WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.448 --> 00:00:00.868 No fluff, 2 00:00:01.028 --> 00:00:01.689 no nonsense, 3 00:00:01.829 --> 00:00:06.571 just real marketing insights for solo marketers and small teams in the startup grind. 4 00:00:06.751 --> 00:00:08.912 We drop episodes only when it matters. 5 00:00:09.172 --> 00:00:09.732 No filler, 6 00:00:10.012 --> 00:00:10.892 just answers. 7 00:00:11.172 --> 00:00:12.153 Because it's all about the, 8 00:00:12.493 --> 00:00:12.933 so what? 9 00:00:13.293 --> 00:00:14.174 Duo on the mic. 10 00:00:14.674 --> 00:00:15.354 Rock and roll. 11 00:00:15.494 --> 00:00:15.754 Okay. 12 00:00:16.535 --> 00:00:19.716 Why is hiring the first marketer critical for startups? 13 00:00:19.796 --> 00:00:22.337 It really is a make or break kind of hire. 14 00:00:22.517 --> 00:00:29.320 I would say it's either going to drive success or it's going to be complete chaos if you have the wrong first marketer. 15 00:00:29.740 --> 00:00:47.171 for the startup but also for the marketer in what sense why do you think it's so challenging to hire the first marketer marketing today is so complex there's just so many different roles so many different specialties no marketer no marketer can be expert in everything it's actually impossible it's i 16 00:00:47.151 --> 00:00:54.596 i know none you have growth marketers you have product marketers you have all sorts of marketers it can be very difficult to one find that 17 00:00:54.676 --> 00:00:54.976 person, 18 00:00:55.036 --> 00:00:57.418 but then also decide what is it that you actually really need, 19 00:00:57.438 --> 00:01:00.960 because you need to understand what you need and then be able to look for that. 20 00:01:01.080 --> 00:01:01.820 Most of the time, 21 00:01:01.940 --> 00:01:04.242 I'd say founders will hire a 22 00:01:05.042 --> 00:01:09.044 Swiss army knife marketer that kind of does a bit of everything, 23 00:01:09.125 --> 00:01:09.805 but you know, 24 00:01:10.005 --> 00:01:11.326 or has one strong specialty, 25 00:01:11.486 --> 00:01:14.047 but they don't actually know themselves what they actually need. 26 00:01:14.067 --> 00:01:16.449 So they might not actually be looking for the right profiles. 27 00:01:16.529 --> 00:01:16.669 Yeah, 28 00:01:17.029 --> 00:01:17.550 absolutely. 29 00:01:17.630 --> 00:01:18.650 If we do an example, 30 00:01:19.050 --> 00:01:20.271 I'm definitely a generalist, 31 00:01:20.291 --> 00:01:21.592 but I have more of a marketing. 32 00:01:21.948 --> 00:01:22.328 Ops, 33 00:01:22.528 --> 00:01:22.928 growth, 34 00:01:23.209 --> 00:01:24.609 marketing specialty, 35 00:01:24.929 --> 00:01:25.370 whereas you, 36 00:01:25.710 --> 00:01:26.710 so I'm also generous, 37 00:01:26.750 --> 00:01:29.011 but more a product marketing focus, 38 00:01:29.151 --> 00:01:30.872 which is why we're a great combo. 39 00:01:31.272 --> 00:01:31.532 Yes, 40 00:01:31.892 --> 00:01:32.633 ultimate combo. 41 00:01:33.813 --> 00:01:34.293 And so yeah, 42 00:01:34.313 --> 00:01:36.354 and then obviously for founders, 43 00:01:36.434 --> 00:01:36.974 sometimes, 44 00:01:37.114 --> 00:01:40.796 because usually if you're going to look for your first market or your early stage startup, 45 00:01:40.856 --> 00:01:41.436 I would assume, 46 00:01:41.536 --> 00:01:43.057 therefore limited budgets, 47 00:01:43.097 --> 00:01:44.978 sometimes limited resources, 48 00:01:45.378 --> 00:01:48.419 which can make it very hard to attract that top talent as well. 49 00:01:48.459 --> 00:01:50.460 So that also adds on to the challenge. 50 00:01:50.540 --> 00:01:52.782 And I think we've both experienced this, 51 00:01:52.822 --> 00:01:54.683 but also unclear expectations, 52 00:01:54.763 --> 00:01:56.745 because I think exactly what you said earlier, 53 00:01:56.805 --> 00:01:59.047 like sometimes they think they know what they need, 54 00:01:59.147 --> 00:01:59.647 but actually, 55 00:02:00.048 --> 00:02:00.728 as they do the hire, 56 00:02:00.848 --> 00:02:02.530 they find out that actually they want something else. 57 00:02:02.610 --> 00:02:05.652 Or actually the company evolves very quickly because it's a fast paced environment. 