WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.068 --> 00:00:08.830 I've had the pleasure to meet Felipe Romero Beltran, 2 00:00:09.212 --> 00:00:11.150 a Colombian documentary photographer, 3 00:00:11.775 --> 00:00:13.017 for this podcast. 4 00:00:13.775 --> 00:00:17.197 Felipe has been living abroad for 14 years, 5 00:00:17.845 --> 00:00:26.064 so migration and this experience of exile is very personal and is very present in his work, 6 00:00:26.908 --> 00:00:28.548 which probably explains that he... 7 00:00:29.296 --> 00:00:32.099 mainly focuses on migration in his projects. 8 00:00:33.380 --> 00:00:41.365 But what is particularly striking in Filippo's work is that he apprehends migration from the point of view of the body. 9 00:00:42.248 --> 00:00:51.412 The body is really the metaphor in his work of a state of coercion and tension that is inherent in the experience of exile. 10 00:00:51.865 --> 00:00:58.646 This interview is a great opportunity to delve into a very singular documentary approach since I 11 00:00:59.148 --> 00:01:05.709 Felipe has developed over the years a very personal language that is at the intersection of photography, 12 00:01:06.108 --> 00:01:06.831 performance, 13 00:01:07.291 --> 00:01:08.034 collaboration, 14 00:01:08.448 --> 00:01:11.807 as well as conceptual research and theory. 15 00:01:13.729 --> 00:01:13.948 Hi, 16 00:01:14.073 --> 00:01:15.768 I'm Lily and you're listening to Vision, 17 00:01:15.924 --> 00:01:18.018 the podcast that brings images to life. 18 00:01:20.768 --> 00:01:23.331 This episode was made in partnership with MPB. 19 00:01:23.716 --> 00:01:26.198 the world's largest online platform for buying, 20 00:01:26.358 --> 00:01:28.841 selling and trading used photo and video gear. 21 00:01:29.462 --> 00:01:30.282 If you're interested, 22 00:01:30.383 --> 00:01:32.462 there's a link in the description of this podcast. 23 00:01:37.266 --> 00:01:39.774 I'm trying to think about a photograph, 24 00:01:39.805 --> 00:01:43.540 but actually the first thing that came in my mind was a piece, 25 00:01:43.541 --> 00:01:45.243 an art piece that it's from 26 00:01:45.602 --> 00:01:46.165 Oscar Muñoz, 27 00:01:46.166 --> 00:01:47.399 a Colombian artist, 28 00:01:48.118 --> 00:01:53.118 that actually he draws with a pencil and water. 29 00:01:53.512 --> 00:01:54.433 on the concrete, 30 00:01:54.752 --> 00:01:55.352 on the street, 31 00:01:55.833 --> 00:01:56.413 a face. 32 00:01:57.013 --> 00:01:57.653 And somehow, 33 00:01:57.852 --> 00:01:59.513 even if it's not a photograph, 34 00:01:59.993 --> 00:02:05.794 that reminds me two moments or two conditions of the photographic image. 35 00:02:05.872 --> 00:02:06.513 The first of all, 36 00:02:06.934 --> 00:02:12.763 the impossibility of representation is this impossible attempt to represent something. 37 00:02:13.278 --> 00:02:13.950 And secondly, 38 00:02:14.513 --> 00:02:21.497 the actual nature or condition of the photographic medium as technology in our times. 39 00:02:21.903 --> 00:02:22.560 So it's not a... 40 00:02:23.020 --> 00:02:28.385 photograph itself but I think it speaks a lot on the photographic condition in our days. 41 00:02:44.706 --> 00:02:44.815 I'm 42 00:02:44.940 --> 00:02:45.815 Felipe Romero Beltrán, 43 00:02:45.987 --> 00:02:48.706 I'm a Colombian artist based in Paris. 44 00:02:49.065 --> 00:02:51.674 I started with photography when I was 45 00:02:52.372 --> 00:02:53.153 Around 15, 46 00:02:54.533 --> 00:02:55.256 the beginning, 47 00:02:55.596 --> 00:02:55.756 well, 48 00:02:55.815 --> 00:02:57.397 I was born and raised in Colombia, 49 00:02:57.658 --> 00:02:58.158 in Bogota. 50 00:02:58.498 --> 00:03:00.041 And my family and, 51 00:03:00.377 --> 00:03:00.604 you know, 52 00:03:00.605 --> 00:03:01.041 my friends, 53 00:03:01.065 --> 00:03:05.604 my relatives didn't have a strong connection with the photographic medium. 54 00:03:06.690 --> 00:03:09.502 So I was quite far away of the practice. 55 00:03:09.768 --> 00:03:14.299 And then somehow I found a camera through my sister, 56 00:03:14.393 --> 00:03:15.455 I guess. 57 00:03:16.252 --> 00:03:16.596 And 58 00:03:16.955 --> 00:03:21.377 I completely felt obsessed with the photographic medium. 59 00:03:21.920 --> 00:03:24.242 And then from that moment on, 60 00:03:24.562 --> 00:03:27.804 I started to make pictures at the very beginning with my family, 61 00:03:29.007 --> 00:03:32.031 with my friends and in social events. 62 00:03:32.312 --> 00:03:33.492 And after that, 63 00:03:33.789 --> 00:03:36.531 I applied for a scholarship in Argentina, 64 00:03:36.672 --> 00:03:37.414 in Buenos Aires, 65 00:03:38.101 --> 00:03:41.257 to study a bachelor degree in photography. 66 00:03:41.836 --> 00:03:47.789 I got the scholarship in 2009 or 2010, 67 00:03:47.790 --> 00:03:49.820 and then I moved there for my studies. 68 00:03:50.432 --> 00:03:51.293 When I was finished, 69 00:03:51.413 --> 00:03:51.773 actually, 70 00:03:51.793 --> 00:03:54.355 when I was finished my bachelor degree, 71 00:03:54.676 --> 00:03:56.398 I applied for another scholarship. 72 00:03:57.098 --> 00:03:57.258 Well, 73 00:03:57.301 --> 00:03:58.238 more than a scholarship, 74 00:03:58.262 --> 00:04:00.738 it was a residence in Jerusalem, 75 00:04:01.004 --> 00:04:01.121 in 76 00:04:01.504 --> 00:04:02.660 Palestine. And 77 00:04:03.207 --> 00:04:06.848 I got the scholarship at the Hebrew University for almost two years. 