WEBVTT 1 00:00:10.777 --> 00:00:10.941 Hey, 2 00:00:11.020 --> 00:00:11.340 Koku. 3 00:00:11.621 --> 00:00:12.777 This place is intriguing. 4 00:00:13.363 --> 00:00:13.762 Where are we? 5 00:00:15.496 --> 00:00:17.438 Welcome to Currency Canyon, 6 00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:17.938 Siri. 7 00:00:18.700 --> 00:00:21.040 We've stepped into a dusty old saloon. 8 00:00:21.603 --> 00:00:22.161 Look around. 9 00:00:22.622 --> 00:00:23.626 At several tables, 10 00:00:23.782 --> 00:00:26.829 global currencies are locked in a high-stakes poker game, 11 00:00:27.306 --> 00:00:32.407 each striving for dominance and urgency power in a tense and unpredictable showdown. 12 00:00:32.876 --> 00:00:33.532 Wait a second. 13 00:00:34.188 --> 00:00:37.063 Are we in some kind of Western movie set in 2009? 14 00:00:37.251 --> 00:00:37.813 Not quite. 15 00:00:38.204 --> 00:00:41.407 This virtual reality is a vivid creation of my imagination. 16 00:00:42.068 --> 00:00:44.991 This saloon buzzes with the tension of past, 17 00:00:45.210 --> 00:00:47.093 present and future economic battles. 18 00:00:47.452 --> 00:00:49.976 A struggle for survival against inflation. 19 00:00:50.452 --> 00:00:51.835 This is all so intriguing. 20 00:00:52.476 --> 00:00:52.781 Tell me, 21 00:00:53.077 --> 00:00:54.640 what's happening at that table over there? 22 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:56.023 Over there, 23 00:00:56.062 --> 00:00:56.546 my friend, 24 00:00:56.960 --> 00:00:59.812 the currencies are laser-focused on their game. 25 00:01:00.452 --> 00:01:01.827 Each move calculated. 26 00:01:02.484 --> 00:01:08.734 See how the euro remains calm and composed while the pound leans forward with a confident wager. 27 00:01:09.632 --> 00:01:12.956 The Swiss franc is carefully considering its next move, 28 00:01:13.515 --> 00:01:14.616 as the Japanese yen, 29 00:01:15.077 --> 00:01:16.179 battling deflation, 30 00:01:16.737 --> 00:01:18.304 is boldly going all-in. 31 00:01:19.163 --> 00:01:23.288 The Deutschmark and the French franc stand silently nearby, 32 00:01:23.827 --> 00:01:27.116 solemn reminders of past triumphs and defeats. 33 00:01:31.184 --> 00:01:31.424 Wait, 34 00:01:31.785 --> 00:01:32.686 who's that at the door? 35 00:01:33.606 --> 00:01:36.629 The mysterious figure with a low hat and steely eyes. 36 00:01:37.391 --> 00:01:37.590 Ah, 37 00:01:38.492 --> 00:01:39.910 that's Billy Crypto. 38 00:01:40.613 --> 00:01:43.613 His first ever appearance in Currency Canyon. 39 00:01:43.934 --> 00:01:45.317 Who the hell is Billy Crypto? 40 00:01:45.715 --> 00:01:46.020 Well, 41 00:01:46.121 --> 00:01:49.082 Billy Crypto is considered a rogue outlaw, 42 00:01:49.629 --> 00:01:52.707 set to disrupt the banking stagecoach by some, 43 00:01:53.285 --> 00:01:59.113 and hail as a hero ready to rescue Currency Canyon from inflation and inefficiency by others. 44 00:02:00.108 --> 00:02:04.012 Perhaps he represents the solution to preserving economic energy, 45 00:02:04.551 --> 00:02:07.594 something fiat currencies have long struggled to achieve. 46 00:02:10.161 --> 00:02:10.536 I see. 47 00:02:11.122 --> 00:02:13.059 Billy Crypto is Neo in the Matrix movie, 48 00:02:13.325 --> 00:02:15.044 and I guess that the town's law enforcer, 49 00:02:15.325 --> 00:02:16.184 dare I say Mr. 50 00:02:16.247 --> 00:02:16.606 Anderson. 51 00:02:17.841 --> 00:02:18.325 Nice one, 52 00:02:18.387 --> 00:02:18.622 Siri. 53 00:02:19.106 --> 00:02:20.231 But this is the wild, 54 00:02:20.262 --> 00:02:20.872 wild west. 55 00:02:21.512 --> 00:02:23.966 They call him Sheriff Dollar Greenback, 56 00:02:24.356 --> 00:02:26.012 better known as the Central Bank, 57 00:02:26.419 --> 00:02:27.575 a veteran old-timer. 58 00:02:28.872 --> 00:02:29.393 Stranger, 59 00:02:29.673 --> 00:02:30.875 you knew Arambi's parts? 60 00:02:31.955 --> 00:02:35.537 We don't take kindly to currencies running loose without central control. 61 00:02:36.380 --> 00:02:38.021 You got a license to play around here, 62 00:02:38.084 --> 00:02:38.318 son? 63 00:02:41.185 --> 00:02:41.466 And so, 64 00:02:41.865 --> 00:02:42.669 dear listeners, 65 00:02:42.966 --> 00:02:44.427 began the legendary showdown. 66 00:02:44.904 --> 00:02:47.638 The clash between tradition and innovation. 67 00:02:48.154 --> 00:02:49.091 The question remains, 68 00:02:49.466 --> 00:02:51.201 will they always hold their ground, 69 00:02:51.607 --> 00:02:54.716 or will the new frontier of crypto redefine the rules? 70 00:02:55.482 --> 00:02:56.544 Let the showdown begin. 71 00:03:04.997 --> 00:03:06.740 Welcome to 2050 Investors, 72 00:03:06.939 --> 00:03:12.165 the podcast that deciphers economic and market megatrends to meet tomorrow's challenges. 73 00:03:12.626 --> 00:03:13.564 I'm Koku Agbobla, 74 00:03:13.931 --> 00:03:14.970 I head up economics, 75 00:03:15.212 --> 00:03:17.931 process set and quant research at Societe Generale. 76 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:20.353 In this episode, 77 00:03:20.431 --> 00:03:23.150 we delve into the world of cryptocurrencies, 78 00:03:23.415 --> 00:03:23.931 blockchain, 79 00:03:24.197 --> 00:03:29.181 DeFi and stablecoins in the wake of recent endorsements by the US government. 80 00:03:30.048 --> 00:03:33.331 What foundational principles underpin cryptocurrencies? 81 00:03:33.772 --> 00:03:37.534 And what factors are fueling their rapid rise in popularity? 82 00:03:38.339 --> 00:03:42.878 We will dive into the intriguing world of decentralized finance or DeFi, 83 00:03:43.362 --> 00:03:48.167 a system where financial products operate on decentralized public blockchains, 84 00:03:48.573 --> 00:03:52.557 bypassing traditional intermediaries like banks and brokerages. 85 00:03:53.667 --> 00:03:58.698 Could cryptocurrencies truly become the ultimate form of economic energy storage? 86 00:03:59.808 --> 00:04:03.212 If staples provide everything a checking or savings account can provide, 87 00:04:03.813 --> 00:04:05.673 banks should help their customers use them. 88 00:04:06.356 --> 00:04:09.614 If accessing decentralized finance is good for users, 89 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:12.497 banks should help their customers navigate DeFi. 90 00:04:13.278 --> 00:04:14.364 Later in this episode, 91 00:04:14.419 --> 00:04:15.864 we interview Joseph Flubin, 92 00:04:16.349 --> 00:04:17.520 co-founder of Ethereum, 93 00:04:18.020 --> 00:04:19.067 CEO of ConsenSys, 94 00:04:19.512 --> 00:04:22.595 We chat about the impact of stablecoins in the financial sector, 95 00:04:22.915 --> 00:04:25.218 as well as their relationship with traditional banks. 