58 00:02:05.652 --> 00:02:06.172 It always is. 59 00:02:06.272 --> 00:02:08.634 So you have to be able to bounce back quite quickly. 60 00:02:08.975 --> 00:02:13.618 And it can be very difficult to redefine what the role actually is, 61 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:15.660 or it can evolve down the road as well. 62 00:02:15.904 --> 00:02:17.045 Those are the challenging parts, 63 00:02:17.085 --> 00:02:18.966 but like what are some common mistakes, 64 00:02:18.986 --> 00:02:19.266 I guess, 65 00:02:19.366 --> 00:02:22.789 founders make when they're hiring their first marketer? 66 00:02:23.029 --> 00:02:24.690 You would want someone with startup background. 67 00:02:24.730 --> 00:02:29.513 I don't think it's necessary because actually we both entered the startup world without actually having startup experience. 68 00:02:29.733 --> 00:02:34.597 But I do like the idea of someone who you know would have the soft skills to adapt to the startup world. 69 00:02:34.597 --> 00:02:36.118 Because we talk about the hard skills, 70 00:02:36.158 --> 00:02:36.598 soft skills, 71 00:02:36.638 --> 00:02:37.619 which is very important. 72 00:02:37.699 --> 00:02:39.320 And in terms of every hire, 73 00:02:39.580 --> 00:02:40.401 same for marketers, 74 00:02:40.441 --> 00:02:43.783 you need someone who's going to have that startup kind of adaptability. 75 00:02:43.923 --> 00:02:44.343 But I think, 76 00:02:44.363 --> 00:02:44.503 yeah, 77 00:02:44.503 --> 00:02:45.284 that's where it made me. 78 00:02:45.624 --> 00:03:12.892 company or culture fit is more important than the skills themselves like if you can see that the marketer is agile it can adapt really quickly and i think that's more important yeah and i think one of the other really big mistakes and we've seen many times and we've also experienced it ourselves is oh you feel the pain is a overloading that's higher because obviously again we said marketing is so complex there's so much student marketing that there's a tendency of expecting 79 00:03:13.320 --> 00:03:42.700 everything to happen to do everything and it's only one person sometimes don't even have the resource right they don't even have freelancers they don't have a budget they don't have budget and yet they have to do a thousand million things and then founders get frustrated because the quality is not there but like how can you expect quality when there's actually too much to do like you need to be trusting that marketer to understand what the priorities are and to keep focus on those priorities versus trying to do a thousand things and then you're actually overwhelming that marketer who ends up actually 80 00:03:42.780 --> 00:04:06.892 doing subpar work burning out and burning out so how would let's think about founders how would they hire that first marketer what are the steps they should take i think we kind of touched on it already but the first thing is really understand what is it that you really need what you think is going to move the needle this is the first marketing hire therefore you're kind of in the early stage what is going to move the needle what is it that your startup really really needs yeah 81 00:04:07.072 --> 00:04:08.973 Are you struggling with positioning? 82 00:04:09.193 --> 00:04:11.613 Are you struggling with growth or sales? 83 00:04:11.673 --> 00:04:14.634 Or like you need to really pinpoint that first priority. 84 00:04:14.914 --> 00:04:19.175 And that will actually help you then define what would be the ideal first marketer you need. 85 00:04:19.175 --> 00:04:21.116 Because then you can focus on that core. 86 00:04:21.656 --> 00:04:23.017 And as you scale, 87 00:04:23.077 --> 00:04:26.498 that person can probably adapt or they'll get the proper resources in place. 88 00:04:26.498 --> 00:04:28.338 But at least you'll be able to start strong. 89 00:04:28.578 --> 00:04:28.698 Yeah. 90 00:04:28.878 --> 00:04:31.039 And build very strong foundations to start with, 91 00:04:31.059 --> 00:04:33.700 which is very key to any marketing function, 92 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:34.060 obviously. 93 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:34.620 And then. 94 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:37.282 Set clear expectations for that person. 