WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.244 --> 00:00:00.744 Hello Siri, 2 00:00:01.464 --> 00:00:02.605 can you sell me this pen? 3 00:00:03.405 --> 00:00:03.865 A pen? 4 00:00:04.225 --> 00:00:05.405 Why would I sell you a pen, 5 00:00:05.525 --> 00:00:05.866 Koku? 6 00:00:06.606 --> 00:00:07.886 I don't think you need one. 7 00:00:08.326 --> 00:00:13.828 You already use your ten fingers on your keyboard and squash my face with your two thumbs to send messages. 8 00:00:15.488 --> 00:00:16.128 Ah Siri, 9 00:00:16.729 --> 00:00:19.969 this was a test to see how good a salesperson you could be. 10 00:00:20.710 --> 00:00:23.831 You clearly don't remember the movie The Wolf of Wall Street. 11 00:00:24.291 --> 00:00:27.312 There is this famous scene where Leonardo DiCaprio, 12 00:00:27.552 --> 00:00:28.832 playing Jordan Belfort, 13 00:00:29.196 --> 00:00:30.676 Put his sales team to the test. 14 00:00:31.177 --> 00:00:32.637 And who is Jordan Belfort? 15 00:00:33.297 --> 00:00:34.538 He's an American author, 16 00:00:34.858 --> 00:00:35.938 motivational speaker, 17 00:00:36.158 --> 00:00:39.499 and former stockbroker who faced legal troubles in the past, 18 00:00:39.819 --> 00:00:44.360 but later published a popular memoir titled The Wolf of Wall Street, 19 00:00:44.840 --> 00:00:48.061 which was adapted into a movie in 2013. 20 00:00:48.902 --> 00:00:49.042 Ah, 21 00:00:49.362 --> 00:00:49.722 I see. 22 00:00:50.102 --> 00:00:51.922 So I guess sales is not for me then? 23 00:00:53.163 --> 00:00:53.523 Well, 24 00:00:53.843 --> 00:00:54.703 not exactly. 25 00:00:55.223 --> 00:00:57.124 While you didn't manage to sell me this pen, 26 00:00:57.696 --> 00:00:59.577 You did show some correct instincts. 27 00:01:00.677 --> 00:01:03.218 I'm not sure I fully understood your point. 28 00:01:04.058 --> 00:01:04.418 Hang on. 29 00:01:04.978 --> 00:01:06.919 I have this short audio clip of 30 00:01:07.379 --> 00:01:10.760 Belfort addressing students at the Oxford Union Society, 31 00:01:11.321 --> 00:01:15.002 where he was asked the same question by a student in the audience. 32 00:01:15.942 --> 00:01:18.643 If you ask someone who's not a professional salesman, 33 00:01:18.643 --> 00:01:20.024 who doesn't have the right instincts, 34 00:01:20.804 --> 00:01:20.984 they'll... 35 00:01:21.344 --> 00:01:23.409 Start actually trying to sell you a pen. 36 00:01:23.669 --> 00:01:24.391 This pen is great. 37 00:01:24.411 --> 00:01:25.413 This pen writes upside down. 38 00:01:25.593 --> 00:01:27.697 It's the best value for its money This time will last forever. 39 00:01:27.878 --> 00:01:30.783 It hit by this pen Here's the thing 40 00:01:31.604 --> 00:01:38.751 The only one rational thing you could do when someone says sell me this pen and that is to start asking them questions. 41 00:01:38.751 --> 00:01:41.173 So tell me how long you've been in the market for a pen? 42 00:01:42.034 --> 00:01:43.335 What type of pens have you used in the past? 43 00:01:43.536 --> 00:01:44.557 Is it business or personal? 44 00:01:44.817 --> 00:01:45.538 Typically when you buy a pen, 45 00:01:45.558 --> 00:01:46.699 what type of money do you spend on one? 46 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:47.519 Do you buy expensive pens? 47 00:01:48.941 --> 00:01:52.284 The key to selling is to find out step one. 48 00:01:52.684 --> 00:01:54.126 What are your client's needs? 49 00:01:55.307 --> 00:01:56.048 Values? 50 00:01:56.660 --> 00:01:58.021 What pay are they looking to result? 51 00:01:58.241 --> 00:01:59.001 What do they need? 52 00:01:59.321 --> 00:02:01.882 And you're looking to fill that need at the most basic level, 53 00:02:01.982 --> 00:02:02.202 right? 54 00:02:02.902 --> 00:02:03.022 So, 55 00:02:03.502 --> 00:02:04.903 Belfort's answer is simple. 56 00:02:05.283 --> 00:02:05.603 First, 57 00:02:05.963 --> 00:02:06.804 ask questions. 58 00:02:07.304 --> 00:02:11.265 Find out what the client needs before you even think about selling. 59 00:02:12.145 --> 00:02:12.806 Fascinating. 60 00:02:13.386 --> 00:02:13.506 So, 61 00:02:13.886 --> 00:02:15.567 is sales an art or a science? 62 00:02:16.687 --> 00:02:16.967 Well, 63 00:02:17.207 --> 00:02:18.988 this is what we are about to find out. 64 00:02:26.356 --> 00:02:28.117 Welcome to 2050 Investors, 65 00:02:28.517 --> 00:02:33.439 the podcast that deciphers economic and market megatrends to meet tomorrow's challenges. 66 00:02:34.299 --> 00:02:35.320 I'm Coco Agboblois, 67 00:02:35.580 --> 00:02:36.800 I head up Economics, 68 00:02:37.041 --> 00:02:39.622 Cross-Asset and Quant Research at Societe Generale. 69 00:02:40.282 --> 00:02:42.503 In this episode of 2050 Investors, 70 00:02:42.763 --> 00:02:45.244 we explore the dynamic world of sales, 71 00:02:45.724 --> 00:02:49.006 delving into its historical evolution as a profession, 72 00:02:49.506 --> 00:02:53.027 the essential components of a successful sales process, 73 00:02:53.528 --> 00:02:54.488 and the crucial role 74 00:02:54.752 --> 00:02:56.773 of salespeople in financial markets. 75 00:02:57.433 --> 00:03:03.115 We will also examine the diverse roles of salespeople across asset classes and business lines. 76 00:03:04.316 --> 00:03:05.596 Later in this episode, 77 00:03:05.877 --> 00:03:07.437 we are joined by Yann Garnier, 78 00:03:07.797 --> 00:03:10.698 Head of Sales for Global Markets at Société Générale. 79 00:03:11.279 --> 00:03:17.741 Yann will share his unique insights on the art of selling and what it takes to be a successful salesperson. 80 00:03:18.522 --> 00:03:24.344 We'll also discuss the significance of understanding the linear or cyclical nature of time. 81 00:03:24.768 --> 00:03:28.771 in building client relationships across different cultures and geographies. 82 00:03:29.652 --> 00:03:30.293 And lastly, 83 00:03:30.773 --> 00:03:39.500 we'll examine the future of sales in 2050 and debate the potential for artificial intelligence to replace the human element. 84 00:03:40.641 --> 00:03:42.282 Let's start our investigation. 85 00:03:46.946 --> 00:03:47.066 So, 86 00:03:47.486 --> 00:03:49.988 when did the concept of selling things really begin? 87 00:03:50.489 --> 00:03:54.172 Please don't tell me that Eve in the Garden of Eden was the first salesperson. 88 00:03:55.796 --> 00:03:56.277 I'm lost. 89 00:03:56.697 --> 00:03:57.458 What do you mean? 90 00:03:57.718 --> 00:03:57.938 Well, 91 00:03:58.158 --> 00:03:59.159 the forbidden apple, 92 00:03:59.379 --> 00:03:59.740 you know. 93 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:02.982 Eve must have made a convincing pitch for Adam to eat it, 94 00:04:03.183 --> 00:04:03.423 right? 95 00:04:03.943 --> 00:04:04.063 Ah, 96 00:04:04.163 --> 00:04:04.424 Siri, 97 00:04:04.844 --> 00:04:05.364 that's funny. 98 00:04:06.005 --> 00:04:06.225 Or 99 00:04:06.565 --> 00:04:09.167 Adam simply must have really wanted that apple. 100 00:04:09.688 --> 00:04:09.968 Listen, 101 00:04:10.468 --> 00:04:11.609 selling is part art, 102 00:04:11.990 --> 00:04:12.910 part instinct, 103 00:04:13.191 --> 00:04:14.151 part psychology, 104 00:04:14.472 --> 00:04:15.753 and a fair bit of timing. 105 00:04:16.273 --> 00:04:19.516 It's a skill that's been around since the dawn of time. 106 00:04:20.377 --> 00:04:21.477 I'm not surprised. 107 00:04:21.718 --> 00:04:24.400 Humans have an insatiable thirst for consumption. 108 00:04:24.928 --> 00:04:25.849 That's for sure. 109 00:04:26.369 --> 00:04:29.931 But I do believe sales can be a powerful force for change. 110 00:04:30.472 --> 00:04:31.973 We'll revisit this later. 111 00:04:32.413 --> 00:04:32.873 But first, 112 00:04:33.154 --> 00:04:34.354 let's do some research. 