WEBVTT

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Good evening everyone,

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 I am extremely impressed and intimidated to receive tonight the laureate of the Pulitzer Prize 2025 and the National Book Award 2024 Percival Everett for this book,

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 James,

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 published in the Olivier edition.

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 rewriting of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn,

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 the novel by Mark Twain,

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 published in 1884.

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 This restaurant was already opened.

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It's already old.

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This restaurant is older than Huckleberry Finn.

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 And your idea is to take a character from Huckleberry Finn,

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 Jim,

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 the slave,

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 and make him the hero.

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 Or the anti-hero of your book.

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 Well,

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 it's not a very original question,

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 but how did the idea come up in your mind?

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Well,

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 I wish I had a romantic answer for you.

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 For years it was burning inside me.

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You can lie.

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But it was not.

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 The truth is I was playing tennis.

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So,

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 it's romantic.

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Well,

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 you don't,

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 not with my partner.

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 And

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 I hit the ball sort of out of the court.

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 And as I watched the ball sail,

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 I thought to myself,

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 has anyone ever told the adventures of Huckleberry Finn from the point of view of Jim?

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Point of view,

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 yeah.

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And that's how it started.

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You know,

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 there are many

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 French writers who are rewriting.

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 masterpieces of the past.

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 Recently,

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 I had a guest in this show,

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 Adélaïde de Clermont-Tonnerre.

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 She rewrote the Three Musketeers from the point of view of Milady the woman.

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 Yeah,

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 and also there is another famous

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 French Franco-Algerian writer,

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 Kamel Daoud,

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 who rewrote

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 L'Étranger de Camus from the point of view of the Arab who is killed.

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 So it's in the air.

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 How do you explain that,

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 the desire to give new versions of great classics?

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Well,

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 I think some of us see these stories and see the voices that are missing.

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 Mark Twain was writing a novel about an adolescent white youth.

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 And he was not psychically or culturally equipped to write a novel about an adult black man experiencing America.

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 So it wasn't his job to do it.

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 But his depiction of the...

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 The enslaved Jim is deficient.

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 It's not a fully rounded character.

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 And so it's my attempt to have this,

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 to allow this character a vehicle for his voice.

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Yeah.

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 And it's more the original idea also that you had is to show a different Jim.

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 Jim is supposed to be simple minded.

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 He speaks like...

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 the slang of that era very simply,

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 and you make him very clever and very literary.

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 How did you decide that?

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Well,

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 you know,

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 the depiction of enslaved people,

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 enslaved Africans,

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 was that they were simple-minded and superstitious.

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 But being human beings,

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 I'm sure there were some who were simple-minded and superstitious,

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 but

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 There were many who entertained complex ideas despite their lack of literacy and education,

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 wondering why are we here,

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 what are we doing,

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 why is this happening to us in ways that were more than just eating and sleeping.

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 And so those characters are never given a place in the story.

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 And so I'm just trying to...

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The translation is extraordinary by Anne-Laure Tissu,

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 because it was an impossible job.

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 Jim speaks like in slang and how she recreated that in French.

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 I don't know if you read French.

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Well,

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 I don't read well enough to appreciate what she's done.

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 That's certainly true.

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 But she's a fantastic translator.

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For example,

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 in

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 American...

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 Jim speaks like that thing,

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 that thing,

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 things like the,

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 for the.

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 In French,

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 she found an idea to erase all the R's.

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 The

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 R's become...

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 Really?

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 Disappear,

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 yeah.

108
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 So it's like the African accent that is caricatured in,

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 for example,

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 Tintin au Congo.

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 You know Tintin au Congo?

112
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 Yes,

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 yes.

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 So the

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 They don't have the R's in the...

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 So she used that,

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 and it's perfect.

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 That's great.

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 It's great because you're always,

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 like,

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 shocked and laughing at the same time.

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 And really,

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 it's amazing.

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 You are describing the white world of this era with both comedy and fear.

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 Am I correct?

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Yes.

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 In other words,

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 the American experience for black people.

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Because you are,

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 yeah,

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 it's rare to laugh,

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 cry,

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 and be afraid at the same time that often in a book.

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 You know,

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 you're always laughing and crying at the same time.

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 It's like in the soul music,

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 I guess.

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 Is it a caricature to say that?

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No,

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 I don't think so.

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 There's something to that experience of the absurdity of life and viewing the world that you've been presented with,

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 ironically.

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Because slavery was surrealist,

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 was something absurd.

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 Oh,

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 it has to be,

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 yes.

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 In a way,

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 when I was reading James,

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 it was like reading a science fiction book,

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 you know?

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 It's so crazy to imagine that this really happened.

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 And it makes you laugh.

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 When you write,

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 you always tell jokes about this horror.

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You know what's funny about that is...

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 I never think I'm being funny.

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 I know I'm ironic,

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 but

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 I don't think I ever tell jokes,

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 but

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 I hope that the humor is in the story.

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Because Mark Twain was a humorist.

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 Yes,

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 very funny.

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 It was important for me.

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 I read

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 Huckleberry Finn when I was

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 13 or 14.

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 I don't know how it is in...

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 in the United States,

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 but here it's a book for young adults.

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 It's not read by old people.

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 So

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 I remember it was really a fun book with a lot of adventures and action,

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 and you kept all of this.

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 Your book is full of dialogues,

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 action,

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 it's moving all the time,

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 they are in the river,

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 they are in a boat.

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 You kept this tone of something that goes very quickly,

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 easy to read.

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Oh,

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 good.

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 I worked very hard to not adopt

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 Twain's prose,

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 but I wanted to...

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 I owed an allegiance to the world that he'd created.

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 And so that was the...

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 the truth that I sought.

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There's also a big irony in the scene of the black face.

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 So Jim is a black man,

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 and he's pretending to be a white disguised as a black.

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 Yes.

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 Which is,

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 maybe it's happened.

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 I don't know.

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 Oh,

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well,

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 there are two answers to that.

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 Well,

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 of course it's happened.

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 And maybe it's always happening.

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Yeah,

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 well,

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 it's interesting because it's also the subject of this book,

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 Erasure,

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 Effacement,

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 who is published now with a new translation in France by the same publisher.

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Yeah,

212
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 actually,

213
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 that's the same translation,

214
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 I believe.

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Ah,

216
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 okay,

217
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 I thought it was a new one.

218
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 Okay,

219
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 yeah,

220
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 it's the same.

221
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 Okay,

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 sometimes I'm wrong.

223
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 but not very often.

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I've heard that doesn't happen a lot.

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Thank you,

226
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 thank you.

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 Coming from you.

228
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 No,

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 Iraje is the story of a black writer,

230
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 monk,

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 who pretends...

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 to write slang and to please the white.

233
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 You know,

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 it's like doing...

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But he's doing it as a gag.

236
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 Yeah.

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But he has a lot of success with this.

238
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 Yes.

