Let's go,
let's do it,
let's work with the client.
In big corporations,
I had to learn patience.
When you work in a small company,
you need to bring money to assure the paycheck for every employee.
If you're eager to learn,
more and more tech companies are hiring non-tech profiles for management jobs,
project management,
customer success,
even technical account management.
After a few years,
when you start to really learn the technical aspects,
you can move to tech.
And I remember a big deal,
it was
20 million dollar deals.
that was assigned to me and we knew nothing about it.
How come we don't know?
It's a big contract,
it's a big client.
Do not listen too much to the noise around you.
Go beyond.
Try to see what's happening with the client.
Just do not rely on some reports you have read about the client.
Learn the processes,
learn how the company is working.
But just bear in mind that I'm not a tech guy.
I don't have a background in tech.
And then what I see is that they are also very interested in the commercial document.
from SaaS to CyberSec and then to API management.
Our special guest has been in Romania since more than 12 years.
He had experience in major tech companies and now he will share his insight with us.
We are very happy to welcome Pierre de Bozy.
Hi Pierre,
thank you for being with us for this new episode of
La Franche Tech On Air
Romanian Touch,
a new podcast we will record today.
We are very happy to have you with us.
And first of all,
can you please introduce yourself to what...
Why are you in Romania?
Who are you?
What are you doing?
Thanks,
Grégoire and the team for having me here.
So
I'm Pierre,
I'm 35 years old and I just,
well,
I came first time in Romania in 2012.
That's a lot of time.
I worked in mainly some SMEs and startups and then I moved to big tech.
And I describe myself as a polyglot,
a marathon runner and a very curious guy.
And what made you choose to come to Romania as a first site?
This is thanks to a great program called the Voluntaria Internacional en Entreprise.
So it's like an international volunteership program ruled by business force.
And that really made me come to Romania thanks to a good contract,
good conditions.
And actually,
a lot of young people coming to Romania are coming through this contract.
Okay,
good.
So now we know...
how you arrived here,
how you landed in Bucharest.
Yep.
And can you tell us more about your connection to the tech environment or the tech industry?
Yeah,
so
I'm not a tech guy at all.
You know,
I'm like Grégoire says sometimes,
he's French,
but not tech.
I'm kind of the same profile.
And I came to tech,
in fact,
during COVID,
I was working for a listed French company working in engineering.
I was manager of project by that time,
and we were struggling with the automotive market,
obviously,
during COVID.
And I started to think what we could do to expand our sales actions.
And with the team,
we came to the conclusion to make some phone calls to the IT ecosystems.
Even if we already had an IT department doing that,
I was thinking that we should also put an effort there.
And I found a client.
I found my first client after a few weeks,
a month.
an American company with an office in Romania.
And when I looked at the negotiation and the offer we were making,
the figures were much bigger than in automotive.
So it made me think a bit that it's a profitable market,
available despite COVID.
And then a first contact came with a big tech company in Romania,
Oracle.
I can name them.
I think they really helped me to get into tech.
And this is how I learned to ascend your position in customer success,
taking care of tech clients.
So that was amazing.
Okay.
So basically,
at the start,
you don't have a background in tech,
but you saw an opportunity to put a step in.
Correct.
And then you improved your knowledges.
Correct.
So you learned.
Correct.
Until you became an expert and you know about what you're talking about.
Correct.
This is also a big advantage of working with corporations.
They have this huge.
machine of trainings and certifications.
I didn't know about what is the SaaS industry,
software as a service,
infrastructure as a service,
yes,
or platform as a service,
or many acronyms in the industry I have little knowledge about.
And they taught me a lot of things,
giving me also the opportunity to work with amazing clients,
big pharma,
big banks,
famous football club in Spain.
And those clients also,
they teach you a lot.
So you need to be really open to risk,
eager to learn,
but Big Corps really help you to do that.
Okay,
so the Big Corps help you to develop your skills?
Yep.
But did you also in your career had a chance or a way to work in medium-sized companies or in smaller companies?
