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There are a number of things that we agreed upon early on,

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like how we would shepherd students through a two-year MFA.

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And one is that we would encourage them to continually make things and to open possibilities rather than direct them into certain positions.

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Hello and welcome to Art Restart,

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where we learn from artists who,

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wherever they work,

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whatever they make.

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are shaking up the status quo in their fields and in their communities.

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I'm Pierre Carlo Talenti,

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the producer and editor of this podcast,

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which is brought to you by the Thomas S.

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Keenan Institute for the Arts at the University of North Carolina School of the Arts.

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In this episode,

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we'll be speaking with composer Byron O.

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Young.

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For more than two decades,

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Byron has created music that bridges performance,

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ritual,

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and activism.

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His highly collaborative works have been presented by such varied institutions as the Seattle Symphony,

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BAM,

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the Smithsonian,

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and the American Conservatory Theater.

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Among his many large-scale projects is his long partnership with writer and rapper Aaron Jafaris,

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with whom he created the Liberation Trilogy,

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which includes Stuck Elevator,

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The Ones,

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and Activist Songbook.

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I was particularly excited to speak with Byron because in addition to his composing work,

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he's also Associate Professor and Director of Arts Leadership at Seattle University.

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In an era when a lot of assumptions about arts institutions are being overturned,

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I really wanted to know what he thought a

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21st century arts leader needs to be.

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I knew he'd recently returned from his second residency at Bloedel Reserve in Puget Sound.

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So I started off by asking him what he was working on while he was there.

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Yeah,

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so

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I'm working on a musical requiem called Forest Aeternum.

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So if you,

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so the first or one of the lyrics in the

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Catholic mass,

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requiem mass is Requiem Aeternum.

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And during my first residency there in 2022,

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like after the first day,

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I realized it because I went in thinking the project was called Forest Requiem.

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Requiem,

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I realized,

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oh no,

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it can't be.

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It has to be forest eternal.

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So rather than rest,

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it is eternal because the trees have been here way before humans and they will continue after us.

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The project is where people listen and sing with trees.

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And so I was there happily entering tree time and listening and singing.

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Wait,

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so eventually it'll involve...

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Audience participation?

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Is that what you're saying?

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Yeah.

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Oh,

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wait.

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So,

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yeah,

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explain how that'll work.

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Yeah.

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If you can.

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Well,

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I mean,

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this is one of the cool things,

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or maybe not so cool,

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but one of the things about the Catholic Mass is the congregation participates.

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They sing along.

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They stand.

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Sometimes kneel.

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They sit.

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there are current things,

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contexts that are brought in from

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you know,

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various people.

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So,

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yeah,

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so it is something that is participatory.

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And how I've been working on this project is I have been working with different folks in woodland areas to engage in this practice because listening with

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trees,

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as you may know,

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trees communicate through their roots.

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And so...

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To listen with the tree,

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you're actually not listening with your ears.

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You're listening through your feet.

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And so I've been doing this practice of inhaling from the earth and exhaling back to the earth.

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And in that way,

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feet are then grounded in such a way that we can listen through our feet.

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And if you know elephants,

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elephants listen through their feet.

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if you look at an elephant's

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legs and feet.

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They are like tree trunks.

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And this is how herds of elephants are able to hear across long distances because they're actually listening through the earth.

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So it'll be a mass taking place in a forest?

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Yes,

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and concert halls and churches and within immersive installations.

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So part of this project was prompted by

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By me considering,

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you know,

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as a composer,

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what am I doing?

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What is my practice?

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Why bother?

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writing music now,

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because for me,

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music needs to have a function.

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There are over 2,000 musical requiems written.

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So I thought,

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oh,

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you know,

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I probably should contribute to this,

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but what would it be?

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And as the 20th century,

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there were many war requiems,

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I thought,

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well,

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the 21st century,

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it will most likely need to be about the climate.

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Around the same time that I was

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hanging out more and more in woodland areas.

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I was taking care of my father,

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and I helped care for him for the five months before he passed.

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And my dad was someone who was born in the mountains in October 1941 to refugees,

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but he would not go outside.

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And part of it is because it was 2021,

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so it was the pandemic.

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But...

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even more reason to go outside because no one was around.

