WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.216 --> 00:00:06.682 Welcome to part two of our episode with Ariane Lotti from Tenuta San Carlo in Tuscany. 2 00:00:07.600 --> 00:00:10.046 This second part is more about farming practices. 3 00:00:10.663 --> 00:00:15.147 Ariane shows us one of her rice fields and explains how her farming rotation works. 4 00:00:15.850 --> 00:00:21.991 She shares some pretty innovative regenerative practices she uses and we also talk about the issue around water. 5 00:00:22.710 --> 00:00:25.600 This episode was made in partnership with Soil Capital. 6 00:00:26.225 --> 00:00:29.819 I am your host Raphael and this is the Deep Seed Podcast. 7 00:00:38.249 --> 00:00:40.027 So as I said earlier, 8 00:00:40.909 --> 00:00:49.003 the reason I grow rice is because this was a former marshland and the soils are the right type of soil for rice, 9 00:00:49.331 --> 00:00:49.784 right? 10 00:00:50.659 --> 00:00:52.019 They're heavy clay soils, 11 00:00:52.066 --> 00:00:53.347 they're poorly drained, 12 00:00:53.800 --> 00:00:55.862 and they hold water really well, 13 00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:58.753 which are all characteristics that rice needs. 14 00:00:59.016 --> 00:00:59.376 to grow. 15 00:00:59.537 --> 00:01:00.017 Obviously 16 00:01:00.538 --> 00:01:12.710 I have an extensive crop rotation through these rice fields but overall on all the land that I manage and I also grow about a dozen other crops organically. 17 00:01:13.453 --> 00:01:25.429 So we're focusing today like you said on the rice because it's that's where some of where I've been testing some of the most more innovative techniques in terms of the regenerative agriculture applications here. 18 00:01:26.753 --> 00:01:26.873 So 19 00:01:27.253 --> 00:01:37.046 I'd like to take a step back though and just talk about briefly are what I call my traditional organic rice production method, 20 00:01:37.546 --> 00:01:37.827 right? 21 00:01:39.429 --> 00:01:41.624 Obviously everything is always, 22 00:01:42.389 --> 00:01:42.671 you know, 23 00:01:43.405 --> 00:01:46.077 there's no one way I do something. 24 00:01:47.608 --> 00:01:48.577 It's a constant, 25 00:01:49.374 --> 00:01:49.608 you know, 26 00:01:49.655 --> 00:01:50.999 back and forth with the land, 27 00:01:51.202 --> 00:01:51.858 see what works, 28 00:01:52.077 --> 00:01:52.874 see what doesn't. 29 00:01:54.324 --> 00:01:55.744 What problems are in this field? 30 00:01:55.805 --> 00:01:57.364 What do we want to improve in that field? 31 00:01:57.425 --> 00:02:01.946 And so all of that is part of our context. 32 00:02:02.470 --> 00:02:04.563 But in terms of the very basics of it, 33 00:02:05.704 --> 00:02:10.220 the technique over the years that I've developed for most of our rice fields is, 34 00:02:10.985 --> 00:02:16.392 it relies heavily on cover crops and on crop rotation in our rice management. 35 00:02:16.829 --> 00:02:21.657 And rice gets planted in May and harvested in October. 36 00:02:22.384 --> 00:02:24.104 And the fall before, 37 00:02:26.427 --> 00:02:32.985 I plant a cover crop that then grows over the wintertime here because we are in a Mediterranean climate. 38 00:02:33.524 --> 00:02:36.767 The cover crop tends to be a fava bean cover crop, 39 00:02:36.931 --> 00:02:38.845 so loves heavy soils, 40 00:02:38.860 --> 00:02:39.563 a legume. 41 00:02:39.907 --> 00:02:41.001 I work a lot on, 42 00:02:41.876 --> 00:02:43.392 it provides a lot of biomass, 43 00:02:43.907 --> 00:02:46.110 a lot of nitrogen to the soil, 44 00:02:46.610 --> 00:02:48.907 and helps structure the soil as well. 45 00:02:50.251 --> 00:02:51.423 And then I will... 46 00:02:51.872 --> 00:03:02.245 till that biomass in in March and then level the field and do the final field prep for rice production for rice planting in May. 47 00:03:02.784 --> 00:03:17.151 Rice gets planted in water about this deep and so in May this field was a little lake essentially and then we are now in the primary kind of 48 00:03:17.624 --> 00:03:17.864 you know, 49 00:03:18.024 --> 00:03:21.087 vegetative phase before the rice starts, 50 00:03:21.148 --> 00:03:24.572 the rice grain head starts to emerge in about a couple of weeks. 51 00:03:25.751 --> 00:03:25.869 The, 52 00:03:26.150 --> 00:03:27.056 obviously I don't, 53 00:03:27.314 --> 00:03:27.533 you know, 54 00:03:27.697 --> 00:03:31.119 apply any herbicides, 55 00:03:31.173 --> 00:03:31.720 pesticides, 56 00:03:31.721 --> 00:03:32.798 we're certified organic, 57 00:03:33.861 --> 00:03:36.501 but the more regenerative technique, 58 00:03:36.767 --> 00:03:38.845 I wanted to explain that primary, 59 00:03:38.908 --> 00:03:44.236 the basics of of that technique because the regenerative one tries to essentially 60 00:03:45.348 --> 00:03:50.632 minimize or limit soil disturbance over a two-year period in rice production. 61 00:03:51.613 --> 00:03:58.062 And so this was a technique originally developed by a farmer with the University of Milan in Northern Italy, 62 00:03:58.304 --> 00:04:04.242 and I've been the first to kind of apply it and think through it here in Tuscany. 