WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.884 --> 00:00:04.084 Hello! 2 00:00:04.725 --> 00:00:06.085 Passionate about sustainability, 3 00:00:06.226 --> 00:00:07.087 energy and climate? 4 00:00:07.667 --> 00:00:08.550 You're in the right place. 5 00:00:08.890 --> 00:00:09.929 Welcome to Energetik. 6 00:00:10.531 --> 00:00:18.460 I'm Maureen Cornelis and together we will engage with people who dedicate their lives to climate justice and making a just energy transition happen. 7 00:00:19.179 --> 00:00:20.382 They may be activists, 8 00:00:20.585 --> 00:00:21.226 scientists, 9 00:00:21.585 --> 00:00:24.757 policy makers or other enthusiasts just like you. 10 00:00:25.491 --> 00:00:31.554 Let their life stories and insights inspire you to build a better future for people and the planet. 11 00:00:34.712 --> 00:00:35.673 Today we are going to meet 12 00:00:36.093 --> 00:00:36.795 Shana Gallagher, 13 00:00:36.994 --> 00:00:41.980 the Dynamic Net Zero Engagement Manager at the prestigious British Standards Institution, 14 00:00:42.121 --> 00:00:42.683 BSI. 15 00:00:43.199 --> 00:00:43.699 With Shana, 16 00:00:44.160 --> 00:00:47.027 passion meets purpose in the fight against climate change. 17 00:00:47.488 --> 00:00:50.965 She stands at the forefront of a groundbreaking coalition bringing together 18 00:00:51.761 --> 00:00:53.933 ISO, the UN Race to Zero campaign, 19 00:00:54.136 --> 00:00:55.574 and the UNFCCC 20 00:00:56.277 --> 00:00:57.496 Global Innovation Hub. 21 00:00:57.730 --> 00:01:03.246 She leads the charge in corporate engagement and the widespread adoption of the ISO Net Zero Guidelines. 22 00:01:03.800 --> 00:01:04.381 Her mission, 23 00:01:04.621 --> 00:01:05.201 in a nutshell, 24 00:01:05.261 --> 00:01:06.342 is to forge credible, 25 00:01:06.502 --> 00:01:11.209 ambitious net-zero strategies that significantly slash private sector emissions. 26 00:01:11.928 --> 00:01:12.365 In short, 27 00:01:12.553 --> 00:01:15.795 she's committed to setting the right benchmarks for climate action. 28 00:01:16.029 --> 00:01:17.615 Let's dive into Shanna's journey. 29 00:01:18.037 --> 00:01:18.232 Shanna, 30 00:01:18.357 --> 00:01:19.576 welcome to Energetic. 31 00:01:20.474 --> 00:01:21.740 Thank you so much for having me. 32 00:01:22.771 --> 00:01:23.146 Thank you, 33 00:01:23.178 --> 00:01:23.412 Shanna. 34 00:01:23.881 --> 00:01:24.006 So, 35 00:01:24.146 --> 00:01:24.381 Shanna, 36 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:32.849 what sparked your interest and led you to become deeply involved in climate advocacy somehow in the formulation of net-zero strategies? 37 00:01:34.260 --> 00:01:36.102 It is a very long story, 38 00:01:36.161 --> 00:01:38.585 so I will do my best to keep it short. 39 00:01:38.726 --> 00:01:41.148 Thank you so much again for having me on today. 40 00:01:42.171 --> 00:01:43.648 I was very fortunate, 41 00:01:44.046 --> 00:01:48.132 as so many people who are deeply passionate about the climate crisis are, 42 00:01:48.296 --> 00:01:57.515 to grow up in places and environments where I was able to spend a lot of time outdoors and in nature and specifically by the ocean. 43 00:01:57.656 --> 00:02:02.890 And I was a big swimmer growing up and had a lot of love for marine life. 44 00:02:03.109 --> 00:02:03.421 And... 45 00:02:03.948 --> 00:02:07.591 When I was nine years old at a birthday party on the beach, 46 00:02:07.751 --> 00:02:15.923 I have a very vivid memory of looking out at the sunlight glistening on the waves and admiring how beautiful the view was, 47 00:02:16.477 --> 00:02:24.915 only to realize after several minutes that what I was really seeing was thousands of dead fish floating to the surface and reflecting the sunlight, 48 00:02:25.071 --> 00:02:27.634 not just the sunlight glistening off of the waves. 49 00:02:28.165 --> 00:02:31.899 And that was the first time at a very early age that I really understood. 50 00:02:32.652 --> 00:02:43.283 that human activity could harm the natural ecosystems that I felt so strongly that it was then my duty to protect. 51 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:55.494 And so that very formative early experience led to more realizations of the role that humans are playing in altering and changing our planet and our climate. 52 00:02:55.635 --> 00:02:58.697 And there have been many iterations of what 53 00:02:59.212 --> 00:03:01.693 That has meant for me in terms of my impact, 54 00:03:01.773 --> 00:03:02.532 but ultimately, 55 00:03:03.573 --> 00:03:04.812 over the course of my career, 56 00:03:04.835 --> 00:03:11.937 it became increasingly clear to me that the climate crisis is in fact a political problem, 57 00:03:12.054 --> 00:03:15.851 not a data problem or a social problem. 58 00:03:16.101 --> 00:03:17.741 And that previously, 59 00:03:18.241 --> 00:03:19.913 the biggest role that I could play, 60 00:03:20.320 --> 00:03:23.132 you may be able to tell from the sound of my voice that I'm American, 61 00:03:23.616 --> 00:03:26.023 was in driving political change. 62 00:03:26.340 --> 00:03:28.861 political will for action on climate in the United States. 63 00:03:28.881 --> 00:03:31.519 So for the past seven or eight years of my career, 64 00:03:31.722 --> 00:03:33.902 that is the work that I had been doing. 65 00:03:34.961 --> 00:03:42.320 And I worked for candidates and for campaigns that had very strong pro-environment, 66 00:03:42.742 --> 00:03:44.476 anti-climate change platforms. 67 00:03:44.961 --> 00:03:45.961 But ultimately, 68 00:03:46.320 --> 00:03:50.726 we certainly don't need to get into the upcoming election in the United States on this podcast. 69 00:03:50.742 --> 00:03:51.445 but ultimately 70 00:03:52.351 --> 00:03:55.242 I determined that actually leveraging 71 00:03:55.528 --> 00:04:03.894 political systems was not the best and most efficient way to make change given the time frame that we have to tackle the climate crisis. 72 00:04:03.996 --> 00:04:08.300 And so after about seven years working in politics in the U.S., 73 00:04:09.300 --> 00:04:12.441 I made a decision to move over to the private sector, 74 00:04:12.504 --> 00:04:18.097 which I believe has a greater potential to reduce emissions within, 75 00:04:18.238 --> 00:04:18.488 again, 76 00:04:18.550 --> 00:04:20.269 the very short time frame that we have. 77 00:04:20.738 --> 00:04:22.097 And I'm very proud to say that I've 78 00:04:22.340 --> 00:04:25.183 always made career decisions based on answering the question, 79 00:04:25.322 --> 00:04:31.209 what can I do to have the single greatest impact in reducing emissions and tackling the climate crisis? 80 00:04:31.428 --> 00:04:35.717 And I fundamentally believe that the work that we're doing at BSI, 81 00:04:35.771 --> 00:04:37.232 the British Standards Institution, 82 00:04:37.373 --> 00:04:45.209 to help develop the world's first ever formal certifiable net zero standard is the answer right now. 83 00:04:45.381 --> 00:04:47.849 And so that is how I came to 84 00:04:48.209 --> 00:04:50.834 BSI and to the world of standards, 85 00:04:50.865 --> 00:04:51.631 which is generally... 86 00:04:52.140 --> 00:04:54.812 somewhat boring and wonky and behind the scenes, 87 00:04:54.892 --> 00:04:55.956 but again, 88 00:04:56.177 --> 00:04:58.544 is a crucial lever that 89 00:04:59.016 --> 00:05:04.660 we can activate in order to scale and accelerate the transition and ultimately save the world. 90 00:05:04.781 --> 00:05:12.047 So that is my story and why I'm so excited to help your listeners understand what the role of standards is today. 91 00:05:13.031 --> 00:05:14.055 That's incredible. 92 00:05:14.250 --> 00:05:14.649 And I mean, 93 00:05:14.945 --> 00:05:18.352 I don't think that we ever had such a compelling story to start with. 94 00:05:18.617 --> 00:05:19.852 So thank you so much, 95 00:05:19.853 --> 00:05:20.211 Janelle. 96 00:05:20.336 --> 00:05:26.461 And I must say that I totally relate with the love for water and for marine animals as well. 97 00:05:27.461 --> 00:05:43.653 uh people who know me know that i'm i have like whales over my place but that's really like i mean we all need the ways to to start with and and i mean that's also such an interesting shift you kind of made from 98 00:05:44.324 --> 00:05:55.809 let's say the political sphere to uh the private sector sphere because many uh at least in europe there are still a lot of people who are a little bit kind of uh who have 99 00:05:55.972 --> 00:06:00.416 kind of cold feet regarding the private sector possibility of action. 