WEBVTT

1
00:00:01.260 --> 00:00:01.620
Huxley,

2
00:00:01.700 --> 00:00:02.180
Chamberlain,

3
00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:03.501
Lovren's late,

4
00:00:03.821 --> 00:00:04.441
it's in

5
00:00:04.841 --> 00:00:11.883
It's Liverpool's game on New Year's Day and Radnar Klavan turns out to be a massive hero

6
00:00:15.676 --> 00:00:20.097
Welcome to today's podcast and we're joined by Radnar

7
00:00:20.617 --> 00:00:25.178
Klavan and he's joining me and Gregory for today's podcast.

8
00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:25.759
Radnar,

9
00:00:25.879 --> 00:00:28.499
it is an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast.

10
00:00:29.183 --> 00:00:29.504
Thank you,

11
00:00:29.844 --> 00:00:30.824
it's my pleasure as well.

12
00:00:32.216 --> 00:00:33.937
Can I just ask where you are right now?

13
00:00:34.257 --> 00:00:39.531
You're obviously sitting in a professional office there with this nice logo in the background.

14
00:00:40.048 --> 00:00:40.488
Where are you?

15
00:00:41.588 --> 00:00:41.828
Yes,

16
00:00:44.297 --> 00:00:46.218
like in every footballer's career,

17
00:00:46.518 --> 00:00:49.079
there's got to be ends and you need to start something new.

18
00:00:49.219 --> 00:00:50.560
So I came back to Estonia.

19
00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:53.961
So this is where I'm at my club office.

20
00:00:54.221 --> 00:00:54.361
So

21
00:00:54.962 --> 00:00:57.143
I'm president of a football club here in Estonia.

22
00:00:57.783 --> 00:00:59.224
So this is where I'm at.

23
00:01:00.884 --> 00:01:07.683
Everyday doings are happening in this room and others in this facility.

24
00:01:09.487 --> 00:01:12.143
And what's it like,

25
00:01:12.404 --> 00:01:13.444
just out of curiosity,

26
00:01:13.544 --> 00:01:14.624
running a football club?

27
00:01:15.585 --> 00:01:16.765
That's always been my dream job,

28
00:01:16.925 --> 00:01:17.285
by the way.

29
00:01:17.325 --> 00:01:18.766
I've never played football,

30
00:01:18.866 --> 00:01:19.066
but

31
00:01:19.814 --> 00:01:21.075
I would love to run a football club.

32
00:01:21.115 --> 00:01:22.715
How is that different from a playing career?

33
00:01:24.172 --> 00:01:25.092
In one sense...

34
00:01:25.392 --> 00:01:42.126
it's not a big difference uh you you have a team you need to create team chemistry team spirit leading the team is the same happening on the field but running the daily business of football club of course it's totally different in

35
00:01:42.127 --> 00:01:47.648
that sense i needed to learn many new things after my football career so

36
00:01:48.936 --> 00:01:53.839
Also the management side of doing things,

37
00:01:54.059 --> 00:01:55.520
how to get the team working.

38
00:01:55.700 --> 00:02:02.988
There's also some level of bureaucracy involved there as well,

39
00:02:03.108 --> 00:02:03.768
all those things.

40
00:02:04.388 --> 00:02:05.729
But it was a good challenge for me.

41
00:02:05.869 --> 00:02:07.970
I think in every player's career,

42
00:02:08.271 --> 00:02:10.332
when the career ends,

43
00:02:11.752 --> 00:02:13.433
if you've done good enough work,

44
00:02:14.614 --> 00:02:17.856
then some of them will have lifelong vacation.

45
00:02:19.097 --> 00:02:21.919
I didn't want that journey for myself,

46
00:02:21.959 --> 00:02:27.283
so I always wanted to come back to Estonia and give back to the youth side of

47
00:02:27.924 --> 00:02:29.165
Estonian young players.

48
00:02:29.713 --> 00:02:34.905
Hopefully they will have a bigger or higher career than I had.

49
00:02:34.965 --> 00:02:37.528
This has always been my dream and also one of the dreams,

50
00:02:37.588 --> 00:02:37.868
because

51
00:02:38.268 --> 00:02:41.119
Estonia as a national team haven't made it to the Euros,

52
00:02:41.219 --> 00:02:48.376
so this is also one of my big dreams to help them develop those youth.

53
00:02:48.436 --> 00:03:07.735
players that they are in the future be able to play in the euros so this is my kind of national estonianism if you would like to call it that way giving back to the estonia as a country and where i grew up but

54
00:03:07.875 --> 00:03:14.500
running daily business in estonia as a as a club president i think it's totally different than you would uh

55
00:03:15.384 --> 00:03:21.027
be the owner of the president in Premier League or in Bundesliga or in Serie A.

56
00:03:21.428 --> 00:03:24.465
So this is smaller markets,

57
00:03:25.206 --> 00:03:26.506
smaller problems.

58
00:03:27.467 --> 00:03:29.208
But I think at the end of the day,

59
00:03:29.348 --> 00:03:31.309
we all want to develop the players,

60
00:03:31.909 --> 00:03:36.432
give them the best possible pathway to the highest level of football.

61
00:03:36.592 --> 00:03:39.854
So this doesn't change even if the market is smaller.

62
00:03:40.954 --> 00:03:44.176
How did your pathway start out there?

63
00:03:44.476 --> 00:03:45.717
what's the youth set up like?

64
00:03:45.797 --> 00:03:48.919
What was it like as a kid coming through and trying to make your way in Estonia?

65
00:03:51.475 --> 00:03:55.646
Just curious to know what that looks like compared to obviously over here in the UK,

66
00:03:55.866 --> 00:03:58.223
they've got academies and everything else.

67
00:03:58.523 --> 00:03:59.844
Is it a similar structure out there?

68
00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:03.021
I think we're moving towards it.

69
00:04:03.022 --> 00:04:08.392
I think my youth was a little bit different than it is nowadays.

70
00:04:08.732 --> 00:04:13.616
I think it also needs to do a little bit with Estonian history as a country.

71
00:04:13.756 --> 00:04:16.490
So after 1991,

72
00:04:16.491 --> 00:04:18.531
we became free of the Soviet Union.

73
00:04:18.532 --> 00:04:19.792
So I'm born in 1985,

74
00:04:19.972 --> 00:04:20.372
old guy,

75
00:04:20.413 --> 00:04:20.673
I know.

76
00:04:21.173 --> 00:04:24.215
But then all the walls of the

77
00:04:25.096 --> 00:04:26.257
Soviet Union collapsed.

78
00:04:26.357 --> 00:04:29.499
So all the things opened up for us also in Europe,

79
00:04:29.940 --> 00:04:30.800
in the Western world.

80
00:04:31.301 --> 00:04:35.644
So then there were some possibilities of Estonian players also to start.

81
00:04:35.784 --> 00:04:38.066
dreaming about a career outside of

82
00:04:38.506 --> 00:04:40.949
Estonia or outside of the Soviet Union.

83
00:04:41.685 --> 00:04:42.646
And for me,

84
00:04:42.766 --> 00:04:43.507
there's always been,

85
00:04:43.807 --> 00:04:45.448
I think it's the same also,

86
00:04:45.589 --> 00:04:46.609
like smaller nations,

87
00:04:46.629 --> 00:04:51.954
there's always this glass ceiling on top of us that we put on ourselves.

88
00:04:52.414 --> 00:04:52.875
And for me,

89
00:04:52.975 --> 00:04:53.555
the biggest,

90
00:04:53.856 --> 00:04:54.136
like...

91
00:04:55.110 --> 00:05:14.518
like mentor or hero was also Mark Puhm who played for Tabe County Sunderland so he was the first Estonian Estonian to make it outside and then I was also like okay you can have this career and I could dream bigger and he was the kind of the the

92
00:05:14.598 --> 00:05:23.146
guy who who made it possible the for the younger generations also to dream a little bit bigger I think that this was also really important for me.

93
00:05:23.626 --> 00:05:26.368
I played together with many players from Iceland.

94
00:05:26.708 --> 00:05:27.329
And for them,

95
00:05:27.469 --> 00:05:30.215
they had a similar effect when

96
00:05:30.835 --> 00:05:32.997
Eidur Gudjonsson made his career.

97
00:05:33.057 --> 00:05:33.577
So for them,

98
00:05:34.078 --> 00:05:35.479
when we played together,

99
00:05:35.539 --> 00:05:36.479
they said the same thing.

100
00:05:36.559 --> 00:05:37.380
Like before,

101
00:05:37.400 --> 00:05:42.424
we couldn't dream that somebody from Iceland could make it so far in football.

102
00:05:42.484 --> 00:05:42.864
And after

103
00:05:43.785 --> 00:05:44.885
Eidur Gudjonsson did it,

104
00:05:45.126 --> 00:05:46.507
they could also dream a little bit bigger.

105
00:05:46.567 --> 00:05:48.968
So that's why Mark Pum was also really important for me.

106
00:05:50.257 --> 00:05:50.477
But...

107
00:05:52.934 --> 00:05:56.133
When I was growing up and going through the youth system,

108
00:05:57.317 --> 00:06:03.586
I don't think we had like a even close level of the academies that are in Europe.

109
00:06:03.987 --> 00:06:04.467
We just,

110
00:06:05.428 --> 00:06:06.649
I had a really good coach,

111
00:06:06.849 --> 00:06:07.330
youth coach,

112
00:06:07.510 --> 00:06:08.791
who took us through many,

113
00:06:08.851 --> 00:06:09.392
many years.

114
00:06:09.452 --> 00:06:15.072
Then I made it to the A national team of Estonia when I was 17.

115
00:06:15.152 --> 00:06:15.673
And after that,

116
00:06:15.733 --> 00:06:16.914
things moved quickly.

117
00:06:17.442 --> 00:06:18.343
So I went to Norway,

118
00:06:18.423 --> 00:06:20.083
after Norway I went to Holland,

119
00:06:20.264 --> 00:06:22.205
Holland to Bundesliga,

120
00:06:22.365 --> 00:06:22.905
Bundesliga,

121
00:06:22.985 --> 00:06:24.466
Liverpool and so on.

122
00:06:25.222 --> 00:06:25.342
So

123
00:06:25.942 --> 00:06:27.623
I got out quite early,

124
00:06:27.663 --> 00:06:29.744
I just turned 18 and then I moved abroad.

125
00:06:30.145 --> 00:06:32.146
So this is basically also for Estonia.

126
00:06:32.762 --> 00:06:36.684
We don't have this kind of environment to offer for the youth players,

127
00:06:36.704 --> 00:06:39.746
so they need to really early go to the senior teams.

128
00:06:40.414 --> 00:06:41.274
You see the guys,

129
00:06:41.595 --> 00:06:42.355
our young players,

130
00:06:42.615 --> 00:06:42.935
16,

131
00:06:43.015 --> 00:06:43.496
17,

132
00:06:43.576 --> 00:06:44.916
playing in the highest league already.

