WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.900 --> 00:00:04.660 Hi there and welcome back to the Deep Seed podcast. 2 00:00:05.220 --> 00:00:16.164 In today's episode we revisit the key principles of regenerative agriculture but with someone who spent his whole life working on farms and especially on regenerative farms, 3 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:17.742 Nicolas Verscure. 4 00:00:19.164 --> 00:00:22.851 Even if you're already quite familiar with the key pillars of region ag, 5 00:00:23.023 --> 00:00:25.023 things like using cover crops, 6 00:00:25.804 --> 00:00:26.711 reducing tillage, 7 00:00:26.789 --> 00:00:30.414 reducing chemical use and all of these beautiful things that we've spoken about, 8 00:00:30.936 --> 00:00:32.458 a lot of times on the podcast. 9 00:00:32.958 --> 00:00:33.099 Well, 10 00:00:33.118 --> 00:00:35.642 this episode will still teach you something new, 11 00:00:36.263 --> 00:00:42.689 because the views that Nicolas is expressing in this interview are deeply rooted in practical experience. 12 00:00:43.048 --> 00:00:46.134 He has spent his whole life and whole career, 13 00:00:46.189 --> 00:00:47.579 so several decades, 14 00:00:48.017 --> 00:00:49.970 actually working on farms as a farmer, 15 00:00:50.189 --> 00:00:51.142 as a farm manager, 16 00:00:51.314 --> 00:00:52.079 as an advisor, 17 00:00:52.080 --> 00:00:52.860 as an agronomist. 18 00:00:53.454 --> 00:01:00.001 So he has this extensive on-the-ground knowledge of what transitioning to region actually looks like. 19 00:01:00.492 --> 00:01:01.072 And therefore, 20 00:01:01.092 --> 00:01:06.853 he truly understands the complexity and the nuances that farming requires, 21 00:01:06.932 --> 00:01:15.498 especially when we're talking about evolving from a simplified linear system into a much more complex and diverse one. 22 00:01:16.537 --> 00:01:19.381 This episode was made in partnership with Soil Capital. 23 00:01:19.818 --> 00:01:20.490 I am your host, 24 00:01:20.600 --> 00:01:21.100 Raphael, 25 00:01:21.303 --> 00:01:23.131 and this is the Deep Seed Podcast. 26 00:01:31.264 --> 00:01:31.384 So, 27 00:01:32.586 --> 00:01:33.346 first principle, 28 00:01:33.547 --> 00:01:36.367 we try to minimize the soil disturbance, 29 00:01:36.570 --> 00:01:37.090 the tillage. 30 00:01:37.969 --> 00:01:40.031 In many of my experience, 31 00:01:40.109 --> 00:01:45.555 this is something that is implementable in different countries, 32 00:01:45.797 --> 00:01:46.516 different weather, 33 00:01:46.781 --> 00:01:47.000 again, 34 00:01:47.062 --> 00:01:47.617 different crops. 35 00:01:48.383 --> 00:01:48.508 So, 36 00:01:49.164 --> 00:01:51.508 decreasing the number of passes, 37 00:01:51.789 --> 00:01:56.227 decreasing the aggressivity of mixing the soil, 38 00:01:56.242 --> 00:01:57.695 the different layers of the soil, 39 00:01:58.383 --> 00:01:59.852 is what we are trying to do. 40 00:02:00.300 --> 00:02:16.410 okay it doesn't mean that we don't want to uh to work the soil i think that in in a certain number of cases this is possible to really stop um touching the soil or nearly uh this is what we call the direct 41 00:02:16.472 --> 00:02:22.785 seeding zero tillage but in many cases unfortunately we still have to 42 00:02:24.652 --> 00:02:43.588 touch the soil to till the soil most of the most of the time because the mechanization we are using to harvest or to do the different operation that follows this the drilling the seeding is actually impacting the soil structure and so the tillage is 43 00:02:43.589 --> 00:02:46.791 an artificial way of restoring the soil structure 44 00:02:47.416 --> 00:02:49.838 And I haven't seen today, 45 00:02:50.994 --> 00:02:51.681 unfortunately, 46 00:02:52.260 --> 00:02:53.306 examples of... 47 00:02:54.380 --> 00:03:06.222 a soil that is so healthy that it could be it could restructure itself without any tillage after a few passes of 48 00:03:07.048 --> 00:03:28.189 heavy machinery for the harvest so first principle so so tilling just to sort of clarify uh so tilling is when you you really take the soil and you break it up into plowing yeah um and it has advantages like you said for the soil structure to make sure the the plants the seed can grow in that soil right and 49 00:03:28.190 --> 00:03:35.267 the air and water can infiltrate and the roots have space to grow and all of these things but at the same time it's quite detrimental to the soil health 50 00:03:36.732 --> 00:03:37.093 Exactly. 