Guess what?
I'm moving country again.
I don't know.
Maybe a year.
Maybe more.
Where's the phone?
The phone's everywhere.
I'm an expat.
Hi,
it's Pauline.
Welcome to a new episode of Meet the Expat.
Today I meet with Sahiya,
who's an American-Jamaican woman.
who has been living in Paris for a little bit over a year now as her first expat experience and more importantly her back to studies experience also as a young adult.
So hi,
how are you?
I'm great,
how are you today?
Very well,
thank you.
Good.
I look forward to upcoming Fête de la Musique.
Me too.
For those who don't know it,
it's basically all of France becomes a music festival,
street music festival.
Yes.
I was here for it last year as well.
It was so much fun.
I saw the big event.
I did.
Yes.
So let's start with you.
I'll let you do a brief introduction and then we'll go into your big move and how that happens.
Sure.
So yes,
I'm Sahiya and
I'm here in Paris.
I'm a writer,
entrepreneur.
hopefully luxury marketing strategies,
which we'll talk about.
My background is I grew up in the United States.
I'm first generation American,
but my family is from Jamaica.
And yes,
Jamaica is sort of like my second home.
And
I grew up in
Iowa, oddly enough,
but spent most of my adult life living in New York,
specifically Brooklyn,
where I started my career in health.
care and I was working a long time for Columbia University.
And then after that move,
I went over to California,
then Florida,
and then Texas.
Yeah.
And it's something I didn't think would happen because I'd spent so many years in New York,
but after just...
Being in California,
I sort of decided maybe this is too much of a shift for me.
So
I went to Florida,
which was nice.
I was around my family.
And then,
yeah,
I ended up in Texas,
in Houston,
where I was recently before I came to Paris.
Yeah,
and also,
but of course,
went to school in New York as well.
So did my undergrad at City College and then my graduate degree in healthcare administration.
Okay.
Yes,
I was totally devoted to health care.
Health care was big.
Yes,
and I did that at Columbia University.
All right.
Well,
what brought you to luxury marketing and specifically doing this master's in France rather than in the U.S.?
I suppose,
you know,
in some ways it was a little romanticized,
maybe.
But I had always wanted to live in France.
My first time coming here,
I was 30 years old for my birthday.
Big milestone birthday.
I just loved it.
Like I fell in love.
I went to Nice.
I fell in love again.
And I would come back and forth to Paris like over the years.
Okay.
And.
I also took French in college,
but I'm sure you've heard the stories that you do take it in college,
but then you can't really speak it.
Yeah.
No.
I mean,
I think we're all the same when we're learning a foreign language in school and with any nationality,
it's probably the same for that.
We're not that good.
Yeah.
So this,
but it was fun.
And I figured also,
too,
it was a time where
I was getting just kind of.
disappointed in our healthcare system because I always knew that it could be better,
but there were so many like blockages and it just was a frustration.
So
I started taking French again to kind of sort of reinvigorate,
you know,
that spirit.
And one of my professors or tutors,
she was telling me one day that
that she was teaching a class on like Christian Dior and Louis Vuitton.
Oh,
nice.
And I was thinking,
is that like some kind of science?
Like people study this?
What do they study?
And I started doing some research on different programs.
And it was ranging from,
you know,
art to,
I think,
general business.
But then I found this very specific niche in luxury marketing.
which really appealed to me.
That's kind of how I ended up at the school doing the master's in luxury marketing.
So it just seemed like a really great fit,
really great transition.
And so that directly was in France?
Yes.
And I didn't really look in the US,
honestly,
because
I knew in some ways as well that I wanted to come to France.
Okay.
Because.
I also wanted to do something that was really just sort of for me,
maybe super impractical.
Because as much as I did,
yeah,
as much as I did love health care,
it was truly like practical,
career minded,
do this,
go up this ladder,
etc.
And this was really like a complete pivot in just pursuing a dream,
if you will.
so yeah dreams of boat luxury marketing and also the
France side of.
Yeah.