95 00:04:37.342 --> 00:04:38.523 If you're creating a job title, 96 00:04:38.543 --> 00:04:41.125 it shouldn't be a generic marketing job title. 97 00:04:41.225 --> 00:04:42.866 Like you need to describe the role, 98 00:04:43.187 --> 00:04:44.708 the outcomes that you're looking for, 99 00:04:44.868 --> 00:04:47.370 the success metrics for that marketer. 100 00:04:48.010 --> 00:04:48.251 I mean, 101 00:04:48.251 --> 00:04:50.172 that's in a very ideal world, 102 00:04:50.212 --> 00:04:51.413 but let's be very honest. 103 00:04:51.493 --> 00:04:52.194 Early stage startup, 104 00:04:52.214 --> 00:04:53.615 like you can have success metrics, 105 00:04:53.635 --> 00:04:54.796 but those evolve all the time. 106 00:04:54.916 --> 00:04:57.278 Or you end up actually just like kind of going with the flow. 107 00:04:57.318 --> 00:04:58.619 So also need to be realistic. 108 00:04:58.659 --> 00:04:58.779 Well, 109 00:04:58.779 --> 00:04:59.420 that's the startup. 110 00:04:59.500 --> 00:04:59.940 Like you need to. 111 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:01.101 be agile. 112 00:05:01.181 --> 00:05:01.301 So, 113 00:05:01.641 --> 00:05:04.703 but just to give an idea to the marketer what is expected. 114 00:05:05.123 --> 00:05:05.243 Yeah. 115 00:05:05.423 --> 00:05:09.145 Like if you're putting crazy success metrics and that person knows not to apply, 116 00:05:09.225 --> 00:05:12.427 apply realistic success metrics, 117 00:05:12.427 --> 00:05:18.370 knowing that that will probably evolve and probably will evolve because of that person being brought on board and actually being able to tell you like, 118 00:05:18.470 --> 00:05:19.050 actually this is, 119 00:05:19.090 --> 00:05:20.611 but at least needs to be aligned. 120 00:05:20.711 --> 00:05:20.831 Yeah. 121 00:05:20.831 --> 00:05:21.812 What is training? 122 00:05:22.012 --> 00:05:46.552 challenges are and what is it that you need to to make the goals we kind of touched upon it a little bit earlier but what what to look for in like that perfect marketer that first hire well like you said like i think one thing is that's important in in that person is like the startup mindset like if you see that that person has already worked at a startup or has kind of like entrepreneurial background you know that that person will be kind of scrappy or know 123 00:05:46.612 --> 00:05:47.092 how to you 124 00:05:47.288 --> 00:06:02.382 you know roll with the punches look for a marketer that's potentially has a lot of skills but definitely strong expertise in the areas that are very critical to what you need right now versus hiring for what it what you will need in the future like that makes no sense like you shouldn't be doing that how would you lead 125 00:06:02.482 --> 00:06:12.572 the interviews to make sure that that person is the right fit one of the things that i've seen the past that has worked both founders and i obviously was hired this way was like giving practical 126 00:06:12.832 --> 00:06:39.864 assignments like exercises to get paid by the way no one should work for free pretty much giving them assignments i'll use one example the past job i had as a head of marketing actually i was hired based on running a campaign that was the assignment and i actually got hired because i told them that was a really bad idea they asked me to do this mock-up of how i would go about this campaign and what i ended up giving back to them was like actually you shouldn't be doing this this is going to be a waste of time and it's going to be a waste of money 127 00:06:40.224 --> 00:06:43.127 Because I did the research and it makes no sense to run this campaign. 128 00:06:43.507 --> 00:06:43.827 Actually, 129 00:06:43.827 --> 00:06:44.928 you should do this instead. 130 00:06:45.109 --> 00:06:49.653 And that's actually how I got hired to this date with the founder that actually hired me. 131 00:06:49.693 --> 00:06:49.873 Like, 132 00:06:50.193 --> 00:06:52.095 that was so key for him because he was like, 133 00:06:52.856 --> 00:06:55.218 I know that I'm going to be hiring someone who thinks like me. 134 00:06:55.578 --> 00:06:59.082 It's not just going and executing whatever is being told to execute, 135 00:06:59.082 --> 00:07:01.664 but will actually question the exercise, 136 00:07:01.704 --> 00:07:03.125 not just execute the exercise. 