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So I would go outside and I would bring back cones and so forth to him as a way to connect.

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But this also made me realize,

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I was also teaching online at the same time,

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and this also made me realize that not everyone has access to woodland areas and so that there needs to be immersive installation component.

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How much research do you tend to do before a project like this?

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A lot.

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I love research.

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Yeah.

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What was your favorite research project that was tied to a composition project?

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I would have to say the works that are related to the natural environment are the ones that are the ones that are the most grounding.

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Although there is a project I haven't been able to.

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complete yet.

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I think I needed to do Forest Day Turn-In before

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I did this other project,

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which is a sea level rise project.

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But I also want to talk about the trilogy that I worked on with writer Aaron Jafaris,

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because that one was a

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15-year project that was interview-based,

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and it was interviewing people who had been through traumatic events.

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And while at the time it was difficult.

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to hold the circumstances in which the people we were interviewing,

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what they were carrying with them.

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I feel like the works that we were able,

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like the songs and raps we were able to write together,

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provided both awareness as well as accountability,

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as well as a deeper understanding of the...

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how complicated certain issues are,

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especially in the United States,

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such as gun violence prevention and immigration rights and labor and organizing.

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Yeah,

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so I'm very fond of that.

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And also.

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You know,

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like working with someone over such a long period,

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like a primary collaborator,

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and then bringing in a number of different people from a number of different areas to work alongside.

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There are communities that are formed and that already exist that I get to learn from.

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At what point is your coming up as an artist?

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Well,

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first of all,

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at what age did you decide you were going to be a composer?

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Eleven.

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Oh,

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okay.

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Did you compose something at 11?

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Yeah.

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And,

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you know,

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there are times when I don't call myself a composer and I feel like I'm entering another chapter where I may not be calling myself a composer.

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But

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I started calling myself a composer at 11 because I started to write,

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I started to notate the music.

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And that,

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to me,

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is the craft of a composer,

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is writing stuff down.

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But I was creating music way before then.

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Oh,

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you were.

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You were just navigating it.

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Yeah,

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correct.

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And so there were times in my life when I've called myself a singer-songwriter or like coming back to Seattle,

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still some people introduced me as a performance artist because I did that when I was in my

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20s. And yeah,

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you know,

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people,

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however I am or my work is encountered,

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that's what they may continue to recognize me as.

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You mentioned...

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two things that really interested me about the way you work one is that you believe that music should your music should have a function and also that clearly you don't you don't like to work alone you like to work in community so i'd love to know about how you discovered these two aspects of your art making that you

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want your music to have a function and also that you want to work in community as you develop a piece for me like music

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for me as a child was a way to...

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comfort myself.

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I was the only son of immigrant parents who divorced,

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and they sent me away for a year when I was age seven.

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And so

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I was by myself.

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And I was also,

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and

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I've heard this later that

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that children sing to comfort themselves.

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And,

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you know,

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so I always pay special attention to children who are singing because I was one of those kids.

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So first it was made up songs.

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And then

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I started to hear songs that then I would copy.

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And then because I have an aunt who is a school teacher and was always looking for things for me and my cousins to participate in as kids,

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she saw an audition notice.

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were a musical needed Asian kids.

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And I think this is very common maybe for some Asian Americans.

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So,

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oh my gosh,

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Asian kids are needed to sing,

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who can sing.

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Is it King and I?

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Yes.

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See,

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you guessed it.

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You totally know,

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right?

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So yes,

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Bear Funding King and I.

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And it happened to be at a theater that was like eight shows a week for two months.

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And then they cast me in South Pacific.

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I already loved singing,

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so I was like,

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it's fine.

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And then I was in the boy choir,

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and I did that.

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And for me,

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I think that this actually answers both questions.

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There was a function in music.

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One was to comfort myself.

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And then all of a sudden,

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it became within community,

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right?

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Because I was with other kids who were singing in part of a show and storytelling.

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And

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I was taken out of school to be able to participate in these shows.

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And later on,

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when I studied composition,

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there was a disconnect until

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I added ethnomusicology.

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And even though I'm an ethnomusicology dropout,

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I learned some crucial things from ethnomusicology because ethnomusicologists are always considering what is the function of the music,

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right?

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What is the function of the music for certain communities?

