
 hit the Earth.

1089
00:50:07.151 --> 00:50:10.390
 Didymos itself is not dangerous to hit the Earth,

1090
00:50:10.453 --> 00:50:11.749
 but it was a demonstration.

1091
00:50:12.152 --> 00:50:13.132
 And the European part,

1092
00:50:13.191 --> 00:50:13.472
 HERA,

1093
00:50:13.550 --> 00:50:14.554
 to be launched this year,

1094
00:50:15.195 --> 00:50:15.874
 will go there,

1095
00:50:15.992 --> 00:50:17.413
 investigate the system,

1096
00:50:18.070 --> 00:50:19.070
 the Didymos system,

1097
00:50:19.117 --> 00:50:20.132
 and also investigate,

1098
00:50:20.133 --> 00:50:20.593
 for instance,

1099
00:50:20.617 --> 00:50:24.374
 the crater the NASA DART impact has made on

1100
00:50:24.890 --> 00:50:29.890
 Dimorphos. And we hope to have a follow-on mission in this respect,

1101
00:50:30.796 --> 00:50:32.578
 not only focusing on signs,

1102
00:50:32.656 --> 00:50:33.703
 but as I said,

1103
00:50:33.953 --> 00:50:35.343
 planetary protection.

1104
00:50:37.003 --> 00:50:37.905
 called Ramses,

1105
00:50:38.084 --> 00:50:40.006
 and it should go to

1106
00:50:40.385 --> 00:50:43.631
 Apophis, which is an asteroid flying very,

1107
00:50:43.690 --> 00:50:46.170
 very close to the Earth on

1108
00:50:46.631 --> 00:50:47.772
 Friday 13th

1109
00:50:48.811 --> 00:50:52.139
 April 2029.

1110
00:50:52.140 --> 00:50:55.623
 And for a while it was thought it may even hit the Earth,

1111
00:50:55.701 --> 00:50:57.280
 which would have been very dramatic.

1112
00:50:57.358 --> 00:50:59.045
 Now we know it will miss the Earth,

1113
00:50:59.451 --> 00:51:04.889
 but it will give us a unique opportunity to observe an object that is really just...

1114
00:51:06.123 --> 00:51:06.283
 Yeah,

1115
00:51:06.464 --> 00:51:08.805
 flying by just above our heads,

1116
00:51:09.626 --> 00:51:12.610
 closer than the geostationary satellites,

1117
00:51:12.669 --> 00:51:13.110
 by the way,

1118
00:51:13.169 --> 00:51:13.649
 so really,

1119
00:51:13.727 --> 00:51:14.329
 really close.

1120
00:51:14.673 --> 00:51:17.712
 And we are looking for having a mission,

1121
00:51:17.798 --> 00:51:18.313
 Ramses,

1122
00:51:18.454 --> 00:51:27.016
 to investigate this body and also investigate the modification due to some tidal forces during this flyby.

1123
00:51:28.188 --> 00:51:29.001
 Other missions are,

1124
00:51:29.048 --> 00:51:29.813
 for instance,

1125
00:51:29.891 --> 00:51:34.016
 the ESA mission Comet Interceptor to be launched in...

1126
00:51:36.203 --> 00:51:44.430
 where a space probe will be waiting in a Lagrange point for a long period of comet to come.

1127
00:51:44.891 --> 00:51:46.734
 And once it's discovered,

1128
00:51:46.813 --> 00:51:49.875
 we can go there with a flyby of course,

1129
00:51:49.914 --> 00:51:50.734
 not like Rosetta,

1130
00:51:51.094 --> 00:51:58.047
 but with a flyby and this will be a completely fresh comet which ideally has never passed by the Sun yet.

1131
00:51:58.391 --> 00:52:00.781
 So it will be completely unmodified.

1132
00:52:01.109 --> 00:52:03.344
 So that's at the moment what we...

1133
00:52:03.890 --> 00:52:05.814
 We have in the pipeline,

1134
00:52:06.134 --> 00:52:08.279
 but of course whenever there is an opportunity,

1135
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:13.966
 for instance to contribute in a NASA New Frontiers or Discovery mission or in a

1136
00:52:14.849 --> 00:52:15.888
 JAXA mission,

1137
00:52:16.373 --> 00:52:20.904
 there are plans to have missions after MMX like Hayabusa 3,

1138
00:52:21.763 --> 00:52:23.263
 having a comet.