239
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 He writes a novel full of stereotypes,

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 clichés,

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 caricatures,

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 and it works.

243
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 And it's like

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 Jim in James 2.

245
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Yes.

246
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So...

247
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 You knew what you were doing.

248
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 You knew you would have the Pulitzer Prize.

249
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I didn't know that.

250
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No,

251
00:10:10.349 --> 00:10:10.669
 but it's...

252
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 You see what I mean?

253
00:10:12.794 --> 00:10:12.912
 Yeah,

254
00:10:12.913 --> 00:10:13.474
 I do.

255
00:10:13.716 --> 00:10:26.787
 You are too cultured not to play with all these expectations of the reader.

256
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the foundation of my interest in fiction is to exploit.

257
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 expectations to create meaning meaning out of what people want to see by having them reevaluate it even if they don't know they're reevaluating at first and also you you like to play with general like

258
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you wrote Western you wrote thriller or detective novels and now you rewrite Mark Twain here it's it's a writer who

259
00:11:02.160 --> 00:11:05.564
 writes the novel that people expect from him.

260
00:11:08.247 --> 00:11:11.927
 Why do you need this canva?

261
00:11:12.646 --> 00:11:13.333
 Comment dit canva,

262
00:11:13.888 --> 00:11:14.255
 Margot?

263
00:11:15.630 --> 00:11:15.833
 Canva?

264
00:11:15.935 --> 00:11:16.115
 Okay,

265
00:11:16.193 --> 00:11:16.591
 the same.

266
00:11:17.576 --> 00:11:22.380
 You need canvas to make your imagination work?

267
00:11:24.037 --> 00:11:24.162
No,

268
00:11:24.615 --> 00:11:28.912
 it's more that I'm fascinated by...

269
00:11:30.107 --> 00:11:32.209
 people's presumptions and expectations,

270
00:11:33.129 --> 00:11:35.274
 not only of a particular genre,

271
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 but of particular characters.

272
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 And sometimes genre will allow an avenue to those stereotypes that won't exist in a more realistic kind of...

273
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So

274
00:11:50.985 --> 00:11:53.313
 Jim likes to talk to Voltaire.

275
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Who wouldn't?

276
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In his dreams,

277
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 he's having conversations with Voltaire.

278
00:12:01.990 --> 00:12:05.014
 But do you know that Voltaire is cancelled in France now?

279
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I didn't know that.

280
00:12:07.396 --> 00:12:11.201
There is a statue of Voltaire right next door of this place.

281
00:12:11.654 --> 00:12:15.170
 And it has been vandalized because

282
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 Voltaire made money with La Compagnie des Indes,

283
00:12:19.670 --> 00:12:21.076
 who had slave trade.

284
00:12:21.842 --> 00:12:21.951
 So,

285
00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:23.076
 Voltaire.

286
00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:26.120
 of course was against slavery,

287
00:12:26.281 --> 00:12:28.765
 but he took the money from slavery.

288
00:12:30.566 --> 00:12:34.031
And that's sort of the story of slavery.

289
00:12:36.671 --> 00:12:36.788
 The

290
00:12:37.531 --> 00:12:38.452
 Northern States,

291
00:12:40.741 --> 00:12:43.538
 the Civil War in the United States really wasn't about slavery.

292
00:12:45.695 --> 00:12:46.960
 Though there were abolitionists,

293
00:12:47.382 --> 00:12:48.866
 many of the abolitionists

294
00:12:49.451 --> 00:12:52.175
 were profiting from slavery.

295
00:12:53.015 --> 00:12:53.515
 Slaves,

296
00:12:53.874 --> 00:12:56.597
 people carried mortgages on slaves.

297
00:12:57.636 --> 00:13:02.683
 And so banks in Europe benefited from slavery.

298
00:13:02.745 --> 00:13:14.315
 So being opposed to the institution outwardly really didn't say much unless you were divesting yourself from it.

299
00:13:14.550 --> 00:13:18.815
But do you think this civil war still goes on?

300
00:13:19.483 --> 00:13:19.803
 Today,

301
00:13:20.224 --> 00:13:24.810
 when you see that there was a guy shot and killed yesterday...

302
00:13:25.068 --> 00:13:25.587
Well,

303
00:13:25.588 --> 00:13:25.751
 you know,

304
00:13:25.752 --> 00:13:26.829
 we don't know who shot him.

305
00:13:28.790 --> 00:13:30.251
 He was obviously a disturbed person.

306
00:13:31.978 --> 00:13:35.282
 But the right wing,

307
00:13:35.283 --> 00:13:35.767
 of course,

308
00:13:35.814 --> 00:13:44.751
 in the United States will politicize this and attempt to show that it's the left attacking the right.

309
00:13:47.811 --> 00:13:49.191
The opposite exists also.

310
00:13:50.552 --> 00:13:52.853
Yes,

311
00:13:53.091 --> 00:13:57.329
 but strangely it doesn't get the glamour that this is getting.

312
00:13:59.173 --> 00:14:11.384
 Just today my friend Margot mentioned the Pulse nightclub killings in Florida.

313
00:14:11.603 --> 00:14:11.744
Yeah,

314
00:14:11.837 --> 00:14:12.462
 exactly.

315
00:14:13.903 --> 00:14:14.884
That's a political killing.

316
00:14:14.903 --> 00:14:18.022
 When someone goes in because they hate gay people and they start shooting people,

317
00:14:18.323 --> 00:14:18.866
 that's political,

318
00:14:18.905 --> 00:14:20.964
 but that was never called a political killing.

319
00:14:21.901 --> 00:14:22.565
It should have,

320
00:14:22.964 --> 00:14:23.089
 and

321
00:14:23.706 --> 00:14:25.323
 I think there still is a problem,

322
00:14:25.448 --> 00:14:26.628
 but not only in America,

323
00:14:27.487 --> 00:14:28.370
 maybe everywhere,

324
00:14:30.401 --> 00:14:33.682
 like civil war is still going on.

325
00:14:34.714 --> 00:14:34.964
Well,

326
00:14:35.089 --> 00:14:37.807
 we've lost the capacity for political discussion,

327
00:14:37.932 --> 00:14:39.073
 for political discourse.

328
00:14:40.589 --> 00:14:42.432
 What passes for it is polarization.

329
00:14:43.947 --> 00:14:44.367
Exactly.

330
00:14:44.887 --> 00:14:45.007
 So,

331
00:14:47.688 --> 00:14:48.666
 the taboo question.

332
00:14:49.370 --> 00:14:50.850
 You received all these awards.

333
00:14:53.690 --> 00:14:54.705
 Was it calculated?

334
00:14:57.151 --> 00:14:57.393
 You know,

335
00:14:57.791 --> 00:14:59.127
I have problems with awards.

336
00:15:00.088 --> 00:15:03.151
 The invidious comparisons of works of art is a bad idea.

