WEBVTT

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Funka det?

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Ja,

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du har skrivit spaceship på flera ställen.

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Men det är ju starship.

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Det stämmer.

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Så,

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nu lämnar vi två avsnitt om tiden bakom oss.

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Men tiden den fortsätter ju såklart att ticka på i en rasande fart.

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Ja.

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We are at the end of March,

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and it's time to once again turn our eyes westward,

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where things are also going at a rapid pace.

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We've said it before,

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and we'll have to say it again.

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A lot is happening in the United States of America right now.

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Yes,

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since we talked to Sveriges Radio's USA-corps Roger Wilson in the first episode of the year,

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for today,

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one month ago,

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Elon Musk's Doge

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Department of Government Efficiency seriously knocked down space,

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with the American weather agency NOAA and NASA space agency NASA being cut down.

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SpaceX was allowed by the FAA to test fly the next Starship,

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number

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8 in the order,

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after number 7 exploded.

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This makes us wonder,

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how will the plans for March 2026 go?

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And to fly there people in 2028.

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Exactly.

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My name is Marcus Pettersson.

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My name is Susanna Levenhaupt.

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You listen to,

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have we gone to Mars yet?

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SpaceX plan is to put people on Mars already

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2028. But how are they actually?

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Can they do it?

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For a few weeks ago we talked about Starship 7 that exploded during the flight,

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which led to the American Air Force Authority FAA initiating an investigation of the incident and the status of the Starship 8 was paused.

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But only a week later they were back on.

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The

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Starship 8 booster was caught,

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now routine by the chopsticks,

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but the rocket itself exploded before it succeeded with its planned route.

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If FAA's quick decision to give up the mission had anything to do with Doge's planned landings,

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even then we would be unsaid.

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But we wonder how it will go.

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Will SpaceX be able to send hundreds of Starship rockets each year in the next four years?

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And above all,

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will they be able to be sent to Mars?

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To find out,

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we do a re-search at Luleå University of Technology.

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and talks to René Laufer,

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professor in space technology.

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René,

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will SpaceX be able to fly to Mars within the next few years?

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From today's perspective,

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we have now March 2025,

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I would be very skeptical to see

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Starship flying to Mars and deliver cargo in preparation for human crews to fly to Mars two years later.

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The reason for that is that space is hard.

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In general,

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space is hard.

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We see this every time.

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Then,

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of course,

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such a development is not simple.

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We have seen this.

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SpaceX has a very fast try-again,

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fail-again approach also with the Starship.

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So we have seen in the first seven Starship flights that certain things didn't work.

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Sometimes they work.

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The next flight they don't work.

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And they improve,

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they get better,

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and they fly again.

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But if you want to go to Mars...

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then you need a system that works from end to end,

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from launch to landing.

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And when it's with cargo,

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at least you want to deliver the cargo safe,

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so it's there when people come two years later.

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This is the crucial point when going to Mars.

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It's not as simple anymore as flying to low Earth orbit,

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ISS,

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400 kilometer above,

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and you know,

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if you do it in today's world,

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you don't even need a few hours to get there.

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to the Moon soon.

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When we return to the Moon hopefully then it takes a few days.

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But to Mars it takes several months to fly there and it's not that you can fly every time.

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So there are certain orbital constellations where it's really good approximately every 26 months,

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roughly every two years.

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And then you can fly with the lowest amount of energy,

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the lowest amount of fuel.

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It's still a lot.

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And so you need a fully functional system that is tested end-to-end.

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And with the Starship,

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we know it's not just about launching a rocket,

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pointing it in the right direction and fly it to Mars.

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It's about bringing the Starship,

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which is a huge rocket,

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into space.

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bring other starships with fuel to refuel as a tanker,

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and then you launch from Earth orbit towards Mars with the first starship that you refueled enough and bring it there just to land there and bring the cargo.

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It's also risky because a lot of the issues to fly humans to Mars are still not perfectly solved.

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Low Earth orbit is a rather cozy place,

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protected in many,

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many ways for our astronauts.

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But deep space is a little bit more hazardous and flying so long and being at least for more than a year in space raises medical issues.

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And don't forget,

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it's not just putting people in a space suit in the Starship.

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It means you have to have a fully functional life support system that sustains your crew in 2028 as they plan to live on board of the Starship.

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live on the Martian surface and come back with a Starship.

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And that's not simple.

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You can't really risk any failure.

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It has to be highly reliable.

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And you can't bring anything during the mission.

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At the International Space Station,

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we should not forget to keep six people on the International Space Station all the time alive and supply them with everything they need.

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We bring up with several cargo vehicles.

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Up to 32 tons for six people every year.

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And we can't do this when we fly to Mars because you can't send other cargo ships after that.

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Everything has to be there.

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Everything has to work all the time.

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Nothing should fail.

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So I'm a bit skeptical because life support system is really,

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really tough.

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And we will continue to talk about that.

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But first,

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I would like to ask something else.

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The landing.

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We have seen Starship now a few times.

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It's landed by getting...

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this beautiful,

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cool chopsticks catching it.

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There will be no chopsticks on Mars.

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So the chopsticks actually are for the super heavy.

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That's the booster.

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That's the first stage.

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That's the idea.

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With the Starship,

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the idea is you see this at the end of the mission before it drops in the water.

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It hovers above the water and it should land like a rocket from a

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1950s shiny science fiction movie.

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And you would do the same on Mars.

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That's the idea.

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But exactly as you said,

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This is not demonstrated either yet,

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and that's a little bit further down the road.

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Also,

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the refueling in space is not as simple as you and me driving our car to the gas station if we're not driving electric and,

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you know,

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refueling with the gas into the gasoline in our car.

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So it's not so simple.

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It's tricky.

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It's under freefall conditions,

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so,

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you know,

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weightlessness effects and stuff like this.

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All of this needs to be proven.

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And prove more than once,

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because if you want to fly to Mars,

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it's not enough to say,

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hey,

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I succeeded once.

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You want to show this on an operational base,

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repeatedly again and again and again and again.

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And then you can say,

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no,

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I'm ready to fly to Mars.

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So that's why I say,

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I think it's better to be safe than sorry.

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And of course,

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that still means this.

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approach,

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and every approach is different,

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other companies do it different,

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this approach in try and fail and fail again and try again is okay as long as you can do it here on Earth and in low Earth orbit because that's accessible easily,

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you can get there quickly,

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you can try quickly,

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but if you want to go to Mars,

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you have to be really sure.

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And when it comes to landing,

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we will try to not just hover over the water,

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but we will try to land of course on Earth first.

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But will we also try on the Moon or will we go directly to Mars?

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Well,

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SpaceX is contracted by NASA to provide a lander,

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a version of the Starship that is a lander,

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a lunar lander,

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and that will fly to the Gateway,

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you know,

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the space station in lunar orbit,

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in a very high lunar orbit.

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And the crew will fly with,

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currently is the idea,

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with the Orion spacecraft launched by the Space Launch Vehicle.

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the Space Launch System,

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SLS,

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during the Artemis missions.

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And then there will be an uncrewed starship flying to this gateway.