51 00:03:37.213 --> 00:03:49.306 So the tillage is known to be an activity that is not helping the soil microbiology and the soil life to rebuild itself, 52 00:03:49.642 --> 00:03:50.205 to thrive. 53 00:03:51.025 --> 00:03:52.228 So we try to minimize that. 54 00:03:52.345 --> 00:03:58.353 And it's important to say that during these last 25, 55 00:03:58.400 --> 00:03:58.994 30 years, 56 00:03:59.322 --> 00:04:04.556 we've seen a certain number of cases of farmers who were trying to... 57 00:04:04.872 --> 00:04:11.080 implement or to apply this no tillage principle too dogmatically. 58 00:04:12.061 --> 00:04:23.065 And I think that it's important to mention that because this can lead to some failures and in certain geography, 59 00:04:23.986 --> 00:04:24.940 with certain weather, 60 00:04:25.065 --> 00:04:25.611 certain crop, 61 00:04:26.080 --> 00:04:27.971 this has been not a disaster, 62 00:04:28.049 --> 00:04:29.049 but people had to... 63 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:39.471 go backwards because this pure principle of not touching the soil was not possible. 64 00:04:39.807 --> 00:04:39.948 Yeah, 65 00:04:40.151 --> 00:04:40.549 so I see. 66 00:04:41.909 --> 00:04:50.784 The dream scenario would be that your soil is so healthy and the structure is so amazing that you could plant your seeds directly into it without tilling. 67 00:04:51.081 --> 00:04:51.206 Yeah. 68 00:04:51.346 --> 00:04:55.159 But it's almost never truly the case that farmers can do that. 69 00:04:55.190 --> 00:05:00.002 And so there's different levels of how much tilling the farmer can do. 70 00:05:00.088 --> 00:05:20.403 do so by reducing the number of you said the number of passes and the number of time you till a soil per year yeah reducing what the depth also yeah the depth the intensity the shape of the blade you use to avoid actually the different horizons of the soil to be mixed trying 71 00:05:20.434 --> 00:05:28.481 to keep the the residues on top of the soil and not having the soil naked and and make the residues of the previous crop 72 00:05:28.948 --> 00:05:30.030 integrate it in the soil. 73 00:05:30.549 --> 00:05:32.692 Those are all very valid principles, 74 00:05:32.813 --> 00:05:34.153 but they are principles, 75 00:05:34.154 --> 00:05:34.914 they are not rules. 76 00:05:36.317 --> 00:05:39.895 So the idea basically is to try and disturb the soil as little as possible, 77 00:05:40.340 --> 00:05:42.340 so that the microbial life can thrive. 78 00:05:43.262 --> 00:05:46.832 We have the earthworms and the mycorrhizal fungi growing, 79 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:47.489 all of these things, 80 00:05:47.490 --> 00:05:47.989 and they're really, 81 00:05:48.051 --> 00:05:49.895 really important for soil health. 82 00:05:50.770 --> 00:05:53.098 And we're trying to disturb that as little as possible, 83 00:05:53.395 --> 00:05:53.614 but... 84 00:05:54.272 --> 00:06:11.141 we still need to our crops to grow without being dogmatic and having your shovel to check if you are if you have compaction in your soil and if the soil life is not able to rest to restructure that unfortunately you have to help this community 85 00:06:11.313 --> 00:06:22.844 or life to do the job just a quick post to tell you about the official partner of the deep seed podcast soil capital so soil capital is a company that 86 00:06:23.024 --> 00:06:30.049 accelerate the transition to regenerative agriculture by financially rewarding farmers who improve the health of their soils. 87 00:06:30.913 --> 00:06:34.913 And God knows we need to accelerate that regenerative transition. 88 00:06:34.936 --> 00:06:35.999 And that's the reason why 89 00:06:36.553 --> 00:06:42.022 I'm a big fan of Soil Capital and I'm really proud to be partnering with them for the Deep Seed podcast. 90 00:06:44.100 --> 00:06:44.303 Okay, 91 00:06:44.413 --> 00:06:47.241 so moving on from soil disturbance and tillage to... 92 00:06:47.663 --> 00:06:47.835 Yeah. 93 00:06:48.147 --> 00:06:51.397 So second principle is the fact that we... 94 00:06:53.840 --> 00:07:08.715 like to have the soil covered with living plants all year round so that's the the goal practically this means that in region act you try to have a 95 00:07:08.777 --> 00:07:19.082 crop or what we call the cover crop between the cash crop in your fields living thriving growing in your fields all year round and 96 00:07:19.976 --> 00:07:20.697 And that's, 97 00:07:22.698 --> 00:07:22.960 again, 98 00:07:23.059 --> 00:07:23.360 something, 99 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:27.663 a principle that has to be adapted because in the real life, 100 00:07:28.260 --> 00:07:29.909 when you have harvested your field, 101 00:07:30.448 --> 00:07:33.909 you need some time to apply compost, 102 00:07:33.987 --> 00:07:34.448 soil. 103 00:07:34.906 --> 00:07:43.351 to do some weeding to avoid to have too much thistles or other grasses. 