337
00:15:05.135 --> 00:15:05.526
 I know,

338
00:15:05.838 --> 00:15:09.151
 having served on so many of these juries,

339
00:15:09.213 --> 00:15:09.432
 that...

340
00:15:10.712 --> 00:15:13.414
 If the committee had met on a Thursday rather than a Wednesday,

341
00:15:13.494 --> 00:15:15.017
 someone else would have had the award.

342
00:15:15.377 --> 00:15:16.736
 That's just the way they go.

343
00:15:18.142 --> 00:15:20.080
 It doesn't make the book any better than it is.

344
00:15:22.322 --> 00:15:23.806
 The only thing I can say is

345
00:15:25.447 --> 00:15:27.048
 I would love to win an award every week.

346
00:15:27.252 --> 00:15:30.173
 It feels good.

347
00:15:30.548 --> 00:15:32.752
 But more people have come to the book because of it.

348
00:15:34.455 --> 00:15:36.673
 What I'm excited about is this novel,

349
00:15:36.814 --> 00:15:37.845
 at least in the U.S.

350
00:15:37.892 --> 00:15:38.720
 and in the U.K.,

351
00:15:40.089 --> 00:15:41.410
 has received a lot of attention.

352
00:15:41.430 --> 00:15:46.474
 It's a literary novel that's received a lot of attention.

353
00:15:46.537 --> 00:15:48.881
 I would be happy if it was any literary novel.

354
00:15:48.896 --> 00:15:51.701
 It just happens to be mine this time.

355
00:15:52.302 --> 00:15:53.545
 So that's kind of exciting.

356
00:15:56.763 --> 00:15:57.560
Mark Twain,

357
00:15:58.013 --> 00:15:58.670
 maybe in a way,

358
00:15:58.671 --> 00:15:59.435
 is like Voltaire,

359
00:15:59.685 --> 00:16:00.091
 because

360
00:16:01.310 --> 00:16:05.310
 Jim escapes because of his white friends.

361
00:16:05.857 --> 00:16:06.529
 They help him.

362
00:16:07.576 --> 00:16:07.935
 In a way,

363
00:16:07.998 --> 00:16:08.654
 they save him.

364
00:16:10.418 --> 00:16:11.319
 But then he makes

365
00:16:11.800 --> 00:16:12.921
 Jim talk like,

366
00:16:15.204 --> 00:16:16.544
 in French we say petit nègre.

367
00:16:16.564 --> 00:16:19.806
 I don't know how you would translate this in

368
00:16:20.165 --> 00:16:21.024
 American. I don't know.

369
00:16:21.165 --> 00:16:21.806
Best not to.

370
00:16:24.009 --> 00:16:25.978
So it's ambivalent.

371
00:16:26.134 --> 00:16:27.056
 Mark Twain was,

372
00:16:27.571 --> 00:16:28.962
 maybe he was for freedom,

373
00:16:29.243 --> 00:16:34.884
 but he also a little bit despised this character.

374
00:16:35.321 --> 00:16:35.478
Well,

375
00:16:35.479 --> 00:16:36.821
 he was a product of his period.

376
00:16:36.962 --> 00:16:37.306
 Yeah.

377
00:16:37.728 --> 00:16:38.181
 Yeah.

378
00:16:40.077 --> 00:16:43.460
 What is more distressing to me is that I always thought that

379
00:16:44.222 --> 00:16:45.925
 Twain was basically a decent person,

380
00:16:46.804 --> 00:16:51.827
 not having benefited from another 140 years of so-called human evolution,

381
00:16:52.608 --> 00:16:55.054
 but having read more,

382
00:16:56.311 --> 00:16:58.921
 in particular from a book by a woman named

383
00:16:59.374 --> 00:17:00.171
 Carrie Driscoll,

384
00:17:03.468 --> 00:17:03.827
 about

385
00:17:04.327 --> 00:17:07.702
 Twain's opinions.

386
00:17:08.401 --> 00:17:10.443
 Regarding Native Americans,

387
00:17:13.328 --> 00:17:14.949
 he's fallen in my estimation.

388
00:17:17.093 --> 00:17:24.258
 He was an incredible bigot and prejudiced and without any sympathy for the plight of

389
00:17:24.625 --> 00:17:25.172
 Native people.

390
00:17:26.172 --> 00:17:26.437
 And so

391
00:17:26.859 --> 00:17:30.968
 I have been reassessing my feelings about Twain.

392
00:17:30.969 --> 00:17:31.218
Maybe,

393
00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:31.765
 I guess,

394
00:17:31.968 --> 00:17:35.328
 he was nicer to the black because...

395
00:17:35.825 --> 00:17:39.748
 Uncle Tom's Cabin was published 30 years before Huckleberry

396
00:17:40.111 --> 00:17:41.131
 Finn. Well,

397
00:17:41.132 --> 00:17:41.412
you know,

398
00:17:41.830 --> 00:17:48.096
 the difference between those works like that one and other narratives was that,

399
00:17:48.736 --> 00:17:49.400
 and what makes

400
00:17:50.877 --> 00:17:58.111
 Huckleberry Finn an important American novel is that it's a novel about an enslaved person,

401
00:17:59.189 --> 00:18:01.549
 but it's not a novel about slavery.

402
00:18:02.629 --> 00:18:05.231
 And that's a distinction to be made.

403
00:18:05.251 --> 00:18:06.372
 So in that way,

404
00:18:07.153 --> 00:18:08.856
 it's a more true work of art.

405
00:18:13.356 --> 00:18:19.552
I said it's amazing how you make fun of such a painful history.

406
00:18:22.942 --> 00:18:25.130
 But you're also very good at action scenes.

407
00:18:26.145 --> 00:18:27.427
 The weeping of a boy,

408
00:18:28.130 --> 00:18:29.255
 running in the woods,

409
00:18:30.161 --> 00:18:30.817
 shootings,

410
00:18:30.942 --> 00:18:31.583
 dialogues.

411
00:18:31.825 --> 00:18:33.926
 Swimming in the Mississippi River.

412
00:18:36.287 --> 00:18:36.405
 And

413
00:18:36.787 --> 00:18:43.225
 I've heard that Steven Spielberg might buy the rights to make a blockbuster of James.

414
00:18:43.787 --> 00:18:44.311
 Is it true?

415
00:18:45.631 --> 00:18:45.748
Well,

416
00:18:45.749 --> 00:18:52.834
 it's certainly true that Steven and I have signed contracts and we're trying to make a movie.

417
00:18:53.772 --> 00:18:55.272
 Whether it will be a blockbuster,

418
00:18:56.975 --> 00:18:57.334
we'll see.

419
00:18:57.335 --> 00:18:57.647
 I mean,

420
00:18:57.648 --> 00:18:59.084
 a spectacular action,

421
00:18:59.537 --> 00:19:00.725
 because it's full of...

422
00:19:01.725 --> 00:19:03.086
 suspense in this book.

423
00:19:03.647 --> 00:19:06.993
 It's a guy who's trying to escape and escape death.