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The astronauts will climb into the starship,

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dock and climb into the starship,

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and land on the lunar surface.

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So like in these

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1950s science fiction movies,

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again,

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the starship as a rocket-shaped spacecraft will land on the lunar surface.

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And this is also then training,

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because everything we...

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can try out on the moon is actually excellent training for further

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Mars missions.

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And we heard also numbers now that in the upcoming four years,

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I think it is,

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Elon wants to launch 100 starships a year.

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If they get the permits to do this,

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do they have the capacity?

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They're planning to build up their capacity and I think that's feasible.

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Of course that depends on the governmental approach issuing the licenses.

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I think we all agree that currently the political situation in the US might be helpful with this for SpaceX,

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of course.

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So quite of a SpaceX friendly environment for them.

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And so they can expand their base there in southern Texas to have more launch sites.

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to increase the launch frequency.

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Nevertheless,

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at the end of the day,

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this launch frequency with this many starships,

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and of course they're reusable,

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that's the idea,

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but again you need quite a high number if you want to really make these missions possible.

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Even to fly to the moon,

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there's different numbers.

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SpaceX says at least eight tanker flights are needed to refuel the starship to get to the moon.

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And

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NASA says the number is higher because we are a little bit more conservative,

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a little bit more on the safe side.

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It will be a similar number,

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maybe slightly less,

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to go to Mars actually,

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because you're not going first to a space station lunar orbit and then to the surface.

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You probably will go directly to the Martian surface.

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But that means you need at least these many starships available to refuel them,

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to reuse them,

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to launch them regularly.

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And at the end of the day,

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Despite of the idea that launches should be cheaper with a Starship,

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lower cost,

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somebody has to pay for it.

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Somebody has to have the big deep pocket to say,

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we are doing this great Martian program.

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And so far,

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despite of all the promises,

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we haven't really seen yet this dramatic decline in launch cost.

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And as they say,

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we will put people on Mars 2028.

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When do you think it will be?

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When can we do it for real?

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What do you think in your opinion?

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If we do it with the approach that we have seen in previous years,

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in previous decades,

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00:12:03.400 --> 00:12:06.461
space agency driven approach or in today's world,

264
00:12:06.701 --> 00:12:07.341
wherever you go,

265
00:12:07.541 --> 00:12:12.904
probably public-private partnerships or space agencies and commercial providers.

266
00:12:13.604 --> 00:12:14.524
Optimistically,

267
00:12:15.024 --> 00:12:16.045
I would say late

268
00:12:16.865 --> 00:12:22.107
2030s could be the earliest one for a short explorative mission.

269
00:12:22.608 --> 00:12:22.868
You know,

270
00:12:23.028 --> 00:12:23.588
we get there.

271
00:12:23.748 --> 00:12:25.089
We do a little bit and we come back.

272
00:12:26.090 --> 00:12:27.971
But when we see that,

273
00:12:28.011 --> 00:12:28.671
of course,

274
00:12:29.252 --> 00:12:30.092
geopolitical,

275
00:12:30.833 --> 00:12:32.694
it's a bit more difficult these times.

276
00:12:33.675 --> 00:12:36.136
People say we have to spend money on other things.

277
00:12:36.236 --> 00:12:39.699
Then it might go down after 2040 or later.

278
00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:50.646
I would say optimistically the earliest possible might be late 2030 if we would say now let's do this and let's start planning and let's implement what is needed for that.

279
00:12:51.467 --> 00:12:52.267
So again...

280
00:12:53.876 --> 00:12:54.997
first human on the moon

281
00:12:55.797 --> 00:12:56.798
1960s type of approach,

282
00:12:57.279 --> 00:12:58.399
it probably will be later.

283
00:12:58.579 --> 00:13:01.942
But now you're talking about putting persons or people on Mars.

284
00:13:02.042 --> 00:13:05.564
When do you think the first Starship will land or crash on Mars?

285
00:13:05.905 --> 00:13:07.366
I still think this will be in the

286
00:13:08.126 --> 00:13:10.128
2030s. I don't think we see it that quickly.

287
00:13:11.509 --> 00:13:13.790
SpaceX always and SpaceX

288
00:13:14.210 --> 00:13:15.892
CEO always was very,

289
00:13:15.992 --> 00:13:17.793
very visionary over optimistic.

290
00:13:18.654 --> 00:13:21.896
I think that's part of the way how they see how they are driven.

291
00:13:22.688 --> 00:13:25.029
I don't want to say it's necessarily wrong,

292
00:13:25.169 --> 00:13:31.670
but of course others in the space business rather like to have a more cautionary approach,

293
00:13:31.690 --> 00:13:32.651
a more realistic,

294
00:13:32.991 --> 00:13:35.332
pragmatic approach when it comes to timelines.

295
00:13:36.072 --> 00:13:37.172
Because on the other hand,

296
00:13:37.172 --> 00:13:37.432
you know,

297
00:13:37.472 --> 00:13:40.333
we hear this basically now for almost 10 years,

298
00:13:40.793 --> 00:13:41.793
we will go there in two years,

299
00:13:41.813 --> 00:13:42.714
we will go there in two years,

300
00:13:42.714 --> 00:13:43.734
we will go there in two years.

301
00:13:44.234 --> 00:13:45.774
Some people get a little bit tired of that.

302
00:13:46.014 --> 00:13:46.655
On the other hand,

303
00:13:46.675 --> 00:13:47.115
of course,

304
00:13:47.515 --> 00:13:50.016
others get very excited when they hear,

305
00:13:50.136 --> 00:13:50.296
yeah,

306
00:13:50.736 --> 00:13:51.276
let's try it.

307
00:13:51.736 --> 00:13:52.816
And if we fail,

308
00:13:52.876 --> 00:13:56.097
then let's try again and still have the goal to be there in two years.

309
00:13:57.518 --> 00:13:58.078
And finally,

310
00:13:58.198 --> 00:13:59.338
just to repeat,

311
00:13:59.798 --> 00:14:05.480
what are the core things that needs to get done before this is possible?

312
00:14:06.380 --> 00:14:09.321
High reliability of the launcher and landing vehicle.

313
00:14:09.701 --> 00:14:16.123
I think that needs to be demonstrated really in an incredibly highly reliable operational setup.

314
00:14:17.183 --> 00:14:20.944
Life support system and solving of all the medical issues.

315
00:14:21.244 --> 00:14:24.625
because flying with humans to Mars is really hard.

316
00:14:25.565 --> 00:14:32.507
And even if we just want to transport cargo in a large amount to prepare for future exploration,

317
00:14:33.127 --> 00:14:36.068
maybe starting robotically and then have humans coming later,

318
00:14:36.888 --> 00:14:39.209
it's still a logistical effort.

319
00:14:39.629 --> 00:14:40.329
It's not simple.

320
00:14:44.590 --> 00:14:46.171
Okay,

321
00:14:46.231 --> 00:14:46.771
2030-tal ändå.

322
00:14:47.411 --> 00:14:48.351
Inte om fyra år,

323
00:14:48.411 --> 00:14:50.572
men heller inte så jättelångt borta.

