WEBVTT

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Hi Siri,

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can you solve this riddle?

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Discover the happiest place on earth,

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which should open happiness.

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Because you're worth it.

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Think different and just do it.

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Hum,

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I'm not sure I can solve it.

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I need a hint.

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Gotcha!

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I have combined five of the most popular slogans from some of the world's most famous brands to see whether you would recognize them.

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Really?

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I'll give it another go.

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And put our audience to the test too.

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I'll repeat them and you'll have to guess the brand names.

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Ready?

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Okay,

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go for it.

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Discover the happiest place on earth,

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which should open happiness.

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Because you're worth it.

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Think different and just do it.

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Time's up.

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So,

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did you get them?

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Duh,

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of course.

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You think I live in a cave.

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That's Disneyland.

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Coca-Cola.

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L'Oreal,

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Apple and Nike.

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Spot on.

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And data from connected smartphones suggests that 98.7%

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of listeners got the right answers too.

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So,

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what's the point of all of this?

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Siri,

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this clearly shows that advertising has left its mark on our collective memories.

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Or maybe we'll just have excellent recall.

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Well,

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isn't this just plain brainwashing by advertising?

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Hmm,

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that's one way to look at it.

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These slogans are engineered.

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to stick in our brains like a catchy pop song.

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Here's the thing.

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Advertising doesn't just sell products.

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It sells ideas,

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emotions,

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and even identities through cleverly crafted words and storytelling.

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And I guess that's exactly what we're diving into today.

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As insightful as always,

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Siri.

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But first,

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a quick commercial break.

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Let's take a moment to hear from our advertisers.

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Special offer alert.

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Love what you're hearing?

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Well,

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you're in luck.

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Listen to an episode of 2050 Investors and get two more.

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Two more.

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Absolutely free.

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Binge responsibly.

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Welcome to 2050 Investors,

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the podcast that deciphers economic and market megatrends to meet tomorrow's challenges.

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I'm Coco Agbobla,

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a head of economics,

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cross-asset and quant research at Société Générale.

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In this episode of 2050 Investors,

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we explore the world of advertising,

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examining how it has influenced our choices,

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or even free will,

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shaped cultural identities,

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and contributed to overconsumption and climate change.

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We'll look at its role in driving economic growth and shaping corporate brand identities.

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We also ask,

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has advertising trapped us into an endless cycle of consumption?

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And if so,

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can it be transformed into a force for good?

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Later in this episode,

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we'll hear from Thomas Kolster,

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a marketing and sustainability expert and author of Goodvertising.

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Thomas will share unique insights from his marketing experience,

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and he will discuss the future of advertising and how one can reconcile advertising for good with a growth-centered economic system.

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Let's start our investigation.

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So,

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as is tradition,

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let's start with some basics.

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The origins of advertising.

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Exactly.

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The word advertising comes from the Latin word advertere,

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meaning to turn towards.

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I found some interesting facts online on Wikipedia.

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Unsurprisingly,

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advertising is the practice and techniques employed to bring attention to a product or service.

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But also,

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Commercial advertisements often aim to increase consumption of their product or services through branding,

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which associates a product name or image with certain qualities in the minds of consumers.

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So,

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I was right about the brainwashing angle then.

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Originally,

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it was about capturing attention.

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Think of town criers in medieval Europe shouting about fresh bread in the marketplace.

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But the origins are even older than that.

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So,

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the art of turning heads was not invented in Europe?

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Not even close.

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It began in many places.

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Cave or rock paintings are among the oldest form of commercial advertisements,

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still seen today in parts of Asia,

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Africa and South America.

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The tradition of wall painting can be traced back to Indian rock art from as early as 4000 BC.

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Egyptians

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Use papers for sales messages and wall posters.

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Commercial messages have been discovered in the ruins of Pompeii and ancient Arabia,

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in ancient Greece and ancient Rome,

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Lust and fine advertising on papers was common.

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In ancient China,

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the earliest known advertising was oral.

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As recorded in the classic of poetry of bamboo flutes played to self-confectionery,

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advertisement often takes the form of calligraphic signboards and inked papers.

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A simpler time.

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No pop-ups.

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No influencers.

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Just a guy shouting,

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fresh fish.

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Best price.

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True.

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Then came print ads in the

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17th century,

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followed by billboards,

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radio jingles,

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TV commercials,

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and eventually digital marketing.

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Today,

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companies spend billions to ensure their brands are unforgettable.

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We now have million-dollar Super Bowl commercials.

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Yes,

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along with AI-generated ads and social media influencers convincing you that buying everything and anything will lead to happiness.

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Beyond the noise,

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brightly colored billboards.