78 00:04:07.207 --> 00:04:08.863 So I moved there for that time. 79 00:04:09.676 --> 00:04:09.863 Also, 80 00:04:10.066 --> 00:04:10.316 you know, 81 00:04:10.317 --> 00:04:18.973 like trying to question and keep pursuing this eager and this question about the photographic image that I had. 82 00:04:19.808 --> 00:04:20.509 since the beginning. 83 00:04:21.290 --> 00:04:21.771 After that, 84 00:04:21.772 --> 00:04:22.831 it was 2014, 85 00:04:22.832 --> 00:04:26.396 2015, 86 00:04:27.056 --> 00:04:32.845 I came back to Argentina and I applied to another scholarship for a master degree that I got in Madrid. 87 00:04:33.564 --> 00:04:33.681 So 88 00:04:34.782 --> 00:04:45.720 I started my master degree in 2015 and then when I finished I decided to apply for a PhD to continue my, 89 00:04:46.501 --> 00:04:46.673 well, 90 00:04:46.736 --> 00:04:47.751 my questioning on. 91 00:04:48.580 --> 00:04:54.333 more on the academic side of photography and I finished the PhD last year, 92 00:04:54.896 --> 00:04:55.357 fortunately. 93 00:04:59.813 --> 00:05:01.995 I was born and raised in Bogota and 94 00:05:02.336 --> 00:05:08.438 I was supposed to enter to the university to study mathematics and philosophy. 95 00:05:09.446 --> 00:05:13.766 And then when I discovered this apparatus of camera, 96 00:05:14.610 --> 00:05:23.079 I instantly get obsessed with that because I was used to categorize and to approach reality through words. 97 00:05:23.376 --> 00:05:23.501 So, 98 00:05:23.813 --> 00:05:24.344 for example, 99 00:05:24.376 --> 00:05:28.422 you say a table and you categorize that object as a table. 100 00:05:28.757 --> 00:05:31.580 you said book and you categorize that object as a book. 101 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:33.021 With photography, 102 00:05:33.642 --> 00:05:36.326 it's almost completely the opposite. 103 00:05:36.822 --> 00:05:38.603 So it's really, 104 00:05:38.845 --> 00:05:45.900 really complicated and complex since it's a non-verbal way of approaching reality. 105 00:05:46.197 --> 00:05:46.822 And in that sense, 106 00:05:46.838 --> 00:05:49.400 it's much older than verbal knowledge. 107 00:05:49.822 --> 00:05:50.916 So I was completely, 108 00:05:50.994 --> 00:05:54.385 completely keen on questioning this way of, 109 00:05:55.260 --> 00:05:55.588 let's say, 110 00:05:55.822 --> 00:05:57.338 communication with reality. 111 00:05:57.905 --> 00:06:02.308 I have this approach on a really basic level. 112 00:06:02.531 --> 00:06:04.890 It's like a really instinctive, 113 00:06:05.054 --> 00:06:06.953 it's primary, 114 00:06:07.195 --> 00:06:10.179 and it's not about words, 115 00:06:10.296 --> 00:06:12.703 it's about pure image making. 116 00:06:18.265 --> 00:06:23.843 I had a really big influence when I started my career as a photographer because, 117 00:06:24.296 --> 00:06:25.234 as I said before, 118 00:06:26.109 --> 00:06:26.234 I... 119 00:06:26.881 --> 00:06:27.822 Studying Argentina, 120 00:06:28.003 --> 00:06:28.643 as you may know, 121 00:06:28.804 --> 00:06:37.208 Argentina has quite a special and a strong relation within the camera and the social events. 122 00:06:37.770 --> 00:06:39.075 So normally, 123 00:06:39.692 --> 00:06:45.005 and it's already a tradition in Argentina to use the camera as a tool of social change, 124 00:06:45.395 --> 00:06:49.364 so it's quite embedded and quite surrounded by this, 125 00:06:50.442 --> 00:06:50.817 let's say, 126 00:06:51.130 --> 00:06:55.692 condition and also definition of the photographic act. 127 00:06:56.505 --> 00:06:58.946 And that was at the very beginning. 128 00:06:59.085 --> 00:06:59.665 Afterwards, 129 00:06:59.866 --> 00:07:06.223 I started to develop an interest more into cinema and painting. 130 00:07:06.786 --> 00:07:07.770 And more recently, 131 00:07:08.466 --> 00:07:11.145 and especially because of the projects that I've been developing, 132 00:07:11.708 --> 00:07:17.934 I'm quite interested in Baroque painting and probably filmmakers from the 133 00:07:18.544 --> 00:07:22.325 70s in Italy and some of them in France. 134 00:07:22.825 --> 00:07:25.184 Baroque painting has 135 00:07:25.749 --> 00:07:31.595 At least for me the same question that I'm trying to solve in my photographic practice, 136 00:07:31.614 --> 00:07:33.317 that it's the question of the body. 137 00:07:34.239 --> 00:07:35.099 In the sense that 138 00:07:35.763 --> 00:07:46.810 I'm trying through my practice to make evident and to register and to put in the table how certain languages, 139 00:07:47.263 --> 00:07:48.606 in my case the law, 140 00:07:49.278 --> 00:07:51.560 categorize and define a body. 141 00:07:51.935 --> 00:07:53.794 But it's impossible and it's a 142 00:07:54.293 --> 00:08:01.682 an impossible attempt to define what it means and what it actually means to define and categorize a body. 143 00:08:13.276 --> 00:08:17.619 My approach to photography has been changing especially 144 00:08:17.620 --> 00:08:21.838 the last probably five years or six years because I've been, 145 00:08:22.307 --> 00:08:23.369 as I told before, 146 00:08:24.189 --> 00:08:34.878 I've been writing a PhD more on the theoretical side on image making that of course inform and fit my practice as a photographer. 