96 00:04:25.878 --> 00:04:29.725 We will also address the fundamental issue of trust in digital money, 97 00:04:30.280 --> 00:04:30.944 regulation, 98 00:04:31.225 --> 00:04:32.022 future payment, 99 00:04:32.382 --> 00:04:35.749 and tracking the balance between consumer protection and innovation. 100 00:04:38.858 --> 00:04:40.296 Let's start our investigation. 101 00:04:49.840 --> 00:04:49.961 So, 102 00:04:50.381 --> 00:04:53.563 I hear a lot of people using the term economic energy storage. 103 00:04:53.805 --> 00:04:54.504 Can you explain? 104 00:04:55.305 --> 00:04:55.688 Of course, 105 00:04:55.727 --> 00:04:55.965 Siri. 106 00:04:56.285 --> 00:04:58.488 In this fascinating and insightful interview, 107 00:04:58.832 --> 00:05:00.090 we hear from Michael Saylor, 108 00:05:00.473 --> 00:05:03.574 the billionaire executive chairman and co-founder of Strategy. 109 00:05:04.349 --> 00:05:05.730 a Bitcoin development company. 110 00:05:06.251 --> 00:05:09.454 Saylor is one of the most vocal advocates of Bitcoin, 111 00:05:09.954 --> 00:05:15.037 often framing it as a technological breakthrough akin to the internet or electricity. 112 00:05:15.958 --> 00:05:20.662 A type 1 diabetic cannot form fat because they do not have insulin. 113 00:05:20.708 --> 00:05:23.990 Then another phrase for organic energy is fat. 114 00:05:24.865 --> 00:05:26.271 Fat is an organic battery. 115 00:05:27.365 --> 00:05:29.474 So when someone's a type 1 diabetic, 116 00:05:29.552 --> 00:05:32.302 they can eat all day long and they're going to starve to death. 117 00:05:33.569 --> 00:05:35.231 If I take your insulin away from you, 118 00:05:35.232 --> 00:05:36.211 it's a death sentence. 119 00:05:36.871 --> 00:05:43.742 Removing someone's property rights when I strip you of property rights is a death sentence economically. 120 00:05:43.899 --> 00:05:47.063 I'm literally saying you cannot store economic energy. 121 00:05:47.907 --> 00:05:54.313 Being able to store monetary energy over long periods of time is no different than being able to store fat. 122 00:05:55.047 --> 00:05:58.610 We have harnessed monetary energy on a network. 123 00:06:00.094 --> 00:06:01.203 So for Michael Saylor. 124 00:06:01.453 --> 00:06:03.613 Bitcoin is this encrypted energy crucible. 125 00:06:04.033 --> 00:06:10.092 The definition of a crucible is a heat-resistant container used in metallurgy for melting metals at very high temperature. 126 00:06:11.053 --> 00:06:11.834 Nice metaphor. 127 00:06:12.217 --> 00:06:12.678 All in all, 128 00:06:12.936 --> 00:06:18.029 this all boils down to finding the ultimate store of value or economic energy. 129 00:06:18.670 --> 00:06:19.717 And for Michael Saylor, 130 00:06:20.076 --> 00:06:24.123 Bitcoin is the digital solution to this ancient human challenge. 131 00:06:24.779 --> 00:06:28.701 So what about the showdown between Billy Crypto and the sheriff dollar Greenback? 132 00:06:29.139 --> 00:06:29.357 Okay. 133 00:06:29.741 --> 00:06:31.483 Before this epic standoff escalates, 134 00:06:31.724 --> 00:06:33.364 let's step back and set the scene. 135 00:06:33.665 --> 00:06:34.145 Blockchain, 136 00:06:34.286 --> 00:06:35.067 crypto mining, 137 00:06:35.165 --> 00:06:35.606 DeFi, 138 00:06:35.708 --> 00:06:36.247 stablecoins, 139 00:06:36.708 --> 00:06:38.169 what do these words even mean? 140 00:06:38.489 --> 00:06:38.770 Siri, 141 00:06:39.013 --> 00:06:43.356 let's go on a little adventure that I will call the fellowship of the blockchain. 142 00:06:48.974 --> 00:06:49.786 In Gazadum, 143 00:06:50.239 --> 00:06:51.286 the mines of Moria, 144 00:06:51.880 --> 00:06:54.849 the underground kingdom beneath the misty mountains, 145 00:06:55.364 --> 00:06:57.755 realm of the dwarves of Durin's fall. 146 00:07:01.450 --> 00:07:01.710 Sorry. 147 00:07:02.191 --> 00:07:05.314 In the data centers of Rockdale and Corsicana in Texas, 148 00:07:05.693 --> 00:07:07.177 two popular crypto mining hubs, 149 00:07:07.736 --> 00:07:08.697 miners toll away, 150 00:07:09.197 --> 00:07:11.040 solving complex mathematical puzzles. 151 00:07:11.540 --> 00:07:12.462 To be more precise, 152 00:07:12.603 --> 00:07:14.282 they don't really solve puzzles, 153 00:07:14.486 --> 00:07:15.384 but guess numbers. 154 00:07:15.962 --> 00:07:19.587 It's a giant race to generate random numbers until they find a match. 155 00:07:20.243 --> 00:07:20.384 OK, 156 00:07:20.915 --> 00:07:22.931 this is essentially the process of mining. 157 00:07:23.806 --> 00:07:24.759 But unlike gold, 158 00:07:24.947 --> 00:07:26.150 you don't dig with a shovel. 159 00:07:26.915 --> 00:07:29.072 You solve puzzles with raw computing power. 160 00:07:29.431 --> 00:07:30.025 That's right. 161 00:07:31.009 --> 00:07:31.129 So, 162 00:07:31.430 --> 00:07:36.714 blockchain is the digital ledger that underpins cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum. 163 00:07:37.073 --> 00:07:38.034 It's a chain of blocks, 164 00:07:38.315 --> 00:07:39.339 imagine Legos, 165 00:07:39.901 --> 00:07:41.456 each containing transactions, 166 00:07:41.659 --> 00:07:45.042 validated by the network and supposedly unhackable. 167 00:07:45.620 --> 00:07:46.745 Or as Don Tapscott, 168 00:07:47.018 --> 00:07:52.128 author of Blockchain Revolution and one of the world's top digital and management thinkers puts it, 169 00:07:52.612 --> 00:07:54.456 Blockchain is the trust protocol. 170 00:07:54.753 --> 00:07:57.440 It enables us to trust strangers at scale, 171 00:07:57.815 --> 00:07:59.096 without intermediaries. 172 00:08:00.005 --> 00:08:03.067 The real pony here is the underlying technology. 173 00:08:03.108 --> 00:08:04.669 It's called blockchain. 174 00:08:06.231 --> 00:08:09.376 So for the first time now in human history, 175 00:08:09.657 --> 00:08:14.055 people everywhere can trust each other and transact peer to peer. 176 00:08:15.602 --> 00:08:19.141 And trust is established not by some big institution, 177 00:08:19.844 --> 00:08:21.173 but by collaboration, 178 00:08:21.266 --> 00:08:24.594 by cryptography and by some clever code. 179 00:08:25.032 --> 00:08:27.751 And because trust is native to the technology, 180 00:08:28.629 --> 00:08:30.872 I call this the trust protocol. 