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And so this is a way that I also consider in my teaching various artworks.

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Like what is the function?

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Is the function to decorate?

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Is the function to be part of a ceremony of passage,

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whether it's a wedding or burial?

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Is the function to teach?

270
00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:42.118
Like whatever that is.

271
00:12:42.618 --> 00:12:42.930
And so

272
00:12:44.243 --> 00:12:45.790
I think also because...

273
00:12:46.555 --> 00:12:53.181
The only way I've been able to thrive as a musician composer is by being in community,

274
00:12:53.540 --> 00:12:55.602
even though I was taught to be by myself,

275
00:12:55.962 --> 00:12:59.727
either in a practice room or at a desk writing.

276
00:13:00.767 --> 00:13:03.431
And that to me was very lonely.

277
00:13:03.712 --> 00:13:04.431
And I was like,

278
00:13:04.432 --> 00:13:04.556
no,

279
00:13:06.009 --> 00:13:08.009
I want to make music with people.

280
00:13:08.071 --> 00:13:12.899
And I think one of the positive things is one of my composition mentors,

281
00:13:13.415 --> 00:13:14.227
Joel Durand,

282
00:13:14.837 --> 00:13:15.149
And he...

283
00:13:15.495 --> 00:13:29.372
always came to my music rehearsals and he would speak with me about how I interacted with the musical ensemble because I tended to do large musical ensemble works where everyone was moving around,

284
00:13:29.911 --> 00:13:30.973
like physically moving.

285
00:13:31.051 --> 00:13:32.489
Musicians were physically moving.

286
00:13:33.254 --> 00:13:38.114
I know when I go into classical music situations now,

287
00:13:39.301 --> 00:13:43.161
sometimes musicians are scared.

288
00:13:43.711 --> 00:13:44.572
to meet me and

289
00:13:44.973 --> 00:13:59.006
I always think like why why would they be scared to meet me because I really like working with music ensembles wait you're saying they're scared to meet you because you're going to make them move around oh uh well maybe that and also

290
00:13:59.943 --> 00:14:12.131
I feel like from observing some other composers maybe they don't work with ensembles in the same way

291
00:14:12.875 --> 00:14:17.780
You have collaborated with a really broad range of artists and with

292
00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:19.280
Aaron, as you talked about,

293
00:14:19.281 --> 00:14:21.022
for at least 15 years.

294
00:14:21.382 --> 00:14:21.725
Yeah.

295
00:14:21.983 --> 00:14:26.007
What is key to a fruitful collaboration?

296
00:14:26.327 --> 00:14:39.842
Figuring out how to communicate about the work and knowing that there are different entry points into the work and listening,

297
00:14:39.936 --> 00:14:41.077
listening really deeply.

298
00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:44.884
The cool thing about this collaboration is that,

299
00:14:45.486 --> 00:14:45.646
like,

300
00:14:45.647 --> 00:14:50.874
we have also witnessed each other at our worst and our best.

301
00:14:51.593 --> 00:14:51.898
It's like,

302
00:14:51.976 --> 00:14:52.234
yeah,

303
00:14:52.296 --> 00:14:52.554
that's...

304
00:14:53.132 --> 00:14:53.713
That's how it is.

305
00:14:54.534 --> 00:14:57.917
That's who we are as young men.

306
00:14:58.096 --> 00:14:59.257
And now it's like,

307
00:14:59.299 --> 00:14:59.639
oh yeah,

308
00:14:59.839 --> 00:15:00.518
we're much older.

309
00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:03.003
And so we don't act out as much,

310
00:15:03.401 --> 00:15:04.385
but he would check me.

311
00:15:04.784 --> 00:15:05.026
You know,

312
00:15:05.464 --> 00:15:08.924
I'd be in a workshop getting really,

313
00:15:09.010 --> 00:15:09.643
really angry.

314
00:15:10.362 --> 00:15:11.596
And because we know each other,

315
00:15:11.753 --> 00:15:12.409
he would be like,

316
00:15:12.456 --> 00:15:12.737
okay,

317
00:15:13.378 --> 00:15:13.893
calm down,

318
00:15:14.815 --> 00:15:15.456
calm down.

319
00:15:15.971 --> 00:15:19.971
I know this singer is not right or whatever it is.