147 00:08:35.698 --> 00:08:44.143 Probably not in a direct way but of course it made me transition to certain ways of thinking, 148 00:08:44.206 --> 00:08:47.175 certain ways of approaching reality that 149 00:08:47.518 --> 00:08:51.956 I'm trying to develop that on my photographic practice. 150 00:08:52.457 --> 00:08:52.998 That said, 151 00:08:53.178 --> 00:09:11.451 I'm really interested in a type of image that is silent and probably more related to a certain instinct of image making more than as an illustration of concepts or as an illustration of ideas. 152 00:09:11.888 --> 00:09:15.982 That it's also another way to use photography as a tool. 153 00:09:16.560 --> 00:09:21.826 I normally use medium and large format film. 154 00:09:22.817 --> 00:09:23.377 Sometimes, 155 00:09:23.517 --> 00:09:24.198 for example, 156 00:09:24.257 --> 00:09:26.478 in the case of the project called Dialect, 157 00:09:26.558 --> 00:09:30.480 I use digital because it was the easiest way to, 158 00:09:31.495 --> 00:09:31.738 you know, 159 00:09:31.761 --> 00:09:34.941 to relate with the subject that I was photographing. 160 00:09:35.277 --> 00:09:40.300 And also it was kind of a learning field that I was developing at the time. 161 00:09:40.722 --> 00:09:42.394 So I decided to use digital. 162 00:09:42.769 --> 00:09:44.659 I don't have any preference. 163 00:09:45.144 --> 00:09:47.581 It's true that if I use digital, 164 00:09:47.941 --> 00:09:51.769 I need to work more on the photographic surface because 165 00:09:52.361 --> 00:10:11.714 it gives you a raw image then you have to work on it and that's why when i shoot digital i work with the team for the post-production to help me to achieve these densities and the contrast and the colors and the general surface that i wanted to achieve on 166 00:10:11.745 --> 00:10:12.667 a digital file 167 00:10:20.808 --> 00:10:30.397 I start my academic path through certain questions that I had that I couldn't solve through the practicing of photography. 168 00:10:31.061 --> 00:10:39.413 That means that I didn't want to put words on the practice that I was doing at the time. 169 00:10:39.741 --> 00:10:40.366 So I was doing, 170 00:10:40.866 --> 00:10:41.147 let's say, 171 00:10:41.210 --> 00:10:48.413 purely image making and then on the side I start to develop an intellectual field, 172 00:10:48.460 --> 00:10:49.632 an academic field. 173 00:10:50.973 --> 00:10:54.616 to solve another question that I had around image making. 174 00:10:54.694 --> 00:10:55.015 For me, 175 00:10:55.698 --> 00:11:06.601 the act of photography is sometimes questioning and sometimes answering certain doubts and certain questions and demands that I have into reality. 176 00:11:07.304 --> 00:11:11.038 And the academic side helped me doing the same, 177 00:11:11.398 --> 00:11:18.944 but through words and through verbal knowledge that sometimes I can't solve that through my practice. 178 00:11:19.356 --> 00:11:20.337 So that's why I've been, 179 00:11:21.058 --> 00:11:21.218 well, 180 00:11:21.338 --> 00:11:24.740 I've been trying to develop a conceptual field, 181 00:11:25.443 --> 00:11:29.506 an academic field on the side of my practice. 182 00:11:30.365 --> 00:11:30.928 For example, 183 00:11:30.967 --> 00:11:31.584 my PhD, 184 00:11:32.029 --> 00:11:38.756 it's about documentary image and it has nothing to do with my practice itself. 185 00:11:39.522 --> 00:11:40.600 But of course, 186 00:11:41.381 --> 00:11:43.256 it's kind of I'm the same person. 187 00:11:43.334 --> 00:11:48.100 So it informed me as a photographer and my practice. 188 00:11:48.388 --> 00:11:50.490 in for me as a researcher. 189 00:11:51.170 --> 00:11:55.135 So that's why I've been trying to figure out how to balance these both, 190 00:11:55.654 --> 00:11:55.877 you know, 191 00:11:56.197 --> 00:11:57.440 questions and these both, 192 00:11:58.377 --> 00:11:58.861 let's say, 193 00:11:59.377 --> 00:12:13.994 sides of my practice as an artist and at the same time it helped me a lot to balance sometimes when I'm too close to image making to keep distance a little bit and the other way around. 194 00:12:27.940 --> 00:12:36.008 It was mainly because of the influence that I had at the time when I started doing photography. 195 00:12:37.532 --> 00:12:38.407 I came from Bogota, 196 00:12:38.571 --> 00:12:38.712 so 197 00:12:39.454 --> 00:12:47.485 Bogota has a quite strong social history and relation with image making as in Buenos Aires. 198 00:12:47.516 --> 00:12:53.844 And then I moved to Argentina that reinforced that notion of the relation between reality. 199 00:12:54.812 --> 00:12:56.394 the photographic apparatus, 200 00:12:56.413 --> 00:12:57.835 the photographic technology, 201 00:12:58.556 --> 00:12:58.855 as, 202 00:13:00.339 --> 00:13:00.718 let's say, 203 00:13:00.719 --> 00:13:09.026 a translation of the reality normally related to social movements and to social issues. 204 00:13:09.464 --> 00:13:14.730 So I think that condition is still on myself as an artist. 205 00:13:15.151 --> 00:13:15.448 But then, 206 00:13:15.495 --> 00:13:16.089 of course, 207 00:13:16.558 --> 00:13:23.355 I've been developing and I've been trying to figure out how to de-place this direct notion. 208 00:13:23.864 --> 00:13:34.485 in certain different ways that allows me to wider the spectrum of reality first of all and also the possibilities of the projects. 