WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.481 --> 00:00:02.821 Hi there, 2 00:00:03.003 --> 00:00:03.522 my friends, 3 00:00:03.704 --> 00:00:05.704 and welcome back to the Deep Seat Podcast. 4 00:00:06.305 --> 00:00:09.106 This week I am in the Spanish region of Murcia, 5 00:00:09.809 --> 00:00:12.028 one of the driest places in the whole of Europe. 6 00:00:12.630 --> 00:00:14.614 And something quite amazing is happening here. 7 00:00:15.317 --> 00:00:19.497 A group of people are working really hard to bring a river back to life. 8 00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:23.559 I came all the way here to meet with Silvia Cuarta. 9 00:00:23.778 --> 00:00:28.262 She's one of the leaders of this very cool and very ambitious project. 10 00:00:29.164 --> 00:00:30.346 If they can pull this off, 11 00:00:30.545 --> 00:00:32.848 and after my conversation with Sylvia, 12 00:00:33.811 --> 00:00:35.650 I am absolutely convinced that they can, 13 00:00:36.412 --> 00:00:42.678 it would be huge because they would be essentially presenting the blueprint to follow for thousands, 14 00:00:42.740 --> 00:00:46.928 maybe even millions of places around the world that face the same kind of challenges. 15 00:00:47.990 --> 00:00:50.943 This episode was made in partnership with Soil Capital. 16 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:52.272 I am your host, 17 00:00:52.490 --> 00:00:52.928 Raphael, 18 00:00:53.506 --> 00:00:55.131 and this is the Deep Seat Podcast. 19 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:03.218 I'm 20 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:04.441 Silvia Quarta, 21 00:01:04.699 --> 00:01:05.301 I'm from Italy, 22 00:01:05.660 --> 00:01:11.390 but I've been working on drylands restoration in Spain for the past six, 23 00:01:11.789 --> 00:01:12.304 seven years. 24 00:01:13.070 --> 00:01:22.031 And for five years I've been working on this farm with a project focused on practical restoration and practical learning. 25 00:01:22.625 --> 00:01:26.234 And now I'm involved in more participatory processes in the area. 26 00:01:26.964 --> 00:01:27.184 Sweet, 27 00:01:27.284 --> 00:01:28.424 there's a lot to talk about there. 28 00:01:29.164 --> 00:01:30.405 Maybe you could rewind a little bit, 29 00:01:30.406 --> 00:01:34.969 you could tell us what led you to become so passionate about ecosystem restoration? 30 00:01:36.742 --> 00:01:40.125 I think it's always accidents and people you bump into. 31 00:01:42.266 --> 00:01:50.735 I studied environmental sciences in my master and through my internship I then went to visit a, 32 00:01:51.281 --> 00:01:53.610 well I worked on a project in Ecuador on 33 00:01:55.113 --> 00:01:59.496 water harvesting and participatory processes with the community there. 34 00:02:00.597 --> 00:02:02.058 And that was quite crazy. 35 00:02:02.121 --> 00:02:02.797 But apart from that, 36 00:02:02.859 --> 00:02:07.984 I stayed for a couple of weeks on a farm of a guy who's a professor at the university, 37 00:02:08.086 --> 00:02:11.430 but he's also managing this piece of land with his wife. 38 00:02:11.445 --> 00:02:13.398 They're both university professors, 39 00:02:13.492 --> 00:02:18.898 and they turned a very damaged ecosystem into a super thriving farm. 40 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:22.023 They were producing food boxes, 41 00:02:22.024 --> 00:02:23.336 and they were doing a lot of farming. 42 00:02:23.508 --> 00:02:26.050 to farmer to farmer schools and trainings. 43 00:02:26.711 --> 00:02:27.894 So to me it was very inspiring. 44 00:02:27.895 --> 00:02:29.273 His name is Stephen Sherwood. 45 00:02:30.035 --> 00:02:30.273 And 46 00:02:31.996 --> 00:02:32.996 I think there I thought, 47 00:02:33.058 --> 00:02:33.215 well, 48 00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:35.441 I really like this life and what he does. 49 00:02:35.558 --> 00:02:41.925 And I like that he has this scientific background and a strong basis for what he does, 50 00:02:41.972 --> 00:02:53.238 but it's also very much with the hands on the ground and working with people from the area to improve everyone's livelihood and not to bring in something that... 51 00:02:53.492 --> 00:03:09.981 he thinks works from the outside and i think that's how it happens and then i worked for more than a year on a project volunteering drylands restoration and then i ended up here the central topic of our discussion today is going to be ecosystem restoration and in particular there's 52 00:03:09.982 --> 00:03:20.200 a project that you're working on right here right in this in this region maybe you could tell us more about this project specifically yeah so actually right now we're in a piece of land that 53 00:03:21.591 --> 00:03:22.185 But it's been a... 54 00:03:22.612 --> 00:03:25.635 experimental plot for the past six, 55 00:03:25.916 --> 00:03:26.918 seven years on this farm. 56 00:03:27.816 --> 00:03:30.539 And that's what I've been managing until a year ago. 57 00:03:31.679 --> 00:03:33.383 So here we've tried to set up a system, 58 00:03:33.406 --> 00:03:34.703 which is an agricultural system, 59 00:03:34.704 --> 00:03:35.601 but it's very diverse. 60 00:03:35.664 --> 00:03:37.289 And now it's finally showing it. 61 00:03:38.445 --> 00:03:39.851 But we realized that working on, 62 00:03:39.945 --> 00:03:41.008 this is only five hectares. 63 00:03:41.414 --> 00:03:41.804 The farm, 64 00:03:41.914 --> 00:03:42.929 it's a thousand hectares. 65 00:03:43.695 --> 00:03:45.289 And we realized that working, 66 00:03:45.601 --> 00:03:46.195 whether it's five, 67 00:03:46.211 --> 00:03:46.976 whether it's a thousand, 68 00:03:47.054 --> 00:03:47.476 doesn't matter, 69 00:03:47.570 --> 00:03:48.820 working only on farm level, 70 00:03:49.320 --> 00:03:49.836 it's not enough. 71 00:03:50.820 --> 00:03:52.164 So with everyone else, 72 00:03:52.524 --> 00:03:54.106 From living and working on the farm, 73 00:03:54.107 --> 00:03:55.846 we started talking about this 74 00:03:56.487 --> 00:03:58.331 Kipar watershed idea. 75 00:03:59.432 --> 00:04:03.678 So the farm is set at the spring of a river, 76 00:04:03.717 --> 00:04:04.874 which is the Kipar River, 77 00:04:05.694 --> 00:04:06.921 and the spring is drying out, 78 00:04:07.100 --> 00:04:08.803 it's been contaminated with nitrates, 79 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:14.100 it's suffering like most rivers and most springs in the Mediterranean. 