104 00:07:44.054 --> 00:07:46.960 If you want to reduce your herbicide consumption, 105 00:07:47.054 --> 00:07:51.929 sometimes mechanical work will be necessary to control those weeds. 106 00:07:52.038 --> 00:07:58.273 So practically between two cycles of crop or after one harvest, 107 00:07:58.663 --> 00:08:02.929 you have sometimes a few weeks of soil without. 108 00:08:03.080 --> 00:08:18.837 coverage and that's something in certain number of case we should accept what we are trying to advise to integrate in many of the farms we work with is to integrate what we call a permanent or semi-permanent pasture 109 00:08:19.056 --> 00:08:28.946 so in a rotation with the different cash crop and the different cover crop between the cash crop we're trying to integrate every 110 00:08:29.856 --> 00:08:30.297 10 years, 111 00:08:31.178 --> 00:08:38.147 one or two years of pasture or so a moment where the soil is not touched, 112 00:08:38.584 --> 00:08:41.326 is fully covered with the pasture. 113 00:08:42.029 --> 00:08:48.959 That seems to be very efficient to give a boost of health to your soil. 114 00:08:49.803 --> 00:08:51.037 In organic agriculture, 115 00:08:51.053 --> 00:08:55.568 this is also a moment where we can produce nitrogen if you cover 116 00:08:55.968 --> 00:09:07.236 your soil with legumes to produce some some nitrogen for the next crop so that's the second principle soil coverage yeah um yeah 117 00:09:07.516 --> 00:09:07.636 Yeah, 118 00:09:07.656 --> 00:09:07.896 I see. 119 00:09:09.298 --> 00:09:09.458 Well, 120 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:17.464 you're talking about these short periods of time between crops where sometimes you have to keep the soil bare for a few days or a few weeks. 121 00:09:17.808 --> 00:09:18.628 Yeah. 122 00:09:18.629 --> 00:09:22.128 But the reality is that when I'm driving through the countryside in the winter, 123 00:09:22.972 --> 00:09:24.206 almost everything is bare. 124 00:09:24.425 --> 00:09:25.800 All of the farmland that 125 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:28.362 I see is actually bare. 126 00:09:28.925 --> 00:09:30.097 What you're saying here is that... 127 00:09:31.188 --> 00:09:46.947 um you should avoid that as much as possible and you should have your soil covered at all times with a living plant with a living root in the soil yeah um so maybe you could explain why that is so important the the reason for that um is 128 00:09:46.986 --> 00:09:59.932 actually there are multiple reasons for that to be uh to be short uh you have to see a field that is green like a solar panel that would 129 00:10:00.020 --> 00:10:01.902 produce electricity. 130 00:10:02.402 --> 00:10:08.867 So a field that is green means that it's a field where you have plants, 131 00:10:08.868 --> 00:10:13.852 crop who are active with their photosynthesis, 132 00:10:14.852 --> 00:10:16.609 meaning that they are producing 133 00:10:17.544 --> 00:10:32.420 transforming the sunlight into sugar and the sugar are feeding the plant but also feeding the soil and they are producing biomass they're producing potential food for the soil and the next crop so 134 00:10:33.138 --> 00:10:46.810 each time you see a green field it means that this field is active okay if you don't have that that coverage if you see a brown field this means that the soil is not covered with plants not no photos 135 00:10:47.260 --> 00:10:47.801 synthesis, 136 00:10:48.522 --> 00:10:50.082 and therefore no activity. 137 00:10:50.823 --> 00:10:51.827 The field is not active, 138 00:10:51.885 --> 00:10:53.245 the soil is not regenerating, 139 00:10:54.506 --> 00:10:57.069 the microbes in the soil are not fed, 140 00:10:57.788 --> 00:10:59.248 and this is a soil that is actually, 141 00:11:00.170 --> 00:11:01.053 in the best case, 142 00:11:01.772 --> 00:11:04.241 in a standby situation, 143 00:11:04.881 --> 00:11:06.084 but in most of the case, 144 00:11:06.303 --> 00:11:09.147 in a potentially phase of degradation, 145 00:11:09.444 --> 00:11:12.100 because on top of the fact that it is not 146 00:11:12.784 --> 00:11:14.625 photosynthetically active, 147 00:11:15.206 --> 00:11:19.772 is not also covered and protected from the rain to erosion, 148 00:11:19.991 --> 00:11:21.276 from the wind to erosion. 