WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.298 --> 00:00:02.005 Safer Chemicals Podcast. 2 00:00:02.748 --> 00:00:04.816 Sound science on harmful chemicals. 3 00:00:09.278 --> 00:00:12.849 Main concern with PFAS relates to their high persistency, 4 00:00:13.271 --> 00:00:17.405 which means that these substances can stay in the environment for a very long time. 5 00:00:17.967 --> 00:00:18.509 In addition, 6 00:00:18.790 --> 00:00:22.082 many of them can negatively affect human health and environment. 7 00:00:22.785 --> 00:00:23.849 If releases continue, 8 00:00:24.291 --> 00:00:28.636 the stock in the environment and exposure to people and the environment will also increase. 9 00:00:29.966 --> 00:00:36.319 The discussions on the universal PFAS restriction are continuing and in September we're aiming to focus on textiles, 10 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:37.000 upholstery, 11 00:00:37.281 --> 00:00:37.601 leather, 12 00:00:37.822 --> 00:00:38.784 apparel and carpets, 13 00:00:38.884 --> 00:00:40.569 that's a single sector that we call TULAC, 14 00:00:41.411 --> 00:00:45.583 on the food contact materials and packaging sector and also on petroleum and mining. 15 00:00:46.385 --> 00:00:47.228 And then after that, 16 00:00:47.749 --> 00:00:50.798 the sectors that we're going to be focusing on are fluorinated gases, 17 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:52.884 transport and construction products. 18 00:00:54.364 --> 00:00:56.407 Welcome to the Safer Chemicals podcast. 19 00:00:56.768 --> 00:00:57.189 I'm Adam, 20 00:00:57.369 --> 00:00:58.090 your host today, 21 00:00:58.330 --> 00:01:00.173 and I'm joined by Roberto Scazzola, 22 00:01:00.273 --> 00:01:01.736 the chair of our Risk Assessment Committee, 23 00:01:02.537 --> 00:01:03.979 as well as Maria Otati, 24 00:01:04.099 --> 00:01:06.443 who chairs our Socioeconomic Analysis Committee. 25 00:01:06.583 --> 00:01:07.164 Hi to you both. 26 00:01:07.624 --> 00:01:07.909 Thank you, 27 00:01:07.929 --> 00:01:08.132 Adam. 28 00:01:08.193 --> 00:01:08.864 Nice to be here. 29 00:01:09.186 --> 00:01:09.960 Very nice to be here, 30 00:01:09.981 --> 00:01:10.124 Adam. 31 00:01:11.625 --> 00:01:16.464 We'll be starting with an update on where the committees are with evaluating the universal PFAS restriction proposal. 32 00:01:17.282 --> 00:01:23.370 We'll also be talking with Roberto about the first discussions around harmonizing the classification and labeling for TALK, 33 00:01:23.751 --> 00:01:27.816 and also the initial steps towards recommending an occupational exposure limit, 34 00:01:27.836 --> 00:01:28.517 so an OEL, 35 00:01:28.878 --> 00:01:30.340 for bisphenol A BPA. 36 00:01:31.560 --> 00:01:31.781 Okay, 37 00:01:31.861 --> 00:01:37.100 let's start with the universal restriction proposal for per-and polyfluoroalkyl substances PFAS. 38 00:01:37.941 --> 00:01:42.559 So this proposal aims to restrict around 10,000 PFAS both in the EU and EEA. 39 00:01:44.060 --> 00:01:50.802 the restriction looks to address their persistent nature as they contaminate water sources and cause toxic accumulation in both people, 40 00:01:50.882 --> 00:01:51.223 animals, 41 00:01:51.323 --> 00:01:52.006 and plants. 42 00:01:53.771 --> 00:01:55.779 So as we've mentioned in our previous episodes, 43 00:01:55.939 --> 00:02:04.096 the committees are currently evaluating the proposal and will carry out their opinion making in batches addressing different PFAS sectors that are potentially impacted. 44 00:02:04.916 --> 00:02:08.076 Can you tell me a bit more about why this approach in batches for this one? 45 00:02:09.380 --> 00:02:09.521 Well, 46 00:02:09.541 --> 00:02:10.876 this is a very wide proposal. 47 00:02:11.076 --> 00:02:12.429 It covers a lot of sectors, 48 00:02:12.449 --> 00:02:13.196 a lot of uses. 49 00:02:13.576 --> 00:02:15.086 And if we don't take them in batches, 50 00:02:15.126 --> 00:02:16.556 it becomes a little bit unmanageable. 51 00:02:16.656 --> 00:02:20.689 So we've decided to put them together in groups and we'll take them, 52 00:02:20.889 --> 00:02:21.170 you know, 53 00:02:21.752 --> 00:02:22.996 a few at a time in each plenary. 