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catchy sound effects,

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advertising influences us at a subconscious level.

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This is a good transition to our next question.

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Are we truly free when we buy things or have we been pre-programmed since childhood?

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I think I know the answer to that.

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Just look at the state of the planet and climate change.

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Fair point.

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But first,

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let's try this thought experiment.

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Imagine walking into a supermarket.

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You're just here for three things.

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You think you're in control,

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making rational choices.

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But are you?

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Spoiler alert.

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Your brain is running on autopilot,

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following scripts installed by decades of advertising.

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Okay,

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let's put this point to the test.

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First,

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you grab a basket and head to the cereal aisle.

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Your brain says,

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I want something healthy.

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But what do you reach for?

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You scan the shelves,

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mostly.

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Porridge?

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Too boring.

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And then,

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bam!

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Your hand grabs a box of Kellogg's Choco Krispies or Wittebix.

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Why?

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Because deep in your brain,

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there's a childhood ad.

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Have you had your Wittebix?

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Maybe you remember your kids'

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preferences because they love Paw Patrol or Peppa Pig.

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Next up,

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drinks.

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You're thirsty.

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Water?

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Sure.

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But then your eyes land on a bright orange bottle of Orangina.

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And suddenly,

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a voice whispers.

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Orangina.

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Shake it to wake it.

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Or maybe it's Coca-Cola.

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And you're not just buying a drink.

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You're buying a memory.

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A feeling.

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That first sip isn't just refreshment.

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It's a warm July afternoon by the ocean.

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The laughter of friends.

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The clink of ice in a glass.

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It's a glow of Christmas light.

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The magic of Santa's promise.

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It's the roar.

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The stadium.

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The taste of victory.

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That red can,

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it's not just a soda.

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It's comfort.

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It's nostalgia.

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And before you even realize it,

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it's already in your hand.

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Koku,

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calm down.

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You sound just like Don Draper in Mad Men.

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Well,

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this should not come as a surprise,

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Siri,

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because Coca-Cola spends over $4 billion a year on average just to remind you that happiness comes in a red can.

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Reports from Statista.com

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even showed a marketing budget going from $3.5 billion to over $5 billion over the past 10 years.

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Fascinating.

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What next?

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Apparel.

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Sneakers,

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maybe.

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You directly head to the Nike corner,

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of course.

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Because somewhere in your brain,

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you associate their logo with Michael Jordan,

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Serena Williams,

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and that urge to just do it.

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I think it's time to leave before you end up emptying your bank account.

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That's very thoughtful,

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Siri.

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Thank you.

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So,

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are humans like trained robots pretending to have free will?

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This is a complex philosophical question,

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Siri.

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But talking about free will,

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I came across an intriguing article from the Harvard Business Review entitled Hidden Minds.

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It discussed a study concluding that 95%

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of all cognition,

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the thinking that drives our decisions and behaviors,

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occurs unconsciously,

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including consumer decisions.

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Ads don't just inform,

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they tap into humans'

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biological and genetic predispositions.

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Ever wonder why McDonald's uses the red and yellow color?

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No,

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but I'm sure you're gonna tell me.

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An article from Crowdspring.com discusses the history,

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meaning,

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and evolution of McDonald's.

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logo highlighting color psychology.

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The use of red and yellow in the logo is strategic.

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Red is stimulating and associated with appetite and energy,

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while yellow is associated with happiness and friendliness.

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This combination is visually appealing and psychologically effective in attracting consumers.

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That makes sense.

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Color,

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sound and smell are important stimuli that influence the human brain.

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Exactly.

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Why do perfume ads use sensual imagery?

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Well,

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because scent is linked to memory and desire.

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I suppose social media has taken it to another level.

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Have you ever searched for something online and then seen ads for it everywhere?

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That's AI-driven advertising,

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tracking,

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predicting,

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and influencing your next move.

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Now,

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let's see how advertising has evolved beyond selling things to selling emotions and identities.

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Take Nike's Dream Crazy campaign about women in sports.

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It wasn't about shoes,

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it was about empowerment.

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Another famous example is Apple's Dream Crazy campaign.

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Think Different campaign.

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It was about rebellion,

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creativity,

281
00:11:01.659 --> 00:11:03.960
misfits thinking outside the box.

282
00:11:04.640 --> 00:11:07.642
And then there's Coca-Cola's Open Happiness campaign,

283
00:11:08.083 --> 00:11:12.405
because nothing says happiness like carbonated sugar water in a plastic bottle.

284
00:11:13.726 --> 00:11:14.126
Touche!

285
00:11:15.047 --> 00:11:16.528
That's the power of branding.