100 00:06:00.517 --> 00:06:02.697 But as I said in the introduction, 101 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:10.803 somehow you and the role of ISO is to set the right benchmarks to kind of foster their action. 102 00:06:11.264 --> 00:06:15.709 So can you dig a little bit deeper into what those standards are for? 103 00:06:16.037 --> 00:06:16.678 And actually, 104 00:06:17.209 --> 00:06:18.818 what is the story of this, 105 00:06:19.115 --> 00:06:20.021 the organizations, 106 00:06:20.100 --> 00:06:22.865 because there are several for standardization? 107 00:06:23.787 --> 00:06:24.303 Absolutely. 108 00:06:24.548 --> 00:06:25.089 First of all, 109 00:06:25.269 --> 00:06:26.990 I feel very compelled to say, 110 00:06:27.050 --> 00:06:29.011 because we haven't talked about this before, 111 00:06:29.031 --> 00:06:29.293 Maureen, 112 00:06:29.294 --> 00:06:30.996 that I'm also obsessed with whales. 113 00:06:31.355 --> 00:06:32.418 I have a whale bracelet. 114 00:06:32.437 --> 00:06:33.699 I have a whale tail tattoo. 115 00:06:33.855 --> 00:06:36.261 So we are great minds thinking alike. 116 00:06:36.379 --> 00:06:39.683 Whales are majestic and very motivating for both of us. 117 00:06:39.840 --> 00:06:40.800 That's very funny. 118 00:06:41.285 --> 00:06:42.347 So yes, 119 00:06:42.582 --> 00:06:45.707 what is the role of ISO and the history? 120 00:06:46.972 --> 00:06:47.613 Very proudly, 121 00:06:47.754 --> 00:06:49.175 I would love to tell you, 122 00:06:49.597 --> 00:06:52.441 as BSI likes to talk about often, 123 00:06:52.472 --> 00:06:52.972 that actually 124 00:06:53.496 --> 00:07:05.935 BSI is the oldest and largest national standards body of the 170 standards bodies that are members and participants within the ISO system. 125 00:07:06.498 --> 00:07:10.037 And so the precursor organization that became BSI, 126 00:07:10.099 --> 00:07:11.677 the British Standards Institution, 127 00:07:12.115 --> 00:07:14.255 was formed in 1901. 128 00:07:14.256 --> 00:07:19.537 So we've been around for a very long time providing standards, 129 00:07:19.568 --> 00:07:22.849 which are essentially just guidance and... 130 00:07:23.520 --> 00:07:24.081 rules, 131 00:07:24.281 --> 00:07:25.401 voluntary rules, 132 00:07:25.482 --> 00:07:38.271 for how industry should proceed in designing and creating and implementing goods and services in a way that will be most efficient and beneficial for society. 133 00:07:39.138 --> 00:07:43.833 So BSI is the UK's national standards body, 134 00:07:44.083 --> 00:07:49.224 and we are the UK national body or member of ISO, 135 00:07:49.349 --> 00:07:52.474 which is the International Standards Organization. 136 00:07:53.132 --> 00:07:57.216 I often describe ISO as the new end of standards bodies. 137 00:07:57.255 --> 00:07:59.458 That's how your listeners should think about it. 138 00:07:59.516 --> 00:08:02.157 So basically every country in the world, 139 00:08:02.180 --> 00:08:02.923 for the most part, 140 00:08:03.001 --> 00:08:06.126 that participates has a national standards body. 141 00:08:06.243 --> 00:08:08.110 The exception is the United States, 142 00:08:08.485 --> 00:08:10.548 which has lots of different standards bodies, 143 00:08:10.563 --> 00:08:12.751 but they're all represented within ANSI. 144 00:08:12.891 --> 00:08:15.188 So that's de facto the U.S. 145 00:08:15.266 --> 00:08:16.188 national standards body. 146 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:17.641 In every other case, 147 00:08:17.782 --> 00:08:20.735 a country will have just one national standards body. 148 00:08:21.136 --> 00:08:29.416 and they all liaise with and talk to and negotiate with each other and develop standards within the international standards system, 149 00:08:29.596 --> 00:08:30.362 namely ISO. 150 00:08:30.955 --> 00:08:35.698 So that is the structure and the role of standards. 151 00:08:35.721 --> 00:08:41.705 There are tens of thousands of standards around the world at both the national and the international level. 152 00:08:42.096 --> 00:08:50.299 The role of standards is to provide a set of guidance and definition for what good looks like for 153 00:08:50.504 --> 00:08:53.307 any given product or service or sector. 154 00:08:54.008 --> 00:08:59.330 And so when I said earlier that this can be quite boring and behind the scenes, 155 00:08:59.916 --> 00:09:04.721 we often describe standards as the fabric of the real economy. 156 00:09:05.182 --> 00:09:15.768 So there are tens of thousands of standards at work and at play every single day that already are the foundation of a lot of the... 157 00:09:16.188 --> 00:09:19.692 trust and accountability and verification in the market. 158 00:09:19.791 --> 00:09:20.713 So for example, 159 00:09:21.174 --> 00:09:21.393 yeah, 160 00:09:21.394 --> 00:09:22.315 the sheet of paper, 161 00:09:22.393 --> 00:09:22.975 for instance, 162 00:09:23.033 --> 00:09:27.275 it's one of those like the things that we can think of like A4, 163 00:09:27.775 --> 00:09:28.643 it's like the same. 164 00:09:29.643 --> 00:09:30.541 It's the same everywhere. 165 00:09:30.619 --> 00:09:30.924 Yes. 166 00:09:31.143 --> 00:09:44.119 And the reason that we also trust the food that we eat and know it's not going to poison us and we know that the laptop we buy is going to work is because standards underpin those products and services. 167 00:09:45.288 --> 00:09:45.528 Again, 168 00:09:45.568 --> 00:09:47.351 they are usually voluntary. 169 00:09:47.431 --> 00:09:49.653 There are some standards that are mandated by law, 170 00:09:49.813 --> 00:10:04.302 but there is more industry buy-in because it helps to achieve credibility and trust in the market when you are abiding by standards and have the certification that comes along with abiding by standards. 171 00:10:04.303 --> 00:10:08.067 So different sectors and industries use standards to different degrees, 172 00:10:08.192 --> 00:10:11.489 but they historically have been quite... 173 00:10:12.106 --> 00:10:14.489 industry and sector specific. 174 00:10:14.970 --> 00:10:21.294 And that is what we are trying to change now with this first ever formal certifiable net zero standard, 175 00:10:21.333 --> 00:10:32.482 because obviously net zero applies to every sector and industry and the entire economy and all of society needs to transition off of fossil fuels and to net zero. 176 00:10:32.982 --> 00:10:37.169 And so that is why leveraging this very powerful, 177 00:10:37.310 --> 00:10:39.654 often behind the scenes infrastructure 178 00:10:39.990 --> 00:11:01.859 of tens of thousands of standards and tens of thousands of people around the world in basically every country whose job it is to develop and then implement and certify against formal standards will provide a level of accountability and trust that is really lacking in the net zero ecosystem and the net zero governance landscape right now. 179 00:11:02.296 --> 00:11:02.452 And 180 00:11:03.077 --> 00:11:07.577 I'm sure many of your listeners will already We know that greenwashing, 181 00:11:07.640 --> 00:11:08.656 which is when. 182 00:11:08.990 --> 00:11:26.336 private sector organizations make claims about their climate action and their net zero action that then are not actually corroborated or based in any real plan is much more easily achievable when there is no clear standard. 183 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:32.711 So we will provide that clear understanding of not only what is a good net zero target, 184 00:11:32.758 --> 00:11:34.993 but what is a good credible plan to achieve it. 185 00:11:35.461 --> 00:11:38.039 And that is the clarity that the... 186 00:11:38.458 --> 00:11:42.463 first ever formal certifiable standard around net zero will bring to the market. 187 00:11:43.143 --> 00:11:57.041 That's super interesting that you bring this issue of greenwashing forward because the European Parliament recently voted in favor of regulation against really greenwashing and against false green claims. 188 00:11:57.557 --> 00:11:59.119 So from what I understand, 189 00:11:59.854 --> 00:12:02.166 let's say that the standards, 190 00:12:02.229 --> 00:12:03.307 international standards, 191 00:12:03.385 --> 00:12:05.760 they are like acting in the background, 192 00:12:06.025 --> 00:12:07.354 whereas regulation, 193 00:12:07.463 --> 00:12:08.072 they would. 