54 00:02:23.896 --> 00:02:24.017 Good. 55 00:02:24.097 --> 00:02:26.021 So in your June meetings, 56 00:02:26.503 --> 00:02:31.856 the committee has covered PFAS now specifically in metal plating and also in the manufacture of metal products. 57 00:02:32.376 --> 00:02:33.381 Maybe if we start with you, 58 00:02:33.441 --> 00:02:33.883 Roberto, 59 00:02:34.004 --> 00:02:36.616 what more can you tell us about the discussions you've had in the committee? 60 00:02:38.123 --> 00:02:38.484 Indeed, 61 00:02:38.565 --> 00:02:41.052 we focus first on metal sectors, 62 00:02:41.152 --> 00:02:43.659 both metal manufacturing and metal plating, 63 00:02:43.740 --> 00:02:48.575 but we also reach final conclusions with sectors that were discussed previously, 64 00:02:49.057 --> 00:02:50.705 namely consumer mixtures, 65 00:02:50.846 --> 00:02:52.559 cosmetic products and ski walks. 66 00:02:53.304 --> 00:02:55.892 RAC went through the proposals for sectors, 67 00:02:56.013 --> 00:02:57.758 particularly focusing on volumes, 68 00:02:57.899 --> 00:03:00.208 but also on the related emissions of PFAS, 69 00:03:00.770 --> 00:03:03.955 but also on the measures that are in place to control the emissions. 70 00:03:04.220 --> 00:03:04.521 For instance, 71 00:03:04.541 --> 00:03:13.120 we had a look at the voluntary ban for ski waxes that has been carried out by the Ski International Federation and related effects in terms of emissions. 72 00:03:13.884 --> 00:03:19.412 So all these elements are taken into account to assess whether there is a risk to people or to the environment. 73 00:03:20.320 --> 00:03:23.417 And although some elements are still to be finalized on the waste phase, 74 00:03:23.417 --> 00:03:25.099 I think we made a very good progress. 75 00:03:26.205 --> 00:03:28.777 I also understand that you concluded on the hazards of PFAS, 76 00:03:28.837 --> 00:03:29.380 is that correct? 77 00:03:30.488 --> 00:03:30.689 Yes, 78 00:03:30.750 --> 00:03:30.990 indeed, 79 00:03:31.051 --> 00:03:37.455 hazards are really the starting point for any restriction because we have to look at the intrinsic properties of substances, 80 00:03:37.896 --> 00:03:40.915 whether they can cause harm to people or to the environment. 81 00:03:41.564 --> 00:03:48.600 Then we can look at the emissions and therefore exposure because the risk exists only if there is hazard and there is an exposure. 82 00:03:49.164 --> 00:03:52.523 So a raw conclusion on hazard can be summarized as follows. 83 00:03:52.744 --> 00:03:55.542 The main concern for PFAS is related to 84 00:03:56.112 --> 00:03:58.683 Their ability to stay for a long time into the environment, 85 00:03:58.723 --> 00:04:04.585 so what we call indeed persistency or even very persistent according to the rich criteria. 86 00:04:05.408 --> 00:04:16.085 And this is also logical from the chemistry point of view because there is this exceptionally stable bond between the carbon and the fluorine atoms that makes them very persistent into the environment. 87 00:04:16.996 --> 00:04:18.662 On top of the persistency, 88 00:04:18.723 --> 00:04:21.111 there are also other hazards of concerns. 89 00:04:21.272 --> 00:04:24.966 They relate to the possibility to travel long distances, 90 00:04:25.006 --> 00:04:27.255 but also to affect the global warming potential, 91 00:04:27.295 --> 00:04:29.970 but also adverse effects to human health. 92 00:04:30.372 --> 00:04:34.869 Notably they can be toxic for reproduction or they can even cause cancer in some cases. 93 00:04:35.712 --> 00:04:43.369 All those instances have been looked at and the committee also considered a lot of studies that look into the potential. 94 00:04:44.356 --> 00:04:50.412 pollution even in pristine environment or in very remote areas due to the properties of this group of substances. 95 00:04:51.420 --> 00:04:51.540 So, 96 00:04:51.941 --> 00:04:53.747 if the releases will continue, 97 00:04:54.048 --> 00:05:00.315 the stock into the environment will increase and the same goes into the risk for the people and for the environment. 98 00:05:00.737 --> 00:05:01.079 Therefore, 99 00:05:01.099 --> 00:05:05.950 RAC concluded that the mentioned hazards are sufficient concern to be taken within this process. 100 00:05:06.718 --> 00:05:09.175 I should also mention this is a provisional conclusion. 