113 00:04:34.775 --> 00:04:34.915 OK, 114 00:04:35.175 --> 00:04:36.356 I will hold off for now. 115 00:04:36.796 --> 00:04:37.336 But remember, 116 00:04:37.396 --> 00:04:37.977 you can run, 117 00:04:38.097 --> 00:04:39.658 but you can't hide from the planet. 118 00:04:40.178 --> 00:04:40.459 Well, 119 00:04:40.699 --> 00:04:44.001 Elon Musk might disagree with his SpaceX rockets, 120 00:04:44.261 --> 00:04:45.302 but we are digressing. 121 00:04:47.743 --> 00:04:50.886 Do you recall the previous episode on the future of banks, 122 00:04:51.246 --> 00:04:54.308 where we explored 4,000 years of banking history? 123 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:55.181 Yes, 124 00:04:55.461 --> 00:04:55.702 I do. 125 00:04:56.103 --> 00:04:57.125 Compound interest, 126 00:04:57.366 --> 00:04:58.709 the eighth wonder of the world. 127 00:04:59.270 --> 00:04:59.791 Exactly. 128 00:05:01.515 --> 00:05:01.735 Well, 129 00:05:02.015 --> 00:05:05.858 the history of sales began with the barter system around 6000 BC, 130 00:05:06.338 --> 00:05:07.719 where goods were exchanged. 131 00:05:08.179 --> 00:05:14.102 The first forms of institutional trade occurred in Mesopotamian marketplaces around 3000 BC, 132 00:05:14.723 --> 00:05:16.083 where people traded grains, 133 00:05:16.283 --> 00:05:16.804 metals, 134 00:05:17.044 --> 00:05:17.744 and livestock. 135 00:05:18.785 --> 00:05:21.006 This marked the inception of salesmanship. 136 00:05:23.027 --> 00:05:25.429 Fast forward to the Industrial Revolution in the 137 00:05:25.909 --> 00:05:26.729 19th century, 138 00:05:27.070 --> 00:05:29.431 where industrial output of goods surged. 139 00:05:29.743 --> 00:05:36.027 The need for trained sales professionals became paramount for running a successful and profitable business. 140 00:05:36.748 --> 00:05:40.330 It was crucial to match the right products with the right customers. 141 00:05:44.093 --> 00:05:49.056 But wasn't sales about employing manipulative techniques designed to trick customers into buying? 142 00:05:49.676 --> 00:05:50.297 You're right. 143 00:05:50.677 --> 00:05:52.919 Much like the Force in Star Wars, 144 00:05:53.579 --> 00:05:56.421 sales too has its light and dark sides. 145 00:05:57.562 --> 00:05:58.703 Speaking of the big screen, 146 00:05:58.723 --> 00:05:59.223 the... 147 00:05:59.363 --> 00:06:04.168 boiler room movie perfectly captures the world of high pressure sales tactics. 148 00:06:05.870 --> 00:06:14.138 It's the story of a young stockbroker who gets mixed up in this shady brokerage firm selling stocks that don't even worth the paper they are printed on. 149 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:19.224 It's a real eye-opener to the dark side of aggressive financial sales, 150 00:06:19.804 --> 00:06:22.307 especially when there's no ethics in play. 151 00:06:23.991 --> 00:06:26.753 But salesmanship has come a long way since the 152 00:06:27.553 --> 00:06:28.194 1800s and early 153 00:06:29.034 --> 00:06:33.417 1900s, where peddlers promoted fake snake oil to cure everything. 154 00:06:34.437 --> 00:06:38.099 I found this very interesting article on Membrane.com. 155 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:42.562 It's about the history of modern sales methodology for sales leaders. 156 00:06:43.242 --> 00:06:43.823 I'm listening. 157 00:06:44.283 --> 00:06:45.484 Here's what he wrote. 158 00:06:48.525 --> 00:06:48.806 From the 159 00:06:49.566 --> 00:06:50.026 1920s through the 160 00:06:50.827 --> 00:06:50.947 1950s, 161 00:06:51.347 --> 00:06:54.528 Sales methodology took a number of twists and turns, 162 00:06:54.889 --> 00:06:56.749 including psychological selling, 163 00:06:57.070 --> 00:07:02.292 which promoted the idea that the best salespeople were those who understood how buyers tick. 164 00:07:05.173 --> 00:07:06.113 Relationship selling, 165 00:07:06.414 --> 00:07:10.375 of which Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People approach, 166 00:07:10.795 --> 00:07:11.576 was the flagship. 167 00:07:12.196 --> 00:07:13.537 And barrier selling, 168 00:07:14.117 --> 00:07:18.839 which encouraged practitioners to trick the customer into saying yes. 169 00:07:20.003 --> 00:07:20.243 In the 170 00:07:21.103 --> 00:07:28.065 1950s, formula selling became popular and is still used by telemarketers and door-to-door salespeople everywhere. 171 00:07:28.686 --> 00:07:28.946 ADA, 172 00:07:29.306 --> 00:07:30.666 which stands for Attention, 173 00:07:31.086 --> 00:07:31.547 Interest, 174 00:07:31.727 --> 00:07:32.227 Desire, 175 00:07:32.607 --> 00:07:32.947 Action, 176 00:07:33.587 --> 00:07:39.369 is perhaps the most famous formula encouraging salespeople to grab the buyer's attention, 177 00:07:39.909 --> 00:07:41.690 stimulate interest in the product, 178 00:07:41.990 --> 00:07:44.330 induce desire to own the product, 179 00:07:44.771 --> 00:07:46.031 and move them to take action. 180 00:07:48.479 --> 00:07:51.401 I recognize a few of those unsolicited phone calls. 181 00:07:53.063 --> 00:07:57.226 Much like biological organisms undergo a process of evolution, 182 00:07:57.727 --> 00:08:01.069 sales techniques in general have also evolved over time. 183 00:08:01.870 --> 00:08:04.792 The Sandler selling system emerged in 1967, 184 00:08:05.533 --> 00:08:09.156 followed by the Miller-Hyman strategic selling in 1978. 185 00:08:09.716 --> 00:08:10.997 By 1988, 186 00:08:11.218 --> 00:08:13.299 we saw the advent of solution selling, 187 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:14.140 SPI, 188 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:15.421 and spin selling, 189 00:08:15.941 --> 00:08:17.723 which stands for situation, 190 00:08:18.019 --> 00:08:18.399 Problem, 191 00:08:18.780 --> 00:08:19.440 implication, 192 00:08:19.721 --> 00:08:20.281 need payoff. 193 00:08:21.082 --> 00:08:25.026 Value selling was introduced in 1991 by Value Vision Associates, 194 00:08:25.866 --> 00:08:30.951 and customer-centric selling came into play in 1993. 195 00:08:30.971 --> 00:08:33.393 The 21st century brought us rain selling in 2002, 196 00:08:33.914 --> 00:08:35.575 baseline selling in 2005, 197 00:08:35.716 --> 00:08:38.598 and the challenger sell in 2011. 198 00:08:39.599 --> 00:08:40.920 My head is spinning around, 199 00:08:41.201 --> 00:08:42.542 just like Kylie Minogue. 200 00:08:45.183 --> 00:08:45.623 Me too. 201 00:08:46.003 --> 00:08:49.205 I feel sort of dizzy listing all these sales techniques. 202 00:08:49.625 --> 00:08:50.765 But here's the key takeaway. 203 00:08:51.186 --> 00:08:54.687 The best book ever written on the art of selling is 204 00:08:56.488 --> 00:09:00.890 How to Win Friends and Influence People by Adele Carnegie. 205 00:09:00.910 --> 00:09:02.790 First published in 1936, 206 00:09:03.451 --> 00:09:07.132 this book offers practical advice on enhancing people skills. 207 00:09:08.373 --> 00:09:10.714 So there's still hope for me to improve then. 208 00:09:11.314 --> 00:09:13.315 Just like in the movie Kung Fu Panda, 209 00:09:13.815 --> 00:09:15.315 This is the secret sauce. 210 00:09:17.416 --> 00:09:19.277 Do you have a pen ready to take some notes? 211 00:09:19.397 --> 00:09:19.737 Ha ha, 212 00:09:20.137 --> 00:09:20.677 nice one. 213 00:09:20.717 --> 00:09:21.097 Ha ha, 214 00:09:21.517 --> 00:09:22.557 I almost got you there. 215 00:09:23.278 --> 00:09:25.018 Here are the eight crucial principles, 216 00:09:25.358 --> 00:09:26.398 or dare I say, 217 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:29.299 the eight commandments from Dale Carnegie, 218 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:31.780 the almighty lord of sales. 219 00:09:35.561 --> 00:09:38.482 Behold the eight sales commandments. 220 00:09:40.142 --> 00:09:42.863 Thou shall show genuine interest. 221 00:09:43.163 --> 00:09:46.146 in others. 