286
00:11:16.928 --> 00:11:18.129
You're not just buying a drink,

287
00:11:18.469 --> 00:11:18.989
a phone,

288
00:11:19.209 --> 00:11:19.970
or sneakers,

289
00:11:20.190 --> 00:11:21.210
you're buying a story,

290
00:11:21.471 --> 00:11:22.051
a feeling,

291
00:11:22.171 --> 00:11:22.851
a belonging.

292
00:11:23.452 --> 00:11:23.572
So,

293
00:11:23.912 --> 00:11:27.075
If advertising can convince you to buy overpriced sneakers,

294
00:11:27.415 --> 00:11:30.037
can it also convince you to make sustainable choices?

295
00:11:30.718 --> 00:11:31.979
That's the big question.

296
00:11:32.539 --> 00:11:34.501
Advertising has driven overconsumption,

297
00:11:34.741 --> 00:11:36.903
a key driver of global GDP growth.

298
00:11:37.463 --> 00:11:38.084
This demand,

299
00:11:38.144 --> 00:11:38.584
in turn,

300
00:11:39.084 --> 00:11:41.386
required substantial fossil fuel use,

301
00:11:41.466 --> 00:11:45.770
contributing to rising greenhouse gas emissions and impacting climate change.

302
00:11:46.310 --> 00:11:49.893
These themes have been explored in many of our previous episodes,

303
00:11:49.973 --> 00:11:53.176
such as carbon-free calories and fashionomics.

304
00:11:54.596 --> 00:11:55.477
Special offer alert.

305
00:11:55.757 --> 00:11:56.558
Love what you're hearing?

306
00:11:56.718 --> 00:11:57.018
Well,

307
00:11:57.198 --> 00:11:57.799
you're in luck.

308
00:11:57.999 --> 00:12:01.882
Listen to an episode of 2050 Investors and get two more.

309
00:12:02.023 --> 00:12:02.843
Two more.

310
00:12:03.003 --> 00:12:03.844
Absolutely free.

311
00:12:04.545 --> 00:12:05.285
Binge responsibly.

312
00:12:06.286 --> 00:12:06.927
In principle,

313
00:12:07.307 --> 00:12:09.649
advertising could also be part of the solution.

314
00:12:10.350 --> 00:12:14.333
Consider these statistics from reports by the World Health Organization.

315
00:12:15.474 --> 00:12:15.654
1.

316
00:12:17.056 --> 00:12:21.119
Anti-smoking ads have reduced smoking rates by roughly 30 to 40 percent.

317
00:12:21.860 --> 00:12:22.040
2.

318
00:12:23.848 --> 00:12:27.110
Drunk driving campaigns have saved thousands of lives.

319
00:12:27.970 --> 00:12:28.391
And three,

320
00:12:29.871 --> 00:12:34.094
recycling awareness ads have increased participation globally.

321
00:12:34.674 --> 00:12:34.794
So,

322
00:12:35.154 --> 00:12:36.915
instead of pushing more consumption,

323
00:12:37.196 --> 00:12:38.697
we could push better consumption?

324
00:12:39.197 --> 00:12:39.657
Exactly.

325
00:12:40.177 --> 00:12:45.280
Imagine fast fashion brands advertising quality over quantity.

326
00:12:46.161 --> 00:12:50.623
Car companies spending more ad dollars on electric vehicles than gas guzzlers.

327
00:12:51.124 --> 00:12:51.724
Food brands.

328
00:12:51.904 --> 00:12:53.565
promoting plant-based diets.

329
00:12:54.426 --> 00:12:55.206
Sounds great.

330
00:12:55.746 --> 00:12:57.647
But are corporations willing to do that?

331
00:12:59.529 --> 00:13:01.190
Here's the eye-opening figures.

332
00:13:01.570 --> 00:13:03.051
According to Statista.com,

333
00:13:03.471 --> 00:13:07.153
companies spend $700 billion a year on advertising.

334
00:13:07.733 --> 00:13:09.575
The top spenders are Amazon,

335
00:13:09.815 --> 00:13:10.635
Procter & Gamble,

336
00:13:10.895 --> 00:13:11.456
and Google.

337
00:13:13.417 --> 00:13:13.637
In the

338
00:13:14.437 --> 00:13:17.479
1970s, people were exposed to about 500 ads per day.

339
00:13:18.280 --> 00:13:18.580
Today,

340
00:13:19.048 --> 00:13:20.189
people see roughly

341
00:13:20.529 --> 00:13:23.291
5,000 to 10,000 ads per day.

342
00:13:24.031 --> 00:13:25.392
10,000!

343
00:13:25.392 --> 00:13:25.552
I mean,

344
00:13:25.633 --> 00:13:26.493
this is huge.