320
00:15:20.331 --> 00:15:21.315
And similarly,

321
00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:22.346
I would check him.

322
00:15:22.912 --> 00:15:43.756
on on things yeah well after 15 years i mean it is it is a marriage yeah and and is that i yeah i don't know i don't know yeah i guess it depends on on how marriage is defined when you're a case it's a marriage that's easy to take a five-year break from it i'm

323
00:15:43.819 --> 00:15:45.116
back that's nice yeah

324
00:15:47.008 --> 00:15:47.168
Well,

325
00:15:47.169 --> 00:15:47.528
we'll see.

326
00:15:48.048 --> 00:15:48.348
We'll see.

327
00:15:48.529 --> 00:15:49.989
I mean,

328
00:15:50.009 --> 00:15:51.648
what happens is there's a shorthand.

329
00:15:51.948 --> 00:15:53.148
I guess in that sense,

330
00:15:53.210 --> 00:15:53.609
it is,

331
00:15:53.769 --> 00:15:54.148
right?

332
00:15:54.249 --> 00:15:57.234
It's a partnership where we've developed a shorthand.

333
00:15:57.890 --> 00:15:59.210
And because we,

334
00:15:59.632 --> 00:16:00.234
oh my gosh,

335
00:16:01.210 --> 00:16:06.390
I think one of the things about working together collaboratively,

336
00:16:06.655 --> 00:16:08.905
especially within performance,

337
00:16:09.655 --> 00:16:10.452
theater making,

338
00:16:10.687 --> 00:16:11.499
music making,

339
00:16:11.749 --> 00:16:13.577
is the number of revisions.

340
00:16:14.046 --> 00:16:16.155
And we figured out a way to do that.

341
00:16:16.632 --> 00:16:35.610
quickly and meaningfully right and also we can share like you know initial drafts of her like i have no idea what this is uh right and and not feel not feel the shame and embarrassment that's just how it works right yeah yeah you have to be able to do that i

342
00:16:35.626 --> 00:16:44.719
want to talk now about where you are now at seattle university where you're speaking to me from and the fact that you're director of arts leadership which i love that

343
00:16:44.832 --> 00:16:47.034
there is such an MFA program there.

344
00:16:47.614 --> 00:16:51.276
So can you tell me about when you decided to take the position,

345
00:16:52.101 --> 00:16:53.878
what did you think you were getting yourself into?

346
00:16:54.761 --> 00:16:57.167
What did arts leadership mean to you at the time?

347
00:16:57.745 --> 00:17:00.964
Arts leadership for me meant artist lead,

348
00:17:02.573 --> 00:17:04.776
which wasn't the program at the time.

349
00:17:06.073 --> 00:17:09.589
And yet in speaking with the founder,

350
00:17:10.204 --> 00:17:11.806
The director who I replaced,

351
00:17:11.926 --> 00:17:12.707
Kevin Mayfield,

352
00:17:12.726 --> 00:17:19.391
who started the program in 2007 and directed it until 2023.

353
00:17:19.392 --> 00:17:19.992
So this is the thing,

354
00:17:20.055 --> 00:17:20.258
right?

355
00:17:20.633 --> 00:17:24.336
So he positions himself as a nonprofit theater administrator.

356
00:17:24.820 --> 00:17:27.461
He was managing director of the Seattle Children's Theater,

357
00:17:27.617 --> 00:17:30.351
which is what brought him to Seattle from

358
00:17:30.820 --> 00:17:31.726
Denver, Colorado,

359
00:17:31.992 --> 00:17:32.992
where he managed.

360
00:17:33.648 --> 00:17:35.336
I don't know which theater he managed there.

361
00:17:36.195 --> 00:17:38.367
But I kept asking him as I do.

362
00:17:39.260 --> 00:17:43.384
Anyone who's in arts management or arts administration or arts leadership,

363
00:17:43.486 --> 00:17:43.787
I'm like,

364
00:17:43.806 --> 00:17:45.087
what's your artistic practice?

365
00:17:45.224 --> 00:17:45.408
What's,

366
00:17:45.486 --> 00:17:45.747
you know,

367
00:17:45.826 --> 00:17:46.048
like,

368
00:17:46.747 --> 00:17:47.787
did you play music?