324
00:14:50.872 --> 00:14:51.072
No,

325
00:14:51.453 --> 00:14:51.573
5,

326
00:14:51.813 --> 00:14:52.114
10,

327
00:14:52.174 --> 00:14:54.537
15 years is nothing in the space industry.

328
00:14:54.557 --> 00:14:59.284
And even if SpaceX doesn't reach Mars in the next few years,

329
00:14:59.384 --> 00:15:01.847
the test flights of Starship will continue,

330
00:15:01.987 --> 00:15:04.691
and they fly with Falcon 9 all the time.

331
00:15:05.232 --> 00:15:07.114
So we'll have things to talk about anyway.

332
00:15:07.435 --> 00:15:08.316
Be so safe.

333
00:15:08.924 --> 00:15:10.484
Absolutely.

334
00:15:10.484 --> 00:15:12.765
And it's not just SpaceX that flies,

335
00:15:13.205 --> 00:15:16.346
and it's not just Mars that's the goal.

336
00:15:16.366 --> 00:15:19.087
A whole new space race is taking place.

337
00:15:19.087 --> 00:15:21.628
And today it's not between the USA and the Soviet Union,

338
00:15:21.868 --> 00:15:24.008
but rather between the USA and China.

339
00:15:24.088 --> 00:15:27.929
And there are also many other countries in the picture.

340
00:15:27.929 --> 00:15:32.631
Plus that the private industry is taking a bigger place.

341
00:15:32.631 --> 00:15:37.452
So how does it go when more and more interests are aiming at the moon and our planet?

342
00:15:37.592 --> 00:15:42.833
planetary close to the moon in a time of rapid changes and a ongoing trade war.

343
00:15:42.954 --> 00:15:47.935
What happens to cooperation and how current is space today?

344
00:15:48.415 --> 00:15:54.417
Johan Eriksson is a professor in space science with an interest in space issues and space policy,

345
00:15:54.817 --> 00:15:58.838
security policy and technology policy at Södertörn University.

346
00:15:58.838 --> 00:16:02.019
A perfect person to talk to about all this.

347
00:16:02.099 --> 00:16:03.999
And we start in the USA.

348
00:16:04.880 --> 00:16:05.200
Johan,

349
00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:05.1000
what has happened?

350
00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:09.102
in the US space recently?

351
00:16:09.462 --> 00:16:09.743
Yes,

352
00:16:09.743 --> 00:16:11.424
a lot is happening on the ground,

353
00:16:11.424 --> 00:16:13.205
when it comes to NASA,

354
00:16:13.205 --> 00:16:14.226
the big space administration,

355
00:16:14.226 --> 00:16:18.849
where they have announced that there can be extensive declines,

356
00:16:18.969 --> 00:16:19.289
50%

357
00:16:19.289 --> 00:16:20.070
declines,

358
00:16:20.150 --> 00:16:23.812
and go down to a level that was in the mid-80s.

359
00:16:23.812 --> 00:16:26.614
But also the decimation,

360
00:16:26.654 --> 00:16:28.656
and as you know,

361
00:16:28.836 --> 00:16:32.738
Elon Musk is the head of the Department for Government Effectiveness,

362
00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:35.200
and that you should do...

363
00:16:35.580 --> 00:16:36.641
These are extensive cuts,

364
00:16:36.641 --> 00:16:40.183
because they are being wasted with money in federal companies.

365
00:16:40.203 --> 00:16:42.924
And it also affects space companies.

366
00:16:42.924 --> 00:16:46.907
So there are many who are forced to leave,

367
00:16:46.907 --> 00:16:48.928
they have closed down offices.

368
00:16:48.948 --> 00:16:50.869
Partly it's about what they call woke,

369
00:16:50.889 --> 00:16:56.152
everything that has to do with diversity and inclusion and similar programs.

370
00:16:56.152 --> 00:16:58.873
There are also NASA and many others,

371
00:16:58.873 --> 00:17:01.114
but that's it.

372
00:17:01.315 --> 00:17:02.295
But it's still a smaller part,

373
00:17:02.295 --> 00:17:02.795
you could say.

374
00:17:02.955 --> 00:17:03.456
But also...

375
00:17:04.977 --> 00:17:07.638
Why should NASA be working on climate research?

376
00:17:07.638 --> 00:17:09.219
There's a list of words that are forbidden,

377
00:17:09.219 --> 00:17:10.860
for example climate change.

378
00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:12.320
That's not to be mentioned.

379
00:17:12.380 --> 00:17:18.964
NASA is very important with its ability to look down on the earth and observe what's happening there and out there.

380
00:17:19.024 --> 00:17:20.345
But also that NASA,

381
00:17:20.405 --> 00:17:22.866
according to some reports,

382
00:17:22.906 --> 00:17:26.728
has put down offices that are about planning,

383
00:17:26.868 --> 00:17:29.350
strategy and policy development.

384
00:17:29.350 --> 00:17:33.612
So they have a power of leadership that decreases as you...

385
00:17:33.832 --> 00:17:36.574
places people who are obviously loyal to

386
00:17:37.035 --> 00:17:37.715
Trump and Musk,

387
00:17:37.935 --> 00:17:43.700
people who have previously invested in SpaceX or come directly from SpaceX.

388
00:17:43.740 --> 00:17:47.203
So there are a few things that are happening right now.

389
00:17:47.203 --> 00:17:48.844
And there is a lot of uncertainty.

390
00:17:48.844 --> 00:17:49.585
What will this lead to?

391
00:17:50.766 --> 00:17:54.429
But that it goes fast and that it is very turbulent within NASA,

392
00:17:54.909 --> 00:17:57.131
like in the whole of the USA right now,

393
00:17:57.131 --> 00:17:58.752
is clear.

394
00:17:58.972 --> 00:18:03.116
But how do these declines rhyme with the fact that at the same time

395
00:18:03.496 --> 00:18:06.577
satsar ganska stort och säger att man ska till mars ganska snart?

396
00:18:07.017 --> 00:18:07.137
Ja,

397
00:18:07.397 --> 00:18:08.317
det kan man verkligen undra.

398
00:18:09.878 --> 00:18:14.359
Jag tror inte att allting framstår när man tittar närmare på det som helt rationellt.

399
00:18:15.399 --> 00:18:16.080
Och vi måste väl,

400
00:18:16.900 --> 00:18:18.340
det är lite tidigt att analysera,

401
00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:20.061
vad innebär de här nedskärningarna?

402
00:18:20.141 --> 00:18:25.842
Är det så att man omfördelar pengar till de stora prestige-projekten,

403
00:18:26.742 --> 00:18:32.064
att återkomma med astronauter till månen och bygga den här basen inom Artemis-programmet?

404
00:18:32.844 --> 00:18:38.666
and from there reach March or a redistribution that will happen right on March,

405
00:18:38.846 --> 00:18:40.746
as Elon Musk seems to think,

406
00:18:40.806 --> 00:18:43.887
is very uncertain.

407
00:18:43.887 --> 00:18:48.748
I would say that you listen to some experts from the USA who discuss this now,

408
00:18:49.048 --> 00:18:56.270
so most of them are serious about these enormous prestige projects that are enormously expensive,

409
00:18:56.310 --> 00:19:02.052
that can be 100 billion dollars to have some kind of long-term...