And
I'll just add,
it was also like seeing beautiful things,
because
I think in healthcare,
my most recent position,
I had a wonderful team,
but I was working for a cancer hospital.
And it was really hard.
Yeah.
And if you go to the emergency room,
or at a cancer hospital,
it's a very different scene from
even just your regular sort of non-specific emergency room.
And that was,
you know,
that's tough.
And I think doing it for so many years,
I just felt like maybe if I could just be around,
you know,
some beautiful objects,
art,
I'd find this really fulfilling.
So yeah,
I can imagine you'd need something a lot more relaxing and visually thrilling and exciting than the hard truth of...
being surrounded by near death constantly,
which is very,
very tough and emotionally hard also to support.
Yeah,
definitely.
It's pretty gut-wrenching because when you're doing the analysis,
you're thinking about things like survival rate,
death,
mortality,
different disease and conditions,
and it's truly fulfilling work when you can do something to really help.
to launch something.
But also,
I think with the US,
we have just an incredible amount of regulation.
So it's,
there are many obstacles,
I would say to putting certain things in place,
even if it is helpful.
And yeah,
you know,
that can be kind of can be a bit frustrating,
you know,
so.
All right.
So you made the move to France,
started your studies.
So you mentioned you fell in love with France when you traveled,
you came from France,
you romanticized.
What's the truth?
What's the truth about France?
What's the reality?
okay well you know there's there's a lot of realities here that always hit you sometimes nicely sometimes not so nice um i think the realities for me i
have
And I'm going to be very honest,
like I have some days where I'm just going like,
especially with school,
studying,
you know,
going back to school,
studying again.
And I'm thinking,
like,
why did I do this?
I feel extremely brave to go back to it.
I think I'd love to go,
but I'm not sure
I'd be able to take it.
Yeah,
it's.
And then different country,
you know,
different teaching methodologies,
different subjects,
different types of apartments.
I think there's there were a lot of challenges in that.
For me,
fortunately,
though,
in order to get through some of those challenges,
I really made it a point to find a sort of community,
if you will,
here.
and get to know people and then try to build relationships.
I'm not always as consistent as I would like to be,
but I do try to,
you know,
reach out to people,
text them,
hang out,
you know,
just go to museums,
et cetera,
because those are the people,
even though they're new in your life,
will help you get through the difficult times.
And then of course I went back.
home,
when was it,
earlier this year for the holiday.
And that was great because I got to see my family and just kind of hug them,
spend time with them,
be around them.
And then also,
I think,
yeah,
this about a month ago,
I was in Barbados for my birthday and for a friend's birthday.
And I surprised her,
which was really funny.
But it was such a great time because it was also being in the Caribbean and that kind of warm feeling,
nice weather,
sandy beaches,
just getting those things that are familiar to me.
Yeah,
because there are so many pluses in France.
But I think some of also where I struggle too is like.
I really want an air conditioner.
I really want one.
I've been thinking about this for about two or three weeks now.
And
I saw some online,
but I also am in a walk-up apartment.
So like,
well,
if I get it delivered,
can I bring it up the stairs?
How heavy is it?
Or then it will have to order it and then get like a task rabbit person to help me bring it up the stairs.
you know,
how will this work?
Because there's no elevator.
And sometimes things like that,
like really frustrate me because
I'm thinking about like Pottery Barn and like,
oh,
where's that white glove service,
you know,
where they bring it and,
you know,
they deliver it and then they install it.
It's,
you know,
with one click.
Yeah.
And everything.
Yeah.
That's,
that's kind of,
let's say to my recent
sort of reality here.
Yeah,
so it's a bit more do-it-yourself here.
Yeah,
it is.
And then on the other side,
of course,
you have this life where you can go to the cafes and you can sit and you can relax and you can chat.
And it's vibrant.
Also,
I love some of the museum exhibits.
A friend of mine came here to visit.
And we went to the Grand Palais and they had the installation on inflatable art.
Who knew that was a thing?
It was like going through this like 12 rooms like a kid,
you know,
just being able to experience balloons and participate.
And like it was so much fun.
And so there's moments like that where I know if I'm in a place like.