369
00:17:47.826 --> 00:17:49.513
Were you a theater kid?

370
00:17:49.591 --> 00:17:49.794
Like,

371
00:17:49.888 --> 00:17:50.169
you know,

372
00:17:50.412 --> 00:17:52.615
and he would never answer until a year later.

373
00:17:53.396 --> 00:17:54.872
He said he was a clarinetist,

374
00:17:56.544 --> 00:18:00.216
which there are so many cool clarinetists who are arts leaders.

375
00:18:00.622 --> 00:18:01.404
Ben Johnson,

376
00:18:01.560 --> 00:18:01.763
right,

377
00:18:02.122 --> 00:18:03.904
who's running the Office of Arts.

378
00:18:04.272 --> 00:18:06.192
Cultural Affairs in Minneapolis.

379
00:18:06.392 --> 00:18:08.654
And Rob Bayliss is a clarinetist.

380
00:18:08.655 --> 00:18:11.494
He's artistic director at Broadstage.

381
00:18:11.693 --> 00:18:12.951
Why do you think he wouldn't answer?

382
00:18:13.677 --> 00:18:16.896
Because that wasn't his identity,

383
00:18:17.474 --> 00:18:18.732
because he had to give it up.

384
00:18:18.896 --> 00:18:19.935
And this is the thing,

385
00:18:20.076 --> 00:18:20.341
you know,

386
00:18:20.419 --> 00:18:20.919
like our,

387
00:18:22.513 --> 00:18:22.779
you know,

388
00:18:22.919 --> 00:18:23.513
school,

389
00:18:24.310 --> 00:18:26.857
school can be a harmful place for some people.

390
00:18:28.076 --> 00:18:28.716
And I think,

391
00:18:29.263 --> 00:18:33.763
especially within the classical music world.

392
00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:35.421
It continues to be,

393
00:18:35.862 --> 00:18:36.423
as it should,

394
00:18:36.523 --> 00:18:38.202
an apprentice system.

395
00:18:38.323 --> 00:18:45.812
And so if you have a primary teacher who is not going to support you,

396
00:18:46.374 --> 00:18:49.398
whether it's composition or clarinet or whatnot,

397
00:18:49.655 --> 00:18:50.991
then you have to go elsewhere.

398
00:18:51.257 --> 00:18:57.648
And so he went into accounting and discovered he loved finances and then went that route.

399
00:18:58.244 --> 00:18:58.684
Years later,

400
00:18:58.744 --> 00:19:00.485
became a nonprofit theater administrator,

401
00:19:01.125 --> 00:19:03.764
came in Seattle University to teach him courses,

402
00:19:03.827 --> 00:19:08.706
and then was asked to start something to do with arts administration,

403
00:19:08.745 --> 00:19:09.245
management,

404
00:19:09.284 --> 00:19:09.870
or leadership.

405
00:19:10.323 --> 00:19:13.151
So the interesting thing is he started a two-year

406
00:19:13.768 --> 00:19:16.213
MFA in arts leadership.

407
00:19:16.354 --> 00:19:17.635
But not for artists.

408
00:19:18.167 --> 00:19:18.401
Well,

409
00:19:19.635 --> 00:19:21.323
because when he started,

410
00:19:22.448 --> 00:19:27.729
they were people who wanted to fill certain roles at arts institutions.

411
00:19:28.560 --> 00:19:28.761
Right?

412
00:19:28.762 --> 00:19:29.942
2007.

413
00:19:30.621 --> 00:19:32.504
But as he was leaving,

414
00:19:32.563 --> 00:19:39.188
what he recognized was that students don't necessarily want to be in those roles.

415
00:19:39.289 --> 00:19:41.055
They may want to start something new,

416
00:19:41.836 --> 00:19:48.867
or they had been working at an arts institution and was like,

417
00:19:48.914 --> 00:19:49.133
yeah,

418
00:19:49.914 --> 00:19:52.383
something's really wrong with the field.