133
00:06:45.056 --> 00:06:48.558
But we need to understand also when they turn 19 or 20,

134
00:06:49.258 --> 00:06:51.339
nobody's looking at them in Europe.

135
00:06:51.840 --> 00:06:53.040
Nobody's waiting for them.

136
00:06:53.180 --> 00:07:01.244
There's not going to be a 26-year-old Estonian guy who's still in the Estonian league going to go to Bundesliga or Eredivisie.

137
00:07:01.324 --> 00:07:05.154
So we need to push them also really early to the men's football.

138
00:07:06.166 --> 00:07:10.449
Or the other option is you go to academy somewhere when you're 16,

139
00:07:10.489 --> 00:07:10.909
17,

140
00:07:10.969 --> 00:07:13.058
18.

141
00:07:13.059 --> 00:07:14.459
I think it's really interesting because

142
00:07:15.471 --> 00:07:17.092
I met Ragnar two years ago in Riga.

143
00:07:17.132 --> 00:07:18.513
We had a conversation about this,

144
00:07:18.673 --> 00:07:19.634
about the league,

145
00:07:19.794 --> 00:07:20.394
the Baltics,

146
00:07:20.514 --> 00:07:20.954
the level,

147
00:07:20.974 --> 00:07:21.535
the pathway.

148
00:07:22.711 --> 00:07:25.973
And I think what you're seeing right now is really important.

149
00:07:26.710 --> 00:07:28.191
I believe about the talent.

150
00:07:28.231 --> 00:07:29.892
I think there is a lot of talent in your country,

151
00:07:30.736 --> 00:07:31.416
in the Baltics.

152
00:07:31.937 --> 00:07:34.018
I really like the player profile.

153
00:07:34.778 --> 00:07:37.596
and the attitude because they are working really,

154
00:07:37.636 --> 00:07:38.036
really hard.

155
00:07:38.256 --> 00:07:38.556
And

156
00:07:39.037 --> 00:07:43.912
I think it's really important to see you on board over there because

157
00:07:45.016 --> 00:07:47.258
I like your vision and the way you are talking.

158
00:07:47.278 --> 00:07:47.958
I think it's really,

159
00:07:48.498 --> 00:07:48.919
really good.

160
00:07:50.891 --> 00:07:57.015
So do you think in the next few years we can see more and more players from the Baltic football playing in the UK,

161
00:07:57.135 --> 00:07:57.596
for example?

162
00:07:59.328 --> 00:07:59.828
I hope so.

163
00:08:00.309 --> 00:08:02.510
And I think also if you talk about the Baltic...

164
00:08:03.571 --> 00:08:04.091
countries,

165
00:08:04.251 --> 00:08:06.212
politics states in that sense.

166
00:08:06.772 --> 00:08:07.453
I think Latvia,

167
00:08:08.233 --> 00:08:08.513
Gregory,

168
00:08:08.533 --> 00:08:09.814
you also work in Erefs,

169
00:08:11.355 --> 00:08:12.135
one of the biggest,

170
00:08:12.175 --> 00:08:14.276
if not the biggest club in Latvia.

171
00:08:14.357 --> 00:08:15.237
So you have two

172
00:08:15.657 --> 00:08:16.758
Erefs and Eftariga.

173
00:08:17.278 --> 00:08:22.101
They are also doing great steps compared to what it was 10 or 15 years ago.

174
00:08:22.701 --> 00:08:24.182
Same is happening in Lithuania,

175
00:08:24.282 --> 00:08:25.643
same little bit in Estonia.

176
00:08:25.763 --> 00:08:28.760
But I think we as a political country,

177
00:08:28.880 --> 00:08:31.442
we need to also come together and

178
00:08:31.918 --> 00:08:35.201
at least start the discussion about Baltic League.

179
00:08:35.441 --> 00:08:36.061
So for us,

180
00:08:36.986 --> 00:08:39.087
the big challenge is to be,

181
00:08:39.307 --> 00:08:42.296
I don't know,

182
00:08:42.597 --> 00:08:44.758
fancy enough that the fans come to the stadium.

183
00:08:44.918 --> 00:08:45.799
We have this problem.

184
00:08:45.839 --> 00:08:49.441
So we don't also have like revenue streams of

185
00:08:50.542 --> 00:08:51.543
TV broadcasting,

186
00:08:52.263 --> 00:08:53.164
not from the fans,

187
00:08:53.244 --> 00:08:55.025
but doing it together,

188
00:08:55.674 --> 00:08:59.293
that you can create a league when you play this kind of turbies,

189
00:08:59.793 --> 00:09:00.974
Riga against Tallinn.

190
00:09:01.714 --> 00:09:02.435
It's interesting.

191
00:09:02.695 --> 00:09:06.278
You can see also they do it in basketball and it is working.

192
00:09:06.338 --> 00:09:07.600
So at the moment,

193
00:09:07.640 --> 00:09:07.940
there's

194
00:09:09.793 --> 00:09:13.856
Latvian-Estonian Basketball League that is really attractive.

195
00:09:14.037 --> 00:09:15.518
They don't have Lithuania there because,

196
00:09:15.698 --> 00:09:15.878
okay,

197
00:09:15.958 --> 00:09:17.499
Lithuanian basketball is really big.

198
00:09:17.700 --> 00:09:18.761
But in football,

199
00:09:18.801 --> 00:09:23.485
we can combine those three countries and we can play those top games together.

200
00:09:23.725 --> 00:09:25.646
So if you're looking also Estonian or

201
00:09:26.147 --> 00:09:28.809
Latvian or Lithuanian clubs who play in the summer,

202
00:09:28.949 --> 00:09:29.710
this is it.

203
00:09:30.270 --> 00:09:33.972
Champions League playoffs or Europa League or Conference League.

204
00:09:35.172 --> 00:09:36.053
They are doing better,

205
00:09:36.353 --> 00:09:38.954
but you can see that they are missing this environment.

206
00:09:39.394 --> 00:09:44.308
Even when they have more games against better opponents,

207
00:09:44.348 --> 00:09:44.928
the better you get.

208
00:09:45.008 --> 00:09:46.529
It's always about the environment.

209
00:09:46.629 --> 00:09:50.875
So if you every weekend play against the top opponent,

210
00:09:52.616 --> 00:09:54.056
you get better yourself as well.

211
00:09:54.396 --> 00:09:56.477
If you only play four games in a year,

212
00:09:57.218 --> 00:09:58.058
that's not good enough.

213
00:09:58.773 --> 00:10:00.534
I think it would be a beautiful project.

214
00:10:01.782 --> 00:10:01.962
Yeah,

215
00:10:02.970 --> 00:10:03.390
for sure.

216
00:10:04.671 --> 00:10:05.571
I'm curious to know,

217
00:10:05.891 --> 00:10:10.533
obviously when you jumped away from Estonia at the early age and went to Norway,

218
00:10:12.861 --> 00:10:17.114
what was that like as a footballer?

219
00:10:17.134 --> 00:10:19.535
Was that a massive step up from what you were used to?

220
00:10:19.655 --> 00:10:23.720
Did you have to improve physically or did you easily fit in there?

221
00:10:24.916 --> 00:10:25.516
So yeah,

222
00:10:26.017 --> 00:10:27.237
my interesting...

223
00:10:27.793 --> 00:10:46.088
story is going to Norway I think it's now time flies 22 years ago and looking what kind of football Norway played 22 years ago and what we also saw now in the World Cup it's a little bit different so during that time all

224
00:10:46.089 --> 00:10:55.921
those players were like really strong physically strong but now if you look at Norway's national team how good they played they're still kind of

225
00:10:56.121 --> 00:10:57.522
physically capable you know

226
00:10:58.142 --> 00:11:19.677
I'm not even talking about Elling Holland who is uh who is a machine but also the other players they still have the physicality the height but they are more technical so during those 22 years when I was there and now they made a big change of how they are producing those players so this is like really interesting but for me to go to Norway of course it was this

227
00:11:19.737 --> 00:11:24.801
game was quite physical so I needed to improve in that area but I went to you

228
00:11:25.861 --> 00:11:29.403
Quite good club where they also developed that side.

229
00:11:29.483 --> 00:11:32.864
And I had the luck of this one year playing together,

230
00:11:33.184 --> 00:11:33.905
for example,

231
00:11:35.233 --> 00:11:35.813
two players.

232
00:11:36.093 --> 00:11:40.907
Stefan Iversen was also well known in the UK and Ronny Jonsson.

233
00:11:41.408 --> 00:11:42.068
With Ronny Jonsson,

234
00:11:42.088 --> 00:11:43.429
I was just six months.

235
00:11:44.049 --> 00:11:50.612
But being alongside also with those type of players and what they can teach you or coach you.

236
00:11:50.712 --> 00:11:52.412
So this was also really valuable.

237
00:11:52.473 --> 00:11:53.253
and there was already...

238
00:11:53.821 --> 00:11:56.724
little connection with the

239
00:11:57.608 --> 00:11:59.130
English Premier League.

240
00:12:00.114 --> 00:12:03.597
But this one year was really for me growing up.

241
00:12:05.182 --> 00:12:12.152
You are still a kid when you are 17 and just turned 18 and I needed to grow up really fast.

242
00:12:13.293 --> 00:12:15.455
I didn't have the time to somebody telling you,

243
00:12:15.515 --> 00:12:15.655
yeah,

244
00:12:15.775 --> 00:12:21.060
you have two years to adapt here and then grow up and get your shit together.

245
00:12:23.109 --> 00:12:25.871
Do you adapt or then somebody else comes and do it?

246
00:12:26.291 --> 00:12:26.572
You know,

247
00:12:26.652 --> 00:12:28.093
it's the football world.

248
00:12:28.793 --> 00:12:29.374
It's nice.

249
00:12:29.574 --> 00:12:29.854
You know,

250
00:12:29.934 --> 00:12:32.180
we always see this good part.

251
00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:37.708
But the other part is also how many people actually want to become professional football players.

252
00:12:37.768 --> 00:12:42.319
I think every time or every moment,

253
00:12:42.579 --> 00:12:43.760
there's like 250,

254
00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:50.361
300 million people who want to become professional football players who are training for four times a week,

255
00:12:50.401 --> 00:12:50.661
you know.

256
00:12:51.717 --> 00:12:52.238
age groups.

257
00:12:52.638 --> 00:12:55.659
So the competition to become a professional footballer,

258
00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:58.016
I think if you put it in the numbers,

259
00:12:58.076 --> 00:12:59.037
it's just crazy.

260
00:12:59.497 --> 00:13:06.867
So you need to mature also really fast and understand what are your possibilities.

261
00:13:07.608 --> 00:13:08.668
And if you don't perform,

262
00:13:08.708 --> 00:13:11.069
then somebody else will come and take your place.

263
00:13:12.998 --> 00:13:14.038
It's a cutthroat world.

264
00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:16.959
Obviously from

265
00:13:17.319 --> 00:13:20.361
Norway, you got your way over to the Netherlands.

266
00:13:21.438 --> 00:13:22.599
How did that come about?