424
00:19:07.410 --> 00:19:11.235
Well I'm very excited because if we make it I get to blow up a riverboat.

425
00:19:15.118 --> 00:19:18.602
And there is a horribly moving scene about a pencil.

426
00:19:19.664 --> 00:19:20.164
 Pencil,

427
00:19:20.383 --> 00:19:21.430
 faber and faber.

428
00:19:23.180 --> 00:19:27.836
 Owning a pencil was a crime in those days.

429
00:19:28.055 --> 00:19:28.774
 It was because...

430
00:19:29.901 --> 00:19:31.942
 Was it because it's a symbol of freedom?

431
00:19:32.981 --> 00:19:33.202
Well,

432
00:19:33.203 --> 00:19:41.585
 it's a symbol of literacy and therefore a symbol of threat to the status quo.

433
00:19:42.022 --> 00:19:48.272
And the pencil has an important role because you say...

434
00:19:49.850 --> 00:19:50.085
 Wait,

435
00:19:51.569 --> 00:19:53.210
 I lost everything in my paper...

436
00:19:54.789 --> 00:19:55.030
 Ah oui,

437
00:19:55.511 --> 00:19:56.071
 you say,

438
00:19:56.571 --> 00:19:59.454
 with my pencil I wrote myself into being,

439
00:19:59.974 --> 00:20:02.095
 and the translation by Anne-Laure Tissu,

440
00:20:02.774 --> 00:20:05.743
 avec mon crayon je me suis mis au monde par l'écriture.

441
00:20:08.766 --> 00:20:15.485
 It's beautiful what you think that writing gives birth to a human.

442
00:20:16.735 --> 00:20:16.970
Yes,

443
00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:17.235
 well,

444
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:24.095
 one's voice is how we exist in the world.

445
00:20:25.125 --> 00:20:27.245
 And literacy,

446
00:20:28.145 --> 00:20:31.567
 the ability to express ideas and to receive them is...

447
00:20:31.587 --> 00:20:35.931
 I cannot understate,

448
00:20:35.932 --> 00:20:37.704
 I cannot overstate the importance of that.

449
00:20:38.345 --> 00:20:41.509
Because you're a professor at the University of

450
00:20:42.134 --> 00:20:43.087
 South California,

451
00:20:43.431 --> 00:20:44.774
 professor of English.

452
00:20:45.634 --> 00:20:45.852
I am.

453
00:20:47.788 --> 00:20:52.833
 But that's not why I say it.

454
00:20:52.853 --> 00:20:55.177
 Because it's simply true.

455
00:20:56.739 --> 00:20:59.724
So Jim is saved because he's reading and writing.

456
00:21:02.099 --> 00:21:02.380
Yes.

457
00:21:04.099 --> 00:21:05.052
 I think that's fair to say.

458
00:21:07.411 --> 00:21:10.708
I have a game in my show.

459
00:21:11.474 --> 00:21:11.864
 It's called

460
00:21:12.427 --> 00:21:13.911
 Guess Your Own Quotes.

461
00:21:14.692 --> 00:21:15.755
 I'm going to read you.

462
00:21:16.072 --> 00:21:16.212
Well,

463
00:21:16.213 --> 00:21:19.555
 I have to tell you that I forget my books as soon as I finish them.

464
00:21:20.477 --> 00:21:21.399
That's what they all say.

465
00:21:21.516 --> 00:21:22.516
I'm going to do terribly.

466
00:21:22.618 --> 00:21:22.739
 No,

467
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:23.001
no,

468
00:21:23.157 --> 00:21:23.641
 no.

469
00:21:24.423 --> 00:21:28.001
 You have to tell me in which book you wrote this sentence.

470
00:21:28.587 --> 00:21:28.704
 Oh,

471
00:21:28.705 --> 00:21:29.407
 man.

472
00:21:29.408 --> 00:21:29.845
 Are you ready?

473
00:21:30.610 --> 00:21:30.845
Okay,

474
00:21:31.009 --> 00:21:31.548
 let's try it.

475
00:21:31.587 --> 00:21:31.704
 No,

476
00:21:32.009 --> 00:21:33.657
I'm sure you will be good.

477
00:21:34.970 --> 00:21:35.266
 Read,

478
00:21:35.438 --> 00:21:36.188
 always read.

479
00:21:36.313 --> 00:21:38.126
 No one can take that away from you.

480
00:21:47.308 --> 00:21:47.568
You're right,

481
00:21:47.569 --> 00:21:47.708
 sure.

482
00:21:48.609 --> 00:21:49.371
I am not Sidney Poitier.

483
00:21:49.372 --> 00:21:50.992
 I am not Sidney Poitier.

484
00:21:51.314 --> 00:21:52.033
 I'm not Sidney Poitier.

485
00:21:52.034 --> 00:21:52.572
I was close.

486
00:21:52.573 --> 00:21:53.416
 It was a book I wrote.

487
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:57.322
You're reading,

488
00:21:58.220 --> 00:21:59.962
 you're teaching literature,

489
00:22:00.064 --> 00:22:03.087
 and you think reading is disappearing in America?

490
00:22:05.572 --> 00:22:08.369
I don't think reading has ever had a huge presence in America.

491
00:22:08.370 --> 00:22:11.447
 You know,

492
00:22:13.072 --> 00:22:14.134
 a few weeks ago I was...

493
00:22:16.448 --> 00:22:18.028
 speaking in an auditorium,

494
00:22:18.948 --> 00:22:19.188
 about

495
00:22:19.569 --> 00:22:20.388
 2,000 people.

496
00:22:22.110 --> 00:22:25.552
 And they'd all shown up because of books.

497
00:22:27.708 --> 00:22:30.614
 And in talking to them,

498
00:22:31.450 --> 00:22:31.786
 I said,

499
00:22:31.833 --> 00:22:32.099
 you know,

500
00:22:32.864 --> 00:22:34.177
 don't be seduced by this.

501
00:22:34.896 --> 00:22:36.067
 We're all in here,

502
00:22:36.114 --> 00:22:37.067
 we all love books,

503
00:22:37.146 --> 00:22:38.599
 and it feels really good.

504
00:22:40.380 --> 00:22:41.692
 But we're a fraction.

505
00:22:42.516 --> 00:22:44.799
 tiny fraction of this culture.

506
00:22:48.842 --> 00:22:49.084
 When,

507
00:22:50.842 --> 00:22:55.389
 if my publisher sells 50,000 copies of my book,

508
00:22:56.272 --> 00:22:57.014
 it's a success.

509
00:22:57.233 --> 00:22:57.670
 It's great.

510
00:22:58.975 --> 00:22:59.709
 On the other hand,

511
00:23:00.381 --> 00:23:05.334
 if I were to record an album and I sold 50,000 records,

512
00:23:05.772 --> 00:23:07.194
 I would never record again.