419
00:19:53.230 --> 00:19:54.151
One of the things I did,

420
00:19:54.191 --> 00:19:59.337
because someone on the hiring committee was from nonprofit leadership,

421
00:19:59.935 --> 00:20:14.083
I spoke about the nonprofit industrial complex and how many arts organizations are within that and how there are many models that independent artists are,

422
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:15.771
like,

423
00:20:15.911 --> 00:20:16.474
not all,

424
00:20:16.677 --> 00:20:16.849
like,

425
00:20:16.958 --> 00:20:20.349
I chose never to have a nonprofit,

426
00:20:20.458 --> 00:20:22.224
even though I have worked at.

427
00:20:22.430 --> 00:20:24.672
nonprofit organizations,

428
00:20:25.514 --> 00:20:25.713
right?

429
00:20:25.994 --> 00:20:30.439
But there is something inherent in it that sets certain things up to fail.

430
00:20:31.260 --> 00:20:31.783
Yeah.

431
00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:36.361
And a lot of it is interviews are a two-way process.

432
00:20:36.486 --> 00:20:37.103
And so I'm like,

433
00:20:37.127 --> 00:20:37.267
yeah,

434
00:20:37.322 --> 00:20:38.846
if you're not going to accept this,

435
00:20:39.002 --> 00:20:42.111
then let's talk about the nonprofit industrial complex.

436
00:20:42.236 --> 00:20:43.096
Then yeah,

437
00:20:43.330 --> 00:20:48.689
then I'm the wrong person to lead this transition for arts leadership.

438
00:20:49.054 --> 00:20:49.815
But they said yes.

439
00:20:49.895 --> 00:20:50.215
Clearly,

440
00:20:51.116 --> 00:20:54.118
they were open to a reinvention.

441
00:20:54.778 --> 00:20:55.079
Yeah,

442
00:20:55.461 --> 00:20:55.661
yeah.

443
00:20:55.782 --> 00:20:56.301
And we are,

444
00:20:56.602 --> 00:20:59.481
me and the other full-time professor is James Miles,

445
00:20:59.543 --> 00:21:01.004
who's a hip-hop educator.

446
00:21:01.246 --> 00:21:01.504
You know,

447
00:21:01.825 --> 00:21:02.684
I didn't know him.

448
00:21:03.145 --> 00:21:03.707
He has a

449
00:21:04.512 --> 00:21:06.684
TED Talk on hip-hop education,

450
00:21:06.918 --> 00:21:07.293
and

451
00:21:08.153 --> 00:21:10.856
I was a bit scared to meet with him.

452
00:21:11.028 --> 00:21:13.965
But when I met with him and I learned that,

453
00:21:14.043 --> 00:21:14.153
oh,

454
00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:14.371
yeah,

455
00:21:14.465 --> 00:21:14.918
he is.

456
00:21:16.050 --> 00:21:17.492
He's been in Spike Lee films,

457
00:21:17.572 --> 00:21:25.961
but he is dedicated to education that is equitable and that will not harm,

458
00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:31.922
but will rather liberate and open up spaces for imagination and creativity.

459
00:21:32.172 --> 00:21:36.484
And so there are a number of things that we agreed upon early on,

460
00:21:37.078 --> 00:21:39.781
like how we would shepherd students through a two-year MFA.

461
00:21:39.969 --> 00:21:44.641
And one is that we would encourage them to continually make things and to...

462
00:21:45.302 --> 00:21:51.748
open possibilities rather than direct them into certain positions.

463
00:21:52.791 --> 00:21:53.334
As you said,

464
00:21:53.553 --> 00:22:00.459
the non-profit industrial complex is really showing its cracks in recent years.

465
00:22:01.178 --> 00:22:07.099
As you are teaching your students in this arts leadership program towards liberation,

466
00:22:07.131 --> 00:22:07.818
as you're calling it,

467
00:22:09.287 --> 00:22:10.521
what are you learning from them?

468
00:22:10.771 --> 00:22:14.271
And what are you also teaching them about what an arts...

469
00:22:15.098 --> 00:22:16.680
leader looks like today?

470
00:22:17.941 --> 00:22:19.203
So as

471
00:22:19.645 --> 00:22:26.090
I've recognized the only way I can thrive as an artist is in community.

472
00:22:27.371 --> 00:22:28.051
Similarly,

473
00:22:29.449 --> 00:22:30.012
leaders,

474
00:22:30.176 --> 00:22:32.012
if nobody has your back as a leader,

475
00:22:32.590 --> 00:22:33.715
you're in big trouble,

476
00:22:34.262 --> 00:22:34.621
right?