222 00:09:46.146 --> 00:09:51.733 Carnegie emphasizes the significance of showing genuine interests in others, 223 00:09:51.873 --> 00:09:54.476 which makes them feel important and appreciated. 224 00:09:56.958 --> 00:09:59.421 Thou shalt avoid criticism, 225 00:09:59.621 --> 00:10:00.602 condemnation, 226 00:10:00.863 --> 00:10:01.944 or complaints. 227 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:06.722 People don't generally respond well to criticism. 228 00:10:07.122 --> 00:10:07.483 Instead, 229 00:10:07.823 --> 00:10:08.503 understanding, 230 00:10:08.704 --> 00:10:09.484 encouragement, 231 00:10:09.744 --> 00:10:14.088 and appreciation are more effective in influencing behavior. 232 00:10:16.229 --> 00:10:19.392 Seek to feel what others feel. 233 00:10:21.734 --> 00:10:24.876 Understanding and acknowledging other people's perspectives, 234 00:10:25.116 --> 00:10:25.236 i.e. 235 00:10:25.396 --> 00:10:25.757 empathy, 236 00:10:26.277 --> 00:10:29.800 can help to build rapport and foster better relationships. 237 00:10:32.196 --> 00:10:35.237 Thou shalt influence through questions. 238 00:10:37.878 --> 00:10:39.378 Instead of telling people what to do, 239 00:10:39.978 --> 00:10:44.419 it's more effective to ask questions that guide them towards a desired outcome. 240 00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:54.222 Honor the names of others and speak unto them with respect. 241 00:10:54.222 --> 00:10:56.683 A person's name is the sweetest sound to them. 242 00:10:57.103 --> 00:11:01.544 Remembering and using people's name can make them feel valued and respected. 243 00:11:04.028 --> 00:11:04.388 Listen, 244 00:11:04.848 --> 00:11:06.989 not merely with thine ears, 245 00:11:07.169 --> 00:11:08.529 but with thy soul. 246 00:11:10.570 --> 00:11:17.592 Carnegie stresses the importance of being an active listener and showing a genuine interest in what others have to say. 247 00:11:20.653 --> 00:11:25.054 Thou shalt encourage others to talk about themselves. 248 00:11:26.935 --> 00:11:28.775 People love to talk about themselves. 249 00:11:29.115 --> 00:11:31.836 Encouraging them to do so can make them feel valued. 250 00:11:32.056 --> 00:11:33.957 and create a positive impression of you. 251 00:11:36.438 --> 00:11:39.240 Thou shalt practice sincerity. 252 00:11:40.861 --> 00:11:41.581 Whatever you do, 253 00:11:42.062 --> 00:11:43.002 be sincere. 254 00:11:43.442 --> 00:11:47.444 False flattery can easily be spotted and is likely to backfire. 255 00:11:57.130 --> 00:11:57.390 Wow, 256 00:11:57.710 --> 00:11:59.351 this goes beyond just selling. 257 00:11:59.811 --> 00:12:01.132 These are lessons for life. 258 00:12:02.132 --> 00:12:02.772 Absolutely, 259 00:12:02.913 --> 00:12:03.153 Siri. 260 00:12:03.633 --> 00:12:07.535 I encourage our fellow listeners to check out this uplifting book. 261 00:12:08.336 --> 00:12:08.576 Now, 262 00:12:08.936 --> 00:12:10.657 when it comes to closing a deal, 263 00:12:11.157 --> 00:12:18.021 all salespeople must follow these famous seven steps of the sales process to get a good start. 264 00:12:20.682 --> 00:12:27.826 The first step requires us to identify potential customers or leads in a process called prospecting. 265 00:12:28.727 --> 00:12:29.968 Client identified. 266 00:12:31.172 --> 00:12:32.473 Then comes the preparation. 267 00:12:32.973 --> 00:12:34.994 Before reaching out to a potential client, 268 00:12:35.434 --> 00:12:39.717 it is important to gather as much information as possible about their needs, 269 00:12:40.057 --> 00:12:40.557 interests, 270 00:12:40.998 --> 00:12:41.938 and pain points. 271 00:12:42.698 --> 00:12:47.341 This step also involves preparing a sales pitch tailored to the prospect. 272 00:12:49.042 --> 00:12:52.884 This brings me to the stage where we must craft our approach. 273 00:12:53.484 --> 00:12:55.886 This is the first contact with a potential client, 274 00:12:56.386 --> 00:12:57.467 whether it's a phone call, 275 00:12:57.647 --> 00:12:58.247 an email, 276 00:12:58.467 --> 00:12:59.688 or a face-to-face meeting. 277 00:13:00.700 --> 00:13:05.664 The goal is to establish rapport and create interest in your product or service. 278 00:13:08.407 --> 00:13:10.128 The client is open to hear us. 279 00:13:10.408 --> 00:13:11.089 Congrats! 280 00:13:11.489 --> 00:13:14.572 We now must think carefully about the presentation. 281 00:13:15.433 --> 00:13:16.233 During this step, 282 00:13:16.514 --> 00:13:19.436 the salesperson presents the product or service, 283 00:13:19.776 --> 00:13:21.898 highlighting its features and benefits, 284 00:13:22.238 --> 00:13:26.302 and how it meets the client's needs or solves their problems. 285 00:13:26.382 --> 00:13:28.524 The fifth step 286 00:13:28.804 --> 00:13:30.865 is all about handling objections. 287 00:13:31.465 --> 00:13:36.288 Almost all sales encounters involve objections or concerns from the client. 288 00:13:37.269 --> 00:13:42.692 Successful selling requires addressing these objections in a respectful and convincing manner. 289 00:13:44.012 --> 00:13:44.212 Now, 290 00:13:44.553 --> 00:13:46.554 the client is eager to do business with us, 291 00:13:46.754 --> 00:13:48.915 which brings us to the closing phase. 292 00:13:49.595 --> 00:13:52.397 This is the point where the salesperson asks for the sale. 293 00:13:52.757 --> 00:13:54.678 It might involve negotiating terms, 294 00:13:54.738 --> 00:13:55.899 discussing pricing, 295 00:13:56.339 --> 00:13:58.080 or arranging for a contract. 296 00:13:58.260 --> 00:13:58.920 to be signed. 297 00:14:00.741 --> 00:14:01.182 Finally, 298 00:14:01.662 --> 00:14:06.985 it's important not to forget the importance of following up and the after-sales service. 299 00:14:08.166 --> 00:14:09.146 After the sale is made, 300 00:14:09.306 --> 00:14:15.730 it's important to follow up with a client to ensure they're satisfied and to address any issues or concerns. 301 00:14:16.250 --> 00:14:22.633 This step can help to build a long-term relationship and can lead to repeat business and referrals. 302 00:14:26.696 --> 00:14:26.956 Oh wow! 303 00:14:27.516 --> 00:14:28.997 I'm ready to sell you a pen now. 304 00:14:29.837 --> 00:14:29.977 Ha, 305 00:14:30.177 --> 00:14:30.477 Siri, 306 00:14:30.918 --> 00:14:31.798 hold your horses. 307 00:14:32.298 --> 00:14:34.559 This takes a lot of time and experience, 308 00:14:34.779 --> 00:14:35.840 but you'll get there someday. 309 00:14:36.500 --> 00:14:37.220 In the meantime, 310 00:14:37.461 --> 00:14:41.282 how about we explore sales in the context of global markets? 311 00:14:41.682 --> 00:14:43.403 Sounds like a fantastic idea. 312 00:14:46.264 --> 00:14:46.465 Okay, 313 00:14:46.805 --> 00:14:47.105 first, 314 00:14:47.305 --> 00:14:54.088 let's discuss the different types of products and corresponding sales profile you can encounter on the trading floor. 315 00:14:56.248 --> 00:14:56.810 Nowadays, 316 00:14:56.970 --> 00:14:59.878 banks have entire divisions dedicated to sales, 317 00:15:00.380 --> 00:15:03.047 which are crucial components of business units. 318 00:15:03.427 --> 00:15:04.947 working alongside trading, 319 00:15:05.448 --> 00:15:05.928 research, 320 00:15:06.308 --> 00:15:07.028 structuring, 321 00:15:07.528 --> 00:15:07.868 risk, 322 00:15:08.388 --> 00:15:09.089 compliance, 323 00:15:09.389 --> 00:15:11.809 and other support functions to serve their clients. 324 00:15:12.630 --> 00:15:12.750 So, 325 00:15:13.190 --> 00:15:14.710 managing a research department, 326 00:15:14.970 --> 00:15:17.271 you must come across a variety of salespeople, 327 00:15:17.551 --> 00:15:17.791 right? 328 00:15:19.031 --> 00:15:19.251 Yes, 329 00:15:19.331 --> 00:15:19.712 indeed. 330 00:15:19.992 --> 00:15:20.972 I certainly do. 331 00:15:21.772 --> 00:15:23.873 They come in all shapes and sizes, 332 00:15:24.453 --> 00:15:27.154 but generally they fall into two categories. 