513
00:23:08.928 --> 00:23:09.209
 Yes,

514
00:23:09.210 --> 00:23:10.537
 that puts it into perspective.

515
00:23:10.709 --> 00:23:10.897
Yes,

516
00:23:10.959 --> 00:23:11.444
 it's true.

517
00:23:12.721 --> 00:23:12.942
 Okay,

518
00:23:12.981 --> 00:23:13.961
 another sentence by you.

519
00:23:14.602 --> 00:23:14.803
Okay.

520
00:23:15.883 --> 00:23:17.848
Which would frighten you more,

521
00:23:17.906 --> 00:23:21.832
 a slave who is crazy or a slave who is sane and sees you clearly?

522
00:23:22.692 --> 00:23:22.809
Well,

523
00:23:22.848 --> 00:23:23.715
 that's pretty easy.

524
00:23:23.731 --> 00:23:23.934
 Yeah.

525
00:23:23.935 --> 00:23:24.113
 Yeah.

526
00:23:25.035 --> 00:23:25.395
James,

527
00:23:25.637 --> 00:23:25.996
 James.

528
00:23:27.949 --> 00:23:28.434
 Another one.

529
00:23:29.871 --> 00:23:30.496
 There is a trap.

530
00:23:31.887 --> 00:23:38.965
 What's the use you learning to do right when it's troublesome to do right and it ain't no trouble to do wrong?

531
00:23:42.380 --> 00:23:43.341
I have no idea,

532
00:23:43.342 --> 00:23:44.562
 I don't even remember writing that.

533
00:23:44.563 --> 00:23:46.124
It's Mark Twain in

534
00:23:46.984 --> 00:23:49.488
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

535
00:23:49.745 --> 00:23:50.206
 Now you're,

536
00:23:50.347 --> 00:23:50.550
 well,

537
00:23:51.386 --> 00:23:52.066
 two answers to that.

538
00:23:52.230 --> 00:23:52.511
 One is,

539
00:23:52.753 --> 00:23:55.511
 you told me the rules of the game were these were from my book.

540
00:23:55.512 --> 00:23:55.691
 Yes,

541
00:23:55.933 --> 00:23:56.214
it's true.

542
00:23:56.417 --> 00:23:57.433
 I told you it was a trap.

543
00:23:57.972 --> 00:23:59.597
 I am totally not honest.

544
00:23:59.613 --> 00:24:00.816
But I have to say that

545
00:24:01.456 --> 00:24:01.941
 I read

546
00:24:02.316 --> 00:24:03.222
 Twain's novel.

547
00:24:03.956 --> 00:24:04.957
 many times in a row,

548
00:24:05.098 --> 00:24:07.160
 so that I would forget all of the texts,

549
00:24:07.161 --> 00:24:09.063
 and I don't remember any of that book either.

550
00:24:10.121 --> 00:24:11.145
It doesn't matter.

551
00:24:11.906 --> 00:24:12.406
 Don't worry.

552
00:24:13.242 --> 00:24:13.445
 Now,

553
00:24:14.328 --> 00:24:14.828
 another one.

554
00:24:14.969 --> 00:24:18.031
 The world demands that you introduce yourself twice,

555
00:24:18.328 --> 00:24:19.133
 first as you are,

556
00:24:19.453 --> 00:24:21.414
 and second as you are told to be.

557
00:24:24.492 --> 00:24:24.852
 Aha.

558
00:24:26.848 --> 00:24:27.288
 But you know,

559
00:24:28.108 --> 00:24:31.049
 my English is so bad and my accent makes you...

560
00:24:31.588 --> 00:24:32.928
 it's more difficult for you.

561
00:24:33.428 --> 00:24:33.549
Oh,

562
00:24:33.550 --> 00:24:34.549
 thank you for the excuse,

563
00:24:34.568 --> 00:24:34.689
 but...

564
00:24:34.728 --> 00:24:36.389
What is that?

565
00:24:36.873 --> 00:24:36.990
Oh,

566
00:24:36.991 --> 00:24:37.670
 is that from Eurasia?

567
00:24:37.748 --> 00:24:38.014
Yes,

568
00:24:38.053 --> 00:24:38.834
 it's from Eurasia.

569
00:24:39.873 --> 00:24:41.334
 You must introduce yourself twice,

570
00:24:41.412 --> 00:24:42.170
 first as you are,

571
00:24:42.232 --> 00:24:43.654
 and second as you are told to be.

572
00:24:43.889 --> 00:24:44.014
Oh,

573
00:24:44.045 --> 00:24:45.607
 that's right there on the cover of the book.

574
00:24:50.076 --> 00:24:50.326
Also,

575
00:24:51.467 --> 00:24:53.811
 another sentence by you.

576
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:58.023
 It's incredible that a sentence is ever understood.

577
00:25:03.269 --> 00:25:07.136
I'm going to guess that's from Glyph.

578
00:25:07.152 --> 00:25:07.550
Erasure.

579
00:25:07.597 --> 00:25:07.933
 Erasure,

580
00:25:08.292 --> 00:25:08.417
OK.

581
00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:11.894
I'm really winning all the time,

582
00:25:12.316 --> 00:25:13.394
 and it feels so good.

583
00:25:17.556 --> 00:25:17.676
 So,

584
00:25:17.937 --> 00:25:18.277
 oh yeah,

585
00:25:18.797 --> 00:25:19.397
 another one.

586
00:25:19.678 --> 00:25:19.819
 Oh,

587
00:25:19.979 --> 00:25:20.921
 it's from the same.

588
00:25:21.120 --> 00:25:21.241
Oh,

589
00:25:21.260 --> 00:25:21.620
okay.

590
00:25:21.979 --> 00:25:25.424
 She worried about how she looked while making love.

591
00:25:25.526 --> 00:25:26.128
 I love this.

592
00:25:26.542 --> 00:25:29.565
 She worried about how she looked while making love.

593
00:25:29.885 --> 00:25:33.339
 And you define this as postmodern fuck.

594
00:25:34.135 --> 00:25:34.245
 Yes.

595
00:25:34.557 --> 00:25:39.120
 The postmodern way of having sex is to deconstruct sex,

596
00:25:39.635 --> 00:25:39.979
right?

597
00:25:40.151 --> 00:25:40.745
 During sex.

598
00:25:43.339 --> 00:25:43.557
Yeah.

599
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:46.481
 Another one,

600
00:25:47.241 --> 00:25:48.622
 I stopped torturing you after.

601
00:25:49.806 --> 00:25:52.228
 I was a fighter of windmills.

602
00:25:52.767 --> 00:25:54.485
 I was a chaser of whales.

603
00:26:00.915 --> 00:26:03.321
 There is an actor's name in the title.

604
00:26:04.259 --> 00:26:05.821
Oh,

605
00:26:05.822 --> 00:26:07.056
 is that I am not Sidney Poitier?

606
00:26:07.259 --> 00:26:07.509
 Okay.