345
00:13:27.674 --> 00:13:31.777
There are 5.3 trillion display ads shown online every year.

346
00:13:32.957 --> 00:13:36.980
According to studies by the University of South Carolina in 2023,

347
00:13:37.641 --> 00:13:38.241
on average,

348
00:13:38.541 --> 00:13:40.423
children see 20,000

349
00:13:40.803 --> 00:13:42.544
30-seconds commercials each year.

350
00:13:43.064 --> 00:13:47.027
Adults see an average of 2 million of those on a yearly basis.

351
00:13:47.747 --> 00:13:48.348
And finally...

352
00:13:48.628 --> 00:13:53.390
social media ad revenues generates over $200 billion annually.

353
00:13:54.030 --> 00:13:54.971
Let that sink in.

354
00:13:57.852 --> 00:14:00.193
You should become a social media influencer.

355
00:14:00.893 --> 00:14:01.373
You bet.

356
00:14:01.754 --> 00:14:04.615
But can you imagine a world without ads?

357
00:14:04.935 --> 00:14:05.675
No billboards,

358
00:14:05.875 --> 00:14:06.516
no pop-ups,

359
00:14:06.696 --> 00:14:09.257
no influencers selling you protein powder.

360
00:14:09.777 --> 00:14:09.897
So,

361
00:14:10.397 --> 00:14:11.318
peace and quiet?

362
00:14:12.138 --> 00:14:12.378
Yes,

363
00:14:12.758 --> 00:14:14.779
but also no free YouTube,

364
00:14:15.059 --> 00:14:15.919
no free news,

365
00:14:16.140 --> 00:14:16.960
no free apps.

366
00:14:17.180 --> 00:14:18.441
no free Google search.

367
00:14:18.921 --> 00:14:19.182
Right.

368
00:14:19.462 --> 00:14:20.143
Without ads,

369
00:14:20.423 --> 00:14:22.024
many industries would collapse.

370
00:14:22.344 --> 00:14:25.287
So maybe the future isn't ad-free,

371
00:14:25.787 --> 00:14:26.908
but ad-conscious,

372
00:14:27.289 --> 00:14:30.071
where marketing helps people make better choices,

373
00:14:30.411 --> 00:14:32.233
not just buy more things.

374
00:14:34.695 --> 00:14:37.697
What will advertising look like in 2050?

375
00:14:37.717 --> 00:14:38.178
AI-driven,

376
00:14:38.298 --> 00:14:39.639
hyper-personalized,

377
00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:40.720
but also ethical?

378
00:14:41.400 --> 00:14:43.462
Think about the movie Minority Report,

379
00:14:43.943 --> 00:14:45.464
where ads are everywhere.

380
00:14:46.160 --> 00:14:49.223
One can imagine ads that assist rather than manipulate.

381
00:14:49.704 --> 00:14:49.824
So,

382
00:14:50.184 --> 00:14:51.706
instead of just do it,

383
00:14:52.086 --> 00:14:53.788
it'll be just think about it.

384
00:14:55.149 --> 00:14:55.670
I love it.

385
00:14:56.110 --> 00:14:56.230
So,

386
00:14:56.691 --> 00:15:00.054
if advertising has historically driven overconsumption,

387
00:15:00.518 --> 00:15:05.140
It could also serve as a powerful tool for promoting more sustainable choices.

388
00:15:05.700 --> 00:15:09.642
But is this really feasible considering the strong profit incentives?

389
00:15:10.222 --> 00:15:11.362
Is that a trick question?

390
00:15:11.843 --> 00:15:13.183
I tend to be a pessimist,

391
00:15:13.483 --> 00:15:16.725
as they say a pessimist is just an optimist with experience.

392
00:15:17.105 --> 00:15:17.405
Ouch,

393
00:15:17.965 --> 00:15:18.806
that's a bit harsh,

394
00:15:18.866 --> 00:15:19.106
Siri.

395
00:15:19.486 --> 00:15:19.766
Listen,

396
00:15:22.307 --> 00:15:23.027
I'm an optimist,

397
00:15:23.587 --> 00:15:27.869
which is why our guest today is someone who truly understands this topic.

398
00:15:28.670 --> 00:15:29.610
Thomas Colster.

399
00:15:29.850 --> 00:15:32.812
is an expert in marketing and sustainable development.

400
00:15:33.152 --> 00:15:37.115
And he has developed the concept of goodvertising in one of his books.

401
00:15:39.356 --> 00:15:39.536
Hello,

402
00:15:39.596 --> 00:15:39.977
Thomas.

403
00:15:40.197 --> 00:15:41.798
Thank you so much for joining the show.