101 00:05:09.336 --> 00:05:13.512 What does it mean is that if no new elements will be gathered during the process, 102 00:05:14.034 --> 00:05:16.534 the committee will not come back discussing those elements. 103 00:05:16.957 --> 00:05:20.075 I also have to mention that there are some factors. 104 00:05:20.420 --> 00:05:22.888 into the waste phase that will be discussed again, 105 00:05:22.948 --> 00:05:28.395 but I would say there are specific elements that will take only due time by the committee. 106 00:05:29.663 --> 00:05:31.375 You mentioned that you've looked at a lot of studies. 107 00:05:31.556 --> 00:05:35.227 Can you elaborate a little bit more on what kind of studies and where do you get the studies from? 108 00:05:36.588 --> 00:05:40.703 The dossier has been definitely based on the information provided by the dossier submitters, 109 00:05:40.844 --> 00:05:43.978 but we also received very good input in the consultation. 110 00:05:45.244 --> 00:05:47.494 This means that we got additional information, 111 00:05:47.594 --> 00:05:52.375 peer-reviewed scientific studies that had a look into the impacts of those substances, 112 00:05:52.436 --> 00:05:53.922 their presence into the environment, 113 00:05:54.003 --> 00:05:58.982 but also what they can cause in terms of human health or in the damage to the environment. 114 00:05:59.464 --> 00:06:00.006 So definitely, 115 00:06:00.187 --> 00:06:04.264 I think the consultation is an important step into the process. 116 00:06:05.059 --> 00:06:05.340 Thank you, 117 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:05.721 Roberto. 118 00:06:06.584 --> 00:06:07.366 Let's move on to you, 119 00:06:07.406 --> 00:06:07.667 Maria. 120 00:06:07.868 --> 00:06:10.556 What's your recap from the socioeconomic side? 121 00:06:11.571 --> 00:06:11.712 Well, 122 00:06:11.772 --> 00:06:12.598 similarly to RAC, 123 00:06:12.638 --> 00:06:14.028 we also looked at the same sector. 124 00:06:14.188 --> 00:06:17.988 So we started out by looking at metal plating and manufacture of metal products. 125 00:06:18.729 --> 00:06:22.408 We have hard chrome plating and also other types of chrome plating, 126 00:06:22.568 --> 00:06:23.555 decorative chrome plating, 127 00:06:23.596 --> 00:06:25.268 both on metal and all plastics. 128 00:06:26.130 --> 00:06:27.843 Plating with other metals like nickel, 129 00:06:27.883 --> 00:06:28.468 for instance. 130 00:06:29.431 --> 00:06:32.068 And then when we're talking about manufacture of metal products, 131 00:06:32.329 --> 00:06:34.521 we were talking about metal coating, 132 00:06:34.923 --> 00:06:35.848 razor blade coating, 133 00:06:35.968 --> 00:06:37.748 and also solvents for metal cleaning. 134 00:06:38.327 --> 00:06:38.528 Right, 135 00:06:38.528 --> 00:06:40.519 so quite a wide spectrum of things actually. 136 00:06:40.861 --> 00:06:42.690 Quite a lot of different things, 137 00:06:42.750 --> 00:06:47.499 different things that may have different availability of alternatives and therefore different costs and so on. 138 00:06:47.640 --> 00:06:48.223 So you know, 139 00:06:48.384 --> 00:06:51.180 things get quite detailed sometimes when we get into this. 140 00:06:51.180 --> 00:06:51.401 This is, 141 00:06:51.723 --> 00:06:51.965 you know, 142 00:06:51.985 --> 00:06:55.800 what I mentioned earlier about taking it in batches because there is a lot of complexity in here. 143 00:06:55.900 --> 00:07:01.120 Sounds almost like a mini restriction within this whole restriction for the different sectors. 144 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:01.957 So a lot of work. 145 00:07:02.140 --> 00:07:02.344 Exactly. 146 00:07:03.346 --> 00:07:03.470 So, 147 00:07:03.986 --> 00:07:05.329 When we were discussing the sector, 148 00:07:05.329 --> 00:07:12.164 we start out by looking at the availability of safer alternatives to PFAS in these sectors for the different specific uses. 149 00:07:12.284 --> 00:07:15.513 And then that determines what the cost would be of implementing a ban, 150 00:07:15.534 --> 00:07:15.874 of course, 151 00:07:15.874 --> 00:07:19.184 because it's different if there are alternatives ready to go and if there aren't. 152 00:07:19.564 --> 00:07:19.846 It would also, 153 00:07:19.866 --> 00:07:20.107 I guess, 154 00:07:20.389 --> 00:07:21.576 impact on derogations then, 155 00:07:21.777 --> 00:07:22.964 depending on the availability eventually. 