607
00:26:09.087 --> 00:26:12.165
But maybe now after

608
00:26:12.649 --> 00:26:13.103
 Mark Twain,

609
00:26:13.149 --> 00:26:14.524
 you could rewrite Moby Dick.

610
00:26:15.024 --> 00:26:17.407
 With the whale seeking revenge.

611
00:26:21.349 --> 00:26:24.111
I just talked to a young writer who was doing this.

612
00:26:24.251 --> 00:26:24.376
 Oh,

613
00:26:24.431 --> 00:26:24.611
 really?

614
00:26:24.775 --> 00:26:25.032
 Yes.

615
00:26:25.376 --> 00:26:27.720
 I won't say his name because I don't want to jinx it for him,

616
00:26:27.736 --> 00:26:31.103
 but he is a talented young man.

617
00:26:31.978 --> 00:26:32.837
Or you could rewrite

618
00:26:33.243 --> 00:26:33.837
 Donkey Shot.

619
00:26:34.837 --> 00:26:34.962
 Oh,

620
00:26:35.009 --> 00:26:35.118
 yes.

621
00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:37.712
 With Sancho Ponsa is the winner.

622
00:26:38.806 --> 00:26:38.993
Yes,

623
00:26:39.353 --> 00:26:39.915
 that's very true.

624
00:26:42.025 --> 00:26:43.353
So I have a...

625
00:26:43.464 --> 00:26:47.630
 Different questionnaires to end this conversation.

626
00:26:49.251 --> 00:26:50.032
 One is about you,

627
00:26:50.091 --> 00:26:52.333
 because you're an important professor,

628
00:26:53.536 --> 00:26:54.973
 about your favorite books.

629
00:26:56.098 --> 00:26:59.786
 Can you tell me the title of a book that makes you cry?

630
00:27:12.080 --> 00:27:13.140
The Way of All Flesh,

631
00:27:14.581 --> 00:27:16.280
 Samuel Butler's novel,

632
00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:19.620
 which is one of my favorite works,

633
00:27:19.760 --> 00:27:29.909
 and the tenderness that he uses in describing a certain relationship in the novel.

634
00:27:35.268 --> 00:27:36.221
 And it's also,

635
00:27:37.003 --> 00:27:37.331
 but it's...

636
00:27:39.452 --> 00:27:41.172
 I find it's like listening to music.

637
00:27:41.252 --> 00:27:41.793
 Sometimes

638
00:27:42.233 --> 00:27:43.012
 I will cry,

639
00:27:43.133 --> 00:27:47.516
 not because of the circumstances or what happens to someone,

640
00:27:48.094 --> 00:27:49.711
 but just the language itself.

641
00:27:53.133 --> 00:27:55.477
 And it can be a small turn of phrase,

642
00:27:55.696 --> 00:27:56.899
 something that I hadn't thought of.

643
00:27:58.180 --> 00:28:00.243
 I cry because it moves me.

644
00:28:00.244 --> 00:28:01.977
 I also cry because I didn't think of it.

645
00:28:09.445 --> 00:28:10.547
 But generally speaking,

646
00:28:11.649 --> 00:28:14.672
 I don't cry and I don't laugh at things that are really funny.

647
00:28:15.672 --> 00:28:16.652
 I find them really funny,

648
00:28:17.715 --> 00:28:17.871
 but

649
00:28:18.832 --> 00:28:19.418
 I don't laugh.

650
00:28:20.738 --> 00:28:20.856
Me,

651
00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:24.020
 the last sentence of your book made me cry.

652
00:28:24.582 --> 00:28:25.426
 Mon nom est James.

653
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:26.676
 James quoi?

654
00:28:27.426 --> 00:28:28.223
 Just James.

655
00:28:29.738 --> 00:28:30.504
 Because finally,

656
00:28:31.504 --> 00:28:33.863
 Jim has another name.

657
00:28:34.910 --> 00:28:35.363
 Like he was...

658
00:28:37.684 --> 00:28:37.805
 Well,

659
00:28:37.865 --> 00:28:39.968
 that makes me very happy.

660
00:28:40.247 --> 00:28:41.108
And as a writer,

661
00:28:41.768 --> 00:28:43.171
 I never get to feel those things,

662
00:28:43.172 --> 00:28:47.573
 because I'm living with this story every day for a couple of years.

663
00:28:48.151 --> 00:28:50.761
 And the kind of emotion,

664
00:28:51.300 --> 00:28:52.339
 all the emotion,

665
00:28:52.456 --> 00:28:53.862
 even though I wanted to be there,

666
00:28:53.956 --> 00:28:55.018
 is taken out for me,

667
00:28:55.800 --> 00:28:58.331
 because I've already imagined it by the time I've written it.

668
00:29:00.392 --> 00:29:00.532
Well,

669
00:29:00.632 --> 00:29:03.476
 I am more lucky than you because I read it and he didn't write it.

670
00:29:05.737 --> 00:29:05.858
 So,

671
00:29:05.937 --> 00:29:07.140
 a book to stop crying.

672
00:29:13.683 --> 00:29:14.745
Does it have to be fiction?

673
00:29:15.323 --> 00:29:15.448
No.

674
00:29:15.964 --> 00:29:17.089
 A book that,

675
00:29:18.136 --> 00:29:18.808
 after reading

676
00:29:19.214 --> 00:29:22.730
 Butler, you read that and you stop crying.

677
00:29:25.605 --> 00:29:25.730
Well,

678
00:29:25.933 --> 00:29:28.339
 another book that makes me cry is...

679
00:29:31.735 --> 00:29:31.934
 Again,

680
00:29:31.953 --> 00:29:32.715
 for the beauty of it,

681
00:29:32.735 --> 00:29:34.098
 it's Chester Himes,

682
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:35.200
 If He Hollers,

683
00:29:35.258 --> 00:29:35.676
 Let Him Go.

684
00:29:36.418 --> 00:29:40.801
 But a book that makes me stop crying is one that's going to make me sound like the nerd that I am,

685
00:29:41.582 --> 00:29:44.145
 which is actually a logical text.

686
00:29:44.270 --> 00:29:44.489
 It's

687
00:29:47.575 --> 00:29:50.075
 Bertrand Russell and Alfred North Whitehead's

688
00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:51.887
 Principia Mathematica,

689
00:29:52.653 --> 00:29:52.887
 which

690
00:29:53.637 --> 00:29:54.621
 I find beautiful.

691
00:29:55.184 --> 00:29:56.340
 It's a gorgeous book.

692
00:29:56.465 --> 00:29:57.293
 and if I feel

693
00:29:59.856 --> 00:30:00.736
sad in any way,

694
00:30:01.576 --> 00:30:03.898
 I read that because it's hard.

695
00:30:07.078 --> 00:30:10.117
 And it occupies my brain.

696
00:30:10.118 --> 00:30:10.242
Yeah,

697
00:30:10.656 --> 00:30:11.859
 you have to concentrate.