410
00:19:02.452 --> 00:19:07.876
and create a permanent base on the Moon,

411
00:19:07.896 --> 00:19:08.496
do research,

412
00:19:08.496 --> 00:19:11.258
and maybe extract minerals and other things,

413
00:19:11.258 --> 00:19:14.120
but also learn more about how this type of activity works,

414
00:19:14.140 --> 00:19:15.661
improve the technology,

415
00:19:15.661 --> 00:19:16.542
the infrastructure,

416
00:19:17.122 --> 00:19:19.144
and eventually be very well prepared to,

417
00:19:19.164 --> 00:19:21.425
with the help of the Moon,

418
00:19:21.465 --> 00:19:22.386
like a stepping stone,

419
00:19:22.386 --> 00:19:23.707
reach Mars for real,

420
00:19:23.727 --> 00:19:24.687
and not just,

421
00:19:25.368 --> 00:19:25.488
hey,

422
00:19:25.508 --> 00:19:26.429
we managed to get there,

423
00:19:26.489 --> 00:19:28.770
but now we're going home again,

424
00:19:28.770 --> 00:19:29.651
and then you never go back,

425
00:19:29.691 --> 00:19:31.172
but instead you do it like...

426
00:19:31.828 --> 00:19:32.368
Seriously,

427
00:19:32.368 --> 00:19:32.889
long-term,

428
00:19:32.889 --> 00:19:38.311
that there can be a way to get out of outer space,

429
00:19:38.351 --> 00:19:39.632
that's uncertain.

430
00:19:39.632 --> 00:19:45.055
I would say that there's a lot that shows that this is not thought through.

431
00:19:45.055 --> 00:19:47.876
When you say up and clean,

432
00:19:47.896 --> 00:19:49.817
you take away about 50%

433
00:19:49.817 --> 00:19:50.377
of what you say,

434
00:19:50.557 --> 00:19:51.098
NASA.

435
00:19:51.258 --> 00:19:52.899
Those people do things,

436
00:19:52.959 --> 00:19:54.019
obviously.

437
00:19:57.141 --> 00:19:58.362
and produce results.

438
00:19:59.063 --> 00:20:00.604
Is there another plan?

439
00:20:00.624 --> 00:20:05.127
That we should make this more efficient and that's why we're removing it and rebuilding it again?

440
00:20:05.268 --> 00:20:07.649
Or is it just that we have to remove as many people as possible?

441
00:20:07.649 --> 00:20:09.651
It's incredibly hard to know at the moment.

442
00:20:09.651 --> 00:20:10.852
But we know that it's happening.

443
00:20:10.872 --> 00:20:11.953
There are cuts.

444
00:20:12.173 --> 00:20:13.554
People are disappearing,

445
00:20:13.574 --> 00:20:14.535
being challenged to leave,

446
00:20:14.635 --> 00:20:17.778
or forced to leave if you put down offices.

447
00:20:18.298 --> 00:20:20.680
But if there is a plan to replace this somehow,

448
00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:21.521
and what to do instead,

449
00:20:22.221 --> 00:20:24.763
we haven't seen that yet.

450
00:20:24.763 --> 00:20:25.364
I haven't seen it.

451
00:20:26.140 --> 00:20:35.426
There are reports and journalists who have managed to talk to people who are on NASA who openly tell what is happening.

452
00:20:35.466 --> 00:20:41.029
But we don't know if there is a clear plan for what to do instead.

453
00:20:41.349 --> 00:20:41.850
Maybe there is,

454
00:20:41.870 --> 00:20:46.413
but there is a huge uncertainty.

455
00:20:46.413 --> 00:20:47.453
And you can speculate,

456
00:20:47.553 --> 00:20:50.415
and that's where we are right now.

457
00:20:50.415 --> 00:20:50.875
And it's not just me,

458
00:20:50.915 --> 00:20:52.136
it's others as well.

459
00:20:53.617 --> 00:20:59.101
speculates that it is not a secret that Elon Musk wants to go to Mars.

460
00:20:59.661 --> 00:21:00.782
He is not so interested in the Moon.

461
00:21:00.942 --> 00:21:07.106
The Artemis program was launched during the Trump regime.

462
00:21:07.206 --> 00:21:12.050
It is very long-term and it covers a lot of international partners.

463
00:21:12.130 --> 00:21:13.250
You have agreements,

464
00:21:13.310 --> 00:21:14.571
the Artemis Accord,

465
00:21:14.631 --> 00:21:16.152
and so on.

466
00:21:16.373 --> 00:21:21.056
NASA is making a huge investment in this with the help of the business sector.

467
00:21:21.796 --> 00:21:26.579
But it was Trump who made it happen politically.

468
00:21:26.619 --> 00:21:29.061
But now he has also said that

469
00:21:29.621 --> 00:21:30.702
Mars is no longer interesting.

470
00:21:30.862 --> 00:21:36.486
Both in his installation speech in January and in the speech at the congress a few weeks ago,

471
00:21:36.486 --> 00:21:42.250
he said that we should put the American flag on the Mars surface.

472
00:21:42.350 --> 00:21:44.932
When did he say that?

473
00:21:45.232 --> 00:21:46.693
Or how did he say that?

474
00:21:46.713 --> 00:21:47.154
Or in what way?

475
00:21:47.154 --> 00:21:47.834
He didn't say anything.

476
00:21:48.394 --> 00:21:48.695
But he did.

477
00:21:48.695 --> 00:21:50.696
This is about what we have to go on.

478
00:21:50.776 --> 00:21:51.817
something he has written on X,

479
00:21:52.257 --> 00:21:52.878
this platform.

480
00:21:52.878 --> 00:21:52.998
Yes,

481
00:21:53.718 --> 00:21:54.799
but Månen is not so important.

482
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:56.140
Why can't we go to Mars directly,

483
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:56.381
roughly?

484
00:21:56.421 --> 00:21:59.183
And that Elon Musk wants to go there,

485
00:21:59.183 --> 00:22:00.024
and that sounds good.

486
00:22:00.024 --> 00:22:01.104
At the same time,

487
00:22:01.104 --> 00:22:01.985
I have also said that,

488
00:22:02.325 --> 00:22:04.147
when I directly asked other journalists,

489
00:22:05.008 --> 00:22:06.048
how important is it with Mars?

490
00:22:06.128 --> 00:22:06.789
Is it a priority?

491
00:22:06.949 --> 00:22:08.851
Will there be an executive order,

492
00:22:08.871 --> 00:22:09.611
a decision,

493
00:22:09.611 --> 00:22:10.432
a budget for this?

494
00:22:10.972 --> 00:22:11.573
No,

495
00:22:11.573 --> 00:22:13.635
it's not the highest on the agenda.

496
00:22:13.695 --> 00:22:17.458
But is it because it's in some way cocky to express it as a goal?

497
00:22:17.658 --> 00:22:18.038
Yes,

498
00:22:18.238 --> 00:22:18.559
I think so,

499
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:19.079
absolutely.