194 00:12:08.254 --> 00:12:28.819 give some let's say broader considerations but then the practice it will trickle down to somehow this kind of standards organization to make sure that there are some some taxonomy some way to to talk to each other to make sure that when we talk about something we talk about the same thing we speak the same language we have the same kind of of 195 00:12:28.881 --> 00:12:36.038 understanding of the outcomes of the components as well and that when for instance we talk about i don't know bread 196 00:12:36.690 --> 00:12:40.091 We talk about something that is made with flour and water and salt, 197 00:12:40.350 --> 00:12:46.190 and we are not talking about something that is made with fruit or sugar. 198 00:12:47.050 --> 00:12:47.292 I mean, 199 00:12:47.315 --> 00:12:48.573 there can be sugar in bread, 200 00:12:48.776 --> 00:12:49.214 of course, 201 00:12:49.972 --> 00:12:51.651 but it's not something that is made with, 202 00:12:52.073 --> 00:12:52.370 let's say, 203 00:12:52.979 --> 00:12:53.151 coal. 204 00:12:55.979 --> 00:12:57.761 It's not matching with bread, 205 00:12:57.776 --> 00:12:58.214 for instance. 206 00:12:58.651 --> 00:12:58.870 I mean, 207 00:12:59.714 --> 00:13:05.511 I think it's also something that we kind of tend to forget when we focus a lot on regulation, 208 00:13:05.620 --> 00:13:05.761 that 209 00:13:06.118 --> 00:13:06.318 many, 210 00:13:06.539 --> 00:13:10.901 many things are actually already happening and that you complement each other, 211 00:13:11.163 --> 00:13:14.502 like the standards are complementing regulation somehow. 212 00:13:15.706 --> 00:13:15.948 Yes, 213 00:13:16.049 --> 00:13:27.002 and I would love to just use that example as a segue to talk about the three primary differences between formal certifiable standards. 214 00:13:27.003 --> 00:13:33.971 So those are the standards that are created within the ISO or the BSI system and more voluntary. 215 00:13:35.426 --> 00:13:37.307 The word standards is often used, 216 00:13:37.367 --> 00:13:39.365 but frameworks or initiatives. 217 00:13:39.846 --> 00:13:46.127 And these are the frameworks that have been governing net zero action to date. 218 00:13:46.729 --> 00:13:47.932 And that's because, 219 00:13:47.986 --> 00:13:48.408 again, 220 00:13:48.971 --> 00:13:53.572 there hasn't been a formal certifiable net zero standard yet. 221 00:13:53.994 --> 00:14:00.385 There is something called the ISO net zero guidelines already within the ISO system that I'll speak more about later on. 222 00:14:00.588 --> 00:14:04.025 and these guidelines are part of the foundation that is in place. 223 00:14:04.114 --> 00:14:07.895 forming the development of the first ever formal certifiable net zero standard. 224 00:14:08.616 --> 00:14:10.315 But historically, 225 00:14:10.436 --> 00:14:15.253 for the past five or 10 years of the climate economy really taking shape, 226 00:14:15.995 --> 00:14:26.612 the organizations and frameworks that have been governing net zero action have been primarily led by nonprofit voluntary organizations. 227 00:14:27.143 --> 00:14:31.425 And that is wonderful and important because they've mobilized the private sector. 228 00:14:31.862 --> 00:14:32.034 but 229 00:14:32.282 --> 00:14:33.703 The frameworks and initiatives, 230 00:14:34.023 --> 00:14:34.804 to a certain extent, 231 00:14:34.865 --> 00:14:35.265 I should say, 232 00:14:35.304 --> 00:14:42.172 but the frameworks and initiatives that they have created are different from formal certifiable standards in these three very important ways. 233 00:14:42.211 --> 00:14:44.953 So just to speak to the role of regulation, 234 00:14:45.398 --> 00:14:50.179 there is a very strong precedent for standards, 235 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:51.586 formal certifiable standards, 236 00:14:51.648 --> 00:14:55.820 to inform legislative development in many, 237 00:14:55.898 --> 00:14:56.711 many contexts. 238 00:14:56.742 --> 00:15:00.273 And the reason for that is actually in large part because of... 239 00:15:00.630 --> 00:15:02.214 World Trade Organization law. 240 00:15:02.414 --> 00:15:04.100 So within WTO law, 241 00:15:04.701 --> 00:15:08.768 it is mandated that as a mechanism to reduce barriers to trade. 242 00:15:09.410 --> 00:15:17.694 WTO member countries and policymakers within them have to refer to relevant formal certifiable standards, 243 00:15:17.718 --> 00:15:19.663 which often tend to be ISO standards, 244 00:15:20.077 --> 00:15:25.679 when they are developing policy relevant to that standard and the issue that it touches on. 245 00:15:26.069 --> 00:15:32.866 So from your point of interoperability and streamlining the transition, 246 00:15:33.757 --> 00:15:36.569 getting this net zero standard right is going to inform. 247 00:15:37.074 --> 00:15:42.981 the net zero legislation that inevitably will emerge in countries around the world in a very important, 248 00:15:43.161 --> 00:15:43.841 powerful way. 249 00:15:44.282 --> 00:15:52.009 The two other major differences between formal certifiable standards and voluntary initiatives is the global scope of ISO. 250 00:15:52.110 --> 00:15:57.767 So I mentioned there are 170 different member bodies and countries within ISO. 251 00:15:58.079 --> 00:16:03.626 So that global structure is really going to help scale and accelerate the transition all over the world, 252 00:16:03.657 --> 00:16:04.345 which ultimately 253 00:16:04.786 --> 00:16:05.407 we really need. 254 00:16:05.447 --> 00:16:06.708 This is a global transition. 255 00:16:07.309 --> 00:16:16.901 And then there's also a very powerful and important mechanism and infrastructure called the global quality infrastructure at play. 256 00:16:17.362 --> 00:16:23.526 So national standards bodies and the international standards organization ISO don't operate in a vacuum. 257 00:16:23.557 --> 00:16:27.292 They operate alongside formal assurance bodies. 258 00:16:27.667 --> 00:16:28.385 And so in the UK, 259 00:16:28.635 --> 00:16:29.245 for example, 260 00:16:29.323 --> 00:16:31.417 we have BSI and then we have UCAS. 261 00:16:31.589 --> 00:16:33.495 And that binary relationship it. 262 00:16:33.662 --> 00:16:35.744 with the UK accreditation body, 263 00:16:36.025 --> 00:16:36.525 UCAS, 264 00:16:37.207 --> 00:16:43.609 is the binary relationship that's replicated in basically every ISO member country and at the international level, 265 00:16:44.070 --> 00:16:45.937 where formal standards are developed. 266 00:16:46.375 --> 00:16:50.234 And then folks who work for these accreditation bodies, 267 00:16:50.765 --> 00:17:00.312 their job is to go out and train the auditors of the world who then certify and verify against these standards. 268 00:17:00.687 --> 00:17:03.296 So ISO standards often come with a regular 269 00:17:03.526 --> 00:17:03.866 audit. 270 00:17:04.326 --> 00:17:04.786 And again, 271 00:17:04.986 --> 00:17:12.047 that accountability mechanism is something that is really lacking from the net zero governance landscape right now, 272 00:17:12.109 --> 00:17:16.750 because the voluntary initiatives and the nonprofit organizations that I mentioned, 273 00:17:16.765 --> 00:17:22.593 who've done a wonderful job mobilizing the private sector initially to take on the climate crisis, 274 00:17:23.187 --> 00:17:30.093 do not have the resources or the capacity to be the global governance mechanism for a global transition. 275 00:17:30.390 --> 00:17:32.172 And at the same time, 276 00:17:32.474 --> 00:17:36.418 the global quality infrastructure is designed to do exactly that, 277 00:17:36.656 --> 00:17:40.262 to provide trust and verification in the market. 278 00:17:40.562 --> 00:18:00.383 And so when we can scale and converge and harmonize the really wonderful work that voluntary initiatives like the Science-Based Target Initiative and the Greenhouse Gas Protocol and even ISSB have done to generate these voluntary frameworks for defining various aspects of good 279 00:18:00.523 --> 00:18:01.664 net zero action. 280 00:18:02.078 --> 00:18:05.080 And we can formalize that within a standard, 281 00:18:05.422 --> 00:18:08.385 which will be the first ever formal certifiable standard. 