333 00:15:28.054 --> 00:15:28.354 First, 334 00:15:28.574 --> 00:15:29.834 you have flow salespeople. 335 00:15:30.334 --> 00:15:32.275 They specialize in asset classes like... 336 00:15:32.395 --> 00:15:33.236 cash equities, 337 00:15:33.436 --> 00:15:34.397 equity derivatives, 338 00:15:34.677 --> 00:15:35.398 interest rates, 339 00:15:35.578 --> 00:15:36.478 foreign exchange, 340 00:15:36.719 --> 00:15:37.399 commodities, 341 00:15:37.479 --> 00:15:38.480 and credit products. 342 00:15:39.001 --> 00:15:42.163 These are standardized products with little customization. 343 00:15:42.584 --> 00:15:44.025 Think about your standard croissant. 344 00:15:44.685 --> 00:15:46.107 They process high-volume, 345 00:15:46.307 --> 00:15:49.589 quick trades with institutional clients like hedge funds, 346 00:15:49.850 --> 00:15:50.710 asset managers, 347 00:15:51.131 --> 00:15:51.871 pension funds, 348 00:15:52.011 --> 00:15:53.032 and insurance companies. 349 00:15:54.313 --> 00:15:54.434 So, 350 00:15:54.874 --> 00:15:57.156 it's like speed dating with financial assets? 351 00:15:58.357 --> 00:15:58.697 In a way, 352 00:15:58.877 --> 00:15:59.137 yes. 353 00:15:59.518 --> 00:16:00.799 These trades happen quickly. 354 00:16:01.187 --> 00:16:02.848 Salespeople are constantly on the phone, 355 00:16:03.248 --> 00:16:03.949 closing deals, 356 00:16:04.049 --> 00:16:05.489 moving at a rapid pace. 357 00:16:05.910 --> 00:16:10.132 Some of these transactions have now shifted onto electronic trading platforms, 358 00:16:10.532 --> 00:16:12.674 managed by what's called e-sales. 359 00:16:14.114 --> 00:16:18.817 The job of flow salespeople revolves around timing and quality of execution. 360 00:16:19.277 --> 00:16:20.438 They focus on volume, 361 00:16:20.678 --> 00:16:21.258 hit ratio, 362 00:16:21.478 --> 00:16:22.619 flowless execution, 363 00:16:22.839 --> 00:16:23.920 technology investment, 364 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:26.061 and the overall quality of their platform. 365 00:16:28.222 --> 00:16:28.522 Okay, 366 00:16:28.903 --> 00:16:29.343 I get it. 367 00:16:29.699 --> 00:16:31.520 Then there are the elephant deal hunters, 368 00:16:31.740 --> 00:16:32.000 right? 369 00:16:32.361 --> 00:16:35.502 The ones handling those massive but less frequent deals. 370 00:16:35.842 --> 00:16:36.323 Exactly. 371 00:16:37.263 --> 00:16:37.864 These are, 372 00:16:37.964 --> 00:16:38.644 for instance, 373 00:16:38.684 --> 00:16:41.225 the structured products or solution salespeople. 374 00:16:41.826 --> 00:16:46.028 They work with a much smaller group of clients but on highly customized solutions. 375 00:16:46.568 --> 00:16:49.890 It's low-volume but high-value transactions with other banks, 376 00:16:50.050 --> 00:16:51.011 insurance companies, 377 00:16:51.151 --> 00:16:51.991 or distributors. 378 00:16:52.732 --> 00:16:57.814 They might spend months structuring complex financial solutions for their clients. 379 00:16:58.595 --> 00:16:58.835 Here. 380 00:16:59.203 --> 00:17:01.044 Sales is much more about trust, 381 00:17:01.524 --> 00:17:02.485 deep expertise, 382 00:17:02.565 --> 00:17:03.345 and patience. 383 00:17:03.846 --> 00:17:06.807 A structured product salesperson needs to be part consultant, 384 00:17:07.047 --> 00:17:07.868 part strategist. 385 00:17:08.788 --> 00:17:11.129 This almost sounds like a long-term commitment, 386 00:17:11.370 --> 00:17:12.070 like a marriage. 387 00:17:12.710 --> 00:17:13.131 In a way, 388 00:17:13.351 --> 00:17:13.631 yes. 389 00:17:14.891 --> 00:17:15.152 Siri, 390 00:17:15.612 --> 00:17:16.832 let's change the pace a bit. 391 00:17:17.533 --> 00:17:22.175 Let's say we step into the shoes of a high-profile salesperson for a few minutes. 392 00:17:22.596 --> 00:17:23.676 How does that sound? 393 00:17:24.156 --> 00:17:24.497 Great. 394 00:17:24.777 --> 00:17:25.637 Should I bring a pen? 395 00:17:26.077 --> 00:17:26.458 Ha, 396 00:17:26.458 --> 00:17:26.698 yes. 397 00:17:27.118 --> 00:17:28.859 You'll definitely want to take some notes here. 398 00:17:29.871 --> 00:17:30.271 Here we go. 399 00:17:33.093 --> 00:17:34.133 Global market sales. 400 00:17:34.374 --> 00:17:35.194 This is Jordan. 401 00:17:35.354 --> 00:17:36.475 How can I help you today? 402 00:17:37.255 --> 00:17:37.375 Hi, 403 00:17:37.415 --> 00:17:37.715 Jordan. 404 00:17:38.036 --> 00:17:40.717 This is Paul from 2050 Investors Capital Management. 405 00:17:41.257 --> 00:17:45.159 We've got $750 million long position in US equities. 406 00:17:45.760 --> 00:17:48.201 This market chatter has us uneasy. 407 00:17:49.022 --> 00:17:50.903 And we're looking to hedge against downside risk. 408 00:17:51.243 --> 00:17:51.643 Can you help? 409 00:17:52.163 --> 00:17:52.784 Of course, 410 00:17:52.824 --> 00:17:53.044 Paul. 411 00:17:53.564 --> 00:17:54.925 Let's dive into the details. 412 00:17:55.445 --> 00:17:57.666 What's your target maturity for this hedge? 413 00:17:58.167 --> 00:17:58.867 Six months for now. 414 00:17:59.491 --> 00:18:01.993 But we're open to exploring options to manage costs. 415 00:18:02.273 --> 00:18:03.493 Creativity is key here. 416 00:18:04.014 --> 00:18:04.434 Understood. 417 00:18:05.094 --> 00:18:08.356 Let me explore both static and systematic options for you. 418 00:18:08.976 --> 00:18:12.158 Everything from simple puts to more advanced overlays. 419 00:18:12.418 --> 00:18:14.239 Give me a moment to coordinate with my team. 420 00:18:19.202 --> 00:18:19.542 Trading. 421 00:18:19.722 --> 00:18:20.362 Jordan here. 422 00:18:20.543 --> 00:18:26.206 I need pricing on six-month at-the-money puts for $750 million in US large caps. 423 00:18:26.586 --> 00:18:28.667 Check slightly out-of-the-money strikes too. 424 00:18:29.087 --> 00:18:29.407 Also, 425 00:18:30.107 --> 00:18:34.669 loop me in on any ideas to structure a systematic overlay to cheapen the sell. 426 00:18:37.370 --> 00:18:37.731 Research. 427 00:18:37.991 --> 00:18:40.312 I need a volatility outlook for a climb. 428 00:18:40.772 --> 00:18:45.374 How are systematic overlays performing versus static hedges in the current market? 429 00:19:03.055 --> 00:19:03.335 Paul, 430 00:19:03.616 --> 00:19:04.256 thanks for holding. 431 00:19:04.517 --> 00:19:05.298 We've run the numbers. 432 00:19:05.678 --> 00:19:06.559 Here's what we're looking at. 433 00:19:07.080 --> 00:19:09.683 A six-month static hedge with puts costs 5% 434 00:19:10.083 --> 00:19:10.844 at 20% 435 00:19:10.844 --> 00:19:11.365 implied vol, 436 00:19:11.725 --> 00:19:13.707 but offers maximum downside coverage. 437 00:19:14.428 --> 00:19:15.049 Alternatively, 438 00:19:15.169 --> 00:19:18.413 a systematic overlay reduces the cost to 200 basis points, 439 00:19:18.533 --> 00:19:20.855 but sacrifices some sharp downside protection. 440 00:19:21.396 --> 00:19:21.857 Therefore, 441 00:19:22.037 --> 00:19:22.677 more gap risk. 442 00:19:23.058 --> 00:19:23.879 What's your preference? 443 00:19:29.215 --> 00:19:30.836 A systematic option sounds appealing. 444 00:19:31.277 --> 00:19:32.938 I'll need to read you the numbers with my team, 445 00:19:33.178 --> 00:19:34.459 but I like where this is going. 446 00:19:34.900 --> 00:19:35.460 Take your time, 447 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:35.680 Paul. 448 00:19:35.961 --> 00:19:36.901 I'll be here when you're ready. 449 00:19:43.147 --> 00:19:43.307 Hey, 450 00:19:43.387 --> 00:19:43.727 Jordan. 451 00:19:44.288 --> 00:19:44.488 Okay, 452 00:19:44.728 --> 00:19:45.208 we are in. 453 00:19:45.929 --> 00:19:47.591 Let's execute a systematic overlay. 454 00:19:48.071 --> 00:19:48.571 Get it done. 455 00:19:48.952 --> 00:19:49.392 Understood, 456 00:19:49.452 --> 00:19:49.652 Paul. 457 00:19:49.932 --> 00:19:52.134 Let me confirm credit lines and book the trade. 