63 00:04:04.789 --> 00:04:09.867 So instead of planting a cover crop in the fall before rice, 64 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:12.601 you plant essentially a hay field, 65 00:04:12.695 --> 00:04:12.882 right? 66 00:04:12.883 --> 00:04:14.210 You plant vetch and rye. 67 00:04:14.412 --> 00:04:15.493 on a leveled field. 68 00:04:15.593 --> 00:04:21.899 So you do all of your field prep in the fall and that hay field, 69 00:04:21.900 --> 00:04:22.758 the vetch and rye, 70 00:04:23.164 --> 00:04:25.539 grow throughout the winter and into the spring. 71 00:04:26.086 --> 00:04:29.204 And instead of tilling all of that biomass back into the soil, 72 00:04:29.805 --> 00:04:35.414 I plant directly into the standing hay field in May. 73 00:04:35.539 --> 00:04:37.821 So I plant rice into that. 74 00:04:38.508 --> 00:04:40.524 And then immediately after that, 75 00:04:41.899 --> 00:04:42.352 I mow. 76 00:04:43.136 --> 00:04:43.296 Right, 77 00:04:43.297 --> 00:04:45.079 and so you get a, 78 00:04:45.962 --> 00:04:47.384 like all of that biomass, 79 00:04:47.442 --> 00:04:49.809 which in May is higher than I am, 80 00:04:50.009 --> 00:04:50.868 taller than I am, 81 00:04:52.349 --> 00:04:56.802 forms about a mulch this thick with the rice seeds in it, 82 00:04:57.161 --> 00:04:58.184 and then I flood, 83 00:04:58.903 --> 00:04:59.130 right? 84 00:04:59.161 --> 00:04:59.958 And that flooding 85 00:05:00.288 --> 00:05:08.817 causes a fermentation to happen over a few days and then I remove the water and you'll get that wet mulch, 86 00:05:09.458 --> 00:05:09.716 right, 87 00:05:09.794 --> 00:05:17.481 that rice seeds will start to germinate in and then through and then the rest of the production season is similar, 88 00:05:17.591 --> 00:05:17.747 right, 89 00:05:17.748 --> 00:05:20.747 because we don't really do much during the production season. 90 00:05:20.809 --> 00:05:27.153 The rice plant will grow and we will then harvest in October like all of the other rice. 91 00:05:27.788 --> 00:05:31.632 What happens in certain years is that then the vetch, 92 00:05:33.474 --> 00:05:34.192 no not the vetch, 93 00:05:34.235 --> 00:05:46.145 the rye will re-germinate over that winter after the rice harvest and so we'll get a secondary crop of rye seed from that original planting. 94 00:05:46.630 --> 00:05:56.614 It's not a very profitable crop obviously but that means that we go approximately two years in annual rice production without a... 95 00:05:58.009 --> 00:05:59.329 without tilling the soil. 96 00:06:00.290 --> 00:06:03.034 There are a lot of things that... 97 00:06:03.433 --> 00:06:05.355 I've done the technique for five years, 98 00:06:05.656 --> 00:06:12.601 and last year with the irrigation district that I'm a part of, 99 00:06:12.640 --> 00:06:18.656 I actually started measuring the water consumption of the two different techniques and put water meters on those fields. 100 00:06:19.327 --> 00:06:26.343 And we saw that the regenerative practice actually used a little bit more water in the entire season. 101 00:06:26.848 --> 00:06:31.412 And that's because in that first flooding, 102 00:06:32.873 --> 00:06:35.178 in order to like effectively cover the mulch, 103 00:06:35.459 --> 00:06:36.842 which is about this big, 104 00:06:36.881 --> 00:06:44.389 you're actually using two or three times more water than you actually need in that other than you use in that other technique. 105 00:06:44.826 --> 00:06:50.404 And so at the beginning of the season you actually have more water consumption. 106 00:06:51.576 --> 00:06:54.389 And then there have been problems with the heat. 107 00:06:55.232 --> 00:06:56.833 Sometimes we get a really hot 108 00:06:57.413 --> 00:07:03.120 May and the heat will cause the fermentation to go too far, 109 00:07:03.523 --> 00:07:03.718 right? 110 00:07:03.719 --> 00:07:06.780 And so we have to be really careful in that. 111 00:07:06.820 --> 00:07:07.507 But essentially, 112 00:07:08.327 --> 00:07:11.710 if you think about the two production techniques I mentioned, 113 00:07:12.148 --> 00:07:12.991 they are, 114 00:07:14.585 --> 00:07:20.023 they help me manage climate risk because the field work is actually in two different parts of the year, 115 00:07:20.491 --> 00:07:20.757 right? 116 00:07:20.835 --> 00:07:22.913 So the field work for the, 117 00:07:23.257 --> 00:07:23.523 you know, 118 00:07:23.679 --> 00:07:24.195 the less 119 00:07:24.668 --> 00:07:26.269 The like no-till or more, 120 00:07:26.629 --> 00:07:26.889 you know, 121 00:07:27.268 --> 00:07:27.610 I don't know, 122 00:07:27.611 --> 00:07:30.711 we're calling it more regenerative technique is in the fall, 123 00:07:31.188 --> 00:07:33.071 whereas the majority of the planting work, 124 00:07:33.274 --> 00:07:33.492 you know, 125 00:07:33.493 --> 00:07:36.047 the pre-planting work and the other technique is in the spring. 