282 00:18:08.846 --> 00:18:19.670 It is going to help scale and accelerate the excellent work that they have started in a way that will provide that accountability and verification that is really lacking right now. 283 00:18:20.029 --> 00:18:20.779 And ultimately, 284 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:29.873 that is what it will take to ensure that the transition is happening quickly and credibly such that we can avoid. 285 00:18:30.054 --> 00:18:34.920 catastrophic climate change and maintain warming to well below two degrees. 286 00:18:35.858 --> 00:18:36.119 Wow, 287 00:18:36.342 --> 00:18:39.186 that's really so interesting because indeed, 288 00:18:39.264 --> 00:18:43.444 when you see the non-profit NGO world, 289 00:18:43.647 --> 00:18:47.311 they often lack the capacity for enforcement. 290 00:18:47.530 --> 00:18:58.983 And it's also something that is always pointed out whenever there is a good regulation coming out that you have this enforcement issue. 291 00:18:59.077 --> 00:18:59.608 and yeah 292 00:18:59.674 --> 00:19:00.615 And many countries, 293 00:19:00.655 --> 00:19:09.966 they don't have enough capacity to go and knock the door of every business and ask if they are actually doing what they should be doing. 294 00:19:10.020 --> 00:19:10.145 So, 295 00:19:10.684 --> 00:19:10.966 I mean, 296 00:19:11.106 --> 00:19:16.536 I wouldn't expect like the quality standards to apply to mom and pop shop, 297 00:19:16.645 --> 00:19:22.317 but somehow they do because they are in direct contact with other organizations who actually have to do it. 298 00:19:22.395 --> 00:19:25.755 So it's really part of an ecosystem that you can, 299 00:19:26.005 --> 00:19:27.114 if I understand correctly, 300 00:19:27.895 --> 00:19:29.020 it makes really 301 00:19:29.650 --> 00:19:36.538 everything a little bit more smooth and reliable and that actually fosters trust as a consumer, 302 00:19:36.557 --> 00:19:37.178 as an end user, 303 00:19:37.198 --> 00:19:38.702 but also as a citizen. 304 00:19:38.999 --> 00:19:39.217 Yes, 305 00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:39.702 exactly. 306 00:19:40.100 --> 00:19:43.882 And that is part of what we'll get, 307 00:19:43.983 --> 00:19:44.421 hopefully, 308 00:19:44.905 --> 00:19:50.967 in terms of consumer understanding of net zero and who is taking credible net zero action. 309 00:19:51.514 --> 00:19:51.874 Again, 310 00:19:52.139 --> 00:19:56.514 when you are abiding by formal certifiable standards, 311 00:19:56.990 --> 00:19:58.474 that means you're certified against them. 312 00:19:58.535 --> 00:20:00.058 That means you quite literally get, 313 00:20:00.318 --> 00:20:00.560 you know, 314 00:20:00.561 --> 00:20:06.874 a certificate or an icon or a label that demonstrates your alignment with. 315 00:20:07.762 --> 00:20:09.562 ISO standards with BSI standards, 316 00:20:09.663 --> 00:20:09.903 you know, 317 00:20:09.983 --> 00:20:11.923 any number of formal standards. 318 00:20:12.423 --> 00:20:16.700 And that is something that consumers can then look for. 319 00:20:17.247 --> 00:20:19.786 And this certifiability, 320 00:20:20.286 --> 00:20:26.950 this checking of the box is something that private sector organizations are really hungering for. 321 00:20:27.403 --> 00:20:33.106 Because one of the problems that is leading to an action on... 322 00:20:33.474 --> 00:20:39.898 the climate crisis is that because the net zero governance landscape is so fragmented and confusing right now, 323 00:20:39.961 --> 00:20:44.922 it's often called the alphabet soup of ESG frameworks and initiatives. 324 00:20:46.125 --> 00:20:50.070 It's very easy to criticize and it's much harder to celebrate. 325 00:20:50.508 --> 00:20:50.789 And so 326 00:20:51.164 --> 00:20:53.320 I should make it very clear to your listeners, 327 00:20:53.836 --> 00:20:54.758 greenwashing is, 328 00:20:55.070 --> 00:20:56.492 it often happens on accident. 329 00:20:56.570 --> 00:20:58.976 It's not always sinister. 330 00:20:59.546 --> 00:21:03.671 or with malintent that private sector or any organization are saying, 331 00:21:04.112 --> 00:21:12.038 let's hoodwink the public and we're going to continue to produce and emit greenhouse gases, 332 00:21:12.280 --> 00:21:14.983 but we'll tell everyone we're doing a phenomenal job. 333 00:21:15.616 --> 00:21:20.147 I would say that that does happen much more consistently within the fossil fuel industry, 334 00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:22.444 but in many other industries, 335 00:21:23.366 --> 00:21:25.178 organizations really want to take action. 336 00:21:25.194 --> 00:21:27.975 They just don't know how because this net zero. 337 00:21:28.406 --> 00:21:32.787 governance landscape of voluntary initiatives is so fragmented and confusing right now. 338 00:21:33.185 --> 00:21:38.529 And so this fear of greenwashing accusations has actually led to something called green hushing, 339 00:21:39.006 --> 00:21:45.545 where organizations are basically not doing anything because they don't want to be criticized. 340 00:21:45.576 --> 00:21:46.889 Or if they are doing something, 341 00:21:47.248 --> 00:21:49.529 they're quite quiet and behind the scenes about it. 342 00:21:49.545 --> 00:21:55.576 So what this means is if we can get a net zero standard right, 343 00:21:55.894 --> 00:22:02.037 that is holistic and credible and includes all of the necessary components of a credible, 344 00:22:02.494 --> 00:22:03.057 effective, 345 00:22:03.135 --> 00:22:03.834 high-impact, 346 00:22:04.014 --> 00:22:08.678 net-zero journey that will actually reduce emissions and facilitate a just transition, 347 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:12.756 then having a check-the-box exercise is a good thing. 348 00:22:13.037 --> 00:22:21.334 The market needs to have a mechanism to understand very clearly and consistently who's doing a good job and who isn't. 349 00:22:21.787 --> 00:22:22.147 And again, 350 00:22:22.225 --> 00:22:25.443 that is something that you rightfully point out is just not. 351 00:22:25.582 --> 00:22:32.070 a facet of the resources and capacity that non-profit organizations have inherently, 352 00:22:32.167 --> 00:22:36.414 but it is the exact function of the quality infrastructure, 353 00:22:36.429 --> 00:22:38.156 the formal international standard system, 354 00:22:38.234 --> 00:22:40.578 and the formal international assurance system. 355 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:41.812 Yeah, 356 00:22:42.125 --> 00:22:49.843 so somehow you act as the sheriff who will just say here or there, 357 00:22:49.890 --> 00:22:52.234 there is something that is not working. 358 00:22:52.265 --> 00:22:52.390 And 359 00:22:53.022 --> 00:22:55.824 I would assume that you also work with consumer organizations, 360 00:22:55.946 --> 00:22:56.965 consumer agencies, 361 00:22:57.227 --> 00:23:04.551 national consumer agencies to kind of work on improvement because I would suppose that those standards, 362 00:23:04.574 --> 00:23:08.059 they need continuous improvement as the world evolves. 363 00:23:08.114 --> 00:23:10.293 And if I'm correct, 364 00:23:11.918 --> 00:23:13.684 I read somewhere that you were... 365 00:23:14.554 --> 00:23:21.002 The ISO was planning on reviewing all of its 24,000 standards to align with the Paris Agreement. 366 00:23:21.041 --> 00:23:23.146 So that's a huge job. 367 00:23:24.662 --> 00:23:27.685 So how do you make sure you stay up to date? 368 00:23:27.927 --> 00:23:37.732 And how does really the work in setting those kind of international benchmarks do work with the multitude of partners you have to deal with? 369 00:23:38.904 --> 00:23:39.060 Yeah, 370 00:23:39.201 --> 00:23:42.966 I'm so glad you brought up that very important. 371 00:23:43.502 --> 00:23:45.544 climate change commitment of ISOs. 372 00:23:46.044 --> 00:23:47.567 It's called the London Declaration, 373 00:23:47.587 --> 00:23:48.646 or it was originally. 374 00:23:49.267 --> 00:23:52.712 And what's important to keep in mind here in terms of, 375 00:23:53.009 --> 00:23:53.173 yeah, 376 00:23:53.329 --> 00:23:54.970 not just the ISO net zero standard, 377 00:23:55.032 --> 00:23:58.735 but changing all of the standards to align with Paris climate science, 378 00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:00.306 which is what ISO is committed to, 379 00:24:00.384 --> 00:24:02.743 as you pointed out through this London Declaration, 380 00:24:02.899 --> 00:24:03.915 is once again, 381 00:24:04.024 --> 00:24:08.149 if you agree that standards are the fabric of the real economy, 382 00:24:08.243 --> 00:24:12.306 tens of thousands of standards underpin the real economy in basically every. 