267
00:13:25.353 --> 00:13:28.944
Was it luck or was there a coach that you followed over there?

268
00:13:28.945 --> 00:13:32.307
I'm just curious how you went from Norway straight to the Netherlands.

269
00:13:33.344 --> 00:13:35.186
So before I went to Norway,

270
00:13:35.386 --> 00:13:36.407
I was like

271
00:13:38.561 --> 00:13:46.712
17. I had a lot of test periods because the world was totally different than it is nowadays.

272
00:13:47.901 --> 00:13:48.301
Nowadays,

273
00:13:48.321 --> 00:13:49.842
top football is all about the data.

274
00:13:50.082 --> 00:13:51.362
You have your GPS,

275
00:13:52.442 --> 00:13:54.943
all the scouting is done on this

276
00:13:55.523 --> 00:13:57.184
Excel or on the computer.

277
00:13:57.704 --> 00:13:58.344
In the old days,

278
00:13:58.945 --> 00:13:59.165
yes,

279
00:13:59.405 --> 00:14:00.605
there's an interesting player,

280
00:14:00.785 --> 00:14:02.005
you need to travel there.

281
00:14:02.346 --> 00:14:05.507
Because I was testing also in Amsterdam Ajax,

282
00:14:05.867 --> 00:14:06.427
Feyenoord,

283
00:14:07.299 --> 00:14:07.599
and

284
00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:11.080
I was also in Real Sociedad.

285
00:14:11.976 --> 00:14:13.657
And then when I was in Holland...

286
00:14:13.977 --> 00:14:17.119
So one of the coaches went to work in a smaller club.

287
00:14:17.219 --> 00:14:20.782
So he knew me during that period when I was testing there.

288
00:14:20.882 --> 00:14:22.403
And it was interesting.

289
00:14:22.543 --> 00:14:24.901
And I went another test period there.

290
00:14:25.021 --> 00:14:26.682
So that's how it happened.

291
00:14:27.143 --> 00:14:30.505
But because I was already one year in Norway,

292
00:14:30.585 --> 00:14:33.283
so that gave them kind of certainty that

293
00:14:33.843 --> 00:14:34.744
I have this quality.

294
00:14:35.024 --> 00:14:38.287
And I also played already for the A national team in Estonia.

295
00:14:38.387 --> 00:14:40.208
So that's how it got.

296
00:14:40.288 --> 00:14:41.889
But my seven years.

297
00:14:42.433 --> 00:14:42.954
In Holland,

298
00:14:42.974 --> 00:14:44.075
if I'm looking back now,

299
00:14:44.175 --> 00:14:45.796
my career is finished,

300
00:14:45.797 --> 00:14:45.916
so

301
00:14:47.205 --> 00:14:50.608
I can look back and talk about many things.

302
00:14:52.514 --> 00:15:08.412
understand what kind of influence different people had in your career you know when you're still a player you just do your thing and don't think about what happened in the before so for me the first coach was Peter Boss who has been also quite good coach in

303
00:15:08.452 --> 00:15:14.885
Feyenoord in Ajax and he was also I think was it in Olympique Lyon or Marseille?

304
00:15:14.886 --> 00:15:15.746
Lyon correct yeah.

305
00:15:16.026 --> 00:15:18.692
Yeah so he was my first coach he said like

306
00:15:19.425 --> 00:15:21.110
Ragnar you're my guy

307
00:15:21.450 --> 00:15:22.531
even if you make a mistake,

308
00:15:22.851 --> 00:15:23.412
you will play.

309
00:15:23.532 --> 00:15:25.193
So this kind of confidence he gave,

310
00:15:25.473 --> 00:15:26.614
he was a really good coach.

311
00:15:27.434 --> 00:15:27.895
After that,

312
00:15:28.135 --> 00:15:29.296
when I went to AZ ALKMAR,

313
00:15:30.096 --> 00:15:32.558
my first coach was Louis van Gaal,

314
00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:33.218
Ronald Koeman,

315
00:15:33.478 --> 00:15:34.199
Tika Advokat.

316
00:15:35.492 --> 00:15:38.614
So those kind of coaches when you're so young.

317
00:15:38.654 --> 00:15:45.499
And it's crazy to think that I was so fortunate to be under so many good managers during my career.

318
00:15:48.020 --> 00:15:49.821
And you could have played maybe for Rangers,

319
00:15:49.822 --> 00:15:49.861
eh?

320
00:15:49.862 --> 00:15:49.981
Yeah.

321
00:15:50.041 --> 00:15:50.422
Tika Advokat.

322
00:15:50.423 --> 00:15:50.622
Yeah.

323
00:15:52.126 --> 00:15:57.385
Was it true that Van Gaal changed position for you from midfield to centre-half?

324
00:16:00.050 --> 00:16:01.430
So one part that I was,

325
00:16:02.739 --> 00:16:03.499
when I was younger,

326
00:16:04.259 --> 00:16:07.061
I was the perfect player for every coach.

327
00:16:07.081 --> 00:16:07.361
You know,

328
00:16:07.381 --> 00:16:11.110
he can put me on as a left-back,

329
00:16:11.451 --> 00:16:12.191
as a number six.

330
00:16:13.011 --> 00:16:16.553
I don't say that I played good any of those positions,

331
00:16:16.713 --> 00:16:17.954
but they had to...

332
00:16:18.598 --> 00:16:20.939
They had the possibility to move me around and

333
00:16:21.339 --> 00:16:23.440
I could play on a decent level.

334
00:16:23.441 --> 00:16:25.381
So I played a lot of different positions.

335
00:16:26.018 --> 00:16:28.759
And most of the time I played as a left back.

336
00:16:29.619 --> 00:16:32.921
So when I was 23 and then Van Gaal.

337
00:16:34.781 --> 00:16:38.843
So we had this last meeting of will I sign to Aziz Alkmaar or not.

338
00:16:38.903 --> 00:16:41.724
So I had this one-on-one meeting with Louis Van Gaal.

339
00:16:41.844 --> 00:16:43.205
And he's sitting there,

340
00:16:43.225 --> 00:16:43.525
you know,

341
00:16:43.625 --> 00:16:45.994
he's like a...

342
00:16:46.114 --> 00:16:50.774
big boss type of manager and he's looking at me you're a center back

343
00:16:52.175 --> 00:16:56.939
I was like okay if you want me to be I can be no problem so after that so

344
00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:04.394
I started playing only as a center back so then my career made a lot of progress and I was kind of

345
00:17:05.042 --> 00:17:14.478
I found my position so to say so yeah I owe it to Louis van Gaal as well that my career after was 23 you

346
00:17:14.686 --> 00:17:16.207
took big steps forward.

347
00:17:18.403 --> 00:17:19.584
What was he like as a guy?

348
00:17:19.944 --> 00:17:22.741
He always comes across as a scary,

349
00:17:23.021 --> 00:17:23.902
old-school guy.

350
00:17:24.742 --> 00:17:26.303
Was he actually like that in person?

351
00:17:28.320 --> 00:17:28.460
Yeah,

352
00:17:28.520 --> 00:17:37.256
I think it's always a difference also where and which club the big talks are going to be.

353
00:17:37.356 --> 00:17:38.416
So Azit Alkmaar,

354
00:17:39.601 --> 00:17:41.750
also in Dutch standards,

355
00:17:41.870 --> 00:17:42.230
It's not...

356
00:17:42.310 --> 00:17:43.251
the biggest clubs.

357
00:17:43.331 --> 00:17:44.452
So when he came there,

358
00:17:45.032 --> 00:17:46.013
so he was,

359
00:17:47.026 --> 00:17:48.848
I wouldn't say that he was bigger than the club,

360
00:17:48.988 --> 00:17:53.351
but he was a big name for that level of a club.

361
00:17:53.411 --> 00:17:55.033
So he was really the boss there.

362
00:17:55.193 --> 00:17:57.014
So you could feel it also.

363
00:17:57.535 --> 00:17:58.896
So he was making many,

364
00:17:59.196 --> 00:18:01.818
many decisions where normally in the bigger clubs,

365
00:18:02.659 --> 00:18:04.641
the manager doesn't take.

366
00:18:05.193 --> 00:18:06.635
So in that sense,

367
00:18:06.636 --> 00:18:06.955
he was,

368
00:18:07.615 --> 00:18:07.816
yes,

369
00:18:09.136 --> 00:18:11.198
he was a big guy there and a mate.

370
00:18:11.398 --> 00:18:12.298
a lot of decisions.

371
00:18:12.378 --> 00:18:13.707
But you have to say,

372
00:18:13.787 --> 00:18:16.207
we became champion of Holland under him.

373
00:18:16.387 --> 00:18:16.948
And after that,

374
00:18:17.548 --> 00:18:18.688
he left to Bayern Munich,

375
00:18:19.068 --> 00:18:22.109
where his journey was not so successful,

376
00:18:22.149 --> 00:18:22.389
maybe.

377
00:18:26.806 --> 00:18:30.247
But what was Koeman an advocate like?

378
00:18:30.287 --> 00:18:32.128
Were they completely different characters?

379
00:18:32.208 --> 00:18:33.768
Or how did you get on with those guys?

380
00:18:36.257 --> 00:18:36.417
With

381
00:18:36.777 --> 00:18:37.857
Ronald Koeman,

382
00:18:40.170 --> 00:18:40.930
he was a good coach,

383
00:18:40.950 --> 00:18:41.070
you

384
00:18:41.110 --> 00:18:43.291
But in Alkmaar,

385
00:18:45.027 --> 00:18:46.007
his journey was,

386
00:18:47.284 --> 00:18:47.924
I would have to say,

387
00:18:48.004 --> 00:18:48.544
six months.

388
00:18:49.832 --> 00:18:50.132
And

389
00:18:51.093 --> 00:18:58.215
I truly believe that Ronan Koeman is a perfect national team coach rather than a club coach.

390
00:18:58.872 --> 00:19:00.312
So in the national team,

391
00:19:01.052 --> 00:19:01.393
he has...

392
00:19:02.821 --> 00:19:03.921
Because for me,

393
00:19:04.041 --> 00:19:04.441
at least,

394
00:19:04.461 --> 00:19:05.922
they're two separate things.

395
00:19:06.102 --> 00:19:09.083
to be a national team coach or club coach.

396
00:19:09.203 --> 00:19:11.264
So a national team coach gets the squad,

397
00:19:13.177 --> 00:19:14.938
whatever the situation you have.

398
00:19:15.598 --> 00:19:17.159
They train almost,

399
00:19:18.055 --> 00:19:18.415
I don't know,

400
00:19:18.883 --> 00:19:22.585
the national team break is altogether maybe 30 days in a year.

401
00:19:23.165 --> 00:19:23.786
So other

402
00:19:24.566 --> 00:19:26.967
335 days they are with their home club.

403
00:19:27.375 --> 00:19:28.716
So all the developments,

404
00:19:28.936 --> 00:19:32.017
all the good things or bad things come from the club.

405
00:19:32.397 --> 00:19:33.618
We train every day.

