WEBVTT

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We've tested this hundreds,

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 if not thousands of times,

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 that phone numbers in the top right-hand corner on a website on the desktop,

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 or the click-to-call icon on mobile,

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 increase conversion.

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 People don't call as much as they used to.

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 They'd rather text and so on.

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 But having that phone number indicates that you're a real company,

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 and it is a trust symbol.

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 And it is the number one trust symbol on the face of the planet.

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 You're watching Marketing Misfits.

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Norm Farrar and Kevin King.

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Oh,

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 I get the opportunity to start.

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 Kevin King has given me the opportunity to start this podcast.

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 So,

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 hey,

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 Kev,

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 how's it going?

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It's going,

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 man.

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 How are you doing?

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 I'm out here.

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 I was out here shoveling snow this morning.

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 You know,

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 our cigar balcony,

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 where when you come to visit.

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 Got polluted with snow.

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 I went out there and there was like a little white patch here,

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 a little white patch there,

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 a little white patch there.

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That's called,

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what,

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 fairy pixel or fairy dust.

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 That's nothing.

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 You guys,

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 you shut down,

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 don't you?

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 You guys shut down.

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We shut down.

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 No,

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 here's the thing about Texas and Austin.

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 The weather forecast on Friday was that Tuesday,

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 because we're recording this on a Tuesday.

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 On Tuesday,

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 there was a chance,

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 like a 50%

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 chance of...

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 precipitation the temperature is going to go below zero degrees Fahrenheit which means it could snow so on Friday they canceled school for Tuesday on Friday they canceled the entire district canceled school for everybody on on Tuesday that's how we are in Texas is we can't handle this in Austin we don't get very much snow I mean this is probably the only time I'll snow this year and

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 maybe it's it might not in the next three years uh so it's a big deal you know sometimes people say it

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 And snow flurries are coming at 4 a.m.

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 People set their alarms and wake up and run out and let the kids that have never seen it before,

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 you know,

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 open up their hands and let it come down on them and go,

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 ooh,

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 look,

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 it's ice coming from the sky.

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 And that's the.

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As they get hit by a giant snowball.

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Yeah,

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 it's,

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 you know.

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 But,

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 yeah,

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 so it's we're not like you guys up in the great white north where you dig out of seven inches in front of your seven feet in front of your front door.

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just to get to your car you see my picture on facebook yeah uh on facebook yeah i did a picture on facebook uh looking out over the lake okay oh yeah the white out the white outfit it was a com and i was talking about like it was it's snow blindness no blindness

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 is real like it was that bright and it didn't really come out in the picture in fact the picture came out almost completely white i had to add blue tones in so people didn't think it was a fake picture but um

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 uh anyways i thought you for one last thing i thought you were in germany no i had to uh not yet not yet in a couple days oh okay i thought you'd left all right so you know what we talk about you always gotta pivot and change and and be on top of things and we talk about this about ai but

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 this has to do with

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 And the reason I'm talking about this is I had a client about a year ago come to me about why his conversion rates had sucked.

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 He had dropped like they were abysmal.

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 They were just they weren't there anymore.

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 And I looked at his site and he was doing fine on Amazon,

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 but his site was actually just terrible.

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 Things change over time.

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 And you have to make sure just like with AI,

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 we have to keep up to date with them.

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 and he had these awful fonts mixed fonts i mean it was probably okay two three four years ago but now people are looking for like a clean user experience so just cleaning up those images changing the fonts a better call to action a better user experience and even customer journey completely different from a few years ago and

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 when we did that

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 We saw an increase of 15%

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 on his website.

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 And it was just a few tweaks.

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 Like there weren't anything massive.

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 And then the other thing we did,

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 when we talked to him,

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 he was just,

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 he was strictly working off of bottom level,

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 like,

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 you know,

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 the bottom of the funnel for conversions.

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 And we changed that a little bit.

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 So we,

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 in his new customer journey,

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 it really did start at top of funnel and we started to try to convert.

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 top of funnel all the way down and we also saw that that was different nowadays so uh anyways i i just wanted to you know tell you a little bit about that because of our guest and uh i don't know if you have anything to say about that but uh usually do

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That reminds me of that story you were telling me one time when we were smoking cigars about your conversion rate optimization back in the day before you met Connie with the ladies.

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 Or you just changed one little thing,

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 just one little thing,

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 and then you changed the shirt and the conversion rate went right through the roof.

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Yeah,

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 and showered.

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 If I showered and changed my shirt,

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 I would get much better conversion.

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I heard about that.

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 So I was like,

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 that reminds me of that cigar story that one night at 3 in the morning you were telling me.

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 But no,

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 conversion,

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 I agree with you.

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 So many people,

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 there's so many little things you can do.

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 It's not rocket science.

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 I mean,

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 there's little tweaks and testing,

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 and that's what our guest today is a master at.

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 And I'm excited to talk to him and learn some stuff because,

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 like you said,

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 that consistency.

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 There's so many people,

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 there's not consistent between the social media ad and the landing page.

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 for example,

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 just little things like that.

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 And that can hurt conversion rate where it's not saying the same message.

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 The colors are different.

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 Like you said,

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 the fonts are off.

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 There's so many things that you can do to increase conversion rate.

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 Sometimes it's just the way,

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 it's the face of the person or the way they're facing or the way the product is,

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 is it to the left or is it to the right?

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 I mean,

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 there's so many little things and I'm sure we're going to go into some really cool detail and some actionable stuff today with Marty.

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Yeah,

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 so why don't we just get into it?

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 This is a perfect subject.

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 We're going to be talking about conversion rate optimization,

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 or you hear the term

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 CRO quite a bit today.

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 So,

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 and Marty,

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 I hope I'm saying this right.

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 Correct me if I'm wrong,

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 but Marty Grief has a career spanning over three decades in various fields,

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 including sales,

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 marketing,

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 and conversion rate optimization,

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 CRO.

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 And he's held executive level positions in several companies.

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 and is currently the president of Sight Tuners.

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 So welcome to the show,

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 Marty.

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 And let me say,

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 this is my other job,

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 Marty.

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 So just a sec.

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There we go.

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 Well,

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 hello.

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 How are you guys doing?

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We're doing great.

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So all good here.

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 So I will correct it.

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 It is Greif as opposed to grief,

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 right?

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 But everybody on the face of the planet,

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 unless they're in Germany,

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 pronounces it incorrectly.

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All right.

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 Oh,

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 okay.

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All right.

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 So.

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 All good.

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 Hey,

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 I got to say,

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 I listened to Kevin talking about your conversion rate in your personal life.

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 I've got to make a comment.

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 All right.

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 You didn't know what you were in for when you invited me.

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 OK,

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 no.

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 Let me be clear.

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 What I teach people and when people work with us,

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 they learn techniques.

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 that absolutely makes them a better marketer and a better business person,

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 because we teach them that they are all selfish animals and they're going about things completely incorrectly.

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 And so not only do they become better marketers,

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 they actually become better employees,

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 better bosses,

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 better lovers,

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 hopefully not at work,

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 but in general,

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 all right,

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 by taking

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 The principles of conversion rate optimization,

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 which is the other people matter,

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 it changes your life.

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 And today,

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 hopefully,

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 we're going to change some people's lives and help them make some money.

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So,

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 what are you saying you need empathy with your customers?

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You really need to understand who they are,

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 why they're there,

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 and what it is they are really looking to do.

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 Hey,

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 Kevin,

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 can I put you on the spot for a second,

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 buddy?

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Absolutely.

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All right,

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 so here's the trick,

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 all right,

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 in a nutshell.

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 Can you describe my hand?

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Can I describe your hand?

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 Yes,

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 please.

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 You're holding up five fingers.

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 Your palm is facing forward.

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 It's in front of your face.

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 It's close to the camera.

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 I don't have my glasses on because I can't see if you have any marks or anything on your fingers right now.

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 But,

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 yeah,

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 so that's how I would describe it.

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Interesting.

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 See,

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 I would have said hair,

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 fingernails,

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 knuckles.

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 All right.

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 Which one of us is correct?

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You were both correct.

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 Yeah.

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See,

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 conversion rate optimization is all about understanding perspective of your visitors.

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 OK,

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 and being able to understand it to be able to explain what they need to see what you're seeing.

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 And so by understanding both sides of that,

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 that's what makes a difference.

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 And in my team meetings,

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 I can't tell you how many times when people are just talking to each other,

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 I just sit back and go.

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 And they go,

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 yeah,

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 yeah,

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 yeah,

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 Marty,

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 we know.

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 And they go,

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 so,

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 you know,

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 Jeff,

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 what did you mean when you said this?

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 Oh,

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 okay.

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 And Stacy,

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 did you mean this?

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 Yeah,

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 and they wind up in the right place.

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 It's all about communicating.

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 And that's the whole point of convert rate optimization.

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 So we can be done now.

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 Thanks for your time.

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Thanks,

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 everybody.

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 See you.

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See you next week.

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You got it.

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 Just talk to the hand.

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 No,

273
00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:21.500
 that's interesting because everybody comes in,

274
00:10:21.741 --> 00:10:22.241
 everything is,

275
00:10:22.281 --> 00:10:22.501
 you know,

276
00:10:22.481 --> 00:10:25.263
 they talk about marketing pre-framing or,

277
00:10:25.363 --> 00:10:25.603
 you know,

278
00:10:25.723 --> 00:10:29.386
 and your experience influences your decisions.

279
00:10:30.387 --> 00:10:31.267
 And that's kind of like,

280
00:10:32.488 --> 00:10:37.332
 marketing is a battle of perception and perception becomes a reality.

281
00:10:37.592 --> 00:10:38.172
 in marketing.

282
00:10:38.172 --> 00:10:43.694
 And that's basically what you're saying is you need to understand where are they coming from or what is their perception and what is their angle.

283
00:10:43.794 --> 00:10:44.794
 And if you don't know that,

284
00:10:45.374 --> 00:10:46.415
 it's difficult to sell them.

285
00:10:46.755 --> 00:10:47.295
 And then today,

286
00:10:47.315 --> 00:10:48.215
 we'll probably get into this,

287
00:10:48.215 --> 00:10:49.515
 but in today's world of AI,

288
00:10:49.595 --> 00:10:50.836
 there's some cool stuff that you can do.

289
00:10:50.816 --> 00:10:55.077
 I was just thinking off the top of my head on intent-based stuff with AI where you could actually,

290
00:10:55.257 --> 00:10:57.138
 I was just on a phone call just before this,

291
00:10:57.818 --> 00:11:01.579
 where they were actually saying that they can actually,

292
00:11:02.119 --> 00:11:05.200
 you can run a Google ad to your landing page.

293
00:11:06.020 --> 00:11:06.260
 you know,

294
00:11:06.260 --> 00:11:07.241
 on say on Shopify,

295
00:11:07.861 --> 00:11:08.502
 where you can control,

296
00:11:08.502 --> 00:11:09.442
 you can't do this to Amazon,

297
00:11:09.462 --> 00:11:10.723
 but you can do it to Shopify.

298
00:11:11.183 --> 00:11:14.405
 And they can based on they know who you are anonymously.

299
00:11:14.966 --> 00:11:15.586
 They know that,

300
00:11:15.746 --> 00:11:15.966
 you know,

301
00:11:15.966 --> 00:11:19.588
 you just came from this IP address and that the person that lives at that house is,

302
00:11:20.129 --> 00:11:21.409
 is 62 years old,

303
00:11:21.429 --> 00:11:27.733
 and they have three cats and two cars and this and they can change the pictures to actually show you on the clothing,

304
00:11:28.253 --> 00:11:32.836
 show you something that's appropriate for your age on a jacket versus showing you just the general jacket.

305
00:11:33.636 --> 00:11:33.857
 you know,

306
00:11:33.837 --> 00:11:36.519
 that might be appropriate for your grandson or for somebody else.

307
00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:41.343
 And that level of customization is possible now with AI and stuff.

308
00:11:41.443 --> 00:11:54.713
 So that's conversion rate optimization and effectively trying to hone in or guess what the intent is and what this person really wants and how they view things.

309
00:11:55.074 --> 00:11:55.194
Yeah.

310
00:11:55.694 --> 00:11:55.834
 Well,

311
00:11:55.854 --> 00:11:58.897
 that is absolutely one of the tools that we use,

312
00:11:58.957 --> 00:12:01.719
 personalization in conversion rate optimization.

313
00:12:01.899 --> 00:12:02.300
 Okay.

314
00:12:02.780 --> 00:12:03.301
 But you know what,

315
00:12:03.361 --> 00:12:03.641
 Kevin?

316
00:12:04.261 --> 00:12:06.303
 We've been doing that for about 15 years now.

317
00:12:06.383 --> 00:12:13.690
 Personalization and AI have been around for a lot longer than the latest buzz of a year or so.

318
00:12:14.211 --> 00:12:23.099
 So we were running personalization tools that actually did dynamic changes on the fly for websites easily 10 years ago.

319
00:12:23.420 --> 00:12:27.063
 So this is not a new thing within conversion rate optimization.

320
00:12:28.124 --> 00:12:29.004
 But even if,

321
00:12:29.144 --> 00:12:29.505
 and I'll go,

322
00:12:29.785 --> 00:12:31.745
 even if they're not using a tool like that,

323
00:12:31.765 --> 00:12:34.767
 there's some basic things that you can do on personalization.

324
00:12:35.187 --> 00:12:35.427
 You know,

325
00:12:35.647 --> 00:12:38.648
 treat returning visitors differently than new visitors,

326
00:12:38.848 --> 00:12:39.088
 right?

327
00:12:39.149 --> 00:12:39.449
 I mean,

328
00:12:40.809 --> 00:12:41.750
 use an IP address.

329
00:12:41.770 --> 00:12:42.030
 You know,

330
00:12:42.070 --> 00:12:42.990
 they're in Texas,

331
00:12:43.070 --> 00:12:43.310
 you know,

332
00:12:43.410 --> 00:12:43.890
 versus,

333
00:12:44.211 --> 00:12:44.471
 you know,

334
00:12:44.811 --> 00:12:48.752
 in the middle of Canada in the snow doing whatever he's doing.

335
00:12:50.113 --> 00:12:51.414
 With an IP address,

336
00:12:51.534 --> 00:12:51.854
 all right,

337
00:12:51.894 --> 00:12:52.714
 and you welcome,

338
00:12:52.814 --> 00:12:53.034
 you know,

339
00:12:53.054 --> 00:12:53.654
 the Canadian,

340
00:12:53.674 --> 00:12:54.735
 you welcome the Texan,

341
00:12:55.095 --> 00:12:55.355
 you know,

342
00:12:55.395 --> 00:12:56.376
 people feel good.

343
00:12:56.396 --> 00:12:57.036
 And if it says.

344
00:12:57.456 --> 00:12:58.697
 Did you know that over

345
00:12:59.037 --> 00:13:01.658
 3 million Texans use blah,

346
00:13:01.658 --> 00:13:01.818
 blah,

347
00:13:01.818 --> 00:13:02.859
 blah every month?

348
00:13:03.739 --> 00:13:04.020
 All right,

349
00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:06.221
 now I feel good because it's social proof.

350
00:13:06.561 --> 00:13:07.722
 I'm in Texas.

351
00:13:07.842 --> 00:13:08.922
 I'm going to feel good about it.

352
00:13:09.282 --> 00:13:11.984
 Those are simple things that don't even require AI,

353
00:13:12.304 --> 00:13:14.145
 but are a level of personalization.

354
00:13:14.645 --> 00:13:14.825
 Anyway,

355
00:13:14.825 --> 00:13:16.686
let's just like an email marketing where you put the,

356
00:13:16.846 --> 00:13:17.067
 if you,

357
00:13:17.487 --> 00:13:18.167
 on your customers,

358
00:13:18.187 --> 00:13:19.068
 you're sending out something,

359
00:13:19.608 --> 00:13:23.390
 you put their city or you put their name in the subject line or you put their city,

360
00:13:23.930 --> 00:13:24.170
 you know,

361
00:13:24.410 --> 00:13:25.211
 in the subject line.