Houston that may not have as much investment or art and art museums things like that
I may not get to experience so that's one of the real positives and like but you know realities here so I enjoy that yeah I mean of course a lot of things are are going to be different in good ways in that piece.
Yes.
You mentioned one thing about...
Studying again,
the fact that the subjects are different,
but also the teaching style is very different.
Why are you asking me this?
Well,
just for a little context,
I'll compare the two masters that I've done.
At Columbia,
I was in an executive master's program.
So we met one long weekend a month,
which was like Thursday through Sunday,
once a month.
We had.
projects,
but I think all,
and we were in a cohort,
maybe 30 of us,
and we were all working full time coming in from many different places.
So,
and we had a great time.
And at that time I was maybe one of the youngest people in my cohort.
There were,
there was a guy in there who's a cardiologist.
I think he was in his seventies.
He went back to school.
Yeah,
it was amazing.
And it's funny because his son was also in the program.
They're both physicians.
But coming here to
Paris, it was like rules about attendance,
rules about being on time.
Some professors,
if you were more than five minutes late,
you couldn't enter the class.
And then also this kind of lecture style where
I'm sort of descending.
Yeah,
I like this word,
descending.
Okay.
That's a good description.
And I've had a lot of years of professional experience that I'm used to.
If we're in a meeting,
I don't know if you want to just stand up because your legs are tight,
you know,
you need to stretch,
you just stand up or you take five minutes.
But I was sort of looking around at sort of the atmosphere.
And it was also a cohort.
But we had these lectures that were like an hour and a half,
and then you got maybe a 10,
15 minute break.
And then you sat again for another hour and a half or so.
A lot of times listening.
There were some teachers who were.
definitely much more engaging,
like our marketing teacher,
who I thought was fabulous.
But it,
like,
it was a strange experience,
because also,
too,
in my cohort,
in my old program,
we were so interactive and,
like,
you know,
dynamic,
going back and forth,
bantering,
so on and so forth.
But sometimes in the program,
I got the sense that,
like,
I wasn't sure if that was really welcome with certain professors.
And also,
I think that one of the things that
Columbia really valued was your experience that you bring to the program.
And
I felt in a way that with this program,
they were there to teach you,
but they didn't really.
And I'm saying they is super general.
It's not all,
but there was sort of an overarching attitude where it's like,
we're here to teach you.
It's not really about what you did in the past sometimes or what you experienced.
And that wasn't always a great feeling because the reason you're coming to graduate school,
at least in how I felt experienced,
was that you have this cohort and you should be super dynamic.
and really be able to learn from each other,
right?
That's the point of going to graduate school,
you know,
for networks and things like that.
So that was something that I felt was super different.
And what else would I say?
Also,
of course,
you know,
at a place like Columbia,
they have a lot of resources.
and
I felt like
They were much more available as well.
So you could make office appointments with professors because they like really work there.
And maybe it's just different because this school was different.
It was very maybe a smaller program.
It might be different at a place like the Sorbonne or maybe HEC.
where the professors are really on site,
working there,
doing the research.
I think depending on the school,
some are there on site and it's almost a full-time job.
And others,
they would be in full-time jobs and come in and consult for just one program a year or one semester.
So that might be a difference.
Indeed,
I had both in my business school in the past with the next of them.
So indeed,
some work.
Right.
available because they were never there so yeah and some are you know professionals who are literally working in the field exactly and they're bringing that like real world real life experience to you so yeah definitely so
I agree on the fact that having studied a little bit in both the U.S.
and in
France I felt that the U.S.
was a lot more collaborative and maybe a bit more practical in some fields
not all subjects,
but in some of them versus France,
where,
yeah,
completely resonates with what you're saying.
It's very lecture style of you sit down,
you listen,
and then you go home and you study and do an exercise.
I found that the U.S.
was more of you'd read at home and then you'd come into class and it was more of an exchange dynamic during class,
which I found a bit more interesting and,
yeah,
collaborative.
You actually learn from people and their experience and their take.
Right.