1139
00:52:23.750 --> 00:52:25.011
 Sample return mission.

1140
00:52:26.093 --> 00:52:29.214
 So nothing of this is fixed or approved right now,

1141
00:52:29.276 --> 00:52:33.460
 but we are in early phases in preparing proposals.

1142
00:52:33.601 --> 00:52:33.843
 And,

1143
00:52:34.702 --> 00:52:35.163
 of course,

1144
00:52:35.164 --> 00:52:44.726
 we would be very happy to have the opportunity again to contribute to missions of our friends in Japan or NASA or ESA,

1145
00:52:44.788 --> 00:52:45.491
 if there is another

1146
00:52:45.897 --> 00:52:46.491
 ESA mission,

1147
00:52:46.538 --> 00:52:48.679
 to come beyond those I just mentioned.

1148
00:52:54.345 --> 00:52:54.966
Yes,

1149
00:52:54.985 --> 00:52:58.493
 of course there will be more collaborations in the future.

1150
00:52:58.532 --> 00:53:01.696
 And of course Sweden will be more involved.

1151
00:53:01.697 --> 00:53:02.149
 And as I said,

1152
00:53:02.196 --> 00:53:03.337
 we are involved.

1153
00:53:04.095 --> 00:53:07.915
 Henrik Plymforssell gave us examples of techniques on various missions.

1154
00:53:07.946 --> 00:53:11.196
 And in the coming episode we visit IRF,

1155
00:53:11.197 --> 00:53:13.665
 the Institute for Space Physics,

1156
00:53:13.666 --> 00:53:16.571
 which has several collaborations with both DLR,

1157
00:53:16.915 --> 00:53:19.696
 JAXA and ESA and others.

1158
00:53:19.728 --> 00:53:20.290
 That's going to be great.

1159
00:53:20.947 --> 00:53:21.888
Yes,

1160
00:53:22.028 --> 00:53:24.829
 and another thing that's fun is that we've released a book.

1161
00:53:25.352 --> 00:53:25.470
Yes,

1162
00:53:25.471 --> 00:53:26.032
 of course.

1163
00:53:26.052 --> 00:53:26.954
 The book,

1164
00:53:27.333 --> 00:53:28.395
 Have We Walked to Marsen,

1165
00:53:28.731 --> 00:53:34.903
 is based on the content of this series and can be bought at a discounted price directly from our publisher,

1166
00:53:34.904 --> 00:53:35.505
 Fritanke.

1167
00:53:36.317 --> 00:53:41.661
So go to fritanke.se and use the discount code MARS20 and you'll get 20%

1168
00:53:41.662 --> 00:53:43.302
 discount on the book.

1169
00:53:43.333 --> 00:53:47.973
So it's Mars with a little m and 20 with numbers,

1170
00:53:47.989 --> 00:53:49.442
 without a gap.

1171
00:53:49.473 --> 00:53:49.848
 like.

1172
00:53:50.266 --> 00:53:52.649
You can find all the information you need on our website,

1173
00:53:52.909 --> 00:53:54.489
 havioaktimarsen.se.

1174
00:53:55.051 --> 00:53:58.938
 There you can also find all our episodes and links to our different series.

1175
00:53:59.274 --> 00:54:00.078
And our music.

1176
00:54:00.618 --> 00:54:02.297
 It's written by Armin Pendek.

1177
00:54:02.555 --> 00:54:03.821
My name is Marcus Pettersson.

1178
00:54:03.822 --> 00:54:06.063
My name is Susanna Levenhaupt.

1179
00:54:06.282 --> 00:54:08.000
Havioaktimarsen is made possible by Beppo,

1180
00:54:08.297 --> 00:54:11.110
 Avrundfunk Media in collaboration with Saab.

1181
00:54:29.354 --> 00:54:29.575
Hello,

1182
00:54:29.655 --> 00:54:32.221
 the program is made by

1183
00:54:32.782 --> 00:54:34.047
 Rundfunk Media.