156 00:07:23.445 --> 00:07:23.687 Yes, 157 00:07:23.747 --> 00:07:24.110 exactly. 158 00:07:24.151 --> 00:07:24.272 So, 159 00:07:24.413 --> 00:07:24.675 you know, 160 00:07:24.675 --> 00:07:25.684 we consider the benefits. 161 00:07:26.877 --> 00:07:31.412 how many releases would be stopped if we banned the use in a particular sector. 162 00:07:31.833 --> 00:07:33.952 And then we bring it all together by considering, 163 00:07:34.292 --> 00:07:37.892 are derogations needed here to ensure that the restriction is proportionate? 164 00:07:37.912 --> 00:07:42.190 So that's kind of where we bring everything into final conclusion, 165 00:07:42.231 --> 00:07:42.532 let's say. 166 00:07:43.853 --> 00:07:44.636 And then also, 167 00:07:44.897 --> 00:07:45.600 like in RAC, 168 00:07:45.760 --> 00:07:48.732 we went back to the sectors that were on the table in March already. 169 00:07:49.709 --> 00:07:50.190 Then we looked, 170 00:07:50.190 --> 00:07:50.552 of course, 171 00:07:50.552 --> 00:07:51.556 at consumer mixtures, 172 00:07:51.596 --> 00:07:52.800 cosmetics and ski wax. 173 00:07:53.844 --> 00:07:55.997 We had their additional information on the wastage, 174 00:07:56.037 --> 00:07:56.601 for instance, 175 00:07:56.621 --> 00:08:01.664 and also there were some discussions in March that the reporters reconsidered and made some changes. 176 00:08:02.128 --> 00:08:02.672 Sorry to interrupt, 177 00:08:02.692 --> 00:08:04.043 but you mentioned consumer mixtures. 178 00:08:04.164 --> 00:08:07.248 Can you just give a few examples of what kind of mixtures we're talking about? 179 00:08:08.649 --> 00:08:08.769 Well, 180 00:08:08.789 --> 00:08:09.972 there's quite a lot of stuff there, 181 00:08:09.992 --> 00:08:11.476 but to give you a couple of examples, 182 00:08:11.516 --> 00:08:13.662 we're talking about cleaners for glass, 183 00:08:13.862 --> 00:08:14.263 metal, 184 00:08:14.344 --> 00:08:14.885 ceramic, 185 00:08:15.045 --> 00:08:16.028 carpet and upholstery. 186 00:08:16.248 --> 00:08:18.179 We're talking about waxes and polishes, 187 00:08:18.219 --> 00:08:18.803 for instance, 188 00:08:18.843 --> 00:08:19.748 dishwashing products. 189 00:08:20.109 --> 00:08:22.408 So quite a few different small things. 190 00:08:23.289 --> 00:08:25.481 So we are moving forward then with this proposal, 191 00:08:25.944 --> 00:08:26.588 clear to see that. 192 00:08:26.769 --> 00:08:28.288 What's on the agenda for upcoming meetings? 193 00:08:28.388 --> 00:08:29.168 What will you be discussing? 194 00:08:29.288 --> 00:08:32.648 I'm particularly interested in the upcoming sectors then in your batches. 195 00:08:33.558 --> 00:08:33.779 Yeah, 196 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:33.939 well, 197 00:08:33.939 --> 00:08:34.643 in September, 198 00:08:34.804 --> 00:08:36.512 we are talking about the following. 199 00:08:36.653 --> 00:08:39.032 So the first one is what we call internally TULAC. 200 00:08:39.457 --> 00:08:40.292 It's quite a nice name. 201 00:08:40.392 --> 00:08:41.959 So we're talking here about textiles, 202 00:08:42.119 --> 00:08:42.762 upholstery, 203 00:08:43.023 --> 00:08:43.385 leather, 204 00:08:43.585 --> 00:08:44.088 apparel, 205 00:08:44.489 --> 00:08:45.112 and carpets. 206 00:08:46.034 --> 00:08:47.992 Then we have food contact materials and packaging. 207 00:08:48.212 --> 00:08:49.195 So if you remember, 208 00:08:49.235 --> 00:08:54.392 this was one that we covered already a while ago before the consultation had closed. 209 00:08:54.813 --> 00:08:56.292 So now the consultation has closed. 210 00:08:56.392 --> 00:08:58.732 We've got all the information and this is coming back to the committees. 211 00:08:59.593 --> 00:09:02.888 And the final one for September is petroleum and mining. 212 00:09:03.396 --> 00:09:03.528 Right. 213 00:09:03.908 --> 00:09:04.592 And of course, 214 00:09:04.672 --> 00:09:04.873 Adam, 215 00:09:04.933 --> 00:09:09.088 we are dependent on how the five authorities are able to update their initial restriction report. 