137 00:07:03.165 --> 00:07:05.748 And I think that's giving practical exercises. 138 00:07:06.048 --> 00:07:07.729 is a great way to do that. 139 00:07:07.749 --> 00:07:08.329 He told me this, 140 00:07:08.329 --> 00:07:09.010 but other candidates, 141 00:07:09.070 --> 00:07:11.191 a lot of them just went and did the exercise where 142 00:07:11.692 --> 00:07:12.792 I stood out because I was like, 143 00:07:12.872 --> 00:07:13.112 actually, 144 00:07:13.112 --> 00:07:14.253 that exercise makes no sense. 145 00:07:14.253 --> 00:07:15.474 They didn't do this on purpose. 146 00:07:15.494 --> 00:07:17.135 It was just kind of like the context. 147 00:07:17.515 --> 00:07:17.635 Yeah. 148 00:07:17.875 --> 00:07:20.537 Where would you find those top marketers? 149 00:07:20.877 --> 00:07:23.058 Where would you post your job? 150 00:07:23.219 --> 00:07:23.379 Well, 151 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:23.839 obviously, 152 00:07:23.899 --> 00:07:25.480 like one really obvious one is LinkedIn. 153 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:25.800 Yeah. 154 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:27.121 So like using your network. 155 00:07:27.221 --> 00:07:27.682 As a founder, 156 00:07:27.702 --> 00:07:28.622 if you're looking for that person, 157 00:07:28.682 --> 00:07:30.384 like you should be tapping into your network. 158 00:07:30.504 --> 00:07:31.224 Like that's key. 159 00:07:31.304 --> 00:07:32.625 Like in everything we do today, 160 00:07:32.825 --> 00:07:33.786 network is so important. 161 00:07:33.786 --> 00:07:34.387 And if they don't, 162 00:07:34.527 --> 00:07:35.648 if they don't find it that way, 163 00:07:35.668 --> 00:07:38.690 then obviously just using this normal job supports things. 164 00:07:38.710 --> 00:07:45.015 But also I'm actually thinking like something that's really up and coming right now is all those marketing communities now have jobs and they actually vet people. 165 00:07:45.055 --> 00:07:48.938 So there's a lot of platforms now today that like pre-vet candidates for startups. 166 00:07:48.958 --> 00:07:50.579 So that's also a good way to do that. 167 00:07:50.719 --> 00:07:50.999 Yeah. 168 00:07:50.999 --> 00:07:51.319 Actually, 169 00:07:51.319 --> 00:07:51.900 I'm thinking. 170 00:07:52.060 --> 00:07:56.702 If you have a job looking for a top marketer and you sponsor a marketing newsletter, 171 00:07:56.762 --> 00:08:00.123 then you know that the marketer is already subscribed to a newsletter. 172 00:08:00.163 --> 00:08:02.144 They're trying to up-level their skills. 173 00:08:02.324 --> 00:08:04.765 And so if you're putting that job description in there, 174 00:08:04.825 --> 00:08:07.367 then you're likely to find marketers that are top level. 175 00:08:07.527 --> 00:08:10.388 How would you attract top talent on a startup budget? 176 00:08:10.428 --> 00:08:10.588 Like, 177 00:08:10.588 --> 00:08:11.528 how would you go about it? 178 00:08:11.708 --> 00:08:14.590 There are some key things that you should offer, 179 00:08:14.910 --> 00:08:16.590 like flexible hours. 180 00:08:16.590 --> 00:08:18.071 If somebody wants to work in a startup, 181 00:08:18.131 --> 00:08:19.232 it's not just about the money, 182 00:08:19.492 --> 00:08:19.852 obviously. 183 00:08:20.332 --> 00:08:24.334 And so if they're probably looking for that flexibility and just trust, 184 00:08:24.515 --> 00:08:24.855 basically, 185 00:08:24.975 --> 00:08:26.196 they're going to get the job done. 186 00:08:26.196 --> 00:08:27.296 I'm going to use the same example, 187 00:08:27.376 --> 00:08:29.037 but the last job I was in, 188 00:08:29.238 --> 00:08:33.140 I was working for a startup and I actually ended up taking a pay cut to work in that startup. 189 00:08:33.160 --> 00:08:33.540 What you said, 190 00:08:33.540 --> 00:08:34.140 it's not about the money. 