698
00:30:12.398 --> 00:30:12.515
 Yeah,

699
00:30:12.562 --> 00:30:12.961
 exactly.

700
00:30:14.398 --> 00:30:16.703
 A book to brag in the street,

701
00:30:16.875 --> 00:30:17.140
 you know,

702
00:30:17.156 --> 00:30:18.187
 you walk in the street,

703
00:30:18.218 --> 00:30:19.656
 you want to look cool.

704
00:30:19.657 --> 00:30:19.703
 Oh,

705
00:30:19.704 --> 00:30:20.656
look cool?

706
00:30:20.843 --> 00:30:23.984
 Any of my wife's novels.

707
00:30:25.734 --> 00:30:26.656
 People think I'm cool.

708
00:30:29.232 --> 00:30:29.352
 No,

709
00:30:30.714 --> 00:30:31.153
 I don't know.

710
00:30:31.395 --> 00:30:32.475
 The famous photograph,

711
00:30:32.476 --> 00:30:32.856
 of course,

712
00:30:32.876 --> 00:30:34.259
 is Marilyn Monroe sitting,

713
00:30:35.938 --> 00:30:36.259
 reading

714
00:30:36.841 --> 00:30:38.141
 James Joyce's Ulysses.

715
00:30:40.001 --> 00:30:40.165
Yeah,

716
00:30:40.626 --> 00:30:41.024
 Ulysses,

717
00:30:41.766 --> 00:30:42.782
 you look more than cool.

718
00:30:42.884 --> 00:30:44.891
 You look like someone who likes to suffer.

719
00:30:44.985 --> 00:30:46.001
Well,

720
00:30:46.063 --> 00:30:47.063
 ever since that photograph,

721
00:30:47.064 --> 00:30:47.938
 you look like a jerk.

722
00:30:50.657 --> 00:30:50.766
 No,

723
00:30:51.001 --> 00:30:53.969
 I can't think of any book like that.

724
00:30:55.251 --> 00:30:55.438
Well,

725
00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:57.485
 a book that makes you clever.

726
00:30:58.728 --> 00:30:58.848
Oh,

727
00:30:58.988 --> 00:31:00.170
 that makes me clever.

728
00:31:02.213 --> 00:31:03.974
 Not makes me perceived as clever,

729
00:31:04.033 --> 00:31:04.834
 but makes me clever.

730
00:31:05.353 --> 00:31:05.916
 Which would be

731
00:31:08.216 --> 00:31:09.896
 Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll.

732
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:10.060
Ah.

733
00:31:13.021 --> 00:31:15.130
 A book to seduce a woman.

734
00:31:18.302 --> 00:31:20.474
 I know it doesn't exist in America anymore.

735
00:31:20.662 --> 00:31:20.787
Yeah,

736
00:31:20.788 --> 00:31:21.084
 I know.

737
00:31:21.865 --> 00:31:23.630
It's forbidden to seduce,

738
00:31:23.709 --> 00:31:23.912
 but...

739
00:31:39.060 --> 00:31:39.560
Gee,

740
00:31:39.579 --> 00:31:42.524
 I think if a woman were to come in and see me reading this book,

741
00:31:44.103 --> 00:31:44.587
she would think,

742
00:31:44.649 --> 00:31:44.767
 oh,

743
00:31:44.868 --> 00:31:45.767
 this guy is great.

744
00:31:46.267 --> 00:31:48.728
 This guy is so sensitive.

745
00:31:49.110 --> 00:31:55.392
I think it would be something like The Velveteen Rabbit or some other children's book.

746
00:31:56.501 --> 00:31:58.782
 That would at least give me the appearance of being innocent.

747
00:32:01.932 --> 00:32:04.273
A book that I regret having read?

748
00:32:05.736 --> 00:32:07.617
I don't regret having read any book.

749
00:32:09.621 --> 00:32:14.441
 There have been many books I've read and did not like them,

750
00:32:14.988 --> 00:32:16.769
 but I've learned something from everything

751
00:32:17.605 --> 00:32:17.988
 I've read.

752
00:32:18.926 --> 00:32:19.754
 As I get older,

753
00:32:20.254 --> 00:32:23.488
 there are books I will not finish,

754
00:32:23.957 --> 00:32:26.051
 because life is too short.

755
00:32:30.428 --> 00:32:34.092
 I don't think there's such a thing as a bad book.

756
00:32:34.651 --> 00:32:34.772
No,

757
00:32:34.893 --> 00:32:35.252
 but I mean,

758
00:32:35.752 --> 00:32:37.756
 some people answered to this question,

759
00:32:37.936 --> 00:32:38.518
 Mein Kampf,

760
00:32:38.955 --> 00:32:39.455
 for example,

761
00:32:39.541 --> 00:32:41.236
 I regret having read Mein Kampf,

762
00:32:41.276 --> 00:32:41.518
 you know.

763
00:32:42.080 --> 00:32:42.643
Why regret?

764
00:32:42.658 --> 00:32:44.565
 It explains a lot to me.

765
00:32:45.682 --> 00:32:45.986
 Again,

766
00:32:46.447 --> 00:32:47.729
 I learn from everything.

767
00:32:48.963 --> 00:32:52.604
 I come away reading the back of a cereal box.

768
00:32:54.151 --> 00:32:56.354
 I come away knowing something I didn't know before.

769
00:32:57.135 --> 00:32:57.432
Okay.

770
00:33:00.356 --> 00:33:02.118
 the books that I wish I had written?

771
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:04.421
Oh,

772
00:33:08.944 --> 00:33:10.726
 that's a question for a younger writer.

773
00:33:14.069 --> 00:33:18.655
 And there are plenty of works I read,

774
00:33:18.937 --> 00:33:21.765
 and I think that's beautiful.

775
00:33:22.484 --> 00:33:26.702
 But I learned this actually sitting with...

776
00:33:27.928 --> 00:33:28.989
 A friend of mine,

777
00:33:29.110 --> 00:33:30.289
 an Arapaho friend of mine,

778
00:33:30.290 --> 00:33:31.272
 a native man,

779
00:33:33.594 --> 00:33:33.715
 who,

780
00:33:35.477 --> 00:33:35.973
 and this,

781
00:33:36.114 --> 00:33:38.200
 and I'm sorry to tell this kind of boring story,

782
00:33:38.239 --> 00:33:39.801
 but we're sitting in his kitchen,

783
00:33:41.981 --> 00:33:43.684
 and in his house,

784
00:33:43.707 --> 00:33:47.442
 when I would stay with him on this reservation in Wyoming,

785
00:33:49.004 --> 00:33:51.707
 I would feel a cat move through my body.

786
00:33:51.848 --> 00:33:53.192
 And I'm not spiritual at all,

787
00:33:54.051 --> 00:33:55.614
 but I would feel this cat move,

788
00:33:55.879 --> 00:33:56.598
 a large cat.