362
00:13:25.231 --> 00:13:27.092
 17 people in Austin just bought this.

363
00:13:27.372 --> 00:13:33.275
 or they have those little things that fly on the bottom of some websites.

364
00:13:33.635 --> 00:13:34.895
 It looks at your IP address,

365
00:13:34.915 --> 00:13:35.716
 and it customizes it.

366
00:13:35.716 --> 00:13:39.137
 It says two people in Texas just bought this recently.

367
00:13:40.317 --> 00:13:40.498
 Yeah,

368
00:13:40.658 --> 00:13:41.958
 I've seen that kind of stuff.

369
00:13:41.978 --> 00:13:45.200
 So when it comes to conversion rate optimization,

370
00:13:46.280 --> 00:13:53.243
 what are some of the biggest wins that people can get really fast without getting into the weeds or technical or all these little cool little tricks?

371
00:13:53.863 --> 00:13:55.604
 What is just some fundamental stuff?

372
00:13:55.904 --> 00:13:58.285
 that people can do that they just don't do?

373
00:13:59.246 --> 00:13:59.366
Oh,

374
00:13:59.426 --> 00:14:07.050
 I can tell you some quick hits that every single visitor or listener can immediately make changes to their website,

375
00:14:07.210 --> 00:14:07.490
 okay?

376
00:14:08.011 --> 00:14:09.391
 And I'll not only explain what they are,

377
00:14:09.391 --> 00:14:10.232
 but I'll tell you why.

378
00:14:10.772 --> 00:14:13.954
 So if we happen to know for a fact,

379
00:14:14.054 --> 00:14:16.035
 because we've tested this hundreds,

380
00:14:16.055 --> 00:14:17.796
 if not thousands of time,

381
00:14:18.436 --> 00:14:24.660
 that phone numbers in the top right-hand corner on a website on the desktop or the click-to-call icon on mobile

382
00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:26.301
 increase conversions.

383
00:14:26.401 --> 00:14:29.302
 Now what's interesting is we always get a lot of pushback,

384
00:14:29.382 --> 00:14:29.582
 right?

385
00:14:29.882 --> 00:14:32.864
 Because people are worried about phone calls and wasting people's time.

386
00:14:32.864 --> 00:14:33.444
 But here's the thing,

387
00:14:33.824 --> 00:14:36.125
 people don't call as much as they used to,

388
00:14:36.205 --> 00:14:37.826
 they'd rather text and so on.

389
00:14:38.166 --> 00:14:46.470
 But having that phone number indicates that you're a real company and it is a trust symbol and it is the number one trust symbol on the face of the planet.

390
00:14:49.912 --> 00:14:50.032
Hey,

391
00:14:50.052 --> 00:14:50.692
 what's up everybody?

392
00:14:50.812 --> 00:14:53.414
 Kevin and Norm here with a quick word from one of our sponsors,

393
00:14:53.975 --> 00:14:54.235
 8BIG.

394
00:14:54.695 --> 00:14:57.898
 Let me tell you about a platform that's changing the game for Amazon sellers.

395
00:14:58.238 --> 00:14:58.679
 That's right,

396
00:14:58.679 --> 00:14:58.959
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397
00:14:59.499 --> 00:15:00.680
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398
00:15:00.740 --> 00:15:03.542
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399
00:15:03.702 --> 00:15:04.663
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400
00:15:05.984 --> 00:15:11.829
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401
00:15:12.309 --> 00:15:13.370
 And here's how it works.

402
00:15:14.518 --> 00:15:15.599
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403
00:15:15.739 --> 00:15:18.720
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404
00:15:19.260 --> 00:15:23.582
 You know they could fund anywhere from up to $50,000 all the way up to $10 million.

405
00:15:24.802 --> 00:15:27.423
8Fig gives you free tools to forecast demand,

406
00:15:27.884 --> 00:15:28.804
 manage inventory,

407
00:15:29.044 --> 00:15:30.545
 and analyze cash flow.

408
00:15:31.585 --> 00:15:32.586
Visit 8Fig.co,

409
00:15:32.766 --> 00:15:34.186
 that's 8Fig.co,

410
00:15:34.686 --> 00:15:37.208
 to learn more or check the link in the show notes below.

411
00:15:38.428 --> 00:15:39.088
Just mention

412
00:15:39.549 --> 00:15:42.010
 Marketing Misfits and get 25%

413
00:15:42.590 --> 00:15:42.790
 off.

414
00:15:43.230 --> 00:15:44.050
 your cost.

415
00:15:44.070 --> 00:15:45.231
That's

416
00:15:45.571 --> 00:15:46.311
 8fig.co,

417
00:15:46.752 --> 00:15:47.652
 8fig.co.

418
00:15:48.832 --> 00:15:50.273
 See you on the other side.

419
00:15:54.575 --> 00:15:54.775
Now,

420
00:15:55.275 --> 00:15:58.357
 if you don't want to generate lots of calls,

421
00:15:58.477 --> 00:15:59.777
 and some businesses don't,

422
00:16:00.197 --> 00:16:02.298
 then when they click on the phone number,

423
00:16:02.398 --> 00:16:03.739
 it does a drop down,

424
00:16:03.959 --> 00:16:04.259
 all right?

425
00:16:04.259 --> 00:16:06.380
 So it's not necessarily pure click to call.

426
00:16:07.521 --> 00:16:08.301
 It drops down,

427
00:16:08.421 --> 00:16:09.662
 or instead of having the phone number,

428
00:16:09.682 --> 00:16:10.262
 you could say...

429
00:16:10.802 --> 00:16:15.004
 have a phone icon and call a speak with an expert or whatever the right thing is.

430
00:16:15.345 --> 00:16:17.826
 And it's a dropdown and you can have your hours.

431
00:16:17.886 --> 00:16:18.526
 You could have,

432
00:16:18.646 --> 00:16:18.886
 you know,

433
00:16:19.067 --> 00:16:19.987
 FAQs in there.

434
00:16:20.067 --> 00:16:20.727
 You could have,

435
00:16:21.068 --> 00:16:21.428
 you know,

436
00:16:22.188 --> 00:16:22.428
 you know,

437
00:16:22.528 --> 00:16:23.309
 looking for your,

438
00:16:23.809 --> 00:16:25.030
 your order status.

439
00:16:25.190 --> 00:16:30.573
 So you could actually have other things above and beyond just the phone number in there to minimize some of the phone calls.

440
00:16:30.593 --> 00:16:32.534
 And we've done that over and over and over again.

441
00:16:32.994 --> 00:16:34.095
 And it always,

442
00:16:34.335 --> 00:16:34.875
 always,

443
00:16:35.135 --> 00:16:37.316
 always increases conversion rates.

444
00:16:37.717 --> 00:16:38.037
Okay.

445
00:16:38.117 --> 00:16:39.778
Marty number one with,

446
00:16:39.878 --> 00:16:40.098
 with

447
00:16:40.518 --> 00:16:42.739
And showing the phone number,

448
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:44.760
 we try to do that as well.

449
00:16:45.460 --> 00:16:46.241
 I tell people that,

450
00:16:46.241 --> 00:16:47.021
 and it's the same thing.

451
00:16:47.741 --> 00:16:48.762
 They just don't get it.

452
00:16:49.242 --> 00:16:49.522
 But

453
00:16:51.263 --> 00:16:53.884
 I've experienced this myself numerous times,

454
00:16:54.184 --> 00:16:55.045
 is that when I call,

455
00:16:55.125 --> 00:16:57.706
 all of a sudden I get into this voicemail,

456
00:16:58.266 --> 00:16:59.307
 no return calls.

457
00:16:59.567 --> 00:17:03.669
 It just becomes frustrating because now you're trying to figure out how to contact them,

458
00:17:04.749 --> 00:17:05.970
 and it's just a wasted call.

459
00:17:06.666 --> 00:17:06.866
Right.

460
00:17:07.086 --> 00:17:11.928
 So when you have your phone number up there and you have the hours that you actually answer the phone,

461
00:17:12.988 --> 00:17:13.348
 I don't know.

462
00:17:13.388 --> 00:17:13.948
 Here's a hint.

463
00:17:14.388 --> 00:17:15.489
 Answer the freaking phone.

464
00:17:15.709 --> 00:17:15.829
 OK,

465
00:17:17.209 --> 00:17:18.389
 it's not that hard.

466
00:17:18.790 --> 00:17:19.070
 You know,

467
00:17:19.190 --> 00:17:21.030
 and if you're not going to answer the phone,

468
00:17:21.510 --> 00:17:25.351
 then you you either get an agency to answer the phone for you.

469
00:17:25.912 --> 00:17:28.372
 Or if you're going into a voicemail system,

470
00:17:28.452 --> 00:17:31.493
 make sure that that voicemail system provides love.

471
00:17:31.593 --> 00:17:33.774
 Make the person feel like they matter.

472
00:17:34.194 --> 00:17:36.936
 don't make them feel like they just called the cable company.

473
00:17:38.577 --> 00:17:39.298
 Don't do that.

474
00:17:39.398 --> 00:17:40.318
 Nobody likes that.

475
00:17:40.679 --> 00:17:44.361
 So if you've got a voicemail system,

476
00:17:44.481 --> 00:17:45.862
 and I'll use SiteTuners.

477
00:17:46.323 --> 00:17:47.463
 We have people answering the phone.

478
00:17:47.984 --> 00:17:50.125
 But if you call SiteTuners and we didn't have it,

479
00:17:50.365 --> 00:17:51.306
 I would like you to say,

480
00:17:51.826 --> 00:17:52.107
 Hi,

481
00:17:52.187 --> 00:17:53.468
 you've reached SiteTuners.

482
00:17:53.968 --> 00:17:56.630
 I'm really sorry we couldn't take your call at this moment.

483
00:17:56.950 --> 00:17:57.330
 However,

484
00:17:57.390 --> 00:18:02.074
 we would love to help you increase your conversion rate optimization on your site.

485
00:18:02.514 --> 00:18:07.796
 The best thing to do would be to book an appointment and you can schedule that right online.

486
00:18:08.156 --> 00:18:11.138
 If you have some other questions that you'd like to talk about in advance,

487
00:18:11.498 --> 00:18:13.018
 here's a couple options for you.

488
00:18:13.458 --> 00:18:15.419
 You can send us an email at such and such,

489
00:18:15.479 --> 00:18:16.060
 such and such.

490
00:18:16.580 --> 00:18:19.641
 Or you can leave a detailed voicemail.

491
00:18:19.981 --> 00:18:25.884
 And I promise you that somebody will call back or send you a follow up email.

492
00:18:26.124 --> 00:18:26.644
 Either way,

493
00:18:27.084 --> 00:18:31.046
 you are not in the forest by yourself looking at trees going,

494
00:18:31.186 --> 00:18:31.846
 I'm lost.

495
00:18:32.274 --> 00:18:33.595
 We're here to guide you out of it.

496
00:18:34.376 --> 00:18:37.458
 That's the kind of voicemail you leave on your system.

497
00:18:37.718 --> 00:18:37.998
 All right.

498
00:18:38.358 --> 00:18:39.279
 Give me some love.

499
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:40.800
 Make me feel like I matter.

500
00:18:42.261 --> 00:18:42.601
You know what?

501
00:18:42.901 --> 00:18:43.622
 When you're saying that,

502
00:18:43.662 --> 00:18:46.024
 I'm thinking in my own head psychologically,

503
00:18:46.024 --> 00:18:47.605
 because I love the psychology of marketing.

504
00:18:48.005 --> 00:18:51.047
 I'm thinking like if I saw a phone number,

505
00:18:51.087 --> 00:18:52.748
 especially if it wasn't an 800 number,

506
00:18:52.808 --> 00:18:54.269
 if it was like a local area code,

507
00:18:54.649 --> 00:18:55.010
 call us.

508
00:18:55.330 --> 00:18:57.652
 That seems even more personal to me than an 800 number.

509
00:18:58.392 --> 00:19:01.274
 If it is called 323-555-1212.

510
00:19:01.818 --> 00:19:02.899
 I probably would not call it,

511
00:19:02.999 --> 00:19:05.261
 but the fact that it's there will give me confidence.

512
00:19:06.482 --> 00:19:07.483
 And it will give me like,

513
00:19:07.523 --> 00:19:07.803
 okay.

514
00:19:08.724 --> 00:19:10.526
 And there's someone in our space that

515
00:19:10.926 --> 00:19:14.429
 I don't know if you know Perry Belcher in the marketing space.

516
00:19:14.729 --> 00:19:15.570
 But Perry Belcher,

517
00:19:15.650 --> 00:19:17.031
 at every talk he does,

518
00:19:17.612 --> 00:19:18.373
 he gives out,

519
00:19:18.753 --> 00:19:20.695
 at every presentation he does,

520
00:19:21.115 --> 00:19:22.917
 he gives out his personal cell phone number.

521
00:19:22.937 --> 00:19:23.377
 And he's like,

522
00:19:23.397 --> 00:19:25.439
 this is the phone that rings in my pocket right here.

523
00:19:25.479 --> 00:19:26.440
 This is not something.

524
00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:29.062
 And I'm sure he gets blasted with like.

525
00:19:29.650 --> 00:19:29.991
 everything.

526
00:19:30.031 --> 00:19:31.092
 But he just did an event,

527
00:19:31.132 --> 00:19:31.993
 an AI summit,

528
00:19:33.474 --> 00:19:34.696
 Norm and I were at recently,

529
00:19:35.276 --> 00:19:39.922
 and he converted almost one third of the room into a $3,000 deal.

530
00:19:40.402 --> 00:19:50.794
 And I bet the fact that he gave out his phone number in there throughout the presentation actually helped build confidence and trust in him that led to actually more people buying that $3,000.

531
00:19:52.610 --> 00:19:53.151
 You know,

532
00:19:53.291 --> 00:19:54.611
 that's now it makes,

533
00:19:54.671 --> 00:19:55.091
 I was like,

534
00:19:55.111 --> 00:19:57.132
 why the hell would he ever give out that damn number?

535
00:19:57.672 --> 00:19:58.552
 And he answers that number.

536
00:19:58.572 --> 00:19:58.772
 I mean,

537
00:19:58.792 --> 00:19:59.273
 I text that.

538
00:19:59.313 --> 00:20:02.794
 That's the number that when I contact him because we do stuff together sometimes.

539
00:20:03.694 --> 00:20:04.614
 He didn't answer everything,

540
00:20:04.994 --> 00:20:08.495
 but he does answer that and picks up that phone number.

541
00:20:08.515 --> 00:20:09.216
 So it's legit.

542
00:20:09.736 --> 00:20:09.856
Oh,

543
00:20:09.916 --> 00:20:10.076
 yeah.

544
00:20:10.736 --> 00:20:10.936
 Well,

545
00:20:11.596 --> 00:20:14.757
 let's go back to being authentic matters also.

546
00:20:15.758 --> 00:20:15.938
 Yeah.

547
00:20:16.818 --> 00:20:16.938
 Oh,

548
00:20:16.958 --> 00:20:17.999
 I have to share something.

549
00:20:18.580 --> 00:20:19.441
 I'm not retired.

550
00:20:19.781 --> 00:20:20.041
 You know,

551
00:20:20.802 --> 00:20:23.985
 I bought site tuners about five years ago or so because

552
00:20:24.325 --> 00:20:25.346
 I was really enjoying this.

553
00:20:25.827 --> 00:20:27.408
 But the day I retire,

554
00:20:27.608 --> 00:20:28.789
 the day I retire,

555
00:20:28.809 --> 00:20:29.470
 if I ever do,

556
00:20:29.810 --> 00:20:30.071
 okay,

557
00:20:30.411 --> 00:20:32.313
 I am changing my voicemail to say,

558
00:20:32.373 --> 00:20:32.553
 hi,

559
00:20:32.633 --> 00:20:33.674
 you've reached Marty Greif.