209 00:13:48.829 --> 00:13:53.235 I start to work in these projects first of all because of my 210 00:13:53.776 --> 00:13:57.060 unconditioned migrant in Spain in this case, 211 00:13:58.322 --> 00:14:01.923 then it's true that every single project that I start 212 00:14:02.423 --> 00:14:12.634 I never started on that let's say on that scope of define or categorize political or social case. 213 00:14:13.119 --> 00:14:23.181 I always start the project thinking about what I have in front of me or what I have around me and then of course these political layers. 214 00:14:24.268 --> 00:14:42.086 raises up because you have certain responsibility what you're doing but my first instinct is on image making is not on on a verbal level it's more about something that intrigues me and question me on 215 00:14:42.848 --> 00:14:44.169 a photographic level. 216 00:14:51.176 --> 00:14:55.278 Dialect started in 2020 because 217 00:14:55.660 --> 00:14:58.340 I was invited to a workshop in 218 00:14:58.825 --> 00:14:59.426 South Spain, 219 00:14:59.442 --> 00:15:00.020 in Seville, 220 00:15:00.864 --> 00:15:03.051 to share my own experience as a migrant. 221 00:15:03.082 --> 00:15:07.270 So it has nothing to do with my photographic practice. 222 00:15:07.332 --> 00:15:11.832 I was invited as a person who has been living in 223 00:15:12.256 --> 00:15:14.819 Spain for a few years and 224 00:15:15.178 --> 00:15:24.666 I was invited to share my own path from Colombia to Spain and how I managed to stay in Spain regarding papers, 225 00:15:24.729 --> 00:15:25.909 regarding documentation, 226 00:15:26.190 --> 00:15:26.549 business, 227 00:15:26.612 --> 00:15:26.729 etc. 228 00:15:27.409 --> 00:15:29.940 So in that workshop we were around 229 00:15:30.627 --> 00:15:33.018 30 people from different backgrounds, 230 00:15:33.330 --> 00:15:34.893 more Latino guys as me, 231 00:15:36.018 --> 00:15:36.643 people from 232 00:15:37.268 --> 00:15:38.065 Eastern Europe, 233 00:15:38.362 --> 00:15:38.955 people from 234 00:15:39.737 --> 00:15:40.190 Maghrebi. 235 00:15:40.756 --> 00:15:42.216 people from Central Africa. 236 00:15:42.977 --> 00:15:49.379 And then I encountered a group of young migrants who recently crossed the Mediterranean Sea from Morocco, 237 00:15:49.817 --> 00:15:52.301 from Tangier to the coast of Cadiz. 238 00:15:53.239 --> 00:15:56.020 And we instantly connect somehow. 239 00:15:56.520 --> 00:15:57.676 At the time they were minor, 240 00:15:57.754 --> 00:15:59.332 so it was literally, 241 00:15:59.333 --> 00:16:00.848 it was nothing to do with my, 242 00:16:01.457 --> 00:16:04.035 let's say with the project as a project itself. 243 00:16:04.442 --> 00:16:06.645 I just started to to make pictures for them, 244 00:16:07.176 --> 00:16:08.145 for their Instagrams, 245 00:16:08.207 --> 00:16:08.598 for their, 246 00:16:09.379 --> 00:16:09.629 you know, 247 00:16:09.660 --> 00:16:10.176 personal. 248 00:16:10.804 --> 00:16:11.305 interested. 249 00:16:11.945 --> 00:16:13.988 And with time, 250 00:16:14.308 --> 00:16:14.468 well, 251 00:16:14.830 --> 00:16:16.591 they become adults. 252 00:16:17.189 --> 00:16:17.912 And then 253 00:16:18.595 --> 00:16:30.689 I realized that I could probably establish a project on a three-year period because three years is the amount of time that if you arrive without documentation in Spain, 254 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:36.736 you can claim a special bureaucracy to get the documentation that it's called arraigo social. 255 00:16:37.283 --> 00:16:39.876 So that means that if you stay in the country for 256 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:42.182 three years without making trouble, 257 00:16:42.221 --> 00:16:43.963 without getting off the country, 258 00:16:44.385 --> 00:16:46.307 without being deported, 259 00:16:47.147 --> 00:16:51.612 you actually can access to a legal residency after three years. 260 00:16:52.010 --> 00:16:52.495 So for me, 261 00:16:52.573 --> 00:16:55.971 that scope of time was quite interesting because, 262 00:16:56.612 --> 00:16:57.081 first of all, 263 00:16:57.082 --> 00:16:58.378 they were young people, 264 00:16:59.174 --> 00:16:59.424 you know, 265 00:17:00.018 --> 00:17:02.690 with a lot of things to say, 266 00:17:02.768 --> 00:17:03.846 a lot of things to do, 267 00:17:04.378 --> 00:17:08.721 with a passion and eager to make a living in Seville in this case. 268 00:17:09.348 --> 00:17:12.871 And the project started as a photographic series of a group of guys, 269 00:17:13.811 --> 00:17:14.654 also related to, 270 00:17:15.232 --> 00:17:15.475 you know, 271 00:17:15.514 --> 00:17:17.256 these roles of masculinity, 272 00:17:17.475 --> 00:17:21.701 these roles on this mini society that there were around 273 00:17:22.037 --> 00:17:23.045 15 guys. 274 00:17:23.459 --> 00:17:28.545 At the end I ended up working with seven or eight for the long-term project. 275 00:17:28.748 --> 00:17:29.873 So that means that 276 00:17:30.248 --> 00:17:35.061 I was quite interested more into the dynamics of the group, 277 00:17:35.498 --> 00:17:36.451 but then of course 278 00:17:37.976 --> 00:17:47.747 I realized that it has a strong political layer and I have to address that for basically responsibility on the project, 279 00:17:47.762 --> 00:17:53.809 especially when I start to show the images that actually 280 00:17:54.450 --> 00:17:57.622 I start to show the images after two years of working. 