500
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:20.060
It's about prestige.

501
00:22:20.380 --> 00:22:20.720
I mean,

502
00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:23.962
at least he has big speeches to the American politicians,

503
00:22:24.062 --> 00:22:25.403
the Congress and the people,

504
00:22:25.463 --> 00:22:28.705
that we are now in a new golden era,

505
00:22:29.785 --> 00:22:34.027
and we are going to make America great again and all that.

506
00:22:34.488 --> 00:22:35.268
So it goes in,

507
00:22:35.268 --> 00:22:37.069
and he talks about the American dreams,

508
00:22:37.890 --> 00:22:39.450
including the American space dreams.

509
00:22:39.450 --> 00:22:43.553
And it goes with the identity as a superpower,

510
00:22:43.593 --> 00:22:44.633
to establish your position.

511
00:22:44.633 --> 00:22:46.234
And you say straight out,

512
00:22:46.354 --> 00:22:47.855
we are now a space race,

513
00:22:47.855 --> 00:22:48.515
a new space race,

514
00:22:48.675 --> 00:22:49.436
not with Russia.

515
00:22:50.196 --> 00:22:51.497
Men med Kina i första hand.

516
00:22:51.837 --> 00:22:54.079
Och vi ska behålla vårt ledarskap i rymden.

517
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:55.060
Vi ska vara störst,

518
00:22:55.120 --> 00:22:57.822
bäst och kanske vackrast i rymden.

519
00:22:58.082 --> 00:23:09.051
Det jag hör är liksom bara en massa attityd och en massa storvulna planer som låter lite vaga och otydliga.

520
00:23:09.711 --> 00:23:15.996
Men finns det några konkreta planer som USAs administration har utgivit?

521
00:23:16.136 --> 00:23:16.376
Yes,

522
00:23:16.476 --> 00:23:17.777
it exists.

523
00:23:17.877 --> 00:23:27.222
And what I understand is that what you have worked with when the Artemis program came to be eight years ago,

524
00:23:27.222 --> 00:23:29.664
you have worked hard within this.

525
00:23:29.684 --> 00:23:32.245
And it also builds on previous,

526
00:23:32.245 --> 00:23:39.649
it is not the first time that NASA has taken forward strategies for how we should get to Mars and what we should do there.

527
00:23:39.649 --> 00:23:42.070
We have had that for a long time.

528
00:23:42.230 --> 00:23:43.911
We had earlier Journey to Mars,

529
00:23:43.931 --> 00:23:44.812
a NASA program.

530
00:23:47.614 --> 00:23:50.176
Artemis is not just about the moon,

531
00:23:50.236 --> 00:23:53.958
it is also a way to reach Mars in a serious and long-term way.

532
00:23:54.139 --> 00:23:57.301
We need a station,

533
00:23:57.501 --> 00:24:01.964
we need this to learn and develop technology,

534
00:24:01.964 --> 00:24:05.667
so that it does not go to hell when we take off on this risk-filled journey.

535
00:24:05.667 --> 00:24:07.749
Then we have our descents on NASA,

536
00:24:08.049 --> 00:24:09.310
we have the

537
00:24:09.650 --> 00:24:10.571
Artemis program,

538
00:24:10.591 --> 00:24:11.852
we have the Mars plans.

539
00:24:12.808 --> 00:24:17.413
Have you expressed any other thoughts about what to do with the ruins?

540
00:24:18.124 --> 00:24:18.685
Förutom det.

541
00:24:18.985 --> 00:24:21.687
Det finns ju parallella diskussioner kan man säga.

542
00:24:21.847 --> 00:24:24.389
Och det som har pågått sen länge också som också

543
00:24:24.790 --> 00:24:26.451
Trump startade det var ju Space Force.

544
00:24:26.911 --> 00:24:29.734
Den här militariseringen av rymdverksamheten.

545
00:24:30.194 --> 00:24:34.518
Det är egentligen en bekräftelse av att rymden alltid varit militärt intressant och viktigt.

546
00:24:35.699 --> 00:24:37.560
Och det där pågår ju parallellt.

547
00:24:37.780 --> 00:24:46.628
Och jag uppfattar det ibland som att den här civila diskussionen om näringslivets diskussion om rymden och utveckling av farkoster och Artemis-programmet och annat.

548
00:24:47.208 --> 00:24:50.009
Inklusive rymddiplomatin som pågår på FN-nivå.

549
00:24:50.929 --> 00:24:54.570
Den handlar mycket om att vi ska kunna utvinna resurser,

550
00:24:54.630 --> 00:24:57.111
vi ska göra det här i samverkan internationellt,

551
00:24:57.131 --> 00:25:00.372
det ska vara fredligt och öppet för alla att få vara med.

552
00:25:01.032 --> 00:25:06.694
Samtidigt har vi den militära delen som är radikalt annorlunda och där bygger på misstänksamhet,

553
00:25:06.934 --> 00:25:08.174
osäkerhet och rädsla.

554
00:25:08.874 --> 00:25:15.436
Då kommer de här rapporterna om att är det så att Ryssland håller på att planera och placera ut någon form av kärnvapen.

555
00:25:15.636 --> 00:25:19.499
i rymden eller för att sabotera satelliter eller vad det nu kan vara för någonting.

556
00:25:20.419 --> 00:25:23.281
Vi vet att alla stora rymdnationer,

557
00:25:23.702 --> 00:25:23.962
Ryssland,

558
00:25:24.002 --> 00:25:24.182
Kina,

559
00:25:24.282 --> 00:25:25.123
USA åtminstone,

560
00:25:26.423 --> 00:25:29.305
och även Indien har förmåga till att skjuta ner satelliter,

561
00:25:29.606 --> 00:25:31.387
sådana här ASAT-system till exempel.

562
00:25:32.027 --> 00:25:35.069
Och fler och fler stater skapar sina egna rymdstrategier,

563
00:25:35.129 --> 00:25:39.432
rymddomänen är viktig för att föra krig på jorden och kanske i rymden i sig själv.

564
00:25:40.713 --> 00:25:45.036
Och för Space Force så finns det en militär sida även om de civila projekten.

565
00:25:45.296 --> 00:25:46.516
som Artemis-projektet.

566
00:25:47.057 --> 00:25:49.237
Om det nu blir rymdbas där,

567
00:25:49.898 --> 00:25:53.299
då pratar man ju i sina avtal om detta,

568
00:25:53.419 --> 00:25:54.799
något som kallas safety zones,

569
00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:55.879
alltså säkerhetszoner.

570
00:25:57.760 --> 00:25:59.100
Man ska inte kunna kolonisera,

571
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:04.702
för man hänvisar hela tiden till rymdfördraget från 1967.

572
00:26:04.722 --> 00:26:07.443
Man får inte kolonisera månen eller någon annan himlakropp.

573
00:26:08.823 --> 00:26:10.824
Men vi måste ju ändå kunna ha verksamhet där.

574
00:26:11.444 --> 00:26:23.374
Och även om det inte innebär ägande så måste vi kunna skydda den så att andra aktörer får inte komma och störa oss när vi är där och utvinner mineraler och bygger infrastruktur och sånt där.

