WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.568 --> 00:00:10.135 We went to schools or university and there were people like teaching something and people learning something. 2 00:00:10.819 --> 00:00:15.100 I think we need to reframe this idea of school. 3 00:00:15.358 --> 00:00:21.272 I think of agroecology as fight for autonomy and fight for life. 4 00:00:22.444 --> 00:00:24.522 Welcome back to the Deep Seed podcast. 5 00:00:25.209 --> 00:00:25.647 Last week, 6 00:00:25.678 --> 00:00:28.709 I had an amazing conversation with Massimiliano Solano. 7 00:00:29.060 --> 00:00:32.784 the president of a farming cooperative located in Sicily called 8 00:00:33.126 --> 00:00:33.767 Valdibella. 9 00:00:34.704 --> 00:00:38.048 It was the first episode of a mini-series about Valdibella, 10 00:00:38.470 --> 00:00:39.407 and today's episode, 11 00:00:39.688 --> 00:00:41.352 the one you're listening to right now, 12 00:00:41.852 --> 00:00:44.071 is episode two of that mini-series. 13 00:00:44.938 --> 00:00:47.352 This time I'm talking to Carlotta Ebreo. 14 00:00:48.040 --> 00:00:49.806 She's a rural sociologist, 15 00:00:49.915 --> 00:00:53.743 and actually the very first sociologist I'm interviewing on the podcast. 16 00:00:54.181 --> 00:00:56.587 I feel like it's been a bit of a blind spot for me so far, 17 00:00:56.727 --> 00:00:56.868 and... 18 00:00:57.172 --> 00:00:57.912 After this interview, 19 00:00:58.133 --> 00:01:01.892 I am really keen to explore this angle more in the near future. 20 00:01:03.334 --> 00:01:08.056 The conversation is centered around the Valdibela School of Agroecology. 21 00:01:08.635 --> 00:01:12.338 This school was created by the cooperative to bring together farmers, 22 00:01:12.697 --> 00:01:16.853 experts and community members around the topic of agroecology. 23 00:01:17.822 --> 00:01:22.635 They have a really cool approach as they redefine what a school can look like. 24 00:01:23.291 --> 00:01:23.572 here 25 00:01:24.200 --> 00:01:27.083 Everyone is both a teacher and a student. 26 00:01:27.664 --> 00:01:32.466 Everyone brings their own knowledge to the table coming from a different expertise, 27 00:01:32.732 --> 00:01:34.193 a different life experience, 28 00:01:34.248 --> 00:01:35.669 farming experience and so on. 29 00:01:35.794 --> 00:01:36.990 And together, 30 00:01:37.451 --> 00:01:39.279 it allows them to have a stronger, 31 00:01:39.513 --> 00:01:43.216 more holistic approach to teaching agroecology and helping farmers. 32 00:01:44.044 --> 00:01:44.998 Really interesting stuff. 33 00:01:45.404 --> 00:01:48.623 Carlotta is great and I'm sure you will enjoy this conversation. 34 00:01:49.966 --> 00:01:52.701 This episode was made in partnership with Soil Capital, 35 00:01:53.396 --> 00:01:54.037 I am your host, 36 00:01:54.337 --> 00:01:54.797 Raphael, 37 00:01:55.479 --> 00:01:57.081 and this is the Deep Seat Podcast. 38 00:02:06.190 --> 00:02:07.190 I'm Carlotta Ebreu. 39 00:02:08.010 --> 00:02:14.620 I grew up in Palermo and I live nearby in the mountain in a national park called Manunia. 40 00:02:15.370 --> 00:02:17.807 I'm trained as a rural sociologist, 41 00:02:17.995 --> 00:02:21.089 but I've been always working in agroecology. 42 00:02:21.732 --> 00:02:22.832 My role in the 43 00:02:23.533 --> 00:02:24.292 Valdi Bella, 44 00:02:24.712 --> 00:02:27.273 Scuola Pratica di Agroecologia di Valdi Bella, 45 00:02:27.913 --> 00:02:35.495 is I'm part of the team and I'm taking care especially of the social and political aspects of agroecology, 46 00:02:35.917 --> 00:02:43.613 creating a connection between what is food production and what is community production and social change. 47 00:02:44.644 --> 00:02:44.910 Great. 48 00:02:45.160 --> 00:02:45.753 You mentioned the 49 00:02:46.113 --> 00:02:47.253 School of Agroecology. 50 00:02:48.081 --> 00:02:49.472 Could you tell us more about this? 51 00:02:50.175 --> 00:02:50.300 La 52 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:53.724 Scuola Pratica di Agroecologia di Val di Bella, 53 00:02:53.863 --> 00:02:56.947 so the Val di Bella Agroecology Practical School, 54 00:02:57.505 --> 00:03:09.763 it's a project that started some years ago and the idea is having a school that from farmer to farmer and putting together different figures like specialists, 55 00:03:09.779 --> 00:03:10.576 technicians, 56 00:03:10.857 --> 00:03:11.685 farmers, 57 00:03:11.966 --> 00:03:18.435 but also people working in advocacy in different communities work together in a 58 00:03:18.824 --> 00:03:24.307 training and education projects that support the transition to agroecology for farmers, 