281 00:17:58.293 --> 00:18:05.590 So it gave me time to develop and to really work on something that I was trying also to learn. 282 00:18:05.606 --> 00:18:06.684 It was not nothing. 283 00:18:07.036 --> 00:18:10.296 conceived as a project, 284 00:18:10.376 --> 00:18:11.476 as a photography project. 285 00:18:11.477 --> 00:18:13.539 It was nothing at all like that. 286 00:18:14.238 --> 00:18:17.796 And then after two years of the work in progress with them, 287 00:18:18.437 --> 00:18:24.867 I started to put together some images and to present the images to some curators, 288 00:18:24.914 --> 00:18:32.835 to some prices and venues to see if it could work in an artistic environment. 289 00:18:43.432 --> 00:18:48.431 One of the first questions for me on dialect when I started the project, 290 00:18:49.275 --> 00:18:55.255 it was about the communication and in communication between the language and the body. 291 00:18:56.193 --> 00:19:01.951 The language in this case is the law and the body are the guys who I was photographing. 292 00:19:02.919 --> 00:19:03.138 And 293 00:19:03.701 --> 00:19:07.357 I did a preliminary exercise that is called Recital, 294 00:19:07.419 --> 00:19:08.419 it's a video piece, 295 00:19:09.154 --> 00:19:10.091 that I asked 296 00:19:10.482 --> 00:19:11.904 Joseph, Javiv and Bilal. 297 00:19:12.540 --> 00:19:16.023 to read the first four pages of the immigration law, 298 00:19:16.164 --> 00:19:17.343 the Spanish immigration law, 299 00:19:18.085 --> 00:19:20.246 when they were actually learning Spanish. 300 00:19:20.589 --> 00:19:30.558 So it's a recording of around 20 minutes each one where they're trying to read the index of the 301 00:19:31.105 --> 00:19:38.839 Spanish immigration law and the piece shows quite well and quite evident the 302 00:19:40.022 --> 00:19:40.182 Well, 303 00:19:40.242 --> 00:19:48.371 the tension and the struggle between the body and this law that is trying to categorize the body. 304 00:19:48.511 --> 00:19:48.769 For me, 305 00:19:48.894 --> 00:19:50.636 that was one of the first, 306 00:19:50.793 --> 00:19:53.355 probably the first question about dialects, 307 00:19:53.894 --> 00:19:58.746 how a law or how a document can categorize a body. 308 00:19:58.933 --> 00:20:02.886 And if you see and if you read the Spanish immigration law, 309 00:20:03.261 --> 00:20:04.746 it has around 100 pages. 310 00:20:05.183 --> 00:20:08.183 So it's an impossible attempt to define, 311 00:20:08.277 --> 00:20:09.527 to somehow... 312 00:20:10.466 --> 00:20:18.354 categorize and set what is a body and specifically what is a migrant body in Spain. 313 00:20:19.296 --> 00:20:28.928 The book for me it's a quite interesting device because first of all it's an object that has been present with us for a long time. 314 00:20:29.350 --> 00:20:29.866 Secondly, 315 00:20:30.444 --> 00:20:39.100 it allows me to probably explore another ways to put images on reality. 316 00:20:39.870 --> 00:20:42.993 And also because it's portable, 317 00:20:43.273 --> 00:20:46.515 so it's easy to carry on and to present to people. 318 00:20:47.179 --> 00:20:52.366 And also that means that it has somehow an intimate relation with the viewer. 319 00:20:52.921 --> 00:20:56.788 So that's why I'm quite interested in working with books, 320 00:20:57.335 --> 00:20:59.976 especially for these last two projects. 321 00:21:00.085 --> 00:21:05.194 I did another project that was not meant to end in a book, 322 00:21:05.788 --> 00:21:07.616 but with Dialect and Bravo, 323 00:21:07.882 --> 00:21:08.382 I think. 324 00:21:09.078 --> 00:21:14.704 It was quite important to finalize the project into a book. 325 00:21:15.263 --> 00:21:16.724 Bravo is more, 326 00:21:17.169 --> 00:21:17.442 let's say, 327 00:21:17.443 --> 00:21:18.208 a catalog, 328 00:21:18.825 --> 00:21:19.106 and 329 00:21:19.692 --> 00:21:27.755 Dialog was more an attempt to put the images and text into the same object as a device. 330 00:21:28.489 --> 00:21:33.724 That's why also I'm using different mediums and different disciplines to, 331 00:21:34.458 --> 00:21:34.739 let's say, 332 00:21:34.770 --> 00:21:36.208 to approach the project, 333 00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:38.208 because I think the book is a really good... 334 00:21:38.714 --> 00:21:46.861 format that allows us to not mix but put together different type of knowledge. 335 00:21:51.846 --> 00:21:57.931 Bravo is a project that I started in 2021 mainly for two reasons. 336 00:21:59.010 --> 00:22:06.900 The first one was because my sister moved to Mexico at that time and I wanted to get close to her. 337 00:22:07.798 --> 00:22:12.702 It's been already almost 14 years that I've been away from my place. 338 00:22:13.503 --> 00:22:16.850 Then the second reason is because I had some friends in Monterey, 339 00:22:16.905 --> 00:22:21.835 that it's the biggest city closer to the borderline that I wanted to visit to. 340 00:22:22.374 --> 00:22:24.577 So I went there in 2021, 341 00:22:24.578 --> 00:22:27.624 at the beginning of 2021, 342 00:22:27.625 --> 00:22:29.405 to see if I could, 343 00:22:29.780 --> 00:22:29.999 you know, 344 00:22:30.217 --> 00:22:31.405 resonate with something. 345 00:22:31.514 --> 00:22:33.170 And quite quickly, 346 00:22:33.280 --> 00:22:35.405 I realized that there was something. 