216 00:09:09.208 --> 00:09:09.329 So, 217 00:09:09.470 --> 00:09:09.711 you know, 218 00:09:09.731 --> 00:09:15.908 they are the ones who are looking at the consultation input and then updating the proposal and that we assess that. 219 00:09:16.028 --> 00:09:17.668 I'll also look ourselves at the comments. 220 00:09:18.270 --> 00:09:18.390 So, 221 00:09:18.411 --> 00:09:19.034 but in any case, 222 00:09:19.054 --> 00:09:21.828 we are confident that we will be able to address these sectors. 223 00:09:22.008 --> 00:09:24.408 We're really learning while we're progressing with the analysis. 224 00:09:25.548 --> 00:09:28.399 So sounds like you have your September meeting cut out for you. 225 00:09:28.379 --> 00:09:29.604 What about beyond September? 226 00:09:30.666 --> 00:09:30.827 Well, 227 00:09:30.827 --> 00:09:34.394 the next sectors that will be discussed were also announced during these plenaries, 228 00:09:34.575 --> 00:09:36.499 and they will be fluorinated gases, 229 00:09:37.020 --> 00:09:39.064 transport and construction products. 230 00:09:39.645 --> 00:09:42.964 So we are committed to keep everyone updated on what's coming next. 231 00:09:43.104 --> 00:09:43.826 We understand that, 232 00:09:43.966 --> 00:09:44.488 for instance, 233 00:09:44.528 --> 00:09:50.604 stakeholders need to be ready to find experts that can come with them to the plenaries and so on. 234 00:09:50.704 --> 00:09:53.564 So it's important that we announce this in advance and we will continue. 235 00:09:53.644 --> 00:09:54.027 Of course, 236 00:09:54.027 --> 00:09:57.184 this is such a wide impact because it's looking at so many different sectors. 237 00:09:57.306 --> 00:09:58.323 So the more time you give. 238 00:09:58.724 --> 00:10:03.064 for people to react the better so transparency yes indeed that's exactly right undertaken 239 00:10:04.016 --> 00:10:04.417 Finally, 240 00:10:04.477 --> 00:10:17.796 I would like to reassure everyone that we are taking every effort to progress the opinion making and we will be delivering these opinions to the Commission in the shortest possible time frame while making sure that the opinions are as high quality as can be. 241 00:10:18.517 --> 00:10:18.738 Okay, 242 00:10:19.522 --> 00:10:20.045 thank you both. 243 00:10:20.226 --> 00:10:22.016 Is there anything else you'd like to highlight still on this? 244 00:10:23.796 --> 00:10:23.977 Well, 245 00:10:24.257 --> 00:10:31.884 I think the final thing I'd like to highlight is that this is a restriction that has had a high interest from our accredited stakeholders in this work. 246 00:10:31.944 --> 00:10:34.587 We've had a lot of people asking to attend and a lot of people, 247 00:10:34.587 --> 00:10:35.007 in fact, 248 00:10:35.187 --> 00:10:36.088 both from industry, 249 00:10:36.249 --> 00:10:40.993 from NGO and other civil society organizations coming to the meeting. 250 00:10:41.013 --> 00:10:43.996 I think it was over 125 different people. 251 00:10:44.637 --> 00:10:44.918 And, 252 00:10:45.419 --> 00:10:45.660 you know, 253 00:10:45.900 --> 00:10:48.607 the contributions that these people are bringing are very important. 254 00:10:48.607 --> 00:10:48.807 You know, 255 00:10:48.787 --> 00:10:52.436 they have scientific and technical expertise in particular sectors. 256 00:10:53.579 --> 00:10:54.504 As we have mentioned, 257 00:10:54.524 --> 00:10:55.912 this is a very wide restriction. 258 00:10:56.352 --> 00:11:00.112 We cannot have specialists in every single one of these sectors, 259 00:11:00.192 --> 00:11:03.732 so we're really relying on the stakeholders to bring that information to us. 260 00:11:04.412 --> 00:11:04.533 So 261 00:11:05.196 --> 00:11:08.432 I would like to just give a reminder that for the sector-specific discussions, 262 00:11:08.613 --> 00:11:14.192 we're only allowing to participate those organizations that have a very specific interest in the sector. 263 00:11:14.312 --> 00:11:15.617 For the more general discussions, 264 00:11:15.657 --> 00:11:19.412 we're a little bit more open to allowing those who... 265 00:11:19.615 --> 00:11:20.444 have signed up for it. 266 00:11:20.564 --> 00:11:22.584 Complex puzzle that needs to be managed. 267 00:11:23.064 --> 00:11:27.144 And I understand that actually you have to be an accredited stakeholder to attend the committee meetings. 