406
00:19:34.066 --> 00:19:35.088
As a national team coach,

407
00:19:35.108 --> 00:19:35.889
you get them together,

408
00:19:36.510 --> 00:19:37.312
you motivate them,

409
00:19:37.392 --> 00:19:38.934
you do technically good work,

410
00:19:39.035 --> 00:19:43.282
and then there's the team spirit that carries you and the quality that you get into the squad.

411
00:19:44.036 --> 00:19:45.517
So he was really good in that.

412
00:19:46.398 --> 00:20:01.360
Maybe he wasn't so good of a club coach in that sense of developing players because we still had a young squad and maybe this was the difference for me with Ronald Koeman.

413
00:20:01.828 --> 00:20:04.090
I don't say he's a bad club coach,

414
00:20:04.210 --> 00:20:07.801
but he's a better national team coach.

415
00:20:09.049 --> 00:20:11.611
And Dick Watergat came in after Ronald

416
00:20:12.191 --> 00:20:12.772
Koeman, So.

417
00:20:13.668 --> 00:20:14.548
He was really strict.

418
00:20:15.193 --> 00:20:17.013
I think his nickname is also the

419
00:20:17.354 --> 00:20:17.734
General.

420
00:20:19.010 --> 00:20:22.612
Yes. So we were having a bad spell in the season,

421
00:20:22.672 --> 00:20:25.233
so they parted ways with Ron Koeman,

422
00:20:25.293 --> 00:20:27.214
so we were not doing good in the league.

423
00:20:27.215 --> 00:20:29.667
So he was the one who had to save the season.

424
00:20:29.707 --> 00:20:35.661
So he came in really strict and he got the job done.

425
00:20:37.450 --> 00:20:38.430
You never played under Dijk,

426
00:20:38.490 --> 00:20:39.190
did you?

427
00:20:39.351 --> 00:20:39.471
No,

428
00:20:39.472 --> 00:20:40.891
I came after Alec McLeish.

429
00:20:41.672 --> 00:20:42.452
That's right,

430
00:20:42.453 --> 00:20:42.832
Alec McLeish.

431
00:20:43.900 --> 00:20:48.509
I was just curious if Dick was living up to his little general.

432
00:20:48.510 --> 00:20:50.606
I heard.

433
00:20:50.607 --> 00:20:51.906
I heard his nickname.

434
00:20:54.087 --> 00:20:54.987
He's a madman.

435
00:20:56.592 --> 00:20:57.932
But obviously after

436
00:20:58.312 --> 00:21:00.113
Holland, you went to

437
00:21:00.473 --> 00:21:02.521
Germany. Yes.

438
00:21:03.041 --> 00:21:07.646
Was that your own choice to go there or was there things going on at the club,

439
00:21:07.766 --> 00:21:09.207
maybe not being as successful?

440
00:21:09.967 --> 00:21:11.347
What led to the move to Germany?

441
00:21:12.344 --> 00:21:12.624
so the

442
00:21:14.020 --> 00:21:15.349
I think that part,

443
00:21:15.389 --> 00:21:17.249
so after Di Cato got left,

444
00:21:17.610 --> 00:21:19.350
there was another coach as well,

445
00:21:19.591 --> 00:21:20.571
Gert-Jan Verbeek.

446
00:21:22.892 --> 00:21:23.552
And this is also,

447
00:21:23.752 --> 00:21:24.072
I think,

448
00:21:25.357 --> 00:21:26.157
looking back things,

449
00:21:26.177 --> 00:21:26.897
of course,

450
00:21:27.366 --> 00:21:35.097
we can always be those guys who say big words and all the bad things are good for something,

451
00:21:35.497 --> 00:21:35.677
blah,

452
00:21:35.678 --> 00:21:38.398
But looking back at my career,

453
00:21:38.518 --> 00:21:39.779
I had a really low point.

454
00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:41.220
I didn't play in Holland.

455
00:21:42.120 --> 00:21:44.601
I wasn't the starter under a new coach.

456
00:21:45.510 --> 00:21:47.631
And it was almost a whole season.

457
00:21:48.091 --> 00:21:51.933
And I kind of always had the feeling that if you don't play in Holland,

458
00:21:52.153 --> 00:21:56.316
you don't get a chance to go to the Bundesliga or other top five leagues.

459
00:21:56.948 --> 00:21:57.348
But for me,

460
00:21:57.368 --> 00:21:58.049
it was always like,

461
00:21:58.050 --> 00:21:58.209
yeah,

462
00:21:58.229 --> 00:21:59.069
it's a bad situation,

463
00:21:59.089 --> 00:22:02.631
but I need to always keep on training better,

464
00:22:02.891 --> 00:22:07.014
always be there if I even get those 10-15 minutes of playing time.

465
00:22:07.854 --> 00:22:10.075
And I was able to do that one year.

466
00:22:10.556 --> 00:22:11.176
the route.

467
00:22:11.456 --> 00:22:21.263
reward after that was that I got the chance to go to Bundesliga and this was also that they kind of saw my mentality that they were sure that

468
00:22:21.995 --> 00:22:38.855
I have the playing qualities maybe not at the moment in AZ Alkmaar but he's there you know and he's always training hard and all those things and that kind of earned me the chance to go to Bundesliga of course it wasn't that they

469
00:22:38.915 --> 00:22:39.976
took me in as a

470
00:22:40.652 --> 00:22:41.673
first XI starter,

471
00:22:42.013 --> 00:22:43.475
but after a couple of months,

472
00:22:43.875 --> 00:22:49.140
I fought my way into the first XI and I had amazing four years there,

473
00:22:49.829 --> 00:22:58.851
what was the kind of the high point of earning a contract in Liverpool.

474
00:23:00.264 --> 00:23:08.407
So this is the story of how I ended up in Bundesliga from a really low moment in my career where I didn't play a lot.

475
00:23:09.956 --> 00:23:12.529
the club took a chance with me and

476
00:23:12.929 --> 00:23:24.803
I was always there that even if the situation was bad that I was still giving my all even for those 10-15 minutes when I got the blank time and still training and being ready for the team.

477
00:23:27.083 --> 00:23:38.472
Yeah it must be hard when you're left out not playing every week and you're just like but obviously you went to Germany what was the differences?

478
00:23:39.236 --> 00:23:44.174
Or was there any major difference from playing in the Netherlands over to Germany?

479
00:23:44.935 --> 00:23:46.575
What's the standards like in terms of,

480
00:23:47.124 --> 00:23:50.185
is it more physical in Germany or better technically?

481
00:23:50.585 --> 00:23:54.310
Was there anything different from the Netherlands?

482
00:23:55.411 --> 00:23:55.551
Yeah,

483
00:23:55.591 --> 00:23:55.951
I think,

484
00:23:57.487 --> 00:23:58.448
I don't say all there.

485
00:24:00.356 --> 00:24:07.141
top clubs in the league of course we always talk about the top five and of course you have like Portuguese league,

486
00:24:07.461 --> 00:24:19.478
Dutch league and all of those leagues close by there's not a major difference that is it's like Eredivisie to Bundesliga is miles difference but

487
00:24:19.998 --> 00:24:27.856
I think the Bundesliga is of course the structure it's like every team every club operates like

488
00:24:28.708 --> 00:24:30.009
German machinery like

489
00:24:30.450 --> 00:24:31.471
Mercedes-Benz or

490
00:24:31.851 --> 00:24:35.439
BMW. And this is also doing the meters,

491
00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:35.719
you know,

492
00:24:35.979 --> 00:24:36.800
running on the field.

493
00:24:36.940 --> 00:24:40.123
Every guy needs to hit those targets.

494
00:24:40.124 --> 00:24:40.884
And it is,

495
00:24:41.364 --> 00:24:41.945
in that sense,

496
00:24:42.005 --> 00:24:42.666
more physical.

497
00:24:42.766 --> 00:24:44.828
It's not like physical of like,

498
00:24:45.569 --> 00:24:45.909
I don't know,

499
00:24:45.969 --> 00:24:46.570
in England,

500
00:24:46.590 --> 00:24:47.350
like championship,

501
00:24:47.370 --> 00:24:47.611
you know,

502
00:24:47.651 --> 00:24:48.812
it's a physical league.

503
00:24:49.751 --> 00:24:50.171
Physically,

504
00:24:50.172 --> 00:24:55.013
in that sense of stamina and gegenpressing and all those things.

505
00:24:55.093 --> 00:24:59.255
So there was a difference because Dutch Eredivisie is a fun league.

506
00:24:59.394 --> 00:25:00.674
If you're looking at the scores,

507
00:25:00.675 --> 00:25:00.974
you know,

508
00:25:01.475 --> 00:25:05.496
strikers are always the ones who are on the spotlight,

509
00:25:06.036 --> 00:25:07.397
scoring a lot of goals.

510
00:25:07.776 --> 00:25:09.197
It's a nice league to watch.

511
00:25:09.894 --> 00:25:10.714
But I think that,

512
00:25:11.313 --> 00:25:13.574
I don't say that they are bad defenders,

513
00:25:13.634 --> 00:25:16.255
but all the defenders are also like forward.

514
00:25:17.891 --> 00:25:31.832
thinking you know everybody wants to play with the ball so that means taking more risk and this is also a little bit different in Bundesliga already of course in Premier League really extreme in Serie A where I also played so

515
00:25:32.572 --> 00:25:46.175
I think there's differences in the league and also that in Dutch Eredivisie you play with a lot of young players as well so this brings this difference to the table as well so all the young players

516
00:25:46.495 --> 00:25:47.996
even if they are most talented,

517
00:25:49.708 --> 00:25:54.030
you're also still missing some kind of structure and they are still in the learning phase.

518
00:25:55.914 --> 00:26:02.561
You moved on to Liverpool from there and I believe you played against Liverpool just before you signed on,

519
00:26:02.620 --> 00:26:02.801
right?

520
00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:06.221
That was the year that was in

521
00:26:08.482 --> 00:26:12.138
2015. So,

522
00:26:12.874 --> 00:26:14.915
where I played in Bundesliga after Auschwitz.

523
00:26:15.524 --> 00:26:18.265
It's not a big team in Bundesliga as well.

524
00:26:18.546 --> 00:26:21.569
It's now in the middle of the table always,

525
00:26:22.229 --> 00:26:22.389
many,

526
00:26:22.449 --> 00:26:22.990
many years now.

527
00:26:23.490 --> 00:26:31.573
But I think we had the third lowest budget and we got the fifth place in Bundesliga.

528
00:26:31.633 --> 00:26:34.695
So that qualified us into the Europa League,

529
00:26:35.364 --> 00:26:42.330
where we went through the group stage and then had the possibility to play against Liverpool in the

530
00:26:42.790 --> 00:26:43.371
Europa League.

531
00:26:44.151 --> 00:26:46.194
So this was also one connection.

532
00:26:46.333 --> 00:26:48.896
Other connection is always with me,

533
00:26:49.476 --> 00:26:50.057
with Jurgen Klopp.