You know,
and I don't know,
because I don't feel like I know enough French people to say whether,
you know,
I'm not going to make some big generalization,
like,
we're just more collaborative in the US.
And,
you know,
it's less here.
I think definitely the place and the style certainly mattered.
Because,
you know,
like a couple,
because yes,
there's some in the
US where they're here to look,
I'll teach you these five things.
Now you go and you do the work and you
find yourself,
you know,
and that's their style and,
you know,
that works.
So it,
but I definitely felt like,
I like your word,
this kind of descending style that's here versus,
yeah,
in the U S at least in,
in my experience,
yeah.
In the bastards.
I understand.
Okay.
And what about coming back to the
Life in general,
you were saying you built a little bit of a community and met people.
How have you been meeting people?
Is it through the program outside?
Yeah.
So in part,
somewhat through the program.
Again,
it was.
You know,
Columbia had this really,
I think,
more collaborative attitude where a lot of times if you reach out to a Columbia alum just on LinkedIn randomly,
they're like,
OK,
yeah,
sure,
I'll chat with you because you just have this kind of bond.
But with this school,
I found we didn't really have any interactions with like previous classes or coming,
you know,
future classes with the exception of,
you know,
maybe if you do reach out to.
a couple of people because like I met a friend in the MBA program who's great and so
I'm going to her wedding which is exciting but I think most of my connections had been outside of the program some I started from the
U.S. because I love research so I used Facebook a lot on some of the expat groups and I've met really great people who are still my friends some of whom we
you know,
have done some projects together,
do some brainstorming together.
We also go,
of course,
go eat together.
And also,
I've met a lot of people too,
who are into like art,
fashion,
which is super in line with my industry,
which is great.
And
I would say sometimes,
you know it's funny because
I was I love to shop and
I would
just always be very chatty with people who were there at the store working there and one of my good friends now he's recommended like this whole amazing you know wardrobe as I told him I said I'm going to sort of change my style as
I'm here now in Paris and he has amazing style and another friend who I met from Facebook we do some projects sometimes together so she helps with um,
you know,
my style,
we do shopping and we just talk about fashion.
You can see my book,
Saint Laurent,
you know,
in the background,
which was a nice gift.
So,
and just,
I don't know,
just trying to be outside and have like a really open spirit and engage in conversation with interesting people.
And also
I rented an apartment.
from
Coco community and yeah I went through
Coco for a couple of months and interviewed Fred the founder he thought of him oh no I didn't I didn't listen to it I will I will but yeah he was great because he actually introduced me to a couple people and I met some folks like when I went to a
couple of the events and a couple ladies we hung out the other
evening for a fancy dinner so I just like try to meet people but also make myself available as I can uh yeah so and then just try to to build so of course yeah interesting it's funny what you're saying about well I
I changed my style I guess it's also
I mean you're moving into an industry also that is from the U.S.
to France do you see that big shift in style and
this going above like the marketing luxury uh well on a personal note you know what's really funny when I went back home to the U.S.
and I was validated by my friend who um we knew each other from New York and she lives in London and I said to her it's like in the U.S.
and I'm in Florida and Texas of course
I said everybody's in athleisure
Everybody at the store is wearing leggings and sneakers and like t-shirts.
I'm going,
I mean,
I still do,
but like now that has really changed because unless I'm going to,
you know,
like Fonpre really quickly,
or I'm just going downstairs to the bakery,
I do put on something,
you know,
like I put on some pants.
Or if I'm going to the gym,
of course,
yeah,
I wear my athleisure surround.
But that was like a huge like aha moment,
eye-open moment because it was like everywhere.
And I was just saying to myself,
oh,
my goodness,
like athleisure has totally taken over the U.S.
And it's incredible.
But yeah,
like fashion here.
And I know like my style has changed.
I'd always I kept some of my sort of New York vibes because I had lived there so long.
But my style,
yes,
I think has changed in terms of makeup,
hair,
clothing.
I also
to sort of immerse myself.
I also started shopping with a lot of French designers and just hanging out and trying to understand some of the French style,
especially I think if you're working here or if you just love the culture.