477
00:22:35.215 --> 00:22:35.340
So

478
00:22:36.043 --> 00:22:38.340
I'm really interested in distributed leadership.

479
00:22:38.762 --> 00:22:42.012
I'm really interested in leaders who

480
00:22:43.459 --> 00:22:44.100
I mean,

481
00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:46.321
one of the things for the incoming

482
00:22:46.661 --> 00:22:52.825
MFA candidates is our primary agenda is to build a strong cohort.

483
00:22:54.489 --> 00:22:54.833
That's it.

484
00:22:57.310 --> 00:22:57.974
Yeah,

485
00:22:57.975 --> 00:23:00.520
we're going to go through a lot of content really quickly,

486
00:23:01.630 --> 00:23:04.255
and we're going to figure out how to work with each other,

487
00:23:04.474 --> 00:23:04.661
right?

488
00:23:05.302 --> 00:23:11.099
Because the people you are sitting with right now are the people who are going to have your backs.

489
00:23:12.378 --> 00:23:12.859
How big is each class?

490
00:23:12.860 --> 00:23:14.280
We're not going to be at the same institution.

491
00:23:15.120 --> 00:23:15.600
A dozen.

492
00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:16.760
Okay.

493
00:23:17.264 --> 00:23:17.983
10 years from now,

494
00:23:18.042 --> 00:23:18.745
20 years from now,

495
00:23:18.803 --> 00:23:19.585
30 years from now,

496
00:23:19.624 --> 00:23:20.784
be able to ask,

497
00:23:21.604 --> 00:23:22.846
have reality checks,

498
00:23:24.167 --> 00:23:24.409
right?

499
00:23:24.729 --> 00:23:26.010
With your cohort.

500
00:23:26.589 --> 00:23:27.112
Exactly.

501
00:23:27.573 --> 00:23:30.760
So you start in 2023.

502
00:23:31.651 --> 00:23:36.417
So you have one class that's graduated since you took over,

503
00:23:36.526 --> 00:23:36.745
right?

504
00:23:36.760 --> 00:23:38.917
That you were with for the full two years.

505
00:23:39.682 --> 00:23:40.667
Do you have a sense of...

506
00:23:41.582 --> 00:23:44.085
where they're going to lead through their artistry.

507
00:23:45.146 --> 00:23:52.655
The thing I know from being an educator for so long is as universities,

508
00:23:53.874 --> 00:23:55.194
marketing and so forth,

509
00:23:55.577 --> 00:23:55.859
you know,

510
00:23:56.234 --> 00:23:57.773
talk about careers and so forth,

511
00:23:57.774 --> 00:24:00.413
we actually don't know what the careers are,

512
00:24:01.194 --> 00:24:01.398
right?

513
00:24:02.085 --> 00:24:03.148
Like the role I'm in now,

514
00:24:04.288 --> 00:24:09.788
it wasn't created until 2007 and I graduated.

515
00:24:10.662 --> 00:24:13.725
with my MFA in musical theater writing in 2005.

516
00:24:14.065 --> 00:24:21.709
And who would ever think that an MFA in musical theater writing would lead to being director of arts leadership?

517
00:24:22.717 --> 00:24:22.834
So

518
00:24:23.217 --> 00:24:25.475
I don't think so much in terms of,

519
00:24:25.553 --> 00:24:25.834
yeah,

520
00:24:26.600 --> 00:24:28.725
what are the position titles you will have in the future?

521
00:24:28.959 --> 00:24:29.694
We don't know that.

522
00:24:30.178 --> 00:24:38.694
But there is something about really knowing what your values are and what your capacity is and having a community.

523
00:24:40.246 --> 00:24:41.428
to support you through that.

524
00:24:42.428 --> 00:24:42.607
Yeah.

525
00:24:42.748 --> 00:24:43.330
So I don't know.

526
00:24:43.449 --> 00:24:45.369
I am super excited though,

527
00:24:45.592 --> 00:24:45.990
because

528
00:24:46.533 --> 00:24:48.197
I know some of them discovered.

529
00:24:48.275 --> 00:24:49.213
So for example,

530
00:24:50.158 --> 00:24:52.635
there's a student who is a medium.