560
00:20:34.234 --> 00:20:35.215
 I'm sorry I missed you.

561
00:20:35.736 --> 00:20:36.036
 However,

562
00:20:36.096 --> 00:20:36.497
 recently,

563
00:20:36.557 --> 00:20:37.978
 I've made some changes in my life.

564
00:20:38.058 --> 00:20:39.900
 If you leave a message and I don't call you back,

565
00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:41.121
 you're probably one of them.

566
00:20:45.624 --> 00:21:03.557
someday that's what my voicemail is gonna say well my voicemail i get so much spam so much freaking spam like uh that that i actually do not answer my phone um unless i'm directly expecting a call and so my voicemail says that uh

567
00:21:03.557 --> 00:21:10.382
 i'm uh thanks for calling me uh this is kevin uh i i'm not gonna answer this call and if you leave a message i'm not gonna listen to it

568
00:21:11.062 --> 00:21:14.964
 I get so much junk that wastes so much of my time that

569
00:21:15.324 --> 00:21:16.825
 I've even thought about changing my number,

570
00:21:16.905 --> 00:21:19.426
 having a second number that I actually give out to people that I want to talk to.

571
00:21:21.867 --> 00:21:22.327
So Kevin,

572
00:21:22.367 --> 00:21:24.788
 I would call you once and that would be the end of it.

573
00:21:25.669 --> 00:21:25.809
Yeah.

574
00:21:25.989 --> 00:21:26.229
 I mean,

575
00:21:26.249 --> 00:21:28.370
 but I'm not putting my number out there to do business with.

576
00:21:28.450 --> 00:21:28.730
 I mean,

577
00:21:28.790 --> 00:21:29.590
 so I'm not putting,

578
00:21:29.671 --> 00:21:30.231
 it's not like,

579
00:21:30.631 --> 00:21:31.852
 it's not on a website somewhere.

580
00:21:31.892 --> 00:21:36.474
 It's not somewhere where to actually encourage people to call me.

581
00:21:38.094 --> 00:21:41.617
 But it creates problems sometimes when I got a pizza delivery coming during a football game.

582
00:21:41.617 --> 00:21:43.718
 They're trying to reach me to say we're downstairs.

583
00:21:43.738 --> 00:21:43.999
 I'm like,

584
00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:44.819
 I can't get my phone.

585
00:21:45.259 --> 00:21:45.640
 I was like,

586
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:46.120
 so,

587
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:46.680
 but no,

588
00:21:46.761 --> 00:21:47.121
 that's a,

589
00:21:48.322 --> 00:21:50.103
 I don't know.

590
00:21:50.143 --> 00:21:52.525
 It's making me rethink that a little bit,

591
00:21:52.565 --> 00:21:53.686
 but I'm not trying to convert people.

592
00:21:53.946 --> 00:21:55.587
I've told him this a thousand times.

593
00:21:55.587 --> 00:21:56.648
 He never rethunk it.

594
00:21:57.068 --> 00:21:57.328
 You know,

595
00:21:57.648 --> 00:21:58.589
 no rethinking.

596
00:21:59.630 --> 00:21:59.790
Yeah.

597
00:21:59.790 --> 00:22:01.811
 Can we go back to what I started with?

598
00:22:02.312 --> 00:22:03.893
 If you don't look at my principles,

599
00:22:03.993 --> 00:22:04.934
 it makes you a better.

600
00:22:05.354 --> 00:22:05.734
 Boss,

601
00:22:05.874 --> 00:22:06.335
 employee,

602
00:22:06.435 --> 00:22:07.235
Marty,

603
00:22:08.056 --> 00:22:08.636
and lover,

604
00:22:08.836 --> 00:22:09.636
 and spouse,

605
00:22:09.716 --> 00:22:10.297
 and boyfriend,

606
00:22:10.357 --> 00:22:10.857
girlfriend.

607
00:22:11.437 --> 00:22:15.620
 I think you're missing out on- No wonder I can't get any ladies.

608
00:22:15.700 --> 00:22:17.621
 No wonder I'm having a tough time.

609
00:22:17.661 --> 00:22:19.082
 Now it's all coming together.

610
00:22:19.142 --> 00:22:19.402
 Norm,

611
00:22:19.402 --> 00:22:20.262
 why didn't you tell me this?

612
00:22:21.023 --> 00:22:22.003
A thousand times.

613
00:22:22.043 --> 00:22:23.144
Why didn't you tell me this?

614
00:22:23.164 --> 00:22:25.325
 This is why I'm single and solo.

615
00:22:28.347 --> 00:22:28.467
 No,

616
00:22:28.647 --> 00:22:29.767
 that's awesome.

617
00:22:30.408 --> 00:22:31.708
 So you were giving us some quick wins,

618
00:22:31.989 --> 00:22:32.209
 Marty.

619
00:22:33.109 --> 00:22:33.950
 One is the phone number.

620
00:22:34.630 --> 00:22:36.411
 which makes total perfect sense.

621
00:22:36.651 --> 00:22:36.771
 Yeah.

622
00:22:37.651 --> 00:22:38.252
 What's another one?

623
00:22:38.652 --> 00:22:43.854
So you've got a website and you see a pop-up banner and entry pop.

624
00:22:44.174 --> 00:22:44.354
 Okay.

625
00:22:44.935 --> 00:22:45.075
 Now,

626
00:22:45.135 --> 00:22:47.396
 while we're big fans of pop-ups,

627
00:22:47.436 --> 00:22:52.058
 we like ones that are in context and ones that are maybe exit pop,

628
00:22:52.518 --> 00:22:54.479
 but not ones that are entry.

629
00:22:54.499 --> 00:22:56.660
 Because I don't know who you are on your website yet.

630
00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:58.261
 I don't know if I want to do business with you.

631
00:22:58.541 --> 00:23:00.542
 And basically what you're doing is you're doing.

632
00:23:02.266 --> 00:23:02.927
 Don't do that,

633
00:23:03.147 --> 00:23:03.487
 okay?

634
00:23:03.947 --> 00:23:05.028
 It's just a bad,

635
00:23:05.468 --> 00:23:07.409
 nobody wants to work with that person.

636
00:23:07.829 --> 00:23:10.090
 So entry pops are rude.

637
00:23:10.390 --> 00:23:12.251
 And we've had clients say to us,

638
00:23:12.632 --> 00:23:14.192
 but when we did this entry pop,

639
00:23:14.553 --> 00:23:15.733
 our subscriptions went up,

640
00:23:15.833 --> 00:23:16.393
 this went up,

641
00:23:16.513 --> 00:23:17.034
 that went up.

642
00:23:17.054 --> 00:23:17.334
 And I go,

643
00:23:17.594 --> 00:23:17.934
 yes,

644
00:23:18.514 --> 00:23:19.295
 I believe it.

645
00:23:19.335 --> 00:23:20.836
 Because here's what that's saying.

646
00:23:21.276 --> 00:23:25.518
 Your underlying website is so awful that anything will work.

647
00:23:25.794 --> 00:23:45.551
but if you put an entry pop on a high converting website your conversions go down not up so it's a band-aid not a solution so anyway and those are the worst on noble because they pop up on you you can't find the little damn x or close button to freaking close them to get them out of the way and i just bounce off oh

648
00:23:45.571 --> 00:23:52.738
yeah and that that goes to the other thing i would say is is rotating banners all right frustrating people

649
00:23:53.158 --> 00:23:54.959
 Because we're literally animals.

650
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:55.999
 And we've tested this.

651
00:23:56.539 --> 00:23:58.440
 Rotating banners like on a homepage,

652
00:23:58.840 --> 00:23:59.941
 lower conversion rates,

653
00:24:00.121 --> 00:24:00.241
 8%

654
00:24:00.241 --> 00:24:00.821
 to 12%.

655
00:24:01.361 --> 00:24:01.661
 All right?

656
00:24:01.922 --> 00:24:02.042
 Now,

657
00:24:02.082 --> 00:24:08.684
 that assumes you put up a banner that is value-packed and has got your value state and all that.

658
00:24:09.024 --> 00:24:10.345
 But here's what happens.

659
00:24:10.605 --> 00:24:11.505
 And I'll exaggerate.

660
00:24:11.926 --> 00:24:12.286
 Because

661
00:24:12.746 --> 00:24:14.707
 50,000 years ago,

662
00:24:15.247 --> 00:24:16.988
 our ancestors were cave people.

663
00:24:17.388 --> 00:24:20.029
 And movement was a danger signal.

664
00:24:20.089 --> 00:24:21.289
 And every time something moved,

665
00:24:21.309 --> 00:24:22.150
 I'll exaggerate.

666
00:24:22.150 --> 00:24:22.390
 It's like...

667
00:24:22.610 --> 00:24:22.970
 What's that?

668
00:24:23.731 --> 00:24:24.111
 What's that?

669
00:24:24.451 --> 00:24:24.711
 Right?

670
00:24:24.951 --> 00:24:27.272
 And it stops us from thinking.

671
00:24:27.532 --> 00:24:33.295
 It causes cognitive friction and pop ups and and rotating banners all do the following.

672
00:24:34.155 --> 00:24:36.996
 Imagine that this is the gas tank of patience in your brain.

673
00:24:37.336 --> 00:24:38.057
 And here's fall.

674
00:24:38.677 --> 00:24:41.738
 You don't know that I had a wonderful day and I'm happy and I'm happy.

675
00:24:41.858 --> 00:24:42.559
 You don't know that.

676
00:24:42.999 --> 00:24:45.880
 I might have had a fight with my spouse and my patience is here.

677
00:24:46.140 --> 00:24:48.501
 The dog peed on the rug and my patience is here.

678
00:24:48.941 --> 00:24:49.262
 You know,

679
00:24:50.442 --> 00:24:53.803
 I argued with Kevin about phone numbers and my patience is here.

680
00:24:54.183 --> 00:24:56.204
 You have no idea where I am.

681
00:24:56.524 --> 00:24:58.445
 And every time one of these things happen,

682
00:24:58.505 --> 00:25:00.085
 you're eating up a little more patience.

683
00:25:00.425 --> 00:25:02.486
 So don't do these things that basically,

684
00:25:02.946 --> 00:25:03.827
 what's the technical term?

685
00:25:04.187 --> 00:25:05.227
 Piss people off.

686
00:25:05.427 --> 00:25:05.707
 Okay.

687
00:25:06.848 --> 00:25:07.968
 Rotating banner is bad.

688
00:25:08.288 --> 00:25:09.488
 Make sure there's a phone number.

689
00:25:09.909 --> 00:25:10.169
 You know,

690
00:25:10.289 --> 00:25:11.329
 don't do entry pops.

691
00:25:11.449 --> 00:25:14.030
 Those are three really obvious things.

692
00:25:14.954 --> 00:25:15.634
Can I ask you,

693
00:25:16.074 --> 00:25:21.416
 I was talking to a well-known web marketing guy,

694
00:25:22.196 --> 00:25:23.176
 and he told me,

695
00:25:23.196 --> 00:25:24.597
 this is just about a week or two ago,

696
00:25:25.817 --> 00:25:26.557
 about banners.

697
00:25:27.177 --> 00:25:27.718
 And he says,

698
00:25:28.098 --> 00:25:29.258
 don't sell off the banner.

699
00:25:30.378 --> 00:25:30.798
 He says,

700
00:25:31.038 --> 00:25:33.319
 build up the reputation of the product.

701
00:25:33.919 --> 00:25:34.819
 Let them scroll.

702
00:25:34.919 --> 00:25:35.039
 Now,

703
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:36.800
 this was,

704
00:25:38.500 --> 00:25:40.941
 I've always learned everything's above the fold.

705
00:25:41.041 --> 00:25:42.141
 When people come to the site,

706
00:25:42.201 --> 00:25:43.042
 know what they're buying,

707
00:25:43.362 --> 00:25:44.162
 get them to click.

708
00:25:45.262 --> 00:25:46.183
 Now he's saying,

709
00:25:46.563 --> 00:25:47.744
 so let them scroll down,

710
00:25:47.965 --> 00:25:50.407
 let them know the benefits and the features,

711
00:25:50.907 --> 00:25:52.048
 the social sharing,

712
00:25:52.328 --> 00:25:53.509
 and then the CTR.

713
00:25:54.791 --> 00:25:55.891
 What do you think about that?

714
00:25:57.173 --> 00:25:58.334
I would say he's right.

715
00:25:58.614 --> 00:25:58.914
 Okay.

716
00:25:59.475 --> 00:26:04.219
 And so the way we frame that is we tell people that when somebody lands on a website,

717
00:26:04.719 --> 00:26:06.241
 they ask themselves three questions.

718
00:26:06.561 --> 00:26:07.642
 Am I in the right place?

719
00:26:08.274 --> 00:26:09.695
 How do I feel about this site?

720
00:26:09.795 --> 00:26:11.016
 And what am I supposed to do here?

721
00:26:11.437 --> 00:26:14.859
 And I need to be able to answer those three questions before I scroll.

722
00:26:14.939 --> 00:26:16.981
 So am I in the right place?

723
00:26:17.421 --> 00:26:17.622
 Well,

724
00:26:17.922 --> 00:26:20.184
 that is highly dependent upon the upstream messaging.

725
00:26:20.544 --> 00:26:24.067
 But a real simple tip is if on a desktop,

726
00:26:24.067 --> 00:26:24.527
 for example,

727
00:26:24.527 --> 00:26:25.448
 if you've got your logo,

728
00:26:25.908 --> 00:26:28.070
 let's say it's on the left hand side,

729
00:26:28.370 --> 00:26:29.431
 or maybe it's a fast site,

730
00:26:29.431 --> 00:26:30.071
 so it's a middle,

731
00:26:30.412 --> 00:26:32.854
 but right underneath your your logo.

732
00:26:33.394 --> 00:26:36.016
 have three to six to 10 words to say what you do.

733
00:26:36.236 --> 00:26:38.358
 So for us underneath our logo site tuners,

734
00:26:38.618 --> 00:26:40.380
 it says conversion rate optimization.

735
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:40.560
 Now,

736
00:26:40.620 --> 00:26:41.481
 why do we do that?

737
00:26:41.961 --> 00:26:43.502
 From an SEO perspective,

738
00:26:43.742 --> 00:26:46.204
 I have no control over what page somebody lands on.

739
00:26:46.565 --> 00:26:50.008
 So if they land on a blog page or some other page,

740
00:26:50.308 --> 00:26:52.089
 at least it ties in from our logo,

741
00:26:52.229 --> 00:26:55.972
 conversion rate optimization and helps frame the entire website.

742
00:26:58.014 --> 00:27:01.537
 Putting those three to six to 10 words right up on the top is great.

743
00:27:02.318 --> 00:27:02.638
 Then,

744
00:27:02.918 --> 00:27:22.747
 in the banner the banner is where your unique value proposition goes why should i buy from you why do i care about you what do you do that that matters to me okay so that goes into am i you know how do i feel about this so am i in the right place we've already done that how do i feel about something you know what you do and

745
00:27:22.767 --> 00:27:28.470
 you're giving me a value proposition and hopefully you got a phone number so i'm feeling good you've got some some um

746
00:27:29.610 --> 00:27:33.453
 Some social icons or trust statements or something there.

747
00:27:33.693 --> 00:27:34.594
 So I feel really good.

748
00:27:34.894 --> 00:27:36.455
 And then it should be a call to action.

749
00:27:36.455 --> 00:27:37.756
 And the call to action could be,

750
00:27:38.297 --> 00:27:38.557
 you know,

751
00:27:38.757 --> 00:27:43.981
 learn more or shop category or depends on what they are.

752
00:27:44.041 --> 00:27:45.462
 I'll give you an example.