126 00:07:36.852 --> 00:07:37.750 Last fall, 127 00:07:38.469 --> 00:07:40.571 we had a very rainy fall. 128 00:07:40.836 --> 00:07:41.164 And so 129 00:07:41.899 --> 00:07:45.727 I had in the crop plan one of the rice field, 130 00:07:45.774 --> 00:07:46.008 you know, 131 00:07:46.039 --> 00:07:48.133 a few of the rice fields in that technique, 132 00:07:48.134 --> 00:07:52.274 but we weren't able to get in and level the field. 133 00:07:52.620 --> 00:07:55.243 and plant the field in time for then, 134 00:07:55.384 --> 00:07:55.622 you know, 135 00:07:55.763 --> 00:07:57.102 before the deep winter. 136 00:07:57.626 --> 00:07:58.946 And so actually this year 137 00:07:59.286 --> 00:08:06.517 I don't have one of those fields in production because it rains so much. 138 00:08:07.274 --> 00:08:07.493 You know, 139 00:08:07.712 --> 00:08:08.352 oddly enough, 140 00:08:08.517 --> 00:08:16.446 had we had one of those fields in production that would have helped me manage the intense amount of rain that we got in May during the planting season, 141 00:08:16.571 --> 00:08:20.134 which delayed us significantly because in the years when I have had that, 142 00:08:20.588 --> 00:08:27.949 technique in the field and we've had a wet planting season, 143 00:08:28.090 --> 00:08:35.492 I'm always able to get the rice into those fields on time because I'm not tilling anything. 144 00:08:35.688 --> 00:08:41.289 And so perfecting that technique is one of the things that I'm working on. 145 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:43.446 But I'm also right now, 146 00:08:44.477 --> 00:08:46.180 we do have livestock on the farm. 147 00:08:47.484 --> 00:08:49.707 And we haven't talked too much about the livestock. 148 00:08:49.847 --> 00:08:50.187 Obviously, 149 00:08:50.246 --> 00:08:53.551 livestock is an important part of any regenerative system. 150 00:08:54.351 --> 00:09:01.637 And one of the things that I'm working on now is trying to figure out how to get animals into my rice, 151 00:09:01.801 --> 00:09:01.980 well, 152 00:09:02.082 --> 00:09:03.418 generally into the crop production, 153 00:09:03.527 --> 00:09:05.808 but more specifically into the rice fields. 154 00:09:06.621 --> 00:09:06.980 And 155 00:09:07.543 --> 00:09:08.512 I'm working on, 156 00:09:08.605 --> 00:09:13.105 and maybe you'll come back in a year and see if we're testing this in the field or not. 157 00:09:13.676 --> 00:09:20.303 Trying to understand whether it makes sense to have ducks run through the fields for a month or two, 158 00:09:20.662 --> 00:09:20.862 right? 159 00:09:20.924 --> 00:09:30.815 There are a lot of like public health regulations to work through and a lot of like duck management things to learn. 160 00:09:31.518 --> 00:09:34.440 But it is an interesting... 161 00:09:35.324 --> 00:09:36.646 technique to think about, 162 00:09:36.886 --> 00:09:37.126 you know, 163 00:09:37.127 --> 00:09:38.408 in a field like this, 164 00:09:39.367 --> 00:09:41.511 having ducks come in around this time, 165 00:09:41.531 --> 00:09:41.769 you know, 166 00:09:41.812 --> 00:09:46.195 within the past month and for another few weeks to help fertilize, 167 00:09:46.234 --> 00:09:47.577 but also to eat the weeds. 168 00:09:48.218 --> 00:09:49.054 So we'll see. 169 00:09:49.218 --> 00:09:50.538 Stay tuned on that front. 170 00:09:51.554 --> 00:09:54.023 And it's, 171 00:09:54.335 --> 00:09:54.742 I don't know, 172 00:09:54.804 --> 00:09:55.585 it's a process. 173 00:09:56.179 --> 00:09:57.085 It sounds really interesting. 174 00:09:57.101 --> 00:10:02.570 I did a conversation a while back with a university professor from the Netherlands. 175 00:10:03.312 --> 00:10:05.915 And they're doing the Lighthouse Farm Network. 176 00:10:06.094 --> 00:10:07.717 One of them is in Indonesia. 177 00:10:07.796 --> 00:10:13.104 And I know that he mentioned that they were working on a similar system with rice fields there with ducks and fishes. 178 00:10:13.425 --> 00:10:13.565 Oh, 179 00:10:13.721 --> 00:10:14.206 I'd love to. 180 00:10:15.846 --> 00:10:18.190 Maybe that's a good contact to be in touch with. 181 00:10:18.245 --> 00:10:19.010 That would be great. 182 00:10:19.581 --> 00:10:19.721 Yeah, 183 00:10:19.784 --> 00:10:22.112 but I remember the story being so interesting. 184 00:10:22.113 --> 00:10:26.128 The idea of like including these animals and they each bring a different benefit. 185 00:10:26.190 --> 00:10:27.175 Yeah, 186 00:10:27.253 --> 00:10:30.940 that sort of first method you described there of planting into your... 187 00:10:31.208 --> 00:10:47.086 your field and then mowing it and and fermenting it so you you mentioned some of the downsides the the water uses a big one yeah um what are the big upsides yeah the big upsides are that you um you don't obviously till 188 00:10:47.101 --> 00:10:59.039 the field right you're not you don't you're not um compacting the soil you're helping improve the soil quality and the soil structure and all of the soil ecosystem right And then it's... 189 00:11:00.096 --> 00:11:00.717 It gives us, 190 00:11:01.417 --> 00:11:03.240 when we don't have a super rainy fall, 191 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:10.710 it helps us manage that climate risk that I said because there's less field work in a certain part of the year that here, 192 00:11:10.984 --> 00:11:11.968 when it's often raining, 193 00:11:12.007 --> 00:11:13.312 which is planting season. 