Yeah,
actually at the beginning of my career I worked for SMEs and through the VEA program.
And
I did that for mainly seven,
eight years.
It really gives you the sense of accountability and ownership of your tasks.
When you work in a small company,
you need to bring money to,
you know,
to then assure the paycheck for every employee.
So this is really,
it has been for me a very,
very big step to make you realize how important it is also to execute and not only plan.
Which sometimes in big corps,
they plan a lot and they little execute.
That's a very funny topic too.
So what you are saying is when you're in an SME,
you are...
You are taking more risks.
Correct.
Because the company is on the way to grow and you have more challenges.
And when you're in a big corporation,
you will learn more on specific topics and manage bigger projects.
Correct.
Because the leverage is bigger than in an SME.
That's true.
That's really true.
And I think the main challenge is to be conscious of what is your current comfort zone in big tech or in big corporations.
Companies are making billions or hundreds of millions,
and it's true that you can have the feeling that your actions do not count that much.
Which,
in fact,
it's not true,
because at the end of the day,
your client is satisfied or not.
He will renew the contract or not.
It depends also on your work.
But the fact that when you send an email and you have in CC
15 stakeholders,
it can dissolve the accountability,
you see.
And in SME.
You are the only one to call the client,
you are the only one to take the project,
you are the only one to build the project,
or you have like maybe two or three people on that project.
So it really concentrates the sense of responsibility in SMEs.
So that's a big change between both models.
So you are more challenged in an SME,
but you are also challenged in a bigger corporation.
What kind of challenges can you face?
I think in big corporations,
I had to learn patience.
Because in SME,
if you want to grab a new client,
you just pick the phone,
you attack the market,
you do your own speech,
you do your own presentation,
you do your own PowerPoint,
you name it.
Well,
in big tech,
if you want to make a presentation for a big client,
you don't just go like that.
You need to work with marketing,
you need to work with product management,
sometimes R&D.
You really need a lot of approvals,
alignments,
meetings and meetings and...
and approvals from lots of hierarchical levels,
and you really need to have that patience.
The second,
I think,
is also that you act slower,
I think,
in big tech.
And also,
you also need to,
I think,
be a bit more political.
You need to have a more structured approach.
And also,
I would say in a nutshell,
see the big picture and make what you want to do very clear to the top management.
Because at the end of the day,
if you don't have the approval from them,
that will be difficult to move things.
And it has to be very clear for the people who decide.
Exactly.
If the project is finished,
you cannot take the best decision for the company.
Exactly.
So there is this chain of...
let's say accountability and management that you need to be aware of when you work in a big company versus the immediate action you can take in an SME by you know calling prospects doing your own thing so so it means you have more freedom when you work in a SME compared to a corporate yeah
yes but by the time I also learned to let's say play a bit with the rules in big techs for example you can use this fact that
Sometimes the accountability is so dissolved that you can be the only one to take ownership of actions.
And I remember a big deal,
a
$20 million deal that was assigned to me,
and we knew nothing about it.
When I asked,
when it was assigned to me,
I asked just,
OK,
what are we doing with this client?
What was the last step?
What's ongoing?
And what's the next step?
Simple.
And the answer I've got was like,
we don't know.
And I was like,
how come we don't know?
It's a big deal.
It's a big contract,
it's a big client.
So you see,
sometimes the lack of accountability and this responsibility,
which is kind of dissolved everywhere in the company,
can also...
help you if you are eager to take risks and ready to take actions.
So I contacted the CEO of the company and I asked him directly,
guys,
what are you doing with our product?
We have a big contract here.
What's happening?
I would like to help you.
Do you have challenges?
And he ended up with a very good commercial success.
But yeah,
you see,
it's...
So you can take freedom in big tech,
it means.
You have also to to provocate your chance.
Yeah,
you need to take risks sometimes and do not listen too much to the noise around you.
So is this a recommendation,
an advice you would give to a young person who wants to join a big tech?
Definitely,
definitely.
I think there are different steps.
I think the first step is to really master how the company works,
because you need to play by the rules at the beginning.