531
00:24:53.370 --> 00:24:55.673
And it was able to channel certain things.

532
00:24:56.513 --> 00:24:59.376
And she ended up,

533
00:24:59.837 --> 00:25:00.376
as her

534
00:25:00.798 --> 00:25:01.740
MFA thesis,

535
00:25:01.919 --> 00:25:06.505
creating a podcast about other spiritual people.

536
00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:09.966
And she came into the program as a theater artist,

537
00:25:10.685 --> 00:25:11.091
right?

538
00:25:11.982 --> 00:25:12.794
And then discovered,

539
00:25:12.826 --> 00:25:12.951
oh,

540
00:25:12.952 --> 00:25:13.716
wait a minute.

541
00:25:13.747 --> 00:25:17.279
There's something actually absolutely connected to theater.

542
00:25:18.310 --> 00:25:21.779
and is a path that...

543
00:25:22.110 --> 00:25:26.373
Maybe her ancestors went on that she is now getting to explore.

544
00:25:27.256 --> 00:25:28.276
And then finally,

545
00:25:28.877 --> 00:25:30.541
what looking at over the next 12 months,

546
00:25:30.697 --> 00:25:32.682
besides teaching as you are,

547
00:25:32.862 --> 00:25:34.666
is there a project,

548
00:25:34.744 --> 00:25:35.283
performance,

549
00:25:35.346 --> 00:25:36.487
anything that you're really,

550
00:25:37.002 --> 00:25:38.026
really looking forward to?

551
00:25:38.713 --> 00:25:38.932
Oh,

552
00:25:39.088 --> 00:25:39.385
yeah.

553
00:25:40.010 --> 00:25:40.213
Yeah.

554
00:25:40.604 --> 00:25:47.760
So one thing I realized about full-time teaching is the art is also a full-time job.

555
00:25:48.416 --> 00:25:48.541
So

556
00:25:49.104 --> 00:25:49.401
I'm... Ha ha.

557
00:25:49.966 --> 00:25:54.710
I'm really excited that there are two new productions of Stuck Elevator happening.

558
00:25:54.952 --> 00:25:55.730
Stuck Elevator.

559
00:25:57.195 --> 00:25:57.374
Oh,

560
00:25:57.452 --> 00:25:58.097
my gosh.

561
00:25:58.698 --> 00:25:58.855
Yeah.

562
00:25:58.956 --> 00:26:01.917
So the first university production is happening at San Jose

563
00:26:02.355 --> 00:26:03.159
State University.

564
00:26:03.761 --> 00:26:07.636
And then Opera Grand Rapids is also doing a new production.

565
00:26:07.917 --> 00:26:15.292
And Stuck Elevator is so close to my heart because it's the first of the trilogy that Eric and I worked on.

566
00:26:15.448 --> 00:26:16.495
And it's prompted.

567
00:26:16.938 --> 00:26:24.764
By the real experience of an undocumented immigrant who is trapped in a Bronx elevator for 81 hours.

568
00:26:25.108 --> 00:26:25.288
Yeah,

569
00:26:25.647 --> 00:26:25.764
so,

570
00:26:25.889 --> 00:26:26.170
you know,

571
00:26:26.210 --> 00:26:31.569
lighthearted musical operatic comedy.

572
00:26:32.733 --> 00:26:35.733
If you'd like to learn more about Byron and read this interview,

573
00:26:35.858 --> 00:26:39.655
just head to uncsa.edu slash artrestarts.

574
00:26:40.638 --> 00:26:42.819
If you enjoyed this or any of our episodes,

575
00:26:42.921 --> 00:26:48.104
it would be wonderful if you'd review us wherever you get your podcasts and or give us a rating.

576
00:26:49.007 --> 00:26:52.132
And please share this episode with anyone you think would enjoy it.

577
00:26:52.272 --> 00:26:55.671
You are the primary way in which we reach new listeners.

578
00:26:57.069 --> 00:27:00.179
Our theme music is by Shanghai Restoration Project.

579
00:27:00.913 --> 00:27:02.101
I'm Pierre Carlo Talenti,

580
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:04.819
and on behalf of the Kenan Institute for the Arts,

581
00:27:05.335 --> 00:27:06.179
thank you for listening.