80 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:16.053 So we thought, 81 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:19.553 what if we work at the valley level, 82 00:04:19.569 --> 00:04:20.256 so with all the... 83 00:04:20.764 --> 00:04:21.405 landowners, 84 00:04:21.465 --> 00:04:22.166 all the farmers, 85 00:04:22.206 --> 00:04:24.690 all the people living in an area which is a watershed, 86 00:04:24.729 --> 00:04:25.229 it's a valley, 87 00:04:25.249 --> 00:04:27.471 so we are connected to the water and it's much more, 88 00:04:28.791 --> 00:04:30.237 makes much more sense than working on, 89 00:04:30.698 --> 00:04:31.057 I don't know, 90 00:04:31.151 --> 00:04:33.057 municipality or regional level. 91 00:04:34.354 --> 00:04:37.198 And then what if we try and bring the change at that scale? 92 00:04:38.276 --> 00:04:41.791 So that's what we're trying to do now and we're working at the watershed scale. 93 00:04:42.307 --> 00:04:49.495 Okay so you have this Kipar river that starts here at the farm and that normally flows through the watershed here. 94 00:04:50.428 --> 00:04:52.770 And that river has been drying out. 95 00:04:53.651 --> 00:04:55.674 And so you have this big project now, 96 00:04:56.092 --> 00:04:57.756 I read that it's 30 years long. 97 00:04:58.330 --> 00:05:01.570 project to try and revive this water. 98 00:05:01.611 --> 00:05:01.791 Well, 99 00:05:02.090 --> 00:05:03.512 it's a forever project of course, 100 00:05:03.531 --> 00:05:05.832 but it's a long-term project, 101 00:05:05.871 --> 00:05:06.695 it's not a quick fix. 102 00:05:07.375 --> 00:05:11.195 There's a long-term vision here to work within the watershed with different people, 103 00:05:11.250 --> 00:05:11.891 different farmers, 104 00:05:11.914 --> 00:05:12.750 different stakeholders, 105 00:05:12.751 --> 00:05:13.914 to try to revive this river. 106 00:05:13.930 --> 00:05:14.359 Is that right? 107 00:05:14.391 --> 00:05:14.578 Yes. 108 00:05:17.328 --> 00:05:21.516 Maybe we could start with the assessment of the current situation with this watershed. 109 00:05:21.578 --> 00:05:22.969 What's the deal? 110 00:05:24.350 --> 00:05:24.510 Yes, 111 00:05:24.590 --> 00:05:29.537 so in the past year we've done a lot of participatory workshops with people from the area, 112 00:05:30.537 --> 00:05:31.057 farmers, 113 00:05:31.858 --> 00:05:32.381 livestock, 114 00:05:32.740 --> 00:05:33.240 farmers, 115 00:05:33.779 --> 00:05:34.397 teachers, 116 00:05:34.576 --> 00:05:35.240 school kids. 117 00:05:35.545 --> 00:05:37.623 So we've tried to put everyone together. 118 00:05:39.186 --> 00:05:39.623 First of all, 119 00:05:39.624 --> 00:05:40.764 to assess the situation, 120 00:05:41.092 --> 00:05:43.873 and really there's a huge agreement on what the problematic is. 121 00:05:44.123 --> 00:05:45.186 So on one hand it's great, 122 00:05:45.326 --> 00:05:45.998 everyone agrees, 123 00:05:46.311 --> 00:05:47.311 we all know what's the problem. 124 00:05:47.312 --> 00:05:49.951 On the other hand it means it's very big and very visible. 125 00:05:51.076 --> 00:05:52.123 And the main things are... 126 00:05:52.546 --> 00:05:55.309 over-exploitation of the aquifers and of water in general, 127 00:05:56.290 --> 00:05:57.389 contamination of the water, 128 00:05:57.413 --> 00:06:04.999 so it's not only too much of it which is used because of the intensive agriculture increasing, 129 00:06:05.538 --> 00:06:09.304 but it's also contaminated because of fertilizers used in agriculture. 130 00:06:10.897 --> 00:06:17.194 There's a huge flow of population that goes from the countryside to the city, 131 00:06:17.272 --> 00:06:18.772 so this area is highly depopulated. 132 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:19.991 It's getting old. 133 00:06:20.947 --> 00:06:28.212 probably within 10 years most farmers here would be retired which means more bigger companies coming in and buying land possibly. 134 00:06:29.353 --> 00:06:36.845 So these are like the core elements and then there's of course the element of the climate change which makes farming in such a harsh landscape. 135 00:06:36.846 --> 00:06:42.735 We are at 1000 meters elevation here so we usually have snow in the winter, 136 00:06:42.767 --> 00:06:43.095 we have 137 00:06:43.626 --> 00:06:49.032 40 degrees in the summer so it's extreme weather and now it's just becoming worse. 138 00:06:49.235 --> 00:06:49.376 and 139 00:06:50.490 --> 00:06:52.912 completely shifting rainfall patterns, 140 00:06:52.953 --> 00:06:55.797 so it makes it really hard for a dryland farmer to make a living. 141 00:06:56.656 --> 00:07:00.558 So that's another huge challenge and the farmers that are still here and want to be here cannot, 142 00:07:00.683 --> 00:07:01.902 like it's really hard to make it. 143 00:07:03.605 --> 00:07:06.629 So these are the core issues that we're facing here. 144 00:07:07.758 --> 00:07:10.721 So clearly the situation here is very complicated. 145 00:07:11.342 --> 00:07:13.365 We have a highly degraded landscape, 146 00:07:13.885 --> 00:07:15.045 depleted aquifers, 147 00:07:15.728 --> 00:07:19.228 young people leaving and farmers about to retire. 148 00:07:20.049 --> 00:07:21.650 So how do you solve this? 149 00:07:22.150 --> 00:07:22.775 What's the plan? 150 00:07:24.830 --> 00:07:26.252 So we're trying things. 151 00:07:26.299 --> 00:07:28.580 We don't know how to go about it because we've never done it before. 152 00:07:30.064 --> 00:07:36.486 But basically we started steering everything we were already doing into this watershed instead of this farm. 153 00:07:38.283 --> 00:07:38.944 So as I was saying, 154 00:07:38.984 --> 00:07:40.344 all of these participatory processes, 155 00:07:40.366 --> 00:07:46.989 so we're looking for projects that allow us to involve people and we just, 156 00:07:47.770 --> 00:07:49.996 thanks to a European project which is called Humus, 157 00:07:50.176 --> 00:07:56.684 we did all these workshops which ended up with the signature of a manifesto, 158 00:07:56.778 --> 00:07:58.075 so like an agreement, 159 00:07:58.106 --> 00:08:02.246 a deal for the valley where we wrote down what's the current situation. 160 00:08:03.094 --> 00:08:03.795 what do we want, 161 00:08:04.375 --> 00:08:05.636 which actions do we need to take. 162 00:08:05.637 --> 00:08:07.240 So we also try to make it very practical. 