You have no choice.
So you really need to commit.
to learn the product,
to learn the processes,
to learn your market or the business plan you are assigned to.
Then,
when you really master that,
see the area where you can push yourself to also push the company to have better results.
If you just stick to the process,
I hear very often in big corporations,
I didn't get a promotion for five years.
Yeah,
but maybe because you just stick to the plan and stick to the process.
Go beyond.
Try to see what's happening with the client.
Just do not rely on some reports you have read about the client.
Talk to him.
Take risks.
Do a top-down approach.
Talk to their COO,
CIO,
CFO,
CHO.
Talk to the C-suite and see what's going to happen.
Make an impact.
If you just follow the flow,
you might discover after a few years that you maybe missed a chance.
Yes,
and the tech is evolving every day,
every second.
So you need to keep updated on each topic.
How do you manage to be sure that you know the latest information,
the latest news?
How are you getting this information?
Do you have some training inside the companies about it?
Do you learn on your own?
Corporations are very good at that,
especially the enterprise department.
The enterprise department are departments where the big deals are managed.
And they teach you.
how to draw,
inference mapping.
So basically,
you know at your clients who does what,
what is his background,
where do they come from.
So you really understand,
you have an in-depth understanding of what's happening for the internal environment of your client.
Those methodologies are amazing.
I mean,
if you get the chance to learn that,
it's really changing your approach of account management.
So this is for the internal,
let's say,
knowledge of the project.
And then you have also the external environment.
And here you need to do your homework.
Nobody is going to do that for you.
I had,
let's say,
the chance,
I don't know,
to work or so on a very challenging environment,
working with a Ukrainian client,
with Russian stakeholders.
You really need to be on point of what's happening in the world to have the right approach,
the right tone,
the right worlds,
you know,
because...
Again,
when you talk about big Ds and transformation projects,
you really need to be aware of all those aspects.
So internal project knowledge into the company,
yeah,
methodologies like inference mapping,
product knowledge,
those are taught in most corporations,
but they are not mandatory trainings.
So I go back again to follow the process,
follow the flow.
they are not mandatory trainings you had to apply i had to apply to those trainings actually now i remember so it was a proactive approach exactly exactly and we weren't that much i think we were 15 20 persons to take that course so yeah yeah yeah so it's
very important so to be to be internally prepared and externally with with the good knowledge of the environment and the language your client speaks if possible yeah okay the foreign language you mean
Yeah.
Or technical language?
Both,
actually.
But when I used to work also with a project in Argentina,
I used my Spanish skills to manage at least the introduction of the meeting,
taking notes in Spanish.
It's also a very big aspect.
Same for a stakeholder who was from Lithuania.
I know a bit of Lithuanian.
I started my email to say hello in Lithuanian.
Those are small things.
Preparation,
as you said,
that small preparation that can help you for,
yeah.
Yeah.
The...
the entire duration of the project.
So you started your career like eight years ago in the tech industry?
Yeah,
roughly,
yeah.
What?
What shocked you the most in the evolution of tech in your career?
The first thing that shocked me when I first moved to a tech job was the amount of information you can get in the corporation.
You mean data?
That data and also the amount of processes of people,
of departments.
You have companies working on CX,
ERP,
HCM,
different products,
cloud technology.
SaaS,
on-prem,
there are so many different components.
I remember my first three months in a big tech,
I was like learning a new language.
It's like learning a new language.
It's like you feel like you are back to school,
you are six years old,
and you start to learn how to read and how to write.
That's exactly the same in tech for me.
And it was no fear to arrive in such an environment?
Yeah,
I mean,
the fear I had at the beginning was the relationship with the client,
because in a senior position,
you really need to,
you know,
to bring assurance,
to show that you know what you are doing,
to show how to plan,
how to have a strategic approach with your clients.
So you really need,
and I also go back to what I've told you before regarding the processes.
First step,
learn the processes,
learn how the company is working.
That's fundamental.
And it's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work,
a lot of long hours,
a lot of long hours.
Yeah.