268 00:11:27.324 --> 00:11:30.204 So there is a kind of a procedure for that. 269 00:11:30.304 --> 00:11:31.584 You have to apply through our website. 270 00:11:31.704 --> 00:11:35.164 There's certain criteria you have to fulfill and you have to be an umbrella organization, 271 00:11:35.324 --> 00:11:35.786 so to speak, 272 00:11:35.846 --> 00:11:37.615 representing different fields and sectors, 273 00:11:38.157 --> 00:11:41.304 all working at an EU level and representative of their area of competence. 274 00:11:41.567 --> 00:11:42.984 I think that's important to remember. 275 00:11:43.204 --> 00:11:46.098 So if organizations are interested in participating, 276 00:11:46.098 --> 00:11:47.364 they need to check those criteria. 277 00:11:47.755 --> 00:11:48.003 And. 278 00:11:48.692 --> 00:11:48.934 you know, 279 00:11:48.974 --> 00:11:50.404 submit their application in advance. 280 00:11:50.524 --> 00:11:52.844 That's why we're announcing things quite a lot in advance. 281 00:11:53.886 --> 00:11:55.577 And if they fulfill the criteria, 282 00:11:55.597 --> 00:11:59.144 they can become accredited and then request to participate in the meetings. 283 00:12:00.483 --> 00:12:10.520 So next we'll be talking about the Dutch authorities proposing to classify talc as a substance suspected of causing cancer and a substance that causes damage to lungs if inhaled. 284 00:12:11.100 --> 00:12:11.461 Roberta, 285 00:12:11.722 --> 00:12:13.790 talc is quite familiar to many people, 286 00:12:13.851 --> 00:12:14.694 myself included, 287 00:12:14.714 --> 00:12:16.340 so especially those that have children. 288 00:12:17.243 --> 00:12:19.357 It's used in this white baby powder, 289 00:12:19.357 --> 00:12:19.880 is that correct? 290 00:12:21.031 --> 00:12:21.353 Indeed, 291 00:12:21.514 --> 00:12:23.002 among many other uses. 292 00:12:23.264 --> 00:12:30.529 So talc is a naturally occurring material and it's used in pharmaceuticals to help bind or disperse medication, 293 00:12:30.650 --> 00:12:34.002 but also in plastic to improve their mechanical properties, 294 00:12:34.042 --> 00:12:36.591 as a filler or coating pigment, 295 00:12:36.631 --> 00:12:37.374 in paints, 296 00:12:37.534 --> 00:12:38.357 also in ceramics, 297 00:12:38.558 --> 00:12:39.682 even as a food additive. 298 00:12:40.324 --> 00:12:40.786 And of course, 299 00:12:40.987 --> 00:12:48.138 maybe the most well known to the general population is the use in cosmetic products like in baby powders or eye shadow. 300 00:12:49.584 --> 00:12:49.716 So 301 00:12:49.891 --> 00:12:52.088 Quite a broad variety of uses indeed. 302 00:12:52.868 --> 00:12:56.226 It's also interesting to know that there is the involvement of our sister agency, 303 00:12:56.427 --> 00:12:56.688 EFSA, 304 00:12:56.888 --> 00:13:01.168 because indeed there is a use as a food additive and they are also in the process of reviewing it. 305 00:13:01.708 --> 00:13:06.628 So the decision the RAC will take might also have an influence in that specific process. 306 00:13:06.828 --> 00:13:12.428 And we are working together with EFSA to ensure that there is a coordination and alignment. 307 00:13:13.608 --> 00:13:13.749 Okay, 308 00:13:13.749 --> 00:13:16.968 and I understand that the committee talked about the classification proposal, 309 00:13:17.250 --> 00:13:19.004 but didn't yet conclude on an opinion. 310 00:13:19.025 --> 00:13:19.448 Is that right? 311 00:13:20.307 --> 00:13:20.849 That's correct. 312 00:13:20.909 --> 00:13:22.534 I think we are well progressing. 313 00:13:22.634 --> 00:13:25.884 There was a preliminary conclusion on STOT, 314 00:13:26.004 --> 00:13:28.191 so specific target organ toxicity, 315 00:13:28.432 --> 00:13:29.456 repeated exposure, 316 00:13:29.917 --> 00:13:33.508 particularly the committee decided for category 1, 317 00:13:33.688 --> 00:13:37.538 specifying lungs and inhalation are the organs of concern. 318 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:39.303 On carcinogenicity, 319 00:13:39.824 --> 00:13:42.322 we also progress significantly. 320 00:13:42.717 --> 00:13:47.391 I think the committee reached a provisional conclusion that there is some evidence for carcinogenicity. 