149 00:11:22.213 --> 00:11:26.456 And so this is a soil that in most of the case is losing fertility. 150 00:11:26.956 --> 00:11:32.245 So that's the basic principle of a soil to be covered with living plants. 151 00:11:32.526 --> 00:11:32.760 Right, 152 00:11:32.901 --> 00:11:33.026 yeah. 153 00:11:34.026 --> 00:11:37.104 I remembered something I learned in a previous episode with a soil scientist. 154 00:11:37.151 --> 00:11:41.417 We were talking about mycorrhizal fungi so these are like the mushroom 155 00:11:41.804 --> 00:11:59.195 networks in the soil that connect with the roots of plants right and they're really really helpful because they can go very very far away from the plants and collect nutrients and water and whatever the plant needs so they're super charging the the soil fertility and and health right and 156 00:11:59.789 --> 00:12:09.914 i remember she she explained that the those fungi they cannot survive without a living root they need a living root as a companion to survive and so if you leave a soil bear for too long i guess 157 00:12:10.640 --> 00:12:13.062 they cannot survive on your field and you lose all of them. 158 00:12:13.583 --> 00:12:16.605 Another good reason to keep your soil covered at all times. 159 00:12:17.487 --> 00:12:18.366 That's clear. 160 00:12:19.210 --> 00:12:21.171 I'm not a soil scientist. 161 00:12:21.390 --> 00:12:24.796 I'm not sure that they can't survive at all. 162 00:12:25.077 --> 00:12:29.335 But it is clear that you will not go in the direction of development of those mycorrhizae. 163 00:12:30.273 --> 00:12:31.819 And the first principle, 164 00:12:32.038 --> 00:12:32.398 tillage, 165 00:12:32.601 --> 00:12:33.382 and the second one, 166 00:12:34.038 --> 00:12:35.679 soil coverage, 167 00:12:36.444 --> 00:12:39.148 both principles are actually important for those. 168 00:12:39.648 --> 00:12:43.790 mycorrhizae because the tillage is actually also damaging the hyphae, 169 00:12:43.868 --> 00:12:46.751 so all the branches of those fungi. 170 00:12:48.751 --> 00:12:51.868 So in the case here of soil coverage, 171 00:12:52.548 --> 00:12:54.368 it sounds like it has only benefits. 172 00:12:54.650 --> 00:12:56.736 It's protecting the soil from wind, 173 00:12:56.814 --> 00:12:58.095 from rain and erosion. 174 00:12:59.126 --> 00:13:01.470 It's producing a lot of photosynthesis, 175 00:13:01.517 --> 00:13:03.986 which is feeding the microbiology in the soil. 176 00:13:04.861 --> 00:13:06.470 The roots are growing everywhere in the soil, 177 00:13:06.501 --> 00:13:08.111 so it's helping with soil structure. 178 00:13:08.624 --> 00:13:08.844 I mean, 179 00:13:08.845 --> 00:13:09.985 it seems to have only benefits. 180 00:13:10.206 --> 00:13:14.729 What's the reason why you don't see that more in the fields out in the winter? 181 00:13:15.331 --> 00:13:17.456 Those benefits are coming with a lot of challenges. 182 00:13:18.057 --> 00:13:19.252 I was talking about slugs, 183 00:13:19.253 --> 00:13:19.815 for example. 184 00:13:20.635 --> 00:13:29.088 Slugs love to have fields or soil covered and protection to survive and to multiply. 185 00:13:29.557 --> 00:13:33.260 So the first risk a farmer would see, 186 00:13:33.651 --> 00:13:33.776 well, 187 00:13:33.792 --> 00:13:34.292 not the first, 188 00:13:34.307 --> 00:13:38.010 but one risk a farmer would see having a soil that is it. 189 00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:53.894 covered is the is the slug problem is okay this is i'm actually multiplying a pest here so the next crop will be very challenging because you'll have all these uh little slugs uh willing to eat my my crop so that's uh first 190 00:13:53.933 --> 00:14:06.582 thing uh that i have that is popping up in my mind the second thing is um a very uh simple challenge how do you seed how do you put a seed in a soil that is uh not 191 00:14:07.108 --> 00:14:26.005 clean and bare like the well-plowed fields and we say in the common language a clean field a clean soil how do you put a seed in a soil that is covered with a lot of residues it's technically more challenging but this is also a 192 00:14:26.037 --> 00:14:35.677 bottleneck for a farmer who as you said the common sense would push him to cover his soil but there is a technical uh right technical challenge 193 00:14:36.140 --> 00:14:44.845 meaning that probably these farmers have to invest in a new machine that is able to cut the residues and to properly put the seed in the right place. 194 00:14:44.846 --> 00:14:47.611 So that's one thing. 195 00:14:47.650 --> 00:14:49.650 There is another important challenge, 196 00:14:49.673 --> 00:14:50.994 which is the soil temperature. 