347 00:22:36.074 --> 00:22:40.496 especially up north in Monterey and closer to the borderline, 348 00:22:40.520 --> 00:22:43.723 that was resonating with me quite closely. 349 00:22:43.864 --> 00:22:45.723 And I wasn't sure why it was that. 350 00:22:46.403 --> 00:22:47.707 And after a while, 351 00:22:47.723 --> 00:22:53.137 I realized that the migration path from Colombia to crossing the entire continent, 352 00:22:53.637 --> 00:22:59.262 to cross the river and to achieve the United States, 353 00:23:00.496 --> 00:23:05.215 leaves certain traces and certain heritage on the way of talking. 354 00:23:05.446 --> 00:23:06.167 on the music, 355 00:23:06.567 --> 00:23:07.088 on the food, 356 00:23:07.549 --> 00:23:10.631 that was resonating with me quite strongly. 357 00:23:12.713 --> 00:23:19.979 Even if this place were thousands of kilometers away of my own home country or my own city. 358 00:23:20.744 --> 00:23:24.924 And that's why I start to photograph at that place. 359 00:23:25.002 --> 00:23:25.784 Then of course, 360 00:23:25.846 --> 00:23:34.471 I realized that this landscape in transition were quite interesting also in terms of this waiting that it was already present in dialect. 361 00:23:35.122 --> 00:23:39.368 And I decided to separate or to categorize three moments, 362 00:23:39.426 --> 00:23:41.149 three chapters in the project. 363 00:23:41.150 --> 00:23:42.309 The first chapter, 364 00:23:42.751 --> 00:23:43.934 it's called Cierres, 365 00:23:44.614 --> 00:23:53.645 that for me were questions about the interior spaces of the houses of the migrants. 366 00:23:53.786 --> 00:23:55.161 And not only the migrants, 367 00:23:55.442 --> 00:23:56.598 also the, 368 00:23:57.505 --> 00:23:57.645 well, 369 00:23:57.661 --> 00:24:02.614 the general landscape in the houses before the borderline. 370 00:24:02.942 --> 00:24:04.489 I was photographing mainly 371 00:24:05.318 --> 00:24:20.716 friends and then friends of friends or people that I met through my friends because it was much easier to you know be there and to access and to just enjoy the situation and the second chapter it's called bodies that 372 00:24:20.856 --> 00:24:32.809 are the portraits of these friends of mine or people that I met through my friends during the last three four years and then the last chapter is called uh bridges 373 00:24:33.354 --> 00:24:46.541 Brecha in Spanish has two meanings and it's quite interesting because the first meaning we use it for categorize the unofficial paths that take you to the borderline in this case to the 374 00:24:47.197 --> 00:24:54.673 Bravo River and the second meaning it's we use it for describe a wound in the body so that 375 00:24:55.350 --> 00:25:08.837 double meaning made quite powerful this last chapter because it was also the opportunity to register and to show the actual landscape before the borderline into the river. 376 00:25:29.058 --> 00:25:31.241 For the book it's interesting also to mention that 377 00:25:32.202 --> 00:25:48.284 I ask normally with in dialect and at least in dialect and bravo I ask different friends of mine to write something not about the project but something that could resonate with the project. 378 00:25:48.940 --> 00:25:58.346 So in the case of dialect I invite six different people two of them participants of the project who were on the images on the photographic. 379 00:25:58.578 --> 00:26:04.705 series and then a friend who is a philosopher, 380 00:26:05.283 --> 00:26:06.044 then a lawyer, 381 00:26:06.650 --> 00:26:09.392 then a choreologist, 382 00:26:09.666 --> 00:26:14.728 that it's a person who is in charge to translate the movement to paper. 383 00:26:15.650 --> 00:26:19.666 So you know these different voices can, 384 00:26:20.603 --> 00:26:21.806 as I said at the beginning, 385 00:26:22.056 --> 00:26:27.572 open the spectrum of the possibilities of the project and not only let's say 386 00:26:28.226 --> 00:26:29.868 stay with the image making, 387 00:26:29.908 --> 00:26:31.770 but also because if it's a book, 388 00:26:31.790 --> 00:26:32.268 for example, 389 00:26:32.292 --> 00:26:35.674 when I'm translating that to an exhibition, 390 00:26:36.057 --> 00:26:38.237 it's not always the case that I use all the material. 391 00:26:38.815 --> 00:26:40.354 Sometimes I just use the images. 392 00:26:40.721 --> 00:26:47.542 So it's depending on the specific case and on the specific space that I'm working on. 393 00:26:47.979 --> 00:26:48.526 For the book, 394 00:26:48.932 --> 00:26:49.495 as a space, 395 00:26:49.510 --> 00:26:50.573 as a device, 396 00:26:51.073 --> 00:26:57.057 I'm trying to open the spectrum as much as I can and also bringing 397 00:26:58.170 --> 00:27:01.211 some frames from the video pieces and some, 398 00:27:01.670 --> 00:27:02.092 let's say, 399 00:27:02.830 --> 00:27:07.088 different conceptual approaches to the same topic. 400 00:27:23.588 --> 00:27:23.713 When 401 00:27:23.760 --> 00:27:24.729 I start a project, 402 00:27:24.979 --> 00:27:27.229 it always starts... 403 00:27:27.362 --> 00:27:28.102 quite chaotic. 404 00:27:28.762 --> 00:27:37.908 I just photograph wherever I have the ear and the question to photograph and then afterwards, 405 00:27:38.064 --> 00:27:44.947 and that's why for me it's important to build the projects in a long-term basis because it means that 406 00:27:45.619 --> 00:27:52.728 I can actually reflect on what I'm doing through the passing of the years. 