Okay,
so one of the advice is to give to someone who wants to join the tech industry is to don't be afraid if you don't understand anything.
Exactly,
exactly.
I have a finance background,
so I'm good with figures.
But
I didn't have a tech background.
But if you're eager to learn,
more and more tech companies are hiring non-tech profiles for management jobs,
project management,
customer success.
Even technical account management,
after a few years,
when you start to really learn the technical aspects,
you can move to tech,
pure tech positions,
even if you do not have a tech background in Romania.
There are a lot of profiles like that.
What someone who does not come from a tech management position can bring more compared to someone who comes from tech?
Why to make this choice?
That's a very,
very good question.
And actually,
I also asked that myself in my career when I got sometimes messages from LinkedIn from these presidents or leaders of tech company.
And they asked me,
would you like to drive our customer success department or would you be interested to be a director of project management?
And the first thing I always answer is that,
guys,
I would be happy to discuss.
But just bear in mind that I'm not a tech guy.
I don't have a background in tech.
And then what I see is that they are also very interested in the commercial acumen.
So the sales.
part of your skills,
the way you discover the client,
medic methodology or discovery methodologies,
and then the way you can understand the technology.
It doesn't mean that you know how to code.
I don't know how to code.
But the faster you can understand the technology.
I moved from SaaS to CyberSec and then to API management.
And I don't know how to code,
I don't know how to create a product,
but you need to be versatile and really be ready to understand the product,
the messaging of your product,
the impact of your product.
You do not need to be that tech.
And usually versus a tech profile that I've seen in companies who are more into the product,
and sometimes they have this fear that
don't launch the project it's not ready it's not ready it's not ready while a profile like mine would be more like let's go let's do it let's work with the client let's it's a different approach uh and i think i would i will i will ask that question to the next leader i will i will talk to because it's a very good question so
we come back to the to the point to take risk yeah and uh not to stay on the at your place but to to have no fear to to move a bit further than the others yeah
To take initiative,
be proactive in your approach in order to make the things move forward.
Yeah,
that's what drives me.
Even,
in fact,
living abroad is already a risk,
you know,
living abroad.
So it really helps you to be open,
to take risks.
And in fact,
I looked at the psychological aspect of it.
It's not necessarily also taking risks,
it's also expanding your knowledge zone.
We always talk about the comfort zone.
Yeah,
but in fact,
what are you doing when you move from industries to industries?
You expand your knowledge zone.
And then you are not very afraid versus maybe an employee who worked 20 years in the same field with the same clients versus me who worked in tech for some years with different type of clients,
big,
small.
institutions,
public sector,
private sector,
listed company or non-listed company in pharma,
banking,
football club,
you name it.
It gives you this open-mindedness that makes you believe that everything is the most possible.
Yeah,
that's true.
That's true.
And when you mentioned to enlarge your scope and your skills,
today we see,
of course,
we'll come on this topic,
the AI is part of the...
tech companies right now,
thankfully.
Were you surprised in your experience about the way
AI is used where you worked or where you are currently working?
So
I've witnessed the implementation of AI in companies I worked for,
and the first thing I want to say is that it has been done,
let's say,
in a kind way.
Like
AI is not here to cut jobs.
It's here in order to help you to achieve concrete objectives that you have with your clients.
I will give you an example.
I work on a big implementation project,
on a cybersecurity project,
and also the client was moving to cloud.
So in fact,
a very complex environment.
And the client came to me and asked me about a very specific technical aspect on how we could tackle...
certain kind of technical aspects within the implementation of the product.
And what I want also to mention is that you really need to have a good understanding of what your client wants because you cannot ask ChatGPT just solve what the client wants.
That's not going to work.
It's going to ask you back,
what is the issue?
So you really need to come prepared with ChatGPT.
Sorry for mentioning one solution,
but you really need to come prepared with the right inputs.
what your client wants,
what are the specifics,
what's the environment.
So I could give those inputs to chatGVT,
and it answered me an action plan,
very detailed action plan,
actually.