458 00:19:52.335 --> 00:19:52.755 Sit tight. 459 00:19:54.779 --> 00:20:00.552 Credit is 2050 investors capital management clear for 750 million dollars on this trade 460 00:20:05.068 --> 00:20:05.408 Trading, 461 00:20:05.609 --> 00:20:06.129 we're live. 462 00:20:06.509 --> 00:20:09.632 Six months systematic overlay for $750 million 463 00:20:10.292 --> 00:20:11.173 US large caps. 464 00:20:11.573 --> 00:20:12.534 Execute now. 465 00:20:16.878 --> 00:20:17.318 Hey Paul, 466 00:20:17.398 --> 00:20:17.859 we're done. 467 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:18.819 To confirm, 468 00:20:19.020 --> 00:20:24.724 you bought a six months systematic put overlay for $750 million on US large caps. 469 00:20:25.565 --> 00:20:28.187 This is exactly what we're doing. 470 00:20:28.227 --> 00:20:29.008 Always a pleasure, 471 00:20:29.068 --> 00:20:29.288 Paul. 472 00:20:29.748 --> 00:20:31.410 I'll send you the confirmation right away. 473 00:20:31.890 --> 00:20:33.932 We'll keep you updated as the position evolves. 474 00:20:41.708 --> 00:20:42.609 This was amazing. 475 00:20:43.009 --> 00:20:45.411 Sales are a bit like a conductor in an orchestra, 476 00:20:45.791 --> 00:20:48.533 making all the instruments play a symphony of service. 477 00:20:49.494 --> 00:20:50.534 I couldn't agree more, 478 00:20:50.714 --> 00:20:51.475 but I must stress, 479 00:20:51.735 --> 00:20:53.016 this is an ideal scenario. 480 00:20:53.476 --> 00:20:55.157 There can be hiccups along the way, 481 00:20:55.277 --> 00:20:57.199 but a great salesperson adapts. 482 00:21:00.101 --> 00:21:01.542 Speaking of great salespeople, 483 00:21:01.982 --> 00:21:04.764 let's hear from someone who knows more about sales than I do. 484 00:21:05.228 --> 00:21:05.508 Today, 485 00:21:05.729 --> 00:21:07.110 our guest is Yann Garnier, 486 00:21:07.350 --> 00:21:09.992 Head of Sales for Global Markets at Société Générale. 487 00:21:10.613 --> 00:21:18.039 Yann has been in financial markets for over 25 years and he is now responsible for hundreds of salespeople across asset classes, 488 00:21:18.399 --> 00:21:18.920 regions, 489 00:21:19.180 --> 00:21:19.981 and client types. 490 00:21:23.304 --> 00:21:23.464 Hello, 491 00:21:23.544 --> 00:21:23.764 Yann. 492 00:21:24.144 --> 00:21:25.986 Thank you so much for joining the show. 493 00:21:26.486 --> 00:21:30.690 We are delighted to have you with us today to discuss sales in global markets. 494 00:21:30.910 --> 00:21:31.070 Hello, 495 00:21:31.130 --> 00:21:31.371 Coco. 496 00:21:31.831 --> 00:21:32.772 Best moment in my day. 497 00:21:33.076 --> 00:21:37.440 Let me tell you that I'm very happy to be with you today on the other side of my favorite podcast. 498 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:41.043 Glad to hear you're a fan of the 2050 Investors podcast. 499 00:21:41.763 --> 00:21:43.585 Before we dive into our main topic, 500 00:21:43.845 --> 00:21:46.788 could you share a bit about your journey with Société Générale? 501 00:21:47.228 --> 00:21:51.251 I started my career in markets as a solution sales covering insurance companies, 502 00:21:51.372 --> 00:21:53.533 banks and pensions in Central and Eastern Europe. 503 00:21:54.034 --> 00:21:55.775 I soon became head of sales for the region. 504 00:21:56.516 --> 00:21:57.437 A few years later, 505 00:21:58.037 --> 00:22:01.180 I was proposed to move to Asia as head of sales for APAC. 506 00:22:01.552 --> 00:22:05.015 to accelerate the development of our footprint with wholesale clients. 507 00:22:05.876 --> 00:22:07.097 We're talking local banks, 508 00:22:07.177 --> 00:22:08.037 asset managers, 509 00:22:08.398 --> 00:22:08.978 insurance, 510 00:22:09.098 --> 00:22:10.940 pensions and corporate clients. 511 00:22:12.281 --> 00:22:14.983 I then became head of capital markets for Asia Pacific, 512 00:22:15.404 --> 00:22:19.527 a role which consists in designing our business development roadmap for the region, 513 00:22:20.268 --> 00:22:21.689 while supervising all the teams, 514 00:22:22.329 --> 00:22:22.750 sales, 515 00:22:22.850 --> 00:22:23.891 financial engineers, 516 00:22:24.191 --> 00:22:26.273 the one designing our client product and solution, 517 00:22:26.293 --> 00:22:26.953 and traders, 518 00:22:27.554 --> 00:22:30.296 the one managing the risks related to our client trades. 519 00:22:31.744 --> 00:22:34.946 I then moved back to Europe as Global Head of Sales for Markets, 520 00:22:35.286 --> 00:22:36.267 which is my current job. 521 00:22:37.247 --> 00:22:46.012 It's a client-focused mission which consists in working with the teams to develop long-term partnerships with our clients across sectors and geographies. 522 00:22:47.373 --> 00:22:54.196 Our purpose is essentially to build with our clients sustainable solutions to hedge their business flows or their portfolios, 523 00:22:54.837 --> 00:22:58.018 or to design for them innovative investment solutions. 524 00:22:58.839 --> 00:22:59.319 In short, 525 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:00.800 finding the right hedge 526 00:23:01.060 --> 00:23:03.581 or the right investment package at a given moment. 527 00:23:03.981 --> 00:23:04.521 And for that, 528 00:23:04.961 --> 00:23:08.462 we are supported by experts such as the ones in your research team, 529 00:23:08.542 --> 00:23:08.782 Cocou. 530 00:23:09.502 --> 00:23:10.363 Thanks for sharing that, 531 00:23:10.403 --> 00:23:10.583 Yann. 532 00:23:11.103 --> 00:23:18.685 It's fascinating to see such a diverse range of experiences from different geographies and roles to working with varied client types. 533 00:23:19.165 --> 00:23:20.045 We're also very happy, 534 00:23:20.145 --> 00:23:20.505 obviously, 535 00:23:20.585 --> 00:23:23.386 to deliver quality content to your teams and our clients. 536 00:23:23.826 --> 00:23:24.986 So let me ask, 537 00:23:25.307 --> 00:23:28.527 are great salespeople born or are they made? 538 00:23:29.588 --> 00:23:30.168 Let me tell you, 539 00:23:30.168 --> 00:23:30.428 Cocou. 540 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:37.004 I was myself not born as a natural sales but I was always fascinated by sales and the sales client relationship. 541 00:23:37.745 --> 00:23:38.605 Sales are powerful, 542 00:23:39.286 --> 00:23:42.348 they transform ideas into reality whether it's a product, 543 00:23:42.788 --> 00:23:43.409 a concept, 544 00:23:44.269 --> 00:23:45.110 a business vision. 545 00:23:45.870 --> 00:23:53.255 The best sales people build trust and long-lasting relationship which allows them to create a unique proximity with their clients, 546 00:23:54.116 --> 00:23:59.800 get proper understanding of what are their deep needs and deliver transactions time and again. 547 00:24:00.704 --> 00:24:00.824 So, 548 00:24:01.444 --> 00:24:02.605 are salespeople born or made? 549 00:24:02.965 --> 00:24:05.846 I believe the first ingredient to succeed is expertise. 550 00:24:06.827 --> 00:24:07.687 It's the building block. 551 00:24:08.867 --> 00:24:09.227 And then, 552 00:24:09.788 --> 00:24:10.868 on top of expertise, 553 00:24:11.488 --> 00:24:12.369 self-motivation, 554 00:24:12.889 --> 00:24:13.649 active listening, 555 00:24:14.029 --> 00:24:14.910 relational skills, 556 00:24:15.150 --> 00:24:16.670 which helps building trust, 557 00:24:17.471 --> 00:24:18.471 sales effort and drive. 558 00:24:19.091 --> 00:24:20.372 And by sales effort and drive, 559 00:24:20.392 --> 00:24:21.352 I mean persistence, 560 00:24:21.452 --> 00:24:21.753 you know? 561 00:24:22.293 --> 00:24:25.194 Relentlessly trying to find a way to deliver value to clients. 562 00:24:25.754 --> 00:24:29.175 These are the common features we find among the best sales in our teams. 