407 00:27:53.603 --> 00:27:54.463 nor sometimes 408 00:27:55.250 --> 00:27:59.216 It's complicated because of course you need to make a living and you need to, 409 00:27:59.915 --> 00:28:00.075 well, 410 00:28:00.357 --> 00:28:03.739 put your energy into the project. 411 00:28:03.857 --> 00:28:06.661 And of course it's not profitable in any sense, 412 00:28:07.325 --> 00:28:08.364 economically speaking. 413 00:28:09.224 --> 00:28:10.544 But nevertheless, 414 00:28:10.966 --> 00:28:23.864 I'm trying to keep that in all my projects because this timeline gives me the opportunity to rethink and to see afterwards. 415 00:28:24.382 --> 00:28:25.644 what I'm actually doing. 416 00:28:26.305 --> 00:28:29.169 I'm not capable to photograph and 417 00:28:30.230 --> 00:28:32.272 verbally reflecting at the same time. 418 00:28:32.632 --> 00:28:36.194 I'm thinking visually and then I'm thinking verbally. 419 00:28:45.866 --> 00:28:46.092 This 420 00:28:46.483 --> 00:28:56.155 Magdalena project was probably first stage on my photographic career where I was starting to questioning about, 421 00:28:56.842 --> 00:28:56.999 well, 422 00:28:57.202 --> 00:28:58.014 actually the... 423 00:28:58.590 --> 00:28:59.591 the notion of the body. 424 00:28:59.692 --> 00:29:00.291 In this case, 425 00:29:00.713 --> 00:29:11.463 the body was much more present and at the same time absent because to describe a little bit about the project itself, 426 00:29:11.580 --> 00:29:11.744 it's 427 00:29:12.487 --> 00:29:13.401 Magdalena River, 428 00:29:13.447 --> 00:29:16.088 it's probably the most important river in Colombia. 429 00:29:16.089 --> 00:29:19.416 It crosses the entire country from the mountains to the 430 00:29:20.526 --> 00:29:25.838 Caribbean Sea and do a geographical phenomenon when you have 431 00:29:27.014 --> 00:29:29.097 two different levels on the river, 432 00:29:29.197 --> 00:29:31.738 and it happens in all the rivers of the world. 433 00:29:32.980 --> 00:29:41.449 The river creates certain whirlpools that emerge all the things that the river has inside, 434 00:29:42.011 --> 00:29:42.628 on the water. 435 00:29:43.675 --> 00:29:44.285 Of course, 436 00:29:45.019 --> 00:29:45.566 normally, 437 00:29:46.410 --> 00:29:52.472 these objects that emerge from the river are just simple objects, 438 00:29:52.722 --> 00:29:53.394 or woods, 439 00:29:53.675 --> 00:29:54.800 or trash, 440 00:29:54.941 --> 00:29:56.316 or whatever the river. 441 00:29:56.658 --> 00:29:59.060 this big body carries on. 442 00:30:00.081 --> 00:30:01.824 But in the case of the Magdalena River, 443 00:30:01.863 --> 00:30:05.488 specifically in a certain area that is called Magdalena Medio, 444 00:30:05.847 --> 00:30:10.972 the river expulses the parts of yeah, 445 00:30:11.113 --> 00:30:19.933 parts of the body that has been they tried to disappear these bodies on the action of throwing the bodies into the river. 446 00:30:20.558 --> 00:30:22.449 So that means that this sign, 447 00:30:22.495 --> 00:30:24.667 this symbol and this 448 00:30:25.010 --> 00:30:30.938 body that emerged from the Whirlpools were the main question for me on that moment. 449 00:30:31.516 --> 00:30:35.297 It was 2014, 450 00:30:35.321 --> 00:30:41.305 2015 until 2020 that I was carrying out this research, 451 00:30:41.992 --> 00:30:43.446 not only visually but also, 452 00:30:44.492 --> 00:30:44.836 let's say, 453 00:30:45.117 --> 00:30:47.430 conceptually speaking and socially speaking too. 454 00:30:48.086 --> 00:30:50.508 So that was the main context of the project, 455 00:30:50.555 --> 00:30:52.274 this signed up 456 00:30:52.982 --> 00:31:04.376 appears and emerged from a river that talks about a political and a social situation and condition on Colombian society. 457 00:31:17.212 --> 00:31:20.868 This project that is called A Body That Speaks As A Bird, 458 00:31:22.196 --> 00:31:22.587 it's a... 459 00:31:22.714 --> 00:31:28.779 project that I recently started on a question of transition. 460 00:31:29.221 --> 00:31:30.420 I'm wondering, 461 00:31:30.483 --> 00:31:31.541 I'm also questioning, 462 00:31:32.541 --> 00:31:40.611 how was the transition between the rural sides of Colombia into the cities between the 463 00:31:41.236 --> 00:31:42.252 40s and the 80s? 464 00:31:44.143 --> 00:31:51.408 There was a huge migrant flow between the rural sides and the urban sides in Colombia in in this case. 465 00:31:51.794 --> 00:31:56.499 between the rural side and Bogota as the capital of the country. 466 00:31:57.159 --> 00:31:59.342 And my family was part of that transition. 467 00:31:59.921 --> 00:32:00.046 So 468 00:32:00.405 --> 00:32:05.171 I've been investigating and researching how this transition was produced, 469 00:32:05.608 --> 00:32:19.835 especially through certain manuals and books that categorize bodies and teaches how they should behave in society and how they behave in the cities. 470 00:32:20.394 --> 00:32:24.299 to not resemble someone who came from the rural side of the country. 471 00:32:25.018 --> 00:32:25.838 And my family, 472 00:32:26.361 --> 00:32:28.764 especially my mom and my uncles, 473 00:32:29.482 --> 00:32:34.850 learned that manual in order to behave in a good way in the city. 474 00:32:34.990 --> 00:32:36.107 So once again, 475 00:32:36.646 --> 00:32:38.178 it's a law, 476 00:32:38.428 --> 00:32:39.318 in this case a manual, 477 00:32:39.365 --> 00:32:42.193 that tries to categorize and define a body, 478 00:32:42.662 --> 00:32:44.818 in this case my family in Colombia. 