383 00:24:12.982 --> 00:24:15.984 geography in every sector to varying degrees, 384 00:24:16.406 --> 00:24:20.550 and you also agree that the entire real economy needs to transition to net zero, 385 00:24:20.750 --> 00:24:24.957 which we do in order to protect the one planet that we have, 386 00:24:25.511 --> 00:24:37.699 then you would also agree that not only do we need a net zero standard that will facilitate the transition in a very clear way in terms of the process for organizations to achieving net zero, 387 00:24:37.808 --> 00:24:41.496 but we also need every single other standard that already exists. 388 00:24:41.762 --> 00:24:43.444 to be aligned with the transition. 389 00:24:43.483 --> 00:24:51.108 So that is exactly the process that the London Declaration has embarked upon updating all of ISO standards to be aligned with Paris Climate Science. 390 00:24:51.554 --> 00:25:08.968 And that process combined with developing the first ever formal certifiable net zero standard will really help to activate and leverage this system that we've been talking about for the transition and to ensure that the economy can credibly 391 00:25:09.800 --> 00:25:12.323 achieve net zero by 2050 or sooner. 392 00:25:12.823 --> 00:25:14.703 And so the question you're essentially asking is, 393 00:25:14.825 --> 00:25:15.645 is how does this work? 394 00:25:16.246 --> 00:25:19.750 And the role of standards bodies, 395 00:25:19.907 --> 00:25:22.813 formal national and international standards bodies, 396 00:25:23.735 --> 00:25:27.493 is to once again converge and harmonize best practice. 397 00:25:27.930 --> 00:25:28.586 So we, 398 00:25:29.477 --> 00:25:30.227 and by we, 399 00:25:30.414 --> 00:25:34.149 I mean folks who work for national standards bodies or international standards bodies, 400 00:25:34.164 --> 00:25:34.711 there is no, 401 00:25:35.258 --> 00:25:36.493 No one person makes up. 402 00:25:36.572 --> 00:25:37.093 this system. 403 00:25:37.133 --> 00:25:38.794 This is a consensus-based system, 404 00:25:38.874 --> 00:25:51.110 but we view our role as converging and harmonizing the best practice that has often already been developed in the market or by non-profit initiatives in the case of net zero. 405 00:25:51.766 --> 00:25:54.126 And so the way that the 406 00:25:54.532 --> 00:25:56.766 ISO net zero standard will be developed, 407 00:25:56.798 --> 00:25:57.376 for example, 408 00:25:57.454 --> 00:25:59.751 is through ISO's Climate Change Committee. 409 00:26:00.376 --> 00:26:01.188 And once again, 410 00:26:01.251 --> 00:26:03.516 these committees and the entire system, 411 00:26:03.595 --> 00:26:05.516 they operate sort of like the UN. 412 00:26:05.704 --> 00:26:05.813 So... 413 00:26:06.604 --> 00:26:14.692 The way ISO standards are developed is that every country that participates has a vote on the relevant ISO committee. 414 00:26:14.693 --> 00:26:15.357 So in this case, 415 00:26:15.358 --> 00:26:16.857 the ISO Climate Change Committee, 416 00:26:16.896 --> 00:26:18.052 which is technically called 417 00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:19.958 ISO TC 207. 418 00:26:20.755 --> 00:26:25.966 And all of these countries will come together and represent their country interests, 419 00:26:25.982 --> 00:26:35.950 but also the industry and issue experts who make up those national standards bodies and those national committees who are then. 420 00:26:36.888 --> 00:26:47.501 using best practice that already exists in the market and the needs of their members and their constituents to develop standards. 421 00:26:47.876 --> 00:26:49.461 Can you share an example, 422 00:26:50.399 --> 00:26:55.751 like something really that you've worked on and that has successfully moved to the next phase? 423 00:26:56.563 --> 00:26:56.688 Well, 424 00:26:56.704 --> 00:27:05.376 I think the best example is what is happening now with the conversion of the ISO net zero guidelines into the 425 00:27:05.748 --> 00:27:09.852 formal certifiable net zero standard that we've been dancing around. 426 00:27:09.910 --> 00:27:13.656 So the guidelines are not yet a formal certifiable standard, 427 00:27:13.676 --> 00:27:17.020 but they were developed within the ISO system. 428 00:27:17.543 --> 00:27:18.238 So again, 429 00:27:18.981 --> 00:27:20.082 consensus-based, 430 00:27:20.223 --> 00:27:28.371 over 1,200 stakeholders from over 100 countries participated in this six-month process where you can imagine, 431 00:27:28.606 --> 00:27:32.981 if anyone who's listening has seen videos of the UNFCCC negotiations, 432 00:27:32.996 --> 00:27:33.621 for example. 433 00:27:34.408 --> 00:27:36.090 These meetings did not happen in person, 434 00:27:36.149 --> 00:27:41.796 but you can imagine 1,200 stakeholders on an online platform joining Zoom calls, 435 00:27:41.854 --> 00:27:51.679 contributing to and then deliberating about the components of a credible net zero strategy and what that includes, 436 00:27:51.741 --> 00:27:55.007 which ended up informing the ISO net zero guidelines, 437 00:27:55.054 --> 00:27:59.538 which are the first deliverable within the ISO framework that not only define net zero, 438 00:28:00.116 --> 00:28:02.819 but define a credible path to achieve it. 439 00:28:02.897 --> 00:28:03.069 which 440 00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:06.620 includes the seven steps of net zero action. 441 00:28:07.021 --> 00:28:08.280 So those are prepare, 442 00:28:08.542 --> 00:28:08.921 measure, 443 00:28:09.023 --> 00:28:09.503 target, 444 00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:10.202 reduce, 445 00:28:10.581 --> 00:28:11.183 removals, 446 00:28:11.300 --> 00:28:11.745 report, 447 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:12.480 and impact. 448 00:28:13.198 --> 00:28:15.566 And now these ISO net zero guidelines, 449 00:28:15.605 --> 00:28:18.003 which were published and launched at COP27, 450 00:28:19.120 --> 00:28:22.831 are being converted into a net zero standard. 451 00:28:23.081 --> 00:28:24.878 And so the way that will work is that again, 452 00:28:25.050 --> 00:28:26.206 ISO's Climate Change Committee, 453 00:28:26.238 --> 00:28:31.925 which has representatives from all of the member countries and it will meet on a regular basis. 454 00:28:32.308 --> 00:28:37.173 to convert the guidelines into a formal certifiable standard. 455 00:28:37.693 --> 00:28:47.119 And the other organizations or stakeholders that can participate in that process are international nonprofit organizations, 456 00:28:47.462 --> 00:28:59.431 which are joining ISO's Climate Change Committee in order to help ensure that the ultimate standard has the expertise and perspective. 457 00:28:59.712 --> 00:29:04.078 that they have spent the past many years developing and honing. 458 00:29:04.136 --> 00:29:04.257 So, 459 00:29:04.297 --> 00:29:04.836 for example, 460 00:29:04.855 --> 00:29:08.402 a lot of the voluntary initiatives that I mentioned, 461 00:29:09.058 --> 00:29:10.300 the Greenhouse Gas Protocol, 462 00:29:10.340 --> 00:29:10.941 for example, 463 00:29:11.082 --> 00:29:11.480 CDP, 464 00:29:12.105 --> 00:29:13.543 the Carbon Disclosure Project, 465 00:29:13.988 --> 00:29:14.886 have joined 466 00:29:15.511 --> 00:29:25.574 ISO's Climate Change Committee as what is called liaison organizations in order to ensure that the best practice that they've developed is embedded in the ultimate net zero standard. 467 00:29:25.575 --> 00:29:25.699 So, 468 00:29:25.824 --> 00:29:26.246 once again, 469 00:29:26.652 --> 00:29:29.215 the role of standards is not to recreate the wheel. 470 00:29:29.592 --> 00:29:35.316 It's not to place any additional burden on organizations or private sector actors. 471 00:29:35.418 --> 00:29:51.695 It's to converge and harmonize the fragmented and often disparate landscape of voluntary frameworks in one place so that it's very clear for industry and for organizations what having a credible net zero strategy looks like. 472 00:29:52.834 --> 00:29:53.836 When you were talking, 473 00:29:53.935 --> 00:29:56.158 I didn't mind the director d'orchestre, 474 00:29:56.277 --> 00:29:57.519 the chef d'orchestre, 475 00:29:57.840 --> 00:29:59.441 the person who guides an orchestra, 476 00:30:02.266 --> 00:30:02.906 the conductor, 477 00:30:03.101 --> 00:30:04.586 I think you say that in English? 