163 00:08:07.677 --> 00:08:08.619 So the first thing is that, 164 00:08:08.662 --> 00:08:13.943 like we're aware that we need to involve everyone and as many people as we can. 165 00:08:14.466 --> 00:08:23.458 So overall we had between these workshops and also interviews that we did in collaboration with the CSIC which is a research institute from Murcia. 166 00:08:25.521 --> 00:08:26.974 They're also working on this watershed. 167 00:08:27.574 --> 00:08:31.797 because they look for funding and they're part of this other European project, 168 00:08:31.840 --> 00:08:32.957 which is called Landex. 169 00:08:33.801 --> 00:08:36.161 And they're focused on flood and drought prevention, 170 00:08:38.121 --> 00:08:39.723 also through participatory processes. 171 00:08:39.965 --> 00:08:41.246 So we kind of united. 172 00:08:41.247 --> 00:08:41.567 We said, 173 00:08:41.606 --> 00:08:41.731 OK, 174 00:08:42.090 --> 00:08:43.637 we're focusing on the same area. 175 00:08:43.731 --> 00:08:44.871 We're focusing on the same, 176 00:08:45.606 --> 00:08:46.559 very similar issues. 177 00:08:47.715 --> 00:08:56.746 So we combined all these workshops and interviews and we got around 100 people to be interviewed or participating in the workshops. 178 00:08:58.206 --> 00:09:01.467 So I've been living here for five years, 179 00:09:01.506 --> 00:09:02.647 Afons has been living here for 180 00:09:03.026 --> 00:09:04.749 12, other, 181 00:09:05.428 --> 00:09:05.788 Yannick, 182 00:09:05.928 --> 00:09:06.268 seven, 183 00:09:06.409 --> 00:09:06.628 eight, 184 00:09:06.987 --> 00:09:07.385 Jacobo, 185 00:09:07.471 --> 00:09:07.768 seven. 186 00:09:08.206 --> 00:09:09.831 So we have contacts here. 187 00:09:09.885 --> 00:09:10.909 So that was the first step. 188 00:09:10.971 --> 00:09:11.128 Okay, 189 00:09:11.167 --> 00:09:12.253 we call the people we know, 190 00:09:12.846 --> 00:09:13.331 invite them. 191 00:09:14.104 --> 00:09:17.729 So it's a guy that has a farm near us, 192 00:09:17.823 --> 00:09:20.776 or he's the guy that is managing the almond trees or whatever. 193 00:09:20.792 --> 00:09:21.526 So you start there. 194 00:09:22.417 --> 00:09:23.917 And then you start with... 195 00:09:24.798 --> 00:09:28.462 going to the bar and putting signs there or talking to anyone at the bar, 196 00:09:28.522 --> 00:09:30.102 which I've done anyways, 197 00:09:30.282 --> 00:09:30.704 always. 198 00:09:31.165 --> 00:09:36.751 So it's just talking about this and inviting them and asking them if they want to do the interview. 199 00:09:36.970 --> 00:09:41.321 And it's about collecting your voice and listening to you and not, 200 00:09:42.962 --> 00:09:45.274 we're not offering these workshops to come and tell you what you should do. 201 00:09:45.884 --> 00:09:48.821 And then at first people are really not, 202 00:09:49.227 --> 00:09:50.227 not trusting us. 203 00:09:50.243 --> 00:09:50.587 It's like, 204 00:09:51.384 --> 00:09:52.571 what is it? 205 00:09:52.602 --> 00:09:53.571 What's underneath? 206 00:09:53.587 --> 00:09:53.712 No. 207 00:09:55.763 --> 00:09:58.927 And then usually what happens is that when they realize you're actually listening, 208 00:09:59.366 --> 00:10:03.991 they're really happy and they're really surprised that someone is actually calling them and listening to them. 209 00:10:04.749 --> 00:10:09.913 So a very important first step is really invite people and then listen before you start talking. 210 00:10:10.460 --> 00:10:11.382 Yeah, 211 00:10:11.436 --> 00:10:12.054 because anyways, 212 00:10:12.241 --> 00:10:14.147 whatever solution we want to implement, 213 00:10:14.163 --> 00:10:15.444 even if we have the master plan, 214 00:10:15.460 --> 00:10:18.913 it's never going to happen if these people are not engaged in it. 215 00:10:19.069 --> 00:10:21.991 So we're not even really... 216 00:10:22.483 --> 00:10:22.723 I mean, 217 00:10:22.743 --> 00:10:23.524 we have our dream, 218 00:10:23.565 --> 00:10:23.684 no? 219 00:10:23.704 --> 00:10:25.227 We know we have a vision of, 220 00:10:25.586 --> 00:10:26.746 we want this valley to be green, 221 00:10:26.747 --> 00:10:28.047 to be full of more projects, 222 00:10:28.071 --> 00:10:28.949 to have many things. 223 00:10:28.969 --> 00:10:29.469 But in the end, 224 00:10:29.488 --> 00:10:36.719 it's a bit more about getting out the vision that everybody has and implementing that. 225 00:10:36.875 --> 00:10:37.235 Otherwise, 226 00:10:37.321 --> 00:10:38.727 it's never going to be anything. 227 00:10:39.055 --> 00:10:39.524 And the vision, 228 00:10:39.525 --> 00:10:39.961 of course, 229 00:10:39.977 --> 00:10:42.867 is that we ended up creating one shared one, 230 00:10:42.883 --> 00:10:43.180 which is, 231 00:10:43.664 --> 00:10:43.821 well, 232 00:10:43.852 --> 00:10:45.211 that the rural doesn't die. 233 00:10:45.446 --> 00:10:50.289 That we can live in the countryside with the same services that people have in the city. 234 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:56.764 that our daughters or grandkids can live here and have a proper living, 235 00:10:58.807 --> 00:11:03.072 that we can do agriculture and sustain ourselves without destroying our resources. 236 00:11:03.815 --> 00:11:06.674 So things that are really basic in a way, 237 00:11:06.752 --> 00:11:06.877 but 238 00:11:07.736 --> 00:11:10.658 I think it's quite powerful to put them together and have people say, 239 00:11:10.721 --> 00:11:10.846 yeah, 240 00:11:10.847 --> 00:11:11.955 we actually agree on this. 241 00:11:13.158 --> 00:11:14.065 And then action-wise, 242 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:14.299 again, 243 00:11:14.346 --> 00:11:15.236 a lot of things came up. 244 00:11:15.299 --> 00:11:16.549 But yeah, 245 00:11:16.550 --> 00:11:18.346 the other day that we had like the closing workshop, 246 00:11:21.183 --> 00:11:23.765 It was a lot about kind of setting up groups, 247 00:11:23.845 --> 00:11:24.367 for example, 248 00:11:24.368 --> 00:11:30.955 a group to promote local consumption of local product and sustainable products. 249 00:11:30.956 --> 00:11:31.994 So how do we do that? 250 00:11:33.376 --> 00:11:34.494 A cooperative or whatever, 251 00:11:34.580 --> 00:11:35.939 finding solutions in that sense. 252 00:11:36.697 --> 00:11:41.322 And then conversations about doing reforestation along the river. 253 00:11:41.369 --> 00:11:50.306 So how to get maybe a list of farmers that are interested in doing reforestation on their land or creating groups for volunteers that would want to join all of these actions. 