194 00:11:14.734 --> 00:11:19.742 And it's the biodiversity, 195 00:11:19.882 --> 00:11:20.320 so we get, 196 00:11:20.710 --> 00:11:23.117 I get high biodiversity in my cover crop, 197 00:11:23.492 --> 00:11:25.085 my regular cover crop method too, 198 00:11:25.304 --> 00:11:28.476 but the The biodiversity that we get here in this... 199 00:11:28.628 --> 00:11:46.119 bring in the in the vetch and the rye field in terms of not just the plants but all of the you know the insects and then the birds it's it's a beautiful system to see when we're planting um so there's that that piece to it as well but the water piece is a big piece 200 00:11:46.291 --> 00:11:55.291 right to figure out how to manage we right now i'm part of an irrigation district and what that means is that i um 201 00:11:55.864 --> 00:11:57.586 I participate and I pay into, 202 00:11:58.007 --> 00:11:58.606 essentially, 203 00:12:00.768 --> 00:12:04.534 to an entity that manages the infrastructure around irrigation. 204 00:12:04.597 --> 00:12:06.995 And so there's a river nearby. 205 00:12:09.034 --> 00:12:13.003 The river is, 206 00:12:13.347 --> 00:12:13.581 you know, 207 00:12:13.659 --> 00:12:14.847 comes from the watershed, 208 00:12:14.878 --> 00:12:15.409 the hills, 209 00:12:15.987 --> 00:12:19.722 and all of the water gets redistributed here. 210 00:12:20.168 --> 00:12:20.408 you know, 211 00:12:20.588 --> 00:12:21.808 in underground tubes. 212 00:12:21.968 --> 00:12:23.489 Because obviously we are in Tuscany, 213 00:12:23.588 --> 00:12:25.967 so it doesn't rain that often in the summertime. 214 00:12:26.428 --> 00:12:27.671 And in a certain sense, 215 00:12:27.690 --> 00:12:35.014 that water management of underground tubes has greatly improved the water use efficiency in this area. 216 00:12:36.733 --> 00:12:42.639 And now we're metering all of the water and working on improving the amount of water, 217 00:12:42.780 --> 00:12:48.014 or diminishing the amount of water that we use on a per hectare basis in rice production. 218 00:12:51.942 --> 00:12:53.003 It's a big topic. 219 00:12:53.604 --> 00:12:53.765 Yeah. 220 00:12:53.903 --> 00:12:54.265 And 221 00:12:55.026 --> 00:12:55.886 I have tried, 222 00:12:55.925 --> 00:12:59.589 I did experiment with a research institute once in Italy, 223 00:13:01.393 --> 00:13:01.729 rice, 224 00:13:01.808 --> 00:13:03.753 growing rice with drip irrigation. 225 00:13:04.815 --> 00:13:07.464 I don't want to say it failed because nothing ever fails, 226 00:13:07.604 --> 00:13:17.589 but the experiment that we did did not produce sufficient rice at a good quality to immediately. 227 00:13:18.416 --> 00:13:23.857 invest in that kind of irrigation technology on a broad scale. 228 00:13:25.876 --> 00:13:28.435 I did get elected to the water board here. 229 00:13:28.841 --> 00:13:29.935 I participate now. 230 00:13:29.997 --> 00:13:33.036 I'm the president of the Irrigation Commission because it's such a big... 231 00:13:33.677 --> 00:13:39.419 The management of the water resource is such an important part to the future of this area, 232 00:13:39.544 --> 00:13:40.966 but to the future generally, 233 00:13:41.622 --> 00:13:41.935 that 234 00:13:43.841 --> 00:13:43.966 I... 235 00:13:44.716 --> 00:13:48.882 Let's say I'm actively involved in conversations around water use here, 236 00:13:49.362 --> 00:13:49.522 right, 237 00:13:49.523 --> 00:14:04.179 with the goal both of being able to conserve and monitor and improve the water management of the area and also make sure that farming can still exist in this area. 238 00:14:05.741 --> 00:14:09.741 Just a very quick pause to tell you about the official partner of the Deep Seat podcast. 239 00:14:10.088 --> 00:14:10.668 Soil Capital. 240 00:14:11.709 --> 00:14:21.313 Soil Capital is a company that accelerates to transition to regenerative agriculture by financially rewarding farmers who improve things like soil health and biodiversity. 241 00:14:22.134 --> 00:14:26.837 They're an amazing company and if you'd like to learn more about them I will leave a link in the description of this episode. 242 00:14:28.056 --> 00:14:33.399 Is there a lot of pressure on that side here in the area in terms of like water scarcity becoming more and more of an issue? 243 00:14:33.806 --> 00:14:35.274 Yeah it is it is 244 00:14:35.817 --> 00:14:40.221 It is an issue and it's interesting too because certain research studies, 245 00:14:40.222 --> 00:14:41.342 at least in Italy now, 246 00:14:41.604 --> 00:14:44.448 are showing that irrigation practices, 247 00:14:44.487 --> 00:14:47.245 including like flood irrigation for rice fields, 248 00:14:47.307 --> 00:14:51.635 help to counteract the salt incursion, 249 00:14:51.714 --> 00:14:55.979 the salt water incursion that's coming in from the sea because of just a density, 250 00:14:56.479 --> 00:14:57.510 water density question. 