575
00:26:23.894 --> 00:26:28.678
Och det där har ju då aktörer som Kina och Ryssland kritiserat hårt.

576
00:26:29.379 --> 00:26:34.883
De menar ju att det här är någon form av smygande koloniseringstaktik som USA håller på med.

577
00:26:35.304 --> 00:26:37.045
På tal om rymdfördraget,

578
00:26:37.586 --> 00:26:40.508
om det finns planer för kärnvapen?

579
00:26:41.188 --> 00:26:44.729
Om det finns planer som liknar kolonisering av himlakroppar,

580
00:26:45.209 --> 00:26:47.950
då är vi ju inne och bryter mot rymdfördraget.

581
00:26:48.450 --> 00:26:51.751
Har rymdfördraget spelat ut sin roll?

582
00:26:51.871 --> 00:26:51.991
Ja,

583
00:26:52.031 --> 00:26:53.952
det är en mycket intressant och viktig fråga.

584
00:26:54.012 --> 00:26:55.132
Ett par olika saker.

585
00:26:55.132 --> 00:26:59.013
Det handlar om att militära aktörer tar för sig,

586
00:26:59.113 --> 00:27:00.694
stater som har militär kapacitet,

587
00:27:01.314 --> 00:27:06.735
kanske kommer att bryta mot principerna i rymdfördraget genom att placera ut vapen,

588
00:27:06.815 --> 00:27:08.196
mastersförstörelsevapen,

589
00:27:08.216 --> 00:27:09.156
vilket är helt förbjudet.

590
00:27:09.356 --> 00:27:11.817
Man får egentligen inte ha militära övningar i rymden heller.

591
00:27:12.157 --> 00:27:16.399
Och inte använda rymden för något annat än fredliga syften.

592
00:27:16.939 --> 00:27:18.460
Så vad ska man då med Space Force till?

593
00:27:19.280 --> 00:27:21.801
Då bryter ju själva anmeningen i fördraget skulle jag säga.

594
00:27:22.761 --> 00:27:23.982
Och USA är ju inte ensamt om detta.

595
00:27:24.062 --> 00:27:31.725
De flesta stater har någon form av militära satelliter eller dual use satelliter och annan förmåga för att kunna kommunicera och övervaka och sådär.

596
00:27:32.525 --> 00:27:38.748
Men jag är orolig och jag mångar med mig att de här fina principerna i rymdfördraget.

597
00:27:39.408 --> 00:27:47.090
som ändå kom till i en tid där vi hade växande fienskap mellan Sovjetunionen och USA som var de enda rymdstaterna på

598
00:27:47.851 --> 00:27:48.191
50-60-talet.

599
00:27:48.971 --> 00:27:51.732
Att just stadfästa att okej,

600
00:27:51.932 --> 00:27:55.393
nu finns ju risk för världskrig igen som det var på 60-talet.

601
00:27:55.813 --> 00:28:00.854
Men då kan vi inte överföra det här och fortsätta med den här upprustningen,

602
00:28:00.894 --> 00:28:02.114
kapprustningen i rymden.

603
00:28:02.255 --> 00:28:03.195
Så sätt stopp för det.

604
00:28:03.795 --> 00:28:06.496
Låt rymden vara fri för forskning.

605
00:28:08.168 --> 00:28:10.269
Utforskning av att hitta liv där ute.

606
00:28:11.389 --> 00:28:12.509
Det här är viktigt för framtiden,

607
00:28:12.509 --> 00:28:13.710
för mänskligheten och allt sådant.

608
00:28:14.370 --> 00:28:17.671
Och byggde då på fördrag som fanns om Antarktis.

609
00:28:18.471 --> 00:28:20.451
Man kan inte kolonisera någon del av Antarktis.

610
00:28:20.751 --> 00:28:23.432
Den är till för vetenskaplig forskning för hela mänskligheten.

611
00:28:23.452 --> 00:28:26.793
Det är en allmänning egentligen.

612
00:28:26.973 --> 00:28:28.854
Så ser man på rymden enligt det här fördraget.

613
00:28:28.854 --> 00:28:30.994
Och det är ganska fina principer som ändå har hållit.

614
00:28:31.474 --> 00:28:35.696
Vi har inte haft någon rymdkrig ännu så kanske att det har haft någon betydelse ändå.

615
00:28:36.856 --> 00:28:37.036
Men...

616
00:28:37.432 --> 00:28:39.793
Med tanke på den här militariseringen som pågår,

617
00:28:40.333 --> 00:28:43.254
med tanke på att allt fler stater som ger sig ut dit,

618
00:28:43.734 --> 00:28:45.854
vad är det för ett stort politiska system de har?

619
00:28:45.894 --> 00:28:47.215
Det är ju inte demokratier.

620
00:28:47.755 --> 00:28:55.157
Och vi vet ju att Donald Trump är inte så noga med att följa avtal eller principer och gillar inte internationella sammanhang,

621
00:28:55.337 --> 00:28:56.617
multilaterala sammanhang.

622
00:28:56.757 --> 00:28:57.738
Utan vill ha deals,

623
00:28:57.898 --> 00:29:02.819
avtal med olika aktörer och gärna då andra auktoritära stater.

624
00:29:03.239 --> 00:29:05.880
Om det är Saudiarabien eller Ryssland eller vad det nu kan vara.

625
00:29:06.541 --> 00:29:08.189
Och så ser vi att Kina är en diktatur,

626
00:29:08.833 --> 00:29:09.959
Ryssland är en diktatur.

627
00:29:11.007 --> 00:29:15.828
Indien är på frammarsch i rymden också och har lyckats landa på månen som många vet.

628
00:29:16.228 --> 00:29:18.769
Men det är ju inte heller någon stark demokrati precis.

629
00:29:19.169 --> 00:29:22.270
Och om det är den här sorten stater som leder rymdverksamheten.

630
00:29:22.590 --> 00:29:25.811
Och sen i tillägg till det har vi privata aktörer som Elon Musk.

631
00:29:25.931 --> 00:29:29.892
Han är ju inte de förespråkare för demokrati och mänskliga rättigheter direkt.

632
00:29:30.472 --> 00:29:34.233
Kommer de här att kunna stå upp för de liberala principerna i rymdfördraget?

633
00:29:34.253 --> 00:29:35.554
Jag är väldigt tveksam till det.

634
00:29:36.254 --> 00:29:37.974
Så jag tror att det kommer att bli överspelat,

635
00:29:38.194 --> 00:29:38.835
tyvärr.

636
00:29:38.835 --> 00:29:39.855
Vad är den gemensamma...

637
00:29:40.115 --> 00:29:44.919
drivkraften för de här länderna och staterna att faktiskt satsa på rymd?

638
00:29:45.299 --> 00:29:46.460
Det finns ju flera drivkrafter.

639
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:53.286
Det handlar om ekonomiska drivkrafter vetenskapliga och även militära naturligtvis.

640
00:29:54.727 --> 00:29:59.270
Men sen finns det ju en drivkraft som handlar om prestige status.