59 00:03:24.729 --> 00:03:25.991 but also the support, 60 00:03:26.210 --> 00:03:33.956 the transition to agroecology to technicians that could help farmers and work together with farmers in this part. 61 00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:34.643 Okay, 62 00:03:34.698 --> 00:03:42.050 so there's a desire to transition to agroecology from the farmers within the cooperative here in the region, 63 00:03:42.503 --> 00:03:46.128 but it's hard to get the knowledge across and make sure that everyone has the... 64 00:03:46.724 --> 00:03:48.825 latest up-to-date science and knowledge, 65 00:03:49.204 --> 00:03:50.344 including the technicians, 66 00:03:50.364 --> 00:03:51.723 including the people working on the farms. 67 00:03:51.747 --> 00:03:52.364 Is that it? 68 00:03:53.786 --> 00:03:53.985 Yeah, 69 00:03:55.563 --> 00:03:56.063 what we think, 70 00:03:56.064 --> 00:04:03.415 what we think our consideration of agroecology is that agroecology wants to make a big change in the concept of dependency. 71 00:04:04.055 --> 00:04:07.883 Dependency is not just dependency to the market. 72 00:04:08.383 --> 00:04:15.196 It's also dependency to the knowledge system or the idea of what is knowledge and what is innovation. 73 00:04:15.790 --> 00:04:15.915 So... 74 00:04:16.412 --> 00:04:27.524 What we need is that the knowledge is contextual based and it's really linked to what are the needs of people and it has any cultural significance. 75 00:04:27.907 --> 00:04:31.469 So this looking for autonomy for people, 76 00:04:31.844 --> 00:04:39.258 it's also related to which kind of knowledge and which kind of innovation we can manage together as community, 77 00:04:39.571 --> 00:04:44.133 taking care of agroecology and bringing practice and practicing agroecology. 78 00:04:45.444 --> 00:05:02.688 it's hard to get the knowledge but sometimes it's also hard to value the knowledge and so one of the main goals of agroecology and also of our agroecological school is to value local knowledge also from different farming community but 79 00:05:02.781 --> 00:05:12.672 at the same time is to find approaches and methodologies that put together scientific knowledge expertise knowledge farmers knowledge techniques, 80 00:05:12.735 --> 00:05:13.391 and knowledge. 81 00:05:13.453 --> 00:05:14.891 And so we've been 82 00:05:15.224 --> 00:05:25.258 trained in a way that we went to schools or university and there were people like teaching something and people learning something. 83 00:05:25.953 --> 00:05:35.070 I think we need to reframe this idea of school and this is why we call it practical school because we start from a context, 84 00:05:35.148 --> 00:05:44.367 we start from community and we try to identify in which way different knowledge can collaborate together in an in an horizontal way. 85 00:05:44.804 --> 00:05:49.065 to create the knowledge we really need for being autonomous, 86 00:05:49.166 --> 00:05:53.225 for really taking care of the land and the community we want to take care of too. 87 00:05:53.944 --> 00:05:54.123 Okay, 88 00:05:54.225 --> 00:05:54.530 great. 89 00:05:54.545 --> 00:06:00.108 So there's all of this pool of knowledge going around the region with different experts, 90 00:06:00.123 --> 00:06:00.983 different farmers, 91 00:06:01.045 --> 00:06:04.514 different practitioners who all gather experiences of the land, 92 00:06:04.905 --> 00:06:05.827 scientific knowledge, 93 00:06:06.233 --> 00:06:10.623 and everyone has their own little piece of the total puzzle. 94 00:06:10.655 --> 00:06:12.452 But by coming together as one hub, 95 00:06:12.832 --> 00:06:14.716 where we can exchange that knowledge between you, 96 00:06:15.297 --> 00:06:18.982 you have this more holistic approach and vision of agroecology. 97 00:06:20.384 --> 00:06:22.265 the correct way to say. 98 00:06:22.266 --> 00:06:22.404 Yeah, 99 00:06:22.405 --> 00:06:27.544 I think like we want to be agroecology as being a practice of farming, 100 00:06:27.966 --> 00:06:31.829 but also a social and political movement and also a science. 101 00:06:31.923 --> 00:06:34.665 And so we need to put together these three levels. 102 00:06:35.048 --> 00:06:38.665 So we need to make these three levels dialogue. 103 00:06:38.947 --> 00:06:40.212 This is one of the issues. 104 00:06:40.603 --> 00:06:46.165 So we need also to rethinking how the way we dialogue. 105 00:06:46.312 --> 00:06:49.976 to be able to understand each other and to value each other. 