191 00:08:34.201 --> 00:08:38.103 I was really excited about joining that startup and that team. 192 00:08:38.123 --> 00:08:38.983 It was about the mission, 193 00:08:39.304 --> 00:08:40.564 what they were trying to achieve, 194 00:08:40.945 --> 00:08:43.066 the team that was part of that startup. 195 00:08:43.126 --> 00:08:46.308 And then obviously then just the fact that it was the way they were. 196 00:08:46.468 --> 00:08:47.409 looking to work together. 197 00:08:47.449 --> 00:08:48.590 Like it was not about just working, 198 00:08:48.590 --> 00:08:51.712 it was about having fun as well and very keen on that work-life balance. 199 00:08:51.732 --> 00:08:54.294 I remember it was a conversation I had with the founder where I was like, 200 00:08:54.635 --> 00:08:57.277 I don't work best doing nine to five. 201 00:08:57.277 --> 00:09:01.020 I work best when I work my own times and I'm going to be very productive. 202 00:09:01.060 --> 00:09:01.420 Whether it's, 203 00:09:01.560 --> 00:09:02.962 if it's a Sunday night, 204 00:09:03.182 --> 00:09:04.403 then it will be a Sunday night. 205 00:09:04.683 --> 00:09:05.384 If it has to be, 206 00:09:05.804 --> 00:09:07.165 and that's really dependent on people, 207 00:09:07.225 --> 00:09:10.968 but I know that that's very key versus expecting someone to just have like set hours. 208 00:09:11.028 --> 00:09:13.390 People are not productive from nine to five. 209 00:09:13.390 --> 00:09:13.510 No, 210 00:09:13.750 --> 00:09:14.171 definitely not. 211 00:09:14.211 --> 00:09:15.031 Especially marketers. 212 00:09:15.091 --> 00:09:15.632 It's a job that... 213 00:09:15.812 --> 00:09:17.653 requires creativity to some extent. 214 00:09:17.733 --> 00:09:21.795 And so having those flexible hours and environment and whatnot, 215 00:09:21.835 --> 00:09:23.556 it's definitely key in today's world. 216 00:09:23.656 --> 00:09:26.038 If you're looking for a nine to five marketer, 217 00:09:26.138 --> 00:09:29.140 then you should not be building this in sort of a profit way. 218 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:31.501 That's a very strong opinion. 219 00:09:31.701 --> 00:09:32.261 I love it. 220 00:09:32.381 --> 00:09:34.042 But I think what you said is super key, 221 00:09:34.082 --> 00:09:35.023 like selling the vision, 222 00:09:35.083 --> 00:09:41.727 like they're just looking for a marketer to do the job and not care about the mission or what you're trying to build, 223 00:09:41.747 --> 00:09:43.548 that's a huge issue. 224 00:09:43.588 --> 00:09:43.808 I mean. 225 00:09:44.128 --> 00:09:44.668 As a marketer, 226 00:09:44.688 --> 00:09:47.611 I want to care about the thing that I'm working on. 227 00:09:47.951 --> 00:09:51.474 I want to actually feel like it's a solution to an actual problem. 228 00:09:51.754 --> 00:09:53.915 And then the third thing is equity. 229 00:09:54.176 --> 00:09:54.656 With equity, 230 00:09:54.656 --> 00:09:56.657 you get a bit of skin in the game to some extent. 231 00:09:56.678 --> 00:09:58.599 At least you can kind of see it this way, 232 00:09:58.699 --> 00:09:58.859 right? 233 00:09:59.119 --> 00:09:59.960 If the startup does well. 234 00:10:00.060 --> 00:10:01.101 than the person does well. 235 00:10:01.101 --> 00:10:04.883 It's extra motivation for the marketer to do something really cool. 236 00:10:04.923 --> 00:10:06.864 How would you go about retaining those people? 237 00:10:07.004 --> 00:10:10.486 Marketing is one of the roles that has the highest turnover in startups. 238 00:10:10.526 --> 00:10:13.468 I think it's very important to just highlight that it works both ways. 239 00:10:13.488 --> 00:10:13.848 It's like, 240 00:10:14.008 --> 00:10:14.128 one, 241 00:10:14.188 --> 00:10:16.149 retaining the marketer because the marketer wants to leave, 242 00:10:16.169 --> 00:10:19.611 but also sometimes because you made that wrong hire that we chatted about earlier, 243 00:10:19.691 --> 00:10:21.432 then you end up having that turnover as well. 244 00:10:21.532 --> 00:10:22.212 It's both things. 245 00:10:22.252 --> 00:10:24.634 I think giving the right resources to that marketer, 246 00:10:24.654 --> 00:10:24.954 basically, 247 00:10:24.954 --> 00:10:28.396 because I think one of the reasons why I left most of the companies that I... 248 00:10:29.032 --> 00:10:31.014 I left is because I don't have resources. 