404
00:15:42.098 --> 00:15:43.439
Such a pleasure being here.

405
00:15:43.499 --> 00:15:43.999
Good to see you,

406
00:15:44.019 --> 00:15:44.240
Coco.

407
00:15:44.540 --> 00:15:50.224
So could we start with you sharing how your career in the world of advertising began?

408
00:15:50.924 --> 00:15:51.204
Wow,

409
00:15:51.224 --> 00:15:51.484
you know,

410
00:15:51.825 --> 00:15:53.846
I was probably one of those odd folks that

411
00:15:54.066 --> 00:15:56.167
didn't really dream about career in advertising.

412
00:15:56.487 --> 00:15:58.128
I loved writing,

413
00:15:58.248 --> 00:15:59.329
I loved creativity,

414
00:15:59.669 --> 00:16:02.771
and I just sort of happened to end up in the industry.

415
00:16:03.131 --> 00:16:04.852
And to be honest,

416
00:16:05.132 --> 00:16:08.394
it was probably the paycheck that pulled me in by the end of the day.

417
00:16:09.514 --> 00:16:12.396
So rather a rich copywriter than a poor author,

418
00:16:12.456 --> 00:16:12.656
right?

419
00:16:13.136 --> 00:16:13.377
Yes,

420
00:16:13.417 --> 00:16:15.578
it's an interesting incentive.

421
00:16:15.698 --> 00:16:18.880
And this is actually a good transition to the second question,

422
00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:23.262
because advertising has historically been about selling more.

423
00:16:24.238 --> 00:16:27.962
And you've argued that it can be used for good.

424
00:16:28.822 --> 00:16:35.528
So how do you shift from a consumption-driven marketing to a purpose-driven marketing without hurting profits?

425
00:16:35.748 --> 00:16:36.909
In other words,

426
00:16:37.049 --> 00:16:41.773
it's this sort of paradox between value and values.

427
00:16:42.534 --> 00:16:47.158
I personally had a bit of an awakening around the Climate Summit and turned my career around.

428
00:16:47.178 --> 00:16:47.818
And actually,

429
00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:48.659
you know,

430
00:16:49.940 --> 00:16:52.302
what I recognized was that this is about brand.

431
00:16:52.522 --> 00:16:55.643
I think a lot of us forget the power of the brand.

432
00:16:55.683 --> 00:16:55.923
That's,

433
00:16:56.624 --> 00:16:56.864
you know,

434
00:16:56.884 --> 00:17:00.705
the intrinsic most value of a company is actually tied to the brand.

435
00:17:00.745 --> 00:17:03.747
We've seen that with Volkswagen and Dieselgate.

436
00:17:05.808 --> 00:17:08.269
And so in many respects here,

437
00:17:08.329 --> 00:17:15.071
women are much smarter than us men because they actually realize that we are not that rational when we take decisions.

438
00:17:15.732 --> 00:17:18.573
So when we look at brands that are value driven,

439
00:17:18.833 --> 00:17:21.314
it's because we like those brands.

440
00:17:21.534 --> 00:17:27.297
we look at those values and we feel that they resonate with our worldview.

441
00:17:27.657 --> 00:17:29.518
And so when you ask people,

442
00:17:29.558 --> 00:17:30.518
do you like a Nike?

443
00:17:30.978 --> 00:17:31.639
Do you like

444
00:17:32.059 --> 00:17:38.462
Adidas? So not understanding the built-in way that brands work.

445
00:17:38.562 --> 00:17:39.882
So values are,

446
00:17:39.882 --> 00:17:40.282
in fact,

447
00:17:40.302 --> 00:17:46.105
what really fundamentally drives value and drives the value of a brand.

448
00:17:46.125 --> 00:17:48.126
That's at least my simple belief.

449
00:17:49.154 --> 00:17:57.276
So that's actually a very important point because many brands are jumping on the sustainability bandwagon.

450
00:17:58.817 --> 00:18:02.838
And that's clearly a big trend and there's a lot of pressure by shareholders,

451
00:18:02.898 --> 00:18:03.018
etc.

452
00:18:03.278 --> 00:18:04.218
And even consumer,

453
00:18:04.378 --> 00:18:05.058
as you mentioned.

454
00:18:06.019 --> 00:18:09.960
So how do you separate genuine good advertising,

455
00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:11.940
which is the title of your book,

456
00:18:12.340 --> 00:18:13.241
from greenwashing?

457
00:18:13.601 --> 00:18:13.901
You know,

458
00:18:14.581 --> 00:18:14.821
for me,

459
00:18:14.841 --> 00:18:17.522
it was an evolution of my own thinking as well.