753
00:27:45.762 --> 00:27:47.563
 We get these clients that come to us.

754
00:27:47.603 --> 00:27:48.884
 They're in the SaaS world.

755
00:27:49.405 --> 00:27:50.365
 And their websites say,

756
00:27:50.666 --> 00:27:51.546
 get a demo.

757
00:27:53.848 --> 00:27:55.589
 And I just find out what you do first.

758
00:27:55.810 --> 00:27:56.050
 Okay.

759
00:27:56.610 --> 00:27:57.491
 So instead of,

760
00:27:57.551 --> 00:27:57.811
 you know,

761
00:27:57.851 --> 00:27:59.192
 and if you need to get a demo,

762
00:27:59.932 --> 00:28:02.874
 and let's say I'm selling security software,

763
00:28:03.255 --> 00:28:03.555
 you know,

764
00:28:04.055 --> 00:28:09.379
 why didn't I say get a demo or speak with a security software expert?

765
00:28:10.459 --> 00:28:10.580
 Well,

766
00:28:10.580 --> 00:28:11.560
 that's not threatening,

767
00:28:12.161 --> 00:28:12.441
 you know,

768
00:28:12.741 --> 00:28:14.602
 and I'd probably make that the primary call.

769
00:28:15.063 --> 00:28:18.725
 So if you can answer those three questions before I scroll,

770
00:28:18.765 --> 00:28:20.266
 and the same thing is true on mobile,

771
00:28:21.527 --> 00:28:22.387
 you are way,

772
00:28:22.528 --> 00:28:23.268
 way ahead of the game.

773
00:28:23.348 --> 00:28:23.648
 And again,

774
00:28:23.708 --> 00:28:24.429
 we've tested this,

775
00:28:24.529 --> 00:28:24.969
 you know,

776
00:28:24.989 --> 00:28:25.850
 I can't tell you how many times.

777
00:28:26.170 --> 00:28:27.731
 And so whoever you are talking to,

778
00:28:28.192 --> 00:28:28.972
 he is right on.

779
00:28:29.012 --> 00:28:30.553
 He or she actually is right on.

780
00:28:32.095 --> 00:28:32.575
Very good.

781
00:28:32.835 --> 00:28:33.696
 What about pricing?

782
00:28:34.116 --> 00:28:36.418
 That's another frustrating point for me when I want to,

783
00:28:36.758 --> 00:28:37.859
 something's caught my eye.

784
00:28:38.320 --> 00:28:39.340
 You've got my attention.

785
00:28:39.921 --> 00:28:42.943
 I go to pricing and it says,

786
00:28:43.844 --> 00:28:44.905
 click here for a quote.

787
00:28:45.525 --> 00:28:46.866
Yeah.

788
00:28:46.866 --> 00:28:47.607
Or something like that.

789
00:28:47.727 --> 00:28:49.048
 I don't put it at all.

790
00:28:49.328 --> 00:28:50.389
 That's frustrating to me too.

791
00:28:51.426 --> 00:28:51.626
Right.

792
00:28:52.527 --> 00:28:56.710
 This would be like we're on your show right now,

793
00:28:56.890 --> 00:28:57.190
 okay?

794
00:28:57.891 --> 00:29:03.415
 And how would you feel if I just wasn't in the camera and I was hiding here talking to you,

795
00:29:03.735 --> 00:29:03.936
 right,

796
00:29:03.976 --> 00:29:04.756
 the whole time?

797
00:29:05.237 --> 00:29:05.817
 You'd probably go,

798
00:29:05.917 --> 00:29:06.838
 what is he hiding?

799
00:29:07.138 --> 00:29:09.740
 Is he an ugly looking guy or what's going on with him?

800
00:29:10.100 --> 00:29:11.381
 You don't hide stuff.

801
00:29:11.501 --> 00:29:11.801
 I mean,

802
00:29:11.882 --> 00:29:12.322
 come on.

803
00:29:12.782 --> 00:29:15.384
 So if you have to hide your pricing,

804
00:29:15.404 --> 00:29:17.526
 then you're not putting your value proposition there.

805
00:29:17.926 --> 00:29:21.728
 So we always tell people to display their pricing.

806
00:29:21.888 --> 00:29:22.088
 Now,

807
00:29:22.569 --> 00:29:23.849
 having said that,

808
00:29:24.029 --> 00:29:24.329
 okay,

809
00:29:24.870 --> 00:29:28.071
 you don't have to display every single plan you've got and all the rest of it.

810
00:29:28.432 --> 00:29:31.053
 You just got to give people a little bit of the pricing,

811
00:29:31.213 --> 00:29:31.573
 all right?

812
00:29:31.974 --> 00:29:34.995
 You don't have to go with it because if you've got complicated pricing structures,

813
00:29:35.255 --> 00:29:37.517
 are you really going to explain it on your website?

814
00:29:38.137 --> 00:29:38.757
 Probably not.

815
00:29:39.297 --> 00:29:42.519
 But you give them something planned starting at this,

816
00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:43.100
 you know,

817
00:29:44.780 --> 00:29:46.461
 enterprise plan starting at that.

818
00:29:46.521 --> 00:29:47.522
 It includes whatever.

819
00:29:48.674 --> 00:29:48.814
 Yeah,

820
00:29:49.474 --> 00:29:50.635
 we need to display pricing.

821
00:29:50.675 --> 00:29:50.855
 Now,

822
00:29:50.935 --> 00:29:53.395
 if you've got different plans,

823
00:29:56.056 --> 00:30:01.317
 there is a way to increase your conversions and your average order value and upsell people.

824
00:30:01.678 --> 00:30:02.918
 And that is called anchoring.

825
00:30:03.018 --> 00:30:05.799
 So you put the most expensive thing first,

826
00:30:05.919 --> 00:30:06.619
 less expensive,

827
00:30:06.619 --> 00:30:07.239
 and so on,

828
00:30:07.719 --> 00:30:10.300
 because that invokes the fear of missing out.

829
00:30:10.580 --> 00:30:12.981
 Because people will look at whatever the big number is,

830
00:30:13.521 --> 00:30:14.301
 and then they don't go,

831
00:30:14.981 --> 00:30:15.261
 you know,

832
00:30:15.501 --> 00:30:15.801
 all right,

833
00:30:16.682 --> 00:30:17.702
 what's this next price?

834
00:30:17.722 --> 00:30:17.982
 They go.

835
00:30:18.462 --> 00:30:19.603
 what am I missing out on?

836
00:30:19.623 --> 00:30:21.164
 What am I losing if I go down,

837
00:30:21.384 --> 00:30:21.604
 right?

838
00:30:22.064 --> 00:30:24.466
 If you go cheaper price to higher price,

839
00:30:24.466 --> 00:30:24.706
 they go,

840
00:30:25.206 --> 00:30:25.326
 oh,

841
00:30:25.446 --> 00:30:26.507
 that's more expensive.

842
00:30:26.507 --> 00:30:27.407
 I'm not comfortable.

843
00:30:27.767 --> 00:30:29.368
 People don't want to miss out on things.

844
00:30:29.368 --> 00:30:30.509
 So it's just psychology.

845
00:30:31.950 --> 00:30:35.032
What about when it comes to lead capture?

846
00:30:35.032 --> 00:30:40.635
 There's people that say the conversion rate goes way up if you have a two-part lead capture.

847
00:30:40.635 --> 00:30:43.737
 So the first one is just ask for the email address and that's it.

848
00:30:44.237 --> 00:30:45.558
 Make it super easy and then they hit.

849
00:30:46.486 --> 00:30:46.887
 step two,

850
00:30:46.907 --> 00:30:48.148
 it's like a two-step process.

851
00:30:48.148 --> 00:30:52.332
 And then step two is where you actually get their full address and their phone number and whatever else.

852
00:30:52.332 --> 00:30:59.598
 Do you see that that changes conversion rate by actually having a two-step on the lead capture versus a one-step?

853
00:31:00.459 --> 00:31:01.740
So it all depends.

854
00:31:02.020 --> 00:31:02.280
 Okay.

855
00:31:02.761 --> 00:31:04.362
 So this goes back.

856
00:31:04.462 --> 00:31:04.883
 So a lot,

857
00:31:04.943 --> 00:31:07.485
 and this is the conversations I have so often with clients too.

858
00:31:07.885 --> 00:31:08.466
 It depends.

859
00:31:08.846 --> 00:31:10.328
 Sometimes all in one is better.

860
00:31:10.428 --> 00:31:11.689
 Sometimes the flow is better.

861
00:31:12.149 --> 00:31:12.770
 It depends.

862
00:31:13.234 --> 00:31:33.188
 but you what you want to do is tell people what it is they're getting all right and what what the process is because if you surprise people and i put in the email address and then i go to the page that i didn't expect and there's all of these things you know and i i joke about this you know these forms people fill out for legion you know name

863
00:31:33.428 --> 00:31:41.294
 phone number address company name um uh what did you have for lunch did it make your tummy sit you know i mean it's like

864
00:31:41.654 --> 00:31:43.395
 Where do you stop with this?

865
00:31:43.475 --> 00:31:43.775
 All right.

866
00:31:44.315 --> 00:31:44.555
 You know,

867
00:31:44.975 --> 00:31:47.036
 it's just too much.

868
00:31:47.556 --> 00:31:48.556
 So instead,

869
00:31:48.676 --> 00:31:53.017
 tell people that you're going to be asking these types of questions and tell them why.

870
00:31:53.477 --> 00:31:54.998
 In order to provide a quote for you,

871
00:31:54.998 --> 00:31:56.798
 in order to better answer your questions,

872
00:31:57.098 --> 00:31:57.398
 you know,

873
00:31:57.899 --> 00:32:00.759
 your input will guide who you speak with,

874
00:32:00.859 --> 00:32:01.119
 right?

875
00:32:01.580 --> 00:32:02.400
 Whatever it is,

876
00:32:02.540 --> 00:32:04.680
 tell me and I'm going to feel better about it.

877
00:32:05.161 --> 00:32:06.041
 But unfortunately,

878
00:32:06.161 --> 00:32:06.521
 Kevin,

879
00:32:07.181 --> 00:32:10.002
 you have to test it and not one size fits all.

880
00:32:10.442 --> 00:32:12.663
 And that's kind of where CRO also comes in,

881
00:32:12.984 --> 00:32:15.125
 is testing to find the right combination.

882
00:32:15.585 --> 00:32:15.865
 Right.

883
00:32:15.865 --> 00:32:18.086
A lot of people don't want to give out their real phone number.

884
00:32:18.587 --> 00:32:19.407
 So to encourage,

885
00:32:19.447 --> 00:32:21.168
 I think it's Perry Belcher that actually said this,

886
00:32:21.168 --> 00:32:24.710
 to encourage people to give out their real phone number so that you can SMS them or whatever.

887
00:32:25.191 --> 00:32:26.771
 As you actually put exactly what you just said,

888
00:32:26.852 --> 00:32:27.512
 given the reason,

889
00:32:27.572 --> 00:32:27.892
 people are like,

890
00:32:27.892 --> 00:32:28.693
 why do they need my phone number?

891
00:32:28.693 --> 00:32:30.073
 You're just going to call me and try to sell me something.

892
00:32:30.474 --> 00:32:35.296
 He said he switches it to say for order confirmation or for tracking numbers.

893
00:32:35.837 --> 00:32:37.818
 We'll text your tracking number to you.

894
00:32:38.246 --> 00:32:53.970
 or something and people are like oh yeah sure i'm gonna absolutely give you my real phone number uh right here yeah absolutely i agree conversion rates go way up on that yeah i agreed i mean because otherwise if you've got a phone number email and uh and an address so

895
00:32:53.970 --> 00:33:07.154
what are you gonna do you're gonna call me and say hey did you get that email and then you're gonna come to my door and knock on the door say i just want to make sure you read the email okay i mean why do you need all that give me a reason right make me feel good make me feel loved

896
00:33:07.354 --> 00:33:08.435
 and I'll give you what you need.

897
00:33:12.498 --> 00:33:12.638
Now,

898
00:33:12.638 --> 00:33:14.120
 a quick word from our sponsor,

899
00:33:14.320 --> 00:33:14.860
 LaVonta.

900
00:33:15.261 --> 00:33:15.381
 Hey,

901
00:33:15.441 --> 00:33:15.761
 Kevin,

902
00:33:16.081 --> 00:33:17.162
 tell us a little bit about it.

903
00:33:17.743 --> 00:33:18.203
That's right,

904
00:33:18.263 --> 00:33:19.044
 Amazon sellers.

905
00:33:19.144 --> 00:33:22.827
 Do you want to skyrocket your sales and boost your organic rankings?

906
00:33:23.427 --> 00:33:24.248
 Meet LaVonta,

907
00:33:24.628 --> 00:33:31.594
 Norm and I's secret weapon for driving high quality external traffic straight to our Amazon storefronts using affiliate marketing.

908
00:33:31.934 --> 00:33:32.334
 That's right.

909
00:33:32.354 --> 00:33:36.618
 It's achieved through direct partnerships with leading media outlets like CNN.

910
00:33:37.070 --> 00:33:37.651
 Wirecutter,

911
00:33:37.871 --> 00:33:38.572
 and BuzzFeed,

912
00:33:38.652 --> 00:33:39.332
 just to name a few,

913
00:33:39.673 --> 00:33:41.194
 as well as top affiliates,

914
00:33:41.415 --> 00:33:42.055
 influencers,

915
00:33:42.135 --> 00:33:42.616
 bloggers,

916
00:33:42.936 --> 00:33:43.817
 and media buyers,

917
00:33:44.338 --> 00:33:46.480
 all in Levante's marketplace,

918
00:33:46.820 --> 00:33:50.484
 which is home to over 5,000 different creators that you get to choose from.

919
00:33:51.388 --> 00:33:53.489
So are you ready to elevate your business?

920
00:33:54.129 --> 00:33:57.831
 Visit get.levanta.io slash misfits.

921
00:33:58.371 --> 00:34:00.292
 That's get.levanta,

922
00:34:00.832 --> 00:34:08.676
 L-E-V-A-N-T-A dot I-O slash misfits and book a call and you'll get up to 20%

923
00:34:09.316 --> 00:34:11.337
 off Levanta's gold plan today.

924
00:34:12.058 --> 00:34:16.620
 That's get.levanta.io slash misfits.

925
00:34:20.664 --> 00:34:21.445
So what is,

926
00:34:23.586 --> 00:34:24.827
 there's something that you've talked about,

927
00:34:24.827 --> 00:34:28.230
 I've heard you talk about in the past called greedy marketing syndrome.

928
00:34:29.751 --> 00:34:30.271
 What is that?

929
00:34:30.291 --> 00:34:31.532
 Can you explain that to the audience?

930
00:34:31.952 --> 00:34:32.072
Yeah,

931
00:34:32.132 --> 00:34:32.272
 well,

932
00:34:32.352 --> 00:34:32.673
 actually,

933
00:34:34.314 --> 00:34:35.995
 you guys semi-defined it.

934
00:34:36.095 --> 00:34:38.937
 It's the bottom of the funnel where it's buy now,

935
00:34:39.057 --> 00:34:39.618
 do this.

936
00:34:39.778 --> 00:34:40.038
 You know,

937
00:34:40.799 --> 00:34:43.300
 it's the opera school of marketing where it's like,

938
00:34:43.861 --> 00:34:43.981
 me,

939
00:34:44.081 --> 00:34:44.201
 me,

940
00:34:44.221 --> 00:34:44.341
 me,

941
00:34:44.381 --> 00:34:44.501
 me,

942
00:34:44.681 --> 00:34:46.943
 it's all about me and I don't care about you.

943
00:34:47.343 --> 00:34:47.463
 Yeah,

944
00:34:47.523 --> 00:34:48.004
 don't do that.