249 00:10:31.114 --> 00:10:36.258 Either I don't have the right budget or they don't want to put the time and energy in marketing, 250 00:10:36.258 --> 00:10:38.660 but they're not ready to do the proper investment in marketing, 251 00:10:38.700 --> 00:10:39.601 which is very important. 252 00:10:39.641 --> 00:10:40.802 Marketing is an investment. 253 00:10:41.102 --> 00:10:43.444 And if you don't have money to invest, 254 00:10:43.484 --> 00:10:44.445 then as a marketer, 255 00:10:44.525 --> 00:10:45.846 it's very quickly limited. 256 00:10:45.986 --> 00:10:48.328 And it's frustrating to work with small budgets. 257 00:10:48.328 --> 00:10:51.170 I've been with startups that literally have very little budget. 258 00:10:51.170 --> 00:10:51.411 And yeah, 259 00:10:51.451 --> 00:10:55.634 you have to be scrappy and you can do things like if it's a small time frame. 260 00:10:55.734 --> 00:10:55.874 Yeah, 261 00:10:55.894 --> 00:10:57.455 you can be scrappy for a while, 262 00:10:57.475 --> 00:10:58.016 but it can't. 263 00:10:58.356 --> 00:10:58.997 last forever. 264 00:10:59.117 --> 00:10:59.597 Let's be clear, 265 00:10:59.737 --> 00:11:00.118 startups, 266 00:11:00.138 --> 00:11:01.059 I think they're going to scale, 267 00:11:01.099 --> 00:11:03.041 but then they're waiting to put the money to scale. 268 00:11:03.301 --> 00:11:03.621 And also, 269 00:11:03.661 --> 00:11:06.384 I think one key thing is not being available for that marketer. 270 00:11:06.424 --> 00:11:08.145 Like if you're a founder and you've hired somebody, 271 00:11:08.246 --> 00:11:13.511 like you need to make sure that you are present here to get feedback and give time for that marketer. 272 00:11:13.611 --> 00:11:16.894 If you're just expecting them to just roll by themselves. 273 00:11:16.934 --> 00:11:17.334 And I agree, 274 00:11:17.374 --> 00:11:17.555 like, 275 00:11:17.655 --> 00:11:17.855 yes, 276 00:11:17.975 --> 00:11:19.877 they need to be able to take charge, 277 00:11:19.977 --> 00:11:21.218 but you still need to be there. 278 00:11:21.398 --> 00:11:22.699 If they're going to create content, 279 00:11:22.719 --> 00:11:23.100 they need. 280 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:24.341 availability from the team. 281 00:11:24.361 --> 00:11:25.722 They need availability from the founders. 282 00:11:25.882 --> 00:11:26.022 Yeah, 283 00:11:26.082 --> 00:11:26.482 exactly. 284 00:11:26.502 --> 00:11:27.223 It's not a one-man show. 285 00:11:27.363 --> 00:11:28.984 Be willing to invest in skills as well, 286 00:11:29.044 --> 00:11:29.244 right? 287 00:11:29.304 --> 00:11:30.125 Especially in marketing, 288 00:11:30.165 --> 00:11:31.666 like things are changing so fast. 289 00:11:31.726 --> 00:11:34.047 If you want to stay up to date as a startup, 290 00:11:34.107 --> 00:11:36.409 you kind of want to roll with the trends, 291 00:11:36.509 --> 00:11:39.791 then you need a marketer that can up-level their skills. 292 00:11:39.951 --> 00:11:41.713 So where are we trying to get to as a conclusion? 293 00:11:41.813 --> 00:11:46.716 I think the best hires that you can make in marketing are not necessarily the longest resumes, 294 00:11:46.756 --> 00:11:48.477 the ones with the most experience. 295 00:11:48.577 --> 00:11:51.059 You have to look for some key things in that marketer. 296 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:52.400 And we can help with that, 297 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:52.620 right? 298 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:54.703 If you're looking for that first hire, 299 00:11:54.964 --> 00:11:55.886 your first marketer, 300 00:11:56.006 --> 00:11:58.711 then you can head on to Duo.co and see what we're all about. 301 00:11:58.911 --> 00:11:59.692 See if it's a fit, 302 00:11:59.953 --> 00:12:00.954 long or short term. 303 00:12:01.415 --> 00:12:01.976 No filler, 304 00:12:02.257 --> 00:12:03.138 just answers. 305 00:12:03.439 --> 00:12:04.240 Duo on the mic. 306 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:05.102 Cheerio. 307 00:12:05.422 --> 00:12:05.542 Oh, 308 00:12:05.522 --> 00:12:06.204 I love Cheerio.