254 00:11:50.647 --> 00:11:56.431 So very practical things that now we're going to start engaging with. 255 00:11:58.134 --> 00:12:05.802 I really love that this wasn't about coming up with a master plan and then imposing this plan on everyone in the region and saying, 256 00:12:06.021 --> 00:12:06.201 look, 257 00:12:06.326 --> 00:12:07.451 this is what we came up with. 258 00:12:07.904 --> 00:12:08.888 And this is a great plan. 259 00:12:08.982 --> 00:12:10.107 So let's all follow it. 260 00:12:10.669 --> 00:12:12.044 They did exactly the opposite. 261 00:12:12.169 --> 00:12:16.529 So a lot of talking and listening with research institutes, 262 00:12:16.607 --> 00:12:17.388 with schools, 263 00:12:17.513 --> 00:12:18.591 with farmers, 264 00:12:18.669 --> 00:12:18.810 with... 265 00:12:19.031 --> 00:12:21.474 everyone invested in this community, 266 00:12:21.775 --> 00:12:22.615 in this landscape, 267 00:12:23.095 --> 00:12:27.681 and try to find those common grounds on which to build a real action plan. 268 00:12:28.564 --> 00:12:33.322 I want to turn the conversation specifically towards agriculture and regenerative agriculture, 269 00:12:33.323 --> 00:12:36.212 because that's the central topic of the Deep Seed podcast. 270 00:12:37.072 --> 00:12:41.587 I assume that a huge part of the land from that region, 271 00:12:41.619 --> 00:12:43.587 that watershed landscape, 272 00:12:44.540 --> 00:12:45.931 is managed by farmers, 273 00:12:46.072 --> 00:12:46.275 right? 274 00:12:46.815 --> 00:12:48.196 So they are the stewards of the land, 275 00:12:48.237 --> 00:12:52.423 so they are key to the restoration of this ecosystem, 276 00:12:52.462 --> 00:12:52.641 right? 277 00:12:55.548 --> 00:13:01.087 Maybe first you could tell us a little bit about how you see regenerative agriculture as part of the solution, 278 00:13:01.188 --> 00:13:03.985 how it helps with the problems that you're facing here. 279 00:13:06.376 --> 00:13:06.532 Well, 280 00:13:06.641 --> 00:13:06.751 yeah, 281 00:13:06.798 --> 00:13:09.282 this is also everything we were experimenting exactly here. 282 00:13:09.283 --> 00:13:09.594 It's like, 283 00:13:09.610 --> 00:13:12.501 how do you build a system which is not destroying the resources, 284 00:13:13.141 --> 00:13:14.844 which is sustaining the soil, 285 00:13:14.845 --> 00:13:15.548 the biodiversity, 286 00:13:15.563 --> 00:13:16.344 but it's also productive. 287 00:13:18.020 --> 00:13:19.300 The system as it is now, 288 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:20.339 it doesn't work. 289 00:13:22.839 --> 00:13:23.902 There's a drought, 290 00:13:23.999 --> 00:13:25.323 there's been three years of drought, 291 00:13:25.503 --> 00:13:26.737 no harvest of cereals, 292 00:13:26.800 --> 00:13:29.566 no harvest of almonds because then you have the frost. 293 00:13:31.105 --> 00:13:35.261 And it's true all of these things you cannot control with how you farm, 294 00:13:35.262 --> 00:13:36.402 you cannot control the flood, 295 00:13:36.403 --> 00:13:36.730 you cannot, 296 00:13:36.886 --> 00:13:37.011 well, 297 00:13:37.027 --> 00:13:39.167 you cannot control the climate, 298 00:13:40.339 --> 00:13:40.980 but you can. 299 00:13:42.255 --> 00:14:01.876 diversify enough and and prepare yourself and be resilient enough so that it doesn't kill you but yeah you're you're maintaining and so i think it's multiple layers of regenerative agriculture on one hand is indeed the diversification the the rainwater harvesting all of this known to be more resilient using 300 00:14:01.923 --> 00:14:07.345 local varieties different varieties from the most conventional ones but then And on the other hand, 301 00:14:07.408 --> 00:14:09.673 I think there's also a big chunk of it, 302 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:10.204 which is... 303 00:14:11.383 --> 00:14:28.877 how to increase the value of what you produce and whether it's through promoting local consumption and make people a bit more aware of how nice it is to eat meat and cereals and almonds from your area rather than get the ones coming from california and not having an alternative yeah 304 00:14:28.924 --> 00:14:35.846 okay you expect buyers especially from the local community to understand the idea the project the room. 305 00:14:36.367 --> 00:14:42.691 regeneration and to be willing to make an effort to buy these products rather than other products at the supermarket. 306 00:14:42.855 --> 00:14:42.973 Yeah, 307 00:14:43.035 --> 00:14:44.457 I think if we all agreed on this, 308 00:14:44.496 --> 00:14:46.379 like we all agreed on we have a vision, 309 00:14:46.434 --> 00:14:51.465 which is being able to sustain ourselves here and being able to keep doing agriculture here, 310 00:14:51.504 --> 00:14:53.988 then we're aware that the way we're doing it doesn't work. 311 00:14:54.004 --> 00:14:57.645 So doing it regenerative means we're maintaining the resources, 312 00:14:57.691 --> 00:14:59.004 we're improving the resources. 313 00:14:59.535 --> 00:15:01.004 So then maybe we are willing to 314 00:15:02.122 --> 00:15:02.262 Yeah. 315 00:15:02.402 --> 00:15:04.144 Work for it also as consumers. 316 00:15:04.505 --> 00:15:04.624 Yeah, 317 00:15:04.685 --> 00:15:04.944 okay, 318 00:15:04.966 --> 00:15:05.146 I see, 319 00:15:05.165 --> 00:15:05.286 yeah. 320 00:15:05.607 --> 00:15:09.431 Although I know that most of the times the consumers willing to pay for this are outside, 321 00:15:09.528 --> 00:15:10.368 which is also fine. 322 00:15:10.587 --> 00:15:10.751 Yeah, 323 00:15:11.532 --> 00:15:11.673 yeah. 324 00:15:11.712 --> 00:15:13.415 But I think local awareness, 325 00:15:13.556 --> 00:15:14.696 it's super important. 326 00:15:14.712 --> 00:15:15.853 There's got to be a power to that, 327 00:15:15.915 --> 00:15:16.095 right? 