197 00:14:52.212 --> 00:14:52.931 In our countries, 198 00:14:52.962 --> 00:14:53.541 in the North, 199 00:14:54.478 --> 00:14:56.994 compared to Latin America and in the South, 200 00:14:57.619 --> 00:14:59.900 soil temperature is a driver. 201 00:15:00.472 --> 00:15:01.493 for the start of the crop, 202 00:15:02.314 --> 00:15:03.535 for the germination of the crop. 203 00:15:04.236 --> 00:15:20.709 So covering a soil with a lot of residue and having a seed that is supposed to germinate in this soil could be challenging because this soil will always be a few degrees lower than a soil that is bare. 204 00:15:22.033 --> 00:15:23.755 So that's another challenge, 205 00:15:23.813 --> 00:15:24.675 just to give you a few. 206 00:15:24.796 --> 00:15:24.915 Yeah, 207 00:15:25.075 --> 00:15:25.755 that's great. 208 00:15:25.934 --> 00:15:26.798 That's what I wanted to know. 209 00:15:27.880 --> 00:15:34.263 I hear so much about the benefits and I'm trying to understand what are the challenges and the price as well. 210 00:15:34.481 --> 00:15:34.622 Yeah, 211 00:15:34.623 --> 00:15:35.466 and just to be clear, 212 00:15:36.067 --> 00:15:37.591 and we will not go into the details, 213 00:15:37.622 --> 00:15:39.544 but those three first challenges, 214 00:15:40.372 --> 00:15:41.309 we can tackle that. 215 00:15:43.247 --> 00:15:43.700 The slugs, 216 00:15:43.701 --> 00:15:45.294 you can organize your rotation differently. 217 00:15:45.403 --> 00:15:48.778 You can also disturb your slugs without plowing the soils. 218 00:15:49.292 --> 00:16:05.466 the soil temperature you can also compensate uh the lack of temperature with a little bit of tillage in the in the line of the seeds to open up a little bit the soil if you put certain micronutrients you can also give the boost that the the seed would have had 219 00:16:05.669 --> 00:16:18.060 with the temperature but with a more of a micronutrient so there are ways to do but i mean this is more complex and to your question cky you had people not doing that uh it's so obvious 220 00:16:18.768 --> 00:16:25.928 This complexity and the risk going together with this complexity is a reason why everybody's not doing that. 221 00:16:26.370 --> 00:16:26.550 Right, 222 00:16:26.551 --> 00:16:28.190 the complexity is really the key here. 223 00:16:28.550 --> 00:16:33.331 It's really complexifying a system and it means you have to learn new concepts, 224 00:16:33.370 --> 00:16:35.229 you have to maybe invest in new machinery, 225 00:16:35.276 --> 00:16:37.339 you have to change the way you are doing things. 226 00:16:37.510 --> 00:16:39.229 That's hard by definition. 227 00:16:39.276 --> 00:16:39.385 Yeah, 228 00:16:39.448 --> 00:16:40.245 that's not true, 229 00:16:40.246 --> 00:16:40.917 I would say. 230 00:16:40.948 --> 00:16:41.479 Yeah, 231 00:16:41.917 --> 00:16:42.354 makes sense. 232 00:16:42.635 --> 00:16:42.854 Okay. 233 00:16:44.057 --> 00:16:44.589 So yeah, 234 00:16:44.590 --> 00:16:47.573 we talked about the tillage and cover crops. 235 00:16:48.244 --> 00:16:48.364 Yeah, 236 00:16:48.905 --> 00:16:49.546 soil coverage. 237 00:16:49.665 --> 00:16:56.913 There is another principle that we are trying to develop again in different ways. 238 00:16:57.655 --> 00:17:01.155 This is the reduction of the agrochemicals, 239 00:17:02.155 --> 00:17:03.101 the petrochemicals, 240 00:17:04.921 --> 00:17:10.530 all the inputs that you apply in the fields that are coming from chemistry. 241 00:17:10.983 --> 00:17:11.483 Not chemistry, 242 00:17:11.546 --> 00:17:15.187 it is not probably the right word because everything is coming from chemistry. 243 00:17:15.233 --> 00:17:15.812 but uh 244 00:17:16.148 --> 00:17:18.409 that are based on petrochemicals, 245 00:17:18.431 --> 00:17:23.156 I'm talking about the mineral fertilizers and the pesticides, 246 00:17:23.734 --> 00:17:38.765 it is more and more clear that those products that we use to assist the crop to grow haven't been always developed 247 00:17:38.952 --> 00:17:42.796 with the idea to not harm the soil health. 248 00:17:43.689 --> 00:17:50.974 And so we are trying to minimize the usage of those products. 249 00:17:51.435 --> 00:17:54.279 For some products like the fungicide and insecticides, 250 00:17:54.841 --> 00:17:55.560 it's more obvious. 251 00:17:56.123 --> 00:17:59.802 We understand that we want to develop the fungi of the soil. 252 00:18:00.427 --> 00:18:02.209 If you apply fungicides on your crop, 253 00:18:02.724 --> 00:18:07.068 it is highly probable that part of this fungicide will be actually... 