945
00:34:48.524 --> 00:34:49.144
 Instead,

946
00:34:49.264 --> 00:34:54.826
 what you want to do is get people at different levels of the funnel,

947
00:34:54.866 --> 00:34:55.306
 the top,

948
00:34:55.386 --> 00:34:55.746
 the middle,

949
00:34:55.766 --> 00:34:56.366
 and the bottom.

950
00:34:56.666 --> 00:35:06.909
 Because if you only focus on the bottom of the funnel and you're trying to push people through any kind of CRO or psychology tactics,

951
00:35:07.269 --> 00:35:10.390
 what you're doing is you're turning off the 98%

952
00:35:10.390 --> 00:35:13.531
 of the website visitors who aren't ready to buy.

953
00:35:13.891 --> 00:35:15.652
 And so greedy marketer syndrome.

954
00:35:16.012 --> 00:35:31.941
 is where you focus completely on the bottom you focus completely on what it is you want without caring about your visitor in any way shape or form and that's greedy marketer syndrome um i think it's a um i think it's a character floor actually so

955
00:35:32.742 --> 00:35:43.208
 yeah and when when i if i may what i was going norm why did you invite this guy okay no not at all this is great

956
00:35:44.500 --> 00:35:52.408
And one of the things that I had mentioned earlier is starting that customer journey with trying to convert right off of the top.

957
00:35:53.088 --> 00:35:58.674
 So are you finding that that's more and more coming to be the norm?

958
00:35:59.354 --> 00:36:00.095
 No pun intended.

959
00:36:01.776 --> 00:36:01.897
So

960
00:36:02.677 --> 00:36:04.399
 I'm going to go back to my favorite answer.

961
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:05.260
 It depends.

962
00:36:05.784 --> 00:36:08.925
 It depends on what it is you're offering.

963
00:36:09.366 --> 00:36:11.526
 Is it straightforward and obvious,

964
00:36:12.207 --> 00:36:17.049
 or is it something that is going to take a lot more understanding?

965
00:36:17.469 --> 00:36:18.669
 So if I'm selling,

966
00:36:19.950 --> 00:36:20.190
 let's say,

967
00:36:20.190 --> 00:36:24.912
 a SaaS product that's got peer-to-peer and endpoint technologies,

968
00:36:25.152 --> 00:36:26.272
 security solutions,

969
00:36:26.512 --> 00:36:27.753
 I probably have to explain it,

970
00:36:27.833 --> 00:36:30.594
 even though my audience might understand it,

971
00:36:31.074 --> 00:36:34.056
 versus would you like a quote for your homeowner's insurance?

972
00:36:34.496 --> 00:36:34.736
 Okay.

973
00:36:35.532 --> 00:36:36.673
 Everybody understands,

974
00:36:36.713 --> 00:36:38.955
 would you like a quote for your homeowner's insurance,

975
00:36:39.115 --> 00:36:39.395
 all right,

976
00:36:39.776 --> 00:36:40.576
 for the most part.

977
00:36:40.977 --> 00:36:43.439
 Not everyone understands the more complicated stuff.

978
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:47.282
 And even in the really complicated websites,

979
00:36:47.342 --> 00:36:47.803
 whether it's,

980
00:36:48.884 --> 00:36:49.144
 you know,

981
00:36:49.324 --> 00:36:53.067
 SAS or finance or,

982
00:36:53.507 --> 00:36:53.788
 you know,

983
00:36:55.029 --> 00:36:56.170
 pick something complicated,

984
00:36:56.350 --> 00:36:56.810
 medical,

985
00:36:57.991 --> 00:37:00.774
 there's different people with different levels of knowledge.

986
00:37:00.794 --> 00:37:03.156
 You can't assume that everybody understands.

987
00:37:03.536 --> 00:37:07.077
 So you have to have different entry points for the different types of people.

988
00:37:07.517 --> 00:37:08.457
 So if I'm selling,

989
00:37:08.897 --> 00:37:09.138
 you know,

990
00:37:09.178 --> 00:37:10.318
 for the sake of argument,

991
00:37:10.518 --> 00:37:12.999
 I'll go back to that SaaS product for a second.

992
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:17.340
 I might have technical people from in the IT department,

993
00:37:17.580 --> 00:37:22.521
 but I also might have a procurement manager looking at this who's not going to have a clue what I'm looking at.

994
00:37:22.801 --> 00:37:26.962
 Or I might have a lawyer who's looking at our contract and then trying to figure it out.

995
00:37:27.242 --> 00:37:31.084
 They all have different needs and you need to address the needs of the various visitors.

996
00:37:31.844 --> 00:37:32.224
 And so

997
00:37:32.884 --> 00:37:35.845
 Depending upon how complicated what you do is,

998
00:37:36.345 --> 00:37:40.686
 you can ask either up front or you can guide them down a path that makes sense for them.

999
00:37:42.207 --> 00:37:44.007
So that's understanding your audience.

1000
00:37:44.507 --> 00:37:45.288
 But what happens,

1001
00:37:45.648 --> 00:37:51.850
 you were just describing like a technician to somebody that just might be getting some beginner knowledge.

1002
00:37:52.490 --> 00:38:00.052
 So how can you create a funnel that nails?

1003
00:38:00.744 --> 00:38:21.953
those different people so it like for the beginner it's not too complicated for the technician he goes ah this is for beginners uh i mean it's really a fine line isn't it yeah so it's the goldilocks theory so basically what you do is is you know some people like a hard bed some people like the soft bed someone's like just in the middle so

1004
00:38:22.154 --> 00:38:27.216
 on the on the website you have paths it's almost like signposts it basically say

1005
00:38:27.616 --> 00:38:44.646
 you know for you know for it management go here for accounting services go here for and then they go oh they're talking to me okay and then they go to a page that actually explains in more detail in the language that they are interested in what it is you do now

1006
00:38:44.806 --> 00:38:54.232
 here's where we really get to advanced cro techniques and this will have a lot of people starting to feel ill

1007
00:38:54.932 --> 00:38:57.494
 Because nobody wants to do what I'm going to recommend.

1008
00:38:57.934 --> 00:38:58.234
 All right.

1009
00:38:58.734 --> 00:39:02.917
 And that is whatever your downloadable asset is,

1010
00:39:03.177 --> 00:39:05.238
 whether it's a really informative video,

1011
00:39:05.478 --> 00:39:07.359
 a white paper or whatever it is,

1012
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:09.080
 do not gate it.

1013
00:39:09.301 --> 00:39:11.422
 Just let the person download it,

1014
00:39:11.622 --> 00:39:12.002
 read it,

1015
00:39:12.202 --> 00:39:13.203
 watch it and so on.

1016
00:39:13.643 --> 00:39:15.344
 And every marketer in the planet will go,

1017
00:39:15.384 --> 00:39:17.926
 but how do we generate our leads if we do that?

1018
00:39:18.366 --> 00:39:21.828
 And the answer is you generate higher quality leads.

1019
00:39:22.068 --> 00:39:41.154
 because people will give you the real phone number and the real email address if instead you give them something of value it's invoking the principle of reciprocity i give you something you now trust me and in that asset whatever it is it then says for more information on xyz go

1020
00:39:41.354 --> 00:39:49.256
 here all right so you've got a couple calls to action and the downloadable are on the web page i trust you now it takes me to another page and it says

1021
00:39:49.956 --> 00:39:50.516
 Norm,

1022
00:39:50.516 --> 00:39:50.897
 or it says,

1023
00:39:51.197 --> 00:39:52.157
 because it doesn't know you yet,

1024
00:39:52.738 --> 00:39:54.139
 if you tell us a little bit about us,

1025
00:39:54.139 --> 00:39:57.280
 we can customize exactly what we can send you.

1026
00:39:58.121 --> 00:40:00.422
 If you can give us your name and an email,

1027
00:40:00.482 --> 00:40:02.363
 we'll send you either this,

1028
00:40:02.464 --> 00:40:02.644
 this,

1029
00:40:02.684 --> 00:40:03.064
 and this.

1030
00:40:03.564 --> 00:40:05.886
 Which one or more of these would you like?

1031
00:40:06.966 --> 00:40:07.306
 All right?

1032
00:40:07.927 --> 00:40:08.767
 Now what's happened?

1033
00:40:09.228 --> 00:40:10.288
 You've gotten their name,

1034
00:40:10.748 --> 00:40:11.809
 you've gotten their email,

1035
00:40:12.149 --> 00:40:16.432
 and they've already started telling you a little bit about what they're interested because they've picked something.

1036
00:40:16.932 --> 00:40:19.373
 Now they're in your drip marketing campaign.

1037
00:40:19.494 --> 00:40:20.334
 We're still not,

1038
00:40:20.654 --> 00:40:22.755
 this is not a sales qualified lead yet.

1039
00:40:22.795 --> 00:40:24.356
 This is a marketing qualified lead.

1040
00:40:24.677 --> 00:40:24.937
 All right.

1041
00:40:25.077 --> 00:40:25.957
 So what are we doing?

1042
00:40:26.398 --> 00:40:29.479
 We're now sending them something because we now know norm is norm.

1043
00:40:29.479 --> 00:40:29.779
 And we go,

1044
00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:30.260
 norm,

1045
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:31.420
 you know,

1046
00:40:31.420 --> 00:40:32.961
 you downloaded this and this,

1047
00:40:33.141 --> 00:40:33.442
 you know,

1048
00:40:34.422 --> 00:40:37.824
 it turns out that a number of our clients really like this,

1049
00:40:37.904 --> 00:40:38.104
 this,

1050
00:40:38.144 --> 00:40:38.925
 and this also.

1051
00:40:39.085 --> 00:40:39.925
 If you're interested,

1052
00:40:39.965 --> 00:40:40.506
 go here.

1053
00:40:40.726 --> 00:40:41.046
 Okay.

1054
00:40:41.426 --> 00:40:42.347
 And it goes back there.

1055
00:40:42.387 --> 00:40:44.268
 And now we ask them a couple other questions.

1056
00:40:44.528 --> 00:40:44.888
 And we say,

1057
00:40:44.928 --> 00:40:45.408
 so Norm,

1058
00:40:45.528 --> 00:40:46.149
 in your business,

1059
00:40:46.169 --> 00:40:46.649
 do you have,

1060
00:40:46.969 --> 00:40:47.209
 you know,

1061
00:40:47.209 --> 00:40:48.270
 for this kind of product,

1062
00:40:48.270 --> 00:40:50.711
 do you have 10 or more people or 15 people?

1063
00:40:51.051 --> 00:40:51.291
 You know,

1064
00:40:51.291 --> 00:40:52.071
 do you do this?

1065
00:40:52.091 --> 00:40:52.752
 Do you do that?

1066
00:40:53.112 --> 00:40:55.193
 And that's called progressive disclosure.

1067
00:40:55.433 --> 00:40:55.753
 Okay.

1068
00:40:56.193 --> 00:40:57.974
 Because every time I'm giving you something,

1069
00:40:58.014 --> 00:41:03.957
 I'm going to tell you a little bit more about myself because it's all part of a normal conversation with somebody.

1070
00:41:04.357 --> 00:41:04.597
 Right.

1071
00:41:05.257 --> 00:41:09.159
 And so what happens is in the next thing you're going,

1072
00:41:09.419 --> 00:41:11.380
 you now know even more about them.

1073
00:41:11.860 --> 00:41:13.061
 And you offer them more things,

1074
00:41:13.081 --> 00:41:15.522
 but you also offer for them to speak with,

1075
00:41:15.642 --> 00:41:16.202
 buy now.

1076
00:41:16.482 --> 00:41:18.803
 You can give them something that jumps the funnel,

1077
00:41:19.143 --> 00:41:19.403
 right?

1078
00:41:19.963 --> 00:41:20.944
 But if they're not,

1079
00:41:21.404 --> 00:41:26.126
 you've got this drip marketing campaign to the point when they're finally at the end of it.

1080
00:41:26.486 --> 00:41:27.887
 And every industry is different.

1081
00:41:27.947 --> 00:41:29.707
 But when they're finally at the end of it,

1082
00:41:30.148 --> 00:41:30.448
 they'll go,

1083
00:41:30.808 --> 00:41:35.290
 I've been talking to marketing misfits now for six months.

1084
00:41:35.390 --> 00:41:37.771
 I absolutely need these guys on my team.

1085
00:41:38.011 --> 00:41:38.551
 You know what?

1086
00:41:38.991 --> 00:41:40.132
 I'm just going to sign up with them.

1087
00:41:40.132 --> 00:41:40.972
 Or I'm going to make an appointment.

1088
00:41:41.100 --> 00:42:01.045
 appointment with them because they trust you now you always let them jump the funnel but by doing this and providing value and providing progressive disclosure your conversion rate goes way up the number of non-qualified leads goes way down okay and

1089
00:42:01.045 --> 00:42:10.448
you wind up with more revenue we've done this over and over again that's a great point what about colors and stuff on a site on on these

1090
00:42:11.456 --> 00:42:12.957
 buttons and forms that you're talking about,

1091
00:42:13.257 --> 00:42:15.278
 does it matter or does the wording matter?

1092
00:42:15.318 --> 00:42:15.578
 Does it,

1093
00:42:15.618 --> 00:42:16.139
 do you need to,

1094
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:16.479
 you know,

1095
00:42:16.479 --> 00:42:17.039
 in the old days,

1096
00:42:17.059 --> 00:42:17.620
 it made sure,

1097
00:42:18.260 --> 00:42:18.420
 like,

1098
00:42:18.440 --> 00:42:20.341
 make sure every hyperlink's always in blue,

1099
00:42:20.461 --> 00:42:21.322
 not in another color,

1100
00:42:21.782 --> 00:42:26.565
 or make sure that the buttons that they're pushing are yellow or orange,

1101
00:42:26.925 --> 00:42:31.327
 because if they're red means stop and blue means go or whatever.

1102
00:42:31.988 --> 00:42:32.908
 Is there anything that,

1103
00:42:33.289 --> 00:42:33.709
 like that,

1104
00:42:33.729 --> 00:42:38.151
 that matters that you're seeing when you're helping people at SiteTuners optimize?

1105
00:42:38.752 --> 00:42:38.892
Yeah,

1106
00:42:38.972 --> 00:42:39.092
 so...

1107
00:42:39.512 --> 00:42:41.614
 contrast matters more than the color.

1108
00:42:41.734 --> 00:42:43.295
 It needs to pop off the page.

1109
00:42:43.355 --> 00:42:44.436
 So green,

1110
00:42:44.556 --> 00:42:44.776
 blue,

1111
00:42:44.976 --> 00:42:45.257
 red,

1112
00:42:45.357 --> 00:42:45.637
 yellow,

1113
00:42:45.737 --> 00:42:45.917
 pink,

1114
00:42:45.957 --> 00:42:47.078
 whatever the right color is,

1115
00:42:47.158 --> 00:42:47.378
 right?

1116
00:42:48.039 --> 00:42:49.280
 And that's based on their palette.

1117
00:42:50.340 --> 00:42:51.301
 And so just to say,

1118
00:42:51.561 --> 00:42:52.642
 orange is the color.

1119
00:42:53.403 --> 00:42:53.523
 No.

1120
00:42:53.983 --> 00:42:54.223
 Okay.

1121
00:42:55.244 --> 00:42:56.125
 Contrast matters,

1122
00:42:56.225 --> 00:42:57.606
 but words matter also.

1123
00:42:57.766 --> 00:42:58.587
 So for example,

1124
00:42:59.667 --> 00:43:01.769
 How many times have you seen a button where it says submit,

1125
00:43:02.229 --> 00:43:02.450
 right?

1126
00:43:03.390 --> 00:43:03.510
 Yeah.

1127
00:43:03.510 --> 00:43:03.631
 Well,

1128
00:43:04.111 --> 00:43:04.912
 submit's a bad word.

1129
00:43:04.932 --> 00:43:05.592
 We've tested it.