460
00:18:17.602 --> 00:18:18.282
And I...

461
00:18:19.206 --> 00:18:19.926
In 2020,

462
00:18:20.006 --> 00:18:21.767
I came out with a new book called The Hero Trap,

463
00:18:21.827 --> 00:18:23.087
where I asked myself the question,

464
00:18:23.107 --> 00:18:29.889
with so many brands around pitching us to be world-saving heroes in our lives,

465
00:18:31.169 --> 00:18:33.210
what brand have in fact created change in my life?

466
00:18:33.210 --> 00:18:34.810
And it's also a question to the listeners,

467
00:18:34.970 --> 00:18:37.371
what brand have in fact created positive change in your life?

468
00:18:37.851 --> 00:18:38.831
That list was very,

469
00:18:38.931 --> 00:18:41.432
very short in my life.

470
00:18:42.032 --> 00:18:42.972
So fundamentally,

471
00:18:43.132 --> 00:18:48.334
I believe that the real authentic brands are those that enable change

472
00:18:49.054 --> 00:18:49.674
in our lives,

473
00:18:49.735 --> 00:18:50.515
tangible change,

474
00:18:50.715 --> 00:18:52.096
maybe make us more healthy.

475
00:18:52.776 --> 00:18:56.258
Maybe they teach us financial literacy.

476
00:18:56.859 --> 00:19:00.661
Maybe they actually stop preaching about how green they are,

477
00:19:01.021 --> 00:19:03.002
but help me live a greener life.

478
00:19:03.022 --> 00:19:09.726
So this is really the pinnacle for me of what is authentic and also where you're living your values.

479
00:19:10.266 --> 00:19:10.386
Yeah,

480
00:19:10.426 --> 00:19:11.087
this is excellent.

481
00:19:11.107 --> 00:19:12.147
So you're thinking,

482
00:19:12.748 --> 00:19:16.270
and this is some of the analysis we've done in the investigation part of the year.

483
00:19:16.694 --> 00:19:19.416
Episode whereby it's not about selling products,

484
00:19:19.436 --> 00:19:22.038
it's about selling a lifestyle,

485
00:19:22.538 --> 00:19:24.419
a values principle,

486
00:19:24.579 --> 00:19:24.720
etc.

487
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:29.603
And effectively using advertising to turn you into a better person.

488
00:19:30.523 --> 00:19:32.605
It's a personal transformation in so many ways,

489
00:19:32.685 --> 00:19:32.905
right?

490
00:19:32.925 --> 00:19:34.646
When you drive a Volvo,

491
00:19:34.806 --> 00:19:35.867
you feel safe.

492
00:19:35.987 --> 00:19:37.188
You want to pay for that,

493
00:19:37.268 --> 00:19:40.270
especially if you're like a family guy.

494
00:19:40.550 --> 00:19:43.452
You feel that that's the brand that appeals to you.

495
00:19:44.053 --> 00:19:46.114
So brands that don't understand.

496
00:19:46.254 --> 00:20:03.189
the value that fundamentally playing in people's lives are those that get lost and those that go down the avenue that you say where the chip towing into sustainability into diversity and inclusion this is where it goes wrong so the brand should in fact be the hero but the brand should help us be

497
00:20:03.209 --> 00:20:04.530
the heroes of our own lives

498
00:20:05.046 --> 00:20:05.206
Yeah,

499
00:20:05.266 --> 00:20:05.927
I like this quote.

500
00:20:06.247 --> 00:20:11.692
So this leads me to this next question around AI and data-driven targeting.

501
00:20:12.232 --> 00:20:14.114
Advertising is more powerful than ever.

502
00:20:14.414 --> 00:20:20.539
And we've seen some statistics like we are being exposed to 10,000 ads a day,

503
00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:21.860
which is enormous.

504
00:20:21.980 --> 00:20:23.802
And I think a couple of decades ago,

505
00:20:23.882 --> 00:20:25.143
it was only a couple of hundreds.

506
00:20:25.583 --> 00:20:33.730
So how can we ensure that these tools are used to drive responsible consumer choices rather than exploit human psychology for...

507
00:20:34.270 --> 00:20:35.191
excessive consumption.

508
00:20:35.972 --> 00:20:36.172
Yeah,

509
00:20:36.472 --> 00:20:37.793
you're touching something fundamental,

510
00:20:37.833 --> 00:20:38.013
right?

511
00:20:38.053 --> 00:20:42.197
It's an incredible amount of ad spend today.