254 00:18:08.044 --> 00:18:24.525 apply to your soil or will end up to the soil and probably will harm the fungi of the soil that you are trying to develop or the insect of the soil that you're trying to to feed and to develop so this third principle of regenerative agriculture is again 255 00:18:25.041 --> 00:18:37.416 not in a dogmatic way but trying as much as possible to decrease those molecules on the fertilizer this is also the idea so this is the other point 256 00:18:37.536 --> 00:18:41.401 part of this group of when we talk about agrochemicals. 257 00:18:42.682 --> 00:18:46.827 And we also understand that if you feed a plant with fertilizer, 258 00:18:46.842 --> 00:18:50.405 it's like feeding someone with a 259 00:18:51.788 --> 00:18:53.905 McDonald's or a fast food. 260 00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:59.702 It's very efficient making people or plant growing fast, 261 00:19:00.202 --> 00:19:01.436 but it comes with a lot of. 262 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:19.092 potential problem which we know in with the fast food and on human you're going to grow fast and you're going to be fat fast but you you better have to be properly equipped with medicines to uh to be resistant or at least to to assist you to not be 263 00:19:19.342 --> 00:19:31.342 sick for the plant this is we see uh the crop we see the same so a plant a crop a field that will be fully depending on nitrogen and well-fed with mineral nitrogen. 264 00:19:32.032 --> 00:19:39.233 is a crop that will probably be more susceptible in terms of fungi, 265 00:19:39.393 --> 00:19:40.030 insects and so on. 266 00:19:40.155 --> 00:19:41.616 It's a vicious circle. 267 00:19:41.617 --> 00:19:44.358 The more chemical fertilizer you use, 268 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:47.936 the more likely it is that this crop is going to be susceptible. 269 00:19:47.968 --> 00:19:48.249 Weaker. 270 00:19:48.889 --> 00:19:49.608 It's going to be weaker, 271 00:19:49.702 --> 00:19:50.499 his defenses, 272 00:19:50.561 --> 00:19:56.843 and he's going to be more susceptible to have issues with fungi and pests. 273 00:19:57.061 --> 00:19:57.218 Yeah. 274 00:19:57.219 --> 00:19:58.780 So on this one, 275 00:19:59.311 --> 00:19:59.843 practically, 276 00:20:00.088 --> 00:20:04.712 What we do with our different project companies, 277 00:20:05.454 --> 00:20:10.239 we're trying to be very pragmatic with the farmers because saying that we have to stop tomorrow, 278 00:20:10.458 --> 00:20:11.020 it's very, 279 00:20:11.403 --> 00:20:11.622 again, 280 00:20:11.676 --> 00:20:12.700 dogmatic and drastic. 281 00:20:13.622 --> 00:20:18.934 There is a lot of way to reduce significantly the amount of pesticides. 282 00:20:20.841 --> 00:20:22.075 And the first way to do that, 283 00:20:22.184 --> 00:20:25.372 it's just to see how we can optimize the spraying. 284 00:20:25.497 --> 00:20:28.653 And it can be a bit shocking to... 285 00:20:29.264 --> 00:20:34.248 to talk about how to optimize your pesticide usage or application. 286 00:20:34.850 --> 00:20:36.971 When we come with the hat of RegenAg, 287 00:20:37.936 --> 00:20:53.920 I was surprised and I'm still surprised to see how many farmers sometimes are not understanding properly how they could reduce the quantity of pesticides just based on the quality of the water they're using in the sprayer. 288 00:20:55.525 --> 00:20:59.790 the weather conditions when the products are used, 289 00:21:00.790 --> 00:21:04.013 the way they are being advised to use these products, 290 00:21:04.653 --> 00:21:07.177 not by the seller of this product, 291 00:21:07.216 --> 00:21:08.919 by an independent advisor. 292 00:21:09.357 --> 00:21:10.341 So all these things... 293 00:21:11.740 --> 00:21:13.542 We're trying to work with the farmers to say, 294 00:21:13.543 --> 00:21:14.283 okay, 295 00:21:14.584 --> 00:21:18.728 how can we leverage your different possibility to reduce your pesticides? 296 00:21:19.830 --> 00:21:19.971 Yeah, 297 00:21:20.291 --> 00:21:21.713 maybe it sounds shocking to some, 298 00:21:22.072 --> 00:21:22.728 but I don't think so. 299 00:21:23.088 --> 00:21:23.892 I think it makes sense. 