534
00:26:50.917 --> 00:26:51.036
So

535
00:26:52.138 --> 00:26:54.840
I think it was Jurgen's last year in Borussia Dortmund.

536
00:26:55.431 --> 00:27:00.480
So his last year in Borussia Dortmund wasn't the biggest success.

537
00:27:01.075 --> 00:27:10.305
But there was also that we had small contact that he wanted me to go to Borussia.

538
00:27:11.207 --> 00:27:12.207
But he's...

539
00:27:13.235 --> 00:27:33.187
situation changed quite fast you know his last year wasn't successful and then they ended the journey there so we were in talks as well that maybe I will join Borussia Dortmund it didn't happen because a lot of things happened Jürgen left and so it was off the table so I thought okay it's

540
00:27:33.286 --> 00:27:41.823
over and it was a big surprise for me when it happened together with Liverpool and Jürgen in Liverpool.

541
00:27:43.667 --> 00:27:46.349
And that's a massive move.

542
00:27:46.350 --> 00:27:46.949
At that point,

543
00:27:47.009 --> 00:27:50.423
did you think the kind of big move was off?

544
00:27:50.543 --> 00:27:53.225
Because you were 30 when you moved to Liverpool,

545
00:27:53.264 --> 00:27:53.486
right?

546
00:27:54.813 --> 00:27:55.655
Did you think that was,

547
00:27:56.174 --> 00:27:58.356
when the Brucey Adoptment deal didn't go ahead,

548
00:27:58.376 --> 00:27:58.795
were you like,

549
00:27:59.956 --> 00:28:04.266
I'm not going to make it to the kind of big teams?

550
00:28:05.115 --> 00:28:05.755
Of course,

551
00:28:05.956 --> 00:28:06.255
for me,

552
00:28:07.148 --> 00:28:08.589
and still when I'm thinking back,

553
00:28:08.988 --> 00:28:13.191
when I heard the news from my agent at the club,

554
00:28:13.784 --> 00:28:18.901
that is interested in Premier League is Liverpool.

555
00:28:18.981 --> 00:28:20.421
It still blows my mind.

556
00:28:20.941 --> 00:28:21.242
But

557
00:28:23.563 --> 00:28:24.763
I still kept on working,

558
00:28:24.862 --> 00:28:27.752
even if I was in footballer years,

559
00:28:27.792 --> 00:28:28.552
I was old.

560
00:28:29.649 --> 00:28:29.869
Then

561
00:28:30.889 --> 00:28:32.769
I had a dream when I was 14 years old,

562
00:28:32.830 --> 00:28:33.130
you know,

563
00:28:33.330 --> 00:28:34.689
because my hero was Mark Poom.

564
00:28:34.729 --> 00:28:36.650
He made it to England,

565
00:28:36.651 --> 00:28:37.351
to Premier League,

566
00:28:37.710 --> 00:28:39.952
that I will one day make it to Premier League.

567
00:28:40.188 --> 00:28:40.747
to England.

568
00:28:40.767 --> 00:28:43.109
So that was my dream when I was a 14-year-old boy.

569
00:28:43.945 --> 00:28:48.887
And still I remember when I was playing in Augsburg in Bundesliga when I was 29,

570
00:28:48.907 --> 00:28:53.781
I was doing extra work with a private,

571
00:28:54.061 --> 00:28:54.901
not the private coach,

572
00:28:54.941 --> 00:28:58.543
but doing some extra work as well to make this dream happen.

573
00:28:59.404 --> 00:28:59.764
And

574
00:29:00.384 --> 00:29:03.905
I was still hoping even when I was getting older and older that I still have a chance,

575
00:29:03.925 --> 00:29:05.366
but I never gave up this dream.

576
00:29:05.958 --> 00:29:08.459
So this was just amazing.

577
00:29:09.631 --> 00:29:11.133
Many amazing things came together,

578
00:29:11.433 --> 00:29:12.755
and especially to be part of

579
00:29:13.094 --> 00:29:14.755
Liverpool when I was 30 years old.

580
00:29:14.756 --> 00:29:23.585
I don't think there's been any transfer after me that Liverpool is doing that kind of business,

581
00:29:23.645 --> 00:29:29.549
that paying for a 30-year player who doesn't have a resale value.

582
00:29:30.434 --> 00:29:34.797
So this was also something nice for me,

583
00:29:34.938 --> 00:29:37.139
that they saw this possibility.

584
00:29:38.530 --> 00:29:39.631
with my playing time,

585
00:29:40.471 --> 00:29:41.272
in those two years,

586
00:29:41.692 --> 00:29:43.513
I had a three-year contract,

587
00:29:43.533 --> 00:29:45.554
but in those two years or three years that

588
00:29:46.374 --> 00:29:51.157
I will be able to pay this transfer fee with my playing time,

589
00:29:51.217 --> 00:29:53.899
not that they sell on value.

590
00:29:54.179 --> 00:29:54.539
Of course,

591
00:29:55.139 --> 00:29:55.800
they sold me to

592
00:29:56.500 --> 00:29:57.561
Galleria Calcio as well,

593
00:29:57.601 --> 00:30:00.602
so it wasn't a bad deal for them later on as well.

594
00:30:01.639 --> 00:30:02.860
But of course,

595
00:30:03.020 --> 00:30:06.121
30-year-old guy to come into Liverpool,

596
00:30:06.342 --> 00:30:07.002
so this was...

597
00:30:08.046 --> 00:30:10.387
Something incredible for me as well.

598
00:30:12.047 --> 00:30:12.268
Well,

599
00:30:12.588 --> 00:30:12.868
you know,

600
00:30:12.948 --> 00:30:13.568
for the fact,

601
00:30:14.348 --> 00:30:17.110
first signing for this football club is just amazing.

602
00:30:17.930 --> 00:30:18.971
Playing for Liverpool,

603
00:30:19.011 --> 00:30:19.291
I think,

604
00:30:19.311 --> 00:30:19.951
is another thing.

605
00:30:20.663 --> 00:30:20.843
Yes.

606
00:30:21.144 --> 00:30:22.004
Different factors.

607
00:30:23.989 --> 00:30:25.529
We are talking about the DNA,

608
00:30:25.669 --> 00:30:25.950
you know,

609
00:30:26.030 --> 00:30:28.651
and everything beyond the scene.

610
00:30:29.391 --> 00:30:30.012
Why it makes

611
00:30:30.560 --> 00:30:31.480
Han feel so special.

612
00:30:34.529 --> 00:30:34.809
For you,

613
00:30:34.869 --> 00:30:36.430
what will be your best memories?

614
00:30:38.916 --> 00:30:41.057
from these two to three years at Liverpool?

615
00:30:42.533 --> 00:30:44.435
If there is one in your mind right now.

616
00:30:49.744 --> 00:30:50.184
Of course,

617
00:30:52.621 --> 00:30:53.302
Anfield,

618
00:30:55.186 --> 00:30:56.607
all those games when you play this,

619
00:30:57.468 --> 00:30:58.428
of course there's difference,

620
00:30:58.448 --> 00:30:59.909
but always when you play in Anfield,

621
00:31:00.510 --> 00:31:01.451
this is something extra.

622
00:31:01.751 --> 00:31:02.531
For me personally,

623
00:31:02.571 --> 00:31:02.892
because

624
00:31:03.836 --> 00:31:05.357
I made my debut...

625
00:31:07.014 --> 00:31:08.676
for Liverpool in Premier League.

626
00:31:08.716 --> 00:31:09.737
That was a away game.

627
00:31:10.245 --> 00:31:12.027
First game of the season 2016,

628
00:31:12.028 --> 00:31:13.349
we played Arsenal away.

629
00:31:13.529 --> 00:31:15.751
So that was the game where Sadio Mane,

630
00:31:15.931 --> 00:31:18.174
I think he scored three goals or was it two?

631
00:31:18.254 --> 00:31:20.516
So he killed Arsenal there.

632
00:31:20.517 --> 00:31:21.657
So that was my debut.

633
00:31:21.658 --> 00:31:22.138
Of course,

634
00:31:22.139 --> 00:31:27.375
this is always for me also kind of a milestone that

635
00:31:27.815 --> 00:31:28.436
I remember.

636
00:31:28.496 --> 00:31:29.837
But playing...

637
00:31:31.642 --> 00:31:48.664
at Anfield of course I had this opportunity to play there as an opponent as well in Europa League where we lost to Liverpool there in Anfield you know this is a main unbelievable difference to play in Anfield as a home team and

638
00:31:49.065 --> 00:31:52.207
as a away team so I experienced both of them and

639
00:31:52.588 --> 00:31:54.781
I have to say that this

640
00:31:55.262 --> 00:31:59.786
Anfield is like a 12th player so this atmosphere and this

641
00:32:00.934 --> 00:32:02.575
fire from the fans.

642
00:32:02.595 --> 00:32:03.535
And of course,

643
00:32:03.536 --> 00:32:08.484
I was lucky enough to be in this team also on this

644
00:32:08.984 --> 00:32:10.545
Jurgen Klopp's building years,

645
00:32:10.705 --> 00:32:11.125
let's say.

646
00:32:12.053 --> 00:32:15.790
I was stupid enough to leave and not winning the Champions League.

647
00:32:15.791 --> 00:32:17.451
So if I would have stayed one more year,

648
00:32:17.491 --> 00:32:18.751
I would have won the Champions League.

649
00:32:18.752 --> 00:32:21.132
So I could only manage the Champions League final.

650
00:32:22.432 --> 00:32:25.593
I made the same mistake like you when I went to Rangers.

651
00:32:26.353 --> 00:32:26.553
But

652
00:32:26.993 --> 00:32:28.194
I went for Flores and Rangel.

653
00:32:28.574 --> 00:32:28.774
Yes.

654
00:32:29.334 --> 00:32:30.075
This is the past,

655
00:32:30.535 --> 00:32:31.716
what we need to live with.

656
00:32:32.276 --> 00:32:34.998
So as a person,

657
00:32:35.118 --> 00:32:36.680
but for me to be part of it,

658
00:32:36.681 --> 00:32:38.641
2016 until 2018,

659
00:32:38.741 --> 00:32:43.324
so this was really like the building years of Liverpool under Jurgen Klopp.

660
00:32:43.524 --> 00:32:45.646
So I could be part of that still.

661
00:32:46.338 --> 00:32:46.458
Me,

662
00:32:47.179 --> 00:32:47.699
personally,

663
00:32:49.312 --> 00:32:51.793
I feel really entitled and I could see,

664
00:32:52.014 --> 00:32:56.417
so I was old enough also to see how Jurgen and his staff and the club,

665
00:32:57.137 --> 00:32:58.398
I'm not only talking about...

666
00:32:58.698 --> 00:32:59.939
Jürgen and the first team,

667
00:32:59.959 --> 00:33:01.100
but as a club,

668
00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:07.303
how they were building up this club and doing the steps to become one of the best,

669
00:33:07.703 --> 00:33:09.304
one of the most interesting,

670
00:33:09.404 --> 00:33:11.165
fascinating teams,

671
00:33:11.285 --> 00:33:12.426
clubs in the world,

672
00:33:13.034 --> 00:33:17.417
where it was this kind of lower moment in Liverpool's history.