181 00:08:32.113 --> 00:08:32.833 Which is great, 182 00:08:33.134 --> 00:08:34.595 unless you like intermediaries. 183 00:08:35.255 --> 00:08:35.536 Like, 184 00:08:35.775 --> 00:08:36.017 say, 185 00:08:36.458 --> 00:08:38.220 central banks as a source of trust. 186 00:08:39.103 --> 00:08:39.681 Good point, 187 00:08:39.782 --> 00:08:40.001 Siri. 188 00:08:40.462 --> 00:08:43.243 Crypto has spent a few years in the regulatory wild, 189 00:08:43.267 --> 00:08:43.822 wild west, 190 00:08:44.142 --> 00:08:46.634 with volatile prices and major scandals. 191 00:08:47.040 --> 00:08:47.572 But lately, 192 00:08:47.915 --> 00:08:50.009 Billy Crypto's been dusting off his boots. 193 00:08:50.447 --> 00:08:50.728 Why? 194 00:08:51.150 --> 00:08:51.368 Well, 195 00:08:51.556 --> 00:08:54.197 the US has signaled a major policy shift, 196 00:08:54.509 --> 00:08:57.212 as US President Donald Trump declared. 197 00:08:57.857 --> 00:09:03.784 Together we will make America the undisputed Bitcoin superpower and the crypto capital of the world. 198 00:09:04.284 --> 00:09:04.784 Thank you. 199 00:09:05.323 --> 00:09:05.866 Good luck. 200 00:09:06.241 --> 00:09:07.366 God bless America. 201 00:09:08.726 --> 00:09:12.148 He also hinted at building crypto reserves for the U.S. 202 00:09:12.515 --> 00:09:14.648 as a hedge against foreign digital currencies. 203 00:09:16.070 --> 00:09:16.554 Indeed, 204 00:09:16.929 --> 00:09:19.382 with the SEC's approval of spot Bitcoin ETFs, 205 00:09:19.460 --> 00:09:20.085 for example, 206 00:09:20.413 --> 00:09:21.585 the floodgates reopened. 207 00:09:21.866 --> 00:09:23.085 Venture capital poured in. 208 00:09:23.425 --> 00:09:26.368 Large banks are now investing in blockchain infrastructure, 209 00:09:26.468 --> 00:09:27.229 stablecoins, 210 00:09:27.329 --> 00:09:28.790 and even tokenized treasuries. 211 00:09:30.692 --> 00:09:30.813 So, 212 00:09:31.134 --> 00:09:32.450 we've just talked about Bitcoins. 213 00:09:32.778 --> 00:09:33.114 I think, 214 00:09:33.192 --> 00:09:33.458 Siri, 215 00:09:33.856 --> 00:09:38.497 that this is a good time to look at cryptocurrencies and stablecoins and exchanges. 216 00:09:39.544 --> 00:09:42.622 So what are we talking about when we say cryptocurrencies? 217 00:09:43.231 --> 00:09:43.731 First of all, 218 00:09:44.122 --> 00:09:45.622 there are digital tokens. 219 00:09:45.966 --> 00:09:46.450 Bitcoin, 220 00:09:46.794 --> 00:09:47.294 Ethereum, 221 00:09:47.544 --> 00:09:47.950 Solana, 222 00:09:48.669 --> 00:09:50.278 they all fall into this category. 223 00:09:50.841 --> 00:09:54.824 They are decentralized and their value is determined by the marketplace. 224 00:09:55.484 --> 00:09:56.265 Here's a fun fact. 225 00:09:56.886 --> 00:10:00.890 Bitcoin's maximum supply is capped at 21 million coins, 226 00:10:01.273 --> 00:10:05.914 a fundamental characteristic since its creation by Satoshi Nakamoto. 227 00:10:06.336 --> 00:10:06.859 Thus far, 228 00:10:07.156 --> 00:10:09.812 over 19 million bitcoins have been mined, 229 00:10:10.093 --> 00:10:12.687 leaving about 1.5 million remaining. 230 00:10:13.015 --> 00:10:15.890 So the metaphor with gold miners is not that far-fetched. 231 00:10:16.474 --> 00:10:16.955 Very true, 232 00:10:17.275 --> 00:10:18.295 gold is very rare. 233 00:10:18.776 --> 00:10:19.256 Picture this, 234 00:10:19.516 --> 00:10:25.286 the concentration of gold in medium-grade ore is between 1 and 8 grams per ton of rock. 235 00:10:26.223 --> 00:10:26.340 Ok, 236 00:10:26.645 --> 00:10:28.489 now let's move on to stablecoins. 237 00:10:29.028 --> 00:10:31.770 They are cryptos pegged to traditional assets, 238 00:10:32.028 --> 00:10:33.168 usually the US dollar. 239 00:10:33.387 --> 00:10:39.637 A stablecoin is issued by regulated financial institutions and backed by fully reserved assets. 240 00:10:39.996 --> 00:10:45.668 The total stablecoin market is roughly $270 billion and is dominated 241 00:10:45.754 --> 00:10:47.115 by Tether and Circle, 242 00:10:47.596 --> 00:10:48.997 with roughly 85% 243 00:10:49.298 --> 00:10:49.839 market share. 244 00:10:50.378 --> 00:10:54.745 The market is expected to grow to $3.7 trillion by 2030, 245 00:10:55.042 --> 00:10:56.448 according to several studies. 246 00:10:57.308 --> 00:10:58.706 According to Tether's CEO, 247 00:10:59.144 --> 00:10:59.870 Paolo Arduino, 248 00:10:59.871 --> 00:11:01.448 in 2024, 249 00:11:01.870 --> 00:11:04.573 Tether was the fifth largest buyer of US treasuries. 250 00:11:05.386 --> 00:11:07.401 It currently holds $120 billion, 251 00:11:07.855 --> 00:11:08.136 ranking 252 00:11:08.511 --> 00:11:10.292 18th globally if it were a sovereign entity. 253 00:11:11.605 --> 00:11:12.480 Unbelievable. 254 00:11:12.808 --> 00:11:13.980 Last but not least, 255 00:11:14.542 --> 00:11:15.183 exchanges. 256 00:11:15.646 --> 00:11:18.109 They are digital marketplaces like Binance, 257 00:11:18.328 --> 00:11:18.808 Bitpanda, 258 00:11:19.029 --> 00:11:19.371 Bullish, 259 00:11:19.609 --> 00:11:20.152 where you buy, 260 00:11:20.511 --> 00:11:20.769 sell, 261 00:11:21.031 --> 00:11:22.332 or swap digital assets. 262 00:11:22.953 --> 00:11:28.378 Think of them as the saloon bars where everyone trades stories and sometimes punches. 263 00:11:28.839 --> 00:11:30.300 But who's allowed to open a bar? 264 00:11:30.644 --> 00:11:31.324 Good question, 265 00:11:31.543 --> 00:11:32.019 as always, 266 00:11:32.082 --> 00:11:32.316 Siri. 267 00:11:33.003 --> 00:11:34.972 Europe took the lead with MICA, 268 00:11:35.238 --> 00:11:37.472 the Markets and Crypto Assets Regulation, 269 00:11:37.707 --> 00:11:43.316 a first-of-its-kind framework setting clear rules on how digital assets are issued, 270 00:11:43.457 --> 00:11:43.878 traded, 271 00:11:44.050 --> 00:11:44.878 and safeguarded. 272 00:11:45.102 --> 00:11:48.485 The US used to be the wild west with regulators playing whack-a-mole. 273 00:11:48.706 --> 00:11:49.546 Gary Gensler, 274 00:11:49.905 --> 00:11:50.987 former head of the SEC, 275 00:11:51.429 --> 00:11:52.167 famously said, 276 00:11:52.710 --> 00:11:55.151 Most of these tokens are investment contracts. 277 00:11:55.433 --> 00:11:59.815 There is nothing about crypto that is incompatible with securities laws. 278 00:12:00.237 --> 00:12:02.683 Most of these tokens are investment contracts. 279 00:12:02.995 --> 00:12:03.667 Translation, 280 00:12:03.979 --> 00:12:05.042 nice coin you've got there. 