563 00:24:29.836 --> 00:24:30.136 Plus... 564 00:24:30.584 --> 00:24:32.985 continuously working on the development of your soft skills, 565 00:24:33.805 --> 00:24:37.066 which means incurring the habit of taking a step back, 566 00:24:37.546 --> 00:24:38.886 analyzing failures on the way, 567 00:24:39.386 --> 00:24:40.187 and learning from it. 568 00:24:40.767 --> 00:24:42.087 This part is essential. 569 00:24:43.267 --> 00:24:44.408 That's a great perspective, 570 00:24:44.468 --> 00:24:44.648 Yann. 571 00:24:45.528 --> 00:24:47.068 Now let's zoom in a bit more. 572 00:24:47.589 --> 00:24:50.509 What skills do you look for when hiring salespeople? 573 00:24:51.110 --> 00:24:54.130 And what does it take to succeed in global markets? 574 00:24:55.551 --> 00:24:56.971 The simple answer to your question, 575 00:24:57.031 --> 00:24:57.271 Cocu, 576 00:24:57.431 --> 00:24:59.132 is there is no simple answer. 577 00:24:59.392 --> 00:25:00.072 No profile. 578 00:25:00.292 --> 00:25:00.714 fits all. 579 00:25:01.296 --> 00:25:02.400 Our clients are diverse. 580 00:25:02.984 --> 00:25:05.705 They operate across many geographies where needs are different, 581 00:25:06.045 --> 00:25:07.406 sometimes very local. 582 00:25:08.446 --> 00:25:09.147 As a starter, 583 00:25:09.507 --> 00:25:11.648 keep in mind that markets are regulated activities, 584 00:25:11.668 --> 00:25:14.069 so on top of financial product knowledge, 585 00:25:14.089 --> 00:25:18.590 we are looking for individuals with a solid spine of core values and principles. 586 00:25:19.051 --> 00:25:20.651 This is absolutely critical. 587 00:25:21.492 --> 00:25:21.672 Then, 588 00:25:21.992 --> 00:25:26.674 the common feature of the most successful sales in market can be found in many other industries. 589 00:25:26.874 --> 00:25:27.594 We're talking EQ, 590 00:25:28.254 --> 00:25:28.374 IQ, 591 00:25:28.935 --> 00:25:29.895 ability to adapt, 592 00:25:30.155 --> 00:25:32.236 capacity to work in a team and cooperate. 593 00:25:32.624 --> 00:25:33.144 Humility, 594 00:25:33.644 --> 00:25:35.685 these are all essential qualities to succeed. 595 00:25:36.785 --> 00:25:39.606 Let me insist on cooperation and capacity to adapt, 596 00:25:40.446 --> 00:25:43.367 as no deal is the success of one individual. 597 00:25:43.967 --> 00:25:49.729 The most remarkable transactions are delivered by the sales having the capacity to bring people together around a client need. 598 00:25:50.769 --> 00:25:53.290 Finding with a group of diverse people in the firm, 599 00:25:53.630 --> 00:25:55.050 the right solution for the client. 600 00:25:55.790 --> 00:25:58.111 This capacity to bridge team is essential. 601 00:25:58.891 --> 00:25:59.811 And at the end of the day, 602 00:26:00.051 --> 00:26:02.072 what makes the difference is the engagement. 603 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:06.821 The amount of work and passion you put in developing a client relationship, 604 00:26:07.241 --> 00:26:07.601 day in, 605 00:26:08.021 --> 00:26:08.442 day out, 606 00:26:09.002 --> 00:26:10.062 understanding their needs, 607 00:26:10.602 --> 00:26:13.223 connecting with them and developing the right solution for them. 608 00:26:13.883 --> 00:26:14.363 To sum up, 609 00:26:14.863 --> 00:26:17.104 what makes the difference is the persistence, 610 00:26:17.564 --> 00:26:18.124 the drive, 611 00:26:18.444 --> 00:26:19.004 the passion, 612 00:26:19.545 --> 00:26:28.947 this fire in the belly that you detect in a candidate that leads you to think that he or she will adapt and always find a way to deliver a deal or close a transaction. 613 00:26:29.867 --> 00:26:31.148 Not any transaction though. 614 00:26:31.828 --> 00:26:32.268 The one 615 00:26:32.732 --> 00:26:34.393 which precisely fits your customers' 616 00:26:34.433 --> 00:26:34.693 needs, 617 00:26:35.053 --> 00:26:38.676 so that your customer will strongly value the advice and come back to you, 618 00:26:39.336 --> 00:26:41.097 what we call client satisfaction. 619 00:26:42.498 --> 00:26:43.398 I know you like quotes, 620 00:26:43.438 --> 00:26:43.698 Coco. 621 00:26:44.299 --> 00:26:45.720 Let me take the one of Hannibal, 622 00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:51.083 when his generals told him on his way to Rome that it would be impossible to cross the Alps. 623 00:26:52.243 --> 00:26:54.004 I will find a way or make one. 624 00:26:54.865 --> 00:26:55.926 That's the essence of it. 625 00:26:56.286 --> 00:26:58.587 I will find a way or make one. 626 00:26:58.887 --> 00:26:59.688 I love this quote, 627 00:26:59.688 --> 00:26:59.868 Jan. 628 00:27:00.244 --> 00:27:02.606 I think I'll probably use it for another episode. 629 00:27:03.426 --> 00:27:05.047 So this was very clear. 630 00:27:05.508 --> 00:27:05.728 Now, 631 00:27:05.868 --> 00:27:11.812 do these characteristics equally apply to sales in flow-driven or solutions-driven businesses? 632 00:27:12.572 --> 00:27:15.554 Flow is first about connecting clients to markets, 633 00:27:16.095 --> 00:27:18.696 bringing them value-added content and trade ideas. 634 00:27:19.197 --> 00:27:22.139 Flow sales navigate a fast-paced environment. 635 00:27:23.019 --> 00:27:23.760 As Siri said, 636 00:27:23.900 --> 00:27:25.721 it's like speed-dating financial assets. 637 00:27:26.462 --> 00:27:29.644 Some asset classes are driven by matching bids and offers in the market. 638 00:27:30.380 --> 00:27:31.320 liquidity aspects. 639 00:27:31.981 --> 00:27:36.263 Some clients will be trading with high frequency like asset managers or hedge funds. 640 00:27:36.883 --> 00:27:37.163 Others, 641 00:27:37.503 --> 00:27:38.284 like corporates, 642 00:27:38.464 --> 00:27:42.085 are driven by more strategic and one-off flow transactions. 643 00:27:42.906 --> 00:27:47.648 The qualities required from flow sales would typically be analytical skills, 644 00:27:48.208 --> 00:27:48.748 discipline, 645 00:27:49.308 --> 00:27:49.909 reactivity, 646 00:27:50.729 --> 00:27:51.529 adaptability, 647 00:27:52.270 --> 00:27:53.710 resilience and grit. 648 00:27:54.851 --> 00:27:57.492 And the best sales differentiate themselves 649 00:27:57.736 --> 00:28:01.318 by delivering great trade ideas or very impactful content to clients, 650 00:28:01.738 --> 00:28:07.862 anticipating macro trend changes like the potential outcome of a change in central bank policy for example. 651 00:28:08.722 --> 00:28:09.743 On solution business, 652 00:28:10.263 --> 00:28:13.525 it's all about bringing high value advisory services, 653 00:28:14.305 --> 00:28:16.166 clearly understanding the customer's need, 654 00:28:16.626 --> 00:28:23.390 what is at stake for him and his business and bringing adapted solution with the support of experts and specialists, 655 00:28:23.790 --> 00:28:24.691 people in research, 656 00:28:25.031 --> 00:28:25.971 financial engineers, 657 00:28:26.211 --> 00:28:27.072 traders and so on. 658 00:28:27.828 --> 00:28:29.969 It's often iterative and could take several months, 659 00:28:30.269 --> 00:28:30.829 quarters, 660 00:28:31.229 --> 00:28:32.270 even years sometimes. 661 00:28:32.810 --> 00:28:36.532 Solution-cell skills should be geared towards active listening capabilities, 662 00:28:36.932 --> 00:28:37.952 analytical skills, 663 00:28:38.352 --> 00:28:39.293 cooperation skills, 664 00:28:39.633 --> 00:28:39.753 i.e. 665 00:28:39.773 --> 00:28:43.975 the capacity to align people internally to deliver the right products and solutions, 666 00:28:44.535 --> 00:28:45.415 as well as empathy, 667 00:28:45.836 --> 00:28:46.956 emotional intelligence, 668 00:28:47.376 --> 00:28:49.097 persistence and patience. 669 00:28:49.697 --> 00:28:52.218 It sometimes takes time to align the planets. 670 00:28:52.598 --> 00:28:53.679 This makes a lot of sense, 671 00:28:53.879 --> 00:28:54.079 Yann. 672 00:28:54.519 --> 00:28:56.480 Quite exhaustive insights. 