251 00:14:58.104 --> 00:15:03.042 But we are obviously looking at a future where 252 00:15:03.268 --> 00:15:30.228 as well that we're living right now right there are years of water scarcity and years of water abundance and being able to effectively manage both of those situations at a water scale level at a watershed level is one of the things that um i think is the one of the biggest challenges for agriculture and one of the more interesting challenges too right from just like how do you design water systems. 253 00:15:31.489 --> 00:15:34.832 so that you can meet the needs of many different uses, 254 00:15:34.871 --> 00:15:36.055 including agriculture. 255 00:15:36.832 --> 00:15:38.016 Yeah. 256 00:15:38.157 --> 00:15:41.723 There's been cases we discussed on recent episodes where, 257 00:15:42.700 --> 00:15:42.942 you know, 258 00:15:43.457 --> 00:15:48.723 regenerative farmers are working hard to try and recreate the water cycles to revive it locally. 259 00:15:49.051 --> 00:15:52.645 And one of the problems they're having is that there are in the region, 260 00:15:52.723 --> 00:15:53.411 in the watershed, 261 00:15:54.051 --> 00:15:56.895 big industrial producers who consume a lot of water. 262 00:15:58.585 --> 00:15:59.726 Does that happen here as well? 263 00:15:59.767 --> 00:16:03.110 How can you regulate the amount of water? 264 00:16:03.232 --> 00:16:03.470 Yeah, 265 00:16:03.771 --> 00:16:05.732 and this is the benefit of having... 266 00:16:07.052 --> 00:16:07.833 I say a benefit, 267 00:16:07.872 --> 00:16:08.091 I mean, 268 00:16:08.177 --> 00:16:13.278 I pay into what is a public authority that manages the irrigation district, 269 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:15.560 that manages the water infrastructure here. 270 00:16:16.216 --> 00:16:17.919 Because if it were privatized, 271 00:16:18.060 --> 00:16:26.716 it'd be very difficult to have that dialogue in a way that would satisfy everybody. 272 00:16:27.380 --> 00:16:31.823 And so because of a European law that regionally has been adopted, 273 00:16:31.846 --> 00:16:38.315 we are now their water meters on all of the irrigation district. 274 00:16:38.370 --> 00:16:39.995 And so historically, 275 00:16:40.190 --> 00:16:47.628 the way the tax or the payment to the district was calculated was on a fixed rate basis primarily. 276 00:16:48.362 --> 00:16:51.237 And that's changed now completely as of this year, 277 00:16:51.378 --> 00:16:54.549 where we're going on a consumption basis. 278 00:16:55.136 --> 00:16:56.536 So if you consume more water, 279 00:16:56.656 --> 00:16:57.177 you pay. 280 00:16:57.396 --> 00:16:59.776 And then the irrigation district, 281 00:16:59.839 --> 00:17:01.519 one of the projects I'm working with them on, 282 00:17:01.636 --> 00:17:06.476 is to collect the baseline data on how much a hectare of rice, 283 00:17:07.460 --> 00:17:08.616 how much water does it use? 284 00:17:08.617 --> 00:17:10.702 How much does a hectare of tomatoes use? 285 00:17:11.280 --> 00:17:13.984 There's a lot of wheat in the area that doesn't get irrigated. 286 00:17:14.077 --> 00:17:17.515 How much does a hectare of corn use? 287 00:17:17.859 --> 00:17:19.359 So that they have a baseline. 288 00:17:20.588 --> 00:17:24.933 And then we can have a dialogue with the irrigation district where they say, 289 00:17:25.074 --> 00:17:25.371 okay, 290 00:17:25.691 --> 00:17:26.914 the water level is low, 291 00:17:27.074 --> 00:17:36.004 so for this production season we can only authorize a certain number of hectares of rice or of tomatoes. 292 00:17:36.785 --> 00:17:39.910 And while that's not something that I personally, 293 00:17:40.722 --> 00:17:42.410 as a farm business manager, 294 00:17:42.863 --> 00:17:49.394 appreciate in terms of wanting someone that can limit my production the truth is that if you don't manage the 295 00:17:49.620 --> 00:17:51.041 the resource collectively, 296 00:17:51.783 --> 00:17:53.303 there's not going to be enough for anybody. 297 00:17:54.205 --> 00:17:54.525 And so 298 00:17:55.725 --> 00:17:57.025 I, just this week, 299 00:17:57.369 --> 00:18:04.916 we had a meeting of the Irrigation Commission to talk about the percentages that are going to be fixed or variable, 300 00:18:05.416 --> 00:18:05.643 right, 301 00:18:05.814 --> 00:18:07.002 based off of consumption. 