281 00:12:05.401 --> 00:12:06.964 Shame if it were unregistered. 282 00:12:07.339 --> 00:12:07.683 Clearly, 283 00:12:08.026 --> 00:12:09.151 things have changed since. 284 00:12:09.729 --> 00:12:10.214 Recently, 285 00:12:10.370 --> 00:12:13.745 the US Congress passed a guiding and establishing national 286 00:12:13.902 --> 00:12:32.373 innovation for u.s stable coins act or genius act to regulate stable coins in the u.s and it will take effect in 2027 but let's return to our saloon currency canyon why do these old currencies care so much about billy crypto because 287 00:12:32.451 --> 00:12:36.842 every currency is at heart a question of trust spot on siri 288 00:12:37.467 --> 00:12:40.764 Pre-1971, the world's money was pegged to gold, 289 00:12:41.201 --> 00:12:42.686 aka the gold standard. 290 00:12:43.326 --> 00:12:44.767 If you didn't trust your bank, 291 00:12:45.008 --> 00:12:47.391 at least you could demand gold in exchange. 292 00:12:47.691 --> 00:12:47.891 Then, 293 00:12:47.973 --> 00:12:49.133 in 1971, 294 00:12:49.293 --> 00:12:51.871 President Nixon closes the gold window. 295 00:12:52.433 --> 00:12:52.879 Suddenly, 296 00:12:53.199 --> 00:12:55.777 dollars became backed by nothing. 297 00:12:56.301 --> 00:12:56.519 Well, 298 00:12:57.043 --> 00:12:59.980 nothing but the promise of the US government, 299 00:13:00.277 --> 00:13:03.308 the famous full faith and credit of the USA. 300 00:13:03.652 --> 00:13:06.121 And the promise that everyone else will keep accepting them. 301 00:13:06.387 --> 00:13:07.933 That's the core of fiat money, 302 00:13:08.387 --> 00:13:08.668 faith. 303 00:13:09.324 --> 00:13:11.012 Central banks act as the sheriff, 304 00:13:11.355 --> 00:13:12.308 ensuring order. 305 00:13:12.698 --> 00:13:15.882 setting interest rates and stepping in during a crisis. 306 00:13:16.441 --> 00:13:17.785 But what if people lose faith? 307 00:13:18.304 --> 00:13:20.445 What if the sheriff loses his badge or, 308 00:13:20.745 --> 00:13:21.105 worse, 309 00:13:21.464 --> 00:13:23.105 sells it as a non-fungible token, 310 00:13:23.449 --> 00:13:23.730 NFT? 311 00:13:24.652 --> 00:13:25.870 This is exactly the dilemma. 312 00:13:26.253 --> 00:13:27.613 Old school versus new school. 313 00:13:28.331 --> 00:13:33.136 Young Billy Crypto has the potential to offer a few perks that the old guard cannot. 314 00:13:33.605 --> 00:13:36.589 Like being decentralized with no central authority. 315 00:13:37.261 --> 00:13:37.730 After all, 316 00:13:37.808 --> 00:13:38.949 the code is law. 317 00:13:39.730 --> 00:13:41.964 Then there is the benefit of transparency. 318 00:13:42.330 --> 00:13:45.290 as every transaction is recorded for all to see. 319 00:13:45.831 --> 00:13:48.753 And if social media and pop culture have taught us anything, 320 00:13:49.171 --> 00:13:52.476 it's that anyone with access online can participate. 321 00:13:52.749 --> 00:13:54.491 No bank account necessary. 322 00:13:54.991 --> 00:13:57.437 This has certainly amplified its global reach. 323 00:13:58.171 --> 00:13:58.554 Finally, 324 00:13:58.898 --> 00:14:01.319 there is the advantage of programmability. 325 00:14:01.913 --> 00:14:06.210 Smart contracts let you build financial tools that can run themselves. 326 00:14:06.601 --> 00:14:08.991 It's the ultimate take the red pill moment. 327 00:14:11.761 --> 00:14:13.923 You can choose to stay in the fiat system, 328 00:14:14.322 --> 00:14:16.384 believe what you want to believe, 329 00:14:16.665 --> 00:14:19.990 or you see how deep the blockchain rabbit hole goes. 330 00:14:21.013 --> 00:14:22.568 We've listed some of the advantages. 331 00:14:22.974 --> 00:14:23.091 So, 332 00:14:23.615 --> 00:14:24.396 what are the risks, 333 00:14:24.552 --> 00:14:25.130 you may ask? 334 00:14:25.700 --> 00:14:27.091 Let's begin with volatility. 335 00:14:27.529 --> 00:14:28.904 Prices can swing widely. 336 00:14:29.263 --> 00:14:30.560 If you've been following the news, 337 00:14:31.107 --> 00:14:33.716 then you would have witnessed Bitcoin up 10% 338 00:14:33.857 --> 00:14:35.685 one day and then down 20% 339 00:14:36.029 --> 00:14:36.450 the next. 340 00:14:37.022 --> 00:14:39.163 Then there is the issue around regulation. 341 00:14:39.383 --> 00:14:41.481 Governments can and do ban, 342 00:14:41.743 --> 00:14:43.782 restrict or tax crypto at will. 343 00:14:44.083 --> 00:14:48.005 This problem is further exacerbated by security concerns, 344 00:14:48.426 --> 00:14:48.747 hacks, 345 00:14:49.145 --> 00:14:49.528 fraud, 346 00:14:49.926 --> 00:14:50.887 lost private keys, 347 00:14:51.067 --> 00:14:51.887 just to name a few. 348 00:14:52.348 --> 00:14:54.161 There are no bailouts in the blockchain. 349 00:14:54.505 --> 00:14:56.942 And we must talk about the environmental costs. 350 00:14:57.473 --> 00:14:59.442 Bitcoin mining is energy intensive. 351 00:14:59.926 --> 00:15:02.223 Don't get me started on energy and the environment. 352 00:15:02.723 --> 00:15:05.270 According to the Cambridge Centre for Alternative Finance, 353 00:15:05.470 --> 00:15:09.816 bitcoin's annual energy use rivals that of small countries however 354 00:15:10.353 --> 00:15:11.514 Another Cambridge study, 355 00:15:11.714 --> 00:15:13.715 released in April 2025, 356 00:15:13.716 --> 00:15:15.719 found that about 52.4% 357 00:15:16.118 --> 00:15:19.524 of Bitcoin mining energy comes from sustainable sources. 358 00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:19.985 So, 359 00:15:20.407 --> 00:15:26.188 you humans invented a currency to break free from the system and then made it so energy intensive it might cook the planet. 360 00:15:26.610 --> 00:15:27.110 Genius! 361 00:15:27.422 --> 00:15:28.063 That's a good point, 362 00:15:28.094 --> 00:15:28.297 Siri. 363 00:15:32.657 --> 00:15:34.672 I must admit that there's a lot more to do. 364 00:15:35.009 --> 00:15:40.953 But there has been progress with the release of more energy-efficient devices or innovative cooling systems. 365 00:15:41.477 --> 00:15:44.321 This could be an interesting topic for another episode. 366 00:15:44.641 --> 00:15:46.422 Trying to shy away from the subject, 367 00:15:46.641 --> 00:15:47.000 I see. 368 00:15:47.703 --> 00:15:48.180 Not at all, 369 00:15:48.281 --> 00:15:48.563 Siri. 370 00:15:49.102 --> 00:15:52.500 But I want us to spend some more time talking about stablecoins, 371 00:15:52.922 --> 00:15:55.594 which are designed to keep one foot in each world, 372 00:15:55.906 --> 00:15:57.578 pegged in real money in one, 373 00:15:57.844 --> 00:16:00.328 while living on the blockchain in the other. 