673 00:28:56.904 --> 00:29:00.165 An important part of a salesperson's role is to address clients' 674 00:29:00.205 --> 00:29:01.726 needs and close transactions. 675 00:29:02.246 --> 00:29:02.967 For this to happen, 676 00:29:03.107 --> 00:29:04.007 as you clearly showed, 677 00:29:04.207 --> 00:29:04.447 Yann, 678 00:29:04.827 --> 00:29:06.888 a salesperson needs to get many things right. 679 00:29:07.068 --> 00:29:07.969 The right solutions, 680 00:29:08.049 --> 00:29:08.789 the right price, 681 00:29:09.069 --> 00:29:10.150 but also the right timing. 682 00:29:10.710 --> 00:29:13.591 How crucial is the role of time in deal-making, 683 00:29:14.051 --> 00:29:15.972 especially across regions and cultures? 684 00:29:16.352 --> 00:29:19.573 Is it better to take time or not waste it? 685 00:29:20.594 --> 00:29:23.255 Time is seen through different lenses across cultures, 686 00:29:23.595 --> 00:29:24.736 from one country to another, 687 00:29:25.196 --> 00:29:25.576 even in... 688 00:29:25.816 --> 00:29:26.877 countries closer to us. 689 00:29:27.758 --> 00:29:27.998 Coucou! 690 00:29:28.338 --> 00:29:32.041 I'm sure you have experienced how punctuality is essential in Switzerland, 691 00:29:32.662 --> 00:29:33.903 less in France or in Italy. 692 00:29:34.303 --> 00:29:37.986 Time and time management are key factors in any transaction, 693 00:29:38.366 --> 00:29:40.468 particularly the most strategic ones. 694 00:29:41.008 --> 00:29:41.969 In the US culture, 695 00:29:42.409 --> 00:29:43.370 time is money, 696 00:29:43.630 --> 00:29:44.211 it's scarce. 697 00:29:44.631 --> 00:29:46.313 And when coming to a negotiation, 698 00:29:46.693 --> 00:29:47.534 there is a beginning, 699 00:29:47.854 --> 00:29:48.655 a time horizon, 700 00:29:49.075 --> 00:29:51.437 and one should not waste the time of the other. 701 00:29:51.877 --> 00:29:52.217 Action, 702 00:29:52.718 --> 00:29:55.180 maintaining momentum and closing the deal 703 00:29:55.633 --> 00:29:58.069 are key to manage in a negotiation. 704 00:29:59.242 --> 00:30:00.042 Time is linear. 705 00:30:00.683 --> 00:30:02.543 Every minute has a price tag, 706 00:30:02.864 --> 00:30:06.665 and time passing without output is seen as non-productive. 707 00:30:07.105 --> 00:30:07.385 Hence, 708 00:30:07.445 --> 00:30:08.146 planning action, 709 00:30:08.746 --> 00:30:13.808 steps and follow-ups are all built up to maximize the probability to reach the goal. 710 00:30:14.628 --> 00:30:17.650 Sales process tends to focus more on facts and data, 711 00:30:17.950 --> 00:30:20.411 follow a Cartesian logic to lead to the end result, 712 00:30:20.971 --> 00:30:21.091 i.e. 713 00:30:21.231 --> 00:30:23.712 the delivery of the output or the transaction. 714 00:30:24.312 --> 00:30:24.852 Conversely, 715 00:30:25.273 --> 00:30:25.993 if you go east, 716 00:30:26.373 --> 00:30:26.793 in Asia, 717 00:30:27.193 --> 00:30:28.354 and I'm going to make a shortcut. 718 00:30:28.674 --> 00:30:29.194 as China, 719 00:30:29.375 --> 00:30:29.795 Japan, 720 00:30:29.895 --> 00:30:32.477 Korea or Thailand are all very different cultures. 721 00:30:32.617 --> 00:30:33.297 But overall, 722 00:30:33.778 --> 00:30:35.839 time there is not viewed as linear, 723 00:30:35.939 --> 00:30:36.980 but rather cyclical. 724 00:30:37.641 --> 00:30:39.502 Like seasons come back every year, 725 00:30:39.882 --> 00:30:41.864 the sun rises and sets every day, 726 00:30:42.304 --> 00:30:44.005 opportunities will come and go. 727 00:30:44.866 --> 00:30:47.188 And if you miss the opportunity to close a deal, 728 00:30:47.628 --> 00:30:51.791 it's that it was not the right time and the opportunity might arise again. 729 00:30:52.511 --> 00:30:53.372 Time is precious, 730 00:30:53.952 --> 00:30:54.913 but with another meaning. 731 00:30:55.594 --> 00:30:55.874 Here, 732 00:30:56.406 --> 00:31:03.750 The time one spends building a relationship bears immense value to cement a relationship as a basis for a future transaction. 733 00:31:04.431 --> 00:31:07.993 The number one goal is reaching alignment and harmony beyond deal delivery. 734 00:31:08.633 --> 00:31:13.396 Pressuring your counterpart to achieve a result will certainly prove counterproductive. 735 00:31:14.277 --> 00:31:14.477 Wow, 736 00:31:14.537 --> 00:31:15.598 this is quite insightful. 737 00:31:16.258 --> 00:31:17.699 Not something I thought about before. 738 00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:19.660 And I guess in Europe, 739 00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:21.641 there are a lot of traditions too. 740 00:31:22.522 --> 00:31:22.662 Well, 741 00:31:22.722 --> 00:31:22.962 coucou. 742 00:31:23.242 --> 00:31:23.662 In Europe, 743 00:31:23.702 --> 00:31:26.984 people tend to value a balanced life fueled of many different things. 744 00:31:27.164 --> 00:31:27.505 Work, 745 00:31:27.605 --> 00:31:28.045 leisure, 746 00:31:28.245 --> 00:31:28.525 food. 747 00:31:28.925 --> 00:31:29.286 And again, 748 00:31:29.326 --> 00:31:29.986 with a shortcut, 749 00:31:30.506 --> 00:31:32.027 the more things you do at the same time, 750 00:31:32.107 --> 00:31:33.128 the happier you feel. 751 00:31:33.968 --> 00:31:35.329 The culture of business lunches, 752 00:31:35.349 --> 00:31:35.930 for instance, 753 00:31:36.030 --> 00:31:37.631 mixing pleasure of food with business. 754 00:31:38.211 --> 00:31:42.253 Europe is probably where the concept of work-life balance has the strongest echo. 755 00:31:42.814 --> 00:31:43.594 Multitasking, 756 00:31:44.054 --> 00:31:45.975 managing parallel priorities while enjoying, 757 00:31:46.156 --> 00:31:48.617 makes the management of schedules much more challenging. 758 00:31:49.077 --> 00:31:50.238 And the more you go south, 759 00:31:50.458 --> 00:31:54.802 the more people would tend to ignore the passing of time and will focus on the relationship building, 760 00:31:55.162 --> 00:31:57.344 the trust aspect versus the deal delivery. 761 00:31:57.945 --> 00:31:58.986 But once trust is there, 762 00:31:59.306 --> 00:32:00.067 the deal can happen. 763 00:32:00.627 --> 00:32:03.189 What I've learned over the years is that in the art of deal making, 764 00:32:03.590 --> 00:32:09.355 cultural aspects are a key factor of success or failure that you experience through frustrations. 765 00:32:09.916 --> 00:32:12.418 Analyzing failures allow you to self-reflect, 766 00:32:12.718 --> 00:32:13.118 adapt, 767 00:32:13.419 --> 00:32:16.962 and increase the probability of success at the next occurrence. 768 00:32:17.426 --> 00:32:21.127 If this cultural factor in the transactional world is something that is of interest to you, 769 00:32:21.167 --> 00:32:21.407 Koku, 770 00:32:21.747 --> 00:32:23.028 I strongly invite you to read 771 00:32:23.468 --> 00:32:25.288 When Culture Collides from Richard Lewis, 772 00:32:25.808 --> 00:32:30.410 a British communication consultant who has deeply analyzed cross-cultural communications models. 773 00:32:30.750 --> 00:32:30.930 Thanks, 774 00:32:30.970 --> 00:32:31.170 Yann. 775 00:32:31.510 --> 00:32:32.570 I'll definitely have a read. 776 00:32:33.291 --> 00:32:37.212 This is fascinating and it does resonate with my own personal experience too. 777 00:32:37.612 --> 00:32:39.572 Growing up in Togo and China, 778 00:32:40.092 --> 00:32:41.813 where I spent 12 years of my life, 779 00:32:41.833 --> 00:32:43.273 then studying in Strasbourg, 780 00:32:43.693 --> 00:32:45.154 Paris and LA. 781 00:32:45.714 --> 00:32:47.635 And later working in New York and London, 782 00:32:48.055 --> 00:32:51.316 people simply don't walk or talk at the same pace. 783 00:32:51.836 --> 00:32:53.396 To paraphrase Einstein, 784 00:32:53.816 --> 00:33:01.478 it's as if cultural time should also have a general theory of relativity with the concept of cultural space-time. 785 00:33:01.838 --> 00:33:02.919 But I think I digress. 