512
00:20:42.237 --> 00:20:42.437
I mean,

513
00:20:42.437 --> 00:20:43.058
when I started,

514
00:20:44.659 --> 00:20:44.899
you know,

515
00:20:46.340 --> 00:20:47.521
my tenure in advertising,

516
00:20:47.561 --> 00:20:48.202
I think we were around

517
00:20:48.682 --> 00:20:49.363
200 billion.

518
00:20:50.244 --> 00:20:54.367
Now we're past the 1 trillion US dollars spent on advertising.

519
00:20:56.269 --> 00:20:56.809
To be honest,

520
00:20:56.809 --> 00:20:59.692
and this might not be the positive message you're looking for,

521
00:21:00.512 --> 00:21:01.573
I think we lost that game.

522
00:21:03.762 --> 00:21:04.542
As an industry,

523
00:21:04.783 --> 00:21:07.384
I don't think we've lived up to that responsibility,

524
00:21:07.424 --> 00:21:08.044
to be honest.

525
00:21:08.164 --> 00:21:12.746
I think we should,

526
00:21:12.766 --> 00:21:13.226
in fact,

527
00:21:13.226 --> 00:21:13.786
as an industry,

528
00:21:13.906 --> 00:21:14.467
lead that.

529
00:21:15.027 --> 00:21:21.069
We should make sure that we are creating the right guardrails,

530
00:21:21.630 --> 00:21:23.130
that we are protecting people,

531
00:21:23.190 --> 00:21:29.233
that we are giving people a due choice to opt out of the data being shared,

532
00:21:30.093 --> 00:21:30.273
etc.

533
00:21:30.713 --> 00:21:31.314
And I think...

534
00:21:33.226 --> 00:21:34.727
We haven't done that well enough.

535
00:21:34.807 --> 00:21:35.868
I think Europe,

536
00:21:36.228 --> 00:21:36.708
for sure,

537
00:21:36.949 --> 00:21:40.051
is far ahead of many other countries.

538
00:21:40.711 --> 00:21:41.692
But by the end of the day,

539
00:21:41.792 --> 00:21:43.673
it often comes down to politics,

540
00:21:44.193 --> 00:21:46.214
whether you believe in regulation or deregulation.

541
00:21:47.435 --> 00:21:49.977
I do think that,

542
00:21:51.137 --> 00:21:51.398
you know,

543
00:21:53.579 --> 00:21:57.301
the best way forward is always advertising in people's terms.

544
00:21:58.646 --> 00:22:01.947
I think you hint towards giving people more control on the data.

545
00:22:02.067 --> 00:22:08.049
I think there's a hint towards regulation as well as good regulation to some extent.

546
00:22:08.769 --> 00:22:10.589
And that probably leads me to the final question.

547
00:22:10.629 --> 00:22:14.230
So if we were to fast forward to 2050,

548
00:22:14.850 --> 00:22:20.072
what does a world look like where advertising has fully embraced sustainability and,

549
00:22:20.352 --> 00:22:20.692
I guess,

550
00:22:20.732 --> 00:22:21.452
guardrails,

551
00:22:21.612 --> 00:22:22.272
as you mentioned?

552
00:22:22.633 --> 00:22:24.893
And then the related question is,

553
00:22:25.133 --> 00:22:27.454
can capitalism and good advertising...

554
00:22:28.094 --> 00:22:28.974
truly coexist?

555
00:22:29.875 --> 00:22:30.215
You know,

556
00:22:30.275 --> 00:22:31.356
let's acknowledge that,

557
00:22:31.556 --> 00:22:31.796
you know,

558
00:22:31.896 --> 00:22:32.676
capitalism,

559
00:22:33.217 --> 00:22:34.838
depending on how we want to view it historically,

560
00:22:34.838 --> 00:22:39.460
is still a fairly new notion in some ways,

561
00:22:39.540 --> 00:22:39.800
right?

562
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:40.281
And

563
00:22:41.241 --> 00:22:48.005
I think that we've come from a world where capitalism was sort of viewed almost as the world is flat.

564
00:22:48.585 --> 00:22:53.608
I think we now understand that we need a fundamentally new view on capitalism,

565
00:22:53.688 --> 00:22:55.569
where the world is round,

566
00:22:55.769 --> 00:22:57.610
where we look more holistic on...

567
00:22:58.386 --> 00:22:59.146
values,

568
00:22:59.627 --> 00:23:03.128
where we look more holistic on the cost of social capital,

569
00:23:03.748 --> 00:23:04.609
nature capital,

570
00:23:05.129 --> 00:23:05.309
etc.

571
00:23:05.829 --> 00:23:07.010
So for me,

572
00:23:07.090 --> 00:23:13.253
I think we're moving towards a much more progressive and much full understanding of how capitalism can be.