302 00:18:07.533 --> 00:18:09.846 And then what the regulation around that, 303 00:18:09.924 --> 00:18:10.143 you know, 304 00:18:10.144 --> 00:18:13.080 the rules around water use will be going into the future, 305 00:18:13.236 --> 00:18:13.768 because 306 00:18:14.896 --> 00:18:18.440 I do believe that if you effectively manage a water resource, 307 00:18:18.540 --> 00:18:22.524 irrigation can be part of the water use, 308 00:18:22.786 --> 00:18:30.208 but it has to be measured to what the resource can sustain and what the other uses are. 309 00:18:30.645 --> 00:18:30.786 Yeah, 310 00:18:31.052 --> 00:18:31.427 of course, 311 00:18:31.458 --> 00:18:31.614 yes. 312 00:18:32.395 --> 00:18:42.145 But I suppose controlling the water use like this and working on a more of a usage-based cost will also incentivize 313 00:18:43.360 --> 00:18:48.467 moving towards producing crops that are more resilient to water scarcity, 314 00:18:48.627 --> 00:18:55.471 maybe other older varieties and slowly kind of shifting the focus towards something that makes more sense for the future, 315 00:18:55.635 --> 00:18:55.752 no? 316 00:18:55.893 --> 00:18:56.111 Yeah, 317 00:18:56.416 --> 00:18:56.877 I think so. 318 00:18:57.377 --> 00:18:57.635 You know, 319 00:18:57.674 --> 00:18:57.932 I mean, 320 00:18:58.478 --> 00:19:01.643 although it's a long road, 321 00:19:01.986 --> 00:19:02.205 right, 322 00:19:02.252 --> 00:19:06.939 because we do use water, 323 00:19:07.361 --> 00:19:07.580 right, 324 00:19:07.627 --> 00:19:09.018 but not just for agriculture, 325 00:19:09.127 --> 00:19:10.580 we humans use water. 326 00:19:10.674 --> 00:19:12.346 And so what 327 00:19:12.512 --> 00:19:17.037 how much water use and what's sustainable water use and what's regenerative water use. 328 00:19:17.377 --> 00:19:18.658 Those are questions that 329 00:19:19.517 --> 00:19:26.068 I'm slowly trying to introduce into the irrigation district because up until now it's been like, 330 00:19:26.084 --> 00:19:26.264 well, 331 00:19:26.428 --> 00:19:27.006 there's water, 332 00:19:27.225 --> 00:19:27.490 right? 333 00:19:27.685 --> 00:19:29.662 And we can just use it. 334 00:19:30.146 --> 00:19:31.865 But like I mentioned in 2017, 335 00:19:31.866 --> 00:19:32.631 there was a drought. 336 00:19:32.709 --> 00:19:33.975 And then in 2022, 337 00:19:34.709 --> 00:19:37.896 we were on red alert for water use and had to, 338 00:19:38.162 --> 00:19:38.412 you know, 339 00:19:39.318 --> 00:19:39.443 the, 340 00:19:39.693 --> 00:19:39.818 the, 341 00:19:40.396 --> 00:19:41.257 They implemented, 342 00:19:41.297 --> 00:19:42.339 the irrigation district, 343 00:19:42.340 --> 00:19:43.960 a number of conservation techniques, 344 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:47.124 but you know that obviously will be the norm, 345 00:19:47.464 --> 00:19:48.105 right? 346 00:19:48.265 --> 00:19:49.304 The difference is, 347 00:19:49.648 --> 00:19:49.944 you know, 348 00:19:50.007 --> 00:19:54.288 the wild swings between water abundance and water scarcity. 349 00:19:54.851 --> 00:20:02.796 And so trying to have that conversation within the entity of the irrigation district to say, 350 00:20:02.874 --> 00:20:03.093 okay, 351 00:20:03.296 --> 00:20:06.640 what is a sustainable water use? 352 00:20:07.364 --> 00:20:11.289 plan here is it's the first time that conversation is being had. 353 00:20:11.969 --> 00:20:13.691 At least you're having a conversation about it, 354 00:20:13.692 --> 00:20:15.012 that's already a good start. 355 00:20:15.152 --> 00:20:16.472 Yeah, 356 00:20:16.473 --> 00:20:16.551 yeah. 357 00:20:16.552 --> 00:20:20.418 So coming back to regenerative agriculture and the practices that you do here, 358 00:20:21.418 --> 00:20:27.558 one question that just came to mind is do you do any crop rotation besides the cover crops that comes in the winter? 359 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:28.168 Oh yeah, 360 00:20:28.183 --> 00:20:28.621 yeah, 361 00:20:28.683 --> 00:20:28.840 yeah, 362 00:20:28.841 --> 00:20:28.965 yeah. 363 00:20:28.966 --> 00:20:33.168 It's not like a place that is really dedicated to rice production and you do it every year? 364 00:20:33.824 --> 00:20:33.996 Yeah, 365 00:20:33.997 --> 00:20:34.074 yeah, 366 00:20:34.075 --> 00:20:34.152 yeah. 367 00:20:34.153 --> 00:20:35.324 We do crop rotation, 368 00:20:35.371 --> 00:20:36.277 one of my favorite. 369 00:20:37.048 --> 00:20:47.941 quotes is crop rotation as with life is a journey not a destination crop rotation is a huge part of what we do and so just to give you a sense the farm is 480 hectares 370 00:20:48.316 --> 00:21:05.856 350 are arable land right because we have the marshlands and pine forests which are classified which don't have annual crop production on them and of that 350 I have annually 35 to 45 hectares in rice production so 371 00:21:07.152 --> 00:21:14.555 the vast majority of actually the hectares I produce is in other crops. 372 00:21:16.516 --> 00:21:18.133 The most profitable is rice. 373 00:21:18.297 --> 00:21:19.696 And right now 374 00:21:20.352 --> 00:21:23.555 I have a three to four year crop rotation on rice, 375 00:21:23.633 --> 00:21:23.852 right? 376 00:21:23.915 --> 00:21:28.555 So if we're doing our traditional rice production, 377 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:33.540 so let's say this will be harvested in October and then 378 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:44.654 A couple years ago I started integrating a technique where I just broadcast immediately after harvest clover seed on top because you can't go in and prep the field for any sort of, 379 00:21:46.389 --> 00:21:46.670 you know, 380 00:21:49.983 --> 00:21:53.061 crop planting that's not just broadcasting at that point. 