1130
00:43:05.612 --> 00:43:07.253
 99 times out of 100,

1131
00:43:07.394 --> 00:43:10.997
 it fails compared to please send me my quote,

1132
00:43:11.077 --> 00:43:13.038
 please schedule an appointment,

1133
00:43:13.078 --> 00:43:13.899
 please whatever,

1134
00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:16.301
 which is more benefit-oriented,

1135
00:43:16.661 --> 00:43:17.442
 action-oriented.

1136
00:43:17.802 --> 00:43:23.247
 The only time submit works is if your visitors or fans of the book Fifty Shades of Grey,

1137
00:43:23.787 --> 00:43:24.568
 but other than that,

1138
00:43:24.728 --> 00:43:26.129
 nobody likes the word submit.

1139
00:43:26.809 --> 00:43:27.030
 Okay?

1140
00:43:27.110 --> 00:43:28.531
 It's a bad freaking word.

1141
00:43:29.863 --> 00:43:30.183
 What?

1142
00:43:30.183 --> 00:43:31.024
 You're laughing at me.

1143
00:43:31.024 --> 00:43:31.564
 I'm dead serious,

1144
00:43:31.624 --> 00:43:32.084
guys.

1145
00:43:32.084 --> 00:43:32.124
 No,

1146
00:43:32.124 --> 00:43:32.244
 no,

1147
00:43:32.304 --> 00:43:33.865
 it's dead serious when you think about it.

1148
00:43:33.885 --> 00:43:34.265
 It is.

1149
00:43:35.125 --> 00:43:35.245
Yeah,

1150
00:43:35.285 --> 00:43:37.126
 Kevin hits the submit button quite a bit.

1151
00:43:38.707 --> 00:43:40.188
That's my favorite.

1152
00:43:40.188 --> 00:43:40.388
Yeah,

1153
00:43:40.388 --> 00:43:41.468
that makes me more nervous.

1154
00:43:44.389 --> 00:43:44.509
 No,

1155
00:43:44.509 --> 00:43:45.330
 I used to do that.

1156
00:43:45.950 --> 00:43:46.330
 In fact,

1157
00:43:46.390 --> 00:43:47.751
 my background is direct marketing.

1158
00:43:47.791 --> 00:43:48.951
 Before this whole Internet thing,

1159
00:43:48.991 --> 00:43:50.472
 I was selling through direct mail,

1160
00:43:50.532 --> 00:43:52.833
 and I used to do that on all my order forms.

1161
00:43:52.873 --> 00:43:53.713
 If I was selling,

1162
00:43:53.753 --> 00:43:54.093
 I don't know,

1163
00:43:54.093 --> 00:43:57.415
 I was selling a kitchen gadget.

1164
00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:03.202
 It would on the older form and actually had a little box like one of those zap dingbats You know,

1165
00:44:03.182 --> 00:44:08.445
 you can make the little that font you can make the little box and so they could check it and it says Please send me my

1166
00:44:09.705 --> 00:44:17.630
 XYZ kitchen gadget and then below that would be all the it's reconfirming the sale and it's reconfirming It's almost the submit button.

1167
00:44:18.130 --> 00:44:18.270
 Yeah,

1168
00:44:18.290 --> 00:44:20.291
 it's not it's not necessary at all.

1169
00:44:20.351 --> 00:44:27.335
 They can just put in their name and address Here's where I ship it to and here's fill out the the shipping and tax or whatever and send off the check of money order but

1170
00:44:27.723 --> 00:44:28.603
 by putting that there,

1171
00:44:28.623 --> 00:44:29.764
 an increased conversion rate.

1172
00:44:30.204 --> 00:44:30.324
Yeah,

1173
00:44:30.324 --> 00:44:30.724
 of course.

1174
00:44:31.324 --> 00:44:33.004
 The tactics may have changed,

1175
00:44:33.104 --> 00:44:35.765
 a piece of mail versus a forum or a website,

1176
00:44:36.105 --> 00:44:39.766
 but the strategies behind that are still the same.

1177
00:44:40.066 --> 00:44:42.507
 Strategies don't necessarily change.

1178
00:44:42.547 --> 00:44:45.688
 Strategies are how you think about your business,

1179
00:44:45.748 --> 00:44:47.468
 how you think about your clients.

1180
00:44:47.809 --> 00:44:48.609
 Your tactics,

1181
00:44:49.009 --> 00:44:49.329
 you know,

1182
00:44:49.669 --> 00:44:53.870
 if I advertise on Facebook versus in the paper in the old days versus direct mail,

1183
00:44:54.230 --> 00:44:55.151
 those are tactics.

1184
00:44:55.691 --> 00:44:56.691
 But the strategy is...

1185
00:44:57.031 --> 00:44:57.411
 live on.

1186
00:45:02.035 --> 00:45:09.680
Are you looking to quickly boost new Amazon product launches or scale up existing listings to reach first page positioning?

1187
00:45:10.120 --> 00:45:12.882
 The influencer platform Stack Influence can help.

1188
00:45:13.343 --> 00:45:13.923
That's right.

1189
00:45:14.003 --> 00:45:23.450
 Stack Influence pushes high volume external traffic sales straight to Amazon listings using micro influencers that you only have to pay with your products.

1190
00:45:24.430 --> 00:45:25.091
They've helped

1191
00:45:25.471 --> 00:45:30.534
 Up-and-coming brands like Magic Spoon compete with Cheerios for top category positioning,

1192
00:45:31.094 --> 00:45:36.417
 while also helping Fortune 500 brands like Unilever launch their new products.

1193
00:45:37.078 --> 00:45:40.600
Right now is one of the best times to get started with Stack Influence.

1194
00:45:40.940 --> 00:45:48.884
 You can sign up at stackinfluence.com or click the link in this video down in the description or notes below and mention Misfits,

1195
00:45:48.904 --> 00:45:50.945
 that's M-I-S-F-I-T-S,

1196
00:45:51.266 --> 00:45:52.086
 to get 10%

1197
00:45:52.186 --> 00:45:53.627
 off your first campaign.

1198
00:45:54.879 --> 00:46:16.638
 stack influence.com so what about the strategy of in the old days in direct mail there was there were stickers so you would you would get a magazine to subscribe to a magazine or to get something you had to take the little yes sticker and it would peel off and you would peel that off the

1199
00:46:16.758 --> 00:46:22.963
 order the letter or something and you stick it stick it on the actual postcard or the order form to mailing in you

1200
00:46:23.063 --> 00:46:27.167
 That increased conversion rates like crazy for a lot of direct mail pieces of done right.

1201
00:46:27.567 --> 00:46:30.749
 How do you do that same concept or that same strategy online?

1202
00:46:31.190 --> 00:46:32.191
You're getting engagement.

1203
00:46:32.231 --> 00:46:33.852
 So it's basically getting engagement.

1204
00:46:34.152 --> 00:46:39.657
 If someone is going to spend time with you and they're going to do the sticker on the form,

1205
00:46:40.057 --> 00:46:42.019
 they are engaged in the process.

1206
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:42.439
 All right.

1207
00:46:42.820 --> 00:46:46.423
 So how do you engage people on a website?

1208
00:46:46.843 --> 00:46:51.407
 You give them enough information to go from thing to thing to thing.

1209
00:46:52.211 --> 00:46:56.394
 And this is why if you look at Universal Analytics versus GA4,

1210
00:46:57.175 --> 00:47:04.900
 how we've moved from bounce rates and stuff to more like engagement rates over time,

1211
00:47:05.640 --> 00:47:08.242
 engagement is now the metric.

1212
00:47:08.462 --> 00:47:12.285
 Are people actually engaging with the website,

1213
00:47:12.325 --> 00:47:13.466
 engaging with the company?

1214
00:47:13.606 --> 00:47:20.891
 And so we look at that as just almost a direct example to what you're talking about.

1215
00:47:21.231 --> 00:47:22.092
 Are they engaged?

1216
00:47:22.172 --> 00:47:23.473
 Are they following the path?

1217
00:47:23.833 --> 00:47:25.014
 Are they keeping going on?

1218
00:47:25.354 --> 00:47:26.555
 Because on the stickers,

1219
00:47:26.595 --> 00:47:27.056
 you know,

1220
00:47:27.576 --> 00:47:28.497
 there were people who went,

1221
00:47:28.917 --> 00:47:29.137
 you know,

1222
00:47:29.117 --> 00:47:30.699
 they put one down and they went,

1223
00:47:30.979 --> 00:47:31.399
 you know what?

1224
00:47:31.820 --> 00:47:32.700
 They decided not to.

1225
00:47:32.680 --> 00:47:34.041
 And there's a couple put a couple down,

1226
00:47:34.322 --> 00:47:35.463
 but they didn't put the check in.

1227
00:47:35.543 --> 00:47:35.803
 You know,

1228
00:47:36.263 --> 00:47:46.912
 there's different stages and you want to keep giving people engagement steps so that they continue on to whatever the final thing is up on your up on your your website.

1229
00:47:46.912 --> 00:47:48.673
 Does that make sense,

1230
00:47:48.693 --> 00:47:48.953
 Kevin?

1231
00:47:49.674 --> 00:47:49.794
Yeah.

1232
00:47:49.894 --> 00:47:50.014
 Yeah.

1233
00:47:50.014 --> 00:47:50.134
 No,

1234
00:47:50.134 --> 00:47:50.735
 that makes sense.

1235
00:47:51.948 --> 00:47:52.168
 I mean,

1236
00:47:52.168 --> 00:47:55.311
 there's a lot of people out there that are good at marketing,

1237
00:47:55.351 --> 00:47:57.332
 maybe at getting people to the page,

1238
00:47:57.412 --> 00:47:58.693
 but that's where they stop.

1239
00:47:59.374 --> 00:48:02.876
 There's so many people don't know how to optimize the page once they got on there.

1240
00:48:03.416 --> 00:48:04.877
 And you see this over and over.

1241
00:48:04.877 --> 00:48:08.360
 You see it on Amazon where you don't have as much control as you do on your own website.

1242
00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:11.822
 But where people are getting massive clicks or they're spending a lot of money,

1243
00:48:11.882 --> 00:48:13.063
 but then they just can't convert them.

1244
00:48:14.384 --> 00:48:14.524
 And

1245
00:48:14.985 --> 00:48:19.328
 I think more people need to pay attention to and spend time on.

1246
00:48:19.860 --> 00:48:26.422
 optimizing for conversion rather than making some finessing their images or the graphic or something like that.

1247
00:48:27.842 --> 00:48:29.423
And this is why we're in business.

1248
00:48:29.823 --> 00:48:31.103
 And we're quite happy about that.

1249
00:48:31.423 --> 00:48:32.063
 As a matter of fact,

1250
00:48:32.564 --> 00:48:32.924
 50%

1251
00:48:33.284 --> 00:48:36.865
 of our revenue comes from other agencies because we're not competitive with them.

1252
00:48:37.185 --> 00:48:39.386
 But what we do makes them look really good.

1253
00:48:40.006 --> 00:48:43.727
So let's talk about engagement on a website.

1254
00:48:44.347 --> 00:48:45.727
 There's certain things you can do.

1255
00:48:46.387 --> 00:48:48.088
 You can have your chat bot.

1256
00:48:48.368 --> 00:48:54.411
 running and you can get people to start asking questions and getting the answers right away.

1257
00:48:54.671 --> 00:48:59.733
 What are some other things that people can do to engage while they're on a website?

1258
00:49:00.553 --> 00:49:03.615
They can watch a video and hopefully watch it to the end.

1259
00:49:04.275 --> 00:49:07.836
 They can fill out a form that's considered engagement.

1260
00:49:08.277 --> 00:49:12.238
 They could go from page to page to page within a website.

1261
00:49:12.659 --> 00:49:14.839
 They can read a long article,

1262
00:49:15.260 --> 00:49:15.940
 which takes them.

1263
00:49:16.220 --> 00:49:17.221
 10 minutes to read,

1264
00:49:17.361 --> 00:49:17.701
 all right,

1265
00:49:17.781 --> 00:49:19.342
 and they scroll down to the bottom.

1266
00:49:19.763 --> 00:49:20.623
 That's engagement.

1267
00:49:20.883 --> 00:49:25.387
 So there's multiple things that Google sees as signs for engagement,

1268
00:49:25.747 --> 00:49:26.628
 time on site,

1269
00:49:26.768 --> 00:49:28.129
 number of pages visited,

1270
00:49:28.569 --> 00:49:29.490
 actions taken.

1271
00:49:29.830 --> 00:49:31.391
 Those are all engagement metrics.

1272
00:49:31.931 --> 00:49:32.672
And you mentioned,

1273
00:49:32.672 --> 00:49:33.553
 kind of just real quick,

1274
00:49:33.573 --> 00:49:34.273
 I wanted to clarify,

1275
00:49:34.633 --> 00:49:35.974
 you said it a few minutes ago.

1276
00:49:36.154 --> 00:49:37.335
 Can you explain for the audience?

1277
00:49:37.375 --> 00:49:40.998
 I think you said some terminology there that everybody listening might not get.

1278
00:49:41.378 --> 00:49:43.420
 You said everything went from the old way that you see.

1279
00:49:44.040 --> 00:49:45.081
 to the GA4 way.

1280
00:49:45.101 --> 00:49:46.342
 Can you explain what that is?

1281
00:49:46.862 --> 00:49:47.102
 I mean,

1282
00:49:47.102 --> 00:49:47.683
 I understand it,

1283
00:49:47.683 --> 00:49:49.424
 but can you explain for the audience what that is?

1284
00:49:50.024 --> 00:49:50.225
Okay.

1285
00:49:50.685 --> 00:49:53.187
 So universal analytics,

1286
00:49:53.807 --> 00:49:54.087
 which,

1287
00:49:54.288 --> 00:49:54.528
 you know,

1288
00:49:54.568 --> 00:49:56.729
 there's pluses and minuses to everything in this world,

1289
00:49:56.769 --> 00:50:00.252
 but universal analytics was relatively easy to use.

1290
00:50:01.032 --> 00:50:05.916
 And it was a way to set up and capture your metrics as well as report on it.

1291
00:50:07.697 --> 00:50:10.1000
 Where GA4 now is more of a reporting mechanism,

1292
00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:12.721
 And when you're setting it up correctly,

1293
00:50:12.761 --> 00:50:20.688
 you're actually setting up the triggers up in the Google Tag Manager to fire off and then you're doing the reporting.

1294
00:50:21.108 --> 00:50:21.228
 So,

1295
00:50:21.949 --> 00:50:23.490
 Universal Analytics is more of a,

1296
00:50:23.871 --> 00:50:24.191
 I'm sorry,

1297
00:50:24.571 --> 00:50:28.054
 GA4 is more of a reporting tool where

1298
00:50:28.575 --> 00:50:30.076
 UA was more of an all-in-one.

1299
00:50:30.456 --> 00:50:31.657
 But they also changed,

1300
00:50:31.737 --> 00:50:32.018
 you know,

1301
00:50:32.138 --> 00:50:39.164
 from what was important on metrics there and engagement became a much more,

1302
00:50:39.664 --> 00:50:55.848
 uh important metric than in the old days bounce rate as a matter of fact when ga4 first came out it didn't even offer bounce rate you had to kind of create it on your own to do it i think it's back in there now because people got lost but but

1303
00:50:56.609 --> 00:51:08.312
 you know the the mechanisms on how you set it up how you trigger the key events you know and how you do reporting have all changed from from ua to j4 now

1304
00:51:09.112 --> 00:51:10.713
 You know,

1305
00:51:10.733 --> 00:51:11.693
 I used UA for

1306
00:51:12.113 --> 00:51:13.534
 Universal Analytics for forever,

1307
00:51:13.654 --> 00:51:13.854
 right?

1308
00:51:13.894 --> 00:51:15.175
 Or at least it felt like it.

1309
00:51:15.415 --> 00:51:17.916
 I think dinosaurs roamed the earth when I first used it,

1310
00:51:18.316 --> 00:51:18.436
 right?