786 00:33:03.399 --> 00:33:05.660 Now let's look ahead to the future, 787 00:33:05.760 --> 00:33:05.940 Jan. 788 00:33:06.580 --> 00:33:10.401 How do you see the role of salespeople evolving by 2050? 789 00:33:11.001 --> 00:33:14.402 Is the human factor likely to be replaced by an AI? 790 00:33:14.702 --> 00:33:18.365 robo-advisors that knows you better than yourself? 791 00:33:19.445 --> 00:33:20.826 According to Gartner Research, 792 00:33:21.066 --> 00:33:22.808 AI is expected to fulfill 60% 793 00:33:23.208 --> 00:33:25.049 of sales tasks by 2028. 794 00:33:25.610 --> 00:33:26.090 It's coming, 795 00:33:26.310 --> 00:33:28.852 and I believe it's a great progress for the life of salespeople. 796 00:33:29.552 --> 00:33:32.014 Beyond the origination and the closing of a transaction, 797 00:33:32.574 --> 00:33:34.816 there are a lot of tedious steps in the sales process. 798 00:33:35.176 --> 00:33:35.977 Client prospection, 799 00:33:36.397 --> 00:33:37.438 KYC and onboarding, 800 00:33:37.878 --> 00:33:41.120 and all the pre-trade processes of a regulated activity. 801 00:33:41.841 --> 00:33:43.582 And this is what AI brings to the table. 802 00:33:44.222 --> 00:33:45.623 capacity to risk prospection, 803 00:33:46.064 --> 00:33:46.784 organize data, 804 00:33:47.445 --> 00:33:49.026 bring predictive analysis, 805 00:33:49.506 --> 00:33:50.848 or automate sales tasks. 806 00:33:51.608 --> 00:33:52.329 Don't get me wrong, 807 00:33:52.389 --> 00:33:52.649 Koku, 808 00:33:52.929 --> 00:33:54.270 it bears risks as well. 809 00:33:54.831 --> 00:33:58.814 AI raises sensitive questions at the heart of the sales and client relationship, 810 00:33:59.134 --> 00:34:01.556 like the proper management of confidential information. 811 00:34:02.077 --> 00:34:03.998 These are important issues to manage with care. 812 00:34:04.399 --> 00:34:04.899 But overall, 813 00:34:04.939 --> 00:34:07.902 I'm convinced that AI and sales function are very complementary. 814 00:34:08.282 --> 00:34:09.963 AI can accelerate sales processes, 815 00:34:10.404 --> 00:34:12.926 augment sales capacity to take fact-based decisions, 816 00:34:13.362 --> 00:34:15.263 And when it comes to high-value transactions, 817 00:34:15.504 --> 00:34:20.247 clients will continue to require active listening capabilities and out-of-the-box thinking, 818 00:34:20.807 --> 00:34:20.927 EQ, 819 00:34:21.508 --> 00:34:22.128 experience, 820 00:34:22.488 --> 00:34:25.230 someone aligning people to deliver the right products and solutions, 821 00:34:25.250 --> 00:34:26.751 and an environment of trust. 822 00:34:27.792 --> 00:34:29.633 Let me share this quote from Dev Patnek, 823 00:34:29.653 --> 00:34:31.014 the CEO of Jump Associate. 824 00:34:31.635 --> 00:34:34.476 Empathy helps people see the world as it is really, 825 00:34:34.777 --> 00:34:35.857 not how it looks on a map. 826 00:34:36.918 --> 00:34:40.240 I don't see AI taking on board empathy and emotional intelligence. 827 00:34:41.041 --> 00:34:42.202 I really like that conclusion, 828 00:34:42.262 --> 00:34:42.422 Yann. 829 00:34:43.138 --> 00:34:46.223 One last question and on a more personal note, 830 00:34:46.703 --> 00:34:50.509 how do you manage work-life balance and what's your favorite hobby? 831 00:34:51.510 --> 00:34:52.632 When I started in markets, 832 00:34:52.992 --> 00:34:58.400 a former boss told us in a town hall meeting that a career in markets was not a sprint. 833 00:34:58.908 --> 00:34:59.789 but was a marathon. 834 00:35:00.249 --> 00:35:05.312 And the goal is to manage to strike the right balance between the everyday intensity of markets, 835 00:35:05.892 --> 00:35:06.793 the day-to-day noise, 836 00:35:07.233 --> 00:35:08.774 the overall flows of information, 837 00:35:09.714 --> 00:35:14.197 with the quietness of mind required to achieve your long-term goals in business and in life. 838 00:35:14.837 --> 00:35:15.257 As for me, 839 00:35:15.678 --> 00:35:17.999 what works well is a big dose of family and friends, 840 00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:21.701 managing to fit sports every week in my agenda with tennis, 841 00:35:22.021 --> 00:35:23.582 boxing and a lot of music. 842 00:35:23.822 --> 00:35:24.083 Wow, 843 00:35:24.203 --> 00:35:24.443 Yann, 844 00:35:24.503 --> 00:35:26.524 I didn't know you were an expert boxer. 845 00:35:26.768 --> 00:35:29.069 We should practice in the dojo sometimes. 846 00:35:29.669 --> 00:35:30.349 Unfortunately, 847 00:35:30.389 --> 00:35:33.051 we have now reached the end of this fascinating exchange. 848 00:35:33.371 --> 00:35:34.111 Thank you so much, 849 00:35:34.151 --> 00:35:34.311 Yann, 850 00:35:34.331 --> 00:35:36.312 for your time and your valuable insights. 851 00:35:36.712 --> 00:35:37.552 Thank you for having me, 852 00:35:37.592 --> 00:35:37.792 Coco. 853 00:35:41.534 --> 00:35:42.214 To conclude, 854 00:35:42.574 --> 00:35:49.797 I'd like to share with you three of the best quotes I've come across to better understand sales or simply be a better salesperson. 855 00:35:50.598 --> 00:35:51.398 I'm all ears. 856 00:35:52.078 --> 00:35:53.059 The first one says, 857 00:35:53.479 --> 00:35:55.700 a good salesperson knows how to talk. 858 00:35:56.420 --> 00:35:59.081 A great salesperson knows how to listen. 859 00:36:00.062 --> 00:36:01.043 The other quote is, 860 00:36:01.563 --> 00:36:02.884 sell the problem you solve, 861 00:36:03.424 --> 00:36:04.444 not the product. 862 00:36:05.925 --> 00:36:08.787 And the last one is from American businessman and author 863 00:36:09.127 --> 00:36:09.867 Harvey McKay. 864 00:36:10.728 --> 00:36:10.968 To me, 865 00:36:11.228 --> 00:36:12.749 job titles don't matter. 866 00:36:13.329 --> 00:36:14.670 Everyone is in sales. 867 00:36:15.170 --> 00:36:16.951 It's the only way we stay in business. 868 00:36:18.532 --> 00:36:19.032 Everyone, 869 00:36:19.353 --> 00:36:19.933 including me? 870 00:36:20.613 --> 00:36:21.054 Of course, 871 00:36:21.114 --> 00:36:21.354 Siri. 872 00:36:28.112 --> 00:36:30.793 Thank you for listening to this episode of 2050 Investors. 873 00:36:31.293 --> 00:36:34.275 And thanks to Yann Garnier for his invaluable insights. 874 00:36:34.715 --> 00:36:37.836 I hope this episode has helped you get a sense of the past, 875 00:36:38.136 --> 00:36:38.557 present, 876 00:36:38.797 --> 00:36:41.098 and future of sales in financial markets. 877 00:36:41.798 --> 00:36:44.279 You can find the show on your regular streaming apps. 878 00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:45.620 If you enjoyed the show, 879 00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:47.100 help us spread the word. 880 00:36:47.681 --> 00:36:49.301 Please take a minute to subscribe, 881 00:36:49.561 --> 00:36:49.942 review, 882 00:36:50.202 --> 00:36:50.802 and rate it. 883 00:36:51.262 --> 00:36:53.163 Spotify or Apple Podcasts. 884 00:36:53.823 --> 00:36:55.444 See you at the next episode. 885 00:37:00.176 --> 00:37:00.696 Good morning, 886 00:37:00.736 --> 00:37:01.077 Koku. 887 00:37:01.597 --> 00:37:02.538 Today is Friday, 888 00:37:02.618 --> 00:37:03.458 January 20, 889 00:37:03.458 --> 00:37:04.399 2050. 890 00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:06.340 I am Siri GPT, 891 00:37:06.900 --> 00:37:09.102 your personalized banking sales AI. 892 00:37:09.862 --> 00:37:10.843 Do you need a pen? 893 00:37:14.105 --> 00:37:16.886 While the following podcast discusses the financial markets, 894 00:37:17.147 --> 00:37:20.068 it does not recommend any particular investment decision. 895 00:37:20.389 --> 00:37:23.370 If you are unsure of the merits of any investment decision, 896 00:37:23.751 --> 00:37:25.832 please seek professional advice.