479 00:32:52.302 --> 00:32:53.923 I've been working in different pieces, 480 00:32:54.024 --> 00:32:56.146 not only photographically speaking, 481 00:32:56.287 --> 00:33:12.845 but also with some writing exercise on how you should write and how you should address other people in the city on juxtaposition with how you actually refer to each other on the countryside, 482 00:33:12.846 --> 00:33:14.501 on the rural side of the country. 483 00:33:15.111 --> 00:33:15.220 So 484 00:33:15.830 --> 00:33:17.173 I'm still questioning, 485 00:33:17.423 --> 00:33:18.173 visually speaking, 486 00:33:18.189 --> 00:33:19.876 how to show that because 487 00:33:20.026 --> 00:33:21.038 as I said at the beginning, 488 00:33:21.078 --> 00:33:21.927 I don't want to 489 00:33:22.855 --> 00:33:42.795 illustrate this concept how the conceptual field is this transition of this body but then the images should be autonomous of that let's say conceptual field i'm trying 490 00:33:42.796 --> 00:33:50.936 to spend more time in colombia also my mom is getting older so i need to be there quite frequently i'm trying to go 491 00:33:51.891 --> 00:34:08.288 twice a year at least and for a few weeks in order to also to develop the project that's why actually i started the project the first instinct was okay i need to be in colombia because you know i i need to get along with my family i 492 00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:20.242 want to you know reconnect with that part of my identity so the let's say the the way of building that once again was through this project 493 00:34:20.863 --> 00:34:22.946 And that's why I'm working on that right now. 494 00:34:23.526 --> 00:34:24.567 Especially this time, 495 00:34:24.985 --> 00:34:26.208 I'm working with people that 496 00:34:27.048 --> 00:34:28.372 I know from a long time. 497 00:34:28.852 --> 00:34:30.071 So sometimes it's easier, 498 00:34:30.149 --> 00:34:32.173 sometimes it's more complicated. 499 00:34:32.735 --> 00:34:35.680 And I'm working with a large former camera. 500 00:34:35.798 --> 00:34:37.524 So that means silence, 501 00:34:37.540 --> 00:34:39.587 that means kind of a ritual. 502 00:34:40.149 --> 00:34:47.571 I really like this medium for this project because it allows me also to spend time on location, 503 00:34:48.196 --> 00:34:48.712 on set, 504 00:34:49.243 --> 00:34:49.477 too. 505 00:34:50.595 --> 00:34:56.082 figure out how to achieve and how to build the image that I'm looking for. 506 00:35:00.965 --> 00:35:01.965 If you think about it, 507 00:35:02.465 --> 00:35:03.410 photography has, 508 00:35:03.988 --> 00:35:04.410 let's say, 509 00:35:04.910 --> 00:35:05.512 generally speaking, 510 00:35:05.527 --> 00:35:06.293 three conditions. 511 00:35:06.816 --> 00:35:11.769 First condition is the image as a mirror of reality. 512 00:35:12.191 --> 00:35:13.144 That's something that you have. 513 00:35:13.191 --> 00:35:13.785 It's an index, 514 00:35:14.051 --> 00:35:14.285 right? 515 00:35:14.363 --> 00:35:19.066 It's a handprint that you have on the photographic surface. 516 00:35:19.457 --> 00:35:19.722 Then 517 00:35:20.235 --> 00:35:27.483 You have a second condition that it's a translation of that reality that of course is conditioned by the framing, 518 00:35:27.963 --> 00:35:29.362 the photographic surface, 519 00:35:29.643 --> 00:35:30.447 if it's colored, 520 00:35:30.448 --> 00:35:31.346 if it's black and white, 521 00:35:31.666 --> 00:35:35.971 which type of medium you use and which type of technology you use. 522 00:35:36.338 --> 00:35:42.916 And then a third moment that it's quite interesting as well that photography produces reality. 523 00:35:43.322 --> 00:35:48.447 It's an autonomous entity that It produces another type of reality that it's completely. 524 00:35:48.867 --> 00:35:51.050 different from the reality that we see. 525 00:35:51.509 --> 00:35:55.114 And this third moment interests me a lot, 526 00:35:55.493 --> 00:35:57.934 especially in this last project, 527 00:35:57.997 --> 00:36:02.177 because it would allow me to make or to build, 528 00:36:03.059 --> 00:36:03.583 hopefully, 529 00:36:04.950 --> 00:36:08.731 an autonomous reality of the actual reality that I'm seeing. 530 00:36:16.607 --> 00:36:27.299 I'm actually right now start to work in a video piece that I'm trying to develop here in Paris on a school of 531 00:36:27.815 --> 00:36:29.299 French as a second language, 532 00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:31.339 as myself included, 533 00:36:32.182 --> 00:36:35.643 also to put in that once again relation, 534 00:36:36.346 --> 00:36:41.315 tension relation within the body and the language and how in this case 535 00:36:41.690 --> 00:36:44.159 French language categorize 536 00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:56.488 certain realities and how you have to learn this way of speaking to adapt and to relate to society and to relate to the actual reality that you live here. 537 00:36:56.809 --> 00:36:59.731 So this is something that I'm just start to work in, 538 00:37:00.293 --> 00:37:00.598 but 539 00:37:01.176 --> 00:37:05.785 I really want to build something here since I'm based here.