789
00:33:57.192 --> 00:33:58.774
 And it was weird,

790
00:33:59.075 --> 00:34:01.594
 but it was only when his niece was away,

791
00:34:01.618 --> 00:34:03.477
 I would use her bedroom.

792
00:34:03.478 --> 00:34:04.360
 It was only in there.

793
00:34:04.380 --> 00:34:06.759
 And they did not own any cats,

794
00:34:07.462 --> 00:34:09.321
 but I would feel this large cat move through me.

795
00:34:10.563 --> 00:34:11.790
 And so I told him about it.

796
00:34:12.626 --> 00:34:15.423
 He was the medicine chief of the Northern Cheyenne,

797
00:34:15.470 --> 00:34:16.735
 happened to live with the

798
00:34:17.157 --> 00:34:17.970
 Arapaho people.

799
00:34:19.126 --> 00:34:21.735
 And we talked some,

800
00:34:21.954 --> 00:34:25.954
 and he asked me about experiences with cats.

801
00:34:26.708 --> 00:34:27.328
 large cats,

802
00:34:27.629 --> 00:34:29.728
 and I told them about a panther,

803
00:34:30.951 --> 00:34:38.451
 a black jaguar that I had seen come out of the brush when I was camping in Central America,

804
00:34:39.631 --> 00:34:43.037
 maybe 15 or 20 feet from me,

805
00:34:43.724 --> 00:34:44.209
 three meters.

806
00:34:46.396 --> 00:34:46.506
 Oh,

807
00:34:46.552 --> 00:34:46.677
 no,

808
00:34:46.756 --> 00:34:47.287
 not three meters.

809
00:34:47.318 --> 00:34:47.756
What was it?

810
00:34:48.349 --> 00:34:48.568
What?

811
00:34:49.287 --> 00:34:49.615
Close.

812
00:34:49.834 --> 00:34:50.256
Yeah,

813
00:34:50.677 --> 00:34:51.271
 five meters,

814
00:34:51.287 --> 00:34:51.771
 six meters.

815
00:34:56.617 --> 00:34:58.404
 And it stopped and it looked at me.

816
00:34:59.738 --> 00:35:00.779
 And I was terrified,

817
00:35:01.958 --> 00:35:04.177
 and it walked on like I didn't matter.

818
00:35:05.380 --> 00:35:06.798
 The first thing he said,

819
00:35:09.380 --> 00:35:10.419
 without any thought,

820
00:35:10.420 --> 00:35:10.560
 was,

821
00:35:10.857 --> 00:35:11.779
 that was an Indian.

822
00:35:12.779 --> 00:35:13.177
 And I said,

823
00:35:14.021 --> 00:35:14.919
 what are you talking about?

824
00:35:14.943 --> 00:35:15.419
 He says,

825
00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:16.185
 that was an Indian.

826
00:35:16.216 --> 00:35:16.763
 And he said,

827
00:35:17.076 --> 00:35:17.857
 and this was the thing,

828
00:35:17.888 --> 00:35:18.216
 he said,

829
00:35:19.029 --> 00:35:21.622
 without any envy,

830
00:35:22.029 --> 00:35:23.216
 without any jealousy,

831
00:35:25.263 --> 00:35:26.341
 only as a matter of fact,

832
00:35:26.701 --> 00:35:28.310
 they are very powerful down there.

833
00:35:30.166 --> 00:35:36.014
 And it was that wonderful clarity that he had.

834
00:35:36.015 --> 00:35:38.631
 He didn't want to be that person with that power.

835
00:35:39.834 --> 00:35:42.319
 He just recognized it and admitted it,

836
00:35:42.397 --> 00:35:43.256
 and it was a truth.

837
00:35:43.944 --> 00:35:47.569
 And so now when I see things of great beauty,

838
00:35:47.897 --> 00:35:50.569
 I don't desire to have made them.

839
00:35:51.381 --> 00:35:52.990
 I'm just glad that they're in the world.

840
00:35:55.006 --> 00:35:55.912
Long answer,

841
00:35:56.194 --> 00:35:58.069
 but nice conclusion.

842
00:35:59.190 --> 00:36:04.935
 Thank you very much for coming on this place,

843
00:36:04.954 --> 00:36:05.614
 in this place,

844
00:36:05.657 --> 00:36:06.177
 La Perouse.

845
00:36:06.255 --> 00:36:07.575
It's quite a place.

846
00:36:07.700 --> 00:36:09.497
One of the favorite places of Victor Hugo.

847
00:36:09.763 --> 00:36:10.880
 Victor Hugo and

848
00:36:11.263 --> 00:36:13.122
 Honoré de Balzac and Marcel Proust,

849
00:36:13.247 --> 00:36:16.692
 they were coming here to have dinner.

850
00:36:16.755 --> 00:36:18.427
 And maybe they're still there also.

851
00:36:19.005 --> 00:36:20.224
 Maybe they're inside us.

852
00:36:20.677 --> 00:36:21.271
I just felt,

853
00:36:21.896 --> 00:36:23.552
 I just felt walked through a cold spot.

854
00:36:26.630 --> 00:36:27.771
So thank you very much.

855
00:36:28.246 --> 00:36:30.027
 And of course,

856
00:36:30.129 --> 00:36:32.051
 I order you,

857
00:36:32.629 --> 00:36:37.758
 je vous ordonne de lire James de Percival Everett aux éditions de l'Olivier,

858
00:36:38.156 --> 00:36:50.852
 et aussi pour encore mieux comprendre le livre et comment le professeur Everett joue avec la littérature et la séduction qu'elle exerce sur les lecteurs,

859
00:36:51.445 --> 00:36:51.945
 Effacement,

860
00:36:52.445 --> 00:36:56.508
 qui est paru il y a quelques années et qui est réédité aussi aux éditions de l'Olivier.

861
00:36:57.346 --> 00:36:58.949
 Les deux sont traduits par un leurre tissu.

862
00:37:00.310 --> 00:37:02.894
 Merci beaucoup de continuer à nous suivre,

863
00:37:02.913 --> 00:37:03.894
 de nous commenter,

864
00:37:04.034 --> 00:37:04.956
 de nous liker,

865
00:37:05.074 --> 00:37:07.917
 de faire tout ce que vous pouvez faire avec vos doigts sur des téléphones.

866
00:37:09.378 --> 00:37:09.917
 Et puis,

867
00:37:10.777 --> 00:37:11.324
 n'oubliez pas.

868
00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:13.386
 I'm going to say it in English.

869
00:37:13.558 --> 00:37:16.964
 I say this every time at the end of this conversation.

870
00:37:17.745 --> 00:37:20.652
 Read books or you will become idiots.

871
00:37:21.824 --> 00:37:22.277
 Good night.

872
00:37:22.292 --> 00:37:24.167
Thank you.

873
00:37:24.386 --> 00:37:24.917
Thank you very much.

874
00:37:30.510 --> 00:37:34.239
That was a tough game.