673
00:33:17.497 --> 00:33:22.300
So I could be part of it two years to see how Jürgen also was building up this team.

674
00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:24.801
It wasn't easy in the beginning.

675
00:33:26.222 --> 00:33:33.798
first year and then you can see things slowly starting to change and then the year of

676
00:33:34.499 --> 00:33:48.266
17-18 making it to the Champions League final as well of course unfortunately losing it but this was during those two years I think the club and the team grew up so much and you could see that so many positive things are happening there

677
00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:55.622
I think when I am or when we are talking about club always

678
00:33:55.782 --> 00:33:57.483
speaking about intensity.

679
00:33:58.136 --> 00:33:58.256
Yeah.

680
00:33:58.848 --> 00:34:05.333
I think the way Liverpool played in the Jurgen Klopp was unbelievable in terms of intensity.

681
00:34:06.274 --> 00:34:07.455
The way they pressed the ball,

682
00:34:07.875 --> 00:34:10.537
the way they wanted to regain the ball out of position,

683
00:34:11.301 --> 00:34:12.983
it was just unbelievable.

684
00:34:13.183 --> 00:34:16.806
And did you have this feeling right away when you signed for

685
00:34:17.286 --> 00:34:20.247
Klopp? Yeah,

686
00:34:20.248 --> 00:34:24.590
I think I was a little bit aware of it when he was...

687
00:34:25.424 --> 00:34:26.185
in Borussia Dortmund,

688
00:34:26.186 --> 00:34:26.725
in Germany,

689
00:34:26.925 --> 00:34:27.245
you know.

690
00:34:28.006 --> 00:34:32.829
And the German market also changed with this idea of,

691
00:34:33.782 --> 00:34:34.062
of course,

692
00:34:34.063 --> 00:34:35.843
the gegenpressing has been there longer,

693
00:34:35.923 --> 00:34:38.905
but this kind of gegenpressing with that intensity,

694
00:34:39.306 --> 00:34:41.988
he was already producing it in Borussia Dortmund.

695
00:34:42.428 --> 00:34:47.431
And all the smaller clubs were also trying that and trying to adapt.

696
00:34:47.471 --> 00:34:47.872
Of course,

697
00:34:48.152 --> 00:34:49.673
there's always the question of the quality.

698
00:34:49.813 --> 00:34:51.234
If you have enough quality there,

699
00:34:51.554 --> 00:34:51.774
blah,

700
00:34:52.035 --> 00:34:52.655
the lower you get,

701
00:34:52.675 --> 00:34:53.776
the lower the quality gets.

702
00:34:54.184 --> 00:35:14.552
but you can see that the whole Bundesliga was trying to play that way because looking back of course there's like eras of different styles what are in top of the world you know before gegenpressing it was this tiki taka you know Barcelona era where you always played and you played through everybody of course

703
00:35:15.333 --> 00:35:16.053
Messi, Xavi,

704
00:35:16.133 --> 00:35:16.614
Iniesta,

705
00:35:16.974 --> 00:35:20.296
Busquets everything they were on fire you know and then it was

706
00:35:21.032 --> 00:35:22.533
became this era of Kegan pressing,

707
00:35:22.534 --> 00:35:22.794
you know,

708
00:35:22.874 --> 00:35:25.836
then this German mentality with Jürgen Klopp,

709
00:35:25.837 --> 00:35:26.277
it changed,

710
00:35:26.278 --> 00:35:26.497
you know,

711
00:35:26.557 --> 00:35:31.445
they could at least contain or kill or have this weapon against Tiki Taka.

712
00:35:31.505 --> 00:35:34.027
So then the whole market changed to

713
00:35:34.467 --> 00:35:37.010
Kegan pressing and then it's the era of

714
00:35:37.986 --> 00:35:38.827
Pep Guardiola's

715
00:35:39.664 --> 00:35:40.244
Man City,

716
00:35:40.264 --> 00:35:40.564
you know,

717
00:35:40.644 --> 00:35:42.206
where it wasn't only Tiki Taka,

718
00:35:42.246 --> 00:35:43.827
he also used both of them,

719
00:35:43.828 --> 00:35:44.067
you know,

720
00:35:44.127 --> 00:35:47.190
also one part for him was this high pressing,

721
00:35:47.290 --> 00:35:49.032
high intensity and he changed his...

722
00:35:49.512 --> 00:36:06.388
philosophy a little bit so you can see that the world football tactical or the style of play has changed you have some kind of eras or years you know when right now the gegenpressing was a little bit destroyed

723
00:36:06.448 --> 00:36:15.340
also you can say also the serbi era where you play through it and you were still really attractive and really

724
00:36:17.792 --> 00:36:19.033
really dangerous team,

725
00:36:19.034 --> 00:36:19.313
you know,

726
00:36:19.393 --> 00:36:23.256
with playing through this gegenpressing and you found this medicine.

727
00:36:23.276 --> 00:36:24.537
So the game changed again.

728
00:36:24.777 --> 00:36:32.515
But I was really happy and lucky to be part of it in Liverpool when Jürgen started implementing it to the team.

729
00:36:32.535 --> 00:36:32.835
You know,

730
00:36:33.255 --> 00:36:33.856
it wasn't easy.

731
00:36:33.916 --> 00:36:39.876
All the players had to do a lot more than they were used to it.

732
00:36:39.877 --> 00:36:40.156
You know,

733
00:36:40.236 --> 00:36:40.996
and Jürgen came,

734
00:36:41.893 --> 00:36:45.555
I think Jürgen came in 2015,

735
00:36:45.575 --> 00:36:46.096
November.

736
00:36:47.132 --> 00:36:49.382
If I'm correct.

737
00:36:49.542 --> 00:36:50.383
You might be right,

738
00:36:50.423 --> 00:36:50.783
yeah.

739
00:36:51.299 --> 00:36:54.663
So he came in and when I was in Liverpool already,

740
00:36:54.903 --> 00:36:56.965
I was also talking with the medical staff and everything.

741
00:36:57.465 --> 00:37:01.148
And he tried to change it a little bit during the season.

742
00:37:01.289 --> 00:37:03.210
But all the changes he did during the season,

743
00:37:03.250 --> 00:37:04.371
there were also a lot of injuries.

744
00:37:05.332 --> 00:37:06.794
The intensity grew.

745
00:37:06.894 --> 00:37:10.517
That meant that there were many injuries with the hamstrings.

746
00:37:11.318 --> 00:37:12.459
Because intensity grew.

747
00:37:13.968 --> 00:37:17.749
Jürgen was pushing his style and first year or this half season,

748
00:37:18.189 --> 00:37:19.430
he wasn't so successful.

749
00:37:19.470 --> 00:37:21.290
So the next pre-season,

750
00:37:22.170 --> 00:37:22.830
he did more.

751
00:37:22.931 --> 00:37:27.352
He brought in some kind of players and he could implement it more the next year,

752
00:37:27.412 --> 00:37:27.912
more and more.

753
00:37:27.972 --> 00:37:29.444
So for me,

754
00:37:29.445 --> 00:37:35.066
it was really interesting to be part of it and see it with my own eyes how this change happened.

755
00:37:35.770 --> 00:37:41.916
And obviously you left Liverpool prior to them winning the European Cup.

756
00:37:43.568 --> 00:37:48.859
Was there an opportunity to stay there or was that not optional?

757
00:37:48.860 --> 00:37:49.900
I still had one year left.

758
00:37:49.901 --> 00:37:55.642
So there's always with the older players,

759
00:37:55.643 --> 00:37:55.922
you know,

760
00:37:56.243 --> 00:37:57.003
I was 32.

761
00:37:57.383 --> 00:37:59.208
So at the table,

762
00:37:59.228 --> 00:38:00.549
of course,

763
00:38:00.689 --> 00:38:03.631
I had one more year left with Liverpool.

764
00:38:03.951 --> 00:38:09.754
And the other side was also a good deal for two years in Serie A.

765
00:38:10.074 --> 00:38:11.835
So this is the age where you're also...

766
00:38:13.132 --> 00:38:15.073
thinking pluses and minuses there.

767
00:38:15.393 --> 00:38:16.394
So after that,

768
00:38:17.122 --> 00:38:18.783
I took that kind of decision.

769
00:38:19.163 --> 00:38:23.445
It wasn't only about the length of the contract or the money,

770
00:38:23.545 --> 00:38:27.222
but it's always there with the pluses and minuses.

771
00:38:27.302 --> 00:38:31.928
So this was also one of the reasoning what I had.

772
00:38:32.068 --> 00:38:38.231
And I still had the possibility to play three years in top five leagues in Europe.

773
00:38:38.251 --> 00:38:39.571
So in Serie A,

774
00:38:39.871 --> 00:38:41.172
it was also different.

775
00:38:41.512 --> 00:38:42.073
playing style,

776
00:38:42.133 --> 00:38:43.054
different culture,

777
00:38:43.934 --> 00:38:46.537
those are so many things to learn there as well.

778
00:38:46.557 --> 00:38:47.017
Of course,

779
00:38:49.574 --> 00:38:55.139
you regret that you didn't take the chance of being in the team for one more year.

780
00:38:55.620 --> 00:38:57.081
You could be a Champions League winner.

781
00:38:57.685 --> 00:39:00.828
You can call it yourself a Champions League winner,

782
00:39:00.888 --> 00:39:02.509
not a Champions League finalist.

783
00:39:02.649 --> 00:39:04.431
So there's always a big difference.

784
00:39:04.451 --> 00:39:06.553
But at a certain age,

785
00:39:07.093 --> 00:39:09.735
these different factors come in as well.

786
00:39:11.228 --> 00:39:13.992
being able to still play in top five leagues in Europe.

787
00:39:14.012 --> 00:39:16.583
So that was also kind of,

788
00:39:17.879 --> 00:39:18.060
yes,

789
00:39:18.260 --> 00:39:20.103
decision-making point there.

790
00:39:21.647 --> 00:39:23.510
And obviously they moved to Italy.

791
00:39:26.256 --> 00:39:28.899
People always say Italian football is a lot slower,

792
00:39:29.759 --> 00:39:30.680
more technical.

793
00:39:31.161 --> 00:39:33.142
You talk about the intensity from Klopp.

794
00:39:33.903 --> 00:39:35.785
Was that completely different in Italy,

795
00:39:37.506 --> 00:39:39.828
the intensity and the way they play over there?

796
00:39:39.829 --> 00:39:41.189
Because obviously I've not played,

797
00:39:41.269 --> 00:39:47.455
but I've always just been curious because you seem to have a lot more time when you watch the Italian football as a footballer on the ball.

798
00:39:48.195 --> 00:39:48.435
Yes,

799
00:39:48.636 --> 00:39:52.215
I think Italian football has been there for three years.