381 00:21:53.998 --> 00:21:55.076 What do you mean by broadcasting? 382 00:21:55.108 --> 00:21:55.764 Broadcasting, 383 00:21:55.858 --> 00:21:58.389 so like a manure spreader, 384 00:21:58.529 --> 00:21:59.951 you just like throw it on. 385 00:21:59.998 --> 00:22:00.123 Yeah, 386 00:22:00.201 --> 00:22:00.373 okay. 387 00:22:00.420 --> 00:22:00.670 Right? 388 00:22:00.764 --> 00:22:01.561 So we go in. 389 00:22:02.268 --> 00:22:14.096 with our tractor with the steel wheels and just throw the seed on right right after harvest and so we'll get a Clover crop because otherwise it would just the field would just stay uncovered through the winter and into the next summer 390 00:22:14.800 --> 00:22:21.214 We get a a clover crop out of that and a cover crop essentially and then the following year 391 00:22:21.854 --> 00:22:28.557 We do so that one of the rotations that working out best although it varies in different parts of the field We do 392 00:22:29.167 --> 00:22:30.995 I'll do a legume 393 00:22:31.364 --> 00:22:33.487 which is a fava bean for seed, 394 00:22:34.207 --> 00:22:34.448 right, 395 00:22:35.069 --> 00:22:36.389 which would be a fall planted. 396 00:22:36.811 --> 00:22:39.514 And then I'll do a grain crop after that, 397 00:22:39.553 --> 00:22:40.491 which is farrow. 398 00:22:41.053 --> 00:22:42.897 We found that farrow works really well. 399 00:22:43.756 --> 00:22:47.123 Other crops that I've tried include organic, 400 00:22:47.241 --> 00:22:47.483 you know, 401 00:22:47.577 --> 00:22:48.498 well everything's organic, 402 00:22:48.748 --> 00:22:50.467 so heirloom wheat varieties, 403 00:22:50.889 --> 00:22:51.358 flax, 404 00:22:51.952 --> 00:22:52.811 sunflowers. 405 00:22:52.905 --> 00:22:53.983 I've tried a variety, 406 00:22:54.045 --> 00:22:54.420 millet, 407 00:22:54.623 --> 00:22:55.967 I've tried a variety of different 408 00:22:56.652 --> 00:22:59.195 kind of primary crops in the rice rotation, 409 00:22:59.256 --> 00:23:05.103 but because the fields are structured in a different way to really hold water instead of drain water, 410 00:23:05.619 --> 00:23:08.666 only a few crops really can handle that situation. 411 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:09.025 And so 412 00:23:09.705 --> 00:23:15.213 I found that farrow is a crop that goes into that rotation well. 413 00:23:15.244 --> 00:23:19.791 And so you'll do the farrow and then after that you'll plant the fava bean or, 414 00:23:19.978 --> 00:23:20.197 you know, 415 00:23:20.228 --> 00:23:24.635 your cover crop mix before the rice cycle then again. 416 00:23:25.213 --> 00:23:25.400 Okay. 417 00:23:26.532 --> 00:23:28.434 And did you have animals on the farm? 418 00:23:28.734 --> 00:23:28.994 Yes, 419 00:23:29.234 --> 00:23:30.076 we have animals on the farm. 420 00:23:30.077 --> 00:23:32.437 Do you also integrate them onto the rotation or is it a separate? 421 00:23:32.777 --> 00:23:40.223 So that's where the ducks came in because I was kind of struck in my mind about how to get animals on the rice fields, 422 00:23:40.246 --> 00:23:42.270 which is a goal, 423 00:23:42.645 --> 00:23:42.910 right? 424 00:23:43.348 --> 00:23:46.270 It's the next big step in our regenerative agriculture journey. 425 00:23:46.770 --> 00:23:54.426 I have a heritage breed of cattle that pastures in our pine forests and in... 426 00:23:54.892 --> 00:23:57.093 the fields and pastures towards the sea, 427 00:23:57.775 --> 00:23:58.035 right? 428 00:23:59.195 --> 00:24:12.437 Getting those animals across the road and into the fields themselves is a large logistical challenge that I've started to address in terms of trying to, 429 00:24:13.531 --> 00:24:13.765 you know, 430 00:24:13.890 --> 00:24:16.171 introduce more mobile fencing. 431 00:24:16.359 --> 00:24:19.250 And we tried some of the no-fence collars as well. 432 00:24:20.703 --> 00:24:23.828 And I work with a cowboy who helps me manage the cows. 433 00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:25.742 by horse as well. 434 00:24:26.283 --> 00:24:32.646 But there's a big logistical question which is that the cows currently are on the other side of a provincial road, 435 00:24:32.912 --> 00:24:33.169 right, 436 00:24:33.208 --> 00:24:34.951 because the farm's in two big pieces. 437 00:24:35.349 --> 00:24:38.857 And getting them out here is a logistical challenge. 438 00:24:38.872 --> 00:24:40.857 And that's why when I heard about the ducks, 439 00:24:41.419 --> 00:24:41.841 I was like, 440 00:24:41.904 --> 00:24:42.091 oh, 441 00:24:42.685 --> 00:24:46.341 that seems a lot more feasible than moving at the moment, 442 00:24:46.482 --> 00:24:47.404 I heard of cows. 443 00:24:47.638 --> 00:24:47.904 I do, 444 00:24:48.857 --> 00:24:49.607 In my mind, 445 00:24:49.747 --> 00:24:53.794 there's the goal of having the cows graze on these fields. 