300 00:21:23.971 --> 00:21:27.971 The idea here is to try and reduce the harm you're doing to your oil, 301 00:21:28.002 --> 00:21:29.971 to your ecosystem more and more, 302 00:21:30.174 --> 00:21:36.080 and over time regenerate that ecosystem so that it relies less and less on those products, 303 00:21:36.705 --> 00:21:38.986 whether it's the tillage and disturbance of the soil, 304 00:21:39.049 --> 00:21:40.221 whether it's with chemicals, 305 00:21:40.283 --> 00:21:40.846 whether it's with, 306 00:21:40.892 --> 00:21:41.064 with, 307 00:21:41.216 --> 00:21:42.437 other things like that. 308 00:21:42.757 --> 00:21:42.878 Yeah. 309 00:21:43.337 --> 00:21:47.482 I'm trying not to be dogmatic and extremist because this is, 310 00:21:47.884 --> 00:21:59.447 this is working for a very small amount of farmers who are super convinced and motivated to take a high risk to go for a pure regenerative agriculture, 311 00:22:01.212 --> 00:22:02.415 ticking all the boxes, 312 00:22:02.540 --> 00:22:03.275 100%, 313 00:22:03.478 --> 00:22:05.837 but this is only as very small numbers of farmers in, 314 00:22:05.978 --> 00:22:06.103 in, 315 00:22:06.244 --> 00:22:07.540 in a small number of conditions. 316 00:22:08.087 --> 00:22:09.228 What interests me is, 317 00:22:10.032 --> 00:22:12.893 how to get a bigger number of farmers, 318 00:22:13.012 --> 00:22:14.094 conventional farmers, 319 00:22:14.754 --> 00:22:19.055 how to translate those principles into something that is affordable for them. 320 00:22:20.274 --> 00:22:21.438 And what we've discovered, 321 00:22:21.571 --> 00:22:27.930 what we've experienced for these last years is that actually when you give the possibility to a farmer, 322 00:22:28.211 --> 00:22:31.915 some tools or some recommendation to make the first steps, 323 00:22:32.243 --> 00:22:34.805 as we do with soil capital and the carbon certification, 324 00:22:35.758 --> 00:22:37.618 as we do with Cultivate with this. 325 00:22:38.396 --> 00:22:55.330 market for the farmers who are implementing region act practices the farmer at least will have a first taste of what it is to have a soil that is going in a better direction and then if you if you succeed there the 326 00:22:55.392 --> 00:23:06.017 pump is primed and things will happen much more positively constructively and naturally after this problem i think it makes a lot of sense 327 00:23:07.016 --> 00:23:08.177 Us human beings, 328 00:23:09.177 --> 00:23:10.160 we hate change, 329 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:10.439 right? 330 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:11.080 We're really bad. 331 00:23:11.099 --> 00:23:11.623 We change. 332 00:23:12.181 --> 00:23:13.302 Changing what we eat, 333 00:23:14.162 --> 00:23:15.021 what we believe in, 334 00:23:15.365 --> 00:23:16.849 the things we do or habits, 335 00:23:16.927 --> 00:23:20.271 like changing anything for human beings is really hard. 336 00:23:20.912 --> 00:23:21.193 And so 337 00:23:21.849 --> 00:23:23.005 I can only imagine, 338 00:23:23.052 --> 00:23:23.958 because I'm not a farmer, 339 00:23:24.568 --> 00:23:24.693 but 340 00:23:25.037 --> 00:23:29.130 I can only imagine for a farmer who's been doing things a certain way their whole lives, 341 00:23:29.193 --> 00:23:31.974 because this is what society has asked them to do. 342 00:23:32.599 --> 00:23:34.115 This is what's been advised by there. 343 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:36.462 agronomists and advisors and so on. 344 00:23:37.003 --> 00:23:39.643 This is what their parents and grandparents were doing before them. 345 00:23:40.143 --> 00:23:41.026 And then all of a sudden, 346 00:23:41.788 --> 00:23:42.948 you come to them and tell them, 347 00:23:44.011 --> 00:23:45.854 everything you've been doing your whole life is wrong, 348 00:23:45.932 --> 00:23:48.050 and you should completely change your whole system. 349 00:23:49.956 --> 00:23:52.214 It's probably not the best way to go, 350 00:23:52.995 --> 00:23:54.245 and for very good reasons. 351 00:23:54.698 --> 00:23:55.323 And therefore, 352 00:23:55.542 --> 00:23:58.417 if you approach things from the angle of, 353 00:23:58.964 --> 00:23:59.089 well, 354 00:23:59.198 --> 00:24:00.964 here's a small change you can make, 355 00:24:01.042 --> 00:24:03.823 and here is an attractive reward for making that change. 356 00:24:04.073 --> 00:24:04.182 Yep. 357 00:24:04.584 --> 00:24:07.964 that's a much more attractive proposition, 358 00:24:07.986 --> 00:24:08.304 I think. 359 00:24:08.445 --> 00:24:09.984 And if things work out, 360 00:24:10.085 --> 00:24:13.187 and if that change turns out to be positive for the farmer, 361 00:24:14.265 --> 00:24:17.788 then they might be inclined to do more and to go further in that direction. 362 00:24:17.827 --> 00:24:20.007 And so that's why I think this is a really, 363 00:24:20.070 --> 00:24:21.710 really interesting way to approach things. 