328 00:15:16.096 --> 00:15:22.149 Because if I go to a shop and I see something that is branded sustainable or regenerative from across the world, 329 00:15:22.150 --> 00:15:26.603 and I have no visual connection to that ecosystem, 330 00:15:26.618 --> 00:15:27.321 I've never been there, 331 00:15:27.322 --> 00:15:28.165 I don't know the people, 332 00:15:29.228 --> 00:15:30.931 part of me will be like, 333 00:15:31.454 --> 00:15:31.655 Yes, 334 00:15:31.695 --> 00:15:35.697 it's really nice to pay extra for this product because I know I'm doing good somewhere in the world, 335 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:44.548 but I don't have the same emotional connection and motivation to pay more that I would have if it was the ecosystem I live in. 336 00:15:45.048 --> 00:15:45.712 It's my region, 337 00:15:45.790 --> 00:15:47.353 it's my bio region, 338 00:15:47.368 --> 00:15:47.697 let's say. 339 00:15:48.447 --> 00:15:48.728 And 340 00:15:49.072 --> 00:15:49.556 I see it, 341 00:15:49.712 --> 00:15:55.931 I drive through it every day and I get explained actually all of this goes towards using less chemicals, 342 00:15:56.478 --> 00:15:57.587 reviving the ecosystem, 343 00:15:57.618 --> 00:15:58.556 the biodiversity. 344 00:15:58.966 --> 00:15:59.186 you know, 345 00:15:59.206 --> 00:16:02.410 this river that used to flow here down in the village that's dry now, 346 00:16:02.449 --> 00:16:03.391 we're trying to revive it. 347 00:16:03.949 --> 00:16:04.231 I would, 348 00:16:04.910 --> 00:16:07.653 I would be a lot more motivated to go deeper into my pockets. 349 00:16:07.692 --> 00:16:07.996 Obviously, 350 00:16:08.434 --> 00:16:09.239 not everyone can, 351 00:16:10.074 --> 00:16:10.481 granted, 352 00:16:10.957 --> 00:16:12.379 but to go deeper into my pockets, 353 00:16:12.481 --> 00:16:13.340 even if it hurts a bit, 354 00:16:14.043 --> 00:16:14.324 because 355 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:15.739 I know what I'm supporting. 356 00:16:16.082 --> 00:16:16.676 Right. 357 00:16:16.677 --> 00:16:16.785 Yeah, 358 00:16:16.786 --> 00:16:17.051 of course, 359 00:16:17.067 --> 00:16:17.598 it's a balance. 360 00:16:17.599 --> 00:16:18.004 But indeed, 361 00:16:18.005 --> 00:16:18.973 when you know it's your neighbor, 362 00:16:20.160 --> 00:16:23.035 it's someone you bring the kids to school with, 363 00:16:23.067 --> 00:16:23.410 I don't know, 364 00:16:23.473 --> 00:16:25.145 when you know it's in your community, 365 00:16:25.176 --> 00:16:25.785 I feel like there, 366 00:16:26.332 --> 00:16:27.848 maybe there's a bit more desire. 367 00:16:28.130 --> 00:16:33.897 There's also a sense of when everyone else around you is supporting a project and helping, 368 00:16:33.936 --> 00:16:37.158 you feel more willing to participate as well. 369 00:16:37.502 --> 00:16:38.682 If you feel like you're the only one, 370 00:16:38.697 --> 00:16:39.244 you're kind of like, 371 00:16:39.643 --> 00:16:40.963 if no one else is making an effort, 372 00:16:41.002 --> 00:16:41.487 why should I, 373 00:16:41.541 --> 00:16:41.721 right? 374 00:16:42.463 --> 00:16:44.682 So that the feeling of being part of BioRegion, 375 00:16:44.822 --> 00:16:46.291 seeing that projects are emerging, 376 00:16:46.369 --> 00:16:48.416 that people are getting together to make this happen, 377 00:16:48.432 --> 00:16:50.947 it must somehow trigger something. 378 00:16:51.166 --> 00:16:51.291 Yeah, 379 00:16:51.292 --> 00:16:54.041 and that's really the feeling I got from these workshops that people got there. 380 00:16:54.713 --> 00:16:55.682 Or through the interviews, 381 00:16:55.683 --> 00:16:57.166 you would see people very hopeful. 382 00:16:57.230 --> 00:16:57.831 hopeless in a way, 383 00:16:58.751 --> 00:16:59.953 or at the beginning of the workshops. 384 00:16:59.972 --> 00:17:00.773 And then at the end, 385 00:17:01.613 --> 00:17:01.957 of course, 386 00:17:01.958 --> 00:17:03.117 they're very much aware that it's like, 387 00:17:03.136 --> 00:17:03.257 okay, 388 00:17:03.296 --> 00:17:04.238 now we're just talking. 389 00:17:04.335 --> 00:17:05.378 So nothing is changing. 390 00:17:06.582 --> 00:17:07.058 But yet, 391 00:17:07.418 --> 00:17:09.722 a sense of a bit uplifted, 392 00:17:09.824 --> 00:17:10.683 a bit inspired, 393 00:17:10.684 --> 00:17:11.527 a bit feeling like, 394 00:17:11.886 --> 00:17:12.082 okay, 395 00:17:12.527 --> 00:17:14.761 I'm not alone seeing this shit around me. 396 00:17:15.246 --> 00:17:17.168 And I'm not alone having to fight against it. 397 00:17:17.230 --> 00:17:18.793 There's other people that agree with me. 398 00:17:18.918 --> 00:17:22.058 And maybe we can change something. 399 00:17:22.902 --> 00:17:23.730 That's a great feeling. 400 00:17:23.933 --> 00:17:24.433 It's amazing. 401 00:17:25.587 --> 00:17:27.549 Coming back to regenerative agriculture, 402 00:17:28.711 --> 00:17:34.656 I'm trying to understand how regenerative agriculture practices can help revive a whole river. 403 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:37.000 What's the sort of the process, 404 00:17:37.001 --> 00:17:37.898 the science behind that? 405 00:17:38.703 --> 00:17:43.687 So the idea is that the river is dry because the water cycle is broken, 406 00:17:44.672 --> 00:17:45.172 which means... 407 00:17:47.086 --> 00:17:47.887 There is a rainfall, 408 00:17:48.847 --> 00:17:50.791 most water doesn't infiltrate, 409 00:17:51.330 --> 00:17:51.990 it flows away, 410 00:17:52.052 --> 00:17:54.392 so you have very fast water cycles. 411 00:17:54.412 --> 00:17:55.174 You have the rainfall, 412 00:17:55.197 --> 00:17:55.994 you have floods, 413 00:17:55.995 --> 00:17:57.174 and the water goes away. 414 00:17:58.275 --> 00:17:58.658 Plus, 415 00:17:59.095 --> 00:18:01.322 there's the extraction of water from the aquifer, 416 00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:05.111 which means the level of the groundwater is going down, 417 00:18:05.267 --> 00:18:08.674 which means there's less water coming to the surface through springs. 418 00:18:10.252 --> 00:18:14.799 And one of the ideas of regenerative agriculture is to restore the soils and... 419 00:18:16.854 --> 00:18:18.136 No restored soil. 420 00:18:18.196 --> 00:18:20.058 What they do is that they act like sponges, 421 00:18:20.117 --> 00:18:21.558 which means they infiltrate more water. 422 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:23.421 So by restoring the soil, 423 00:18:23.441 --> 00:18:24.984 you also restore the water cycle, 424 00:18:25.023 --> 00:18:26.726 which means it rains, 425 00:18:27.343 --> 00:18:28.429 the water infiltrates, 426 00:18:28.788 --> 00:18:29.984 it infiltrates slowly, 427 00:18:30.187 --> 00:18:32.929 it goes slowly into the next layer, 428 00:18:33.070 --> 00:18:33.945 into the groundwater. 429 00:18:34.585 --> 00:18:37.648 And then you have months later springs coming out. 430 00:18:37.649 --> 00:18:38.320 So you have this, 431 00:18:40.195 --> 00:18:41.992 you don't rely on the rainfall anymore. 