And it was great to see for myself and experience for myself some of the
I would say
I don't want to say real style but
I don't know.
It's like every day.
The local style?
Yeah,
local style.
Yeah,
because in the U.S.,
I told my friends,
I said,
I watched,
you know,
a lot of videos on like,
oh,
French style,
French life,
you know,
just excitement as I'm coming here.
And there was definitely this kind of image that I feel was sort of exported,
if you will,
right,
of a certain look,
you know,
kind of tall,
thin.
do you say marinier or the stripes yeah um yes wearing pants or uh loafers you know this kind of and not really a lot of color but being super muted but the
neighborhoods that I've been in and the places that I've been to
I see a lot more artistic people or people who embrace style wear a lot of color,
especially in the summer.
And I know they're not foreigners because you hear them and they're friendly friends,
you know,
or you see at the cafe.
And so that's been like really exciting and eye opening to see because
I think that there's really a style for everybody here versus like kind of what sort of this very specific kind of niche style that's kind of exported.
you know to the U.S.
and one of the other things that I love especially as getting older getting a little more gray hair you know is that they're women
I in their probably
60s 70s maybe
80s and they look fabulous yeah they look better
I mean anybody and find their style and they just embrace it completely yeah completely I don't know where they're going if it's just
If it's just in the grocery store or what,
but I mean,
they're completely pulled together and they know what they're doing.
It's very inspirational.
It is,
but it makes me feel good because
I think,
you know,
especially after experiencing my program and I was like the oldest person in the class,
there is so much emphasis on like Gen Z.
And I get it because I was once a Gen Z.
I'm not anymore,
you know,
of my age.
But it's like sometimes I think for women and the industry,
like beauty industry,
fashion industry,
I like to see things change.
And people,
you're in great.
At your time also.
Your life isn't over because you're over 30.
No.
It continues.
Absolutely.
And it can continue to be like fabulous.
And,
you know,
just out in the evening,
taking a stroll,
having some champagne with your partner,
so on and so forth.
It's really to see that I think is really fabulous.
And I think
I don't know where the US is on that necessarily.
We definitely have come a long way with a lot of acceptance of different.
you know,
body shapes,
skin tones,
hairstyles,
you know,
this and that.
But
I think that this is a great lesson from,
you know,
France to show like women just being like super fabulous at,
you know,
all of these ages and,
you know,
vice versa,
we can learn from each other,
take things from each other.
So absolutely.
Yeah.
So you mentioned the fashion,
the marketing.
Do you want to come back to the Emily in Paris?
Because it seems like you're a little bit in that area,
in this street.
Sure.
It's like,
yeah,
because,
and you know,
it's so funny because it was a bit like unintentional.
And to be fair to Emily in Paris,
I know there's a lot of opinions about the show.
But that first season,
I think,
came out like during the pandemic.
And it was truly like escapism as I was,
you know,
in the house.
kind of wondering what is going on with the world and being able to travel suddenly.
Yeah,
especially to my favorite place.
And they were so wonderful,
like with all of the scenery incorporating,
you know,
French people there.
And it just,
yeah,
it kind of just took me away,
you know,
like,
my mind just,
yeah,
traveled to Paris,
and it was amazing.
So the show definitely had some influence on me.
But
And it was also like some of the challenges,
like I literally did not play it.
The apartment with seven floors.
Yeah,
exactly.
I would say the woman who's the concierge here is quite nice.
So it's not like Emily's like kind of concierge.
But yeah,
going up the stairs,
trekking up the steps.
walking or jogging through the
Jardin du Luxembourg is beautiful.
So
I completely understand why she did that.
That's an amazing place to just be.
Some of the things maybe like,
I don't know,
I like attitudes wise,
like,
I don't work here yet.
But I mean,
just my school experience,
I would say like.
You see how they,
I feel like the French team,
like,
really embraced her.
And
I feel generally embraced by a lot of people that I meet here,
honestly,
because maybe I also try to be a bit more polite.