478 00:30:04.587 --> 00:30:04.789 Yes, 479 00:30:05.023 --> 00:30:05.250 yeah. 480 00:30:05.570 --> 00:30:05.726 Yeah, 481 00:30:05.766 --> 00:30:12.695 the conductor for the various instruments who actually play the same melody and it sounds very much like that. 482 00:30:12.820 --> 00:30:13.836 Exactly. 483 00:30:14.354 --> 00:30:14.895 Yeah, 484 00:30:14.935 --> 00:30:19.080 I was at Co-op in Dubai and I found it really pretty fascinating, 485 00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:20.619 but also totally overwhelming, 486 00:30:20.639 --> 00:30:22.580 the quantity of people who are attending. 487 00:30:22.619 --> 00:30:22.744 And 488 00:30:24.166 --> 00:30:30.072 I must say that I totally admire the capacity of organizing a potential chaos. 489 00:30:30.190 --> 00:30:30.393 Also, 490 00:30:30.424 --> 00:30:30.690 because 491 00:30:32.112 --> 00:30:40.080 I would imagine that you need a lot of translators and interpreters to make sure that everybody speaks the same language and agrees on certain rules. 492 00:30:40.112 --> 00:30:42.143 and how does the like the 493 00:30:42.454 --> 00:30:44.295 decision-making work at the end of the day. 494 00:30:44.397 --> 00:30:44.516 And 495 00:30:45.198 --> 00:30:46.698 I guess that's such a, 496 00:30:47.280 --> 00:30:47.557 I mean, 497 00:30:47.698 --> 00:30:49.760 I'm discovering along with the listeners, 498 00:30:49.940 --> 00:30:50.303 I think. 499 00:30:51.143 --> 00:30:53.706 So how does that harmonization, 500 00:30:54.245 --> 00:30:54.987 how does that, 501 00:30:55.870 --> 00:30:56.151 let's say, 502 00:30:56.385 --> 00:30:57.487 construction of the melody, 503 00:30:57.666 --> 00:30:59.088 how does it work in practice? 504 00:30:59.307 --> 00:30:59.604 Yes, 505 00:30:59.776 --> 00:30:59.885 no, 506 00:31:00.151 --> 00:31:00.588 absolutely. 507 00:31:00.589 --> 00:31:02.073 That's a really good metaphor. 508 00:31:02.213 --> 00:31:03.995 Thank you for raising it. 509 00:31:04.182 --> 00:31:06.104 And it can get messy. 510 00:31:06.323 --> 00:31:09.213 I'm sure you can imagine the process 511 00:31:09.546 --> 00:31:14.731 with those 1,200 stakeholders that I mentioned for developing the ISO net zero guidelines, 512 00:31:15.754 --> 00:31:22.418 tears were shed a non-zero number of times by frustrated people trying to agree and find alignment. 513 00:31:23.121 --> 00:31:23.778 But ultimately, 514 00:31:23.863 --> 00:31:24.199 again, 515 00:31:24.317 --> 00:31:29.004 that is the real value of the ISO system. 516 00:31:29.098 --> 00:31:31.192 And why standards are so trusted, 517 00:31:31.223 --> 00:31:33.426 it's because they are consensus-based. 518 00:31:33.535 --> 00:31:35.317 So unlike the UN, 519 00:31:35.395 --> 00:31:38.817 where agreements need to be unanimously agreed upon. 520 00:31:39.698 --> 00:31:41.200 ISO standards need 80% 521 00:31:42.321 --> 00:31:46.385 agreement in order to be formalized and finalized. 522 00:31:46.463 --> 00:31:49.870 So the way it works is that every member country has a vote, 523 00:31:50.612 --> 00:31:52.627 and the vote happens, 524 00:31:52.791 --> 00:31:53.409 and 80% 525 00:31:54.291 --> 00:32:00.752 agreement will allow the standard to be formally adopted and finalized, 526 00:32:00.815 --> 00:32:03.159 and therefore the market to start using it. 527 00:32:03.627 --> 00:32:07.221 So it is a transition in its own right. 528 00:32:07.918 --> 00:32:08.919 Having this system, 529 00:32:09.020 --> 00:32:14.303 which over the past many decades has happened usually in person, 530 00:32:14.506 --> 00:32:25.150 moving to online and the facilitation of standards committees happening by the committee managers and the experts that they convene, 531 00:32:25.916 --> 00:32:26.197 again, 532 00:32:26.838 --> 00:32:28.682 is changing in its own right. 533 00:32:28.760 --> 00:32:28.979 But 534 00:32:29.807 --> 00:32:32.541 I'm sure all of us have been on many 535 00:32:32.900 --> 00:32:37.229 Zoom calls these days and can understand how a project. 536 00:32:37.814 --> 00:32:41.917 could come together from various stakeholders all over the world. 537 00:32:41.937 --> 00:32:44.902 The translation element is certainly difficult. 538 00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:51.746 We do have real-time translation that happens for most meetings at this point. 539 00:32:51.925 --> 00:32:52.167 And 540 00:32:52.792 --> 00:32:59.878 ISO resources are all translated into six languages by default. 541 00:33:00.816 --> 00:33:04.425 Any standard will be available in six languages. 542 00:33:04.582 --> 00:33:05.863 I believe it's English, 543 00:33:06.035 --> 00:33:06.457 French. 544 00:33:07.042 --> 00:33:07.923 Chinese, 545 00:33:08.604 --> 00:33:09.204 Russian, 546 00:33:09.505 --> 00:33:10.305 Japanese, 547 00:33:10.405 --> 00:33:12.868 and I am forgetting the sixth one, 548 00:33:12.887 --> 00:33:13.747 which is embarrassing. 549 00:33:13.748 --> 00:33:14.891 You should certainly go. 550 00:33:15.614 --> 00:33:16.614 Did I not say Spanish? 551 00:33:17.012 --> 00:33:17.130 Yeah, 552 00:33:17.231 --> 00:33:17.934 definitely Spanish. 553 00:33:18.356 --> 00:33:18.856 But if you go, 554 00:33:19.075 --> 00:33:19.653 if you're a listener, 555 00:33:19.692 --> 00:33:21.520 go to iso.org slash net zero. 556 00:33:21.973 --> 00:33:27.364 That is where the ISO net zero guidelines can be downloaded for free in any of those six languages. 557 00:33:27.536 --> 00:33:35.130 And it is just a sometimes messy process of time zone and language coordination, 558 00:33:35.286 --> 00:33:35.989 but ultimately... 559 00:33:36.358 --> 00:33:42.063 It has worked so far and will continue to work for the purposes of developing, 560 00:33:42.403 --> 00:33:42.684 again, 561 00:33:42.723 --> 00:33:50.696 the first ever formal certifiable net zero standard to provide that clarity and demystification of credible net zero action that we so urgently need. 562 00:33:51.789 --> 00:33:59.102 So if a business or a business owner who is listening to this podcast wants to implement this kind of standards, 563 00:33:59.555 --> 00:34:01.586 like net zero standards within the organization, 564 00:34:02.086 --> 00:34:02.742 what should they do? 565 00:34:04.430 --> 00:34:05.414 So glad you asked. 566 00:34:05.826 --> 00:34:08.068 And I just said the answer, 567 00:34:08.148 --> 00:34:09.330 but I will say it again now. 568 00:34:09.910 --> 00:34:16.937 The ISO net zero guidelines are free to use and download at iso.org slash net zero. 569 00:34:17.617 --> 00:34:29.585 And they are already being used by organizations around the world to create either from scratch or to enhance credible net zero strategies. 570 00:34:30.007 --> 00:34:32.257 And that is my job at BSI. 571 00:34:32.507 --> 00:34:32.867 I work. 572 00:34:32.978 --> 00:34:44.250 with companies that want to use the guidelines to create and enhance and develop their own net zero journey in line with global best practice. 573 00:34:44.687 --> 00:34:45.828 So for example, 574 00:34:45.953 --> 00:34:55.726 General Motors is a company that we work with very closely that has chosen to adopt the guidelines to develop their own net zero strategy 575 00:34:57.665 --> 00:35:01.870 This is a tool that you absolutely can and should use now, 576 00:35:02.350 --> 00:35:04.772 even though it's not yet a formal certifiable standard. 577 00:35:04.792 --> 00:35:09.377 And the reason to use it now is because you can de-risk your net zero strategy. 578 00:35:09.815 --> 00:35:12.557 We know that what's included in the guidelines, 579 00:35:12.620 --> 00:35:15.956 these seven steps of net zero action, 580 00:35:16.346 --> 00:35:17.018 preparing, 581 00:35:17.471 --> 00:35:18.018 measuring, 582 00:35:18.518 --> 00:35:19.034 targeting, 583 00:35:19.049 --> 00:35:20.315 so setting a net zero target, 584 00:35:20.424 --> 00:35:20.971 reducing, 585 00:35:21.034 --> 00:35:23.409 so actually mitigating and reducing emissions, 586 00:35:23.456 --> 00:35:23.706 which is, 587 00:35:23.909 --> 00:35:24.377 of course, 588 00:35:24.378 --> 00:35:24.877 in many ways, 589 00:35:24.878 --> 00:35:26.096 the most important part. 590 00:35:26.297 --> 00:35:27.398 deep decarbonization, 591 00:35:27.979 --> 00:35:29.741 what that means for removals, 592 00:35:30.062 --> 00:35:31.382 how often to report, 593 00:35:31.921 --> 00:35:36.109 and the impact or systems approach that is required to deliver net zero. 594 00:35:37.468 --> 00:35:43.398 These are all aspects of a credible net zero strategy that even though a formal certifiable standard doesn't exist yet, 595 00:35:43.616 --> 00:35:44.476 we know that it will. 596 00:35:44.601 --> 00:35:48.882 So if you adopt the guidelines and use them to create your strategy now, 597 00:35:48.913 --> 00:35:50.241 you'll be ahead of the curve. 