432 00:18:42.730 --> 00:18:42.850 No, 433 00:18:43.410 --> 00:18:45.310 you're building a system which is spongy, 434 00:18:45.410 --> 00:18:46.150 which is resilient, 435 00:18:46.151 --> 00:18:48.390 and it's slower and more long-term. 436 00:18:48.793 --> 00:18:48.933 Well, 437 00:18:48.992 --> 00:18:50.711 now we're really relying only on the rain. 438 00:18:51.390 --> 00:18:52.195 All the water we get, 439 00:18:52.570 --> 00:18:57.875 a lot of it just goes away and floods all the coast cities. 440 00:19:00.695 --> 00:19:01.351 So that river, 441 00:19:01.367 --> 00:19:02.507 it does flow from time to time, 442 00:19:02.539 --> 00:19:03.836 but just in flashes. 443 00:19:04.257 --> 00:19:06.711 The river flows in areas. 444 00:19:06.898 --> 00:19:08.742 So at the beginning of the river, 445 00:19:08.773 --> 00:19:10.523 you see the water has spring, 446 00:19:10.524 --> 00:19:11.179 it comes out. 447 00:19:11.494 --> 00:19:13.637 It has decreased exponentially in the past 20 years, 448 00:19:13.715 --> 00:19:14.496 but there's water. 449 00:19:15.618 --> 00:19:19.063 Then after maybe one or two kilometers it disappears, 450 00:19:19.700 --> 00:19:22.903 and actually the land you can really see on Google Maps, 451 00:19:23.184 --> 00:19:26.387 the land is almond fields all of a sudden. 452 00:19:26.489 --> 00:19:27.903 There's no more river line, 453 00:19:28.075 --> 00:19:28.887 it's just plowed. 454 00:19:29.637 --> 00:19:31.371 So they cancelled the river. 455 00:19:33.231 --> 00:19:34.731 And then a few kilometers down, 456 00:19:35.121 --> 00:19:35.965 it comes up again, 457 00:19:36.153 --> 00:19:37.184 because it's new springs. 458 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:38.340 So it's multiple springs, 459 00:19:38.356 --> 00:19:39.200 it's not only one, 460 00:19:39.246 --> 00:19:39.465 right? 461 00:19:40.622 --> 00:19:41.563 So it's just, 462 00:19:42.244 --> 00:19:43.965 it doesn't have a constant flow anymore. 463 00:19:46.627 --> 00:19:47.030 And of course, 464 00:19:47.031 --> 00:19:48.811 it's much less water than it used to have. 465 00:19:49.826 --> 00:19:52.867 So what regenerative agriculture does by covering the soil, 466 00:19:52.967 --> 00:19:54.889 by doing water retention, 467 00:19:54.967 --> 00:20:01.885 by creating ponds and swales and tilling against the slope, 468 00:20:01.971 --> 00:20:02.728 tilling much less. 469 00:20:02.729 --> 00:20:04.666 So all of this is indeed restoring the soil, 470 00:20:04.713 --> 00:20:05.330 restoring the water, 471 00:20:05.369 --> 00:20:11.588 restoring the water cycle and reforestation actions and biodiversity of the whole system. 472 00:20:12.213 --> 00:20:18.978 There's also this research known that says that rainfall depends also on this bacteria. 473 00:20:19.826 --> 00:20:22.248 that are killed by pesticides. 474 00:20:23.029 --> 00:20:26.230 So you know how the droplet they have to hold onto something to make water. 475 00:20:26.574 --> 00:20:26.754 Okay, 476 00:20:27.512 --> 00:20:28.230 I didn't hear about that. 477 00:20:28.355 --> 00:20:39.558 It's dust or bacteria or very you know micro particles and then apparently these bacteria are changing the temperature at which water condenses. 478 00:20:40.518 --> 00:20:44.002 So then they help to have rainfall at lower altitudes. 479 00:20:44.660 --> 00:20:46.063 So kind of having this like small, 480 00:20:46.344 --> 00:20:48.449 more local cycle rather than the big cycle. 481 00:20:48.723 --> 00:20:48.848 Yeah, 482 00:20:48.926 --> 00:20:49.129 right. 483 00:20:49.184 --> 00:20:49.309 Yeah, 484 00:20:49.324 --> 00:20:49.449 yeah. 485 00:20:49.488 --> 00:20:50.949 There's the small water cycle. 486 00:20:51.012 --> 00:20:54.652 But I never heard that this kind of bacteria was contributing to make it rain. 487 00:20:54.691 --> 00:20:56.293 And so if you use pesticides, 488 00:20:56.294 --> 00:20:56.480 it kills. 489 00:20:56.481 --> 00:20:57.574 There are lots of things, 490 00:20:58.059 --> 00:20:59.199 but this is probably one of them. 491 00:21:00.059 --> 00:21:04.309 Just a quick post to tell you about the official partner of the Deep Seat podcast, 492 00:21:04.387 --> 00:21:04.824 and that's 493 00:21:05.168 --> 00:21:05.840 Sol Capital. 494 00:21:06.490 --> 00:21:14.659 Soil Capital is a company that accelerates the transition to regenerative agriculture by financially rewarding farmers who improve the health of their soils. 495 00:21:15.018 --> 00:21:16.479 They are an incredible company. 496 00:21:16.737 --> 00:21:20.987 I love what they're doing and I'm super proud to be partnering with them for the Deep Seed podcast. 497 00:21:21.565 --> 00:21:23.323 And at the moment, 498 00:21:23.604 --> 00:21:29.776 are there many farmers within this group and within this landscape who are practicing regenerative agriculture? 499 00:21:30.479 --> 00:21:32.620 There are some that don't know they're doing it, 500 00:21:32.621 --> 00:21:33.292 but they're doing it. 501 00:21:37.506 --> 00:21:37.906 Not much, 502 00:21:38.206 --> 00:21:38.386 though. 503 00:21:41.526 --> 00:21:41.748 Still, 504 00:21:41.768 --> 00:21:42.166 I must say, 505 00:21:42.167 --> 00:21:47.127 it's an area which is quite traditional in a way which is also not super invasive. 506 00:21:47.729 --> 00:21:47.971 I mean, 507 00:21:48.026 --> 00:21:49.526 some people have sheep, 508 00:21:50.010 --> 00:21:51.729 which are extensively grazing, 509 00:21:52.190 --> 00:21:53.088 mixed with the cereal, 510 00:21:53.166 --> 00:21:56.065 so it's not a terrible type of agriculture. 511 00:21:58.455 --> 00:21:58.846 As I said, 512 00:21:58.877 --> 00:22:01.549 there's more and more intensive agriculture in the irrigated areas. 513 00:22:03.471 --> 00:22:06.659 some people are for example maintaining this kind of 514 00:22:07.454 --> 00:22:23.046 bit like wetlands area at the bottom of the valley so where they're not really going in with the plows and they have more grains and the animals but only in specific periods in time so they really know the land and they're really aware of what they're doing and and taking care of it as much as they can but what we're trying 515 00:22:23.070 --> 00:22:31.718 to to do it's also to do implementation on different farms so we just got the funding through common land to actually do action on five different farms 516 00:22:32.154 --> 00:22:47.518 water retention actions and we offer trainings through the regeneration academy which is a foundation based here on the farm that does training originative agriculture which are most sometimes open to to anyone so 517 00:22:48.690 --> 00:22:56.565 there's not much happening yet some people maybe are doing it some things so we're just trying to push it a bit more and offer 518 00:22:57.206 --> 00:23:00.850 whatever tools we have and offer the farm as a learning space and all of that. 519 00:23:01.151 --> 00:23:01.331 Okay, 520 00:23:01.409 --> 00:23:02.612 so you mentioned CommonLand, 521 00:23:02.713 --> 00:23:03.831 they're invested in the project. 