And I showed the action plan to a technical account manager,
to a system engineer,
to solution engineers from different countries that were staying with me in the office.
And they looked at it,
and after a few minutes,
they were like,
that's going to work.
That's going to work.
So
I really see it that way.
You know,
like a...
tool you need to use in order to help you to achieve more and faster.
But you have to work also with the prerequisites.
It's like,
if you do not know how to cook at all,
no machine will come and cook at your place and replace you.
You need the fundamentals.
The robot can help you to cook faster and better,
but it cannot cook to do all the dishes for you.
That's exactly the same with AI in companies for me.
It's if I didn't come with the right inputs and the exact problem we have with the clients,
that wouldn't work.
Okay,
so it can help you to confirm a way to make a process or to prepare a summary to be double-checked by your own experts to confirm it as a way because maybe they have more additional elements to be taken into consideration.
Exactly,
exactly.
So you need...
That's what,
yeah,
I mean,
you can't just,
this fear of,
it's going to replace people,
maybe manual work,
maybe,
I don't know,
but jobs with high level of,
let's say,
interactions,
that's not going to happen.
It's going to help.
And the second aspect,
a different product has been implemented when I was also working in a different company.
It was helping us to gather the notes we were taking from clients'
meetings.
And it was identifying what were the key points and what would maybe miss from the conversation,
what subject we could tackle more,
what risk it was also discovering from the conversation we were having.
But again,
it was helping us to see the broader view of the client relationship.
But the inputs were coming from my interactions with the client.
So you really need to be good at that if you do not understand what your client wants,
what he's doing.
AI will help you as well.
Okay.
Yeah.
So it can also help you to be more efficient in your decisions,
more efficient and faster in the way you are working.
Yeah.
And maybe to point out some key elements which in a discussion you may be missed because we are focused on other challenges.
Yeah.
Completely.
So now you entered in a new era in which you have to learn more.
Yeah,
which is a fascinating,
will impact the coming years.
How do you feel about it?
I'm curious by nature,
but I see several things.
The first thing is that when I entered in tech,
I really realized that the competition is really big.
I mean,
if you go to Bangalore,
if you go to Beijing,
London,
Seattle or
Silicon Valley,
things are moving so fast that learning and adapting...
is not even a prerequisite.
This is what you have to do if you want to survive.
And I'm not talking even as a company.
It's also as an individual.
If you really want to strive in tech,
and every domain,
I think,
competition is so strong.
So my call would be,
don't stay just and follow the process and stay into your comfort zone.
Learn,
look around you.
If you stay too long in a company,
apply to jobs.
If you like Italian or Spanish,
learn a language.
You have so many AI tools now.
You have applications.
Everything is there.
You don't need to spend one euro to learn everything on YouTube videos.
We are doing this podcast sharing our knowledge.
It's for free.
It's all for free for the users.
Use that.
Go outside.
Listen to podcasts.
It's everything here because if you don't do it,
others are doing it.
Countries like China or India,
you know,
they will produce millions of people available on the market in the coming years with very good English.
I was watching a video on YouTube about how Spanish language is expanding in China.
And these guys,
they speak better Spanish than me right now in some schools in China.
And so who's going to take the leadership on
Spanish speaking project in Europe?
So you really need to think that way.
If you do not learn and get this drive to go further and expand your knowledge,
you're going to have a hard time.
That's true.
Thanks a lot,
Pierre,
for this very helpful and great insight,
for your positivity.
You're welcome.
And for sharing so much information with us.
We are very glad to have you in our podcast,
to have you on board,
and we wish you the best for the next steps.
Same for LaFrenchTech.
Thank you for everything you do.
You are great guys.
Thank you,
Pierre.
Thank you.
It is the end of this podcast.
I hope you enjoyed it.
A big thank you to Pierre for being with us today,
and also a big thank you to Hotspot for giving us the space,
this great location in the middle of Bucharest to record this podcast.
Don't forget to subscribe to our social media pages to follow the next news coming up.
The new podcast,
many great things are coming up.
We're looking to see you very soon in our events also.