364 00:24:22.023 --> 00:24:22.148 Yeah, 365 00:24:22.351 --> 00:24:23.523 it's an incremental thing. 366 00:24:24.601 --> 00:24:25.710 It's not something that you can... 367 00:24:26.148 --> 00:24:29.945 If you want to switch from convention to region ag, 368 00:24:31.163 --> 00:24:32.476 you're going to take a huge risk. 369 00:24:32.585 --> 00:24:33.054 Batifio 370 00:24:33.872 --> 00:24:34.492 Draw a line and say, 371 00:24:34.493 --> 00:24:34.712 okay, 372 00:24:34.713 --> 00:24:37.532 I'm going to go step by step in the next five, 373 00:24:37.794 --> 00:24:38.294 seven years. 374 00:24:39.415 --> 00:24:45.274 It's much more natural and you're going to make this transition with much less risk. 375 00:24:46.673 --> 00:24:47.595 And the last principle, 376 00:24:47.634 --> 00:24:50.353 because we were still on the principle of region ag, 377 00:24:51.009 --> 00:24:56.681 is what we call the diversification or the context-specific design. 378 00:24:56.884 --> 00:24:59.993 we understand that introducing diverse 379 00:25:00.020 --> 00:25:04.199 Diversity in your system is bringing resilience, 380 00:25:04.723 --> 00:25:06.902 not only for your finance, 381 00:25:06.961 --> 00:25:10.141 but also for your soil health. 382 00:25:10.281 --> 00:25:14.359 And so it increases the duration and the number of crops you produce. 383 00:25:15.320 --> 00:25:19.391 Introducing a perennial crop once every 10 years, 384 00:25:19.625 --> 00:25:20.297 15 years, 385 00:25:20.938 --> 00:25:21.422 trying to... 386 00:25:22.344 --> 00:25:22.562 Sorry, 387 00:25:22.578 --> 00:25:23.344 what do you mean by that, 388 00:25:23.406 --> 00:25:24.641 introducing a perennial crop? 389 00:25:24.859 --> 00:25:25.062 Sorry, 390 00:25:25.219 --> 00:25:25.344 yeah, 391 00:25:25.641 --> 00:25:26.812 this is what I was referring to, 392 00:25:27.328 --> 00:25:27.953 the grassland, 393 00:25:27.954 --> 00:25:28.484 the pasture. 394 00:25:29.169 --> 00:25:45.077 so introducing a crop that would stay more than one year and not that is not an annual crop actually i don't think we call that the perennial crop a semi-perennial crop something that will stay or sometime a perennial crop when you talk about trees for example which 395 00:25:45.078 --> 00:25:51.467 is a bit more extreme agroforestry is a way to diversify it's still very um unknown 396 00:25:52.088 --> 00:25:52.568 and risky, 397 00:25:53.328 --> 00:26:00.474 but introducing grassland for one or two or three years into your rotation every 10, 398 00:26:00.591 --> 00:26:00.731 10, 399 00:26:00.786 --> 00:26:01.333 15 years, 400 00:26:01.888 --> 00:26:03.450 this is not something that is very risky, 401 00:26:03.528 --> 00:26:06.989 very well understood and easy to do. 402 00:26:07.474 --> 00:26:13.177 There is maybe the financial part that you have to manage because you're going to lose some productivity, 403 00:26:13.271 --> 00:26:13.739 some profit. 404 00:26:14.974 --> 00:26:16.130 The introduction of animals, 405 00:26:16.489 --> 00:26:19.708 this is also something that many of your previous 406 00:26:21.255 --> 00:26:23.116 speakers have mentioned. 407 00:26:23.138 --> 00:26:25.120 So in many geographies, 408 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:29.722 you have some herbivores that you could bring to the land. 409 00:26:30.464 --> 00:26:30.745 Again, 410 00:26:30.948 --> 00:26:32.089 once every five, 411 00:26:32.167 --> 00:26:39.698 ten years to have something grazed on your land is definitely something that is bringing value. 412 00:26:39.792 --> 00:26:40.808 So all of this... 413 00:26:41.568 --> 00:26:50.004 we put that i put that in the box of diversity which is the the last principle of today yeah 414 00:26:58.348 --> 00:27:00.389 Thank you so much for listening to this episode. 415 00:27:00.629 --> 00:27:04.530 I truly hope you enjoyed it and that you learned something valuable from it. 416 00:27:05.248 --> 00:27:09.034 If you're enjoying the Deep Seed and you would like to support me in my work, 417 00:27:09.252 --> 00:27:19.299 you can do that in just five seconds by simply clicking on the Deep Seed page and then clicking on the follow or subscribe button right here on your favorite streaming platform. 418 00:27:19.940 --> 00:27:20.737 It actually makes... 419 00:27:20.916 --> 00:27:26.380 a huge difference and it helps me reach more and more people with these important conversations. 420 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:28.021 So thank you so much in advance. 421 00:27:28.404 --> 00:27:30.123 I wish you a wonderful day, 422 00:27:30.263 --> 00:27:32.224 a beautiful life and see you soon.