800
00:39:53.447 --> 00:39:54.088
the games are

801
00:39:54.668 --> 00:40:14.461
so different but when you're part of the training process also then you can see that the tactical side is so important for them especially defensively and you can see some games can be so slow because everybody's playing it like a chess you know it's like oh we don't move out here we keep it there and sometimes

802
00:40:14.481 --> 00:40:22.248
the Serie A games become like a chess games between two teams between two managers but sometimes it can be also a little bit

803
00:40:22.888 --> 00:40:23.869
more free-flowing,

804
00:40:23.929 --> 00:40:27.171
but most of the games are more like one on the tactical side,

805
00:40:27.783 --> 00:40:29.724
what is really what the Italians love to do.

806
00:40:29.864 --> 00:40:31.845
And defense is there also.

807
00:40:32.225 --> 00:40:33.086
Number one thing,

808
00:40:33.606 --> 00:40:34.947
I remember I was 32,

809
00:40:35.107 --> 00:40:38.509
just came from being a Champions League finalist,

810
00:40:39.105 --> 00:40:39.886
went to Italy,

811
00:40:40.086 --> 00:40:40.806
Galleria Galzio,

812
00:40:41.667 --> 00:40:43.548
and one of the first coaches there,

813
00:40:43.549 --> 00:40:45.697
he's looking at me,

814
00:40:45.757 --> 00:40:46.157
he's like,

815
00:40:46.653 --> 00:40:47.434
you can't defend.

816
00:40:49.415 --> 00:40:50.135
I was like,

817
00:40:50.136 --> 00:40:50.255
what?

818
00:40:50.295 --> 00:40:51.176
I played for Liverpool.

819
00:40:51.556 --> 00:40:52.336
What are you talking about?

820
00:40:52.496 --> 00:40:52.616
No,

821
00:40:52.736 --> 00:40:53.677
your body positioning,

822
00:40:53.717 --> 00:40:54.357
everything is off.

823
00:40:54.377 --> 00:40:54.637
You know,

824
00:40:54.777 --> 00:40:55.917
those things we are teaching

825
00:40:56.538 --> 00:40:58.598
17, 18 year old kids in here in Italy.

826
00:40:59.466 --> 00:41:01.167
I could have been like really arrogant guy.

827
00:41:01.168 --> 00:41:01.707
I said like,

828
00:41:02.047 --> 00:41:02.487
what do you know?

829
00:41:02.547 --> 00:41:06.256
I came from Liverpool and what are you talking about?

830
00:41:06.733 --> 00:41:09.734
But it was interesting for me because their view of everything,

831
00:41:09.854 --> 00:41:11.714
how the defenders body position,

832
00:41:12.014 --> 00:41:17.176
how they teach it to the youth players and tactically all those things.

833
00:41:17.912 --> 00:41:21.534
was really interesting and I took it as a good challenge.

834
00:41:21.915 --> 00:41:24.857
And right now I can say also I learned a lot during those years,

835
00:41:25.057 --> 00:41:25.857
defensively,

836
00:41:26.338 --> 00:41:26.858
tactically.

837
00:41:27.698 --> 00:41:29.580
So it was a great journey.

838
00:41:30.236 --> 00:41:32.678
But the journeys are always great when you're open to it.

839
00:41:32.738 --> 00:41:33.838
So if you're closed off,

840
00:41:33.918 --> 00:41:35.779
then nothing comes from it.

841
00:41:36.120 --> 00:41:37.581
But Italy was really...

842
00:41:37.701 --> 00:41:38.401
We were training

843
00:41:41.018 --> 00:41:43.299
11 against 0 so many times.

844
00:41:44.040 --> 00:42:00.281
so many long hours it's incredible and when one guy on in defense line was like a half meter one meter off target let's say then you stop you do everything until this half a meter one meter is corrected so this

845
00:42:00.441 --> 00:42:13.104
that is also the training methods in Italy during that time when I was there of course they're also the game changing now they understand that this style of play maybe is not

846
00:42:13.660 --> 00:42:15.642
the best way to be top of the world.

847
00:42:17.618 --> 00:42:17.818
Yeah.

848
00:42:20.160 --> 00:42:20.560
Obviously,

849
00:42:21.300 --> 00:42:31.759
you have eventually finished your career having played in the top five leagues across the top leagues in Europe.

850
00:42:32.784 --> 00:42:36.987
You mentioned Mark Puma earlier on was the kind of local hero for everyone.

851
00:42:37.007 --> 00:42:37.968
He's the one that made it.

852
00:42:38.604 --> 00:42:43.404
Would you say you're now the guy from Estonia that's made it and the new Mark?

853
00:42:43.484 --> 00:42:43.644
Pum,

854
00:42:43.645 --> 00:42:44.065
if you like,

855
00:42:44.125 --> 00:42:44.585
would you say

856
00:42:45.214 --> 00:42:46.595
Estonia look at you like that now?

857
00:42:46.655 --> 00:42:51.727
Because you've obviously done something that many people haven't done.

858
00:42:53.892 --> 00:42:55.244
I think,

859
00:42:55.705 --> 00:42:56.005
yes,

860
00:42:56.646 --> 00:43:00.489
being back now in Estonia almost five years now,

861
00:43:01.426 --> 00:43:03.168
you can sense it a little bit.

862
00:43:03.228 --> 00:43:07.071
And it's always with the smaller countries,

863
00:43:07.731 --> 00:43:10.594
if you want to say that it's the same also in Estonia.

864
00:43:10.714 --> 00:43:10.994
And it's,

865
00:43:11.595 --> 00:43:11.935
of course,

866
00:43:11.955 --> 00:43:12.436
you have...

867
00:43:14.964 --> 00:43:15.364
fans,

868
00:43:15.665 --> 00:43:17.085
somebody is a Liverpool fan,

869
00:43:17.165 --> 00:43:18.445
somebody is a Man United fan,

870
00:43:18.545 --> 00:43:19.566
somebody is a Man City fan.

871
00:43:20.026 --> 00:43:22.618
But if your own guy becomes,

872
00:43:23.219 --> 00:43:23.559
I don't know,

873
00:43:23.619 --> 00:43:24.459
Liverpool player,

874
00:43:24.539 --> 00:43:25.659
Man United player,

875
00:43:26.179 --> 00:43:26.900
Arsenal player,

876
00:43:27.768 --> 00:43:29.748
then the whole nation shifts a little bit.

877
00:43:29.848 --> 00:43:30.649
Even if it's like,

878
00:43:31.993 --> 00:43:33.493
I'm not a fan of the club,

879
00:43:33.553 --> 00:43:37.234
but because it's such a big thing for the nation,

880
00:43:37.374 --> 00:43:38.335
so then it changes.

881
00:43:38.675 --> 00:43:39.395
You can see also,

882
00:43:39.795 --> 00:43:42.376
a little bit similar has happened in the past.

883
00:43:42.976 --> 00:43:43.556
with Finland,

884
00:43:43.557 --> 00:43:43.856
you know,

885
00:43:44.036 --> 00:43:51.999
Sami Hyypia being there and Jari Littmanen with Ajax and also a short spell in Liverpool.

886
00:43:52.099 --> 00:43:52.699
Then you have

887
00:43:53.923 --> 00:43:54.724
Norway as well,

888
00:43:54.725 --> 00:43:55.024
you know,

889
00:43:55.124 --> 00:43:55.904
Jonathan Riese,

890
00:43:56.124 --> 00:43:56.404
you know,

891
00:43:56.604 --> 00:43:56.964
one part,

892
00:43:57.404 --> 00:43:57.585
many

893
00:43:58.085 --> 00:43:59.025
Liverpool fans there.

894
00:43:59.125 --> 00:44:00.185
Then you have also this

895
00:44:00.625 --> 00:44:01.226
Ronny Jonsson,

896
00:44:01.246 --> 00:44:02.246
who was Man United.

897
00:44:02.326 --> 00:44:05.571
And I don't say that smaller nations work this way,

898
00:44:05.631 --> 00:44:07.371
but it has a big influence.

899
00:44:07.652 --> 00:44:09.272
And I think with my case,

900
00:44:09.572 --> 00:44:22.692
It is a similar thing and hopefully that was some kind of motivation for the young players in Estonia also to dream bigger and make those steps in world football.

901
00:44:23.406 --> 00:44:23.666
I don't know,

902
00:44:23.706 --> 00:44:29.992
it's difficult to judge yourself or be in the shoes of Mark Poum now,

903
00:44:30.712 --> 00:44:31.393
in my case.

904
00:44:32.649 --> 00:44:32.789
Yeah,

905
00:44:32.790 --> 00:44:34.301
it's good,

906
00:44:34.621 --> 00:44:34.961
very good.

907
00:44:35.449 --> 00:44:38.138
So what would be next for you?

908
00:44:41.791 --> 00:44:42.631
Very good to judge.

909
00:44:42.651 --> 00:44:46.728
I think if a player finishes his career,

910
00:44:46.808 --> 00:44:50.269
so I finished my career in...

911
00:44:53.170 --> 00:44:54.939
for the end of the year.

912
00:44:55.099 --> 00:44:57.320
I still played in Estonia in the highest league.

913
00:44:59.781 --> 00:45:02.438
I played here so I didn't fully retire.

914
00:45:02.458 --> 00:45:02.578
So

915
00:45:03.578 --> 00:45:04.178
December

916
00:45:05.499 --> 00:45:10.169
2024. That's why you're still fit for the Legends game.

917
00:45:10.170 --> 00:45:12.210
I keep asking you to stay next to me.

918
00:45:15.683 --> 00:45:21.698
So this is also one part where I'm still really grateful.

919
00:45:23.214 --> 00:45:27.736
of those two years when I was Liverpool and also grateful that with those two years

920
00:45:28.748 --> 00:45:31.410
I'm able to be part of Liverpool Legends game,

921
00:45:31.411 --> 00:45:31.670
you know,

922
00:45:31.730 --> 00:45:39.337
is to play against or to play together with the guys who have been there five years,

923
00:45:39.477 --> 00:45:40.097
ten years,

924
00:45:41.278 --> 00:45:42.578
won some silverware,

925
00:45:42.579 --> 00:45:42.859
you know,

926
00:45:43.259 --> 00:45:44.079
it's a big honour.

927
00:45:44.687 --> 00:45:52.030
And one part I also understand that in this team or in this...

928
00:45:52.790 --> 00:46:10.171
Legends game I'm still a youngster so all the others this is true it's true and this is also one part that whatever way I see it I'm always really

929
00:46:10.391 --> 00:46:17.536
excited and honored to be part of the Liverpool Legends game you know and if there's opportunity to be part of it

930
00:46:18.056 --> 00:46:21.762
I will take it you know we can't compare my Thank you.

931
00:46:23.742 --> 00:46:24.582
Me as a player,

932
00:46:24.802 --> 00:46:25.743
all my time there,

933
00:46:25.903 --> 00:46:30.244
only two years compared to Sami Hibia or somebody with such a big name.

934
00:46:30.584 --> 00:46:35.265
I do understand that my spell in Liverpool was quite short.