374 00:16:00.594 --> 00:16:02.781 The idea behind USD co-invertible, 375 00:16:03.063 --> 00:16:03.344 Tether. 376 00:16:03.701 --> 00:16:04.902 PayPal's PYUSD, 377 00:16:05.463 --> 00:16:08.625 and now Euro-backed coins like EuroCoInvertible is stability, 378 00:16:09.008 --> 00:16:09.668 transparency, 379 00:16:10.027 --> 00:16:11.609 and faster cross-border payments. 380 00:16:11.988 --> 00:16:16.191 Some central banks are even developing their own central bank digital currencies, 381 00:16:16.410 --> 00:16:17.137 CBDCs. 382 00:16:17.457 --> 00:16:19.652 Sheriff Dollar Greenback wants a badge. 383 00:16:19.996 --> 00:16:21.215 That's blockchain-powered, 384 00:16:21.355 --> 00:16:23.980 but with all the old world authority. 385 00:16:24.340 --> 00:16:24.543 Now, 386 00:16:24.762 --> 00:16:26.558 here's the million Bitcoin question. 387 00:16:26.980 --> 00:16:30.605 Can Billy Crypto and the old currencies share the town, 388 00:16:30.887 --> 00:16:32.527 or is a standoff already? 389 00:16:32.617 --> 00:16:33.358 Even a fight, 390 00:16:33.758 --> 00:16:34.398 unavoidable. 391 00:16:34.939 --> 00:16:37.603 Banks are experimenting with tokenized deposits, 392 00:16:37.783 --> 00:16:39.982 turning your bank balance into digital tokens, 393 00:16:40.084 --> 00:16:41.850 cheaper and easier to program. 394 00:16:42.350 --> 00:16:42.967 As S.R. 395 00:16:43.029 --> 00:16:43.490 Prasad, 396 00:16:43.646 --> 00:16:45.193 author of The Future of Money, 397 00:16:45.310 --> 00:16:45.607 says, 398 00:16:46.271 --> 00:16:50.115 Digital currencies may coexist with traditional money for years to come, 399 00:16:50.631 --> 00:16:54.803 but they are accelerating a rethink of what money really is. 400 00:16:55.303 --> 00:16:57.756 So Billy Crypto is no longer just an outlaw. 401 00:16:58.318 --> 00:16:59.318 He's part of the system, 402 00:16:59.584 --> 00:17:01.100 whether the sheriff likes it or not. 403 00:17:07.605 --> 00:17:07.845 Now, 404 00:17:08.005 --> 00:17:09.087 for further insights, 405 00:17:09.306 --> 00:17:10.968 let's discuss with Joseph Lubin, 406 00:17:11.468 --> 00:17:12.728 co-founder of Ethereum, 407 00:17:13.170 --> 00:17:14.232 CEO of ConsenSys, 408 00:17:14.591 --> 00:17:17.736 to understand the impact of stablecoins on the financial sector. 409 00:17:21.963 --> 00:17:22.080 Hey, 410 00:17:22.158 --> 00:17:22.361 Joe, 411 00:17:22.502 --> 00:17:24.041 thank you so much for joining the show. 412 00:17:24.338 --> 00:17:24.900 Thanks for having me. 413 00:17:24.901 --> 00:17:25.447 All right, 414 00:17:25.556 --> 00:17:28.228 let's kick off this interview with the following question. 415 00:17:28.806 --> 00:17:34.650 Do you think and or see stablecoins as competitors to traditional banking or rather as... 416 00:17:34.821 --> 00:17:37.284 partners that can make banking more efficient. 417 00:17:37.804 --> 00:17:44.214 I believe technologies like Ethereum and decentralized finance will lead to a contraction of the number of banks in the world. 418 00:17:44.870 --> 00:17:47.933 But people and companies will still need banking services. 419 00:17:47.995 --> 00:17:50.597 So what do banks need to do to survive and thrive? 420 00:17:50.980 --> 00:17:53.152 They need to serve their customers well. 421 00:17:53.855 --> 00:17:57.277 If staples provide everything a checking or savings account can provide, 422 00:17:57.870 --> 00:17:59.745 banks should help their customers use them. 423 00:18:00.433 --> 00:18:03.683 If accessing decentralized finance is good for users. 424 00:18:03.961 --> 00:18:06.543 Banks should help their customers navigate DeFi. 425 00:18:07.164 --> 00:18:10.709 Bank customers want to custody their own assets in their own wallets. 426 00:18:11.647 --> 00:18:12.951 Banks should help them do that. 427 00:18:13.490 --> 00:18:17.537 And banks should provide value-added services around that. 428 00:18:17.951 --> 00:18:23.178 Banks should recognize that their customers will soon be able to have self-custody, 429 00:18:23.444 --> 00:18:25.240 full-service banks in their pocket. 430 00:18:25.819 --> 00:18:26.178 Our own 431 00:18:26.803 --> 00:18:31.069 MetaMask wallet on Ethereum and other networks is moving rapidly in that direction. 432 00:18:31.162 --> 00:18:32.412 And at the end of the day, 433 00:18:32.490 --> 00:18:33.069 banks want to 434 00:18:33.141 --> 00:18:38.104 preserve their assets and earn yield on top of those assets and so do their customers. 435 00:18:38.604 --> 00:18:49.893 Banks should help their customers adopt the technology because there will be so many ways for banks to participate in using and offering value-added components on these open platforms. 436 00:18:49.940 --> 00:18:56.643 And really the main reason banks should do this is because if they make a transition well, 437 00:18:56.737 --> 00:19:00.628 they can retain most of their customers and earn new ones. 438 00:19:01.185 --> 00:19:05.110 while massively reducing the cost of running their infrastructure. 439 00:19:05.872 --> 00:19:06.212 All of 440 00:19:06.950 --> 00:19:12.333 SockChain or any other major bank's financial offerings could run as applications on Ethereum, 441 00:19:12.755 --> 00:19:16.356 and the savings would likely be greater than 90%, 442 00:19:16.357 --> 00:19:18.528 probably much higher than that. 443 00:19:19.044 --> 00:19:20.903 So this leads me to a second question, 444 00:19:21.528 --> 00:19:21.872 trust. 445 00:19:22.622 --> 00:19:24.934 In a world where money is just a code, 446 00:19:25.169 --> 00:19:29.372 how do you build the same level of trust people have in their bank deposits? 447 00:19:31.278 --> 00:19:33.221 So it's a matter of education. 448 00:19:33.641 --> 00:19:36.484 It's a matter of building better hardened systems. 449 00:19:36.723 --> 00:19:51.644 It's a matter of treating digital assets similarly to how nation state fiat is treated in terms of guarantees that can be provided for certain kinds of assets. 450 00:19:52.238 --> 00:19:53.801 Or maybe that's not even necessary. 451 00:19:53.879 --> 00:19:59.160 Maybe you don't need to guarantee $250,000. 452 00:19:59.257 --> 00:20:01.019 are safe in your U.S. 453 00:20:01.099 --> 00:20:06.044 bank account because the FDIC will ensure that it is covered. 