641
00:30:00.291 --> 00:30:01.332
Och det ska man inte underskatta.

642
00:30:01.632 --> 00:30:04.655
Det är sånt som gärna statsledare talar om.

643
00:30:05.091 --> 00:30:07.632
Men även företagsledare och även inom forskningen.

644
00:30:07.832 --> 00:30:11.653
Det är ju värt någonting att vara den som upptäcker liv ut i rymden först.

645
00:30:11.973 --> 00:30:13.233
Kommer du få Nobelpris kanske.

646
00:30:14.274 --> 00:30:20.075
Och vara den som först når framåt och publicerar någonting först de upptäckte i rymden.

647
00:30:20.655 --> 00:30:23.376
För forskare är ju prestige och status otroligt viktigt.

648
00:30:23.416 --> 00:30:24.536
Det är en drivkraft i sig.

649
00:30:25.157 --> 00:30:26.857
Och så kan det vara inom näringslivet också.

650
00:30:26.877 --> 00:30:30.578
Att vara den som först bygger en privat bas på någon himlakropp.

651
00:30:31.018 --> 00:30:34.199
Den som först lyckas bryta mineraler på mars till exempel.

652
00:30:34.439 --> 00:30:37.140
Kommer det inte bara ge ekonomisk vinning utan status,

653
00:30:37.180 --> 00:30:37.700
prestige?

654
00:30:38.520 --> 00:30:45.702
För en så enormt rik person som Elon Musk så är ytterligare några miljarder kanske inte så viktigt.

655
00:30:45.742 --> 00:30:48.963
Utan det är just att skriva in sig i världshistorien.

656
00:30:49.223 --> 00:30:52.324
Det tror jag faktiskt är en enorm drivkraft både inom politiken,

657
00:30:52.424 --> 00:30:53.764
ekonomin och forskningen.

658
00:30:55.325 --> 00:30:55.765
Absolut,

659
00:30:56.265 --> 00:30:57.385
strävan efter status.

660
00:30:57.625 --> 00:30:59.466
Det här är ju inte bara något jag spekulerar kring.

661
00:30:59.986 --> 00:31:03.047
Forskningen om internationell politik pekar ju på det.

662
00:31:03.555 --> 00:31:07.116
Hur ledare för stora stater drivs av att,

663
00:31:07.677 --> 00:31:09.237
ska vi vara en modern stat,

664
00:31:09.357 --> 00:31:10.558
ska vi vara en stormakt,

665
00:31:10.558 --> 00:31:11.438
ska vi vara en supermakt,

666
00:31:11.658 --> 00:31:13.659
då behöver du ha ett framgångsrikt rymdprogram.

667
00:31:13.659 --> 00:31:14.500
Det är en del av det.

668
00:31:15.580 --> 00:31:18.621
Och då bemannade rymdfärder är det finaste du kan ha.

669
00:31:21.763 --> 00:31:22.883
Hur går rymdrejset?

670
00:31:23.143 --> 00:31:27.385
Det man kan säga är att det är USA och Kina som är de ledande aktörerna.

671
00:31:28.145 --> 00:31:31.627
USA är väl fortfarande kraftfullast på alla möjliga sätt.

672
00:31:32.047 --> 00:31:32.587
Med hjälp av...

673
00:31:32.807 --> 00:31:36.308
av näringslivet med olika delar som

674
00:31:36.648 --> 00:31:38.949
Jeff Bezos företag och Elon Musk,

675
00:31:39.009 --> 00:31:39.909
SpaceX och liknande.

676
00:31:39.969 --> 00:31:42.570
Men också andra de äldre rymdindustrierna.

677
00:31:42.690 --> 00:31:45.071
Lockheed Martin är ju viktiga för Artemis till exempel.

678
00:31:45.731 --> 00:31:51.573
Men sen är det Kina som har lyckats ett par gånger att landa med obemannade farkoster på månen.

679
00:31:52.253 --> 00:31:54.374
Indien har ju lyckats med detta.

680
00:31:55.094 --> 00:31:58.035
Vilket man gjorde två dagar efter att Ryssland försökte men kraschade.

681
00:31:59.027 --> 00:32:02.729
Det var första gången Ryssland försökte detta sedan sovjet-tiden.

682
00:32:03.370 --> 00:32:09.293
Men att man kraschade var symboliskt som visar på Rysslands tillbakagång som en ledande rymdenation.

683
00:32:10.574 --> 00:32:14.696
Man menar hela tiden att vi måste ha en egen uppskjutningsförmåga.

684
00:32:15.096 --> 00:32:22.540
Vi måste ha en oberoende kraft i rymden och utmana USA som man ser som den stora andre som man hela tiden mäter sig med.

685
00:32:23.061 --> 00:32:27.143
I Ryssland vill man inte riktigt jämföra sig med Kina även om man samverkar med Kina.

686
00:32:27.483 --> 00:32:29.123
Så nu tror jag att vi kommer att se nu,

687
00:32:29.544 --> 00:32:30.764
om det nu blir någonting på månen,

688
00:32:30.764 --> 00:32:36.125
då har vi de här Artemis-programmet som är en internationell koalition med ett femtiotal stater som leds av USA.

689
00:32:36.886 --> 00:32:37.726
Sverige är med på törn.

690
00:32:38.406 --> 00:32:43.808
Och sen har vi då den här internationella månforskningsstationen som Kina och Ryssland leder.

691
00:32:43.928 --> 00:32:45.528
Men det är ytterligare ett tiotal,

692
00:32:45.708 --> 00:32:46.928
tretton stater eller så,

693
00:32:47.649 --> 00:32:48.429
som vill vara med.

694
00:32:48.769 --> 00:32:50.889
Så det kommer att bli kraftmätning där.

695
00:32:51.010 --> 00:32:53.050
Och det gäller ju även kanske nya rymdstationer.

696
00:32:53.130 --> 00:32:56.251
Kina har ju redan en rymdstation i omlopp.

697
00:32:57.283 --> 00:33:05.548
Den här internationella rymdstationen som Ryssland och USA byggde tillsammans med Europa och Kanada och Japan kommer att avvecklas om några år.

698
00:33:05.708 --> 00:33:08.930
I USA pratar man att man inte kommer att bygga någonting med hjälp av NASA,

699
00:33:08.950 --> 00:33:10.712
i sådana fall får näringslivet göra sånt där.

700
00:33:11.092 --> 00:33:12.233
Så det är många fler aktörer.

701
00:33:13.273 --> 00:33:18.997
Det är ju också mer ovisst hur de här relationerna kommer att utvecklas.

702
00:33:19.677 --> 00:33:21.198
Det är mer svårförsäkrat,

703
00:33:21.218 --> 00:33:22.339
men det är att det är turbulent.

704
00:33:22.867 --> 00:33:23.748
Att det är många aktörer,

705
00:33:23.768 --> 00:33:25.809
det är en omfattande maktkamp och statusjakt,

706
00:33:25.889 --> 00:33:27.150
det vet vi i alla fall.

707
00:33:27.450 --> 00:33:35.336
Vilken roll kan Europa ta som vi ändå står upp för det här och som ändå gillar rymdfrådraget?