935
00:46:35.874 --> 00:46:38.254
Maybe it was for some people,

936
00:46:40.206 --> 00:46:43.087
some things I did good enough to be invited to the

937
00:46:44.248 --> 00:46:45.168
Liverpool Legends game.

938
00:46:45.188 --> 00:46:47.488
But it was only two years,

939
00:46:47.508 --> 00:46:49.029
so every time I get a call,

940
00:46:50.129 --> 00:46:50.569
I'm honored.

941
00:46:50.570 --> 00:46:52.290
It doesn't matter the time in the years.

942
00:46:53.418 --> 00:46:55.019
You know this football club.

943
00:46:55.955 --> 00:46:57.216
If you show the right commitment,

944
00:46:57.217 --> 00:46:58.056
the right attitude,

945
00:46:58.316 --> 00:46:59.197
and you give everything,

946
00:47:00.441 --> 00:47:01.842
you will be part of this family forever.

947
00:47:02.562 --> 00:47:02.762
Yes,

948
00:47:03.282 --> 00:47:03.882
and this makes

949
00:47:05.003 --> 00:47:06.283
Liverpool so special as well.

950
00:47:06.924 --> 00:47:11.898
Looking at the fans and understanding their culture,

951
00:47:11.958 --> 00:47:12.898
their environment,

952
00:47:12.958 --> 00:47:16.200
and this is what really represents this club as well.

953
00:47:16.620 --> 00:47:20.321
This is not only a slogan of you never walk alone,

954
00:47:20.381 --> 00:47:21.442
but this is also...

955
00:47:21.962 --> 00:47:25.315
people's DNA of the fans,

956
00:47:25.435 --> 00:47:26.096
of the club.

957
00:47:26.196 --> 00:47:26.316
So

958
00:47:26.976 --> 00:47:28.196
I totally agree with you.

959
00:47:28.497 --> 00:47:30.597
When you give your everything for this club,

960
00:47:30.657 --> 00:47:31.618
even if it's one year,

961
00:47:31.678 --> 00:47:32.258
two years,

962
00:47:32.878 --> 00:47:39.537
it still means a lot to people and you will be or stay as part of the family.

963
00:47:40.193 --> 00:47:40.533
Correct.

964
00:47:40.633 --> 00:47:41.934
So now be ready for March,

965
00:47:42.574 --> 00:47:43.054
next March.

966
00:47:43.815 --> 00:47:46.116
I need to start training my hamstrings.

967
00:47:46.156 --> 00:47:48.457
They're not so strong anymore.

968
00:47:48.637 --> 00:47:49.477
When you will get my age,

969
00:47:49.478 --> 00:47:49.877
you will see.

970
00:47:53.526 --> 00:47:53.947
Perfect

971
00:47:54.307 --> 00:47:56.908
I've got a couple of quick fire questions for you

972
00:47:58.744 --> 00:48:01.045
Obviously you've played Across many different leagues

973
00:48:01.637 --> 00:48:03.037
Who is the best player

974
00:48:03.613 --> 00:48:04.434
You've played with?

975
00:48:05.630 --> 00:48:06.830
I would have to say

976
00:48:08.647 --> 00:48:13.072
Philippe Coutinho There's now of course Mo Salah,

977
00:48:13.092 --> 00:48:15.192
Sadio Mane as well Especially Mo Salah

978
00:48:15.849 --> 00:48:20.062
But it was that year When No.

979
00:48:21.718 --> 00:48:24.107
Philipp was phenomenal.

980
00:48:25.043 --> 00:48:26.443
Before he went to Barcelona,

981
00:48:29.208 --> 00:48:32.589
he was so good and also in trainings.

982
00:48:33.069 --> 00:48:33.430
And

983
00:48:33.770 --> 00:48:37.451
I don't say that he made a wrong choice of going to Barcelona.

984
00:48:37.511 --> 00:48:37.831
You know,

985
00:48:38.731 --> 00:48:43.017
his dream or childhood dream probably was also playing for Barcelona.

986
00:48:43.697 --> 00:48:45.298
And they saw him as an,

987
00:48:47.270 --> 00:48:47.650
I don't know.

988
00:48:47.710 --> 00:48:51.653
I don't say substitution for Messi when he's leaving,

989
00:48:51.693 --> 00:48:53.595
but a little bit in that sense.

990
00:48:54.836 --> 00:48:55.977
But he was really good.

991
00:48:56.437 --> 00:48:56.557
So

992
00:48:57.258 --> 00:48:58.639
Coutinho, of course,

993
00:48:58.859 --> 00:48:59.419
Mo Salah,

994
00:49:00.028 --> 00:49:02.229
extraordinary player.

995
00:49:02.730 --> 00:49:04.639
But first of all,

996
00:49:04.959 --> 00:49:05.920
as a human being,

997
00:49:05.940 --> 00:49:07.881
the same with Bobby Firmino,

998
00:49:08.382 --> 00:49:09.963
what he did for this club.

999
00:49:09.983 --> 00:49:13.786
I don't think he gets enough recognition of...

1000
00:49:14.374 --> 00:49:16.195
What was the winning percentage when

1001
00:49:16.535 --> 00:49:19.036
Bobby Firmino played for Liverpool as a striker?

1002
00:49:19.276 --> 00:49:21.057
He did the defence work,

1003
00:49:22.133 --> 00:49:23.673
he was running box to box,

1004
00:49:23.714 --> 00:49:27.415
he was opening the passing lines to all the other players,

1005
00:49:27.455 --> 00:49:28.115
to Sadio Mane,

1006
00:49:28.215 --> 00:49:28.775
Mo Salah,

1007
00:49:29.536 --> 00:49:30.076
Philippe Zoua,

1008
00:49:30.856 --> 00:49:31.296
and

1009
00:49:32.457 --> 00:49:34.998
I'm fortunate enough to play with so many good players.

1010
00:49:36.529 --> 00:49:43.919
I liked Filip when he was in his best year in Liverpool.

1011
00:49:43.939 --> 00:49:46.680
So that was something incredible.

1012
00:49:47.320 --> 00:49:48.001
Unfortunately,

1013
00:49:48.261 --> 00:49:48.961
he didn't stay.

1014
00:49:49.541 --> 00:49:50.742
He left for Barcelona.

1015
00:49:52.154 --> 00:49:55.327
And who was the best player you played against?

1016
00:49:57.995 --> 00:49:58.815
I have to say,

1017
00:49:59.944 --> 00:50:02.444
when I was in England,

1018
00:50:03.825 --> 00:50:04.245
I had...

1019
00:50:05.897 --> 00:50:07.878
possibility to play against

1020
00:50:08.838 --> 00:50:10.831
Kun Aguero.

1021
00:50:11.987 --> 00:50:12.747
He was different.

1022
00:50:12.748 --> 00:50:13.107
Of course,

1023
00:50:13.147 --> 00:50:25.494
I played against players who had good tools in the toolbox,

1024
00:50:25.954 --> 00:50:28.035
but Kun Aguero had everything.

1025
00:50:28.903 --> 00:50:29.483
He was short,

1026
00:50:29.523 --> 00:50:30.804
but he wasn't weak.

1027
00:50:30.864 --> 00:50:32.584
His center of mass was so low,

1028
00:50:32.644 --> 00:50:33.885
so he could turn with you.

1029
00:50:34.645 --> 00:50:35.946
Sometimes if you're a smaller player,

1030
00:50:35.947 --> 00:50:42.908
you know that you have maybe an advantage physically that you can push him away in some positions.

1031
00:50:43.229 --> 00:50:45.730
But he was strong enough to turn together also with you.

1032
00:50:45.830 --> 00:50:48.087
So you couldn't count on that.

1033
00:50:48.147 --> 00:50:49.247
You would be stronger there.

1034
00:50:49.647 --> 00:50:52.108
So he was good with passing.

1035
00:50:52.568 --> 00:50:56.630
He was good with finishing and also with the timing in the box.

1036
00:50:56.750 --> 00:50:57.310
So for me,

1037
00:50:58.291 --> 00:51:00.472
the most difficult player to play against him was

1038
00:51:00.852 --> 00:51:01.432
Gunnar Gwera.

1039
00:51:02.160 --> 00:51:02.560
And also,

1040
00:51:02.640 --> 00:51:02.981
I think...

1041
00:51:04.121 --> 00:51:05.962
I don't know how many goals he scored for Man City.

1042
00:51:06.042 --> 00:51:11.631
So this is also like maybe he's,

1043
00:51:12.191 --> 00:51:13.632
I don't say he's under the radar,

1044
00:51:13.692 --> 00:51:19.354
but he wasn't the most spoken striker when he was in Man City or in the world football.

1045
00:51:19.394 --> 00:51:20.254
But for me,

1046
00:51:20.374 --> 00:51:22.043
he was number one.

1047
00:51:23.451 --> 00:51:24.511
And one last one,

1048
00:51:25.275 --> 00:51:27.096
the best stadium you ever played in,

1049
00:51:27.616 --> 00:51:28.936
apart from Anfield,

1050
00:51:29.076 --> 00:51:30.197
you're not allowed to see Anfield.

1051
00:51:32.626 --> 00:51:35.507
I think something special is also in Germany.

1052
00:51:36.815 --> 00:51:37.656
I think it's called

1053
00:51:38.196 --> 00:51:39.176
Signal Iduna

1054
00:51:39.637 --> 00:51:41.037
Stadium, Borussia Dortmund.

1055
00:51:41.797 --> 00:51:43.878
So because in Bundesliga,

1056
00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:48.200
there's a difference if they play Bundesliga or they play Champions League.

1057
00:51:48.201 --> 00:51:48.400
You know,

1058
00:51:48.500 --> 00:51:49.661
it's the yellow wall.

1059
00:51:50.761 --> 00:51:51.642
In Bundesliga,

1060
00:51:51.842 --> 00:51:53.223
they have the standing spots.

1061
00:51:53.731 --> 00:51:58.393
So you can fit 30,000 people in this yellow wall behind the goal.

1062
00:51:59.069 --> 00:51:59.949
In Bundesliga games.

1063
00:52:00.049 --> 00:52:00.970
In Champions League games,

1064
00:52:01.030 --> 00:52:03.971
it's less because you need to put benches in there because in Bundesliga,

1065
00:52:03.991 --> 00:52:14.739
it's allowed to stand in those in the fan area or behind the goal there.

1066
00:52:14.799 --> 00:52:17.140
So there was a big difference if it was

1067
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:19.081
Champions League game or the Bundesliga.

1068
00:52:19.101 --> 00:52:19.961
So in Bundesliga,

1069
00:52:20.141 --> 00:52:26.764
there was like 30,000 people behind the goal and this was also something special.

1070
00:52:26.944 --> 00:52:28.405
So Borussia Dortmund And...

1071
00:52:28.705 --> 00:52:49.180
is also quite a good place to play well done yeah well done it's been a pleasure having you on mate it's been interesting to find out more about it and yeah appreciate your time yes no thank you for me also you know old man what

1072
00:52:49.260 --> 00:52:57.125
old man can do only talk about the past you know no it was a pleasure mate really really pleasure