598 00:35:50.648 --> 00:35:53.038 You can really make a name for yourself and prevent. 599 00:35:53.589 --> 00:35:59.594 any future consequences for not aligning with the standard once it is out in the market. 600 00:36:00.117 --> 00:36:01.117 And once again, 601 00:36:01.196 --> 00:36:08.000 you can help to demonstrate to other organizations around the world what best practice looks like and what that means for you. 602 00:36:08.461 --> 00:36:11.922 The reality is no organization on earth can credibly say, 603 00:36:12.406 --> 00:36:19.188 I know exactly what every day is going to be looking like between now and 2050 in my pursuit of net zero, 604 00:36:19.781 --> 00:36:21.750 but by building in the... 605 00:36:22.509 --> 00:36:25.872 principles and characteristics of a credible, 606 00:36:26.052 --> 00:36:27.753 holistic net zero strategy, 607 00:36:28.413 --> 00:36:30.515 you can really set your organization, 608 00:36:30.601 --> 00:36:32.499 your business up for success long term. 609 00:36:32.882 --> 00:36:33.421 So yes, 610 00:36:33.476 --> 00:36:34.218 they do exist. 611 00:36:34.359 --> 00:36:37.781 Any organization can use them already for free, 612 00:36:38.242 --> 00:36:40.413 and many organizations around the world are. 613 00:36:40.882 --> 00:36:43.570 And over the next year or two, 614 00:36:44.054 --> 00:36:46.413 as the net zero standard is developed, 615 00:36:46.820 --> 00:36:49.179 and when it is finally launched in public, 616 00:36:50.070 --> 00:36:50.554 you will be. 617 00:36:50.929 --> 00:36:51.430 as I've said, 618 00:36:51.450 --> 00:36:58.177 ahead of the curve and really able to demonstrate the credible high-impact work that you're doing to achieve net zero, 619 00:36:58.556 --> 00:37:08.880 because we know that the ultimate standard will look in large part like the guidelines because they are being used to inform the ultimate standard that's being developed with them as a foundation. 620 00:37:10.224 --> 00:37:16.052 And what would you reply to a business who... 621 00:37:16.385 --> 00:37:19.385 doesn't really want to set up this kind of standards? 622 00:37:19.625 --> 00:37:19.907 I mean, 623 00:37:19.987 --> 00:37:24.065 if you had like the possibility to say whatever you want to do this kind of business, 624 00:37:24.147 --> 00:37:26.045 what would you tell them? 625 00:37:26.991 --> 00:37:38.116 I would say that it is in your best interest to have a net zero strategy because this is the direction the world is going and it's ultimately strategic and beneficial for your company. 626 00:37:39.069 --> 00:37:40.163 You may have heard, 627 00:37:40.209 --> 00:37:42.866 some of your listeners may have heard the term adapt or die, 628 00:37:43.084 --> 00:37:43.288 right? 629 00:37:43.366 --> 00:37:44.647 Survival of the fittest. 630 00:37:44.953 --> 00:37:45.614 In other words, 631 00:37:45.674 --> 00:37:48.315 we know that the world is changing, 632 00:37:48.337 --> 00:37:49.737 the economy is transitioning. 633 00:37:49.878 --> 00:37:52.382 And so if you don't want to be left behind, 634 00:37:52.882 --> 00:37:55.226 then you'll have to transition. 635 00:37:55.483 --> 00:38:00.491 And in order to be relevant in the future economy and a future society, 636 00:38:01.288 --> 00:38:05.413 having a credible net zero strategy is going to be imperative. 637 00:38:05.819 --> 00:38:08.132 It's not an option whether or not you want to do that. 638 00:38:08.194 --> 00:38:08.882 It's a must do. 639 00:38:09.069 --> 00:38:10.194 And so fortunately, 640 00:38:10.257 --> 00:38:13.757 there are tools like the ISO net zero guidelines that demystify Okay. 641 00:38:13.989 --> 00:38:24.180 what a credible net zero journey can and should look like that are available before you will be penalized by the market and by consumers for not abiding by it, 642 00:38:24.195 --> 00:38:26.602 which is going to increasingly happen once again. 643 00:38:27.164 --> 00:38:29.781 This tool becomes a formal certifiable standard. 644 00:38:29.820 --> 00:38:32.211 So I would say it is in your best interest. 645 00:38:32.242 --> 00:38:32.992 It is strategic. 646 00:38:33.133 --> 00:38:33.602 Ultimately, 647 00:38:33.711 --> 00:38:40.383 it will make your business more sustainable and more profitable if you prioritize this sooner rather than later. 648 00:38:40.985 --> 00:38:42.107 Change can be hard. 649 00:38:42.166 --> 00:38:43.827 It does take time and resources, 650 00:38:43.929 --> 00:38:49.230 but it's only going to take more time and resources if you delay action longer. 651 00:38:50.292 --> 00:38:55.761 And that's a very nice way to look back to the elections in the U.S. 652 00:38:55.816 --> 00:38:56.683 because somehow, 653 00:38:57.347 --> 00:38:57.519 well, 654 00:38:57.706 --> 00:39:03.003 I've listened to many podcasts and read a lot of articles saying that whatever happens, 655 00:39:03.909 --> 00:39:09.238 the companies are trying to get ahead and they are really respecting this kind of standards. 656 00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:09.659 and and 657 00:39:09.969 --> 00:39:12.692 That makes me personally very hopeful that, 658 00:39:13.192 --> 00:39:13.451 I mean, 659 00:39:13.893 --> 00:39:17.756 you said that at the beginning that there is so much like, 660 00:39:18.014 --> 00:39:18.334 let's say, 661 00:39:18.998 --> 00:39:21.780 the political processes can be so heavy and lengthy, 662 00:39:21.905 --> 00:39:22.037 etc. 663 00:39:22.420 --> 00:39:23.280 But at the same time, 664 00:39:23.600 --> 00:39:28.092 you have private actors that are stepping in and they just realize that it's better for them. 665 00:39:28.170 --> 00:39:30.311 It's better to be more sustainable. 666 00:39:30.436 --> 00:39:31.670 It's better for their employees. 667 00:39:31.733 --> 00:39:36.514 It's probably better for the other level of the company culture and to really keep on having, 668 00:39:37.436 --> 00:39:38.811 attracting talents and so on. 669 00:39:38.858 --> 00:39:39.545 but it's also bad. 670 00:39:39.669 --> 00:39:39.890 best, 671 00:39:39.930 --> 00:39:40.290 of course, 672 00:39:40.731 --> 00:39:48.202 as a consumer to know that the companies are moving in a certain direction and that somehow sustainability is becoming the norm. 673 00:39:48.944 --> 00:39:50.671 Isn't that what you are aspiring for? 674 00:39:51.389 --> 00:39:51.507 No, 675 00:39:51.686 --> 00:39:52.335 absolutely. 676 00:39:52.530 --> 00:39:54.335 And it's a really good... 677 00:39:55.130 --> 00:40:02.038 way to also bring up another piece of recent legislation or policy that is very relevant to this conversation, 678 00:40:02.117 --> 00:40:05.218 which is the SEC ruling that just came out in the U.S. 679 00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:11.531 that mandates disclosure of emissions and climate action plans. 680 00:40:12.062 --> 00:40:18.468 And the impetus for this mandate and the reason that it's happening within the SEC, 681 00:40:18.671 --> 00:40:20.140 the Securities and Exchange Commission, 682 00:40:20.234 --> 00:40:23.984 is because it's important information for investors to have. 683 00:40:24.342 --> 00:40:41.253 This is the clarity and the information that the market is really grappling with and that investors and consumers will need in order to be well-informed and effective in the market long term. 684 00:40:41.363 --> 00:40:47.800 And that's the good news about the election is that no matter what happens, 685 00:40:48.581 --> 00:40:53.175 the economy can be a more rational actor and should always be. 686 00:40:53.978 --> 00:41:04.120 arguably a more rational actor than voters and then political parties which are still denying climate science. 687 00:41:04.221 --> 00:41:07.221 And let me just take this opportunity as an American to say, 688 00:41:08.080 --> 00:41:08.479 America, 689 00:41:09.401 --> 00:41:10.002 unfortunately, 690 00:41:10.080 --> 00:41:15.237 despite its global power and authority position, 691 00:41:15.284 --> 00:41:21.096 is the only country on earth where a major political party doubts or denies climate science. 692 00:41:21.127 --> 00:41:22.518 And that is absolutely me. 693 00:41:22.626 --> 00:41:23.227 insane. 