573
00:23:13.533 --> 00:23:15.334
I'm definitely pro-capitalism.

574
00:23:15.894 --> 00:23:24.718
I just want that all factors are equated in that piece of math that we're trying to do when we put a value on a company.

575
00:23:25.178 --> 00:23:46.130
or when we put a value on a product so that has been not the right way doing it so far because ultimately i mean and i say this as a brand guy as an advertising guy i wholeheartedly would love if companies were competing on the creating the best product that serves your needs in the best possible way coco instead

576
00:23:46.150 --> 00:23:53.414
of being just being a sort of beauty contest on incremental nonsense well that was quite uh quite insightful um

577
00:23:54.014 --> 00:23:54.314
Let's,

578
00:23:55.895 --> 00:23:56.635
I was about to say,

579
00:23:56.735 --> 00:23:58.875
hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

580
00:23:58.935 --> 00:24:14.360
But I guess there are ways to find a capitalism that's more responsible with the circular economy and the advertising that help individual be the hero of the story and not just sell products and empty their wallet.

581
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:14.840
Kuko,

582
00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:15.900
I'm with you there.

583
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:21.362
I think we've already progressed tremendously the last two decades.

584
00:24:21.582 --> 00:24:21.862
And.

585
00:24:22.322 --> 00:24:22.462
Well,

586
00:24:22.562 --> 00:24:23.183
fingers crossed.

587
00:24:23.563 --> 00:24:24.864
Let's be optimistic about the future.

588
00:24:25.024 --> 00:24:25.384
Brilliant.

589
00:24:25.484 --> 00:24:28.126
That's an excellent way to end this interview,

590
00:24:28.286 --> 00:24:28.707
Thomas.

591
00:24:28.747 --> 00:24:31.709
It was a pleasure having you with us on the show.

592
00:24:32.169 --> 00:24:32.689
Thanks a lot.

593
00:24:32.809 --> 00:24:34.631
And let's keep in touch.

594
00:24:35.351 --> 00:24:35.631
Thank you.

595
00:24:36.132 --> 00:24:36.412
Thanks.

596
00:24:39.874 --> 00:24:40.635
To wrap things up,

597
00:24:41.255 --> 00:24:42.996
I'll quote David Ogilvie,

598
00:24:43.497 --> 00:24:44.898
the father of advertising,

599
00:24:45.138 --> 00:24:45.638
who said,

600
00:24:46.399 --> 00:24:50.822
Never write an advertisement which you wouldn't want your family to read.

601
00:24:52.034 --> 00:24:52.936
Hold on a second,

602
00:24:53.176 --> 00:24:53.517
Koku.

603
00:24:53.977 --> 00:24:59.246
Wasn't this whole episode just one giant ad for Société Générale Cross-Acid Research?

604
00:25:00.028 --> 00:25:00.328
Hmm,

605
00:25:00.889 --> 00:25:01.250
maybe.

606
00:25:02.294 --> 00:25:04.516
At Societe Generale Rassasset Research,

607
00:25:04.716 --> 00:25:08.819
we deliver content with impact because your mind is worth it.

608
00:25:11.721 --> 00:25:12.201
Well played,

609
00:25:12.281 --> 00:25:12.621
Koku.

610
00:25:13.202 --> 00:25:13.802
Well played.

611
00:25:15.063 --> 00:25:18.085
Thank you for listening to this episode of 2050 Investors.

612
00:25:18.465 --> 00:25:21.688
Thanks to Thomas Kolster for his invaluable insights.

613
00:25:22.148 --> 00:25:25.450
I hope this episode has helped you get a sense of the past,

614
00:25:25.771 --> 00:25:26.251
present,

615
00:25:26.431 --> 00:25:30.334
and future of advertising and how it could be a force for good.

616
00:25:31.206 --> 00:25:33.607
You can find the show on your regular streaming apps.

617
00:25:33.887 --> 00:25:34.948
If you enjoy the show,

618
00:25:35.268 --> 00:25:36.549
help us spread the word.

619
00:25:36.969 --> 00:25:38.590
Please take a minute to subscribe,

620
00:25:38.850 --> 00:25:40.111
review and rate it.

621
00:25:40.551 --> 00:25:42.452
Spotify or Apple podcasts.

622
00:25:43.833 --> 00:25:45.654
See you at the next episode.

623
00:25:48.395 --> 00:25:51.157
While the following podcast discusses the financial markets,

624
00:25:51.437 --> 00:25:54.339
it does not recommend any particular investment decision.

625
00:25:54.679 --> 00:25:57.641
If you aren't sure of the merits of any investment decision,

626
00:25:58.021 --> 00:26:00.122
please seek professional advice.