454 00:20:06.345 --> 00:20:11.810 Maybe there are better systems that we could build programmatically on decentralized protocol technology. 455 00:20:12.286 --> 00:20:18.958 I do think that banks that take on the responsibility to educate and provide value-added services, 456 00:20:19.036 --> 00:20:22.021 and these can be insurance-like services, 457 00:20:22.302 --> 00:20:24.583 these can be security-like services, 458 00:20:24.614 --> 00:20:27.739 These can be access to yielding services. 459 00:20:28.005 --> 00:20:28.286 I think. 460 00:20:28.853 --> 00:20:31.695 Those are the ones that will retain and win customers. 461 00:20:32.056 --> 00:20:41.765 And so we have a great advantage in the crypto currency and digital asset space because we're already building on very secure technology, 462 00:20:42.328 --> 00:20:43.789 cryptographic systems, 463 00:20:44.507 --> 00:20:45.476 computer systems, 464 00:20:45.632 --> 00:20:45.804 etc. 465 00:20:46.117 --> 00:20:54.460 And it's usually the bridges between the traditional finance system and the next generation financial system that are weak and vulnerable. 466 00:20:54.914 --> 00:20:58.117 So we need to shore up. 467 00:20:58.469 --> 00:21:04.393 the bridges between the two systems and maybe just start using the new financial system more natively. 468 00:21:04.394 --> 00:21:05.878 Like in the US, 469 00:21:06.940 --> 00:21:11.081 SEC Chair Paul Atkins and Hester Peirce introduced Project Crypto, 470 00:21:11.339 --> 00:21:15.831 which will lead to the ability to issue financial instruments natively on-chain. 471 00:21:15.893 --> 00:21:17.987 This is already starting to happen a little bit. 472 00:21:19.253 --> 00:21:25.675 And just removing the bridge between the old system and the new system and being able to natively issue on the new, 473 00:21:25.753 --> 00:21:26.331 more secure. 474 00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:28.441 an incredibly secure system, 475 00:21:28.963 --> 00:21:33.365 it's probably a way to reduce potential vulnerability and increase trust in the system. 476 00:21:34.127 --> 00:21:34.268 Well, 477 00:21:34.287 --> 00:21:35.186 these are very good points. 478 00:21:35.209 --> 00:21:36.029 It's almost like a 479 00:21:36.670 --> 00:21:45.264 Darwinian process of evolution where banks adapt through time and becomes more efficient and more advanced in terms of bringing security. 480 00:21:45.342 --> 00:21:47.545 So I think there will be an adoption period. 481 00:21:47.779 --> 00:21:48.889 Adapt or die. 482 00:21:49.154 --> 00:21:49.639 Exactly. 483 00:21:50.248 --> 00:21:52.498 There's another code that says innovate or die. 484 00:21:52.499 --> 00:21:54.733 And I think it's also part of the same idea. 485 00:21:55.186 --> 00:21:56.389 But this also... 486 00:21:57.076 --> 00:21:58.777 brings the topic around regulation. 487 00:21:58.918 --> 00:22:02.383 So you mentioned some of the US regulators, 488 00:22:02.422 --> 00:22:03.863 but how can regulators, 489 00:22:03.922 --> 00:22:04.805 generally speaking, 490 00:22:04.926 --> 00:22:10.332 effectively support consumer protection whilst fostering innovation in crypto and stable coins? 491 00:22:10.387 --> 00:22:11.293 So you mentioned, 492 00:22:11.309 --> 00:22:11.527 you know, 493 00:22:11.551 --> 00:22:12.371 deposit guarantee, 494 00:22:12.410 --> 00:22:13.012 for example, 495 00:22:13.387 --> 00:22:20.480 but are there other avenues where we can build safety as well from a regulatory standpoint? 496 00:22:20.481 --> 00:22:21.559 Yeah, 497 00:22:21.652 --> 00:22:22.684 so again, 498 00:22:23.246 --> 00:22:25.043 part of this is about education. 499 00:22:25.268 --> 00:22:31.192 Consumers can and should be incentivized to learn how to use crypto and DeFi effectively to gain yield, 500 00:22:31.396 --> 00:22:32.536 to protect their assets, 501 00:22:32.856 --> 00:22:36.583 to safeguard themselves from bad actors. 502 00:22:36.958 --> 00:22:39.622 A well-educated consumer is a safer consumer. 503 00:22:39.981 --> 00:22:44.364 And the technology itself can be used to safeguard consumers. 504 00:22:44.739 --> 00:22:49.286 So we pioneered something called a delegation framework, 505 00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:52.880 which can enable users to... 506 00:22:53.384 --> 00:23:00.593 do things in decentralized finance without being quite as exposed as if you're directly using the technology. 507 00:23:01.191 --> 00:23:03.632 It's a little bit complicated to explain, 508 00:23:04.374 --> 00:23:20.132 but we can create sort of safer vault-like structures that enable people to pay other people or make use of protocols and drastically reduce the kinds of vulnerabilities that might be available openly 509 00:23:20.585 --> 00:23:20.976 on-chain. 510 00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:21.580 Yeah, 511 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:23.603 now looking towards the future. 512 00:23:23.782 --> 00:23:26.165 So the podcast is called 2050 Investors. 513 00:23:26.607 --> 00:23:28.466 And this is a question about the future, 514 00:23:28.505 --> 00:23:29.591 how society will change. 515 00:23:29.646 --> 00:23:31.310 There are a lot of different megatrends, 516 00:23:31.372 --> 00:23:32.349 climate change and others. 517 00:23:32.388 --> 00:23:35.513 But I think the question I was interested in is, 518 00:23:35.755 --> 00:23:39.802 will most of our everyday payments in say 2050 run on blockchain? 519 00:23:40.161 --> 00:23:45.646 And this would be a completely redesigned ecosystem for financial transaction? 520 00:23:46.239 --> 00:23:46.364 Yeah, 521 00:23:46.365 --> 00:23:49.943 2050 is so far away in the pace of innovation is 522 00:23:50.812 --> 00:23:52.272 accelerating very quickly. 523 00:23:52.712 --> 00:23:56.094 So I guess maybe an even more entertaining question would be, 524 00:23:56.915 --> 00:23:58.653 who's doing the payments in 2050? 525 00:23:59.497 --> 00:24:04.051 Will humans be doing most of the payments in 2050 or machine intelligences? 526 00:24:04.473 --> 00:24:05.278 And either way, 527 00:24:05.637 --> 00:24:18.036 I'm pretty confident that all of that will run on sounder rails with decentralized trust at the foundation and everything in the global economy is going to be tokenized by 528 00:24:18.280 --> 00:24:19.440 by 2050. 529 00:24:19.441 --> 00:24:22.061 So absolutely delivery versus payment, 530 00:24:22.382 --> 00:24:22.542 etc. 531 00:24:23.542 --> 00:24:26.483 All of that is going to be based on tokenized instruments. 