694 00:41:23.267 --> 00:41:29.233 And we should all be outraged and completely condemn that that is a stance that is acceptable to have. 695 00:41:29.495 --> 00:41:30.315 Very unfortunately, 696 00:41:30.596 --> 00:41:31.698 that is the case. 697 00:41:31.792 --> 00:41:38.901 And so the outcome of the election will be very consequential for the global transition to net zero and action on climate. 698 00:41:39.198 --> 00:41:39.760 But again, 699 00:41:39.776 --> 00:41:44.745 the good news is this climate science is not in doubt in any other country, 700 00:41:44.948 --> 00:41:45.229 really, 701 00:41:45.573 --> 00:41:46.745 in a meaningful way. 702 00:41:47.010 --> 00:41:51.198 And the economy and investors increasingly understand that 703 00:41:51.286 --> 00:41:53.008 this is an inevitable transition. 704 00:41:53.527 --> 00:41:54.189 And when you, 705 00:41:54.389 --> 00:41:54.670 again, 706 00:41:54.769 --> 00:42:01.777 consider that standards are the fabric of the real economy and they are all being updated to align with climate science, 707 00:42:02.137 --> 00:42:04.918 then the economy is going to transition. 708 00:42:05.019 --> 00:42:10.012 So it's really just a question of can we do these updates? 709 00:42:10.027 --> 00:42:11.371 Can we develop this standard? 710 00:42:11.699 --> 00:42:13.449 Can we make these changes fast enough? 711 00:42:13.887 --> 00:42:14.684 And once again, 712 00:42:14.949 --> 00:42:19.918 I will just use this as a call to action for business owners and organizations that are listening right now. 713 00:42:20.274 --> 00:42:22.234 The ISO net zero guidelines already exist. 714 00:42:22.275 --> 00:42:31.414 You can already use tools and frameworks out there that are available for free to create your net zero strategy in a credible, 715 00:42:31.437 --> 00:42:32.195 holistic way. 716 00:42:32.593 --> 00:42:32.961 And again, 717 00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:39.140 it's going to de-risk your business and ultimately be really beneficial for your long-term sustainability and growth. 718 00:42:39.234 --> 00:42:42.796 So it's not reason to be afraid of the election outcome. 719 00:42:42.875 --> 00:42:49.156 It is hopefully reason to be optimistic that the economy is transitioning regardless of what happens in that election. 720 00:42:49.914 --> 00:42:50.555 That's great. 721 00:42:50.715 --> 00:42:51.375 Thank you so much, 722 00:42:51.376 --> 00:42:51.556 Sana. 723 00:42:52.076 --> 00:42:52.377 I mean, 724 00:42:52.858 --> 00:43:02.643 it's also a moment for me to just say that the upcoming episodes will dig a little bit deeper into the practicalities of this kind of tools, 725 00:43:02.908 --> 00:43:03.846 the certifications, 726 00:43:03.885 --> 00:43:05.815 because we're going to get in the next episode, 727 00:43:06.346 --> 00:43:09.940 we're going to get into sustainable clothing. 728 00:43:10.174 --> 00:43:10.908 So it's going to be, 729 00:43:11.143 --> 00:43:12.690 I never touched upon clothing before, 730 00:43:12.799 --> 00:43:17.502 so it's going to be interesting to see how that applies. 731 00:43:17.786 --> 00:43:19.007 how these kind of choices, 732 00:43:19.228 --> 00:43:26.734 the choice you make on an everyday basis can have an impact and what is the journey of the corporations that decide to embark on this journey. 733 00:43:27.273 --> 00:43:30.820 And the following will be really on sustainable finance, 734 00:43:30.835 --> 00:43:32.664 but from the energy community point of view. 735 00:43:32.742 --> 00:43:36.039 So we are really getting through Energetica, 736 00:43:36.164 --> 00:43:38.164 we are getting into these kind of conversations. 737 00:43:38.570 --> 00:43:39.210 And I'm really, 738 00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:39.523 really, 739 00:43:39.632 --> 00:43:46.898 really excited that we had this and really grateful we had this conversation today because I learned so much and now I wonder 740 00:43:47.242 --> 00:43:47.663 learn more. 741 00:43:48.163 --> 00:43:51.905 And I want to see how this kind of platforms do work in practice. 742 00:43:51.928 --> 00:43:53.030 So thank you so much, 743 00:43:53.069 --> 00:43:53.186 Anna. 744 00:43:53.889 --> 00:43:55.452 Thank you again for having me. 745 00:43:55.506 --> 00:44:03.241 I really like to say that standards are the most powerful tool that you've never heard of to scale and accelerate the transition. 746 00:44:03.272 --> 00:44:07.163 So I'm really grateful for the opportunity to help your listeners learn more about it. 747 00:44:07.616 --> 00:44:08.303 And once again, 748 00:44:08.350 --> 00:44:15.194 would encourage folks to go to iso.org slash net zero to see the ISO net zero guidelines for yourself. 749 00:44:15.718 --> 00:44:17.520 and to start taking action today. 750 00:44:18.221 --> 00:44:18.420 Yeah, 751 00:44:18.561 --> 00:44:20.663 and if they have any further questions, 752 00:44:20.664 --> 00:44:22.643 they can offer your offers on LinkedIn. 753 00:44:22.764 --> 00:44:24.487 So they should- I am very much on LinkedIn. 754 00:44:24.706 --> 00:44:24.924 Yes, 755 00:44:25.104 --> 00:44:25.831 Shaina Gallagher, 756 00:44:25.971 --> 00:44:27.291 please connect with me. 757 00:44:27.666 --> 00:44:29.073 I welcome your DMs. 758 00:44:29.471 --> 00:44:32.877 Especially if you're interested in sea and whales. 759 00:44:33.159 --> 00:44:34.174 We love whales here. 760 00:44:34.284 --> 00:44:35.471 We love whales, 761 00:44:35.581 --> 00:44:36.112 exactly. 762 00:44:36.377 --> 00:44:37.440 Preferably humpbacks, 763 00:44:37.502 --> 00:44:38.643 but I don't discriminate. 764 00:44:39.034 --> 00:44:40.487 Any subspecies will do. 765 00:44:42.414 --> 00:44:45.382 Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Energetic. 766 00:44:45.623 --> 00:44:53.502 It's been a pleasure diving deep into the world of sustainability and the just energy transition with some of the most forward-thinking mouths out there. 767 00:44:54.145 --> 00:44:55.046 I'm Maureen Canales, 768 00:44:55.146 --> 00:44:57.928 your host from policy consultancy Next Energy Consumer, 769 00:44:58.307 --> 00:45:01.772 and it's been an incredible journey growing this podcast together with you, 770 00:45:02.151 --> 00:45:04.276 our knowledgeable and passionate listeners. 771 00:45:04.995 --> 00:45:06.237 Since 2021, 772 00:45:06.417 --> 00:45:07.877 we've shared countless stories, 773 00:45:08.042 --> 00:45:08.542 insights, 774 00:45:08.543 --> 00:45:11.706 and ideas over more than 40 episodes, 775 00:45:12.081 --> 00:45:15.252 and it's all thanks to your support and enthusiasm. 776 00:45:15.940 --> 00:45:20.252 If you've enjoyed our journey so far and want to help us keep the conversation going, 777 00:45:20.612 --> 00:45:22.252 why not support us on Patreon? 778 00:45:22.833 --> 00:45:26.114 Every bit helps us bring more inspiring content your way. 779 00:45:26.614 --> 00:45:28.415 Check out the show notes for the link. 780 00:45:29.134 --> 00:45:29.513 And hey, 781 00:45:29.993 --> 00:45:35.657 if you're a part of an organization that shares our passion for a sustainable and inclusive energy future, 782 00:45:36.157 --> 00:45:39.032 we're excited to explore sponsorship opportunities with you. 783 00:45:39.470 --> 00:45:45.532 It's a fantastic way to connect with a dedicated audience and make an even bigger impact together. 784 00:45:46.517 --> 00:45:47.954 Shout out to the fantastic 785 00:45:48.314 --> 00:45:51.017 Igor Mikhailovich from Podcast Media Factory. 786 00:45:51.441 --> 00:45:53.822 for his incredible sound design work, 787 00:45:54.184 --> 00:45:56.608 making every episode a joy to listen to. 788 00:45:57.526 --> 00:45:58.549 If you haven't already, 789 00:45:58.787 --> 00:46:02.248 make sure to subscribe to Energetic on your favorite podcast platform. 790 00:46:02.733 --> 00:46:06.217 And if you think a friend or a colleague could benefit from our episode, 791 00:46:06.600 --> 00:46:08.225 we'd love for you to spread the word. 792 00:46:08.662 --> 00:46:12.865 It helps us grow and keep the energy transition conversation alive. 793 00:46:13.381 --> 00:46:14.662 Sharing is caring. 794 00:46:15.225 --> 00:46:20.365 Follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn to stay engaged and update on all things Energetic. 795 00:46:20.673 --> 00:46:22.555 Thanks once again for lending your ears. 796 00:46:22.714 --> 00:46:28.624 Until next time.