1311
00:51:18.456 --> 00:51:18.776
 And so,

1312
00:51:19.556 --> 00:51:20.057
 but now,

1313
00:51:20.157 --> 00:51:20.397
 you know,

1314
00:51:20.377 --> 00:51:20.657
 we all,

1315
00:51:20.957 --> 00:51:21.577
 you're smiling,

1316
00:51:21.577 --> 00:51:22.017
 but it's true.

1317
00:51:22.077 --> 00:51:22.478
 But now,

1318
00:51:22.618 --> 00:51:22.858
 you know,

1319
00:51:22.898 --> 00:51:23.458
 for the past,

1320
00:51:23.598 --> 00:51:23.838
 you know,

1321
00:51:24.398 --> 00:51:24.718
 year,

1322
00:51:24.738 --> 00:51:25.479
 a couple of years,

1323
00:51:25.619 --> 00:51:25.859
 you know,

1324
00:51:26.119 --> 00:51:27.259
 we had to transition to GA4.

1325
00:51:28.300 --> 00:51:29.821
 And now on my team,

1326
00:51:29.941 --> 00:51:34.702
 I have people that actually set up the tag manager correctly,

1327
00:51:34.763 --> 00:51:38.104
 because I can't tell you how many times we have things fired multiple times.

1328
00:51:38.504 --> 00:51:39.824
 People fire it in

1329
00:51:40.185 --> 00:51:40.825
 Tag Manager,

1330
00:51:40.825 --> 00:51:44.466
 and then they somehow manage to embed code on their websites,

1331
00:51:44.506 --> 00:51:46.046
 and things are double-counted,

1332
00:51:46.106 --> 00:51:46.946
 not counting at all,

1333
00:51:46.986 --> 00:51:48.527
 doing all sorts of wacky things,

1334
00:51:48.607 --> 00:51:48.867
 okay?

1335
00:51:49.347 --> 00:51:51.188
 So it's a little bit more complicated.

1336
00:51:51.188 --> 00:51:54.529
 It requires a little bit more technical know-how,

1337
00:51:54.949 --> 00:51:56.029
 but when done right,

1338
00:51:56.029 --> 00:51:57.470
 you can get nice reports out of it.

1339
00:51:58.030 --> 00:52:01.071
 So as opposed to in the old days with,

1340
00:52:01.231 --> 00:52:02.011
 I'll go a step further,

1341
00:52:02.431 --> 00:52:02.931
 with UA,

1342
00:52:03.331 --> 00:52:04.612
 you could get reports out of it,

1343
00:52:05.452 --> 00:52:05.632
 but...

1344
00:52:06.072 --> 00:52:09.634
 they could make your eyes roll in your head and you could film at the mouth,

1345
00:52:09.735 --> 00:52:09.935
 right?

1346
00:52:09.955 --> 00:52:10.815
 So we would use,

1347
00:52:11.195 --> 00:52:11.436
 you know,

1348
00:52:11.576 --> 00:52:12.396
 Looker Studio,

1349
00:52:12.737 --> 00:52:12.957
 okay,

1350
00:52:13.157 --> 00:52:14.738
 or Data Visual Studio at the time,

1351
00:52:15.598 --> 00:52:18.020
 to actually create reports that people could comprehend,

1352
00:52:18.260 --> 00:52:18.480
 right?

1353
00:52:18.861 --> 00:52:23.824
 And now we're able to do a little bit more of that within GA4 itself.

1354
00:52:24.444 --> 00:52:26.266
That's when I first started losing my hair,

1355
00:52:27.587 --> 00:52:28.547
 looking at those reports.

1356
00:52:28.747 --> 00:52:30.308
That's what happened.

1357
00:52:30.408 --> 00:52:30.549
Yeah.

1358
00:52:30.869 --> 00:52:31.409
 And by the way,

1359
00:52:31.449 --> 00:52:32.270
 you said dinosaur,

1360
00:52:32.310 --> 00:52:33.290
 they call me the fossil.

1361
00:52:33.431 --> 00:52:34.711
 So that's...

1362
00:52:34.731 --> 00:52:34.932
Yeah.

1363
00:52:36.994 --> 00:52:37.114
Now,

1364
00:52:37.214 --> 00:52:39.677
 let's talk a little bit about tools,

1365
00:52:40.197 --> 00:52:40.518
apps.

1366
00:52:40.698 --> 00:52:45.784
Are there any low-cost apps or no-cost tools that small businesses can use?

1367
00:52:46.365 --> 00:52:46.485
Oh,

1368
00:52:46.565 --> 00:52:47.106
 absolutely.

1369
00:52:47.186 --> 00:52:50.270
 The number one free app that people should use.

1370
00:52:50.830 --> 00:52:51.570
 is Clarity,

1371
00:52:51.650 --> 00:52:52.571
 Microsoft Clarity.

1372
00:52:53.091 --> 00:52:54.652
 It is a heat mapping tool.

1373
00:52:54.672 --> 00:52:56.493
 It does a lot of really good things on it.

1374
00:52:57.213 --> 00:52:57.813
 For years,

1375
00:52:58.553 --> 00:53:00.474
 for people who were looking for paid versions of things,

1376
00:53:00.514 --> 00:53:01.075
 we used

1377
00:53:02.255 --> 00:53:04.476
 Hotjar and Lucky Orange and so on,

1378
00:53:04.476 --> 00:53:05.597
 and they're all good products,

1379
00:53:06.657 --> 00:53:09.218
 but if someone's at the lower end of the spectrum,

1380
00:53:09.718 --> 00:53:12.820
 then they could use Microsoft Clarity to do a lot,

1381
00:53:13.260 --> 00:53:13.800
 maybe not all,

1382
00:53:13.820 --> 00:53:15.081
 but a lot of the same things.

1383
00:53:15.881 --> 00:53:17.642
 It's a pretty decent tool.

1384
00:53:18.042 --> 00:53:18.182
 Now,

1385
00:53:18.202 --> 00:53:18.902
 in fairness,

1386
00:53:19.042 --> 00:53:21.003
 unless you've got massive traffic,

1387
00:53:21.243 --> 00:53:22.883
 even Hotjar is not that expensive.

1388
00:53:23.644 --> 00:53:30.225
 And Hotjar has some other things that are good in it that Clarity may not have.

1389
00:53:30.946 --> 00:53:31.086
 Now,

1390
00:53:31.146 --> 00:53:31.846
 in the old days,

1391
00:53:31.866 --> 00:53:32.846
 I go back to the old days,

1392
00:53:32.866 --> 00:53:33.086
 you know,

1393
00:53:33.546 --> 00:53:35.327
 back when I used to walk uphill to school.

1394
00:53:35.387 --> 00:53:35.567
 Now,

1395
00:53:37.887 --> 00:53:38.648
 in the old days,

1396
00:53:39.068 --> 00:53:42.069
 Google Optimize was a free testing tool,

1397
00:53:42.269 --> 00:53:42.529
 you know,

1398
00:53:42.589 --> 00:53:43.769
 and now they had a paid version,

1399
00:53:43.829 --> 00:53:46.330
 but a lot of our clients use Google Optimize.

1400
00:53:46.450 --> 00:53:46.890
 And so,

1401
00:53:47.570 --> 00:53:48.211
 Since then,

1402
00:53:48.731 --> 00:53:49.252
 that went away.

1403
00:53:49.292 --> 00:53:52.495
 And I'm sure Google at some point will come back with a new version.

1404
00:53:53.596 --> 00:53:56.219
 But there's a ton of really good testing tools out there.

1405
00:53:56.679 --> 00:53:57.840
 And if you're testing,

1406
00:53:58.801 --> 00:54:00.003
 you could use anything from,

1407
00:54:00.143 --> 00:54:00.423
 you know,

1408
00:54:01.744 --> 00:54:08.131
 at the lower cost from like OmniConvert or Convert or maybe Tasty or VWO.

1409
00:54:08.251 --> 00:54:08.431
 Well,

1410
00:54:08.731 --> 00:54:10.273
 VWO can start to get expensive.

1411
00:54:11.978 --> 00:54:14.820
 The trick is those are all charging based on session.

1412
00:54:15.481 --> 00:54:16.362
 So here's the thing.

1413
00:54:16.402 --> 00:54:17.763
 For small businesses,

1414
00:54:18.143 --> 00:54:19.924
 if you don't have a lot of volume,

1415
00:54:21.585 --> 00:54:22.706
 it's really hard to test.

1416
00:54:22.746 --> 00:54:25.789
 And here's the testing rule of thumb.

1417
00:54:27.510 --> 00:54:29.071
 To really run testing,

1418
00:54:29.411 --> 00:54:32.674
 you need to have 10 conversion actions per day,

1419
00:54:33.254 --> 00:54:34.395
 per device type,

1420
00:54:34.435 --> 00:54:35.916
 meaning desktop versus mobile,

1421
00:54:36.797 --> 00:54:37.777
 and in a perfect world,

1422
00:54:37.837 --> 00:54:38.398
 per channel.

1423
00:54:38.738 --> 00:54:45.984
 because organic traffic is different than paid traffic versus social traffic and so on so if you think about what does it take to get

1424
00:54:46.424 --> 00:55:03.298
 10 sales a day or 10 leads a day where the 10 leads let's say came from your desktop on your pay-per-click channel you need that minimum and then your test is going to run for almost a month before it resolves out all right and so

1425
00:55:04.478 --> 00:55:06.480
 If you don't have those kinds of volumes,

1426
00:55:06.620 --> 00:55:07.561
 your tests will run,

1427
00:55:07.721 --> 00:55:09.802
 never get to statistical significance.

1428
00:55:10.122 --> 00:55:10.763
 And then what do you do?

1429
00:55:10.923 --> 00:55:14.225
 So you can test on what we call micro conversions,

1430
00:55:14.645 --> 00:55:17.948
 which is they get from one page to the next page.

1431
00:55:17.968 --> 00:55:21.010
 So they're on your page where it says,

1432
00:55:21.070 --> 00:55:21.310
 you know,

1433
00:55:21.330 --> 00:55:21.991
 book an appointment.

1434
00:55:22.011 --> 00:55:23.692
 They click on that button to book an appointment,

1435
00:55:23.972 --> 00:55:25.233
 and then they don't fill out the form.

1436
00:55:25.233 --> 00:55:25.673
 But you know,

1437
00:55:25.753 --> 00:55:27.815
 you're getting more people over to that page,

1438
00:55:28.255 --> 00:55:28.515
 you know,

1439
00:55:28.735 --> 00:55:30.657
 and then you get more people starting to fill out the form.

1440
00:55:30.777 --> 00:55:32.458
 And then you get more people hitting submit.

1441
00:55:32.858 --> 00:55:35.581
 Those are micro conversion steps along the journey.

1442
00:55:36.081 --> 00:55:39.665
 And most people have micro conversions that they can test.

1443
00:55:40.525 --> 00:55:41.406
 And you can do that,

1444
00:55:41.726 --> 00:55:41.927
 right,

1445
00:55:43.368 --> 00:55:45.310
 with getting to statistical significance.

1446
00:55:45.330 --> 00:55:45.750
 But again,

1447
00:55:46.351 --> 00:55:47.132
 it really should be,

1448
00:55:47.992 --> 00:55:48.113
 well,

1449
00:55:48.113 --> 00:55:50.295
 it has to be per device type,

1450
00:55:50.515 --> 00:55:50.715
 right?

1451
00:55:50.815 --> 00:55:51.756
 And in a perfect world,

1452
00:55:52.156 --> 00:55:52.737
 per channel,

1453
00:55:53.117 --> 00:55:53.358
 okay?

1454
00:55:58.058 --> 00:55:58.278
Hey,

1455
00:55:58.398 --> 00:55:59.840
 Kevin King and Norm Farrar here.

1456
00:55:59.900 --> 00:56:02.222
 If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits,

1457
00:56:02.382 --> 00:56:03.563
 thanks for listening this far.

1458
00:56:04.163 --> 00:56:04.824
 Continue listening.

1459
00:56:04.824 --> 00:56:06.505
 We've got some more valuable stuff coming up.

1460
00:56:06.865 --> 00:56:11.269
 Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player,

1461
00:56:11.329 --> 00:56:13.311
 or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify,

1462
00:56:13.471 --> 00:56:18.135
 make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of the Marketing Misfits.

1463
00:56:18.395 --> 00:56:19.236
 Have you subscribed yet,

1464
00:56:19.296 --> 00:56:19.476
 Norm?

1465
00:56:20.116 --> 00:56:20.277
Well,

1466
00:56:20.357 --> 00:56:21.778
 this is an old guy alert.

1467
00:56:22.378 --> 00:56:24.340
 Should I subscribe to my own podcast?

1468
00:56:25.488 --> 00:56:25.728
Yeah,

1469
00:56:25.728 --> 00:56:27.429
 but what if you forget to show up one time?

1470
00:56:27.429 --> 00:56:28.290
 It's just me on here.

1471
00:56:28.410 --> 00:56:29.350
 You're not going to know what I say.

1472
00:56:30.591 --> 00:56:33.132
I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair too.

1473
00:56:33.172 --> 00:56:33.733
 And we'll just,

1474
00:56:33.973 --> 00:56:35.614
 you can go back and forth with one another.

1475
00:56:38.435 --> 00:56:40.797
 But that being said,

1476
00:56:41.357 --> 00:56:42.918
 don't forget to subscribe,

1477
00:56:43.698 --> 00:56:44.118
 share it.

1478
00:56:44.719 --> 00:56:44.859
 Oh,

1479
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:46.680
 and if you really like this content,

1480
00:56:47.200 --> 00:56:48.201
 somewhere up there,

1481
00:56:48.821 --> 00:56:49.621
 there's a banner.

1482
00:56:49.742 --> 00:56:53.964
 Click on it and you'll go to another episode of the Marketing Misfits.

1483
00:56:55.024 --> 00:56:58.308
Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm.

1484
00:57:03.955 --> 00:57:05.036
 Let's focus on clarity.

1485
00:57:05.096 --> 00:57:06.598
 We'll give you those tools,

1486
00:57:06.598 --> 00:57:07.138
 a hot jar.

1487
00:57:08.140 --> 00:57:09.341
 That's more than just heat mapping.

1488
00:57:09.581 --> 00:57:11.424
 They'll actually give you these statistics.

1489
00:57:11.804 --> 00:57:14.425
 Do they actually do swap outs of like AB testing?

1490
00:57:14.605 --> 00:57:14.725
No,

1491
00:57:14.865 --> 00:57:14.985
 no,

1492
00:57:15.185 --> 00:57:15.305
 no.

1493
00:57:16.285 --> 00:57:16.405
 No,

1494
00:57:16.465 --> 00:57:20.207
 those are going to require the testing tools like the convert.

1495
00:57:20.587 --> 00:57:23.468
 So what the heat mapping and recording tools do,

1496
00:57:23.588 --> 00:57:26.709
 we'll let you look at the data to figure out what people are doing.

1497
00:57:26.709 --> 00:57:26.829
 So,

1498
00:57:26.869 --> 00:57:27.409
 for example,

1499
00:57:27.469 --> 00:57:28.589
 on heat mapping tools,

1500
00:57:28.949 --> 00:57:30.930
 if you look at the recordings on a heat map tool,

1501
00:57:31.370 --> 00:57:34.171
 when somebody comes to your site and they don't scroll and they just leave,

1502
00:57:34.271 --> 00:57:37.572
 whatever you said there didn't match the user intent up front.

1503
00:57:38.172 --> 00:57:41.695
 If they scroll down to the page at the bottom and they leave,

1504
00:57:41.775 --> 00:57:44.337
 whatever you said wasn't interesting or compelling enough.