522 00:23:04.354 --> 00:23:09.221 And you said that they're investing in farms within this region to transition to regenerative? 523 00:23:09.222 --> 00:23:09.620 Is that what? 524 00:23:09.979 --> 00:23:10.120 Well, 525 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:19.432 they're supporting with money to do this implementation of water retention infrastructure. 526 00:23:19.463 --> 00:23:22.604 So whether it's like swales and ponds or strips of vegetation, 527 00:23:23.245 --> 00:23:25.995 so it's very concrete actions on a few farms. 528 00:23:26.286 --> 00:23:27.268 I know that's something that 529 00:23:28.107 --> 00:23:31.332 Alfonso and Yannick have been doing here on the farm for a long time already. 530 00:23:31.371 --> 00:23:32.414 So this is to implement, 531 00:23:32.434 --> 00:23:32.652 I guess, 532 00:23:32.672 --> 00:23:35.633 in new farms who are kind of not doing that yet. 533 00:23:35.734 --> 00:23:35.875 Yeah. 534 00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:37.375 So we are indeed, 535 00:23:37.414 --> 00:23:45.945 we're trying to contact farms of people that have a feeling for this and they like it and they want to do more of it on their land. 536 00:23:46.430 --> 00:23:47.852 But maybe don't have necessarily, 537 00:23:49.383 --> 00:23:49.555 well, 538 00:23:49.586 --> 00:23:49.930 the money, 539 00:23:50.008 --> 00:23:50.570 first of all, 540 00:23:51.227 --> 00:23:54.211 or the knowledge on exactly what and how. 541 00:23:54.914 --> 00:23:55.039 so 542 00:23:55.362 --> 00:24:12.583 we're trying to make it also a bit of an exchange like look we have money to do implementation we have a machinery that can come for a few days on your land what would you do where would you do it and then kind of see if there's yeah if it matches what people would do and what what we would suggest so 543 00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:24.646 that it's again like a co-creation of items yeah it makes a lot of sense you're going for the let's say the lowest hanging fruits which are the people who are already quite interested in this that you probably have met because it's the regions farmers it's It's very... 544 00:24:25.262 --> 00:24:25.582 Social, 545 00:24:25.602 --> 00:24:26.183 they communicate, 546 00:24:26.203 --> 00:24:26.384 right? 547 00:24:26.743 --> 00:24:30.509 So I'm sure that you already had from the beginning an idea of a few people who might be interested. 548 00:24:30.849 --> 00:24:34.333 And you come in with budget to actually implement something good for their land. 549 00:24:34.388 --> 00:24:35.395 So it's a win-win. 550 00:24:35.669 --> 00:24:36.309 Yeah. 551 00:24:36.310 --> 00:24:36.895 And in exchange, 552 00:24:36.911 --> 00:24:38.356 we ask them basically to... 553 00:24:40.131 --> 00:25:01.469 give us proof of what's been done but also to like join trainings and we also would like to we hope that this can also create a bit of like a smaller community of pioneer farmers here that have implemented these first things and then they can also come and exchange and see what the other has done and maybe they like contaminate each other with i've done this but the other guys doing that or maybe that's also nice on my farm and then kind 554 00:25:01.485 --> 00:25:08.782 of learning from each other maybe also things that we haven't done here you also mentioned the regeneration academy 555 00:25:10.455 --> 00:25:14.438 Could you tell us more about what it is and how it plays a role in this whole project? 556 00:25:14.457 --> 00:25:14.578 Yeah, 557 00:25:15.098 --> 00:25:16.762 so it's a foundation that 558 00:25:17.379 --> 00:25:18.504 Janik Schoonhoven, 559 00:25:18.566 --> 00:25:20.504 she's also the wife of Alfonso, 560 00:25:20.582 --> 00:25:27.035 and she funded the academy maybe six, 561 00:25:27.113 --> 00:25:27.395 seven, 562 00:25:27.691 --> 00:25:28.348 eight years ago, 563 00:25:28.410 --> 00:25:29.113 I don't know anymore. 564 00:25:29.941 --> 00:25:35.441 And the goal was always basically to focus more on research and education, 565 00:25:35.926 --> 00:25:37.301 but very much connected with 566 00:25:39.278 --> 00:25:41.400 learning that are useful for farmers, 567 00:25:41.441 --> 00:25:42.041 for the land, 568 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:46.144 and a practical experience for the students. 569 00:25:46.145 --> 00:25:47.187 So they offer different things. 570 00:25:47.203 --> 00:25:51.914 They do programs for students that come here and do their internship and their thesis, 571 00:25:51.992 --> 00:25:55.469 like Marijke that just left and we're doing this monitoring of flora here. 572 00:25:57.890 --> 00:26:02.406 But also they're very much this connecting point between research and farmers. 573 00:26:03.437 --> 00:26:04.922 I think that's one of the biggest... 574 00:26:06.690 --> 00:26:08.751 most impactful work that they do also. 575 00:26:09.734 --> 00:26:12.255 So getting all this information that comes from research, 576 00:26:12.275 --> 00:26:12.896 from academia, 577 00:26:14.501 --> 00:26:16.517 related with regenerative agriculture, 578 00:26:17.142 --> 00:26:19.884 and then making it available for farmers through workshops, 579 00:26:20.001 --> 00:26:23.361 through all these visits that we offer to the farm. 580 00:26:24.345 --> 00:26:25.673 So it's a combination of different things. 581 00:26:25.674 --> 00:26:28.548 And also they work with school kids from the area, 582 00:26:29.548 --> 00:26:32.673 talking about soil health or biodiversity or the water cycle. 583 00:26:33.189 --> 00:26:35.751 So kind of touching on to many different layers of education. 