106 00:06:50.476 --> 00:06:51.737 And so this is, 107 00:06:51.776 --> 00:06:52.499 we always say, 108 00:06:52.757 --> 00:06:55.222 agroecology and agroecological transition, 109 00:06:55.362 --> 00:06:57.042 it's a holistic part. 110 00:06:57.542 --> 00:06:59.167 But making holism, 111 00:07:01.065 --> 00:07:09.714 it's not something that happens by chance and we really need to renovate the way we build bridges between people, 112 00:07:09.776 --> 00:07:11.370 between kind of expertise. 113 00:07:11.761 --> 00:07:13.042 And this is one of the... 114 00:07:13.968 --> 00:07:18.994 One of the challenges of agroecology also as a pedagogic challenge, 115 00:07:19.494 --> 00:07:25.303 we put together at the same level these different knowledge to make this holistic change. 116 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:25.842 Okay. 117 00:07:26.482 --> 00:07:28.100 And practically speaking, 118 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:30.092 how does that happen here in Vall d'Iberra? 119 00:07:30.170 --> 00:07:32.545 How did you start the school, 120 00:07:32.842 --> 00:07:34.170 bring together the teacher, 121 00:07:34.310 --> 00:07:35.310 the different farmers? 122 00:07:35.685 --> 00:07:36.529 What does it look like, 123 00:07:36.748 --> 00:07:37.998 this holistic approach? 124 00:07:38.514 --> 00:07:41.154 What we normally do is we 125 00:07:42.716 --> 00:07:45.778 We start both from the needs of the cooperative members, 126 00:07:46.418 --> 00:07:50.594 but also from what we see the needs of the agrarian challenge that 127 00:07:51.555 --> 00:07:53.555 Sicilian environment is facing. 128 00:07:54.235 --> 00:08:02.985 And also because all the team of the agroecology school is in relation with different farmers network and farmers in Sicily. 129 00:08:03.438 --> 00:08:09.485 So we use this relation to dialogue and identify the topics of the school. 130 00:08:09.936 --> 00:08:10.997 At the same time, 131 00:08:11.317 --> 00:08:14.180 normally during the trainings, 132 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:16.543 there are different trainers, 133 00:08:17.485 --> 00:08:22.708 both comes from the technical world and the academic world and the farmers world, 134 00:08:23.129 --> 00:08:27.512 and we have both on-field activities, 135 00:08:28.075 --> 00:08:30.231 project transition activities, 136 00:08:30.372 --> 00:08:31.575 so very practical, 137 00:08:32.043 --> 00:08:37.247 and also we try to bring the theoretical aspect into practical aspect. 138 00:08:37.660 --> 00:08:40.224 And so there are parts of giving space, 139 00:08:40.243 --> 00:08:42.044 facilitating space of dialogue, 140 00:08:42.505 --> 00:08:53.884 where all participants can really put into a critical view what they are practicing and what they think they are their knowledge into the knowledge we are discussing. 141 00:08:53.931 --> 00:08:56.274 So they are like circle of discussion, 142 00:08:56.352 --> 00:08:57.259 for example, 143 00:08:58.024 --> 00:09:06.181 case studies that farmers bring about how they manage their farm and how they manage their farm project as a community project. 144 00:09:06.500 --> 00:09:10.623 and we discuss starting from the case study farmers bring. 145 00:09:11.283 --> 00:09:11.486 Okay, 146 00:09:11.525 --> 00:09:12.084 very interesting. 147 00:09:13.568 --> 00:09:13.807 So yeah, 148 00:09:13.986 --> 00:09:18.568 you would have for example a farmer coming with their own case and explaining their challenges, 149 00:09:18.693 --> 00:09:19.529 their realities, 150 00:09:19.951 --> 00:09:21.475 and then you have other farmers, 151 00:09:21.476 --> 00:09:35.608 you have the community and you have the experts present there and everyone's contributing to a conversation about how to overcome these challenges and it's an open and respectful discussion about this which is helpful for the farmer themselves. 152 00:09:36.132 --> 00:09:40.376 It's helpful for the experts to understand the reality of farmers and for other farmers there, 153 00:09:40.377 --> 00:09:40.716 I guess, 154 00:09:40.817 --> 00:09:43.157 who then can learn from that discussion as well, 155 00:09:43.298 --> 00:09:43.501 right? 156 00:09:44.157 --> 00:09:44.321 Yeah, 157 00:09:44.322 --> 00:09:51.204 I think one of the goals of the training is really to work together on a common vocabulary, 158 00:09:51.790 --> 00:09:58.657 to make everybody in a comfortable position to speak about his or her own knowledge, 159 00:09:59.470 --> 00:10:01.595 he or her brings into the table. 