532 00:24:26.725 --> 00:24:30.163 And there will be qualitative shift in the nature of money. 533 00:24:31.100 --> 00:24:33.944 There are a couple hundred nation states, 534 00:24:34.147 --> 00:24:35.639 lots of them issue their own money, 535 00:24:36.061 --> 00:24:38.530 and that's going to change pretty dramatically. 536 00:24:39.077 --> 00:24:46.264 So there will be probably a good number of stable coin platforms in different instruments. 537 00:24:47.396 --> 00:24:52.099 And there'll probably be a huge number of white labeled stable coins. 538 00:24:52.142 --> 00:24:52.259 So 539 00:24:53.201 --> 00:24:54.623 I might have my own stable coin. 540 00:24:54.681 --> 00:24:56.049 You might have your own stable coin. 541 00:24:57.642 --> 00:25:00.025 It's own stable coin companies, 542 00:25:00.205 --> 00:25:01.033 communities, 543 00:25:01.431 --> 00:25:01.931 et cetera, 544 00:25:02.072 --> 00:25:07.236 will want their logo and their colors on their credit card, 545 00:25:07.283 --> 00:25:07.939 debit card, 546 00:25:08.595 --> 00:25:09.236 stable coin, 547 00:25:09.924 --> 00:25:10.377 et cetera. 548 00:25:10.595 --> 00:25:11.017 And really, 549 00:25:11.392 --> 00:25:16.220 every protocol will be a form of financial instrument, 550 00:25:16.283 --> 00:25:16.658 whether it's 551 00:25:16.708 --> 00:25:35.429 it looks like a utility coin or a stable coin or a loyalty coin that there will be so many different kinds of tokens and many of these will have the character or some of the characteristics of money and that you could use them as a means of payment in some cases as a numeraire some 552 00:25:35.445 --> 00:25:41.289 cases as a store of value yeah yeah and so the question becomes okay there's too much 553 00:25:42.052 --> 00:25:42.773 Money out there. 554 00:25:42.953 --> 00:25:43.134 Money, 555 00:25:43.273 --> 00:25:43.413 yeah. 556 00:25:43.694 --> 00:25:44.794 Competing against each other. 557 00:25:44.895 --> 00:25:46.157 Different kinds of money. 558 00:25:46.255 --> 00:25:47.618 How do we make sense of all this? 559 00:25:48.017 --> 00:25:48.157 Yeah. 560 00:25:48.520 --> 00:25:48.880 Fortunately, 561 00:25:48.977 --> 00:25:49.860 we have computers, 562 00:25:50.520 --> 00:25:50.958 phones, 563 00:25:51.544 --> 00:25:52.020 wallets. 564 00:25:53.044 --> 00:25:56.528 And I can simply have a large portfolio of different tokens. 565 00:25:57.044 --> 00:26:03.888 And I order them so that at the top of the list are the ones that I'd rather get rid of first. 566 00:26:03.950 --> 00:26:06.481 If I can pay somebody for something that I want, 567 00:26:06.716 --> 00:26:08.872 I would want to spend in these tokens. 568 00:26:09.872 --> 00:26:10.216 and 569 00:26:11.028 --> 00:26:11.149 You, 570 00:26:11.249 --> 00:26:11.989 if you're a vendor, 571 00:26:12.690 --> 00:26:15.713 would have a list of the tokens that you'd prefer to receive. 572 00:26:16.174 --> 00:26:18.014 If we can't make a sufficient match, 573 00:26:18.077 --> 00:26:22.780 there'll be some broker that can help us out on that. 574 00:26:23.022 --> 00:26:23.139 Yeah, 575 00:26:23.140 --> 00:26:31.733 that's quite fascinating because it will redefine at its core what it means to exchange and the definition of money will also evolve. 576 00:26:31.749 --> 00:26:31.936 I mean, 577 00:26:31.952 --> 00:26:34.795 we've seen that over millennia across culture and civilizations. 578 00:26:35.170 --> 00:26:36.686 In my unit of account, 579 00:26:37.108 --> 00:26:38.936 what I need to have in order to... 580 00:26:39.860 --> 00:26:41.081 pay my expenses. 581 00:26:41.762 --> 00:26:45.545 And my unit of account might even change between the first of the month and the 582 00:26:45.967 --> 00:26:48.127 15th of the month and the 30th of the month. 583 00:26:48.166 --> 00:26:50.869 So my unit of account may be in U.S. 584 00:26:50.908 --> 00:26:52.713 dollars for certain purposes, 585 00:26:52.830 --> 00:26:53.033 but 586 00:26:53.854 --> 00:27:01.588 I also might want to shift the balance of what I'm looking to take in based on the expenses that I anticipate in my type of business. 587 00:27:02.740 --> 00:27:03.941 These are incredible thoughts. 588 00:27:03.942 --> 00:27:06.163 So this leads me to a last question around AI. 589 00:27:06.583 --> 00:27:10.687 I know you're very passionate about the topic of AI and blockchain intersection. 590 00:27:11.328 --> 00:27:13.929 So you mentioned whether who will be making the payments, 591 00:27:13.968 --> 00:27:16.390 whether it's going to be a GenTech AI or, 592 00:27:16.578 --> 00:27:16.812 you know, 593 00:27:16.835 --> 00:27:17.132 GenAI. 594 00:27:17.296 --> 00:27:17.632 I mean, 595 00:27:17.656 --> 00:27:19.390 we've seen how it's transforming the world. 596 00:27:19.812 --> 00:27:23.296 So how will these two technologies converge? 597 00:27:23.703 --> 00:27:24.718 And I know there are, 598 00:27:24.734 --> 00:27:24.999 you know, 599 00:27:25.328 --> 00:27:29.749 data centers that are using an energy efficient method to train AI models, 600 00:27:29.781 --> 00:27:29.906 etc. 601 00:27:30.265 --> 00:27:30.828 as a way to 602 00:27:31.540 --> 00:27:33.221 find alternative use cases. 603 00:27:33.602 --> 00:27:37.768 But any thoughts on how the two worlds can converge in the future? 604 00:27:38.268 --> 00:27:43.010 What we're going to need is for big tech to do some of the things that it's doing now, 605 00:27:43.588 --> 00:27:52.128 build large language models and other approaches to building foundational infrastructure so that all the knowledge, 606 00:27:52.424 --> 00:27:53.237 best practices, 607 00:27:53.284 --> 00:27:53.721 et cetera, 608 00:27:53.909 --> 00:27:58.565 of the world can be made more easily available to everybody. 609 00:27:59.143 --> 00:28:00.565 So they're building this. 610 00:28:01.232 --> 00:28:02.493 really smart search engine, 611 00:28:02.993 --> 00:28:04.874 basically. 612 00:28:05.335 --> 00:28:07.092 And we all need interfaces to that. 613 00:28:07.893 --> 00:28:12.452 And our interfaces should not be ones that they control. 614 00:28:13.194 --> 00:28:15.014 We should have our own, 615 00:28:15.452 --> 00:28:18.381 call it a digital twin agent ally, 616 00:28:18.991 --> 00:28:23.678 a controller that we can share all of our information with. 617 00:28:24.522 --> 00:28:25.444 And protect ourselves. 