321 00:13:47.512 --> 00:13:47.854 However, 322 00:13:47.894 --> 00:13:49.360 we are in the middle of the evaluation, 323 00:13:49.460 --> 00:13:51.790 so there is not yet a proposal by the rapporteur. 324 00:13:52.352 --> 00:13:55.651 And we will need a bit more time to look at all the available evidence. 325 00:13:55.872 --> 00:13:58.168 And there is quite a lot out there on this substance. 326 00:13:58.672 --> 00:14:03.190 So we hope to be in the condition to finalize this by the end of the year, 327 00:14:03.230 --> 00:14:03.672 I would say. 328 00:14:04.770 --> 00:14:04.990 Okay. 329 00:14:05.891 --> 00:14:06.072 Now, 330 00:14:06.292 --> 00:14:09.116 just maybe for personal reasons more than anything else. 331 00:14:09.116 --> 00:14:09.236 So, 332 00:14:09.276 --> 00:14:09.537 I mean, 333 00:14:10.138 --> 00:14:11.139 dose makes the poison. 334 00:14:11.259 --> 00:14:11.380 So, 335 00:14:11.500 --> 00:14:16.948 do you foresee that there will be some changes in the levels of talc used in products like baby powder? 336 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:19.571 This is definitely too early to say. 337 00:14:19.732 --> 00:14:23.209 The moment the opinion from the committee will be issued to the Commission, 338 00:14:23.290 --> 00:14:27.730 the Commission with Member States will decide whether an harmonised classification is appropriate. 339 00:14:28.192 --> 00:14:28.815 In such a case, 340 00:14:28.855 --> 00:14:32.410 there might be some automatic consequences in the specific sectors. 341 00:14:32.872 --> 00:14:34.786 So it's definitely too early to predict. 342 00:14:35.592 --> 00:14:36.435 But indeed, 343 00:14:36.496 --> 00:14:40.592 there might be some changes according to the relevant legislation that are applicable. 344 00:14:41.982 --> 00:14:42.182 Right. 345 00:14:42.282 --> 00:14:42.482 Okay. 346 00:14:42.542 --> 00:14:42.663 Well, 347 00:14:42.723 --> 00:14:45.326 looking forward to coming back to this then again in September. 348 00:14:46.287 --> 00:14:46.407 Now, 349 00:14:46.427 --> 00:14:50.092 you also started talks on recommending an occupational exposure limit, 350 00:14:50.112 --> 00:14:50.732 so an OEL, 351 00:14:50.893 --> 00:14:51.834 for bisphenol A. 352 00:14:53.035 --> 00:14:53.376 Firstly, 353 00:14:53.536 --> 00:14:57.781 could you explain what these OELs are and what is the committee's role in them? 354 00:14:58.182 --> 00:14:58.482 Indeed, 355 00:14:58.562 --> 00:15:02.648 that's a relatively new task that has been entrusted to the committee. 356 00:15:03.269 --> 00:15:11.241 So the legislation in EU aims to protect workers from the health risk associated when they are exposed to hazardous substances in the workplace. 357 00:15:11.888 --> 00:15:20.112 OEL stands for Occupational Exposure Limit Values and they are there to establish a safe working environment for workers, 358 00:15:20.172 --> 00:15:22.522 particularly when they are exposed to vapours, 359 00:15:22.663 --> 00:15:25.821 mists or dust related to those specific substances. 360 00:15:26.465 --> 00:15:29.838 There are a number of directives such as the Carcinogens, 361 00:15:29.898 --> 00:15:38.083 Mutagens and Reprotoxins Substances Directive and some others that entrust the European Commission to the possibility to define such values. 362 00:15:38.740 --> 00:15:39.422 And in the past, 363 00:15:39.663 --> 00:15:44.057 those values were based on opinions issued by a committee called SCOIL, 364 00:15:44.518 --> 00:15:45.463 but in the recent years, 365 00:15:45.584 --> 00:15:47.997 this has been entrusted to the Risk Assessment Committee. 366 00:15:48.757 --> 00:15:50.062 Beside OEL values, 367 00:15:50.182 --> 00:15:55.461 RAC may also issue additional recommendations with regard to short-time limit values, 368 00:15:56.063 --> 00:16:00.640 or even so-called notations when there are specific hazards to be taken care of, 369 00:16:00.820 --> 00:16:02.689 such as dermal protection, 370 00:16:02.790 --> 00:16:03.473 use of gloves, 371 00:16:03.594 --> 00:16:04.297 and so forward. 372 00:16:05.041 --> 00:16:05.162 So, 373 00:16:05.463 --> 00:16:06.848 bisphetyl-A particularly then, 374 00:16:06.908 --> 00:16:09.357 so it's a very well-known and regulated substance. 