584 00:26:36.731 --> 00:27:00.571 and yeah i would say translating it all into a language which is understandable for different people yeah and making it accessible for people that maybe would not be able to yeah go and find it super important the education part i never thought about it before but i love this sort of circular nature of the project here where on the one hand you have scientists coming here you have research institutes coming to study the 585 00:27:00.727 --> 00:27:04.946 the impact of these practices of regenerative agriculture of many things that are happening here. 586 00:27:06.159 --> 00:27:08.281 to feed the knowledge pool of science, 587 00:27:08.282 --> 00:27:09.302 the scientific knowledge pool, 588 00:27:09.443 --> 00:27:13.427 to help farmers around the world figure things out. 589 00:27:13.744 --> 00:27:16.525 And data comes in from all of these farms as well, 590 00:27:16.548 --> 00:27:20.431 but then it comes back here to the farm via this academy. 591 00:27:20.892 --> 00:27:21.009 Yeah, 592 00:27:21.033 --> 00:27:22.009 and also just checking, 593 00:27:22.900 --> 00:27:24.212 does it make sense what we're doing? 594 00:27:24.837 --> 00:27:27.197 Are we improving soil health by diversifying? 595 00:27:27.337 --> 00:27:28.384 All these things we talk about, 596 00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:28.540 yes, 597 00:27:28.541 --> 00:27:31.228 we can just look at it and think we know, 598 00:27:31.415 --> 00:27:33.447 but sometimes we need to monitor. 599 00:27:34.431 --> 00:27:35.150 and then having 600 00:27:35.446 --> 00:27:38.069 people that know how to do it usually helps. 601 00:27:41.030 --> 00:27:42.432 We've assessed the situation today, 602 00:27:42.534 --> 00:27:45.975 we've discussed your plan to improve the situation. 603 00:27:46.819 --> 00:27:48.116 What's the vision in 604 00:27:48.639 --> 00:27:49.436 30 years time? 605 00:27:49.882 --> 00:27:50.858 If everything goes to plan, 606 00:27:51.882 --> 00:27:53.350 how will this place have evolved? 607 00:27:53.600 --> 00:27:59.772 Everything looks like this and we eat very nice local food and we have 608 00:28:00.214 --> 00:28:00.775 A lot of, 609 00:28:01.055 --> 00:28:01.215 well, 610 00:28:01.236 --> 00:28:01.595 a lot. 611 00:28:01.636 --> 00:28:07.661 We have enough water flowing through the river to sustain all the biodiversity and life and not only farm. 612 00:28:08.501 --> 00:28:13.243 That we have more people choosing to live and stay in the countryside, 613 00:28:13.564 --> 00:28:15.150 more projects similar to ours, 614 00:28:15.212 --> 00:28:15.868 more farms, 615 00:28:16.431 --> 00:28:16.790 more. 616 00:28:17.337 --> 00:28:22.509 We have maybe a brand of products from the Kipar Valley where you know that everything you buy from here, 617 00:28:22.572 --> 00:28:23.900 it's regenerative, 618 00:28:23.901 --> 00:28:24.540 it's sustainable, 619 00:28:24.541 --> 00:28:25.572 it's taking care of the water. 620 00:28:25.681 --> 00:28:28.197 We have a lot of areas that are being reforested. 621 00:28:29.506 --> 00:28:32.226 We have more schools because now all the schools are closing. 622 00:28:33.325 --> 00:28:42.489 We have just a super happy diverse watershed which is functional. 623 00:28:43.489 --> 00:28:45.747 That sounds like such a beautiful dream, 624 00:28:46.653 --> 00:28:47.013 right? 625 00:28:48.825 --> 00:28:55.388 Could you give us an example of a moment where you felt very happy and proud and you felt like what you were doing made a difference? 626 00:28:57.054 --> 00:28:57.174 Well, 627 00:28:57.695 --> 00:28:59.296 the most recent one that comes to me, 628 00:28:59.315 --> 00:29:04.581 it's this last workshop that we had with all kinds of people from the area. 629 00:29:04.761 --> 00:29:05.604 There were shepherds, 630 00:29:05.620 --> 00:29:06.503 there were farmers, 631 00:29:06.526 --> 00:29:11.425 there were people from environmental associations, 632 00:29:11.471 --> 00:29:13.425 which usually are like fighting against each other. 633 00:29:14.143 --> 00:29:18.909 There were people from the municipality and we had people running the bar. 634 00:29:19.581 --> 00:29:22.034 And we managed to have all these people together and to... 635 00:29:23.266 --> 00:29:26.851 come to agreements on actions that we're going to do together. 636 00:29:27.952 --> 00:29:31.558 And when the worship finished, 637 00:29:31.612 --> 00:29:34.237 people stayed and chatted and hung around. 638 00:29:34.917 --> 00:29:35.862 So that I really felt, 639 00:29:35.917 --> 00:29:36.175 wow. 640 00:29:37.128 --> 00:29:37.869 This is something. 641 00:29:37.969 --> 00:29:39.190 I don't know if it's going anywhere, 642 00:29:39.229 --> 00:29:42.534 but I feel like this for me it's already super tiny, 643 00:29:43.475 --> 00:29:44.514 powerful step. 644 00:29:44.956 --> 00:29:48.542 So to get people excited about this and feel like, 645 00:29:48.596 --> 00:29:48.760 yes, 646 00:29:48.823 --> 00:29:50.745 maybe we can do a little bit of change. 647 00:29:51.143 --> 00:29:51.839 I think that's huge. 648 00:29:51.885 --> 00:29:52.425 It's not tiny. 649 00:29:52.464 --> 00:29:53.104 I think that's huge. 650 00:29:53.167 --> 00:29:55.542 Getting people together like that and getting them to talk, 651 00:29:55.543 --> 00:29:56.151 to exchange, 652 00:29:56.167 --> 00:29:56.589 to meet, 653 00:29:56.682 --> 00:29:59.557 to start understanding each other, 654 00:30:00.292 --> 00:30:01.214 listening to each other, 655 00:30:01.417 --> 00:30:02.276 respecting each other. 656 00:30:02.667 --> 00:30:04.167 It can make all the difference in the world, 657 00:30:04.370 --> 00:30:04.651 I think. 658 00:30:04.652 --> 00:30:05.510 So it's huge. 659 00:30:05.760 --> 00:30:06.104 Let's hope. 660 00:30:06.484 --> 00:30:23.293 congratulations for that if there's one key message you would like people to hear and remember today what would it be that you need to bring people together to to actually bring change forward and to do things and i think yeah 661 00:30:23.340 --> 00:30:34.246 now it's a very nice moment to bring people together and it's a crisis a bit no well a bit it is so it can be a crisis and and getting stuck into okay i don't know what to do or it can be a crisis and 662 00:30:36.032 --> 00:30:39.134 This visioning exercise that we do that sometimes people don't understand, 663 00:30:39.156 --> 00:30:44.517 I think it's actually a very powerful and nice exercise to do together with more people. 664 00:30:45.322 --> 00:30:46.041 What do you envision? 665 00:30:46.541 --> 00:30:49.369 What is your ideal situation and how do you get there? 666 00:30:49.486 --> 00:30:52.322 So I think dream and bring people together.