And I do think what's true that I've heard is,
like,
if you say good morning,
good evening,
goodbye.
It does.
It really does.
Even to,
like,
the most serious faces.
And it's like that scene when she was buying the pain au raisin or pain au chocolat.
And the woman there corrected her.
But it's like she went inside and she didn't say anything.
Even as an American,
you go inside,
you say,
hi,
how are you doing?
Or,
I don't know,
good morning.
And
I know people commented on that.
But I do think the manners here can go a long way for sure.
and um so
Gosh,
what else about the show?
I was just wondering,
did it set expectations for you?
Or were you very realistic about that?
That's not going to be like real life.
Yeah.
I mean,
because in a way,
it's sort of like life in New York a bit.
I don't know,
like life in a big city.
So it didn't really,
did it set expectations?
I don't know.
It made me excited,
honestly.
I felt excited because...
I felt like,
wow,
this is a new kind of life that I want to experience.
And it also felt like
I was getting a glimpse of what it could be like here.
I mean,
hopefully with a lot less drama and things like that.
But yeah,
it really sort of set that stage,
even finding friends,
experiencing art,
dinners.
with people,
like,
those are some of the things that I really wanted to have back in my life.
So in that way,
maybe it did set a little expectation,
but I definitely didn't expect to,
you know,
be going to school fully,
you know,
dressed from head to toe,
full face every day.
No,
no,
not at all.
So,
but yeah,
it,
at least I think.
illuminated some things for me well thanks so much let's move on to your recommendations so you've been there a bit more than a year yeah what would be your top places for bar or cafe restaurant
that you get a carte blanche anything you want oh okay um and i know you i know i prepared for this i would say because there's like
many places that also want to pop into my mind.
But favorite places,
I like kind of local places to where to build like a relationship where they start to get to know you.
So for food,
Le Petit Marcel,
it's near the Centre Pompidou,
one of my favorite restaurants,
great wine,
wonderful food.
I love the escargot there.
And there's something that they
put into this like butter garlic herbs that's like but it's like theirs it's really magical honestly and with the bread i don't know like truly it's really really magical so i would say that's uh one of my favorite places
Also for bars,
there's one called Le
Gainsbourg.
And it's a cute kind of small cocktail bar.
And they make wonderful cocktails.
Also,
one of my favorite places for if you want a little bit more bougie,
like fancy drink kind of place.
Because I did a lot of research on palace hotels for my project.
So two places I recommend,
Hotel Leticia and also
La Reserve.
La Reserve is really my favorite.
I have always gone there and felt incredibly welcomed.
Wonderful cocktails,
great food.
Just,
you know,
it's not maybe an everyday thing,
but if you feel maybe like...
dressing up on the evening yeah like a tree it's really a great place and and I just love the atmosphere and how you're welcomed in so yeah those are some of my favorite places here and what about your expat song my
expat song I love this question do you know and and forgive me because I can't remember the artist's name this is terrible
But the song is like,
I'm going to do it my way.
Oh,
my gosh.
Yes,
that's my expat song.
I'm going to do it my way.
Because,
you know,
I'm integrating into the culture and everything,
but I need to do some things,
you know,
my way.
You need to be yourself also.
Yeah,
stay true to yourself.
Exactly.
So,
yeah,
that's not too boring for people.
I don't know.
It's interesting.
I don't think it ever came out,
but I mean,
definitely the title resonates straight away.
Yes,
exactly.
Okay.
Well,
we'll link the places and the song in the,
in the footnotes.
I hope you enjoyed the episode.
Thank you so much for sharing about the differences that you've seen,
especially in the school system.
Yeah.
Of course.
Yeah,
hopefully we'll meet at Coco or in Paris for a coffee or a bar.
Yes,
definitely.
Please let me know when you're here.
And also just a big thank you to you as well.
And I do want people to know that at any age you can make a change and you can be courageous,
make a plan and make a change and follow your dreams.
So thank you for letting me share my story today.
A living example.
Thank you,
yes.
Guys,
if you enjoyed the episode,
you can put a rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
As usual,
all the updates will be on Instagram.