1505
00:57:44.757 --> 00:57:48.781
 If they scroll down and then up and then down and up and they leave,

1506
00:57:49.261 --> 00:57:50.522
 whatever they were looking for,

1507
00:57:50.622 --> 00:57:51.603
 they didn't find.

1508
00:57:51.943 --> 00:57:52.063
 OK.

1509
00:57:52.604 --> 00:57:57.027
 And so there's different tricks to look at these heat maps and recordings to figure out,

1510
00:57:57.087 --> 00:57:57.247
 like,

1511
00:57:57.307 --> 00:57:58.869
 why are people abandoning?

1512
00:57:58.889 --> 00:58:00.470
 What are they actually doing here?

1513
00:58:00.830 --> 00:58:05.534
 And so analyzing heat maps and recordings in itself is kind of a science.

1514
00:58:05.574 --> 00:58:05.794
 Sorry.

1515
00:58:06.014 --> 00:58:07.636
 And you can get quite away with.

1516
00:58:07.996 --> 00:58:09.437
 just using those types of tools.

1517
00:58:11.017 --> 00:58:11.918
What about trends?

1518
00:58:12.238 --> 00:58:14.239
 What do you see for online sellers?

1519
00:58:14.299 --> 00:58:15.579
 What should they be looking at?

1520
00:58:16.880 --> 00:58:18.300
I'm going to go back to engagement.

1521
00:58:18.300 --> 00:58:20.321
 If people are not engaged on your site,

1522
00:58:23.163 --> 00:58:23.883
 sooner or later,

1523
00:58:24.403 --> 00:58:25.524
 you're going to wind up in trouble.

1524
00:58:25.984 --> 00:58:29.565
 You have to make whatever you're offering compelling.

1525
00:58:29.605 --> 00:58:31.426
 So we had a client who,

1526
00:58:32.567 --> 00:58:32.907
 and again,

1527
00:58:32.927 --> 00:58:34.407
 this is not normal case,

1528
00:58:34.567 --> 00:58:35.448
 but we had a client

1529
00:58:35.968 --> 00:58:39.071
 where we increase their revenue by 1000%

1530
00:58:40.092 --> 00:58:41.133
 within six months,

1531
00:58:41.353 --> 00:58:41.613
 okay.

1532
00:58:42.133 --> 00:58:54.004
 And we turn them into a multi multi million dollar business by increasing the engagement so that people would actually go from step one to step two to buy right now in fairness,

1533
00:58:54.084 --> 00:58:56.806
 why didn't why are those results not normal?

1534
00:58:57.286 --> 00:58:57.527
 You know,

1535
00:58:57.547 --> 00:59:00.389
 they're the before if I showed you the before their website,

1536
00:59:00.669 --> 00:59:03.632
 it literally looked like who did it and ran it was awful.

1537
00:59:03.852 --> 00:59:04.032
 Right.

1538
00:59:04.392 --> 00:59:07.135
 So a blind monkey could have made it better.

1539
00:59:07.515 --> 00:59:07.715
 Right.

1540
00:59:07.875 --> 00:59:10.277
 But we got him to,

1541
00:59:10.357 --> 00:59:10.818
 like I said,

1542
00:59:11.038 --> 00:59:19.064
 be a multimillion dollar company because we applied all of those engagement things to get people to go through the funnel from start to finish.

1543
00:59:20.305 --> 00:59:20.705
All right.

1544
00:59:20.825 --> 00:59:20.945
 So,

1545
00:59:21.166 --> 00:59:21.346
 Kev,

1546
00:59:21.366 --> 00:59:22.487
 do you have any other questions?

1547
00:59:24.528 --> 00:59:25.669
Not off the top of my head right now.

1548
00:59:25.809 --> 00:59:27.310
 This has been really,

1549
00:59:27.350 --> 00:59:27.771
 really good.

1550
00:59:28.932 --> 00:59:29.072
Yeah.

1551
00:59:29.332 --> 00:59:50.729
 a lot of information so marty i gotta ask you at the end of every podcast we always ask our guests our misfit if they know a misfit you mean besides me you don't want me back again is that what you say i'll have you back again we'll be back again yeah i'm hurt oh my god right now

1552
00:59:50.830 --> 00:59:58.356
submit all right so anyway uh i have a friend uh who runs an agency called fire and spark his name is dale bertrand

1553
00:59:58.796 --> 01:00:17.902
 okay although you know i talked about him a little bit before uh he's not french it's not my tongue you know that's how it is it's it's the version and he is with fire and spark he and i went through heroic public speaking together and uh learned how to speak in front of large audiences although he was already doing a lot of that and

1554
01:00:18.002 --> 01:00:23.484
 uh he has actually been a keynote speaker at inbound for hubspot in front of 12

1555
01:00:23.824 --> 01:00:24.544
 000 people so

1556
01:00:25.024 --> 01:00:26.425
 He is an amazing,

1557
01:00:26.565 --> 01:00:28.926
 amazing speaker and he's brilliant.

1558
01:00:29.026 --> 01:00:31.408
 And he is he is very,

1559
01:00:31.488 --> 01:00:32.669
 very knowledgeable about

1560
01:00:33.249 --> 01:00:35.791
 SEO conversions and AI.

1561
01:00:35.951 --> 01:00:40.693
 He is he and I just had a conversation the other day about using AI for different things.

1562
01:00:41.274 --> 01:00:42.054
 I got to tell you,

1563
01:00:42.174 --> 01:00:43.195
 my hat's off to Dale.

1564
01:00:43.535 --> 01:00:45.056
 He is freaking brilliant.

1565
01:00:45.496 --> 01:00:46.537
 So and a nice guy.

1566
01:00:47.117 --> 01:00:50.159
 So yeah,

1567
01:00:50.399 --> 01:00:51.020
but not French.

1568
01:00:51.100 --> 01:00:51.360
 Okay.

1569
01:00:52.433 --> 01:00:53.474
And that was SiteTuners.

1570
01:00:53.474 --> 01:00:54.754
 If people want to know more too,

1571
01:00:54.814 --> 01:00:54.994
 right,

1572
01:00:55.034 --> 01:00:57.035
 it's sitetuners.com,

1573
01:00:57.115 --> 01:00:57.295
 right?

1574
01:00:57.735 --> 01:00:57.895
Yep,

1575
01:00:58.035 --> 01:00:59.316
 sitetuners.com.

1576
01:00:59.536 --> 01:00:59.876
 And,

1577
01:01:00.637 --> 01:01:00.877
 you know,

1578
01:01:00.917 --> 01:01:01.957
 they can read about us,

1579
01:01:03.238 --> 01:01:09.080
 they can sign up for an appointment if they're generating $5 million a year or more in revenue.

1580
01:01:09.140 --> 01:01:13.722
 We're more than happy to do a free consultation where we tell them what to change on their website.

1581
01:01:14.082 --> 01:01:15.603
 We believe you give before you get.

1582
01:01:15.723 --> 01:01:17.824
 And if I can teach people how to make more money,

1583
01:01:18.644 --> 01:01:20.625
 they typically do this for free.

1584
01:01:21.085 --> 01:01:41.234
imagine what happens if we pay them or you can hit that little symbol of a phone up in the top right corner and you can call and they will and they will schedule an appointment because that's what I mean them to do all right Marty well thanks a lot for coming on I am just gonna remove you we'll be right back to you okay that's

1585
01:01:41.254 --> 01:01:49.277
my other job okay do your job pretty well over there though I'm getting better at it you know you can like hit that button uh yes

1586
01:01:50.133 --> 01:01:50.394
 No,

1587
01:01:50.614 --> 01:01:52.195
 you're getting better and better at it.

1588
01:01:52.195 --> 01:01:52.375
You know,

1589
01:01:52.415 --> 01:01:53.236
 instead of removing...

1590
01:01:53.236 --> 01:01:55.277
I'm not getting kicked off anymore when you hit the button.

1591
01:01:55.897 --> 01:01:56.578
 I'll believe you.

1592
01:01:57.218 --> 01:01:58.059
Just a sec here.

1593
01:01:59.420 --> 01:01:59.800
 Okay,

1594
01:01:59.940 --> 01:02:00.060
 so

1595
01:02:00.721 --> 01:02:02.342
 I think I'm getting really great at this.

1596
01:02:02.402 --> 01:02:02.522
 Now,

1597
01:02:02.542 --> 01:02:04.263
 this is how I take over a podcast.

1598
01:02:07.866 --> 01:02:08.086
 Yeah,

1599
01:02:08.806 --> 01:02:08.947
 yeah.

1600
01:02:09.067 --> 01:02:12.149
 The only thing that would be better is if the remove button would be...

1601
01:02:12.229 --> 01:02:13.029
There you go.

1602
01:02:13.310 --> 01:02:15.411
That's the word of the day.

1603
01:02:15.491 --> 01:02:15.611
Oh,

1604
01:02:15.651 --> 01:02:15.771
 no.

1605
01:02:15.891 --> 01:02:16.051
 Now,

1606
01:02:16.132 --> 01:02:17.392
 every time I see that submit,

1607
01:02:17.492 --> 01:02:18.153
 I'm going to be like...

1608
01:02:18.677 --> 01:02:19.778
 And we think of like Norm,

1609
01:02:19.818 --> 01:02:21.119
 like Norm hitting submit.

1610
01:02:21.279 --> 01:02:21.420
 No,

1611
01:02:21.820 --> 01:02:21.940
 no,

1612
01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:23.822
 that's just a bad thought in my head.

1613
01:02:24.883 --> 01:02:28.786
Oh,

1614
01:02:28.866 --> 01:02:29.727
 I could say things.

1615
01:02:30.608 --> 01:02:31.048
 I won't.

1616
01:02:31.469 --> 01:02:31.889
I won't.

1617
01:02:31.949 --> 01:02:33.210
 I won't.

1618
01:02:33.771 --> 01:02:34.091
All right,

1619
01:02:34.131 --> 01:02:34.411
 Mr.

1620
01:02:34.471 --> 01:02:34.711
Kev.

1621
01:02:34.952 --> 01:02:39.236
 It's something that a lot of people don't spend enough time on or they don't get help with.

1622
01:02:39.276 --> 01:02:39.556
 I mean,

1623
01:02:39.616 --> 01:02:41.177
 that's where site tuners,

1624
01:02:41.197 --> 01:02:41.558
 I mean,

1625
01:02:42.499 --> 01:02:44.180
 sometimes it's just simple things that you just.

1626
01:02:45.617 --> 01:02:47.978
 You're just blind to or you don't know or you don't think about.

1627
01:02:47.998 --> 01:02:50.778
 And by going to someone like Marty and the guys at SiteTuners,

1628
01:02:52.379 --> 01:02:53.299
 it could make a big difference.

1629
01:02:53.299 --> 01:03:02.762
 Just like they gave the example of the site that was just doing okay and they took them to millions of dollars just by making some tweaks and jazzing it up with the right stuff.

1630
01:03:02.862 --> 01:03:04.342
Can you imagine?

1631
01:03:04.342 --> 01:03:04.582
 I mean,

1632
01:03:04.922 --> 01:03:06.343
 we're talking tweaks,

1633
01:03:07.043 --> 01:03:08.463
 just understanding the process.

1634
01:03:08.643 --> 01:03:09.964
 That's the incredible thing.

1635
01:03:10.484 --> 01:03:12.324
 And even just talking

1636
01:03:12.785 --> 01:03:13.965
 CRO, a lot of people...

1637
01:03:14.505 --> 01:03:15.586
 Just before Marty came on,

1638
01:03:16.427 --> 01:03:19.870
 I was just telling him that we haven't really talked about that,

1639
01:03:20.090 --> 01:03:22.552
 and I don't see a lot of podcasts talking about that,

1640
01:03:23.012 --> 01:03:25.314
 that side of the strategy or strategies.

1641
01:03:25.875 --> 01:03:27.096
 But anyways,

1642
01:03:27.576 --> 01:03:28.317
 how can people get a hold of us?

1643
01:03:28.317 --> 01:03:28.397
Yeah,

1644
01:03:28.397 --> 01:03:29.638
 if you like this episode with Marty,

1645
01:03:29.738 --> 01:03:34.241
 make sure you actually check out some of the other episodes of Marketing Misfits here on this channel.

1646
01:03:34.241 --> 01:03:35.222
 If you're watching on YouTube,

1647
01:03:35.222 --> 01:03:38.685
 there's plenty of other ones around that you might want to check out.

1648
01:03:38.685 --> 01:03:43.269
 Go back and look at last week's or hit that subscribe button if you want to make sure you don't miss any.

1649
01:03:43.757 --> 01:03:44.157
 Any of them.

1650
01:03:44.358 --> 01:03:46.819
 We have a new one that comes out every single Tuesday,

1651
01:03:47.460 --> 01:03:48.200
 like Clockwork.

1652
01:03:48.240 --> 01:03:50.962
 So be sure to check those out and hit subscribe.

1653
01:03:50.962 --> 01:03:55.205
 If you listen to this on Apple or podcast or Spotify,

1654
01:03:55.325 --> 01:03:56.326
 subscribe to us there.

1655
01:03:56.806 --> 01:03:57.307
 And sometimes,

1656
01:03:57.567 --> 01:03:57.787
 you know,

1657
01:03:57.787 --> 01:04:00.069
 you might want to actually check us out on YouTube as well,

1658
01:04:00.109 --> 01:04:01.009
 because on YouTube,

1659
01:04:01.610 --> 01:04:04.011
 you can actually see our smiling faces and see it.

1660
01:04:04.512 --> 01:04:04.992
 When Norm,

1661
01:04:06.053 --> 01:04:06.673
 he winks at me,

1662
01:04:07.194 --> 01:04:07.474
 you know,

1663
01:04:07.774 --> 01:04:09.996
 you can see it quite often,

1664
01:04:10.096 --> 01:04:10.456
actually.

1665
01:04:12.538 --> 01:04:13.959
too much it's too much

1666
01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:20.784
 I wish I had a button doesn't say submit yeah

1667
01:04:21.925 --> 01:04:39.860
 I can imagine marketing misfits dot oh man is it dot-com or I can never get this right norm it's dot-com one of these days I thought I was the fossil it's dot-com CEO marketing no m.co and look for some cool stuff announcing soon

1668
01:04:40.817 --> 01:04:42.158
 Something called Dragonfish.

1669
01:04:43.018 --> 01:04:43.818
 I don't know what that is.

1670
01:04:43.818 --> 01:04:44.399
 Do you know what that is,

1671
01:04:44.419 --> 01:04:45.159
 Norm?

1672
01:04:45.159 --> 01:04:46.559
 You ever heard of something called Dragonfish?

1673
01:04:49.381 --> 01:04:49.621
I do,

1674
01:04:49.741 --> 01:04:53.422
 but I have taken an oath of secrecy until we launched it.

1675
01:04:53.422 --> 01:04:53.983
The fifth.

1676
01:04:54.243 --> 01:04:54.563
 Okay.

1677
01:04:54.803 --> 01:04:55.223
 All right.

1678
01:04:55.583 --> 01:04:56.544
 You don't have that in Canada.

1679
01:04:56.644 --> 01:04:57.724
 You don't have a fifth in Canada,

1680
01:04:57.944 --> 01:04:58.204
 do you?

1681
01:04:59.705 --> 01:04:59.825
No,

1682
01:05:00.265 --> 01:05:00.385
 no,

1683
01:05:00.806 --> 01:05:00.926
 no.

1684
01:05:01.606 --> 01:05:02.566
 Don't even get me started.

1685
01:05:03.887 --> 01:05:04.187
All right,

1686
01:05:04.187 --> 01:05:04.527
 everybody.

1687
01:05:04.607 --> 01:05:07.708
 We'll see you again next week for another episode.

1688
01:05:07.768 --> 01:05:08.789
 It's been great hanging with you.

1689
01:05:09.862 --> 01:05:11.884
 Thanks for coming and joining us here on the marketing misfits.

1690
01:05:13.626 --> 01:05:14.046
See you later.