375 00:16:09.437 --> 00:16:11.329 We've all heard about it in some way or another, 376 00:16:11.369 --> 00:16:11.752 I'm sure. 377 00:16:12.557 --> 00:16:15.992 And some uses of it are actually already restricted in the EU under REACH, 378 00:16:16.554 --> 00:16:17.708 the EU's chemical legislation. 379 00:16:18.418 --> 00:16:18.538 So, 380 00:16:18.538 --> 00:16:21.549 it's also on this candidate list of substances of very high concern, 381 00:16:21.790 --> 00:16:24.441 and it has many harmonized classifications, 382 00:16:24.481 --> 00:16:25.164 for example, 383 00:16:25.284 --> 00:16:27.554 causing toxic effects on our ability to reproduce, 384 00:16:27.956 --> 00:16:29.354 as well as serious eye damage. 385 00:16:30.211 --> 00:16:34.004 I understood it also potentially causes respiratory irritation and skin allergies, 386 00:16:34.004 --> 00:16:36.782 so quite a wide spectrum of concerns there. 387 00:16:37.265 --> 00:16:39.334 And now an OEL is in the making, 388 00:16:39.375 --> 00:16:42.236 so what can you share from the committee's first discussions on this one? 389 00:16:42.886 --> 00:16:43.027 Well, 390 00:16:43.067 --> 00:16:43.509 for sure, 391 00:16:43.590 --> 00:16:45.520 this is an interesting piece of work. 392 00:16:46.345 --> 00:16:49.880 Exposure of workers to BPA may occur during its manufacture, 393 00:16:50.061 --> 00:16:50.382 use, 394 00:16:50.402 --> 00:16:51.888 or in the production of polymers, 395 00:16:52.250 --> 00:16:55.344 also in its use as an additive in various applications. 396 00:16:56.285 --> 00:17:01.344 It should also be mentioned that recently other EU agencies reached divergent conclusions on BPA, 397 00:17:01.645 --> 00:17:05.481 particularly in the general population exposure by ingestion. 398 00:17:06.203 --> 00:17:11.278 So this also highlights how sometimes deliberations on regulatory science can be complex. 399 00:17:12.301 --> 00:17:12.823 In any case, 400 00:17:13.124 --> 00:17:16.838 RAC must reach its conclusion in an independent way, 401 00:17:16.899 --> 00:17:17.280 of course, 402 00:17:17.340 --> 00:17:18.910 looking at all available information, 403 00:17:19.111 --> 00:17:20.700 and this is what we intend to do. 404 00:17:21.664 --> 00:17:22.086 Currently, 405 00:17:22.126 --> 00:17:26.921 there is an indicative EU-wide OEL that has been in place since 2017. 406 00:17:27.925 --> 00:17:28.206 However, 407 00:17:28.246 --> 00:17:34.215 this is a non-binding value and now we are working towards a potential mandatory limit if the Commission will decide so. 408 00:17:35.121 --> 00:17:42.655 It's also important to notice that some European and non-European countries establish OEL and short-time limit values at national level. 409 00:17:43.681 --> 00:17:47.101 We aim also to harmonize this and I think this is quite a relevant point. 410 00:17:48.061 --> 00:17:49.004 So where we are, 411 00:17:49.104 --> 00:17:56.110 we had a short exchange last week and we plan to discuss further this in September and hopefully when everything goes well, 412 00:17:56.491 --> 00:18:01.316 we plan to issue a final opinion end of this year or if needed early 2025. 413 00:18:02.381 --> 00:18:05.417 So we will be revisiting this topic again later as well. 414 00:18:06.386 --> 00:18:06.627 Okay, 415 00:18:06.787 --> 00:18:08.909 that's actually all the time we have for today. 416 00:18:08.969 --> 00:18:09.670 So once again, 417 00:18:09.830 --> 00:18:13.493 thank you both for your explanations and key insight into the committee's work. 418 00:18:13.653 --> 00:18:15.075 I'm sure our listeners find it useful. 419 00:18:15.455 --> 00:18:17.217 The next committee meetings will be taking place, 420 00:18:17.277 --> 00:18:18.638 as mentioned throughout the podcast, 421 00:18:18.678 --> 00:18:19.379 in September. 422 00:18:19.619 --> 00:18:21.401 So tune in again then for the latest updates. 423 00:18:21.861 --> 00:18:23.162 So from all of us here, 424 00:18:23.242 --> 00:18:25.945 have a great summer break and see you in the autumn. 425 00:18:26.365 --> 00:18:26.712 Indeed. 426 00:18:26.876 --> 00:18:27.243 Thank you. 427 00:18:27.766 --> 00:18:28.125 Bye bye. 428 00:18:29.707 --> 00:18:31.414 Safer Chemicals Podcast. 429 00:18:32.157 --> 00:18:34.165 Sound science on harmful chemicals.