708
00:33:35.877 --> 00:33:36.637
Vilken roll kan vi ta?

709
00:33:36.837 --> 00:33:43.122
Jag tror att vi har en väldigt viktig roll tillsammans med de andra demokratierna som vi har i Europa,

710
00:33:43.402 --> 00:33:45.644
också tillsammans med Kanada och Japan.

711
00:33:45.784 --> 00:33:49.167
Vi måste ju visa någon form av front att vi står upp inte bara för...

712
00:33:50.307 --> 00:33:55.530
En fredlig rymdverksamhet men också för de här liberala principerna om hur vi bör agera.

713
00:33:55.790 --> 00:33:57.371
Och det har ju Sverige ändå gjort tycker jag.

714
00:33:58.272 --> 00:34:06.776
Till exempel är man väldigt tydlig med att man måste sätta stopp för antisatellitester som bara ökar rymdskrotet och skapar större osäkerhet.

715
00:34:07.116 --> 00:34:15.801
Jag menar att Sverige även om rösten kanske inte hörs så mycket utanför just de rymddiplomatiska sammanhangen ändå är tydligt för de här värderingarna.

716
00:34:21.369 --> 00:34:25.770
Oförutsägbar kan man väl säga om den amerikanska politiken i stort just nu.

717
00:34:26.710 --> 00:34:33.232
Men vi kan konstatera att drygt 60 dagar in i presidentskapet rörde på sig även på rymdmyndigheterna.

718
00:34:34.072 --> 00:34:46.196
Så om man brukar säga att de hundra första dagarna är viktiga för en president för att få saker gjorda så får vi väl helt enkelt återkomma till frågan om sista där 40 dagar för att se vad som mer har hänt då.

719
00:34:46.736 --> 00:34:46.856
Ja,

720
00:34:47.516 --> 00:34:50.797
kanske har det presenterats någon plan för vad man ska ha istället?

721
00:34:51.057 --> 00:34:52.839
för det som nu monteras ner.

722
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:53.799
Ja,

723
00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:54.560
hur som helst.

724
00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:58.543
Vi kommer att fortsätta följa hur det går i amerikansk rymd.

725
00:34:58.843 --> 00:35:00.905
Men självklart också i svensk rymd.

726
00:35:01.606 --> 00:35:06.169
Snart blir det ett samtal med rymdstyrelsens nya generaldirektör Ella Karlsson i Votme.

727
00:35:06.590 --> 00:35:07.330
Det ska bli kul!

728
00:35:07.691 --> 00:35:07.811
Ja,

729
00:35:08.651 --> 00:35:16.057
och som Johan nämnde här så är det idag Kina som är den andra stora tävlanden i Space Racet bredvid USA.

730
00:35:16.838 --> 00:35:18.119
Kina i rymden,

731
00:35:18.419 --> 00:35:19.821
det kommer vi att prata om framöver.

732
00:35:20.441 --> 00:35:23.903
Men vi får ju inte glömma bort allt det som inte är politik i rymden.

733
00:35:24.263 --> 00:35:26.524
Som fysik och astronomi och sånt.

734
00:35:26.965 --> 00:35:29.926
Snart blir det ett återbesök i de svarta hålen.

735
00:35:30.287 --> 00:35:32.328
Så får vi se hur vi tar oss vidare från det sen.

736
00:35:32.908 --> 00:35:34.669
Det låter ju sig inte göra så lätt.

737
00:35:34.989 --> 00:35:36.490
Det som låter i bakgrunden,

738
00:35:36.750 --> 00:35:37.751
det är vår musik.

739
00:35:38.091 --> 00:35:39.692
Skriven av Armin Pendek.

740
00:35:40.032 --> 00:35:41.333
Jag heter Marcus Pettersson.

741
00:35:41.653 --> 00:35:43.254
Jag heter Susanna Levenhaupt.

742
00:35:43.614 --> 00:35:44.435
Har vi åkt i marsen,

743
00:35:44.635 --> 00:35:45.315
görs på Beppo,

744
00:35:45.675 --> 00:35:46.796
av Rundfunk Media,

745
00:35:47.076 --> 00:35:48.457
i samarbete med Saab.

746
00:36:08.873 --> 00:36:11.314
Om du skulle säga ett best case scenario?

747
00:36:11.935 --> 00:36:14.276
Ett best case scenario är att

748
00:36:14.776 --> 00:36:24.562
Trump-administrationen med sina rådgivare ändå lyssnar på experterna och säger att vi måste ju ändå behålla den här kompetensen vi har inom NASA och övre i vår rymdverksamhet.

749
00:36:25.362 --> 00:36:26.603
Vi kan inte bara låta dem försvinna.

750
00:36:26.863 --> 00:36:30.385
De flesta är väldigt engagerade,

751
00:36:30.465 --> 00:36:31.105
dedikerade,

752
00:36:31.986 --> 00:36:35.928
jobbar dygnet runt för att bevaka allting man gör och är otroligt duktiga.

753
00:36:36.128 --> 00:36:36.968
Att bara släppa det,

754
00:36:37.209 --> 00:36:37.829
vind för våg.

755
00:36:39.506 --> 00:36:40.126
Det kan vi inte göra.

756
00:36:40.246 --> 00:36:41.867
Så att någon måste in och säga stopp och blägg.

757
00:36:41.867 --> 00:36:42.947
Nu får det vara nog.

758
00:36:44.228 --> 00:36:44.608
Dels det,

759
00:36:45.089 --> 00:36:46.289
att det inte är kompetenser för sina.

760
00:36:46.329 --> 00:36:50.912
Men också att det ungefär som hände under kalla kriget när rymdfördraget kom till.

761
00:36:51.252 --> 00:36:55.514
För det var ju en tid av uppkapprustning mellan Sovjet och USA med kärnvapen.

762
00:36:56.054 --> 00:36:57.995
Och sen som höll på att flyttas ut i rymden.

763
00:36:58.556 --> 00:37:03.919
Och då var det ju ändå kloka människor kring de här regeringarna i

764
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:07.060
Moskva och Washington som sa men stopp och blägg,

765
00:37:07.060 --> 00:37:07.901
vi kan inte...

766
00:37:08.585 --> 00:37:10.626
få ett fullskaligt krig i rymden också.

767
00:37:10.926 --> 00:37:12.547
Vi måste ha olika principer för detta.

768
00:37:12.567 --> 00:37:14.308
Så att man måste sätta ner foten.

769
00:37:14.668 --> 00:37:16.769
Vi kan inte hålla på att skrämma bort våra vänner.

770
00:37:16.949 --> 00:37:21.571
Vi måste ändå hålla på vissa principer och lagar och regler måste kunna gälla i rymden också.

771
00:37:22.151 --> 00:37:24.592
Så att rymduplomatin får ett uppsvigg ändå.

772
00:37:26.673 --> 00:37:27.553
Det är det bästa separat.

773
00:37:43.433 --> 00:37:43.714
Hallå,

774
00:37:44.756 --> 00:37:46.240
programmet gjordes av

775
00:37:46.861 --> 00:37:48.104
Rundfunk Media.