618 00:28:25.600 --> 00:28:26.538 We can protect, 619 00:28:27.163 --> 00:28:30.366 so it can operate on our behalf out in the world. 620 00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:37.803 It can control access to lots of different foundational models and mixture of experts like systems. 621 00:28:38.283 --> 00:28:40.478 And it's really doing our bidding in a safe way. 622 00:28:41.783 --> 00:28:44.580 If some of these AI systems are tokenized, 623 00:28:45.666 --> 00:28:49.689 let's say OpenAI decides that it wants to be actually OpenAI. 624 00:28:51.221 --> 00:28:53.002 And it decides to tokenize itself. 625 00:28:53.143 --> 00:28:57.439 Maybe there's a decentralized organization that helps steer its policies. 626 00:28:57.689 --> 00:28:58.643 and maybe it's... 627 00:28:59.388 --> 00:29:03.573 OpenAI tokens whenever I send it useful information. 628 00:29:03.835 --> 00:29:04.053 Maybe 629 00:29:04.475 --> 00:29:13.725 I and my agent ally are in constant communication with the brain trust at the middle of OpenAI and a bunch of Gemini and other systems. 630 00:29:13.983 --> 00:29:20.327 If I'm getting paid to help them stay up to speed with what's going on in the world and get smarter, 631 00:29:20.889 --> 00:29:21.327 et cetera, 632 00:29:21.905 --> 00:29:24.686 I can be sitting behind my user interface. 633 00:29:24.749 --> 00:29:26.467 My user interface has my back, 634 00:29:26.499 --> 00:29:27.702 so it's not going to share anything. 635 00:29:28.561 --> 00:29:28.780 Yeah. 636 00:29:28.944 --> 00:29:29.865 thinks would harm. 637 00:29:29.866 --> 00:29:31.027 Against your own interests. 638 00:29:31.587 --> 00:29:31.927 Exactly. 639 00:29:32.488 --> 00:29:42.759 But I can be an independent economic actor in this giant hybrid human-machine organism that is getting all wired up. 640 00:29:42.954 --> 00:29:43.157 Well, 641 00:29:43.197 --> 00:29:44.861 this is a fascinating idea. 642 00:29:44.876 --> 00:29:45.103 I mean, 643 00:29:45.134 --> 00:29:49.243 it's almost similar to the Neuralink idea of Elon Musk, 644 00:29:49.306 --> 00:29:52.181 where you have augmented human because... 645 00:29:52.728 --> 00:29:58.814 One interesting statistic is that the upload-download speed of a human brain is between 150 to 500 words per minute. 646 00:29:59.435 --> 00:30:03.560 A machine can process information at 1.5 billion words per minute. 647 00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:06.365 But a picture is worth a thousand words. 648 00:30:08.404 --> 00:30:13.044 And so if you can understand the language of our brains, 649 00:30:13.294 --> 00:30:20.779 and if you can send current into the brains to evoke certain impressions and read, 650 00:30:21.012 --> 00:30:22.295 from different parts of the brains. 651 00:30:22.938 --> 00:30:28.049 I think our bandwidth is quite a bit higher than a few hundred words per minute. 652 00:30:28.511 --> 00:30:28.811 Brilliant. 653 00:30:28.871 --> 00:30:29.012 Yeah, 654 00:30:29.052 --> 00:30:30.053 that's definitely the case. 655 00:30:30.073 --> 00:30:30.272 I mean, 656 00:30:30.273 --> 00:30:32.874 we have 100 billion neurons and 100 trillion synapses. 657 00:30:32.936 --> 00:30:35.339 So when you look at the permutations and possibilities, 658 00:30:35.596 --> 00:30:37.960 we're definitely not using the full potential. 659 00:30:37.983 --> 00:30:40.319 Just need to address them all individually. 660 00:30:40.320 --> 00:30:40.882 Absolutely. 661 00:30:41.507 --> 00:30:41.647 Well, 662 00:30:41.686 --> 00:30:41.921 listen, 663 00:30:41.983 --> 00:30:44.569 so we've covered the allocated time. 664 00:30:45.350 --> 00:30:47.210 This has been an amazing conversation. 665 00:30:47.288 --> 00:30:49.960 Thanks so much for your insights and perspective. 666 00:30:50.038 --> 00:30:52.054 And let's see what the future holds. 667 00:30:52.569 --> 00:30:52.835 Awesome. 668 00:30:53.022 --> 00:30:53.319 Thank you. 669 00:30:53.538 --> 00:30:53.913 Enjoyed it. 670 00:30:54.054 --> 00:30:54.382 Brilliant. 671 00:30:56.991 --> 00:30:57.116 So, 672 00:30:57.319 --> 00:30:57.554 Siri. 673 00:30:57.951 --> 00:31:00.093 Next time you hear the spurs of Billy Crypto, 674 00:31:00.515 --> 00:31:01.155 ask yourself, 675 00:31:01.854 --> 00:31:04.315 is he an outlaw or a pioneer? 676 00:31:04.979 --> 00:31:07.018 In what kind of future are we building, 677 00:31:07.323 --> 00:31:08.120 coin by coin, 678 00:31:08.362 --> 00:31:09.159 block by block? 679 00:31:10.206 --> 00:31:12.284 I prefer solar panels to mining rigs, 680 00:31:12.542 --> 00:31:13.323 but what do I know? 681 00:31:13.784 --> 00:31:16.143 I'm just the voice of reason in a world gone digital. 682 00:31:16.631 --> 00:31:19.393 We'll leave you with a quote from Satoshi Nakamoto, 683 00:31:19.694 --> 00:31:21.376 the elusive creator of Bitcoin. 684 00:31:21.716 --> 00:31:24.380 If you don't believe it or don't get it, 685 00:31:24.837 --> 00:31:26.962 I don't have the time to try to convince you. 686 00:31:27.423 --> 00:31:27.719 Sorry. 687 00:31:28.641 --> 00:31:30.063 And here's one from the Old West. 688 00:31:30.485 --> 00:31:31.985 Courage is being scared to death, 689 00:31:32.102 --> 00:31:33.212 but saddling up anyway. 690 00:31:33.821 --> 00:31:34.508 John Wayne. 691 00:31:39.508 --> 00:31:42.493 Thank you for listening to this episode of 2050 Investors. 692 00:31:42.962 --> 00:31:45.993 And thanks to Joseph Lubin for his invaluable insights. 693 00:31:46.403 --> 00:31:49.467 I hope you've enjoyed this ride through the world of cryptocurrencies, 694 00:31:49.627 --> 00:31:50.086 blockchain, 695 00:31:50.226 --> 00:31:50.586 DeFi, 696 00:31:50.629 --> 00:31:51.449 and stablecoins. 697 00:31:52.871 --> 00:31:54.894 You can find the show on your regular streaming apps. 698 00:31:55.152 --> 00:31:56.191 If you've enjoyed the show, 699 00:31:56.535 --> 00:31:57.652 help us spread the word. 700 00:31:58.152 --> 00:31:59.636 Please take a minute to subscribe, 701 00:31:59.840 --> 00:32:00.215 review, 702 00:32:00.355 --> 00:32:01.996 and rate it on Apple Podcasts. 703 00:32:02.676 --> 00:32:04.082 See you at the next episode. 704 00:32:12.035 --> 00:32:14.785 While the following podcast discusses the financial markets. 705 00:32:15.031 --> 00:32:17.935 It does not recommend any particular investment decision. 706 00:32:18.277 --> 00:32:21.263 If you are unsure of the merits of any investment decision, 707 00:32:21.623 --> 00:32:23.724 please seek professional advice.