160 00:10:02.032 --> 00:10:04.157 So starting from often from the 161 00:10:04.648 --> 00:10:26.134 the principle for example of water management or the principle of market disintermediation we try to find a common vocabulary in the first part of the training that helps people to identify the knowledge the experience the expertise they are bringing into that vocabulary so we are able to putting 162 00:10:26.384 --> 00:10:33.478 staying together in a common then working table to bring our knowledge and experience and to being able to be 163 00:10:34.196 --> 00:10:36.838 listened also by people and understood. 164 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:42.602 So there are like facilitated spaces that support this horizontal change, 165 00:10:42.688 --> 00:10:45.063 that support this respectful change, 166 00:10:45.868 --> 00:10:48.852 exchange as one of the principles we need to bring. 167 00:10:49.313 --> 00:10:52.579 And then we also use this different support. 168 00:10:52.719 --> 00:10:56.204 So we also support people to bring, 169 00:10:56.250 --> 00:10:57.157 for example, 170 00:10:57.657 --> 00:11:01.797 photo bases or video or other kind of material that 171 00:11:02.224 --> 00:11:05.107 can help each other to understand what we are saying. 172 00:11:06.230 --> 00:11:09.753 And also in many practical spaces when we do, 173 00:11:09.871 --> 00:11:10.589 for example, 174 00:11:10.628 --> 00:11:13.652 the project exercise for a farm, 175 00:11:14.097 --> 00:11:18.941 there are really practical experiences where people can really bring what they know. 176 00:11:19.003 --> 00:11:19.769 So discussing, 177 00:11:19.785 --> 00:11:20.316 for example, 178 00:11:21.192 --> 00:11:25.852 We have been doing a training here in Massimiliano's farm, 179 00:11:26.012 --> 00:11:27.934 Massimiliano and his family farms, 180 00:11:28.293 --> 00:11:32.555 and we have been working here about water management and key lines. 181 00:11:33.016 --> 00:11:45.055 So you see a group of people divided in working group that really from difference like animal husbandry people and people coming from farming experience and agronomist, 182 00:11:45.102 --> 00:11:45.243 etc. 183 00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:48.993 They're working on different topic and goal about the... 184 00:11:49.300 --> 00:12:05.118 palm transition and so in common discussion and facilitated for having a respectful exchange great um one last question maybe if you could share one important message what would you pick 185 00:12:07.283 --> 00:12:15.970 i think as agroecology as fight for autonomy and fight for life and it's 186 00:12:16.192 --> 00:12:17.233 For this reason, 187 00:12:17.452 --> 00:12:25.976 it is very essential that no technical transition can be taught without a change in power relations. 188 00:12:26.335 --> 00:12:33.382 So we need to rethink all the learning and education systems for the agroecology transition, 189 00:12:33.757 --> 00:12:37.757 but also the work and labour systems for the agroecology transition. 190 00:12:38.163 --> 00:12:42.663 Because without these changes and without autonomy in the market, 191 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:44.585 there will be no... 192 00:12:45.104 --> 00:12:56.297 technical transition that will be enough for changing and transforming this power injustice from where the agri-food system is based and we want to change. 193 00:12:57.399 --> 00:12:57.876 Fantastic. 194 00:12:58.501 --> 00:12:59.141 Thank you very much. 195 00:12:59.462 --> 00:12:59.837 Thank you. 196 00:13:08.227 --> 00:13:10.352 Thank you so much for listening to this episode. 197 00:13:10.633 --> 00:13:11.305 Until the end, 198 00:13:11.477 --> 00:13:12.196 I really hope you... 199 00:13:12.564 --> 00:13:13.165 enjoyed it. 200 00:13:14.025 --> 00:13:15.787 If you haven't had a chance to do that yet, 201 00:13:16.068 --> 00:13:18.328 please subscribe to The Deep Seed. 202 00:13:19.172 --> 00:13:25.656 It makes a huge difference for me and helps me continue this work of bringing stories of regenerative pioneers to your ears. 203 00:13:26.336 --> 00:13:27.140 It's really simple. 204 00:13:27.359 --> 00:13:28.656 It only takes five seconds. 205 00:13:29.078 --> 00:13:34.031 All you got to do is click on The Deep Seed page and click on the subscribe or follow button. 206 00:13:35.343 --> 00:13:39.047 Just a quick word about the official partner of The Deep Seed podcast, 207 00:13:39.390 --> 00:13:40.047 Sol Capital. 208 00:13:40.875 --> 00:13:42.109 Sol Capital is a company that 209 00:13:42.308 --> 00:13:49.896 accelerates the transition to regenerative agriculture by financially rewarding farmers who improve things like soil health and biodiversity. 210 00:13:50.853 --> 00:13:55.017 Thank you for listening and see you next week for episode three of the Val di Bella series.