446 00:24:55.619 --> 00:24:57.842 It's always a goal that's five or ten years out. 447 00:24:59.327 --> 00:24:59.526 Okay, 448 00:24:59.846 --> 00:24:59.967 yeah. 449 00:25:01.631 --> 00:25:06.295 So all of these methods that you've been applying for a number of years now, 450 00:25:06.397 --> 00:25:06.975 have you seen 451 00:25:07.848 --> 00:25:08.749 Some benefits to, 452 00:25:09.290 --> 00:25:09.530 I mean, 453 00:25:09.950 --> 00:25:12.372 some improvements in soil health and biodiversity. 454 00:25:12.392 --> 00:25:14.376 Have you been measuring the soil? 455 00:25:15.017 --> 00:25:15.935 What can you tell us about that? 456 00:25:16.060 --> 00:25:16.192 Yeah, 457 00:25:16.356 --> 00:25:16.474 yeah, 458 00:25:16.521 --> 00:25:16.638 yeah. 459 00:25:16.739 --> 00:25:22.302 So as soon as you start adding crop rotations and cover crops, 460 00:25:22.966 --> 00:25:27.192 you start to see in a couple of years just the soil structure. 461 00:25:28.364 --> 00:25:32.427 You start to see the microbiological activity. 462 00:25:32.927 --> 00:25:33.192 You know, 463 00:25:33.239 --> 00:25:34.021 you look at the color, 464 00:25:34.036 --> 00:25:34.536 you look at the, 465 00:25:34.927 --> 00:25:35.177 you know, 466 00:25:35.192 --> 00:25:37.114 all of the different kind of indicators. 467 00:25:37.344 --> 00:25:38.565 physical indicators, 468 00:25:38.606 --> 00:25:38.766 right? 469 00:25:38.767 --> 00:25:41.327 And then every few years I do tests. 470 00:25:42.530 --> 00:25:50.295 We've been testing soil organic matter in a few different parts of the farm over time and those parameters improve, 471 00:25:50.397 --> 00:25:51.116 but slowly, 472 00:25:51.436 --> 00:25:51.616 right? 473 00:25:51.678 --> 00:25:57.077 These are heavy clay soils so they are very nutrient rich to begin with. 474 00:25:59.061 --> 00:26:04.748 And so that I've seen and just the ability of the soils. 475 00:26:05.260 --> 00:26:11.024 to respond to lots of rain or periods of drought, 476 00:26:11.125 --> 00:26:11.387 right? 477 00:26:11.547 --> 00:26:12.789 When I first took over, 478 00:26:12.926 --> 00:26:13.168 you know, 479 00:26:13.169 --> 00:26:16.211 I think I mentioned earlier there was a drought in 2017. 480 00:26:16.774 --> 00:26:18.172 The soils had only been, 481 00:26:18.555 --> 00:26:18.813 you know, 482 00:26:19.336 --> 00:26:21.821 I started the organic transition in 2016, 483 00:26:21.836 --> 00:26:25.961 so it had only been a year of crop rotation and cover cropping, 484 00:26:26.774 --> 00:26:30.164 and the soils really suffered from that drought, 485 00:26:30.305 --> 00:26:30.571 right? 486 00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:31.602 We do have... 487 00:26:31.760 --> 00:26:46.938 we have had drier periods in the past couple years and there's there's more resilience in the soils and like I said we do the soil testing every few years yeah okay amazing any other 488 00:26:47.118 --> 00:26:59.180 like big plans for the future things that you you want to try that you're quite excited about yeah oh yeah of course well the ducks is a big one yeah but then one of the projects that 489 00:26:59.649 --> 00:27:00.289 I'm you know 490 00:27:00.492 --> 00:27:20.995 participating in and hopefully will get funded is around more full-scale climate you know carbon emissions and and climate you know related emissions uh monitoring right so that we can really start to put more um quantify better what our practice how our practices impact um 491 00:27:21.213 --> 00:27:28.276 carbon the carbon cycle essentially um and then from a farm business perspective one of the um 492 00:27:28.704 --> 00:27:32.524 I'm hoping to open a farm store in the next year or two. 493 00:27:33.206 --> 00:27:34.604 We didn't really talk about, 494 00:27:34.925 --> 00:27:36.065 and that's totally fine, 495 00:27:37.866 --> 00:27:38.726 the workshops, 496 00:27:38.749 --> 00:27:39.444 the tourism, 497 00:27:39.866 --> 00:27:42.210 the educational component of the farm, 498 00:27:42.226 --> 00:27:44.624 which is a really important part of what we do, 499 00:27:44.827 --> 00:27:55.796 but how the public interacts with what we're doing is the next step in that process is really a place for people to buy farm products and learn about what we do. 500 00:27:56.249 --> 00:27:57.046 So those are some of that. 501 00:27:57.192 --> 00:27:58.373 projects on the horizon. 502 00:28:00.193 --> 00:28:01.691 This is the end of part two. 503 00:28:02.172 --> 00:28:03.812 Thank you so much for listening until the end. 504 00:28:04.414 --> 00:28:06.136 If you'd like to support me and my work, 505 00:28:06.137 --> 00:28:12.457 you can actually do that in just a few seconds by clicking on the deep seat page and clicking the follow or subscribe button. 506 00:28:12.933 --> 00:28:15.730 It only takes a few seconds and it makes a huge difference for me. 507 00:28:15.777 --> 00:28:23.261 So thank you so much in advance and see you tomorrow for part three for the last part of this awesome interview with Ariane. 508 00:28:28.612 --> 00:28:29.658 Bye.